1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: Crime and unemployment were still high, but it was mourning 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: in corporate America. The Dow was up by a third 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: and six months, and the go go eighties had begun. 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Among the many who landed in New York to make 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: their fortune that year was a hot shot magazine editor 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: from London who would chronicle and then shape that decade 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: like no other. Tina Brown was twenty nine years old. 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: Her story became inseparable from that of her creation, a 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: relaunched nineteen twenties glossy that came to define the Reagan era. 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair. Brown was a decisive boss, an instinctive editor, 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: and a pioneer of layout. But that's only a part 13 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: of what secured her place on top of New York society. 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: She brought to her dinner parties and outsider's power of 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: social observation and a wit so sharp you didn't know 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: you were bleeding until you were halfway home. But Tina 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: Brown can tell her own story. She did, in fact, 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: in real time. Her new book, Vanity Fair Diaries, as 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: a series of diary entries, starting the day she first 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: landed in New York for Vanity Fair Wednesday made the 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: first Thursday January Monday Wednesday of Sunday, April tenth three, 22 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: I am here in NYC at last, brimming with fear 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: and insecurity, getting in late last night on British airways. 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: I suddenly felt the enormousness of New York City. And 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: she made it to the big leagues because four years earlier, 26 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: barely out of Oxford, Tina Brown landed the editorship of 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: a languishing old magazine called Tatler after everyone else turned 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: down the job, and I turned it into this very 29 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: buzzy little glossy and signed new House, who was then 30 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: the chairman of Conninnass. Then after two years and me 31 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: editing it three years, he came in and he bore 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: it for Connas. So that's how I joined conn asked, 33 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: was that I was really brought into the family of 34 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Connynas with Tatler and you over there when I was 35 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: in London, And how long did you do that under 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: his ownership? Well? I left actually after about a year 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: because the Tatler had been this kind of scrappy little startup, 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: and when Connynas bought it, I missed the insurgent nature 39 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: of the public. You know. I I loved having my 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: little team of insurgents, these young turks that I had 41 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: out of college. And then when Conny Nass brought it, 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: I felt it had become a sort of stately thing, 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: and I just, you know, I love being in the 44 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: kind of the rebel band, you know, so I left. Actually, 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: people don't normally put you in the rebel band. Well, 46 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: I know, some pretty ivory towers, right, but rebel band 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: is where I began, and I love that. And I 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: had a very brilliant young group who all went on 49 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: to do great things at Connas. So I left. And 50 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 1: then as I left, I kept hearing that Connyn Asked 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: had launched this new magazine in America, Vanity Fair, that 52 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: this was they were bringing back this icon, this old 53 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: magazine of the twenties and thirties that had had all 54 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: these amazing you know, people like Claire Booth Loosen and 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: Dorothy Parker and so on writing for it. And I 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: was very attracted to that because I'm a sort of 57 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: magazine romantic, so I never thought I would get to 58 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: edit it, but I you know, we heard it, like 59 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: the music in the other room. Then Conan Has launched 60 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair in eighty three, and it was a complete debarkle, 61 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, the first two arts. But it was one 62 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: of those things where the sort of the pre hype 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: sort of almost killed the magazine. It was a complete 64 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: dissonance between the magazine they were advertising and hyping and 65 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: the magazine they put out. They what was the chasm 66 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: between the two. The chasm between the two was that 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: they said, great magazine comes back from the dead, legendary magazine. 68 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: You'll never see anything more exciting, more glamorous, more important 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: than this magazine. And then they had a very bookish, 70 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: very you know, a nerdy, smart guy from the New 71 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: York Times who've never been a magazine editor. His name 72 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: was Richard Lock, okay, and you know, on paper he 73 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: was a good hire. He was a brainy guy, but 74 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: he never done a magazine. And magazines it's it's all 75 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: about the chemistry of the words and the pictures and 76 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: the headlines and the you know, and the captions and 77 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: all the things that make a magazine dance. He didn't 78 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: know how to do that. So it was a very 79 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: boring magazine who was after him. And then they had 80 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: they fired him and brought on Leo Lehman, who was 81 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: the former editor of features editor Vogue. He was a 82 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: kind of seventy five year old, you know, culture maven, 83 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: old kind of gossipy old guy who know who was 84 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: the sort of the darling of the ladies who lunch 85 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: completely antique, had absolutely no concept of how to do 86 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: this thing at all. He then flamed out, and when 87 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: he was there, I was asked by by Connyan asked 88 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: to come in and sort of consult because I then 89 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: left out or and they thought, all of this young 90 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: turk who you know who then split, let's bring her 91 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: into American contynent asked to see whether she can help 92 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: old Leo kind of get the thing right, and the 93 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: consult the payment to consult. And I spent three months 94 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: there and I realized that Leah was never going to 95 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: get this right, that he was a complete fiasco. Um. 96 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: He was fiercely jealous of me anyway and didn't want 97 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: me anywhere near it. And I realized, Hey, I could 98 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: do this thing. Why am I being so timid? You 99 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: wanted to? I then really wanted to. Yes, I decided 100 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: I'd made a mistake not sort of pitching myself to 101 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: do it, that I should have pitched myself to do it. 102 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: I kind of felt that I had whipped out by 103 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: not saying to them at the beginning, I'd love to 104 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: do this from the time you finished a tattlet and 105 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: then your consultancy less, how long before you take over 106 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair? Um, it was about nine months, not even 107 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: a year, and yeah, yeah, and I came back. So 108 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: my Vanity Fair diaries really sort of begin at that 109 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: time because I came in as a consultant in in 110 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: the summer of eighty three with Leo, and the diaries 111 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: sort of showed the rising realization that I should be 112 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: the editor of this magazine. This magazine and I were 113 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: made to make music together. I left New York, went 114 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: back to London, and they finally and brought me back 115 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: as editor. In so to the extent that you can say, 116 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: I mean, all people really have in the popular culture 117 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: is um Devil Wears Prada and all these very very 118 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: kind of theatrical representations of the world of publishing. Is 119 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: it really that one person has to dominate and their 120 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: will has to call the day you had to sit 121 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: there with a group of people say it's got to 122 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: be this and this that you took their advice. What 123 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: did you do? I mean, a great editor isn't an autocrat. 124 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: I mean you have to have a vision, in the 125 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: same way the director has to have a vision of 126 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: a movie, and you have us to have a world view. Two. 127 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean, my my feeling was that Vanity Fair. I 128 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: knew what I wanted to do with Vanity Fair. I 129 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: wanted to combine the elegance and glamor of the magazine, 130 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: of the famous magazine of the twenties and thirties, with 131 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: some of that narrative gristle of journalism that had then 132 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: become the sort of defining feature of the great magazines 133 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: of them the seventies and eighties, like Rolling Stone, like 134 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: New York Magazine. So I wanted to modernize that formula, 135 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: if you like, and then bring a kind of real 136 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: modern spin. And the modern spin I brought because this 137 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: was we were in the Reagan era, right we just 138 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: roll Reagan was on a glide path to re election. 139 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: I came in as a London outsider who didn't know 140 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: really much about America, and I was just plunged into 141 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: this world of Reagan's America, which was this kind of 142 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: black tie wildly consumers, you know, Bob, he was on 143 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: the magazine. It was just, I mean, it boggles my 144 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: mind when I when I read the diaries now and 145 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: when I started to compile them, how much we went out. 146 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: I mean every night. It was like I had red 147 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: nails and the long dress, and it was like the 148 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: black tie dinners and the higher New York, New York 149 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: and Higher New York. You know, Nancy Reagan and her Walkers, 150 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: and Jerry Zipkin was this socialite with a face like 151 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: a b Day That's exactly. You got those names and 152 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: they were out there, you know, and it was enormous 153 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: fund to cover it. And then in the meantime in 154 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: then in l A there was all this kind of 155 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: the rise of the Spellings, you know, and Andy Spelling 156 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: and the big houses and the monster mansions and the 157 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: whole of this thing. So it was a wonderful world 158 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: to cover. And I sort of felt that our mission 159 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: was to dramatize it, make it saying in our pages. 160 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: And I had my very first hire as a writer 161 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: actually was Dominic Dunne. And Dominic Dunne I first met 162 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: when I came as a consultant in the summer at 163 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: the dinner party of Marie Brenner, who was a vanity affair, 164 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: and he was this out of work film producer, and 165 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: he was next to me, and he was so great, 166 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: and he was so entertaining and dinner and then he 167 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: told me this horrendous story that his daughter had been 168 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: murdered and he was on his way out to l 169 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: A to the trial of his daughter's murderer. And I said, 170 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: why don't you keep a diary? Being a great darist myself, 171 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: I said, you know, keep a diary. Maybe you would 172 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: make it into something to read, and I'd love to 173 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: publish it. So he his eyes lit up, and off 174 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: he went. And the piece that he brought back, which 175 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: was published in the magazine, was an absolutely epic piece 176 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: of sort of narrative personal journalism. So my very first 177 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: high when I came back and as editor in eighty four, 178 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: I said to Nick, you know, I want you to 179 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: be my first hire. I want to get a chowd 180 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: of writers who can define the magazine. And that's, of 181 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: course what he helped to do. Now, for those who 182 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: don't know this, you kept copious diary entries. What is 183 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: it about you that you're such a dedicated diarist. I've 184 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: tried that myself. I've got boxes when have books in 185 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: them and notebooks, and some of them have those little 186 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: diary like looks them and you open and doesn't mean 187 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: maybe like a week's worth of entries and then's gone. Well, 188 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: I think I'm a compulsive reporter. Actually, I mean, I 189 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: have what I think of as observation greed. Right, most 190 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: of the time, I'm propelled to go out, not because 191 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: I actually want to go out, but I think I 192 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: got to see that, you know, I need to see that. Curious, 193 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: I'm really curious, and I have a great desire to 194 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: report on on on the action, if you like. So 195 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: I've always done that. I've always because I was alone. 196 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: My husband at that time, Harry Evans, was actually in 197 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: Washington working. It was a predigital era, so I would 198 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: come back from these black tie dinners and I would 199 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: be on my own. I hadn't got kids at that moment, 200 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: and I sat down and just it was like wanting 201 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: to talk to a friend. And so it was literally 202 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: sort of dear Dairy almost you know that, I just 203 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: gushed it all that. Plus I was from London and 204 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: so I it was all new to me, everything about 205 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: this place was wild. I had never seen such excess, 206 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: such money as such. You know. I was fascinated both 207 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: in a sense so that it was a little decadent. 208 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: My dad was a movie producer, he was My mom 209 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: was Lawrence Olivier's assistant. No, she was Are you kidding me? 210 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'd love to be Lawrence. How long 211 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: a peasant rogan peasant slave? Am I? She was about 212 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: five years and then she married my my dad when 213 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: she was a young woman. She was She married when 214 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: he was assistant when she was young, and she then 215 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: met my father at Pinewood Studios and and they got married, 216 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: and then she became you could have been your dad, 217 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: as she played her cards smartly. Actually, more In O'Hara 218 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: could have been my mother because my father married more 219 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: In O'Hara first. Yes, And it's very funny when when 220 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: I found about ten years ago that more after my 221 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: father just died and I was feeling particularly connected to him, 222 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: I saw that Morgan O'Hara was signing books at some 223 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: bookstore or wasn't it was the opening it was it 224 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: was her movie, the famous Christmas movie right, which I 225 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: lyric Street Miracle on thirty fourth Street. So she was 226 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: there at the movie house. So I said to my 227 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: little girl, you know, then we're going to go and 228 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: see more in O'Hara because she was married to Grandpa, 229 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: and you know, I would I have never met her, 230 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: and I really wanted to produce myself. So I went 231 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: to this thing and there was a big line. I 232 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: interested myself was some miss O'Hara. I'm George Browne's daughter. 233 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: And I thought she was going to say, how wonderful 234 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: to see you, I mean George, and she sturted around 235 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: and she said to me that man had absolutely nothing 236 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: to do with me. I have no desire to meet you. Goodbye. 237 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Well, so it was tragic, sad, you know, 238 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was aghast, but I have 239 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: no idea. The backstory made me immediately think, what the 240 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,599 Speaker 1: hell did you before? Your dad obviously was married to 241 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: your mother and you and you were born to that family. 242 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: Your father had been married to O'Hara, divorced her, and 243 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: then there's no association with her whatsoever. What are some 244 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: of the pictures your father produced? Um, he produced Guns 245 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: of Batasia, that ms Mark Marple's movies. You know with 246 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: Margaret Rutherford, you had no desire to go into the 247 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: film business. No, because I kind of your father's making films, 248 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: he's married to her wisp. You want to go to 249 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: Tatler God to me editing and producing a very very 250 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: similar do you never want to make movies? Vanity Fair 251 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: Diaries has been brought by has been optioned by Bruno 252 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: Papandro who did Big Little Lies. So we might see 253 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: you know that as a screaming video, which would be 254 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: great for Maybe that's a sort of a toe hold in. 255 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: I have lots of ideas for films, actually a lot. 256 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: They're the same things. It's all about wrangling the story, 257 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: storytelling short storytelling, tracking number material real, making the writer 258 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: do the story you want, casting the thing. So I 259 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: always felt actually the producing and writing were very similar. 260 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: The story was the prism into an interesting world. I mean, 261 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: Dominic Dunn stories were particularly in that vein. I mean, 262 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: he did a wonderful story about Betsy Bloomingdale, Alfred mistress. 263 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: Alfred Bloomingdale, the founder of a diner's card. His mistress 264 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: Vicky Morgan was found murdered, and they blamed this guy 265 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: Marvin Pancos, who beat at a death with a baseball back. 266 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: But obviously the tension in the story was was she 267 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: bummed off? Because there had been this huge palimony case, 268 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: And so it allowed Nick Dunn to sort of get 269 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: into the world of the Betsy Bloomingdale society around Mrs 270 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Reagan and tell the story of the sort of slightly 271 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: dark side if you like, of Beverly Hill society. How 272 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: would you describe Nick Dunn? Though? I mean I I 273 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: sensed in my tracking of Nick Dunn's career that he 274 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: was kind of a certain type of writer. Then he 275 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: became after that with his own the murder of his 276 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: daughter and articles like the Bloomingdale When he becomes like 277 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: Tales of Hollywood, it gets a little pulpy. Well, actually, 278 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: he brings a kind of passionate pursuit of justice to it. Actually, 279 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: so when for instance, he did the story of the 280 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: class form Bula murder case in which class Won Bulow 281 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: had been accused of trying to kill his wife, who 282 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: was then in a coma for Sonny bon Bulow, that 283 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: was a way for him to get into the world 284 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: of Newport and that high society. But it also allowed 285 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: him to to sort of pursue justice on behalf of 286 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: the children. So what actually did motivate Nikol, did make 287 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: him better than Pulpy, was that he he was always 288 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: trying to plead to solve things for the victim, because 289 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: you know, he felt himself the victim's rights crusade. And 290 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: that's what gave his pieces such hard So when you 291 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: say you want to go into a world which one 292 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: to just intrigued the hell out of you, you said, there, God, 293 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: I love this piece. And a lot of the foreign 294 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: stories we did, I absolutely loved. I mean, we did 295 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: a wonderful piece about baby Doc the on into the 296 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: strange sort of voodooe atmosphere of Haiti at the time. 297 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: We did wonderful stories about Africa. Alex Schumutov was a 298 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: fantastic writer for US. He did the sort of definitive 299 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: piece about the murder of Diane Fossey, the naturalist, and 300 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: what he what was so great about that pieces Everyone 301 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: was writing about her as a great environmentalist who had 302 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: been sort of kill uh, you know, because of her 303 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: pursuit of against the poachers, But what it really came 304 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: out was how troubled she was herself as a woman, 305 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: and how actually she she really hated the poachers more 306 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: than she loved the animals. That this woman was a 307 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: really disturbed woman actually as the truth, and it was, 308 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: and it was a very interesting sort of look at this, 309 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: But how what makes a woman live on the edge 310 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: like that? So these are the kind of stories that 311 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: drove me and to make me a sign of story, 312 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: I have to feel this abiding curiosity is like what 313 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: is the real story here? Like what are we missing 314 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: in all of this? And there are some stories which 315 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: just grabbed my imagination. I mean I look at someone 316 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: like Rex Tillerson now and I just think what a 317 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: great story Rex Tillerson is not because of the obvious things. 318 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: He's Secretary of State, like what's happening? But I see 319 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: him as a hugely comic character, you know. I to me, 320 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: the story is big corporate ceo whoever one is saluted, 321 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: you know who, who's got in the boardroom. And now 322 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: he's stumbled into this completely insane mess, this lunar ban, 323 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: and he's still playing it as a straight man to 324 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: be going somewhere where he's just dismissed or ignored or 325 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: he's under control. Now somebody said about about Tennison, who 326 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: knows him? To me, he rex runs a very crisp meeting, 327 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: and I was just thinking, like, a crisp meeting is 328 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: the opposite of what he's in. I mean, he's now 329 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: in this rambling, insane asylum, and it's like the message 330 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: has gone completely off. I just can't imagine him working 331 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: for someone else. Wasn't somebody that he had just that 332 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: he thought was impeccable Tillerson working for him? It just 333 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: seems like inconceivable to me. Uh So you're at Vanity 334 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: Fair for what length of time? I was ever eight 335 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: and a half years, and you know, when I took 336 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: it over, they had twelve pages of advertising and by 337 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: the end of course turned into this juggonnaut We had 338 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: one point two million circulations on fifty pages of ads. 339 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: But you know, about a year and a half in 340 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: new house was actually about to close it. And he 341 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: was almost like a kind of James Thurber character because 342 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: he was this short, nervous never she a little man. 343 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: If you you know, he was completely shy. I mean 344 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: he wants, you know, very touchingly kind of We were 345 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: riding home in the car and you know, he said 346 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: to me, I don't think that I don't really think 347 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: I have any power. You know, I have no power. 348 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: And I was thinking, woomen, I said, but say, you 349 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: know you are in random house, you know. He said, yeah. 350 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: But if I told publishers what book to buy, they 351 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't pay any attention to me. And I said, well, well well, 352 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: look at all the magazines. He said, yes, but you 353 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: know the magazine editors don't really, I mean I don't 354 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: think they don't. Could stop me and he said actually, 355 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: and then he mentioned Mr Shaan, who was the editor 356 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: of the New York at the time. He said, and 357 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: I find it very hard to get Mr Sean on 358 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: the phone. So I thought it was so touching in 359 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: a way because here he was this huge mobile but 360 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: he never of his company his company, and he did 361 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: love his editors to be stars. I mean, in a 362 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: way it was great because you know sometimes corporate people 363 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: are sort of don't like their employees to have attention, 364 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: and they're sort of you have to be careful because 365 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: you don't get too much attention. And he loved it. 366 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: He loved he said it as being starred. And you 367 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: know there was me that was Anna Winter, there was 368 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he liked that, and he saw 369 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: us as his studio. Really, where's all the big money 370 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: come in as her own billboards, TV stations, radio? Well, 371 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: the money really there was him and his brother Donald, 372 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: and his father Sam, who was another tiny, never shoot 373 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: little fellow with a lot of drive, you know, built 374 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: this huge newspaper empire from this New Jersey newspaper he 375 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: began at the beginning, and then he bought napolis in 376 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: every town and soon they had this huge newspaper empire. 377 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: So the cash cow was the newspapers actually, and his 378 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: brother Donald ran the newspaper company, and then Sam, the 379 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: old man began to get social aspirations and one day 380 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: his wife, legend says, says, you know how much she'd 381 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: like him to buy a copy of Vogue, And he 382 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: came back and he bought her missing you how she 383 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: bought the company, bought her con in us essentially because 384 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: she had decided she wanted to now be a lady 385 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: who lunches a little bit, you know, and nothing was 386 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: better for that than glossy magazines. So the glossy magazines 387 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: began to of that way. So I basically decided. He 388 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: loved magazines. He always had. He was the east lead 389 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: in the family. Actually, you know, he appreciated art, he 390 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: was fascinated by glamor and magazine culture. So he was 391 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: much better fit for the magazines and the newspapers, and 392 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: he became a really great magazine publisher. Vanity Fair and 393 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: Vogue were enormously profitable. They were in the end. Yeah, 394 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: we took it from I mean, at the beginning Vanity 395 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: fell lost, fought Hi million dollars, and then I came 396 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: in and by the time I left it was in profit. 397 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: And now, of course in after years it's it's a 398 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: big cash because that his gift that he placed the bet, 399 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: and he stayed with the bet. He didn't he didn't falter. Yeah, 400 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: that was what was so great. He stayed with it, 401 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: and he really backed me. I mean, now there was 402 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: a moment of tremor there. I mean a year and 403 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: a half in, you know, we were very much liked 404 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: by readers, but the advertisers were lagging and it was 405 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: still losing money. And I was off in the West 406 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: Coast about to go on the MERV Griffin Show to 407 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: talk about this great cover we had on the Reagans 408 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: Dancing and Kissing, which was one of our great covers, 409 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: and I suddenly realized that, you know, everybody I was 410 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: trying to hire. I was getting stalled and I called 411 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: up the office and I said, what's happening? And they said, well, 412 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: you better come back and talk to Mr. Newhouse, which 413 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: I did, only did discover that he was at the 414 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: point of folding the magazine and I had to really 415 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: trust you. I was a ghast. I said, you can't. 416 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: And I showed him everything I had on the verge. 417 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: We're on the verge, and he gave us another He said, okay, 418 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: you've got another year. And in that year we really 419 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: pulled it out because that's when we had the big 420 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: class one. People. Do you think, what do you think 421 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: it was about you? The guy new House to give 422 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: you another year? What's it about your gift? Actually wanted 423 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: it about him, really, because well I showed him what 424 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: we had. You know, I believed, you believe I believed, 425 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: and I you know, I called everybody in the company. 426 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: I just galvanized everybody to just work on him, and 427 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: I said, you've got to give us. Actually, he said, 428 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: you've got two years, and I always knew that was 429 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: really a year. You know, when they say two years, 430 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: it's really a year. So when the magazine blasts off 431 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: under your tenure and becomes this must read for everybody. 432 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: When does it become a parenty, that's time to go. Well, 433 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: I'm very restless type. I mean in the same way 434 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: I left a Tatler After Vanity Fair. I've been there 435 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: for it and a half years. I had two children. 436 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't want to. I was actually feeling 437 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: a little restless, but I had the young kids, so 438 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be married to Harold. By now 439 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: married to Harold, I had a child of three and 440 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: of war one of one, and I was winning to 441 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: get restive. I was also kind of tired of the 442 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 1: celebrity culture stuff. Actually, well, I got tired of the conversation, 443 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: which is, what can Madonna do Thursday? Or can she 444 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: do Friday? You know she doesn't like the photography. It 445 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: was began to kind of which was your stock and 446 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: you had to kill They were all bread and butter, 447 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: and you know they saw the magazine of course, Vanity 448 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: Fair or Tina Brown. The second half of our conversation 449 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: covers live after Vanity Affair. Her first stop was The 450 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: New Yorker. She was succeeded there by David Remnick. Whom 451 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: she hired on Here's the Thing. Remnick told me there's 452 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: no official system for developing future New Yorker contributors, so 453 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: you might get lucky. The farm system is the mail. 454 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: The farm system is whoever sending us stuff. You know, 455 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: people think I'm kidding around. People email me every day. 456 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: I probably get fifteen emails a day that go directly 457 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: to me, because my email is not that hard to 458 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: figure out. I have an idea. Here's my short story. 459 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: Now most of them are not going to work. Once 460 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: in a while, though it happens. Here more stories from 461 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: The New Yorker's David Remnick had Here's the Thing dot org. 462 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: This is Alec bald And and you were listening to 463 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. Tina Brown retired of catering to celebrities 464 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: at Vanity Fair. She was in the running to be 465 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: transferred to the new jewel and Condieness Crown the New Yorker. 466 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: Things weren't going well there, but the old guard didn't 467 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: want rescuing by the likes of Tina Brown. Rumors were 468 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: flying rather like the beginning when when I kept hearing 469 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: about Vanity Fits. So I had bought The New Yorker 470 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,479 Speaker 1: in the meantime sign New House. He had got rid 471 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: of Mr Shawan, the great legendary editor, and put in 472 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: Bob got Leeb, who's a fantastic book editor, but a 473 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: bit like his mistake at Vanity Fair. It didn't make 474 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: him a great magazine energy and the fact that he 475 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: was a great book is a different thing. And those 476 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: people who would disagree with you are those people who 477 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: they were pretty happy with Bob gott Leeber as the editor. 478 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: Because we're gonna get to the subject of the resistance, 479 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: you agree with No, Actually, I think the people at 480 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: the New Yorker. I mean Bob Gotley was unlucky because 481 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: he followed a great legend, been there for thirty years, 482 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: forty years, right, Mr Shawn was one of the great legends. 483 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: It was Mr Shawn, Mr Shawan, And you had put 484 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: on white gloves in speed to him. And so Paul 485 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: vol Gottli then came into the situation where everybody was 486 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: very upset about now. But then he didn't really know 487 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: how to do a magazine. And you know, he did 488 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 1: some good things, but so but when I came in, 489 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: he said, I'd just done a cover with the Vanity 490 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: Fair with Demi Moore naked and pregnant, and it was 491 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: something of a sensation. Annie was very civilas wonderful thing 492 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: we ever worked with, and so they thought, here comes 493 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: this the girl who did. I'm under the impression that 494 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: the New Yorker it was divided. I mean, I don't 495 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: I don't have any empirical dady, but it was divided 496 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: into two groups. Those who were elated you were coming 497 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: to kind of save the magazine and making improve the sales, 498 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: and those who felt that you weren't. You know, you'd 499 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: left the Oxford behind and you were more tatler than 500 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: Oxford exactly. And you know, I understand why they were nervous. Frankly, 501 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: I mean, why wouldn't they be. But at the very 502 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: first meeting that I had at the New York Or 503 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: there was all of this when I was the first woman, 504 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: obviously because I've only been for it, isn't it all 505 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: been men? So I come into this room and there 506 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: were all of these men sitting around the table and 507 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: talk about then I talk about that, what's it like 508 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: for a woman who's in charge. Well, it was in 509 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: a place like that where I think they were a 510 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: bit more old guard at the times on these places 511 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: here women don't always have a great time. Well, one 512 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: of the writers, and I think it was kind of endemic, 513 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: referred to me as the girl and the wrong dress, okay, 514 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: which really explains in a nutshell the attitude to me, 515 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: which is, like, what is she doing coming in here this? 516 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's a woman who doesn't understand us. And 517 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of resistance, and I 518 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: think some of it was misogynist, There's no doubt about it. 519 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: They really want I just blaze through it, you know. 520 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean you you just like I just rage through it, uh, 521 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, And I want some of them around too, 522 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: you know. Actually, because what I found was, you know, 523 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: one thing, I'm a big believer, and it's really listening 524 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: to who's there, right. So I didn't go in and 525 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: do stuff like just for everybody. I mean I did 526 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: for actually seventy people in the end, but I did 527 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: listen to who was there, and I really made quick 528 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: distinctions about who I thought had and who didn't. And 529 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: there was some wonderful older people there. I mean, people 530 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: like John Updyke and Roger Angel and I mean Lillian Ross. 531 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: These people were absolutely fabulous and golden and they actually 532 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: did welcome me. The people who didn't welcome me were 533 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: the sort of fift year old actually who felt their 534 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: identity depended on the New Yorker. I found that the 535 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: Greatest Generation group, like Brendan Gill and Roger Angel were 536 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: confident enough not to feel their whole identity dependent on 537 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: the fake IVY if you like. Of the William Shawn 538 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: calm mantal, I mean John Updyke was uppre a venture. 539 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: I mean he was sick of doing book reviews. You know, 540 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: he was quite happy to go off and write about 541 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: Oscar Night or something. You know, I mean it was 542 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: it was interesting to me. What did you say to yourself? 543 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: What needed to change their? Well? What I wanted to 544 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: do was to hire a bunch of amazing writers who 545 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: I felt hiring was job one, and I did. I 546 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: mean I heard David Remney, you know who succeeded me. 547 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: I had Malcolm Gladwell, I had Jeffrey Tubin, I had 548 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: Jane Mayer. I had Anthony Lane from London, John Lar. 549 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: Wonderful film with John Lar. I don't like saying that 550 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: because film critics are always kind to me in the point, 551 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: but Lanes a wonderful writer, wonderful writer, absolutely marvelous. He 552 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: was only twenty seven when I hired him. You know, 553 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: I had your own group when the great medical writer 554 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: and act all Gowandi and Henry Lewis Gates. I mean, 555 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: I didn't bring in the most amazing writers and they're 556 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: all still there. And I also brought in some amazing 557 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: editors too, And I actually brought in a lot of women. 558 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: I mean my executive editor, Dorothy Wickenden, who is still 559 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: my managing editor, Pam McCarthy was still there. There were 560 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: all of these great women that I brought into some 561 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: people a lot. When you do that, describe without naming names, 562 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: what's what's that process like? Well, one short and no 563 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: A smarter of fact, I actually think it, Uh, you 564 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: really need to be very sensitive when you when you're 565 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: hiring people. I didn't always get it right. Sometimes it 566 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: blows up and it gets it's wrong or I didn't 567 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: do it right. But when I did it right, I 568 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: actually think it takes several conversations because what I learned 569 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: was the first conversation you have to try to explain 570 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,120 Speaker 1: that this isn't working out, but they don't hear it, 571 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: and there's a second conversation and then the third conversation 572 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: you want someone else to have the conversation. But you know, 573 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: I do feel keeping dignity is incredibly important. Do you 574 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: argue on the side of being generous in terms of 575 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: sefferences and people who they really think they're gonna have 576 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: this job for the rest of their lives probably don't. 577 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: One of the things that was so great about new 578 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: House because I couldn't be generous, and as he let 579 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: me be, he was generous. He really was. Actually, I 580 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: mean that was one of the great things about say 581 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: he didn't as long, you know, once he decided to 582 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: move on, there was never an argument about this person 583 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: is having to hire a lawyer to say I need more. 584 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: You know. He was very generous like that. He would 585 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: just say to people when he had my predecessor at 586 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, he said, look, I'm going to fire him, 587 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: but I'll keep him on for life and I'll tell 588 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: him he can go to Europe. Do I see you? 589 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: I mean, who does that? Honestly, I mean it's pretty unusual. 590 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: And so Sid was wonderful, like, very very generous, and 591 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, we had a tough time, you know, kind 592 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: of getting this thing to work. I mean, it was 593 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: losing uh twenty million when I took it over. Was 594 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: that why was that? Where have those readers gone? It aged? 595 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: You know, something that they had really aged, and we 596 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: just needed to completely spruce up the up in the 597 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: windows from the windows. And actually I brought photography into 598 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: the New Yorker, which I have never had. I brought 599 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: Richard avan And to take pictures. I had our Speelman 600 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: to be one of the cover artists. I've brought in 601 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: his wife, France wife Mooley to be the art director. 602 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: So I really brought my visual sense to them. So 603 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: you bring the tools you have for the other magazines 604 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: to this with some changes, and I resigned it. I 605 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: mean we really sort of facelifted it but kept its 606 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: kind of purity. But where you have um where you 607 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: talk about coming from Vanity Fair with an abundance if 608 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: you will, not exclusively so, but an abundance of celebrity culture, 609 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: you come into the New Yorker, do you decide you 610 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: have to have some you need to start to insert 611 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: a little of that DNA into the New Yorker as well. 612 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: Had friend actually I did, Yeah, he's excellent, But in fact, 613 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: the one I would beg to differ about that. Well, 614 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna have an argument about that. That's okay of 615 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: his own, Okay, I'll leave that with you. Um. For instance, 616 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: Jeff Tubin, who I had as our legal sort of analyst. 617 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: He was an assistant d A at the time, young 618 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: assistant d A, and I wanted to cover law. When 619 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: the O. J. Simpson story broke, Jeff actually had had 620 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 1: two or three pieces that hadn't worked out, and I 621 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: was begin to think, oh my god, I made a 622 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: mistake with this guy. Jeff just talk about The Clintons 623 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite books. Such a wonderful writer. 624 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: But he went off to l A. I said, why 625 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: don't you just go and cover this O. J. Simpson 626 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: thing and see whether this pans out. That story just 627 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: took ahold of Jeff. He broke news on it, and 628 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: he became And what was wonderful was he brought his 629 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: kind of legal rigor to the story, but at the 630 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: same time it was the great compulsively glitzy story of 631 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: our time. That's what I think I did bring into 632 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: the New Yorker DNA was a sense that you know, 633 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: by doing Jeff Tubin on on on O. J. Simpson. 634 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: I kind of set that table, which now today where 635 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: Rodan Fara can do Harvey Weinstein. It's a legitimate subject 636 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: matter far and Harvey Weinst That's another tap I'm going. 637 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: But I want to just I just want to explain 638 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: what I said about Tad friend is is not a 639 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: comment on his writing. What I'm saying is I find 640 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: that most people who write about Hollywood, most people who 641 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: write about I had this complain about Amy Pascal's husband, 642 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: who used to write for The New York Times bring wine. 643 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: I had this awful contra toomp with him once because 644 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: I think that everybody that writes about Hollywood, they pull 645 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: their punches in terms of management the people who are 646 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: really in charge, I mean people who write about Hollywood. 647 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: If you really want to write the truth about what's 648 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: going in Hollywood, you talk about how non creative people 649 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: have taken over the process from top to bottom. They 650 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't know what a good movie was if it came 651 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: up and bit them in the ass at the bar 652 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: of the Polo Lounge. They know nothing about that. They 653 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: don't have a creative molecule in their body. Now, it 654 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: used to be a guy like Zanick Dick Zanick or 655 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: even his father would so Darryl Zanne. If they sit 656 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: there and go, I don't know how to make a 657 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: great movie, but I know people I can recognize people 658 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: who can. And they went out there. Uh Metavoy, the 659 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: great exects, the great heads of production, the great studio heads, 660 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: and beyond all that were people who they knew who 661 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: to assemble and say, let's get all of them in 662 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: a room. I knew who I want. We're all chasing 663 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: down the same stars as Edith Head with this cinematographer 664 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: James Wong. How let's get all these guys together and 665 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: make this great, great movie. Now you have none of that. 666 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: People they don't even like movies. But you find and 667 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm not picking on friend, but a friend, I find 668 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: him a bit in emic and assigning the blame where 669 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: it belongs. The actors always take the hit when the 670 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: movie doesn't work, rather than the fact that the d 671 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: g A is the most bankrupt. It is the most 672 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: bankrupt of the guilds. Now, you've got abundant great writers 673 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: out there with great ideas. You've got tons of great 674 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: actors who want to work, and you don't have that 675 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: many men and women that can direct a movie. You 676 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: just don't. They don't know what they're doing. Well, it's 677 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: remarkable how little there is. I mean, that's why streaming 678 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: videos becomes such a godsend and so fabulous, and that's 679 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: why all the creativity is going there, right because a 680 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: tough time in the business speaking for for that reason, 681 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: which is the people who are picking, you've got to 682 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: you've got to try to make an appeal to someone 683 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: to buy something that they have no taste in whatsoever. 684 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: What It's tragic. And that's actually why new House was 685 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: so great because he knew talent and he did like 686 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: and he didn't want to get in the mix himself, 687 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: but he knew who to put in place, and it 688 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: was like, now you run with it, you know, which 689 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: is something that's very very rare. So how long are 690 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: you with The New Yorker? I was at The New 691 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: Yorker for nearly seven years? Did you keep a New 692 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: Yorker diary? Less off alas? Because it was a weekly 693 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: and I had a kid, and you know, so it 694 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: was much harder for me to do it. And I 695 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, I regret that I didn't write it with 696 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: as much kind of intensity and detail that I did 697 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair Diaries, so I didn't do as much. And 698 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: then after six and a half seven years, I've been 699 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: going to get frustrated there because I always felt The 700 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: New Yorker should be more by the end, that it 701 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: should be more than a magazine. I wanted to see 702 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: it be a radio show, a book company, because people 703 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: were always trying to buy the Remnick sat here and 704 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: did our podcast, walked out the door and started his 705 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: own podcast. He said in that chair and said, if 706 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: this moron can do this, I can do it. And 707 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: he's doing a great I'll never forgive him. And I 708 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: didn't was no podcast in those days, but I did 709 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: think exactly that that. Yeah, I thought it should be 710 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: more media, and I thought it could be like the 711 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: HBO of of print. You know, um your phone by 712 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: the way, you know, no you I would always assume 713 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: that Tina Brown, someone's ringing constantly, but my daughter texting. 714 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: But but we would just describe real quickly, how is 715 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: it different at the New Yorker. Well, comparing Trash the two, 716 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: it was much more open warfare against me at the 717 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: New Yorker at the beginning, you know, because we had 718 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: this huge kind of pushback from the old guard, expecting 719 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: that this was going to be me putting Demi Moore 720 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 1: and in the magazine, I mean fristus, the cartoonist, Bob Mankoff, 721 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: he thought that I was going to cancel all of 722 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: cartoons and just put pictures in, and of course it 723 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: was the reverse was true. I actually gave the car 724 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: Bob Mankoff, I made him cartoon editor, and I actually 725 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 1: gave you know, him a whole cartoon issue every Christmas 726 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: to do. But he had a documentary out of it 727 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: and got a documentary, and I started the cartoon Bank 728 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: and all of these things that he's wonderful. He's absolutely 729 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: First we became the best of friends. But but for 730 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: the first two or three years it was this kind 731 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: of what is she trying to do? But then I 732 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 1: think what happened basically was that a lot of the 733 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: defective left the new amazing people were so good. I mean, 734 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: when you have people like m Nick and Rick Hertzberg 735 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: who are brought in and I love him so dearly. 736 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: I mean, he's the cleverest and the best, and you 737 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: know that talk. It was like a graft. It was 738 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,720 Speaker 1: like a skin graft, right, And there was a wonderful moment. Actually, 739 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: when I was having a sandwich with John Updyke in 740 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: the office and before he came, Anthony Lane, the film critics, 741 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: said to me, oh, here having lunch with John Updyck. 742 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: I am, He's my hero. I just want to meet him. 743 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: So I said, okay, well, I'm in the middle of lunch, 744 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: you know, just knock on the door and I'll introduce 745 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: you to John. Knock, knock through the And as he 746 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: comes in, John Updyke jumps up and says, Anthony Lene, 747 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: I've been so looking forward to meeting you. It was 748 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: a wonderful moment because it was you saw the blood 749 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: exchange had happened, you know, which was at the Older Guarden, 750 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: And from that moment, really, you know, it all settled 751 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: down and we were soon the most amazingly exciting. When 752 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: the time comes to leave the New Yorker, I mean, 753 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure, having taken two magazines and really, well we'll 754 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: throw Tattler. Yeah, but but but but here in the 755 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 1: U s fantity there in the New Yorker and having 756 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: tremendous success with them in a new house behind you, 757 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: what did you fantasize would be next? Well, I had 758 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: this fantasy of an extended media. Laterally, you see, as 759 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: I said, I wanted to do radio's books, TV shows 760 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: out of the New Yorker brand, Sign your House. For 761 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: all of his wonderfulness, did not get that. That's where 762 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: he stumbled, actually, because frankly had he done that twenty 763 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: years ago. I mean this was I didn't understand where 764 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: we were heading. He did not understand where we were headed. 765 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: Conn didn't miss the miss the trick when it came 766 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: to getting ahead of that curve. I mean, the things 767 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: that I told side to do in the nineties were 768 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: the things that they should have done because I was 769 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: I did see it early, probably too early and too 770 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: early for him to see your sound nuts. It was 771 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: like settled down on do your magazine and like go 772 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: back to your knittings, Go have lunch with updates, Go 773 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: have lunch with up that. Yet I was thinking I 774 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: wanted So along comes a person who has been in 775 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: the news lately, Mr Harvey Weinstein, who comes to me 776 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: and says, I want you to come and do a 777 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: magazine with Mirrormax. You can do books, you can do films, 778 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: you can do all of these things that you the 779 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: idea you had want to vack you talk is the 780 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: magazine Talk magazine, we just called it. So I said, okay, 781 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: I'll do this. And I thought that he was the 782 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: sort of the missing piece of entrepreneurial verve that was 783 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: going to help me develop these thoughts. And you know, 784 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: I leapt out of the Ivory Tower into a well. 785 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: I wanted it to be a rough and tumble thing. 786 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: I was ready for that. I had been at the 787 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 1: Court of Louis the fourteenth, as it were, for seventeen years, 788 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: and I thought this would be exciting and rugged. And 789 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to know. How does a new house compared 790 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: to Harvey Weinstein? Oh my god, I mean, you know, 791 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: it was like a bad dream. New house was always 792 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: sort of courteous, always warm, really, and he changed difficult. 793 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: He was a gentleman. He was generally he could mean, 794 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: he could be very difficult, he could be very irritating, 795 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: but he was never abusive or in any way inappropriate. 796 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: And I find that unbelievable that Harvey was abusive to you. Well, 797 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: he was actually I mean, I mean yeah, I mean 798 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: he basically was. Well he Harvey. The problem with Harvy 799 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: is here, and I immediately had a completely opposed vision 800 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: of what it should be. I mean, I wanted to 801 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: leave The New Yorker and Vanity Fair to do something 802 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: obviously different from either of them. Right. I had this 803 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: concept of a literary news magazine that was going to 804 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: be like in a European news magazine. I was in 805 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: love with magazines like Perry, Match and Stern, and I 806 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: love those magazines, and I wanted to do a European 807 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: news magazine with a New Yorker quality type face and 808 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: content with amazing photography like Perry Matt. That was the idea, 809 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: with a cover with multiple images on it and all 810 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: of the things that hadn't been really done here. I 811 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: love those magazines. I did the first couple couple of issues. 812 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: They were amazingly good. But when within about two months, 813 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: I mean, Harvey immediately started to say, I want Vanity 814 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: Fair with you to just a copy Vanity Fair. I 815 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: want you to have you know, Matt Damon on the cover. 816 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: I want you to say completely and I you know. 817 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,959 Speaker 1: And it became so frustrating to me because I felt 818 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: that I was being forced into this kind of celebrity 819 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: journalism again, but in this wildly unstable environment where Also 820 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: I was having a very hand fisted way by the 821 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: hand fisted when it wasn't what I wanted to do, 822 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: and I found it very very distracting. And hiring and 823 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: firing was that another point of friction. I have my 824 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: own team at first. But I did find, of course 825 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: that Harvey wanted to go around town of signing things 826 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: all the time, and I mean that never happened before. 827 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: The deals that were made by Harvey for for Talk 828 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: and for the book publisher was flight attendance on private jets, 829 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: so there was a lot of that. I would run 830 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 1: into a person who would tell me that his peace 831 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,439 Speaker 1: was coming in on Wednesday, you know, and I would say, 832 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: what peace, you know, and how am I going to 833 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: pay for it? Because it was also my budget that 834 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: was like streaming out the door. So I, you know, 835 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: I felt extremely frustrated with it, but you know, it 836 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: was having leapt out of the New York or obviously 837 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: it was. It was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking really what happened. 838 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: Of course, then it didn't go well because you know 839 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: that it lasted for two years and then actually nine 840 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: eleven really put the kibosh on it because then advertising 841 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: disappeared and then you were going to have to have 842 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: deep pockets behind you. Did you walk away just was 843 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: like you've got a car service and took off and 844 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: never spoke to him again, or was there an actually know, 845 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, you know, I stayed on 846 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: perfectly okay terms with Harvey after that. I mean, at 847 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's like, you know, what 848 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: happened happened because we have the weird condition where you 849 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: and I are intersecting here for this interview right when 850 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: all this stuff is happening. And I don't think the 851 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: Weinstein Company should go out of business because there's all 852 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: these innocent people are going to lose their jobs. Just 853 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: get a bit of Harvey and Bob. Let someone else 854 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: take over so that everybody else can have their job. 855 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: But don't punish innocent people because Harvey is apparently a monster. Well, 856 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, this of what I got here, 857 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: I got an email from somebody who used to work 858 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: for Merra Maxi, and she said, I'm absolutely in a 859 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: state of shock. She said, now I feel my entire 860 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: resume has cost me in the light of being this 861 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: hideously dubious colluder, honey trap bait for for for rapists, 862 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: and I had no idea this stuff was happening. I'm 863 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: gonna turn over my car too, because I've gotten a 864 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: lot of attacks online because I was dear friends and 865 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: have been dear friends with Jimmy Toback and never once 866 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: had a conversation with Jimmy about his sex life. And 867 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: now those people who come at you about Harvey is 868 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: the same thing where you're just sitting there going you're 869 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: not having conversations with people about, you know, the Harvey problem. 870 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: Well certainly I didn't, you know, you know, one doesn't 871 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: look at all the people who wrote it, to whom 872 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: Aberdeen saying it's so terrible what they're saying about your husband, 873 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: Anthony Weiner, and you know it isn't true. And then 874 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, it turns out to have been this 875 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: kind of serial piece and that share as well, you know, 876 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,479 Speaker 1: and so you you sort of feel your gun shy 877 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: about speaking up about anybody's other side. So you write 878 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: the thing about Lady Diana, who I met once and 879 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: want to do something. She was so much more beautiful 880 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: and more interesting in person, so much it almost didn't 881 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: do her justice. She was stunning, stunning, and it was 882 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 1: all about the coloring. I mean it was this piece 883 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: is gorgeous peach pelvet face and this huge olympid blue 884 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 1: feeling eyes and people didn't realize I did. I did, 885 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: and I always felt like you did. In fact, I 886 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: had lunch with her in New York about six weeks 887 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 1: before she died, and when she walked into the Four Seasons, 888 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: it was just so she's so stunning, you know, because 889 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: she's so huge. I mean, she's like this gazelle who's like, 890 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: you know, six ft something. It felt, you know, in 891 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: the shoes and the eyes that were just so enormous, 892 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: and yet she was so lonely. Talked about loneliness and 893 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: how you know in August she was dreading August because 894 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: the children were going off to stay with Charles in 895 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: pal Moral, and how she she said, nobody wants me 896 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: to have me to stay. And I said, why what 897 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: are you talking about? Everybody wants to have you know, 898 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: she said, you said the paper RSI calm, and they 899 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: go through your garbage, and you know, you just said, 900 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: it's just horrible to have me to stay. She said, 901 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: I am. You know, I have nowhere to go in 902 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: August my children, and I just thought how extraordinary it 903 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: was that she felt that lonely. But it also did 904 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: explain when you learned of her death, you know, six 905 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 1: weeks later or whatever it was, what she was doing 906 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: in the south of France. I mean, she was really 907 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: there because she was so lonely. And along time the 908 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: al Fayed family, you have what you call all the 909 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: toys are either planes and the bodyguards, and you know, 910 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: the chauffeurs, and so Jackie Kennedy marrying on exactly the same. 911 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: Some of the most prominent figures, I mean, your peers, 912 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: if you will, in terms of their prominence in the 913 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: publishing world. Graden is leaving, Robbie Meyer and Jan sold 914 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: the business, and I'm wondering it's just technology. I mean, 915 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,400 Speaker 1: I think digital disruption has become so intense that for 916 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: many of them it was like, look, I had a 917 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: great time, and let's leave this now to someone who 918 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: couldn't just do this reinvention because I did my stuff. 919 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: You could have kept going, did you have? Well? No, 920 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: I decided to start a live media company because I 921 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: felt that it was no longer about stories and pictures 922 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: and captions and words, which is what I love to 923 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: do and had become all about how am I going 924 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: to get the revenue stream? What is the digital platform? 925 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: You know, all of that anguish that is about process 926 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: as opposed to stories. And so I now to do 927 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: many of these live events where I can at least 928 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: showcase incredible stories and put them on the stage and 929 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: have people watching them, which is what we do with 930 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: women in the world. Because just magazines cannot anymore survive, 931 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: so now can't they ask They're actually making a lot 932 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: of speed trying to do stuff like David Remnick doing 933 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: his podcast, you know, which is great and they should 934 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: be doing a lot more of that. But it's you know, 935 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: there are all these brands there that now have to 936 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: be sort of rethought and it's you're doing it against 937 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: the clock. A challenge for the next generation of Tina Brown's. 938 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,359 Speaker 1: But the magazine business is different now. Nobody will ever 939 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: match the power and glamor of Vanity Fair at the 940 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: height of Brown's reign. Her book is Vanity Fair Diaries. 941 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here is 942 00:44:48,800 --> 00:45:00,720 Speaker 1: the thing. Two