1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. It is officially, uh, it 4 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: is officially now no longer Halloween season and still autumn. 5 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: We're moving on, We're moving on to November. Of course, 6 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: we're joined with the one and only super producer, Max Williams. 7 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: They call me Ben usually. No. This is the second 8 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: part of our two part series on Thanksgiving story that 9 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: I think neither of us knew about before we started 10 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: looking into. No, you know, it definitely makes sense, like 11 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: because I mean, within this very country as is pretty 12 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: pretty but still the case today, there's a bit of 13 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: a cultural divide at times over certain things, and something 14 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: has become associated with certain regions that maybe other regions 15 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: of the country and in the South do not um 16 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: bye bye or do not appreciate. And that was definitely 17 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: a thing we were leading up to the literal civil war, 18 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: the war pitting brother against brother and fighting for this 19 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: idea of whether it was okay to own another human being. Um. 20 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: And we in our last episode kind of got to 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: the lead up to this, uh, this incredible conflict UM 22 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: that took place on American soil. But the rhetoric was 23 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: already starting to heat up, and Thanksgiving was becoming a 24 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: big talking point, this idea of like, oh, Thanksgiving as 25 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: a Yankee, you know, um abolitionists holiday, and it shouldn't 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: be required because it was becoming a thing that individual 27 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: states were trying to pass a day that would be 28 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: set aside for a Thanksgiving type celebration, and it was 29 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: becoming this kind of bone of contention, right, yeah, exactly. 30 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: On the other side of the conflict, we have Sarah Hale, 31 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: who was waging a sort of one woman mission to 32 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: make everybody get on the same page about celebrating Thanksgiving. 33 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: But because Thanksgiving was championed by people who were also abolitionist, 34 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: the Southerners, some Southerners automatically hated it. There was a 35 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: palpable tension in the room of the country. And that's 36 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: what Part two picks up. Because Hail doesn't continue to 37 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: fight for Thanksgiving on a massive scale when the Civil 38 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: War hits, despite the fact that she puts that on pause. 39 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: A lot of things went on pause during the war. 40 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: People are still having smaller Thanksgivings of their own, you know. Yeah, well, 41 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean you know, Haile definitely knew how to read 42 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: the room, as did President Abraham Lincoln and self, who 43 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: seemed to be inching towards creating a national proclamation that 44 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: would set Thanksgiving as a national holiday instead of leaving 45 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: it up to the states. And even though Lincoln himself 46 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: did have an unofficial Thanksgiving meal with his family just 47 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: after being elected president, featuring roast turkey and all of 48 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: those you know, famous sides that we talked about, really 49 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: revolving around this notion of good health and prosperity for 50 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,119 Speaker 1: the family. Despite his enjoyment of those fixings, he could 51 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: read the room and knew what a divisive subject this 52 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: was and decided he would, you know, put a pen 53 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: in it. So when the Civil War did break out 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: in earnest on April twelfth, eighteen sixty one, and those 55 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: plans for a national Thanksgiving holiday took a back seat 56 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: um to the violence between the North and South, Sarah 57 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: Jcifa Hale didn't really stop. I want to jump in 58 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: here because to clarify, she was still she was still 59 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: on her mission, but people weren't paying attention and she 60 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: didn't have as much support even though she was, you know, 61 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: even though she was still the editorial head of that 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: very popular magazine magazine. It was a really banal kind 63 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: of name. It was something like Ladies Journal something Ladies Journal. 64 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: If I'm not must ladies book, that's Cody's Lady's book. 65 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: They could have done a better job, but you know, 66 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: she was still on her bullshit, you know, on her Thanksgiving, 67 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: on her Thanksgiving you know crusade, which was all about 68 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: kind of creating this idyllic image of Thanksgiving, you know, 69 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: as a cultural thing. That and also showing that it 70 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily something tied to, you know, either the North 71 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: or the South, or any particular type of religious ideology, 72 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: which I think is funny, um because that became a 73 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: bone of contention for some folks, to the idea that 74 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: it was a religious holiday, which it really never has 75 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: been in my eyes, aside from you know, a few 76 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: hymns that might have a little bit of a religious connotation. 77 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: So flash forward a little bit to eighteen six d two. 78 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: The President of the Confederacy, Mr. Jefferson Davis did issue 79 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Day proclamations after some Southern victories, which is interesting, 80 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: starting to co opt it a little bit. Right now, 81 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: we've got two competing days of thanks for ideas about 82 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: how they should be handled, because Lincoln officially calls for 83 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: day of thanks in April of the same year after 84 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: some Union victories, and then he calls for it again 85 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: after the Battle of Gettysburg in eighteen sixty three. So 86 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: Hale writes to Lincoln shortly after his Summer Proclamation, and 87 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: she also writes to William Seward, then Secretary of State, 88 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: and she is saying, Hey, I hope everything's going all right. 89 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of stuff on your plate 90 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: right now, but how about how about we declare a 91 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: national Thanksgiving. The Executive branch has the power to make 92 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: this holiday a permanent American custom. The exact line she 93 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: uses is, thus the Great Union Festival of America would 94 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: be established. Lincoln's personal feelings on this immediately after receiving 95 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: the letter, uh, they may be lost to history, but 96 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: we know that within just a week of Seward receiving 97 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: a letter from Hale, he had drafted an official proclamation 98 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: for President Lincoln. And that's where we get this. That's 99 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: where we get this date, which always seemed a little 100 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: confusing to me growing up. The final Thursday in November 101 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: it's it's something that they thought would help heal the nation, 102 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: which is weird because Southerners didn't like it before the war, right, 103 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: so how are they going to feel after the war? 104 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: And why were there too Thanksgivings in eighteen sixty three. 105 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: I've also never been a fan of holidays that are 106 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: on the something, the something's day of the month, you know, 107 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: that's changed from year to year. I just find it confusing. 108 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: And that's why I, I swear to God, I thought that, Uh, 109 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: I thought the Thanksgiving would just always in novembery you know, 110 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: but I'm obviously a dumb dumb But at least you 111 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: know Halloween steadfast, we know when that is Christmas, we 112 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: know when that is Thanksgiving a little more amorphous, And 113 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: I guess it makes sense because it kind of came 114 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: from these a morphous beginnings. Here's a little snippet of 115 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: this proclamation. Um, I'm just gonna do it in my 116 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: own voice. I do, therefore invite my fellow citizens in 117 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: every part of the United States, and also those who 118 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: are at sea and those who are sojourneying in foreign lands, 119 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November 120 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: next as a day of thanksgiving and praise. Interesting to 121 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: our beneficent father who dwelleth in the heavens. Wow, whatever 122 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: happened a separation of church and state. Wasn't that a thing? 123 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: You know? How it is? I mean, there's never been 124 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: an atheist president, that's true. It was even controversial for 125 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: there to be Catholic presidents, right, our beneficent father who 126 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: dwelleth in the heavens. Come on, it sounds a little 127 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: love crafty. And honestly, whenever I hear dwelleth, I think 128 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: of I don't immediately think of churches, but uh, I 129 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: don't think of the thing people dwelling in the heavens. 130 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: By the way, dwelling is something a giant monster does 131 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: beneath the sea. That's how in a cave. Yeah, that's 132 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: how we associate it. Right, he's dead, but dreaming will 133 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: rise whatever. So big Cathulu vibes. So this is pre 134 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: Cthulhu mythos, of course, So nobody's getting the lovecraft vibes. 135 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: Yet Lincoln goes on and he urges the citizens of 136 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: the country to take the opportunity to here's more religious language, 137 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: to commend to capital h his tender care all those 138 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: who have become widows, orphans, mourners, or sufferers, and the 139 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged. And 140 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: then he asked for the interposition of the almighty hand 141 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: to heal the wounds of the nation. Uh talks about 142 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: divine purpose. There's no official, like hardcore evidence that Hails 143 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: letters caused Lincoln to make this proclamation, but the writing 144 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: is kind of on the wall, right, this seems like 145 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: it definitely played a role. And in eighteen sixty four 146 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: A again said, all right, last Thursday in November, you 147 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: gotta get together with people. You gotta have some kind 148 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: of Thanksgiving. Then I have a theory Thanksgiving Turkey. You Now, 149 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: at the top of episode one, I've talked about how 150 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: terrifying I think it is. You know what it looks like. 151 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: It looks kind of like a cathoulu Oh, I'm gonna 152 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: send you something I have. This is this is worth it. 153 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna drop it in the chat here. I 154 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: don't know if you guys are aware of this, but 155 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: you're about to have a wonderful moment. You know, pause 156 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: for a second through the mad of podcasting so I 157 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: can share this with you. M Okay, this is happening live, folks. 158 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna spook spook max again. Okay, there 159 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: it is, here we go. Oh my god, it's turkey 160 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: Ulu like a turkey a toe turkey. Yeah, so yeah, 161 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: this is what are those freaking octopus eggs? His eyes? Yeah? Yeah, 162 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: there there are a couple of different ones here. There's 163 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: also an octopus poured out of the cavity with some 164 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: crab legs coming out of the sides. And oh my good, 165 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: this is okay. Yeah. My theory, Ben is the HP 166 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: Lovecraft was inspired by the turkey and perhaps this very 167 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: ominous Thanksgiving proclamation. Yeah, well, maybe that's what all I'll 168 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: bring to the table when we all get together for 169 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: the holiday. Please please God. Second one, Ben, the second one, one, Ben, 170 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: it looks delicious. Well maybe I'm down. I'm down to 171 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: eat caulu. I'm down to try to some elder God flesh. 172 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: The second one, I will say, the cook on the 173 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: turkey itself is a little more to my liking. The 174 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: I might eat that when the first one looks almost 175 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,119 Speaker 1: like the turkey is like raw or something. It's very underdone. 176 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: But but that's slight diversion aside. Uh, we're just here 177 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: to show you that there's been a lot of a 178 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: lot of progress and innovation in the world of cooking turkey, 179 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: maybe not all of it for the best. Still that 180 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: was you know, the conventional thing that people would eat 181 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving, and the Thanksgiving of eighteen sixty four was 182 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: heavily militarized. There was a lot of propaganda. It was 183 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: all about thanking the Union troops. And this also shows 184 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: us some early evidence of the feast becoming the highlight 185 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: of the holiday. So it's not just generically giving thanks 186 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: for something now, it's getting together and eating while you 187 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: give thanks. So they also through UM, through this big 188 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: feast for Union veterans, and you know as probably as 189 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: part of Thanksgiving. Yeah, this thing called the Union League 190 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: Club of New York. Uh was very focused on making 191 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: sure that soldiers, whether they are on land or water 192 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: or abroad, did not go without a Thanksgiving dinner. And 193 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: it's also that's it's it really has become kind of 194 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: a thing that charities do as well, like in you know, 195 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: under underserved communities around the country. UM is the idea 196 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: of passing out Christmas turkeys or Thanksgiving turkeys, you know, 197 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: like out of trucks. It's the thing you do to 198 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of earn the goodwill of your community, right Yeah. Yeah, 199 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: And there's a you know this has changed during COVID, 200 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: but there's a tip that I would like to give people. 201 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: If you have a little free time, Um, if you 202 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: can't make it to your own Thanksgiving for scheduling or 203 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: for travel costs or something, be aware that a lot 204 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: of those places, especially if you live in a large city, 205 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: a lot of those places need help. So if you 206 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: want to volunteer, you will be welcome. There's a thing 207 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: that you can also do for community service providers, for firefighters, 208 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, people working in hospitals just uh, make make 209 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: a snack or make some cupcakes, drop it off because 210 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: they still have to work, you know what I mean. 211 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: They don't really get holidays off the way a lot 212 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: of other people do. Again, Um, that may have changed 213 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: during COVID. The requirements maybe like something has to be 214 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: sterilized and prepackaged, but I can guarantee you people appreciate 215 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: it because they're often doing thankless jobs. Yeah. And and 216 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: back back in the days that we're talking about, the 217 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: Union League Club of New York got a lot of 218 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: support from volunteers. They got a lot of support from 219 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: local restaurants and kitchens that would volunteer their their facilities 220 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: to cook the food. It would be turkey and cranberry 221 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: sauce and a lot of those other fix things that 222 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: we've been talking about. Um, I think by now the 223 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: chicken pot pie was probably fully gone, which makes me 224 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: sad because I do love a chicken pot pie. But then, 225 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: have you have Have you had fresh cranberry sauce? Actually, 226 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: like you know, it's not for everybody, but I will 227 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: say it is delicious, especially when compared to that awful 228 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: stuff that slowly slides out of the can and can shape. 229 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of that stuff. And for the 230 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: longest time I thought that was the only game in town, 231 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: and so I thought I did not like cranberry sauce. 232 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: But in fact I had some really nice, artisanal cranberry 233 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: sauce and it was quite good. It makes a difference, 234 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta argue with you. No, I've had 235 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: like the like fresh ones like a bunch of times, 236 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: not canberries, the really gross slime ones. Those are the 237 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: best where it still has the shape of the cans. 238 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: The rim is so slow dog food. I feel it. 239 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: But it's kind of like you can have it. You 240 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: can have it all. Max Will we have a rediculous 241 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: history Thanksgiving together, and I will have just like multiple 242 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: cans of Analey right next to Knowla's straight out of 243 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: the can, and I'll bring my cathuw turkey. Uh will 244 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: have a big old time. It's Uh. It's funny though, 245 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: because the canonization or standardization of what constitutes a Thanksgiving 246 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: meal kind of reminds me of something that's been on 247 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: my mind, uh for a few months now, which is 248 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: the gradual disappearance of McDonald's mascots. They went away, kind 249 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: of chicken pot pie. When's the last time you saw 250 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: Grimace or the Hamburglar or mayor what's his name, Mick cheese, 251 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: m cheese mayor mccheese. Yeah, they've They don't think there 252 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: are a lot of use them anymore, are they They Well, 253 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: they don't. And Vice has a really great article on 254 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: the disappearance of Ronald McDonald which is kind of cryptic. Actually, 255 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: maybe we do it, eppisothough he does still survive in 256 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: the philanthropic wing of McDonald's the Ronald McDonald house. Their 257 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: logo still is a kind of weird gloved clown hand 258 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: holding hands with the child's hands right, which is a 259 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: little sinister. But it's the one place you still see 260 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: the Ronald McDonald name even thrown around and the old statues. 261 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: I guess they're just they're not making new commercials. If 262 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: they do make new commercials, if you're listening McDonald's commercial makers, 263 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: go back to that very first terrifying, old school Ronald 264 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: McDonald clown. You guys remember that when jeverssy that guy, 265 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, nightmare fuel. Yes, big red wig, right, big 266 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: red kind of fuzzy, frizzy wig. Or am I thinking 267 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: of Oh it's worse, It's so much worse. Hang on, 268 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: Oh good lord. He's got like a cup on his 269 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: nose yeah yeah, And and like the blood of children 270 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: steared across his face. Wow. Yeah. And he had a 271 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: magic belt kind of like Fannie pack thing for what, 272 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: whipping children with generate burgers and fries and milkshakes. This 273 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: is absolute nightmare field. We'll check out the videos. That 274 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: some kind of box on his head. It looks like 275 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: a box of the way the turkey. I think I've 276 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: still got some Halloween and me, guys, so clearly, well, 277 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: I did say from the start that Thanksgiving as a 278 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: terrifying holiday. I mean, that was my pitch, do you 279 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: guys for us doing this at this time? And we 280 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: had a nice little bridge here because our first episode 281 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: took place dury in October, but now this episode is 282 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: coming out in November, so we're we're kind of crossing 283 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: the calendar calendar stream here. We're making new traditions, right, 284 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: And that's what I'm all about. That's what the that's 285 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: what the US was trying to do at this time. 286 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: But despite the success of beautiful things like the Union 287 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: League Clubs Thanksgiving Dinner, people in the South still didn't 288 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: like the idea of following the Northern model of a 289 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving holiday. It wasn't until after the end of the 290 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: reconstruction era that Southern community leaders began to celebrate Thanksgiving 291 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: in the Northern way because they wanted the South to 292 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: get back into the national commercial life. That's really what 293 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: it was. They wanted businesses to come back and invest, 294 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: and because of this, they felt an incentive to I 295 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: conform really is probably the best way to say it. 296 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: That's right. They did have to kind of show solidarity 297 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: in some way or another, right the same way that Germans, 298 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, after the Nazi regime we're toppled, had this 299 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: kind of collective guilt almost there's even a word for 300 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: it in German. I believe it's Begangan Heights, and I 301 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: refer specifically to a collective uh national um guilt surround 302 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: in the Holocaust. So there obviously was a culture of 303 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: you know, never forgetting. You know, certain relics became illegal 304 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: and very heavily regulated. I'm not comparing the South at 305 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War to Nazi Germany. I'm 306 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: just saying there's a similar kind of you know, uh 307 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: ZEITGEISTI kind of need to conform and make amends. Yeah, 308 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: and this conformity is culinary in part, they have to 309 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: start making turkey dinners and pumpkin pies, which they regarded 310 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: largely as a northern thing. The editors of national magazines, 311 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: again most national, most of the big magazines were made 312 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: in the Northeast. They all stepped up and followed Hale's example. 313 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: That's why if you look at publications like Harper's Bizarre, 314 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: Goadie's Ladies Book, and Good Housekeeping you'll see so many 315 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: like recipe ideas for Thanksgiving, and newspapers in the South 316 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: also had these detailed in instructions. Thanksgiving now was no 317 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: longer a thing where you would just get together with 318 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: your loved ones and you know, cook whatever you happen 319 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: to have on hand. Now it was increasingly codified Thanksgiving 320 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: equals turkey, which is probably great for the turkey industry. 321 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 1: Let's be honest, Thanksgiving cranberries, Thanksgiving equals pumpkin pies. And 322 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: here's something that's interesting. Um, we were just talking about 323 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: our preferences for cranberry sauce. It turns out that cranberries 324 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: weren't even a fruit that was cultivated, uh, south of 325 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: New Jersey. Um. It was very much a northern um, 326 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: you know crop. So the fact that Southerner started to 327 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: include that in their meals showed that kind of solidarity, um, 328 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: and that they were like ready to you know, kind 329 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: of buckle down and become part of the union. And again, 330 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: I now, I'm I was gonna take it out, but 331 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna edit myself ever so slightly. There we 332 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: know that there was not some sort of collective guilt 333 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: or that instantly the South felt bad for what they 334 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: had done. That's literally what you know, led to racism 335 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: and the long hard period of reconstruction. Um and and 336 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: then of course into segregation. So it's not like all 337 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden, oh we lost, we see the air 338 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: of our ways. We're gonna start doing Thanksgiving and we're 339 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: gonna be good boys and girls. That's not how it went. Um. 340 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: It was a lot of it was probably pageantry to 341 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: you know, just to get things back to normal, but 342 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: a lot of simmering resentments, uh certainly remained simmering, like 343 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: a like a nice pan of cranberry sauce. Yeah. And 344 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: if you go forward to the eighteen eighties, you see 345 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: places like the Augusta Chronicle, which should be familiar to 346 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: unual uh conc commenting U things like, I'll say, most 347 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: of the Thanksgiving will take the form of gastronomic plagile. 348 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: Every person who can have a full turkey or procuate 349 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: wheels sacrific fast the noble American foul to date. Uh 350 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: Like this is just an example of how it's odd 351 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: because it seems so coordinated. Right, every publication note is 352 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: saying don't just give thanks but specifically eat turkeys and 353 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: and eat cranberries and if the making telegraph even said, 354 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: and if you can afford it, you know, pop open 355 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: some wine, you know what I mean? Party time. This 356 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: became over this period of the eighties to about eight nine, 357 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: this became a more and more commonly celebrated holiday and 358 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: celebrated in an increasingly uniform way. It became so popular 359 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: fact that the Charlotte News remarked that Thanksgiving as a 360 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: holiday was second only to Christmas, which I don't know, 361 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: what do you guys think about that in the hierarchy 362 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: of holidays. It's pretty popular in terms of like the 363 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: big family gathering and one that has given a lot 364 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: of precedent, you know, in workplace situations. In terms of 365 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: definitely having to have it off. I would say their 366 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: neck and neck. Yeah, I don't say like they gotta 367 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: they gotta be like yeah, Christmas one, I mean Harbor Day, 368 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: I mean what I mean? What would be also be 369 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: a considerational Independence Day, New Year's Day, Indigenous People's Day. Yes, 370 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: apparently we still don't call it that in the South. 371 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: That's a bit of a bummer, we don't. There's also 372 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: let's see, there's Memorial Day, right, that's a big one 373 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: that's Labor Day, uh, Halloween. Most just mostly just thing 374 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: in the days that we get half days here at 375 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: our heart. Yeah you're thinking of the days we get 376 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: days off. Yes, uh, of course June tenth, which I'm 377 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: happy to say is is now a holiday at our company. Anyhow, 378 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving becomes very popular. Typical menu for nine Thanksgiving would 379 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: be stuff like oysters which is cool, roast turkey with 380 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes, celery, and uh, Irish potatoes just 381 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: two potatoes, potatoes. But that's I was trying to think 382 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: what an Irish potato is, like, how is that any different? Well, 383 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you've ever been to like five Guys 384 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: Burgers and Fries, they have a board that tells you 385 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: where the potatoes come from every time, and they're from 386 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: all over the country. But when I think of Irish potato, 387 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: is it just kind of like a Russet type potato, 388 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: like a big spun. It's just a differentiated, I think 389 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: from the sweet potato. So there is something cool here. 390 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: The South starts passing on its own Thanksgiving traditions. For 391 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: an explanation, this will turn to William R. Ferris, who 392 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: was a history professor and Senior Associate Director at the 393 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: Center for the Study of the American South at u 394 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: n C. In Ferris's estimation, you can see you can 395 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: see the Southern touches on the traditional Thanksgiving like, um, 396 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: you might have soul food. Corn bread dressing is a 397 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: big thing. You might have candy gams. People also might 398 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: cook their turkeys differently, like fry a turkey that's pretty cool. Um, 399 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: or make dressing with with fresh oysters. I've never done 400 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: oyster dressing. Yep, my mom has. Uh. She's also a 401 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: big fan of making oyster stew on Christmas Morning, some 402 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: sort of a tradition. But yeah, exactly. Um, oyster dressing 403 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: is fabulous if you're into oysters. They're not fried, they're 404 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: kind of chopped, but they just add a little of 405 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: that ummy to it. I'm a big fan of, like, 406 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: you know, mushroom dressing, like just different types. Like have 407 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: give me like three or four different types of dressing. 408 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: It's the best. I have a weird, completely off topic 409 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: story about oysters, but I'm gonna throw it in here. Uh. 410 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: When I was out in Seattle, I met up with 411 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: my buddy and he had driven up from Portland. I 412 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: had flown, like you know, from Atlanta to Seattle. It 413 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: was like five pm. I even. We're like, all right, 414 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna get some foods. We went pizza place trying 415 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: to be really nice, and we're looking at the menu 416 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: and we're like, all right, it's gotten like oyster pizza. 417 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: Go on, is this gonna be any good? We just 418 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: ordered it. It was like the best thing I've eat 419 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: in my entire life. What kind of cheese did it have? 420 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: I have no earthly idea. I just thought it always 421 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: there's and ordered it. And I was like, I asked him. 422 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: I asked my buddy, like, hey, would you be down 423 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: to split this Thing's like sure, man, I'll eat something 424 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: weird with you. I'm stupid hungry. That's awesome. Yeah, we 425 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: gotta try that. And Max, let us know if you 426 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: can recall the name of that place, because I because 427 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: my social life is very interesting, I find myself just 428 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: reading menus of restaurants across the world at the weirdest times. Actually, no, 429 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: I can predict it. It's usually what I should be 430 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: eating something. You know. I'm like, hmmm, what is the 431 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: best restaurant in Bangladesh? What do they serve on the menu, 432 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: what would I get there? So the reason I bring 433 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: up that example is a kind of living vicariously through 434 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 1: the idea of of these foods. And foods are a 435 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: powerful folk way. Uh. They are a nine turns sometimes 436 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: a divider. And maybe one of the reasons thanks Giving 437 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: became so popular in this country now is because it 438 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: feels for most people a political right. You're putting aside 439 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,479 Speaker 1: differences to have have um a very traditional meal with 440 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: each other. And Ferris points out, I think Ferris would 441 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: agree with us on this. You know, he certainly would. Yeah, 442 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: these you know, it certainly was again something that none 443 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: of the three of us had associated with it at all. 444 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: But it wasn't fully during this um Civil War period 445 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: that this step actually happened. It wasn't until nine that 446 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: President Franklin Roosevelt briefly move Thanksgiving up an entire week 447 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: in a pretty misguided effort to extend that shopping period 448 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: before Christmas. Uh. And I believe people kind of collectively 449 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: lost their minds at the very least, just like did 450 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: not do it right. Sixteen difference state said get out 451 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: of here with that, get out of here with your 452 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: weird calendar. Shenanigans, and this led Roosevelt to actually reverse 453 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: his decision two years later, and so in the fall 454 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: of U s. Congress passed the resolution returning the holiday 455 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: to the fourth Thursday of November and making it a 456 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: permanent thing, so presidents no longer had to issue a 457 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: new declaration or proclamation every single year. And in this case, 458 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: we also give a kudos to Sarah Hale because she 459 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: had chosen the very similar date, the last Thursday in 460 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: November for Thanksgiving, because she thought it would be distraction free. 461 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: It's after the fall harvest, and it's after any potential elections. 462 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: With that, I think the best way to end our 463 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: story here is to ask ourselves what happened to our 464 00:28:54,680 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving protagonists, our champion of culinary traditions, Sarah Turkey Turkey, 465 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: yes McDonald, of Ronald McDonald. It's just oh man, I 466 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: don't know why that image makes my day, but yes, 467 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: those those dudes. But also Sarah Hale. She went on to, 468 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, we have a really successful career as an 469 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: actor in a very popular HBO series called Sex in 470 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: the City. Yeah, little doing fact, little known fact. No, no, 471 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: I I obviously could she would in fact continue Despite um, 472 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, having her her whole master plan, her evil 473 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: holiday master plan uh successfully enacted, she continued to have 474 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: a pretty big impact on Thanksgiving moving forward. She also 475 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: changed the way elementary school kids learned about the whole 476 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: methos of the First Thanksgiving. UM. Right before Sarah's big 477 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: old campaign for Thanksgiving, that romanticized version that I'm talking 478 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: about wasn't really a thing. But in eighteen sixty five, 479 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: Sarah described the First Thanksgiving as this kind of, you know, 480 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: a little bit pat romanticized meeting between the Pilgrims and 481 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: Native Americans, and how it was all, you know, maize 482 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: and handshakes and hugs, and it got reprinted in a 483 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: bunch of publications. UM, And in around five years that 484 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: became the narrative. And though it's not historically accurate, that 485 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: is what people went with. No airbrush doesn't begin to 486 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: describe it. In fact, studies show the First Thanksgiving was 487 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: probably a lot more like a political negotiation as opposed 488 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: to a Turkey party. Sarah Hale went on to spend 489 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: forty years as the editor of Goadie's Ladies Book. She 490 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: published her very last column in December of eighteen seventy seven. 491 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: She was widely known as the Mother of Thanksgiving when 492 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: she passed away in April of eighteen seventy nine at 493 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: the age of ninety. Yes, he's kind of a uh. 494 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: I don't know that the idea of the story of 495 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving that she sort of you know, popularized to me 496 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: is largely the checkered part of her legacy. You know, 497 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: I have no problem with the holiday, uh, and it 498 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: being a time of thanks and it is you know, 499 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: again a really good way of introducing some some some 500 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: culinary you know, activities into otherwise, you know, maybe homes 501 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: that wouldn't normally cook. I think that's cool, but you know, 502 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: the whole like and then the Indians welcomed the settlers 503 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: with open arms instead. Everything was all cool and they 504 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: just eight foods together and totally gave him the thumbs up. 505 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: You know. That's kind of the vibe through the trail 506 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: of tears. Everything was by everybody at a Turkey brand. 507 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: Everything was great. Yeah, that's unfortunately, as we see, you know, 508 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: there there was a lot of propaganda involved in the 509 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: creation of this as a new notifying cultural touchstone. But Thanksgiving, 510 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: or some version of it, is not restricted to the US. Uh. 511 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: We we know of a a wonderful story of a 512 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: tiny little island part of Australia, hundreds and hundreds of 513 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: miles away from the mainland, home to less than two 514 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: thousand people. It's Norfolk Island and they love Thanksgiving. Yeah. 515 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: Apparently the island was originally populated by folks who were 516 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: descended from uh some British sailors who actually did a 517 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,719 Speaker 1: mutiny on the h MS Bounty and they survived and 518 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: uh took several Tahitians captive, where they fled to Pitcaren 519 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: Island in seventeen ninety uh and then they obviously, you know, 520 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: had kids and stuff. And then in eighteen fifty six 521 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: their kids moved to the larger island nearby, uh, the 522 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: Norfolk Island. So it's become kind of a weird combination 523 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: of Tahitian and you know, European Thanksgiving kind of celebration. Yes, 524 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: so if you happen to be in Norfolk Island it's 525 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: the last Wednesday in November, then you can hang out 526 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: at their Thanksgiving service. So you might ask yourself, hang on, 527 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: why do these folks almost on the other side of 528 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: the world celebrate this American holiday. Well we have the 529 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: answer thanks to Anne you Bank over at Atlas Obscura. 530 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: She explains that Norfolk Island has always been kind of 531 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: a pit stop for people who are traveling by sea. 532 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,959 Speaker 1: And in seven, as we're getting to the height of 533 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: Thanksgivings acceptance, there's a resident of Norfolk Island, a guy 534 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: named Isaac Robertson, who becomes the American Consul, meaning he's 535 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: the diplomatic representative of the United States. And so one 536 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: year he decided he wanted to celebrate Thanksgiving, so he 537 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: decorated the pews of the local church with paul leaves 538 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: and lemons. Uh, and he just he just made it 539 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: a thing. He just made it happen. Hey, everybody checked 540 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: out American culture. When he passed away. Uh, people kept 541 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: up the holiday with their own list. And yeah, you know, 542 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: because I was wondering, I said something like, sort of 543 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: off handily, like, oh, so, I guess they're celebrating sort 544 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: of like a hybrid sort of UK version of Thanksgiving, 545 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: which isn't really a thing. They do celebrate a Thanksgiving 546 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: esque holiday with some of the same trimmings, like with 547 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: turkey and stuff, but it's more of a fall harvest festival. 548 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: Uh than it than it would be considered Thanksgiving. So 549 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: this was sort of a three times removed Americanized Thanksgiving 550 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: sort of celebration. It's very interesting. Yeah, And every family 551 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: in the US tends to have their own sort of 552 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: traditions for this time of year. For example, you may 553 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: have a relative who always makes the same cast role 554 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: every year, and that's like what they're known for, their 555 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,959 Speaker 1: corn cast role or what have you. You may have 556 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: traditional side dishes, or you may have a spot you 557 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: always meet at. We'd love to hear more about your 558 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: personal Thanksgiving traditions and then we'd love to hear your 559 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: ideas of I'd love to hear ideas of Um, if 560 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: every holiday that we named in the show had like 561 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: a meal, like if there was we know there's a 562 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: Christmas feast, right people, like people have goose in Britain 563 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: for Christmas sometimes, But what would what would the meal 564 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: be for you know, Memorial Day or Harbor Day or 565 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: what are the other ones we named? Harbor Day would 566 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: be presumably just dried leaves or something, or what a 567 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: whole tree or the tree eats you because respecting the tree, right? Okay? Yeah, 568 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: sacrifice sacrifice, blood sacrifice. We keep going dark in this 569 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: wee peek behind the curtains. Folks, we are recording this 570 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: just a few days before Halloween. Maybe that's it. You 571 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: guys got in costume idea us. By the way, I 572 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: have decided to be a middle aged white man. Yeah, 573 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: I have decided to be a just slightly younger than 574 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: nol middle aged white man. You guys are doing a 575 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: couple's costume. It's so what a little wild ride this is. 576 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but this is definitely 577 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: made me hungry, which means that instead of actually eating, 578 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna read menus from other countries. Well, I 579 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: ordered too much Chinese food for lunch, so I am 580 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: going to do what for many is also a Thanksgiving 581 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: tradition and eat a ton of Chinese food, right right, 582 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: And with that we give thanks. That's sort of a 583 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: tradition of our show. We're sort of a very thanks 584 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: forward show, if you think about in every episode with 585 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: pouring our hearts out and thanksgiving to all those who 586 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: have made this show possible, including Max Williams, super producer 587 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: extraordinaire Alex Williams, who composed our theme Gabe Louisier, the 588 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: King of Thanksgiving, the Great Pumpkin Gabe Lousier, Turkey Jathan 589 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: simply our number one turth. Fucking Now, that sounds weird 590 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: to how what did you call it? Banta to Turkey 591 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: Turkey got it? That's definitely a strickling kind of vibe. 592 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: Who else, Let's see we've also got Christopher Haciotis Jeff 593 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 1: Eve's Jeff Coat. And also big thanks to our dear 594 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: friend Casey pegram a big thanks to everybody for tuning 595 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: into the show. If you want to drop us a 596 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: review on Apple somewhere, we would, We would greatly appreciate 597 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: that that does make a difference. But as as Noel said, 598 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: we are immensely thankful for all of our ridiculous historians 599 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: tuning in. And I want to thank this life size 600 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: plastic skeleton I live with now Scully um and thanks 601 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: for maybe that's such a HALLOWEENI episode two, guys so excited. 602 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: I was surprised we kept going dark with it, anything 603 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: to extend the greatest holiday of the year, though I 604 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: do I do like a good, a good, a good 605 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: turkey leg Let's see you next time, folks. Yeah for 606 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I heart 607 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 608 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: favorite shows.