1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Canst play gun. I'm Buzznight, the host of the Taken 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: a Walk podcast series, and we're here in the delightful 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: suburbs of Chicago, Illinois, a very special place called burr 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: Ridge to meet up with a very special dude. He 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: continues to be a major influence to me and others 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: with his critical thinking and his media leadership. Lee Abrams 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: has a resume that would extend for miles along Chicago's 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: River Walk. His influence spans of plus companies like AXM Radio, Tribune, 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: ABC Radio, just to name a few. Lee tells it 10 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: like it is and I can't wait to take a 11 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: walk with Lee Abrams Taking a walk with Buzsnight. Well, thanks, Lee, 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that you took the time to take 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: a walk with us here and lovely burr Ridge. This 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: is a pretty cool area of the suburbs. Yeah, well 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: South actually West suburb of Chicago. So how long you 16 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: been out here? Eleven years? It's a nice getaway. Yeah, 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: it's really nice and there's a lot of land out 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: here and trees, so it's a nice escape from the city. 19 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: Well that's cool. Well, so I was just thinking as 20 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: we were talking about taking a walk we were conjuring up. 21 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: Maybe there's some other little vertical angles of it that 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: I should be pondering, Like taking a nap. What do 23 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: you think of that? Yeah, great idea, taking a nap, 24 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: having a snack. There's a whole series of offshoots here. 25 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: There's a whole array of them. Well, let's talk about 26 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: the state of media here, because that's something that you've 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: always been keenly in touch with. Where do you see 28 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: the state of media today? Well, generally speaking, I think 29 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: there's a you know, it's very corporate, and you know 30 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily bad, but it does come at the 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: expense of extreme creative I think particularly in radio and 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: television news, which are of course two areas I'm really 33 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: interested in. There's just a tendency to be working off 34 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: a playbook that's thirty and forty years old at a 35 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: time when we're going through massive cultural, social, and technological change, 36 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: and as a result, it's not really in sync with 37 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: the current day mainstream and you know, daya doesn't go 38 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: by when people don't say radio sucks or yeah, I 39 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: can't watch the news anymore. And these are areas you know, 40 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: I'm sort of focused on, but I think it's gotten 41 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 1: very consolidated at the expense of creative and just new, 42 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: bold ideas that reflect the air we're in. It's you know, 43 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: it reminds me a lot. I'm old enough of the 44 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: late sixties, early seventies when back then he had Vietnam 45 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: in the sexual revolution and drug revolution and Nixon and 46 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: just craziness. I'm sure glad the Internet wasn't around then. 47 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: But seeing the same kind of thing today just different. 48 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: It's wars in the Ukraine, and you know, racial inequality, 49 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: Trump versus the left, and you know, it's a crazy 50 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: time and I don't think a lot of media really 51 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: reflects the electricity that's happening now. Why corporate executives of 52 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: today in media afraid to change, Well, I think a 53 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: lot of them are. You know, some of the older 54 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: ones are just riding it out, and a lot of 55 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: them just make a lot of money and don't want 56 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: to blow it. And in the culture too, it's very uh, 57 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's not conducive to change. Obviously, when some 58 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: companies start out, whether it's Amazon or Netflix, they sure 59 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: they're all about change, but the more traditional companies kind 60 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: of stuck in their ways. And again the topics that 61 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: is making a lot of money and don't see the 62 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: urgency and change and don't want to don't want to 63 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,559 Speaker 1: risk it. I think it's a bottom line. How much 64 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: of it do you think has to do with the 65 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: problem in certainly both radio and in television, that there's 66 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: a measurement system that these businesses quote unquote have to 67 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: play to. Yeah, I think you know, a great product 68 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: will win regardless of the measurement system. I think it's flawed, 69 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: but you know, it's always been sort of flawed. I 70 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: think the great products will will prevail regardless of how 71 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: they're measured. But the fact that measurement is coming from 72 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: a monopoly, do you feel that that is a issue. 73 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: I really do. Personally, don't worry about it. Again. I'm 74 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: more concerned about creating really new, powerful products that are 75 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: in sync with the age we're in, and I think 76 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: regardless of who's doing the measurement, it'll all come out 77 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: in the wash if it's really connecting with the mainstream. 78 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: So let's touch on radio first. Radio's position here is 79 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: greatly challenged, especially music formats, right because you can get 80 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: music anywhere. So what's your opinion on the face of 81 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: radio as we know it today. Well, I think again, 82 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: on the older end, it seems to be doing okay. 83 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: People who grew up with the radio and have wonderful 84 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: experiences with it over the years, younger and it's a 85 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 1: real problem. I remember when we first started at XM, 86 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: we asked a lot of older people, you know, forty 87 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: over what they thought of the concept, and they were like, 88 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: this is great. I mean, we'll have a jazz station, 89 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: We'll have this no commercial love it. Talk to young 90 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: people and they said, why would I pay for radio? 91 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: Radio sucks and digging deeper, they've never experienced the great 92 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,559 Speaker 1: radio stations. Somebody who was when we launched two thousand 93 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: and one, somebody who was eighteen never you know, grew 94 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: up with those stations at people like you and I did, 95 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: so there was no reference to what radio could be. So, 96 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: you know, I think the problem right now is it's 97 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: people aren't taking advantage of the radio experience. Streaming is great. 98 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: I mean I had all the streaming services and listened 99 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: to them. But the radio experience done right, where there's 100 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: magic between the songs, there's intelligent hosts that sort of 101 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: walk you through the journey, and there's intriguing music mixes 102 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: and you know, the list goes on that's really powerful, 103 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: but you don't hear it anymore. At XEM again, using 104 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: them as an example, we played a lot of tapes 105 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: and went through the blueprints of really the great stations 106 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: that was KLIF in the middle fifties, Cage J in 107 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the mid sixties, and KCBQ in the early seventies, et cetera, 108 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: and really broke down what made those stations great and 109 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: they had they were a three hundred and sixty degree experience, 110 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: everything from the way they looked, to their attitude and 111 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: swagger on the air, to their adventure in music, to 112 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: owning the music. The perception that their playlist was the 113 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: bible of music, and no stations do that anymore. And 114 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: I think that those characteristics can be reinterpreted for the 115 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: twenty first century. And again, you can't copy what Cage 116 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: J did news fifty or sixty years ago, but you 117 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: can take those blueprints and really reimagine them for the 118 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: realities of the twenty first century. I think that's important. 119 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: There are gonna be some people who they're gonna stream, 120 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: but they're not everybody. I think radio can be a 121 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: better slice of the bigger slice of the pie for 122 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Because again there's a lot of 123 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: radio sucks, meaning FM radio, and that can be limited. 124 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: But I don't think stations are trying, you know, at 125 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: the time when radio FM radio should be in creative, 126 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: uncreative steroids, they're kind of in denial. And you know, 127 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: again utilizing a playbook that was written decades ago. There 128 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: hasn't been a new format, a really new format in 129 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: radio in years, really, since the early seventies. There have 130 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: been just tweaks, you know yet, you know, certain offshoots 131 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: of classic rock and all that, but something really new, 132 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: you know, it hasn't been done at a time when 133 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: it has to be done. And again I think a 134 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: lot of it's the corporate environments not conducive to change. 135 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: And I understand, if somebody's number one and making a 136 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: lot of money, great, you know, why change it. But 137 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: there are a lot of stations that aren't making a 138 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: lot of money. Those are the ones that I think 139 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: need to generate whole new ideas, new exciting visions. One 140 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: of those things I love that you did at XAM 141 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: was how you flipped upside down the notion of the 142 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: celebrity guest DJ, and you turn these shows, whether it 143 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: be the Bob Dylan Team, Time Radio Hour or what 144 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: you did with Tom Petty's show. And I'm sure there 145 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: are others you flipped that model and elevated it to 146 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: this degree that is incredible to this day. Yeah, I 147 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: mean those are good examples. Dylan in particular, I mean 148 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: just you know, in talking to him, he was he 149 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: grew up listening to radio under the covers, to those 150 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: big fifty thousand watt stations around the country when he was, 151 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: you know, growing up in Minnesota and really saw the 152 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: romance in radio. And you know, we gave just really 153 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: complete creative freedom to recreate that romance on his terms 154 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: and it was magical and not all artists are capable 155 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: of that. Tom Petty did a great job too. Without 156 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: mentioning the names, there were some people that didn't do 157 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: real good jobs, but the ones that really got into 158 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: it and had their own vision of what a radio 159 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: show could sound like were remarkable. But you gave them 160 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: some creative license, oh complete. You know, he gave him guidance. 161 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: But you know, as far as the songs they played 162 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: and what they said, that was all up to them 163 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: was really important because again I believe you could format 164 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,359 Speaker 1: a Bob Dylan. Somebody actually said addicts not on the airstaff, 165 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: but you know what's what's their clock look like a clock? 166 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan. It's whatever he wants to do. He was 167 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: the first out laughing right. Yeah. And there are some 168 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: people who said, well, he hasn't had a hit in 169 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: fifty years. It's like, no, you don't understand. He's you know, 170 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: the greatest, you know, musical poet of the twentieth century. 171 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: And so we respected him and his wishes and just 172 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: made it real easy for him and gave some guidance. 173 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: At first, they proposed to when we were talking, you know, 174 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan channel, and we sort of wait, does Bob 175 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: really have time to program a channel twenty four to seven, 176 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty five, Maybe an hour or two 177 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: would be more manageable, and they kind of got that. 178 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Well to this day, it lives strong. Yeah, Like I said, 179 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: Tom as well the show, But I just I love 180 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: that creativity that was brought to you know, a fairly 181 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, hit or miss scenario with celebrities. We know 182 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: they could sometimes a rocker would be terrific and the 183 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: other times, depending on the moment, it would be like, eh, yeah, 184 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: I know. When I was at X Rock, we had 185 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: actually Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, and Ted Nugent each doing 186 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: a two week trial and that was interesting. Ted was 187 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: particularly interesting. You get off the air and he'd have 188 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: all these policemen at the in the lobby wanting to 189 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: take him out and ride. You know, Hey, Ted, come 190 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: with Richardson Texas Police. We're gonna bust some you know, 191 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: crack houses. No, no, don't go with him. Come with 192 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: us at Fort Worth, guys, we deal with the heavy 193 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: start and it was unbelievable, and his show was just 194 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: a little too gun oriented. Alice Cooper was great, he 195 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: had great stories, but you know, I think listeners wanted 196 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: him to be more of the you know, the the 197 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: on stage Alice and he was just a real nice guy. 198 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: And Ozzy Osbourne that didn't last, Like it's just you know, 199 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: he was Ozzie. That didn't work. So the state of 200 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: TV and specifically the state of TV news, what are 201 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: you seeing and then where's your vision for it? Yeah? 202 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: TV news, I think information is the new rock and roll, 203 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: meaning what's really driving culture today? Are As information and 204 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: people you know, have all of it on their phones 205 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: versus a walkman. And I think rock and roll, you know, 206 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: is popular, but looks backwards. It's all about the classic 207 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: bands and all that, and the newer music. I think 208 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: it's more country and hip and super teen pop and 209 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: all that. But that rock and roll attitude is something 210 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: that's timeless. It's a certain spirit. So I think, just 211 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: like radio worse, TV news is stuck in nineteen seventy. 212 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: You still see two chit chatting anchors with a fake 213 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: city skyline behind them. You still hear percussive music. You know, 214 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: if you close your eyes listen to newscasts ten just 215 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: bullshit slogans, we believe in you, you know, first action news. 216 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: It's just it's comical, and you know, Simpsons make fun 217 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: of it, Onion makes fun of it, and it's just stuck. 218 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: So we're creating something called news Movie, which is really 219 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: the first news programming ever created by programmers and creatives. 220 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: Obviously the places will be just full of journalists, but 221 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: the actual architecture of it is designed by programming people 222 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: and creative people who don't subscribe to the TV news playbook. 223 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: When I was a Tribune. You know, there were TV 224 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: stations that had news departments, and god, it was impossible. 225 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: They were just stuck in the news playbook, couldn't change. 226 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: And when they did change, I remember going to one 227 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: station and they said, you know, we've really changed. We're 228 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: going to have a tremendous book. We're really modernized everything. Wow, 229 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: that's great. What'd you do well? Our sports guy now 230 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: stands up when he gives the scores, and we have 231 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: a new backdrop which shows, you know, a new view 232 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: of the city and the weather desk. We have a 233 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: new kind of formica that really is Is that it? Yeah? Meanwhile, 234 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: nobody noticed and ratings came out and they were still 235 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: in the toilet. So I'm looking at a complete, radical, 236 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: dramatic reinvention of television news. And there's three characteristics to 237 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: it that really define it. One is I where it's 238 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: visually stunning. There's no reporter standing in front of a 239 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: seven to eleven that was burned down eight hours ago 240 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: or robbed whatever. There's no chit chatting anchors, no screaming 241 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: pundits yelling at each other, but just beautiful photography and 242 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: video using multidimensional sources, licensed sources, from the aps and 243 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: the writers just raw footage, no reporters, no graphics or anything. 244 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: Raw footage. We might use cartoon clips, might use retro footage, 245 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: whatever it takes to tell the story like a movie. 246 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: It's not a newscast. It's a news movie, a movie 247 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: of the world at the moment that's visually striking and 248 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: devoid of all the cliches, you know, the sets that 249 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: look like Nora at It just nonsense. And then ear 250 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: that's where every story is elevated because it has a soundtrack. 251 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: So fits a story about inner city strife might have 252 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: Coltrane kind of music. Fits a story about, oh, tornadoes 253 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: in Texas might have Willie Nelson sort of music. So 254 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: it really elevates a storytelling from this the Bayanyal TV 255 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: news sound which again very pompous and and percussive, none 256 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: of that. And thirdly, and probably the most important thing 257 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: is brain where if you picture an intellectual scale in television, 258 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: if one is you know, honey Boo boo, some goofy 259 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: reality show and tens masterpiece theater most resides in the 260 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: three range kind of dumb. And again people make a 261 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: lot of money there and that's fine. News movie will 262 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: be more like a seven never elite. But it's not dumb. 263 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: We call it high IQ low BS, meaning it's just 264 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: smarter and it's totally free of BS and so it's intelligent. 265 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: And you put those three things together, visually, stunning, sonically deep, 266 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: and just intelligent, and that's sort of the foundation of 267 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And also very honest. Instead of avoiding 268 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: the tough topics, we'll approach both of them aggressively. If 269 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: it's gun control, we might have Ted NuGen talking for 270 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: sixty seconds and then I don't know, Barbara Streisan talking 271 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: for sixty seconds. Literally you decide, but we're not going 272 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: to take the vanilla road and avoid those topics. And 273 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, if Trump screws up or one of his types, 274 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: fine we'll call it out. But same thing with Biden 275 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: they screw up. Nobody's immune. So it's very, very honest 276 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: and real without to any political skew, and it's just exciting. 277 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: They won't have an energy to it. It won't work 278 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: at the pace of news, which is da da da 279 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: and da da da, none of that. It's going to 280 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: talk like real people and just again't have a modern 281 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: energy to it. I'm real excited about it. It's it 282 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: scares a lot of people, but you know, we just 283 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: got to keep at it and keep pounding and talking 284 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: to possible partners because it's not cheap. But we're getting there. 285 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: We're getting more and more interest all the time, and 286 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: it's going to ride this out till till we get 287 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: it done. It feels like the time is right for it. 288 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: Oh god, I mean really does well. An analogy I 289 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: use is in nineteen seventy, AM radio was the giant 290 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: in music, but it was becoming, you know, out of 291 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: sync with the mainstream at that time. FM came along 292 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: within five years, you know, just buried AM musically, and 293 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: now we see television news where AM was in nineteen seventy. 294 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: It's there, there's a big circulation, but it's just so 295 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: hot to touch. So we want to be the two 296 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: news what FM wants to AM. Well, the look of 297 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: it from the demo I've seen is spectacular. It's got 298 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: that energy and that pacing, although in the right way, 299 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: with the right spirit, the right authenticity. There's no stopwatch 300 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: on everything now. It depends on how long the story 301 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: needs to be, so it doesn't have that news pacing 302 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: where you know, an interstrating story. Well, we've got to 303 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: wrap it up now. You know, it go aslong as 304 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: it goes longer. Yeah, and it'll probably average a minute 305 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: and a half to two minutes of story, some much shorter, 306 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: some might be longer. But again, it's a movie of 307 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: the world at the moments and breaks every rule in 308 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: the book. And it's where extreme creative meets extreme journalism 309 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: and the thing is extreme but today's standards. So you're 310 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: optimistic about the you know, partners and future. It's tough 311 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: because we've been at it a while, but we'll get there. 312 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: There's more and more interest all the time, and more 313 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: and more evidence of the need for this. And there 314 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: are without naming companies, there are some companies who look 315 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: at it, broadcast companies who say, well, we've got our 316 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: traditional news and it's skewing old and maybe we could 317 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: use this to skew young and own it all, sort 318 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: of like the old AM and FM thing where the 319 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: AM was the big middle of the road station reaching 320 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: forty plus and then the FM was that young hotshot 321 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: reaching you know, eighteen to thirty four, eighteen to forty 322 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: and it's that's that definitely makes makes an impact and 323 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: gets people thinking, yeah, maybe we can own the whole 324 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: thing rather than hoping our audience doesn't die. Well, good luck. 325 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: I know it's going to happen. Yeah, I know it's 326 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: going to happen. So tell me about the documentary you're 327 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: working on. Yeah, it's called Sonic Messengers. It is the 328 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: it's the history of sort of pop culture from World 329 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: War two to today, told through the filter of radio 330 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: and music. And it goes from the early R and 331 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: B artists and those early R and B stations, through 332 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: the top forty and sixties and Beatlemania FM underground in 333 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: the late sixties and AOAR and disco and everything else, 334 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: all the way up to streaming and satellites. But it's 335 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: not going to be really for radio people only. As 336 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, the host, one of the hosts 337 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: we've signed is John Clees. It's great. Yeah, So you know, 338 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: one of his angles is, well, you know, maybe if 339 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: he does this is you know, real dry English take, 340 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: as in, what's with these Americans in infatuation with radio 341 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: and music and you know, listening in their car? What 342 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: is it with these Americans? And I think that'll be 343 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: an interesting angle. And we were sort of set back 344 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: by COVID, but we're again. We've got John on Cleves 345 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: on board and we're sort of full guns ahead. And 346 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm working with a guy named Spencer Prawfer. He may 347 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: know who is Chasing Train, right? He wasn't he part 348 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: of that documentary? Yes, he did that one. Yeah, a 349 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: terrific documentary. Yeah. He's great and has tremendous experience in 350 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: negotiating these deals and the actual nuts and bolts of 351 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: the production. And he's my partner in that fifty to 352 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: fifty and we're charging ahead. That's great, probably out hopefully 353 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: towards the end of next year. I guess. Will there 354 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: be other hosts besides John, Yes, there will, and we 355 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: haven't decided who yet. I mean, we've reached out to 356 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: some people who like Springsteen who know we don't have time. 357 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: But we'll get some the proper hosts in there, probably 358 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: somebody a bit younger and a bit more current. But John, 359 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: he's timeless. But we'll probably have an rfenter too. That's perfect. 360 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: And you had a residency project with Alan Parsons that Yes, 361 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: we're working on that and that's going great. That'll debut 362 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: next year and it's a it is a immersive experience 363 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: similar to the Van Go experience, except musically focused and 364 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: much trippier. It's going to be really trippy and very 365 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: heady and cerebral, and it's again music oriented and working 366 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: with Alan Parsons, a guy named Danny's Olisco is a 367 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: big concert promoter and dean egnator who's a works with 368 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: the Frankie Valley and it's a great team because those 369 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: guys particularly have the the venue experience and ticketing and 370 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: cost controls and all that, as well as being very 371 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: creative and Alan, you know, it's just a musical god 372 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: and with his sound, it'll be a real, you know, 373 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: audio visual tour de force. Will it be Vegas first? No, 374 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: we're originally going to do Vegas, but now we decided 375 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: to do it will probably be Los Angeles first, but 376 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: because it's an installation, we can have fifty of them 377 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: all around the country. And it was originally a live 378 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: show that's got too complicated and Vegas became too crowded. 379 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: We couldn't find the right venue With COVID, all the 380 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: acts were backed up, you know, the Barry Manilows and 381 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: all these characters were had put a whole year on hold, 382 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: so now they're filled it in, so finding a place 383 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: was hard. Yeah, we decided let's do multiple venues. Particularly 384 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: after seeing the success of Van Go, we think this 385 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: can have the same kind of kind of thing going. 386 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, so next you're feeling next year? Yeah, 387 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: I think next hopefully next spring, maybe summer, but next 388 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: year sometime. How do you stay so certain with projects 389 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: that they're gonna hit the finish line? Well, I think 390 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: the secret I think really thinking them through and in 391 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: a lot of cases finding the right people to work 392 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: on it with and just staying really focused and committed 393 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: to it and not giving up and just keeping at it, 394 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: just being just head down. Yeah. It was the same 395 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: thing with really going way back aor because I was 396 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: eighteen at the time, and you know, it was hard 397 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: to get people to take you seriously with this new format, 398 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: but really just hung in there and the brakes came 399 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: and UH were able to prove it and then you know, 400 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: the floodgates opened. So I expect that all happened with 401 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: these projects too. You know, some challenges, but once it 402 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: catches on it it's all over. First concert you ever 403 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: went to, The first concert I ever went to was uh, 404 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: Cream no cream, yeah, cream and open The act was 405 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: Frank Zappa and the Mothers in nineteen sixty seven. Where 406 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: was that? It was that Chicago? What was it called. 407 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: It's not there anywhere. I think it was called the Auditorium, 408 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: not the Auditorium anyways, on the south side of Chicago. 409 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: And uh, it was relatively small, kind of hole in 410 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: the wall and that was great. And uh yeah, and 411 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: I saw Cream a lot in the who a lot 412 00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: back then and uh and then Candy Heat and some 413 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: other crazy bands. Who do you put concert experience wise 414 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: for you, like at the Pinnacle? For me, it's yes 415 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventy three to nineteen seventy five era 416 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: when they were just really at their peak. Again. I 417 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: love that kind of music, but they performed so well 418 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: with such such brilliant arrangements and playing and crystal clear 419 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: sound and it was magical. And there's one particular gig 420 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: which got one hundred and ten thousand people at JFK 421 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: Stadium in Philly. I think it was about seventy five 422 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: or seventy six. And let's see, it was Peter Frampton 423 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: opened Gary Wright, the Poussette Dart Band, and then Yes, 424 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: at the end that was and they played, you know, 425 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: and there was a full moon and it was night 426 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: and there were you know, again one hundred and ten 427 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: thousand people and they just echoed through the JFK Stadium 428 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: outdoor and it was like, wow, it was life changing. 429 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: You know, thinking about a lot of those concert bills, 430 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: how Bill Graham used to book concerts with the very 431 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: eclectic mix of artists, I don't think you could do 432 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: that today where promoters couldn't take that risk, do you agree, 433 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I don't think so. I 434 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: mean there's the big festivals, you know, the Coachella is 435 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: and all that, which do that. You're right, yeah, yeah, 436 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: and yeah, so they're the huge festivals and then the 437 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: small ones one artist, maybe two. You don't see that 438 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: middle ground where there's six six artists like you did 439 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: with Bill Brand and they were eclectic at times and 440 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah the White Show and yeah, it would be 441 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: like oh god, and the Big in England did a 442 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: lot of that too, and it would be like can Heat, Pink, 443 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: Floyd the who, I don't know, a couple other sort 444 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: of acts that were breaking and it would be kind 445 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: of cool. Yeah, it was a night of it true experience. Yeah, 446 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: it would be like five bucks, think of that. Yeah. 447 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: So in closing, I want to get your reaction to 448 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: what you've learned from musicians over the years and how 449 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: musicians and bands you know, whether it be yes or 450 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: other examples, What can media companies other types of companies 451 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: learn about the creative process from the way musicians have 452 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: created over the years. Yeah, I think that you know, 453 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: the great musicians have their roots firmly in a certain style, 454 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: but are able to take that and evolve it. And uh, 455 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, and yes, for example, it's again I'm close 456 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: to you had guys with classical backgrounds. You have guys 457 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,719 Speaker 1: with blues backgrounds. But they're able to take what they 458 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 1: learned learn as a foundation and just evolve. And that's 459 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: why I think media companies need to look at their 460 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: products like news and evolve. And it's that rock and 461 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: roll mentality again, which is striving to be innovative. It 462 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: was just part of their mission going way back. You know, 463 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: I remember bands in the late sixties. One band would 464 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: do eight track, well, the next one would have to 465 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: do sixteen track. One band would have so and so, amps, 466 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: next band had marshals, they had have. It was like 467 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: an arms race among equipment and technology, and I think 468 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: media needs that same kind of competitive striving for innovation 469 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: and just a natural ability to be mass appeal without 470 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: trying again using the yes roundabout the last thing they 471 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: thought would ever happened would be a hit single, but 472 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: it happened. And I think when people try to hard, 473 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: it gets kind of hokey. So these great bands just 474 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: did what they did to a real high standard and 475 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: let the public, you know, be exposed to it and 476 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: come to their own conclusions. You know, the rock and 477 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: roll thinking other than striving for innovation, the fact that 478 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: its mass appeal, but not by really trying, just by 479 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: creating something that is. And let's see, there's about twenty points. 480 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm stead of think some good ones. Motivation to be different, 481 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: not settling for what somebody else has already done. That's 482 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: that's important, really, like that's been done. We got to 483 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: do it this way. And so I think I'll send 484 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: you the rock and Roll Thinking sort of manifesto. There's 485 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: about twenty points in there that all could be applied 486 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: to media companies that really come from the artistic community. Yeah, 487 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: and the authenticity of voice, Oh, authenticity yeah. Again, you 488 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: can't fake it either got It's called the IP factor. 489 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: You got it or you don't. Yeah, and those who 490 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: fake it don't get caught. Well, I said last question, 491 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: but I have one more sure. Who inspires you today? Well, 492 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, I look at a lot of the uh, 493 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: the innovators, you know, Elon Musk, even though he's got 494 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: some political issues these days, but I mean, the guy's 495 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: done some pretty amazing things, and people you know at 496 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: Amazon and Apple and those kind of not necessarily the people. 497 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: The companies, you know, they're really create mass appeal intelligence, 498 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: meaning the products they create are very mass appeal, but 499 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: they're also intelligent. And somebody actually asked me, you give 500 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: me an example of that, and Apple's great, everybody's got 501 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: an Apple product. So it's mass appeal, but they're also 502 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: really smart the way they're designed and the way they performed, 503 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, even SpaceX and that whole program. 504 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: It's mass appeal everybody, listen, we're going to Mars. But 505 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: it's it's intelligent obviously. So I look for mass appeal 506 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: intelligence in people and in companies. Thanks for always giving 507 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: me inspiration to this day. So I appreciate you taking 508 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: a walk in lovely Chicago suburbs here all right, thank 509 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: you for the opportunity. Thanks great. Taking a Walk with 510 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 511 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.