WEBVTT - Where Is The Money Going? Lanhee Chen Talks to A&G

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<v Speaker 1>What a pleasure it is to talk to ln Hey Chenny.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a candidate for California State Controller. Fellow with the

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<v Speaker 1>Hoover Institution, Director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University.

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<v Speaker 1>Is a day job. Lon. He welcome, How are you happy? Friday?

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<v Speaker 1>Gonna be with you both. Yeah, we don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>spend our valuable time with you on just this topic, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>and there'll be plenty of time to discuss it. But

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<v Speaker 1>first thoughts. When you hear that Trump is running, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it should be surprising. I think it's something

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<v Speaker 1>he's talked about doing. The two thousand campaign is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be very interesting because fundamentally, it's going to be,

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<v Speaker 1>in my mind, a question of do you want, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, two politicians of the past, right, you have

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<v Speaker 1>people who are in their seventies, I think late seventies,

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<v Speaker 1>or do you want, you know, a fresh vision? And

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<v Speaker 1>I think both parties are going to have to struggle

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<v Speaker 1>with that question because you know, it's very hard if

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<v Speaker 1>if President Biden decides to run for reelection, which who

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<v Speaker 1>knows if he does or not, that's gonna be sort

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<v Speaker 1>of very difficult for people in his party. Then to

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<v Speaker 1>turn around and say, well, we want to go with

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<v Speaker 1>someone else. It's very hard to turn out an income

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<v Speaker 1>in president in that way. Uh. And then on the

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<v Speaker 1>flip side, Republicans have to ask a question do they

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<v Speaker 1>want to pass or do they want something new? So

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be a fascinating contest. Both sides are

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<v Speaker 1>going to have to deal with those generational questions as

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<v Speaker 1>well as questions of whether the politics of the past

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<v Speaker 1>or the politics of the future, or what they want.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, we uh, as Jack said, had plenty of

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<v Speaker 1>time to talk about that in the days and weeks

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<v Speaker 1>to come. God help us. Um I happen to come

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<v Speaker 1>across a couple of articles today, Lani that that dealt

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<v Speaker 1>with California, But these are universal questions. They have to

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<v Speaker 1>do with programs, in this case dealing with homelessness in

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<v Speaker 1>which there are various auditors, like in Oakland or in

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<v Speaker 1>the state saying, hey, we spent a tremendous amount of

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<v Speaker 1>money on this program, and the percentage of people that

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<v Speaker 1>actually helped is very, very low. And this is I

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<v Speaker 1>think this is a huge topic that doesn't get discussed

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<v Speaker 1>nearly enough. How does accountability for money spent work in government?

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<v Speaker 1>And how should it work. Well, that's a great question

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<v Speaker 1>right now. I don't know that it does quite honestly.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the problem you have is that you've got

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<v Speaker 1>certain people who occasionally decide that they want to demonstrate

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<v Speaker 1>accountability when an election comes near, and so they go

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<v Speaker 1>and they you know, maybe run an auditor. They answer

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<v Speaker 1>a few questions, and they try and make it seem

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<v Speaker 1>as though they are being responsive to taxpayers. There doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>tend to be a unified function in many places. Now California,

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<v Speaker 1>which is an obviously state where I am and where

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<v Speaker 1>I'm running for state controller. That is the job of

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<v Speaker 1>the state controller. The state controller is supposed to be

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<v Speaker 1>the head audit official for the state, and it's supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to consolidate and and really give to taxpayers consolidated as

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<v Speaker 1>well as unified information on how state spending is being

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<v Speaker 1>applied to address these various challenges. Homelessness is a great example.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we really struggle with that in California. We've

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<v Speaker 1>seen the problem get a lot worse over the last

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<v Speaker 1>couple of years, and it's certainly not for a lack

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<v Speaker 1>of spending. We've spent you know, somewhere between ten and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty billion dollars over the last couple of years on homelessness,

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<v Speaker 1>only to see that problem get worse. Now, occasionally we

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<v Speaker 1>get a glimpse at how bad this spending is, because

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<v Speaker 1>the City of Los Angeles will produce a report, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>that shows that a cost of construction per unit of

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<v Speaker 1>housing per homeless individual is eight thousand dollars, and everybody says,

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<v Speaker 1>holy crap, how is that possible? Yeah, that's shocking, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And then you'll hear the city of Oakland say something,

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<v Speaker 1>in the city of San Francisco say something. And really,

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<v Speaker 1>that responsibility needs to fall to a single official or

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<v Speaker 1>at least you know, one or two officials in the

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<v Speaker 1>state to be identifying where the money is going, but

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<v Speaker 1>more importantly, to be talking about the efficacy or lack

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<v Speaker 1>there over that spending. So accountability is not just a

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<v Speaker 1>buzz word. It shouldn't just be a buzzword. People need

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<v Speaker 1>to live that out on a daily basis. Given how

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<v Speaker 1>much money in taxes we spend in many of our states,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as at the federal level. Well, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>astounding and horrifying that while business and every responsible family

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<v Speaker 1>spends a lot of time virtually every day thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>all right, what are we spending money on and what

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<v Speaker 1>are we getting for it? The fact that government seems

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<v Speaker 1>to be excused completely from asking those questions. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>if you could, somehow, as an expert in public policy,

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<v Speaker 1>whether in California or the United States, get that idea

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<v Speaker 1>to take hold, I mean, my god, I'd be in

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<v Speaker 1>favor of a Nobel prize for you in an Olympic

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<v Speaker 1>gold medal, and maybe former religion around your grammy grammy certainly,

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<v Speaker 1>because the fact that that's missing from public conversation is shocking. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and uh, it is thrown around as a buzzword, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's never really any activity taken to move

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<v Speaker 1>the ball forward in terms of how do we actually

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<v Speaker 1>advance that kind of accountability. I mean, you know, many

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<v Speaker 1>states have this this idea of you know, you can

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<v Speaker 1>go online and you can see the states checkbook, for example.

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<v Speaker 1>I was talking to a couple of state auditors the

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<v Speaker 1>other day about the best practices that they apply in

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<v Speaker 1>their states, and they say, listen, you know, we want

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<v Speaker 1>to be as transparent as possible. Obviously, not all states

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<v Speaker 1>do this. California doesn't do this. Um, you can't go

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<v Speaker 1>online and see where you're mo is being spent, and

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<v Speaker 1>that would be like, you know, if the bank just

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<v Speaker 1>decided to wake up one day to bank wherever you bank,

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<v Speaker 1>and they said, you know, we're not We're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to show you your transactions. You just have to trust

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<v Speaker 1>that that it's being spent in the way you say

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<v Speaker 1>it's being spent. That's essentially what these states like California

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<v Speaker 1>are asking us to do. And I think at some

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<v Speaker 1>point people have it, you know, they just that taxpayers

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<v Speaker 1>say enough is enough, and they say, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>want accountability. I hope that that enough is enough comes

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<v Speaker 1>Tuesday when we have our election. But I also know

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<v Speaker 1>that this is a long term project. This is a

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<v Speaker 1>long term effort to try and bring accountability and responsibility

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<v Speaker 1>and fiscal thoughtfulness to what we're doing. Because we cannot

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<v Speaker 1>keep throwing good money after bad and not solving problems.

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<v Speaker 1>We just can't keep doing it. How do how do

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<v Speaker 1>you break out of the conundrum of if a government

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<v Speaker 1>program gets started and doesn't work, the answer always seems

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<v Speaker 1>to be to throw more money at it, which doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>happen in the private world obviously. Yeah, and it's this

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<v Speaker 1>is always this is something that I find managing is

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<v Speaker 1>when I hear, for example, the governor Gavin Newsom talk

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<v Speaker 1>about issues in California and he says, well, we're doing great,

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<v Speaker 1>We're spending more money, and it's like, no, no, no no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't understand. The measure of success is not whether

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<v Speaker 1>you spend more money. The measure of successes are you

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<v Speaker 1>solving the problem? If you think about this, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I've met with a bunch of small business owners over

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<v Speaker 1>the last several months and they all say the same thing,

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<v Speaker 1>which is, if we're going to invest a certain amount

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<v Speaker 1>of money in something, whether it's new, a new piece

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<v Speaker 1>of equipment, or a new employee or whatever it is,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna want to make sure we're investing in them

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<v Speaker 1>and seeing what our return on investment is training, new equipment, etcetera.

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<v Speaker 1>And and everybody does this, right, It's just a basic concept,

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<v Speaker 1>but in government, nobody ever stops to say, hey, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>we should be looking at what our return on invested

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<v Speaker 1>capital has been. Does it make sense for us to

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<v Speaker 1>keep spending on programs that are hugely inefficient and effective

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<v Speaker 1>that don't solve the problem. I think we would all

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<v Speaker 1>agree that if you had a program that was actually working,

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<v Speaker 1>sure spend money on it. Let's make sure we're doubling

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<v Speaker 1>down on things that work. But nobody ever stops and says, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>is this working or not? Right? And so I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to bring a different mindset, and I think there

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<v Speaker 1>are others around the country who want us as well. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>let's just bring a mindset to the job of is

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<v Speaker 1>this working or not? And if it's working, great, If

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<v Speaker 1>it's not, knock at all? Oh amen to that. Lanai

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<v Speaker 1>Chen with the Hoover Institution, Stanford University running for a

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<v Speaker 1>state controller in California. Hey, are you willing to say, Alani?

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<v Speaker 1>He uh, what states you think do well on these things?

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<v Speaker 1>Good transparency, good accountability? Yeah? You know several years ago

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<v Speaker 1>the state of Idaho. Excuse yeah, Idaho is one of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Was a mentioned Ohio first, but both Ohio and Idaho

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<v Speaker 1>are good examples. In Ohio many years ago, guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Josh Mandel, the former state treasurer who went on to

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<v Speaker 1>run for a couple of different offices. When he was treasurer,

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<v Speaker 1>he put in place a lot of accountability practices as

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<v Speaker 1>well as transparency portals and transparency kind of tools that

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<v Speaker 1>have been very, very helpful in maintaining accountability in that state.

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<v Speaker 1>Idaho is a much smaller state obviously, but they have

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<v Speaker 1>a similar mindset and have really applied technology well. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>I talked to a technology for it or a few

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<v Speaker 1>days ago who is working with the state of Idaho

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<v Speaker 1>and a few other states around the country. Smaller states

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<v Speaker 1>to be sure, but states around the country to bring

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<v Speaker 1>to bear kind of these best transparency practices. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>once a government expenditure happens, it gets posted within seventy

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<v Speaker 1>two hours. Great idea, Right, it's our money, and once

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<v Speaker 1>you spend it, let us know within seventy two hours,

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<v Speaker 1>and then that prevents the kinds of shenanigans that you

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<v Speaker 1>get where billions and billions of dollars go out the door,

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<v Speaker 1>like we had in California and unfortunately many other states

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<v Speaker 1>nationally a hundred and sixteen billion dollars in unemployment insurance

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<v Speaker 1>fraud during COVID, thirty billion of it in California. That

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have happened if we had a seventy two rule.

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<v Speaker 1>People would have seen, Hey, why is Scott Peterson getting

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<v Speaker 1>a check? Why is Diane Feinstein getting a check? This

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of weird, Like these are the sorts of

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<v Speaker 1>things basic. This is like, I'm not this is not

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<v Speaker 1>rocket science, right, this is not doesn't require a PhD

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<v Speaker 1>in molecular physics to figure out how to do this

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<v Speaker 1>very basic. Let's just get it done. And the reason

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<v Speaker 1>why these guys don't with the reason why these guys

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<v Speaker 1>and gals like to keep people in the dark is

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<v Speaker 1>because they thrive off of being the ones to hold

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<v Speaker 1>the information so that they can say no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we need to spend more money because I have the

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<v Speaker 1>information and you don't. And you know that's just not

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<v Speaker 1>the way that should work. Are you buying a powerball ticket?

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<v Speaker 1>I actually have bought a couple of powerball tickets over

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<v Speaker 1>the last couple of months, but to no one's surprised,

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<v Speaker 1>I have not been successful. Okay, so you can do math.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's good for your position because it's unlikely that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, um, uh and uh. You're the only Republican

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<v Speaker 1>in memory that all of these major liberal newspapers have endorsed.

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<v Speaker 1>So clearly you should run for governor. Would you like

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<v Speaker 1>to announce that now or are you gonna wait until

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<v Speaker 1>you're done being controller? Believe me, Believe me, I am.

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<v Speaker 1>I am so focused on trying to get this over

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<v Speaker 1>the finish line on the day that I can't even

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even think about what I'm gonna have for breakfast.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're not ruling it out. We're just I'm doing

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<v Speaker 1>the whole No no, no, no no. Clearly, clearly he's

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<v Speaker 1>angling for the presidency, Jackis. I'll tell you something that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm actually running to be global monarch. Beautiful name high

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<v Speaker 1>Lanie Lannie Chen Kennedy for California State Controller. It's always stimulating.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for the chat. Hey, thanks you guys. You got it.

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<v Speaker 1>So as you heard, he didn't say no um Art

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<v Speaker 1>Strong and Getty