Speaker 1: Okay, guys, and a little announcement about our tour. We
Speaker 1: have some good news and some bad news. The good
Speaker 1: news is we will be at Austin, Texas on nine
Speaker 1: to twenty seven. We're really excited to do a live
Speaker 1: show for you guys at Capcity Comedy Club there, So
Speaker 1: if you live in and around Austin, please come see us.
Speaker 1: That's messed uplive dot com for tickets. Other good news
Speaker 1: is that one of us has had a very fun
Speaker 1: professional opportunity pop up and it's awesome and we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about it more later. But unfortunately it means
Speaker 1: that we do have to reschedule our Houston and our
Speaker 1: Dallas dates. We are working with the club to reschedule
Speaker 1: those as soon as possible. I'm sure you're either going
Speaker 1: to get refunded or.
Speaker 2: Have your tickets.
Speaker 1: Well, you'll definitely get refunded if you can't make it
Speaker 1: to the new show date, but or your ticket will
Speaker 1: be honored at the next show dates. So we will
Speaker 1: get you those new show dates as soon as possible.
Speaker 2: We're so sorry.
Speaker 1: We were so excited to see you guys in Dallas
Speaker 1: and Houston, but you know, scheduling stuff happens, and we
Speaker 1: are super excited to reschedule.
Speaker 2: Them and come to you guys eventually, so we will
Speaker 2: let you.
Speaker 1: Know of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered
Speaker 1: especially watchable.
Speaker 3: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 3: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our
Speaker 3: stories done done. Hello, It's that's messed up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Lie as a.
Speaker 1: Tragger and I'm Kara Klank and you guys, hopefully by
Speaker 1: now know what we do. We are just gonna talk
Speaker 1: about an SVU episode, break down the true crime it
Speaker 1: was based on, and chat with an amazing guest from
Speaker 1: the show, and then at the beginning we just sort
Speaker 1: of chat and catch up because Lisa has abandoned me
Speaker 1: is currently living across the country just to get away
Speaker 1: from for me, honestly, and it hurts.
Speaker 2: We are in the time machine.
Speaker 3: But today, while you're listening to this is Kara's birthday.
Speaker 2: And also I will be.
Speaker 3: Seeing you in New York at that weekend, so we're
Speaker 3: all over, we're traveling, we're making it. There's a big
Speaker 3: surprise actually happening this weekend, so stay tuned for that bitches,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Don't tell them what big surprise this weekend? What are
Speaker 2: you talking about? Wait, I'm gonna type it in the chat.
Speaker 2: This is insane that you're not what's the big surprise?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: My mind is made out of what are you talking
Speaker 1: You're gonna feel so stupid when you read it that weekend. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I thought you met like this weekend. We're in the
Speaker 1: time machine. I'm very confused.
Speaker 2: Okay, listen, but I am coming home.
Speaker 3: I will be home tomorrow and uh yeah, I'll come
Speaker 3: get my car.
Speaker 2: Maybe let's go get breakfast burritos. Okay, yeah, when.
Speaker 1: You come get your car, yeahs burritos and one other thing. Oh,
Speaker 1: while we're talking about just like jet setting, I'll just
Speaker 1: get it out of the way. I gotta keep plugging.
Speaker 1: Our tour, guys, we are going on tour. We're so
Speaker 1: excited to see all of you guys. Thank you for
Speaker 1: telling us when you buy tickets. It makes me feel
Speaker 1: good when every time someone says I just bought a
Speaker 1: ticket for X show, it really does lift my spirits.
Speaker 1: We're going to be in Austin on September twenty seventh.
Speaker 1: We're going to be in Dallas at Improvent Addison on
Speaker 1: the twenty eighth, and we're going to be in Houston
Speaker 1: on the twenty ninth. So Texas, this is your opportunity
Speaker 1: to see us live. Our live shows are so fucking fun.
Speaker 1: It's not just a listen I will. I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to shut another podcasts. A lot of podcasts live, it's
Speaker 1: just them and it's sitting on it. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: that's fine if that's what you want to do. If
Speaker 1: you want to go watch a podcast, just be taped
Speaker 1: live and feel like, oh, magically I was in the
Speaker 1: room for that. Wow, how fun amazing. Ours is just
Speaker 1: like a little bit different. It's a full show. It's entertaining,
Speaker 1: there's visuals, there's clips, there's people coming up on stage
Speaker 1: like it's really fun. It's not just like sitting and
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast. So I think it's worth your tend.
Speaker 2: One show.
Speaker 3: So I did bring a skeleton hand, and then I've
Speaker 3: forgotten it every show, So stay tuned if I bring
Speaker 3: up Oh my God, it's going.
Speaker 1: To be spooky season when we're on the road, you
Speaker 1: got to bring that skeleton handback out.
Speaker 4: Girl.
Speaker 3: I cannot wait for spooky season. Yeah, I cannot wait
Speaker 3: like it. I'm gonna get a Halloween tattoo for sure
Speaker 3: this year. Okay, great, that's a great idea. Let Rosie
Speaker 3: help you pick it out.
Speaker 2: She'll be obsessed. Yes, guess what she wants to be
Speaker 2: for Halloween? A bat? Oh good? Simple? Easy?
Speaker 1: Ye?
Speaker 3: And today, time machine, Today is your birthday as they're
Speaker 3: listening today while we record, is the first day of
Speaker 3: you know, preschool again for oh.
Speaker 2: Yes, Rosie went back to school.
Speaker 1: It's not a big thing because she went to the
Speaker 1: summer program in the summer, so she wasn't like she
Speaker 1: doesn't know anything. But she is meeting a new teacher,
Speaker 1: so she's excited.
Speaker 2: But you know, well, no, in the little pictures, they
Speaker 2: look so much older.
Speaker 1: It's she's so funny, like because I go, okay, do
Speaker 1: a smile. She hates smiling for pictures, but she will
Speaker 1: do it for me. And then I go okay, now
Speaker 1: do a goofy one and that's where she really gets.
Speaker 1: She really shines, you know. But there were bats on it,
Speaker 1: so she's really into her batmoment. Yeah, Jared drew those
Speaker 1: bats on there for her. Here's the thing she's obsessed
Speaker 1: with the show PJ Masks, there's a character named Catboy.
Speaker 1: She is obsessed with Catboy. He wears a blue outfit obsessed,
Speaker 1: but he does not have wings. And so she has
Speaker 1: said she has been introducing herself to people as bat Boy.
Speaker 1: People say what's your name, and she goes Batboy, and
Speaker 1: so it's really like what she thinks bat Boy is
Speaker 1: in her head is just Catboy with bat wings.
Speaker 2: So we've sort of talked about it, and she keeps saying,
Speaker 2: I want.
Speaker 1: To be bat Boy for Halloween, and I keep being like,
Speaker 1: there is no Batboy costume. I guess I could get
Speaker 1: her a cat Boy costume, and like, so what about
Speaker 1: That's not what she's into. She likes Catboy with wings
Speaker 1: and then bat Boy, and she made it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, buy a normal and put some wings on it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe I'll buy a cat Boy and put wings on it.
Speaker 2: We'll see.
Speaker 1: We've been looking at Amazon together and some other resources
Speaker 1: for Halloween costumes, but we will see what she does, cause.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I would liked to turn a look.
Speaker 3: I mean I did run in to a celebrity, I
Speaker 3: would say, and their girlfriend said that they do a
Speaker 3: giant Halloween party every year and we did follow each
Speaker 3: other and they were like, we'll invite you, but it
Speaker 3: was drunk and like in May, so who knows, but
Speaker 3: I will be following up.
Speaker 1: But I really hope I get to go to this
Speaker 1: cool person's party. I really hope so too, And I
Speaker 1: can't wait for you to tell me who that is.
Speaker 3: But we also did get invited to a wedding together,
Speaker 3: which I thought was cute, and we do have to
Speaker 3: say we can't go, but that was fun to have.
Speaker 3: Aliza Kara Well, because you know, I've been, there's been.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm on the internet a lot. I'm on
Speaker 3: the internet and there is just there's like a lot
Speaker 3: of chats now of like plus ones and who do
Speaker 3: you like bring someone in not? And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: why is a boyfriend of one year more valuable if
Speaker 3: then you bring your best friend of ten years?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's like, if you can afford it, I think people
Speaker 3: should be able to bring whoever the fuck they want
Speaker 3: to the wedding.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I let my friend bring a date to my wedding
Speaker 1: who was her friend who I was friends who I
Speaker 1: knew too, And was like, yeah, bringer.
Speaker 2: Because you're a girls girl. Yeah. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I also am not really down with somebody bringing someone
Speaker 1: that they're like just hooking up with if I'm paying
Speaker 1: like a lot of money for it.
Speaker 2: I on Sex and the City that was like so weird.
Speaker 3: When Miranda was like, yeah, I'll bring this speed dating
Speaker 3: guy will earn it to this wedding, I'm like, itause
Speaker 3: your best friend's wedding.
Speaker 1: You want to entertain a strange man. I would so
Speaker 1: much rather go alone. I'm going to a wedding alone
Speaker 1: in three weeks in Boston. Wait, but can we can
Speaker 1: say whose wedding we got invited to together?
Speaker 2: We got invited to a really fun couple.
Speaker 1: Chelsea Davonta's Chelsea Davantes is a great writer who has
Speaker 1: an amazing podcast that les and I have been on
Speaker 1: called Celebrity book Club. She is marrying Yaser Lester, an
Speaker 1: amazingly funny comic and writer and actor, and their wedding
Speaker 1: is just going to be like I'm actually almost relieved
Speaker 1: that I don't have to find an outfit for it,
Speaker 1: because I just think the outfits are going to be
Speaker 1: so over the top. And oh yeah, so the theme
Speaker 1: of the wedding is try to outdo us. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: because they're fashion icons and so their whole thing is
Speaker 1: like try to top us, bitch, And so I think
Speaker 1: people will be turning looks.
Speaker 2: Like they're over the top.
Speaker 1: Like Chelsea makes her own shoes and like adds like
Speaker 1: little things to him and shit like that, Like they
Speaker 1: are over the top. And I've been following her, like
Speaker 1: on her stories, I've been following her wedding dress selection journey,
Speaker 1: and it's I just can't wait to see what the
Speaker 1: final product is. And I just was honored that we
Speaker 1: were invited and it was hilarious to get anything that
Speaker 1: said Karen Clinken Lea's a trigger on the front of
Speaker 1: the envelope, like we were invited as a couple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I loved it, loved it.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we're going to be on tour with you guys,
Speaker 1: and so we won't be able to go to the
Speaker 1: wedding because we I think we'll be in Alabama. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we give up everything for you guys. Yeah, Huntsville, Alabama.
Speaker 2: Come see us. Do people listen to us there? Please
Speaker 2: come see us. Oh wait, wait, we're gonna tell me
Speaker 2: about some Twitter thing. Oh.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say because we were going to
Speaker 1: talk about Housewives really quickly because the Salt Lake City
Speaker 1: trailer just dropped and it's got all this like juicy
Speaker 1: gen Shaw stuff in it. And I was recently on
Speaker 1: Amy Phillips Queen Amy Phillips. She's one of the one
Speaker 1: of the best Housewives imitators, Housewives experts.
Speaker 2: She's got a show on radio, Andy Lison.
Speaker 1: I go on it, and I was just on and
Speaker 1: she told me about this account called the Bravo Docket.
Speaker 2: It's also in a podcast, and they are.
Speaker 1: Two lawyers that analyze all the legal shit on Housewives.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And I thought you would appreciate that because because you're like,
Speaker 1: the Housewives has become true crime, you know, we talk
Speaker 1: about that all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean also, okay, obviously Jenshaw will be going
Speaker 3: to Jill for fifteen years. But the additional thing of
Speaker 3: that Salt Lake City trailer was Heather Gay has a
Speaker 3: fully black eye.
Speaker 2: Someone punched her in the face, So or do you
Speaker 2: think it's back else? Do you get that?
Speaker 3: Because she took off her glasses like look, I could
Speaker 3: just see the show teasing.
Speaker 2: It and it being like, I fucking a huge Okay,
Speaker 2: then what shut her eye fully closed a baseball bat.
Speaker 1: What like running into a like a plank of wood
Speaker 1: where you're getting your new a new beauty lab made
Speaker 1: or something like.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just have a feeling. It's not from a person.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling. It's just a feeling. I'd like
Speaker 1: to hope. I'd like to hope. It's like, I know,
Speaker 1: it's not ever real. When someone's like I ran into
Speaker 1: a door, it's like, you know, that looks like it's
Speaker 1: from a punch. But yeah, it's an intriguing trailer. It
Speaker 1: looks really good.
Speaker 2: Wait, so Southern Charm.
Speaker 3: I have been watching and it is uncomfortable and bad
Speaker 3: and there's such bad people.
Speaker 2: But yet I think I thought why I had to stop.
Speaker 2: I had to stop. That stops I was.
Speaker 1: I was late to join and then I stopped. But
Speaker 1: I did dabble for a few seasons. So it's like
Speaker 1: you're just where I was a couple like a year
Speaker 1: or two ago. And then I think when it got
Speaker 1: too plantation y, and I was like I gotta go,
Speaker 1: like I can't. It's just sad to watch Catherine. She's
Speaker 1: really a mess, Like yeah, but overall it.
Speaker 3: Just in jet like I calling someone racist, is not
Speaker 3: that Like if you say, like that's racist, it's like
Speaker 3: you can't throw that.
Speaker 2: And it's like, but you are racist. What are you
Speaker 2: talking about?
Speaker 3: Your family owned slaves and you will not admit it,
Speaker 3: like your family owned people, and you won't even do
Speaker 3: enough to like actually learn what is happening and what
Speaker 3: the truth of everything is, and you're offended you might
Speaker 3: be called a racist. It's like, even if you're not
Speaker 3: a racist, you are. We're part of the system. And
Speaker 3: I just hate how they don't listen or want to
Speaker 3: learn anything when it's like your family did this, because
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people should be like we
Speaker 3: came in the nineteen hundred. It's not us, but it's
Speaker 3: like it was you. It's your families. You're living in
Speaker 3: those homes. How are you not acknowledging a little bit?
Speaker 3: It's it is fucked.
Speaker 1: Like I know, I haven't I haven't watched it in
Speaker 1: a minute, so I don't even know who's still on.
Speaker 1: But like it's like Thomas Ravenel, like those people like Whitney,
Speaker 1: I don't know, they seem like bad.
Speaker 3: I don't know it's bad. I shouldn't watch it. But
Speaker 3: now that page isn't it's it is really tough.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I was at our friend Allison's house. Mm hmm, she's
Speaker 3: such an adult. I mean a totalini pesto pasta salad,
Speaker 3: a roast chicken salad with pormage, not fresh, not like
Speaker 3: like I couldn't believe it made an olive oil.
Speaker 2: Cake with fresh whipped cream.
Speaker 1: It's like a delicious whole foods like foody gall It's great.
Speaker 2: I literally have you know what I brought Reese's peanut
Speaker 2: butter cups and little one are the chips uts chips.
Speaker 2: That's why I brought.
Speaker 1: I think Alison loves uts chips, and I will confirm
Speaker 1: she loves us chips.
Speaker 2: That's actually a perfect thing to bring.
Speaker 3: But cocktail weenies. I brought frozen kosher cocktail weenies. This
Speaker 3: bitch is whipping up salads. I keep interrupting. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: It was just I love that.
Speaker 1: That's very funny too, that you brought the wienies, like,
Speaker 1: not with the bread around the outside, just the naked weenies.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no, the whole thing. They had
Speaker 2: the okay, they had their outfits. I thought it brought
Speaker 2: like a bag of the wienies. No, no, they okay, No.
Speaker 1: All I was gonna say is I literally texted Alison
Speaker 1: yesterday and I go, I need your help. I need
Speaker 1: to know how to make a good salad at home.
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand. I buy all the stuff and
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is all the stuff I like in
Speaker 1: a salad at Sweet Green, and then it doesn't taste good.
Speaker 1: And I know Sweet Green like salts their salads and whatever,
Speaker 1: that's a different thing. It's just why can I not
Speaker 1: make it even haste the way a side salad at
Speaker 1: a restaurant tastes like it's not.
Speaker 2: Did she help you? What's this? She gave me some
Speaker 2: good tips? She gave me some good tips.
Speaker 1: Well, she said, a good well, she said, it starts
Speaker 1: with the kind of greens that you like.
Speaker 2: So like, I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 1: I think I gotta not get my greens at Trader Joe's.
Speaker 1: I love Trader Joe's, but I think I gotta get
Speaker 1: my greens someone.
Speaker 2: An expensive, nice crunchy lea.
Speaker 1: Yes, And then she said for her, she thinks it's
Speaker 1: all about the dressing, so she grates. She grates garlic
Speaker 1: into her dressing, which is usually I think just a
Speaker 1: little bit of like oil and and uh maybe even vinegar,
Speaker 1: but maybe not.
Speaker 3: I gotta make cretons. She made sesame croutons.
Speaker 2: I've made a creuton before for one of these meal kits.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, it's like wild, like she is really got,
Speaker 1: she's got going on with the oh, come on over,
Speaker 1: and then just there's a beautiful like spread, like a
Speaker 1: beautiful Instagram level sharcuterie platter.
Speaker 2: You know, that's her vibe.
Speaker 3: So she after we went to her last show, she
Speaker 3: showed me a cool restaurant called Commerce In and I
Speaker 3: went again this past week with a few friends and
Speaker 3: I wanted to get a gift certificate for some friends.
Speaker 2: I asked, they don't do gift certificates. So then our other.
Speaker 3: Friend went, oh, can you maybe just call and like
Speaker 3: buy a bottle for someone?
Speaker 2: And they go, we don't have a phone. Oh a
Speaker 2: lot of restaurants don't have phones anymore. That's sexy. No phone,
Speaker 2: No get certificates.
Speaker 1: Okay, I tried to get I tried to change something
Speaker 1: with a restaurant, and like their website was like just
Speaker 1: email us, like we don't have a phone, Like they're
Speaker 1: just not here to talk to you anymore.
Speaker 3: Now they're just here to whip up, you know, delicious salads.
Speaker 1: I gotta try that place. Maybe we'll go there after
Speaker 1: our meetup in New York. Anyway, guys, we're going to
Speaker 1: start the episode That's Messed Up. That's messed Up. Live
Speaker 1: dot Com has all people keep going no Philly, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, Philly's on there, or like they'll be like,
Speaker 1: are you coming to Boston?
Speaker 2: It's on there. Check out all of our dates.
Speaker 1: They're all up at That's messed Up live dot Com
Speaker 1: And uh yeah.
Speaker 3: And I met a lot of our great listeners while
Speaker 3: I was here in New York bopping around. They came
Speaker 3: out to the show. So thanks. I enjoyed meeting all
Speaker 3: of you. Thanks for complimenting me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, guys, let's dive into Oh it's a
Speaker 1: killer episode, so good. All right, all right, it's time
Speaker 1: to do Roodium Nights, Season thirteen, episode twenty three.
Speaker 2: I don't know why this is called roodium Nights.
Speaker 1: I looked it up and I found some Reddit conversation
Speaker 1: of a bunch of people that were also confused and
Speaker 1: were some people were trying to do math about like
Speaker 1: the chemical compound of rodium is the number of letters
Speaker 1: that are in this title, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: think you guys are overthinking it. But rodium's like an
Speaker 1: element that's very shiny and dark or something, So maybe
Speaker 1: that's alluding to the underworld of high class sex rings.
Speaker 1: But anyway, here we go this episode on Hulu. The
Speaker 1: thumbnail is a thumbnail of our girl, Laura ban Anti
Speaker 1: with the deadist eyes I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: She's just like staring and she's like barely in this.
Speaker 2: I know. It's weird.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know who's picking the thumbnails over at Hulu,
Speaker 1: but maybe they thought that well.
Speaker 2: Man's annoying.
Speaker 3: Like this is the beginning of a series of three
Speaker 3: episodes spanning two seasons. Hulu combines things fucks the numbers, it's.
Speaker 2: Like so obnoxious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we don't need to see it the
Speaker 1: way that it aired on NBC at the time. They're
Speaker 1: all separate episodes.
Speaker 2: Just put them. It's so weird.
Speaker 1: But we open on a wild party and you can
Speaker 1: tell because they immediately show two women kissing.
Speaker 2: Woo woo. This party's wild.
Speaker 1: We're seeing some shots through the POV of a video camera,
Speaker 1: so someone's clearly like making a documentary about this party.
Speaker 1: And then I don't understand really why at all these
Speaker 1: wild parties there's always somebody like fully videotaping it, like
Speaker 1: outside of cell phone video, Like I don't understand, Like
Speaker 1: if you're.
Speaker 2: Well, the criminals like it.
Speaker 3: You know, this wouldn't be the first rape situation that
Speaker 3: caught on tape.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that there's it always. I mean it also
Speaker 1: like allows the cops later to have a full breakdown
Speaker 1: of everything that happened where they can zoom in and
Speaker 1: say that person went there, that person went there.
Speaker 2: So I get why we do it as a TV device, But.
Speaker 1: It's always like is that guy gonna get to enjoy
Speaker 1: the party or is he just like videography like videographers.
Speaker 2: It's strange anyway.
Speaker 1: So pretty much every woman at this entire party is
Speaker 1: in lingerie. Everybody's dancing, they're grinding. I see a man
Speaker 1: being led on a leash. There's cigars, there's coke on mirrors.
Speaker 1: This is a time. And now we are out on
Speaker 1: the balcony and there are these finance douche bros talking
Speaker 1: about like the market and the economy and like bailing
Speaker 1: out Greece in Italy and nobody cares, and one of
Speaker 1: the girls that is with them looks super fucked up.
Speaker 1: She's like slumped over trying to get champagne. She's like
Speaker 1: spilling it on the bros. They're like, whoa babe, chill out.
Speaker 1: And then this one guy walks up and tells one
Speaker 1: of the bros we have a situation. And the guy
Speaker 1: who walks up and says that is an actor named
Speaker 1: Eric Leyden, and I obviously know him from Bosh and
Speaker 1: he also is He's very prolific. He was also in
Speaker 1: The Killing Boardwalk Empire. He's a character actor. He has
Speaker 1: a very like Neil Patrick harrisy vibe to me, and
Speaker 1: he is working, honey. He has a lot of credits,
Speaker 1: so you've seen him in something. Back inside the apartment,
Speaker 1: their problem is revealed itself and it is two uniformed
Speaker 1: police officers standing by the door, music blaring, everyone's still grinding.
Speaker 2: Party is still raging, and the douche guy.
Speaker 1: Goes, oh, you're with the third My dad speaks really
Speaker 1: highly of your captain.
Speaker 2: So immediately we don't know who this douche guy.
Speaker 1: Is, but we know that he is super connected with
Speaker 1: the cops somehow. And they're like, I just like, in
Speaker 1: what universe is the dad talking about like which captains
Speaker 1: are killer to his son, I don't get it. Like
Speaker 1: over dinner, they're like, you know who rocks the captain
Speaker 1: of the third Yeah, I see, you get it. So yes,
Speaker 1: it's it's nuts. But we get an immediate idea who
Speaker 1: this guy is. And they say there's been a new
Speaker 1: noise complaint and my little dougie howser guy explains, I'm
Speaker 1: just throwing my bachelor party for my boy. So they're like,
Speaker 1: we'll keep it down, and then the cops just like
Speaker 1: buy that and leave. They're like, okay, thank you, Like
Speaker 1: there's no like you could just see how these people
Speaker 1: are getting away with whatever they want. It's definitely the
Speaker 1: politest behavior I've ever seen from cops. So now it's
Speaker 1: apparently showtime where the bachelor is going to get a
Speaker 1: big lap dance. Even though naked women have been like
Speaker 1: hanging all over him the entire night, this is like
Speaker 1: the big performance. So two women are like dancing up
Speaker 1: on the sky and there are so many people video
Speaker 1: on their phones, but there is also the documentary in
Speaker 1: there with his big ass camera getting all the shots
Speaker 1: he needs to get this baby into sun dance and
Speaker 1: Doogie is making out with a blonde woman on the
Speaker 1: side and they decide to like sneak away to fuck
Speaker 1: and then back in the bedroom there are a thousand
Speaker 1: coats and purses on the bed.
Speaker 2: I mean, this party has passed apps.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe they'd have like a coat closet, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But nah, it's just the bed, you know.
Speaker 3: So, but how you are there empty coat closets, Like
Speaker 3: my parent's coat closet.
Speaker 2: Is filled, I know.
Speaker 1: But like this guy is this massive apartment he lives
Speaker 1: in by himself, Like I assume there would be like
Speaker 1: I don't know, some kind of area for coats or
Speaker 1: whatever the reason.
Speaker 2: It's so nineties to me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure people are layering coats on beds now,
Speaker 3: but like it's such a.
Speaker 2: Nineties thing to me.
Speaker 3: Where the side parties, there's a sex in the city, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: so many like storylines based on coat piles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And whenever I had there have been multiple people
Speaker 1: found in coat piles. I feel like in this show
Speaker 1: as well, this is not the only one. Whenever I
Speaker 1: had a party in New York, my bed was just
Speaker 1: a coat pile. I just I lived in a one
Speaker 1: bedroom like, I thought this rich man would have, you know,
Speaker 1: more coat access.
Speaker 2: But anyway, here we are.
Speaker 1: They're they're they're canoodling on this bed full of coats
Speaker 1: and Chanel purses and then or maybe they're not Chanell purses.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe they're knockoffs. But then the girl
Speaker 1: feels like she's on top of something. She pulls a
Speaker 1: coat back and dunt on it's the poor wasted girl
Speaker 1: from earlier, eyes wide open, what looks like vomit on
Speaker 1: her chin, and she is dead. So yikes. They start
Speaker 1: freaking out. Dougie goes right into spin mode. He is
Speaker 1: just like, uh, okay, wait, let.
Speaker 2: Me figure this out. I got this, I got this.
Speaker 1: And it turns out that his name is Clayton Hannigan
Speaker 1: and he is a cable news host and my money
Speaker 1: is on Fox News. But they do not specify. In
Speaker 1: the next scene, Olivia, we find this all out. In
Speaker 1: the next scene when Olivia and Tomorrow arriving, they're getting
Speaker 1: the scoop from the uniformed officers. It's the same two
Speaker 1: cops from the night before. They're back again and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Clayton hosted this bachelor party gone wrong and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the victim was found in the rooftop pool, so already
Speaker 1: we as viewers, we know that's not where she was found.
Speaker 2: So what's going on?
Speaker 1: And liv wants to know why SVU is there and
Speaker 1: the cops like, my captain's not a risk taker.
Speaker 2: We don't know what that means, but we do find out.
Speaker 2: So then in a.
Speaker 1: Moment of pure comedy, we find out that all these
Speaker 1: people were in such a rush to get the hell
Speaker 1: out of there when they found a dead body that
Speaker 1: they overloaded the penthouse elevator and they have all been
Speaker 1: stuck in there for over an hour. And I wish
Speaker 1: that we got some footage from inside the elevator. Would
Speaker 1: love to say it is a fear.
Speaker 3: It doesn't like overtake my whole life, But well, no
Speaker 3: one wants to get stuck in an elevator.
Speaker 1: I guess we're all kind of scared of that a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yes, well I did I did? Did I
Speaker 1: ever tell you about when.
Speaker 3: My aunt Did you work at an elevator company?
Speaker 1: No? But my aunt and uncle had this like really
Speaker 1: gorgeous like loft in Soho for a few years where
Speaker 1: they moved and because they live they've always lived on
Speaker 1: the Upper West Side, but they decided they wanted to
Speaker 1: live in a different neighborhood for a few years, so
Speaker 1: they moved to this big loft and soho I was
Speaker 1: house sitting it one year in the summer, and I
Speaker 1: had a big party, all these comedians and they had
Speaker 1: an You needed an elevator to get up to it.
Speaker 1: I mean you could take the stairs, but like the
Speaker 1: elevator was what everybody took, and all these comics overloaded
Speaker 1: it and broke it, and I had to like make
Speaker 1: up a story. It was like, I don't even know
Speaker 1: if my cousin listens to this podcast, but if you're listening,
Speaker 1: don't rat me out, but sorry, did you spin? I
Speaker 1: think I was said that it was just my brother
Speaker 1: and his two friends in the elevator, and it suddenly stopped,
Speaker 1: like I was like, I don't know what happened, you know,
Speaker 1: like and then we had to call a person. It
Speaker 1: was so stressful because all these people and I think
Speaker 1: my brother was in the elevator and a bunch of
Speaker 1: people and they were all like.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we were sweating. It was a nightmare.
Speaker 1: Like everyone was trying to figure out how we could
Speaker 1: climb out of the elevator, like, but and this is
Speaker 1: like a four story build, a four story building, Like
Speaker 1: it's not that many floors, you know.
Speaker 3: But I would also be scared to climb out because
Speaker 3: what if in that moment it started right, it starts moving.
Speaker 3: It's like I'm sure you've seen that in a horror movie.
Speaker 3: But it's like, I think that happens in like speed. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love speed.
Speaker 2: It's nodding. Speed holds up, dude, It's scary, it's good.
Speaker 2: Speed is wild.
Speaker 1: So anyway, these people are living out their speed fantasy
Speaker 1: stuck in an elevator and up on the roof they
Speaker 1: are loading this dead girl onto a gurney and live
Speaker 1: comments about how young she looks. And she must be
Speaker 1: able to tell because she works in this line of work,
Speaker 1: because I cannot tell how old girls are ever.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you could.
Speaker 1: Be the varsity field hockey captain, or you could be
Speaker 1: like an executive with a four oh one K. Like
Speaker 1: I truly cannot gauge age anymore. Like, especially when I'm
Speaker 1: taking my kid to school. There's a high school right there,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're in high school? Like some of them
Speaker 1: just looks so old. But lives Chris Deliah, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, Dan, look no, I'm just joke.
Speaker 2: I please.
Speaker 1: I think you can definitely tell when someone's young. I
Speaker 1: just can't differentiate college, high school, college, and like young
Speaker 1: just out of college.
Speaker 2: Anyway, they talked to Clayton.
Speaker 1: He's all wet and he's telling them that a caterwaiter
Speaker 1: found the body and that this girl must have just
Speaker 1: been skinny dipping and like you know, died and he
Speaker 1: jumped in, pulled her out and tried to do mount
Speaker 1: to mouth. So he's painting himself a nice little hero
Speaker 1: portrait and he doesn't know her. She must have been
Speaker 1: someone's plus one. And when Amaro asks for the invite list,
Speaker 1: he goes it was more of a word of mouth
Speaker 1: type of thing, like I don't think this guy made
Speaker 1: an evite, if you know what I'm saying, and lives
Speaker 1: like you're a journalist, do better, And then Rollinson interrupts
Speaker 1: with Finn and is like, live, there's the scoop, like
Speaker 1: this is why the local precinct does not want to
Speaker 1: touch this. It's because the elevator was packed with all
Speaker 1: these like high powered VIP people like a former Yankee
Speaker 1: two current MLB players, an NHL player, two Hedge fun guys,
Speaker 1: two secret service agents, and then there's the Bachelor who
Speaker 1: is named Will Brady and he is the police commissioner's son.
Speaker 2: Done.
Speaker 1: Done, and now we finally get to the credits. A
Speaker 1: very packed cold open. We've got a dead body, We've
Speaker 1: got a lot of high powered players, and I love
Speaker 1: this arc. This three episode arc was like so fun
Speaker 1: to me when it was first on.
Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, it really is great.
Speaker 3: You know, they don't do it very often, and so
Speaker 3: it was a treat to have, like the cliffhanger and
Speaker 3: sorry to bust, sorry to blow it, but there is
Speaker 3: a cliffhanger at the end of the episode. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I love when they take this thing and the guest
Speaker 3: stars have like a stretch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is very cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a lot of good guest stars in this.
Speaker 1: I will review them as we go through them, but
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of people. Okay.
Speaker 2: So top of act.
Speaker 1: One, the detectives are interviewing Will the bachelor, the little
Speaker 1: like daddy boy who has a powerful daddy. So he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad told me to fully cooperate, Like what a
Speaker 1: tragedy I'm super broken up about this girl who died, and.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know who she is.
Speaker 1: And he's like and he's like, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if anyone was hired to come to the party, and
Speaker 1: if anyone was, it's not a crime, like he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's like, escorts aren't a crime. They're just dates, you know,
Speaker 1: and lives like, yeah, but all you little sardines and
Speaker 1: that elevator looked like you were fleeing the scenes, So
Speaker 1: what's up? Like why the rush if nothing illegal was
Speaker 1: going on? And he says to Live, I get a detective,
Speaker 1: you're in a tough spot here, and it's like Live's
Speaker 1: face is immediately livid, and it's kind of like implying
Speaker 1: that I know it's going to be hard for you
Speaker 1: to work this case with so many connected people involved,
Speaker 1: Like it's gonna be really tough. And I get where
Speaker 1: you're coming from, like lives like exqueeze me, like she's mad,
Speaker 1: And then Daddy Craigan has to swoop into diffuse and
Speaker 1: Will's like, I gotta go call my feet on stand
Speaker 1: away before this whole thing goes viral, and it's like, okay, dog,
Speaker 1: so tomorrow is now talking to Clayton, who I've been
Speaker 1: calling Doogie up until now, and he and Will are
Speaker 1: college buds and he is going to be the best
Speaker 1: man in the wedding.
Speaker 2: And he says, you look.
Speaker 1: Look when the body was discovered, I was in the
Speaker 1: living room giving a toast.
Speaker 3: Wait, I am sorry to go off topic again. You're
Speaker 3: doing such a great job, but something did come to me,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't need to be in an intro.
Speaker 2: I think it's worth it. Do you know that?
Speaker 3: Uh a friend of a friend. I hate this, I
Speaker 3: don't hate it. Whatever, I got scoop that someone in
Speaker 3: my extended circle of friends did suck his own dick.
Speaker 2: What do I know this person?
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know them or not, but
Speaker 3: the name sounded familiar and that's why I started laughing
Speaker 3: about it in my own head. But yeah, he like
Speaker 3: walked his legs up on the wall and like did it.
Speaker 3: But he said, this is the funniest part. I mean,
Speaker 3: this is sick. But he said it's more like sucking
Speaker 3: your own dick than getting a blowjob.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, like it like it feels better to get
Speaker 1: a hand job than to jerk yourself off.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's even true all the time
Speaker 3: with the hand jobs, that's like a controversial take care.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I no, I mean I feel like, don't
Speaker 1: people always like doesn't? Oh I thought I didn't know
Speaker 1: that was controversial. Oh God, better when someone else did it.
Speaker 2: No, I think they.
Speaker 3: I think they don't want hand jobs because they're better
Speaker 3: at hand jobs because they're jerking it all the time.
Speaker 2: Oh gotcha, gotcha? Yeah? Wait, what made you think of this?
Speaker 3: The name sounds Clayton, It like reminded me of the name,
Speaker 3: and then I had just heard the stories. So then
Speaker 3: I just started like like being discusted and laughing and
Speaker 3: if I have to have this horrific image in my head,
Speaker 3: now you do too, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And all of our listeners amazing.
Speaker 1: So Amaro's talking to Clayton and he's like, yeah, we're
Speaker 1: college buds. I'm the best man, and he said when
Speaker 1: the body was discovered by the cater raider, I was
Speaker 1: in the living room giving a toast, so like it
Speaker 1: definitely wasn't me that or like if you're suspecting anything,
Speaker 1: And then Finn's like, where'd you get all the girls from?
Speaker 1: And he plays dumb and he's like oh, these are
Speaker 1: all people's guests and dates, like, I can't stop people
Speaker 1: from bringing dates.
Speaker 2: To my parties.
Speaker 1: And then Rollin's at the same time is interviewing one
Speaker 1: of the finance bros who we saw the dead girl
Speaker 1: earlier kind of like falling all over and spilling her
Speaker 1: champagne on. And he sees a picture of her and
Speaker 1: so respectfully says he mostly remembers the top of her head,
Speaker 1: so he's a douche.
Speaker 2: But then he goes, listen, she was super fucked up.
Speaker 1: She could barely talk, and he says, I didn't give
Speaker 1: her anything like, but she did seem like she was
Speaker 1: on something. And he then he like sees Rollin's cuffs
Speaker 1: in her pocket. He goes, you ever use your handcuffs
Speaker 1: in bed? And she just comes right back and goes,
Speaker 1: you ever get laid without paying for it? And I
Speaker 1: like that, I'll give that. I like Rollin's telling Finance
Speaker 1: Wall Street finance bros where they can fuck it stick it.
Speaker 2: And now the.
Speaker 1: Squad is all together outside on this rooftop beautiful root
Speaker 1: near this beautiful rooftop pool, chatting about how like, look,
Speaker 1: no one's really talking. Everyone's kind of throwing up roadblocks,
Speaker 1: and Amorrow's like, we should compasit gate all the cell
Speaker 1: phones because these dudes definitely filmed all the action. Craigan's like,
Speaker 1: with these people not without a warrant, let's slow down
Speaker 1: until we hear from them, and then lives like sidebars
Speaker 1: with the Captain and is like, why are we going
Speaker 1: so easy on these guys, and he's like if we
Speaker 1: push too hard, the lawyer up. Like Captain Craigan, I
Speaker 1: think as many years as he's been in SVU, he
Speaker 1: kind of gets the politics of it all. So now WHOA.
Speaker 1: Now we're at like a scene that I didn't really
Speaker 1: need to see. It doesn't really like matter in this
Speaker 1: episode very much. But we're at Amorrow's apartment getting a
Speaker 1: sneak peek into his loveless marriage. He's on an hour break,
Speaker 1: wanted to catch some you know Z's at home and
Speaker 1: Maria is just staring aka Laura b Nanty friend of
Speaker 1: the Pod. She's just standing on her sitting on a
Speaker 1: couch like staring at him super blankly, and he's like,
Speaker 1: what's up, Like it's so weird, like and then she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we have to talk about this at some point, right,
Speaker 1: And he goes, I know, and then it's clearly their
Speaker 1: appending divorce, but they don't really get into it anymore
Speaker 1: and it's really hard to care. That's all she is
Speaker 1: in the entire episode, and they do make her the thumbnail.
Speaker 2: So congrats girl.
Speaker 1: Now we're at Melinda's house, as Lisa calls it, and
Speaker 1: she's got the autopsy, and she says, what's up. This
Speaker 1: girl did not die drowning. She had no water in
Speaker 1: her lungs. She odeed on scopolamine. Hello, old friend. If
Speaker 1: you guys remember I did a sort of a thorough
Speaker 1: breakdown on scopolamine in the episode Smut where we talked
Speaker 1: about this drug. It's also called Devil's breath, and it
Speaker 1: makes people able to sort of like walk around semifunctionally
Speaker 1: while they're completely blacked out, like creating no new memories.
Speaker 1: So in the episode Smut, the guy uses it to
Speaker 1: rape women in like urban legend, and a little bit
Speaker 1: people use it to like when people come to like
Speaker 1: foreign countries, they'll like blow it in your face and
Speaker 1: then take you to an ATM and make you empty
Speaker 1: out your whole account or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like there's all kinds of ways you can use it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine there's any good reasons that people are
Speaker 3: using scopolamine.
Speaker 1: Well, then here's the thing. So then Rollins goes, isn't
Speaker 1: that for seasickness? And then I look up scopolamine again
Speaker 1: and nothing in my original research said.
Speaker 2: Anything about this.
Speaker 1: But I guess it's used a lot for motion sickness,
Speaker 1: but probably in very small doses. Probably not like you know, like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's I'm sure someone medical or chemistry savvy
Speaker 1: is going to write us and tell us the difference.
Speaker 1: But like, you can use it, I guess for any
Speaker 1: kind of motion sickness. And Melinda says it can also
Speaker 1: be used to treat a few other medical conditions, but
Speaker 1: this girl did not have any of those medical conditions,
Speaker 1: So what's up. I didn't know scopolamine had any valid
Speaker 1: uh uses, but I guess it does. And Finn says, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I've heard of working girls like slipping it to
Speaker 1: their john's and Rollins's like, okay, so maybe someone turned
Speaker 1: the tables on this girl. And then Melinda says there's
Speaker 1: no signs of trauma on her except for abrasions on
Speaker 1: her knees, semen in her mouth and throat and two
Speaker 1: and a half ounces in her stomach.
Speaker 2: It's like a lot of semen to have in your stomach.
Speaker 1: So then Melinda says that nothing about this really makes
Speaker 1: it a definitive homicide, so this could have all been
Speaker 1: like consensual sexual activity. So Melinda goes, it's a cuppy
Speaker 1: and I was. I originally glossed over it, and then
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I googled it. So cuppy stands
Speaker 1: for Circumstances undetermined pending police investigation. So essentially we who knows, Like,
Speaker 1: we don't really know for sure, but more evidence could
Speaker 1: back up or support, like, you know, what's happened to her,
Speaker 1: but we're not sure. The Emmy is like not making
Speaker 1: a you know, determination, whether about it being homicide or not.
Speaker 1: And Rollins is like, yeah, but somebody put her body
Speaker 1: in the pool. And Melinda's like yeah, and that proves nothing.
Speaker 1: It's your job to prove homicide, sweetie. And Rollins is
Speaker 1: giving Melinda shit and Melinda is throwing it right back
Speaker 1: at her. And it truly was not until I started
Speaker 1: doing this podcast that I even clocked that these two
Speaker 1: are enemies, Like these two have a lot of tension.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking, I didn't realize the
Speaker 3: tension went this far back, Like we now covered a
Speaker 3: few episodes where they are not friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, like this is this is season thirteen,
Speaker 1: so this is like first season of Orleans. Maybe Melinda's
Speaker 1: pissed that Maloney's gone. I don't know, it's weird, but
Speaker 1: Finn steps in to be like Melinda, my girl, anyway
Speaker 1: you can help us id this victim. And Melinda's like,
Speaker 1: for you, ice anything, and she's like, this girl had
Speaker 1: breast implants.
Speaker 2: We're tracking the serial number.
Speaker 1: So we finally get a little bit of good news
Speaker 1: and I mean semi good news from Melinda. So now
Speaker 1: we're back at the precinct and Finn is talking to
Speaker 1: one of the cops who was at the party that night,
Speaker 1: like the two guys that answered the noise complaint, and
Speaker 1: he says they responded to the noise complain at two twenty,
Speaker 1: gave a stern warning lol. Second call was at three
Speaker 1: fifty was a woman with a Spanish accent. And then
Speaker 1: they got a third call from Clayton when they were
Speaker 1: en route from the from the three fifty call. And
Speaker 1: then Amarro's talking to the other cop who swears he
Speaker 1: had no he had no idea.
Speaker 2: This was a party for the police commissioner's son.
Speaker 1: And when they talked to Craigan, Amaro's like, these guys
Speaker 1: both sound very rehearsed, like they know, you know, they've
Speaker 1: probably talked to their IAB reps.
Speaker 2: They know what to say.
Speaker 1: Rollins gets a hit on the breast implants and it
Speaker 1: turns out this girl, our victim's name is Maggie Murphy
Speaker 1: and she's from Winnipeg, up in Canada.
Speaker 2: I've been there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I had a therapist from Winnipeg and she
Speaker 1: told me it kind of sucked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just cold. I think I went to the movies.
Speaker 3: I like that you could get mini Cadbury eggs at
Speaker 3: the movie theater. Oh, I went to a bookstore. I
Speaker 3: mean I was doing shows. I actually met up with
Speaker 3: long lost family. That's fun. Yeah, it was fun. And
Speaker 3: there in the audience there was an arm wrestling competition
Speaker 3: and they were wasted. It was like all these people
Speaker 3: from an arm wrestling match came and they were just
Speaker 3: drunk out of their goards. And then this was also
Speaker 3: the place where a man he kept swirling his eyes
Speaker 3: so loudly.
Speaker 2: And I went can you just stop?
Speaker 3: And he stood up and went, you need to shut
Speaker 3: the fuck up in the A yes, and I said
Speaker 3: I have the microphone and it was his birthday and
Speaker 3: I had to wait for all of them to get
Speaker 3: kicked out and they were like so mad, but you
Speaker 3: can't swirl.
Speaker 1: I stop swirling your fucking ice, dude. They bring up
Speaker 1: Winnipeg in the show a lot. Remember in the episode
Speaker 1: about with Stevie Lynn Jones, what was it the episode
Speaker 1: producer's back end, There was a movie called Winnipeg Nights.
Speaker 2: They like Winnipeg on SVU.
Speaker 3: I wonder if someone's from there, because it is like, wait,
Speaker 3: you know who else is from Winnipeg. That episode was
Speaker 3: Steve Howie, the like catfishing in between with the NBA player. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she was on she lived two hours away from Winnipeg.
Speaker 3: But Winnipeg was mentioned again. Yeah, yeah, you're right on
Speaker 3: APEG killing it Winnipeg getting it's mentioned, okay.
Speaker 1: So Live is immediately upset that someone gave us sixteen
Speaker 1: year old fake tits, and Craigan's like, let's focus, like,
Speaker 1: we're not going after Canadian plastic.
Speaker 2: Surgeons right now.
Speaker 1: So we find out that Maggie ran away from foster
Speaker 1: care six months ago and had her checks forwarded to
Speaker 1: an address in Astoria.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that they would do that.
Speaker 1: No roommates at her apartment, No one seems to know
Speaker 1: her around there. I don't really even know how a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old girl finds an apartment in New York.
Speaker 2: It's like not easy.
Speaker 1: So Finn's like, what about this girl with the accent
Speaker 1: who called the police? So then they're like, okay, let's
Speaker 1: look at the footage that they have from the everybody
Speaker 1: fleeing the scene, and it's literally just like a parade
Speaker 1: of these strippers and sex workers just leaving, all holding
Speaker 1: their purses in front of their faces because they know
Speaker 1: exactly where the security cameras are, and like this isn't
Speaker 1: their first rodeo, and they know how to hide their faces,
Speaker 1: so they're getting nothing. The Secret Service agents are protected
Speaker 1: by Homeland Security. The hockey players back in Canada, the
Speaker 1: baseball players are playing a game hungover, and so they're
Speaker 1: kind of feeling like they're a little bit at a
Speaker 1: dead end, and then they realize, oh, wait, if the
Speaker 1: girl's body was moved, Clayton's penthouse is a crime scene.
Speaker 1: Craigan says, go back with csu. It's Sunday. The garbage
Speaker 1: hasn't gone out yet. These guys always have to dig
Speaker 1: through garbage. Liv wants to investigate also the multiple counts
Speaker 1: of statutory rape that happened at the party, but Craigan
Speaker 1: is like, that's up to the DA let's focus on
Speaker 1: the murder. And livis pissed. She's like, this was a
Speaker 1: kid who spent the entire night on her knees. Like
Speaker 1: it doesn't sit well with Olivia, obviously, and then they
Speaker 1: get interrupted when Will Brady walks in with his lawyer.
Speaker 1: His lawyer is unnamed, but he is played by an
Speaker 1: actor named Sam McMurray. He has one hundred and ninety
Speaker 1: eight IMDb credits. I feel like I've seen this man
Speaker 1: in everything I've ever seen. I truly thought he'd been
Speaker 1: on multiple sviews, but this is his only sview and
Speaker 1: his name on the show is Will Brady's attorney, and
Speaker 1: he's been in like Scandal, Breaking, Bad Friends, King of
Speaker 1: Queen's one of my favorite movies of all time, La Story,
Speaker 1: And one of the craziest things I saw when I
Speaker 1: was looking at his IMDb is that he did a
Speaker 1: couple of voices on Law and Order colon Justice Is Served,
Speaker 1: which is a law and order video game that I
Speaker 1: did not know existed, and this guy has done some
Speaker 1: voices on it.
Speaker 2: So anyway, funck, dude, I just met someone who has
Speaker 2: worked looking on an SVU walking Long order walking tour
Speaker 2: in Manhattan, like the sexost City ones and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was at a show I was doing. Shout
Speaker 3: out great idea, Catherine. I think that's her name. Watch,
Speaker 3: I got it right, you should sponsor us on our podcast.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about it. Wait, but I'm looking at this actor,
Speaker 3: oh Christmas vacation.
Speaker 2: I was like, he seems like such an eighties dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I know his vacation is he he's one
Speaker 1: of the co workers with Clark or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like in so many things that we've watched. Oh,
Speaker 2: he's also Simpson's no way and a lot of voiceover.
Speaker 2: I noticed a lot of voiceover, like cool animation voiceover.
Speaker 2: So so they.
Speaker 1: Walk in at the perfect time holding a USB drive
Speaker 1: full of footage of the party and it shows Will's
Speaker 1: activity the entire party, showing that he never was with
Speaker 1: this victim, and so, uh, they start watching the footage
Speaker 1: live looks like very unimpressed. She he doesn't remember seeing
Speaker 1: Maggie with anyone. Will says, she seems sloppy and out
Speaker 1: of it, and I think I think I saw her
Speaker 1: making out with a tall, tan brunette woman. And so
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, we'll go through this footage. What is
Speaker 1: it like four hours? And he's like, more like eight
Speaker 1: hours and he's like, what, you only get married for
Speaker 1: the first time once, and he's trying to be funny,
Speaker 1: but liv is not buying it. Rollin's, Finn, and Tomorrow
Speaker 1: are now gathered around the laptops with snacks and they're
Speaker 1: all looking at footage of this debaucherous bachelor party, and
Speaker 1: Amarro's like, these guys probably think these girls like it,
Speaker 1: like they see them as more than just a payday,
Speaker 1: and Rollin's is like, uh, yeah, men are delusional, we
Speaker 1: know this. And Finn's like, hey, now, don't tell me
Speaker 1: you've never been to a strip club, and Tomorrow's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: on the job, maybe my cousin's bachelor party, but now
Speaker 1: it makes me feel uncomfortable, and Finn starts making fun
Speaker 1: of him, like, oh, are you out there one of
Speaker 1: those guys that says like no thanks on the lap
Speaker 1: dance and tries to tell strippers about their their options
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I just like Finn being funny and
Speaker 1: seizing tomorrow. Well, and we know that Finn loves it,
Speaker 1: loves a strip club. And Amarrow is like, I respect women.
Speaker 1: I have sisters and a daughter, you know, the age
Speaker 1: old argument that's like I'm related to women, so I
Speaker 1: respect them, and that you have to be related to
Speaker 1: them to respect them. And now their little tiff gets
Speaker 1: interrupted when Rollin's finds something and she's now we cut
Speaker 1: to her showing the footage to Live in Captain Craigs,
Speaker 1: and we see Maggie staggering in the background of the party,
Speaker 1: like staggering back to the bedroom. The timestamp is three
Speaker 1: twenty five am, and she's already been doped with a scopolamine.
Speaker 1: She's like heading back to the bedroom to die, Olivia says,
Speaker 1: because like she's all over the place. And honestly, I
Speaker 1: think the Carlton nine when one comes twenty five minutes later.
Speaker 1: So right after this on the footage, we see Clayton
Speaker 1: and this blonde woman making their way back to the bedroom.
Speaker 1: We've already seen this scene, but this is their first
Speaker 1: time seeing it. Amaro busts in to say that they
Speaker 1: found vomit on the sheets that were in Clayton's trash
Speaker 1: and they're going to test it for scapolamine.
Speaker 2: So now they're like, we got to talk to Clayton again.
Speaker 1: He just headed back to the bedroom where this poor
Speaker 1: little girl went to like you know, pass out and die,
Speaker 1: and he must know more than he's saying. And Clayton
Speaker 1: is it turns out it's supposed to be leave that
Speaker 1: day to cover the crisis in North Korea. I didn't
Speaker 1: really know that we went over there. I didn't really
Speaker 1: think we were allowed to go into North Korea, but
Speaker 1: I didn't think they were sending wolf Blitzer over there
Speaker 1: these days.
Speaker 2: But we'll see. Cragan sends them to go get them.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll hold the plane with port authorities. So
Speaker 1: then Live hangs back to talk to Cragan and she's like,
Speaker 1: we can have the case now that Will is cleared,
Speaker 1: Like it's not that high profile now that like, you know,
Speaker 1: the police commissioner's son has been you know, exonerated and
Speaker 1: found that he couldn't be involved. And Craigan's like ONEPP
Speaker 1: wants the DA's office to handle this and lives like, great,
Speaker 1: I'll call my boyfriend Hayden and he'll back us. And
Speaker 1: Craigan's like, girl, stop like digging into this is only
Speaker 1: going to lead to trouble.
Speaker 2: These girls are connected to politicians.
Speaker 1: Das brass like, it just goes a lot deeper than
Speaker 1: just like you know, and he says, we've got to
Speaker 1: play our cards close.
Speaker 2: To the vest.
Speaker 1: So that's the end of act one at too. Clayton
Speaker 1: is now an interrogation with his lawyer. Her name is
Speaker 1: Kendra Gill and she is in New Jersey, Ada, turned
Speaker 1: defense attorney.
Speaker 2: I guess she wanted to make more cash. Baby.
Speaker 1: She is an episode Hot House with Sarah Hiland and
Speaker 1: she's the one who gives her a break so that
Speaker 1: she doesn't go to jail forever. She's like, they're like,
Speaker 1: please go easy on or she's young, and then she
Speaker 1: does and her name is that actress's name is Gretchen
Speaker 1: eGolf and she says Clayton will spill all the tea,
Speaker 1: don't even worry about it, and he says, listen, they're like,
Speaker 1: who helped you get the girl into the pool and
Speaker 1: she's like, he says, there were some diplomats from Middle
Speaker 1: East there and their security guys helped me. And Amorrow
Speaker 1: is like, well, he says, like, I'm telling you guys
Speaker 1: the truth that Tomorrow's like, oh, like you've been doing
Speaker 1: with your whole wet suit mouth to mouth act that
Speaker 1: you told us at the beginning, and he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: that was a bad mood. But she was dead when
Speaker 1: I found her. I didn't call nine one one right
Speaker 1: away because Secret Service had to escort some guests out.
Speaker 2: I also didn't know she was sixteen.
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, at least five of your friends
Speaker 1: had sex with an underage girl at this party, and
Speaker 1: who was with you when you found her? And he
Speaker 1: was like, that was my He tells them that his
Speaker 1: blonde is a friend. She's not an escort, she's a friend,
Speaker 1: and her name is Chris and he doesn't know her
Speaker 1: last name, and Live goes, oh, so a close friend.
Speaker 1: I love that. Like the Olivia shade is so funny
Speaker 1: to me. So next scene, they're bringing in Carissa, telling
Speaker 1: her that once she lawyers up, they cannot help her,
Speaker 1: and she still decides to wait for her lawyer, but
Speaker 1: before then, she makes sure to create a lot of
Speaker 1: sexual tension with Amorrow, and she's flirting, asking for a
Speaker 1: drink and saying she hasn't seen him around, like she
Speaker 1: knows every sex crimes detective in the city, Like do
Speaker 1: you think she knew Stabler?
Speaker 2: Who knows?
Speaker 1: And when she says some water would be great, I
Speaker 1: really hear an Australian accent. So I go to IMDb
Speaker 1: look her up. Her name is Pipa Black and she
Speaker 1: is indeed from Downanda, and she is on the Australian
Speaker 1: soap Neighbors and she's been on it for like seventeen years.
Speaker 1: So I used to watch Neighbors when I went to
Speaker 1: Ireland when I was like eleven, I watched Neighbors all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: Anyway, this girl to me. So there's an Irish comic
Speaker 2: at the cellar now and.
Speaker 3: He introduced himself yesterday. I was like, yeah, we've met.
Speaker 3: He goes, well, I don't know. You seem drunk last
Speaker 3: time I met you. I was like, excuse me, we've
Speaker 3: met and he goes, well, no, I know, but I
Speaker 3: met you. And then the same day, about an hour later,
Speaker 3: you came up and introduced yourself again to me and
Speaker 3: I go, okay, touche.
Speaker 2: I was so pissed, but and you were like, I
Speaker 2: got got.
Speaker 1: Anyway, this girl has like a very Naomi Watts, Nicole
Speaker 1: Kidman had a baby, but kind of generic vibe to me.
Speaker 3: Margo, Robbie. They all do neighbors and they all come
Speaker 3: to America. I was Tony Colat on.
Speaker 2: Neighbors, you know, I like on neighbors. They all love it.
Speaker 2: But anyway, she's like, I haven't seen you around.
Speaker 1: We get a lot of cops on the job, so
Speaker 1: she's just being very upfront that she's like a sex worker.
Speaker 1: And she teases Nick for being mister clean and he's like, actually,
Speaker 1: I'm married, and it's like yeah for about two more minutes.
Speaker 1: Buddy and Carissa immediately like reads in Nick's eyes that
Speaker 1: he's been hurt by his wife and he's keeping it
Speaker 1: bottled up and he needs to release that, like maybe
Speaker 1: fucking her would possibly even things right up, and it's wild.
Speaker 1: She's like, uh, she just feels like she can read
Speaker 1: inside his soul immediately, and then a knock at the
Speaker 1: door breaks the tension, and Craigan's been watching the entire thing,
Speaker 1: pulls Amorrow out and he's like, what's up with you?
Speaker 1: In blondie and he's like, well, witness wants to talk.
Speaker 1: You talk, and he's like, that wasn't about the case tomorrow,
Speaker 1: put your dick back in your pants. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: we got to wait for her lawyer. This all has
Speaker 1: to be by the book. Craigan like knows from the
Speaker 1: get go like this we cannot fuck around with this,
Speaker 1: like no cutting corners because like these are powerful people.
Speaker 1: So the next thing we see is Carissa with her lawyer,
Speaker 1: the legendary Regi Kathy and.
Speaker 2: He is a Liza fave.
Speaker 1: I know him as Freddy from House of Cards, but
Speaker 1: he was also one of the animal smugglers in the
Speaker 1: iconic s View episode Wildlife, which we just covered in Montreal.
Speaker 1: And he is also from the Wire and Oz and
Speaker 1: I didn't know he died in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: That's sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a legend and rest in peace. His
Speaker 1: character is named Barry Querns. And he's telling them that
Speaker 1: Carissa didn't know Maggie and barely saw her that night,
Speaker 1: and she says she knew every girl at the party
Speaker 1: there except for Maggie.
Speaker 2: She's an escort.
Speaker 1: She gets paid to do parties, do dinners and the
Speaker 1: lawyer's like, there's nothing illegal about that. As Tomorrow and
Speaker 1: her give each other like fuck me eyes again, So
Speaker 1: who's your booker? And Big Shock Barry Quorn's is like
Speaker 1: you can talk to him, no problem, I represent him
Speaker 1: as well. So now we are at the apartment of
Speaker 1: Bart Ganzel. I would say one of my favorite side
Speaker 1: characters in SVU. He is this like extremely powerful pimp essentially,
Speaker 1: but who's also a Seinfeld character, right, Like he's so
Speaker 1: like dorky and like he's like a little Jewish man.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's funny. He's very funny to me.
Speaker 1: He's sitting on a couch in like jeans.
Speaker 2: And stackers, George Castanza in like clubber gear. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: black t shirts with gold writing.
Speaker 3: Such bushy and like an emotional soul but a criminal
Speaker 3: bad at it but also good.
Speaker 2: It's it is very twisted and funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he's like in the couch in jeans and sneakers
Speaker 1: and like a button down shirt that's like very open,
Speaker 1: like a lot of chest hair, and all these women
Speaker 1: who work for him are like around him in underwear
Speaker 1: and like he's flirting. They're all flirting with him, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's like he's We're getting the idea he's
Speaker 1: the king. There's like a party underway by the way
Speaker 1: at this apartment. We're at his apartment in Chelsea, and
Speaker 1: Ganzelle is played by Peter Jacobson, who has been in
Speaker 1: tons of shit, like The Americans House.
Speaker 2: He was on for many many years Ray Donovan.
Speaker 1: And what's wild is he played a defense attorney in
Speaker 1: old seasons of Original Recipe, like one season from the
Speaker 1: nineties and some from the early two thousands, and then
Speaker 1: that character crossed over to SVU in season nineteen and
Speaker 1: did like three episodes of season nineteen as this lawyer,
Speaker 1: this defense attorney. And it's kind of nuts because I
Speaker 1: just feel like the Ganzel arc is so memorable to
Speaker 1: me that you know, I know they don't care how
Speaker 1: I feel, but it's just weird to like bring him
Speaker 1: back as a lawyer a few years after he's this
Speaker 1: major pimp in this three episode arc, you know. So anyway,
Speaker 1: Ganzelle's making the rounds at his house and we hear
Speaker 1: a cell phone ring and who picks up the phone
Speaker 1: but Brian Cassidy aka Dean Winters aka Mayhem aka a guest.
Speaker 2: We're desperate to get who keeps eluding us.
Speaker 1: He hangs up the phone, he kisses a girl goodbye,
Speaker 1: tells Ganzel we got to bounce. We got to get
Speaker 1: out of here, And just as they're trying to scurry out,
Speaker 1: this SVU squad arrives, Cassidy and Tomorrow immediately start beefing,
Speaker 1: like Cassidy's like, where's the warrant? And then he Tomorrow's
Speaker 1: like slawyer role and then Cassidy throws a punch at him,
Speaker 1: just fully cold cock Tomorrow in the face, and then
Speaker 1: they haul him and Ganzell both off, so really escalated quickly.
Speaker 1: In interrogation, Cassidy's like with Tomorrow and he's like, sorry, bro,
Speaker 1: I had to make it look real like, so we
Speaker 1: find out quickly Cassidy's undercover. Amorro's standing there icing his
Speaker 1: jaw with an ice pack and he's like, fuck you man, Like,
Speaker 1: there's other ways to do this. I've been undercover before.
Speaker 1: You don't have to like punch people. But we did
Speaker 1: just see an undercover mother. The guy who played the
Speaker 1: guy who's Rollin's baby daddy does the same thing, like
Speaker 1: he like Jaccalyn Murphy, Yeah, Jack Glen Murphy like pistol
Speaker 1: whips Careesi. So you know, Undercovers are wild, and I
Speaker 1: bet watching these two like measure their dicks and fight
Speaker 1: with each other is getting a lot of our listeners
Speaker 1: very horny because I know a lot of people love
Speaker 1: Dean Winters, a lot of people love Tomorrow.
Speaker 2: So this is a scene of these two.
Speaker 1: Guys really yeah, really, you know, trying to have a
Speaker 1: pissing contest. So in walks Benson and she's like, Cassidy,
Speaker 1: you ass and then Cassidy grabs her hand with both
Speaker 1: of his hands, you know, like a cupped shaking of hands,
Speaker 1: and immediately flirts with her, like, looks up and down
Speaker 1: and goes you look good. Like it's immediately there are
Speaker 1: vibes and he's like, look, I've been Undercovered with Ganzel
Speaker 1: for three years. I wasn't going to jeopardize that by like,
Speaker 1: you know, playing nice with you guys. And he doesn't
Speaker 1: know Maggie, and he knows all of Ganzell's girls very well,
Speaker 1: and they're like, maybe Carrissa brought her, And they're like,
Speaker 1: there's no way Carissa brought her.
Speaker 2: Carrisa's the queen Bee. And then he's like, oh, by
Speaker 2: the way, tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I heard you two hit it off, so word travels
Speaker 1: fast that you know, these two have a connect, and
Speaker 1: Liv gets these two to chill out. She's like, listen, Cassidy,
Speaker 1: we need the names of the girls. And he's like,
Speaker 1: go get that from Ganzel. And for me, you got
Speaker 1: to put me in wrikers for the night. Get we
Speaker 1: got to make this look good. And Amarro's like, one
Speaker 1: more thing, you and a Ganzel. We're kind of on
Speaker 1: your way out when we arrived, So did someone tip
Speaker 1: you guys off that we were coming? And Cassidy's like,
Speaker 1: who would do that? And he looks really cocky and
Speaker 1: really menacing, like you kind of can't sell, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: has has Cassidy been undercover too long? Because it seems
Speaker 1: like he's really loving, like hooking up with all these
Speaker 1: sex workers and you know, helping this man run a ring.
Speaker 1: Now we're in with Ganzel and he's being questioned by
Speaker 1: Finn and Rollins and he's like, Maggie is not my girl.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I have no clue how she got
Speaker 1: into the party. And he's asked every escort that he
Speaker 1: sent there that night and they all say that she
Speaker 1: came with Anya solar, but Anya hasn't returned to any
Speaker 1: of his calls, and they're like, describe Anya. She's a
Speaker 1: tall tan brunette, which is how they described the woman
Speaker 1: that you.
Speaker 2: Know, Maggie had been making out with earlier.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, Ganzel also adds that she's hot, and
Speaker 1: Finn's like, well, we got to talk to her, and
Speaker 1: Ganzelle's like, you don't have her, and like then Ganzell
Speaker 1: just goes, oh, man, that just sucks, like he knows
Speaker 1: that probably means this girl is dead, but he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: bomber Man, like it's just funny.
Speaker 2: He has funny reactions to things.
Speaker 1: Next scene, we're getting the scoop on Anya, like we're
Speaker 1: at the precinct.
Speaker 2: She's got a dozen aliases.
Speaker 1: She's from Columbia, she's twenty three, she's been in the
Speaker 1: country on a student visa.
Speaker 2: But oh guess what.
Speaker 1: She went back to Cartagena on Sunday and the doorman
Speaker 1: said she left in a hurry because he remembers everyone.
Speaker 1: And they found the purse she was carrying in the
Speaker 1: party footage, and in it is a bottle of scopolamine
Speaker 1: and it's made out to Anya Brown. So a lot
Speaker 1: of things are coming together here. So they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's the deal? Anya bring Maggie to the party and
Speaker 1: then drugs her. There's like so many easier ways to
Speaker 1: kill someone. And they're like it was to cause a scandal.
Speaker 1: They wanted to hurt Clayton or hurt the commissioner or
Speaker 1: like hurt somebody, because you know, a dead escort at
Speaker 1: a party does not look great for anyone optics wise.
Speaker 1: And Anya was one of Ganzel's girls though, So let's
Speaker 1: go talk to Cassidy about it again. So they go
Speaker 1: see Cassidy at like a dive bar that has strippers
Speaker 1: in it. I really can't tell like where they are, like,
Speaker 1: it's not a strip club.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, is that like Jimbo's or like Jumbo's
Speaker 3: clown Room or whatever in La Yeah, but just or
Speaker 3: where Erica used to work in Jersey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good place where Erica Girardi used
Speaker 1: to work maybe, But even that had more of like
Speaker 1: a strip club vibe like the and Jumbo's has more
Speaker 1: of like a cabaret vibe, Like I don't know, this
Speaker 1: place looked like truly a dive bar where you would
Speaker 1: drink PBRs and then there's just a couple of girls
Speaker 1: shaking their butts.
Speaker 3: Actually across the street from the New Little Field, there's
Speaker 3: like a metally type bar that sometimes will dance on them.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I get it, but yeah, I feel like
Speaker 3: I like that kind of vibe, more more casual.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I would say it doesn't seem like the
Speaker 1: girls are the center of the action there. They're kind
Speaker 1: of just like it's like the way Go go boys
Speaker 1: are at Gabe what bars, kind of like they're not
Speaker 1: You're not there to watch them, but they're just like
Speaker 1: they're dancing and you love it, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they go see him there and he's at they're
Speaker 1: asking about Anya. He's being super cagey. He's saying a
Speaker 1: lot of throaty platitudes.
Speaker 2: Like hookers, never trust him, you know what's going on
Speaker 2: with you, Cassidy?
Speaker 1: And then Carissa arrives, kisses Cassidy on the mouth and
Speaker 1: then tells him the boss misses you, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on with any of these people, what
Speaker 1: the relationships are. He tells Nick, why don't you and
Speaker 1: Carrissa go catch up?
Speaker 2: And he says it in a really funny way. Like,
Speaker 2: I like the way he says it. He goes, why
Speaker 2: don't you two go catch up?
Speaker 1: Like and now now that Nick's out of the way,
Speaker 1: he's like, I'll give Live the info, like this is
Speaker 1: my girl, okay. So he's like, listen, Anya, it was
Speaker 1: one of Delia's Wilson's top girls and then Ganzel stole
Speaker 1: her away.
Speaker 2: Live doesn't know who Delia is.
Speaker 1: Delia is runs a high profile, discreete matchmaking service. She's
Speaker 1: got politicians like really important people bfds. He says, big
Speaker 1: fucking deal. Two ex governors have her on their speed dial.
Speaker 1: Like she's got the high class clientele, and she was
Speaker 1: number one in town until Ganzel moved in, but now
Speaker 1: he's got the hottest girls and she's got the highest
Speaker 1: profile clients. And so they are like fighting feuding so
Speaker 1: over on the other side of the bar, Carisa's back
Speaker 1: to laying it on thick with Amara. She's like, I
Speaker 1: feel like I can tell you anything like I want to.
Speaker 1: It's like really really like hard to listen to. And
Speaker 1: he's like, don't work me, babe, Like amorrow, he's at
Speaker 1: least not fully following for it, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm serious, like I'm around if you want to talk
Speaker 1: or not talk or whatever, and he accuses her of
Speaker 1: trying to bribe a cop, and then she does a
Speaker 1: little bit more psychoanalyzing and says like, I know there's
Speaker 1: things you don't tell your part nerd It's like it's hilarious.
Speaker 1: And then he tries to shame her, like is this
Speaker 1: the life you dreamed of when you were little? And
Speaker 1: she's like, listen, I'm engaged to bart so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be fine, Like I'm gonna have money. And he says,
Speaker 1: Ganzelle's gonna go down eventually, and you're going to go
Speaker 1: down with them, and she's like, do you like saving women?
Speaker 2: Detective?
Speaker 1: Like it's very her dialogue is all very cliche. I
Speaker 1: feel like in this episode Mary Soap opera, very neighbors, Yes,
Speaker 1: very neighbors, and you know they have their that's their
Speaker 1: cute little moment. So then Cassidy back to Cassidy and Live.
Speaker 1: He tells her that two months ago, Delia sent a
Speaker 1: couple goons over to the loft to threaten Ganzel, tell
Speaker 1: him to stop taking girls, stop taking clients. And now
Speaker 1: Ganzel's in the middle of this mess, so why didn't
Speaker 1: Ganzelle say hey, like this could be Delia, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: obviously ganzel wants to go after her himself. Like none
Speaker 1: of these people want the cops involved with any of this.
Speaker 1: They're going to do their own retaliation their own way.
Speaker 1: So Cassidy warns Live be careful. Nobody knows how deep
Speaker 1: Delia's hooked. Go Okay, So, like in when I'm first
Speaker 1: watching this episode, I'm envisioning, like, oh my god, who's Delia,
Speaker 1: Like she must be some the way Live looks when
Speaker 1: she gets dressed up in like a fur coat and says,
Speaker 1: I need I'm from Chicago and I need some girls
Speaker 1: for my party, you know, Like like I think she's
Speaker 1: going to be this like high class, expensive looking madam
Speaker 1: who wears expensive perfume or something. But in the next scene,
Speaker 1: we're on a farm in upstate New York and a
Speaker 1: blonde woman is leading the detectives out back to see
Speaker 1: Delia and telling them that they should have worn boots
Speaker 1: because they're currently walking through mud and shit, And we
Speaker 1: find Delia sitting and bottle feeding a baby goat and
Speaker 1: this is just not what I pictured it of a
Speaker 1: high level madam. She is played by brook Smith, who
Speaker 1: I love. She famously played Catherine Martin, the girl in
Speaker 1: the Well in the Klang Family classic The Silence of
Speaker 1: the Lambs, which you guys all know I bring up
Speaker 1: constantly on this podcast. She's also been in Big Sky
Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy Weeds. Like the woman is constantly working, very talented,
Speaker 1: and she just is like wearing you know, like a
Speaker 1: flannel shirt, sweater and a sweater and like jeans and boots.
Speaker 2: It's like she's not.
Speaker 1: She's no make a yeah, very honest, very farm like
Speaker 1: a woman who owns an organic farm upstate New York.
Speaker 3: And she's like, well, it's like when we met Gusts
Speaker 3: and Breaking Bad, you know, the chicken guy, and we're like, whoa, yeah,
Speaker 3: you don't know where a giant and the crime pin.
Speaker 1: Is true and it's more interesting to sort of make
Speaker 1: it exactly what you're saying, like unexpected.
Speaker 2: So well they.
Speaker 3: Might they have to be if they're the best of
Speaker 3: the best, only like like we also assume.
Speaker 2: She's better than Genzel. Yeah, but it's all.
Speaker 3: He's competing with her, but she's not competing with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you also put a target on your back
Speaker 1: when you're like riding around in an escalade with like
Speaker 1: all the fancy shit and like eating at fancy restaurants.
Speaker 1: Like I think, if you lay low, you can just
Speaker 1: enjoy your accent, your your assets that you've hidden in
Speaker 1: offshore bank accounts. So anyway, she is sitting there feeding
Speaker 1: this cute little goat and the detectives ask her about
Speaker 1: Anya and Maggie and she's like, no, not ringing any bell.
Speaker 2: She plays it so casual. She seems like actually.
Speaker 1: Very confused about the line of questioning, like what's what's up,
Speaker 1: what's this about? And then they're like, tell us about
Speaker 1: your relationship with bart Ganzell and she's like, there is
Speaker 1: no relationship. I've heard of him, Like she's really downplaying it,
Speaker 1: like he's kind of inconsequential in my life. I don't care.
Speaker 1: And she's like, look, I'm a mother of three. Between
Speaker 1: taking care of them and my husband and the farm,
Speaker 1: I barely have a moment to myself. And she like
Speaker 1: she plays the juggling at all woman card to Benson.
Speaker 1: She's like, you can relate, detective, and then uh, when
Speaker 1: they call it, they're like, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: You have time to run an escort agency.
Speaker 1: She's like it's a matchmaking service, and it's a hobby,
Speaker 1: a mere side hustle.
Speaker 2: It's not a big part of my life.
Speaker 1: And she's playing dumb saying she's never met Ganzell, she
Speaker 1: doesn't even know anything about the poaching of girls or
Speaker 1: any of this, and she's so straight faced. She's just like, sorry,
Speaker 1: I've got nothing for you, Like ganze E seems like
Speaker 1: a criminal, but I'm sorry you came all this way
Speaker 1: for nothing. Like she's truly stonewalling them in a great,
Speaker 1: great performance, And in the next scene lives updating Craigan
Speaker 1: and she's.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't buy the Sunnybrook Farm act.
Speaker 1: She thinks Maggie was a full declaration of war from
Speaker 1: Delia to bart And and Craigin's like this woman like
Speaker 1: teaches Sunday school, she drives her kids to soccer games,
Speaker 1: like if she's a notorious like Madam, then it's it's
Speaker 1: honestly quite a front. And Weiss turns out investigated her
Speaker 1: for five years. Lives like, I'm trying to get the file,
Speaker 1: and Craigan's like, yeah, they didn't find anything. Why do
Speaker 1: you think, like you're not gonna find anything in the files?
Speaker 1: They never find anything. Why do you think she's never
Speaker 1: been prosecuted and lives like, so you want me to
Speaker 1: drop a good lead, and Craigan hands her an envelope
Speaker 1: that was slid under his apartment door, and it is
Speaker 1: a photo of him from the Russian Bride's episode, which
Speaker 1: if you can remember, they send Craigan undercover with this
Speaker 1: sex worker named Lena and they're all canoodling at the
Speaker 1: restaurant and there's photos of these are photos of that,
Speaker 1: and he's undercover and Benson's like, this is totally legit,
Speaker 1: and He's like yeah, but taken out of context, it
Speaker 1: looks really bad. So Daddy Craigan says he's going to
Speaker 1: have to recuse himself and SVU from this case, and
Speaker 1: liv is like upset that this is going to get
Speaker 1: kicked to one PP when they could be the ones
Speaker 1: who lead these photos in the first place. And then
Speaker 1: they get interrupted, as every single scene in the show
Speaker 1: ends with someone coming in and going, we got something,
Speaker 1: so something has gone down.
Speaker 2: The next scene, we're.
Speaker 1: At the Fifth Avenue office of the former Governor Harrison Fletcher,
Speaker 1: and the former governor was apparently they're late working on
Speaker 1: his memoir with his assistant and had a heart attack,
Speaker 1: So why do we call SVU? The guy there goes,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm no expert, but the guy's pants are
Speaker 1: unzipped and they're on backwards. So then they pan to
Speaker 1: the victim and it's this old man sitting upright on
Speaker 1: like a fancy leather couch, eyes wide open, like not
Speaker 1: even slumped, just as if he were alive but dead.
Speaker 2: And yeah, answer on backwards. So that's fucked.
Speaker 1: And I guess now Delia only has one former governor
Speaker 1: to be on their speed dial.
Speaker 2: So that's the end of act three.
Speaker 1: And at the top of act four, the assistant is
Speaker 1: telling Rollins and Finn, we were editing chapter seven of
Speaker 1: his book and he just keeled over. She's not very
Speaker 1: good with the details of this woman. She seems very flustered.
Speaker 1: They ask about the backward pants and she immediately admits everything.
Speaker 2: That the governor was actually getting a.
Speaker 1: Massage when he died, and that his aid called her
Speaker 1: over and that's when they met, and they dressed him
Speaker 1: because he was Nudi judy on the couch and they
Speaker 1: did not want his wife and kids to find out
Speaker 1: that he died getting a happy ending, as Finn says,
Speaker 1: and then she points them to the rolodex and is like,
Speaker 1: the messuse's contact is in there.
Speaker 2: And then Finn really shades.
Speaker 1: The assistant after she leaves and goes, oh, man, that
Speaker 1: makes me feel better, knowing that the assistant's face isn't
Speaker 1: the last one he saw before he died.
Speaker 2: It's like, Finn, don't be mean to this one. I
Speaker 2: miss that. I miss that. He says, like, oh, I
Speaker 2: hate to think that was the last phase he saw
Speaker 2: before he died.
Speaker 1: I was like, shit, it's like just this like little frumpy,
Speaker 1: little assistant woman. Anyway, Melinda, with the scoop as always,
Speaker 1: tells us that this guy did not really die. He
Speaker 1: did die of a heart attack, but it was not
Speaker 1: because of low blood blood pressure. He had heart meds
Speaker 1: in a system alcohol as well as two hundred milligrams
Speaker 1: of Viagara, which is four times the dosage, plus eight
Speaker 1: milligrams of She's back scopolamine. So it was murder. But
Speaker 1: why would Delia kill a client? This must be ganza
Speaker 1: a murder what But was it murder?
Speaker 2: But was it murder? So why would Delia kill a client?
Speaker 1: This must be Ganzell striking back at Telia. So they
Speaker 1: bring them a sus into interrogation.
Speaker 2: So funny.
Speaker 3: It's like they're getting back at each other, but everyone
Speaker 3: else is getting murdered. Like it's not even like their
Speaker 3: properties damaged, kill one of the it's like they're just
Speaker 3: killing the governor, like what the fuck?
Speaker 1: And like sixteen year old girls who ran away from
Speaker 1: foster care, Like I think, I don't know. These are
Speaker 1: bad people truly, but they bring this messuse into interrogation.
Speaker 1: She says she didn't kill him. She sees him every week,
Speaker 1: twice a week. She knows that he is on heart medication,
Speaker 1: he's not allowed to take Viagara all that stuff. Rollins
Speaker 1: is like, we could support you back to Japan, and
Speaker 1: she's like, no, listen. When I got there, he was dead.
Speaker 1: He was lying on the couch, not moving or breathing,
Speaker 1: and he was naked. She was afraid to call nine
Speaker 1: one one, so she called Iris. Iris is her booker
Speaker 1: at the agency, and she told her get out of there,
Speaker 1: so the Messuse left. She was like, he was a
Speaker 1: very nice man, very generous and very quick.
Speaker 2: You know, that's the best you can ask for, I think.
Speaker 1: And now they're questioning Iris, and this is the woman
Speaker 1: who was walking the detectives back to meet Delia at
Speaker 1: the farm. This is the blonde woman and her name
Speaker 1: is This actress's name is Amy Hargraves, and she actually
Speaker 1: played Carrie Matheson's sister on Homeland, and she was the
Speaker 1: main dude's mom in Thirteen Reasons Why I knew I
Speaker 1: reck a nicer from a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 2: But she's she's worked on a bunch of.
Speaker 1: Things, and those are just two that I remember, and
Speaker 1: she confirms the Messusa story. She's like, listen, I told
Speaker 1: her to leave, and then I called the Governor's aid
Speaker 1: right away, and Iris said she didn't know anything about
Speaker 1: the drugs that killed the governor and lives like, you've
Speaker 1: got two daughters, right like, if you don't like start
Speaker 1: helping us out, you're going to be they're going to
Speaker 1: be teenagers before you get out of jail. And then
Speaker 1: Daddy Cragan walks in, followed by defense attorney Marvin Exley
Speaker 1: played by Ron Rifkin.
Speaker 2: A legend.
Speaker 1: He's played this character Marvin Exley in seven s VU episodes,
Speaker 1: so we've seen him before. I think he was in
Speaker 1: producers back end.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was in producers back end. And he tells
Speaker 3: me you gotta be rich to work with Marvin Xley.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: He tells Iris to shut the fuck up, and Live says,
Speaker 1: you should help yourself, and he's like, I think she's
Speaker 1: going to be quiet, right Iris, And Iris is like, nah,
Speaker 1: fuck this, I'm not going down for this.
Speaker 2: I'll talk to the detectives by myself, which I think
Speaker 2: that's a big mistake, mistake, you know. But she thinks
Speaker 2: that they're.
Speaker 3: Gonna die, like your daughters will be killed or you
Speaker 3: will be killed, Like why are you fucking with them?
Speaker 2: And also they like have nothing on you. You weren't the.
Speaker 1: Scene, like they don't really have.
Speaker 2: Anything on you. Iris, Like it's kind of I know,
Speaker 2: Livia is telling.
Speaker 1: You you're going to s Yeah, I don't know. So
Speaker 1: the next thing we see are a ton of cops
Speaker 1: rolling up on Sunnybrook Farm. Marvin Xley's already there, He's
Speaker 1: beaten them there. They arrest her. She says, I make
Speaker 1: fresh goat cheese and help people find love. There's no
Speaker 1: crime here, and Axley says one of Ganzel's whores must
Speaker 1: have killed the governor, and Live says, great, do you
Speaker 1: have any evidence of that? And then at arraignment, We've
Speaker 1: got Ada Rose Callier, who is played by Tabitha Hulbert,
Speaker 1: and she is like an EIGHTA that we haven't really
Speaker 1: talked about before. She is sprinkled a little bit throughout
Speaker 1: season thirteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen, but she's usually
Speaker 1: just in like one to two episodes per season, so
Speaker 1: I think we haven't really gotten a sense of her yet.
Speaker 1: But she is one of the eighty as, and she's like,
Speaker 1: your honor, we have evidence that this is a madam
Speaker 1: who's been running a prostitution ring for a decade, and
Speaker 1: Exley's arguing she's a farmer and a mom and a matchmaker.
Speaker 1: She has no assets, and then the Ada is like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: all the assets are overseas in Anguela in accounts that
Speaker 1: Marvin Exley helped to set up. So actually we're asking
Speaker 1: that he be dismissed his counsel, and Marvin Exley's like,
Speaker 1: this is a witch hunt, which Republicans love to talk about.
Speaker 1: And then the judge sets the bail at two million dollars,
Speaker 1: which you immediately get the sense that that's not going
Speaker 1: to be that hard for Delia. But she gets out
Speaker 1: on bail immediately her lawyer put his own townhouse up
Speaker 1: up for collateral to bail her out, and Exley walks
Speaker 1: over and goes, yeah, I put my townhouse up. We're
Speaker 1: wor old pals, and you guys do not get how
Speaker 1: deep this shit runs.
Speaker 2: She's avoided arrest for ten years. How do you think
Speaker 2: she did that?
Speaker 1: She's got the goods on all your bosses, your future bosses,
Speaker 1: everyone at the top. And he's like, oh, Like he's like,
Speaker 1: live you think you and your pal Hayden are going
Speaker 1: to stop her? You're in over your head and he's like,
Speaker 1: my expert advice is walk away, little people, okay, And
Speaker 1: from Ron Rifkin you kind of believe it, like he's
Speaker 1: really I'm scared. Amorrow is like back off, dude, and
Speaker 1: Nextuley goes, you think your marriage is rocky, Now wait
Speaker 1: till the missus hears about your little relationship with the
Speaker 1: star witness. So it's like everyone in town knows about
Speaker 1: Carissa and Tomorrow flirting with each other. And then he's
Speaker 1: just kind of like mic drop Rifkin out.
Speaker 2: He just walks away.
Speaker 1: Craigan's like, uh, yeah, Wemorrow, is there anything you want
Speaker 1: to tell me? And Tomorrow's like, nope, we're good. And
Speaker 1: then outside the precinct at night, Amorrow's walking to his car,
Speaker 1: it seems when he gets approached by Carrissa, she looks scared.
Speaker 1: He's like, let's go inside, but she looks so nervous.
Speaker 1: She's like, if I tell you what I know about
Speaker 1: the Governor's death, can you protect me. She thinks she's
Speaker 1: the next casualty in this war between Delia and Ganzell.
Speaker 1: And he says he can protect her, but like, let's
Speaker 1: go inside, and she's like she gets all freaked out
Speaker 1: and goes, no, no, no, this was a mistake and run
Speaker 1: starts to run off, and Nick's like, first, let me
Speaker 1: give you my business card, and he's like, call me
Speaker 1: if you need me, so you know what's going on.
Speaker 1: The final scene of the show, we see a close
Speaker 1: up of a vodka bottle on a nightstand and then
Speaker 1: shockingly pan over to find Daddy Kragan walk waking up confused. Now,
Speaker 1: if you don't remember, he's a recovering alcoholic. He does
Speaker 1: not drink. Why is there a vodka bottle on his nightstand?
Speaker 1: He immediately sees blood on his own hand. He sees
Speaker 1: a woman's arm coming out from underneath the covers. He
Speaker 1: pulls back the comforter and done done. It's fucking Carissa
Speaker 1: lying in her bed with her throat slit dead. Daddy
Speaker 1: Kragan is shaking in his Haines white tank top. And
Speaker 1: that is Dick Wolf baby. A wild episode. And this
Speaker 1: is the season thirteen finale. Season fourteen opens with a
Speaker 1: two parter called Lost Reputation and Above Suspicion. And we
Speaker 1: will be covering one of those episodes in the future,
Speaker 1: so do not worry.
Speaker 2: We will get back there.
Speaker 3: I remember this, like this finale shook my life, Like
Speaker 3: I remember this being like what off?
Speaker 2: Fuck? Like I couldn't what. Yeah?
Speaker 3: Great, Yeah, television, you used to have to make you
Speaker 3: like want more at the end of the summer to
Speaker 3: come back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like and they made you.
Speaker 1: Wait, it's a full Godfather reference, like leaving a horse
Speaker 1: head in someone's bed, like leaving a dead sex worker
Speaker 1: who's like the star of the investigation, who also is
Speaker 1: engaged to one of these king pimps. Right, Like it's wild.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's all for Carissa. We'll be back with
Speaker 1: We'll be back with them crime.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: So this is you know, there's obviously layers and layers
Speaker 3: of crimes. Are just gonna focus on one. It's the
Speaker 3: Greg Calli rape allegation. Now, Kara, do.
Speaker 2: You remember this happening while you were here in New York? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, because Greg Kelly it used to be on like
Speaker 1: I think, like Fox's Morning show locally in New York
Speaker 1: with Rosanna Scatto, and she's very like personable and lovable.
Speaker 1: He's like a full idiot, like he would constantly be
Speaker 1: on the Soup. The Soup would always show clips of
Speaker 1: Greg Kelly because he would just always say stupid shit
Speaker 1: or like stuff that was seemed like pervy or I
Speaker 1: don't know, like he just this did not like surprise
Speaker 1: me when I heard it. I think what surprised me
Speaker 1: was I didn't know how connected he was. So why
Speaker 1: I'll let you get into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So Greg Kelly, like Kara said, is a local TV anchor.
Speaker 2: And who is he though? He is the son of.
Speaker 3: The police commissioner at the time, So that's Raymond W.
Speaker 2: Kelly. So we have a.
Speaker 3: Police commissioner's son who's a reporter. I think you can
Speaker 3: see the direct link to the episode.
Speaker 1: Unless he's like Clayton, he's like Clayton and will Brady
Speaker 1: combined into one care like they separated them as characters
Speaker 1: for this.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, he is still working.
Speaker 3: But on his own show on Newsmax Network that's whatever.
Speaker 2: That's right wing, that's oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so says he's a radio host and podcast or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I went on his Twitter and he's a very
Speaker 3: big a Hunter Biden laptop guy. Yeah that says big
Speaker 3: thing and what I always am, Like, Okay, let's say
Speaker 3: this Hunter Biden sucks. He has no power, he's not
Speaker 3: in the government. Yeah, like who cares, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, Like, he's not working. I just don't understand
Speaker 3: who he has to be good for. Like I don't
Speaker 3: understand why his laptop is important. He doesn't work. He's
Speaker 3: just like a kokehead son. Like I don't get it.
Speaker 2: I know it.
Speaker 1: They all think that he's involved with like all this
Speaker 1: government corruption and stuff. It's like it's wild. It's like,
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to get a look at Eric
Speaker 1: Trump's laptop.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to know what the fuck is on there.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so once you see yeah Hunter Biden stuff,
Speaker 3: you know he's wild. He reposts and loves Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 3: He's had Eric Trump as a guest on his show.
Speaker 3: He called the rate of mar A Lago a legal atrocity.
Speaker 3: So this is this guy, Okay, yeah, so unfavorable to
Speaker 3: us immediately at the time of the case though, he
Speaker 3: was an anchor on Good Day New York on Channel
Speaker 3: five and a former New York one political reporter, and
Speaker 3: he has other credits and like the military and stuff.
Speaker 3: But this BuzzFeed news thing included the soup. It's like,
Speaker 3: this guy is such a laughing stock, like they were,
Speaker 3: Like he's most known from his often being on the soup.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I didn't watch Good Day New York.
Speaker 1: I just knew everything about them from the soup, like.
Speaker 2: All the time.
Speaker 3: So he was accused of raping a young woman in
Speaker 3: Lower Manhattan in October twenty eleven. There was obviously a
Speaker 3: conflict of interest from the police department to investigate the
Speaker 3: sexual assault accusation since it was the commissioner's son, so
Speaker 3: the case was handed over to the office of the
Speaker 3: District Attorney, Cyrus R.
Speaker 2: Vance Junior.
Speaker 3: He of course denied the accusation, but the woman was
Speaker 3: in her late Can you imagine someone being like I
Speaker 3: did do it. I did do it. Yeah, So where
Speaker 3: do we go from here? I have never never seen that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the woman was in her late twenties early thirties.
Speaker 3: She was twenty nine and a paralegal, but the media
Speaker 3: kept describing her as an aspiring model actress. But like
Speaker 3: she kind of dabbled and she was a paralegal. Like,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of spin in this case. It's really
Speaker 3: frustrating because he's so connected that you don't like, within
Speaker 3: the media and the police, you really don't know the
Speaker 3: truth and the spin that's really happens.
Speaker 2: A lot of shady stuff happens.
Speaker 1: It's such a spin because paralegal makes it seem like
Speaker 1: this woman knows the difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex,
Speaker 1: and aspiring model actress makes people think this is a
Speaker 1: woman who will do anything to get famous, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's yeah.
Speaker 3: So she walked into the thirteenth Precinct station house with
Speaker 3: her sister on Tuesday after eight pm in.
Speaker 2: January twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: The attack did happen in October, this is January.
Speaker 2: It took her a while to disclose.
Speaker 3: She said that she met Kellyana the street and the
Speaker 3: two went to the South Street Seaport for drinks on
Speaker 3: October eighth, and then went to her office and to
Speaker 3: her downtown law firm, and that's where she told police
Speaker 3: the rape occurred. So this is from the New York Times,
Speaker 3: and it's tied in with the police like all of that.
Speaker 3: It's really a hard time reading the spin or like
Speaker 3: you know, seeing the article for what it is because
Speaker 3: of all these connections. So the article claimed that she
Speaker 3: later told her boyfriend about the night, and he became
Speaker 3: angry and approached the police commissioner at a public event
Speaker 3: and told him that his son sexually assaulted his girlfriend.
Speaker 3: And so you know that's they use that to spin
Speaker 3: it as like she actually just cheated on her boyfriend
Speaker 3: and he got mad, so she cried rape. So that's
Speaker 3: like their big kind of story. But the commissioner confirms
Speaker 3: this interaction. And so the boyfriend told him that his
Speaker 3: son had ruined his girlfriend's life, and the commissioner told.
Speaker 2: Him, why don't you go write a letter?
Speaker 3: Wow, So basically he was running on the secret, like
Speaker 3: he was like outside and he saw the commissioner doing
Speaker 3: some sort of speech. Event I get in more details
Speaker 3: about it, but like approached while he was on his run.
Speaker 2: He was like, I gotta take my shot.
Speaker 3: If I don't take my shot, I'm going to regret
Speaker 3: it forever and was like your son, And the commissioner
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 2: Why don't you write a letter? And that was that.
Speaker 2: So they both confirmed that that interaction.
Speaker 3: Did happen, but the charges were eventually dropped and never
Speaker 3: went forward. But sixteen days after she reported it, her
Speaker 3: picture was on the front page of The New York
Speaker 3: Post with the headline shady lady.
Speaker 1: This is why the New York Post is like the
Speaker 1: most disgusting publication.
Speaker 3: So February twenty twelve, the DA Sex Crimes Unit chief
Speaker 3: sent a letter to Kelly's lawyer declaring her office's investigation
Speaker 3: found no criminal charges were appropriate, and right after that,
Speaker 3: the Post dropped its identity protection so early in the case,
Speaker 3: no outlets named her, following a long accepted media standard
Speaker 3: in protecting the identities of sex crime victims unless they
Speaker 3: publicly come forward.
Speaker 2: So it was secret, secret, secret, and.
Speaker 3: Then it's like immediately charges dropped and her faces everywhere
Speaker 3: and like smearing her and what a liar she is.
Speaker 2: So that's pretty fucked.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't even just the post like immediately it happened.
Speaker 3: So two years later, this woman, finally, Maria de Toro,
Speaker 3: the accuser, went public for the first time to BuzzFeed News.
Speaker 2: So that is in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 3: So from twenty twelve to then, she didn't really say anything,
Speaker 3: but this is when she decided to talk, and she
Speaker 3: says the you know how the tabloids eventually moved on,
Speaker 3: but she didn't know how to move on, like you know,
Speaker 3: she was just like this salacious tale, but like she
Speaker 3: had to deal with this like trauma for a long time.
Speaker 3: She was scared into submission, she said, and she couldn't
Speaker 3: say anything to the press because her statement to the
Speaker 3: police was twisted, and so she was scared of what
Speaker 3: happened again if she did an interview, Like you know,
Speaker 3: she just didn't feel like her words were being taken
Speaker 3: at face value and like used as such, and with
Speaker 3: all the connections, she was right to be suspicious of everything.
Speaker 3: Like the DA's office denied Buzzfeeds freedom of information law
Speaker 3: request for De Toro's report, which is sealed, and de
Speaker 3: Toro was also denied a request to obtain her own records.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, So I don't.
Speaker 3: Really know how, but if it's like I guess, if
Speaker 3: this law is really should be.
Speaker 2: But yeah, everything is sealed, you cannot see anything.
Speaker 3: Yet some of the information was leaked into the press
Speaker 3: in the early twenty twelve. So she said that they
Speaker 3: met on Third Avenue when she was walking her dog
Speaker 3: and she recognized him and they chatted and he asked
Speaker 3: for her phone number and she did give it, so
Speaker 3: she told her sister, and her sister had posted that
Speaker 3: he asked for her phone number on Facebook. So then
Speaker 3: they texted, and then the next Friday, he called her
Speaker 3: at her office and asked what her favorite sexual position was.
Speaker 3: So the text, she said, became more casual, trusting, and
Speaker 3: consensually explicit. The next day, on October eighth, de Toro
Speaker 3: told Kelly she was going to her office on Wall
Speaker 3: Street around noon to finish up some work, and he
Speaker 3: allegedly suggested meeting up when she was done. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so everyone said, yes, we're meeting up. She told her
Speaker 3: boyfriend of three years that she was getting drinks with
Speaker 3: a girlfriend. So obviously you can see the messiness of
Speaker 3: this case investigation.
Speaker 2: So they met up and headed towards the seaport.
Speaker 3: So she claims that they both knew that they were
Speaker 3: both dating other people, and that she had told him
Speaker 3: that like nothing is going to happen between them, and
Speaker 3: they chatted about that as they walked and talked to
Speaker 3: get drinks at Jeremy's alehouse. The convo over drinks got
Speaker 3: more explicit sexual and filled with admissions of fetishes and
Speaker 3: sexual experiences.
Speaker 2: She says.
Speaker 3: After taking a few SIPs of her third drink, she
Speaker 3: said she felt like suddenly, like super strongly impaired, and
Speaker 3: they left the bar and her memor became just clips
Speaker 3: and visions and a blur, and she said it was
Speaker 3: fucked like she only had two drinks, like she wouldn't
Speaker 3: be this messed up, and like she couldn't.
Speaker 1: Even damn finish her third drink. She threw feet her
Speaker 1: two Jesus.
Speaker 3: That she was just like really fucked up, and he
Speaker 3: started kissing her, and she remembered like seeing his bare shoulders,
Speaker 3: blurred face, and just not being able to move her
Speaker 3: body or have control over it. And then he sat
Speaker 3: up on a chair and asked her if she was
Speaker 3: on the pill, and like she remembers waking up alone,
Speaker 3: rolling over and vomiting and this is all at her job,
Speaker 3: and then her bra was unhooked but on, and she
Speaker 3: just kept puking and puking and trying to clean up
Speaker 3: her office. She doesn't even remember how she got back
Speaker 3: to her apartment. Eventually, she disclosed this to her boyfriend
Speaker 3: and sister and mom, and she said after she explained
Speaker 3: it to her sister, the sister was like, wait, so
Speaker 3: he raped you, and same with her boyfriend, so she
Speaker 3: wasn't really ready to admit it to herself what happened,
Speaker 3: but anyone that she told the story to was like,
Speaker 3: you fucking got right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So then Kelly called her and they discussed how drunk
Speaker 3: they were, and when she said she didn't remember anything,
Speaker 3: he filled her in about really graphic details and said
Speaker 3: that he was trying to put his dick in her
Speaker 3: throat and she wasn't having any of it, And when
Speaker 3: she asked if you put anything in her drink, he
Speaker 3: said he was uncomfortable with her questions and did not
Speaker 3: like where the conversation was going. But she didn't understand
Speaker 3: how only after two drinks she was unable to remember
Speaker 3: anything and not even how she got home. So then
Speaker 3: what I talked about earlier about the boyfriend and the
Speaker 3: commissioner interacting.
Speaker 2: That happened on.
Speaker 3: Thursday, October thirteenth, so like five days after and so
Speaker 3: the boyfriend was out for a run, like I said,
Speaker 3: came across Ray Kelly giving a speech at a police
Speaker 3: memorial on the Hudson River, and he's like, if I
Speaker 3: don't do this now, I won't ever forget myself. And
Speaker 3: so he confirmed the letter's suggestion, but instead both he
Speaker 3: and Rhea started texting Kelly, and Kelly stopped responding fully.
Speaker 3: And then Dundune, on Halloween, she discovers she's pregnant and
Speaker 3: her boyfriend had a vasectomy, so now she's pregnant with
Speaker 3: this lunatics baby. She kept trying to keep him in
Speaker 3: the loop and Kelly did not respond and he's smarter
Speaker 3: than that. I'm sorry, he's not going to be responding
Speaker 3: to your team. Yeah, just like come on.
Speaker 2: So she ended up.
Speaker 3: She did get an abortion, but she kept trying to
Speaker 3: include Kelly and was like, I'm at the clinic, blah blah.
Speaker 3: Kelly just like stopped responding to anything ever again. But
Speaker 3: she did get an abortion, and then not until January
Speaker 3: twenty fourth did she report the crime, and she had
Speaker 3: to repeat her story five times as she was like
Speaker 3: passed around to all the departments, so and then like
Speaker 3: all and then the press just like had at her,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, they really had at her,
Speaker 3: and they built up Kelly and then maybe they're all friends,
Speaker 3: but they were just saying, what a great dude he is.
Speaker 3: Like one of the reasons a lot of his colleagues
Speaker 3: did not believe that this he could have done this
Speaker 3: was because he was pissed and Grille die cy vance
Speaker 3: about why he dropped the charges against Dominique strass Cohn
Speaker 3: And this is hopefully a case we'll cover in the future,
Speaker 3: but he is the former International Monetary fun chief accused
Speaker 3: of rape in May twenty eleven.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and then they did an SVU episode on
Speaker 1: it called Scorched Earth that we will definitely cover at
Speaker 1: some point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is a case you remember living in
Speaker 2: New York as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're acting like because he was convinced that
Speaker 1: Dominique straus Khan was guilty, there's no way he could
Speaker 1: have essentially done the same thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he was like pissed that the DA dropped
Speaker 3: it and that they weren't doing hard enough and so
Speaker 3: that is all of their evidence to be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: he got mad at this rapist.
Speaker 2: Why would he rape? So yeah, it's like, yeah, their thing.
Speaker 3: Then, as I said above, On February seventh, no criminal
Speaker 3: charges would be pursued, was announced by Martha Bashford, chief
Speaker 3: of the DA Sex Crimes Unit. Now Linda Fairstein, who
Speaker 3: has served as the DA's Sex Crimes Unit chief for
Speaker 3: twenty six years until retiring in two thousand and two,
Speaker 3: was actually on the a member of the board of
Speaker 3: Murushko Hargate's Joyful Heart Foundation, and she is known for
Speaker 3: prosecuting the nineteen eighty nine Central Park jogger rape case,
Speaker 3: in which five men were imprisoned for years, only to
Speaker 3: be exonerated in two thousand and two, which is right
Speaker 3: when she retired.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that seems like they're connected.
Speaker 3: But she said there wasn't any signs of inability to
Speaker 3: say no, how.
Speaker 2: Do you know that? How would she know that?
Speaker 3: So the evidence for that is that she signed the
Speaker 3: receipt at the bar, and there's a video of her
Speaker 3: walking on her own two feet.
Speaker 2: But hello scopolaman.
Speaker 3: But because she was able to sign the receipt and
Speaker 3: the newscaster guy was quoted being like our tab was
Speaker 3: so cheap, Like she's out of her mind, Like he
Speaker 3: was just like that was in like a throwaway drink
Speaker 3: and meant nothing like it was just like so cheap.
Speaker 2: What do you mean you got wasted?
Speaker 3: But I'm really thinking there is like hardcore scoopolamine vibes here.
Speaker 3: So basically they're saying if she walked from the bar
Speaker 3: to the office building and paid the bill, like that's
Speaker 3: what this prosecutor is using to measure impairment or not.
Speaker 2: And so she couldn't prove that. She couldn't say no, And.
Speaker 1: It's like, what would she What does she get out
Speaker 1: of this? What does she get out of if she
Speaker 1: made it up? If she let's say, she got drunk,
Speaker 1: had sex with Greg, Kelly, felt bad, she cheated, her boyfriend,
Speaker 1: wakes up the next day and then goes to the
Speaker 1: like decides two months later to tell the police to
Speaker 1: blow up her life, Like it just does not make
Speaker 1: sense why you would do it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because her boyfriend already was like gonna keep staying
Speaker 3: with her, you know what I mean? Like I and
Speaker 3: from far I know they they have stayed together. And
Speaker 3: the also like since there were text messages after and
Speaker 3: like between them, and those were also and like the
Speaker 3: night of it, so those were kind of used to
Speaker 3: drop the case as well, since they had communication after
Speaker 3: the assaults. But Firestine said, it's still fucked up, like
Speaker 3: with the papers and the.
Speaker 2: Press and stuff.
Speaker 3: So she at least is like, yeah, what happened with
Speaker 3: the press is really messed up.
Speaker 2: But chargers were dropped.
Speaker 3: She was all over like that she's like a lying,
Speaker 3: shady person. And and he but he didn't go back.
Speaker 3: I mean he's not at a respectable news place anymore,
Speaker 3: but he is working and nothing really happened to him.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's just kind of like what happens I
Speaker 3: guess in the episode, it's like these people will get
Speaker 3: away with doing shady stuff, and you know, we're so
Speaker 3: focused on like legal not this and like all these
Speaker 3: details of like consent and not and it's like these
Speaker 3: are obviously people who don't like believe in the autonomy
Speaker 3: or freedom of women, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like that party scene was gross to.
Speaker 1: Watch, yeah for sure, Yeah, and they that, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just don't understand when you consider what her motive would be,
Speaker 1: like what would be anyone's motive to tell this story
Speaker 1: about how they vomited all over the place they.
Speaker 3: I think the their spin is that she's just trying
Speaker 3: to like for her boyfriend not to be mad at her.
Speaker 1: This is a famous person, like you know, this is
Speaker 1: there's gonna be press about this.
Speaker 2: This is a famous person.
Speaker 1: She might like she knows he's related to the police
Speaker 1: commissioner too, So it's like she took a huge risk
Speaker 1: to go to the cop.
Speaker 3: But even like while reading a lot of the stuff,
Speaker 3: I was like, she's lying, Like it is like the
Speaker 3: spin is real, you know what I mean, and it
Speaker 3: is really fucked. That's why, Like while reading the Times
Speaker 3: articles and stuff, I'm like, I don't love the way
Speaker 3: they're spinning shit.
Speaker 1: If she if she went to him Greg Kelly and
Speaker 1: said I'm gonna go to the cops if you don't
Speaker 1: give me ten thousand dollars, Okay, then I see that.
Speaker 2: But she's not asking for money.
Speaker 1: She's asking you know, like she It's just crazy, like
Speaker 1: to me to think that all these people that think
Speaker 1: that women are like making up rape charges just to
Speaker 1: like fucking spike men or like make sure yet to
Speaker 1: destroy men, because that's what art, you know, like fucking nuts. Anyway,
Speaker 1: thank you for the breakdown, because you know what, I
Speaker 1: didn't know a lot of that. I didn't know about
Speaker 1: the pregnancy. I think I just knew generally, and I
Speaker 1: know who Greg Kelly is. I remember this case happened like.
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I remember it, the allegation and the dismissal happening really
Speaker 1: quick like that. It was like not a big, like
Speaker 1: a blip in that guy's like life. But this episode
Speaker 1: is also based on an amazing escort rivalry, and we
Speaker 1: will of course cover that when we do our next.
Speaker 2: Episode about this three episode arc. And don't go anywhere
Speaker 2: because we have an amazing guest. You're gonna be obsessed. Okay, guys, guys.
Speaker 1: When we started this podcast, there were certain people Lisa
Speaker 1: really wanted to get. Ari Grainer, other people that she
Speaker 1: said she wanted to get. I have always wanted to
Speaker 1: get today's guest. She is an actor who has starred
Speaker 1: in some iconic television shows, Gray's Anatomy, Ray Donovan Bates Motel,
Speaker 1: a fan of two shows.
Speaker 2: I'm big fans of Big. You can't even get this out.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever seen this. You can't even
Speaker 2: see it's like I'm stumbling all over the place.
Speaker 1: Most importantly, she played Catherine Martin in a seminal Clank
Speaker 1: family film called.
Speaker 2: The Silence of the Lambs.
Speaker 1: But you know her in a three episode SBU arc
Speaker 1: as Upper east Side Madam Delia Wilson. Guys, please to
Speaker 1: enjoy our amazing chat with Brooke Smith.
Speaker 2: Hi, Brook, thank you so much for talking to us.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I hope it's not like a five minute,
Speaker 5: you know episode.
Speaker 3: Well, we've been dreaming of talking to you since we
Speaker 3: started this podcast.
Speaker 2: It's really it's thrilling that you're here. Delia so evil,
Speaker 2: but she's just misunderstood.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's such an interesting character because she like
Speaker 1: lives on a farm and like baby goats.
Speaker 2: But then it is like, what's up.
Speaker 1: I'm an Upper east Side madam, but I only wear
Speaker 1: like Wellington boots and vests.
Speaker 2: Like it's a confusing She's not what you normally think of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's that sounds a little Martha, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It's like if Martha Stewart had a side business supplying
Speaker 1: sex workers to the britch and powerful.
Speaker 5: And I remember, I mean, you guys probably know better
Speaker 5: than me, but I feel like you know, it was
Speaker 5: loosely based on something real.
Speaker 4: You know that there was a woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, well we're going to so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it didn't really end well for her, did it.
Speaker 2: I No, I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I think she's in prison. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did you know, did you do any research on the
Speaker 2: real version or did you just go in?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Not so much.
Speaker 5: I knew about her, and I knew enough about her,
Speaker 5: and then it was just I think the whole point
Speaker 5: was just that she has some, you know, pretty well
Speaker 5: placed clients, you know, like pretty high up in the
Speaker 5: government type people.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So, but she was Russian, I think. So it's not
Speaker 5: like I ever decided to make her Russian or because.
Speaker 2: It was you know, yeah, well that would have been
Speaker 2: a choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, So, I mean my immediate first question, how
Speaker 1: was bottle feeding that baby goat?
Speaker 2: I mean, how was that experience? I can't forget.
Speaker 5: Starting there because it's literally like we're gonna have to
Speaker 5: stretch this into the entire interview because it's kind of
Speaker 5: all I remember.
Speaker 4: That thing had just been born that day.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 5: Yes, And these are the perks of being an actor,
Speaker 5: Like who gets to hold a baby goat and feed it?
Speaker 2: I can't believe they're ready to work so fast.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that they asked the goat, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, It's so funny because it's like you see
Speaker 1: a baby born in a movie and you're like, that's
Speaker 1: a three month old baby. But like the baby goats,
Speaker 1: what do we know that could have been? You didn't
Speaker 1: have to be a day old.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's really true.
Speaker 5: Actually, yeah, I don't think they do like hours freshly
Speaker 5: born humans.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, the goat probably as a baby goat has like
Speaker 1: certain union hours. It's allowed to work on sex and
Speaker 1: you know, like have to get it to its tutor
Speaker 1: and everything.
Speaker 4: So I wonder where the goat is now?
Speaker 3: Was the goat well behaved like you enjoyed, very great time.
Speaker 4: Adorable, so cute. I get to hold it. It was
Speaker 4: like a little my No, it was very very nice.
Speaker 2: Where did you guys film the farm scenes?
Speaker 4: I'm going to say Long Island?
Speaker 2: Oh that makes sense.
Speaker 5: That's what I'm going to say. I feel like it
Speaker 5: was Long Island. I almost said New Jersey.
Speaker 2: Ps.
Speaker 4: Where are you guys are?
Speaker 3: We're in LA But I'm in New York right now.
Speaker 3: I'm in Sunset Park at the moment. Oh why, I
Speaker 3: just love it here. I miss it and I just
Speaker 3: we do stand up comedy and so coming to New
Speaker 3: York you just get to do a lot of it,
Speaker 3: party dinners, friends.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess I do miss New York. I think
Speaker 5: I'm starting to realize.
Speaker 2: That are you in La Yeah?
Speaker 5: Here for like, you know, fourteen thirteen years something like that.
Speaker 5: But I have a daughter who's now at Pratt So
Speaker 5: I've been going to oh cool, you know, New York,
Speaker 5: mostly in Brooklyn. I feel so weird about Manhattan, you guys,
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, I don't really Brooklyn's the coolest spot to be.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't really relate in any way to the
Speaker 5: city that literally made me who I am.
Speaker 2: Did you grow up in New York?
Speaker 4: I did?
Speaker 5: And actually, oh, look at this perfect publicity moment.
Speaker 4: I was a punk rocker.
Speaker 5: And I in the mid eighties lived in a squat
Speaker 5: on the Lower East Side and took all these photographs.
Speaker 5: And I have a book coming out in the fall
Speaker 5: in November.
Speaker 2: Wow. Cool.
Speaker 5: So it's about you know, it's there's not a lot
Speaker 5: of words, it's mostly photographs. Oh god, I'm touching the phone.
Speaker 5: Hold on, I'm not supposed to do that, Okay anyway, So, yeah,
Speaker 5: that's so. I'm from New York, but I don't recognize it.
Speaker 4: I I don't.
Speaker 5: And even when I stay at my friend's house in
Speaker 5: Brooklyn and she has a view of like all of Manhattan,
Speaker 5: I'm like, is that Cleveland?
Speaker 4: I have no idea. Like those tall, skinny buildings near
Speaker 4: Central Park? What are those?
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't even know.
Speaker 1: I lived in New York for eleven years, but I
Speaker 1: left six years ago to La So I don't really
Speaker 1: know the sky.
Speaker 2: I mean especially I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know New York as well, especially because of pandemic.
Speaker 2: I didn't go for like two over two years.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: But you're you're were you born and raised Upper West Side?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I was born in Manhattan.
Speaker 5: I was raised near Nyak Huh A lot of shooting
Speaker 5: of sbu up therapy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have performed in the Mall comedy club before.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the Nanuet or the Nanuet Mall.
Speaker 2: Is it called the Levity where Levity Live is right?
Speaker 3: I don't know the name of them all, but I
Speaker 3: visited Sleepy Hollow. I saw like the I went to
Speaker 3: the cemetery.
Speaker 4: I had some fun but nice nice.
Speaker 3: But New York at NAY is gritty and scary like
Speaker 3: it used to be, So maybe it'll feel familiar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they post pandemic. It's gone well.
Speaker 3: At first, like an older comic was telling me, I
Speaker 3: was like, he's just an old man. And then I
Speaker 3: stayed out till five and it's like, oh, this is different.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean it was weird because I was there last
Speaker 5: week and I took my daughter nineteen to Tompkins Square,
Speaker 5: which used to be literally I knew the payphone number
Speaker 5: by heart, and you know, sat on a bench there
Speaker 5: smoking pot with my daughter. It's just so bizarre, you know, Like,
Speaker 5: and I actually did notice that some kind of old
Speaker 5: timey things like people shooting up in the middle of
Speaker 5: the day in the park. You know that didn't feel
Speaker 5: like you know, it was like that a couple of
Speaker 5: years back.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, but the smell of weed is fun
Speaker 3: when you're walking by, and it's so cool you get
Speaker 3: to smoke with your daughter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, right, I'd rather people walk walk smoking
Speaker 5: weed than on the goddamn cell phone. I I have
Speaker 5: a rule, I do not move out of the way, Like,
Speaker 5: if I'm walking and you're on your cell and you're walking,
Speaker 5: you got to pull over otherwise I'm gonna you just
Speaker 5: saying yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'm assuming they just offered this part to you.
Speaker 4: Oh they did, yeah.
Speaker 2: Offer only baby.
Speaker 1: Well, and you had done like a lot of law
Speaker 1: and order, like you've been in criminal intent, you've been
Speaker 1: in regular law and order and SV You've done the
Speaker 1: whole trifecta.
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 5: And I have to say, I think it took so
Speaker 5: long for SBU because every time. I think there were
Speaker 5: a couple of times before when they asked me and
Speaker 5: I was like, do I get raped? Does my kid
Speaker 5: get raped? I'm just not really in the mood for that.
Speaker 5: So this one was like, yeah, I'll do this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, almost when you're like, I'm just getting people killed
Speaker 1: from crossing me, but nothing, you know, you don't really
Speaker 1: get your hands dirty per se.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's terrifying character.
Speaker 3: So you're curious which ones you turned down, though, like
Speaker 3: I want to know what the like, that's a wild
Speaker 3: question to remember, but I'm so curiously Yeah.
Speaker 2: So cool.
Speaker 5: I know, I know one involved a kid being taken,
Speaker 5: and I thought, oh no, I can't do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah too close?
Speaker 4: Yeah, just too too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, QUSVU REALLYSVU.
Speaker 3: But even though you didn't, we weren't like a criminal
Speaker 3: criminal you did get I mean you were a criminal.
Speaker 3: You didn't get your hands dirty, but you got a
Speaker 3: nice courtroom scene.
Speaker 2: I was. Do you remember filming the courtroom scene?
Speaker 4: Oh god, will you guys tell me some stuff? What
Speaker 4: did I do?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, your lawyer? Your lawyer was Ron Rifkin.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I love Ron?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Was that good? Was that fun? That's crazy?
Speaker 5: It's like crazy that I totally forgot that until you
Speaker 5: said that. Is this what happens to people when they
Speaker 5: come on They're like, holy shit, he was.
Speaker 2: He was in a lot of people. A lot of
Speaker 2: people are like, wait.
Speaker 1: You tell me what happened next, were like, what happened.
Speaker 2: When you shot?
Speaker 1: When you had that blood all over you? And she's
Speaker 1: like wait, I did well you get that a lot?
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And then we're kind of like, I said so in
Speaker 3: depth that we'll talk to someone.
Speaker 2: They're like, that was twenty two years ago.
Speaker 3: Like sometimes I do feel our questions are inappropriate.
Speaker 5: I mean, let's face it, I could have rewatched it,
Speaker 5: couldn't I have?
Speaker 4: I could have like crept I did google it. I
Speaker 4: saw it ten years ago.
Speaker 1: Ten years ago, the ten year anniversary of that of
Speaker 1: that full three episode arc that goes across seasons.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah from thirteen to fourteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, there you got it. But do you have
Speaker 1: any memories of like working with Marishko, working with Braun,
Speaker 1: like working like being on the set or anything like
Speaker 1: anything our listeners might like, nice hotel, a little bit
Speaker 1: of tea.
Speaker 5: I remember, Oh god, I wish I had tea. I
Speaker 5: remember Mary, she could being very very nice. She had
Speaker 5: a baby too. She had a baby, like right there
Speaker 5: in a crib, baby like right there, her youngest one. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm thinking right ten years ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah. How many does she have?
Speaker 2: She has three?
Speaker 1: But I think her oldest son is like a teen,
Speaker 1: like a seventeen or eighteen.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh good luck. I guess that's why she's
Speaker 5: still working. They're still doing this show. Yes, Oh yeah, baby, Okay,
Speaker 5: what season is it?
Speaker 2: Twenty? It's about to be twenty four? Holy shit. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're never going to stop. I think they'll just
Speaker 1: stop when she stops. I truly don't think they're going
Speaker 1: to stop it until she stops.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, wait, so let me think, Well, when you
Speaker 5: asked that question, I all of a sudden thought of
Speaker 5: Law and Order, which isn't the same. But I just
Speaker 5: remember being in a courtroom in Law and Order, So
Speaker 5: you think, why wouldn't I remember this one? It was
Speaker 5: more recent, but I remember asking questions and Sam Waterston
Speaker 5: being like, don't ask questions.
Speaker 4: Don't it's Pandora's box.
Speaker 5: If you ask questions, it's all going to fall apart,
Speaker 5: you know, Because I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker 4: Why was I here? If this happened then, you know
Speaker 4: that kind of thing. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: no god, the scripts are in. We only have till Friday, Like,
Speaker 4: let's just shoot this thing.
Speaker 1: At that point it was probably Sam Waterson's like fifteenth season.
Speaker 2: He was like, nope, we don't do questions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, just just play the scene, Brooke. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's so. I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't remember much else. It's really just the goat.
Speaker 5: Everybody was very nice, and yeah, I do remember that
Speaker 5: kind of burbery clothing thing that yeare Richie kind of yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Like when they when they lead you down the courthouse steps,
Speaker 1: which I don't know if you remember this, when you
Speaker 1: finally do get busted, they lead you down to the
Speaker 1: courthouse steps.
Speaker 2: I think you're wearing Wellington's. I mean, you're like rubber
Speaker 2: boots to court.
Speaker 4: It's because they picked me up there, don't they. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well obviously we we want to know how often
Speaker 3: do people bring up the lotion to you in the streets.
Speaker 5: You know, still they still do it, but less, I'd
Speaker 5: say less. It used to be weirder, you know, when
Speaker 5: people be like, you know, oh my god, my boyfriend
Speaker 5: does that same thing when he texts his penis in
Speaker 5: and you're just like.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I need to know that or
Speaker 5: that should be your boyfriend or I just like, yeah.
Speaker 2: So I do get that sometimes, Yeah, it seemly that.
Speaker 5: Or Grey's anatomy, because I guess those are the two
Speaker 5: biggest things.
Speaker 1: You know, I was gonna ask you, do you get more?
Speaker 1: Do you get more silence of the Lambs? People are
Speaker 1: more Gray's Anatomy people.
Speaker 4: I think it's like fifty to fifteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Because like when Lisa was saying how she
Speaker 1: sees people, and she's like svusvusbu. I've seen you in
Speaker 1: a ton of stuff that you've done, but I always
Speaker 1: am like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yes it's brook Smith from Silence of the Lambs. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just like that movie. The listeners know. I bring up
Speaker 2: that movie all the time, like.
Speaker 1: It's just like it was like a seminal movie for me,
Speaker 1: Like it was very disturbing. I think I watched it
Speaker 1: when I was like twelve or thirteen, maybe too early,
Speaker 1: and I like really love it, and my family like
Speaker 1: quotes it and makes jokes about it all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't know, we're sick, but you're so good in that,
Speaker 1: And that was one of your first big roles, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was kind of my big first thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was your big because you're also associated not
Speaker 3: only with Logan but the song like the American Girl.
Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, there's certain movies where that's
Speaker 3: all like all I think about when I hear that song.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's funny because I'll be like in a
Speaker 5: mall and I'll hear that song and I'll fee I'll
Speaker 5: kind of look around secretly I.
Speaker 4: Can't believe saying this, and I'll be like, is everybody
Speaker 4: gonna mob me? Now? Like, no, no one sees you.
Speaker 5: No one is making that connection, Brooke, No, no, but.
Speaker 2: It's just like it is such a song.
Speaker 1: I connect to one person and that person is you.
Speaker 4: Even though crazy, I wish I had met Tom Petty.
Speaker 1: You guys, and I know I know, so can I
Speaker 1: just like take it back? So you grew up in
Speaker 1: New York, the New York area, and I was reading
Speaker 1: about you that your mother was this like well known
Speaker 1: publicist and had like a lot of big clients. So
Speaker 1: was that something that kind of sparked your interest in
Speaker 1: getting into the acting world. Did you already have that
Speaker 1: or like what how did you get started in this
Speaker 1: crazy biz?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I mean I would say that was it, and that
Speaker 5: Freud or whoever would probably say that my mom was
Speaker 5: always off with actors, So hello, I became an actor,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 4: But she was East Coast, so that's a little different. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and she was different in every way.
Speaker 5: Like this morning, I was I'm just going to diss
Speaker 5: the New York Times once but this and I sound
Speaker 5: just like my dad who worked at the New York Times.
Speaker 5: But I saw the cover today and there was some
Speaker 5: piece like halfway down about some publicist and I remember
Speaker 5: my mom used to say, like, if you're a publicist
Speaker 5: and you're publicizing yourself, like.
Speaker 4: You know, what is that?
Speaker 5: I don't know, but anyway, so yes, grew up around
Speaker 5: it and I don't know what.
Speaker 4: To say except I always knew that's what I was
Speaker 4: going to do. I just always knew.
Speaker 5: And I guess I would say nepotism was a piece
Speaker 5: of it, probably because Jonathan Demi was a publicist prior
Speaker 5: to being a direct so he knew my mom somehow,
Speaker 5: and I think when he was starting to look for
Speaker 5: someone to play that role, somebody said, oh you should,
Speaker 5: you know, talk to Lois's daughter, and that's kind of
Speaker 5: how I met it, and boom, yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 3: Well I read it the I think it was Vulture
Speaker 3: did like the anniversary of Silence of the Lambs or
Speaker 3: like an oral history, and you were a part of
Speaker 3: it and talking, and I did.
Speaker 2: Really love that.
Speaker 3: You're like the only person ever in the history of
Speaker 3: entertainment that's ever been like, oh yeah, my mom was
Speaker 3: in the bus and that's.
Speaker 2: How I got connected. And then I got a thing
Speaker 2: like no one ever wants to say that.
Speaker 4: I guess people feel like it means they're not good
Speaker 4: or something. Or whatever.
Speaker 1: But if you had been terrible, A, we would have
Speaker 1: seen it, and B you would have stopped working.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, hopefully.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of bad actors out there working guys.
Speaker 1: I know, right, Oh wait, but did you you saw
Speaker 1: this whole thing O like a year ago maybe with
Speaker 1: the anniversary of Sound Slams, where everybody said that you
Speaker 1: and the guy who played Buffalo Bill were dating.
Speaker 5: Yes, And it was a picture from my camera of
Speaker 5: us sitting on the edge of the pit right with
Speaker 5: their arms around each other, Ted Levine, who was married,
Speaker 5: And I was like, you know, no, we were I
Speaker 5: never dated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, every and then you wrote on Instagram and were
Speaker 1: like this isn't true but cute pick or something exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and people still didn't believe me, and yeah, all right,
Speaker 5: that was getting so viral for like three days.
Speaker 2: It was like, can you believe these two co stars dated?
Speaker 4: I know, very weird, very weird.
Speaker 5: I mean, I will say, and I've said this before
Speaker 5: that Jody used to refer to me as Patty Hurst
Speaker 5: because she.
Speaker 4: Didn't really get. I mean she did get because she
Speaker 4: had done the accused.
Speaker 5: But that thing of when you kind of overcompensate with
Speaker 5: an actor who's like on screen torturing you and going
Speaker 5: to kill you, so you kind of bend over the
Speaker 5: other way when you're off screen. Yeah, we became really
Speaker 5: tight and hung out all the time when we weren't working.
Speaker 2: So well, that's cool. How deep was the hole?
Speaker 5: It was deep, you guys, it was And it was
Speaker 5: in a factory in Pittsburgh weirdly whoa, and so.
Speaker 4: They like, I don't know, they made it and I could.
Speaker 5: Get in it from down below or from the side
Speaker 5: or from above, but it was pretty deep.
Speaker 4: I got a sign.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Well, so Kara's always Silence of the Lambs with you
Speaker 3: and wildly. In my theater class in high school, we
Speaker 3: watched Uncle Manya on forty second Street and that's that
Speaker 3: was my introduction to you.
Speaker 4: So wait, what theater class? What theater class?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Like at my high school, I went to Niles North
Speaker 3: in the Chicago suburbs, and mister Ortman loved him. He
Speaker 3: retired this past year. But we had a we had
Speaker 3: an amazing theater department. We had like a full costume
Speaker 3: and scene workshop, and I mean we had like we
Speaker 3: did equis in high school, kabuki plays like it was
Speaker 3: really cool and I forgot, well we're probably just studying
Speaker 3: Chekhov or something, but we watched and.
Speaker 4: It was nice. Shout out to mister or Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was one of my faves. I think, I
Speaker 5: think probably my fave.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then of course I've seen you in Bosh. I'm
Speaker 1: a huge Bosh head and Big Sky was one of
Speaker 1: my big pandemic watches. Loved your whole arc in Big Sky.
Speaker 1: I was really nervous and scared for you. But I
Speaker 1: kind of like that your character ends up well and
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil it for any of the
Speaker 1: Big Sky.
Speaker 2: Yet it's out there. Yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 4: I was happy with how that turned out as well.
Speaker 5: And yeah, and Bosh, I don't know, they brought me on.
Speaker 5: This happens to me where they bring me on to
Speaker 5: be like Grumpy and the foil and like and I'm like,
Speaker 5: why do why don't I like that person? And they're like,
Speaker 5: we don't know, we just need somebody to not like
Speaker 5: that person. So yeah, I don't know. I just kind
Speaker 5: of disappeared on Bosh, didn't Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were like against the chief, right, like you
Speaker 1: didn't like you were making her life a living hell
Speaker 1: kind of.
Speaker 5: I think I probably yeah, because then I remember Amy
Speaker 5: Akino and Io that's her. Yeah, we were like saying,
Speaker 5: wouldn't it be nice if we could like come together
Speaker 5: and be women who like support each other and not like.
Speaker 4: Attack each other like they always do. And then I
Speaker 4: was gone.
Speaker 1: So they're like, actually, no getting rid of her.
Speaker 4: No, you know, we don't want that. She has too
Speaker 4: many ideas.
Speaker 2: Do you watch your projects?
Speaker 4: I do?
Speaker 5: I feel like there was on recently that I didn't,
Speaker 5: but uh no, you know what there's I mostly do.
Speaker 4: I mostly do. There's been a couple that I haven't.
Speaker 5: There was one I did that I'm sure is terrible,
Speaker 5: but I had so much fun that I don't want to,
Speaker 5: you know, have that memory?
Speaker 2: Do you know it's terrible as you work? Honestly?
Speaker 5: Oh that's a good question. Well, h no, I'll get
Speaker 5: in trouble. I can't say much. But uh, they you know,
Speaker 5: I just did something recently that I really have no
Speaker 5: idea what the hell we did, no clue, and so
Speaker 5: we'll see what they, you know, turn it into I
Speaker 5: really don't know. So I guess it's true that we
Speaker 5: never really know. But I will say I knew on
Speaker 5: Silence of the Lamps that it was going to be huge.
Speaker 5: Yeah you did, Yeah, that one, I know, yeah, and
Speaker 5: the other ones I guess.
Speaker 4: I can know.
Speaker 1: And you ended up being like on Grays, which I'm
Speaker 1: not a Gray's person, but I was wondering, like, Dick
Speaker 1: Wolfe Universe, shondaaland those are kind of two huge, you know,
Speaker 1: TV powerhouses.
Speaker 2: How do you think they compare?
Speaker 5: Oh my god, you mean specifically Dick Wolf and Shonda Rhimes.
Speaker 1: Well, no, just like this, the feelings of the sets,
Speaker 1: like the you know, be it because you've been on
Speaker 1: you were really recurring on Grays. Obviously you did like
Speaker 1: dozens of episodes on Grays, but you've been on like
Speaker 1: three different Law and Order sets and various roles, and
Speaker 1: you probably got a sense for what it's like. I
Speaker 1: was just wondering if like it's like, no, it's shondaland
Speaker 1: like it's this way, and you know, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know what.
Speaker 5: To say about that. They do feel like different lands.
Speaker 5: And I remember I had a friend who was on
Speaker 5: Grays when I got there, who said, Okay, at the table,
Speaker 5: read sit next to Shonda.
Speaker 4: If you have a major script note.
Speaker 5: Take it right to her right after the table read
Speaker 5: if not, go to the writer that's name is on
Speaker 5: the script, because you don't want to make that you know,
Speaker 5: you don't want to get into Shonda unless it's really
Speaker 5: really structurally something.
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh my god, Okay.
Speaker 5: And lately I've been hearing this thing where you can't, like,
Speaker 5: if you have a question and you want to ask
Speaker 5: a writer a question that doesn't always get answered. In fact,
Speaker 5: lately it really doesn't get answered at all. I've been
Speaker 5: finding like, you know, I was on a show, and
Speaker 5: you know, I wasn't a series regular, but I had
Speaker 5: this massive scene to do and I really had a
Speaker 5: lot of questions and I just couldn't get any writer
Speaker 5: to call me back. And I just thought, well, that's weird,
Speaker 5: because if I'm writing something and you have questions hit me,
Speaker 5: you know, like I'll I don't know.
Speaker 4: What that is. I don't know if they I don't
Speaker 4: know what that is. It's weird.
Speaker 5: And then I've worked recently on ones where they don't
Speaker 5: talk to us at all.
Speaker 2: That's so wild. That is so crazy.
Speaker 4: Have you guys not experienced this or I don't know.
Speaker 2: If we're working as much as you are working as
Speaker 2: much as you.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, and I don't want to be negative,
Speaker 5: but I do feel like there is this kind of corporate,
Speaker 5: kind of streamer model thing maybe happening where people are
Speaker 5: all in their own lanes and they're like not collaborating
Speaker 5: as much, and maybe someone comes up with a great
Speaker 5: idea but they don't have a lot of experience or something.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I really don't know.
Speaker 1: I also wonder if it's like remnants of COVID too,
Speaker 1: where like I was hearing like during COVID, like writers
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to come to the set, so then they
Speaker 1: wouldn't be there, like because like only actors can be
Speaker 1: near each other or because of like all these regulations
Speaker 1: and stuff.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, but they have email.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or call you back on the phone.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, you know the emails. I think.
Speaker 3: I guess that most of our friends too, are like
Speaker 3: comedy writers, and I wonder if we're just like more desperate.
Speaker 3: But I feel like everyone I know that does comedy writing,
Speaker 3: there's like punch up on set, and people like all
Speaker 3: my friends that have done that seem to be very involved.
Speaker 2: So I wonder, Yeah, you would think genre difference.
Speaker 3: Well, I have a nut you're in One of my
Speaker 3: other favorite movies. In Her Shoes is like, oh, I
Speaker 3: watch it all the time. And Mark Firestein is gonna
Speaker 3: be a guest next week on the pod because he's
Speaker 3: in an SBO.
Speaker 2: He plays like, what is this plastic surgeon? Rape guy?
Speaker 3: And him and his girlfriend drug women and rape them.
Speaker 3: And then you find out that he actually started dating
Speaker 3: her when she was a child and made her get
Speaker 3: all this plastic surgery as they dated.
Speaker 4: Oh, even worse, that's even worse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like a body in a wall and they're
Speaker 3: drugging a lot of young women.
Speaker 4: There's a body in a wall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, alright, alright, but he'll be on.
Speaker 3: But I love that movie so much. It's like, oh, goody,
Speaker 3: one of my watches.
Speaker 2: Did you enjoy it? What did you get? You film
Speaker 2: it in Philly? Or No?
Speaker 4: I did film it in Philly. I did enjoy it.
Speaker 5: It was hard originally because truth beat old. I gave
Speaker 5: one of the best auditions of my life for the
Speaker 5: part Tony Collette played.
Speaker 4: In fact, I made.
Speaker 5: The director cry in the room, and I was pretty
Speaker 5: certain I was going to get it, and I did not,
Speaker 5: So for a long time. My husband said it was
Speaker 5: his phrase. He would always say, you're you're not thin enough.
Speaker 4: To be the fat girl in Hollywood.
Speaker 5: Sorry, yeah, but uh yeah, I did have fun doing it.
Speaker 5: And I remember I had a baby then, so she
Speaker 5: like learned to walk, you know. That's how I remember
Speaker 5: these projects now, I guess, yeah, hundred, I'm a hundred yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow was it weird being on set? How did you
Speaker 2: deal with your feelings on set and being this, you know,
Speaker 2: the friend.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you're asking this because and I hope Tony
Speaker 5: hears this one day, because god damn it, I'm mortified.
Speaker 4: We were shooting a.
Speaker 5: Scene like where we're in a bed and we're I'm
Speaker 5: the best friend and she likes a guy and he
Speaker 5: doesn't like her.
Speaker 4: So what are we doing. We're like, you know, moaning
Speaker 4: and eating candy like women do.
Speaker 5: And actually I also took a tooth out in that
Speaker 5: scene with I think a juji fruit, if I want
Speaker 5: to know the whole thing.
Speaker 4: But not once, not twice, three times I called Tony's
Speaker 4: character my character's name.
Speaker 5: Like I didn't do it on purpose, obviously, but whatever
Speaker 5: my character's name was, if it was Betty, I was
Speaker 5: like so Betty, I don't think you And on the
Speaker 5: third time she was like, no, you're fucking Betty and
Speaker 5: I'm fucking and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, my god, I'm so sorry, you.
Speaker 5: Know, And I just thought, because I love Tony, I
Speaker 5: have no problem with Tony. I just I did want
Speaker 5: to play that part because you know, fat girls. I mean, Jesus,
Speaker 5: It's like, I know what that is. Okay, that's all
Speaker 5: I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the audition, Yeah, it's so funny. The auditions are
Speaker 3: always just like that. I get her, always like she
Speaker 3: loves eat lunch, she's a bitch at work, everyone hates her,
Speaker 3: and that's like all the descriptions of every one.
Speaker 2: And then I I helped my Red. She's like, that's
Speaker 2: always a description that I help.
Speaker 3: Our friend Sidney Washington is like a really beautiful, stereotypically
Speaker 3: beautiful woman, and I helped her read lines and the
Speaker 3: description was like Fox NBA players so hot, and I
Speaker 3: was like, it's so fun how we have such different
Speaker 3: different breakdowns, different breakdowns.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I love the way that every woman is always described
Speaker 5: as being like unbelievably beautiful first, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: But she doesn't know it.
Speaker 2: She never knows it.
Speaker 1: She knows because if she knew it, because then she
Speaker 1: if she knew it one a nightmare exactly.
Speaker 3: Or like a lot of my descriptions like disheveled, annoying,
Speaker 3: you know, but I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's available people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just so cool. I've known we haven't talked
Speaker 2: to someone.
Speaker 3: I've never really heard an experience of like being on
Speaker 3: set with this like huge part that you really wanted.
Speaker 2: That's like really wild.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 5: I remember being like, oh great, I'm sloppy seconds they're
Speaker 5: going to give me scale and I got to be
Speaker 5: the friend.
Speaker 4: I'll do it, you know, I'll be right there. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you have anything coming up you'd love to share
Speaker 3: with our listeners to find?
Speaker 1: Yeah, besides, what's the name of the book yet?
Speaker 4: Wait? What book? I'm like, what book? Sunday Matinee.
Speaker 2: Sunday Matinee. I love that.
Speaker 1: Okay, Sunday Matinee by brook Smith coming out this fall.
Speaker 1: Everyone will check that out and then any other any
Speaker 1: like acting projects happening in the game A.
Speaker 5: There is something in the can It's I don't think
Speaker 5: it's going to have that title though, that's the thing.
Speaker 5: It's an FX limited series with one of my favorite actors,
Speaker 5: Brian Tyree Henry.
Speaker 2: Oh he's so good. I love him.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love him too.
Speaker 2: I will watch him in anything. I love it literally
Speaker 2: the same. I love him.
Speaker 4: He's so I mean beyond. And Kate Marra and this
Speaker 4: guy Jake McDormand.
Speaker 2: She's an SVU.
Speaker 4: Oh I'll bet she is it happen to her something bad?
Speaker 2: Or no, she was a bad girl.
Speaker 1: Yes, she was a gymnast that killed her friend because
Speaker 1: she wanted to be the best.
Speaker 5: Oh yes, oh, okay, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 4: What season is that?
Speaker 1: I'm all early like four or five. It's called Pixies.
Speaker 1: The episode is called Pixies.
Speaker 3: Oh wait is the FX is it like a mystery Vibe.
Speaker 5: It's kind of jumps all around in time, past, present, future,
Speaker 5: FBI AI. There's a lot of AI stuff happening. I'm
Speaker 5: an FBI instructor.
Speaker 4: Oh, and it's all about my class right now. It's
Speaker 4: called Class of O nine.
Speaker 5: And it's the Class of O nine and what happens
Speaker 5: to each one of them when they get out of
Speaker 5: Quantico and and one of them becomes the head of
Speaker 5: the FBI and maybe chooses safety rather than privacy. I
Speaker 5: guess it's all happening in real life right now in
Speaker 5: our country and others. Yeah, so that's that's what that is.
Speaker 5: I have no idea.
Speaker 4: I haven't even gone and done ad R yet, so
Speaker 4: I don't know what it's all.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's actually on the IMDb as class of
Speaker 1: O nine, so we'll have everybody check that out when
Speaker 1: it comes out.
Speaker 2: This was really thank you so much. I truly was like,
Speaker 2: are we.
Speaker 1: Gonna get Delia? Like, I was so excited to have you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally aka Catherine, aka all of the different awesome roles
Speaker 1: you've played.
Speaker 2: Were so excited to talk to you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Thank you guys.
Speaker 2: How do you feel Kara? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I just love her. I just want to hang out
Speaker 1: with her. And I don't think that she wants to.
Speaker 1: I don't think she feels the same. But I would
Speaker 1: like to think you pop up from doobesy. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: pot with me in the East village with her daughter.
Speaker 2: I'll do it.
Speaker 1: I was like when she said that, I was like,
Speaker 1: you're probably such a fun mom, Like I would love
Speaker 1: to be like the kind of mom that she is.
Speaker 2: I bet no.
Speaker 3: I actually walked through Thompson Square Park and thought of
Speaker 3: her on my latest New York visit. I was like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is where Brooks smoke pot so but I had
Speaker 3: just speed walk. I was running late to something. And
Speaker 3: you know, I've said this, I keep saying. I think
Speaker 3: I might have mentioned an intro. But I love that
Speaker 3: she brings up nepotism in a casual, real way, and
Speaker 3: I am honored.
Speaker 2: And it's just like, thank you.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make you less talented, it doesn't make you
Speaker 3: less worthy. It's just admitting that you had an in
Speaker 3: and it helped you. Yeah, what's the problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah you got I tell everybody about my little legs
Speaker 1: up whenever I've gotten any But you know, I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see the next stuff that she does.
Speaker 2: And I bet that that album, I bet that that.
Speaker 1: Book of photography she does about the punk scene is
Speaker 1: like cool as hell. I bet that would be an
Speaker 1: awesome gift for like a coffee table book for.
Speaker 2: Your cool, edgy arty friend.
Speaker 3: And she gave us tea, I mean the Tony Collett tea.
Speaker 3: I mean that's like, she is great.
Speaker 2: Love that. You know, It's funny.
Speaker 3: We talked about auditions and stuff with her. So I
Speaker 3: did have a callback today and I took a sip
Speaker 3: of white Claw like on the call because it's like Ferner.
Speaker 3: But then they go love the white Claw, and I go, well,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm a little nervous, and then they go,
Speaker 3: we thought it was part of the character, and I
Speaker 3: went it was.
Speaker 2: It was for sure, amazing. I love, but the character
Speaker 2: is whacky.
Speaker 1: I only go out really for you wear your emotions
Speaker 1: right on your fucking sleeve, Liza.
Speaker 2: I know I can't.
Speaker 3: I mean honestly, like, we love doing this in the
Speaker 3: post mortem. But I did send Kara a screenshot of
Speaker 3: a disturbing text I just got and I cannot wait
Speaker 3: to discuss it with you.
Speaker 2: It's like nuts, It's.
Speaker 3: Like, okay, yeah, Brooks Smith was great, move it along.
Speaker 2: What's the charity? I'm kidding, It's amazing and we It's.
Speaker 3: Hard, honestly, on a macro serious level.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to.
Speaker 3: Envision change happening on a big stage because all of
Speaker 3: the power players are part of this trafficking sex, trafficking
Speaker 3: underage girl Ray. It's like, how do we crush a
Speaker 3: system when the judges and cops and district attorneys and
Speaker 3: all of them.
Speaker 1: Everybody at the top has secrets. Everybody at the top
Speaker 1: has to protect their own ass. There's always like money.
Speaker 1: I mean, we just keep running into that, like in
Speaker 1: episodes that we're doing for this podcast of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were found guilty, but then they just appealed and
Speaker 1: appealed and appealed because they had endless money and then
Speaker 1: they were out.
Speaker 2: You know, like it's just, uh, it's it's wild.
Speaker 1: But that Ron Rifkin part at the end really like
Speaker 1: it encapsulates that. It's like, you guys don't know how
Speaker 1: fucking deep this goes. Like the shit goes really deep.
Speaker 1: I was just reading an article on that Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: aide who got murdered in DC, and like there was
Speaker 1: a fucking pro Trump cop that was trying to meddle
Speaker 1: with the investigation.
Speaker 2: Like there's just so much.
Speaker 1: We look at other countries, like we look at like
Speaker 1: third world countries, We're like, look at all that corruption.
Speaker 2: We have just as fucking much.
Speaker 1: You know, we're just on another level with our corruption
Speaker 1: and worldwide.
Speaker 3: I mean I remember like sometimes when you travel you
Speaker 3: meet people and they're just like, oh, well, I used
Speaker 3: to live in this country.
Speaker 2: But then your country bombed it and now it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like oh yeah, my bad, Like it's just like
Speaker 3: international terrorism.
Speaker 2: I hope they don't shut down this podcast. But we
Speaker 2: know the truth.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would say another post mortem take away from
Speaker 1: this episode is like definitely the don't judge.
Speaker 2: A book by its cover.
Speaker 1: You would never run into someone who looks like Delia
Speaker 1: Wilson in her you know, little padded vests and Wellington's
Speaker 1: and think that she was leaving dead sex workers in
Speaker 1: beds of Captain Creagan and all this stuff.
Speaker 2: So you know, just you never know what people are best.
Speaker 3: Criminals are the most underground, because why do if you're flashy,
Speaker 3: you're not that deep, like yeah, right, or you're dumb
Speaker 3: like Teresa Judy che right right?
Speaker 2: Like who?
Speaker 1: Like okay, the BTK was like a pastor and like
Speaker 1: a family man. You know, there's like all kinds of
Speaker 1: of same with that Baker Butcher of Alaska, Like I
Speaker 1: mean with men, I always believe there can be a
Speaker 1: second side. What I like on this one is that
Speaker 1: it's a woman who's got this like devious sect. Like
Speaker 1: obviously I wouldn't like to see it in real life,
Speaker 1: but in the show it's fun. Yeah, and then I
Speaker 1: really like, I unfortunately learned a lot of sad information
Speaker 1: about that case against Greg Kelly that you researched, because
Speaker 1: that was.
Speaker 2: So fucked it.
Speaker 1: It's just so fucked that people with power can just
Speaker 1: like humiliate a victim and like run their name through
Speaker 1: the mud until they don't want to press charges anymore,
Speaker 1: until they just like back down, and like it's it's
Speaker 1: so fucked up, it really is.
Speaker 3: I just had a conversation with a comment We were
Speaker 3: talking about like warm up comedians for sitcoms, and it's
Speaker 3: like the people who entertain the people that are at
Speaker 3: the live tapings, the laughs that you hear, and they
Speaker 3: really have to entertain everyone for six seven hours.
Speaker 2: It's really wild. Sometimes on their chin it's like nuts.
Speaker 3: Not for a sitcom, he has, Oh my god, it's
Speaker 3: done it for sick.
Speaker 1: It's it's called up down because like you have to
Speaker 1: get up. You have to sit down, like you have
Speaker 1: to just keep getting up. When they need a break,
Speaker 1: you just get up and like are like dance, monkey dance.
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 3: I guess one of the hot shot ones a long
Speaker 3: time ago did a thing with an audience member where
Speaker 3: he like, did it you know that joke where it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: just kiss me on the cheek and then you move
Speaker 3: and you get kissed on the lips. Oh yeah, And
Speaker 3: so this woman ended up suing the network and getting
Speaker 3: all this money because this guy was talented and they
Speaker 3: wanted to protect whatever. And then we were talking about
Speaker 3: it and one comic goes, oh, come on, you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Sue the network.
Speaker 3: I go, you cannot kiss someone without their without say, but.
Speaker 2: You have to say.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't understand how this is even a conversation.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you shouldn't talk about this out loud. You
Speaker 3: think it's okay to trick someone into kissing you on
Speaker 3: the lips and you think, I'm like, he still has
Speaker 3: his job. So I don't know why you're so concerned
Speaker 3: that a corporation lost money. Of course they did, but
Speaker 3: it's like even these little things where it's like what
Speaker 3: world are we living in? Like I have to convince
Speaker 3: it because I'm like, well, let's change it up and
Speaker 3: let's say it was a dude and it was like
Speaker 3: a straight guy who then got tricked into kissing a
Speaker 3: guy on the lips. Are you going to have the
Speaker 3: same reaction. Is it just fun in games? Everyone's chilling cool, Like,
Speaker 3: I'm sure you would think differently about it. I don't
Speaker 3: know it just like I don't know how we even
Speaker 3: got here or how it connected what we were talking about.
Speaker 3: But it was this wild thing of like, oh, the
Speaker 3: lawsuits and stuff. Yeah, but it was this wild thing
Speaker 3: of like, yeah, you can't do that, Yeah I don't.
Speaker 3: And so then it starts little and then it's like,
Speaker 3: when do you stop excusing this stuff?
Speaker 1: Yes, you can kiss someone on the lips at work, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that seems like something. Honestly, that seems like something Greg
Speaker 1: Kelly would do.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: And the audience at the show, there was like two
Speaker 3: lawyers that worked together and they pretended they weren't fucking,
Speaker 3: and it's like we I wouldn't leave them alone, and
Speaker 3: obviously they were fucking. But she kept like, weaseling out
Speaker 3: of my accusations, and I go, are you guys lawyers?
Speaker 2: And she goes, how'd you know? I go, the way
Speaker 2: you're weaseling this stuff? Of course your lawyer is very apparent.
Speaker 1: She's like, how do you know you're of course, we
Speaker 1: love all our listeners that are lawyers. But you guys
Speaker 1: are very good at weaseling out of conversation.
Speaker 3: I'm done doing tangents. Let's move this saloon. Yeah, so sorry.
Speaker 1: Let's get to this week's What would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: You guys know what would Sister Peg Do? It is
Speaker 1: our weekly segment where we point you to a organization,
Speaker 1: a resource, an article, a book, something they can give
Speaker 1: you more info about what we touched on in today's episode.
Speaker 1: And I think this week, since I don't think there's
Speaker 1: a ton of like, hey, don't get involved with an
Speaker 1: Upper east Side madam, advice we can give, I wanted
Speaker 1: to point you all to the BuzzFeed article that Lisa
Speaker 1: used in some of her research from two penty fourteen
Speaker 1: about the Greg Kelly rape allegation. It's titled she Accused
Speaker 1: a TV anchor of rape and got dragged through the tabloids.
Speaker 1: It was written by Jessica Tessa, and, like Lisa mentioned,
Speaker 1: before this article was published, there was so much spin
Speaker 1: going on about how the girl was shady and in
Speaker 1: it for money and in it for fame.
Speaker 2: Of some sort.
Speaker 1: But this article does a good job of laying out
Speaker 1: the events of the crime in an objective manner and
Speaker 1: getting Maria de Toro's side of the story, which I
Speaker 1: think we all should hear. So you can find that
Speaker 1: article on BuzzFeed. We also linked to it in our
Speaker 1: show notes. We also put it on our Instagram stories
Speaker 1: the day that the show is released, and all of
Speaker 1: our what would Sister peg dos are saved into a
Speaker 1: highlight on our Instagram called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Yeah, it was a good read.
Speaker 2: Thank you for highlighting.
Speaker 3: And next week we'll be doing Plastic Season twenty, episode eleven.
Speaker 3: Get ready, bucks, it's wild, it's sexy. Maybe get some lube.
Speaker 3: There will be girls kissing bye guys. See you next week.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email.
Speaker 1: That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's mess step pod
Speaker 3: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 3: personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 2: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien and.
Speaker 2: To our mixer John Bradley.
Speaker 1: And our guest booker, Patrick Cottner, and.
Speaker 3: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen
Speaker 3: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 3: Georgia hard Star, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Speaker 3: Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dun Dun,