1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: Quody Naris, But Joseph Scott more Mary Mary quite contrary, 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: how does your garden grow with silver bells and cocke 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: shells and pretty mates all in a row? I think 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: we probably all recognize that nursery rhyme because that's what 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, kids for ages have used that 6 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: over and over again. I remember that it was many 7 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: many moons ago being in nursery school is what they 8 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: used to call it, and we used all of these. 9 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: I think that teachers and I know nothing about teaching 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: small children, but they use these repetitive rhymes in order 11 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: to form language and get into rhythm, if you will. 12 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: But you know, these nursing rhymes have dark origins. I 13 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: think that many of you have heard that with Mary 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: Mary like contrary, its origin is said to go back 15 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: to Bloody Mary, who was Queen Mary the First of England, 16 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: and it has to do with her execution of hundreds 17 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: of Protestants over a very dark period in British history. 18 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,279 Speaker 1: And if you didn't know, some scholars believe that silver 19 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: bells and cockle shells are actually references to not things 20 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: that might adorn your garden, but actually they're tied back 21 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: to torture devices that were used in dungeons back during 22 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: those days. Today, we're going to talk about a case 23 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: that has linkage to Mother goose If you will, seemingly innocent, 24 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: a place where you can go and enjoy your children 25 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: and watch them play Mother goose Land. Actually, but like 26 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: these nursery rhymes, there's a very sinister underlying story here. 27 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks Joe. 28 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: Before we dig into the fairy tale part of this. 29 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: I had no idea that there were little parks all 30 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: over America that had names like Storytime Park or Mother 31 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 2: goose Land until I saw the headline in this story. 32 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: It says Mother goose Land Murder, Canton, Ohio. There actually 33 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: was a place called Mother goose Land. It's now known 34 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: as Cityfield Park, but it's still identified by those from 35 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 2: the area as Mother Gooseland. And we've got City Field 36 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: Park workers that are dumping trash cans nine thirty in 37 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: the morning, and they get to a big receptacle and 38 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: it's heavier than it should be, and as they look inside, 39 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: it appears to be a human body wrapped in plastic 40 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: has been shoved into the trash can. They immediately call 41 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: nine to one one and the identifier is Mother Gooseland. 42 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: So that's where today's story comes from, the Mother Gooseland murder. 43 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: But you were telling me about places that you knew of, Joe, 44 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: and in particular in New Orleans where you grew up, 45 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: going to a place that was kind of like this. 46 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: Right in the heart of City Park in New Orleans 47 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: is a location called story Land and it's been there 48 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: since the fifties. And when you walk through the gate, 49 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: it's you know that scene in Willie wanng Go where 50 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: they the kid the real Willy Wonka. I'm not talking 51 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: about this thing with Johnny. I'm talking about the real 52 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: Willy Wonka with the great late Jeene Wilder. Thank you, 53 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: the late great Gene Wilder, where they opened that door 54 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: and you see all of that candy. I don't know 55 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: about you. That was magical to me. That's the way 56 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: Storyland was when I was little in New Orleans. And 57 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: it's got all of the Mother Goose characters. There. You've 58 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: got old Mother Hubbard, You've got actually Mother Goose in 59 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: the air flying on her goose with children on her 60 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: back on the back of the goose as well the 61 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: little old man that lived in the little old house, 62 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, the crooked house, and it just goes on 63 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: and on, I mean, and you could walk and run 64 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: and play through all of these things. It's a glorified playground. 65 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: But they also had like a little roller coaster. And 66 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: it's not just me if you talk to any kid 67 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: that was the grew up and I split time growing 68 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: up in New Orleans when I was little. You know, 69 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: we you know, we lived in various locations, and but 70 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: those memories you know that you have when you're a kid. 71 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: I remember going to the streetcar line and New Orleans 72 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: is famous for the street car that runs down Saint 73 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: Charles and being there with my aunt and it was 74 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: the first place I ever put a penny on a 75 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: track and the street car would run over it, you know, 76 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: and crush it down. And of course that was adjacent 77 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: to one of another beautiful UH park and zoo called 78 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: Audubon UH the Autumn Zoo, which again, you know, is 79 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: a magical place for me and all of the kids 80 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: you know that inhabit these spaces. But Dave Brother, I 81 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: got to tell you, it's when something that is this 82 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: innocent winds up in the midst of what truly is 83 00:05:54,480 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: a real horror show. You know that that imagery from 84 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: your past. I think that there were probably a lot 85 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: of places around the country that were similar to this, 86 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: because the place we're going to talk about today is 87 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: it has a lot of similarity. It sounds like to 88 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: you know this place that I that's beloved to me 89 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: as you know, as a kid that grew up around it, 90 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, down in New Orleans. Well, can you kind 91 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: of take us through this real quick, because you know, 92 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: I got to tell our friends kind of sit back, 93 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: and this is something that I think shocked both Dave 94 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: and I when we heard this story. 95 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: Now, whenever our stories begin, Joe with somebody calling for 96 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: police to do a welfare check. It's a pretty innocuous 97 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: thing when you think about it, but in reality, for us, 98 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: it's usually a loved one, a friend, an employer that 99 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: had an expectation for you to be someplace and you weren't, and. 100 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: So they pick up, Hey, let me let me step 101 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: on you just for a second. I apologize. I want 102 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: everybody to understand this. Welfare checks by law enforcement are 103 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: done minute by minute all over the country. This is 104 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: not something there's not something sinister that pops up every time, 105 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: and so writes you our day because with this particular case, 106 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: there's a big reveal here I got to tell you. 107 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, here's your big reveal. Rachel Sheridan doesn't show up 108 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: for work and her mother, knowing the relationship with Sean 109 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: Goh and how volatile he can be, her mom. Rachel's 110 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: mom calls the sheriff's department and asks them to do 111 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: a welfare check on her. Deputies show up. They already 112 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: know that Rachel drives a maroon jeep Liberty, so they're 113 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: looking over the parking lot to see if they see it. 114 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: They don't. They go to the apartment and the door 115 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: to the apartment is open, not just unlocked and can turn. 116 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: We're talking. The door is open. They can see inside, 117 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: but deputies don't see anything that anything that actually gives 118 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: them the right to walk into that apartment right away 119 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: without a search warrant. So it's suspicious, so they stayed there. 120 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: They called their boss, Hey, we need a search warrant. 121 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: Here's why. So they're waiting on search warrant to right 122 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: so they can go in the apart and when they 123 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: see maroon jeep Liberty being driven by Sean go right 124 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: in front of him, so hey, let's find out what's 125 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 2: going on. He's driving her car. He has to know 126 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: where she is, so boom, they go ahead and light 127 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: him up. Well, he goes to pull over and Sean 128 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: go takes off and runs. He flees the scene. He 129 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: flees through the woods and everything else, and he gets 130 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: away from him. They search for him for hours, can't 131 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: find him anywhere. Finally, the next morning they do find 132 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: Sean go At a homeless shelter and they take him 133 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: into custody on some other warrants that he has out standing. 134 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: Still they haven't found Rachel Sheridan. They don't know where 135 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 2: she is. Then that's when the nine to one one 136 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: call comes in from Mother Goose Land Park now known 137 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: as City Field Park, and the workers calling with we 138 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: got a body wrapped in plastic in the trash. 139 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: Can this Mother Goose location? This is up in you know, 140 00:08:54,120 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: adjacent to Canton, Ohio, Stark I think it's Stark County location. 141 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: And you know this park that is there, The Mother 142 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: Goose Park has roughly been in operation or was in operation. 143 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,119 Speaker 1: And here's the odd thing. It opened in the fifties. 144 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: David Singh's been shuddered since the eighties, and you can 145 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: see the pictures of it online and there are all 146 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: these kind of magical looking, magical looking creatures that are 147 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: still existing. There's like a big whale in a lagoon 148 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: with its mouth open that kids could run into. How 149 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: can you resist not wanting to go into this place? 150 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: But when you take a look at it, it's got 151 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of because it's not being used, it's kind of 152 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: got a real creepy vibe to it now because nobody 153 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: is maintaining these things. These things are always brightly painted. 154 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: You know. 155 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: It's the type of stuff that you want to see 156 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: when you're a little kid. It attracts you to it. 157 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: You want to come in, Hey Mama, can we go 158 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: in here and play? You know that sort of thing. 159 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: This is the kind of place that you would see though, 160 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: and it's it's in stark contrast, you know, to like 161 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: what I love about Storyland in New Orleans that's really 162 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: kept up, brightly colored, all those sorts of things. And 163 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: you know, you think about the the deposition of a body, 164 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: it would I think that most people would not think 165 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: that it's a place where a body would be found, 166 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: maybe because it's an abandoned location and it has been 167 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,599 Speaker 1: shuttered since the eighties that it's it's nobody's going to 168 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: find it. And you know, sometimes it's just dumb luck where, 169 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, because how many cases do we have where 170 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: people just like vanish off the planet and you don't 171 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: have any kind of idea where they went to the 172 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: fact that they were able to find her body, I 173 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: think relatively quickly is amazing and there's a bit of 174 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna call it joy, but there's a bit 175 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: of relief for the family because how many cases have 176 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: we covered over the years where you know, and still 177 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: I get contacted all the time, particularly over social media, 178 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: can you help me? You know, we haven't seen our 179 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: and you know, helping people in that particular way is 180 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: not really my forte. But you know, there's so many 181 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: people out there that want to know where their loved 182 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: ones are. But I'm interested in something that you said 183 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: earlier about the welfare check. You know, when police typically 184 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: go and they must really have put the screws down 185 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: on the cops out here, because if they're not crossing 186 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: over that threshold to go into the location without a warrant, 187 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: and it's a welfare check most of the time if 188 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: you can if you know that somebody's in danger, as 189 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: long as you don't if the door is open and 190 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: you're calling out to them to check. I guess it's 191 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: probably departmentally dependent. When it's a it's it's health and 192 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: safety is actually kind of the the thread that runs 193 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: through this. From a legal standpoint, that's what they're trying 194 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: to do. You know, you can't go looking in hidden places, 195 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: and that's that's what the warrant would be for. But 196 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: it's again dumb luck that when they pivot and they 197 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: see her car moving down the road and then you 198 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: got a guy. They chase this guy down and he 199 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: bolts out of the car and runs off into the woods. 200 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: There's your sign. As they used to say. You know, 201 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: one of the questions I would ask when I would 202 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: show up at a scene, because you know, when by 203 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: the time the Emmy or corner investigator arrives at a scene, 204 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: you don't there's so many actors on the stage by 205 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: that time. Commonly, my practice, if there was some kind 206 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: of domestic beef that occurred, I would seek out the 207 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: actual beat unit, like the officer that was in the 208 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: patrol car. The unit that patrols this area their beat, 209 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: and I would go to that individual, not to their sergeant, 210 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: not to their lieutenant who was there, is like, hey, 211 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: can you tell me something. Have you ever rolled out 212 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: here on anything? Have you ever been by here, because 213 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: you'd be surprised. You know, when people see cops, you 214 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: know just kind of and I hate this term, but 215 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: they'll say cops are loitering around. Well, they're not loitering. 216 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: They're sitting there and they're watching. Now I'm not a 217 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: big fan of, you know, speed traps, but if you're 218 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: in a neighborhood and you see a cop, you know, 219 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of sitting there. They're watching most of the time, 220 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: and they know they've got their finger on the pulse. 221 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: They know more than people suspect about each house on 222 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: the block because they will have been called out to 223 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: domestic beefs, they will be called out when children are missing, 224 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: they'll be called out for an elderly person that has 225 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: fallen in the house, and they know that that and 226 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: some you know, you go back to this idea of 227 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things they teach is community 228 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: police and I don't know really how well that has worked, 229 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: but the idea of the cop getting out of the 230 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: car and just walking up to a fence and talking 231 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: to the elderly people that live on the street. Hey, 232 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: how you doing. I'm officer Mike, and this is my area. 233 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to introduce myself. So cops have a lot 234 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: of knowledge of that area. But you know, Dave, I 235 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: don't know if they even begin to suspect what they 236 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: would eventually find inside of that house, let alone, or 237 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: what they would find. 238 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: At the Mother Goose Park. 239 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: Here we go, bowilerplate statement incoming. I found no evidence 240 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: of forced entry or struggle. Wish I had a nickel 241 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: for every time I'd written that down. Wish I had 242 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: a bitcoin for every time i'd written that down. I'd 243 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: be a very very wealthy man. But because you know, 244 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: it's included in all of our reports, if we don't 245 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: see anything, but Dave, they they saw something at that 246 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: at that home. Not only was the door open, and 247 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: there's no indication that it was necessarily forced open, it 248 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: was just open, you know, It's not like it had 249 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: been kicked in necessarily. 250 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: That's an important part. Yeah, Yeah, because as they arrive, 251 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: they're doing a I want to go back to the 252 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: welfare check. Yeah, they're already warned that this is a 253 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: vau of a situation. Mom is concerned because she didn't 254 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: show up for work she always does, and she lives 255 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: with a man who is not oftentimes doing things in 256 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: her best interest. They have had a vallatle relationship. He 257 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: has allegedly beaten her before enough that family and friends 258 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: have been worried. And when they get there and they're 259 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: looking inside the apartment, they don't see anything that jumps 260 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: right out at them that says there was a struggle 261 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: or a fight in here. And as they're waiting for 262 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: that search warrant to arrive so they can go in 263 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: because at this point they're not seeing the whole apartment. 264 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: They're just seeing a living area and probably a kitchen. 265 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 3: You know. 266 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's only after they get the search warrant. 267 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: By the time they've already got they they know Sean 268 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: Goh has taken off. He's running, So what is he 269 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: He's driving her car and he's now running. 270 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: So and she's nowhere to be found. 271 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: Right, I still can't find her, still have not been 272 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: able to verify, you know. So they go into the apartment. 273 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: Now this is after you know, they get the search warrant, 274 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: and I can't imagine Joe, that the search warrant was 275 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: very specific, because it would have been we're looking, we 276 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: don't know where she is, we're trying to find her. 277 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: So would the warrant say they can go in the 278 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: apartment and look under things and see if they can 279 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: find share it. 280 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's it's going to be more specific. 281 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: And most of the time you have to have some 282 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of probable cause that's going to be an ingredient 283 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: into this. 284 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: But the welfare check in and of itself is not enough. 285 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: They can't know that it's well unless here's the thing. 286 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: If you if you visualize, let's just say that that 287 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: you walk into a scene, I think that a magistrate 288 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: or judge would bite on the idea if you see 289 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: what appeared to be and remember in forensics, we cannot 290 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 1: say something is blood until we test it and determine 291 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: that it is blood. But if you see what appears 292 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: to be blood at a scene, and you couple that 293 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: with anything that you might find in another location like 294 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: broken or turned over furniture, certainly any of item that 295 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: might have specific evidence on it, I think that a 296 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: magistrate would probably be willing to issue that warrant and 297 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: you can go in and you know, and you can 298 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: go in and process the scene at that point in time, 299 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: but yeah, you have to hold back because anything that 300 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: you do absent a warrant, you're really running the risk 301 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: of that being thrown out from an evidentiary standpoint. And 302 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: if that pe and you never know, Dave, what is 303 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: actually going to be critical to proving the case or 304 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: disproving the case with any type of item. Let's say 305 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: that you have some kind of of instrument that might 306 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: create a particular pattern. Okay, if you discover that instrument 307 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,479 Speaker 1: and you don't expecsily have permission to do that, or 308 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: the warrant is written inappropriately, or whatever the case might be, 309 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: then did you know that that item can't be included 310 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: as part of the evidence. And so you have to 311 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: That's why they're very very careful about these things because 312 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: for so many years, you know, people would just they 313 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: would go in to a scene and you know, with 314 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: their hair on fire and not not show up with 315 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: the appropri appropriate documentation relative to a warrant, and a 316 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: lot of stuff winds up being excluded, and if in 317 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: fact it is excluded, then that huge building block for 318 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: your case is blown at that moment in time, Dave, 319 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: all right. 320 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: And in this case, when they when they get the 321 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: search warrant and they go in, they're able to get 322 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 2: past the open the living area where they didn't see anything. 323 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: They're able to get into the apartment, and it's when 324 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: they get to the bedroom that they realize, Okay, we 325 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: got a problem. We have a major problem. I remember 326 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 2: Sean go Rachel and Rachel Sheridan and Shaan Goh live 327 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: together in this apartment, and he has been arrested and 328 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: is at jail on other charges, not to do with 329 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: this particular case of Rachel at the time, Remember he 330 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: was in her car. And so it's the next morning 331 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 2: he's in jail, and they've gone into the apartment and 332 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: they find in the master in the bedroom that they share, 333 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: that something has occurred. They see signs of struggle, they 334 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: see signs that point to a bloody fight. Yeah, in 335 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: the bedroom. And it's from that point on and this 336 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 2: is my I was curious about this because how far 337 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: did they go? We people bleed, a bloody knows can 338 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: cause a lot of issues. I'm also clumsy. I tend 339 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: to trip and fall. So if something is knocked over, 340 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 2: if there's a little blood, you could explain that. But 341 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: we have a violent man in jail and we can't 342 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 2: find his living girlfriend, and so where do you go 343 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: from here? 344 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the blood can be easily explained by any 345 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: defense attorney. We've heard this over and over relative to DNA, 346 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: because if you're domiciled there, it's not unreasonable to expect 347 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: to be able to find blood that has issued forth 348 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: from one of the occupants that's that's also you know, 349 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: domiciled there, so and that can be explained away. Yeah, 350 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: I felt, you know, like you said, I tripped, I 351 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: hit my head, all right, that explains the blood that's there. 352 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: Or yeah, you know, when you're thinking about Rachel, maybe 353 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: Rachel had a bloody nose. I don't know about you. 354 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: I'm prone to bloody noses. You know. I can be 355 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: sitting in church and all of a sudden, I feel 356 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: that warmth, you know, beginning to run down my lip 357 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: and it just spontaneously happened. Well, any attorney worth their 358 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: salt can make that argument, you know, if you find 359 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: but when you have this kind of dynamic event that 360 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: has occurred inside of the dwelling, particularly in the bedroom, 361 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: this very intimate space, and you've got there's a level 362 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: of reasonableness that comes into this. So if you've got 363 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: you don't expect, say, cast off blood from an instrument 364 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: to be on the walls. If you have a bloody nose, okay, 365 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: you don't expect to be to find a mattress that 366 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: is super saturated with blood, or sheets and towels and 367 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things and you know, maybe soaked 368 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: into carpet or onto the hardwood floor. And the patterns 369 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: themselves showed that this was a dynamic event with movement 370 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: and deposition and all these sorts of things that have 371 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: a certain level of velocity. You know, back to the 372 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: example of a bloody nose, if someone is standing there passively, 373 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: and that's a passive stain where it's just kind of 374 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: free falling through the air and it drops onto the 375 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: ground and it's kind of a classic droplet that you 376 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: would think that drops straight down and there's not much 377 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: dynamicism to it. You can have actually maybe multiple of 378 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: those spots, but you're not going to have it in 379 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: this kind of an elliptical pattern that occurs with a 380 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: little tail on it, you know, where it's cast off 381 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: and those sorts of things, so you have a reasonable 382 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: expectation that you would find blood there. But in an 383 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: environment like this, if you've got multiple locations where blood 384 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: has been shed, this is gonna you know, this is 385 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: going to give rise to this idea that an attack 386 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: probably occurred in this environment. But you know, Daved, the 387 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: thing about it is is that still, even though you 388 00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: have this evidence that's there, you don't have a body. 389 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,239 Speaker 1: And that's a problem in that moment, you don't have 390 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: a body, and that's the rub you know, you think about, 391 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, the absence of in what a chill because 392 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: if you're a police officer, you're still thinking that if 393 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: if there is blood and there's no body, maybe there's 394 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: a chance she's still alive. Maybe there's a chance we 395 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: can find her. And unfortunately, you know in this case 396 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: that's that's not necessarily true. 397 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: Dave, Wow, Well, you know they're looking for Rachel Sheridan, 398 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: her living boyfriend is sitting cooling his heels in jail. 399 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 2: They find blood, a mess in the bedroom and then 400 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: they get the sanitation workers. At nine point thirty that morning, 401 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 2: they call nine to one one found a body. Now, 402 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: they did not do a whole lot to look at 403 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: the body. They found a body and stopped, which is incredible. 404 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 2: I don't I wonder when I saw this, I wonder 405 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: how many times people have found a body and immediately 406 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 2: started poking around at it versus stopping everything and calling 407 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: nine on one. 408 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've had, I've had. I've had multiple 409 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: scenarios that have occurred. I've actually had civilians that have 410 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: come over. I've actually had civilians to do this with 411 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: decomposed bodies where and don't ask me what compels them 412 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: to do this, because when you're around a decomposed body, 413 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: it's most of the time it's one of the most 414 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: important things you can you know that you can encounter 415 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: in life. I've had civilians that have encountered bodies like 416 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: that and they they roll the body over, whereas I've 417 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: had I remember, in particular, I had an autoerotic case 418 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: with a gentleman that had hung himself on a door 419 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: on a door hinge with a dog cop nude in 420 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: a microtel if you're familiar with those, and the little 421 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: lady that was that was the housekeeper. She came to 422 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: the door and she had just arrived here in the country. 423 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 1: I think she was from Guatemala, if I'm not mistaken. 424 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: She couldn't speak English. She's pushing her cart up and 425 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: down the hall day and opens the door, and this 426 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 1: nude guy hanging by dog collar with his hands tied 427 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: is literally staring her in the face. And Dave, when 428 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: I got there, she the way she had alerted that 429 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: she had found the body was her screaming and she 430 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: was sitting this poor this poor lady was sitting on 431 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: the floor clutching her rosary with her knees pulled into 432 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: her chest, doing Hail Mary's in Spanish. And she was terrified. 433 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: So you never know what anybody's reaction is going to be, 434 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, when it runs the gamut, you know, just 435 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: like deaths run the gamut. You don't know what you 436 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: going to find. But if you're a sanitation worker, you 437 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: come across some pretty disgusting things, as you can imagine, 438 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: as there's probably stuff that you and I could never fathom. 439 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: You know that those people encounter out there in the 440 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: streets of things that we throw away that they go 441 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: out and collect. And it's interesting how that initial contact 442 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: might very well impact the case or affect the position 443 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: of the body so that we don't necessarily appreciate it 444 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: in its pristine condition. But I can tell you this, 445 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: when they finally alerted the police in regards to this 446 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: young woman's body, they didn't touch it. They called and 447 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: what they discovered when the m he got out there 448 00:27:52,119 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: was horrific. Sean Go, this person that I would assume, 449 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: at one point in time, professed, you know, professed his 450 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: love for Rachel Sharonan told her that he cared about her, 451 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: told her he would take care of her. And you know, 452 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: you know who knows, you know, with these domestic cases 453 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: that we catch like this, Dave, nobody knows anybody. You 454 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: never know the level of violence that anyone is particularly 455 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: capable of because you don't know what their you know, 456 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: psychological history is. You don't know what their criminal history is. 457 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: But Dave, I got to tell you. With Shawn Go, 458 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: he he had he had a reputation as a bad seed, 459 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: if you. 460 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: Will, bad seed. Now that's a dated comment. You know. 461 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: I also luck to use the term good egg every 462 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: now and then too. Just go with me. 463 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 2: She was a bad egg. Another reference to Jim Wilder. 464 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: Yep, there you go. 465 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: The egdicator. So in this particular case with Sean Goh, 466 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: as we mentioned earlier, as soon as police saw him, 467 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 2: as they're standing outside the apartment trying to find the 468 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: very beginning part doing their welfare check on Rachel, they 469 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: see Sean in her vehicle and they give chase. He 470 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 2: takes off in bolts. They get him locked up. And 471 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: this isn't the first contact that Sean Goh has had 472 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: with police. At the time he's arrested, he was wanted 473 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: on a number of different issues. He allegedly stole a 474 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 2: handgun from a residence in the North Canton area a 475 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 2: couple of months before Rachel goes missing. He had physically 476 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 2: threatened Rachel in the and friends and family knew about 477 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: these threats because he didn't just make a threat and 478 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: that was it. He made threats and he actually punctured. 479 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: The actual stories is cut holes in her tires. Now 480 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 2: that I'm always picturing a puncture, you know, like with 481 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: a knife or a screwdriver or something, but cutting holes 482 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 2: in her tires seems to take it to a different level. 483 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 2: It's a different phrase than I've ever heard. 484 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, it does. That means that you're jamming you're 485 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: probably jamming a sharp instrument in there. And I'm not 486 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: talking about like a piece of rebar. I'm talking about 487 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: like a knife, and you're going you're you're carving the tires, 488 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: is what it comes down to now. 489 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 2: Going into the sidewall. So the tire cannot be repaired. 490 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: It will have to be replaced, which is a lot 491 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: more expensive. Ten bucks to patch a tire hole versus 492 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: you know, one hundred dollars for a whole tire. 493 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and that's if you get a low 494 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: end tire. Right. And you know, this couple is unmarried, 495 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: they're living in an apartment together, she's driving a cheap liberty. 496 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: She doesn't strike me as somebody that's got a ton 497 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: of money. So when you strike out at her like this, 498 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: it's not just it's not just the violence that's implied, 499 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: it's also it puts a financial burden on her. He 500 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: would have known that because yeah, they yeah, absolutely, And 501 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: you never know what's going to set him off at 502 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: any particular time, what button is going to be pressed. 503 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: And you get somebody that has a history of violence, 504 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean it violence extends for me when you go 505 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: to someone's home and you actually steal a weapon that's 506 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: that has that has a flavor of violence to it 507 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: in that environment, even if you don't have physical contact 508 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: or you're not threatening, you know, what's your purpose to 509 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: specifically go to a location and steal a gun and 510 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: then you have this action with the tires. I can understand, Dave, 511 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: I can understand why her mother would have been terrified. 512 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: Can you imagine? I bet there are so many times 513 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: she had probably spoken with her and this this again 514 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: is a thread I worry about you, darling. Please is 515 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, can you break away from him? And you 516 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: never know what the dynamic is is somebody saying, you know, 517 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: oh I love him, He's going to change all this. 518 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: They never changed, Dave. They don't. It's it's it's the 519 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: same story over and over and over again, and you 520 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: wind up with something that winds up in this horror. 521 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: This horror showed that that's eventually discovered. 522 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: Just remember, any guy that will hit a woman once 523 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: is not going to stop at once. 524 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: No. 525 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: So here we have the sanitation workers called nine one one, 526 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: Rachel Sheridan's body. They find her at nine thirty or 527 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 2: that's when they call. So we know we have the 528 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: day the moment of discovery. But we don't know exactly 529 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: how long she has been dead because we don't know 530 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 2: other than the welfare check call. We know that police 531 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 2: recall specific time after she didn't show up for work, 532 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 2: but we don't know right now. Can they determined based 533 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: on the body they find at nine thirty in the morning, 534 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: can they go back in time and figure out approximate 535 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: time of death? Joe? 536 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I And just to give you a little insight, 537 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, when they first rolled up on this case 538 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: at the home they the police had shown up I 539 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: think on July second, at about twelve thirty two pm, 540 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: so you're going into the afternoon hours at this point 541 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: in time. They were able to hook him up, you know, 542 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: because he bolted, you know, while they were there initially. 543 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: They actually found him on the third, and they got 544 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: on this pretty quick. I don't know if they were 545 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: able to track him somehow or you know where, if 546 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: they were pinging his phone or what exactly happened. 547 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 2: They got it. I that was they got him at 548 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: a homeless shelter, right And I'm. 549 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: Talking about his movement relative to depositing Rachel's body, because 550 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: they actually found her on July the third, So it 551 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: was it was actually less than twenty four hours when 552 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: they finally found her body. Yeah, it would be. She's 553 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: going to be at the outer margins, Dave, as far 554 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: as postmortem changes go, you know where we're looking for 555 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: the rigidity to begin to release also, and this is 556 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: in this is in July, Dave. And so it's gonna 557 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: it'll be hotter. And as I've mentioned before, when it 558 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: comes to obviously body temp and certainly riger mortis, those 559 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: are going to be slightly accelerated. And when they find her, 560 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: she's actually cocooned and plastic. So he's taken time to 561 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: wrap her body up in plastic and has driven out 562 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: to the Mother goose Land area and found a plastic 563 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: track can not unlike you know what we have at 564 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: our homes that we roll out to the street if 565 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: you live in town, and you know, you put by 566 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: the road and the garbage guys come by and pick 567 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: it up, and you know, it was just the sanitation workers, 568 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: you know that looked into the can and saw and 569 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,919 Speaker 1: can you imagine their horror, you know when they lift 570 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: that lid up and they look inside and there's her 571 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: body inside of this of a rubbish container, you know, 572 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: the things that you discard. And I think that says 573 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: a lot here, Dave. It speaks to potentially how he 574 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: viewed her as as refuse, something to be thrown away, 575 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: treated horribly, And there's it's fascinating to me, as horrific 576 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: as this is. As horrific as this is when bodies 577 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: are cocooned like this, for us in forensics, it's actually 578 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: there's an upside to this. The upside is is that 579 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: there's a containment of evidence that takes place. So anything 580 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: that's on the body, you have the opportunity to retain that, 581 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: and not just retain it. Here's the cool part. You 582 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: actually keep it in place on the specific surfaces of 583 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: the body if it's deepended upon how it's secured. So 584 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: let's just say you've got a you've got a bit 585 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: of evidence, say a hair or something that's on the shoulder. 586 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 1: If they're cocooned in this wrapping, you can still find 587 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: that hair in place on the shoulder and it might 588 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: give you an indication as to where his hands were 589 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: on her or where his head was in relation to 590 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: her body. Did he slough hair, did it fall off 591 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: of his head onto her bloody handprint that may transfer 592 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: to her clothes because you know, you're having to manipulate 593 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: dead weight here. If there's been a spillach of blood 594 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: that's so significant, he can get blood on his hands, 595 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: transfer those contact points to her shirt, maybe the cuffs 596 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: of her pants, maybe to her bare legs. Drag her 597 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: onto the sheeting, the plastic sheeting, wrap her up in it. 598 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: The other thing that it protects because plastic is a 599 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: non poor surface, it protects layton prints, Dave. We've recovered 600 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: latent prints off of plastic sheeting before. And then if 601 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: there's blood involved, that's a different type of print from say, 602 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: for instance, a latent print that's oil. That's the you know, 603 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: generated from the oil in our fingertips. If he touches 604 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: her body with the bare hands and he transfers his 605 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: fingerprint onto that surface and it's the medium is actually blood, 606 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: that's a different type of print that can be recovered. 607 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: So the fact that her body is cocooned, even though 608 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: it's in this filthy rubbish container, she's kind of protected 609 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: in that sense. But that's not really what turned this case, Dave. 610 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 2: Is it they're able to determine Police say that you know, 611 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 2: she was attacked in the bedroom and then her body 612 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 2: was drug and placed and the damage, the wounds were 613 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 2: inflicted about her head, yeah, for the most part. And 614 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: they said she was beaten with an object. And they're 615 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 2: only willing, they being police and the medical examiner. They're 616 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 2: only about to go as far as saying that she 617 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: was hit with a hammer at least once. And I 618 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 2: find that to be an odd comment. There was only 619 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 2: of all the battering that was going on, Yeah, one 620 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 2: was obviously a hammer. I mean, they weren't. 621 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: All right, so if and they also believe, if I'm 622 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: not mistaken, that she was probably asleep when this occurred. Sorry, yeah, 623 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: and no, that's a significant point. So this coward waits 624 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: until this diminutive and she is diminutive, Dave, a young 625 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: woman is asleep, and he begins to essentially wail on her. 626 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: It's not surprising that they're identifying a single hammer strike here. 627 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: They found a hammer at the scene. But you know, 628 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: this is not something that is well thought out. This 629 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: is very frenzied. They were able to delineate that she 630 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: had been struck, that she had ten specific injuries that 631 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: apparently are all blunt force trauma, and this coward could 632 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: have potentially have shown up with a hammer, or he 633 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: could have beaten her in her sleep with his fist, 634 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: striking her all about her head, and then he goes 635 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: and gets a hammer, and she's so she's so wrung out. 636 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: I mean, just imagine if you're awakened from a dead sleep, 637 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: and I know you can imagine this, if you have kids, 638 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: you can imagine this. You're slumbering, you finally lay your 639 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: head on the pillow and suddenly there's a scream that 640 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: lets out in the middle of the night in your house. 641 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: You're completely diswarriented. How much more so with her if 642 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: she doesn't see this incoming and she's attacked in her 643 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: bedroom like this, And I guess the you know, the 644 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: coup de gras is going to be to take a 645 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: hammer and have this single hammer strike. The way they 646 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: were able to delineate this specific injury away from the others, 647 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that the others could not be 648 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: hammer strikes, because hammer can be held in any number 649 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: of ways. And this was, by the way, a claw hammer, 650 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: which means it's got a nail extractor on the back 651 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: of it. With the two prongs the very common hammer 652 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: that we see and that most of us own. This 653 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: is actually the blunt and end, the leading edge that 654 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,399 Speaker 1: she's struck with, and hammer strikes are very specific when 655 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: you see them in the morgue. When we're doing these examinations, 656 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: what would happen is her head would be probably completely 657 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: shaved at autopsy because it's impossible to appreciate all of 658 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: the injuries. And so when a body is when you 659 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,919 Speaker 1: have head strikes like this with women in particular, because 660 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: women commonly have more hair than guys, do, we actually 661 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: shaved their heads at autopsy. 662 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 2: I got to ask you something, Joe, and maybe this 663 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,359 Speaker 2: seems silly and no, but would you have to ask 664 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: the family about that? 665 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: No? No, I've had that question asking me before. This 666 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: is a search. No, we'll tell the funeral director, okay, 667 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: and the funeral director generally will. Now we've had families 668 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: that will ask the question, you know, why did you 669 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: do this? And here's the sole reason where it's an 670 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: evidentiary search. You know, you're you're trying to assess the family. 671 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: I think you know as time goes by, because they 672 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: probably can't have an open casket. And there have been 673 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: times where we've had these really traumatic events where I've 674 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: seen them get wigs, and funeral homes are good about 675 00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 1: doing that. Hats. People will put hats on individuals and 676 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: if they're going to have a viewing. But your sole 677 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: purpose here is I'll put it to you this way, knowing, 678 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: and I don't want to put words into this precious 679 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: woman's mother's mouth. But would you rather her head be 680 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: shaved and us appropriately assess these insults to her head? 681 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: Or do you want to run the risk of having 682 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: an incomplete assessment and this guy's back on the streets. 683 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 1: You know, I know which one I'm going to pick, 684 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: And because I want I want every I want every 685 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: ounce of retribution that I can get if I'm a 686 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: parent here. And so when we shave the head, and 687 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: sometimes we'll do it selectively, we were very very careful though, 688 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: and the more because and these are hard and this 689 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,240 Speaker 1: is one of the problems to run into. You'll see 690 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: like when you get a hammer strike, you'll actually have 691 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: an abrasion, Okay that you have to pay real close 692 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: attention to to see because it's so ghastly, because you'll 693 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: have a laceration. Many times that occurs so you've got 694 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: two things happening. That top layer of skin is abraided 695 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: and you'll see the little margins of it because the 696 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: skin is rubbed because it's coming in contact with this 697 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: metal object. Then the skin will split. Okay, sometimes on 698 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: the skin you can see the pattern like a it'll 699 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: look like a quarter almost. If it's a flush strike, 700 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: then depend upon the level of force. And I've seen 701 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: this happen. When you get below that layer of the 702 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 1: scalp and you get onto what's referred to as the 703 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: external table of skull, you'll see a plug of bone 704 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: day that's also shaped like a quarter, and it's depressed, 705 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: which means the bone actually sinks in to a criminal 706 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,760 Speaker 1: vault at that point in time, and you know, impacts 707 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: the brain directly and it'll you know, many times the 708 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: bone will fragment and the little shards of bone will 709 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: go into the brain. That's incompatible with life. Not to mention, 710 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, just a concussive event of this that leads 711 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: to death. The question is was he striking her with 712 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: a fist beforehand he had the hammer at the ready 713 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 1: and then used it, or was he holding the hammer 714 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: in a way that you couldn't really tell if it 715 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 1: was a hammer strike or not, Like if it's on 716 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,479 Speaker 1: the one of the edges, for instance, I don't see 717 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: that happening, because even if you strike somebody with the 718 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: edge of a hammer, you're gonna have these kind of 719 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: linear marks that occur on the soft tissue either way. 720 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,879 Speaker 1: Either way, they were able to determine that she did 721 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: die as a result of blunt force trauma. And thankfully, 722 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: very very thankfully, Sean Go is no longer among the 723 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: land of the free. He's now been convicted and now 724 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 1: he's awaiting sentencing. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 725 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 1: Bodybacks