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Speaker 4: You created, you know, a space where there wasn't any competition.
Speaker 4: Then you became your own competition, which is very, very brilliant.
Speaker 4: So I think it's a lesson FU as entrepreneurs in general,
Speaker 4: to just think outside the box, look at what somebody's
Speaker 4: not doing instead of looking at what somebody is doing,
Speaker 4: and create a space, even if it's niche, like you
Speaker 4: can make a lot of money in niche spaces. You
Speaker 4: don't have to be you know where billions and billions
Speaker 4: of people are already competing.
Speaker 5: My graduates from my school being forced bad drop drop drop,
Speaker 5: bad drop drop.
Speaker 6: All right, guys, welcome back.
Speaker 4: This is going to be a very interesting educational episode.
Speaker 4: So this is something that you know, I actually am
Speaker 4: extremely excited about, extremely excited about because there's so many
Speaker 4: dog lovers in the world.
Speaker 6: I'm not one of them.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's what this is.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 4: I don't I don't love dogs, and I do appreciate,
Speaker 4: do don't want, I don't want.
Speaker 6: Peter, don't don't come at me.
Speaker 8: We both we both don't have dogs or pets for
Speaker 8: that matter, but we understand the love that people have
Speaker 8: for him.
Speaker 7: Shout out to mic who's a huge dog lover, and bam.
Speaker 8: You know, we've been enthusiast about dogs, and they've been
Speaker 8: trying to get us to get dogs, and my wife
Speaker 8: is saying no.
Speaker 6: So I'm with it.
Speaker 8: On that and do you ever do no, my son,
Speaker 8: your son as a dog. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But we're in London, yes, following up from an
Speaker 4: amazing trip, amazing last night.
Speaker 6: That was legendary, what we talked about forever.
Speaker 7: Yes, they're gonna remember this.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, we're still in London. So we meet with
Speaker 4: some UK entrepreneurs while we're here. So ah mad I
Speaker 4: met Yeah, correctly, Yes, it is somebody that I actually
Speaker 4: connected with in New York. Ironically enough, I'm not sure
Speaker 4: how do we originally meet.
Speaker 9: So there's Mike Mike G the intro.
Speaker 4: Oh, Mike G. That's that's extremely random. Shout out to
Speaker 4: Mike G. Shout out to Mike G.
Speaker 2: You know Mike years.
Speaker 4: Mike G's my guy in Miami with the NFL players,
Speaker 4: and he had yeah, okay, shout out to Mike G.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 4: So this was what I was in my financial planning days.
Speaker 4: And this was years ago, probably like five years ago.
Speaker 9: Maybe here's twenty eighteen to the back end.
Speaker 4: Okay, like four years ago, and I had an office
Speaker 4: in Manhattan.
Speaker 6: You came to my office and.
Speaker 4: We spoke, and he told me that he has a
Speaker 4: company that makes content for animals, for dogs and cat,
Speaker 4: and it's like sounds and you know, visual content, and
Speaker 4: I couldn't really fully understand it.
Speaker 7: I can imagine you're sitting there like okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, now, But then he was telling me, like, you know,
Speaker 4: the company's making millions of dollars. They had a write
Speaker 4: up in Forbes, and I started looking at the business
Speaker 4: model behind it, and then I'm like, okay, I understand it.
Speaker 4: It's just like you know, animals, pets specifically, billion dollar industry.
Speaker 4: Like as far as the care, like you'd be surprised
Speaker 4: people get their dogs, manicures, clothing for for dogs and cats,
Speaker 4: of course.
Speaker 6: Veterinarians, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 4: Supers, dog camps, dog daycarees, dog workouts, like the dogsitters,
Speaker 4: dog trainers.
Speaker 6: There's a whole.
Speaker 8: Industry dog food of course, that's the biggest.
Speaker 4: Every dog's gotta eat. So but yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 4: But if you if you understand the podcast space, you know,
Speaker 4: one of the most popular podcasts, I forget the name
Speaker 4: of it, but one of the most popular podcasts. One
Speaker 4: of the most popular forms of content on YouTube are
Speaker 4: like rain noises, Like it's just that's the whole thing.
Speaker 4: Nobody talking to nothing. It's just like rain noises like
Speaker 4: in the Amazon and like waterfall and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: and people like used it to go to sleep. Like
Speaker 4: you see like rain noise on YouTube, it's like one
Speaker 4: hundred million views, like a five minute clip of just rain.
Speaker 8: Just let it run, and after you let it runs
Speaker 8: a playlist of them and we just keep going.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so what created is actually kind of similar
Speaker 4: to that a little bit.
Speaker 6: They call it the petflix.
Speaker 4: That's what the media causing, right, So the media petflix.
Speaker 4: So the reason why it's called petflix is that think
Speaker 4: of Netflix like content that you have on Netflix, but
Speaker 4: think of.
Speaker 6: That for pets, dogs and cats specifically.
Speaker 4: So you have like and we're gonna talk about it,
Speaker 4: but you have the noises, Like you have some content
Speaker 4: that's just noises, but you also have content that's actually
Speaker 4: made for animals.
Speaker 6: So it's like visual content that you could play.
Speaker 4: On TV and put your dog in front of the
Speaker 4: TV and the dog watches it. You might not fully
Speaker 4: understand this don't have an animal or don't have a pet,
Speaker 4: but if you have a pet, I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 4: you can understand it. And once you see the numbers,
Speaker 4: when I read these numbers off, you're definitely gonna understand this.
Speaker 4: So the company is value that twenty five million dollars
Speaker 4: and it has fifty million pets around the world and
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty one million hours of content consumed
Speaker 4: last year. And it's called Relax My Dog, Relax my Cat.
Speaker 6: Right, that's right. Yeah, So all right, that's a good intro.
Speaker 6: First and foremost, thank you for joining us, Thank you
Speaker 6: for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 4: So all right, how did this come about? Because this
Speaker 4: is a highly unique situation.
Speaker 6: What gave you the idea? How di did happen?
Speaker 9: So basically, we were originally making music to help people study,
Speaker 9: and I remember I used to struggle with studying, and
Speaker 9: then from there I was like, okay, you know this
Speaker 9: is it's kind of working. And at the time I
Speaker 9: had literally one thousand, one thousand, five hundred dollars one
Speaker 9: thousand pounds at the time to start a business, and
Speaker 9: I found the only music producer that I could afford
Speaker 9: was based in El Salvador, and we were basically he
Speaker 9: said something about his dog and cat getting noise anxiety
Speaker 9: from living in one of the most violent countries in
Speaker 9: the world, when you've got guns and police sirens and
Speaker 9: all that stuff going on, and we were looking into
Speaker 9: sound therapy for pets, and we thought, okay, let's give
Speaker 9: this a try, see what happens. And then slowly it
Speaker 9: started working on his pets, and then we just put
Speaker 9: out to the audience and ever since then it's been
Speaker 9: a huge feedback loop. We get the data, we iterate,
Speaker 9: we get the data, we iterate, and it's just got
Speaker 9: big from there.
Speaker 8: So what's that process like, because you're making music the
Speaker 8: human beings to making music for animals, right, Like is
Speaker 8: there sound rate or beating it?
Speaker 7: Like, what's that process?
Speaker 9: So, yeah, there's certain beat rates and certain frequencies that
Speaker 9: dogs can hear and humans can't. And then just generally
Speaker 9: what we did was just there was a lot of
Speaker 9: things that we made that didn't work, and it was
Speaker 9: just purely just experimenting, looking at the quantitative and qualitative data.
Speaker 9: And then from there we just iterated and iterated and
Speaker 9: and I would say it was a bit of a
Speaker 9: slow process, but we want to build something super quality.
Speaker 7: In the beginning stages.
Speaker 8: How do you know what's working, right, Because I mean
Speaker 8: I see like Mike's all all the time, and I
Speaker 8: feel like she just watches whatever he watches.
Speaker 7: But how do you like where there were you having dogs,
Speaker 7: like you were.
Speaker 8: Testing them, checking their heart rates and like timing their
Speaker 8: attention spans. Like what was the process of like understanding
Speaker 8: like okay, I think this is working.
Speaker 9: So first had access to a dog shelter, just anxiety,
Speaker 9: you know, we didn't have the equipment to check the
Speaker 9: heart right, but we just had enough to be like, Okay,
Speaker 9: something is going on here. Now let's spread it out
Speaker 9: on YouTube of bigger audience and collect that data. And
Speaker 9: then so in terms of a scientific approach, it was
Speaker 9: more of a feedback loop approach than we took.
Speaker 4: So let me ask you this. You said that, and
Speaker 4: I've heard this before. Dogs can hear things that humans
Speaker 4: can't write. Can you elaborate on that? The sound different?
Speaker 9: So the best way to describe is basically, certain frequencies
Speaker 9: the dogs can hear better hearing, They have a wider
Speaker 9: range of hearing basically, and and then we just work
Speaker 9: on like what so we embed some frequencies within the music,
Speaker 9: but we've now made it in a way where it's
Speaker 9: designed for humans and dogs to listen together. That's something
Speaker 9: that we've noticed now, Like we asked the audience. Basically,
Speaker 9: you know who watches Relax My Dog with their dog?
Speaker 9: And I think out of ten thousand votes that we
Speaker 9: got about eighty five percent of them, So yeah, they
Speaker 9: watch it with a dog. So as a result, we've
Speaker 9: we've designed it in a way where it's good for
Speaker 9: humans and dogs.
Speaker 4: To watch together. So, okay, how is this able to
Speaker 4: scale to the point that it is?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 4: Like you, you said something interested to me. You said
Speaker 4: that you haven't spent really any money on marketing. No, no,
Speaker 4: because that would be my first thing was like, you
Speaker 4: buy an adds our Facebook ads. Great thing to do
Speaker 4: by Facebook ads, But you didn't buy Facebook ads I'm
Speaker 4: assuming viable.
Speaker 6: You didn't buy YouTube ads?
Speaker 4: So how were you able to scale without spending money
Speaker 4: on ads?
Speaker 9: So how were you able to scale?
Speaker 7: Was?
Speaker 9: I think one of the most fascinating books that I
Speaker 9: ever read was Delivering Happiness by the found of Zappos,
Speaker 9: and we took that approach to be super obsessed with
Speaker 9: our customer base. So for us, it was like we
Speaker 9: wanted them to be part of the product development, giving
Speaker 9: us feedback, and then as a result, we just continuously
Speaker 9: grew from there. So to give you a specific example,
Speaker 9: like for everyone user that uses our products, on average
Speaker 9: they tell about seven people when they tells seven people
Speaker 9: with like real intensity. So as a result, we were
Speaker 9: able to scale that way, and in the nine years
Speaker 9: I've had the business, like, our marketing spent in total
Speaker 9: has been five thousand dollars, But to be honest, that
Speaker 9: five thousand dollars was mostly just experimenting and failing, Like
Speaker 9: we got nothing out of it, so technically they could
Speaker 9: have been zero.
Speaker 4: Do you have a system in place for you said,
Speaker 4: like referrals? Pretty much, you have a system in place
Speaker 4: to encourage people to like your referrals or they just
Speaker 4: do it. But there's no system because.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I didn't they Humans. Dog owners are so emotionally
Speaker 9: attached to their pet that if they find something unique
Speaker 9: that works, they want to tell the world. And as
Speaker 9: a result, what we did was we approached micro influences
Speaker 9: and we have tried to incentivize them to give them
Speaker 9: something in return, but generally they don't care. If this
Speaker 9: finds something that works, don't tell everyone.
Speaker 4: So micro influences your approaching and they're doing it for free. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you're just giving them like access to the product.
Speaker 9: They just even that they don't even want access to
Speaker 9: the product like they did because they consume it on
Speaker 9: YouTube or Spotify, Apple Music. But even if we offer
Speaker 9: them a subscription sometimes like they're doing that, they're doing
Speaker 9: it from their heart.
Speaker 4: But what's your what's your pitch to the micro influence?
Speaker 9: So for us, it's just kind of like some I
Speaker 9: guess my team takes care of that internally, but they
Speaker 9: just have a range of pictures. It's like super simple.
Speaker 9: You find out by their dog, and it's it's more conversational.
Speaker 9: I'm sure you get so many d ms now on
Speaker 9: install So we take a conversational approach, so, oh your
Speaker 9: dog is cute, blah blah blah, you know, and then
Speaker 9: from there and it's the same thing we do on
Speaker 9: YouTube as well. Everything is conversational.
Speaker 6: In the micro influences, like people like five thousand followers up.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but we we've had right now TikTok influences with
Speaker 9: millions of follow us, But we we don't even approach
Speaker 9: them changes do it.
Speaker 4: People love what looking at that and they tag they
Speaker 4: tag you yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8: So you said that before. In Jolie reversent as well,
Speaker 8: those hear things that we don't. They have a wider
Speaker 8: range of hearing. Yeah, did you start from the beginning
Speaker 8: process of making it auditory and visual or is that
Speaker 8: something that you expanded to because I know you.
Speaker 7: Talked about the color grade.
Speaker 8: Yeah, because I mean, obviously we don't see the same way,
Speaker 8: So like, did that come after?
Speaker 7: What was that like?
Speaker 9: So that came after? So the audio piece, I think
Speaker 9: when we start twenty twelve, and the visuals piece came
Speaker 9: into came in like twenty seventeen.
Speaker 7: Five years Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So we wanted to nail down the audio piece first,
Speaker 9: and then we saw some basic research that other universities
Speaker 9: have done around the visual side, and then we start
Speaker 9: to create content. Once again very experimental, but we start
Speaker 9: getting a data and we're like, okay, this works, this
Speaker 9: doesn't work. And just to give you an example, like
Speaker 9: even our music goes into different genres that we create.
Speaker 9: So we've created an altered version of reggae, which seems
Speaker 9: to be the best type of music and the most
Speaker 9: popular on our platform, compared to like an altered version
Speaker 9: of classical or oriental or whatever it is. So we're
Speaker 9: starting to create these little genres where we're starting to
Speaker 9: see so that on the visual piece, for example, dogs
Speaker 9: love watching virtual walks on a beach, so we have
Speaker 9: a lot of that and we look at it. Okay,
Speaker 9: this one works the best compared to virtual walk in
Speaker 9: the city or whatever it is. And then there's some
Speaker 9: dogs that like watching other dogs going for walks, but
Speaker 9: some don't, some bark, some go nuts.
Speaker 8: As I's saying, I'm thinking to myself, like, I'm walking
Speaker 8: in with my dog like testing, yeah, and we put
Speaker 8: something on. I'm gauging the reaction as if they start,
Speaker 8: if they start screamming, if their tails moving too much,
Speaker 8: or the treat. Is that how we're gaging, Like, Okay,
Speaker 8: they like watching walks on the beach, that is that
Speaker 8: how we gave it. So what you mean like, if
Speaker 8: there's a video like visually, Yeah, yeah, how do I
Speaker 8: know a successful video? Is it because the reaction of
Speaker 8: the dog barking or showing anxiety.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: So as long as your dog is like I guess,
Speaker 9: pretty chilled and engaged with the screen, then it's fine.
Speaker 9: But some people want to get the dog excited and
Speaker 9: they'll be jumping up and down on the screen. So
Speaker 9: I think just generally, yeah, as long as they're I
Speaker 9: think the best thing to do is Like what people
Speaker 9: do is they'll go to work, so they'll leave it
Speaker 9: on for like eight hours. When they come back, you
Speaker 9: can sense your dog if he's pretty chilled or anxious,
Speaker 9: and then you can gauge, oh, this is working or
Speaker 9: it's not working.
Speaker 4: So let me ask you this. Yeah, I see it
Speaker 4: on a note. Seventy five percent profit.
Speaker 9: Margin gross profit.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, so that's high. So how are you able
Speaker 4: to do that? I'm assuming your your course must be
Speaker 4: very low, low overhead, right yeah yeah, but you have
Speaker 4: a production staff where you people are producing content, right,
Speaker 4: so how are you able to keep your court so loaded,
Speaker 4: to keep so much of the profit.
Speaker 9: Because most of my production stuff is all over the world.
Speaker 9: And the other thing is like when I first started business,
Speaker 9: like the biggest book that had the impact on me
Speaker 9: was Tim ferris To for Our work Week, and it's
Speaker 9: all about building scalability through automation. And for me, it's
Speaker 9: the same thing. It's like, you know, I can hire
Speaker 9: producers in England that will be like super expensive, or
Speaker 9: can hire someone in Indonesia that is literally insanely cheap. Outsource.
Speaker 9: From day one, all I've done is outsource my business.
Speaker 9: My whole team is remote around the world.
Speaker 4: And it's good quality work.
Speaker 9: You have amazing quality work. But I think the key
Speaker 9: thing is with outsourcing is that it's learning how to communicate.
Speaker 9: When you hire these people, there's different communication techniques. And
Speaker 9: also is to have them, I guess integrated, to feel
Speaker 9: part of the company even though they're freelancers. And I
Speaker 9: think just putting systems in place where it's like, you know,
Speaker 9: here's here's some of the instructions, just follow it. That's it.
Speaker 9: I feel like when you put these at playbook in
Speaker 9: place for these people that you hire, then it just
Speaker 9: runs itself.
Speaker 4: So yeah, we've been we talked about that a futures
Speaker 4: how people have used platforms like Fiverr. Yeah, different things
Speaker 4: in that nature. How were you able to find like
Speaker 4: the good people overseived?
Speaker 9: So to be specific about developers, for example, when we
Speaker 9: build our own subscription platform, and there's no platform that
Speaker 9: you can just buy off the shelf, so we get
Speaker 9: to build that onn like Netflix out of a box.
Speaker 9: And the thing is our watch time a lot higher
Speaker 9: than Netflix. I think the average watch time is two
Speaker 9: hours per person. Our average watch time is eight hours.
Speaker 9: And you put a dog or cat and if you
Speaker 9: look at that. That's a lot of bandwidth that's being used,
Speaker 9: a lot of bandwidths. So that how do we, you know,
Speaker 9: put our costs down and our margins hired on a
Speaker 9: subscription service. So a lot of that going back to developers,
Speaker 9: it's kind of trial and error. I think I've done
Speaker 9: enough of outsourcing as an entrepreneur for ten years to
Speaker 9: know engage what works and what doesn't work. And I
Speaker 9: think with these developers, you just you can put little
Speaker 9: experiments in place for them to I guess do, and
Speaker 9: then from there once they kind of give you the
Speaker 9: results they want. But I think the key thing actually
Speaker 9: with developers is the best analogies. If you give them
Speaker 9: a drawing of a car and it has square wheels
Speaker 9: on it, they'll make it car with square wheels. They're
Speaker 9: not gonna tell you, right, So you have to be
Speaker 9: super super specific. You have to speak to them in
Speaker 9: zeros and ones literally, and that's how you get the
Speaker 9: best results from personal experience.
Speaker 7: Now you said something very interesting for the watch time. Yeah,
Speaker 7: so obviously a lot of.
Speaker 8: People consuming on YouTube, So I wonder what that looks
Speaker 8: like from your end, because having a watch time of.
Speaker 7: Eight hours, you know, for ad dollars.
Speaker 8: It makes a lot of sense to put a lot
Speaker 8: of ads in that spaces of those videos. So how
Speaker 8: is that for you guys as far as just revenue
Speaker 8: from just ads on YouTube?
Speaker 9: So in terms of sorry can you rephrase?
Speaker 8: Like, so obviously when you have a watch time of
Speaker 8: over eight hours, even like if you have to watch
Speaker 8: home over eight minutes, you can generate revenue from that.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, so is YouTube one.
Speaker 8: Of those main generating sources of income for the company
Speaker 8: because the watch time is so long.
Speaker 9: Yeah, YouTube is one of the main sources. That's right.
Speaker 9: But I think YouTube obviously automatically places mid rolls when
Speaker 9: the user is going to be likely the most engaged,
Speaker 9: so that just takes care of everything. But you know, yeah,
Speaker 9: as a result I watched time. It is insane, Like
Speaker 9: I think it's a one hundred and fifty five million
Speaker 9: hours in one year.
Speaker 4: Wow, who's your competition? Do you have competition in the space?
Speaker 4: Maybe it's very.
Speaker 9: Very small competition. But for us, I think what we
Speaker 9: did was like with a relaxed my dog, we thought, okay,
Speaker 9: this is working, and for us, it was like, let's
Speaker 9: copy and paste our YouTube channel and send traffic to
Speaker 9: that so we have came your Dog, Relax your Dog,
Speaker 9: came your Cat, et cetera. Different YouTube channels.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how many subscribes you on YouTube?
Speaker 9: Combined?
Speaker 4: Two million different channels all of them. Yeah, Relax my
Speaker 4: Dog is a premium one. That's the one that gets
Speaker 4: the most.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but the other ones that we desided to compete
Speaker 9: against ourselves are growing.
Speaker 4: So you decided to compete against yourself, Yeah, Relax my Dog,
Speaker 4: Relax my Cat, with the other.
Speaker 9: One cameo dog your dog, relax your dog, and the
Speaker 9: cameo cat sons.
Speaker 4: What's the difference between cam your Dog and Relax your.
Speaker 9: Dog for us, there's right now, they're very similar, very
Speaker 9: very similar. And I think the reason why we did
Speaker 9: that was just to protect protect us from an SEO
Speaker 9: perspective and to send traffic to all of them to
Speaker 9: create our own competition.
Speaker 4: That's actually very that's actually very brilliant because it Relaxed
Speaker 4: my Dog becomes popularly. You can see somebody making a
Speaker 4: cam your Dog. Yeah, you can see that happening, right,
Speaker 4: And it's like, now that could potentially kind of drive
Speaker 4: people from Relax my Dog, calmye or the same type
Speaker 4: of content. So I was like, all right, instead of
Speaker 4: letting somebody else do it, we'll just copy ourselves and
Speaker 4: now we have calm our doll, Relax my dog, similar
Speaker 4: type of content. When you google it, one of them
Speaker 4: is going to come up exactly and it's gonna be Now,
Speaker 4: it's gonna be hard for somebody to do. The third, like,
Speaker 4: what is going to be next?
Speaker 7: The best?
Speaker 9: The best competition is yourself. Yeah, literally, that's it, and
Speaker 9: that's what we did.
Speaker 8: So you said that absolutely on YouTube, but you have
Speaker 8: the subscription service. Yeah, so what's the different in variation
Speaker 8: between YouTube and now subscription service?
Speaker 9: So the subscriptions as it is growing for us, it's
Speaker 9: still quite new because of the technology that we've built.
Speaker 9: It was like how do we balance the growth versus
Speaker 9: the cost? So that's still growing. But then you know,
Speaker 9: we thought from our perspective was like, let's just flood
Speaker 9: our content in as many platforms as possible and just
Speaker 9: create as many revenue sources as possible. If that means
Speaker 9: cannibalizing against ourselves, I'd rather cannibalize against my own myself
Speaker 9: than someone else do that.
Speaker 8: Okay, where's the biggest audience Because we go to a
Speaker 8: lot of cities, especially the United States. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 8: it feels like like we've been to San Francisco, LA.
Speaker 8: These are big dog markets, Miami. What's the biggest audience
Speaker 8: that you guys?
Speaker 7: It's the US, is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Fifty two US and then the fastest going ordiance for
Speaker 9: US is South and Central America and actually the fifth
Speaker 9: fastest going audience is India. So all over the world.
Speaker 4: So what's the verticals here? You have the YouTube channel,
Speaker 4: you have a subscription model in place, you have and
Speaker 4: what else do you do? You have anything else?
Speaker 9: YouTube? All the music streaming services, so Spotify, upper Music.
Speaker 4: Allright, so let's break each one down. Yeah, so let's
Speaker 4: start with the music. So all right, well, which one
Speaker 4: did you start?
Speaker 7: First?
Speaker 4: YouTube?
Speaker 6: First?
Speaker 9: YouTube first?
Speaker 7: Let's do that.
Speaker 4: So the YouTube was the first one, yeah, and that
Speaker 4: was putting out music video format of music and then
Speaker 4: actually putting out content, right, that's right? Yeah, Okay, that grows.
Speaker 4: Then from there you go to music, Spotify, Apple, and
Speaker 4: you're just taking the music that you already have on YouTube,
Speaker 4: ye and putting it on Spotify and Apple. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: using the same content just in different verticals, correct, Like
Speaker 4: how we do a podcast, Like we'll put the podcast
Speaker 4: out on YouTube, but then the audio goes on Apple
Speaker 4: Spotify exactly. Exactly who's making this music?
Speaker 9: My music produced a Ricardo. We've been working SGEPT for
Speaker 9: nine years now. It's in house house. Yeah, all the music,
Speaker 9: everything is made in house, the music, the video, everything,
Speaker 9: it's based on our own research.
Speaker 8: Okay, you can go to Apple Music and pull out
Speaker 8: how many songs have you got made?
Speaker 9: Like it it's gonna be in a like two thousand hours.
Speaker 4: So you just make you just may make a couple
Speaker 4: of songs a day, like you can. Just so it's
Speaker 4: just beat stuff.
Speaker 9: It's mostly instrumentals, but some of them now are having
Speaker 9: some of the new stuff we're doing is having more
Speaker 9: audio in it. So we're experimenting with the audio side.
Speaker 8: So you had to go through a process of studying
Speaker 8: the obviously the bpms and the rhythms of all the music. Yeah,
Speaker 8: you report the Guardian said that I know why you
Speaker 8: said reggae. I read the report that the Guardian said
Speaker 8: reggae and soft rock with the popular exactly. Yeah, so
Speaker 8: most of the rhythms based on that. Are you guys
Speaker 8: finding that you know what these rhythms are also work too?
Speaker 9: Yeah? So some of it's based on that, and then
Speaker 9: some of it is either we just alter it a
Speaker 9: bit more. So if it's reggae, we obviously we make
Speaker 9: everything in house. Anyway, we'll just continue to experiment with
Speaker 9: altering the sounds a bit more. But the other thing
Speaker 9: that works best, that's up and coming is more of
Speaker 9: an oriental type of music that we've started experimenting with
Speaker 9: and we're seeing that becoming popular.
Speaker 7: Do you notice that certain dogs certain sounds will work
Speaker 7: better for us?
Speaker 9: No? No, So basically every dog is so individual, like
Speaker 9: it's their personality. I think that's why we create such
Speaker 9: a range of content, and even on the visual side,
Speaker 9: like some dogs actually love watching sheep where some don't.
Speaker 9: Some dogs love watching dogs, some start barking at the screen.
Speaker 9: So we create such a range of content for you
Speaker 9: as the owner to be like, all right, you can
Speaker 9: try see which one works.
Speaker 4: What did you Okay, so you two Apple Spotify subscription.
Speaker 4: So what's talk about the subscription model? When did you
Speaker 4: put the subscription model in place? And what did the
Speaker 4: subscription model have that separated from the free content?
Speaker 9: So for us, obviously it's ad free, and more importantly,
Speaker 9: we are now collecting data on your dog and then
Speaker 9: as a result, we create customized playlists. So like if
Speaker 9: you've got on YouTube, because we have such a range
Speaker 9: of content thousands and thousands of hours, the only drawback
Speaker 9: is use the owner have to experiment to be like
Speaker 9: which one works my dog, which one doesn't. Whereas for us,
Speaker 9: we collect that data and we create a curated playlist
Speaker 9: which saves you quite quite a bit of time. And
Speaker 9: as a result, if you know, we look at the
Speaker 9: watch time metrics, so this playlist might work for a
Speaker 9: certain period of time, but then eventually, you know, we
Speaker 9: might have to change that.
Speaker 4: So when you say collective data, you're based on the
Speaker 4: content that you're consuming. Yeah, how long you're consuming the content? Yeah,
Speaker 4: you can say your dog likes this music more than
Speaker 4: that music, and now we can curate a playlist like
Speaker 4: your dog is more in the reggae in South samarnga.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and when you do it, you're going to send
Speaker 8: them the playlist that you've made your music.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's all our content, Okay.
Speaker 4: And how much is that?
Speaker 9: Just five dollars a month for nine a month, that's it.
Speaker 7: That's a dog food, Yeah.
Speaker 9: Literally less than dog treats.
Speaker 4: So the companies they said, you said the company's value
Speaker 4: are twenty five million. That's based off of a multiple
Speaker 4: of the revenue that's coming in right now from all
Speaker 4: the different verticals.
Speaker 9: Yeah. And because we have very very high margins profit margins. Yeah,
Speaker 9: that gives us really good multiples.
Speaker 4: Okay, get interesting, So what's the what's the plan moving forward?
Speaker 4: Like you would you like to scale it at a
Speaker 4: higher level, sell the business, partner with somebody, like how
Speaker 4: do you envision this moving forward?
Speaker 9: So for us, I think, yeah, we have been approached
Speaker 9: a number of times for exit and maybe if it's
Speaker 9: the right partner, but I think right now, it's just
Speaker 9: scale the business as much as possible. Like we have
Speaker 9: fifty million cats and dogs around the world using our content.
Speaker 9: There's like a billion cats and dogs around the world.
Speaker 4: It's like a billion domesticated cats and dollars.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so we're like we've got more to go.
Speaker 4: What about what about partnerships? Have you have you thought
Speaker 4: about like partnering with like I don't know, like a
Speaker 4: dog food company or something that or like one of
Speaker 4: these like dog shows, Like have you ever done any
Speaker 4: collaboration And because that seems to me like that there's
Speaker 4: a lot of collaboration that kind of would make sense.
Speaker 9: We have, We have done a lot of collaboration. So
Speaker 9: on our YouTube channel, we also have vloggers, so it's
Speaker 9: not just content, but it's content obviously designed for you know,
Speaker 9: how to take care of a dog, all these tips
Speaker 9: and tricks, et cetera. So brands will approach us and
Speaker 9: we'll talk about specific products as well on our YouTube channel.
Speaker 9: So yeah, for sure, like we want to partner with
Speaker 9: brands and then kind of grow from there. But from
Speaker 9: our perspective, we just think that if a partnership doesn't
Speaker 9: slow us down, there's no point doing that. Like it's
Speaker 9: just like we're my previous business that I had, which
Speaker 9: was venture capital backed, angel backed, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 9: Once you add all these layers, they start slowing you down.
Speaker 9: So for me, it's just like, if you're going to
Speaker 9: speed me up, that's cool.
Speaker 4: We'll talk about that. Why did it slow because you
Speaker 4: got to go ask them and talk to them and yeah,
Speaker 4: actual permission and stuff like that.
Speaker 9: Exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 8: We haven't been approached from a healthcare standpoint because when
Speaker 8: I hear words like habri activity, anxiety, these are words
Speaker 8: that we hear when we talk about humans.
Speaker 7: That's a healthcare issue. Right, Have you been approached.
Speaker 8: By veterinarians or anybody and that the dog feel that
Speaker 8: revolves around the health.
Speaker 9: No, we we know one of my friends lives in
Speaker 9: New York. He went to his vet and it's like, oh,
Speaker 9: they've got to relax my dog on TV. So a
Speaker 9: lot of vets are using it, a lot of shelters
Speaker 9: are using it. I think during July fourth in America,
Speaker 9: the biggest like shelter network was talking about us on
Speaker 9: Fox News. So yeah, there's a lot of areas that
Speaker 9: we are going into that's being used. But it's just
Speaker 9: run like I think that it's mental health for your pet, right,
Speaker 9: that's it. So if it's a vet, a groomer, massage,
Speaker 9: a shelter in some way has a positive impact.
Speaker 8: Is there any visions for maybe I know, like a
Speaker 8: lot of people go to a dog trainer or like
Speaker 8: you said, like a mental health gym. Yeah, I got
Speaker 8: a color for human beings. Is there a vision of
Speaker 8: having something like that for relaxed my dog relis my cat.
Speaker 8: Whether people can actually come and see the experience of
Speaker 8: outside of the YouTube, outside actual subscription service to have
Speaker 8: it amongst a bunch of pets.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's so interesting. Actually, that is something that we're
Speaker 9: looking at doing in India. There's a bunch of high
Speaker 9: profile people that have been approached by so we might
Speaker 9: be looking at doing that because the relationship I guess
Speaker 9: with pets in South Asia going from street animals and
Speaker 9: classified as dirty or whatever, it is changing like super quick.
Speaker 9: So we are going to be doing something very similar.
Speaker 4: So being based in the UK started to come in
Speaker 4: the UK, but you do a lot of those in
Speaker 4: America as well, right, yep, So can you talk about
Speaker 4: that because you know a lot of our most of
Speaker 4: our audiences in American audience, but we have a lot
Speaker 4: of supporting a lot of listeners in the UK. So
Speaker 4: what was what was the challenges if any? What were
Speaker 4: the you know, hurdles that you may have had to
Speaker 4: face And how is it to do business cross continent
Speaker 4: because I don't think a lot of people have a
Speaker 4: full perspective of doing business on like two different continents,
Speaker 4: especially in America all the time. It's like if you're
Speaker 4: an American based business, smaller type of just focus on America.
Speaker 7: I know you do both.
Speaker 4: So what with some of the learning experiences challenges.
Speaker 9: So in all honestly, I think for us, we were like, right,
Speaker 9: how do we get to the end consumer without having
Speaker 9: a middle person? And that was it. So doing business
Speaker 9: in America wherever, Like you know, we're global now, but
Speaker 9: that's because of how do we reach the end consumer?
Speaker 9: So for us, you know, I guess partnerships. If we
Speaker 9: approached like I don't know, pet Smart or whoever, it
Speaker 9: was like, in all honesty, like I have no time
Speaker 9: for that. It's a waste of my time because of
Speaker 9: the level of bureaucracies. It's like, why do I want
Speaker 9: to go to a big pet retailler when it can
Speaker 9: jump over you and that run into your customers. So
Speaker 9: that was my approach from day one. So doing business
Speaker 9: in America or wherever, it's just distances in whatever country
Speaker 9: is an issue. If I can access the end consumer,
Speaker 9: that's all I care about. I don't care where you're based.
Speaker 7: So obviously your music background erners.
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Speaker 8: He to you in a different set, Now, this is
Speaker 8: pretty incredible. So how many because I know you outsourced
Speaker 8: a lot of the word, but how many people are
Speaker 8: doing the day to data or are you still day
Speaker 8: to day or is there you build people around you
Speaker 8: that you directly have content with that are now being outsourced.
Speaker 7: How big is the team.
Speaker 9: So the team, we're about twenty people around the world
Speaker 9: and we have a core team in Manchester and they
Speaker 9: do all kind of like the marketing, et cetera. And
Speaker 9: then the day to day I'm kind of like in
Speaker 9: and out a little bit. But yeah, so just yeah,
Speaker 9: but yeah, it kind of and it's good to step
Speaker 9: outside of your business. Sometimes you have to like work
Speaker 9: on your business rather than in your business. And you know,
Speaker 9: I guess the past few weeks I took a bit
Speaker 9: of time off just to like look outside and think
Speaker 9: where I want to go. But it's fun. It's fun.
Speaker 9: It doesn't feel like work. It's my life, it's my lifestyle.
Speaker 4: So are they any festivals for dogs at the dog Festival?
Speaker 7: M hmm.
Speaker 9: There's big conventions, like I think in England they have
Speaker 9: one called Crosss. I think maybe they might have one
Speaker 9: in like Miami somewhere. But how is that actual festivals.
Speaker 4: That might be? That might be that's a good idea,
Speaker 4: different events, different contests, different Like.
Speaker 9: There was one in New York actually I went to,
Speaker 9: but I think that was just like a one off thing.
Speaker 4: And then like even like the music like you're playing,
Speaker 4: you can actually have like a live musical performance. There's
Speaker 4: the dog fanst in the UK.
Speaker 9: Wow.
Speaker 8: So it's like a dog maybe like an open part,
Speaker 8: like a hide part. They have the DJ playing the
Speaker 8: music and everybody's just chilled out on the grass. I
Speaker 8: can see this.
Speaker 4: I can see that they're listening to it on YouTube
Speaker 4: and music.
Speaker 8: I mean if dogs can't watch it, if their owners
Speaker 8: don't watch it, right, they can't.
Speaker 7: Turn on the TV.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, exactly know what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: So now you got a bunch of people.
Speaker 8: Nice dog can turn on the TV especially, but you
Speaker 8: can sit out in the park and enjoy.
Speaker 7: Yeah, with the music.
Speaker 4: What gets more streams the Spotify, Apple or YouTube still YouTube, YouTube.
Speaker 9: Then all the music streamers. It's not just Spotify, Apple,
Speaker 9: but uh maybe one hundred and twenty music shooting services,
Speaker 9: all of them combined and aggregated, and then then the subscription.
Speaker 4: So more people still watch the YouTube than not.
Speaker 9: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So speaking of like you said, you've been approached
Speaker 4: by a couple of VC firms, how have those conversations gone, Like,
Speaker 4: as far as obviously you haven't taken any deals yet,
Speaker 4: so what made you not take a deal? Like, what
Speaker 4: were some of the things that was like turn off, Like,
Speaker 4: how was those conversations with VC firms?
Speaker 9: So because I had another VC backed business, you did yeah, okay,
Speaker 9: I went through that game okay, and with the music side, yeah, okay,
Speaker 9: with the music side yeah. And I think for me
Speaker 9: learning through that was just like with vcs, I'm very
Speaker 9: very like. So the thing is right, there's very few
Speaker 9: good vcs. It's a very small circle, and the majority
Speaker 9: of them have not been an entrepreneur us. So my
Speaker 9: question is like, have you ever struggled? And a lot
Speaker 9: of them have come from like you know, KPMG or
Speaker 9: whatever it is, so they've never seen struggle and then
Speaker 9: they're there talking to you about entrepreneurship. I have zero
Speaker 9: respect for that. So for me, it's just some of
Speaker 9: the vcs that I've approached to just I need to
Speaker 9: de risk myself. So yeah, they'll give me growth capital,
Speaker 9: but because I've had an interesting journey with vcs before,
Speaker 9: I think de risking myself in terms of like I
Speaker 9: want to exit push a part of my business, so
Speaker 9: I know that if you do screw me over, at
Speaker 9: least I have a soft landing.
Speaker 7: Is there an exit number?
Speaker 8: Obviously you know you said you got to step out
Speaker 8: of your business some time to work on it and
Speaker 8: see where you want to go in the future. Yeah,
Speaker 8: is there a number that you've had in mind, like
Speaker 8: if the business can be value that I can see
Speaker 8: myself starting here and maybe creating something else.
Speaker 7: Is it number as you ever?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Yeah, my number was twenty million dollars and now it's
Speaker 9: twenty five million, So.
Speaker 7: Was real there.
Speaker 4: So that was it.
Speaker 9: But I think for me, like money is money whatever,
Speaker 9: Like I think right now I'm thinking about the legacy.
Speaker 4: So let me ask you this. You said you had
Speaker 4: a bad experience with VC before. Yeah, can you talk
Speaker 4: about that? Yeah? For sure, Well why was it? What
Speaker 4: was the bad experience?
Speaker 9: So to kind of give you a background, I think
Speaker 9: it was an idea around It was like Vivo, but
Speaker 9: for independent artists, so it's kind of like creating created.
Speaker 9: It was an app that created created content for discovering
Speaker 9: new music, and it was doing really well and we
Speaker 9: raised VC money, angel money, etcetera. I think and this
Speaker 9: was the first, I guess, you know, first journey in
Speaker 9: this entrepreneur I think I think it just became And
Speaker 9: also me as a CEO learning like what type of
Speaker 9: CEO that I want to be and more importantly, what
Speaker 9: type of business I want to build? Because you can
Speaker 9: build a billion dollar business and you know, you might
Speaker 9: exit for a billion, but you've you're probably at the
Speaker 9: age of thirty, but you look fifty because you've been
Speaker 9: worked out like so hard. And I think I had
Speaker 9: to question, like what do I want. Do I want
Speaker 9: a business to help that is around my lifestyle and
Speaker 9: my stress levels, or do I want to have a
Speaker 9: billion in a bank but look like shit for the
Speaker 9: rest of my life? You know, I mean like, so
Speaker 9: to answer your question in terms of the VCS, I
Speaker 9: think all it did was is created too many layers
Speaker 9: of bureaucracy. So when you take VC money, you're not
Speaker 9: an entrepreneur. You're an employee to your own company. And
Speaker 9: it depends how comfortable you are with that. And I wasn't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like Dame Dare said, you're not a boss
Speaker 4: unless you put up all all the money. Somebody puts
Speaker 4: up money for you. They're your boss at the very
Speaker 4: least your partner exactly, and you can't just do whatever
Speaker 4: you want to do. You got to check some balances
Speaker 4: that's put in place.
Speaker 9: So true, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4: Important people to understand because it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 4: like you hear this, Okay, I got this money, but
Speaker 4: nothing in this world is free.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think that you see all these all
Speaker 9: this hyper around so and so raised ten million dollars,
Speaker 9: but really you didn't raise ten million. You've probably got
Speaker 9: a million, and now you have to hate these insane
Speaker 9: goals to get the rest of the money. And you've
Speaker 9: obviously diluted yourself. You'll probably own work, yeah, literally nothing
Speaker 9: of your company, and that's it, Like you know, you'll
Speaker 9: continue dilution once you take your first VC money. That's it.
Speaker 9: You're on a road to dilution. And you're on the
Speaker 9: road to being an employee of your own company, working
Speaker 9: a million hours a week. And if you exit for
Speaker 9: a billion, you'll be lucky enough to walk away with
Speaker 9: fifty million.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean yeah, people didn't think about that. So
Speaker 7: you started music that that was, you know, obviously an
Speaker 7: earning experience.
Speaker 8: Obviously you've had success with relax my parent, relaxed my relas,
Speaker 8: my dog likes my cat.
Speaker 7: Where do you see yourself going after this? Right?
Speaker 8: Because you said legacy, Yeah, I'm sure you want to
Speaker 8: leave your name or something.
Speaker 7: So what are we looking at.
Speaker 9: I think it's this business like and to give you
Speaker 9: an example of legacy, like, now, I've had this business
Speaker 9: for so long, as I was saying, you know, people
Speaker 9: have tried so many things for anxiety for their dogs,
Speaker 9: and sometimes it can be absolutely horrible the anxiety that
Speaker 9: they have. But they've come across our music and they're like,
Speaker 9: oh my god, this actually works. And then they're using
Speaker 9: it and using it and to the point where their
Speaker 9: dog dies and they're like, can I use this music
Speaker 9: for my dog's funeral because this is what had such
Speaker 9: a huge impact on my dog's life. And that is
Speaker 9: such an incredible honor to know that it was an
Speaker 9: integral part of the dog's life to help with their
Speaker 9: mental health. To be asked to use that music for
Speaker 9: their funeral now less times that by millions and millions.
Speaker 9: That's the legacy that we want is to have a
Speaker 9: positive impact on the mental health of as many pets
Speaker 9: as possible around the world.
Speaker 7: Are you seeing an impact on the actual owners themselves?
Speaker 9: Yeah? Well, obviously the emotional collection. The dog is happy,
Speaker 9: the owners happy, so yeah, and as a result, you
Speaker 9: know that it works because they go and tell loads
Speaker 9: of people, loads of people. As a result, our marketing
Speaker 9: spend is literally nothing.
Speaker 4: I mean that's like us, our marketing experience nothing, like
Speaker 4: we never really ran ads for the podcast. We won't
Speaker 4: ads for like different educational courses that we have, but
Speaker 4: we never run an ad for the podcast. We never marketing.
Speaker 4: It's just word of mouth, social media, people spreading it, collaboration,
Speaker 4: working with other people, and now like you know, we
Speaker 4: get some of their audience, they get some of our audience.
Speaker 4: Cross collaboration, and that's that's really been our blueprint. So
Speaker 4: I think the best form of advertising is word of
Speaker 4: mouth because you can't really pay for that.
Speaker 7: You can't.
Speaker 9: The stickiness of word of mouth I think it's eighty
Speaker 9: five percent. The stickiness of ads is fifteen at most,
Speaker 9: and that's a really good ad. So word of mouth
Speaker 9: all the way.
Speaker 4: Telefront Yeah yeah, And you know, it's one of these
Speaker 4: things where nobody's thinking about it, like you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, It's like, who would have thought that, you know,
Speaker 4: this would be something that would be a profitable business.
Speaker 4: But when you think about it, I mean it makes
Speaker 4: a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah, And people, you know,
Speaker 4: they love their dogs, so you created, you know, a
Speaker 4: space where there wasn't any competition. Then you became your
Speaker 4: own competition, which is very, very brilliant. So I think
Speaker 4: it's a lesson just entrepreneurs in general to just think
Speaker 4: outside the box, look at what somebody's not doing instead
Speaker 4: of looking at what somebody is doing, and create even
Speaker 4: if it's niche, Like, you can make a lot of
Speaker 4: money in niche spaces. You don't have to be you know,
Speaker 4: we're billions and billions of people are already competing.
Speaker 9: You don't have to. And I think there's the thing
Speaker 9: about entrepreneurship. I think in a sense it's a little
Speaker 9: bit become toxic in the sense that who builds the
Speaker 9: biggest business, who builds the billion dollar especially in New York.
Speaker 9: Like some guy wanted me to do a talk at
Speaker 9: the startup event and it was picturing. It's like, look,
Speaker 9: this guy just built an incredible business by himself, and oh,
Speaker 9: but how much is he raised. They're like, he said,
Speaker 9: he's not raised anything, He's built it himself. And they're like, nah,
Speaker 9: we need people that have raised It's like, you get
Speaker 9: penalized for.
Speaker 4: Being profitable, that's crazy.
Speaker 9: But when you get praised for raising loads of money
Speaker 9: and being in death, it makes no sense.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of.
Speaker 7: Lessons in it.
Speaker 8: Like I said, like a lot of times people will say,
Speaker 8: I don't know what my purpose is? What should I
Speaker 8: be doing? And I would tell them it's usually right
Speaker 8: in front of you. Right, So you had a skill,
Speaker 8: you applied it. It just so happens that you look, we
Speaker 8: can help this, and that was just something that's global.
Speaker 8: Could you have ever dreamed that? I was just kind
Speaker 8: of walking in my purpose. So there's always lessons in that,
Speaker 8: like there's something that you do right now, or it's
Speaker 8: skill that you have that you probably could have a monetization,
Speaker 8: or if you just maximize your creativity exactly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I think the other thing is a lot of people
Speaker 9: want that perfect idea to take a jump. I need
Speaker 9: the idea first time when you could take a jump.
Speaker 9: Doesn't work like that. You start with a side hustle
Speaker 9: or something and eventually it leads to that perfect idea.
Speaker 9: I think that's you shouldn't just wait for the perfect
Speaker 9: time and yeah, start on a side hustle.
Speaker 7: Then move.
Speaker 4: How is it in the UK for entrepreneurship, like you
Speaker 4: know in America? Obviously the tax system is really set
Speaker 4: up to benefit entrepreneurs and investors where you could take
Speaker 4: a lot of deductions. Yeah, Like you can write off
Speaker 4: like meals, you can write off plane tickets, you can
Speaker 4: write off marketing, write off a lot of stuff. We're
Speaker 4: a regular employee that works a job, they can't do that.
Speaker 4: Is it the same way here in the UK?
Speaker 9: Exactly the same. Yeah, you can write off a lot
Speaker 9: and you can get a lot of if you're doing
Speaker 9: research and development, you can get like R and D
Speaker 9: tax credits. It's about maybe I think I might be wrong,
Speaker 9: but a big percentage of your tax is given back
Speaker 9: to you. So there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 9: support here for entrepreneurs.
Speaker 8: So I mean that makes sense, right, because that's what
Speaker 8: you're doing most of research and development. You got to
Speaker 8: keep research. That's so when you keep saying we did
Speaker 8: the data, we did the data, we did the Databviously
Speaker 8: it's helping the business, but it's also helping from a
Speaker 8: tax standpoint.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes.
Speaker 9: But there's a lot of things you can do, like
Speaker 9: dividends pass up, for example, taking all your profits, putting
Speaker 9: in some holding company, then putting that into the markets.
Speaker 9: So there's there's loads of ways of Yeah.
Speaker 4: And you don't get tax on it. No, what's it called?
Speaker 4: Did pass up?
Speaker 9: Dividend pass up?
Speaker 4: Then you take practice from a business.
Speaker 9: I'm putting too, holding company, holding.
Speaker 4: Company, Yeah, and then invest that into the stock market.
Speaker 4: So and that's the way that not you don't pay
Speaker 4: taxes on it. That's that's interesting.
Speaker 9: I think you do pay tax on the trade that
Speaker 9: you do pay tax. Yeah, it's just minimized, but it's
Speaker 9: it's a good way. So, you know, talking about doing
Speaker 9: business in America, Like my biggest fairy is getting sued.
Speaker 9: It's so easy to get suited in America. But I
Speaker 9: think if you have a trading company that's bractically broke
Speaker 9: because all that money's gone to your holding company, it's like,
Speaker 9: sue me, it's fine. Nothing like look at look at
Speaker 9: Johnson and Johnson. They created they put all their liabilities
Speaker 9: in a company in Texas and if you saw the
Speaker 9: news and it's like you're suing a broke company.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: So it's just it's just creating safety nets.
Speaker 4: Learning a game, learning the game. Hire people's on your team,
Speaker 4: Like obviously you have the freelance freelance people, but how
Speaker 4: people's on your team in the UK, Like, do you
Speaker 4: have like a COO. Do you have a team in
Speaker 4: the UK or we do?
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's about six or seven of us in the UK. Yeah,
Speaker 9: so yeah, they're kind of they'll be with it's a
Speaker 9: long time, like my longest Rachel. She's she's been in
Speaker 9: my team for like six years now.
Speaker 4: And what does she do.
Speaker 9: Just engaged, engages with the fan base that's editing the
Speaker 9: content and everyone does pretty much the same thing. Okay,
Speaker 9: And there's no like hierarchy, there's no structures. Everyone's involved
Speaker 9: and that is.
Speaker 7: Just quite a tumble. Yeah.
Speaker 8: So I mean, obviously you said this little overhead, has
Speaker 8: it ever been a year since its inception with the
Speaker 8: company wasn't profitable?
Speaker 7: Almost seems like oh no, ready to be profitable?
Speaker 9: Now real profitable within six months?
Speaker 4: That was it.
Speaker 9: Kell the ball rolling. Yeah, and there was there was
Speaker 9: one point when I was going to take investment because
Speaker 9: you know, at the time, I think twenty thirteen twelve,
Speaker 9: you were reading tech Crunch. It's like, oh, this is
Speaker 9: how you need to be successful, like take investment, take investment.
Speaker 9: But then luckily I was like, nah, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 9: I just had to listen to my gut because the
Speaker 9: crowd is all about raising money, raise money, raise money.
Speaker 9: Where it's like, you know, just build a profitable business
Speaker 9: might take a look a bit longer, but you know,
Speaker 9: everything has to be developed around your mental health, your
Speaker 9: physical health, and your lifestyle. I think even if you
Speaker 9: before you even think about a business idea, think about
Speaker 9: a lifestyle you want first, and then how do I
Speaker 9: build a business around that lifestyle?
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's it's one of these things that
Speaker 4: even for us, like you know, we've been approached like
Speaker 4: you know, not like from VC firm, but other companies
Speaker 4: that might you know, kind of through out some ideas
Speaker 4: of like you know what, I'm like, why would we
Speaker 4: sell any portion of our company now when a we
Speaker 4: don't need the money and we're profitable and we're scaling
Speaker 4: at our pace. Like so how I look at like
Speaker 4: unless it's going to be something that is just unbelievable
Speaker 4: and you can't turn down, Yeah, what's the point, right,
Speaker 4: because it's like the only in how I look at it,
Speaker 4: take money for one or two reasons. You take money
Speaker 4: to scale, which you can actually scale through other ways too, partnerships,
Speaker 4: working with strategic you know, alliances like this, other ways
Speaker 4: to scale a brand other than just taking capital. But
Speaker 4: then also it's like all right, now exit once the
Speaker 4: company is already built. Now it's like all right, we're
Speaker 4: going to offer your money. We're actually gonna purchase your
Speaker 4: company from your personal portion of your company from you.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I feel like a lot of people
Speaker 4: automatically just think that that's the only way to scale,
Speaker 4: and like you said, by doing that, they can actually
Speaker 4: be ending up like kind of screwing themselves over.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it depends what type of business it is.
Speaker 9: I think if it's if profitability is a lot further
Speaker 9: down the line, then maybe raising might make sense.
Speaker 4: It's a lot more overhead too.
Speaker 9: Yeah, if you got some like crazy AI tech or
Speaker 9: whatever it is, then yeah it makes sense. But I
Speaker 9: think do everything you can to have income coming in.
Speaker 9: I think raising money is like the absolute last result.
Speaker 9: That's how I look at it. Like if your if
Speaker 9: there's no other way to make money, then but there
Speaker 9: always is, there's always always a way.
Speaker 4: Here, let's talk about some geographics before we leave. So
Speaker 4: you're from Manchester originally from Leeds and we are in London.
Speaker 4: So actually I was talking to somebody yesterday like you
Speaker 4: gotta come to Manchester and they're like, it's growing so
Speaker 4: much is woman So in America, obviously everybody knows London.
Speaker 4: Yeah they might have heard a man you or man
Speaker 4: United if but can you talk about the difference between
Speaker 4: Manchester and London? And like I said, I heard that
Speaker 4: Manchester is an actual up and coming city with a
Speaker 4: lot of development, So can you talk about that a
Speaker 4: little bit?
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's just like obviously with the pandemic, I think
Speaker 9: that was a big shift where people like, we don't
Speaker 9: need to be in London, businesses don't need to be here.
Speaker 9: So as a result, Manchester has grown very quickly. A
Speaker 9: lot of big companies are moving head like Amazon just
Speaker 9: opened up a huge office in Manchester. But just the
Speaker 9: text scene, everything is evolving very quickly. There are some
Speaker 9: big brands that have come out of there.
Speaker 4: And I think.
Speaker 9: I guess the US has major cities whereas the UK.
Speaker 9: You speak to any American, they're like you said, oh, London,
Speaker 9: Everyone assumes you're from London when you say it from Manchester,
Speaker 9: how's London. Yeah, I'm not going to correct myself, but
Speaker 9: Manchester is going to be on the map as a
Speaker 9: as a big second city. For everything, and just like
Speaker 9: in the time I've been there, they only had that
Speaker 9: one major tall building. Now it has like five or
Speaker 9: six and the text scene, the investment, everything is changing.
Speaker 9: She definitely come up.
Speaker 7: How was the real estate?
Speaker 8: I mean we've been we've been hearing and we've been
Speaker 8: seeing a lot of the real estate here in the
Speaker 8: price is it cheaper?
Speaker 7: I know you said that people realize that they didn't
Speaker 7: have to be in London.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it's like an exodus, absolutely a little bit
Speaker 8: less fast paced, right, And it's the real estate relatively,
Speaker 8: is it saying or is it a little bit cheaper?
Speaker 9: It's a little bit cheaper, but it is becoming, like
Speaker 9: the property prices arising and it will become like London,
Speaker 9: on par with London. And I think the best if
Speaker 9: you'm invest in real estate is the little towns around Manchester.
Speaker 9: Those are the smartest places.
Speaker 4: Like what's the name of use like even like.
Speaker 9: Like Bolton, all them like these places Bolton that these
Speaker 9: places are considered like really bad at the time, but
Speaker 9: they are like give it another five six years because
Speaker 9: of the access routes in too into Manchester certification, it's
Speaker 9: going to change super quick.
Speaker 4: So it's like a lower class suburb right now. But
Speaker 4: you can see the change happen.
Speaker 9: It changes happening, yeah, very quickly. Like even the apartments
Speaker 9: that I bought in the city center of Manchester, Like
Speaker 9: when I bought them, they were pretty much in the
Speaker 9: city center. It was a wasteland area. And now it's
Speaker 9: kind of like changed into I guess, like like Chelsea,
Speaker 9: New York, like that type of vibe. It's become super hipster.
Speaker 9: And literally that was in less than five years.
Speaker 7: You changed the neighborhood. Man, Sorry, I said you changed
Speaker 7: the neighborhood.
Speaker 4: Literally, yeah, early invested.
Speaker 9: I just saw I think the best thing to do was,
Speaker 9: like if you look on the planning permission website, you
Speaker 9: can see what planning permissions have been improved, and then
Speaker 9: you're like, all right, cool, let me get in now.
Speaker 9: So for example, Manchester City, which is now the biggest
Speaker 9: is so much bigger than Money United. That football team
Speaker 9: is owned by the Sheiks. Yeah yeah, so the stadium
Speaker 9: and that whole area, they're now building a huge arena
Speaker 9: next to it. So I bought property next to that
Speaker 9: because I thought, right five years it's a no brainer.
Speaker 9: Because you all you do is just look at planning
Speaker 9: permission and like the city is extending in all areas,
Speaker 9: let me get let me get in now.
Speaker 4: You know, it's so crazy because no matter where you are,
Speaker 4: it's the same thing. But you're speaking about the Mercedes
Speaker 4: Benz Stadium in Atlanta. That was something that you know,
Speaker 4: we were talking to Ti namous rapper in America and
Speaker 4: he was saying that he was buying property all around
Speaker 4: that area because he knew once the Mercedes been Stadium
Speaker 4: was there, the whole area is going to change and
Speaker 4: everything is going to become more valuable. And that's what happened.
Speaker 4: And also what you said as far as we just
Speaker 4: interviewed somebody a few days ago. Julian Gordon is a
Speaker 4: military investor in America, and he was talking about looking
Speaker 4: at the city plans like in America, like you can
Speaker 4: go to like local council meetings and like the city
Speaker 4: has like plans for like the next five ten years. Yeah,
Speaker 4: not necessarily exactly what's going to happen, but that's their plan.
Speaker 4: So they can say, Okay, like a shopping mall will
Speaker 4: be coming here in two years, so you kind of
Speaker 4: have an idea of what's going to happen. And then
Speaker 4: it's like you can make an educated decision like Okay,
Speaker 4: if Tesla's putting a car dealership, if there's a shopping mall,
Speaker 4: there's a grocery store, obviously the property value is going
Speaker 4: to go up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah, this year no brainer, I think. I think. I
Speaker 9: guess it's the decentralization of cities. Especially after the pandemic.
Speaker 9: People are, oh, I don't need to be in Manhattan
Speaker 9: or wherever. So I think now the suburbs. I just
Speaker 9: I no brainer sense of investments.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it makes sense, especially like a country,
Speaker 4: like you can't think there's like over thirty million people here,
Speaker 4: so everybody can't live in lone and then there's more
Speaker 4: people that's coming. Yeah, so it's a need for a
Speaker 4: second city or even a third city. Right, Yeah, it
Speaker 4: makes sense. And then even with the United Kingdom, I
Speaker 4: feel like a lot of a lot of Americans are
Speaker 4: fully educated on that either, like they think the UK
Speaker 4: and they think of London, England. Yeah, but it's like Wales, Scotland,
Speaker 4: Northern Ireland like this. That's why it's the United Kingdom, right,
Speaker 4: It's not just like one territory.
Speaker 9: It's like for something like that, right, Wills, Scotland.
Speaker 4: Yeah four. Yeah, that's a geography tip for you guys.
Speaker 4: Little education. So so what's what's what's what's your plan?
Speaker 4: What's your ten year plan? What's on your ten year plan?
Speaker 7: This is like the city planning board. It might happen.
Speaker 4: What's all your vision what's all your vision board? A plan?
Speaker 9: Mm hmmm. I don't think that far ahead, you know,
Speaker 9: not even that five days, six months, six months, Mass,
Speaker 9: six months, six months, mags.
Speaker 7: One month in Dubai. What we're going to do for the.
Speaker 9: Next yeah, but even now, like I don't know what
Speaker 9: I'm doing next month, So it's.
Speaker 4: Something figured out as it comes. The life of a bachelor.
Speaker 7: Works.
Speaker 4: But you just left why Yeah? How was that? The
Speaker 4: Bible was good?
Speaker 9: I originally went to do just for business, but for
Speaker 9: me it was just like actually let me step outside
Speaker 9: and just not doing any business. And yeah, I was
Speaker 9: networking and connecting with people, made some good friends, but
Speaker 9: business wise, not not much happened.
Speaker 4: You know, you was probably a fourth person because when
Speaker 4: I came, I know a few people from London connected
Speaker 4: with a line and I have reached out a few people,
Speaker 4: like four people. It was like, oh I'm in Dubai.
Speaker 4: To further notice, I wish I could make it, but
Speaker 4: I'm in Dubai and I was asking you, like, is
Speaker 4: that a thing like when every party from the UK
Speaker 4: is going to Dubai.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 9: The bye is literally like it's like you never left England.
Speaker 7: M h.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's very very British.
Speaker 4: Because there's so so much people from England over there. Yeah,
Speaker 4: why is it just because it's close? How far? How
Speaker 4: far a riot point?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 9: You look at eight hours.
Speaker 4: It's not that not that close, So why so many
Speaker 4: people from England? Because you can probably get to America
Speaker 4: and America.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's probably six house to America New York. I think
Speaker 9: people obviously opportunities. Du Boie is like trying to compete
Speaker 9: against the world in every aspect from crypto to real
Speaker 9: estate to tech to everything, and I think just job opportunities, lifestyle.
Speaker 9: British people love the sun. There was that time. All
Speaker 9: of that I guess kind of makes sense, but I
Speaker 9: think it's quite smart what that city did. They just
Speaker 9: meant Dubai is very like Instagrammable, and as a result,
Speaker 9: you know, their cost per acquisition is literally nothing. Because
Speaker 9: all these influencers are like talking about you.
Speaker 4: Know, I never thought about it like that. Instagramable. That's
Speaker 4: actually a very insightful take on it. They they theoretically
Speaker 4: could have built the city to get the most bang
Speaker 4: for his buck ever in history, because they've gotten the
Speaker 4: most social media free publicity any place ever in the
Speaker 4: history of the world. And it's like everybody's taking pictures
Speaker 4: in the forma of not being there, and they don't
Speaker 4: have to even run ads to try to get people
Speaker 4: to come to Dubai. You just see it on your
Speaker 4: Instagram feed.
Speaker 7: There's no travel.
Speaker 9: Like that pool that went to like Christiano Ronaldo was there. Yeah,
Speaker 9: obviously he put I assume it probably got paid for that.
Speaker 9: But I think, you know, even just bringing in celebrities
Speaker 9: and all this stuff, I think it's a smart move.
Speaker 2: Ye.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: And then the rest are just like and the city
Speaker 9: is like very very like instagrammable. Take a picture of
Speaker 9: anything it look it looked good, yeah, in the desert,
Speaker 9: yeah exactly. So that was it, And I think it's
Speaker 9: it's just smart how they've done it.
Speaker 4: Instagram moble Yeah, I like that. I like that. Make
Speaker 4: sure make sure whatever you do as an entrepreneur is instagrammable.
Speaker 4: The events have to be insteads like our events, their
Speaker 4: Instagram mobile create a moment that lasts forever, the sort
Speaker 4: of social media never goes away.
Speaker 9: Literally, that's it.
Speaker 4: Well, it's been a pleasure, my brother, thank you for
Speaker 4: joining us. What would you like to tell people as
Speaker 4: far as how can they follow you on social media website,
Speaker 4: you know, consuming the content all that information.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so go on YouTube, it's relaxed my dog, Relax
Speaker 9: my car. If you're gonna follow me personally on Instagram,
Speaker 9: it's Aman seven to seven is my Instagram, and then yeah,
Speaker 9: the rest check it out. Relax my dog, likes my cat,
Speaker 9: likes my.
Speaker 4: Dog, and relax my cat and calm my dog and calm.
Speaker 9: Like Actually, we have experimented with music for guinea pigs,
Speaker 9: thousand pets that we can come guinea pigs and rabbits. Yeah,
Speaker 9: so this is on pet tunes.
Speaker 4: And people have guinea pigs as pets.
Speaker 9: Yeah, loads, yeah, loads, But surprisingly it does work. Like
Speaker 9: obviously we've experimented with it and we took the same approach,
Speaker 9: but we're seeing like loads of people using it on
Speaker 9: their hamsters and guinea pigs and rabbits and oh my god,
Speaker 9: this is fish. I think we've tried that.
Speaker 4: Yeah water, No, I mean you just you know, put
Speaker 4: it close to the fish tank. People have fish tanks. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you put it, you put it close to the fish tank,
Speaker 4: or put it you put the TV fish kaw.
Speaker 7: They have.
Speaker 4: Parents, exactly parents because parents can actually repeat stuff too.
Speaker 9: They can't, Yeah, yeah they can.
Speaker 4: That'd be interesting to have like a training course for
Speaker 4: parents to speak.
Speaker 9: But it is interesting. There's so many different areas that
Speaker 9: ire saying earlier, like people that don't own dogs but
Speaker 9: live in California where weed is legal, U consume relax
Speaker 9: my dog.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, talk about that a little bit before we leave.
Speaker 4: So relax my dog is not. The content is not
Speaker 4: only consumed by dog lovers. It's consumed by potheads as well, right, no,
Speaker 4: no marijuana. They get they get high and they start
Speaker 4: the vibe off the vibes.
Speaker 9: It's crazy, like we saw I guess comments coming in
Speaker 9: where people are oh, because it's color graded, it's virtual,
Speaker 9: it looks kind of looks kind of trippy when you
Speaker 9: watch it and they're like, oh, yeah, I don't have
Speaker 9: a dog, but I love watching this when I'm high.
Speaker 9: And then first.
Speaker 4: Off, it was a joke high off what drug weed?
Speaker 4: I seem because when you say the colored thing, I'm
Speaker 4: thinking maybe psychedelics.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Stuff like that, but if you see it, the color
Speaker 4: is that. Not that I would know, but I'm just
Speaker 4: saying it would seem watching it on TV, it seems
Speaker 4: like that's the kind of trippy vibes you're in.
Speaker 7: I've seen others do that for people, So.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but it's crazy. First of it was a joke,
Speaker 9: but then there's like consistently I love watching it when
Speaker 9: I'm high.
Speaker 4: So that's a whole new market right there. Holy mind,
Speaker 4: A bit of a thought about marketing to that.
Speaker 7: Calm my wife, Calm.
Speaker 4: My high, calm my high. Comm my high is a
Speaker 4: good one. Come high because you don't get paranoid. It's like,
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, that's that's a good one.
Speaker 7: Roller coaster sometimes ain't gonna be tough to come.
Speaker 4: If you, if you watch the content, it'll soothe you.
Speaker 4: Even try give it a try.
Speaker 9: But like like I said, obviously it's mostly from America
Speaker 9: because I think a lot of states is legal now
Speaker 9: yeah all of them.
Speaker 4: Not all of them, twenty or maybe thirty over thirty, Yeah,
Speaker 4: a lot, a lot, and now they even have some
Speaker 4: states where psychedelics are llegal, like in Oregon mushroom mushrooms illegal.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 8: One of them is, like hardcore drugs is legal. I
Speaker 8: think that was the Oregon like LSD. It is something, right,
Speaker 8: I don't want to go that far.
Speaker 7: What like I think you're referring orgon.
Speaker 4: But in Amsterdam drugs are llegal.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, that's I think that's the only place in Europe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because out here you can't even smoke. We're not legal. No,
Speaker 4: none of it is so a little less progressive.
Speaker 7: Learning from my friends across the pond, Yeah, exactly, well
Speaker 7: did you have it?
Speaker 4: Did you have it, ladies and gentlemen, Troy housekeeping items.
Speaker 7: Yes.
Speaker 8: Shout to everybody on ey L University. Shout out to
Speaker 8: all our earners. Shout out to the entire uking fim.
Speaker 8: Like I said, we met a lot of people that
Speaker 8: are earners in We actually met myself. Shout out to
Speaker 8: ourself who was part of the uy L team and
Speaker 8: still doing stuff for us, So shout out to him.
Speaker 8: Shout to everybody that supported the merchant at the event
Speaker 8: and supported the merchant throughout the world.
Speaker 7: Man earr Leisure. There's an institution for financial literacy and
Speaker 7: everything entrepreneurial world. So thank God for your support. Man,
Speaker 7: keep rocking on us.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you guys for rocking with us. Shout out
Speaker 4: to the UK, Shout out to London. We'll see you
Speaker 4: next week.
Speaker 5: Peace my graduates from my school being forced back drop.
Speaker 2: Mike Drop, you.
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