Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 1: and speaker.
Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 2: our careers and our families.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
Speaker 1: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
Speaker 1: episode is airing at the beginning of October of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. It's going to be a bit of a
Speaker 1: Hodgepodge episode. We're going to do a quick rundown of
Speaker 1: our new school year routines and what's working for us
Speaker 1: and anything we're thinking of changing up. We're also going
Speaker 1: to do a brief discussion of whining. Has been a
Speaker 1: hot topic for us for our Patreon community forums. It happens.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying my children ever whine, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: nobody listening to this has children who ever whine, but
Speaker 1: theoretically it could happen, and if so, we want to
Speaker 1: share some thoughts about it and ways to deal with
Speaker 1: it and hopefully come out of it with our own
Speaker 1: mental health intact. And then finally, in the question, we're
Speaker 1: going to do a slightly deeper dive into a question
Speaker 1: about a childcare and early childhood education and how those
Speaker 1: things fit together. But first of all, Sarah, you guys
Speaker 1: are like six weeks into the new school year by
Speaker 1: the time this is airing, right, you've been doing this
Speaker 1: for a while.
Speaker 2: Yes, we are. I know you said new school year
Speaker 2: and I'm like newish at this point. I don't know
Speaker 2: what percentage we are the way through, but it's not
Speaker 2: tiny anymore. But we have had some changes, and I
Speaker 2: feel like the time of this episode is good because
Speaker 2: it's taken us a little while to settle into some
Speaker 2: of those changes. And I'm not sure I would be
Speaker 2: as calm if we had done this episode just a
Speaker 2: week or two in, because there were just some things
Speaker 2: I feel like we had to practice. But to summarize,
Speaker 2: the biggest changes have been that we have two different schools,
Speaker 2: which mean an earlier time to leave the house to
Speaker 2: drop off the kids. This is not something our nanny
Speaker 2: generally does for us, because she stays late so we
Speaker 2: are my husband and I the ones kind of in
Speaker 2: charge of drop off, and so beginning that process more
Speaker 2: like seven twenty five versus the seven forty five seven
Speaker 2: fifty we were used to actually kind of made a difference.
Speaker 1: So I'll talk about that.
Speaker 2: We've also had a lot later activities and more late
Speaker 2: night activities. I think there's a kid with something until
Speaker 2: eight forty five basically every night at the week, except
Speaker 2: for Monday, when it's the latest is seven. So I
Speaker 2: mean that's really different from what we'd experienced when the
Speaker 2: kids were younger. And then we've also, I think just
Speaker 2: had to kind of relate it to that deal with
Speaker 2: a bit of a later bedtime. So just going through
Speaker 2: each of those the earlier leaving has been okay in
Speaker 2: that Actually, I would say the themes that there's been more
Speaker 2: dividing and conquering than there ever was before. My husband
Speaker 2: and I realized that actually if we each did one
Speaker 2: drop off instead of one person being like a bus
Speaker 2: and doing both, then that means we could leave closer
Speaker 2: to the more previous typical time of around seven forty five.
Speaker 2: And so we've created a schedule where some days I
Speaker 2: take everyone, some days he takes everyone, and then most
Speaker 2: of the other days we actually split them up, and
Speaker 2: this has provided enough variety that it's kind of nice
Speaker 2: because like then you get the one on one time
Speaker 2: and some of the car rides with different groups of kids,
Speaker 2: and then sometimes you're totally off, like I'm totally off
Speaker 2: on Thursdays and he's totally off on Tuesdays, and I
Speaker 2: just feel like we've gotten a nice balance there. So
Speaker 2: it took some configuring and experimentation, but that's been good.
Speaker 2: The late night activities has been very much helped by carpools,
Speaker 2: which are kind of new to us. But I was
Speaker 2: aggressive in seeking out carpool constituents for soccer in particular
Speaker 2: because it does go quite late, and we were so
Speaker 2: lucky to find two other families who live very close
Speaker 2: by and conveniently. Soccer is three nights per week, so
Speaker 2: we each now own a night, which means that's two
Speaker 2: nights we don't own. Our nanny often helps with us,
Speaker 2: so I mean selfishly, I actually don't do a lot
Speaker 2: of soccer driving at all during the week at all.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to watch games, but super excited not to
Speaker 2: really be involved in the driving for practices and it's
Speaker 2: been great. And then finally, my fear was that with
Speaker 2: kids getting finished with stuff at eight forty five, that
Speaker 2: we'd be going to bed at like ten thirty because
Speaker 2: there'd be this protracted wine down. But we've kind of
Speaker 2: gotten it, like, Okay, if Josh is picking up from gymnastics,
Speaker 2: I'm heating up her dinner like while he's driving, so
Speaker 2: that the second she gets home, I'm placing it in
Speaker 2: front of her. She knows to just go ahead and
Speaker 2: shower and we will just go to bed. And we've
Speaker 2: gotten to the point where I think there was one
Speaker 2: night that we did the driving like our nanny had
Speaker 2: gone and we were all in bed by nine thirty
Speaker 2: despite an eight forty five pickup, my husband and my
Speaker 2: so included. So yeah, I feel like that took some practice,
Speaker 2: but it is working better than I thought. I've talked
Speaker 2: a lot, but yeah, I thought I would have to
Speaker 2: alter my morning running routine more than I have, but
Speaker 2: it's actually been okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the days are long, but you've crammed it
Speaker 1: all in so for now. I like that the transition
Speaker 1: is so fast from like eight forty five pickup to
Speaker 1: nine thirty bed That is very impressive. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know that I would wind down quite that fast, but
Speaker 1: I guess I don't wake up quite as early in
Speaker 1: the morning, although I did this morning. For unknown reasons,
Speaker 1: I've been popping up randomly some mornings at like five am,
Speaker 1: which is a whole different can of worms. But I
Speaker 1: do have productive mornings on those days when I am
Speaker 1: up at five am. So yeah, we've shifted some things
Speaker 1: to as longtime listeners know, our school district decided to
Speaker 1: adopt new start times this year in response to plenty
Speaker 1: of research finding that adolescence just don't do well in
Speaker 1: early mornings, and so you can have better at ten
Speaker 1: and then it's better behavior, better graduation rates, all this
Speaker 1: stuff if you start high school later. So our high
Speaker 1: school now starts at eight thirty versus seven thirty, and
Speaker 1: so that's been a pretty major change because we have
Speaker 1: two children in high school. To accommodate that. Of course,
Speaker 1: the middle school moved fifteen minutes earlier, which is causes
Speaker 1: issues because middle schoolers are adolescents as well, so that's
Speaker 1: not a huge win. But the bigger issue is that
Speaker 1: in order to have the same number of buses running,
Speaker 1: because we didn't magically get more buses or bus drivers.
Speaker 1: In the course of this timing change, the middle school
Speaker 1: bus has actually come quite early in order to get
Speaker 1: the kids dropped off by about seven forty five seven
Speaker 1: fifty so they can then start the high school run.
Speaker 1: And so Ruth's time was pretty early. She has taken
Speaker 1: the bus once and it's the same driver in the
Speaker 1: morning in the afternoon, so she can give him a
Speaker 1: heads up if she will be taking it in the morning,
Speaker 1: so he knows to look for her and stop. Mornings
Speaker 1: we've been driving her, and with driving, we usually don't
Speaker 1: have to leave till seven thirty seven thirty five, and
Speaker 1: so she can wake up at seven, which means nobody
Speaker 1: really needs to be up before seven am in the morning,
Speaker 1: which is great. Like I said, I'm off and up
Speaker 1: before then, but that gives me a little quiet time
Speaker 1: in the morning. I've been working, I've been running whatever else.
Speaker 1: So she gets up, the high school boys get up
Speaker 1: around seven thirty. They drive together most mornings, and then
Speaker 1: the little boys start school at nine and nine ten, respectively,
Speaker 1: although the nine to ten gets dropped off before the
Speaker 1: nine because the nine ten is the elementary school and
Speaker 1: they push back on tartis in a way that the
Speaker 1: preschool does not, so it's it is a clear ranking
Speaker 1: of the hierarchy of who it matters if you are late,
Speaker 1: So we definitely drop the elementary school kit off first.
Speaker 1: With all this, I did not want my work mornings
Speaker 1: to start at nine thirty, which is what they would
Speaker 1: need to start at if I were responsible every morning
Speaker 1: for getting the little kids to the elementary school in preschool.
Speaker 1: So we actually have our nanny coming even earlier now,
Speaker 1: so she comes three mornings a week at seven thirty.
Speaker 1: I basically say hello, say goodbye to Ruth, say goodbye
Speaker 1: to the boys who can get themselves out the door,
Speaker 1: the big boys, and then I go to my office
Speaker 1: and I am to be working by seven forty. And
Speaker 1: it's great, Like I love all I can accomplish. When
Speaker 1: I have started at seven p forty, I wind up
Speaker 1: doing the little kid getting ready two of the mornings
Speaker 1: a week. One morning I tend not to be the
Speaker 1: one driving, and then one morning I am driving, So
Speaker 1: I still, you know, I get the mix of all
Speaker 1: of it. But three mornings a week, I'm starting early,
Speaker 1: unless something goes wrong like it did this morning when
Speaker 1: the high school buses were running late, and Jasper has
Speaker 1: a free period every fourth day his first hour, so
Speaker 1: he doesn't get up to drive Sam. So Sam was
Speaker 1: taking the bus, and then the buses were late, so
Speaker 1: our nanny wind up driving Sam, and so I was
Speaker 1: getting the little kids ready this morning. But when things
Speaker 1: are going as they should, I.
Speaker 2: Kind of impressed that you don't have to go to
Speaker 2: your free period, like you could just roll in later,
Speaker 2: that senior privilege.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, well, if it's first or last of
Speaker 1: the day, obviously, you know, if it's like the third period,
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to just like leave for an hour
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day. I guess the rule is,
Speaker 1: but if it's the first or the last, then you
Speaker 1: can leave or come late as needed.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the mornings. The other big shift. We
Speaker 1: shifted the evenings too. I decided in Room No Devices
Speaker 1: time is eight thirty. It is no longer nine, even
Speaker 1: though people don't have to get up as early. I
Speaker 1: just it was always running late when we started at nine.
Speaker 1: People need that time for reading, for homework, for all
Speaker 1: sorts of things. If we're bathing the little boys, like,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't want to go up before nine, because like
Speaker 1: they could have had their devices till nine and you know,
Speaker 1: so it's like by starting at eight thirty at least
Speaker 1: that can happen before endlessly late amounts of time.
Speaker 2: And you have an exception for homework correct.
Speaker 1: Oh for device, well, they can keep their school laptops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so if they're doing homework, that's fine. And I gotta
Speaker 1: say I am not militant with the seventeen year old,
Speaker 1: partly because he's kind of responsible for his own stuff,
Speaker 1: but it makes me gives it to me usually.
Speaker 2: But I mean, he's going to be on his own
Speaker 2: next year, so having some kind of like gradation actually
Speaker 2: makes sense versus it being like mom is like entirely
Speaker 2: in charge of you and then free for all. So
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's probably more strategic than you think.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I mean they use it as their
Speaker 1: homework time, right and a lot of their stuff is
Speaker 1: on their laptops now, so you know they need to
Speaker 1: be on schoology so that that tends to be when
Speaker 1: those happened. That was another reason to move it earlier,
Speaker 1: as I wanted to make sure I could protect enough
Speaker 1: times for the older boys when they sort of knew
Speaker 1: this was the time that they needed to be focusing
Speaker 1: on work. So yeah, it's what's happening now? Love it all? Right, Well,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick ad break and then we'll be
Speaker 1: back talking about whining. Well, we are back. We opened
Speaker 1: with a discussion of new school year routines, what times
Speaker 1: things are happening, how we have shifted things around. So fortunately,
Speaker 1: there actually hasn't been that much whining about our new routines.
Speaker 1: I worried there might be a little bit about the
Speaker 1: earlier in your room time, but there hasn't been that much,
Speaker 1: which has been good. I'm glad to hear it. But
Speaker 1: you know, whining in general does happen, and we've had
Speaker 1: some discussions with listeners and you know, peopeople who talk
Speaker 1: about how it can kind of ruin something that would
Speaker 1: otherwise be reasonably fun and generally why people whine. And
Speaker 1: adults do this too, by the way, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: definitely the sort of complaining tone that adults go into.
Speaker 1: It's when you are unhappy about something but don't feel
Speaker 1: you have the power to change it on your own,
Speaker 1: so you tend to whine, which is more of a
Speaker 1: submissive voice to the person that you believe could change it,
Speaker 1: so it is understandable. It is a very rational way
Speaker 1: of reacting to a situation. It is, of course, also
Speaker 1: incredibly annoying. Is also annoying if it is something the
Speaker 1: person has agreed to, let's say, but in the moment
Speaker 1: feels like they do not wish to do it and
Speaker 1: you are haranguing them to get out the door. I'm
Speaker 1: sure this never happens in your family, Sarah, Never.
Speaker 2: No. I feel like everyone in my family has a
Speaker 2: different style of whining, including myself. And you know, I
Speaker 2: was just thinking, whinning is kind of like a little
Speaker 2: bit passive aggressive sometimes, especially if you know the situation
Speaker 2: is not going to change. But it's like, well, but
Speaker 2: I can make it annoying for everyone so they can
Speaker 2: hear all about it and it will feel like a
Speaker 2: little bit good maybe, and yet accomplish nothing.
Speaker 1: So whining is rough.
Speaker 2: And yet there's like little kid whining. There's like the
Speaker 2: tired whining. There's just like the incessant I'm not listening
Speaker 2: to your no kind of a whining.
Speaker 1: I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like we're all whining professionals around here, and I
Speaker 2: have to say I definitely whine sometimes when I make
Speaker 2: a concerted effort not to whine. I'm usually pleasantly surprised
Speaker 2: that the lack of whining tends to improve things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's we all do it, But yeah, it doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily strike the person who is in charge in the
Speaker 1: situation or who has the veto power or whatever that
Speaker 1: they might wish to amate the whining. So I guess
Speaker 1: it would just must be a reflex sort of thing
Speaker 1: to do, because yeah, kids do it sort of automatically.
Speaker 1: It's not like they learned to whine.
Speaker 2: Well, especially maybe if it works a little bit.
Speaker 1: Works intermittently, it's like the hamster hitting Yeah. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's important to acknowledge that some
Speaker 1: whining is inevitable, and that doesn't necessarily mean that anything
Speaker 1: has to change. You can sort of decide that, okay,
Speaker 1: into a little life, into life, a little whining must
Speaker 1: inevitably fall, and with that as the mindset, that can
Speaker 1: help to kind of stay grounded about the whole thing. Like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you should never do anything ever. Again,
Speaker 1: that said, very few things are fun for the whole
Speaker 1: family for the whole time. So you can be out
Speaker 1: at an amusement park, which presumably you were doing for
Speaker 1: your own edification, like you are there for your children.
Speaker 1: Except at some point in this amazing day of going
Speaker 1: to this amusement park, they're gonna be hot, they're gonna
Speaker 1: be tired, they're gonna be waiting in line for a
Speaker 1: ride that their sister wanted to go on but was
Speaker 1: not in their top three. And that's when the whinning happens.
Speaker 1: And so you can just get so mad that people
Speaker 1: are whining about this expensive, time consuming trip to the
Speaker 1: amusement park that you would not have been doing on
Speaker 1: your own, or you can sort of say, well, there
Speaker 1: will be whining today, but it's still going to overall
Speaker 1: be a good day. We are aiming for a few
Speaker 1: enjoyable moments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like not catastrophizing it because it's not Instagram reel
Speaker 2: every second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's life is Instagram reel every second, including people
Speaker 1: who post much of their lives on Instagram. They edit
Speaker 1: out the parts that are not Instagram were they? So Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're just with any te any activity any day,
Speaker 1: really you're aiming for a few enjoyable moments. And if
Speaker 1: you keep that as your goal, then you can let
Speaker 1: it roll off your back a little bit more than
Speaker 1: you might. That said, obviously, if you can involve people
Speaker 1: in decisions, that might be helpful, so asking kids what
Speaker 1: they would like to do. Obviously, there's not going to
Speaker 1: be universal consensus and people can't get everything they want,
Speaker 1: but when you give people some degree of choice, it
Speaker 1: can be helpful. I also generally let children who are
Speaker 1: old enough to stay home by themselves opt out of
Speaker 1: things if it is not an important family value, as in, yes,
Speaker 1: if we've decided to go visit relatives, you need to
Speaker 1: do that, or yes, if we've decided to go to church,
Speaker 1: let's say you're going to need to do that, but
Speaker 1: you don't have to go apple picking like that has
Speaker 1: I think it might be fun, but in general you
Speaker 1: don't have to do it, not universally. We had some
Speaker 1: major whining before a rafting trip because my older two
Speaker 1: boys had opted out. Desper did not want to go.
Speaker 1: Sam had a cross country meet so he had a reason.
Speaker 1: So then Jasper volunteered to go pick him up. You know, okay, clever, yeah, clever.
Speaker 1: But then that meant I could go on the trip,
Speaker 1: which is fine. I was happy to go, but then
Speaker 1: you know, we're on a raft we need four people
Speaker 1: to row, and I couldn't have Henry row. Ruth didn't
Speaker 1: want to go, so she was sort of unhappy about it,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't not let her go because then we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to pick somebody up off the street to
Speaker 1: row for us.
Speaker 2: Henry is pretty strong. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, our four year olds row in the boat through rapids.
Speaker 1: That would have been a maybe maybe he could have
Speaker 1: I don't know. He kind of held his he wanted
Speaker 1: or but he kind of held it the side where
Speaker 1: it kept hitting Michael's or helpful.
Speaker 2: I feel like the corollary of like leaving an older
Speaker 2: kid home is also bringing a friend for them, because
Speaker 2: I have it's like kind of magical that like two
Speaker 2: twelve year olds actually wine half as much as one
Speaker 2: twelve year old. I don't know that math is like backwards,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I've seen it in action.
Speaker 1: If I'd thought about that, I have no time that
Speaker 1: would have been because then we would have had even
Speaker 1: an extra war ar you know, if I had somebody
Speaker 1: else who could have rowed that stupid boat through the rapids.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, that would have been a smart thing
Speaker 1: to do. But you got to choose your battles. I
Speaker 1: am certainly not above bribery, you know, like, Okay, we're
Speaker 1: doing this, and I know we'll be getting home close
Speaker 1: to time, let's say on Sunday night, when you would
Speaker 1: have to put your screens way, so maybe you get
Speaker 1: them for an extra thirty minutes, or we do a
Speaker 1: wah wah stop on the way home. Definitely, we stop
Speaker 1: at Starbucks after church every week, which is not a
Speaker 1: great broad because my kids seem to get Starbucks a lot,
Speaker 1: but there was a period of time in my life
Speaker 1: where we were not even allowed to go to any
Speaker 1: commercial establishment on Sunday. So this seems like a big
Speaker 1: give on my part. Not in my family, my family
Speaker 1: of origin. But yeah, it's yeah, you know, you bribe
Speaker 1: where you can.
Speaker 2: I will say I frequent Starbucks a lot, and I
Speaker 2: don't really get tired of that as a bribe to myself,
Speaker 2: so I can see why it would still work with
Speaker 2: your children.
Speaker 1: Do you have any bribes of this variety? I don't
Speaker 1: know what the Florida equivalent of we have rita is
Speaker 1: up here, so that's somewhere where wah wah.
Speaker 2: I mean we yeah, ice cream always work, dairy queen, etc.
Speaker 2: But I have to say like for hiking, just having
Speaker 2: really good snacks, like snacks outside of what we would
Speaker 2: normally have, like yes, this is a time for that
Speaker 2: bag of candy, or like whatever your dreams are made
Speaker 2: of that you're gonna stop and eat after a mile
Speaker 2: or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, No, I think the snack thing is
Speaker 1: important for long plane rides too. See people dole out
Speaker 1: a new snack every ninety minutes on a plane. If
Speaker 1: it's exciting enough, that can get you through quite a while,
Speaker 1: although again inevitably whining. I believe the phrase from a
Speaker 1: kJ deal Antonia, who has been on this podcast before.
Speaker 1: She wrote a book called How to Be a Happier Parent.
Speaker 1: I'm probably quoting this wrong because I didn't look it
Speaker 1: up before I did these notes, but was that you
Speaker 1: don't have to go down there, so that if your
Speaker 1: kids are in a negative emotional state, you don't actually
Speaker 1: have to match them. You are allowed to enjoy yourself
Speaker 1: even if the people around you do not seem to
Speaker 1: be actively enjoying themselves and are letting you know about that.
Speaker 1: That your emotional state is within your purview and you
Speaker 1: do not have to give that over to someone else.
Speaker 2: So interestingly, I had a very similar free well you
Speaker 2: reminded me of it. But Erica Ladd from Girl next
Speaker 2: Door podcast once said, my energy is my own. That
Speaker 2: was where like tagline for like the phase of parenting
Speaker 2: she was in, and that was exactly it, like not
Speaker 2: to get wrapped up in her kids' stuff. And I
Speaker 2: just love that. So, yeah, you don't have to go
Speaker 2: down there. And my energy is my own.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. And then one thing
Speaker 1: I do to talk myself into stuff sometimes that I'm
Speaker 1: not terribly excited about doing in the moment, I thought
Speaker 1: might have been cool in the past when I thought
Speaker 1: about it, and then in the moment it's like, oh
Speaker 1: am I going to do this. It's like if you
Speaker 1: thought it would be enjoyable, or people generally do this
Speaker 1: thing because it's fun. Pretty soon you're going to be
Speaker 1: on the other side of it, and if it's something
Speaker 1: that is generally fun, you probably will be happy that
Speaker 1: you did it. So you know, in this particular rafting trip,
Speaker 1: we did tell the kids in the morning, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to be on the other side of this
Speaker 1: in a couple hours, Like eventually it's going to be
Speaker 1: Saturday night and we will have been on the rafting trip,
Speaker 1: or we will have not. But most of the time
Speaker 1: people go on the rafting trip because it's fun, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's why people raft down rivers. It's not because
Speaker 1: they're trying to get from point A to point B,
Speaker 1: which there are much quicker ways to get from point
Speaker 1: A to point B in Jones that people think it's
Speaker 1: a fun activity, and it was. It was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun, even though it rained on us, even though
Speaker 1: it was kind of chilly, it was like sixty five
Speaker 1: degrees and rainy, and yet we still had a good time.
Speaker 1: And I could, you know, say that at the end
Speaker 1: of lie like I'm not saying we have to do
Speaker 1: this again tomorrow, but we did enjoy ourselves and like
Speaker 1: we were like proud of our family for rowing that
Speaker 1: four miles down the river and getting off the river
Speaker 1: at the right spot even with the rapids and all that.
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm not saying you have to say
Speaker 1: I told you so afterwards or anything like that, but
Speaker 1: you might narrate that things are generally fun, are like, oh, look,
Speaker 1: we're enjoying ourselves that Oh yeah, we weren't sure we
Speaker 1: wanted to do this, but oh look how good it was,
Speaker 1: or yes, this might not be your favorite ride in
Speaker 1: the universe, but in three minutes it will be over,
Speaker 1: because all rides are over within three minutes, and then
Speaker 1: you can go about your life. Love it, love it all. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: we're going to take one more quick ad break and
Speaker 1: then we will be back with a little bit of
Speaker 1: a longer Q and a thinking about childcare and early
Speaker 1: education options and how these fit together. Well, we are back.
Speaker 1: We have been talking our new school year routines, about
Speaker 1: the mornings and the evenings. We did a bit of
Speaker 1: a deep dive into whining, and now we have a question, Sarah,
Speaker 1: did you want to read this or you want me to?
Speaker 2: Or sure? I feel like you're gonna get on your soapbox.
Speaker 2: So okay, okay, I know a lot of times we
Speaker 2: abridge our stuff, but I'll read most of this because
Speaker 2: I think it's a great.
Speaker 1: I bridged it slightly in the version.
Speaker 2: I will it's already so concise and clear.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, you can read my notes, Sarah.
Speaker 2: I'm curious you're experience sending your kids to preschool for
Speaker 2: the first time. Thoughts on sending them at three verses,
Speaker 2: four half days, full days, or both. My daughter I
Speaker 2: just turned three, and my husband and I aren't sure
Speaker 2: if we should consider preschool sooner rather than later or not.
Speaker 2: She loves her current daycare and they seem to have
Speaker 2: a good preschool program, but with her going to the
Speaker 2: local public school for kindergarten, are there pros of going
Speaker 2: to the public school preschool program at three or four?
Speaker 2: How do we make this decision? Are there things we
Speaker 2: should consider? From your experience, there seem to be so
Speaker 2: many options, but not a lot of information about why
Speaker 2: we would choose one over another. Also curious if there
Speaker 2: were some things you did to prepare them when they
Speaker 2: do start preschool that ease the transition, as her daycare
Speaker 2: is all she knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I read this question, it set me
Speaker 1: off on a little tangent, which is a little bit
Speaker 1: of a soapbox here, because sometimes people think there is
Speaker 1: a difference between daycare and preschool, And so the thing is,
Speaker 1: a high quality daycare center is preschool right like they
Speaker 1: do early childhood education activities, only you get the extra
Speaker 1: wrap around care too. So I can assure you that
Speaker 1: when I sent Jasper to daycare for the first four
Speaker 1: years of his life, by the time they were about
Speaker 1: eighteen months, they were doing early childhood education curricula. They
Speaker 1: were working on holding a pencil. Eventually, by the time
Speaker 1: they were about three or so, they were learning you know,
Speaker 1: letters and numbers and colors and days of the week
Speaker 1: and months of the year or whatever else you're supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing. They were practicing making letters. By the
Speaker 1: time they could hold a pencil, they were doing early
Speaker 1: math curriculum. They were working on early literacy. Once they
Speaker 1: were you know, three and four years old, so it
Speaker 1: was preschool. The only difference was you could drop them
Speaker 1: off at eight and pick them up after five, right like,
Speaker 1: which a lot of preschools do not offer that that
Speaker 1: are only preschools. So high quality daycare is preschool with
Speaker 1: wrap around care. Now, the reason this matters is because
Speaker 1: I feel like in our cultural conversation daycare is often
Speaker 1: seen as bad. So, like, literally, there was this viral
Speaker 1: tweet a few months ago. I don't know, I was
Speaker 1: off Twitter for a while and then I got back on,
Speaker 1: and then I was sad that I got on because
Speaker 1: I see's still like this. But some young childless dude
Speaker 1: had seen like a daycare near his house, and I
Speaker 1: guess some kid on the playground looks playground looks sad,
Speaker 1: and so he thought he tweeted out daycare should be banned, okay,
Speaker 1: and some people were like liking this or whatever. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just so stupid, right, So it's like daycare is bad,
Speaker 1: where's preschool? Like preschool is good? Like maybe a kid
Speaker 1: cries on the playground there, but well, it's pre school learning.
Speaker 1: It's learning, Like if they fall on the preschool playground,
Speaker 1: it's fine. I don't know, so I struggled to get
Speaker 1: my head around this, because again, remember, high quality, center
Speaker 1: based daycare is preschool with wrap around care. But as
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, the issue is that working
Speaker 1: moms use something that is called daycare, and working moms
Speaker 1: are bad, and airgo daycare is bad, but stay at
Speaker 1: home moms use preschool, and stay at home moms are good,
Speaker 1: and therefore preschool is good. And this is literally the
Speaker 1: depth of the reasoning in this conversation.
Speaker 2: I think you're I was reflecting on this. I think
Speaker 2: you're very right, And interestingly, I feel like there's been
Speaker 2: a shift in all demographics in calling daycare preschool, even
Speaker 2: if it's absolutely a classic daycare, like we even have
Speaker 2: these daycares in the area that are awesome because they're
Speaker 2: for like medically complex kids and they're subsidized, but they
Speaker 2: also offer like medical services. And I'll hear parents calling
Speaker 2: it preschool. I'm like, great, okay, it makes them feel better.
Speaker 2: But then if you actually think about, like, well, why
Speaker 2: does that make them feel better? It's exactly what you said,
Speaker 2: because daycare is bad because it's for the parents. They're
Speaker 2: caring for the kid while you get to do your
Speaker 2: own stuff, versus preschool for the child, it's only for
Speaker 2: their Enrichmond, who cares what mom is doing? And this
Speaker 2: is like what we've talked about so many times, which
Speaker 2: is like we can't too, and maybe it can be
Speaker 2: for both of us. Maybe there could be a best
Speaker 2: of both worlds in here where my kid is actually
Speaker 2: getting engaged and taught and learning, and I'm getting to
Speaker 2: go to work, build my business, do whatever I want.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and especially I mean just as you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: because like and I would even I mean, we do
Speaker 1: what we need to do during the days. And you know,
Speaker 1: if some people obviously work as a financial necessity, So
Speaker 1: I feel really bad that people are making somebody who
Speaker 1: really truly does need to go to work for full time,
Speaker 1: Like feel bad about that that they're using childcare which
Speaker 1: is preschool, like whereas you know if it was a preschool,
Speaker 1: it'd be different. But anyway, so off the soapbox. Now
Speaker 1: to our listener, if your kid is happy at daycare,
Speaker 1: there is zero reason to switch, Okay, like zero. You
Speaker 1: are not missing something by not sending her to something
Speaker 1: that is specifically labeled as a preschool. She is getting
Speaker 1: all of that at her daycare, which you've pointed out
Speaker 1: has a preschool program, so there is nothing different that
Speaker 1: they are going to do, Like you're gonna learn the
Speaker 1: same months of the year. They don't learn different ones
Speaker 1: at preschool, Like you're gonna learn the same numbers, You're
Speaker 1: gonna certain the same fine motor grip so you can
Speaker 1: hold a pencil, Like this is all the same stuff
Speaker 1: that they are going to learn. So you do not
Speaker 1: have to switch, because again daycare is preschool with wrap
Speaker 1: around care. Now, in this listener scenario, the reasons that
Speaker 1: she could switch partly if it is a public preschool option,
Speaker 1: it might be free, Like I presume it is free
Speaker 1: as a public school option, so she would have to
Speaker 1: run the numbers on that.
Speaker 2: Eh, yes, and no, like we have in Florida, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of public PreK programs that are actually not free.
Speaker 2: They're oh okay, they're not as expensive, maybe private, but
Speaker 2: I don't know. They're sort of incorporated into the public school.
Speaker 2: But they're extra cost. Yeah they are extra cost. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well so then obviously that changes it too.
Speaker 1: Like then again, there's not really a whole lot of
Speaker 1: reason to pull her out to send her to that,
Speaker 1: because the problem is you would have to then recreate
Speaker 1: the wrap around care that you are currently getting if
Speaker 1: you put her in a preschool program. Now, maybe the
Speaker 1: numbers would work, Like if it is a free program,
Speaker 1: maybe it would be significantly cheaper to hire somebody, But again,
Speaker 1: it's hard to get somebody to work a part time job,
Speaker 1: like a part time nanny who wants to come in
Speaker 1: the morning and then come again in the afternoon. Like
Speaker 1: it doesn't there's not that many people who would want
Speaker 1: to do that. So probably you and your partner would
Speaker 1: be covering one of those, right, Like you would either
Speaker 1: bring your child to preschool at nine o'clock and need
Speaker 1: to flex your work hours to start after that, or
Speaker 1: else one of you would need to end by three
Speaker 1: o'clock or whatever the time is for daycare, if you
Speaker 1: had help in the morning in order to get the
Speaker 1: same wrap around care. Now again, possibly if it is
Speaker 1: a public preschool option that maybe you have enlightened legislators
Speaker 1: in your area who have created wrap around care for
Speaker 1: the preschool, in which case great, then maybe you could
Speaker 1: approximate the hours you're getting in the daycare. And if
Speaker 1: you wanted to switch in order to have that same
Speaker 1: social group of kids who would be going to that
Speaker 1: elementary school over the next few years, then that might
Speaker 1: make sense. But you need to make sure that you're
Speaker 1: getting the hours that you need to to work, and
Speaker 1: a preschool might not automatically do that. They'd get you
Speaker 1: somewhat of the way there, but they wouldn't get you
Speaker 1: all of the way there, and so if you don't
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of flexibility, you would need to
Speaker 1: figure that out.
Speaker 2: No, that makes sense. Yeah, I wonder if part of
Speaker 2: it was the social peace. And then she did ask
Speaker 2: about tips for adjusting to the new environment, and I mean,
Speaker 2: it's probably if they're used to going to daycare, my
Speaker 2: guess is that they're gonna be able to adjust. Okay, Obviously,
Speaker 2: any new situation is going to be tough for any
Speaker 2: new kid, but probably easier for a kid who's already
Speaker 2: been in daycare versus someone who's been home.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, for what it's worth. I mean, we've had
Speaker 1: a full time nanny the whole time, So we wound
Speaker 1: up doing preschool starting at about age three for the
Speaker 1: other kids, you know, after we left New York, and
Speaker 1: we're no longer using a daycare option. Henry, for instance,
Speaker 1: went three days from nine to twelve his first year
Speaker 1: of preschool, then the next year he went five days
Speaker 1: nine to twelve, and now he is doing five days
Speaker 1: nine to three as he is four point seventy five.
Speaker 1: He'll be turning five in a few months, so you know,
Speaker 1: that's sort of the ramp up that we did with it.
Speaker 1: But obviously three hours, five mornings a week is not
Speaker 1: going to cover your work hours, so you'd need other
Speaker 1: care beyond that if you're going to use that option.
Speaker 1: All right, love the week. Well, so mine is opening
Speaker 1: the window. I have one window in my office that
Speaker 1: has this roll screen thing. It's kind of cool, like
Speaker 1: you open the window and the screen automatically appears, but
Speaker 1: you don't see the screen. When you're just looking out
Speaker 1: the window, it's like in the well of the sill,
Speaker 1: so you push it up and then there's a screen.
Speaker 1: And so it's nice because I can open it. At
Speaker 1: this time of year September October, usually during the day
Speaker 1: the weather is quite nice. Autumn breeze here, the trees here,
Speaker 1: the birds makes me feel like I'm bringing the outside in.
Speaker 1: So that's a benefit. And I don't do it obviously
Speaker 1: in July because it's too hot, and I don't do
Speaker 1: it in January because it's too cold. But there are
Speaker 1: some months of the year where it makes sense to
Speaker 1: do so I need to remind myself to do it well.
Speaker 2: I will also go weather related, although we are not
Speaker 2: opening our windows just yet.
Speaker 1: Maybe ever. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2: Just noticing tiny incremental improvements in the weather is making
Speaker 2: me happy right now. Maybe in the month of October,
Speaker 2: which is just beginning today as this airs, maybe we'll
Speaker 2: get our first morning under seventy. Probably not, honestly, I
Speaker 2: think that's more of a November thing. But even if
Speaker 2: we start to approach the low seventies on a regular
Speaker 2: basis at six am, I will be thrilled. So going
Speaker 2: in the right direction.
Speaker 1: Yay, yay, heading into the good time of year in Florida,
Speaker 1: the time that everybody else then wants to go to Florida.
Speaker 1: So there's a reason people are heading there every winter.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.
Speaker 1: It's been a mix of an episode. We discussed our
Speaker 1: new morning and evening routines with the school year. We
Speaker 1: talked about whining. We went into the difference or more importantly,
Speaker 1: the lack thereof, between daycare and preschool except in terms
Speaker 1: of total hours offered. Which daycare attends to have the
Speaker 1: advantage on that one. But anyway, a lot of different topics.
Speaker 1: As always, we love to hear from you guys. If
Speaker 1: you have ideas for future episodes, things you'd like to
Speaker 1: us to talk about, questions you might have, let us know.
Speaker 1: You can always reach me at lo Ura at Laura
Speaker 1: vandercam dot com. We will be back next week with
Speaker 1: more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life
Speaker 1: work together.