1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Nadelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the show 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,079 Speaker 1: where we talk about all things drugs. But any of 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: views expressed here do not represent those of iHeart Media, 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, heat as 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: an inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: even represent my own and nothing contained in this show 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: should be used his medical advice or encouragement to use 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: any type of drug. Hello, Psychoactive listeners, So in a 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: few days you'll be hearing my interview on Psychoactive with 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: Garth Mullins. He's a drug user activists and award winning 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: radio documentarian and hosts an executive producer of the Crackdown podcast, 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: where drug users cover the drug war as war correspondents. 14 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: So advance of that, I thought i'd give you a 15 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: taste of an episode of Garth's podcast, specifically episode thirty, 16 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: where he talks about a drug giveaway organized by one 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: of the drug user organizations in Vancouver, which was trying 18 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: to challenge the government to step up more quickly to 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: respond to the overdose epidemic in that city. I think 20 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: I dispec Sam, it's okay to play up one rapper 21 00:01:48,280 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: like half an hour ago is a good rap. I'm 22 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: Arth Mullins. This is Crackdown, Episode thirty Drug User Liberation Front. 23 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: On the last episode of Crackdown, we told you the 24 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: story of one day. Wednesday, February the ninth. That was 25 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: the day British Columbia's Chief Corner announced the illicit drug 26 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: toxicity death statistics for last year. One was the sixth 27 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: year of the public health emergency. And it is with 28 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: tremendous sadness that I report that our province is in 29 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: a worse place than it has ever been in this 30 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: drug toxicity crisis. In one we lost two thousand, two 31 00:02:53,639 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty four people to elicit drug toxicity, two thousand, 32 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: two d and twenty four dead, a new grim record. 33 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: The government dodged our request to do an interview about 34 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: the statistics, and they held a press conference where they 35 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: mostly bragged about all the good work they're doing and 36 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: how they're trying so hard. Never have so many people 37 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: worked so hard and stood up so many supports. Ministers 38 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: Dix and Malcolmson still have not granted Crackdown an interview. 39 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: Drug user organizations like the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users, 40 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: the BC Association of People on Opioid Maintenance, and the 41 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: Drug User Liberation Front called on these ministers to step down, 42 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: to resign. Instead, they're giving themselves a pay raise millions 43 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: upon millions of dollars that dumped down the drain each year, 44 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: when the solution is right in front of their eyes. 45 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: On the same day, we held our own event, a 46 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: sort of memorial where we remembered our friends who died 47 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: the previous year and gave out a safe supply of 48 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: tested drugs. It was meant to show the world what 49 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: a post drug war future could look like. We're going 50 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: to distribute some drugs. These drugs have been tested by 51 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: mass spectrom the true by Amino Aci GiB sticks, by 52 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: f T I R testing to the best of our ability. 53 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: We are doing what the government should be doing, and 54 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed the drugs. But we didn't tell 55 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 1: you how we pulled this off. Where did the drugs 56 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: come from, who gave them away, and where did we 57 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: get the idea to do this in the first place. 58 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: I look like a criminal, but Jeremy looks like he 59 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: could be, you know, an average Okay, I'm I'm I 60 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: got really limited eyesight, and Radio has no eyesight, So 61 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to describe each other. Okay, Rris, you 62 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: described Jeremy. Jeremy looks okay, well to do, kind of 63 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: nice person like Patagonian jacket, blue jeans, like yellow tims, 64 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: but just like nicely caught hair, you know, relatively good. 65 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: You look like a scientist mixed with like a field researcher, geologist. 66 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,239 Speaker 1: Now you do me all right? Well, you know, Aris 67 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: looks like, uh, you know, a punk who got punched 68 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: in the head of like a couple too many times. Right. 69 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: If it was just me doing this without Jeremy, I 70 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: feel like we'd have a lot less public traction. You know, 71 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: it's good to have a figurehead that looks like respectable 72 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: enough that people trust them. This is Aris Nicks and 73 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: Jeremy Kellicum, organizers with the Drug User activist organization DOLF 74 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: that stands for Drug User Liberation Front. I'm also part 75 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: of the group. Dolf's philosophy is simple, don't wait around 76 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: for the government to do something. Do it yourself, even 77 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: if that means breaking the law. Arison Jeremy's on me 78 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: that they came to this kind of radical thinking through 79 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: very different ways. You know. Essentially, I come from low income, 80 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: delinquent roots, and you know, I really wanted to you know, 81 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: build something of myself and become a successful person. So 82 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: I had, you know, my plan all all mapped out, 83 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: and now I wanted to go into med school. UM. 84 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: So I was going through my undergrad and some doctor 85 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: came to our school to talk about, you know, how 86 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: to get into med school. And I'm like, oh, like, 87 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: what can I do to set myself apart from the pack. 88 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, why don't you open it like a 89 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: needle exchange, like do something cool. I was like, oh, 90 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: that's a great idea. Um. And that was right when 91 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: when people were pushing for overdose prevention sites and there 92 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: was a city counselor who was very vocal about it, 93 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: and I messaged him. I'm like, hey, like, why don't 94 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: we just set up an overdose prevention site? Like it 95 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: seems like people are doing that, um and you know, 96 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: it seems like something that we could we can make happen. 97 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, let's do it. And a 98 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: week later we set up an overdose prevention site in 99 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: the parking lot of City Hall in Nanaimo. Were you 100 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: a drug easier at the time of this, No, I'm 101 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: complete square and never even tried. We're really seeing many drugs. 102 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: It was just something that you know, I felt like 103 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: we should do. I thought it would be a good 104 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: kind of resume builder or whatever. I'm like, cool, like 105 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: this will help me stand out. And then it just 106 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, like really I realized I couldn't 107 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: step away, Like this wasn't a kind of one and 108 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: done sort of thing. I mean, I started working in 109 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: the shelter system when I was like quite young, like nineteen, 110 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: and I guess like at the time, I was a 111 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: bike mechanic and I was making like ten hour and 112 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: rain City was hiring for their like winter heats and 113 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: it was like twenty three dollars an hour, and I 114 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, like these are the homies. I'll 115 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: just go do that. Uh So, you know, it was 116 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: like the increase in wages. But at the longer I 117 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: did it, and I like doing that. I like hanging 118 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: out in the shelter and like helping people out and 119 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: being like, yo, you need food, you need me to 120 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: bridge you to this other shape. You need housing, like 121 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, that's what I like doing. But what drew 122 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: me into public policy was a fact everyone was dying. 123 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: I remember in Team Rolls Around, It's like everyone's dead. 124 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: There's like eight ten overdose of the shaft, like it's 125 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: crazy town. I remember the time Herris is talking about 126 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: there was a huge spike of deaths and the media 127 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: started to take notice. They started telling a story the 128 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: drug users had known for some time, Vent and All 129 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: was taken over the drug supply and causing people to 130 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: fatally overdose at an alarming rate, six overdoses and six 131 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: as morning. When narcan works, that is a good call. 132 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't in a province where a state of 133 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: emergency has been declared because two people are dying every day. 134 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: In April of that year, the provincial government declared a 135 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: public health emergency, but the declaration didn't come with any 136 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: kind of bold action, no decriminalization, no safe supply. Instead, 137 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: we got an anti stigma ad campaign and enough crocodile 138 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: tears to fill a swimming pool. Sister, daughter, friend, People 139 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: who use drugs are real people. Learn more at Stop 140 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: Overdose BC dot C. A A message from the government 141 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: of British Columbia. The government also put a special emphasis 142 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: on addiction treatment as one of the main ways to 143 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: fight the crisis. There's still long wait lists for most 144 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: inpatient programs here, but the government frequently announces new beds. 145 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: This always struck me as a pretty dubious and long 146 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: term solution to an immediate crisis. Treatment doesn't work for 147 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: most people, and when it does work, it can take years. 148 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: There's also no evidence to show that these kind of 149 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: programs actually lower the risk of overdose death, and in 150 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: many cases they increase the risk of overdose. All this 151 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: stuff from the government also seemed to ignore the weekend 152 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: warriors and first timers. What good is an anti STI 153 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: mccampaign for a kid who's trying oxy for the first time. 154 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: What good is addiction treatment for someone who uses coke 155 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: at a party every few months. We're in a mass 156 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: death crisis and we need solutions that are going to 157 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: save your life this afternoon, so we started to do 158 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,239 Speaker 1: it ourselves. Drug user activists, including several members of Crackdowns 159 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: editorial board, patrolled the downtown East Side with narcine. We 160 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: checked to see if people who had been slumped over 161 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: were still breathing. We became experts that bringing people back 162 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:47,479 Speaker 1: from the dead. Right now, I don't know. Like in September, 163 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: activists and Livingstone and Sarah Blythe opened an unsanctioned overdose 164 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: prevention tent in a back alley. It was an act 165 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: of bravery and defiance and it wasn't legal. Thinking back, 166 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: the beginning of the crisis feels very strange now, like 167 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: a different planet. It was a horrible time, but it 168 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: was also a time of some real political action. The 169 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: sheer scale of death showcase the humanity of our community 170 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: and the lengths we'd go to to help our most 171 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: alienated and vulnerable friends. Our lives were thrust into the 172 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: public eye like never before. Fentyl dealers are busy and 173 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: first responders are in high demand. Do I go to 174 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: hospital and get checked out? This is the new young 175 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: face of fentanyl addiction. The latest person to die is 176 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: a seventeen year old high school student. Young couple, a 177 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: husband and wife. They died they had mixed fentanyl with 178 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: other One year old man died in North Vancouver on Friday. 179 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: I remember the day Defense and all came out and 180 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: my dealer said, you know, I've got these new pills, 181 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: their fake boxes. He didn't tell me they were fentanyl, 182 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: because nobody knew what fentanyl was. Yet everybody that we 183 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: touch and everybody that we deal with, has a story. 184 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: If I can get off, I would, But mostly detoxes 185 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: are full, all the shelters are full. Every time you don't, 186 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: I know I'm taking a risk. I know that I 187 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: might die, but at that point you're not really thinking 188 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: about that because you're so dopey. You just want to 189 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: feel better, right, doesn't matter how many times I indeed, 190 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: I still use the xtate because the worst falls are 191 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: so bad. They could never really see us when we 192 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: were alive, but in death, so many deaths, finally we 193 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: were noticed. Maybe it was the overdoses of white middle 194 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: class kids that pushed us into the public eye. Maybe 195 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: it was the sheer scale, so many deaths, but it 196 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: seemed like they finally saw us. But then what happened. 197 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: Those illegal ops tents were given a little money and 198 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: we're sanctioned. There were a few half measures, but eventually 199 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: things just kind of settled into this awful malaise. The 200 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: national press moved on to cover other crises. The government 201 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: stopped talking and thinking about us nearly as much, and 202 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: so the death continued. The sense of urgency evaporated. Was 203 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: a year they were like, oh, everything's gotten better. The 204 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: interventions we have are working, no no now ops sites, 205 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 1: overdose prevention sites and the locks, and this is successful. 206 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: Rolls around and everybody starts fucking dying even worse than 207 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: before us or I'm trying not to swear, go ahead 208 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: and scrapped down as many bombs as you want, well 209 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: at any rate. So comes around and everyone starts dying 210 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: a lot, and I think that, you know, really motivated 211 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: people to be like, this is far from over and 212 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: we need to do something direct. When COVID nineteen hit, 213 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: borders closed and drug prices jumped. Suddenly, there was way 214 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: more benzos in the dope. People were passing out for 215 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: hours and hours. The drug supply was more dangerous than ever. 216 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: It was so hard for you know, drug user groups 217 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: when when COVID started, because it was it was never 218 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: really a COVID emergency for us, Like as soon as 219 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: it started, we knew exactly what's gonna happen. We're like, 220 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: they're gonna shut down all the services. People who are 221 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness are gonna be left out starving with their 222 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: feet soaked, and you know people, they're gonna close overdose 223 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: prevention sites that really restrict them, and like, lots of 224 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: people are gonna die. Around that time, I started to 225 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: get calls from government officials. They were asking me what 226 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: to do if I was in their position, how could 227 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: I keep people from dying. It was pretty clear they 228 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: knew we were about to break records. The thing I 229 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: kept telling them was safe Supply. We need to fucking 230 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: safe supply at drugs. Don't try to convince us not 231 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: to use drugs. Don't wait until we're on the edge 232 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: of death before doing something to help give us a 233 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: regulated pharmaceutical version of ventanyl, heroin, crack, cocaine, meth whatever, 234 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: allow us to know what's in our drugs. The government 235 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: eventually did put out something they called Safe Supply, but 236 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: it didn't include the drugs that people actually used on 237 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: the street, and it required doctors to prescribe them to us, 238 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: and for reasons I'll get into later in this episode, 239 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: it failed to make a real den and all the 240 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: death new numbers from the Corner Service show May was 241 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: the deadliest month yet in the overdose crisis. Last month, 242 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: the hundred and seventy people died. That's a forty four 243 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: percent jump from April. That's a new record for a 244 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: single month. Drug overdoses are getting so much worse. In 245 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: all of June, eight people died from COVID from Melissa 246 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: drugs one hundred and seventy five, a new all time 247 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: monthly records, surpassing the previous record, which was the month before. 248 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Another one hundred and seventy five people have died from 249 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: overdoses in July alone, the vast majority of them connected 250 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: to fentanyl. The overdose numbers came out and there was 251 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: like the worst month ever, and we're like, this is 252 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: a this is a travesty. We need to do something 253 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: right away. UM. So that's when we called together that meeting. 254 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: Now I remember, I think you both were there. You 255 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: were Arrison was like on zoom or something, and we're 256 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: talking about doing this and talking about a name, making 257 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: a group that wasn't any of the existing groups like 258 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: b c U, Connor Vandy or whatever, and it was 259 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: like what do we call it? And people were suggesting 260 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: safe supply this or safe supply that, and then the 261 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: conversation went to like, well, the government has now made 262 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: that word really hard to unpack, and and was like 263 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: liberation Front, you know, like that old seventies militancy, and 264 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: that's the name that's stuck the drug user liberation Front. 265 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: Those words felt uncooptible to us, and a plan started 266 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: to emerge by drugs, test them and hand them out 267 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: for free in public, Invite the media and let the 268 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: whole world see what we're doing. Let everyone know what 269 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: a safe supply really looks like. The first action that 270 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: we threw together is really fast, um, and I was 271 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: I was pretty confident that I could get it from 272 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: from the dark web, and the people who are trying 273 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: to source in person ended up they all ended up 274 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: falling through. And the only one that reliably came through 275 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: with the darknet. This has long been like an idea 276 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: you talked about in the neighborhood, you know, like giving 277 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: out drugs, Like and Livingston several years ago was like, 278 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: we should just have a sock full that delatted and 279 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: handed out and like at the side of meetings and 280 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: conferences and then and so I remember that first giveaway. 281 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: It was like in June, you know, they had a 282 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: little tent on dun Levy Street and the spectrometer readings 283 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: and the dope was being given out in the tent, 284 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: but there wasn't heroin, right, It was like that nobody 285 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: could find that yet, at least not in a not 286 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: in a concentration or not like with ingredients that we're 287 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: happy with, right, that's right. Yeah, so we did. We 288 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: did end up finding heroin, but it was it was 289 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: cut with with fent on, and so we decided to 290 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: skip the heroin and just hand out coke and opium instead. 291 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: We set up a little blue tent near VANDU on 292 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: the corner of dun Levan Hastings. The cops were right 293 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: across the street. Someone was playing the Clash on the 294 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: boom box. People lined up, laughing and chatting, some not 295 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: really believing this was happening, and they got to choose 296 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: a couple of points of coke or some opium. The 297 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: government is not coming to save us, so we have 298 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: to save ourselves. That's what we fucking learned. We learned it. 299 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: We learned it with safe injection sites. They weren't going 300 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: to set up Insight until we set up sites there 301 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: and there illegally without permission ourselves. First, we broke the 302 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: law to embarrass them into doing it. That was the 303 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: last overdose crisis. There's another overdose crisis, and our demand 304 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: is safe supply and it's the same fucking thing. They're 305 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: not going to give it to us, so we better 306 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: fucking do it ourselves. And that's what today is all about. 307 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: What we devote free drugs to a tiny percentage of 308 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: the people on the downtown east Side who could have 309 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: used them, and our quantities were very small. That wasn't 310 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: going to give people what they needed for the day, 311 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: but it was provocative. It showed what was possible, and 312 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: in the words of activist Phoenix McGreevy, it felt like 313 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: a tiny moment of liberation. The cops didn't arrest anyone 314 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: that day, and the government basically ignored our action. So 315 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: we decided to do it again. We started planning more ahead, 316 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: and we're able to you know, we wouldn't plan an 317 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: action until we actually had the substances to avoid that 318 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: sort of um, kind of chaotic rush to find good dope. 319 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: So what we do is we crowd fund money from 320 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: middle class, normal well to do citizens. We take their money, 321 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: we turn it into bitcoin. We trade the bitcoin for 322 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: ma Narrow, which is an untraceable form of cryptocurrency. We 323 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: use Linux to go on these dark web markets using 324 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: Onion servers, so it's like relatively private, you know, you 325 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: engage with these vendors on these dark dark web markets 326 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: and then your drugs just come in the mail. The 327 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: first time I did it, I was like, I can't 328 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: believe you know, this just worked right? Uh? And it 329 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: continues to like I have Heroin with me right now. 330 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: Let's see. So this is like this is like a 331 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: cardboard package that came into mail right with postal marks 332 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: all over it, like did Amazon give us to you? No? No, 333 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: nook there it is right there, us pointing the microphone 334 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: at it as if that tell us here's all the 335 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: work that has brought us here on this day of action. 336 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: On this the fourteenth of April, the fifth year declaration 337 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: of the overdose crisis. Seventeen hundred people died last year 338 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: and these aren't faceless April fourteen, that's that was the 339 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: five five year anniversary of the declaration of the overdose 340 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: crisis in BC. And there's an event and I remember 341 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: the lineup was down the alley, you know, between Hastings 342 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: and pender Off a dune Levy there and oh yeah, 343 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: all the way over to Gore. Yeah, they went down 344 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: the whole alley. We're gonna keep getting out of the 345 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: free drugs of free drugs are in this time over here, 346 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: pre cocaine, heroin, and methap set a name, all playing 347 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: all tests and we're not gonna stock of just stock. 348 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: We kind of screwed up because we were just like, 349 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: if you use drugs, if you're over the age of eighteen, 350 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: we will screen you. You can get pre screened at 351 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: Van do blah blah blah. So it was just like 352 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: everybody that used drugs, our screening wasn't you had to 353 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: be an active member of a drug user group in 354 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. It was just like, do you use drugs? 355 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: Are you over eighteen? And uh, you know there were 356 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: advantages to that, I e. Like, people that aren't members 357 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: of these groups could have access to a safe supply 358 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: at that time for that one you know dose. But 359 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: I'm also just like the amount of people that wanted 360 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: the dope that didn't get it because we didn't you know, 361 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: give people like tickets or counted out. You know, people 362 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: lined up and then waited for a while, and some 363 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: people were hollering at me out it, you know, like 364 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: and everybody. I just remember because we had to. We 365 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: were doing a march afterwards in Jeremy was just like 366 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: start the march. These people are gonna kill me. And 367 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: I was just like, we fucked up? What was that? 368 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: Like what was happening? Well, you know, we we kind 369 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: of like ran out of all the dope we're supposed 370 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: to have people kind of running up and down the 371 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: line like letting people know that, like what's what's happening, 372 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: and um, you know if some some people kind of 373 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: got tired. It was a long day and like the 374 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: message didn't get all the way down the line. I'm like, 375 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: we're out. Like I've been telling them to like run 376 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: down the line like as we go, like and they're 377 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: like someone's gonna beat that ship out of you, Like 378 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: you gotta get out of here right now. And people 379 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: are like, where is that guy. I'm like, Arias, we 380 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: gotta go now, we gotta go. No more cloud seconds 381 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: they've all been Vancouver art punk band crack Cloud played 382 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: off the back of a flat bed. A big crowd 383 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: followed as they rolled down Hastings heavy riffs echoing off 384 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: the old s r os despite running out of DOLP. 385 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: Dolf's second giveaway was a big success, and it had 386 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: an almost joyful feel to it, with rock bands and 387 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: a barbecue. Nothing about the giveaway felt medical or bureaucratic. Soon, 388 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: Dolf had plans to do a third giveaway, but this 389 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: time it would be even more provocative. It would really 390 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: give people something to talk about. The three big events 391 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: we did over the summer were designed to have a 392 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: lot of media, Paul and a lot of attention drawn 393 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: to them. That's why we're doing the blog parties and stuff, 394 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: and we're trying to figure out where we want to 395 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: do it. And the idea was floated in front of 396 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: the cop shop and we're like, oh, that seems like 397 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: kind of stupid, like that seems like we're just asking 398 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: to like get our just get beat um. But you know, 399 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: then it then it just like became this this thing 400 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: where we're like, it's it's it's not really about protecting us, 401 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: it's about making a statement and really getting this kind 402 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: of conversation happening. And it was one of the most 403 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: strategic things that I think we did. And then we 404 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: were like, well, it would be nice if we had 405 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: somebody who has a little bit more kind of protection 406 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: to be able to give this stuff out. It just 407 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: so happened that we knew someone who fit the Bill 408 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: City councilor James Swanson. I've known Gene for a few years, 409 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: long before she became a city counselor. She was a 410 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: community organizer, a dogged radical force for social change. And 411 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: Jeane just recently would had like donated some some money, 412 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: like a thousand dollars to the Drug User Liberation Front 413 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: and we're like, hey, Geane, it seems like you know, 414 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: you're a real ally here. Um, we have a crazy idea. 415 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: What do you say you come and give out the 416 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: dope with us? And she's like yeah, I'm like it's 417 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: gonna get a bit crazier. We're gonna do it right 418 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: in front of the police station in the downtown you side. 419 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: And she's like, yeah, that sounds great. Thanks so much 420 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: to Dolphin Van Do for organizing this. It's so so 421 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: so bad that you had to organize it. Um, I 422 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about something you did this 423 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: week because you're taking some heat over it. You hand 424 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: it out legal drugs with an organization or illicit drugs 425 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: with an organization called the Drug Users Liberation Front. Um, 426 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: what exactly did you do so? Uh Dolf? That Drug 427 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: Users Liberation Front and van do the vancouvern are a 428 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: network of drug user's had an action. They asked me 429 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: to come and hand out shape drugs that they had tested. 430 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: We need government to act like the people who die 431 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: from poison drugs are just as important as the people 432 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: who die from cold, because they are, and that means 433 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: we need safe supply now for everyone who wants it. 434 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: Is that really what you should be doing as an 435 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: elected person for the glo of the city. That isn't 436 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: a big question that we should be asking. The big 437 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: question we should be asking is should six almost six 438 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: people a day be dying from a preventable cause. We 439 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: need a safe supply, and we need it now, and 440 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: we can't keep waiting and waiting and waiting. Perhaps measures 441 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: and Aris. You were dressed up as Willy Wonka that day, right, 442 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: I was high and I was like, wouldn't it be 443 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: funny if we mailed everyone a giant Willie Wonka ticket 444 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: inviting them to this event, just like the film Willy Wonka. Well, 445 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: once you have the golden ticket idea, then you're like, 446 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: it's a golden ticket giveaway. Then you're like, I'm Willie Wonka. 447 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: You know, I've heard you say that this is like 448 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: a symbolic action. It's not meant to give everyone what 449 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: they need for across the whole neighborhood for the whole 450 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: day or whatever it's it's it's supposed to be provoking 451 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: action from government, right. I think drug policy is a 452 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: really I mean, aside from its relationship to you know, 453 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: systematic racism, it's a game of public opinion. So what 454 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: you want to do is try and get as much 455 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: price and as much good press on the issue to 456 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: try and sway people's understanding of why this policy needs 457 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: to be changed. I see this the same way as Heiress. 458 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: It's all still mostly about changing people's minds. I really 459 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: wish I could tell you that we could just do 460 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: it ourselves, that we could just grow poppies or buy 461 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: enough drugs to replace the toxic drug supply. But you've 462 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: got to stop and consider the scale. Experts estimate that 463 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: over a hundred thousand people regularly use illicit opioids in BC. 464 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: There's even more people if you count all the weekend 465 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: warriors and not to mention the people who use side 466 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: or smoke rock. Completely replacing the toxic drug supply for 467 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: all those people is a massive undertaking. The only institution 468 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: that's big enough to deliver access to safe drugs for 469 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: that many people might be the state. So so far, 470 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: DOLPH has only been able to give out a couple 471 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: of points to a few dozen people at a handful 472 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: of events. But these actions show what's possible. They're pushing 473 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: the conversation about safe supply into the mainstream, and they're 474 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: putting pressure on the government to offer that kind of 475 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: program at scale. I think the proof is in the pudding. 476 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: We know we've given out over a hundred and twenty 477 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: grams of drugs. Nobody's overdosed. To me, it's a problem 478 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: with the regulation of drugs, and I think what we're 479 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: illustrating is as long as people know what they're getting 480 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: and what they're dosing themselves with, they aren't going to die. Uh. 481 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: Here's here's the thing. I'm like, we're not adding anything 482 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: to the market. The purpose of DOLPH is to take 483 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: drugs that already exists. They are already there. You know, 484 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: all the they're in the country, all the crimes happened, uh, 485 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: and to take them out of the market, test them, 486 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: label them, and reintroduce them. That we're not adding any 487 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: additional drugs to the market. We're not manufacturing government on 488 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: producing drugs. Were just taking what exists and labeling and 489 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: then giving it back to people without making any money. 490 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: So do you need someone behind all that writing a prescription? 491 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: Hell no, no prescribers. Maybe maybe that's a good thing 492 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: to explain. Actually, what what's the problem with prescribers? So 493 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: I can I can talk to this as pretty well 494 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: as you know, someone who's kind of working uh in 495 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: a sort of safe supply evaluation, and it talked to 496 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: two lots of doctors. Um. You know, either doctors don't 497 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: want to prescribe because they're you know, opposed to the 498 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: whole you know, concept of harm reduction. Or the ones 499 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: who do are are so afraid that they're going to 500 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: be audited by the college because they are being audited regularly, um, 501 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: or they're bullied by their colleagues and don't prescribe. And 502 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, kind of going a bit deeper than that, 503 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: like it's safe supplies just something that is not fit 504 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: for the medical system and relationships that people have with 505 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: their healthcare providers. UM. You know, if you go to 506 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: your your doctor is someone who's like an alcoholic and 507 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: you ask for you know, more and more alcoholic, you 508 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: know your doctor is gonna be like, well, maybe we 509 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: should like think about weaning you off UM. And you 510 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: know that's that's the same thing that's gonna gonna happen 511 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: with like substances, and that's not people's relationships with substances. 512 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: A lot of the time. Some people are recreational and 513 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: some people have chaotic patterns, but coercion doesn't work, and 514 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: neither does UM force treatment. It's I can just chime 515 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: in here too. I'm just like, this really makes me 516 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: mad about modern drug rhetoric, where people are like, drugs 517 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: aren't a criminal issue, there are a medical issue. There 518 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 1: neither a criminal issue nor a medical issue. There are 519 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: social issue, and it's an issue of bad regulation. So 520 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: anyone out there in radio land listening to this, stop 521 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: saying that drugs are a medical issue. You know, chaotic 522 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: patterns of substance use, So people are using drugs and 523 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: it's just drying their lives. I'm like, that's an issue, 524 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean everyone who uses drugs has a 525 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: substance whose disorder or a mental disorder, or are traumatized. 526 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: Drugs are are fun and uh, you know, I like 527 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: doing them. I might have my own problems, but I 528 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: don't see them as a crutch. I see them to 529 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: a means of enjoying things. You know. In November, Dolph 530 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: apply to make what they're doing legal. They sent documents 531 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,959 Speaker 1: off to the federal government with the support of Vancouver 532 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: City Council. If granted, Dolph would be able to run 533 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: a legally sanctioned compassion club. It's been five months and 534 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: still no word from the federal government. So that's what 535 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: we dream of creating in BC. But what do we 536 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: actually have? What options do drug users have right now 537 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: to avoid the deadly street supply. If you watch the 538 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: mainstream news or listen to government press conferences, you might 539 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: have heard that BC already has a safe supply. That's 540 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: what the government claims. It's just not true, but has 541 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: effectively muddied the waters and made life much more challenging 542 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: for drug user activists. The story starts back in COVID 543 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: and the overdose crisis were raging, and the BCNDP quickly 544 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: rolled out a new program called Risk Mitigation Prescribing. It 545 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: was a set of directives to physicians. For the first time, 546 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: they were told they could prescribe medications to drug users 547 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: as a substitute for the illegal street supply, not part 548 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: of a treatment program or any kind of pain management, 549 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: just to keep them out of the illicit market. I 550 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: consulted on these guidelines and it felt like they were 551 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: a little step forward. We even covered the Risk Mitigation 552 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: program on Crackdown when it first launched. What I'm doing 553 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: right now is legal. This is a legal process that 554 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: I have been accepted to do. I don't know. I 555 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: just hope it's going to be a different chapter in 556 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: my life. Ye I guess we have to give us 557 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: a try. Here. Is you really going on? You're hearing 558 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: Crackdown editorial board member Laura shaver Back in March. Laura 559 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: was one of the first people I knew who got 560 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 1: drugs through this new program. So I UM, I got 561 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: ahold of my doctor yesterday's UM and asked, uh if 562 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: I can get the safe reply basically UM replacement for 563 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: my heroin youth and my UM cocaine use and and 564 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: that's above and beyond what I already have as my 565 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: metadult prescription and would the doctors say, She says, Okay, 566 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: how much are you using? What? What? What is the 567 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: which one would you like? Wow? Well, I'm really glad 568 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: for you, Laura. I'm really I'm really happy for you. 569 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: Thank you, And I'm actually pretty happy to you. I'm 570 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: excited because it's just actually might be a kind of 571 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: a different maybe a different except for me that I 572 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: had planned. Maybe I'm going to finally get to do 573 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: non street narcotics and not have to be street narcotics anymore. Yeah, 574 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: I hope so me too. It would be kind of cool, 575 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: I think. But Laura didn't stop using street drugs. The 576 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: government's so called safe Supply program wasn't enough for her, 577 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: and it hasn't been enough for almost everyone I talked 578 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: to about it. This week Crackdowns On. Ryan McNeil published 579 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: a paper about BCS risk mitigation prescribing program in the 580 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: American Journal of Public Health. So I wanted to have 581 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: him on the show to tell us what he found. Hey, Ryan, 582 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: it's been a minute, Um, welcome back. Can you introduce yourself? Great, 583 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: Hi Garth, It's Ryan mcnale. I'm an assistant professor in 584 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: the school of Medicine at Yale and uh I Guess 585 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: Scientific advisor for Crackdown Fucking A. Ryan McNeil recently published 586 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: a paper about BCS risk Mitigation prescribing program in the 587 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: American Journal of Public Health. In his paper, Ryan set 588 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: out to find out what drug users actually think of it. 589 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: We've got the study approved and then we started talking 590 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: to people in February of and what we really wanted 591 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: to do is kind of get a cross section of 592 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: folks from across the province who had accessed or tried 593 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: to access prescriptions under the guidelines to really understand, you know, 594 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: what's happening. How do they feel about this change and 595 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: then finally were they able to access prescriptions and how 596 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 1: and then what impact did they have on their lives? 597 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: And so we ended up talking um to forty people 598 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: predominantly in Vancouver the Interior and uh from Vancouver Island. 599 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: The first thing Ryan's participants tell him isn't the drug 600 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: supply became way worse during COVID. The price of meth 601 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: was skyrocketing, there were more benso diazepines in the down 602 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: than ever before, and there was absolutely massive fluctuations in 603 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: the potency of fentanyl in the middle of that clusterfuck. 604 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: Many of the participants were eager to try out the 605 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: government's new program, and so folks you know, talked about, hey, 606 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: you know what, it is helpful to me, right, It 607 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: does to some extent, limit my engagement with the drug supply. 608 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: It does let me kind of establish better patterns around 609 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: my drug use, especially as we're experiencing this huge shot 610 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: to the supply. But ultimately, like we we can't pretend 611 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: it's the same thing, it's what I'm used to, or 612 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: that it allows or accommodates the types of drug using 613 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: experience that I want. And that was mostly because the 614 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: drugs were not the same ones people used in the street. 615 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: If you use meth, they might put you on adderall. 616 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: If you're wired de fentanyl and enzos, they put you 617 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: onto lauded. And that's just not good enough. Most people 618 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: I know can't even get by on heroin anymore. Not 619 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: to mention lots of people got prescribed way too small 620 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: a dose to keep them from feeling sick. Ultimately, so 621 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: many people framed it as you know what, it's good, 622 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: but it's not the same. I mean, there's one of 623 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: our participants who put it one particular way, which is like, 624 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, separately, is like the crassest quote I've ever 625 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: been able to get into an act academic paper, and 626 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, awesome, But he basically put it this way, 627 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: and it's like it's the terms that everybody described it. 628 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: So it's just fucking boring. I don't feel the rush. 629 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: It's like having fucking sereal with no milk. It's just 630 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: like jerking off with no busting a nut, you know 631 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: what I mean, It's not the same. And so what 632 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: this meant for so many people that we talked to, 633 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: and really the majority of them, we're still supplementing their 634 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: use by accessing street based drugs. Yeah, I definitely, you know, 635 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: I see a thirty three out of the forty respondents 636 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: in your the people you interviewed, we're still relying on 637 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: the street supply, at least in part. And that really 638 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: reflects what I saw too, is people started off with 639 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: a lot of hope, um, but then a handful of 640 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: delauted just is an ups to substituting for um, you know, 641 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: really powerful fentanyl or benzo dope. You know, it just 642 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: it just doesn't bridge people across. And certainly one of 643 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: the things that we saw with the guideline implementation is that, 644 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, close to people who were able to access 645 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: a prescription, we're put on basically daily dispensation. That an 646 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: fortunate part of really the method own program pored it 647 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: over to this and folks being put on on daily 648 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: pick up. In other words, Ryan's participants had pretty complicated 649 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,720 Speaker 1: feelings about the program, and that's how people who actually 650 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: got prescriptions feel. An even bigger problem with the risk 651 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: mitigation guidelines is that only a tiny percentage of BC's 652 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: drug users could actually access the program. Ryan was curious 653 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: about why, and so we wrote a Freedom of Information 654 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: Act request to see some of the government's emails. One 655 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: email in particular jumped out at him so uncovered in 656 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: this kind of hundreds of pages of documents, So we 657 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: ended up getting back It was this email from uh 658 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: Dr David Unger, who's the Deputy Registrar of the College 659 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: of Physicians and Surgeons BC. Here's what doctor Unger's email says, quote, 660 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: I write with deep concern. There's been tremendous backlash and 661 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: the guidelines put out thus far from doctors that manage 662 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: addiction patients and in adictions specialist stating to me that 663 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: they're shocked at the College has permitted these guidelines to 664 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 1: be put up. Doctors feel that they're being put into 665 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: positions where they're being asked to do guided to do 666 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: things that are dangerous unquote. In a very concrete way. 667 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: This is laying out that there was opposition to these guidelines, 668 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: and it's coming directly from the people vested with the 669 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 1: responsibility of caring for folks who use drugs. I mean, 670 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: I can confirm this. I just I saw so many 671 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: examples of doctors who did not want to do this, 672 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: you know who just said either in meetings or two 673 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: people we were trying to help get on the prescribing 674 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: you know. No, the opposition from doctors has been so 675 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: loud that it's even made its way into government press conferences. 676 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: Here's Dr Remnick dossage from Doctors of BC speaking into 677 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: press conference with Sheila Malcolmson, BCS, Minister of Mental Health 678 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: and Addictions. I don't mind telling you that as a doctor, 679 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: it's not an easy decision to prescribe a narcotic. Even 680 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: if it is regulated, there can be all kinds of 681 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: ramifications for the patient and for the prescriber. Doctors will 682 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: look at all extenuating circumstances before deciding on this approach. 683 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: So to sum it all up, BCS so called Safe 684 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: Supply program is not accessible to most drug users, doesn't 685 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 1: give those few who can access it the drugs they're 686 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: actually using on the street, doesn't provide most people a 687 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: dose necessary to avoid withdrawal symptoms, requires almost everybody to 688 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: go to the pharmacy every single day, and is being 689 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: administered by a community of doctors who are very uncomfortable 690 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: with the whole thing. Hey, can you hear me asking? 691 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: This is Moira Whiten, a health reporter with the TIE. 692 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: Moira and I both heard the press conference where the 693 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: government claimed they had offered around twelve thousand people what 694 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: they called safe supply. I wasn't so sure, and neither 695 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: was Moira. I emailed and I asked if they could 696 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: provide the substances that they're counting under that number, and 697 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 1: and then I pressed a little bit more. They actually 698 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: gave me the breakdown, um, and what I found is that, 699 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, none of the drugs that they were counting 700 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: under the twelve thousand people figure were actually drugs that 701 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: people would necessarily be seeking on the illicit supply like 702 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: in a in a regular way. Um, you know, if 703 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: someone were using methamphetamine, they would be prescribed at all, 704 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: and so that would be counted in this twelve thousand 705 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: person figure. So what they're counting in that figure are 706 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: mostly short term under three weeks prescriptions. It's not safe 707 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: supply UM as as you and listeners will know, UM 708 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 1: because it's counting alternatives UM to the street supply rather 709 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: than direct untainted replacements. And so Moira says, this made 710 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: you're curious how many people in BC are actually on 711 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: something that resembles what we would call a safe supply. 712 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: How many people are getting the kind of drugs they 713 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: previously used on the street and without any expectation of 714 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: a taper or anything else. There are a number of 715 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: like about four or five pilot projects that are mostly 716 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: federally funded, that are providing safe supply in NBC. Is 717 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: also an estimate, because um, we don't have like a 718 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: centralized publicly reported number from those federal pilot projects that 719 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: are operating in addition to the crosstown clinics. From the 720 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: estimate I have, there's about a hundred and thirty people 721 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: UM at most I know it does fulctuate slightly at 722 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: Crosstown UM, and then a handful more in Surrey receiving 723 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: inductible diocetle morphine as well. UM. And then there is 724 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: the Safer Initiative in Victoria and a couple of other 725 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: pilot projects that are very small in scale. Five people. 726 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: That's an absolutely tiny number. I don't even know if 727 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: all five hundred of those people are actually getting the 728 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: dose that they need. This just isn't what a serious 729 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: emergency response looks like. This isn't what it looks like 730 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 1: when they care whether we live or die. Maybe the 731 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: government hopes this is all just going to go away, 732 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: that there just won't be any of us left, but 733 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't count on that. Experts say the number of 734 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:05,399 Speaker 1: people regularly using illicit opioids keeps going up, and as 735 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,439 Speaker 1: the old drug user adage goes, things can always get worse, 736 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: and they usually do. Can you imagine if the energy 737 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: put into COVID vaccination was put into ensuring access to 738 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: say for supply among folks and bc as more people 739 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: have died of overdose than of covid R. Yeah, what 740 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: we really heard from folks is, you know, a in 741 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: some communities there were just no prescribers, no willing prescribers, 742 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: or there were very few. I think we see this 743 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: in government announcements all the time, where there's this tendency 744 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: to ward wanting to act like, hey, you know, it's 745 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: safe supply. We're doing that, you know, wrap a little 746 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: bow on it, call it done. It's out there in 747 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 1: the world, and that's it. And and really this is 748 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: the first step, and many more are going to be 749 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: needed to ensure the people actually have access to what 750 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: they need. Dolf's drug giveaways not only show what's possible, 751 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,879 Speaker 1: but breaking the law seems to be the only way 752 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 1: that we get anywhere. Civil disobedience and twisting the government's 753 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,280 Speaker 1: arm is how we got access to syringes, crack pipes, 754 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: and overdose prevention sites. It's the same thing with safe supply, 755 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 1: but the state is crafty. They've stolen our word, watered 756 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: it down, and created a high barrier program that only 757 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: a few can access. And then right wing calumnists and 758 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,319 Speaker 1: conservative politicians and other governments point at BC and they say, look, 759 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,839 Speaker 1: they tried safe supply and it doesn't work, even though 760 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: the truth is we haven't really tried safe supply here 761 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: at all. So I'm saying to governments, stop patting yourselves 762 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: on the back for doing funk all. Stop calling whatever 763 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: water down bullshit. You got safe supply. If you're not 764 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,320 Speaker 1: going to help, at least take our word out of 765 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:21,720 Speaker 1: your mouth. Crackdown is produced on Musquilliam, Squamish and Slay 766 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: with the Territories. If you like what we do, please 767 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 1: consider donating at patreon dot com slash crackdown pot. The 768 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: research covered in this episode is part of a supplement 769 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 1: in the American Journal of Public Health. It's called Crisis 770 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 1: and Change, Overdose and Health Justice, During and After COVID. 771 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: Our editorial board is Simona Marsh, Sheldon Caster, Greg Frez, 772 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Lowden, Dean Wilson, Laura Shaber, Rian Jean and Rest 773 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: in Peace, Dave Murray and Charis Q. Watt. This episode 774 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: was conceptualized, written and produced by Sam Fen, Alex Kim, 775 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,240 Speaker 1: Alex Dubour, Lisa Hale, Ryan McNeil, and me Garth Mollins. 776 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,720 Speaker 1: Thanks also to Alex Betsos We're Sorry for your Dad's passing, 777 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: My Friend. Sound design by Alex Kim. Original score was 778 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: written and performed by James Ash, Sam Finn and I 779 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: stay safe and keep six