Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2: Cowboys Let's go. Are you ready for a break?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Are you ready for a break? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Ready for a break?
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so much for that.
Speaker 1: It's time for the Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: We were right with Mbar Garcia, Brian brought us Patrick
Speaker 1: Walker and Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 6: It is Wednesday, June fifth, twenty twenty four, Season twenty.
Speaker 7: Episode nine.
Speaker 6: Welcome into the Break, presented by LG. I'm Nicole Hutcheson
Speaker 6: alongside Brian brought.
Speaker 7: Us in Patrick No C. Walker.
Speaker 6: By the way, I was seven years old when this
Speaker 6: show is.
Speaker 4: How are we starting? Oh yeah, we're just going to
Speaker 4: jump right into jump right.
Speaker 7: Hey man, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I got an old
Speaker 7: seasoned how y'all doing? It's my first time. I want
Speaker 7: to show with you all.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what excited.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we got the uh yeah, we got the word
Speaker 8: that you're coming on board.
Speaker 2: So nice to have you.
Speaker 7: Nice to have you guys here with me as well.
Speaker 6: But a lot of things to talk about, obviously, ceedee
Speaker 6: lamb uh. The topic of discussion not at mini camp
Speaker 6: missing mandatory mini camp obviously awaiting a contract, a big
Speaker 6: contract as we can expect, and we know that Jerry
Speaker 6: Jones said that, you know the leaves, he was waiting
Speaker 6: for the leaves to fall. Well, another leaf, big leaf
Speaker 6: fell with Justin Jefferson's contract and one hundred and ten million,
Speaker 6: four years guaranteed eighty eight million upfront, averaging thirty five
Speaker 6: million per year. I mean, guys, I've got to ask
Speaker 6: with this one. I mean, how urgent is this contract now?
Speaker 7: Considering the things?
Speaker 9: Well, it's the red wood tree is falling is what
Speaker 9: basically has occurred. But up to this point, the reason
Speaker 9: discussions between Ceedee Lamb and the organization has stalled is
Speaker 9: because a number hadn't been put out there yet. It
Speaker 9: was kind of like what Brian said a couple episodes
Speaker 9: ago in that these agents they know each other well
Speaker 9: and they play they use it to play the market in.
Speaker 4: Each other's favor.
Speaker 9: So Justin Jefferson's agents waiting for Ceedee Lamb to get done.
Speaker 9: Ceedee Lamb is waiting for Justin Jefferson to get done.
Speaker 9: You got Jamar Chase in the mix, and then to
Speaker 9: a lesser degree, you got guys like t Higgins and
Speaker 9: those guys out in San Francisco. But with Justin Jefferson landon,
Speaker 9: now the mark has been set right. So now if
Speaker 9: you're a CD Lamb's agent, now you can go to
Speaker 9: Stephen Jones, Jerry Jones and you can say this is
Speaker 9: the number, here's where we're going to start this conversation,
Speaker 9: and that should expedite things at this point. That combined
Speaker 9: with the fact that Ceedee Lamb's absence is drawing him
Speaker 9: fines from being absent from mini camp. So I think
Speaker 9: that this week, with Justin Jefferson's deal landing, I think
Speaker 9: that puts a lot of fire to get this deal done.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, and that's a legitimate number, thirty five
Speaker 8: million dollars.
Speaker 2: I was asking around the league and when you talk about.
Speaker 8: The other wide receivers, you know Hill and guys like
Speaker 8: that there, but you're you know, saying, oh, well, this
Speaker 8: is thety million dollar receiver. You know, the cap guys
Speaker 8: are all telling me, No, that's a twenty four million
Speaker 8: dollar deal. No, that's a twenty seven million dollar deal.
Speaker 8: You just got to look at the back end of
Speaker 8: these contracts and see, you know where that number is.
Speaker 8: And I asked about this one. I said, is this
Speaker 8: one of those contracts that thirty five million is not
Speaker 8: the legitimate number? And my guy goes, oh, no, that's
Speaker 8: a legitimate number right there. So that's where you're going
Speaker 8: to start playing. And I think the thing that we
Speaker 8: have to know is that my experience with the Joneses
Speaker 8: is that when you negotiate with the Joneses, if you
Speaker 8: don't try and reset the market, you tend to do
Speaker 8: a little bit better. You know, they they'll get you close,
Speaker 8: and you know, CD will argue, well, hey, you know
Speaker 8: justin Jefferson, one of the best. Look at the numbers,
Speaker 8: look at the comparisons and all that. But you know,
Speaker 8: if you look at how Diggs this deal got done,
Speaker 8: it wasn't the one that reset the cornerback market. Put
Speaker 8: him in the ballpark where it wasn't very to call
Speaker 8: the role. Wasn't a lot of guys to call the
Speaker 8: It was a few guys, but he was right in
Speaker 8: that group right there. And I think the Joneses understand
Speaker 8: that part of it. They don't want to reset the market.
Speaker 8: They've done some resetting markets before with if you look
Speaker 8: at Ezekiel Elliott and.
Speaker 2: Some things like that.
Speaker 8: But they're more likely to get a deal done if
Speaker 8: you come in at or slightly below. And you know,
Speaker 8: if you're Ceedee Lamb, making thirty three thirty four million
Speaker 8: dollars a year is as a pretty significant jump for him,
Speaker 8: and it puts him in that conversation, you know. I mean,
Speaker 8: and there's a lot of pride with these guys, the
Speaker 8: highest paid guy and all that. But you know, sometimes
Speaker 8: you've got to be able to read the room. And
Speaker 8: I think that's what Ceedee Lamb and his his agent
Speaker 8: need to do. Read the room, kind of look at
Speaker 8: some previous contracts that have been done here and it'll
Speaker 8: probably give you a better understanding of how you need
Speaker 8: to operate to get this thing done.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 9: I do believe that the Cowboys are on making the
Speaker 9: deal comparable.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Absolutely always been averse to setting the market. They've not
Speaker 9: always been able to avoid doing so. Ezekiel Elliot, Dak Prescott,
Speaker 9: Dak Prescott likely again here soon, but it'll be interesting
Speaker 9: to see where they split the baby. For lack of
Speaker 9: a better way to put it is, are you looking
Speaker 9: at Ceedy Lamb. Maybe he comes in at an aas
Speaker 9: average annual salary of thirty six which puts him over
Speaker 9: Justin Jefferson, but maybe the guaranteed is one oh eight
Speaker 9: one O nine, one O five something like that. Or
Speaker 9: in verse, maybe they give him, you know, one hundred
Speaker 9: and eleven million guaranteed, but the average annual is like
Speaker 9: thirty four something like that. So it'll be interesting. But
Speaker 9: this Justin Jefferson deal is going to be the catalyst
Speaker 9: to this deal getting done here soon.
Speaker 6: For the numbers that Ceedee Lamb did put up in
Speaker 6: twenty twenty three, what's what's the number that you guys
Speaker 6: feel is realistic for CD to receive.
Speaker 9: For me, as long as it's comparable, I think that
Speaker 9: there there's an argument to be made for ceed Lamb
Speaker 9: being the best wide receiver in the league. There's also
Speaker 9: an argument for Justin Jefferson to be, you know, argued
Speaker 9: as the best wide receiver in the league. And because
Speaker 9: of that, for me, it's always been over thirty.
Speaker 4: So it's never been under thirty.
Speaker 9: So for those that have having that conversation, oh, we
Speaker 9: don't want to pay the wide receiver thirty outside of
Speaker 9: the building conversations, you've not been paying attention to the market, right,
Speaker 9: So it's always been over thirty Stephen Jones basically said
Speaker 9: that during his draft press conferences. But now that we
Speaker 9: know Justin Jefferson is mid thirties, and honestly, that's a
Speaker 9: little bit surprising because I thought Justin Jefferson would land
Speaker 9: a little bit closer to forty.
Speaker 4: So the fact that.
Speaker 9: He came in at thirty five, I'm completely comfortable with
Speaker 9: Ceede Lamb at thirty five or even thirty six. It's
Speaker 9: more so, especially in the NFL, it's about the guaranteed
Speaker 9: money more than it is the max contract value, because,
Speaker 9: as we well know, in this industry, in this particular sport,
Speaker 9: you might not play out your entire contract. So it's
Speaker 9: about getting as much guaranteed money as you can.
Speaker 8: Yeah, a couple of things are really kind of dangerous
Speaker 8: here for the Vikings, and maybe a positive as well,
Speaker 8: dealing with a rookie contract with JJ McCarthy. So now
Speaker 8: they're not paying their quarterback fifty million dollars, you know,
Speaker 8: So that's a little bit easier for them to swallow.
Speaker 8: The thing about it now is will Justin Jefferson's numbers
Speaker 8: go south because of a rookie quarterback in development? There
Speaker 8: at least the first couple of years of the deal
Speaker 8: until maybe JJ McCarthy figures things out, maybe JJ McCarthy
Speaker 8: doesn't figure it out at all, And now all of
Speaker 8: a sudden, you've got a quarter a wide receiver that's
Speaker 8: making thirty five million dollars a year and his numbers
Speaker 8: go from one hundred and twelve receptions to seventy six
Speaker 8: because you have a quarterback that's not able to get
Speaker 8: him the ball with any consistency because he's learning. The
Speaker 8: one advantage that Ceedee Lamb does have is, at least
Speaker 8: for one more season, is Dak Prescott throwing him the football.
Speaker 8: You know those will be Ceedee Lamb is the one
Speaker 8: guy when you always in front offices, you always worry
Speaker 8: about these contracts and you're worried, like, well, the guy
Speaker 8: live up to the contract.
Speaker 2: I see Ceedee Lamb living up to his contract. There's
Speaker 2: not a.
Speaker 8: Lot of guys I can say that about. But he
Speaker 8: has gotten better every year that he's played in this league.
Speaker 8: So to me, there's some justification for paying this guy
Speaker 8: what he deserves because every year he has gotten better.
Speaker 6: And to kind of piggyback off of that, something that
Speaker 6: all of the guys have said with Michael McCarthy. Being
Speaker 6: under the system calling the plays one more year and
Speaker 6: having already done it before, it's really helped, and I
Speaker 6: feel like they're a lot more confident and being under
Speaker 6: that system already.
Speaker 7: But I'm sorry, Patrick, I didn't mean.
Speaker 6: To cut you offly, No, no, Yeah, that was.
Speaker 7: Just something that just kind of piggyback of what Brian said.
Speaker 9: Yeah, what I was going to also add is the
Speaker 9: intangible of the chemistry between Dak Prescott and Ceedee Lamb.
Speaker 9: How does that, how does one and how will one
Speaker 9: contract play into the expediency of the other one getting done. So,
Speaker 9: assuming Ceedee Lamb's get gets done first for obvious reasons,
Speaker 9: because Ceedee Lamb isn't in a situation where a rookie
Speaker 9: quarterback is coming in, this chemistry is already established. The
Speaker 9: Cowboys have hard data, hard evidence to say, if you
Speaker 9: want Ceedee Lamb to continue playing at the level that
Speaker 9: you just saw him playing at, you have the quarterback
Speaker 9: in the building to continue to do that going into
Speaker 9: the future. So once Ceedee Lambs deal gets done, presumably
Speaker 9: it will here soon in the next few weeks, maybe
Speaker 9: in the next few days, maybe today, who knows, Then
Speaker 9: the Cowboys then have to look at Ceede lamb AND's
Speaker 9: and Dak Prescott and say, hey, we don't want to
Speaker 9: break up this tandem because we know how dynamic this
Speaker 9: can be. So I really think that one plays into
Speaker 9: the other favorably.
Speaker 6: And also to make sure that everyone understands he has
Speaker 6: been engaged.
Speaker 7: Michae McCarthy didn't.
Speaker 2: Use that word. He's the worst.
Speaker 7: He's that word in the press conference multiple times. He
Speaker 7: has been engaged.
Speaker 6: He has been in contact with the coaches. So no
Speaker 6: concerns there. But do you feel like there's a little
Speaker 6: bit of cohesion? I guess issues that will are concerned
Speaker 6: about the cohesion as far as the other guys, and
Speaker 6: like Jalen Brooks, maybe a Jaalen Tolber, do you feel
Speaker 6: like there's anything there?
Speaker 4: No, No, I.
Speaker 2: Don't think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 8: The thing the thing that's interesting about the you talk
Speaker 8: about Lamb holding out though, and and the cohesion and stuff.
Speaker 2: He's seen this done before.
Speaker 8: If you look at and in a and if you
Speaker 8: look at previous we call them holdouts. But guys that
Speaker 8: don't show up. You've seen it with Ezekiel Elliott saw
Speaker 8: it was Zach Martin with her own eyes last year,
Speaker 8: We're all at training camp kind of waiting. We're watching
Speaker 8: the we're watching the right tackle, the right guard spot.
Speaker 8: We're going, well, looks kind of bad out there without
Speaker 8: Zach Martin playing right guard.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 8: And so and I think the Cowboys are you know,
Speaker 8: their eyes aren't lying. We were watching the same thing.
Speaker 8: And so now you're you're sitting there and they've they've,
Speaker 8: they've had a they've had a history. And I hate
Speaker 8: to use the word cave, and it's not cave. It's okay,
Speaker 8: let's do this, let's come to this, let's do this now.
Speaker 8: And so his strategy is a proven one when you
Speaker 8: deal with the front office of the Dallas Cowboys. And
Speaker 8: I mean that in no disrespect, but agents, look at this.
Speaker 8: Look at Dak Prescott's he's he's totally comfortable right now
Speaker 8: of you know, like I've seen this done before. I've
Speaker 8: they've they've, they've you know, they they they maybe wait
Speaker 8: a little bit, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: he got maybe twenty more million dollars than he would
Speaker 8: have got if he would have signed. So being patient
Speaker 8: against this front office and a meanness and no disrespect
Speaker 8: generally will reward you. Yeah, and so I understand his strategy,
Speaker 8: I really really do.
Speaker 9: Yeah, And when it comes to the cohesion part of it,
Speaker 9: I don't see this as being an issue at all
Speaker 9: because not only has Ceedee Lamb remained engaged, that's the
Speaker 9: key word, this entire time, he's also been in contact
Speaker 9: with his guys Dak Prescott and these wide receivers outside
Speaker 9: of the building as far as you know, workouts and
Speaker 9: things like that.
Speaker 4: And keep in mind, these guys do a lot of
Speaker 4: work in the dockyard.
Speaker 9: Is well dockyard, Yeah, right, so you know, as far
Speaker 9: as chemistry and cohesion, that's not going anywhere. That's not
Speaker 9: going to be a big thing. The only thing that
Speaker 9: it the only instance that it would be become an
Speaker 9: issue issue being used very lightly. Here is a rookie
Speaker 9: like Ryan Floorinoy who wants to get with Ceedee Lamb
Speaker 9: as quickly as possible. But until Lamb gets here gets
Speaker 9: what he gets to attach himself to, guys like Brandon
Speaker 9: Cooks gets to attach himself to you know, Jalen Brooks
Speaker 9: and Jalen Tobert and guys who've already been here. So
Speaker 9: when Ceedee Lamb does come in the building, also keeping
Speaker 9: in mind that not only is he the definitive leader
Speaker 9: of that wide receiver room, but this is the same
Speaker 9: offense so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be the issue.
Speaker 8: Yeah, if this was, if this was what we're with,
Speaker 8: if Ceedee Lamb was a defensive player, you know now now, yeah, Well,
Speaker 8: the thing with michaeh and I've learned this and I
Speaker 8: know you, I know you'll probably get into this that
Speaker 8: the thing about with Michael.
Speaker 2: We'll do that later, but right now, finish the sink.
Speaker 8: The fact that it's the same offense and the same
Speaker 8: the same scheme and same ideas and same coaches and
Speaker 8: all that, that's a totally different thing on the defensive
Speaker 8: side of the ball, No, for sure.
Speaker 6: And I think it also kind of helps, kind of
Speaker 6: going back to Patrick's point, helps Jalen Brooks, Jalen Tolbert.
Speaker 7: Get first team reps and patches.
Speaker 6: How much do you feel like that kind of benefits them?
Speaker 5: Though?
Speaker 7: From y'all's points, huge, it's huge.
Speaker 9: Obviously the Cowboys would love Ceede Lamb to here in
Speaker 9: the building taking these reps. That goes without saying, but
Speaker 9: the silver lining to him not being here also knowing
Speaker 9: that he's still preparing outside of the building. He's still
Speaker 9: engaged with his coaches, his players, his quarterback. It also
Speaker 9: gives you the opportunity to look at Jaylen Tobin and say,
Speaker 9: you know what, we just moved on from Michael Gallup.
Speaker 9: So here's some more reps for you. Let's see what
Speaker 9: you can do. Jalen Brooks of former seventh round pick
Speaker 9: going in the year two. You did some good things
Speaker 9: when given an opportunity last year. Let's get you some
Speaker 9: first team reps. And that started as recently as OTA's
Speaker 9: and continued in yesterday's first A mini camp on first team.
Speaker 9: So you saw those guys getting reps. But that also
Speaker 9: elevates because of rising tide. Right, So a rookie like
Speaker 9: Ryan Floyd Noy, who might more so be relegated to
Speaker 9: third team on the outset, now he gets elevated to
Speaker 9: doing some second team reps with Cooper Rush and Trey Lance.
Speaker 9: So I mean, until Ceedeelamb gets in the building, these
Speaker 9: young men have to take advantage of these extra opportunities.
Speaker 8: I think you're seeing example too, you know, with like
Speaker 8: you say, the various receivers, it appears to me that
Speaker 8: they're trying to get a lot more of these guys
Speaker 8: is involved in trying to figure out some some some
Speaker 8: scheme things that they can do with the you know,
Speaker 8: because they they've got they've got a bunch of talented guys.
Speaker 8: It's just a matter of Okay, who fits in this
Speaker 8: role here? You know, we go eleven personnel, who's the slot,
Speaker 8: who's the outside guy? Who?
Speaker 2: You know? So it does.
Speaker 8: It gives guys a lot of opportunity. Turpin was a
Speaker 8: guy yesterday. That Turpin was.
Speaker 2: A guy, you know.
Speaker 8: And and I hope I'm not giving government secrets here away.
Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes you have to.
Speaker 8: You have to. You have to be careful because you
Speaker 8: can only shoot it during period one or period three,
Speaker 8: not period five or period six. But they go third
Speaker 8: and one right off the jump, and I'm not going
Speaker 8: to tell you how they did it, but they first
Speaker 8: two plays at third and one short yards where they
Speaker 8: do they get the ball to Turpin? You know, And
Speaker 8: so you know, that's one of those things where you're like, oh, okay.
Speaker 4: Got a lot of burn, a lot of targets in there.
Speaker 9: Sure days as well, Sure did perfect example of not
Speaker 9: being in the building. Let's see what Turpin can do
Speaker 9: in different situations, in different schematics. So Turpin is definitely
Speaker 9: someone to keep an eye on, not just as Ceede
Speaker 9: Lamb is absent, but even when Ceede Lamb comes back,
Speaker 9: because the way Urpin is showing up, I mean he's
Speaker 9: He's really showing up with these catches. I've not seen
Speaker 9: a drop yet from Cavante Turping. His routes are as
Speaker 9: crisp as I've ever seen, and his confidence in sky high.
Speaker 9: So when you talk about duce Vaughn starting to get
Speaker 9: some reps at slot, Jalen Toberts and the Jalen brooks
Speaker 9: Is of the world and even Ryan Floydnois, they're going
Speaker 9: to have their hands full with keeping Cavante Turpin off
Speaker 9: of their field on offense.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and Turpin, obviously, you saw his time on offense
Speaker 6: offensive snaps kind of diminished a little bit towards the
Speaker 6: end of the season in twenty twenty three, but I'm
Speaker 6: expecting to see a lot from him. But Deuce Vaughn
Speaker 6: taking some reps of the slot, I mean, realistically, do
Speaker 6: you feel like we may see a little bit of
Speaker 6: that in the season.
Speaker 8: Dan, I worry about things like this, and I tell
Speaker 8: you why I worry, because now they're hunting a position.
Speaker 8: They could sell it as being versatile, but anytime that
Speaker 8: you continually try, and you know, like if he if
Speaker 8: he was really a things were working out for him
Speaker 8: really well at running back, they wouldn't move him to
Speaker 8: the slot receiver. And I noticed it last week when
Speaker 8: we were watching practice. I'm sitting there with Jane Slater
Speaker 8: and I'm going, h, Deuce is standing with the wide receivers.
Speaker 8: Here is they're going on the field, off and on
Speaker 8: the field. He's not standing with the running back group.
Speaker 8: He's standing with the wide receivers. And then you know,
Speaker 8: she asked the question. A lot of people asked the
Speaker 8: question afterwards, and then he gave us the Cole Beasley
Speaker 8: line and stuff like that. I, as a personal guy,
Speaker 8: would worry because then the coaches are telling me, this
Speaker 8: guy we brought in, I don't have a real plan
Speaker 8: for him right now at running back. So I'm going
Speaker 8: to try and find something else for him to do
Speaker 8: and hopefully it works out for him. Hopefully that part
Speaker 8: of it works out, because there was a fourth and
Speaker 8: two play last week and Cooper rushed threw him a
Speaker 8: little out route there and he got the first down.
Speaker 8: So maybe there are some things that they could do,
Speaker 8: but man, he is going to have to play special teams.
Speaker 8: He's gonna have when they dress forty eight. This isn't
Speaker 8: like Kansas State where they dress seventy you know, play football.
Speaker 8: They're just forty eight here in this league, and to
Speaker 8: be one of the forty eight, you got to be
Speaker 8: bringing some plays to the game.
Speaker 9: They're doing what we have kind of been pounding the
Speaker 9: table this offseason for them to do, which is trying
Speaker 9: to figure out a role for Douce Vaughan, trying to
Speaker 9: have to keep him on this roster. Yeah, but it
Speaker 9: is concerning, like Brian said, because if you look at
Speaker 9: other names from other positions, Isaac allacol Right didn't work
Speaker 9: out offensive line, they tried him at the defensive line.
Speaker 9: Josh Ball didn't work out at the edge, that they
Speaker 9: moving him to the inside. When they when you get
Speaker 9: your position changed, it's kind of indicative of you not
Speaker 9: succeeding quickly enough in the position that they drafted you
Speaker 9: in or signed you in.
Speaker 4: So when we look.
Speaker 8: At another guy, to me, I keep watching Golston play
Speaker 8: tackle in and tackle and I'm like, you know, when
Speaker 8: you don't have one spot and I'm sorry I completely
Speaker 8: interrupted you there, but.
Speaker 2: It was just when you when you don't.
Speaker 8: They did it with Tyrone Crawford too, during the Rod
Speaker 8: muyn Ellie administrator up down with yeah it also he's
Speaker 8: playing three.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's a great three.
Speaker 8: No, we need him in now, you know, and now
Speaker 8: and now he's out of the league, and you're like going, wow,
Speaker 8: that was kind of a waste. You look at somebody's
Speaker 8: the mccualmu nishn Wright, these guys safety corner slot where
Speaker 8: and then they're not playing anywhere and you're like going, okay,
Speaker 8: well there was another another one of those. But when
Speaker 8: you get to this point where you're trying to move
Speaker 8: guys around, you don't have a spot for him right now.
Speaker 9: And here's what makes it a bit more concerning if
Speaker 9: you're looking at it from a Deuce Vaughan perspective, is
Speaker 9: that the running backs room is stacked with bodies. Okay,
Speaker 9: so they're trying to figure out if you can contribute
Speaker 9: in the wide receiver's room. But the wide receiver's room
Speaker 9: is even more stacked with bodies. And you just finished
Speaker 9: talking about Cavante and now you know that CD can
Speaker 9: play all three positions. In Jalen Tolbert Cooks, Cooks of
Speaker 9: Jalen Brooks. He can operate out of the slot as well.
Speaker 9: My point being, the path doesn't get any easier as
Speaker 9: a wide receiver. So if you're duce Von, you're really
Speaker 9: gonna have to start showing something either or running back
Speaker 9: or as a wide receiver. But to Brian's point, you
Speaker 9: also have to figure out how to carve out some
Speaker 9: reps on special teams. You're gonna have to figure that out.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 9: Maybe the way the new kickoff rules are set up,
Speaker 9: typically you want some big about, you want some linebackers
Speaker 9: and stuff like that. But figure out how to get
Speaker 9: Ducevon involved in two facets of the game to get
Speaker 9: the value there. But what might also work in his
Speaker 9: favor is there's chemistry coming in by the way of
Speaker 9: Cooper bb Right, the former Kansas state lineman.
Speaker 4: Who has blocked for Duzvon.
Speaker 9: So maybe that familiarity in that chemistry will help him
Speaker 9: from a running back position. But the thing with jus
Speaker 9: Von is right now they're trying to figure out how
Speaker 9: to get him into space.
Speaker 2: I've got I've got a question for both you and
Speaker 2: I know you probably got to take a break, so
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 8: Want to know if I don't go for it. Think
Speaker 8: the third running back is on this team currently as
Speaker 8: we speak, but.
Speaker 4: He's a full back.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, But I just I like the way they I.
Speaker 8: Think you're going to carry four. I think you're gonna
Speaker 8: carry for because that means you're probably gonna carry. Now,
Speaker 8: you got to think about these tight ends. You talked
Speaker 8: about a stacked room.
Speaker 2: When you're dealing with numbers.
Speaker 8: Okay, if you consider Hunter Lipkey is on this team,
Speaker 8: don't consider the third running back. You probably I don't
Speaker 8: know if they'll I don't think they'll cut I don't
Speaker 8: think they'll cut Zeke. I don't And I think Rico.
Speaker 8: I think Rico's Yeah, But is the third running back
Speaker 8: on this currently on this team, I think, and I
Speaker 8: just say the third guy. It doesn't have to be
Speaker 8: the third special teams, but just the guy, you think,
Speaker 8: do you think because we I don't know if the
Speaker 8: starting running backs on this team, I don't know that.
Speaker 4: I think they're opening.
Speaker 9: I think they're open to the reality that the third
Speaker 9: running back may not be on the team right now
Speaker 9: as we enter a training camp. But I don't foresee
Speaker 9: them making any moves prior to training camp to you
Speaker 9: add to that position because they want to see what
Speaker 9: Royce Freeman looks like versus Snoop Connor looks like at
Speaker 9: RB three, And assuming that you pull Hunter lip Key
Speaker 9: out and you drop him in his own bucket at
Speaker 9: full back, because I do believe he's made the team,
Speaker 9: he's going to be on. Yeah, and they're just going
Speaker 9: to let the thing play out in training camp. But
Speaker 9: I really believe in my heart of hearts that if
Speaker 9: things don't start shaking out the way they want in
Speaker 9: training camp, then before the regular season kicks.
Speaker 2: Off, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 6: I think it'll be interesting to see how, you know,
Speaker 6: how McCarthy used the running backs the wide receivers in
Speaker 6: the past. In the running back game, I think that
Speaker 6: it'll be interesting to see if you know, maybe he
Speaker 6: uses more of turpin coming out of the backfield, maybe
Speaker 6: use I don't know, Ceedee Lamb like he did a
Speaker 6: few times last year. So I think that if they
Speaker 6: don't find the running back number three, then you've got
Speaker 6: to just be creative with the guys that you already
Speaker 6: have at receiver.
Speaker 9: True problem being is that while Ceedee Lamb was very
Speaker 9: effective being used as a running back. Cavante Turpin was
Speaker 9: not necessarily so it could break left where it could
Speaker 9: break right in that capacity, So.
Speaker 4: You don't want to have to.
Speaker 9: It's fine if it's a special package that you pull
Speaker 9: out every once in a while and you say, hey,
Speaker 9: we're gonna, you know, throw curveball to the defense. Ceed Lamb.
Speaker 9: This is going to be your handoff. Gavante Turpin, this
Speaker 9: is going to be your handoff. That's much different than
Speaker 9: saying we are so deficient at running back that we're
Speaker 9: going to consistently go into every game with the game
Speaker 9: plan of using a wide receiver as kind of a
Speaker 9: third running back.
Speaker 6: That's not what you want to do, all right, Well,
Speaker 6: we are just getting started with things here. On the
Speaker 6: break we've touched on wide receiver CD Lamb is obviously
Speaker 6: not present, but Michael Parsons is.
Speaker 7: We'll be breaking that down coming.
Speaker 6: Up in the next break you're watching the Cowboys break
Speaker 6: will be right back.
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Speaker 12: Cowboys fans, after that move, we've just coined the term
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Speaker 2: Let's roll back the table.
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Speaker 12: Staying on top of his finances with his virtual financial
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Speaker 3: Welcome back into Dear Doctor the show where I answer
Speaker 3: life's questions with an ice cold can of doctor Pepper. Sheila,
Speaker 3: let's hear from my next caller, Would.
Speaker 7: You, dear doctor?
Speaker 12: My friend supported me during a tough time.
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Speaker 3: Okay, this one's easy, I say, give her a delicious
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Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: Just a reminder that I don't need to be a
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Speaker 8: Back to the break, Enjoy excellent dining in boutique shopping,
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Speaker 6: The Star District has a lot of Star restaurants for
Speaker 6: the Cowboys have their Star pass rust back here in
Speaker 6: the Star somebody, but no, I.
Speaker 13: Mean he was not.
Speaker 6: He did not attend OTAs, but he is very present
Speaker 6: at many e mandatory mini camp. But you just got
Speaker 6: to pose this question first. You know, how big is
Speaker 6: it having Michael Parsons back in this building.
Speaker 9: It's big because you know, speaking for myself, I wanted
Speaker 9: him in the building prior to now.
Speaker 4: And I get it. What do voluntarily mean? Shouts out
Speaker 4: to Hambrick, I get it.
Speaker 9: That being said, unlike Ceedee Lamb's side of the ball,
Speaker 9: the defense has a massive tectonic shift happening. You know,
Speaker 9: from Dan Quinn's regime going to Mike Zimmers regime, you
Speaker 9: have coaching turnover at almost every level of the defensive
Speaker 9: coaching staff and in addition to that, obviously you have
Speaker 9: the rookies coming in that you want to, you know,
Speaker 9: try to get him mentoring and things like that, so
Speaker 9: much more to figure out on the defense side of
Speaker 9: the ball. I would have loved to see Micah here
Speaker 9: prior to mandatory mini camp, but that was then.
Speaker 4: This is now.
Speaker 9: He is in the building, he's on the field effective yesterday.
Speaker 9: So it's big because it'll help him immediately. And we'll
Speaker 9: talk about this in a second. Immediately get to work
Speaker 9: with Mike Zimmer and figuring out what his role is
Speaker 9: going to be.
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty four.
Speaker 7: What about you, Brian?
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, this is something I've said on a
Speaker 8: couple of different platforms now and I believe this. And
Speaker 8: I'd be interested if you probably pulled Mike aside and
Speaker 8: put your arm around him and just had a conversation
Speaker 8: with him. I'd like to ask him. You hate classroom football,
Speaker 8: doesn't you? You hate being in the classroom and talking
Speaker 8: about football. Love to play the game, You love to
Speaker 8: be on the field, love to rush the passer. You're
Speaker 8: one of the best pass rushers I think I've seen.
Speaker 8: I've been around the Reggie Whites and guys like that.
Speaker 8: I've been around some great pass rushers. You're one of
Speaker 8: the best I've seen. But you hate classroom football, don't you.
Speaker 8: I bet you he would tell me he does. I
Speaker 8: think Michah Parsons doesn't like the ota aspects of classroom football.
Speaker 8: You know, he's talking about taking care of his body
Speaker 8: and stuff like that, which he does, and he talks about,
Speaker 8: but you don't go out and wrestle sumo people, you know,
Speaker 8: and potentially he described it as potentially concussion every time
Speaker 8: you butted heads with those guys. How about blowing out
Speaker 8: an achilles trying to keep a three hundred and twenty
Speaker 8: pound man from moving you right, that things, Micah's going
Speaker 8: to do what Michah wants to do. Micah hates being
Speaker 8: in the classroom. The coaches will tell you, Michael will
Speaker 8: bounce from classroom to classroom. He'll show up in the
Speaker 8: wide receiver room, show up in the running back room,
Speaker 8: show up at the quarterbacks. You know, Micah loves rushing
Speaker 8: the passer.
Speaker 2: Michael didn't want to be an off ball linebacker. You
Speaker 2: have to study, have to figure those things out, have
Speaker 2: to watch tape. Look what the great ones did.
Speaker 8: The dat wins the dexter Kochi's the guys that came
Speaker 8: before him, those guys that I've been around, had to study.
Speaker 8: Sean Lee, God, dang, you had to study. You have
Speaker 8: to sit there and all day and watch film. Leyton
Speaker 8: vander Esh have to sit there and watch film all
Speaker 8: day to be good at this rushing the pastor's mom
Speaker 8: and dad. That's a God given talent right there, you know.
Speaker 8: And I think Michaeh. Parsons he just I wish he'd
Speaker 8: just honestly saying he's been real honest what she just
Speaker 8: honestly say?
Speaker 2: I hate the classroom aspect of football. He's That's why
Speaker 2: I don't like OTAs.
Speaker 4: He's really he's more than hinting at it. I mean,
Speaker 4: he's he's almost there. That's the one to say that directly.
Speaker 9: I know we're going to play some sound quotes, but
Speaker 9: something yesterday that he said that I put in the
Speaker 9: story on the dot com quote it's hard for it's
Speaker 9: hard to coach someone without pads or true contact and
Speaker 9: hand points. It's not even realistic when you can't touch
Speaker 9: each other without losing a draft pick.
Speaker 4: It's outrageous.
Speaker 9: That tells you that he's frustrated with the ota portion
Speaker 9: of it, where it's just showing up, walking through, sitting
Speaker 9: in the meeting room, not being able to put your hands.
Speaker 4: On people play football.
Speaker 9: He wants to play football, So to Brian's point, he's
Speaker 9: that kind of a football player.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And also to Brian's point, he said, Michael is
Speaker 6: gonna do what Michael wants to do.
Speaker 7: He made that very clear on the press conference. Yes,
Speaker 7: and third person, let's go ahead take a listen to
Speaker 7: what he had to say.
Speaker 13: The more years you haven't, the more you understand that
Speaker 13: there's also like the business side to it, and uh,
Speaker 13: you know, whether they like it or not, there's rookies
Speaker 13: or people. I can't with it, not even here anymore,
Speaker 13: you know. And I think that's what camps for. I mean,
Speaker 13: there was a time where Aaron Donald even go to
Speaker 13: camp and he won Defensive Player of the Year and
Speaker 13: he realized team in the playoffs, like are we forgetting
Speaker 13: these times? Like he wasn't talking about the best defensive player,
Speaker 13: wasn't even in camp. And we're in many camp a
Speaker 13: voluntary at that, so you know, camp would say something
Speaker 13: that's mandatory. So I'm just looking at a time from
Speaker 13: my body to hell. I'm playing on my undersized rusher
Speaker 13: who's gets banged up every year. So I'm just letting
Speaker 13: my body here. I'm just trying to grow, strengthen and
Speaker 13: really just get ready.
Speaker 2: For the year in the sumo guys in Tokyo.
Speaker 10: What's else on that he is?
Speaker 2: Yeah? He You know what?
Speaker 8: This is the line nicle that you have to walk
Speaker 8: when you're in a front office or is it on
Speaker 8: a coaching staff?
Speaker 2: Star players?
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 8: Jimmy Johnson, legendary coach Dallas Cowboys, said this, and he
Speaker 8: star players are treated differently.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 8: You understand, Hey, a star player, you're going to do
Speaker 8: it this way. Player forty eight, he's going to get
Speaker 8: treated this way. And Michael Parsons knows that, you know,
Speaker 8: and does Mike Zimmer, Mike Mike McCarthy. Last week for
Speaker 8: you guys in the media was kind of hinting like, hey,
Speaker 8: I'm not happy. I understand. I'm not happy, you know,
Speaker 8: and you know you want all your guys to be here.
Speaker 8: I mean, look at the attendance that they had. They
Speaker 8: you know, there's a couple of guys that had to
Speaker 8: make business decisions. But as a coaching staff in the
Speaker 8: front office. You have to be very careful walking that
Speaker 8: line with your star players because you don't don't want
Speaker 8: to be the guy or gal that says something that
Speaker 8: completely just ticks them off away from what you're trying
Speaker 8: to do. And it's and it's a it's a tough
Speaker 8: tough thing to be in because you do you have
Speaker 8: to walk that line and the players, because their stars
Speaker 8: put you in that position. But you live with it
Speaker 8: because you know your livelihood is depending on number eleven
Speaker 8: putting his hand in the dirt and getting a jail
Speaker 8: and hurts twice a year.
Speaker 9: And once the interview got publicized on social media Twitter specifically, obviously,
Speaker 9: there was a faction of fans that had some outrage
Speaker 9: and then came the you know.
Speaker 4: Trade him for it?
Speaker 9: No, No, that's le's because whether because you got to
Speaker 9: understand that when it comes to a player like Michaeh
Speaker 9: and I mean not only of his caliber on the field,
Speaker 9: but his character, right, there are gonna be times where
Speaker 9: he makes you laugh and he does that and there
Speaker 9: are gonna be times where he makes you cringe with
Speaker 9: the sound. But you don't trade Lawrence Taylor. You manage
Speaker 9: Lawrence Taylor. You get the right people in as Bill Parcells,
Speaker 9: you get the right people in the management. And there's
Speaker 9: a story that I was reminded of Bill Belichick told
Speaker 9: recently about the meeting the team meeting. Lawrence Taylor was
Speaker 9: five or six minutes late to the meeting. Belichick goes
Speaker 9: to Parcels and says, Hey, I just want to let
Speaker 9: you know that lt was late to the meeting. Parcels
Speaker 9: looks at Belichick and says, why do you start the
Speaker 9: meeting before he got there. This is what Brian's talking
Speaker 9: about when you're talking about star players in particularly a
Speaker 9: generational talent. Unfortunately that talent knows their generational talent makes
Speaker 9: them a little bit more difficult to manage. But you
Speaker 9: don't handle them like you handle player fifty three on
Speaker 9: the roster. You just don't because, yeah, you know, let's
Speaker 9: say let's say you did make the mistake of trading Michael. Okay,
Speaker 9: let's say you got a slew of draft picks and
Speaker 9: three of them were edge rushers.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 9: Can you promise me that those three edge rushers combined
Speaker 9: get you the production on an annual basis that Michael Parsons,
Speaker 9: could you can't promise me that, And because you can't
Speaker 9: promise me that, don't make the mistake. So I understand
Speaker 9: that some of the comments fans might find crimsworthy. Okay, fine,
Speaker 9: But I will also say social media didn't exist in
Speaker 9: the LT days, in the Michael Irvin days and the
Speaker 9: Charles Haley days, and if it did, you would understand just.
Speaker 2: How disul be in jail.
Speaker 9: Yeah, you understand just how difficult it can be to
Speaker 9: manage those generational talents. But also you would understand that
Speaker 9: Michael Parsons isn't as bad with some of these sound
Speaker 9: bites in his off the field behavior as some of
Speaker 9: those legends were. So a little bit of grace, well,
Speaker 9: maybe a lot of grace is required here because of
Speaker 9: what he's able to do on the field.
Speaker 6: And when you talk about managing generational talent, that's Mike
Speaker 6: Zimmer's new job now, handling Michael Parsons.
Speaker 7: He addressed his communication with him.
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, Yeah, Mike Simmer.
Speaker 8: I could go all the way back with Mike Zimmer
Speaker 8: working in this front office with him and Mike's best
Speaker 8: friend is Deon Sanders. Ye talk about managing somebody, you know,
Speaker 8: are having to manage somebody that didn't like to practice,
Speaker 8: didn't love to play, love to compete, love to play,
Speaker 8: love to play multiple sports, had outside interest, like to fish,
Speaker 8: like to do things other than practice meaningless football. I
Speaker 8: think it for Micah. I think the problem that a
Speaker 8: lot of people have with this whole thing with Micah
Speaker 8: is the leadership talk. And I know we got into
Speaker 8: it a little bit last week. You know, there's different
Speaker 8: ways to be a leader, and you know, when you're
Speaker 8: talking about leadership roles, especially after what happened in that
Speaker 8: Green Bay game, there's a lot of guys that came
Speaker 8: out and we're talking about we need to do this different,
Speaker 8: and the fans are like, wait a minute, you're telling
Speaker 8: me these things, but you're in Philadelphia, you're in Tokyo,
Speaker 8: you're in somewhere else. I think that's the thing that
Speaker 8: people they they want, they want something different. They don't
Speaker 8: want to see what happened in Green Bay again. You know,
Speaker 8: they don't want to see that and whatever that means
Speaker 8: leadership or practicing or whatever, they have to do avoid
Speaker 8: that at all costs.
Speaker 4: But also, I'll add to this conversation for those that.
Speaker 9: Want Michael Parsons to be a choir boy. Are many
Speaker 9: of you not the same fans that were pissed off
Speaker 9: during the Garrett regime at right kind of guy?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 9: Because you said, oh, well, the Cowboys need to get
Speaker 9: some dogs in here. They don't have enough dogs in here.
Speaker 9: They don't have enough guys with just that kind of
Speaker 9: mentality where it's just like I'm just gonna go kill
Speaker 9: somebody on the field and maybe off the field.
Speaker 4: They weren't that choir boy.
Speaker 9: Now Mike McCarthy era the Cowboys, they're less worried about
Speaker 9: choir boys and more worried about getting guys in here
Speaker 9: who can actually be destructive in games at their respective position. Right,
Speaker 9: You can't always have it both ways. So which one
Speaker 9: of those things do you want? Would you prefer to
Speaker 9: give up Michaeh for three rkgs?
Speaker 4: Yeah, who may not.
Speaker 8: Come close to his I will say this, I will
Speaker 8: say this, I think fans want you to have playoff success.
Speaker 8: I think that's where we're at right now. I think
Speaker 8: the fans, you know, if we're in Arizona, Atlanta, Carolina,
Speaker 8: one of these places, they would they would be so
Speaker 8: happy having three twelve win seasons in a row. So, yeah,
Speaker 8: the problem is you get into playoffs and that's where
Speaker 8: the Dak Prescott's take the arrows. That's where the Michael
Speaker 8: Parsons take the arrows because Marcus Lawrence, Yeah, the Marcus.
Speaker 8: That's where the guys take the arrows. Coaching staff takes
Speaker 8: the arrows. Front office takes the arrows. Ownership takes the
Speaker 8: arrows because as a fan, you're like, listen, fine, I'll
Speaker 8: buy the NFC run the East Championship hat. I'll be
Speaker 8: happy to wear that, but what are you giving me
Speaker 8: beyond that? That's where I think fans are now, I
Speaker 8: know what working on one five to three, the fan
Speaker 8: on our shows, this is the This is the first
Speaker 8: time I felt a fan base that is really like
Speaker 8: saying enough and it's and it's spreading out, not just
Speaker 8: a one player. It feels like it's spreading on Dak,
Speaker 8: but all these players, front office, Jerry, all these people
Speaker 8: are feeling that. Stephen Jones, Will McLay, they're all feeling
Speaker 8: that because the fans are like, fine, yeah, great championship,
Speaker 8: NFC's championship shirt. You get your the second seed, you
Speaker 8: get bounced by the seventh seed. You know, you get
Speaker 8: bounced in at San Francisco. There's no shame in that,
Speaker 8: but it's just the way this has happened the last
Speaker 8: thirty years. That's that's where I think the fan base
Speaker 8: is right now. They don't want to hear it anymore, right.
Speaker 8: They want to see They want to see success, and
Speaker 8: not just winning the division success. They want to see
Speaker 8: a lot more. They see They see the Lions.
Speaker 2: Getting to the NFC Championship game, they.
Speaker 8: See other teams, they see Houston getting to the next round,
Speaker 8: they see, you know, like, where's our team here?
Speaker 9: And make no mistake about it, the fans deserve exactly that.
Speaker 9: They deserve a playoff run, They deserve a championship, especially
Speaker 9: for those that are not old enough to have ever experienced.
Speaker 2: I was a young man the last time this team
Speaker 2: won a championship.
Speaker 4: So they absolutely deserve it.
Speaker 9: And there is and I believe going into the season
Speaker 9: this is going to be one of those rare instances
Speaker 9: where a lot of the fan base is going to
Speaker 9: be dissociative until January.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, where they're just.
Speaker 2: Going to agree with you when you said that earlier,
Speaker 2: I totally agree with.
Speaker 9: You're going to enjoy the ride as much as they can,
Speaker 9: but it's going to be right here at Median and
Speaker 9: then it's not until January comes that they're going to
Speaker 9: sit up and say, okay, now, show me what you're
Speaker 9: going to do.
Speaker 2: You go nine and eight and don't make the playoffs.
Speaker 8: Fans are going to be standing at the gates out
Speaker 8: here with the pitchforks and torches and yeah, and they're
Speaker 8: going to be yelling for and you know, there's things
Speaker 8: and there will be changes. Probably the head coach will change,
Speaker 8: maybe the quarterback will change. There's going to be sweeping
Speaker 8: changes here, you know, and that might not be good
Speaker 8: enough for this fan base. It might not be This
Speaker 8: fan base has been spoiled for a lot of years
Speaker 8: of winning games. Trust me, there are some organizations.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 8: Carolina has never had a back to back winning seasons
Speaker 8: in their history there and they've been around since ninety five.
Speaker 2: I know it's not that long, but think about that.
Speaker 8: They've they've never had back to back winning season. I'm
Speaker 8: like Cam Newton, No, Jake Delone, No, they would to
Speaker 8: a super Bowl, no, you know so, But this fan base,
Speaker 8: they I think they've I think they're past their eyeballs now.
Speaker 8: I think there are a lot of things they are
Speaker 8: tolerable of. But I think we're past their eyeballs now.
Speaker 9: And I'll say this, and I'll throw it back to unicole,
Speaker 9: circling back to the leadership aspect of it from Mike,
Speaker 9: And I said this on this very show a few
Speaker 9: weeks ago. I said, not every elite soldier is designed
Speaker 9: to be a general right, And I think that that's
Speaker 9: what Michael Parsons falls into as far as category wise.
Speaker 9: Keep in mind, there are people who are up in
Speaker 9: arms at Ceedee Lamb at certain instances in twenty twenty
Speaker 9: three because they didn't like his meter on the sideline,
Speaker 9: because they didn't necessarily understand how his mind processes things.
Speaker 9: But if you're sitting here telling me that he's not
Speaker 9: the leader of that wide receiver room, I'm telling you
Speaker 9: you're crazy. Brandon Cooks is a leader in that wide
Speaker 9: receiver room. But even Brandon Cooks defers to Cede Lamb.
Speaker 9: So I will I say all that to say the
Speaker 9: expect it's all about managing expectations. You have to know
Speaker 9: with a particular player who has the ability to lead
Speaker 9: production wise versus vocally. Dak Prescott is your vocal leader
Speaker 9: and he can lead by production as well. Micah is
Speaker 9: not the vocal guy, Ceede. Lamb is not the vocal guy,
Speaker 9: but when Lamb and Micah are on the field, that's
Speaker 9: how they lead by example because they're constantly challenging other
Speaker 9: guys to be to the standard, to play to the standard.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, no, ahead, I can agree with that, but
Speaker 6: I think that there's also some level of sense of
Speaker 6: urgency that you have to have, especially in a year
Speaker 6: like this with Michael Parsons and that. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 6: involved in making sure that you're at OTAs, even though
Speaker 6: it's not voluntary, making sure you're you know, everywhere you
Speaker 6: need to be. And granted McCarthy did say in the
Speaker 6: press conference that he had been in the building every
Speaker 6: now and then and engaged engage that.
Speaker 2: Word, but you know, you've got to be had some
Speaker 2: lunch with you.
Speaker 7: But no, I think that there's has.
Speaker 6: Got to be a level of sense of urgency, you know,
Speaker 6: and that means also having more words to say to
Speaker 6: Mike Zimmer. He also addressed that yesterday in the press conference.
Speaker 6: Let's go ahead and take a listen real quick.
Speaker 9: M hm, sorry, it's not firing, give me, but once
Speaker 9: we get it cute up. We'll we'll hear that just
Speaker 9: how interesting the summer is going to be when it
Speaker 9: comes to And Michael Parsons.
Speaker 4: Ready realized in playoffs, like.
Speaker 13: Honestly, man man, Zim probably said it's total words to
Speaker 13: each other. Yeah, he's a he's a very quiet person.
Speaker 13: And all I keep hearing from your coach is like,
Speaker 13: Zim likes it this way. I was like, well, I
Speaker 13: like it, but like, you know, so I can't wait
Speaker 13: to have like ma tru like sit down with him.
Speaker 13: I think it'll be pretty cool because obviously old school mindset,
Speaker 13: old school mentality. But you know, I think he has
Speaker 13: a lot of great players, but he ain't never have
Speaker 13: a Micael before, So it'll be fun and I think
Speaker 13: it's gonna be unique. There's a lot of similarities on
Speaker 13: things how he used me with how Dan used me
Speaker 13: in the system, but he has more twigs in terms
Speaker 13: of how he's going to set things up. And also
Speaker 13: there's some things that I got to get used to too.
Speaker 13: You know, it's gonna be a compromisable relationship. There's one
Speaker 13: things he's like, I'm not gonna give on. I don't
Speaker 13: give on before we.
Speaker 7: Take our second break. I've got to get y'all's thoughts
Speaker 7: real fast. Brian take it away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I've known Mike a long time.
Speaker 4: Nice precursor.
Speaker 8: No, I'll say this though, I think Mike understands. I
Speaker 8: absolutely do, And I think that Mike Zimmer of two
Speaker 8: thousand and three would probably lose his s over that
Speaker 8: Mike Zimmer twenty twenty four. I think he understands, Okay,
Speaker 8: I need this guy for my defense.
Speaker 2: I need this guy.
Speaker 8: I have a weapon here that I can use, and
Speaker 8: we've seen just in some of the practice we saw yesterday,
Speaker 8: moving Mike around a little bit and trying to find spots,
Speaker 8: double a gap, blitzes, things like that. So to me,
Speaker 8: I think that that sit down will be good. But
Speaker 8: I think that Mike Zimmer will look at him in
Speaker 8: the eye and say, man, I need you every day
Speaker 8: during the season. You might go to Tokyo and do
Speaker 8: what you need to do before, but when we're here,
Speaker 8: when this thing starts we land in Oxnard, I need
Speaker 8: you here every day doing this. And Mike's very direct
Speaker 8: about that because if you don't I know this about Mike,
Speaker 8: if you don't know what you're doing, he won't play it.
Speaker 8: Now you're saying broad us, he's got to play Michael Parsons. Yeah,
Speaker 8: but you know what Mike does not. He's not going
Speaker 8: to tolerate what happened in Green Bay. We're busting coverages
Speaker 8: and guys are running free all over the secondary and stuff.
Speaker 8: He's not going to tolerate that. So he's gonna sit
Speaker 8: down with Micah and they're gonna have their back and forth.
Speaker 8: But Zimmer, I think if this was two thousand and three,
Speaker 8: there would be probably a lot of cursing going on
Speaker 8: back and forth. I think Mike's a little bit more like, Okay,
Speaker 8: this is what I need from you, and he'll he'll
Speaker 8: lay out the expectations.
Speaker 4: I think it'll be a firm dialogue.
Speaker 9: I think Micah Parsons is going into the dialogue feeling
Speaker 9: as Okay, I have some points to make and being
Speaker 9: open to hearing right some of the points. And Mike
Speaker 9: Zimmer is gonna go in having the same energy. And
Speaker 9: I don't think you know Zimmer to your point, I
Speaker 9: don't think Zimmer twenty twenty four is the same as
Speaker 9: you know.
Speaker 4: Even Zimmer twenty twenty he was.
Speaker 2: A mean man in two thousand and three, two thousand
Speaker 2: and two, he was mean.
Speaker 9: But that being said, Zimmer said, he's still right out here. Yeah,
Speaker 9: not a few weeks ago, and he said it has
Speaker 9: to be done my way exactly. Quote he exactly has
Speaker 9: to be done my way. So, however, those two need
Speaker 9: to come to that understanding. I think ultimately that is
Speaker 9: the understanding that that will happen. I think Mike's going
Speaker 9: to end up giving more than Mike Zimmer will give
Speaker 9: as far as the supposed compromise that Michael Parsons is
Speaker 9: looking for. But I also feel that if Parsons does,
Speaker 9: then this defense can be much more successful because Zimmer
Speaker 9: obviously that Michael Parsons knows how to play the position
Speaker 9: arguably better than anyone playing in the position right now.
Speaker 9: You can argue Miles Garrett and TJ. Watt obviously, but
Speaker 9: there's also a lot to be said for what Mike
Speaker 9: Zimmer brings to the table. He's been there, he's done that,
Speaker 9: he's seen it, he's coached some of the best, he's
Speaker 9: coached some Hall of famers defensively. So if I'm Michael Parsons, yeah,
Speaker 9: I get it. He's never had a Micah before. But
Speaker 9: you've also never had a Mike Zimmer before.
Speaker 8: Yeah, real quick here though, real quick, there's not a
Speaker 8: lot of time here because, yeah, coaches contracts, we all know,
Speaker 8: we all know what the history is. Right now, all
Speaker 8: these coaches are really on one year's deal, so there's
Speaker 8: not a lot of chance for growth. Whatever agreement they
Speaker 8: come to, it's got to be quick, right, it's got
Speaker 8: to be swift, and it's got to be right now
Speaker 8: because this time next year we might be talking about
Speaker 8: a wholenother thing.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it'll be a very interesting training camp.
Speaker 4: Even Mike I said that. Yeah, at the end of
Speaker 4: all of that thank you and a it was said.
Speaker 9: They was like, ah, it's going to be a fun
Speaker 9: training camp, and he kind of smiled and looked at
Speaker 9: the camp hughes like it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, take that for exactly.
Speaker 7: What it's worth for a lot of battles as well.
Speaker 6: When you talk about this offense, I mean, who will
Speaker 6: emerge as the number four pass catcher?
Speaker 7: This offense found a spark and obviously Lamb Brand.
Speaker 6: Cooks Jake Fergus who were going to break that down
Speaker 6: though coming up in the next break.
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Speaker 6: All right, guys, I know we have a little bit
Speaker 6: left in the show, but it's only right to talk about.
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Speaker 8: All right, carry on, carry on, there we go.
Speaker 6: Uh No, I mean, I know we have a little
Speaker 6: bit left in the show, but it's only right to
Speaker 6: talk about this Cowboys offense, right, I mean you have Jake,
Speaker 6: Jake Ferguson at tight end, Ceedee Lamb and Brandon cooksou
Speaker 6: finishes the top three uh in receiving yards and targets.
Speaker 6: Of course, fourth and fifth were Michael Gallup and Tony Pollard.
Speaker 6: When you you're trying to find that fourth past catcher.
Speaker 7: Who's that guy?
Speaker 4: For me, it's Jake Ferguson, And technically Jake Ferguson is
Speaker 4: your third target.
Speaker 2: I think he's actually the second.
Speaker 4: It might be.
Speaker 8: I think you're going to look up and you're going
Speaker 8: to see at the end of this, when we're all
Speaker 8: breaking this down in this in January or February, whenever
Speaker 8: we do this, that we're going to say that that
Speaker 8: Ceedee Lamb and Jake Ferguson the most two targeted guys,
Speaker 8: and then now it's Cooks and Tolbert and you know
Speaker 8: all the other guys at everybody else.
Speaker 2: I think it's what we're gonna say.
Speaker 4: I think Jake Ferguson goes over thousand yards. I'm putting
Speaker 4: that on the table right now.
Speaker 7: Okay, we're gonna run that back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I think he goes over thousand yards, and I think
Speaker 9: he's definitely a pro bowler, and I think he's in
Speaker 9: the conversation for at minimum second team All Pro.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm going to go.
Speaker 6: With fourth maybe Jayleen Tolbert, And I say that because
Speaker 6: you see the confidence in him this offseason and the
Speaker 6: way that he's carrying himself. He feels more confident, one
Speaker 6: in his ability, but also the fact that he's been
Speaker 6: under Michae McCarthy's system already. What have y'all seen so
Speaker 6: far in mini camp out of Jaalen Tolbert?
Speaker 8: You know last week man was there was just I
Speaker 8: just have this vision of him coming back for the
Speaker 8: ball and I think he got caught between wanting to
Speaker 8: body catch it and hands catch it, and his.
Speaker 2: Body was out of position and Dak hit him.
Speaker 8: Dak hit him right in the middle of the one,
Speaker 8: and but it was to the point where he was
Speaker 8: trying to figure and it was a drop and then
Speaker 8: he came back with another catch and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 8: get him back on track. But I'll tell you what, man,
Speaker 8: there's going to be some competition for that third spot,
Speaker 8: and I a lot of it. We've seen receivers when
Speaker 8: we've been out there in Oxnard. We've seen the All
Speaker 8: Oxnard Receiver team, you know, where these guys have like
Speaker 8: a week of really good practice and then you're doing
Speaker 8: stand ups about man, I'll tell you what, this guy,
Speaker 8: this guy you know place you know, and then and
Speaker 8: then and then two days later you want to go
Speaker 8: into a hole you know, and I'm the same way
Speaker 8: I talk about it on the rail. I got to
Speaker 8: watch this kid looks like he's getting now, you know.
Speaker 8: It's and the next thing you know, he is not
Speaker 8: even on the practice squad, you know, And so that's
Speaker 8: but they've got to avoid that. Playing receiver is so
Speaker 8: difficult in the national football and especially when you go
Speaker 8: through training camp. It's constant running, it's constant soreness, it's
Speaker 8: constant up and down. The consistent receivers, it's like it
Speaker 8: tied in with the with the John Stevens. He was
Speaker 8: able to go through every practice it was the same
Speaker 8: practice in a positive way.
Speaker 2: At receiver.
Speaker 8: You can't have five really good practices and then three
Speaker 8: really bad ones, you know. That's what these guys have
Speaker 8: to avoid and getting ready for this season, and the
Speaker 8: ones that survive it are going to be the one
Speaker 8: that's going to be receiver four, five, and six, and
Speaker 8: everybody else is going to be on the practice squad.
Speaker 9: Well, one thing's for sure, and that is that Jalen
Speaker 9: Tolbert's self confidence is repaired. It is definitely nothing like
Speaker 9: what we saw in year one with him, where he
Speaker 9: was playing he was overthinking versus just simply going out
Speaker 9: there and playing football. So the confidence is there, is
Speaker 9: fully rebuilding, it is glowing. That being said, as we
Speaker 9: watch him take first team reps with Dak Prescott to
Speaker 9: the point of competition, we're also talking about Jaalen Brooks
Speaker 9: taking reps. Yeah, first team reps with Dak Prescott, and
Speaker 9: eventually in training camp you're going to see Ryan Floydoy
Speaker 9: taking reps, taking some snaps with Dak Prescott. And then
Speaker 9: keep in mind you talk about the All ox Gnar
Speaker 9: team Jalen Cropper. He was impressive last year in training
Speaker 9: camp before the injury at the back end of training
Speaker 9: camp kind of derailed his potential rookie season. So, I mean,
Speaker 9: you have so many bodies, so much talent, and then
Speaker 9: you you know that was prior to you going into
Speaker 9: the draft and getting a pure athlete in Floyd NOI
Speaker 9: who he's your definitive X, but I mean his routes
Speaker 9: that he run, they're already better than Michael Gallup's routes.
Speaker 9: So I mean that not to shade Michael Gallup, but
Speaker 9: it is to say that you have a rookie coming
Speaker 9: in who, although he's built like an X, he's more
Speaker 9: athletic than the traditional X, and he can run routes
Speaker 9: better than the traditional X. So that pushes the Jalen
Speaker 9: Toberts and the Jalen Brooks of the world that much
Speaker 9: more so.
Speaker 4: So it's I mean, that's a position.
Speaker 8: That you gotta watch frad of Jerry Madaline. I'm going
Speaker 8: to explain, Jerry, X receiver plays on the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 8: So the Z, when you hear the Z, that's the move.
Speaker 8: That's the motion guy. So if you always hear somebody
Speaker 8: and Patrick just talked about the X, that's the guy
Speaker 8: that stands on the line of scrimmage and runs the
Speaker 8: slants and things like that.
Speaker 2: The big the bigger generally the bigger body receiver. So
Speaker 2: I had to do that because j j.
Speaker 4: Jerry, because we're meeting with Jerry next week.
Speaker 2: Jerry.
Speaker 8: Jerry will remind you that, like when you talk that way,
Speaker 8: you have to you have to explain what a three
Speaker 8: technique is. You have to explain you know, under tackle,
Speaker 8: you have to explain these things. But yeah, I'll you know,
Speaker 8: to me, they Brooks is an interesting case. Brooks is
Speaker 8: an interesting case, and I I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 8: Brooks beats out Tolbert. I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2: I would not.
Speaker 8: I think he's going to be the guy that has
Speaker 8: the consistent practices every every day, and I think he's
Speaker 8: going to play through. He's got a little bit of
Speaker 8: an edge and toughness about him that I don't think
Speaker 8: things bother him. And I'm gonna I'm going to throw
Speaker 8: it out there and say that this this, that that
Speaker 8: Brooks will be over Tolbert.
Speaker 2: When the sink said, what.
Speaker 9: I also say is dropping down a little bit behind
Speaker 9: w R three. Keep an eye on on Corey Krumes,
Speaker 9: the undrafted rookie that was signed. He's made, he made
Speaker 9: some He showed me some things in Rookie Minnie Camp
Speaker 9: as much as you can show in Rocky Minnie camp
Speaker 9: O Ta showed me more. And now that we're having
Speaker 9: mandatory mini camp, I'm really keeping my eye on him
Speaker 9: to see what he's doing with that third and second
Speaker 9: team reps because he might push a guy like Jalen Cropper,
Speaker 9: you know, and then of course you have other guys
Speaker 9: like Racy McMath and then you have Tyrant Billy Johnson
Speaker 9: who is resigned.
Speaker 2: And he's a good looking kid.
Speaker 8: Yeah, he walked by me and I'm like going, whoa. Yeah,
Speaker 8: I'm like, look at this guy. Yeah, him and Overshown.
Speaker 8: I mean I stood next to over shown yesterday and
Speaker 8: I'm like going, man, my gosh, he's put on a
Speaker 8: lot of weight in a good way.
Speaker 10: It's a big guy.
Speaker 4: I mean a big guy that's muscle. So that wide
Speaker 4: receiver position.
Speaker 9: Man, we talked about the running backs room being stacked
Speaker 9: more so for wide receivers and that's going to be
Speaker 9: a very very fun battle.
Speaker 6: And we're also talking if we're talking about past catchers
Speaker 6: in general, John Stevens tight End. I know Mike McCarthy
Speaker 6: is very excited about him coming back this year and
Speaker 6: now he was an athlete. Yeah, he had a heck
Speaker 6: of a preseason last year.
Speaker 8: Job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 4: He's going to call somebody a job.
Speaker 9: When you talk to Lounda Wells, and we did here recently. Obviously,
Speaker 9: Lunda has a lot of praise for his group in general,
Speaker 9: right especially with you know, guys like Jake Ferguson what
Speaker 9: he's been able to do. But the way that when
Speaker 9: you step aside from Jake Ferguson conversation, which is an obvious,
Speaker 9: glowing conversation.
Speaker 4: You start talking about some of these younger guys.
Speaker 9: To pay hinder shots John Stevens when you're coming back,
Speaker 9: and even like the rookie coming in Brevin Yea for so.
Speaker 9: But the way, there's a glimmer in Lunda's eye about
Speaker 9: John Stevens. John Stevens is injury. His torn acl was
Speaker 9: the only thing even Stephen Jones basically said it. It
Speaker 9: was the only thing that kept John Stevens off of
Speaker 9: this roster last year.
Speaker 2: Assistant practices throughout right.
Speaker 9: So this is a guy who can as a tight end,
Speaker 9: he can line up off the line, as a wide receiver,
Speaker 9: he can line up on the line, and now he's
Speaker 9: put on muscle due to his injury. So now he
Speaker 9: can maybe be an inline blocker when you need him
Speaker 9: to be, which adds more value to him simply just
Speaker 9: being more so red zone thread or giving you some
Speaker 9: wide receiver reps.
Speaker 4: John Stevens is going to cost somebody a job. We'll
Speaker 4: see who that is.
Speaker 2: Though, inline blocker next to the tackle.
Speaker 7: Position battles are going to be fun.
Speaker 2: Thank you Jerry for always putting that in my head.
Speaker 7: There you go, Well, that'll do it for today's episode.
Speaker 7: This is fun, guys.
Speaker 2: Thank you did a heck of a job.
Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you guys.
Speaker 4: Such a start.
Speaker 7: That'll do it for today.
Speaker 4: And she washes her hands.
Speaker 13: I hope so.
Speaker 4: You never know. Shounds out to COVID.
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