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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Habit Territory Podcast. Hope, wherever you are

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Speaker 1: and wherever you are listening, you are ready for a

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Speaker 1: fresh full scoop of deja vu. That's right, not one,

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Speaker 1: but two episodes from one of your favorite podcast stuos

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Speaker 1: when it comes to cover the Braves. Here all the

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Speaker 1: Habit Territory Podcast by self Sean Covid along with Stephen Tolbert. Again,

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Speaker 1: you are not having a Groundhog Day experience. We are

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Speaker 1: back and better than ever with a second podcast episode

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Speaker 1: this time. In the first episode we talked about the

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Speaker 1: Braves re signing closer right so Iglesias. But in this

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Speaker 1: episode we're going to dice sec the other move that

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Speaker 1: the Braves made, the rumored potential move from earlier today,

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Speaker 1: the Braves trading for utility man Mauricio Duvon and Stephen

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Speaker 1: Hey always love when you break down anything. When it

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Speaker 1: comes to the Braves, There's many different things that this

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Speaker 1: acquisition can mean, but let's first start with the player

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Speaker 1: himself what his value is to this team. Because even

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Speaker 1: though I say utility man, even though I say a

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Speaker 1: name that probably Mady have attributed to the Bitch throughout

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Speaker 1: his career, this is someone that could be a very

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Speaker 1: valuable get for Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: What's up Buddy again for the second time tonight about

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Speaker 2: literally as we as we hit stop recording on the

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Speaker 2: Rossio Iglesias contract are the rossio Oglesias podcast, this news

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Speaker 2: broke and so we went into full like what the

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Speaker 2: hell are we supposed to do here? So we literally

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Speaker 2: stopped that podcast. Got you know, it's in the editing

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Speaker 2: and uploading process now and just one so it's gonna

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Speaker 2: be two emergencies shows tonight. But credit to Mark Bowman.

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Speaker 2: He talked about today that the Braves had inquired about

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Speaker 2: Mariso Dubon and this is a fascinating move and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna get into the reasons why, but so Debon is

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Speaker 2: just to get the particulars out the way. Debon is

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Speaker 2: a thirty one year old utility player that's played for

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Speaker 2: the Astros for the last six years something like that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't look and see how long he's been in

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Speaker 2: the majors, but he's been in the majors quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's not a young kid. He's not a

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Speaker 2: you know, a new player. The Braves did send away

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Speaker 2: Nick Allen. We're gonna give a shout out at a

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Speaker 2: send away to Nick Allen at some point in the

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Speaker 2: show that was the whole trade and Risio Debon for

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Speaker 2: Nick Allen that the Astros are trying to save some money.

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Speaker 2: Dubon is projected to make six million dollars in arbitration

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Speaker 2: next year, and this leads to some fascinating conversations about

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Speaker 2: what the Braves are planning at shortstop and what the

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Speaker 2: Braves are planning in the lineup. This is a major

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Speaker 2: utility piece. Dubon literally played all over the diamond last

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Speaker 2: year in a bunch of games. So we're gonna get

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Speaker 2: into it. We're gonna talk, We're gonna go in depth

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Speaker 2: and try to figure out what this means. But the

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Speaker 2: ripples effect, the ripple effects of this trade are fascinating

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Speaker 2: to me. And you know, we learned about it three

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Speaker 2: minutes ago, so I'm kind of thinking through it all

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Speaker 2: as we probably as we talk here. But it's a

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Speaker 2: fascinating little trade.

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Speaker 1: And Dubon himself is a very unique talent because what

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Speaker 1: he does he's very very good at. It's just that

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Speaker 1: there may not be many people who put a lot

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Speaker 1: of value on it. And what Dubon does is that

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Speaker 1: he legitimately is one of the most utilized utility men

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Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball. But not only that. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: for you to be able to play multiple positions, and

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about four to five positions double digit games

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Speaker 1: year in and year out, like Debond does, you have

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Speaker 1: to be able to play them at least at a

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Speaker 1: passable level. Defensively, the calling card from Mauricio Debon is

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Speaker 1: that he plays nearly every position that he does, which

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Speaker 1: is every outfield position and every infield position besides first base.

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Speaker 1: He plays them at an above average to elite defensive level.

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Speaker 1: He's a two time Gold Glove winner when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the utility man role for defense in his career.

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Speaker 1: So we're not just talking about a guy who is

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Speaker 1: capable of playing nearly every position on the diamond. He's

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Speaker 1: capable of playing at an elite defensive level. That carries

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Speaker 1: plenty of value, and it especially comes into play for

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Speaker 1: the Braves for two reasons. Number one, when again, like

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Speaker 1: we discussed, you know, a few weeks ago, when we

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Speaker 1: did our episode on how how important it was for

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Speaker 1: the Brace to potentially get a utility guy, the Braves

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Speaker 1: have had nearly every one of their position player starters

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Speaker 1: missed a significant chunk of time over the past two years.

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Speaker 1: That's one. The second thing is that we talked about

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Speaker 1: is how you can't have league worst offensive production up

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Speaker 1: the middle, in centerfield, shortstop, in second base. Through the

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Speaker 1: first half of the season, Dubon is shown an offensive

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Speaker 1: floor of being slightly above or slightly below league average,

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Speaker 1: which is much better than the league worst average. But again,

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Speaker 1: he plays elite defense all across the diamond. That to

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Speaker 1: a team like the Braves who has suffered through injuries

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Speaker 1: and has suffered through some bad, bad streaks off from

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Speaker 1: multiple position players, that's where the value of adding a

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Speaker 1: player like Dubon comes in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm gonna read off what the positions he played.

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Speaker 2: Just this is just last year with the Astros. So

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Speaker 2: he played forty eight games in left field, played forty

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Speaker 2: six games at second pace, He played thirty three games

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Speaker 2: at shortstop, He played twenty four games at third base,

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Speaker 2: He played seventeen games in center field, he played four

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Speaker 2: games at first base, and he played three games in

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Speaker 2: right So that's literally all of them except catcher. He

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Speaker 2: played all the positions at shortstops specifically, even though he

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Speaker 2: only played thirty three games he was a plus eight

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Speaker 2: outs above average for in terms of Baseball savants, you know, metric.

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Speaker 2: So that is incredibly valuable. And like you just said,

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Speaker 2: the Braves have dealt with position player injuries for years.

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Speaker 2: They need somebody who can play all over the diamond.

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Speaker 2: His bat is listen, his bat is not good. He's

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Speaker 2: got a career eighty five WRC plus, which is very

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Speaker 2: clearly below average. But I do want to point out

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Speaker 2: that there are levels to being a bad hitter, and

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Speaker 2: Nick Allen was the lowest level of bat Like basically

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Speaker 2: a pitcher was what Nick Allen. Nick Allen was like

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Speaker 2: a fifty I think Gallen's career WFC plus was like

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Speaker 2: in the fifties, fifty four or something like that. Dubon's

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Speaker 2: is like eighty five. So even though Debon is a

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Speaker 2: light hitter, he is a substantially better hitter than Nick Gallen.

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Speaker 2: And that matters because it is technically an upgrade.

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Speaker 1: Where it gets.

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Speaker 2: Fascinating is this, and you brought it up. Dubon is

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Speaker 2: said to make six million dollars in arbitration. Assuming the

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Speaker 2: Braves get to arbitration with Dubon, they could sign him

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Speaker 2: to a contract and negate arbitration and change the AAV

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Speaker 2: and maybe that's the way they go. That's probably what

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Speaker 2: I would do, So I don't have six million dollars

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Speaker 2: sit on the bench if that's what they're gonna do.

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Speaker 2: But right now he's projected to make six million dollars

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Speaker 2: in arbitration. I think five point eight is the actual number.

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Speaker 2: So here's the question we have to ask, are they

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Speaker 2: planning on Dubon being the starting shortstop, because again, six

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Speaker 2: million dollars is a lot of money to just sit

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Speaker 2: on the bench. Most bench players don't make that much money,

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Speaker 2: especially on a team like the Braves that don't have

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Speaker 2: like a Dodger's level budget. Or are they going to

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Speaker 2: allow him to be the utility player that plays all

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Speaker 2: over the diamond anytime somebody's hurt, anytime somebody needs today.

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Speaker 2: There's tremendous value in that. We know that, and still

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Speaker 2: go get a shortstop because if they're gonna do if

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Speaker 2: he's gonna be the shortstop, and and Scott's been talking

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Speaker 2: about this in our in our DMS, and he's one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent right, if he's gonna play shortstop, the Braves

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Speaker 2: have to go get a big bat somewhere they have to,

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Speaker 2: because Dubon is not a good enough hitter to be

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Speaker 2: the only offensive upgrades you make to the lineup. So

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Speaker 2: if you're gonna, if you're gonna do this as your shortstop,

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Speaker 2: what he can do defensively, and he's an offensive upgrade

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Speaker 2: over Nick Allen, you have to go add a legitimate

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Speaker 2: bad at DH. You just have to. Not knowing what

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Speaker 2: you're gonna get from Sean Murphy, Dubon is not good

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Speaker 2: enough on the offensive side of the ball to be

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Speaker 2: the the only offensive upgrade for the offseason. If you're

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Speaker 2: not gonna do that, if you're still gonna, go get

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Speaker 2: a shortstop. What this tells me is the Brave have

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Speaker 2: a decent chunk of change to spend this offseason if

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Speaker 2: they're comfortable having a six million dollar guy on the

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Speaker 2: bench as with no clear starting role. Like if their

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Speaker 2: Braves go get another shortstop to start, the bond does

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Speaker 2: not have a place to start on the team all

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Speaker 2: all of the positions are filled by full time players.

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Speaker 2: So if you're gonna if they're gonna still go get

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Speaker 2: a starting level shortstop and have Dubon on the bench,

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Speaker 2: this tells me the Braves have quite a bit of

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Speaker 2: money to spend, because that's the only reason you would

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Speaker 2: trade for a six million dollar utility piece, because you're

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Speaker 2: not sill, especially when you still got to go get

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Speaker 2: a starting pitcher and a shortstop. So that's the question.

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Speaker 2: What what what role did they just acquire Dubon for?

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Speaker 2: That's what I want. I'm kind of keeping an eye

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Speaker 2: on Twitter to see if any of the Beat writers,

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Speaker 2: anybody sends out any clarification is he being acquired? They

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Speaker 2: mentioned when they did the blue box in the in

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Speaker 2: the in the tweet they did heavily mentioned his utility ability,

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Speaker 2: which tells me he could be utility. It's just a

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Speaker 2: lot of money to pay for a utility piece. So

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Speaker 2: that's what I want to know. What did they just

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Speaker 2: acquired him for? Because that changes how I view this

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Speaker 2: trade and what I think is going what this trade

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Speaker 2: means for the rest of the off season. So that's

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Speaker 2: the question. We need to We need it, we need

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Speaker 2: it answered. What What is Mauricio Dubon? What was he

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Speaker 2: just traded to do? Is he the starting shortstop or

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Speaker 2: is he the number one utility player on the Bitch.

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Speaker 1: So, Stephen, you asked the question. You pondered the question,

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Speaker 1: what is Mauricio Dubond on this Braves team? What role

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Speaker 1: is he going to play? And I think that the

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Speaker 1: best answer that I can give to that, just from

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Speaker 1: my perspective is it's not defined yet and that's okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good position for the Braves to be. What

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Speaker 1: I think the Braves took it advantage of doing is

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Speaker 1: from the Astros perspective, they made this move for a

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Speaker 1: player that was going to be due six million dollars

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Speaker 1: and they potentially were going to not tender a contract

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Speaker 1: on Friday. They instead went ahead and traded him and

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Speaker 1: got savings in Nick Allen, who they may still non tender,

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Speaker 1: but at the very least they got a backup infielder

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Speaker 1: with elite defense at a much cheaper cost for the Braves.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that his ultimate role in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six is not defined yet, but they're okay with that

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Speaker 1: because they've at least raised the floor in multiple ways

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Speaker 1: when it comes to their depth of position players. And

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Speaker 1: we talked about how important that was. We talked about

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Speaker 1: because of the injuries. We talked about how because of

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Speaker 1: the streakiness of some of the position players. We talked

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Speaker 1: about how much of a liability offensively the shortstop role was.

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Speaker 1: If the Braves could find a reliable utility player in

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Speaker 1: a singular source that helps answer so many those questions,

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Speaker 1: And they've got that singular source now. Because for the Braves,

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Speaker 1: I agree Mauricio Debond being the starting shortstop is probably

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Speaker 1: a little less ideal than him being a clear utility guy.

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Speaker 1: But the point that I want to bring up is this,

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Speaker 1: say that he is the main shortstop. You've got a

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Speaker 1: guy who still is able to play Gold Glove level defense,

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Speaker 1: which we know Alexanthopolis puts a lot of value on.

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Speaker 1: But you also have a guy who over the past

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Speaker 1: three years has had a ninety seven, eighty six and

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Speaker 1: eighty WRC plus overall with runners on base, He's had

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Speaker 1: one hundred and five, one hundred and five and eighty

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Speaker 1: WRC plus over the past three seasons. Overall, over the

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Speaker 1: past two years, the Braves shortstop position has had a

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Speaker 1: sixty five WRC plus overall. I've mentioned it before many

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Speaker 1: after going through the past years of having near league

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Speaker 1: worst offensive production from the shortstop position. So many people

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Speaker 1: want a difference maker offensively at the shortstop position. That

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Speaker 1: is just so hard to find. But for a team

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Speaker 1: like the Braves, it is a significant upgrade if you

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Speaker 1: can keep good defense at the position but have slightly

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Speaker 1: below average to league average offensive production at the position.

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Speaker 1: And that's what Dubad offers, and he's consistently offered that

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Speaker 1: he's not Hasan Kim, and Hassan Kim still could be

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Speaker 1: in the Braves plans, but in terms of where they

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Speaker 1: were before this trade versus where they are now, I

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Speaker 1: think it raises the floor and they can pivot multiple ways,

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Speaker 1: but they're in a better position to pivot based off

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Speaker 1: what comes available to him this offseason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's so fascinating, like because it does give

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Speaker 2: you leverage, right because now you do have a guy

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Speaker 2: who you can when this trade face say, I could

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Speaker 2: start where you Sue Debon at shortstop and just go

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Speaker 2: get a big bat somewhere else. So like if you're

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Speaker 2: talking to Scott Boris about Hassan Kim, you know, if

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Speaker 2: you have Nick Allen sitting there and everyone knows you

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Speaker 2: don't want to play Nick Allen for one hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty two games. You know, it's harder to make that

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Speaker 2: argument with a straight face. Now you can say, listen,

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Speaker 2: I got a guy who's a damn good defender. Marsio

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Speaker 2: Deban is a fantastic glove at short stuff, and that

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Speaker 2: is what Alex has talked about for years, is the

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Speaker 2: most important part of playing short stuff. On top of

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Speaker 2: the fact that he's just an insane utility player. But

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Speaker 2: you know, he's a great defender, and he does have

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Speaker 2: more offensive upside than Nick Allen, just because Nick Allen

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Speaker 2: is is I mean, all due respect to Nick Allen,

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Speaker 2: he was a great defender. Nick Allens is like a pitcher.

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Speaker 2: He's like it was the worst offensive player in baseball.

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Speaker 2: He's I mean, he just had zero offensive upside. Debon

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Speaker 2: put up like a ninety seven WRC plus a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago. You know, he put an eighty five

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Speaker 2: last year or two years ago, so he does have

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Speaker 2: like offensive capability. Even like with an eighty WRC plus

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Speaker 2: last year, he was like a two win player. So

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Speaker 2: you can make the argument he can be the starting

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Speaker 2: short stop. You just have to go get a big

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Speaker 2: bat somewhere else. You have to You cannot run this

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Speaker 2: lineup out there with all the struggles they've had the

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Speaker 2: last two years and have Mauricio Dubon be the biggest hitter.

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Speaker 2: You add, you cannot do that, and so like that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying. The ripple effects are fascinating. If, however,

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Speaker 2: he is just going to be the utility guy, this

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Speaker 2: is a home run move. Like if they're going to

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Speaker 2: still go get a shortstop and a starting pitcher and

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Speaker 2: maybe a DH And this is just like we were

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Speaker 2: taking advantage of the fact that the Astros needed to

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Speaker 2: clear some money because Marcia Debann is a better player

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Speaker 2: than Nick Allen. Like, this is not a fair trade.

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Speaker 2: This is not an even trade from player to player. Now,

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Speaker 2: Nariso Debon is a is a rental. He's only got

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Speaker 2: team control for one more year, his last year of arbitration.

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Speaker 2: And again, I would not be stunned if we found

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Speaker 2: out in a couple of days the Braves signed him

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Speaker 2: to like a two year deal, maybe like a two

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Speaker 2: year year, eight million dollar deal where it lowers the

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Speaker 2: AAV so you don't have a six million dollar guy

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Speaker 2: sitting on the bench. That one't stun me at all.

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Speaker 2: But I want to know what his role is designed

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Speaker 2: to be. And like you said, he like Alex may

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Speaker 2: not know. Alex might just be saying, hey, now we

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Speaker 2: have we have a backstop. We have an you know,

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Speaker 2: we have a shortstop in case we can't get something

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Speaker 2: done with hass On Kim. We have somebody that's better

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Speaker 2: than Nick Allen. That is an upgrade that you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a decent plan B. And

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Speaker 2: maybe that's why Alex did. It's like he's you know,

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Speaker 2: it helps me negotiate from a stronger, you know, a

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Speaker 2: stronger place. It's just got so many ripples. It's just

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Speaker 2: if they want him to be the starting shortstop. And

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Speaker 2: I don't know that they could still be talking with

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Speaker 2: hass On Kim right now. But if they want him

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Speaker 2: to be the starting shortstop, they gotta go get a

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Speaker 2: big bat. That is, if you take nothing else from

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Speaker 2: the show. If he's the guy, then all right, go

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Speaker 2: get me a real DH, like a real bopper at

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Speaker 2: DH or another a good Outfit or a Byron Buxton.

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Speaker 2: Go give me somebody that's an impact bat somewhere on

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Speaker 2: this roster. Because the bond cannot be that he will

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Speaker 2: not be that he's a great defender. He's a great

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Speaker 2: utility piece. He's one of the best utility players in baseball,

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Speaker 2: and if that's what they got him for, then that's awesome.

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Speaker 2: If they got him to be in the starting lineup

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Speaker 2: every day, they need to go get a real beat.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that tying in these two moves together,

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Speaker 1: the resigning Rice e Iglesias as well as getting Marisio

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Speaker 1: devond today, the real value that comes from this, I

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Speaker 1: think is that, don't get me wrong, it certainly should

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Speaker 1: be considered a necessity for the Braves to upgrade the rotation,

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Speaker 1: for the Braves to get better in terms of the offense,

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Speaker 1: for the Braves to add multiple pieces to their bullpen.

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Speaker 1: Those are you can consider necessities. But today the Braves

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Speaker 1: went out and check the boxes on the absolute must

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Speaker 1: haves for this offseason. They got themselves a closer and

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Speaker 1: a reliable one in Rice cell Iglesias, and they also

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Speaker 1: at the very least did get a better option at

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Speaker 1: shortstop than what they had in house. And if that

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Speaker 1: if Dubon instead of being that can instead be a

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Speaker 1: utility guy, then they did even better because now they've

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Speaker 1: gotten a singular source, really good insurance for when that

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Speaker 1: injury bug bites again, or someone needs an off day.

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Speaker 1: So that's one thing that I will say, just because

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Speaker 1: it may feel as if there's more uncertainty or that

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Speaker 1: the ultimate value of this move is going to be

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Speaker 1: more based on what happens in the future, I think

355
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Speaker 1: in a vacuum, it definitely needs to be said. The

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Speaker 1: Braves took care of multiple absolute must have moves today,

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Speaker 1: and I applaud Alex for doing that. You've got your

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Speaker 1: reliable closer, You've got a better option at least to

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Speaker 1: be your main shortstop at that how the offseason winds

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Speaker 1: up playing out, and if not that, you've got one

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Speaker 1: of the best utility man in baseball. And we have

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Speaker 1: been talking all off season up to this point. How

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Speaker 1: that was multiple must haves for this Braves team to

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Speaker 1: get this offseason.

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Speaker 2: If Dubon was acquired to be the number one bench

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Speaker 2: guy and be the mystery utility all over the field,

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Speaker 2: this is an A plus plus trade, A plus. No brain,

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Speaker 2: Dubon is better than Nick Allen. Like, just off that alone,

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Speaker 2: it's a great trade. I understand there's different years of

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Speaker 2: service time, but like, Debon is just better than Nick Allen.

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Speaker 2: If that's what he was acquired for. I love it.

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Speaker 2: If he was acquired to be the starting shortstop, I

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Speaker 2: don't love it. I may love it. Well, no, I'm

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Speaker 2: never gonna love it. I may like it depending on

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Speaker 2: what else they do with DH. If he was acquired

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Speaker 2: to be the starting shortstop, I have a lot more questions.

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Speaker 2: We just don't know that yet, and like you said,

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Speaker 2: Alex may not know that yet. I'm very curious to

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Speaker 2: hear when Alex talks. You know, obviously they just signed Iglesias.

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Speaker 2: I think Alex is probably gonna have to speak to

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Speaker 2: the media in the next couple of days just because

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Speaker 2: of the Iglesias signing. This trade will obviously come up.

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Speaker 2: I'm very curious to hear what he says, like, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you know, this doesn't change our short stop plans at all.

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Speaker 2: We're still very much in that market. Or no, this

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Speaker 2: is the guy we wanted all along. Depending on how

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Speaker 2: he answers and he may give an un answer, we

388
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Speaker 2: might not get any certainty there. But again, how I

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Speaker 2: feel about this is very much tied to the role

390
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Speaker 2: Dubon is expected to play. And if it's a utility role,

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Speaker 2: this is a home run. And if it's a starting shortstop,

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Speaker 2: I'm much less high on it, and I need to

393
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Speaker 2: see what else they do, specifically to the lineup, where

394
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: we've already had questions the last two years. You've got

395
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Speaker 2: Riley coming back from injury. You have no idea what

396
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: you're gonna get from Michael Harris, you have no idea

397
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Speaker 2: what you're gonna get from Azzie Alb's like, you just

398
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: have these big questions. You've potentially lost Marcelo Zuna. You know,

399
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Speaker 2: the lineup has questions, and part of getting a better

400
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Speaker 2: short was helping answer some of those lineup questions, not

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Speaker 2: just the defense, but the lineup. So if Dubon is

402
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Speaker 2: your starting shortstop, we still have a lot of lineup

403
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Speaker 2: questions that we need answered. So we'll know in the

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Speaker 2: next couple of days, probably when Alex talks what this,

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Speaker 2: what his role is supposed to be, and that clarity

406
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Speaker 2: will help guide how I kind of feel about this

407
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Speaker 2: at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Correct. And the other thing is is that you could see,

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Speaker 1: you know, a bit of offensive upside with with the

410
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Speaker 1: Mauricio Dubaud as well. The Braves have been able to

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Speaker 1: find that with guys, you know, not necessarily like Dubond,

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Speaker 1: but again, they've had a track record of being able

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Speaker 1: to help guys improve their offensive production they added previous stops.

414
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Speaker 1: I don't think that there's a ton of offensive upside

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Speaker 1: with Dubad. But again, if you could get a guy

416
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Speaker 1: at shortstop who could play Gold Globe level defense like

417
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: we know dubond can and give you around a seven

418
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Speaker 1: hundred w or a seven hundred oh ps or better

419
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Speaker 1: at eighty five WRC plus or better, that's a really

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Speaker 1: valuable get for a team that has just absolutely had

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Speaker 1: shortstop as a liability. But I agree with you. I

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Speaker 1: do agree with you. If this is the only move

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Speaker 1: that you make to the lineup this offseason, it certainly

424
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Speaker 1: is underwhelming. But if this is the first move where

425
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Speaker 1: you're just basically raising your floor in terms of your

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Speaker 1: first bitch option and you've still got plans to go

427
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Speaker 1: get a clear upgrade that this is a great move.

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Speaker 1: Will have to wait for the rest of the off

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00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: season to determine that. But I do think that it

430
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Speaker 1: puts the Braves in a better position to pivot however

431
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 1: they want to, because they do have a guy who

432
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: could play multiple roles, and not only that excel in

433
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: that role moving forward.

434
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's it just comes down to that,

435
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: what what was the point of this What exactly is

436
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: the point of this move? Is he a utility guy

437
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: or is the the starting short stop? And that answer

438
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: changes how I feel. And I've been tracking Twitter the

439
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: whole time just to make sure a we get hit

440
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: with another transaction tonight, and b to see if anybody

441
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 2: on the Brave side was tweeting anything out. A lot

442
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: of times after a trade, Alex will send out like

443
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: the group text messages to all the Beat writers to

444
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: explain some of the rationale. I was seeing if any

445
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: of that was out there. As as of the end

446
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: of this recording, we still don't have a clear answer

447
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: of what this trade means. And like you said, Alex

448
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: may not know. He might not have that answer yet.

449
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: He might just you know, this is a backup plan

450
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: and this is our This is securing the backup plan

451
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: before you secure the primary plan. And if that's the case,

452
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: then all right, we'll wait and see what happens. And

453
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: so that's kind of how we're gonna sign off tonight.

454
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,479
Speaker 2: Is my how I feel about this trade will very

455
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: much depend on what else happens and where debon ends.

456
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: Up playing what his role ends up being, and if

457
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: it's the starting shortstop, I need a real DH. I

458
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: have to have a real We have to have a

459
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: real DH because there's nowhere else to put a big

460
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: bat and the Braves need another bat. So you know,

461
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: it's pretty cut and dry. If he is the utility guy,

462
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: this is a fantastic trick, fantastic trait. I love it,

463
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: love it, love it. I would sign him. I try

464
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: to sign him to a multi year deal if I could,

465
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: to be in that role. He is one of the

466
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: best utility players in all of baseball, and he's a

467
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 2: true utility. He can play every spot on the diamond

468
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: that's not catcher, and he could probably play catcher if

469
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: he had to, Quite honest like, he is a fantastic

470
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: piece to have on a bench. So we'll just have

471
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: to wait and see.

472
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: But I want to end on this again kind of

473
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: putting together both podcasts that we've done tonight for the

474
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: multiple moves the Braves have made. It's November, what nineteenth,

475
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the Braves making multiple boots where

476
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: they're clearly added payroll and they're clearly getting talent that's

477
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: going to make the better for next year. That is

478
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: a significantly better start and more ideals start to this

479
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: offseason compared to last. Again, I know that it remains

480
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: to be seen what happens for the rest of this

481
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: off season, but I don't think that that should go

482
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: without being stated. What we were hoping to see the

483
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: Braves do. We've now got valid indications they're looking to do.

484
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: They're looking to spend money, they're looking to improve the team,

485
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: and they're looking to address clear needs that have been

486
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: there for multiple years. And that is a really good

487
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: way to start this off season. Now you've got your closer,

488
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: you've got your utility man, which we talked about via

489
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: a underrated need. If that guy's your shortstop, that's fine,

490
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: go out make your other big move to make it

491
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: okay for him to be your shortstop. But at the

492
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: very least, the Braves have got a couple other more

493
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: significant needs taken care of to where they can fully

494
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: focus on the areas starting pitching and adding that other

495
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: bat that could really be the difference making moves this

496
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: off season.

497
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to put it into a context between last

498
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: off season and last trade deadline, so basically the last

499
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 2: twelve months we did one emergency podcast that wasn't injury related.

500
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 2: That was you know, the Braves made a move related

501
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: and that was the signing of Jerks and Profar. That

502
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 2: was it.

503
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: That's all.

504
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: This is the only emergency podcast we did last offseason,

505
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: and we didn't do any of the trade deadline because

506
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: the Braves didn't do anything in the trade deadline. Tonight,

507
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 2: we've done two emergency so we've done more emergency podcast

508
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: tonight than we have in the last twelve months combined.

509
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: So to your point, it is a much better start.

510
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: The Braves are clearly going to be active. We just

511
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: need a little bit more clarity on what this trade

512
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: means before we can really give like Okay, I love this,

513
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: I hate this. I need to see more and we'll

514
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 2: get that. We'll probably get that the next couple of days.

515
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: I really do think alex Is gonna have to talk

516
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: to the media at some point here with two big

517
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 2: moves happening on the same day, obviously Thanksgiving is coming up,

518
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: we are going to do a show on Friday because

519
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: it's the non tender deadline, which now, by the way,

520
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: includes Mauricio Dubon. Need to add that little nugget in

521
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: the Braves. You know, their list of arbitration eligible guys

522
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: just got increased or none didn't increase by one because

523
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: Nick Allen was already in the list, So you gotta

524
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: subtract Nick Allen, and then you got to add Mariso

525
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: Debon at a much higher number because Debon is in

526
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: his last year of arbitration. It's gonna be close to

527
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: six million. He's gonna he's by far away their highest

528
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 2: ARC guy. So you know, Friday's deadline just became a

529
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: lot more interesting because already gonna see a multi year

530
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: contract you know, to be a utility guy. You know,

531
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: that could answer some of our questions. Yeah, it's just

532
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: a fascinating move and I'm very curious to see the

533
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: next like twenty four hours, what what news or what

534
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: you know ideas come out out of the Braves front

535
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: office about what this means. And I think that will

536
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: help guide the guide our opinion a little bit.

537
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we all wanted a busy off season. It seems

538
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: like we're starting off a beneficial one as well. Again,

539
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: especially with the Dubon move. The value of that will

540
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: ultimately depend on what else the Braves do. But again,

541
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: the very least because the Braves have gotten some needs

542
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: taking care of. They now know how much money they

543
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: had to attribute to getting those needs taken care of.

544
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: You've got more certainty on what avenues they can take

545
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: to really get the difference makers for the rotation and

546
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: the lineup that we hope they'll get this offseason. So again,

547
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: that's part of the benefit that comes from these moves. Stephen,

548
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: anything else from you, I know that we've had plenty

549
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: to discuss tonight. Again. Welcome back to Atlanta, or iceell Iglesias,

550
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: Welcome to Atlanta. Mauricio Debon. I think at the end

551
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 1: of the day, go ahead.

552
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: Sorry, just checking Twitter as we're doing this. Alexandoplis is

553
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: currently talking to the media. All right, here's what he said.

554
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: Alex and Thoplos says infilm Risso Debond's role will be

555
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: determined by how the rest of the all season develops.

556
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: He says, they can do everything except catch We made

557
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: the same joke, and he might even be able to

558
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: do that. He even made our joke. Versatility is very important.

559
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: He says. He feels comfortable with them at shortstop, but

560
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: expects him to be more of a Swiss army knife.

561
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, all right, so basically what we just said,

562
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: Alex isn't really even quite sure what the role is.

563
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: So that's where we're gonna leave it is. If he's

564
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: the starting shortstop, then I have questions about the lineup

565
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: and we need to add a bat. If he's the utility,

566
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: if he's just a Swiss army knife, you know, old

567
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: school just can play everywhere a utility player. I love

568
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: this move, and I don't think Alex knows either yet,

569
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: so we'll see.

570
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: And that's fine. That's why you make these moves early

571
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: in the off season. That's why Alex Adopolis usually is

572
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: so active in the off season. He gets his absolute

573
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: needs taken care of. It did for the other moves

574
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: that could pivot a variety of different ways. He at

575
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: least has got sub moves done that makes the tea better,

576
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: so he could pivot in the way that he needs

577
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: to to really make the move to make the team better.

578
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I've reading from these moves and

579
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: from his comments. Steven, anything else from you as we

580
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: wrap up this edition to the Hamber Territory Podcast.

581
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: No, that's it. I mean again, it's good to see activity. Yes,

582
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: right after last off season of literally one move happening

583
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: all off season, and then the trade deadline where nothing happened.

584
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: It's good to see activity, it's good to see moves.

585
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: They're clearly addressing stuff. The devil's going to be in

586
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: the details of exactly what else they do. I still

587
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: think they need a real short stop. I don't think

588
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 2: Dupon is a large enough upgrade at shortstop to say

589
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: that this is what I want to happen. And if

590
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: they don't know greater at short stop, then they have

591
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: to get a DH It's just no, there's no two

592
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: ways about it. And they still need starting pitching and

593
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: they still need more bullpen help. This should be just

594
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: two of several emergency podcasts we do over the next

595
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: few weeks months until we get to spring training. So

596
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: not already subscribed. Make sure you're subscribed the moment the

597
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: stuff drops, we are, you know, coordinating and trying to

598
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: get a show out, you know immediately. Obviously tonight we

599
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: did two, So make you make sure you're subscribed. And yeah,

600
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: it should be a very entertaining and interesting offseason.

601
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: And we're gonna be right back with you in forty

602
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: eight hours. The Braves deadline when it comes to who

603
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: they are potentially tendering contracts too. Could there be another

604
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: trade that happens when it comes to Alex and Thopolis

605
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: trading the way guys he may not necessarily want a

606
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: tender contracts too. Could the Braves make a move for

607
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: another move where another team that want to pay a

608
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: guy and they bring him in. Could we see multi

609
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: your contracts with a guy like Mauricio Debond. There's a

610
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: lot of different moves to make at so many different levels,

611
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: and that's what makes the off season exciting. But at

612
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: the very least, we have proof that the Braves are

613
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: likely going to be active throughout the rest of the

614
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: off season. For Steven Toler, you can find him at

615
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: be Underscore Outliers on Twitter slash acts. My name is

616
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: Sean Coleman. You can find me at Stat's sec on

617
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: Twitter slash x. There is as much of a chance

618
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: that will be with you in thirty minutes as there

619
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: is gonna be Friday night. But regardless of what it happens,

620
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna be here for you to cover everything that

621
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: comes to the Atlanta Braves. Until next time, Go Braves.

622
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you again soon. Here on the Hammer

623
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: Territory podcast,