1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Hello. 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: This is Mia from the Future. The whole crew is 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 2: off this week, so you'll be getting a series of 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: episodes from our past, and this episode in particular, I 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: wanted to rerun for Indigenous People's Day, but it is 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: also from before I came out, So hope you all 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: enjoy and we will be back next week. 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 3: Welcome to I Could Happen here, a podcast that is 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: on the cycle of being sort of okayly introduced. When 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 3: this episode goes out, it will be Indigenous People's Day, 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 3: and so to talk about that more where we're going 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 3: to talk to Dalia Killsback, who is a member of 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 3: the Northern Cheyenne or has a Northern Cheyenne tribal citizenship 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 3: and has studied and worked in Federal India tribal policy. Dahlia, Hello, 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 3: how are you doing? 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 4: I am doing well. Thank you for inviting me here today. 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: Of course Garrison is also here. Garrison Hello, Hello. 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 5: I'm currently also doing writing about indigenous stuff, but within 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 5: the context of Canada, which people should we'll probably hear 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 5: later this week. 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 3: So yeah, I guess first thing I wanted to talk 22 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 3: about is a little bit is about what Indigenous People's 23 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 3: Day is and why it is that and not the 24 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 3: other thing. 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 4: Yeah, so Indigenous People's Day, as many people know, is 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 4: replacing I'm gonna say it, Chris Christopher Columbus Day. That 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 4: is still like a federal holiday, but multiple cities and 28 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 4: states have opted to use Indigenous People's Day instead, And 29 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 4: the reasoning for that is acknowlogy the atrocities that were 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 4: committed by Christopher Columbus, who first of all, did not 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 4: discover America, but continue to not only use slavery but 32 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 4: commit different forms of genocide, rape, et cetera, all of 33 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 4: these terrible atrocities. And so rather than celebrating somebody like that, 34 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 4: Indigenous People's Day has been implemented in order to recognize 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 4: the people who were actually here first, and indigenous peoples 36 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 4: across the America's their histories, cultures, and contributions. 37 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, Columbus, real piece of shit, worst Christopher, Like, yeah, 38 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: it really cannot be overstated how bad that guy was, 39 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: even you know, even people in that era who had 40 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 3: committed their own genocides like Isabelle and Ferdinand, who you know, 41 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 3: expelled the Jews from Spain, where it's like, you know, 42 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: if once you've reached the sentence expelled the Jews from 43 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: X like you're you're already in the shit list of 44 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: the worst people in human history. And even they saw 45 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: what Columbus was doing, it was like what on Earth Earth, 46 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 3: bad bad guy, bad name. Things are going to continue 47 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 3: to go badly. And yeah, that was another thing that 48 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 3: I've wanted to talk about, which is federal Indian policy. 49 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 3: And you know, this is an incredibly broad it's an 50 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: incredibly broad area spanning like three hundred years, So we're 51 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: not gonna be able to go into like an enormous 52 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: amount of depth in it, but I think it's important 53 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: that people have an understanding of, I mean a just 54 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 3: what the US did and how everyone else has had 55 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: this sort of deal with it, and then also the 56 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: fact that this is something that changes over time and 57 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: has has looked different, It's looked it's been bad in 58 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: different ways. 59 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so in talking about federal Indian policy, I 60 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 4: always like to contextualize it within a larger sort of 61 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: like Euro American like teleology of colonial conquests and then 62 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 4: moving on to setwlare colonialism and where we are with 63 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: federal federal Indian policy currently. So how do we connect 64 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 4: Christopher Columbus to where we are currently, and this is 65 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 4: the history of federal Indian policy and Western legal discourse 66 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 4: and how European powers throughout history have defined what it 67 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 4: means to be an Indian person and relationship to Indigenous 68 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 4: people's rights to their own land and to self governance. 69 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 4: So when we're looking at the different periods of federal 70 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 4: Indian policy prior to their being a United States government, 71 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 4: we have the colonial period, which is fourteen ninety two 72 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 4: to seventeen seventy six. This is how federal Indian policy 73 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 4: legal scholars divide that, and it's really important to kind 74 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 4: of give the difference between what is a colonial state 75 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 4: versus a settler colonial state when you're talking about not 76 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 4: just the United States government, but also the Canadian government 77 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 4: and different governments globally. But I want to talk just 78 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 4: a little bit about what I mean by the difference 79 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 4: between a colonial government and a settler colonial government, because 80 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 4: they're tied together. So by a sutler colonial government, I 81 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 4: mean what I mean is that it is defined by 82 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 4: the de territorialization of indigenous population populations, and so rather 83 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 4: than in a colonial government as you had with Christopher 84 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 4: Columbus and the Spanish and with the English et cetera. 85 00:05:53,680 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 4: Is rather than a state, and sovereignty being conceived as 86 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 4: all these resources are going back to the metropol, all 87 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 4: these resources are going back to England or to Spain, 88 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 4: et cetera. And colonial occupation is in is conceptualized within 89 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 4: this way. In Setlic colonial governments, the colonists come to 90 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 4: these lands and stay and they're what they define as 91 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 4: sovereignty is within this land that they define now as 92 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 4: their own. So and in order for that process to happen, 93 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: there needs to be different forms of genocide of the 94 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 4: indigenous populations. And so that's what we saw with Christopher 95 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 4: Columbus and throughout history was just the depletion of a 96 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 4: lot of our indigenous populace. And so when I mean 97 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 4: about the United States being a Setlic colonial state, I 98 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 4: mean that this is current and ongoing. And so when 99 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 4: we talk about federal Indian policy, federal Indian policy, he 100 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 4: is always in this conversation with what started with Christopher 101 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 4: columb This as the doctrine of discovery, and so that's 102 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 4: how we define the colonial period and feel free to 103 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 4: like stop me and ask me questions. Also just going 104 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 4: to try to move quickly because there's a lot. 105 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we probably should briefly talk about what 106 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: the doctory discovery is, at least before we get to 107 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: the Marshall trilogy and stuff for sure. So what does 108 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: that actually mean legally? 109 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 4: So legally, it's the discovery of a quote unquote newfound 110 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 4: Land by European colonial forces. And the reason why it's 111 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 4: called the doctrine of discovery was that indigenous peoples on 112 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 4: these lands were deemed unable to govern themselves and they 113 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 4: did not know how to utilize their land up to 114 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 4: the definition of what the European powers thought land use. 115 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 4: Was that indigenous peoples didn't have the same concept of 116 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 4: property and same with their relationship with resources and resource extraction. 117 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 4: So when Christopher Columbus and all of these other colonizers 118 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 4: Conkystick Doors came to the quote unquote New Land, they 119 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 4: saw all of this rich, plentiful resource and thoughts of themselves, well, 120 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 4: obviously these people don't know what they're doing because there's 121 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 4: just so much they have not done anything with it. 122 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: And we're going to take this back to two hours 123 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 4: because obviously their inferior beings and don't know what property is. 124 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 4: So legally, the adoptionne of Discovery conveyed legal title to 125 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 4: and ownership of the American soil to European nations, a 126 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 4: title that devolved to the United States, and so this 127 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 4: definition is expansive and expansive Discovery implies that Native nations 128 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 4: have a right to lands as occupants or possessors, but 129 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 4: they are incompetent to manage those lands and need a 130 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 4: quote unquote benevolent guardian such as a federal government who 131 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 4: holds legal title. And so when we're talking about this 132 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 4: legal title, it devolves to the United States later on 133 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 4: in history after the American Revolution, and so rather than 134 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 4: being colonial states as the United States like thirteen original colonies, 135 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 4: given the American Revolution and its own constitution and its 136 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 4: creation of itself as a nation state, then that turns 137 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 4: into a settler colonial government. 138 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we can. Yeah, we can get to 139 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: what happens next then, because yeah, yeah, you have this 140 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 3: elaborate label or framework that lets you steal people's land 141 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: and murder them and then control it. And then the 142 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: outgrowth of that is this sort of weird event where 143 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: the colonies go into rebellion and suddenly, yeah, there's not 144 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: a colony. They're not colonies. Anymore, they just are the state. 145 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 3: And so yeah, what happens next after the sort of 146 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: formation of the United States. 147 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 4: So after the formation of the United States, so we 148 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 4: have this period the American Revolution, that's all not really 149 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 4: dive that into. It is seventeen seventy six to seventeen 150 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 4: eighty nine, and it's called the Confederation period. But next 151 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 4: we have the Trade and Intercourse Act era, which is 152 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 4: from seventeen eighty nine to eighteen thirty five. And so 153 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 4: this is defined with the United States Constitution and Congress's 154 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 4: exclusive right to regulate trade relations and make lands and 155 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 4: land secessions, and enter into treaties with tribes. So this 156 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 4: is a treaty making era with the tribes that only 157 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 4: the United States federal government is able to And there's 158 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 4: a distinction there because there had been a lot of 159 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 4: contestation between states and the federal government as to who 160 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 4: is going to now deal with these nations that are 161 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 4: within our own settler colonial borders. So whose job is 162 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 4: that to solve this issue? So within the United States Constitution, 163 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 4: there are three clauses that define the United States legal 164 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 4: relationship to American Indians, and so these are the treaty 165 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 4: making clause, the commerce clause, and the property clause. And 166 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 4: so this movement from just lying on the doctrine of 167 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 4: discovery and treaty making processes between different European powers now 168 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 4: is between the United States federal government and tribes. And 169 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 4: so what this does is now tribes are located within 170 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 4: the United States territory, and this places Indians within the 171 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 4: boundaries and jurisdiction of the United States, and now they're 172 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 4: a matter of domestic. 173 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 2: Interest something at last. 174 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 3: It's one of the sort of complicated questions that that 175 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 3: changes through this whole era, which is about what does 176 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: sovereignty mean for these tribes and to what extent they 177 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 3: even continue to possess it, and how does that even 178 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: sort of how does that work if when you have 179 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 3: this new state that sort of just has his clean control. 180 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 4: Here, right, And also during this period, well later on 181 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 4: when we have, sorry jumping ahead of myself, when we 182 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 4: have the extermination of the treaty making process, and this 183 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 4: completely removes seeing tribes as independent sovereign nations. So I 184 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 4: think that will kind of get more into that later. 185 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 4: But the thing with federal Indian policy is that it's 186 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 4: sort of self prophesizing. So as settlers are moving across America. 187 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 4: The United States government also has to create these policies 188 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 4: in order to legalize these land cessations and movements. And 189 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 4: a pattern that we do see here throughout history and 190 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 4: throughout time is that the United States federal government, as 191 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 4: a settler state, is over the rights of over the 192 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 4: rights to land and rights of indigenous peoples themselves. You 193 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 4: have a priority of the settler state in order to 194 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 4: acquire land. So a lot of the reason I later 195 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 4: these treaties will be broken, et cetera, is because suttlers 196 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 4: are moving into these lands and the United States is 197 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 4: then breaking these treaties in order to have more more land, 198 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 4: more land successions. Yeah. 199 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the law sort of just following the 200 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: violence and it just becomes a sort of retroactive justification 201 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 3: for yes, just looking everything. 202 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 4: It's a self justifying sort of sovereignty. Yeah. So this 203 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 4: is the Removal period and what a lot of people 204 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 4: may have heard of. So it's from eighteen thirty five 205 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 4: to eighteen sixty one, and what we have is the 206 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 4: extinguishment of Indian title to eastern lands and the removal 207 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 4: of Indian tribes westward. So one of the most notable 208 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 4: acts is the Removal Act, which was authorized by President 209 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 4: Andrew Jackson, which moved Indians from the east to the 210 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 4: west of the Mississippi River into what is was called 211 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 4: Indian Territory. And what brought about this federal federal act 212 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 4: was a series of three foundational statutes within federal Indian 213 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 4: policy dictated by Chief Justice John Marshall. So first we 214 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 4: have Johnson B. McIntosh, Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, and Worcester v. Georgia. 215 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 4: And I won't go into too much detail, but what 216 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 4: this these essentially did and legally defined tribes as being 217 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 4: domestic dependent nations. And so it clarified more that again 218 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 4: tribal nations are underneath the federal government's overview, not the states. 219 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 4: So yeah, it placed tribes above state jurisdiction. And what 220 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 4: this was trying to do was solved some issues that 221 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 4: tribes such as the Cherokee Nation had with different states 222 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 4: when it came to land and jurisdiction overstaid land. But 223 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 4: that is kind of the basis of a lot of 224 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 4: federal Indian policy and soilarmage truth day. And what is 225 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 4: notable in each one of these statutes, I believe particularly 226 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 4: in Worcester v. Georgia, although it seems that it was 227 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 4: supporting tribal sovereignty in them in that they were above 228 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 4: state jurisdiction. A lot of these statutes cited racist President 229 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 4: and the Doctrine of Discovery. So what you see for 230 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 4: federal Indian policy is that a lot of the founder, 231 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 4: well all the foundation for a federal Indian policy based 232 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 4: on President is the Doctrine of Discovery, which is reliant 233 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 4: on the idea that American Indians savages and needed federal 234 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 4: benevolence and paternalism in order to regulate their own affairs. 235 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's well, okay, we should probably 236 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 3: not just immediately get to allotment, but yeah, because there's 237 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 3: there's there's there's also Yeah, this is also the period 238 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: we used. Yeah, the thing you were talking about earlier, 239 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 3: the thing you helped me know about, which is, okay, 240 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: it's not true to say this is when this starts, 241 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: but this is Indian Removal Act, Trail of Tears territory. 242 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 3: And one thing that you know, I think one of 243 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 3: the sort of running themes of this is that, you know, 244 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 3: the the law in this context is just sort of 245 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 3: it becomes a sort of retroactive excuse to do whatever 246 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: like needs to be done from the perspective quote unquote 247 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 3: of the sort of of the settler state to just 248 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: take all of this land. Yeah, and I think maybe 249 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 3: like one of the keystones of this is Andrew Jackson 250 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 3: just straight up telling of in court to fuck off 251 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: so that he can do so he can do a 252 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 3: trail tears. 253 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. So the Removal Act happened after all of these 254 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 4: statutes that you already had that supported federal Indian sovereignty, 255 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 4: and so the Cherokees in Georgia were one of the 256 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 4: tribes that were removed. And so you kind of see 257 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 4: what you talked about, the the retrograde kind of justifications 258 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 4: for said removal despite the statutes that are there. So 259 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 4: although that like Marshall in Worchester fed Georgia determined that 260 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 4: the state of Georgia did not have jurisdiction over Cherokee 261 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 4: territory all this although this territory was in the state's borders, 262 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: later on you see with the Removal Act that although 263 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 4: these statutes are still president in federal Indian policy, those 264 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 4: were null in order for there to be more expansion 265 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 4: of settlers within these areas. So when it was decided that, oh, wait, 266 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 4: we do need this land and we don't actually want 267 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 4: these Indians here, let's put them to the side overpast 268 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 4: the Mississippi so that they're out of mind. Right, So 269 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 4: we see more of this justification for settler expansion, and 270 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 4: so again we bring back to these themes of like 271 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 4: settler colonialism in order to kind of gain more of 272 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 4: this land. And a lot of these statutes are still 273 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 4: cited the doctrine of discovery in them, and rather than 274 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 4: supporting tribal policy, the relationship between the United States federal 275 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 4: government and American Indians was not based on the rights 276 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 4: of Indians, but more that they can't they can't govern themselves, 277 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 4: right and so so and that's the whole issue is 278 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 4: like people were like they don't know what they're doing, 279 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 4: so we're gonna push them and like take their land again. 280 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 4: So I don't know if you want me to go 281 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 4: too much into the trail of tears, but you're seeing 282 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 4: a lot of patterns here, I think, different forms of genocide, 283 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 4: different forms of taking land. 284 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 5: This was this is all around the same time as 285 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 5: the Indian Act in Canada as well, which was a 286 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 5: very similar thing, especially starting in the nineteen hundred. It's 287 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 5: starting in the twentieth century as well with the expansion 288 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 5: of the like assimilation programs. 289 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I guess one other thing I 290 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 3: want to point out about this is that, you know, 291 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 3: so one of the things that happens to trailers tiars 292 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 3: is that the Supreme Court like tells Jackson that he 293 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 3: can't do this, and Jackson just does it anyways. And 294 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: I think that's a very interesting important moment because you know, 295 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 3: this is this is this thing right where the federal 296 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 3: government can tell there is the Supreme Court to fuck off, right, 297 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: and there's nothing the Supreme Court could do about it. 298 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 3: And if you look at what they did it to do, 299 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 3: the thing they did it to do was genocide. And 300 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 3: it's I think it's it's just I think this is 301 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 3: very sort of I don't know, this incredibly grim, like 302 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 3: you know, encapsulation of like what this state actually is, 303 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 3: which is this sort of genocide machine and whatever sort 304 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: of you know, this is what sovereignty is, right, the 305 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 3: ability to break your own rules to sort of or 306 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 3: to maintain the system. So you you know, you break 307 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 3: your own laws, and you know, as we're going to 308 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: get to in a second, like you break your own 309 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: treaties continuously, and you do this because you know, the 310 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 3: genoicide machine has to keep moving, right. 311 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 4: And there's a couple of federal Indian policy theorists Bendelari 312 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 4: Junior who's one of the most famous ones, and David E. 313 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 4: Wilkins who talks about how there is no need for 314 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 4: checks and balances within the federal Indian policy system. So 315 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 4: you have Congress that is able to pass whatever they want, 316 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 4: and then you also have the Supreme Court, and then 317 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: you also have executive action. But it wasn't really delineated 318 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 4: that well within especially when it comes to this period 319 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 4: as to who is going to be dealing with the 320 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 4: Indians kind of thing. And so this kind of confusion 321 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 4: and not really completely defining what it means to be 322 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 4: a domestic dependent nation, I think really just goes to 323 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 4: show how much of a fragile edifice like settler colonial 324 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 4: policy is for it is within the system. But again 325 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 4: moving on, it comes back again to land. So the 326 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 4: reservation area era in eighteen sixty one to eighteen eighty 327 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 4: sevens you have a lot of westward expansion of non 328 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 4: Indians settlers specifically to California. You also have the creation 329 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 4: of Indian reservations and resulting Indian wars. So during this era, 330 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 4: what you see a lot of are different types of 331 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 4: attents that assimulation and a lot of warfare. So you 332 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 4: have a lot of the plains tribes might tribe for instance, 333 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 4: that are going through all of these battles fighting forced 334 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 4: removal onto reservations. One of the most famous ones was 335 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 4: the Battle of Greasy Grass, was a little big horn 336 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 4: where General Custer was killed by Sioux, Cheyennes and Arapahos, 337 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 4: and different instances of battles such as those, and also 338 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 4: where a lot of tribes were forcibly removed to areas 339 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 4: that there were weren't originally from. So like how the 340 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 4: Sheriffes were moved to Oklahoma, there was a terms of 341 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 4: my tribe, for instance, Northern Cheyenne to being moved down 342 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 4: to Oklahoma as well, and that's why there's some Southern 343 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 4: Cheyennes in Oklahoma and then my tribe, the Northern Schance 344 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 4: in Montana. Another another thing that is happening during this 345 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: period are boarding schools the boarding school era, so this 346 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 4: attempt at assimilation through education and assimilation is also within 347 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 4: within the settler colonial kind of structure. It's it's defined 348 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 4: as a process where indigenous people end up conforming to 349 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 4: different constructed notions of settular norms. So if they're not 350 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 4: absorbed within the state completely, then their attempted attempt to 351 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 4: be assimilated culturally through education, through languages, in terms of economics. 352 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 4: So now you have a bunch of different sort of 353 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 4: bureaucratic structures on these reservations trying to make tribal governments 354 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 4: appear to be or constructed as settler colonial governments are. 355 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 4: So maybe it's the three branches in ways that aren't 356 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 4: just compatible with different tribes culturally, and you also have 357 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 4: the attempted eradication of different kind of spiritual and cultural practices, 358 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 4: and a lot of Christianity be forse not to different people, 359 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 4: and just kind of terrible things that I think more 360 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 4: and more people are becoming aware of due to current movements. 361 00:25:49,000 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 4: But we'll get into that mode later. Ye. 362 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 3: Do we want to talk about a lot of pace, 363 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 3: because if this is in the. 364 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 4: Same period, yes, a lotment period and force assimilation. So 365 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 4: this is like eighteen seventy one to nineteen thirty four, 366 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 4: and so this is the end of the treaty making process. 367 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 4: So the whole idea of trying to force tribes onto 368 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 4: reservations and sign these treaties were to again take land 369 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 4: and make sure that the United States has more land 370 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 4: and all the land, et cetera that they possibly have. 371 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 4: So at this end of treaty making and federal allotment 372 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 4: of Indian lands also happened in the DAWs Act. And 373 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 4: so what this was was an attempt to further shrink 374 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 4: the reservation lands that tribes are already guaranteed with than treaties. 375 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 4: So during this period, I think somewhere like nine million 376 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 4: acres were taken from tribal reservations during the allotment process. 377 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 4: So what the allotment process did was it counted each 378 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 4: in every individual Indian that was eligible. I think there 379 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 4: were adults, yeah, adults that were eligible, and each one 380 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 4: of them were given a certain parcel of land, a 381 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 4: certain number acreage. And once all of this land was calculated, 382 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 4: what you had was an excess of land quote unquote 383 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 4: excess of land that the tribes obviously didn't need because 384 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 4: they had still to too many people. And so what 385 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 4: the excess of land was utilized fors for pioneers and 386 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 4: for settlers if it didn't go to the federal government. 387 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 4: It was to incentivize settlers to colonize especial specil on 388 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 4: Indian lands. So trying its hardest to not stay true 389 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 4: to it's treaty making practices. 390 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: I think the every thing that was interesting to me 391 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 3: about this is that, like, because one of the other 392 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 3: goals of this is to sort of like, oh, it's 393 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 3: the civilizing mission. It's like, yeah, we're going to turn 394 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 3: them into We're gonna turn these people into like like 395 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 3: yeoman farmers, like true American frontiersmen or whatever. And it's 396 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 3: just like it just doesn't work because economically it doesn't 397 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 3: make any sense. Like breaking up all these like lands 398 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 3: is like it doesn't you can't just give someone like 399 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,239 Speaker 3: a small patch of like shitty land and have them 400 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 3: farm like this doesn't like this, it doesn't. It doesn't. 401 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 3: Like they certainly tried, and. 402 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 5: Then yeah, yeah, yeah, Like that was one of the 403 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 5: main things. One of the main things in Canada was 404 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 5: about getting them to adopt like like European farming practices, 405 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 5: which which they they they already knew how to like 406 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 5: get their own food, right. They were trying to change 407 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 5: this whole system of of of like of food growth 408 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 5: to this like to this European way of farming, and 409 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 5: it just and they were just forcing them to and 410 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 5: there's yeah, it's it's yes, it gets it gets, it 411 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 5: gets super, it gets super like dark and horrible. Once 412 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,479 Speaker 5: you like look at like the letters that were being 413 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 5: written by like the heads of these programs, like you know, instructing, 414 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 5: like these agents were stationed at these like reservations to 415 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 5: like force people to be doing this horrible farming for 416 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 5: like all day every day. 417 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, the sign that this was 418 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 3: like like this is this is so bad that even 419 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: the US government eventually is like wait this this like 420 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 3: this is fucked up and doesn't work. So I think 421 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 3: that's yeah, you transition to sort of like the next phase. 422 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, a very short phase. Yeah. So the 423 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 4: next phase is the Indian Reorganization Act. And so this 424 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 4: only lasted six years from nineteen thirty four to nineteen forty. 425 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 4: So this is when a lotment ended. As you said, 426 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 4: the United States government was like, wait, this isn't working. 427 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 4: What else can we do? The Indians aren't dying off, 428 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 4: They're not assimilating, they're not a culturating. We don't know 429 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 4: what to do with them, so maybe we'll have them 430 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 4: adopt these constitutions. And a lot of them were just templates, 431 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 4: so regardless of whether or not they were I think 432 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 4: compatible with tribal different tribes way of life, they were like, 433 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 4: you have these constitutions. Now, now you're a tribe, and 434 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 4: this is what each tribe has to look like in 435 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 4: order for us, the federal government to recognize you as 436 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 4: a legitimate entity. And then so you have the establishment 437 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 4: of these tribal governments that consist of tribal councils and 438 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 4: big business committees, et cetera. However, this period is fleeting, 439 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 4: very fleeting. And next you have the termination era. So 440 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 4: this is the period of time where the federal government 441 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 4: essentially even more so, wants to just get rid of 442 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 4: the quote unquote Indian problem, which is the existence of 443 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 4: indigenous peoples that are reminders to the government essentially that 444 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 4: they are a setlar colonial force and they don't know 445 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 4: what to do with us because they tried to commit genocide, 446 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 4: they tried to remove us, et cetera, et cetera. It's 447 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 4: still not working. They decided that our tribal governments aren't legitimate, 448 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 4: and they just decide, well, it's too much to try 449 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 4: to keep up with our treaties and what we promised 450 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 4: them when it comes to health care, education, housing, et cetera, 451 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 4: et cetera. How about we terminate our federal responsibility, our 452 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 4: trust responsibility that are delineated in federal Indian policy and 453 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 4: in our treaties and give them off to this to 454 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 4: the states to decide what to do with. And so 455 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 4: during this period you see sort of the federal dissolution 456 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 4: of some tribes such as the monogamy and other ones. 457 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 2: As well. 458 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 4: So this is another dark time there. The dark times 459 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 4: just keep on coming. And what Federalian policy scholars have 460 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 4: characterized federal learn policy as a pendulum, so swing swinging 461 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 4: from side to side between this termin this termination of tribes, 462 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 4: so the federal Indian government as trying to get rid 463 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 4: of tribes, especially as you can see in this era, 464 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 4: and then the pendulum of the other side of self determination. 465 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 4: But both of these are held within the context of 466 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 4: goals of assimilation. So this is just another phase of terribleness. 467 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 3: Yep. 468 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: Well, I think this this phase also like one thing. 469 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 3: I think that also, like is important people understand is 470 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 3: it like like it's not like people aren't fighting this 471 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 3: like the whole time. I mean even going like even 472 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 3: going back to the stuff the seventh Cavalry, like the 473 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 3: stuff of cavalry lose like bores, they lose bells all 474 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 3: the time. People are fighting constantly. And this is this period. 475 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 3: Determination period is also where you see the rise of 476 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 3: the American Indian movements. 477 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of these periods can be like dove 478 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 4: into more and all of these different things. In every instance, 479 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 4: in every instance of federal Indian policy, you have resistance, 480 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 4: which we are not covering here right now, but you 481 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 4: have instances throughout history where indigenous peoples have fought for 482 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 4: their rights to land, for their community, to being sovereign nations, 483 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 4: et cetera. And that's why the federal Indian the federal government, 484 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 4: not federal Indian government, the federal government has not been 485 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 4: able to eradicate us, much to their dismay. And so 486 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 4: now I'm going to switch into the era that we 487 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 4: are considered to be in, which I had mentioned when 488 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 4: I talked about the pendulum of federal Indian policy. So 489 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 4: now we are in the self determination era. Which began 490 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty two, and we have the right. It's 491 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 4: characterized with the revitalization of tribal entities. So going kind 492 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 4: of back to when there was the Indian Reorganization Act, 493 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 4: that we have our tribal councils. There's restoration of some 494 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 4: tribes under federal recognition who were terminated, again not all 495 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 4: of them. We also have the Indian Civil Rights Act, 496 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 4: so this this kind of guaranteed individual Indians some rights 497 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 4: not just characterized by their tribes. Also the self Determined 498 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 4: Nation policy, so this is when Nixon condemned the termination 499 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 4: policy and gave more control to Indians rather than the 500 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 4: Bureau of Indian ferris which just a federal bureau, and 501 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 4: just kind of like other policies that have given the 502 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 4: tribes more rights to determine for themselves and their own trust, 503 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 4: their own people to a certain degree underneath the federal 504 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 4: government as se message dependent nations. And again I think 505 00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 4: that we have seen a lot more movement, but within 506 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 4: the context of being within a settler colonial state. It's 507 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 4: always I think a possibility that the federal Indian government 508 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 4: or the federal government I keep saying Indian, the federal 509 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 4: government will try to take more and more. And I think, 510 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 4: for instance, when it comes to issues of fishing rights, 511 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 4: issues of hunting rights with states, not even just with 512 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 4: the federal government. So you have a lot of states 513 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 4: throughout throughout history but still ongoing that attempt to encroach 514 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 4: on tribal treaties. And again, treaties are the basis of 515 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 4: federal Indian policy. Without these treaties, the lands would have 516 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 4: never been seceeded to the United States. And so there's 517 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 4: this sort of like legal legal conundrum, I would say, 518 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 4: of where all these all treaties in the history of 519 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 4: the United States with Indian with Indian tribes have been 520 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 4: broken in some way, shape or form. But still American 521 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 4: Indians have to live on their reservations instead of having 522 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 4: their their land back. And so nowadays a lot of 523 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 4: movement has been towards land back. What this means, what 524 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 4: is this process? And I think it means a lot 525 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 4: of different things for different people, Indigenous people, because again 526 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 4: there's there's five hundred and seventy four federally recognized tribes 527 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 4: and so it's not one monolith of ideas, the monolith 528 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 4: of beliefs. But by just by saying land back that's 529 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 4: like recognition that this is our this was our land first, 530 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 4: and you're not keeping your side of the deal and 531 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 4: never have been. 532 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 5: Could you maybe go a bit more into land back 533 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 5: as the topic, because like specifically, like the past five years, 534 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 5: it has really gain a lot more like popularity as 535 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 5: like a slogan, but I think for a lot of 536 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 5: a lot of people who you like chanted and hear 537 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 5: it don't always really know exactly what it means. There's 538 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 5: a lot of like mixed opinions on what it means. 539 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 5: Of course, on like the more like reactionary side, it's 540 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 5: like people will be like, what you're gonna like kick 541 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 5: white people out of these areas? Like that's kind of 542 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 5: that's what a lot of like the reactionary takes on 543 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 5: land back is. And I'm sure most people are listening 544 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 5: to this podcast that's not what they think, but they 545 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 5: may not really know exactly what it means either. They 546 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 5: may think it sounds a good idea, but they're not 547 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 5: quite sure what it is. Do you mind kind of 548 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 5: talking about how land back has like developed as as 549 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 5: an idea and what like what like you mean by 550 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 5: it personally? 551 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 4: At least, Yeah, I think I could talk about more 552 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 4: about like what I mean by it personally and what 553 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 4: I've understood it to mean to other people, because I 554 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 4: think land back itself, it means like a lot of 555 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 4: different things, and I don't think that there has been 556 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 4: a concrete kind of idea of what it means. But 557 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 4: I think a lot of the movement I want to 558 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 4: like contextualize it within a lot of the sort of 559 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 4: activism that we've seen in their recent years. So for instance, 560 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 4: no Daffle the Dakota Access Pipeline in twenty sixteen, and 561 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 4: kind of I think that's one of the more recent 562 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,800 Speaker 4: events that have really illustrated on a wide scale, like 563 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 4: globally about indigenous movements, sovereign movements, and especially when it 564 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 4: comes to environmental justice. But what you saw there was 565 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 4: encroachment on tribal treaty land within what it had to 566 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,800 Speaker 4: do with the Dakota Access pipeline. So although it didn't 567 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 4: cross some of the current reservation borders, it was in 568 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 4: treaty land, you know that kind of thing. 569 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 5: The same thing with Stop line three, how it encroached 570 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 5: on like the hunting land and the farmland that was 571 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 5: not technically in that like residential like not in like 572 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 5: the reservation area where people live, but it's in the 573 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 5: surrounding area that is for hunting that is specified in 574 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 5: the treaty. Keeople trying to use these loopholes to get 575 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 5: the pipelines. 576 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 4: Through right, right, And so I think what you see 577 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 4: is a lot of solidarity across tribes because this is 578 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 4: not new. This has never been new, and a lot 579 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 4: of tribes can relate to that. And what you've seen 580 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 4: and what I've hoped that I've highlighted throughout this kind 581 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 4: of very brief overview of vetereral new policy is the 582 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 4: different ways that Indigenous rights to land and sovereignty has 583 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 4: been attacked in different forms by settler and colonial governments. 584 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 4: And I think that the day and age that we 585 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 4: live in now has allowed for sort of more widespread solidarity, 586 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 4: especially over social media. And so when we say land 587 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 4: back for me, how I interpret it as what people 588 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 4: mean when they're saying it is recognition of our tribal sovereignty, 589 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 4: of our right to this land that has not been respected. 590 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 4: And then I also think that it means, well, if 591 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 4: these treaties aren't being respected, then how is this treaty 592 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 4: still valid? Right? How Come we aren't getting our land 593 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 4: back because you're not upholding your end of the deal. 594 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 4: While some people also might mean and recognize that this 595 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 4: whole United States government is a settler state right based 596 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 4: on the doctrine of discovery, which is based on denying 597 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 4: tribes and American Indians of their rights to this land. 598 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 4: So some people might take it to this whole other 599 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 4: context of yeah, well maybe this is this is all 600 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 4: of our land, et cetera, et cetera. But in practice, 601 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 4: what does this look like? And I think in practice 602 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 4: a lot of people are seeing it with reparations or 603 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 4: people buying land back for tribes and giving it back 604 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 4: to tribes, and we have seen some of that, or 605 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 4: also just people interrupting the narrative in their own mind 606 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 4: of their euro American identity, so not non American Indians 607 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:47,359 Speaker 4: and primarily European settlers and their history of their own 608 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 4: families taking part of the settler colonial process, and how 609 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 4: has that what about their lands. There's everyone who descends, 610 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 4: I guess, from these these settlers, and I want to 611 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 4: be specific when I'm talking about Euro American settlers and 612 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 4: how they currently benefit from these systems. And I think 613 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 4: by saying land back, it's we're able to highlight this 614 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 4: movement for tribal sovereignty and recognition on a global scale 615 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 4: instead of searching for justice within the quote unquote, like 616 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 4: searching for justice within the courts of the conqueror, How 617 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 4: do we expect for the conqueror to be held accountable 618 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 4: for all of these atrocities, attempts of genocide, assimilation, et cetera. 619 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 4: By taking it more towards a global scale, such as 620 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 4: no adaptable, highlighting these to other people as these are injustices, 621 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 4: this is, this is ongoing genocide. I think that land 622 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 4: back has many, like a plethora of meanings in that sense. Yeah, yeah, 623 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 4: I hope that answers your question. I myself might use 624 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 4: it in in some some different ways because land as 625 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 4: we conceive it to be property kind of grew. That 626 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 4: concept grew in conversation with Euro. 627 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,760 Speaker 2: American Yeah, absolutely, yeah. 628 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 4: Conceptions of property. So I think that moving forward, when 629 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 4: we talk about decolonization as a process and not like 630 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 4: a metaphor, that thinking of land back not within that 631 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 4: whole idea of your American property as well. That's that's 632 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 4: kind of another thing to consider. 633 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I think land back would just be 634 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 5: a whole other thing that will pay someone more qualified 635 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 5: than our team to talk about on this show, because yeah, 636 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 5: it's definitely, like you know, like all of the things 637 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 5: we've we've discussed, they deserve their own deep dives by 638 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 5: people that are uh not to meet Robert and Chris. 639 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 5: Let's see. Is there any kind of resources, either books 640 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,760 Speaker 5: or stuff online that you would recommend for people wanting 641 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 5: to learn more about this history and then any kind 642 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 5: of ways to I don't know. I I guess show 643 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 5: support in these and these kind of like efforts that 644 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 5: are going on. 645 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 4: For sure. So in terms of resources and reading, I 646 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:37,439 Speaker 4: have read Lorenzo Vercini's Settler Book on Settler Colonialism. That's 647 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 4: really helpful when you're trying to understand that framework in 648 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 4: terms of getting to know kind of more of the 649 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:51,760 Speaker 4: basics of like current issues impacting tribes. The National Congress 650 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 4: of American Indians does a lot of work on the 651 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 4: federal level. If you want to talk more about kind 652 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 4: of lived current lived experiences of American Indians, there's illuminatives 653 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 4: and getting more involved in those as well. I think 654 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 4: that they have some tips, but I would recommend everyone 655 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 4: getting more familiar with the land that they are on 656 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 4: currently the tribes within their state and what they can 657 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 4: do not just on the local level, but on the 658 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 4: state level to support tribal sovereignty because a lot of issues. 659 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 4: For instance, I worked on the state policy level in 660 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,840 Speaker 4: Washington and in Montana, and both of those have a 661 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 4: significant amount of tribes, but you have a lot of 662 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 4: legislation that's trying to happen that infringes on tribal treaty rights. 663 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 4: And the thing is is as ugly as it may 664 00:46:53,160 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 4: be to say, but sometimes voices of non indigenous peoples 665 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 4: are listening to you more within those contexts, So you 666 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,879 Speaker 4: need to get more involved on those levels. What sort 667 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 4: of like at nonprofit organizations work with your tribes, and 668 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 4: what sort of issues are impacting tribes, And again, these 669 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 4: are all going to probably be surrounding tribal sovereignty, so 670 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 4: maybe it's fishing access, hunting rights, et cetera. I think 671 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 4: that's a really good way to make some more tangible change, 672 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,920 Speaker 4: to feel like you're doing something to support tribal sovereignty 673 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 4: while you're also educating yourself and making sure that their 674 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 4: voices are at the forefront. And that's also applicable to 675 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 4: the federal level, especially with as you already said, like 676 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 4: stop line three in Minnesota, contacting your legislators, et cetera, 677 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 4: et cetera. And I think also with when it comes 678 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 4: to one of one of the larger issues besides environmental 679 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 4: justice for Indigenous peoples such as pipelines, you have right 680 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 4: now missing a murdered Indigenous women, So looking in looking 681 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 4: into that a little bit more and who you can 682 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 4: support who's addressing those issues. Along with there is another 683 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,880 Speaker 4: movement with boarding schools right now because there's been a 684 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 4: lot of bodies of young children that have been uncovered, 685 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 4: and this is not an issue that happened a long 686 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 4: long time ago, like for instance, my grandmother went to 687 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 4: a boarding school. There's still schools that although they're not 688 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 4: called boarding schools right now that we're boarding schools but 689 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 4: are an operation under different names, et cetera. So kind 690 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 4: of familiarizing yourself with those histories. And then also there's 691 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:15,360 Speaker 4: a national I think it's called the National Boarding School 692 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,319 Speaker 4: Healing Coalition based out of Minnesota, and looking into them 693 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 4: and supporting their efforts with this issue is also a 694 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:25,359 Speaker 4: good place to start. 695 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 5: Is there anywhere that people can find you online? 696 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 4: Yes, I don't. I don't really use social media that much. 697 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I try not to. 698 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 4: I don't know. 699 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 5: If I want people to find me, don't do it. 700 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 5: It's better that people don't find anyone online. It's better 701 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 5: we're all just just posting into the void. There's nothing 702 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:06,319 Speaker 5: just avoid well. That that is I think gonna wrap 703 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 5: up what we have today, Chris, do you want to 704 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 5: close us out with a funny bit? 705 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:19,840 Speaker 1: I light your local gas station on fire. Wow, Jesus 706 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 1: Christ killing it here? Oh my god, geez wow. All right, 707 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 1: goodbye for buddy. 708 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 4: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 709 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,800 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 710 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 4: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 711 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,480 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 712 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 5: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 713 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,280 Speaker 5: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. 714 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:49,320 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.