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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, what time is it?

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Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, it's Bastard's thirty. It's actually one seventeen

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Speaker 3: in the afternoon, better known as my eight am. I

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Speaker 3: am Robert Evans uh and I'm not good at getting

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Speaker 3: up early, but you probably are. I imagine you're listening

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Speaker 3: to this podcast on your way to work at the

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Speaker 3: medical factory or at the whatever else job you do.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember any other jobs.

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Speaker 4: But doctor the medical factory.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're doctors work, Sophie.

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Speaker 2: Come on, let's me know that.

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Speaker 1: I'll start telling my brother who works at the medical factory.

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Speaker 4: You see how that goes.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of doctors, our guest today has a PhD in

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Speaker 3: performing I don't that was supposed to, like rhyme something

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Speaker 3: better than it didn't. It didn't whatever you prop, Jason.

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Speaker 4: Patty baptized baptized in default. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: I got a pH d In.

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Speaker 3: Being me h me, that's so much better than the

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Speaker 3: one I did.

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Speaker 2: Bar Wow, yeah, that was much better than how I

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Speaker 2: did it. Prop.

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Speaker 3: You are the host of a show called hood Politics,

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Speaker 3: which confined the listener on this exact podcast network.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I had the privilege of being the first offspring.

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Speaker 4: That's right of the network.

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Speaker 3: You feel me independent and we acquite you. You're the

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Speaker 3: Instagram to our Facebook.

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Speaker 5: Basically, I am the reels to I am the stories

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Speaker 5: to your to your Vine.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. Ooh boy, we probably shouldn't compare

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Speaker 3: ourselves to Vine. That's not gonna go well, Prop, How

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Speaker 3: are you feeling today?

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Speaker 4: You good? Feeling some?

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Speaker 5: I mean that feeling the same low level existential dread

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Speaker 5: everybody else is feeling.

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Speaker 4: Before you got on, Robert, I did war.

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Speaker 1: I'm always like it so biggy.

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Speaker 4: It's so biggy.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: But I feel like I'm about to like I'm about

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Speaker 4: to you, about to ruin my day.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm about to ruin several of your days,

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Speaker 3: because this is gonna take us a couple of weeks

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Speaker 3: to go through. Prop, we are you know that I

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Speaker 3: try to vary the bastards and very the level of bastardy,

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Speaker 3: keep things interesting, you know, for the whitest variety of people.

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Speaker 2: But I got a.

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Speaker 3: List in my head, the heavy hitters, you know, the

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Speaker 3: big guys, a lot of big folks, pokes, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, you haven't done one.

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Speaker 2: Paran yet.

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Speaker 3: You know, you haven't done Marcos yet, you haven't heard

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Speaker 3: now yet. Yeah, and today we're going back to the Nazi. Well, uh,

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Speaker 3: for reasons that should be obvious to people who watch

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Speaker 3: the news. That's extra relevant right now. Yes, and it's

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Speaker 3: time for us to hit one of the big ones.

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Speaker 3: Today and this week and next week we're doing Heinrich Himmler.

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Speaker 5: Oh shit, yeah, baby, yeah, baby. Scottie Pippen of nazis

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Speaker 5: Scotty right, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's not you know, hit Yeah,

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Speaker 5: Hitler's the Jordan, He's the Scottie Pippen. Obviously, Herman Garring

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Speaker 5: is Shack, you know, rights Shack.

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Speaker 4: I was like Rick Fox.

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Speaker 3: Maybe Gearing is like great, he's not the worst of them,

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Speaker 3: So I guess that's that's nicer to Shack than colleague

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Speaker 3: Scottie pipp And the Hamler.

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Speaker 5: Got damn it, the Murphy Lee fucking Lloyd Banks. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: Who's who's the other second? Got Quavo? Like you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm saying the fucking offset.

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Speaker 3: Of we're beyond my basketball knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Now we're not even in basketball anymore.

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Speaker 4: We went to music there.

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Speaker 3: Himler Himmler's if we want to put it in the

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Speaker 3: political terms, Himmler's the the Dick Cheney of right.

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Speaker 4: Do you know who Quevo is?

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Speaker 3: Jose, Yeah, Cuervo. Yeah, we've been for years. I wish Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna need some for these. No, I have no

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Speaker 3: idea who Quevo is.

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Speaker 4: We're talking to.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're talking Rayquon and ghost Face to method man

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Speaker 5: right now.

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Speaker 3: Okay, ghost method. Yeah, well, the method Man of Nazism

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Speaker 3: is probably not Heinar Kimler. I'm not sure who. No, No, maybe, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's that's a good question.

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Speaker 5: I mean meth is, like, you know, that's that's the

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Speaker 5: leader or is it not? Let's go it myth anyway,

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Speaker 5: this is old, this is old hay and stuff like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess yeah, Hitler's the method man of Nazis,

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Speaker 3: although you know Riza. I think it was Rizza who

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Speaker 3: did the uh the soundtrack to Ghost Dog, which I

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Speaker 3: don't think Hitler could have done.

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Speaker 2: Hitler is like.

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Speaker 5: Love it is actually a genius, like and Jizza the

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Speaker 5: genius is actually a doctor, like he's an actual PhD.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, well, Heinrich Kimler was none of these things.

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Speaker 5: What he was as a man who believed himself the

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Speaker 5: reincarnation of an old Germanic prince who died around the

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Speaker 5: year one thousand. He's the biggest nerd of the Nazis.

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Speaker 5: This is and in fact, one of the books I

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Speaker 5: have on this Hitler's Master of the Dark Arts, which

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Speaker 5: is about Heinrak Kimler and the occult, and we'll be

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Speaker 5: talking a lot about that through these episodes, like basically

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Speaker 5: describes Himmler and his kind of fellow travelers, the one

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Speaker 5: who are really into this German occult stuff that's going

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Speaker 5: to be part of these stories as like these are

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Speaker 5: like they would have been into D and D you know,

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Speaker 5: in a different nerd would be the toxic nerds, right,

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Speaker 5: like the guys who are like like threatened to murder

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Speaker 5: people over fan fiction about Lord of the Rings or

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Speaker 5: something like.

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Speaker 2: That's the kind of dude he is.

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Speaker 5: The guys gonna argued that the little more aerial should

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Speaker 5: be white because she's on the bottom of the ocean.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, okay would have been he would have

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Speaker 3: been writing so many fucking letters to Disney and Marvel

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Speaker 3: about like and stuff that yeah, yeah, that Himmler is

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Speaker 3: is the thatdest guy of the Nazi high command.

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Speaker 4: That is guy okay and then you put him in charge.

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Speaker 1: Here we go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So if we were in a country where kids

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Speaker 3: hadn't all been left behind since you know, I was

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Speaker 3: in high school, I would be like, this is a

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Speaker 3: guy who doesn't need introduction, but obviously he does need introduction.

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Speaker 3: This being the United States. Heinrich Himmler is the guy

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Speaker 3: who he didn't create the SS like it exists and

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Speaker 3: has a couple of leaders before him, but he's almost

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Speaker 3: from the jump the leader of the s S there's

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Speaker 3: it has very little history before him, and he makes

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Speaker 3: it into what it is. And the SS, the staffel

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Speaker 3: is you know, initially starts as Hitler's bodyguard and you know,

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Speaker 3: several unions of Hitler's bodyguard. It's kind of the elite

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Speaker 3: within the Nazi Party, and it turns to a state

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Speaker 3: within a state. The SS is handling a significant amount

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Speaker 3: of They're kind of like the FBI CIA, Like there's

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Speaker 3: the vision of the SS, the SD that is that

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Speaker 3: for the Nazi state, and they are also running all

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Speaker 3: of the concentration camps right like the Death'shead units that

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Speaker 3: have the famed the skull and Crossbones thing that the

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Speaker 3: SS is fame for. Those are the guys who are

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Speaker 3: running the camps. Those are the concentration camp guards. They're

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Speaker 3: manning the death camps. They also there are SS combat units,

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Speaker 3: the Vafen SS, which means the weapons SS. There's like

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Speaker 3: well over a million people in the SS at the height.

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Speaker 3: It is the elite of the party and these are

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Speaker 3: the guys who are doing the bulk of the war crimes,

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Speaker 3: not that the Wehrmacht doesn't, but like the SS is

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Speaker 3: the war crimes organization, and Himmler created them kind of

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Speaker 3: he wanted them to be a knightly order, right like

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Speaker 3: he was very much inspired by the medieval these some

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Speaker 3: of these medieval orders like the Knights Templar, and his

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Speaker 3: goal was to create a new aristocracy using the SS,

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Speaker 3: which is why, and to do a big part. They're the

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Speaker 3: guys doing the very worst of the Holocaust. And we

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Speaker 3: have spent a lot of time talking about other SS

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Speaker 3: men who are the implementation guys for the Holocaust. Right

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Speaker 3: We've talked about Reinhardt Heydrich, We've talked about Eichman, We've

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Speaker 3: talked about the einstz Grupa, and you know, several of

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Speaker 3: the people in that who are the units actually like

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Speaker 3: doing the direct shooting tens of thousands of Jews to

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Speaker 3: death in the East, and so in these episodes, one

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Speaker 3: thing that people might find a little weird, we're not

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Speaker 3: going to not talk about that, but we're not going

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Speaker 3: to go into most of it. We're not going to

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Speaker 3: spend very much detailed talking about the death camp stage

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Speaker 3: of the system that the SS is a part of,

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Speaker 3: because we have covered implementation, guys, and these are people

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Speaker 3: Himmler hires, Hydrich Himler is talking to giving orders to Aikman, right,

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Speaker 3: So we're mostly going to cover Himmler up until the

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Speaker 3: point that like the war gets going and the SS

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Speaker 3: is running and the camps are running. To talk about

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Speaker 3: how he got to where he did and how he

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Speaker 3: built the system that winds up doing the Holocaust will

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Speaker 3: spend less time on the hall. That's just because we

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Speaker 3: have covered the implementation guys, right.

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Speaker 5: And I also think I also think this is like, like,

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Speaker 5: this is the service that is needed at this moment

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Speaker 5: because we all understand there's been movies about find Out.

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Speaker 5: There ain't been movies about fuck around, you know, and

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Speaker 5: fuck around is.

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Speaker 4: Clearly where we're at.

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Speaker 5: And anybody who understands that find out comes after fuck

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Speaker 5: around is going.

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Speaker 6: Guys, hey, this is fuck around. This We're fucking around

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Speaker 6: like the flag don't get redder, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 6: So I feel like this, like and like you said,

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Speaker 6: the child left behind thing is just like the ability

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Speaker 6: to understand that four comes from two plus two is

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Speaker 6: probably one of the most frustrating things that is happening,

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Speaker 6: I think in our political dialogue right now. Like you

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Speaker 6: you like you want like you want a one to one.

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Speaker 5: You want this to be as neat as possible, you know,

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Speaker 5: and then people hide in that like for example, like

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Speaker 5: when people talk about like, well, Ice is like the Gustapo,

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Speaker 5: and it's like, well, okay, in vibe, like it's got

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Speaker 5: Gustopo vibe. It's more like the secret Police, but there's

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Speaker 5: really no one to one.

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Speaker 2: More like the SS.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah it's secret police, but like, yeah, the the

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Speaker 3: what they're trying to do with Ice is a lot

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Speaker 3: more like the SS. I mean, but again, none of

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Speaker 3: this crafts directly. There are some things compared to the

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Speaker 3: essay the brown Shirts, and like I don't want to

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Speaker 3: we'll talk some about that as we go on, but

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Speaker 3: but this is important because number one, we're gonna be

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Speaker 3: talking a lot more than we usually do about Heinrich's

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Speaker 3: early life in childhood, because there's so much on him.

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Speaker 3: There's a tremendous amount of detail. One of the things

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Speaker 3: we'll talk about one of the things it's unique about Himler,

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Speaker 3: of all of the Nazis, we have almost his entire

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Speaker 3: life and diaries from the time he was a little kid,

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Speaker 3: like he kept notes on most of his life, like

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Speaker 3: we have heard most of his daily life up to

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Speaker 3: a certain point, which is very weird and very rare

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Speaker 3: with some historical figure like this. And so I want

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Speaker 3: to try and I mean, the show is behind the bastard,

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, And I don't a lot of a lot

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Speaker 3: of these guys. There's just not enough information on their

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Speaker 3: childhood to really get that far behind. But with Himler,

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Speaker 3: we will, and we're going to spend a lot of

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Speaker 3: time talking about how he came to believe some of

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Speaker 3: these weird mystical beliefs that he believed in, how they

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Speaker 3: influenced because the SS is largely formed based on his

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Speaker 3: occult beliefs, Like a lot of how he organizes it

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Speaker 3: and what he wants it to be is based on

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Speaker 3: these esoteric things he believes about race, and reincarnation and

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Speaker 3: so we'll be talking about all of that in these episodes,

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Speaker 3: but I should just dive in, you know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, see I think too, Like it's something I've kind

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Speaker 5: of been trying to think about, like how to put

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Speaker 5: in a word for some upcoming episodes. For her, politics

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Speaker 5: is like the actual like power and danger of a

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Speaker 5: really smart like nerd that ain't afraid of you. Like

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Speaker 5: there's like that combo is dangerous, whether it's they create

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Speaker 5: a death cult like you're finna talk about, or you

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Speaker 5: turn into like a Nipsey hustle, like Nipsey is Nipsy,

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Speaker 5: Like some of the stories from his childhood was like

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Speaker 5: when he wanted to first start recording, he just made

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Speaker 5: a computer out of like scraps he found at a junkyard,

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Speaker 5: Like he built the first computer that he was when

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Speaker 5: he was a little boy. You know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 5: you gotta you gotta, you gotta roll in sixty crip

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Speaker 5: talking about like assets and liabilities and investing his you

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Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, So like somebody who's a nerd,

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Speaker 5: but it's.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm not afraid of jail. You know, say can

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Speaker 4: be either the leader we all needed or hydri Kimmler.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Himmler yes.

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Speaker 3: And as we'll talk about Himmler's he doesn't have quite

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Speaker 3: the courage to be like he doesn't want to get

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Speaker 3: arrested like he's but he also he idolizes the guys

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Speaker 3: who do right.

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Speaker 2: He really wants to be them. So, okay, we're.

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Speaker 3: Getting ahead of ourselves. Let's just dive into this man's life.

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Speaker 3: Heinrich Luitpold Himmler was born on October seventh, nineteen hundred,

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Speaker 3: in Munich, Germany. His family are generally described as middle class,

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Speaker 3: and most kind of short summaries of his upbringing this

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Speaker 3: under sells their level of comfort by a bit. We

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Speaker 3: might be more accurate to say that his parents came

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Speaker 3: from something had started out more working class, but had

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Speaker 3: worked their way up to like the upper middle class

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Speaker 3: by the time he's born. They are more comfortable than

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Speaker 3: most middle class people.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: They're taking vacations through most of World War One, right,

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Speaker 3: And that you have to be doing well if you're

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Speaker 3: able to still afford that in Germany in like nineteen sixteen, right.

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Speaker 3: His father was Gebhart Himmler, and he was the son

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Speaker 3: of a civil servant in the Bavarian government. This is

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Speaker 3: the early nine eighteen hundreds when Gebert is born, and

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Speaker 3: that's before the unification of Germany. Johann Himmler Heinrich's grandfather,

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Speaker 3: his Gabart's dad was the son of peasants from Ansbach

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Speaker 3: who trained him as a weaver. So Heinrich's dad grows

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Speaker 3: up being taught to be like a peasant who's like

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Speaker 3: weaving stuff, but he manages to This is as modernity

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Speaker 3: is really kicking in around Germany, and he manages to

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Speaker 3: elevate himself up out of the peasantry by getting a job.

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Speaker 3: He joins the military first, and he's in the military.

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Speaker 3: He travels around a couple of places in the military,

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Speaker 3: I think there's a period of time which's almost kind

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Speaker 3: of working as like a soldier for hire, and eventually

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Speaker 3: back in Germany, he gets a job as a police

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Speaker 3: officer and he works his way up to sergeant. They

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Speaker 3: use a different word for the term sergeant in Germany,

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Speaker 3: but that's what he is. He's like an upper middle

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Speaker 3: level kind of local police officer. So by the time

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Speaker 3: Gebart Heinrich's dad is born in eighteen sixty five, Germany

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Speaker 3: is five years away from becoming a country, and Johan

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Speaker 3: is retired, you know, when his kid is born, but

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Speaker 3: he's still working for the local government.

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Speaker 2: He's one of these guys.

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Speaker 3: He retires with a pension from his police job, and

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Speaker 3: then he gets a job basically like the city council

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Speaker 3: almost that kind of thing. So he's like a fairly

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Speaker 3: important man in town, right and fairly so the family

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Speaker 3: is connected. Yeah, this is this is Heinrich's grandfather. Okay, right,

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Speaker 3: so this is Johan. So Johann dies when Geberd is seven,

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Speaker 3: which is normal for German kids of this area era

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Speaker 3: and this socioeconomic group. If your dad is manages to

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Speaker 3: make it up to be like a fairly you know,

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Speaker 3: middle or high level local government functionary, he probably has

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Speaker 3: kids later than.

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Speaker 2: A lot of other guys.

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Speaker 3: He's probably pretty old and a lot of this is

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Speaker 3: kind of what happens to Hitler too, right, Like his

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Speaker 3: dad is much older than his wife. His dad is

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Speaker 3: a mid level functionary and dies when he's very young.

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Speaker 3: So as soon as Johann dies his wife, Heinrich's grandmother

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Speaker 3: raises Gebhard switches him from Protestant to Catholic. We don't

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Speaker 3: really know why this is very weird. It doesn't happen

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Speaker 3: a lot. The opposite is more common in Germany because

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Speaker 3: Germany is a more Protestant kind. Lutherans come from.

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Speaker 4: Germany, and yeah, Martin Luther is German.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the opposite switch is kind of weird and

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Speaker 3: we don't really fully know why. But biog him Heinrich,

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Speaker 3: Himler's biographer Peter Longrich seems to suggest that her motivation

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Speaker 3: may have partly been the idea that being Catholic would

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Speaker 3: be better for her son's future career because where they

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Speaker 3: are in Munich, more of the local government was Catholic,

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Speaker 3: and so maybe it would help, you know, if he

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Speaker 3: was Catholic. The reality of that's kind of clear. But

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Speaker 3: Gippart grows up to be a school teacher, and it's

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Speaker 3: a mark of how different Germany is in this place

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Speaker 3: and time to where we are now that that's a

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Speaker 3: big step up the ladder of social mobility. Like a

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Speaker 3: teacher is a good job, right, especially compared to like,

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Speaker 3: you know, what his family, their families have been doing previously.

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Speaker 3: So he gets a job at a grammar school as

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Speaker 3: a teacher initially, but he's so good at the work.

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Speaker 3: He's a very good teacher. Most people seem to agree.

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Speaker 3: There's some argument about this, but he's successful, at least

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Speaker 3: enough so that after four years as a teacher, he

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Speaker 3: gets kind of scouted for like the majors of being

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Speaker 3: a teacher, which is being a private tutor.

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Speaker 2: For a member of the royal family.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I was going to say, you get a little

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Speaker 5: comfy job, right, You're not just at the public school

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Speaker 5: teaching a teaching a riff raft.

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Speaker 2: Yah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he still teaches the riff raft, but he is

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Speaker 3: also now private tutor for a prince of the Bavarian

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Speaker 3: royal family, which is like a big deal, right, because,

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Speaker 3: among other things, you've got one on one connection with

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Speaker 3: someone who is going to be very powerful and influential.

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Speaker 2: So this is a job.

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Speaker 3: Not only does it pay pretty well, but it connects

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Speaker 3: you to a royal family. Now this period of time,

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Speaker 3: we're in Imperial Germany. They're ruled by a Kaiser, and

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Speaker 3: people miss this a lot, just because we don't talk

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Speaker 3: a lot about how Imperial Germany worked even under the

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Speaker 3: Kaiser prior to World War One. Germany is not us

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Speaker 3: just a state in the way that we conceive of

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Speaker 3: a state. It's basically like I think it's like four

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Speaker 3: kingdoms that are lashed together and they're all nominally under

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Speaker 3: the rule of the Kaiser, who is the Prussian king,

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Speaker 3: but each kingdom has a technically, like the militaries are

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Speaker 3: all independent, right, yeah, when war comes around, they all

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Speaker 3: have to like they're all unified, like it's written and

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Speaker 3: basically to the constitution or whatever that, yeah they call it.

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Speaker 3: But like when there's war, everybody's under one central command.

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Speaker 3: But outside of war, like the Bavarian and the Prussian military,

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Speaker 3: these are separate entities. They have separate leaders, they have

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Speaker 3: separate uniforms.

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Speaker 2: When World War One.

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Speaker 3: Starts, I think there's something like two hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 3: different official German military uniforms.

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Speaker 2: Like it's nuts, like.

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Speaker 5: I do like sometimes mourn and even finding it within myself,

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Speaker 5: like just us living in the era where we're in,

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Speaker 5: where we just honestly cannot imagine, like our brains can't

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Speaker 5: fathom other ways to organize governments, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: Like that, like, well they're not all will governments not

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Speaker 5: not even the right word, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: Like it's you feel me, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: So it's like it's hard to imagine them saying, well, yeah,

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Speaker 5: this is all Prussia. It's like, well I thought it

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Speaker 5: was Bavaria.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: No, it is like you're a part of the same state.

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Speaker 2: But also these are very different things and it's not

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Speaker 2: like a.

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Speaker 4: State like as in California.

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Speaker 5: It's like as in a nation, but it's not like

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Speaker 5: a nation because there's no sustinate as nations yet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're starting to become this is like, this is

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Speaker 3: while the modern idea of the nation state is being

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Speaker 3: like worked out, right, like that's where this is all happening,

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Speaker 3: and yeah it is.

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Speaker 2: So it is a big deal.

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Speaker 3: You know when I say his connection to the royal families,

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Speaker 3: to the Bavarian royal family, so he's not connected to

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Speaker 3: like the Kaiser's people, but he is his official charge.

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Speaker 3: The kid he's teaching as it is starting as when

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Speaker 3: this kid's like a teenager, is Prince Heinrich of Wittelsbach, right,

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Speaker 3: and he is the son of the Prince Regent of Bavaria.

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Speaker 3: The Prince Regent is the prince who's going to become

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Speaker 3: the king, and Prince Hydrich is not going to become

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Speaker 3: I mean he could theoretically, but a lot of people

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Speaker 3: would have to die. Right, he's not close to the throne,

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Speaker 3: but he's still a prince, right, so it's still a

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Speaker 3: big deal. And you know, Geberd is the son of

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Speaker 3: a cop who was himself the son of a peasants.

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Speaker 3: And so the fact that in two generations they've gone

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Speaker 3: from we're peasants and we're weavers or whatever to I

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Speaker 3: am teaching a prince is a huge upgrade for the family.

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Speaker 3: Circumstance anss they have moved a lot. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of upward mobility for the Himmler family. And the fact

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Speaker 3: that one of the things weighs this benefits him is

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Speaker 3: that like shortly after becoming a private tutor to the prince,

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Speaker 3: he gets a permanent job. Basically, he gets you know,

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Speaker 3: the equivalent of like tenure teaching at a prestigious private

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Speaker 3: grammar school. Right, so he goes from like teaching at

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Speaker 3: a normal school to teaching at a really nice school

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Speaker 3: because he's like I think basically the royal family is like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you should take this guy, you should hire this guy,

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Speaker 3: because we don't want the guy tutoring the prince to

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Speaker 3: be working at like a normal school, right, Like he

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Speaker 3: deserves a better position. So they start making good money.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just about that they're making, you know,

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Speaker 3: upper middle class money now, but they have connections. Now

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Speaker 3: he can I think it's the kind of thing where

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Speaker 3: you don't want to ask too much, but if you

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Speaker 3: ask for a favor, you can probably get it. In

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Speaker 3: the favor of a word in someone's ear from a

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Speaker 3: member of the royal family of Varia can move things

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Speaker 3: for you. So now that he's established, he's got these

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Speaker 3: this prestigious job, he's got these connections. It took him

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Speaker 3: a while to get to this point. But now it's

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Speaker 3: time for him to get married. And as I said,

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Speaker 3: he's gonna get married later than is normal for people here.

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Speaker 3: Uh he falls for or at least decides to marry.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how I love.

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Speaker 3: They were a woman named Anna Maria Hider, and this

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Speaker 3: is Heinrich Himler's mother. Anna's father was a successful local businessman.

436
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: He had died years earlier. But she brings a sizable

437
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 3: dowry to the marriage, right enough that they they might

438
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 3: have been able to live off the dowry, right Like, Like,

439
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 3: that's how come I don't know if I'd say that

440
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: they're rich, but they are upper middle class.

441
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 2: That's all score man.

442
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 5: Yes, I gotta tell you if there's any if there's

443
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 5: any incredibly toxic things in.

444
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 4: The past, yeah, that I wish existed.

445
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 5: It's like, oh yeah, yeah, when I already like a woman,

446
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 5: she's already choosing to marry me, and I'm like, wait,

447
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 5: but Alley.

448
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was mostly downsides, but yes, it

449
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 3: would have been just getting money when you get married. Yeah.

450
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: Obviously there's a lot that's toxic about this for a

451
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 3: lot of people, but for the himmlers, you know, and

452
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 3: part of what this shows you is and this is

453
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: something that Heinrich's it kind of runs in the blood

454
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 3: or whatever. The himmlers are really good social climbers. That's

455
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 3: primarily how Heinrich gets the way. He has good instincts

456
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: for this is someone I need to meet and be

457
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,479
Speaker 3: friends with, and they're going to like help me get

458
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 3: a leg up. And then this next person is who

459
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 3: I need to meet and be friends with, and that'll

460
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: help me get it. Like this is something his dad

461
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: is clearly really good at the level to which his

462
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: dad climbs and his grandfather had climbed. Show that there's

463
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 3: just a degree to which Himmlers are really good at

464
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: social climbing. You know, they've just got whatever that thing is.

465
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: So Heinrich Himmler is born, as I said in nineteen hundred,

466
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: he is the second child and the second son of

467
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: the marriage. They'll ultimately have three sons. It's a mark

468
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 3: of how well the Himmlers are doing that. When Heinrich

469
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 3: is born, Gebbert asks his student Prince Heinrich, if he'll

470
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 3: be who's like sixteen at this point, if he'll be

471
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 3: Heinrich's godfather.

472
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm actually kind of surprised. He's a middle child.

473
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is a middle child. That's actually to me.

474
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: It has an influence on that guy he becomes, and

475
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: Prince Heinrich agrees again, which says that like they have

476
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 3: a really good relationship.

477
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: That's kind of a big.

478
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 3: Ask from like a prince, like as yea, hey, what

479
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 3: you mean my kid's godfather?

480
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 5: But he says yes, yeah, you gotta really like this

481
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 5: fool like I like motime. Prince is like, wait, I'm sorry,

482
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 5: what's your name again?

483
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: Again?

484
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: You're the help? Are you serious?

485
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 4: But which one are you?

486
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 5: Yeah?

487
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: They must have had a good thing.

488
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 4: How many how many people have asked you to be

489
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 4: the godfather.

490
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: Prop. I feel like you're a lot of people's godfather.

491
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 4: I've been asked many times.

492
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm godfather to likes kids. I don't even

493
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: know the kids. Yeah, I just god I'm a godfather

494
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: for a hire. Baby.

495
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 5: You just send them money on their birthday, man, and

496
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 5: they come over. It's like, here's here's twenty bucks.

497
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: Kid.

498
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 5: No, there's only like there's there's two kids that I'm

499
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 5: like actually acting, one of which lives on our street.

500
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 5: So I'm like, okay, well I'm here godfather. She lives

501
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 5: next door.

502
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: You're you're you're really getting into the godfathering.

503
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a good choice.

504
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you you're a good choice. Obviously it

505
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: comes natural to me being a Robert Evans. There's nothing

506
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 3: more natural than being a godfather.

507
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 4: You are the godfather.

508
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's right, baby.

509
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 3: Uh. Speaking of the producer, Robert Evans, you know what

510
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: he liked? Cocaine. Maybe that's who sponsored this show.

511
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ, we're back.

512
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 2: I hope it was cocaine.

513
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 4: Did that blow your mind? Those exactly? All right? All

514
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 4: right with the dad joke, Hey man, I'm a goddad.

515
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, we get to make that mean should

516
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 3: get to make twice as many fucking dad jokes.

517
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 4: God level you feel, yeah, god.

518
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: Level dad jokes. Yeah, that's awful. So as he comes

519
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: into the.

520
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: World, the Heinrich Himmler, who would build the SS and

521
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 3: one of the deadliest organizations in human history, is from

522
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 3: the beginning a nepo baby. His parents put a lot

523
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: of wor again, they wait until their thirties to get married,

524
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: in part because they want to you know, Gebert especially

525
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 3: doesn't want to have kids until he can make sure

526
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 3: they'll be nepo babies because he is a climber. And

527
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: the whole plan that Gebert and Anna Maria have is

528
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 3: that the family money that his mom brought in, that's

529
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: like their their cushion, is going to pay for a

530
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: you know, childhood for their kids of like prestigious schools,

531
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: and particularly for Heinrich. For whatever reason, it seems like

532
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: they are setting Heinrich up more than anyone else for

533
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: success because he's the one who has the princess, the godfather,

534
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: and you know, they'll use the money to pay for

535
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: him to get a really good education. And then the

536
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 3: connections they've with the royal family they'll use to get

537
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: him a lucrative job as an adult, and that will

538
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: help the Himmler family ascend further towards the upper class.

539
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: Right that, like we made it to the upper middle class,

540
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 3: Heinrich is going to take us up to the fucking

541
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: aristocracy almost, you know, like that's the plan.

542
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: Now.

543
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: Depending on who you ask, you'll get different opinions on

544
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: Gebert Himmler as a father. A nineteen seventy one article

545
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: I found for the American Historical Review by Pete Lowenberg

546
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: describes him as quote a pedantic and conscientious man. Ernst Hampstengel,

547
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 3: who is an early friend of Hitler and an upper

548
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 3: class German. An aristocrat who attended classes taught by Gebert

549
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: at the private school, described him later as quote a

550
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: terrible snob, favoring the young, titled members of his class

551
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: and bearing down contemptuously on the commoners. And I could

552
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: see that it makes a lot of sense hearing other

553
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 3: things about the guy. Although it's also worth noting that

554
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 3: Hompstangle gives this account of Gebbert after he's fled Germany

555
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: and sat down with the OSS to gossip about Heinrich Himmler.

556
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 3: The first profile that the oss which comes the CIA

557
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: gives about Himmler. Ernst is a major source, as he

558
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 3: is for a lot of these guys because he knew

559
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: them all and then he had to flee. And that's

560
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: not perfectly trustworthy, this guy who was Hitler's friend and

561
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 3: a big Nazi until you know, things went too far. Yeah,

562
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 3: it's one of those things I don't there's a lot

563
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: of negative stories about like, yeah, Gilbert was an asshole,

564
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: he was like a bad teacher, he was a that

565
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: aren't entirely accurate because a lot of the first generation

566
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,719
Speaker 3: of historians work backwards from like, well Himler was obviously terrible,

567
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: so everything about his upbringing must have sucked, right.

568
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, and maybe that's not totally accurate.

569
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 3: And his most recent biot or one of his most

570
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: recent biographers, who's a his book, is a big source

571
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: for these episodes. Peter Longrich takes a more reserved tone

572
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: towards towards Gebert, and he depicts him as actually a

573
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: pretty good father for the time period quote, and this

574
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: is from his biography of Himmler. As a father, he

575
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: exercised his authority not through being unapproachable or through overbearing strictness,

576
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: but rather through patient efforts. With his sons, they were

577
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: subject to a system of rules and prohibitions, while their

578
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: father monitored their obedience precisely and at times pedantically. His

579
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: strictness was designed to have a lasting effect and seems

580
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: to have been altogether compatible with kindness, love, and affection.

581
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: So, dude, I think there's something here.

582
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 5: I think there's which probably will play out layer which

583
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 5: you'll probably correct me about. But like, I think there's

584
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 5: something to the fact that, like, Okay, this guy is

585
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 5: not royal.

586
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: Heindrich's dad.

587
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, but he was around royalty, so I feel like

588
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 5: he probably was able to see just what he He's

589
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 5: a teacher, so he's like I wasn't poor, I didn't

590
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 5: get out get it out the mud, but like you're

591
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 5: you're around probably very privileged people, and you like, I

592
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 5: definitely don't want my son to turn in it is,

593
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 5: but also I want to award him the types of

594
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 5: like value, Like he's a teacher, so it's like the

595
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 5: types of like sort of like hard work value, you know, trustworthiness,

596
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 5: Like you know what I'm saying. You marry into this

597
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 5: like pretty rather wealthy family, you got no reason to

598
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: be a hard ass, you know what I'm saying, Like,

599
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 5: because hey, dude, like it's like your needs are met,

600
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 5: Like we got a good job, you know what I'm saying, Like,

601
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 5: and I really think that like that. I wonder if

602
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 5: that plays into him being like, yeah, like our needs

603
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 5: are met. I don't have to like I'm not you know,

604
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 5: in a gulag somewhere like which I know I could be.

605
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 5: You feel me, So I'm like, I would much rather

606
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 5: be like, man, let me spend some time with my kids,

607
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying, Like I have been awarded

608
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: this gift, you know what I mean of being able

609
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 5: to like spend time with my kids because I see

610
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 5: what happens when you don't, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

611
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 5: so I can imagine like that that actually playing a

612
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 5: role as to be like, yeah, he probably was a

613
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: good dad, you know.

614
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: And I think he was. He's also you know, we

615
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 3: used to the phrase that a few years ago. Is

616
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: the book about like tiger moms, right, which is his term.

617
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: You get to like a lot of like like Asian

618
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: immigrant mothers who are like that super like into their

619
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: kids education and very hands on to try to ensure

620
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: their success. That's how you might look at Geppard, right, Yeah,

621
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: so he's very involved and he doesn't seem to be

622
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: emotionally unavailable like for the time, but he also is

623
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: he's obsessed with his kids education and with their success. Right,

624
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: that is his business, you know. Yeah, and so there

625
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: is to the degree that that's kind of like it

626
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 3: can be a toxic thing that's also present here, but

627
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: it's not toxic.

628
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: He's not that he's not hitting his kids.

629
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: We don't really have any reports, and I've read a

630
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: couple from the old to the new biographies of Himler

631
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: none really seemed to suggest that he was like abused

632
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: in that way.

633
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 2: But he is constant.

634
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: He is pressured from the beginning to succeed, right, to

635
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: do really well in school. Right, I could really see

636
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: that because that should be somebody, Yeah, that's your ticket.

637
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 3: It's like you're not born you're not a born of prince,

638
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: you know me, Like this is how you're gonna do this.

639
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: You're not born to prince, and I don't want you

640
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: breaking up rocks, so like let's do this. Yeah, And

641
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 3: it's one of those things where you know a lot

642
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: of these sources will kind of try to depict his

643
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 3: father as being like, oh, he was this really boring,

644
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: pedantic man who was like super shitty to anyone who

645
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: wasn't rich. And I don't think that that's not that

646
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: that isn't doesn't clash necessarily with the And he was

647
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: also very attentive and in a lot of ways a

648
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: good dad, like I think he was. The evidence does

649
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 3: suggest he was like very much a starfucker, like if

650
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: you were not of a good family, if you didn't

651
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: come from money. Again, he and Anna will like police

652
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: who their kids are allowed to hang out with, to

653
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: make sure that they are they're helping, basically like, oh,

654
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: this kid's got to be at our level or above,

655
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: otherwise you can't hang out with them.

656
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 4: So they are. There is that degree of toxicystney from

657
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 4: the slums man.

658
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, where it's like you are going to be

659
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: somebody and I Am going to make goddamn sure of it,

660
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: you know. But also it's not like the kind of

661
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: thing where his dad is like mentally abusing him or

662
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 3: like hitting him or like fucking with his brain. His

663
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: dad is just down to determined to make him a success.

664
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

665
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 5: It sounds like some like respectability right politics, where it's

666
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 5: just like you know, you know, for us, it was like, hey,

667
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 5: you know, keep your hair in eyes, don't be wearing

668
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: hoodies like you know, speak clearly, you know, don't don't

669
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 5: be using out it, don't be used and slang like

670
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 5: you know, just don't hang with them like exactly, you

671
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 5: won't like make these people respect you.

672
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: Not getting Yeah, So in February of nineteen oh three,

673
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 3: when he's like a little kid three, Heinrich falls seriously

674
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: ill for the first time. This has something to do

675
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: with his lungs. His older brother is also sick. A

676
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: bunch the family I just think isn't super It's not

677
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 3: clear what's wrong. It's always said as like a lung problem.

678
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: I think it might be asthma, Like he may have

679
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: just had asthma. It's not perfectly clear to me, but

680
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: that would make sense. The ailment is severe enough that

681
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: his mother takes him and his siblings to the Alps

682
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: for a few months. Is a cure, right, Like that's

683
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: what you do. You get him up, and that your

684
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 3: doctor literally prescribed go be in the mountains with these

685
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: like it's also at this time nineteen oh three, right,

686
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 3: so like what the fuck is asthma.

687
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're doing.

688
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 4: We just figured out germs like a month ago, right, Yeah, and.

689
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: Everyone doesn't believe it.

690
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 3: But we're still we're still we're still fighting to get

691
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 3: the doctors washing their hands.

692
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, reusing smocks.

693
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 5: Yeah.

694
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: So Heinrich recovers, unfortunately, but moving to them and moving

695
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: to the mountains doesn't, you know, cure him obviously, but

696
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 3: like they they think anyway, he winds up coming back.

697
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: But he's always a sickly kid, and he has regular

698
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: bouts of illness that will periodically. Whenever he gets really sick,

699
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: his parents focus on him again. And he's the middle kid, right,

700
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 3: so you know once he has a younger brother. There's

701
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: a kind of long Rich sort of suggests, and I

702
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: like Long, which is a biographer, But he doesn't really

703
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: provide evidence for this. I think it's just one of

704
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 3: those things where he's like, well, it makes sense. Maybe

705
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 3: is the middle kid. He savored the fact that when

706
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 3: he was sick he got all this attention, But he

707
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: doesn't really provide us much of the way of evidence

708
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 3: on this, So this may just be kind of him inferring.

709
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: When Heinrich starts school in nineteen oh six. So you know,

710
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 3: three years later, he's still ill enough that he misses

711
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty days out of his first year

712
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: of classes. Yeah, due to a variety everything. He gets measles,

713
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 3: he gets the moms, he gets pneumonia several times. And

714
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 3: his older brother had had a similar experience with school

715
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 3: but still gets really good grades, better than Heinrich in fact,

716
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 3: and Longrich suggests that the fact that his brother does

717
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 3: better than him at school is something that frustrates Heinrich.

718
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: I don't the evidence of this. There's not like direct evidence,

719
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 3: but there's some reasons to believe that he is very

720
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: competitive with Gebbard and kind of has some insecurity over

721
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: the fact that he never outdes his brother in school.

722
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 3: One of my second episode sources for these episodes is

723
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 3: a very old biographer of Himmler, just titled Himmler by

724
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,479
Speaker 3: Willie Freshower. And long Rich doesn't love for Shower's book

725
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 3: because it's one of its it's basically the first big

726
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: biography of Himler, and so it's outdated. I think it's

727
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: written in the fifties, and that is true. I wouldn't

728
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: use this as like the prime source because it is

729
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 3: so old and historiography has moved beyond here. But it's

730
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 3: from the first generation of books on Himmler, right, and

731
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 3: say like it's closer to when it happened, it's closely

732
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: when it happened, and more. I think one of the

733
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 3: reasons why I do find it worth reading is that

734
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: it sets up you see in fre Shower's book, where

735
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: a lot of both misconceptions and myths about Himmler's starts,

736
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: because this is the first like big history, and I

737
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 3: think it is valuable for that for understanding where some

738
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 3: of these ideas come from. And one thing that is

739
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: interesting is outdated as Freshower's book is it's one of

740
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: the first, it's one of the only books of that

741
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: first generation that kind of describes the Himler finally life

742
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: the same way long rich does. Because other people writing

743
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: about Himler in that period really tried to emphasize the

744
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: toxicity and the fact that Himmler grows up, you know,

745
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: with this overbearing father and he's this like kind of

746
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: psychopathic kid who has these you know, And for Shower's

747
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 3: account of it really does jibe with long Riches in

748
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 3: the fact that, like no, his upbringing was reasonably good

749
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 3: for the era for Shower emphasizes the fact that Gebhard

750
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: was a huge nerd for German history and like into archaeology,

751
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: and that this has an impact on Heinrich quote. As

752
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 3: a little boy, Heinrich Himler sat on his father's knee

753
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: almost every evening, ear glued to the lips, from which

754
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: tales of wonderful adventure flowed in a rhythmic, studied language.

755
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: Hero of the tales invariably was Grandfather Johann Konrad Himmler,

756
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 3: soldier of fortune, who had hitched his star to any

757
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 3: army that would have him. A rugged nineteenth century warrior

758
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 3: who had burst the narrow confines of his time and

759
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 3: branched out into the wide world world. Grandfather's most glorious

760
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 3: campaign had been fought in Greece. He marched in the

761
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: shadow of the Acropolis. He had seen Thebes in the

762
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 3: pass of Thermopylae, and brought back to his own humble

763
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: environment a breadth of adventure and greatness.

764
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 4: Hmmm.

765
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 5: See, to me, I feel like there's like, just for

766
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 5: when you're just trying to understand a person era a moment,

767
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 5: there's like you, like you said, like a lot of this,

768
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 5: a lot of them, maybe this particular book is outdated,

769
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 5: but I do you think just as it is, you

770
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, But I do think as a practice,

771
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 5: Like there's pros and cons of at like, but the

772
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 5: pro is to understand they're writing in a time and

773
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 5: era and it's like, this is actually telling me what

774
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 5: you thought was important in nineteen fifty to point out,

775
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying, like, this is how you

776
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 5: thought about this. You feel me and like and that

777
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 5: and that keys that key's in that he's into us,

778
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 5: like you know, the the you know, the somehow or

779
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 5: another the ward sharp and magnetic zeros.

780
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 4: Like video resurface.

781
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 5: But it was like, yo, this song is trash, like

782
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying, Like people actually going and

783
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 5: then we're thinking you know obviously us who was there.

784
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 4: It was like, well it was a vibe, you know

785
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 4: what I'm saying, Like it's set vibe. It was a vibe.

786
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 5: It's sat in a time of other just that was

787
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 5: just the vibe, you know what I'm saying. Like it's like, yeah,

788
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 5: like the thought never crossed my mind to think about

789
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 5: these lyrics, you know, or that they're.

790
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 4: From last feelis, which is like you're you're from Griffin Park.

791
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: Like surprising coming out here.

792
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like what by the observatory Like.

793
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but uh anyway, and yeah, that's the kind of

794
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: you don't see this story repeated in a lot of

795
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 3: the modern historiography, which I think this is kind of

796
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: important to talk about this because and this gets more

797
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: in the books about Heinrich and the Occult and none

798
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 3: of the I think the best of them is Himmler

799
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: or a Master of the Dark Arts. But it's not

800
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: a great work of history, certainly not compared to long

801
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 3: Rich's book, in part because all of the books that

802
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: focus on Himler on the occult need to It's the

803
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 3: same problem that like Blitz has with Hitler and Drugs,

804
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: where there's a lot of really good work and really

805
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: useful original research done that I think the bigger biographies

806
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 3: could stand to have more of. But because you're focusing

807
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: on the occult thing, you.

808
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: Make it a bigger deal than it really was.

809
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 3: Right, But I think this is important and it gets

810
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: left out of a lot of the more modern accounts,

811
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: and it seems to be based on as far as

812
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: I can tell, Fresh Hour, one of his major sources

813
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: he talks to Gebhart Himmler, the junior. Heinrich's older brother

814
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 3: is also named Gebbard, and that's who's telling him about

815
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 3: their childhood and about how they're raised. And Gabbart isn't

816
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 3: an unproblematic source, right because he's Heinrich's brother. But I

817
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: don't really see much reason to doubt the basics of this, right,

818
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: you know, there's some reason to doubt was Hitler's grandfather,

819
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 3: did his life really go that way? But the fact

820
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: that Himmler, Heinrich was raised with stories of his grandfather

821
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: being this great warrior, and you know that be like

822
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: their ancestry being important, and like German history being important,

823
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 3: and this kind of like medieval like these medieval stories

824
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 3: of like knights and kingdoms, you know, one of the

825
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 3: things that obsessed it as a kid. They traveled this

826
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: like medieval town that still got its old walls, and

827
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: Heinrich is like obsessed with these walls. They He has

828
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: a big imagination and it's always focused on almost these

829
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: kind of like the German equivalent of the Arthurian myths, right,

830
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 3: Like that's that's what as a kid, he is a

831
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: huge Again, he'd be playing D and D you know,

832
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: day he loves magic and he loves knights, and this

833
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 3: this very much historically inaccurate but common picture of what

834
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: medieval Germany was like, right, And I think the fact

835
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: that his dad is sitting them down and tell them

836
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: these fanciful stories of like his own father and of

837
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: old Germany, that's probably where this starts. And Gebart also senior.

838
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 3: He's an amateur archaeologist, right, He probably spent some time

839
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: even digging for old artifacts. He collects coins, and he

840
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: collects like some old weapons, whatever you can get his

841
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: hands on, which is a hip hobby at the time. Right,

842
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: nationalism is a fairly new concept in the early nineteen hundreds,

843
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 3: and it's sexy and a big part of German nationalism.

844
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: Because Germany is very new, the country had only come

845
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: into being a couple of decades earlier. There's a lot

846
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 3: of focus in like official propaganda, and it just becomes

847
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: popular for archaeologists to find evidence of like the Germanic

848
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: tribes are ancestors, and we're going to pretend that they

849
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 3: were a lot more united and that German identity was

850
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 3: more of a thing for them than it really was.

851
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: You know, when the Romans talk about the Germans they're

852
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: not talking about the Germans as we know them. Some

853
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: of the tribes that they with our ancestors to modern Germans,

854
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: but some of them were like Belgians or whatnot, and

855
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 3: they just all got kind of lumped together because the

856
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 3: Romans aren't you know, we don't know it's all are

857
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 3: I don't know where you came from. You're here, and

858
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: you're all kind of like have some similarity. So y'all

859
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: you're all the fucking.

860
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 4: Germans, right, Yeah, they just meant y'all up there, yea

861
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 4: that like, yeah.

862
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: Exactly, but they got hammered into being. Germany has just

863
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 3: been hammered into being Byodo von Bismarck and so. And

864
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: you know, another thing that happens around this time as

865
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: Heinrich Schleimann I think was his name, finds the ruins

866
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 3: of the city of Troy. Well, he destroys the ruins

867
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: of the city of Troy, digging to something older anyway,

868
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: but he finds where Troy probably was and that's a

869
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: huge deal in Europe and it kind of ignites this

870
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 3: whole like, well, there's got to be other let's find

871
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 3: these ancient ruins. Yeah, German civilization that proved that we're

872
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 3: a great and ancient people, you know. And Himler gets

873
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 3: carried away with this Gebhart his dad does. And you know,

874
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 3: Heinrich and his older and younger brother both catch this bug, right,

875
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 3: they're Germany nerds. They also get into stamp collecting. ARD's

876
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: a big stamp collector. Wait, yeah, family of Dweebs collected stamps.

877
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 5: Yeah. See, there is a role in culture that bullies

878
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 5: are supposed to play, you know.

879
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 3: And I'll last no, because it is one of those

880
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 3: if like Gebhard was raising Heinrich Himler today, like Heinrich

881
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 3: would be sitting on his lap as he sends like

882
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 3: death threats to Disney for putting women in Star Wars

883
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 3: Like that is the kind of dude, That's the kind

884
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: of family this is speaking of sending death threats to Disney.

885
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 3: Don't do that, please, please don't do that.

886
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: Don't do that.

887
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: But you know, send a death threat to yourself, keep yourself.

888
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: On your toes.

889
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 4: Also, don't do that.

890
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: Why not it's not illegal to threaten to kill it?

891
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 3: Well it might be actually anyway, here's ads.

892
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: We're back.

893
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 3: So, when Heinrich is a kid, his dad one of

894
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 3: the like again, his dad is very hands on. He's

895
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 3: making his when his kids are sick, he makes them

896
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 3: like keep up with their schoolwork and whatnot. On like

897
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,959
Speaker 3: the weekends, he's sitting down with them and they're going

898
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 3: over what they went over in class. He's super hands

899
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: on with this. And one of the things he makes

900
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 3: his kids do is part of his educational plan for

901
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 3: them is from a very early age when they're quite little,

902
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 3: still not a toddler, but you know, when they first

903
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 3: learn to write. He teaches them stenography right so that

904
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 3: they can write quickly, and they write letters to each other.

905
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: But he also makes his kids keep a detailed diary,

906
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: and he checks the diary like this is homework he's

907
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 3: giving his kids. He's checking to like I want to

908
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: make sure you're not doing something bad. He's checking to

909
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 3: make sure that you are writing well right, and.

910
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: It's hey, yeah, essays yeah.

911
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 4: Long.

912
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 3: Rich writes that geb Hard quote encouraged them his sons

913
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 3: to use school holidays to consolidate what they had been taught.

914
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: So they're spending their holidays going over their homework and whatnot,

915
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 3: their schoolwork, and he makes them keep these diaries and

916
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 3: as a result, we have, like most of Heinrich Himler's

917
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: a lot of his childhood documented from a day to day,

918
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: sometimes on an hourly basis, in granular detail.

919
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 4: Man, back to the tiger mom stuff. You're right, right,

920
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 4: it is, yeah, eh.

921
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 3: And you won't be surprised to hear that once this

922
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 3: fact comes to light post war. Once like people find out,

923
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: you know, first the extent of the Holocaust and Heinrich's involvement,

924
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 3: and then that he's got this childhood diary. All of

925
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 3: these psychoanalysts, armchair and official ones are like, oh shit,

926
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make my career analyzing finding the evidence of

927
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 3: psychopathy and the diary of young Heinrich Himmler.

928
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: Right, this has to be the key to his madness.

929
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: You know, it's got to be in this because obviously

930
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 3: you can always tell when someone's a kid if they're

931
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: going to grow up to be a monster. And yeah,

932
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: this is bad medical science and its baddest storiography, working

933
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: back words from someone what they did as an adult

934
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: and trying to be like, ah, the key must have

935
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: been in this shit he wrote when he was seven,

936
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,959
Speaker 3: and it's bad and it's always really like, there's every

937
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 3: analysis that tries to look into his childhood from this

938
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 3: standpoint that I've read is bad.

939
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 2: One of them. I don't know.

940
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 3: It's the most detailed. There's a lot of nonsense Freudian

941
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 3: shit in it. But there's a paper I read called

942
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 3: The Unsuccessful Adolescence of Heinrich Kimler, written in nineteen seventy

943
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: one by Peter Lowenberg. I mentioned it earlier. He's an

944
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 3: American psychoanalyst and a historian who My analysis of him

945
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 3: is that as a young man he discovered Freud and

946
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 3: never looked back. And there's a lot of There's a

947
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 3: lot that's good in this paper because he does go

948
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 3: over all of the diary, which is not a thing

949
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 3: I am able to do, is in detail, read everything,

950
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of interesting stuff you get. And

951
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 3: it's also married to like and this is evidence of

952
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 3: his anal fixation. This is evidence of a schizoid personality

953
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 3: that's like, man, none of this is real psych like

954
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 3: we know this is all now, Yeah, And you also

955
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 3: can't psychoanalyze a child from this diary.

956
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 4: That is no.

957
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: His diary is like most of it is not. Here

958
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 3: are my thoughts and feelings that I'm pouring out. It

959
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: is you know, Monday, woke up at X hour, this

960
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 3: went to school. It's very very just nuts and bowls. Yeah,

961
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 3: like you're stretching the term diary here.

962
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, this is my Daddy's making me write

963
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 5: this right exactly, and so I'm not going to put

964
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 5: nothing deep about my soul in this.

965
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 3: It's homework and there's so I don't include a lot

966
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 3: of his analysis of this, just because he's going way

967
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 3: too far. But there there are some really good things

968
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 3: that he does make a note of right that are

969
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: worth us quoting. And one of this is something that

970
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 3: he writes about Heinrich's opinion of his mother Anna quote.

971
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: Little is known about her. Unlike Keebard Himler, she scarcely

972
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 3: receives mention in her son's diary. And I don't think

973
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: this is I don't see much evidence that he hated

974
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: his mom. I think it's just he doesn't think about

975
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 3: his mom much as a person right like she is

976
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 3: not this is It says a lot about his attitude

977
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 3: towards women, which is consistent for his life. He's not

978
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: all that interested in his mother or her influence on him.

979
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that to me is like, if you like, if

980
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 4: you want to do if you want to do fake science.

981
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it like, oh yeah, you actually miss what's really there,

982
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, what's actually really is interesting because

983
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 5: it's not like this is not this is useful, right,

984
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 5: it's useful. But you so looking for Edipie and shit.

985
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: And clear evidence of his psychopathy. Yeah, that's not in

986
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: there yet.

987
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 4: But here's what it is showing you.

988
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 3: This is interesting, Yes, exactly. So I'm trying to pull

989
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: the stuff that is interesting out of this paper without

990
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: including a lot of the Freudian shit that I think

991
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,479
Speaker 3: is going way too far. But so there are again

992
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: a lot of interesting details in here. I'll quote another one.

993
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 3: Heinrich Himler always maintained a high awareness of rank and titles.

994
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 3: He meticulously referred to the correct title and social status

995
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 3: of anyone mentioned in his diary. And this is both

996
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: obviously he's being used to do this by his father,

997
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: but this is an example of what I said, his

998
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 3: dad passes down as I'm sure his granddad did to

999
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 3: his dad. Yeah, the kind of the kind of things

1000
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 3: you need to do to be a social climber, and

1001
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: one of them is always know who people are, Yeah, exactly,

1002
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 3: know who you're talking to. How to refer to them

1003
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: and who it's worth kind of getting in good with.

1004
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 3: And Heinrich is going to be good at this, and

1005
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 3: it's I think this is the start of his how

1006
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: he's a culture to do this?

1007
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: Right now?

1008
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,479
Speaker 5: That is you, yeah, is somebody who understand Yeah, who's

1009
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 5: in a room and who I need to impress?

1010
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 4: Who I don't need to impress. Like that tells us.

1011
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: Something, And you get a lot people talk a lot about, like, okay,

1012
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 3: like kids who come from poor families, which is the

1013
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 3: kids who could come from rich families. What are the

1014
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 3: different Like, you know, rich parents raise kids in a

1015
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: way that make them understand money better and how to

1016
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 3: keep it better because the parents know how to do that.

1017
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: And this is kind of the same sort of thing,

1018
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 3: right Like the fact that Heinrich is being a culture

1019
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 3: to do this is of how his dad is preparing

1020
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 3: him to be the kind of social climber that's able

1021
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 3: to get as far as he did in the Nazi Party. Now,

1022
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 3: another interesting fact from this diary is that we see

1023
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: in it very little evidence of anti Semitism.

1024
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: Right.

1025
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 3: It's not to say he is anti Semitic as a

1026
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: little kid. His family is anti Semitic, but in a

1027
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 3: normal way for German gentiles at the time. Right, there's

1028
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 3: not evidence as a little kid in the way that

1029
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: there is with like Hitler that he is really obsessed

1030
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 3: with this stuff, right, that we don't really see. And

1031
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 3: this comports what's in his diary, just because we always

1032
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: want secondary resources. One of the people who talked about

1033
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: Heinrich after, you know, when the war started was a

1034
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 3: German who had fled to the United States to escape

1035
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 3: the Nazi regime, named Hullgarden and Hallgarden. What like fig

1036
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 3: realizes as an adult when the Nazis ris to power

1037
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 3: that Heinrich Kimler had been in school with him, like

1038
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: they were classmates. Oh so they went through years of

1039
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 3: school together. And so he gives us some interesting details

1040
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 3: on Himmler from someone and obviously not a n by

1041
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: a source, but from someone who is observing him, you know,

1042
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 3: as a young kid. He describes his appearance as quote

1043
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 3: a child of hardly average height, who was unusually pale

1044
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: and physically very awkward, with haircut fairly short, and even

1045
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 3: then a pair of gold rimmed glasses on his slightly

1046
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 3: pointed nose, and who was seen with a quote half embarrassed,

1047
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 3: half malicious smile on his face. Now Longwitch continues to

1048
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 3: write in his biography of Himler quote. According to Halgarden,

1049
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 3: Himler had been a model pupil, liked by all the teachers.

1050
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 3: Amongst the boys, he had been regarded as a swat

1051
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 3: and been only moderately popular. Hallgarden had a particularly clear

1052
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 3: memory of the unhappy figure Himmler cut, much to the

1053
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 3: amusement of his fellows in gymnastics. Hatred of the Jews,

1054
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 3: Halgarden went on to say, was not something Himmler was

1055
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: at all associated with at the time. On the other hand,

1056
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 3: he said he remembered Heinrich's radically anti French outlook, and

1057
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 3: so I think that's just like he was just like

1058
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 3: a six He's a nerdy kid. He looks he's like

1059
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 3: a weird look. He's not like a handsome kid, and

1060
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 3: he's not physy awkward. He does bad in jim you know,

1061
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 3: kids make fun of him for that.

1062
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, he's the guy that, like, yeah, totally

1063
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 5: like your teacher, who I was one for a while

1064
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 5: where you're just like, wait, this kid's in my class,

1065
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 5: like you just like you just miss him, you know

1066
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 5: me because it's like he's not I mean, he turns

1067
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 5: in his homework, he does good, but not that good

1068
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 5: at the top of the class mine in the upper

1069
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 5: twenty percent probably, but not enough that like he super

1070
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 5: stands out.

1071
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: But like the teachers like hi because he doesn't cause problems,

1072
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 3: and the other kids make fun of him because he's

1073
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 3: kind of he's kind of physically he's do we look

1074
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: at a picture of Heinrich Himler. I'm not trying to

1075
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 3: be like body shaming the reich sphere of the SS,

1076
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 3: but like, he's a nerdy looking guy.

1077
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a little deep. Yeah he's not.

1078
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: He doesn't look like an Aryan superman. Right, And this

1079
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 3: is this is this is relevant because it's going to

1080
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 3: have a lot of influence on how he why the

1081
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 3: SS works the way does, and how he tries to

1082
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 3: present himself.

1083
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: But it does.

1084
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 3: I think Hallgarten's recollections, along with the diary, make a

1085
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: very solid case Heinrich is not particularly anti Semitic as

1086
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 3: a kid, and anti being anti French matters a lot

1087
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 3: more to him as a kid than being anti Semitic, Right,

1088
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 3: And the fact that you've got this guy who doesn't

1089
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 3: like him, who wasn't biased, being like, yeah, I didn't

1090
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 3: see much evidence that he was super racist against the

1091
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 3: Jews as a kid. That's probably the case, right, Yeah,

1092
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: he ain't liked the French though he hates the French.

1093
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 3: Oh my god, fuck you Frenchy.

1094
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 2: He's inventing slurs for the French. What a dork now.

1095
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: Thanks to his father's obsessive involvement in their education, the

1096
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 3: Himler boys do very well in school. Heinrich is not

1097
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 3: the standout of the family though. His grades are good,

1098
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 3: but they're never as good as his older brothers, and

1099
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 3: he never makes it to the very top of the class.

1100
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 3: He doesn't stand out. Heinrich's mother pushes the boys to

1101
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 3: be observant Catholics, and is so insistent on this that

1102
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 3: Geppart actually has to force his wife to ease up

1103
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: on them with the He's like, you're going way too

1104
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 3: hard on the Catholicism stuff. We don't need to be

1105
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 3: slowed down. And you know they go to church every Sunday.

1106
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 3: They're they're diligent about it, but like she wants them

1107
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 3: to be. She's she's way more into it than he is.

1108
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 3: One of my favorite weird details from The Fresh hour biography,

1109
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 3: which is that very older, much older biography, is that

1110
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 3: as a kid, Heinrich said his prayers in front of

1111
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 3: quote an ivory statue of Christ cut from one big

1112
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 3: elephant's tooth.

1113
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 2: Just a sign of the era. That's that's a word

1114
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 2: you've got cool, I guess all right.

1115
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1116
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 3: Fresh Hour claims that by age ten, Heinrich could quote

1117
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 3: reel off the dates of famous battles. The Saga of

1118
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 3: the Nibelungs were his bedtime stories. The wars of the

1119
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 3: Middle Ages fuel for his imagination. And this is what

1120
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 3: Heinrich's into, while the other the normal thing for boys

1121
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 3: to be obsessed with is stories of Native Americans fighting

1122
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 3: like the US cavalry.

1123
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 2: Right, that is like the boys we talk about this

1124
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:53,959
Speaker 2: Hitler's hugely.

1125
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 3: Into cowboy novels, right, This German con man named Karl

1126
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 3: May that is the big That's the Harry Potter of

1127
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 3: its day. It's the major thing that kids are into.

1128
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 3: It's their fucking dragon ball z or whatever. If your

1129
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 3: kid who grew up when I did, Heinrich is different,

1130
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 3: and that he is just he is a nerd for

1131
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 3: you know these this Wagner operas, The Ring of the

1132
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 3: Nibbe Lungins, which is kind of a precursor to the

1133
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 3: Lord of the Rings. The Lord of the Rings takes

1134
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 3: a lot from that saga and from like, you know,

1135
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 3: stories of the Crusades and these other battles and wars

1136
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 3: in the Middle Ages.

1137
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: This is what he's obsessed with, right.

1138
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 4: You don't like this?

1139
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 5: This also reminds me of like, as you're talking, like

1140
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 5: just how recent this is? Yes, Like this isn't this

1141
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 5: is pretty this kind of just happened.

1142
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1143
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: No.

1144
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: For another example of how recent it is, as like

1145
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 3: an adolescent, I think from the time he's probably around

1146
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: like ten or eleven to like his you know, maybe

1147
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 3: preteen or teenage years. He regularly attends jiu jitsu classes.

1148
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 3: He's into jiu jitsu as a kid, right, because this

1149
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 3: is an upper middle class kid in upper middle class

1150
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 3: Western kids have been going to karate for foreper you know,

1151
00:56:58,120 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 3: it's not literally karate.

1152
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: We got fine, Oh we get it. Say yeah.

1153
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 3: Fresh Hour also claims quote. For many months, the boy

1154
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: tortured himself with attempts to learn the piano, but his

1155
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 3: father soon realized that the awkward fingers would not follow

1156
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 3: the command of his over eager mind. Most boys are

1157
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: relieved when their parents agree to liberate for them from

1158
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 3: the attention of their music teachers. To Heinra Kimmler, it

1159
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 3: was a sad day when he was told that his

1160
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 3: hopeless endeavors had come to an end. For years afterwards,

1161
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 3: he would sit silently and listen to his elder brother

1162
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 3: extracting heavenly tunes from the self same piano which had

1163
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 3: defied him. On Sundays, he'd accompanied his brother to the church, where,

1164
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: to his envy, he was playing the organ for the congregation.

1165
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 5: This is I'm sorry, this is two positive points in

1166
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 5: the dad bucket here again, just to have this.

1167
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 4: A lot of daddies ain't got that self awareness to

1168
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 4: be black. Son, Son, you're not gonna make it as

1169
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 4: a piano player. Stop. Stop. You don't have to keep that, son,

1170
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 4: you don't have to keep playing this.

1171
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 5: That's not your thing. Look, you write the stories, you

1172
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 5: went to the novels. I'm not judging you about it.

1173
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 5: You a great student, son, but this piano just lead

1174
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 5: that to your brother.

1175
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm saying he's better than you.

1176
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 3: Better.

1177
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 4: Look, son, be it. Be good at what you're good at.

1178
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 4: You do the ju jitsu. Son, you are an amazing

1179
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 4: I stop hitting him, key son, Yeah, yeah you're not.

1180
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: This isn't This isn't baby boy.

1181
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 4: And look I need I don't need you to do

1182
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 4: don't do this for me, son, like go find something

1183
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 4: you good at.

1184
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 3: If only someone in the same conversation with Ringo star

1185
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 3: so yeah, that's coming in hot with some Ringo slanmer out.

1186
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 3: One of the many similarities between Ringo and Heinrich Kimmler.

1187
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 5: Or Ringo trying to get bars off and the songs

1188
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 5: like let them what what Ringo do wrong? I just

1189
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 5: I just yes and you and then it was like wait,

1190
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 5: I'm a Pete best stand Okay. So now again long

1191
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 5: Rich cautions for showers. Biography is a source and this

1192
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 5: is again not just because it's outdated, but becau because

1193
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 5: we're talking about like this passage really plays up that

1194
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 5: he is super jealous of his brother, his brother's beating

1195
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 5: much better than him at this and the source for

1196
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 5: this primarily is Heinrich's older brother Gebbart, after Heinrich's death,

1197
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 5: talking about like I was so good at the piano

1198
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 5: and he was. He never gets over the fact that

1199
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 5: I wasn't as good he wasn't he could never be

1200
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 5: as good as me.

1201
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 4: Maybe there's a degree to which Gebbart's But.

1202
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 3: If that's the case, if Gebart is lying about this,

1203
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 3: and either I mean Heinrich did try to play the piano,

1204
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: definitely and wound up it didn't work out. But if

1205
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 3: he's lying about Heinrich always, you know, being super jealous

1206
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 3: of his skill, that's just as interesting an insight into

1207
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 3: the Himler family dynamics. Either way, if the story's true

1208
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: or if it's a lie Gebert's telling, it's evidence that

1209
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 3: there's a lot of kind of competition and insecurity between

1210
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 3: the brothers, right.

1211
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 5: Or yeah, or just how he felt about it, like

1212
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 5: I feel like my little brother's jealous of me, right

1213
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 5: that as you said.

1214
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 3: That's yeah, I mean normal normal, But it suggests something

1215
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 3: about the fami about Heinrich, right, that there is this

1216
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 3: competitiveness between the brothers, and that is something that motivates

1217
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 3: him as his desire to compete and prove himself against

1218
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 3: his older brother. For Shower's book also goes into detail

1219
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 3: about the Himmler family's obsession with their ancestors. Describes a

1220
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 3: shrine in the family apartment that Himmler later named the

1221
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 3: Osen zimmer or ancestors room. He tries to get basically

1222
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 3: every family and certainly in the SS to have an

1223
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 3: ancestors room.

1224
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 2: This is a thing.

1225
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 3: Later Heinrich makes a big deal about Lawitch doesn't really

1226
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 3: talk about it in his biography. And I think it's

1227
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 3: because he later makes this into a shrine thing. I

1228
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 3: don't think this is a shrine for his parents. I

1229
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: think that's Himmler kind of working backwards and trying to say, like, oh,

1230
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 3: my father established this practice that we should bring to

1231
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 3: the Reich of having an ancestor shrine. The literal description

1232
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 3: of it is like it's some pictures of like their

1233
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 3: grandfather and some things he'd owned, and some things they've

1234
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 3: been sent over the years, mementos from family members. It's

1235
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 3: a memento cupboard, right.

1236
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 5: Says I live in you know, I live in East LA.

1237
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 5: There's a friendas everywhere. Yeah, you know, you have your altar.

1238
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: It's like it's not like an alter altar.

1239
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Himler gets super into the occult and will

1240
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 3: make this into and I think Himmler is exaggerating what

1241
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 3: this was. This is just like a pretty normal thing

1242
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 3: for ours to have. So by nineteen fourteen, which is

1243
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 3: when the World War one is going to break out.

1244
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 3: Heinrich is a promising teenage boy. He's thirteen fourteen years

1245
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 3: old this year. He's doing well in school, and he's

1246
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 3: just a couple of years away from entering the working world.

1247
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 3: If he had been a poor kid, he would be

1248
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 3: functionally an adult working at this point in time, right.

1249
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 3: And the plan is when he in a couple of years,

1250
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 3: two or three more years, when he's ready, he'll use

1251
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 3: the influence of his godfather to secure him place in

1252
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: a place in a really good school, and that'll help

1253
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 3: him secure a really good job, and he'll elevate the family.

1254
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 5: Right.

1255
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, for everyone, world events are going to conspire to

1256
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 3: stop this future from coming into existence. When Archduke fra

1257
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 3: Ferdinand was gunned down in Sarajevo by a crazed Bernard

1258
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: Montgomery Sanders, Heinrich Himler was on vacation with his family

1259
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 3: on the Austrian border. Look, Sophie, the truth has to

1260
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 3: get out, you know, someone has to stop him.

1261
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 5: Listen, time travel has existed for a long time, and

1262
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 5: I'm telling you, Bernard Sanders has got around. You know,

1263
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 5: he's gotten around, you know, Yeah, he actually he was

1264
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 5: actually even the group that signed Franz Ferdinand.

1265
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the band as well, the band, Yeah they started.

1266
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 4: He signed a band too.

1267
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 3: Every time there's a Franz Ferdinand in history, Bernie Sanders

1268
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 3: is involved. Bernie did he stab Caesar? You can't prove

1269
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 3: he didn't, so he must have. So the initial events

1270
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 3: when because Heinrich's on vacation with his family, when the

1271
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 3: Archduke gets assassinated and like the chain of events that

1272
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 3: leads inevitably to wars start off. He responds to this

1273
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 3: initial outbreak as just another in like the beginning of

1274
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 3: the war, as like just kind of another part of

1275
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 3: the day. His July twenty ninth, Diarentry reads Gebbrid's birthday

1276
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 3: outbreak and this is his brother outbreak of war between

1277
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 3: Austria and Serbia, excursion to Lake Waging.

1278
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 7: I mean he's nineteen, yeah, birthday, Austria and Serbia go

1279
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 7: to war, We go to the lake, you know, yeah, yeah,

1280
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 7: and I imagine like yeah, like that war for him

1281
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 7: is as far away as like you know what I'm saying, Like.

1282
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 3: It's initially like he doesn't know what it's gonna be, right, Yeah,

1283
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 3: and long Rich, especially because Austria and Serbia, like the Balkans,

1284
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 3: they're always shit's always going down there.

1285
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 4: Right, you don't even know like what, yeah, what is

1286
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 4: like you don't know what they are?

1287
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 3: What is Austria hungry? Like where's where's mine at? And

1288
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 3: obviously he know, but he knows, but this is a

1289
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 3: little for him. It's like it's like you hearing like, oh,

1290
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 3: you know, Israel's exchanging missiles with a MASSI That's what

1291
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 3: I'm trying to say. Prior to October seventh. Right now,

1292
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 3: obviously things are much like everything's been escalated significantly, you know,

1293
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 3: with the genocide and what not going on. But like

1294
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 3: five or six years ago you hear there's another exchange

1295
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 3: of missiles, right.

1296
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 4: Totally, you know that this.

1297
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 5: I was at this event one time, way up in

1298
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 5: the mountains in Utah, right, yeah, event with just these

1299
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 5: people like fuck off money and like years ago, this

1300
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 5: years ago, and then there was this you remember at

1301
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 5: what was happening with the Kurds at the Syrian border,

1302
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 5: like maybe about like you know, five six years ago

1303
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 5: maybe now seven years ago.

1304
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 2: Right amos ago.

1305
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was actually there and I think about it, right,

1306
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 5: So I was talking about it and like I said,

1307
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 5: I'm at this event with these very wealthy people. Uh,

1308
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 5: and this lady who was clearly like clearly from the regent,

1309
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:34,919
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Like, so we're talking about

1310
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 5: the situation and she was like, wait, what are you

1311
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 5: talking about? I don't think I heard of that. And

1312
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 5: in my head I'm judging her, like, man, see this

1313
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 5: is what happens.

1314
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 6: Man.

1315
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, You get wealthy. And then

1316
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 5: she goes, oh, no, you don't understand. I'm from Bay

1317
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 5: Route Yeah. I was like, oh, she was like, I'm

1318
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 5: born and raised in Bay. I went like, you're like

1319
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 5: your your school bus was blown out, like the windows

1320
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 5: were blown out because martyr hit it yesterday. So I'm like, oh,

1321
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 5: never mind, I apologize. Carry on jokes on me.

1322
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1323
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 3: And that's kind of like this is yeah, it's another

1324
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 3: Oh these these countries that like, you know, this place

1325
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 3: where there's always a conflict, there's a conflict. However, he

1326
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 3: goes back kind of later once it because I think

1327
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,919
Speaker 3: probably within hours, maybe a couple of days, it becomes

1328
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 3: clear that this is more severe and he goes back

1329
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 3: to his initial entry and he like he erases some

1330
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 3: stuff and he underlines the announcement of the outbreak of war.

1331
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 3: Later in red and he writes the sentence proclamation of

1332
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 3: a state of war. Once Germany declares wars, it goes

1333
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 3: back to his notes once it becomes clear this is

1334
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 3: more severe, and he writes he lists out the things

1335
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 3: that are happening as they're happening. Quote number one, Germany

1336
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 3: mobilizes the second Army Corps, even the landstorm, which is

1337
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 3: like there their national guard type yuyes Yeah. Number two

1338
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 3: played in the garden in the morning, afternoon as well.

1339
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 3: Seven to thirty Germany declares war on Russia. Three attacks

1340
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 3: on the French and Russian borders, planes and spies. We

1341
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 3: are packed up right away. So you get this what's

1342
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 3: so interesting. You get this idea of like starts out

1343
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: we're playing in the garden and in the morning, in

1344
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 3: the afternoon, and then I hear that like Germany's declared war,

1345
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 3: and then like there's fighting on the borders already. Uh,

1346
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 3: there's planes, there's reports of spies. We're packing up, we're leaving,

1347
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 3: we're in our vacation. Early.

1348
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 2: Things have gotten bad very quickly.

1349
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 5: You get that it's interest that there's something about that

1350
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 5: that's yeah, that's so modern. Yeah, it's like so close,

1351
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 5: like you know, I live and not even an eight

1352
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 5: minute drive from the Alameda Courthouse where the ice people

1353
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 5: that have been tained by ICE are like I can

1354
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 5: like I hear when like the smoke, Like I can

1355
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 5: hear them, you know what I mean. And it's like

1356
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 5: you're so I'm going, oh, made coffee, drop soul off

1357
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 5: at school. Oh hurd, some martyrs, heard some bombs go off,

1358
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 5: you know, saying oh there's some helicopters, you know what

1359
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 5: I'm saying. And it's like I should go pick up

1360
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 5: my daughter, like you know, like maybe grab her, let

1361
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 5: me go pick let me go pick her up, you

1362
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 5: feel me like, and then it's like you drop her off,

1363
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 5: and then me and my wife are like we're going

1364
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 5: to march.

1365
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to March. So then we leave to

1366
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 4: go to you know what I mean.

1367
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, So just like that's that reality of like or yeah,

1368
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,439
Speaker 5: like you're scrolling through your feed and yeah, there's there's

1369
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 5: a mass starvation on purpose happening, and then the next

1370
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 5: one is some sort of joke about you know, Edward Sharp.

1371
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, is the next thing you

1372
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 5: look at it is just something so real about him

1373
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 5: saying yeah.

1374
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 3: Like yeah, it's super interesting. You very really get that. Yeah,

1375
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 3: and it's this is the only member of the Nazi

1376
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 3: high command that we have this kind of granular detail on,

1377
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 3: like you get there's pieces like there's that famous picture

1378
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 3: of like Hitler in Berlin when the Kaiser declares war.

1379
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 3: You can see him in the crowd, like you literally

1380
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 3: find Hitler. It's a thing he wrote about, and like

1381
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 3: that's really interesting for Heinrichle've got almost like a minute

1382
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 3: to minute list of like what's happening to him as

1383
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 3: a kid as the war breaks out. That's so interesting

1384
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 3: and it's part of why these episodes there's gonna be

1385
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 3: so many of them. We'll try to keep it to

1386
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 3: two weeks, but there might be more than four episodes

1387
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 3: in those two weeks because we've got to close this

1388
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 3: episode out now, prop words, we're over an hour, so

1389
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 3: you know you got any pluggables to plug down at

1390
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 3: the end there.

1391
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, dude, hood politics, We're prop man. We've been really

1392
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 5: trying to step our game up over here. So we

1393
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,560
Speaker 5: do a Friday tap in which are like, you know,

1394
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 5: ten minute things that are uh yeah, just like little

1395
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:21,640
Speaker 5: extra thoughts, you know what I mean.

1396
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 4: Some of them are you know, a little a little

1397
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 4: more about me.

1398
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 5: Uh, We're I'm releasing a poetry album, uh about like

1399
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 5: the end of the world. So uh, we're gonna be

1400
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 5: talking about a lot of that on the tap in

1401
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 5: and yeah, man, we've been doing that. Terror Forms back,

1402
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 5: the Cold Bruce Back. It's not online yet, but it's

1403
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 5: back finally Crase b b.

1404
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 4: Finally Doug lot of business lessons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so

1405
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 4: the Cold Bruce Back, the y Yeah.

1406
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 3: And uh. Also, folks, we are currently raising money for

1407
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 3: the Portland Bail Fund. If you google donor box one

1408
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 3: word Defense Fund PDX fundraiser you can find the fundraiser. Yeah,

1409
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 3: that would help a lot if you want to donate

1410
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 3: money to the bail fund. They help bail out primarily

1411
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 3: homeless people who you know, it helps them get out,

1412
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 3: it helps them fight their case. You're a lot less

1413
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 3: likely to go to prison if you're out on bail

1414
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 3: as opposed to locked up. They do not they bail

1415
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 3: out anyone with the exception of like domestic abuse clients. Right,

1416
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 3: So it's a good fundraiser. They could use your help.

1417
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 3: Donor box Defense fund PDX fundraiser. Just google that, it'll

1418
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 3: take you right to it. Thank you all so much,

1419
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 3: Go to Hell.

1420
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: I love you. Behind the Bastards is a production of

1421
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit

1422
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: our website cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out

1423
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1424
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube,

1425
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: new episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel

1426
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards