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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal. How was

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Speaker 3: your Christmas? Ah?

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Speaker 2: It was lovely, great time with family, all that good stuff.

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Speaker 2: We went up to New York for a little bit

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Speaker 2: and traffic wasn't terribly bad, so I count that as

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Speaker 2: a real blessing.

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Speaker 4: How about you, em.

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Speaker 3: It was good, It was good. It was a white

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Speaker 3: Christmas in Wisconsin, so that was Oh.

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Speaker 2: Oh, are you a fan of the white Christmas situation?

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Speaker 2: My youngest daughter is like obsessed with snow. She says

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Speaker 2: she wants to live in the North Bowl in the North.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you gotta have snow like it's it's really

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Speaker 3: I find it very depressing when there's no snow on Christmas.

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Speaker 3: But this is the world we live in now.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, indeed a lot to get to you in

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Speaker 2: the show today. Also, because we've been off, there's like

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Speaker 2: a backlog of stories for us to talk about. But

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Speaker 2: we also have some breaking news, which is that Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Carter has passed at the age of one hundred. So

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Speaker 2: we'll take a little bit of a look at his

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Speaker 2: I would say, sort of complicated legacy. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people see it a lot of different ways. Trump jumped

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Speaker 2: in and shows sides in this ongoing war between Elon

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Speaker 2: Muskin and Bake Ramaswami versus MAGA types like Laura Lumer,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. I'm very excited to hear what you have

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Speaker 2: to say about this, Emily, So I'm looking forward to

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Speaker 2: to sitting back and hearing your thoughts on this whole

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Speaker 2: skirmish that has unfolded.

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Speaker 3: We'll also get a little bit of Sager's thoughts because

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Speaker 3: this is one of Sager's hobby horses, so we'll be

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Speaker 3: all over that too.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 2: In Indians We're catching a lot of stories in this.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy strays is probably the nicest way you could

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Speaker 2: put it. They were, you know, taking a lot of

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Speaker 2: direct in this. So yeah, we'll include some of his

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Speaker 2: thoughts in that block as well, Theoman weighing in on

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Speaker 2: the potential coming TikTok ban as well as Trump weigh

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Speaker 2: in on the potential TikTok ban. That part is probably

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Speaker 2: a little more noworthy than theovon, but we'll give both

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Speaker 2: of their thoughts on that. In terrible news, the last

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Speaker 2: hospital in Gaza has now been destroyed. The head of

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Speaker 2: that hospital has been detained. Reports are that he is

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Speaker 2: being tortured, his family issuing a plea for him to

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Speaker 2: be returned safely. So just continuing horror in the Gaza

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Speaker 2: strip being committed by the IDF.

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Speaker 4: We've got a new.

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Speaker 2: Poll revealing how the country really feels about the murder

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Speaker 2: of that healthcare CEO. And Joe Biden apparently thinks he

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Speaker 2: would have beat Trump emily levels of delusion that I

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Speaker 2: previously thought were not even possible.

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Speaker 4: Are are disagreeing to the four? Yeah? Just amazing.

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Speaker 3: You think, you shockingly think that Donald Trump's at least

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Speaker 3: sentience would have defeated. We beat Medicare Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: It seems like he had a little bit of an

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Speaker 2: edge going into that one, I will say, so any way,

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Speaker 2: he's Biden is finally giving a couple interviews talking about

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Speaker 2: some of his regrets. None of them are the thing

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Speaker 2: I mean. Some of them are like, okay, little political

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Speaker 2: things that he should have done differently, but none of

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Speaker 2: them are like, hey, maybe I shouldn't have run for

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Speaker 2: reelection as this old man who can barely put two

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Speaker 2: sentences together. That party apparently feels no regrets over. So

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Speaker 2: in any case, let's go ahead and jump into this

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Speaker 2: significant news, which is that Jimmy Carter, former president of course,

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Speaker 2: has passed away at the age of one hundred. It's

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Speaker 2: been almost two years since Emily we received the news

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Speaker 2: that he was entering hospice care and foregoing further sort

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Speaker 2: of attempts to you know, extend his life, and he

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Speaker 2: held on much longer than anyone expected. His passing leaves

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden as the now oldest living president and Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump as the oldest you know living second oldest living

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Speaker 2: America and president. So kind of an incredible life, you know,

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Speaker 2: born in rural Georgia obviously in the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: but it was in such a remote part of the

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Speaker 2: country that it was almost like, you know, the lifestyle

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Speaker 2: was still very much eighteen hundreds. So the amount of

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Speaker 2: change and progress and turmoil and all of that that

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Speaker 2: he's seen in his lifetime is hard to truly wrap

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Speaker 2: her head around. And you know, in some ways, it's

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Speaker 2: sort of fitting that he passed at this moment because

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Speaker 2: his presidency really was a transition between the New Deal

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Speaker 2: era and the neoliberal era. A lot of people think

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Speaker 2: of Ronald Reagan as the first truly neoliberal president, which

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Speaker 2: I think is fair, But Jimmy Carter did a lot

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Speaker 2: of neoliberal policies himself. He deregulated the airlines, he regulated

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Speaker 2: the trucking industry, deregulated some of the energy industry. He's

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Speaker 2: the person who installs Paul Volker at the FED. There

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Speaker 2: was a lot of neoliberalism that he was starting to

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Speaker 2: you're in and now here we are kind of at

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Speaker 2: the end of that era. Now is think, especially with

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Speaker 2: Trump retaking the White House, what exactly that's going to

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Speaker 2: look like. We'll talk about more when we get into

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Speaker 2: this fight between Elon maga, et cetera. But certainly here

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Speaker 2: and around the world, that particular era is coming to

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Speaker 2: a close, and so in some ways it's fitting that

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Speaker 2: this is when Jimmy Carter makes his exit.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, that's an interesting point because right now preparations

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Speaker 3: are underway obviously for the funeral, and so typically that

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Speaker 3: brings together all of the living presidents and first ladies,

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Speaker 3: and we've seen that handled a little bit differently during

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Speaker 3: the Trump era. It always does provide some insights into,

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Speaker 3: for example, just how well the Bush family gets along

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Speaker 3: with the Obama family, and you sort of get to

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Speaker 3: see some displays that I think are often unfortunate and

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Speaker 3: displays that are in some ways, you know, give people

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Speaker 3: like Whoopi Goldberg hope that the country is just going

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Speaker 3: to keep on, keep it on, because.

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Speaker 2: You get to see also how much Jill Biden apparently

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Speaker 2: likes Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, oh, maybe he'll wear his cologne again, so

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Speaker 3: I have to see. But all that is to say,

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Carter, to your point, was born in the nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 3: He was born before nuclear weapons were invented, and became

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Speaker 3: a president in the middle of the Cold War, and

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Speaker 3: to this day our foreign policy, for example, think about

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Speaker 3: Israel and Iran is informed by our conduct during the

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Speaker 3: Cold War and the way that the world was dramatically

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Speaker 3: shrunk because of nuclear weapons, which happened literally in his youth.

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Speaker 3: So it's just an incredible is an incredible life.

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Speaker 2: And Joe Biden was apparently the first Senator to endorse

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter in that Democratic primary all those many years ago,

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Speaker 2: so something some of our political figures still definitely hanging

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Speaker 2: in there from that era. One of the things that

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Speaker 2: are typically cited as a signature achievement of his administration,

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Speaker 2: certainly in terms of foreign policy, is the Camp David Accords,

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Speaker 2: which brought peace between Egypt and Israel. You, as a

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Speaker 2: supporter of the Palestinian cause, I see that somewhat differently.

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Speaker 2: It really was a blow to Palestinians. They were excluded

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Speaker 2: from the negotiations. It broke up this sort of Pan

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Speaker 2: Arab unity. Egypt was in many ways their most powerful ally,

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Speaker 2: and there were demands there. There are conditions for Israel

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Speaker 2: to respect Palestinians sovereignty in the West Bank and in

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Speaker 2: the Gaza Strip, but they were never enforced and were

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Speaker 2: sort of always loose enough to allow Israel to continue

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Speaker 2: the project of settlement expansion, which has continued under every

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Speaker 2: single Israeli Prime minister, regardless of party or political you know,

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Speaker 2: political inclination. And so, you know, on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: it did bring peace between these two neighbors, resolved issues

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Speaker 2: with the Sinai Peninsula. But on the other hand, it

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Speaker 2: really was a blow ultimately to the strength and the solidarity,

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Speaker 2: the Pan Arab solidarity of the Palestinian movement. You know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people also make a distinguished distinguished between

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter in office, and most people see his presidency

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Speaker 2: as you know, sort of a failure. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of economic turmoil, there's a lot of political turmoil. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the you know, Iran hostage situation, which in many ways

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Speaker 2: was engineered by the then incoming Ronald Reagan administration. We

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Speaker 2: can leave that aside for another day, clearly was a

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Speaker 2: blow to American self esteem. I mean, it's true, it

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Speaker 2: was pretty well documented that they had this back channel

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Speaker 2: negotiation of hey, you hold on to these hostages until

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Speaker 2: I get into the White House, and then you release them,

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Speaker 2: which exactly what happens.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you want to.

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Speaker 2: Talk about foreign election interference that kind of takes the cake.

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Speaker 2: Most people feel though, his post presidency has been quite

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Speaker 2: remarkable and quite dramatically different from the way that whether

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Speaker 2: it's certainly Clinton Obama, whether the way that most presidents

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Speaker 2: have in the modern era just used the post presidency

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Speaker 2: as a chance to effectively cash in. And yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think Obama is in some ways the worst example of this,

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Speaker 2: because with the Clintons, at least there was some semblance

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Speaker 2: of even though we're not big fans of the Clinton Foundation,

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Speaker 2: here there was some semblance of like, oh, we're doing

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Speaker 2: this for the international good, etc. With the Obama it's

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Speaker 2: been clearly like just their own personal sort of like

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Speaker 2: brand building and you know, their own legacy protection, versus

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Speaker 2: truly being an associated with any larger cause than themselves.

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter, of course, famously very involved in global health initiatives,

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Speaker 2: was working building himself homes for habitat for humanity into

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Speaker 2: his nineties, which is quite extraordinary. And the other thing

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Speaker 2: is he and his wife lived in the same modest

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Speaker 2: Georgia house until, you know, until the very end, until

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Speaker 2: they both ultimately passed. And part of this is a

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Speaker 2: point that Michael Tracy and others have been making the

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Speaker 2: fact that he didn't sell out to the corporate world

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Speaker 2: left him free to speak out quite you know, plainly

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Speaker 2: and boldly on any number of issues, one of those

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Speaker 2: issues being Israel and Palestine. A lot of people are

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Speaker 2: sharing this interview that he did a while back with

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Speaker 2: Amy Goodman. Let me go ahead and pull up a

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Speaker 2: little bit of this where he not only calls out

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Speaker 2: Israel for you know, creating an apartheid state, but he

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Speaker 2: also calls out apak and the influence of money in

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Speaker 2: politics and explains why Americans, you know, are unable to

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Speaker 2: see this conflict as clearly as he is. And let

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Speaker 2: me go ahead and play a little bit of what

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Speaker 2: he had to say.

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Speaker 6: They were apartheid is is exactly accurate. You know, this

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Speaker 6: is an area that's occupied by two powers. They're not

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Speaker 6: completely separated. The Palestinians can even ride on the same

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Speaker 6: roads that the Israels have created or built in Palestinian territory.

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Speaker 6: The israel Is never see a Palestinian except there Israeli soldiers.

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Speaker 6: The Palestinian has never seen is Ready except in the distance,

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Speaker 6: except he is Ready soldiers. So within Palestinian territory they're

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Speaker 6: absolutely and totally separated, much worse than they were in

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Speaker 6: South Africa, by the way. And the other thing is

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Speaker 6: the other definition of a part, that is, one side

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Speaker 6: dominates the other, and he is ready to completely dominate

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Speaker 6: the life of the Palestinian people.

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Speaker 3: Why don't Americans know what you have seen?

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Speaker 6: Americans don't want to know, and the Israelis don't want

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Speaker 6: to know what is going on inside Palestine. It's a

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Speaker 6: terrible human rights persecution that is far transcends what any

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Speaker 6: outsider would imagine. And they're powerful political forces in America

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Speaker 6: that prevents any objective analysis of the problem in the

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Speaker 6: Holy Land. I think it's accurate to say that not

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Speaker 6: a single member of Congress with which I'm with whom

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Speaker 6: I'm familiar would possibly speak out and call for Israel

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Speaker 6: to withdraw to their legal boundaries, or to publicize the

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Speaker 6: plight of the Palestinians, or even to call publicly and

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Speaker 6: repeatedly for good faith peace talks. There had been a

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Speaker 6: day of peace talks now in more than seven years,

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Speaker 6: So this is a taboo subject. And I would say

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Speaker 6: that if any member of Congress did speak out as

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Speaker 6: I've just described, they would probably not be back into

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Speaker 6: Congress the next term.

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Speaker 4: So there you go.

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Speaker 2: And I do think part of why he was able

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Speaker 2: and felt free to speak out such as this, to

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Speaker 2: go visit any world leader that effectively asked him to,

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Speaker 2: even you know, people like Castro, who obviously most you know,

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Speaker 2: living American presidents would not be going and visiting, was

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Speaker 2: because he was not bought off by anyone. He truly

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Speaker 2: was his own man until the end. And I think

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Speaker 2: you know that aspect of his legacy to me is

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Speaker 2: very is extremely admirable.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a really good point. There's this

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Speaker 3: sense of, you know, I hate when politicians say I've

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Speaker 3: served in Congress or I've served the constituents of my

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Speaker 3: district for a decade. It's not service to people anymore.

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Speaker 3: That ethic is completely scrubbed from Washington. But Jimmy Carter

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Speaker 3: is sort of old enough that you know, in a

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Speaker 3: lot of ways he represented how elites used to see politics.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's like better or worse, but there's

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Speaker 3: like this no bless oblige about the privilege of power,

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Speaker 3: and that it would it would sort of be shameful

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Speaker 3: and embarrassing to be so brazen as the Obamas are

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Speaker 3: or Another great example is actually, as the Bidens were

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Speaker 3: in Biden's host vice presidency, the brazenness with which they

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Speaker 3: exploited their power would have been really shameful in other

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Speaker 3: eras of American history. And Jimmy Carter somebody for him

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Speaker 3: that is like very obvious, and we look at him

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Speaker 3: as different now because he has handled it differently in

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Speaker 3: the last year compared to how our presidents have in

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Speaker 3: the last couple of decades. But the only thing I

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Speaker 3: wanted to mention on that crystal is he's also old

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Speaker 3: enough as a Democrat that he was friends with Billy

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Speaker 3: Graham and the sort of evangelical wave in the moral

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Speaker 3: majority people in the seventies and the eighties. And to

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Speaker 3: have him talking about the Middle East in the way

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Speaker 3: that he's talked about the Middle East since is incredibly noteworthy.

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Speaker 3: Really rankles conservatives. Obviously, nobody needs me to say that,

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Speaker 3: but it's clear that he really was informed by his

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Speaker 3: faith throughout his tenure, also true and afterwards, and in

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Speaker 3: a way that again is seen as crazy now it's

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Speaker 3: seen as exceptional and different before a Southern Democrat in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, you know, it really wasn't well.

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Speaker 2: And the contrast with Trump is also quite remarkable because

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Speaker 2: Trump didn't wait till his post presidency to cash in.

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Speaker 2: You know, famously, if you wanted to get in with him,

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Speaker 2: you would stay at his hotel and make sure you

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Speaker 2: ran up a big bill. Now he has his own

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Speaker 2: crypto coin. He's selling sneakers selling it gus. You reference

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Speaker 2: before selling a cologne. Jimmy Carter sold his peanut farm

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Speaker 2: before he entered the White House, just to make it

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Speaker 2: clear that he had no potential conflict of interest. That's

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Speaker 2: how dramatically different, you know, his view of the responsibilities

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Speaker 2: of the presidency were versus Trump and the Trump family.

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Speaker 2: I mean Trump cashing in with live golf, Jared Kushner

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Speaker 2: getting two billion dollars from the Saudist. The list goes

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Speaker 2: on and on. And you had David Seroa pointing out

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Speaker 2: that another area where Carter was very clearly outspoken in

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Speaker 2: a way that you just don't see from any of

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Speaker 2: the other living American presidents is on money in politics.

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Speaker 2: And he says he was the one ex president of

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Speaker 2: the modern air to openly admit and lament the truth

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Speaker 2: about what America has become in the post Citizens United

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Speaker 2: era National Press Corp. Probably won't mention this, but it

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Speaker 2: was really something. Jimmy Carter said, US is an oligarchy

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Speaker 2: with unlimited political bribery, and you know, and really sounded

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Speaker 2: off against the Citizens United ruling, which was one of

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Speaker 2: a number of Supreme Court rulings that really opened the

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Speaker 2: floodgates of huge money and politics, the likes of which

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Speaker 2: were not possible in the past and which have reached,

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Speaker 2: you know, unbelievable new dystopian heights, with Elon Musk in particular,

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Speaker 2: putting in a court more than a quarter of a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars into this last presidential campaign and basically expecting

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Speaker 2: to run the government and achieve whatever policies that he

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Speaker 2: wants to achieve, not the guy that just got elected,

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Speaker 2: but that he wants to achieve. And so, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's that's been a long time coming, and obviously both

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Speaker 2: parties have decided to fully embrace big money in politics.

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Speaker 2: But it's also noteworthy that, you know, as Jimmy Carter

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Speaker 2: officially exits the scene, you know, we've reached a new,

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Speaker 2: i think undeniable peak of American oligarchy that is quite disturbing,

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Speaker 2: and you know, has clearly now not just disturbing lefties

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Speaker 2: like me, but plenty of people within the MAGA coalition

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Speaker 2: who are saying, you know what, this is actually really

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Speaker 2: a problem.

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Speaker 3: Totally, and it's for Jimmy Carter so and again, who

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Speaker 3: was born in the nineteen twenties. We sort of had

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Speaker 3: this voice from the past, and he was a relic

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Speaker 3: of a different era, and I think that's kind of

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Speaker 3: what's disturbing reflecting on his life is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: there were many, many, deep, deep imperfections in the United

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Speaker 3: States of America throughout his life, some of which have

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Speaker 3: gotten dramatic better. But the political system. You know that

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Speaker 3: he's kind of a voice of moral clarity I think

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Speaker 3: from the past, and a lot of conservatives would tell

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Speaker 3: me that's crazy. But from this sort of like populist

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Speaker 3: perspective about the American political system, he was able to

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Speaker 3: see it a little bit more clearly from his vantage point.

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Speaker 3: And it's it's a sorry contrast with where things are today.

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Speaker 3: As you mentioned, like the Trump organization, Eric Trump right

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Speaker 3: now just broker to deal in Saudi Arabia for like

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Speaker 3: a giant tower, I mean, like a completely different level

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Speaker 3: at this point. Yeah, So the Obamas are out making

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Speaker 3: Netflix documentaries and cashing it that don't make any money,

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Speaker 3: but are you know, worth millions to Netflix because well

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Speaker 3: it's the Obamas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Carter was also apparently the last Democrat to win

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Speaker 2: a majority of counties in the presidential election. Usually Democrats

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Speaker 2: in the modern era, they sort of run up the

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Speaker 2: score in the cities. But you're we're all used to

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Speaker 2: seeing the map where many of the rural areas are Republican.

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Speaker 2: Now all of the rural areas are Republican, and so

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Speaker 2: you know, it's a very different Democratic coalition at that point.

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Speaker 2: I would say that some of the neoliberal policies that

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Speaker 2: he helps to usher in, the trucking deregulation, the airline deregulation,

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Speaker 2: ultimately the attacks on unions, all of that shift away

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Speaker 2: from the New Deal era is a big part of

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Speaker 2: the story of why Democrats lose so much of the country,

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Speaker 2: lose so many of these you know, rural areas and

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Speaker 2: rural states. And he really, you know, starts the trend

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Speaker 2: in that direction, and the door on that era has

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Speaker 2: been you know, officially, I guess slam shut here with

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Speaker 2: with Trump retaking the White House. So in any place

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Speaker 2: in any case, rest in peace, Jimmy Carter, and we

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Speaker 2: can go ahead and move on to what's going on

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Speaker 2: with Elon Musk and Donald Trump and Laura Lumer and

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Speaker 2: all these characters.

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Speaker 3: Well, Crystal, it's a great day for Sager to be gone,

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Speaker 3: because not only do we have a significant moment in

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Speaker 3: presidential history, but we also have this roiling skirmish and

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Speaker 3: MAGA world over h one B Visus, and we know

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Speaker 3: that Sager has so little to say about both of

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Speaker 3: these topics.

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Speaker 2: As Indian Americans and they're placed in the country. Very

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Speaker 2: few thoughts on any of these topics.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and about American culture and Silicon Valley, so nothing

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Speaker 3: to worry about. We will do our best to channel

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Speaker 3: Sager's energy, if not his ideology. We do have a

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Speaker 3: little bit of Sager's thoughts to share with everyone because

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Speaker 3: he made some excellent points which will surprise nobody. But

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Speaker 3: right now, Magaworld is, as we just alluded to, absolutely riven.

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Speaker 3: And this is not a media narrative. This is a

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Speaker 3: significant division just to be meta for a moment. We're

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Speaker 3: not in any way you making this sound worse than

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Speaker 3: it is. This is a very significant division in sort

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Speaker 3: of Trump World and we've seen that just on Elon

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Speaker 3: Musk's X feed itself over the last couple of days.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to start with kind of the basics here.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to share a little tear sheet so that

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Speaker 3: you can see what some of the coverage has looked

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Speaker 3: like over the last couple of days. Actually, really this

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Speaker 3: has been going on for a while, but this all

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Speaker 3: started when Donald Trump announced the appointment of somebody who

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Speaker 3: is supportive of H one B visas to his new

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Speaker 3: administration shortly before Christmas. And if you've been following this,

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Speaker 3: if you're on Twitter, what you saw was immediately a

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Speaker 3: major divide open up between people who support H one

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Speaker 3: B visas and people who don't. And this sounds like

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Speaker 3: maybe a minor wonky set of differences among Donald Trump's circle,

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Speaker 3: but what it was actually doing was pitting Elon Musk

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Speaker 3: and Vivek Ramaswami and people like David Sachs, another person

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Speaker 3: who has been actually formally appointed to a post in

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Speaker 3: the incoming Trump administration, against the quote unquote like America

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Speaker 3: First World, the Stephen Miller camp of people who thought, listen,

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Speaker 3: this was going to be the administration that is serious

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Speaker 3: about actually cracking down on the sort of foreign labor

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Speaker 3: competing with domestic labor. And so Donald Trump a couple

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Speaker 3: of days into this, you can see the dateline on

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Speaker 3: this is December twenty eighth, comes out and says I

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Speaker 3: have many h one B visas on my properties, which, Crystal,

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Speaker 3: is probably the funniest way for Donald Trump to wait

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Speaker 3: into this debate, to be honest, But people were with

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Speaker 3: baited breath. You had Elon Musk tweeting ceaselessly for a

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Speaker 3: couple of days. Again, going into Christmas, Laura Lumer jumped

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Speaker 3: in on this and we're going to basically break this

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Speaker 3: all down. We have Rocanna, Congressman Rocanna, who's been roped

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Speaker 3: into this as well because this is an issue that

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Speaker 3: he's worked on and was invoked by Laura Lumer at

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Speaker 3: one point, going to join the show and break some

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Speaker 3: of this down for us as well. But this opened

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Speaker 3: up a massive fight in Maga world essentially, and Elon

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Speaker 3: Musk and Donald Trump are on the same side of

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Speaker 3: it now. So Crystal, this is a big chunk that's

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Speaker 3: been happening.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 3: Again, this pre dates Christmas by a couple of days,

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Speaker 3: but it is still raging. This is. It seems like

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Speaker 3: it's about to carry into the new year and into

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Speaker 3: the new administration, which is now some serious baggage to

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Speaker 3: deal with. Tell me, as somebody on the left who's

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Speaker 3: watching this play out over the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: what your reaction has been to it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that it sparked

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Speaker 2: such a war, because it really does get at like

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Speaker 2: a foundational question of how you see the world, and

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Speaker 2: the campaign kind of glossed over some of these differences.

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Speaker 2: But I think you and I and Sager and Ryan

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Speaker 2: have been talking about some of the very clear ideological differences,

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Speaker 2: especially between Elon Musk, David Sachs, veg Ramaswami, the sort

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Speaker 2: of new tech bro coalition, and the Trumpest view of

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Speaker 2: the world as it's been presented to the electorate. Now

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Speaker 2: careful about how I say that, because obviously Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: is decided with the globalist here. So what is trump

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Speaker 2: Ism is always a little bit up for debate, But effectively,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Trump narrative of the world is that

437
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: you are struggling and you are getting screwed because of

438
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 2: immigrants and quote unquote cultural leads, basically trans people, gender

439
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: ideology like things coming out of Hollywood that you don't

440
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 2: like and you don't think are the right values or

441
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: direction for your family. But immigrants are a big, big

442
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: part of that story of why Trump is telling you

443
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: that you're struggling and you're screwed. That is a break

444
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: from the traditional Republican message of if you're struggling, it's

445
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: because you or in this instance, your culture is failed, failing,

446
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: flawed in some way, So pull yourself up by your bootstraps,

447
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: get it together, and effectively what you have in this

448
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: proxy war over the H one B visas is a

449
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: clash between these two worldviews. You know, Trump is, like

450
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: I said, his ideology can be sort of hard to

451
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: pin down at times because the truth of the matter

452
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: is when he governed last time, he basically governed as

453
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: like a Paul Ryan Republican with some exceptions, you know,

454
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 2: tariff policy certainly being an exception there. But his biggest

455
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: accomplishment is this giant tax cut for the rich, very

456
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: traditional standard Heritage Foundation type of Republican.

457
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: Policy, literal Paul Ryan tax plan.

458
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was actually literally crafted by Paul Ryan. However,

459
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: you know, in having this different narrative and story that

460
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 2: he's selling that was a break from the way that

461
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 2: Republicans had traditionally talked about economic issues. Elon is much

462
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 2: more actually ideological. He's a fan of Javier Malay. He

463
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: has been talking about how he wants to slash two

464
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: trillion dollars from the budget. He believes that there needs

465
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 2: to be this level of quote unquote pain among the public. Obviously,

466
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 2: cutting two trillion dollars from the budget is going to

467
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: necessitate significant cuts to Social Security and Medicare programs that

468
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: Trump has always pledged that he wouldn't touch. He also

469
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: went out and you know, was praising Javier Malay for

470
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: rolling back tariffs. Trump always obviously is in love with tariffs,

471
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: and his embraced tariffs more than ever before, at least

472
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: in terms of his rhetoric. So, you know, ideologically, there's

473
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: always been this huge divide between Musk and his pretty

474
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: clear like kind of anarcho capitalist ideology and the way

475
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: that trump Ism has been sold to the magabase. So

476
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 2: that's where this really comes to a head, because what

477
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: Musk and Vivek Ramaswami and all of them are saying

478
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: is effectively.

479
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, we've got a problem.

480
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 2: With illegal immigrants. But actually we love legal immigrants. We

481
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: want more immigrants in the country, and specifically for Elon Musk,

482
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: he wants more workers that he can pay lower wages

483
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: and that who are completely beholden to him, because that's

484
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: you know, as a lefty, who does you know want

485
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: more immigration in this country. I think we should have

486
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 2: more legal immigrants. I believe that it's good for everyone.

487
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: Is certainly good for those immigrants themselves. I have issues

488
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: with the H one B program because it is so

489
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: exploitative of those workers, and it is damaging to the

490
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 2: American tech workers as well, because if you look at

491
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: the numbers people who are brought in these quote unquote

492
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: high skilled workers who are brought in on H one

493
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: B visas, number one, they're paid less and number two,

494
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: if you don't play ball with your employer and they

495
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: fire you, you get deported. So I agree with the

496
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: cultures and the Steve Bannons of the world when they

497
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: say this is effectively a program of indentured servitude. But

498
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: you know, as the world's richest man and a huge

499
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: capitalist who also, by the way, gets massive government subsidies.

500
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, all of those goodies.

501
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 3: Well, H one B kind of is a government subsidi.

502
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: That's one hundred percent true. That is one hundred percent true.

503
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: He is looking out for him his own capitalist interest

504
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: and this is a huge issue among the tech not

505
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: just the tech right, just among the tech sector tech

506
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: capitalist period. Which is why when Trump went on the

507
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 2: All In podcast, which is like the Tech Broke podcast

508
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: back several months ago during the campaign, Yosager took a

509
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: mediate note of the fact that Trump offered up in

510
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: that interview. Hey, I think if you graduate from any

511
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: college in this country, you should have a green cart

512
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: a stapled to your degree. That was clearly something he was,

513
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: you know, knew he needed to give to that community

514
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 2: in order to take in the hundreds of millions of

515
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: dollars and the political support that he ultimately got from them.

516
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: So you know, he chose his side quite a while ago.

517
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: So it doesn't surprise me here that in the end

518
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: he decides to side with Elon Musk because look that

519
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty million dollars plus that Elon threw

520
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: unto the campaign, Like that wasn't for free. This is

521
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: a key issue for him. He's going to get what

522
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: he wants because he effectively bought his way into this government.

523
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: Well, what's funny is what you said earlier about this

524
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 3: also being a key issue for Donald Trump. The rhetoric

525
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: that Donald Trump used repeatedly in his twenty sixteen campaign

526
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: and his twenty twenty campaign, throughout his presidency and since

527
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: about immigration has actually captured a sentiment that is is

528
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 3: not false. It's not rooted in some false narrative. It

529
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: is absolutely true. I mean that you can look at

530
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: all of the Cato Institute studies, et cetera, et cetera,

531
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: but you could also listen to people like Orange Cass

532
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: who make the plan, or Bernie Sanders Sanders circa like

533
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, who make the point play in this

534
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: day that when you are creating so much unfair competition

535
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: for American workers, meaning people who can be paid less,

536
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 3: you're going to naturally depress the wages. Now, whether or

537
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: not that is made up in different sectors of the

538
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: economy is a different question. But when you are bringing

539
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: H one B visa people into the country to do

540
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: sort of mid range coding, whatever it is, Elon Musk

541
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: has been tweeting again sort of relentlessly about how this

542
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,239
Speaker 3: is not work that Americans want to do. It's sort

543
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: of the work that allows us to attract foreign labor

544
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: like a magnet. It's great for tech, and then these

545
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: people sort of stay and bring their talents into the

546
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 3: United States. And obviously there's room for some of that,

547
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: but it is also disincentivizing the creation of or it's

548
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 3: disincentivizing Americans from going into the middle of those ladders too.

549
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: And what really the middle I'm talking about, like the

550
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: ladder of career work. Now this let's put this. I'm

551
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: about to share this Laura Lumer tweet since we mentioned

552
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: her because she was sort of instrumental in making this

553
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: a viral debate, because not surprisingly, it's got very personal

554
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 3: right away, obviously we mentioned Sharam Krishnan, who was appointed

555
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: as the Senior Policy Advisor for Artificial Intelligence at the

556
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: White House, and well, I think in an AI position,

557
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: it's natural that you have some oversight actually over the

558
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: administration's policies on things like H one B. So Lumer

559
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: tweets deeply disturbing to see thet his appointment as senior

560
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: policy advisor. It's alarming to see the number of career

561
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: leftists who are now being appointed to serving Trump's admin

562
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: When they share views that are in direct opposition to

563
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: Trump's America First agenda. So that just absolutely kicks it

564
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 3: off because she's quoting krishan on saying anything to remove

565
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 3: country caps for green card slash unlocked skilled immigration would

566
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 3: be huge in response to an Elon Musk tweet about Doge.

567
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: So then I am now going to share vi vik Ramaswami.

568
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 4: Who I mean, it's just where really get interesting.

569
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: This is the gasoline on the fire. So it's already

570
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: a significant sort of internecine battle in Maga world. But

571
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: then vivike Ramaswami comes in with this very interesting and

572
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: very long post on X. If you're watching this you

573
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: can see that I'm just scrolling through it. I would

574
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: estimate off the top of my head it's like two

575
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty words. This is the day after Christmas.

576
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 3: Laura Lumer was like going after Rocanna whatever, like literally

577
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: on Christmas, which we'll talk about. But the key part

578
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: of this viviaq Ramaswami tweet is where he says it's

579
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: all goes back to the quote Seaword Crystal, did you

580
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 3: say that? He said that? It's a key part of

581
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 3: it comes down to the sea word culture, So this

582
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: is OK. That seaword. Yeah, I don't know what you

583
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: were thinking of, Crystal, But he says, tough questions demand

584
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: tough answers, and if we're really serious about fixing the problem,

585
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: we have to confront the capital t truth. Our American

586
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 3: culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long.

587
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 3: He then goes on to say a culture that venerates

588
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: Corey for Boy Meets World, there's Zack and Slater over

589
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: Screech and saved by the Bell, he will not produce

590
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: the best engineers. He's also talking about Rkle and family matters.

591
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: He goes on to talk about Friends. He says, more

592
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: movies like Whiplash, fewer reruns of Friends, which is incredibly

593
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: offensive to me but probably other people too, but mostly me.

594
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: Then he said, more books, less TV, more creating, less

595
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: quote unquote chilling, more extracurriculars less quote unquote hanging out

596
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: at the mall. He sounds like a parent in like

597
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: a nineteen ninety five. He sounds like the dad in

598
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: uh clueless. Actually, CHRISTI I was gonna say, like think

599
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: of it.

600
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 4: I it was better.

601
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: This is one of I have many things to say

602
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: about this, But one of the things that really triggered

603
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: me here is, like I have a teenager.

604
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 4: They don't hang out at the mall.

605
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: It was better when we had the nineties mall culture

606
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: because at least kids were like together, irl and had

607
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: some sort of something community. I mean, yes, it's based

608
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: on this like you know, gross consumerism, but at least

609
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: there was some sort of community. Actually, now the smartphone

610
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: culture is, which is I guess, you know, sort of

611
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 2: closer to what Vague wants here of being you know,

612
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: constantly on your device and being you know, buried in

613
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: buried in tech world is way worse than when they

614
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 2: were watching these sitcoms, which had lots of like family

615
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: and sort of like basic morality community values associated with them.

616
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 2: When they're watching those sitcoms and hanging out at the mall.

617
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: That's one of many issues I take with us anyway,

618
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: Percy Emily.

619
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know we're going to get in all

620
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: of Mexican We have a soccer tweet, but it is

621
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: it echoes something that you actually heard from JD Vance

622
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: and hillbiliology that he's since kind of recanted, this critique

623
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 3: of American culture, critique of the sort of white working class.

624
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: It echoes a lot of the rhetoric that Donald Trump

625
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 3: again was pretty instrumental in shifting the way Republicans at

626
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: least talked, if not thought, about those issues. So let's share.

627
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: This is Elon Musk. He says, the reason I'm in

628
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: America this is on December twenty seventh, along with so

629
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 3: many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of

630
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: other companies that made America strug is because of h

631
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 3: one B. Take a big step back and fuck yourself

632
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 3: in the face. I will go to war on this issue,

633
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 3: the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. He's channeling

634
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder there, as a lot of

635
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: people have pointed out. But take a big step back.

636
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: He also he also agreed with a post that called

637
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: the mega people who were disagreeing with him retards and

638
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 2: said that these people, I mean, it's very Hillary Clinton

639
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: deplorables like taken to the umpteenth level. And you know,

640
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 2: to go back to the vags tweet, which I think

641
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: is really important to unpack for a variety of reasons.

642
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: Not only does it echo so it echoes Mitt Romney

643
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: forty seven percent, Yes, it echoes makers and takers, it

644
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 2: echoes Hillary Clinton deplorables. That's the language you're talking about,

645
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: which has been a shared view among Republican Democratic elites,

646
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: especially with regards to the white working class in particular.

647
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: And so you know, to go out again. This is like,

648
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: this is to me the core battle to say no.

649
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: If you're having a problem, like if you're struggling, it's

650
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: your fault. It's because you watch too many sitcomps, because

651
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: you indulged in sleepovers and having friends when you should

652
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: have been doing math tutoring. And by the way, you're

653
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: screwing up your kids too because you don't have them

654
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 2: in the like math Olympics every weekend. And your values,

655
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: this is the core part. Your values are the wrong values.

656
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: The only values that you should care about is having

657
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: your kids in this extremely high stress rat race from

658
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 2: birth where if every moment isn't spent developing their capabilities

659
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: so that they can deliver shareholder value for the elon

660
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: Musks of the world, then you're failing. So it's not

661
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: only an attack on American culture, and I think specifically

662
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 2: on white working class culture, which is extraordinary given you

663
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 2: just had this massive like education realignment and non college

664
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: educated voters overwhelmingly going for Republicans. It's not only attack

665
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 2: on that culture, it's an attack on any value that's

666
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: not just about delivering market share in a aggressive capitalist system.

667
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 2: And that, to me is what was extraordinary.

668
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: Now.

669
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: I mean for me, I like I have issues with

670
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: the H one B program as constructed. I obviously disagree

671
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: with both of these sides because I think all of this,

672
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: whether you're blaming people and their culture or whether you're

673
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: blaming immigrants, I think the real problem is point up

674
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: at the Elon musk veig Ramaswami and Donald Trump's of

675
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: the world, the billionaire oligarchs who have rigged the system

676
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: to screw you and to benefit themselves. I think that's

677
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: where the bulk of the blame needs to go. But

678
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: the reason this was so extraordinary is because it really

679
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: was a direct attack on especially white, non college educated voters,

680
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: and frankly, a lot many many people pointed out that

681
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: it's also the type of cultural critique that has been

682
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: consistently leveled from Republicans at Black Americans. Basically like, oh,

683
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: you're struggling not because of historic racism, but because you're

684
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: too lazy and pull up your pants, et cetera. And

685
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 2: now it's being trained at white Americans, and that also

686
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: precipitated quite you know, quite a backlash and quite a

687
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 2: lot of sentiment around this whole conversation.

688
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: Yes, and it did listened, I think some genuine racism,

689
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 3: because you get this this sense from some people who

690
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 3: are out there defending Donald Trump that like, who are

691
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 3: you the vague to critique white culture? Like only only

692
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 3: whites can be mad about friends? Like how dare you

693
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: as an outsider? But I think, on an even more

694
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: serious note, so you just said something so important about

695
00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: how there's this idea of like so looking down maternalistically

696
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: on the white working class, on the white middle class,

697
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 3: even people who are going to college, who saying, I mean,

698
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 3: that's what's so insane about this is critiquing the American

699
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 3: culture while actually asking to import all of this foreign

700
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: labor to compete with people who are going into that grind.

701
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: As they're demanding you to stop watching friends start doing

702
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: stem as though you can't do both, but like basically

703
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 3: say more less sleepovers, more you know, like homework, whatever

704
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: it is.

705
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: And think about that, I mean, how much of you

706
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: thought about like, look, at team like depression and suicyber like.

707
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: If anything, teenagers need to be hanging out more with

708
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: friends and doing like the things that he is deriding here.

709
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: Yep. And then and then after you do all of that,

710
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: after you forsake all of the sleepovers and the hangouts whatever,

711
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 3: you're going to be compete with foreign labor that is

712
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 3: going to be paid less. So you're in an unfair competition.

713
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: And that has been happening for decades, and you and

714
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 3: I have seen it. People who get outside of the

715
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 3: Beltway have seen it. That has depressed, psychologically depressed the

716
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 3: American working class because it feels like it is all

717
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 3: for nothing when you are competing with people who came

718
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: here and claimed asylum. And you and I may disagree

719
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 3: on this, but it is like it's a real thing.

720
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 3: And are being paid cash under the table for this

721
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 3: landscaping job, and you're a landscaper and you cost them

722
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 3: more money, and it's unfair competition.

723
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I think we need more legal

724
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 2: immigration because when you do have undocumented workers, then yeah,

725
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: employers are going to skirt labor law. They're gonna pay

726
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: them under the table cash not have to pay the

727
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: additional benefits and protections, and yes, that creates unfair competition.

728
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: That's why, you know, like for example, with the just

729
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: to stick on H one B example, it's not that

730
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: I'm opposed to bringing in high skilled workers or immigrants.

731
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: I'm not opposed to that at all. But you can't

732
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 2: set up a program guest worker. Programs are inherently exploitative,

733
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: like if you are tied to your employer and if

734
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: you get fired, then you're deported. Like of course they

735
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 2: can abuse you in any myriad of ways and pay

736
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: you less and you know, screw you over, and that yes,

737
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 2: depresses wages across the board. So it's exploitative all the

738
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: way around in that instance. So you know, that's why

739
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: most of the studies show is even in when you

740
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: had like the Maurial boat lift and they had this

741
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: huge influx of Cuban migrants into Florida, it actually didn't

742
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: significantly impact the wages of the native born workforce. The

743
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: problem is when you have programs that are set up

744
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: such that they are inherently exploitative, and when you have

745
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: so few legal pathways for people to come into the

746
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 2: country that they're coming in in undocumented fashion and then yeah,

747
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 2: getting paid under the table and you know themselves getting

748
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 2: screwed and undercutting the local workforce as well.

749
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: Let's roll this clip of Steve Bannon, because it just

750
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: for a sense of where the battle lines have been drawn.

751
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: And I think how significant again this actually is. This

752
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: is this is not like, this is not the media

753
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 3: trying to create problems where there aren't problems. And you

754
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 3: can take it from Steve Bannon himself, who weighed in

755
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: on all this again, like it's not surprising. These battle

756
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 3: lines are not surprising, by the way. What is surprising

757
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 3: to me is how surprised Elon Muskin, like the sort

758
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 3: of David Sacks people were by this. So let's listen to.

759
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 8: Bannon then nastier tweets he put up last night about

760
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 8: MAGA being racist, which is the last refuge of a

761
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 8: scoundrel in modern politics, to to quote Andrew Breitbart via

762
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 8: Johnson right this last night we put up on the screen.

763
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 8: I appreciate it. This is Elon Musk. The reason I'm

764
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 8: in America, along with so many critical people who built SpaceX,

765
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 8: Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strong

766
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 8: is because of h one b take a big step

767
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 8: back in. F yourself all caps in the face. F

768
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 8: yourself in the face. I will go to war on

769
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 8: this issue, the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend.

770
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, tough guy, that you're going to go to

771
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 8: war on the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend.

772
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 8: You're you're a manchild. I hate to make it personal,

773
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 8: but what you have done is try to trash individuals

774
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 8: punching down. Remember the first rule a gladiator school, bro,

775
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 8: don't punch down. Be the punch a peer, a punch up,

776
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 8: I responded last night, someone please notify notify Child Protective

777
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 8: Services need to do a wellness check on this toddler.

778
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 8: I hate to be snarky, but I think the moment

779
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 8: called for it. When people come uph you got to

780
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 8: take the temperature. No, we're not going to take the

781
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 8: temperature down. We're not going to take the temperature down.

782
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 8: Oh no, oh no, oh no, we do not. It's

783
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 8: no backing down. It's doubling down. It's no retreat. It's

784
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 8: fixed by NEETs in its advance, and it's not surrender.

785
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 8: It's victory. We're going to win this. Let me repeat.

786
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 8: The H one B VISA program is a total incomplete

787
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 8: scam concocted by the lords of easy money on Wall Street,

788
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 8: in the Ola Garks in Silicon Valley to both initially

789
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 8: to just increase profit margins, but there's a darker element

790
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 8: to it today, a contempt of America and American citizens,

791
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 8: and we're not going to tolerate it.

792
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 3: Crystal. Again, that's like a sample of what's been happening,

793
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 3: and imagine what's been happening behind closed doors over the

794
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 3: last few days. But this is a hugely, hugely significant divide.

795
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 3: He invoked the term oligarchs. It was always going to

796
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: be tense to have the oligarchs allegedly fixing the problem

797
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: of oligarchy that Steve Bannon has his fixed banets on

798
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: and has sort of rallied the Mega Coalition to take on.

799
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 3: In Elon Musk's ex bio right now, it says, you know,

800
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: the people voted for significant government reform. Yes, they voted

801
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 3: actually for significant government reform so that we no longer

802
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 3: function as an oligarchy. But the oligarchs, who understand that

803
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 3: the public wants significant government reform, are much less comfortable

804
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: with significantly reforming what functions as an oligarchy. When it

805
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 3: serves them because for some reasons that are sinister and

806
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: some that are just natural, they don't see themselves necessarily

807
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 3: as oligarchs in a pejorative sense. They see themselves a

808
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: lot away. A lot of the leftist oligarchs see themselves

809
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 3: as the sort of benevolent overlords who know what's best

810
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 3: for the people out there watching friends and you know,

811
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 3: eating bond bonds or whatever it is. And it makes

812
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 3: it really difficult, makes it very difficult to sort of

813
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 3: actually go full maga when you are an oligarch. And

814
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 3: again that has always been clear. We have been very

815
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: clear about that on this show in our coverage. But

816
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: again behind closed doors, these tensions have simmered, but never

817
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 3: I think bubbled over in the way we've seen.

818
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't really know why people thought they

819
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: were voting against oligarchy when you have the most like

820
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: this is by far the number of billionaires in Trump's

821
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: administration now it's over a dozen. You knew coming in

822
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: that Elon Musk was basically bankrolling, you know, a large

823
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: chunk of the entire campaign in a way that is

824
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 2: truly of an order of magnitude different than we've ever

825
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: seen from either party ever in the in the past,

826
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 2: you know, you probably have to go back to like

827
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: like you Morgan to uh to really see this level

828
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: of just oligarch control over the country and over the

829
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: administration to see anything that is even approaches a parallel

830
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: with Elon Musk. And it's not like this was hidden.

831
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: This was clear, His ideology was clear, his influence, his

832
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: whole of government mandate through Doge, all of this was

833
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 2: really spelled out. And so you know, now you've got

834
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: Trump like, yeah, I'm with Elon. I'm with Elon. I

835
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: made that, I made the the deal was made months ago,

836
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: and he's going to get what he wants. So since

837
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: that has happened, since Trump has said, yeah, I'm on

838
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: the side of the oligarchs. These are my guys, and

839
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: they're going to get their way. Do I see a

840
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 2: hue and cry from the you know, the MAGA base. No,

841
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 2: not really, because it's never Trump's fault. It's always you know,

842
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: oh he was manipulated, Oh this or that, lots of

843
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: there's lots of cope in the timeh maybe he didn't

844
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: really mean it the way that the media portrayed it.

845
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: The other cope from the David Sacks, the world is like, oh, well,

846
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: you know, we're really not that far apart, and this

847
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: is all just like a left wing sigh up to

848
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: drive a wedge between us, because you know, in some ways,

849
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: I think this cake is already baked, and I think

850
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: Elon is going to get his way on anything that

851
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: Elon really significantly wants, because that is the deal that

852
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: was made here.

853
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and since Crystal mentioned David Sacks, so you can

854
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: look at this post he put on ax Elon I

855
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 3: said that H one B should be overhauled, that it

856
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 3: should focus on exceptional talent and high value areas, and

857
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: that the scamson low paid jobs should end. This is

858
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: not to say there aren't still differences, but less than

859
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: it first appeared. Time to move forward as one team.

860
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: Definitely cope, Crystal, because basically the Bannon position is still

861
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 3: I think mutually exclusive with that position, and this question

862
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 3: becomes what a level priority it is. So let's go

863
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 3: back to Sagur here, because as promised, we want to

864
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: bring him in. And this is sort of again it's

865
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: a hobby horse of his. He says, I will split

866
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 3: the difference with the fig the reason that Indians and

867
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 3: other successful minorities in the US succeed is by blending

868
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: the culture of hard work and familia dedication with the

869
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 3: American spirit of dynamism born from the founders and the

870
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 3: frontier spirit pure Asian culture encourages wrote memorization, conformity, et cetera,

871
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 3: et cetera. He says, the culture I want to venerate

872
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 3: is the American culture which beat the Axis powers in

873
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 3: World War two, peak Sager, it had important institutional checks

874
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: against hedonism, et cetera, et cetera. And he says the

875
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 3: best way to recreate that culture is an immigration moratorium,

876
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 3: as we did in the early nineteen hundred and nineteen hundreds.

877
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 3: And then he goes on to say, I'll end with

878
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 3: the plea to Americans of Indian descent reject the growing

879
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 3: calls for Indian identity politics or DEI slash wokeness by

880
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 3: another name. So, Chrystal, I think there's a lot we

881
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: could do two hours a two hour segment basically on

882
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 3: all of this drama, and Sager might still force you

883
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 3: to at some point, but it is genuinely fascinating because

884
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 3: it's this it's just this critique of the culture and

885
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 3: immigration at the same time as like a lot of

886
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: it's coming very top down, and the sort of down

887
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 3: up part is being stifled by the down up. Candidate

888
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: President elective should say, well, I.

889
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 2: Don't want to go see hard On soccer when he's

890
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 2: not here. He and I can fight this out when

891
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 2: he gets back. But I think a lot of this

892
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 2: cultural talk is like mumbo jumbo, like invented mumbo jumbo,

893
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: and policy like to me, culture is largely downstream of policy,

894
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: and usually when politicians are talking about culture, it's a

895
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 2: way for them to escape accountability for their own policy

896
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 2: decisions and their own corrupt dealings, which are the more

897
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: proximate and certainly more controllable source of so much pain

898
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: in the public. So, you know, when you have Hillary

899
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: Clinton to use someone that everyone watching the show will

900
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: find to be villainous when she's talking about deplorables, it's like,

901
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: screw you, lady, Like your husband's the one who didn't

902
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: have to and shift the jobs overseas. You're the ones

903
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: that's supporting supported you know, PNTR and supports the Transpecific

904
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: Trade Partnership. You were happy to sell out the entire

905
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: industrial Midwest in order to you know, boost the profits

906
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: of giant multinational corporations. So how dare you look down

907
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: your nose and say we're failing because of some like

908
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: inherent character flaw or cultural flaw. Screw you like you

909
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: are the ones who crafted these policies that screwed the country,

910
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: vast loss of the country over in favor of American oligarchs.

911
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 2: And Elon Musk is well, he's not even I mean,

912
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 2: he's from South Africa, but he is one of those oligarchs.

913
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 2: This is he has one of He is one of

914
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 2: the largest Pentagon contractors. There may be no one in

915
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: history who has gotten richer off the American taxpayer than

916
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: South African born Elon Musk, who now has been put

917
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: in charge of the very government that is the only

918
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 2: thing that could check his abuses, exploitation and ambitions. So

919
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 2: you know, I obviously have been I've been trying to

920
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 2: talk about this for months now. I've been trying to

921
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 2: sound the alarm about Listen, even if you like Elon Musk,

922
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: imagine it's Jeff Bezos, Imagine it's Mark Zuckerberg, Imagine it's

923
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: Bill Gates.

924
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 4: Like, as a.

925
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,959
Speaker 2: Matter of principle, we have to reject oligarchs having full

926
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 2: and complete control of government, and that's basically where we

927
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: are now. And I think you know Trump on this issue,

928
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 2: he had already flipped on this issue, right, He already

929
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 2: signaled this during the campaign. He flipped on carried interest,

930
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 2: he flipped on crypto, he flipped on TikTok tik, which

931
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: we're about to get into, which I actually support the

932
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: new position. All of these things were not out of principle.

933
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: It's because that's where the money was, so that's where

934
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: he went. He has already thrown his lot in with

935
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: this direction of American oligarchy for the country. And I

936
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: think I don't care left right center. To me, it's

937
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: not a partisan or ideological issue. I think that is

938
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: deeply dystopian and disturbing and pretends really a very dark

939
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: direction for American democracy.

940
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 3: And I'll just finally split the difference with Sager, splitting

941
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 3: the difference, which is that I think the public does

942
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 3: have agency, and this is where jd. Vance sort of

943
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: flipped himself, and that he was sort of pointing the

944
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 3: finger at the white working class and saying this is

945
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 3: a sort of it's similar to what the critique Republicans

946
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 3: have made for a long time of the inner city

947
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 3: black working classes that you just aren't pulling yourself up

948
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 3: by your bootstraps and you can. And again, like I

949
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 3: just think people do have agency. But I also think

950
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 3: that the problems in our culture have been stirred from

951
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 3: the top down. So if you want to start saying

952
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 3: that there's a problem with American culture, you should actually

953
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 3: look at how the oligarchs. I you would talk about

954
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 3: this in terms of a lot of different things like

955
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: marriage is an example, or childry. Like we don't have

956
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 3: to get into all of it, but like, let's not

957
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 3: pretend that these TV shows aren't bankrolled, by the way,

958
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 3: by people like Steve Bannon who bankrolled Seinfeld. Maybe that's

959
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: what this one is actually all about, Crystal. He is

960
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: very personally offended that they can invoked sitcom culture in America,

961
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 3: But I mean, in all seriousness, like the culture is

962
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 3: very It's gotten a little bit more democratic because of

963
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 3: things like TikTok, but it was very much dictated by

964
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 3: like all the Garks. So on that note, Crystal, we

965
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 3: have Congressman Rocanna here to help us break some of

966
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 3: this down as well, because he was evoked, as we

967
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, by Laura Lumer and has been waiting into

968
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 3: the debate. Let's get to that, all right, guys.

969
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,479
Speaker 2: So we are very fortunate to be joined this morning

970
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 2: by Congressman Rocanna, who actually represents Silicon Valley and was

971
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 2: also catching quite a number of stories in this whole

972
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 2: elon musk Laura Lumer Maga versus the tech tech bro.

973
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: Great to have you, congresson, Great to be on.

974
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,720
Speaker 9: Happy holidays to everyone watching.

975
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, same to you. Let me go and put this

976
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 4: up on the screen.

977
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 2: This is from your friend Laura Lumer, who had some

978
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 2: choice words about you and this individual that Trump has

979
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: named as his I guess quote unquote ai Zar. So

980
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: she says, Democrat congress and Rocanna from the leftist Silicon

981
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: Valley and migrant dominated hellhole known as California, wants to

982
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 2: gaslight anyone in everyone who poses h one b visas

983
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: and tech bros who are infiltrating the Trump admin. Rowe,

984
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: why aren't you disclosing the fact that Surium Krishnan is

985
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: one of your donors? That's the new incoming, ais are

986
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 2: You're a Democrat with big tech donors who love mass migration.

987
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 2: He gave your Democrat congressional campaign a donation of thirty

988
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars and twenty three thirty three hundred dollars

989
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 2: in twenty four, less than one month before the presidential election.

990
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: Of course, you're defending the big tech bros who serve

991
00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 2: as your sugar daddies. You are corrupt. Here are the receipts, Congressman.

992
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 2: Your response to this attack, well.

993
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 5: Laura Lumer had attacked Indian Americans when Kamala Harris was running,

994
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 5: saying that we can't put an Indian American in the

995
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 5: White House. I had suggested that she come to the

996
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 5: White House when Kamala Harris would win and have Masala

997
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 5: Chai with me. Unfortunately, Harris didn't win, or I would

998
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 5: have left to have had Masala Chai with Laura Lumer.

999
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 5: But you know, she attacked me for having contributions from

1000
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 5: Shrram and I replied saying, yes, he contributed to my campaign.

1001
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 5: And he has an extraordinary story. I mean, he's an

1002
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 5: immigrant who came to this country in two thousand and seven.

1003
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 5: He's become a citizen, he's contributed, he started companies, and

1004
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 5: we should be proud of the fact that people from

1005
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 5: around the world, the best and brightest, want to come

1006
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 5: to the United States.

1007
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 3: And when that comes to the H one BBS's, which

1008
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 3: obviously were the sort of policy niche that kicked off

1009
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 3: this huge internescing conflict that's royal mag world over the

1010
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 3: last couple of weeks, Congressman. The allegation is that they

1011
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 3: depress American wages because you're able to pay people on

1012
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 3: the H one b visas less than you would pay Americans,

1013
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 3: and it becomes almost a system of indentured servitude. But

1014
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 3: this is something that a lot of people in your

1015
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 3: circles feel very strongly about. Elon Musk himself obviously came

1016
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 3: out and came out swinging and said he will defend

1017
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 3: these programs to his dying breath because he feels so

1018
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 3: strongly that they are examples of sort of what you

1019
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 3: were just talking about, the way this country is a

1020
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 3: magnet for talent from around the world and people who

1021
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 3: are then sort of become part of the American melting pot,

1022
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 3: et cetera. So where do You've talked about this a lot,

1023
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: But where do you fall on the H one bvs

1024
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: is amidst all of those allegations swirling in Trump.

1025
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 5: World, Well, I think that there has been abuse of

1026
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 5: the H one B visas. There's no doubt that there

1027
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 5: has been abuse where people are paid below market wages

1028
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 5: and that undercuts Americans and you basically have no freedom.

1029
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 9: If you're here on an H one B visa and.

1030
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 5: You leave your employer, then you also are going to

1031
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 5: lose your status in this country. And there have been

1032
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 5: several companies, particularly IT outsourcing firms that have abused it

1033
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 5: significantly and they're getting a large chunk of the lotteries.

1034
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 5: The other thing is that while it's capped at eighty

1035
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 5: five thousand, a lot of exemptions are granted, and so

1036
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 5: you really have three hundred four hundred thousand being granted.

1037
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 5: And so I have said that we need reform, and

1038
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 5: I'm actually when I first got to Congress my first

1039
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 5: year in Congress twenty seventeen, god on Bill Press Grello

1040
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 5: unfortunately has passed away bipartisan reform bill with Grassley and

1041
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 5: Durbin and Paul Gossar. Let's make sure that you're not

1042
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 5: underpaying H one B visa folks, you're not manipulating things

1043
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 5: so that entry level positions are being granted H one b's.

1044
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 5: It's really supposed to be for exceptional talent and that's

1045
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 5: not the case, but that doesn't mean that we're not

1046
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 5: for immigrants coming to the United States, and really immigrants

1047
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 5: are contributing, should be given a green card process of

1048
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 5: expediting green cards so that you don't have this situation

1049
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 5: of leverage.

1050
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: What did you make, Congressman of the vak Ramaswami's long

1051
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: post about American cultural mediocrity and how we need to

1052
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: have fewer sleepovers, more math tutoring, less hanging out at

1053
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 2: the mall, less Boy meets World, more math, Olympics, less TV,

1054
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: more books, etcetera, etcetera. Do you think that Americans have

1055
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 2: and I think this was aimed in particular at the

1056
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: American white working class, do you think that they embrace

1057
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 2: a culture of mediocrity?

1058
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 9: Absolutely not.

1059
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 5: I'd love to talk to him about his upbreaking I'll

1060
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 5: tell you about mine in Council Rocket High School at

1061
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 5: Pennsylvania because I was one of those nerds on the

1062
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 5: math mathletes, and I happened to be a valedictoria by

1063
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 5: local school.

1064
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 9: But I also played Little League.

1065
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,439
Speaker 5: And I was terrible at the plate, and every people

1066
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 5: said watch the bunt when I went up, but people said,

1067
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 5: everyone plays, you know, I mean that was the spirit.

1068
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 5: And I had friends who played football for Council Rock

1069
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 5: and friends who went into acting in music and what

1070
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 5: it would have been such a boring experience if everyone

1071
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 5: in my school was interested in becoming a math lete.

1072
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 5: That's that's part of the problem. So the school age

1073
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 5: in Silicon Valley now where it's like everyone's parents work

1074
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 5: at Google and everyone wants to go and do well

1075
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 5: at STEM. And I think what makes America extraordinary is that, yes,

1076
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 5: we have people who are doing interested in math, but

1077
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 5: we have people who are interested in music and the

1078
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 5: arts and the humanities and writing and sports, and that

1079
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 5: creates this vie culture and that should be celebrated. Then

1080
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 5: the results speak for themselves. I mean, look at all

1081
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 5: the Nobel laureates that we have in physics, in medicine

1082
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 5: and chemistry. Look at all the innovation. I mean, if

1083
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 5: I guess, my question for Vivik would be, if there

1084
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 5: was something so fundamentally flawed with American culture, how is

1085
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 5: it that we are continuing to produce incredible innovation.

1086
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 9: So it just seemed a little glib.

1087
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 5: It's something I disagree with, and I'm quite fond of

1088
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,439
Speaker 5: my upbringing, and I don't think there was too much

1089
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 5: emphasis on sports or music. I probably should have paid

1090
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 5: more attention to some of the music or to help

1091
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 5: me in politics work.

1092
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny you say that because when I

1093
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 2: was reading the vague description of what he thought, like

1094
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 2: the ideal childhood is, which is this, like you know,

1095
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 2: from the moment they're born, they got to get in

1096
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 2: the right preschool, and they got to be you know,

1097
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 2: trained in math and ready to take on their stem

1098
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: career and deliver shareholder value for whether it's Elon Musk

1099
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 2: or someone else. Actually, the people that I've seen raise

1100
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 2: their kids most like that was when I lived in Manhattan,

1101
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 2: and like wealthy Manhattan nights, who would be the type

1102
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: of people who are you know, engaged in like the

1103
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: Varsity Blues scandal, are so obsessed with First it's they

1104
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 2: got to be in the right play group, and then

1105
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: they got to be in the right preschool, and we

1106
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 2: got to have Latin tutoring, and they need to take

1107
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 2: up fencing because that's the place where you're most likely

1108
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: to get you know, a scholarship or get an edge

1109
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 2: in an Ivy League institution. And I've found it, frankly,

1110
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: kind of terrible, Like not because that there's any problem

1111
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 2: with wanting to create a lot of enrichment for your children,

1112
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 2: but it just seemed like the whole value of First

1113
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 2: of all, it's sort of erased any sort of just

1114
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 2: delight of childhood, right. And second of all, it really

1115
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 2: erased any values outside of what you can achieve as

1116
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 2: a market participant, right, friends, family, you know, like enjoying

1117
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 2: pop culture, contributing to your community. Those pieces were secondary

1118
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: to just like winning this high stakes rat race. And

1119
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: you know, I think I think part of what has

1120
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 2: been appealing about Trump to many people who you know,

1121
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 2: obviously I disagree with his view of the world and

1122
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: certainly his attacks on immigrants I find to totally miss

1123
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 2: the point of what the real problems are in America.

1124
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 2: But I think part of some of the language there

1125
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: has been about, you know, there's more to life and

1126
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 2: there's more to a society than just GDP growth. And

1127
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 2: the Vig's post to me was sort of a direct

1128
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 2: attack on, you know, on the idea that you could

1129
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 2: value something other than what your market value was and

1130
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 2: what you can contribute to overall GDP growth.

1131
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 9: That's very well put, Chris.

1132
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 5: I like, you know, a lot of my political sense

1133
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 5: to the extent I have any sense, I think about

1134
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 5: what were the kids growing up on my stream in

1135
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 5: Amsterdam Avenue, Bucks County think and there were kids who

1136
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 5: were kids of an electrician, of a nurse, if a teacher,

1137
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 5: of an HVAC technician, the guy who at the pool

1138
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 5: it was the sort of big vice president at some company.

1139
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 5: But we all were on the same street, and we

1140
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 5: all celebrated different holidays.

1141
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 9: We engaged and.

1142
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 5: You played together. And I think that what would very

1143
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 5: mystic is this, it's a community. I mean, the kids

1144
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 5: of the HVAC technician at Electrician were no less fulfilled

1145
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 5: or happy or contributing than the kids today or kids

1146
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 5: of Google executives. And if anything, there was probably more

1147
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 5: happiness on the street where I was I was growing up.

1148
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 9: But so if his point is that.

1149
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 5: America should make sure that we have a rigorous education

1150
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 5: and and and we should encourage education, of course, no

1151
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 5: one is going to deny that he.

1152
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 4: Wants to get rid of the Department of Education.

1153
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 3: But that's.

1154
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 9: But that's not what he's saying.

1155
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 5: And it looked it's musicians often and artists where the

1156
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 5: ones are going to question income inequality or it questions.

1157
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 9: Their social excesses.

1158
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 5: It's often athletes athletics where we have people regardless of class.

1159
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 9: It's one of the few things regardless.

1160
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 5: Of class, where oh, you're a forty nine Ers fan,

1161
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 5: it doesn't really matter whether you're the kid if a

1162
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 5: billionaire or the kid if a janitor. Your team is

1163
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 5: going to win. I mean, there's so few experiences in

1164
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 5: America that are class list. I guess even sports now

1165
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 5: you get whether you're in the suites or whether you

1166
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 5: go and actually watch a game from the stands, there's

1167
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 5: class introduced to it, but it's not like, you know,

1168
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 5: you flying has become totally about class, and you can

1169
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 5: live your life where you go to school, your friends

1170
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 5: are totally with a certain group of folks and economic

1171
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 5: class and sports cuts through that. So I think Vivik's

1172
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 5: not looking at all of the incredible things that sports

1173
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 5: and music bring to American society.

1174
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 3: I think we can all agree there are good faith

1175
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,439
Speaker 3: defenses of the H and B program that people make

1176
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 3: them in perfectly good faith, especially people with personal experience.

1177
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 3: But what the Steve Bannons of the world right now

1178
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 3: are saying is that the people in Silicon Valley, probably

1179
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 3: people in your district, Congressman who defend HM and bbs

1180
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: is so vigorously are coming to this with the perspective

1181
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 3: that is utterly cynical and self interested, and it really

1182
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 3: is about profit. It is about undercutting American labor. It's

1183
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 3: about sort of their bottom lines. So again, as somebody

1184
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 3: who sort of familiar with the people who are defending

1185
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 3: HEB so vigorously, is there something to what Steve Bannon

1186
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 3: is saying that this is something that is cynical and

1187
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 3: is about profit over the country itself.

1188
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 5: Steve Bannon had some valid criticisms of the program. You know,

1189
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 5: I probably maybe the headline of this, but you know,

1190
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 5: he's right that there are companies who are underpaying people

1191
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 5: coming from overseas, and that's not good, by the way,

1192
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 5: for the people they're bringing over because they're often trapped

1193
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 5: in these jobs being underpaid, and it's undermining American wages.

1194
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 5: And the other point I saw Steve make, which is

1195
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 5: true with some of these universities prioritize foreign students because

1196
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 5: they want to get the full pay for their tuition

1197
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 5: and we're not providing the same free public college to

1198
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 5: American students, and so you know, they're getting paid. Often

1199
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 5: these students are coming, they're either having the foreign governments

1200
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 5: pay a full freight, or they may have parents who

1201
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 5: are scrounging up and paying the full money, and then

1202
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 5: American students are not are being denied the opportunity in

1203
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 5: those universities.

1204
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 9: That's happening in California. So I think that anyone who's.

1205
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 5: Being fair about this should be calling for major reform

1206
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 5: on the H one B program. You could be pro

1207
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 5: immigrant and against exploitation, right, I mean, there's an issue

1208
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 5: about do we believe that we should attract immigrants to America?

1209
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 5: Of course, do we believe that we should exploit them

1210
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 5: to hurt American workers and labors now? And you can

1211
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 5: also be for education for all Americans and make understand

1212
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 5: that when you have wealthy foreign students coming and paying

1213
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 5: full freight, that that's not fair sometimes for American students.

1214
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 2: My last question for you, Congressman, is you've been sort

1215
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 2: of I don't want to mischaracterize. You can you can

1216
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 2: clarify if this isn't correct, But you've been open to

1217
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 2: certainly working with Elon Musk on Dode. You've been I

1218
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,760
Speaker 2: would say friendlier towards him than I have been. You know,

1219
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 2: one of the things that came out of this conversation too,

1220
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: is just the level of influence he's been able to

1221
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: buy with the Trumpet ministries. You know, Trump has now

1222
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 2: reversed his position on H one B's and obviously this

1223
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 2: was an issue that was really important to Elan. Elon's

1224
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 2: been given this entire hole of government mandate. He is

1225
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: one of the government's largest contractors. He has massive conflicts

1226
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 2: of interest. You know, what are your thoughts about rising

1227
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 2: oligarchy in America viz a vi Elon Musk?

1228
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I don't like it that billionaires

1229
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 5: can pay the kind of money they can and spend

1230
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 5: the kind of money they can to influence elections. But Chrystal,

1231
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 5: We've got to be honest, it was both sides. I mean,

1232
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 5: we had one hundred and fifty billionaires on our side.

1233
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 5: We had more billionaires on our side than their side,

1234
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 5: So you know, it's billion is agree.

1235
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 2: I agree with that Roe, but I will say that

1236
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 2: there's a fundamental, like qualitative difference when you're talking about

1237
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 2: a quarter of a billion dollars, which is something we

1238
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,600
Speaker 2: haven't seen before, and the whole of government mandate that

1239
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,679
Speaker 2: he's been granted. So there's no doubt that both sides

1240
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 2: have completely embraced big money in politics. Kama had plenty

1241
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 2: of billionaires backing her. That is certainly the case. I

1242
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 2: do think that the Elon Musk influence the richest man

1243
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 2: on the planet is of a character that we haven't

1244
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 2: seen before.

1245
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 5: That's fair and I you know, I mean we had

1246
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 5: probably people giving fifty billion or one hundred billion, and

1247
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 5: not two hundred and fifty billion at billion. And I

1248
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 5: have a post all of it. I don't have a

1249
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 5: super pack. I don't take a die a pack and

1250
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 5: lobby's money. I have said we need to as a

1251
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:07,640
Speaker 5: democratic party say no super pac body in democratic primaries,

1252
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 5: and we should be doing what Maine did is regulating,

1253
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 5: at the very least the amount a person can contribute

1254
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 5: to a super pack, just like they get regulated what

1255
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 5: they can contribute to an individual. They can only give

1256
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 5: me thirty three hundred dollars. Why should Elon must be

1257
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,560
Speaker 5: able to give two hundred and fifty million to a

1258
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 5: super pak. You should be able to give thirty three

1259
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 5: hundred dollars to it. Before you overturn Citizens United, Let's

1260
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 5: at least regulate these super PACs. May it passed by

1261
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 5: seventy percent. The DNC chair should be saying we're going

1262
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 5: to run that initiative in every state in this country.

1263
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 5: By the way, I'll just float. Jonathan Jackson is being

1264
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 5: talked about in Congress that we want him to get

1265
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 5: in the race for DNC chair. So I'm hoping he

1266
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 5: will do that, and I'm hoping he'll make some news

1267
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 5: in the next a couple of weeks.

1268
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 9: But You're also right.

1269
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 5: About the conflicts of interest, and I've said that there

1270
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 5: needs to be regulations on conflicts of interest. With both

1271
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 5: the VACAN and an Elon, they shouldn't be able to

1272
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 5: avoid these conflicts of interest.

1273
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 9: But you know why Trump.

1274
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 5: Hangs on to Elon because Trump is fundamentally eighties wealth. Right,

1275
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 5: His whole stick is nineteen eighties Hulk Hogan. I mean

1276
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 5: I told you mentioned him. I hadn't thought of that

1277
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 5: guy since I was in high school. Right, It's all

1278
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 5: about make America great again, Ronald Reagan. And where did

1279
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 5: Trump make his quote unquote money to the send he did?

1280
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 5: It was all the nineteen eighties. And he knows that

1281
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 5: Americans are always about the future, and so he's trying

1282
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 5: to glob On to Elon, because Elon's about the future

1283
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 5: in terms of the technology, and I think what the.

1284
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 9: Craits have to say is we get the future.

1285
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 5: We understand what future economic prosperity and stability looks like.

1286
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 5: It's not just giving tax cuts and deregulation where the

1287
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 5: wealth's going to pile up in Silicon Valley. We've got

1288
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 5: to actually make this technology economy work for small towns,

1289
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 5: for de industrialized com unities, for the working class that's

1290
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 5: been left out. We've got to have a tax on billionaires.

1291
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 5: We've got to tax the uber wealthy to provide healthcare

1292
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 5: and education, and that's how we're going to go into

1293
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 5: the future.

1294
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:13,799
Speaker 9: But my view.

1295
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 5: Is that instead of just reflexively criticizing everything about these

1296
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 5: tech guys, what we need to say is we're the

1297
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 5: party of the future, and we want technology to work

1298
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 5: for everyone, not just for these billionaires.

1299
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 2: Well, Commerce, and thank you so much for taking all

1300
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 2: the time out of your holidays schedule and letting us

1301
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 2: in your home there where your adorable kids are. And

1302
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 2: we're always grateful for your time and your insights, especially

1303
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:43,879
Speaker 2: on those issues.

1304
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 9: Thank you so much, appreciate you.

1305
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 4: It's our good pleasure. Have you a year?

1306
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 10: Ye?

1307
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 9: Happy? Here?

1308
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 3: Donald Trump has actually asked the Supreme Court to delay

1309
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 3: the TikTok sale deadline. I'm going to share a tear

1310
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 3: sheet so everyone can just see a little bit more

1311
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 3: about what's going on here. This is very significant. We've

1312
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 3: covered obviously Donald Trump and TikTok a lot on the

1313
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 3: show because there's a lot going on with it. Meaning

1314
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 3: Donald Trump seems to have been persuaded by one of

1315
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 3: his biggest donors, Jeffery Yass, who has a significant steak

1316
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:18,640
Speaker 3: in TikTok. I believe he has a majority steak in

1317
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,799
Speaker 3: TikTok to sort of change the hawkish anti China position

1318
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 3: that a lot of Republicans, if not most Republicans took

1319
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 3: on TikTok, And now Donald Trump has actually they're set

1320
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 3: to hear arguments on January tenth. The band was set

1321
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 3: to go in place on January nineteenth, still is set

1322
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 3: to go into place on January nineteenth, but has actually

1323
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 3: the Trump Trump's Dominie to b Solicitor General essentially filed

1324
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 3: an amikus brief that asked for a stay that would

1325
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 3: delay the deadline so that Donald Trump could come in

1326
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 3: and quote work out a negotiated resolution, as you can

1327
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 3: see in the ABC News article there. So again it's

1328
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:03,600
Speaker 3: not a huge surprise, Crystal, but another significant, a significant

1329
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 3: I would say, obstacle potentially being removed with the help

1330
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 3: of Donald Trump for TikTok. TikTok is desperate for this

1331
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 3: not to happen. They badly do not want to sell

1332
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 3: Byte Dance. Obviously, the Beijing based parent company of TikTok

1333
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 3: does not want to sell the company, even though it

1334
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 3: seems like there would be monetarily a deal that would

1335
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 3: work out pretty well for Byte Dance, given you know

1336
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 3: that isn't to say TikTok is a huge property obviously,

1337
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 3: I don't need to explain that to everybody. But in

1338
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 3: terms of like investment and future value, I can understand

1339
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 3: why Bye Dance would want to sell cultural questions of

1340
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 3: control aside. So this is again Donald Trump putting his

1341
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,640
Speaker 3: finger on the scale of it, Crystal, which sets up

1342
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 3: an interesting realignment question because if we share this next tab,

1343
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 3: you now also have the TikTok Gaza discourse that has

1344
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:03,720
Speaker 3: been going on. But this is THEO Vaughn waiting into that.

1345
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 3: I mean, he's talked about this before. Actually as well.

1346
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 3: But here's THEO vonn talking about that.

1347
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 10: They don't want people sharing the truth about the genocide

1348
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 10: in Palestine, and that's why that they're doing it. I

1349
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 10: believe that that's what it is. And TikTok is one

1350
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 10: of those places where people can still do that and

1351
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 10: they want to own it. They want to own it, dude. Suppressing, Yes, suppressing,

1352
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 10: Thank you so much? Yes, And I think, uh yeah,

1353
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 10: I mean, and people say thank you, and and people

1354
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 10: say like, well, we don't want China have our information.

1355
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 4: All these every they all have.

1356
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 3: What are they I don't.

1357
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 10: Understand and know what what that means? You know, like,

1358
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 10: what do you have my information? I have like six

1359
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 10: pieces of information. There's no way you don't have them.

1360
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 3: So, uh, Crystal, what he's getting at is something. So

1361
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 3: that is important to understand about Donald Trump. And we'll

1362
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 3: get to ultimately what may happen to TikTok. This the

1363
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 3: New York Times article how Donald Trump went from backing

1364
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 3: a TikTok ban to backing off. Well, one of the

1365
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 3: reasons a lot of people in Trump's circles still want

1366
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 3: a TikTok ban, in fact, is as theovon I think

1367
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 3: was just getting it. They've seen the surveys of TikTok

1368
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:27,800
Speaker 3: content and the breakdowns of it being much more pro

1369
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 3: Gaza sentiment than pro Israel sentiment, and there's this sense

1370
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 3: that control is being lost or that you know, China

1371
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:40,600
Speaker 3: is manipulating young people rather than hey, there are some

1372
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:43,640
Speaker 3: organic sentiments in this direction. Is actually the same thing

1373
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 3: with the Osama bin Laden letter when that it didn't

1374
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 3: actually go viral on tiktokh and yes, Charlie had a

1375
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 3: decent breakdown and the Washington Post had a great report

1376
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 3: on how it didn't actually go out. But the point

1377
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,720
Speaker 3: remains that there are sort of organic there is a

1378
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 3: deeply organic pessimism out American imperialism and American power. It's

1379
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 3: a doctor's place where people hash that out.

1380
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:06,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's that's really true.

1381
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 2: I think the point that Ryan has been making is

1382
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,759
Speaker 2: the correct one, which is like Israel has gotten away

1383
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 2: with it, like we're going to cover that they just

1384
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 2: destroyed the last hospital in Gaza. Donald Trump has won

1385
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 2: the election. You know, one of the other oligarchs who

1386
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 2: backed him massively is Maria Maddison, the widow of Sheldon Maddilson.

1387
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 2: To the tune of some one hundred million dollars plus,

1388
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 2: she's basically bought the foreign policy. Israel's going to get

1389
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 2: whatever they want, whether people on TikTok are upset or not,

1390
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 2: so that risk has sort of faded. Meanwhile, Donald Trump

1391
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 2: himself personally has gotten very popular on TikTok, and you know,

1392
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 2: with him, it's all about his ego and like he

1393
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 2: feels like this platform is nice to him now, so

1394
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 2: that also changes his view. And then you coupled to

1395
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 2: that the jeff Yass, the amount of money that jeff

1396
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:57,799
Speaker 2: Yass gave into his campaign, and it's very clear where

1397
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has decided that his lie. Now I happen

1398
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 2: to agree with them. I think it'd be preposterous to

1399
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 2: ban TikTok. I think it'd be incredibly you know, damaging

1400
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 2: to many creators who you know, created an entire careers

1401
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 2: off of the platform, the many young people who love

1402
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 2: TikTok and get a lot out of it and find

1403
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 2: it to be a fantastic creative outlet. And to me,

1404
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 2: the arguments were always kind of silly because it's like

1405
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 2: number one, are you're, oh, we're worried about the data.

1406
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 2: I mean, theovonn talked about this too. It's like, what

1407
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:32,440
Speaker 2: you think Mark Zuckerbarrock and all these other tech oligars

1408
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 2: don't already have your data, like everything that China would

1409
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 2: want to know about you. If they want to find

1410
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 2: it out, they already can. So that was always a

1411
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 2: little bit silly to me. And now the you know,

1412
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 2: the self interest has lined up in a very different

1413
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 2: direction for Trump, So I doubt that the TikTok pan

1414
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 2: is going to go into effect. They in the in

1415
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 2: the brief, they didn't actually weigh in on the core

1416
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:59,879
Speaker 2: of the legal challenge, which you're on the First Amendment.

1417
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: They just said, like, Donald Trump's a fantastic negotiator and

1418
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 2: he's going to work this out when he gets into office,

1419
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 2: so just don't you worry about it.

1420
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 4: Just push this off a little bit.

1421
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 2: But I think that's also reasonable to say, you know,

1422
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 2: he was democratically elected and he's got a view on

1423
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: the issue, and he's going to have control of both

1424
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:20,879
Speaker 2: the House and the Senate, and so it seems reasonable

1425
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 2: to imagine that he could potentially work out a deal

1426
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 2: here and not have to go through the Supreme Court process.

1427
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 2: But you know, curious for your thoughts on this, going

1428
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 2: back to the conversation we were having previously about Elon

1429
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 2: is like kind of buried in the whole pre holiday

1430
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 2: fuss over the government funding bill that Elon ultimately tanks

1431
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 2: and then they you know, strike this new deal, et cetera.

1432
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 2: One of the things that got pulled from the original

1433
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 2: deal with some restrictions on tech investment in China, which

1434
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 2: was a major priority for Elon because he wants to

1435
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 2: do this like Ai Tesla investment, you know, Chinese investment thing,

1436
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:01,759
Speaker 2: and so this was important for him. Lo and behold

1437
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 2: that gets pulled out, and when that gets pulled out

1438
01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 2: of the deal, suddenly.

1439
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 4: He's aokay with it.

1440
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 2: You also have Trump's previous hawkishness towards China is what

1441
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 2: led him to be in favor of a TikTok ban.

1442
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 2: Obviously he's changed his mind there. And you know, for Elon,

1443
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 2: much of his fortune is tied up in China, I mean,

1444
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 2: his investments in China. So the fact that he has

1445
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 2: so much influence in this administration leads me to believe

1446
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 2: you probably are going to get a very different orientation

1447
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 2: visa of e China in this Trump administration that you

1448
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 2: did in the last Trump administration. There's also a possibility

1449
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 2: with Trump, like he's old, you know, he's old, he's tired,

1450
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 2: he wants to play golf, that he's kind of happy

1451
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:48,719
Speaker 2: to just hand off a lot of the heavy lifting

1452
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 2: and policy making decisions to his like band of oligarchs

1453
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 2: that funded his election. He gets to stay on in prison,

1454
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 2: he gets out of his legal jeopardy, he gets to

1455
01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 2: have the pub the circumstance of being in the White

1456
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 2: House and you know, do the things that he wants

1457
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 2: to do. But also he gets to just kind of,

1458
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 2: you know whatever, pieces he doesn't really care about anymore,

1459
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 2: and not having to run for reelection, he can just

1460
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 2: handoff to his team of oligarchs.

1461
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 3: This is another one of those fascinating topics because it

1462
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 3: brings together so many of the different threads of the

1463
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,640
Speaker 3: Trump era in that you have again Trump's own oligarchs

1464
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 3: like being pitted against one another. So the Miriam Adelson

1465
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 3: versus the Jeff Yeah. So you have the China hawks

1466
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:31,000
Speaker 3: versus the sort of new right foreign policy, which is

1467
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 3: actually often very hawkish on China. But in a weird way,

1468
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 3: this could be good if it sort of is a

1469
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 3: counterbalance to some hawks in the incoming Trump administration, somebody,

1470
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 3: for example, like Secretary of State, incoming Secretary of State

1471
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 3: nominee Marco Rubio, who is extremely hawkish on China in

1472
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 3: a weird way. If you have like Elon who wants

1473
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,839
Speaker 3: to be more protective of his own business interests, Tesla

1474
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 3: is a good example in China as a counterballance to

1475
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 3: like be hawkish and enough that we end up in

1476
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 3: a war because of escalator rhetoric or whatever. Maybe that's

1477
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 3: a good thing, remains to be seen, but it's just

1478
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 3: it's very hard to know what Trump policy will look

1479
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:15,959
Speaker 3: like because we've seen on things like TikTok, for example,

1480
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 3: him just be so open. The most charitable way to

1481
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,760
Speaker 3: put it is like open minded to and open to

1482
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 3: different arguments. But I think what happened with Yas was

1483
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 3: openly transactional in an unusually brazen sense. To get back

1484
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 3: to what we were kind of talking about earlier Crystal

1485
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 3: with Jimmy Carter. So let's listen to Donald Trump the

1486
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 3: way that he's talked about TikTok more recently, which is

1487
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 3: very different than how he had obviously talked about it before.

1488
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 3: This is Trump actually before the election talking about how

1489
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 3: if you want to save TikTok, you have to vote

1490
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 3: Donald Trump for.

1491
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 11: All of those that want to save TikTok in America.

1492
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 9: Talk closing it up.

1493
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:04,879
Speaker 11: But I'm now a big star onok. You have TikTok

1494
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 11: jack and we're setting records. You're not to want anything

1495
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 11: with TikTok. The other side's going to close it up.

1496
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:15,679
Speaker 11: So if you like TikTok, go out and vote for Trump.

1497
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 11: If you don't care about TikTok and other things like safety,

1498
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:25,879
Speaker 11: security and prosperity, then you can vote for a Marxist

1499
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 11: who's going to destroy our country.

1500
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 3: There you go.

1501
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 4: That's the pitch.

1502
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:35,760
Speaker 3: It's pretty clear. It's pretty clear. It's so funny on

1503
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,639
Speaker 3: so many different levels there. But you can see crystal

1504
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 3: that as soon as he realized that he could have

1505
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 3: some control over the platform, it's not just about Jeff. Yes,

1506
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 3: it's about people liking Donald Trump on the platform. Yeah,

1507
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's campaign itself being able to find success on

1508
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:57,679
Speaker 3: the platform. I've actually always disagreed on this. I've always

1509
01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 3: been in favor of a TikTok ban, and I think

1510
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 3: that it's different. I don't support this ban. I think

1511
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 3: this is the way that all of the legislation at

1512
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:08,640
Speaker 3: band TikTok was written is insane, not surprising, but insane

1513
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,679
Speaker 3: in not a narrow way. Obviously sort of power grab.

1514
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 3: They were all written to be power grabs rather than

1515
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 3: actually I deal with the problem. So that was always suspect.

1516
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:22,559
Speaker 3: But in a sense then Donald Trump coming in and saying, hey,

1517
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,600
Speaker 3: I'm doing great on TikTok, let's save it.

1518
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,559
Speaker 4: It kind of worked. He did well with young people.

1519
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 4: It might have I don't know with young people.

1520
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 3: I don't know that the brief is going to be

1521
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 3: successful that they filed because we're talking about a piece

1522
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,960
Speaker 3: of legislation that was democratically, that was that was passed

1523
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:40,680
Speaker 3: through our system to the extent that it is a

1524
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 3: democratic it was passed through Congress, lamed by the president.

1525
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:45,800
Speaker 3: So I don't know that they'll they'll have much room

1526
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,759
Speaker 3: here with the Supreme Court. But even how the Supreme

1527
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 3: Court this or Trump era Supreme Court is going to

1528
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 3: decide on this is an interesting question because you have

1529
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 3: sort of more libertarian leaners like a Neil Gorsich or

1530
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,719
Speaker 3: anymy Cony Barrett, and then you have people like Clarence Thomas,

1531
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 3: and oh, I would say potentially Sam Alito, who will

1532
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 3: go probably in a different direction, but we don't know.

1533
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to me, it's reasonable to say, hey,

1534
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm just coming into office, like just delay thinking about this,

1535
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:20,560
Speaker 2: delay weighing this decision, and let me see if I

1536
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,800
Speaker 2: can work something out. I could see them being amenable

1537
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 2: to that ultimately. And I've been dug deeply or at

1538
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 2: least not for a while into what the legal case is.

1539
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 2: But I think it's effectively TikTok is saying that the

1540
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 2: bill is a is a violation of free speech rights. Yeah,

1541
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 2: and that's that's the case that they're making. Which yeah,

1542
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 2: I would think that the more libertarian oriented part of

1543
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 2: parts of the court may be amenable too, and also

1544
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 2: the more like pro corporate sides of the court. But

1545
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 2: I personally I can't imagine TikTok actually being banned at

1546
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 2: this point. Like, no, it is hard for me to imagine. So,

1547
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 2: whether you know one way or another, I feel like

1548
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 2: it's kind of likely the Supreme Court is going to say,

1549
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,160
Speaker 2: all right, we'll just delay it and let you work

1550
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 2: it out, and then Trump will figure something out because

1551
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 2: this is an important priority for one of his donors.

1552
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:08,760
Speaker 4: So there you go.

1553
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 3: Well, and also, Trump friendly holigarchs have been lining up

1554
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 3: to buy TikTok and like have been lining up investors

1555
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 3: obviously to make a deal that's sort of too good

1556
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 3: for Byte Dance to turn down if it ends up

1557
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 3: that they are not successful at the Supreme Court. So

1558
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 3: whether you still have the sort of Beijing based algorithmic

1559
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 3: magic that they feel they have with TikTok right now

1560
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 3: if it is sold is a totally open question. I

1561
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 3: think Byte Dance doesn't do itself many favors by saying,

1562
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 3: you know, on the one hand, we absolutely need to

1563
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:46,760
Speaker 3: be owned by TikTok needs to be owned by byte

1564
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 3: Dance in order to be as good as it is,

1565
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,320
Speaker 3: which means like, Okay, I guess I'm curious what you're

1566
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 3: doing with all of that data over there. But on

1567
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 3: the other hand, you know, what does that look like

1568
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 3: in terms of significant disruptions to the platform that everybody knows.

1569
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,760
Speaker 3: I kind of doubt it would be as as significant

1570
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 3: as the people who want to maintain control of TikTok

1571
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 3: with by Dance say that it will be again because

1572
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:16,639
Speaker 3: it's a very successful product and it's it's I mean,

1573
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 3: if you if you buy TikTok you're going to have

1574
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,759
Speaker 3: a huge interest in keeping it successful, making it more successful,

1575
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 3: making it more addictive, is what it means.

1576
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's that's that's the truth of the matter.

1577
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 2: To bring it back to vivecant Elon in that whole

1578
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 2: fight is we need. What we really need is less

1579
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 2: TikTok and more sleep overs and more hanging out.

1580
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 3: Less x less social media. I mean, it's just such

1581
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,479
Speaker 3: an insane argument from the people who literally own the

1582
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:43,960
Speaker 3: social media platforms.

1583
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 4: But very true, very true.

1584
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 2: So we didn't want to lose sight of the latest

1585
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:55,320
Speaker 2: in terms of the idf onslaught in Gaza, they have

1586
01:27:55,479 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 2: now officially rated and evacuated and detained many patients from

1587
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:06,799
Speaker 2: the last functioning hospital in northern Gazas called Kamal Adwan.

1588
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:10,919
Speaker 2: Reports are some two hundred and forty Palestinians, including dozens

1589
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 2: of medical staff, were detained from the hospital, and that's

1590
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:19,839
Speaker 2: to include the director of the hospital, doctor Hassam Abu Safia,

1591
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 2: who some have said are being held and tortured by

1592
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 2: the idea of his family. Is deeply concerned and this

1593
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 2: comes as you know, they've they've instituted this plan where

1594
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:35,400
Speaker 2: they've effectively sealed off northern Gaza and are just you know,

1595
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,720
Speaker 2: starving and obliterating everything in sight. And we have some

1596
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 2: images we can share with you here just to give

1597
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 2: you a sense of the level of devastation. This is

1598
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 2: that hospital director, doctor Assam Abu Safia, who you know,

1599
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 2: exited the hospital and is approaching these tanks, and I

1600
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:56,920
Speaker 2: believe this the last that that he had been seeing.

1601
01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:00,040
Speaker 2: You can see just the incredible amount of rubble and

1602
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:03,479
Speaker 2: also incredible amount of courage. People are commenting on him

1603
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 2: walking through this landscape and approaching these tanks outside of

1604
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 2: the hospital. I can show you a little bit of

1605
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 2: the imagery of the patients being expelled from the hospital here.

1606
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:21,759
Speaker 2: This is doctors and patients. You can see on the screen.

1607
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:28,639
Speaker 2: Many of the men were ultimately forced to strip down.

1608
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,599
Speaker 2: The weather is you know, quite chilly now. In fact,

1609
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 2: we've had reports of a number of infants who have

1610
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:38,520
Speaker 2: died at this point because of hypothermia and the freezing temperatures,

1611
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 2: who are already born, likely malnourished because their mothers are

1612
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:47,240
Speaker 2: unable to get sufficient caloric intake while they're pregnant, and

1613
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 2: then they're unable to breastfeed, you know, sufficiently if at

1614
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 2: all because of the lack of lack of nutrition, and

1615
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 2: the situation is the most dire in northern Gaza. This

1616
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 2: is an image of that hospital on fire. And again

1617
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 2: this was really the last functioning hospital in Northern Gaza.

1618
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:10,520
Speaker 2: I saw that these patients were moved to another hospital,

1619
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 2: but that hospital has been condemned because it also had

1620
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 2: been so severely damaged. So no telling where they're going

1621
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,679
Speaker 2: to head to next. And then let me just show

1622
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 2: you this next one. These are a number of additional

1623
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 2: photos from the people who were removed and many of

1624
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:31,160
Speaker 2: them detained. You can see them exiting the hospital. Also

1625
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 2: just I mean, just look at this landscape, like there

1626
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:37,639
Speaker 2: is just just nothing left. You can see them here

1627
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 2: crowded together and forced. This is the men forced to

1628
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:46,640
Speaker 2: strip down to their underwear and their hands bound and

1629
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 2: here you see them kneeling and blindfolded on the ground.

1630
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 2: So you know, just really horrific images and horrific situation

1631
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 2: that is coming out there, and you know, it's easy

1632
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 2: to forget Emily that just over a year ago, when

1633
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 2: the attack, plans were being made for Al Shifa to

1634
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,799
Speaker 2: raid Al Shifa Hospital. There was a whole propaganda effort

1635
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 2: to convince the world that this was legitimate. That you know,

1636
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 2: they said there was this Tamas layer underground, and they

1637
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 2: created this whole three D imagery around what they would

1638
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 2: find there. Of course, they didn't find any of that there.

1639
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 2: They claimed to find some tunnels, and I think there

1640
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 2: was some alleged cache of weapons that they found but

1641
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 2: or claimed to find, but nothing close to what they

1642
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 2: had purported to say existed underneath of this hospital complex.

1643
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 2: Now here we are more than a year later, and

1644
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 2: this barely gets a mention in the news. The entire

1645
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 2: healthcare system has basically been destroyed in northern Gaza. The

1646
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:56,880
Speaker 2: entire healthcare system has been destroyed, and I feel like

1647
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 2: there's kind of no going back, not just with regard

1648
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 2: to Israel, but with regard to the world. When you

1649
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:04,839
Speaker 2: watch all of this unfold and it's just allowed to happen,

1650
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 2: I think, is this these atrocities and this you know

1651
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:12,599
Speaker 2: what the worldwide consensus has basically arrived at that this

1652
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:15,680
Speaker 2: is a genocide. This is unfolded in front of all

1653
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:18,719
Speaker 2: of our eyes. No power with the ability to intervene

1654
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 2: has decided to intervene, and so it kind of, you know,

1655
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 2: opens up a new era of brutality and might makes

1656
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 2: right that you know, maybe you say that's always been

1657
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 2: the law, but there was at least some semblance of

1658
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 2: we have these international rules and countries are going to

1659
01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 2: be somewhat constrained.

1660
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 4: I think all the shackles are off.

1661
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 2: I think that there's going to be sort of unchecked

1662
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 2: barbarism in the future based on what Israel has been

1663
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 2: able to get away with here with very little repercussions.

1664
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 3: And I imagine you read the New York Times report

1665
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 3: just what was this was right before Christmas? Wasn't it

1666
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,719
Speaker 3: like the day before Christmas? About how this was based

1667
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:05,240
Speaker 3: on conversations with internal IDF sources about how the standards

1668
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:10,879
Speaker 3: were consciously lowered about civilian casualties, like basically the ratio

1669
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:18,600
Speaker 3: of likely civilian casualties to combatant casualties, and how this

1670
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:24,160
Speaker 3: was a conscious decision that was made internally formally by

1671
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:29,559
Speaker 3: particular military leaders at different times that changed what we

1672
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 3: have sort of been told over and over again were

1673
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 3: the very high standards and previous conflicts that the IDF,

1674
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:41,559
Speaker 3: as their defenders say, held to and so crystal. I

1675
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 3: think that does raise an interesting question of precedent about this,

1676
01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 3: or of justification, because I was curious when I was

1677
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 3: reading that article about how it would be defended by

1678
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 3: the people who have said over and over again that

1679
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:00,120
Speaker 3: the other ratios were the defensible ratios and were the

1680
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 3: sort of best in the world. And so I mean,

1681
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 3: it's also if Donald Trump comes in, and if right

1682
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 3: now what is happening with Netsan Yahou and Biden, is

1683
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 3: that you know, there's we don't have a president with

1684
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 3: the mental faculties to even be negotiating something like a ceasefire,

1685
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:21,840
Speaker 3: given that we are the backer of this conflict, of

1686
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:25,280
Speaker 3: the primary backer of this conflict, that as Israel said

1687
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 3: that this conflict couldn't be waged without American military support.

1688
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:33,080
Speaker 3: So if that is the case and we're in this

1689
01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 3: interim period between Netahuo maybe hoping to have a ceasefire

1690
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 3: deal with the back of Donald Trump, that looks differently

1691
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:43,519
Speaker 3: than it would under Biden. It also sheds light on

1692
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 3: how those delays have enormous human costs. Right. It's it's

1693
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:53,439
Speaker 3: if you're delaying it for the sake of politics, what

1694
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 3: happens in the interim is real, and people die and

1695
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:00,599
Speaker 3: it ends people's lives. And that's so that I've been

1696
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 3: thinking about as I've seen these images coming as well.

1697
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. And you know,

1698
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:14,280
Speaker 2: the it has rendered human life so cheap too, you know,

1699
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:17,679
Speaker 2: the number of people killed and just the amount of

1700
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 2: pain and suffering and destructure of every sort of civilian

1701
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 2: infrastructure like it just it has rendered human life really cheap.

1702
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 2: And that has implications that you know, go far beyond

1703
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 2: Gaza and you know, spillover effects that will impact, you know,

1704
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:41,680
Speaker 2: the way the level of barbarism that people tolerate, that

1705
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 2: people think is normal, that nations think that they can

1706
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:49,600
Speaker 2: get away with. And you know, at this point, previously

1707
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 2: there was some possibility that because most of the upset

1708
01:35:55,360 --> 01:36:00,479
Speaker 2: over is the Israeli genocide and Gaza was coming from

1709
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 2: the left, which is part of the Democratic Coalition, that

1710
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:06,040
Speaker 2: there could be enough political pressure brought to bear on

1711
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 2: the Biden Harris administration to force some sort of change

1712
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 2: in policy. Like that was an ongoing question. You saw

1713
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 2: at times, you know, he would sort of bend to

1714
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 2: pressure with Hell's withhold this weapons shipment, Kamala. Harris would

1715
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 2: make some comments that seem to at least value Palestinian life,

1716
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:24,599
Speaker 2: et cetera. So it was like an ongoing possibility. And

1717
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:29,480
Speaker 2: you know, with Kamala losing and with Trump being totally

1718
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:34,160
Speaker 2: like committed to whatever Miriam Medlicine and Israel wants him

1719
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:36,679
Speaker 2: to do based on his first German office and based

1720
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 2: on also how he's positioned himself this time around, that's over.

1721
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 2: Like Trump doesn't care what left he's on TikTok have

1722
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 2: to say about any of this. Trump doesn't care what

1723
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:48,840
Speaker 2: students camp down on a college campus have to say

1724
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 2: about any of this. So, you know, I hate to

1725
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:55,599
Speaker 2: be hate to be so pessimistic, but when you look

1726
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 2: at that landscape of just nothing but rubble, death and destruction,

1727
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:04,320
Speaker 2: it's like it's over. Like Israel gets to do what

1728
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:07,400
Speaker 2: Israel wants to do. No one is going to check them.

1729
01:37:07,439 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 2: Their story is coming out that the dogs in Gaza,

1730
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 2: which at one point we're starving to death, are now

1731
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:17,600
Speaker 2: fat and bloated from the number of corpses, human corpses

1732
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:21,599
Speaker 2: that they've been feasting on. Like that's where we are,

1733
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 2: and we all watched as it happened, and our government

1734
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:28,240
Speaker 2: actively was like, yes, we support.

1735
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:29,479
Speaker 4: This, We're going to ship bombs for it.

1736
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 2: Both parties effectively agreed with very few dissenters to your

1737
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 2: point about the New York Times article, Emily, so that

1738
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:42,080
Speaker 2: reporting that the New York Times now finally has gotten

1739
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:45,440
Speaker 2: around to doing nine seven to two magazine, which is

1740
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:51,840
Speaker 2: Israeli publication. It was probably right about a year ago broke.

1741
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 4: Down their report that revealed all of.

1742
01:37:54,800 --> 01:38:00,679
Speaker 2: These things, from the AI targeting system to the fact

1743
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:03,639
Speaker 2: that you know, they decided, oh, we can target low

1744
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:06,879
Speaker 2: level HAMAS operatives even when they're at home with their families,

1745
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 2: which is something that you know, most like no other

1746
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 2: Western developed society would be willing to do. Like imagine,

1747
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:15,559
Speaker 2: if you know, imagine if a foreign power was targeting

1748
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:17,760
Speaker 2: our like low level soldiers when they're just like at

1749
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:20,000
Speaker 2: home with their kids, and think about how that would

1750
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,240
Speaker 2: be received, or think about how be received if Hamas

1751
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:25,599
Speaker 2: was attacking you know, not that they would be morally

1752
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:28,800
Speaker 2: above this, but if they attacked IDF soldiers when they

1753
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 2: were at home just with their kids and their wife,

1754
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 2: how that would be viewed. And they made that official

1755
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:38,599
Speaker 2: policy in it right, Yeah, And that's that's true. And

1756
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:44,200
Speaker 2: in addition to increasing the number of acceptable civilian debts

1757
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:47,000
Speaker 2: and even that number they would push up to like well,

1758
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,360
Speaker 2: actually it's Okay, if two hundred civilians are killed in

1759
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:53,320
Speaker 2: this attack for someone that we particularly want, all of

1760
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:57,320
Speaker 2: this reporting had been done already. It's just that the

1761
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:02,000
Speaker 2: mainstream press didn't find it like convenient at the moment

1762
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 2: to admit it. And actually, and I can can show

1763
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:08,200
Speaker 2: you this. One of the authors, one of the journalists

1764
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 2: who was on this byline, had previously gotten asked about

1765
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 2: that nine seven to two reporting, and Ryan shared this,

1766
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:19,600
Speaker 2: So he says, Bergmann is on the byline confirming that

1767
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:22,519
Speaker 2: reporting on the idf using AI to target entire families.

1768
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:25,919
Speaker 2: Yet here he is when it mattered, dismissing the reporting

1769
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:29,960
Speaker 2: as mere fantasy. The New York Times international embarrassment. So

1770
01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 2: this is the journalist who's you know, is on the

1771
01:39:32,479 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 2: byline now confirming this reporting that at one point he

1772
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:39,840
Speaker 2: mocked and compared it to a Netflix show. Just take

1773
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 2: a listen to this.

1774
01:39:41,080 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 7: You know, sometimes people come to be you know, for

1775
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:52,240
Speaker 7: sources and stories, and I think about the stories that

1776
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:55,600
Speaker 7: they are too bad to be true. They sound go

1777
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:59,480
Speaker 7: like Netflix episode, And something.

1778
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:03,519
Speaker 2: Happened more like a Netflix episode than something that happens

1779
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:05,920
Speaker 2: in reality. That's what he was saying about the nine

1780
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,800
Speaker 2: seven and two reporting. That he has now confirmed. And

1781
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 2: Ryan's point that you know, it doesn't really matter anymore

1782
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:16,040
Speaker 2: at this point, like it's over, it's done, is a

1783
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:18,560
Speaker 2: really important one. So now in your times, feels comfortable

1784
01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:23,080
Speaker 2: reporting the reality of the situation when there's no possibility

1785
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:25,400
Speaker 2: of any pressure changing and when so many lives and

1786
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 2: so much destruction has already been wrought.

1787
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 3: You know, we're true of every conflict, but we're going

1788
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:36,519
Speaker 3: to keep learning more and more about what's transpired over

1789
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:40,120
Speaker 3: the course of the last year in Gaza for years

1790
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:47,440
Speaker 3: to come. And to your point, it's there are tiktoks,

1791
01:40:47,439 --> 01:40:51,360
Speaker 3: like there's organic evidence of a lot of this that

1792
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:56,360
Speaker 3: it doesn't quite get picked up, and so that's where

1793
01:40:56,360 --> 01:41:01,000
Speaker 3: there's kind of a disconnect between media and the public.

1794
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 2: So I want to be fair here to the Israeli side.

1795
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:06,080
Speaker 2: You know, of course they can claim this was some

1796
01:41:06,120 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 2: sort of a Humas stronghold, and this is the you know,

1797
01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:13,639
Speaker 2: cash of quote unquote weapons that they claim they found

1798
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,919
Speaker 2: in kamal Od one, the hospital that they just attacked.

1799
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:22,599
Speaker 2: We've got two pistols, a monocular, a compass, a dagger,

1800
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:27,519
Speaker 2: some money, and a fanny pack. So that's what they

1801
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:32,640
Speaker 2: even by their own by their own statements. That's what

1802
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 2: they're using to justify this. So there you go. Reaction

1803
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 2: and response continues to roll in in the wake of

1804
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 2: the murder of Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, and the latest

1805
01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:50,479
Speaker 2: to offer a take is Tim Dillon, who, as part

1806
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:55,160
Speaker 2: of a Netflix roast, actually dressed up as the ghost

1807
01:41:55,760 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 2: of Brian Thompson and had quite a quite a bit

1808
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:01,880
Speaker 2: that he leaned into. Here, let me go ahead and

1809
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 2: show you a little bit of what he had to say.

1810
01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 10: Is this what you want?

1811
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:09,519
Speaker 5: Laughing?

1812
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:15,920
Speaker 9: Here's a free medicine. Here you go, that's fed at all,

1813
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 9: not as much as you want.

1814
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:20,559
Speaker 12: It's fed at all, laced with more fan at all.

1815
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 12: I'm Brian Thompson. I'm going to hell for this. You

1816
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:29,000
Speaker 12: might as well laugh.

1817
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:31,800
Speaker 2: I go in to hell for this, you might as

1818
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:34,640
Speaker 2: well laugh. Here were some other of the things that

1819
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 2: he said, Emily, I just pull up the New York Post.

1820
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 2: Comedian Tim Dillon appeared as the ghost of slain United

1821
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 2: Healthcare's THEEO, Brian Thompson in Netflix's Torching twenty twenty four,

1822
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:48,360
Speaker 2: a roast of the year, on Friday, less than a

1823
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 2: month after the executive was gunned down. They talk about

1824
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 2: how he was dressed, similar to the way that Thompson

1825
01:42:53,280 --> 01:42:57,839
Speaker 2: was don ghoulish gray makeup. Was met with a mixture

1826
01:42:57,880 --> 01:43:02,360
Speaker 2: of nervous laughter and cheers. He introduced himself and had

1827
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:07,599
Speaker 2: a sign that read United Hellcare CEO. Addressed the elephant

1828
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 2: in the room, saying, as Thompson that he's been in hell,

1829
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:11,840
Speaker 2: reading the tweets that a lot of people are happy

1830
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:15,639
Speaker 2: he's dead. Quote, your reaction to my murder makes me sick,

1831
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 2: and not the type of sick I would immediately deny

1832
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:21,799
Speaker 2: for not having the proper paperwork, the comedian said, taking

1833
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:24,920
Speaker 2: a job at United Healthcare's track record of denying its

1834
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:29,400
Speaker 2: policies members, So there you go. Tim Dillon weigh in

1835
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:31,559
Speaker 2: with his take, Emily, did you see a lot of

1836
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:33,920
Speaker 2: pearl clutching over this or people will just sort of

1837
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 2: like accept it At this point, No, I.

1838
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 3: Actually looked because as we were prepping the show, I

1839
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:43,600
Speaker 3: was assumed that this would have elicited some of the

1840
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:47,200
Speaker 3: pearl clutching that we saw earlier. And I'm not saying

1841
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:49,560
Speaker 3: all that is unreasonable, but there really wasn't any. I

1842
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:51,599
Speaker 3: don't know if it was because it was the holiday break,

1843
01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:54,559
Speaker 3: but or if it's actually because of the poll that

1844
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about, and this was sort of

1845
01:43:56,479 --> 01:43:59,519
Speaker 3: increasingly clear that to the Tim Dillons of the world

1846
01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 3: sort of do of their fingers more firmly on the pulse.

1847
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,599
Speaker 2: That probably is that there was an effort to make

1848
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:10,720
Speaker 2: it seem like this reaction to Brian Thompson's murder was

1849
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,880
Speaker 2: just some like far left, you know, ghoulish reaction, but

1850
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 2: poles like this tell you that was pretty widespread. Sixty

1851
01:44:19,320 --> 01:44:23,720
Speaker 2: nine percent of Americans say that health insurance claimed denials

1852
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:27,600
Speaker 2: had a great deal or a moderate amount of responsibility

1853
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 2: for the killing of CEO Brian Thompson, according to a

1854
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:32,720
Speaker 2: new poll. If you go down the list here too,

1855
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 2: you've got sixty seven percent saying that profits made by

1856
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:38,679
Speaker 2: health insurance companies had a great deal or a moderate

1857
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:41,200
Speaker 2: amount to do with it wealth or income in general.

1858
01:44:41,240 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 2: You have a majority of view. And then this was

1859
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:45,160
Speaker 2: kind of crazy to me if you look at this

1860
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:47,840
Speaker 2: bottom number. So they say, okay, but how about the

1861
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:52,040
Speaker 2: dude who actually killed him, And obviously seventy eight percent

1862
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 2: of people are like, yeah, I mean that probably had

1863
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:56,240
Speaker 2: something to do with it. Like this actual man who

1864
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:59,040
Speaker 2: was a murderer. But it was astonishing to me that

1865
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 2: you had twenty eighty percent of people who said that

1866
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,479
Speaker 2: the literal guy who killed him had only a little

1867
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 2: or nothing at all to do with the murder. Like

1868
01:45:08,439 --> 01:45:11,559
Speaker 2: that part is actually that is actually crazy to me.

1869
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:14,760
Speaker 3: Granted, you can get twenty percent of Americans to say

1870
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:18,599
Speaker 3: just about anything, but only sixty three percent when we

1871
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 3: were looking at that, said that he is like bearing

1872
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:24,680
Speaker 3: the full responsibility, which means people have very mixed opinions.

1873
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:26,599
Speaker 3: Like that sixty three percent number to me is even

1874
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:28,960
Speaker 3: more significant, Like it's a majority, yes, but it's it's

1875
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 3: not like a commanding majority. It's like people are pretty

1876
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:35,160
Speaker 3: have pretty mixed emotions about what happened. And so I

1877
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 3: think Chris might be right that the immediate freak out

1878
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 3: over sort of the dirt bag left, right, Like, this

1879
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:47,360
Speaker 3: is just the dirt bag Left, and they're they're just

1880
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:52,840
Speaker 3: such dirt bags, they're such losers, and they're just they're trolling,

1881
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 3: and we're going to have this moral panic over how

1882
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 3: awful is that they're trolling. Really, I think has become

1883
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 3: clear was missing the boat was not the right argument

1884
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:07,919
Speaker 3: to be making. Is like, if you want to actually

1885
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:12,240
Speaker 3: convince people or persuade people to have a different approach

1886
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 3: to what happened to Brian Thompson. If you want to

1887
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:18,120
Speaker 3: actually say, you know this was you can't be like

1888
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:23,480
Speaker 3: ironically worshiping Luigi with the prayer candles and the memes.

1889
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 3: Probably there's a different argument line of argument that you

1890
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 3: want to be making. Then you're all disgusting idiots because

1891
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:33,920
Speaker 3: it's a lot of people. It's a lot of people.

1892
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly right, And you know, just to like

1893
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 2: a lot of these polls, it depends a lot on

1894
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 2: how you ask the question blah blah blah. And to

1895
01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:45,160
Speaker 2: say that the claim denial rate had something to do

1896
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:48,479
Speaker 2: with the murder is different than saying, like, the murder

1897
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:50,479
Speaker 2: was good and I'm glad that he was murdered, right,

1898
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 2: that's Those are two wildly different things, and I think

1899
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:57,160
Speaker 2: there's been an effort to conflate those two things and

1900
01:46:57,200 --> 01:46:59,559
Speaker 2: basically say, if you want to even use this as

1901
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:05,240
Speaker 2: an opportunity to talk about the cruelty, sickness, death, bankruptcy

1902
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:09,320
Speaker 2: that results from our healthcare system, then you're basically celebrating murder.

1903
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 2: I think there's been a real effort to complate those

1904
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:16,400
Speaker 2: two sentiments of like, yeah, this is a disgusting system.

1905
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:18,720
Speaker 2: This was a person who was, you know, at the

1906
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:23,920
Speaker 2: head of one of the most notoriously like evil healthcare companies,

1907
01:47:24,360 --> 01:47:27,120
Speaker 2: and we think that that is wrong. In addition to

1908
01:47:27,240 --> 01:47:30,639
Speaker 2: thinking that murdering someone you know, uh, on the street

1909
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:34,320
Speaker 2: in New York is wrong. That is the piece that

1910
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 2: has been sort of willfully ignored. And Ken Clipenstein has

1911
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:40,439
Speaker 2: been doing a really fantastic.

1912
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 4: Job reporting speaking of the dirt bag left see yeah.

1913
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:46,360
Speaker 2: I mean Ken just is he has the biggest balls

1914
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 2: of anyone I think I've ever seen. Like I'm sure

1915
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:50,680
Speaker 2: the local FBI agent where he is in him are

1916
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:52,960
Speaker 2: on like a first name basis. But in any case,

1917
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 2: Ken's done really good reporting too on what's going on

1918
01:47:56,080 --> 01:47:59,920
Speaker 2: internally at United Health Group. He's been doing great report

1919
01:48:00,320 --> 01:48:05,599
Speaker 2: about the security state's response to this murder. And there's

1920
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:08,200
Speaker 2: a lot of very troubling indications that they're going to

1921
01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 2: use things like, you know, maybe people posting the Saint

1922
01:48:11,479 --> 01:48:18,480
Speaker 2: Luigi Candle memes to label them as extremists, domestic extremists

1923
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:21,400
Speaker 2: who should be you know, tracked and surveilled, et cetera,

1924
01:48:21,439 --> 01:48:25,800
Speaker 2: et CETERA very similar trajectory to you know, we saw

1925
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:30,200
Speaker 2: after nine to eleven the use of our deep states,

1926
01:48:30,240 --> 01:48:34,760
Speaker 2: like security state agencies against American citizens, against people who

1927
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,679
Speaker 2: were here legally, attempts to entrap them, et cetera. We've

1928
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 2: seen that targeting right wing extremists in the Trump era,

1929
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:47,800
Speaker 2: you know, the Gretchen Whitmer plot, et cetera. And it

1930
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:50,080
Speaker 2: is very plausible to me that this would be another

1931
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:54,360
Speaker 2: excuse for further security state expansion to go against quote

1932
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:58,840
Speaker 2: unquote anti capital extremists or anti capitalism extremists who may

1933
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:03,400
Speaker 2: have expressed so like untoward sentiments about this murder and

1934
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:05,000
Speaker 2: about Luigi Mangiote as well.

1935
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:08,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it will definitely be interesting to see how if

1936
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:11,719
Speaker 3: like cash Battel is confirmed as director of the FBI,

1937
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:16,679
Speaker 3: the incoming Trump administration handles this question as the Luigi

1938
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:20,280
Speaker 3: stuff really isn't going away. It's it's going to obviously

1939
01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:22,760
Speaker 3: there's going to be a trial and it'll be in

1940
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:26,320
Speaker 3: the news. So I'll be watching that closely for sure.

1941
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 3: Given all of the sort of realignment on Intel world,

1942
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 3: you know, conservatives now being more critical of Intel overreach.

1943
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:38,320
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm skeptical of this because I think

1944
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:40,519
Speaker 2: they I don't think they care about intel overreach. I

1945
01:49:40,560 --> 01:49:43,880
Speaker 2: think they don't want their political side targeted. All right,

1946
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:46,280
Speaker 2: So we've got some incredible Joe Biden news here. Emily

1947
01:49:46,360 --> 01:49:50,679
Speaker 2: Apparently he thinks he would have beat Donald Trump. So

1948
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:56,280
Speaker 2: the Biden delusions have never stopped. This is amazing. So

1949
01:49:56,439 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 2: this I think was from a Washington Post profile of

1950
01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:01,479
Speaker 2: The Guardian wrote it up and reportedly, regrets ending his

1951
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:06,720
Speaker 2: reelection campaign, says he would have defeated Trump. This is

1952
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:09,880
Speaker 2: according to White House sources. They say they that he

1953
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:12,320
Speaker 2: still thinks he would have won, even though there were

1954
01:50:12,360 --> 01:50:15,280
Speaker 2: negative pull indications. He also reportedly said he made a

1955
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:18,839
Speaker 2: mistake in choosing me Garland as Attorney General because Garland

1956
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:20,920
Speaker 2: was so slow to prosecute Donald Trump.

1957
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 4: That part is actually kind of true.

1958
01:50:23,200 --> 01:50:28,080
Speaker 2: But you know, we had talked about Jon Favreau revealed

1959
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:34,080
Speaker 2: that Biden's own polsters had him losing four hundred Electoral

1960
01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 2: College votes to Donald Trump, and yet he still thinks

1961
01:50:40,520 --> 01:50:42,000
Speaker 2: he would have been able to pull it off. Like

1962
01:50:42,080 --> 01:50:43,840
Speaker 2: I just I don't even know what to say to that.

1963
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:48,120
Speaker 2: That is an incredible level of delusion that I cannot

1964
01:50:48,120 --> 01:50:49,160
Speaker 2: even wrap my head around.

1965
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 3: Although not surprising because he clung to the he clung

1966
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 3: to the nomination for weeks after he said we beat

1967
01:50:56,760 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 3: Medicare in a debate, among other gaffes that were just

1968
01:51:01,200 --> 01:51:04,800
Speaker 3: beyond embarrassing over the course of that night. So I

1969
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:07,800
Speaker 3: have an unpopular opinion on this, which is that I

1970
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:10,760
Speaker 3: think there's there's something to this. I think he's ultimately wrong.

1971
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:13,120
Speaker 3: But what I do think is true, and this is

1972
01:51:13,120 --> 01:51:15,120
Speaker 3: one of the things I ended up getting wrong in

1973
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:16,559
Speaker 3: the election of Row. But one of the things I

1974
01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:20,400
Speaker 3: do think is true is that the polarization is such

1975
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 3: that you can run generic R, generic D, even if

1976
01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:28,960
Speaker 3: they are literally the host of Celebrity Apprentice or like

1977
01:51:29,080 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 3: completely completely just out of their like out of their

1978
01:51:35,840 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 3: mind at this point, Joe Biden not in control of

1979
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:41,200
Speaker 3: his own mental faculties, and you can still have a

1980
01:51:41,200 --> 01:51:45,000
Speaker 3: close election. So I don't think he could have won,

1981
01:51:45,400 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 3: but I think it would be closer than people realize.

1982
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:49,040
Speaker 3: And but one of the things I got wrong in

1983
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:52,360
Speaker 3: the election was I expected that we were we would

1984
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 3: still be like very polarized over the question of Trump,

1985
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:56,240
Speaker 3: and we are to be fair like it was a

1986
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 3: it was a close election, but I do think some

1987
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:00,599
Speaker 3: of the Trump stigma was gone and that's I agree,

1988
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:02,840
Speaker 3: kind of pushed them over the edge. And that's what

1989
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:06,280
Speaker 3: it's like hilarious that Biden is still like, hey, we

1990
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:10,360
Speaker 3: could have had it if it weren't for Kamala, We

1991
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:12,640
Speaker 3: just we could have We could have had it. So

1992
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 3: I think it's two things. Like one, I think it

1993
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:17,439
Speaker 3: actually would have been surprisingly close, even with Biden on

1994
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 3: the ticket, and even with him thinking that he beat

1995
01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:20,720
Speaker 3: Medicare in some.

1996
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:22,439
Speaker 4: Way disagree, disagree.

1997
01:52:22,479 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 2: I think the people were like, you cannot, you cannot

1998
01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:29,880
Speaker 2: be president for another four years, like you cannot be

1999
01:52:30,479 --> 01:52:33,439
Speaker 2: just on a human level, because to be honest with you,

2000
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:36,599
Speaker 2: my lesson has been somewhat the opposite over the past

2001
01:52:37,320 --> 01:52:39,880
Speaker 2: decade of politics, eight years of politics, which is that

2002
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:43,240
Speaker 2: you know, people do change their minds, Like these collitions

2003
01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:46,519
Speaker 2: have shifted a lot totally over the past number of years,

2004
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:50,200
Speaker 2: and they're not just like the you know, partisan automatons

2005
01:52:50,439 --> 01:52:53,360
Speaker 2: that sometimes the pundits kind of paint the mass. So

2006
01:52:53,680 --> 01:52:55,679
Speaker 2: you know, when you see young people shifting, you see

2007
01:52:55,720 --> 01:52:58,760
Speaker 2: Latinos shifting, and you see college educated pooples shifting, and

2008
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 2: the Democrats whatever, you know, people are evaluating the situation.

2009
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:04,959
Speaker 4: As it exists.

2010
01:53:05,240 --> 01:53:09,800
Speaker 2: And I think there were quite a lot who would

2011
01:53:09,880 --> 01:53:12,160
Speaker 2: have looked at because it wouldn't have been it wouldn't

2012
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:14,559
Speaker 2: have stopped with the debate, and you know, we beat Medicare,

2013
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:18,759
Speaker 2: Like there would have been eighteen more Joe Biden's brain

2014
01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:22,280
Speaker 2: is melting out of his ear moments during the campaign,

2015
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:24,920
Speaker 2: and I think many more people would have just been like,

2016
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:27,360
Speaker 2: we just we just can't do that. So we were

2017
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:30,639
Speaker 2: seeing those polls that were like, oh, New Jersey's in play. Oh,

2018
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 2: New Mexico's in play. Oh, like Virginia. I think I

2019
01:53:34,040 --> 01:53:37,000
Speaker 2: think Trump would have probably won Virginia if it was

2020
01:53:37,600 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 2: Joe Biden still on the ticket. Not to mention that

2021
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:44,160
Speaker 2: even though obviously Kama Harris was part of the Biden

2022
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:47,640
Speaker 2: Harris administration, like it was really Joe Biden who was

2023
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:51,439
Speaker 2: the face of supporting the Israeli genocide. And so I

2024
01:53:51,439 --> 01:53:54,439
Speaker 2: think you would have seen even more erosion among young

2025
01:53:54,520 --> 01:53:58,439
Speaker 2: voters because of their just horror at you know, what

2026
01:53:58,520 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 2: he had actively the policy he had actively pursued.

2027
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:04,000
Speaker 3: Although if you are Joe Biden, you look at the

2028
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:07,559
Speaker 3: exit polls and see her underperforming him with all of these,

2029
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:11,040
Speaker 3: like in almost every demographic except for with the wealthy

2030
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:13,240
Speaker 3: and so I see where he's coming from that like

2031
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:15,360
Speaker 3: he's I don't know if this is actually where he's

2032
01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:17,320
Speaker 3: coming from, because I don't know how much he's able

2033
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:21,400
Speaker 3: to actually significcess analyze all this. Yeah, exactly, But there

2034
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 3: also would have been kind of a weird kind of factual.

2035
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:27,840
Speaker 3: There also would have been like media overdrive trying to

2036
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:31,880
Speaker 3: again like take down Trump and whatever. But one of

2037
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:33,880
Speaker 3: the things that I want to agree with in your

2038
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:37,960
Speaker 3: point is, I think it's it's more polarization. It's not

2039
01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:40,400
Speaker 3: R and D polarization so much as it is like,

2040
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:43,520
Speaker 3: I don't care if this man is the host of

2041
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:46,360
Speaker 3: Celebrity Apprentice. I am not. I do not want Hillary

2042
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:48,560
Speaker 3: Clinton to be president, and so I will vote for

2043
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:51,600
Speaker 3: this guy who's out there like saying the create like

2044
01:54:51,640 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 3: telling Robert Patten said to break up with Christian Stewart

2045
01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:58,000
Speaker 3: on Twitter because I don't want Hillary Clinton to be president.

2046
01:54:58,040 --> 01:55:01,360
Speaker 3: And what I underestimated or what I overestimated, was the

2047
01:55:01,400 --> 01:55:03,640
Speaker 3: extent to there was still that level of polarization against

2048
01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:07,000
Speaker 3: Donald Trump. And so it's still there. Obviously a lot

2049
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:08,640
Speaker 3: of people who are like I'll vote for anybody but

2050
01:55:08,720 --> 01:55:11,120
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, but it's not as significant as it was

2051
01:55:11,400 --> 01:55:13,480
Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen or whatever, and I think that's one

2052
01:55:13,480 --> 01:55:17,080
Speaker 3: of the things that media is grappling with right now.

2053
01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:20,000
Speaker 3: And what we learned from that big Wall Street Journal

2054
01:55:20,080 --> 01:55:23,320
Speaker 3: profile of Joe Biden that came out right before Christmas

2055
01:55:23,320 --> 01:55:28,640
Speaker 3: also is that he is being coddled from any negative media,

2056
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:32,320
Speaker 3: that his aides are not passing any negative media onto him,

2057
01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:36,960
Speaker 3: which you know, there has been some. There has been

2058
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 3: as much as there should, but there has been some.

2059
01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:42,120
Speaker 3: And it probably speaks to this as well, Crystal, that

2060
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 3: you know, he's looking at where Kamala Harris underperformed her

2061
01:55:45,440 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 3: level of popularity and her talents as a politician, and

2062
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:52,680
Speaker 3: it all seems so obvious now. Is one of the

2063
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:54,520
Speaker 3: things that Ryan said before the election that has stuck

2064
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:56,360
Speaker 3: with me. He said it like on election night. I

2065
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:58,280
Speaker 3: don't know if you remember. This was like, as we

2066
01:55:58,280 --> 01:55:59,880
Speaker 3: were looking at everything, he was like, we're going to

2067
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:01,240
Speaker 3: back on this and it was going to be one

2068
01:56:01,280 --> 01:56:03,440
Speaker 3: of those elections where it seems so obvious once we

2069
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:06,560
Speaker 3: know it. Actually, Yeah, I feel like there's probably some

2070
01:56:06,640 --> 01:56:08,200
Speaker 3: of that in dem circles right now.

2071
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, very very true.

2072
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:13,600
Speaker 2: It's also so that Wall Street Journal piece, which really

2073
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:16,800
Speaker 2: was the first attempt to detail the cover up, which

2074
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:20,000
Speaker 2: has to be one of the gravest political scandals of

2075
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 2: our time, just of Joe Biden's clear decline. You know,

2076
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:27,440
Speaker 2: they have anecdotes there from the spring of twenty twenty one,

2077
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:31,880
Speaker 2: so like this man had just been elected, and they're like, well,

2078
01:56:31,960 --> 01:56:34,040
Speaker 2: he has good days and bad days, and today's a

2079
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:36,280
Speaker 2: bad days. So we can't have the meeting, Like what

2080
01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:38,839
Speaker 2: this is the president of the United States. I'm sorry,

2081
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:41,760
Speaker 2: you're on twenty four to seven. That's what the job is.

2082
01:56:42,280 --> 01:56:46,640
Speaker 2: And from the very beginning, his aids knew he was

2083
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:51,480
Speaker 2: not up to the job, and that decline only accelerated

2084
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:55,760
Speaker 2: over the course of his administration. And you know, if

2085
01:56:55,760 --> 01:57:00,520
Speaker 2: you're someone who wanted, like me, wanted to defeat Donald Trump,

2086
01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:03,040
Speaker 2: the fact that the people around him covered all this

2087
01:57:03,200 --> 01:57:06,480
Speaker 2: up allowed for there to be, you know, the cancelation

2088
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:11,320
Speaker 2: of the Democratic primary, no ability for Democratic voters to

2089
01:57:11,360 --> 01:57:14,280
Speaker 2: get to weigh in on my ctis just arrived to

2090
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:17,040
Speaker 2: get to weigh in on who they would like to

2091
01:57:17,040 --> 01:57:19,560
Speaker 2: see and who they thought would be the strongest contender.

2092
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 2: And you know, for them to have a chance too,

2093
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:25,640
Speaker 2: to separate themselves from someone who ended up being a

2094
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:30,080
Speaker 2: very unpopular president like was a This was a devastating

2095
01:57:30,280 --> 01:57:32,600
Speaker 2: decision that they made. And look, there are no guarantees

2096
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:35,240
Speaker 2: whoever would have come out of that process would have

2097
01:57:35,240 --> 01:57:38,320
Speaker 2: had a tough battle on their hands against Donald Trump,

2098
01:57:38,680 --> 01:57:41,480
Speaker 2: but would have had a much better shot than just

2099
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:44,840
Speaker 2: last minute putting in Kamala Harris, who was not a

2100
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 2: good politician and who you know, hadn't had to earn

2101
01:57:48,520 --> 01:57:51,440
Speaker 2: the votes to secure that nomination and so didn't have

2102
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:55,240
Speaker 2: like a bought in established base, all of those things.

2103
01:57:55,640 --> 01:57:58,120
Speaker 2: It really is extraordinary. And then you know, so this

2104
01:57:58,160 --> 01:58:00,200
Speaker 2: was kind of interesting. Wanted to play this for everybody.

2105
01:58:00,240 --> 01:58:03,480
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of reflection of this happening in

2106
01:58:03,680 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 2: the news media where you have a journalist who says,

2107
01:58:07,080 --> 01:58:10,200
Speaker 2: you know, the biggest mistake, the most undercovered story was

2108
01:58:10,360 --> 01:58:13,720
Speaker 2: Joe Biden's decline, and the media really failed in not

2109
01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:15,160
Speaker 2: pushing on that. Let's take a listen.

2110
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:17,120
Speaker 8: One of the things we also do in the year

2111
01:58:17,200 --> 01:58:21,440
Speaker 8: end Correspondence round Table is dig into what was undercovered

2112
01:58:21,520 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 8: or under reported.

2113
01:58:22,640 --> 01:58:28,520
Speaker 13: Jan undercovered underreported that would be to me, Joe Biden's

2114
01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:32,600
Speaker 13: obvious cognitive decline that became undeniable in.

2115
01:58:32,560 --> 01:58:34,560
Speaker 3: The televised at the presidential debate.

2116
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:37,720
Speaker 13: With unquestioned and you know, it's starting to emerge now

2117
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:42,880
Speaker 13: that his advisors kind of managed his limitations and reported

2118
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:46,240
Speaker 13: in the Wall Street Journal for four years and yet

2119
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:48,400
Speaker 13: he insisted that he could still run for president. We

2120
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:52,320
Speaker 13: should have much more forcefully questioned whether he was fit

2121
01:58:52,680 --> 01:58:54,960
Speaker 13: for office for another four years, which could have led

2122
01:58:54,960 --> 01:58:57,840
Speaker 13: to a primary for the Democrats. It could have changed

2123
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:02,920
Speaker 13: the scope of the entire election. Yet still, incredibly we

2124
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:05,560
Speaker 13: read the Washington Post that his advisors are saying that

2125
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:08,720
Speaker 13: he regrets that he dropped out of the race. You

2126
01:59:08,760 --> 01:59:10,760
Speaker 13: know that he thinks he could have beaten Trump.

2127
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:13,120
Speaker 3: And I think that is either delusional or their gas laing.

2128
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:15,720
Speaker 14: President Biden has said repeatedly he was sick during the

2129
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:18,960
Speaker 14: debate June twenty seventh, Atlanta, and he's always been fine,

2130
01:59:19,160 --> 01:59:22,800
Speaker 14: and he leaves fine. That is his position, the position

2131
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 14: of many of his top ages as well.

2132
01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:29,040
Speaker 2: Thanks Bob, and I love the coming in of well

2133
01:59:29,400 --> 01:59:32,040
Speaker 2: he was second the debate, Like, I don't know if

2134
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:33,880
Speaker 2: he was just saying that to give their side of

2135
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:36,320
Speaker 2: the story. He was actually trying to uncover for them,

2136
01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:39,600
Speaker 2: but it didn't come off well. But you know again

2137
01:59:39,720 --> 01:59:42,480
Speaker 2: another instance of now that it's too late to matter.

2138
01:59:42,560 --> 01:59:44,520
Speaker 2: The media is like, oh gee, maybe we should have

2139
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:47,760
Speaker 2: actually covered this. But they read all of the questions

2140
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:51,520
Speaker 2: about Biden's age and decline. They read this as just

2141
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:56,320
Speaker 2: like an unfair right wing smear until it was at

2142
01:59:56,320 --> 02:00:02,400
Speaker 2: that debate, completely undeniable, completely undeniable. And you know, people

2143
02:00:02,480 --> 02:00:05,080
Speaker 2: like me and Zagger and I'm sure you and Ryan,

2144
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:07,400
Speaker 2: like all of us, even going back to the twenty

2145
02:00:07,440 --> 02:00:11,360
Speaker 2: twenty primary twenty nineteen, Yeah, like, look at him now

2146
02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:13,760
Speaker 2: versus look at him in the past. This is an

2147
02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:16,040
Speaker 2: old man, like he is declining. He is not the

2148
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:19,560
Speaker 2: same person he used to be. And that conversation was

2149
02:00:19,760 --> 02:00:21,680
Speaker 2: not allowed at all at the point.

2150
02:00:21,680 --> 02:00:22,520
Speaker 4: Oh he had a stutter.

2151
02:00:22,560 --> 02:00:25,200
Speaker 2: It's just his stutteries, just recovering from this, don't be ables,

2152
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:28,400
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. And now here we are now

2153
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter, They're like.

2154
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:31,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that was true. I guess we should

2155
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:33,560
Speaker 4: have looked into that a little bit. What's what are

2156
02:00:33,600 --> 02:00:34,000
Speaker 4: you going to do?

2157
02:00:34,400 --> 02:00:36,640
Speaker 3: I think this played a critical role in the reckoning

2158
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:38,760
Speaker 3: that changed what we were talking about in terms of

2159
02:00:38,760 --> 02:00:42,720
Speaker 3: polarization against Donald Trump in the last couple of years,

2160
02:00:42,880 --> 02:00:45,560
Speaker 3: like just like the way that we talk about cancel

2161
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:49,520
Speaker 3: culture and wokeness, like there's this weird thing happening in

2162
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:52,480
Speaker 3: the culture. And I think what the Biden cover up

2163
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:56,040
Speaker 3: became a really big part of this because there were

2164
02:00:56,080 --> 02:00:59,560
Speaker 3: obvious signs of sinility going back to twenty nineteen. Yeah,

2165
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:02,880
Speaker 3: and a lot of people still said I am voting

2166
02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:05,880
Speaker 3: for Joe Biden because I cannot deal with Donald Trump,

2167
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:08,120
Speaker 3: Like this is not a vote for Joe Biden so

2168
02:01:08,160 --> 02:01:10,160
Speaker 3: much as it's a vote against Donald Trump. And then

2169
02:01:10,200 --> 02:01:13,480
Speaker 3: by the time twenty twenty four rolls around, there's this,

2170
02:01:14,240 --> 02:01:17,160
Speaker 3: you know, the trusted media goes back to the record

2171
02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:19,840
Speaker 3: low that had hit in twenty seventeen according to Gallup's polling.

2172
02:01:20,360 --> 02:01:22,320
Speaker 3: And I think a huge part of that is because

2173
02:01:22,840 --> 02:01:27,240
Speaker 3: cover up implies the media allowed something to be covered up. Right,

2174
02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:29,600
Speaker 3: the people who are supposed to prevent something from being

2175
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:34,400
Speaker 3: covered up are journalists. And that is necessarily, even though

2176
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:39,760
Speaker 3: she doesn't frame it this way, necessarily a concession of complicity,

2177
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:43,440
Speaker 3: of saying that we were a part of this, and

2178
02:01:44,040 --> 02:01:47,600
Speaker 3: what we're not seeing in media is grappling with that.

2179
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:51,760
Speaker 3: We're saying, oh, the Biden administration was so cynical and dastardly,

2180
02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:54,200
Speaker 3: and they told us he was fine. It's like you

2181
02:01:54,280 --> 02:01:57,400
Speaker 3: knew he wasn't. I know, you knew he wasn't because

2182
02:01:57,400 --> 02:02:00,280
Speaker 3: you saw all of the same videos and you actually

2183
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:02,880
Speaker 3: had more access than the average American who knew that

2184
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:06,440
Speaker 3: he wasn't. So what shattered public trust? This may have

2185
02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:08,160
Speaker 3: been like the straw that broke the camel's back. There

2186
02:02:08,160 --> 02:02:10,440
Speaker 3: are many things that shattered public trust, but this was

2187
02:02:10,480 --> 02:02:11,280
Speaker 3: a huge part of it.

2188
02:02:11,720 --> 02:02:13,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, no doubt about it.

2189
02:02:13,240 --> 02:02:15,480
Speaker 2: And you know, I think this is part of the

2190
02:02:15,520 --> 02:02:21,280
Speaker 2: story of why I think liberals have now broken a

2191
02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:25,160
Speaker 2: lot of trust with like they are also not trusting

2192
02:02:25,240 --> 02:02:28,160
Speaker 2: the mainstream press as much as they used to. I mean,

2193
02:02:28,200 --> 02:02:30,520
Speaker 2: that's what allowed Biden to be able to succeed, to

2194
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:32,960
Speaker 2: succeed in that twenty twenty primary was because the media

2195
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:35,200
Speaker 2: was like, this is the guy. You have no choice

2196
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:36,600
Speaker 2: but to vote for him. He's the only one that

2197
02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:38,880
Speaker 2: could be Trump. And liberals were like, Okay, I guess

2198
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:40,280
Speaker 2: he's the only one it could be Trump. I'm not

2199
02:02:40,280 --> 02:02:41,960
Speaker 2: gonna ask questions. I'm just going to pull the lever

2200
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:44,600
Speaker 2: for Joe Biden. And it is what it is. And

2201
02:02:45,720 --> 02:02:51,000
Speaker 2: you know, Obviously that strategy was ultimately a failure. Donald

2202
02:02:51,040 --> 02:02:54,000
Speaker 2: Trump is headed back to the White House. The resistant

2203
02:02:54,040 --> 02:02:58,080
Speaker 2: strategy offered by the media was ultimately a failure. Many

2204
02:02:58,200 --> 02:03:01,480
Speaker 2: of the media figures that were kind of lionized in

2205
02:03:01,520 --> 02:03:03,720
Speaker 2: the resistance, Sarah, Joe and Mika being the most you know,

2206
02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:08,800
Speaker 2: visible totems of this, have now basically been like, well,

2207
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:10,520
Speaker 2: Trump's here, I'm sure it'll be okay, we'll go make

2208
02:03:10,600 --> 02:03:15,680
Speaker 2: nice with him. After having such incredibly you know, heated

2209
02:03:15,760 --> 02:03:17,800
Speaker 2: rhetoric around who he was and what he was going

2210
02:03:17,880 --> 02:03:19,800
Speaker 2: to do and what it meant, what the stakes were, etcetera.

2211
02:03:20,360 --> 02:03:24,000
Speaker 2: And so it really has exposed them as being frauds,

2212
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:28,640
Speaker 2: as as not really meaning the things that they were saying,

2213
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:32,080
Speaker 2: and also as being failures in terms of the political

2214
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:35,320
Speaker 2: program that they offered in order to try to defeat

2215
02:03:35,360 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 2: trump Ism. So I mean, that's ultimately what it comes

2216
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:39,680
Speaker 2: down to is like you said this was the way

2217
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:42,000
Speaker 2: to succeed, and it didn't succeed. Here we are with

2218
02:03:42,040 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 2: Donald Trump coming back into the White House, and you

2219
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:46,280
Speaker 2: don't even seem all that upset about it. So how

2220
02:03:46,360 --> 02:03:49,040
Speaker 2: what are we supposed to make of that? But but yeah,

2221
02:03:49,240 --> 02:03:53,120
Speaker 2: it's an extraordinary. You can't even just call it a

2222
02:03:53,160 --> 02:03:55,400
Speaker 2: media failure because I think you're right, Emily, I think

2223
02:03:55,440 --> 02:03:59,520
Speaker 2: there's too much complicity. It's not like they were hoodwinked, right.

2224
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:01,880
Speaker 3: Right, some of them were. Some of them were. They're

2225
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:06,280
Speaker 3: really dumby, but some of them are truly stupid people.

2226
02:04:06,360 --> 02:04:09,520
Speaker 2: But all some of them videos that we were watching,

2227
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:12,760
Speaker 2: you were also seeing and you were buying into what

2228
02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:16,520
Speaker 2: was the term that Korean John cheer fakes cheap fakes. Oh,

2229
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:17,920
Speaker 2: it's taken out of context.

2230
02:04:19,400 --> 02:04:21,600
Speaker 3: And as soon as Karan, Jean Pierre and the White

2231
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:25,240
Speaker 3: House started dropping that term cheap fakes, the media and

2232
02:04:25,440 --> 02:04:28,360
Speaker 3: legacy media major institutions like The New York Times took

2233
02:04:28,360 --> 02:04:31,720
Speaker 3: it like a press release and reported it back, regurgitated

2234
02:04:31,720 --> 02:04:35,040
Speaker 3: it like they were literally taking the Biden administration's press release.

2235
02:04:35,080 --> 02:04:37,240
Speaker 3: It was disgusting. And if you go back and look

2236
02:04:37,240 --> 02:04:40,960
Speaker 3: at some of the covers from May June, middle of June,

2237
02:04:41,640 --> 02:04:45,320
Speaker 3: the June teenth freeze up, the Obama fundraiser, I mean,

2238
02:04:45,360 --> 02:04:49,160
Speaker 3: it's despicable in retrospect. So it's most of them aren't

2239
02:04:49,200 --> 02:04:50,720
Speaker 3: that dumb. Some of them are, And I think it's

2240
02:04:50,720 --> 02:04:52,680
Speaker 3: always fun to make note of that. Some of them

2241
02:04:52,720 --> 02:04:55,120
Speaker 3: are just like truly stupid individuals.

2242
02:04:54,480 --> 02:04:56,000
Speaker 4: But easily manipulated.

2243
02:04:56,520 --> 02:05:00,280
Speaker 3: Yes, it's that low IQ individuals.

2244
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:02,920
Speaker 2: Well, Emily, thank you so much for hosting with me today.

2245
02:05:03,440 --> 02:05:05,560
Speaker 2: We are going to do in light of the New

2246
02:05:05,640 --> 02:05:08,360
Speaker 2: Year's holiday, we are going to not do show tomorrow,

2247
02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:10,640
Speaker 2: but we will do a show on Thursday and it

2248
02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:14,680
Speaker 2: will be me and Emily back again. So, Emily, do

2249
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:17,200
Speaker 2: you are you a New Year's resolution person? You got

2250
02:05:17,240 --> 02:05:20,200
Speaker 2: anything you're planning for in the New Year's or excited

2251
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:21,840
Speaker 2: about in the New Year's anything you want to share?

2252
02:05:22,280 --> 02:05:25,000
Speaker 3: Absolutely not, Crystal. I don't believe in resolutions and I

2253
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:29,640
Speaker 3: don't believe in optimism. So I'm expecting another mediocre year.

2254
02:05:29,680 --> 02:05:30,200
Speaker 3: What about you?

2255
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:34,600
Speaker 2: Mediocre is probably the height of my ambitions for the year.

2256
02:05:35,480 --> 02:05:39,200
Speaker 2: That's generous of the world in the country. So I

2257
02:05:39,280 --> 02:05:41,360
Speaker 2: was telling you, I've decided I need to learn more

2258
02:05:41,360 --> 02:05:43,760
Speaker 2: about AI because.

2259
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:44,480
Speaker 3: You should ask AI.

2260
02:05:45,360 --> 02:05:47,400
Speaker 2: Well, I have been in part what do I need

2261
02:05:47,440 --> 02:05:50,440
Speaker 2: to know about should I be scared chat GPD?

2262
02:05:51,840 --> 02:05:52,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I do.

2263
02:05:53,040 --> 02:05:58,320
Speaker 2: I want to have a more textured understanding of if

2264
02:05:58,320 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 2: I should be as scared as I think I'm should be.

2265
02:06:01,240 --> 02:06:03,000
Speaker 2: And this is you know, we talked a lot about

2266
02:06:03,040 --> 02:06:04,960
Speaker 2: Elon and the H and B workers and whatever, and

2267
02:06:04,960 --> 02:06:08,640
Speaker 2: that's sort of a side show to the main event,

2268
02:06:09,160 --> 02:06:12,280
Speaker 2: which is the real reason he would put so much

2269
02:06:12,320 --> 02:06:14,520
Speaker 2: money in and David Sax and all these people will

2270
02:06:14,520 --> 02:06:17,040
Speaker 2: get involved. Is they really want a freehand to be

2271
02:06:17,120 --> 02:06:21,280
Speaker 2: able to do whatever they want in terms of AI development.

2272
02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:26,480
Speaker 2: And you know that has the potential to be I

2273
02:06:26,560 --> 02:06:31,240
Speaker 2: mean some would say world ending, right like species ending potentially,

2274
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:34,880
Speaker 2: like in the most dystopian scenarios, but even in the

2275
02:06:34,920 --> 02:06:40,720
Speaker 2: least dystopian scenarios, you could have massive disruptions of the

2276
02:06:40,800 --> 02:06:43,560
Speaker 2: labor force and you know, changes to the way we

2277
02:06:43,640 --> 02:06:47,920
Speaker 2: all think about each other, think about work, think about society,

2278
02:06:48,040 --> 02:06:50,520
Speaker 2: et cetera. And so one of my goals in the

2279
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:52,800
Speaker 2: new year is to try to like have a more

2280
02:06:52,840 --> 02:06:55,240
Speaker 2: textured understanding of that, to know if this is just

2281
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:59,800
Speaker 2: like hyperbole and if there's you know, everything will be fine,

2282
02:07:00,080 --> 02:07:02,360
Speaker 2: They've got it and it's okay, or if there are

2283
02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:04,920
Speaker 2: you know, some deeper things to really be concerned about,

2284
02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:07,080
Speaker 2: because I think that's going to be probably the most

2285
02:07:07,080 --> 02:07:10,880
Speaker 2: important fight that we watch unfold throughout the coming years.

2286
02:07:11,240 --> 02:07:14,160
Speaker 3: It actually splits Trump world in a similar way to

2287
02:07:14,160 --> 02:07:16,600
Speaker 3: the H one b visus as well. So the incoming

2288
02:07:16,640 --> 02:07:18,880
Speaker 3: administration I think is and it does the same thing

2289
02:07:18,880 --> 02:07:24,120
Speaker 3: in democrats, but it's a pretty there's not a clear

2290
02:07:24,200 --> 02:07:28,360
Speaker 3: like populist position, and there's not a clear tech position,

2291
02:07:28,480 --> 02:07:30,240
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of big tech that's trying to

2292
02:07:30,240 --> 02:07:32,200
Speaker 3: control AI, and there's a lot of big tech that's

2293
02:07:32,240 --> 02:07:34,240
Speaker 3: trying to like the mark and treasons that are trying

2294
02:07:34,240 --> 02:07:36,880
Speaker 3: to democratize AI. So much to be.

2295
02:07:36,920 --> 02:07:39,800
Speaker 2: Said, yes indeed, Well, in any case, happy new year

2296
02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:42,280
Speaker 2: to you, Emily, and happy new year to all of

2297
02:07:42,280 --> 02:07:44,360
Speaker 2: you guys out there. I am not mentally prepared for

2298
02:07:44,400 --> 02:07:46,520
Speaker 2: it to be twenty twenty five personally, so I'll be

2299
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:48,560
Speaker 2: spending the next few days wrap my head around that.

2300
02:07:49,120 --> 02:07:53,000
Speaker 2: And if you aren't a subscriber, if you can become

2301
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:55,360
Speaker 2: a premium subscriber, obviously that's going to help us a

2302
02:07:55,400 --> 02:07:57,240
Speaker 2: lot in the new year to be able to cover

2303
02:07:57,280 --> 02:07:59,520
Speaker 2: these stories in the way that we want to and

2304
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:02,320
Speaker 2: provide you guys with the best possible content. If you're

2305
02:08:02,360 --> 02:08:05,640
Speaker 2: not able to become a premium subscriber, totally cool. If

2306
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:08,800
Speaker 2: you can help us out by liking and sharing on YouTube,

2307
02:08:09,680 --> 02:08:12,520
Speaker 2: leaving comments like leaving a review on the podcast also

2308
02:08:12,560 --> 02:08:15,600
Speaker 2: helps out a lot, so in any case, so grateful

2309
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:19,600
Speaker 2: for you guys sticking with us this year. We've seen

2310
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:21,680
Speaker 2: a lot. I guess I'll just say that we've seen

2311
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:24,960
Speaker 2: seen a lot. It's been a wild ride and looking

2312
02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:27,360
Speaker 2: forward to covering all of the wild events of twenty

2313
02:08:27,400 --> 02:08:29,640
Speaker 2: twenty five with you all. Soon see you on Thursday.

2314
02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 5: Keep Keep