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Speaker 1: I know that you love grunt stories just as much

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Speaker 1: as I do. Today we've got Griff former combat marine

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Speaker 1: and all round badass on the David Rutherford Show. All right, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to my Grunt series. And again this is

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Speaker 1: as a result of my good friend Clay out there,

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Speaker 1: my Green Beret brother, who was a former marine first,

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Speaker 1: who put the idea in my head that, you know

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Speaker 1: what Special Operations, that we're not as good as badass

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Speaker 1: as we think we are because a lot of grunts

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Speaker 1: out of there did just as much, in many cases

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Speaker 1: more Felujah Ramadi, the Marja push, and I think the

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Speaker 1: reality is that we've had way too much of a

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Speaker 1: spotlight on us. The drama obviously has gotten absolutely at

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Speaker 1: a crescendo with this past.

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Speaker 2: Weekend and.

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Speaker 1: Congressman Dan Crenshaw trying to sue my best friend Sean Ryan,

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Speaker 1: which is just all insanity.

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Speaker 2: But again that's not why we're here.

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Speaker 1: We're here to really get into the unbelievable stories and

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Speaker 1: histories of the grunts that were the backbone of the

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Speaker 1: g WATT. I am incredibly honored to welcome Robin Griff

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Speaker 1: Griffins to the show today. Griff Brother, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for reaching out. I've been stoked for this for

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Speaker 1: weeks as we've been trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: get you on.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate the time, David. I'm looking forward to having

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Speaker 3: a good conversation with you and sharing some grunt stories.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, all right, before we get into the grunt stories,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the most obvious thing that we got to

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Speaker 1: talk about out is when was the earliest influence that

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Speaker 1: the Marine Corps or the army or like, how old

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Speaker 1: were you?

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Speaker 2: What movie?

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Speaker 1: And sorry about my voice. I've been a little underweather

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Speaker 1: last few days.

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Speaker 2: But what was that moment? Like for me?

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Speaker 1: You know, it was watching The Green Berets with John

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Speaker 1: Wayne when I was a kid, and I saw that

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Speaker 1: and I was just like my mind exploded as to

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Speaker 1: what was out there and the allure of what it

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Speaker 1: meant to serve and to be a member of the

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Speaker 1: United States military.

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Speaker 2: So what was that moment for you?

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Speaker 3: Not to like beat around the bush, But it was

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Speaker 3: nine to eleven for me when I decided I wanted

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Speaker 3: to be a marine. I had heard of the Marine Corps.

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Speaker 3: My father was a veteran of the Airborne you know,

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Speaker 3: one hundred and first nineteen sixty, sixty one and sixty two,

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Speaker 3: very patriotic man. And I was kind of a punk

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Speaker 3: kid who didn't want any thing to do with what

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Speaker 3: his father had done. I had seen movies Full Metal

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Speaker 3: Jacket really had my attention as a teenager. So I

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Speaker 3: knew who the Marines were, and I knew how to

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Speaker 3: upset my father enough to be like, oh, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to join the Marines. And so there was some of the.

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Speaker 2: There involved, but I'll be blunt.

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Speaker 3: When nine to eleven happened, I had a patriotic h

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Speaker 3: just emotion come over me, and I thought someone's got

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Speaker 3: to do something. And then I realized, wait, my dad

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Speaker 3: was patriotic and join the army. My grandfather was in

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Speaker 3: the Navy, and so I was I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna do what I always you know, kind of

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Speaker 3: told my dad I was gonna do. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: join the Marine Corps, and he just wished me good luck.

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Speaker 3: My mom cried, and that was it.

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Speaker 2: That's all he said was good luck, son, proud of you.

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Speaker 3: He didn't say he was proud yet, he said good luck.

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Speaker 3: If you make it, we'll see wow. And so when

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Speaker 3: I came back and I got off the plane from

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Speaker 3: boot camp. He definitely conferred his pride on me, and

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Speaker 3: he never he never took it back after that moment

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Speaker 3: in time. Once I became a Marine, he was proud.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: Before we get to you going to Marine Corps boot camp,

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Speaker 1: All right, grev, let's talk about Marine Corps boot camp.

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Speaker 1: So tell me the sequence of nine to eleven happens.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just like so many of y'all nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven babies, right right, I'd been in since ninety five

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Speaker 1: and so like I was already there. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: the overwhelming response was that sense of you know, not

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Speaker 1: only oh, you're gonna attack us. Well, guess what America's

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Speaker 1: best are gonna Roger up? How long before the moment

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Speaker 1: you decided to the moment that you were at boot

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Speaker 1: camp and then until.

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Speaker 2: You got home. What was the timeframe of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I went to boot camp December of two thousand

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Speaker 3: and one. Oho, okay, down in San Diego. I went

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Speaker 3: to the recruiting station like a day or two after

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Speaker 3: nine eleven, and I had talked with the recruiter there.

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Speaker 3: I had graduated high school earlier that year that summer,

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Speaker 3: and I had kind of just kind of played around

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Speaker 3: with it more and less just to kind of get

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Speaker 3: my dad off my ass, you know. And so when

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Speaker 3: I went down to the recruiter, he was kind of shocked, like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I didn't expect to see you down here. And I said,

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Speaker 3: you see what happened. He's like, yeah, there's a line

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Speaker 3: out the door. You're gonna have to go get in

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Speaker 3: the back of it. And I did, and I waited

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Speaker 3: my turn, and I signed my papers. He said, we're

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Speaker 3: not going to send you off immediately. Well, here's the

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Speaker 3: delayed entry program. You're going to do two months in

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Speaker 3: that and then you're going to go to boot camp.

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Speaker 3: And that's how I became a marine.

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Speaker 1: What was the delayed entry program, like did you have

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Speaker 1: to go meet with a motivator or a guy to

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Speaker 1: get you ready or what was that like?

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Speaker 3: Mostly just the recruiters getting us together and either doing

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Speaker 3: like a hip pocket class about like hey, this is

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Speaker 3: how the Marines jargon works.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is what you're gonna hear in boot camp.

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Speaker 3: I was a bit overweight and so they were like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you need to start dieting now, you need to start

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Speaker 3: running now, and you start working on pull ups now,

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Speaker 3: stuff like that. It was a really good experience for me.

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Speaker 3: I actually met one of my lifelong friends, one of

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Speaker 3: my best friends I served with in went to Iraq

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Speaker 3: with my recruiter. Was good because we met each other

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Speaker 3: in that delayed entry program and he said, I can't

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Speaker 3: make you into a Buddy Pro program right now because

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Speaker 3: I don't have the spot, but I'll do my best

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Speaker 3: to get you guys in the same unit.

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Speaker 2: And he did do that. So ooh, that's awesome. That's

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Speaker 2: really cool.

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Speaker 1: So as as uh, you take your ads VAB and

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Speaker 1: in the Marine Corps, you don't get a signed where

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Speaker 1: you're going and tell the end of.

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Speaker 2: Boot camp right? Uh no?

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Speaker 3: You? So I was a three hundred option and so

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Speaker 3: it was infantry for sure. Yeah, some sometimes they can

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Speaker 3: assign you like I don't. I think it's like a

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Speaker 3: generic MS, you know, and then you get on specific

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Speaker 3: after you after you do do boot camp and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. I did take the asthad. It wasn't a

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Speaker 3: killer score, but it wasn't it wasn't a terrible score,

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Speaker 3: like all the jobs were most most of the jobs

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Speaker 3: were opened up to me, except something that might be

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Speaker 3: like super high speed or something like that, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, nuclear whatever, Yeah, crazy nuclear harrier pilot, none of that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, nine to eleven had motivated

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Speaker 3: me to go and fight, and so I said, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to join the infantry. Which it didn't make

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Speaker 3: my dad very proud when I when I told him that.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: And so all right, in preparation for leaving, did you go?

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Speaker 1: You went to boot camp in San Diego, right, yep.

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Speaker 1: Now a lot of people say, oh, boot camp is

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Speaker 1: just there's only one real marine boot camp, it's Paris

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Speaker 1: Island and all that. But I know people who went

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Speaker 1: to MCRD out there and got equally kicked in the

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Speaker 1: nuts as as.

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Speaker 2: All the people so talk about a little bit.

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Speaker 1: What that was like go through boot camp so close

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Speaker 1: to nine to eleven when you started, and because operations,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think, uh, you know, ground

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Speaker 1: branch and which was the jawbreaker they were in probably

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Speaker 1: I want to say it was like September thirtieth or something.

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Speaker 1: They were starting ent er you know, Triple Nickel, sf ODA,

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Speaker 1: Triple Nickel with you know, they had done the they

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Speaker 1: were moving in or five five eight two were moving

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Speaker 1: in on horseback. You know, Seal Team six was working

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Speaker 1: out a quetta down low. So like combat's beginning as

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Speaker 1: you're in boot camp. Was was the message pretty clear,

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Speaker 1: like hey, you're you're going to combat. This is what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. What was that attitude like during that time?

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Speaker 3: It wasn't guaranteed that you'd go to combat. Like no

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Speaker 3: one was saying, hey, we're definitely going to send you

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Speaker 3: to war. I think the drone structors had thought maybe

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Speaker 3: they were going to miss out, even that they thought

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Speaker 3: it was gonna end uh faster than it happened. And

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Speaker 3: but there was intensity there that you could tell was

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Speaker 3: definitely and they said, hey, you might be going to combat.

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Speaker 3: You yours a really good possibility you will be where

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Speaker 3: I could see, like in a previous classes, maybe those

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Speaker 3: dun same drones structures were just a little less intense

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Speaker 3: on that part, yeah, you know. And and then with

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Speaker 3: with the group of recruits that I was with in

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Speaker 3: as well, we had guys who were in on age waivers.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: I was in boot camp with a marine from Tucson, Arizona,

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Speaker 3: who was like thirty five years old.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so because because nine to eleven, it's just nine

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Speaker 3: to eleven, and guys decided to do the right thing

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Speaker 3: and chose to serve. And so like we had guys

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Speaker 3: like me who just recently graduated high school and didn't know,

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Speaker 3: you know nothing, and then there were guys who had

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Speaker 3: given up full careers and businesses and and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: and they were in for the fight as well. And

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Speaker 3: so it was it was different in that regard as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so when did you finish boot camp?

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Speaker 1: And then what happened after that?

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Speaker 2: Give me the next few months where you went, where

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Speaker 2: you got a sign and what training you start getting into.

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Speaker 3: So I graduated boot camp February two thousand and two.

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Speaker 3: My mom took pictures of the wrong recruit because I

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Speaker 3: had lost so much weight in fifteen weeks down there.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she took pictures of the two recruits down in formation,

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Speaker 3: which I always thought was funny. And then I did

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Speaker 3: come home to Salt Lake City, Utah for a couple

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Speaker 3: of days on leave and got to spend some time

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Speaker 3: with my family, and my dad was just emaciated, matiated

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Speaker 3: with pride, you know. He was a very patriotic man

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Speaker 3: and he was my mom was still pretty heartbroken. And

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Speaker 3: then I went to School of Infantry West down in

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Speaker 3: Camp Pendleton and I learned to become a mortarman down there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then then after that I got stationed in Camp

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Speaker 3: La June with the Second Marines, first Italian second Regiment.

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Speaker 2: And what time did you get to Camp La June?

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Speaker 3: Oh, that was gonna be probably uh, I want to

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Speaker 3: say April, maybe May of two thousand and two, so

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Speaker 3: not much longer after maybe two or three months after

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Speaker 3: graduating boot camp. SI is kind of a blur, you know.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of my first time I was outside my parents'

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Speaker 3: house for real, and like I'm didn't have a drill

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Speaker 3: instructor either.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you got to do your own laundry, cook

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Speaker 1: your own food. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Man, released on Liberty and I'm like, what do we

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Speaker 3: do now?

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Speaker 2: And they're like, yeah, whatever you want. I like, get

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Speaker 2: out of my face. Yeah, Can I go to Walmart?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do whatever you want. Yeah. That's funny, man.

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Speaker 1: You get you get so brainwashed, right, You're so ready

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Speaker 1: for someone to say all right, go sit down, go

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Speaker 1: over there, go to admin. Do you know, you just

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Speaker 1: get indoctrinated into it and now now like oh wow,

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Speaker 1: I can think for myself and I can have my

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Speaker 1: own life outside.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It is wild to think back on that.

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Speaker 3: I had all four of my wisdom teeth pulled in

264
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Speaker 3: boot camp, and I do all the rest of the

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Speaker 3: like recruits had went back to the squad bay without

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Speaker 3: me because I was there longer, and I was kind

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Speaker 3: of like what do I do? You know, and they're like,

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Speaker 3: you go back to your platoon now, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: by myself, somebody to walk with, Mike, and so like yeah,

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Speaker 3: I remember walking across h MCRD by myself like please

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Speaker 3: don't be seen, Please don't be seen, Like get to

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Speaker 3: the squad bait, Get.

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Speaker 2: To the squad bait. It all worked out, you know.

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Speaker 2: So Yeah, tell me this.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me this, because this I'm I'm I'm one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent believer that that the Marine Corps boot camp

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Speaker 1: is by far the best short term psychological indoctrination process

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Speaker 1: there exists on the planet. Agree, And they're just the system.

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Speaker 1: The way they do it.

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Speaker 2: Is so functional.

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Speaker 1: Now, functional is not exquisite, right, it's so it's so professional,

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Speaker 1: it's so dialed in. What do you think about the system,

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Speaker 1: the training, the regiment. Why does that have such a

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Speaker 1: powerful impact on both the individual, the young man who's

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Speaker 1: becoming a man, and then also the beginning of building

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Speaker 1: those bonds that really which is really indicative of what

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Speaker 1: the Marine Corps is, right, The Marine Corps is a

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Speaker 1: bonded group of men that are the devil.

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Speaker 2: Dogs of warfare.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so how does that begin to take place

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Speaker 1: in your opinion in boot camp?

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Speaker 2: In my opinion, it's about the choice. You.

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Speaker 3: You chose to be there, and they are constantly reminding

294
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Speaker 3: you that, yeah, this sucks, or you chose to be

295
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Speaker 3: here and you can choose.

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Speaker 2: To leave, like the.

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Speaker 3: That that out is always there and you can always

298
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Speaker 3: choose to leave. You don't have to be here, you

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Speaker 3: don't have to do this. But if you want to

300
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Speaker 3: do this, we're going to get the best out of you,

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Speaker 3: and this is how we're going to do it.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting because you don't I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't understand the power of of what being

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Speaker 1: a will and participant is, right, Like, that's the essence

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Speaker 1: of all participation.

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Speaker 2: If if, if, if.

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Speaker 1: You're not willing to go all in on whatever, whatever, the.

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Speaker 2: The structure of integration is.

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Speaker 1: Right. What if you're not willing to open up your heart,

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Speaker 1: your mind, your physicality, even your spiritual dedication to each

311
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Speaker 1: other to be in all in, then the program doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it doesn't. And I'll be honest. I have

313
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Speaker 3: a son and I've seen it in his friend groups,

314
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,439
Speaker 3: not in him as much, but there is kind of

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00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 3: like this, uh, like they're just their their presence is

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00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 3: there because that's what's deemed necessary, Like they didn't choose

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Speaker 3: to be here, or that kind of attitude of like

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Speaker 3: there's no choice that they made to be here at

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Speaker 3: work or whatever. And so I see that in young people.

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Speaker 3: I don't see it in young Marines I meet. So

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Speaker 3: I think that that that that power that I don't

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Speaker 3: I don't want to call it like stoic choice theory,

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Speaker 3: but can maybe somewhere around in there like that's still

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Speaker 3: part of the Marine Corps. I think that comes to

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Speaker 3: be blunt. We we are institution, and I say we

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Speaker 3: still even though I am very far out of the

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Speaker 3: Marine Corps, you know, but uh, we are an institution

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Speaker 3: that values tradition, and I think there's something in that

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Speaker 3: tradition where it's that that stoic choice theory of like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you chose to be here, you chose to be a marine, Like.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I was one of my closest friends, former recon marine

333
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Speaker 1: and now he's a Marine Reserve officer from Marsok out

334
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Speaker 1: out West. And when he was at the agency with me,

335
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Speaker 1: he spent some time in Libya and had the opportunity

336
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Speaker 1: to go to the grave site where the Marines who

337
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,360
Speaker 1: died in the Barbary Wars the first Barbary Exchange. Their

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00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: gravestones are still there. There's like and he went there

339
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Speaker 1: and he did the etching, you know, has it and

340
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Speaker 1: he has it in his office and I was like,

341
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 1: what's that? And he tells me this story and it's

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Speaker 1: like literally the beginning, right, It's like the overseas beginning

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Speaker 1: of the Marine Corps conquest in the Barbary Wars. And

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Speaker 1: I could tell the pride in him, right, And I

345
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 1: could tell that, and you know, it was one of

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00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 1: those things that there's just such a historical re elevance

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Speaker 1: to the impact that the Marine Corps has had and

348
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 1: then has at all times. Right, there's just a really

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Speaker 1: there's something solemn. Maybe solemn's not the right word. There's something.

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Speaker 2: There's a.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what is it. It's there's there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a depth, right, there's a depth. There's there's a

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Speaker 1: a depth of legacy and honor and tradition, like you said,

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Speaker 1: that's so powerful in the core that it precedes you. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like you get you know, four people walk into the room.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're wearing your dress blues and the rest.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm in my soupy say you know, I'm

358
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Speaker 1: in my you know, I come out, you know, and

359
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 1: I get my little I get my little fucket I

360
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 1: get and I'm like, I'm like, hey, what's up. I'm here,

361
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: And You're like, get out of here, retard. You know,

362
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Speaker 1: we want the we want the marine and and I

363
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Speaker 1: there's just something powerful and you learn to carry that immediately,

364
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: don't you like in like that's a part of the

365
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Speaker 1: responsibility that you are.

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Speaker 2: A not a member, but it's too light.

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Speaker 1: You're you are a part of the brotherhood that this

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00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 1: whole thing represents, and you owe it to that brotherhood

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Speaker 1: to be that forever agreed.

370
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Speaker 3: And like what they told us in boot camp and

371
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Speaker 3: in SI and even in the fleet was once a marine,

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Speaker 3: always a marine. And I think that is a remarkable

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Speaker 3: thing to have. Once you are a marine, You're no

374
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 3: one's taking that away from you. You're always going to

375
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Speaker 3: be a marine. I do think that it is a choice,

376
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Speaker 3: you know, Like I always want to present the good

377
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 3: principles and qualities of that as well. I know that

378
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 3: they're is stuff like you know in the veterans community,

379
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,239
Speaker 3: like calm down, gun home, like like you're not a

380
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 3: marine anymore, you know. I I tend to be on default,

381
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 3: on the cringe side, I guess you could call it,

382
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 3: or like I love it. I love talking about it.

383
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 3: I love the Marine Corps. I had the prison you

384
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Speaker 3: should as you should.

385
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 2: You earn that right.

386
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: You not only did you earn the right by just

387
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,479
Speaker 1: going through the training and putting on a uniform. But

388
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: you definitely earned the right by going to combat multi absolutely,

389
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: and and that's and I think that's the beauty of it. Like,

390
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, you generate these bonds so significantly in training

391
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: with these other men that that believe right at its core,

392
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: Like every time I talk to people, well why'd you

393
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: join this?

394
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: Or why'd you join that?

395
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: And like every dude that I know that's a marine

396
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: is like I joined because I wanted to be a marine. Yeah, right,

397
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: like in there and it's and it's spoken in this

398
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: way where it's just like like you're there with audio

399
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: are not Audio Murphy, but like a chesty Poller, right,

400
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're side by side, arm in arm.

401
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 2: With chesty Puller.

402
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: And and that's a powerful thing man, And and it

403
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: really has exemplified it in the core itself. Tell me

404
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: about the guys, some of the guys, and you don't

405
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: have to use your names, but what stood out about

406
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: the men that were around you just some some things

407
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: that you noticed about each other.

408
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 3: Genuine They were very genuine men.

409
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 4: They all had a uh, I don't want to call

410
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 4: it like a all for one and one for all mentality,

411
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 4: but that's kind of how I felt when I was there.

412
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 3: You know, we all came from different backgrounds, different places,

413
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 3: and we were all in one, for lack of a

414
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 3: better term, suck together right in camp or whether we're

415
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 3: in SI or whether we're just in the field in campus,

416
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 3: you know, or if we're in combat, like especially because

417
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 3: that's where all that stuff was preparing us to be

418
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 3: right and all those like I want to say, all

419
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Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of those men absolutely just terrify me, David.

420
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: So like there's always one turn right, there's all.

421
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 3: Just terrifying, you know. But so ninety nine percent of

422
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 3: those men all had a very genuine perspective on life,

423
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 3: what we were doing and who they were.

424
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: You know.

425
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 3: So like if one guy was, hey, i'm stud, pet stud, Like,

426
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: you knew who that guy was immediately, he didn't he

427
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 3: didn't hide it, you know, or he didn't try to.

428
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 3: You know, if we're all in a squad together and

429
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 3: this guy's got the best PFT, like, you knew exactly

430
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 3: who that guy was, and this guy's the best at

431
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, doing.

432
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: Math, you knew who that guy was. Yeah, it's very cool, Yeah,

433
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 2: and it was.

434
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: I always get a sense that even though Marines break

435
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: balls with the best of them. Yeah, if you get

436
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: a group, you get a platoon of Marines, and you

437
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: do have those individual guys like they'll boast about it.

438
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: They'll they'll there, they'll brag about their teammates like, yeah,

439
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: like it is that ride or die lifestyle, right, and

440
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: that's built into it.

441
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 2: And I just think it's such a.

442
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: It's such a transformational experience to know that now you

443
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: have this, this camarade, this level of camaraderie that is

444
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: a derivative of that. You know, you always say, I

445
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 1: raise my right hand and I sign a blank check

446
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: for you know, the United States of America. Who yah, whatever,

447
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: But really what you're doing is you're signing that check

448
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: for the dude who's on your right and your left.

449
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: And I think you guys embody that from the get

450
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: go with such a powerful way.

451
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 3: It is and I'll say even through generations. So I'm

452
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: a little bit older now and I'm more in the

453
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 3: veteran community than I am like the activeauty, and I

454
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 3: meet other Marines who, like the guys I served with

455
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: and went to combat with, Yeah, we have a fierce

456
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: comaraderie and we can bust ball is pretty good too,

457
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: by the way. But even the younger guys who came

458
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: in ten years after me. Now and I can see

459
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: and I go, oh, that's a marine right there. And

460
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 3: my wife's like, oh, you know, I was like watch this,

461
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: and I'll go over and you know, hey, what's going on?

462
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: A marine or devil dog? How do you know? Well,

463
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: Airica gave you away.

464
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 3: But I leave them in the community and like they're

465
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: police officers, firefighters, teachers, fathers, just doing things that marines do,

466
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 3: you know, just improving their environment and proving around them

467
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 3: and just being gung ho.

468
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 2: You know, I love it.

469
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: I love it all right, all right, so you go,

470
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: you check in in le June. Now we're dealing may

471
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: of two. It's funny, that's that's when I first landed

472
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan.

473
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: Was a Mayo two my first trip. And and so

474
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: now you're there.

475
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: Obviously the mentality of the war in Afghanistan is shifting

476
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: a little bit, right and now it's starting to become

477
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: all right, we've inserted the government, we got cars.

478
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: I in.

479
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: When did you guys, like when you landed and you

480
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: started training there with your platoon, you know, was it

481
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: was it like, oh, man, we might not be going

482
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: over there, or had had there been an idea like

483
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: had the murmuring, Because I remember when I got back

484
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: when we when I first went over on an Advon,

485
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: when got February of O two in Kuwait City, there

486
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: was almost no build up for Iraq. And then when

487
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: I got back to Bahrain afterwards and we went and

488
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: got all our stuff in Kuwait after Bahrain, like there

489
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: was a massive build up beginning for Iraq. And so

490
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: just in that short amount of time, there was this

491
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 1: huge shift where, oh, no, Iraq's going too. So did

492
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: tell me about that time when you were in Lajuh

493
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: for like six seven months.

494
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we checked in and the battalion had just

495
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 3: come back from Okinawa and they did a rotation over

496
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: in Okinawa and they were over there when nine to

497
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: eleven happened, and so they thought, like the senior Marines

498
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 3: to the junior Marines, that's always kind of like a thing,

499
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 3: and there was hazing involved, but it was more just

500
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: a good clean initiation if you ask me, you know,

501
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: into the infantry, and they they were kind of in

502
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: the mentality like our corporals and sergeants were like telling

503
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: us like, hey, we already seen the craziest thing when

504
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: we got stood up during nine to eleven when we

505
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: were in Okinawa. You guys aren't even gonna see anything

506
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: like that. And then we did a combined arms exercise

507
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 3: out in twenty nine Palms together and it was still

508
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: kind of that same mentality.

509
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: You know.

510
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: The training was is Cold War era training, So we

511
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: were a big infantry unit training like a big infantry

512
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 3: unit in twenty nine Palms. And then when we came back,

513
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: that's when murmurs started to happen. After we came back

514
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: from that training cycle, and maybe even a little bit,

515
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: maybe a month or two even after that. But in

516
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: December of two thousand and two, we were pretty much

517
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 3: like locked in. We're like, yeah, we're gonna end up

518
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 3: going to Iraq, and we had telling us.

519
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: And you had commanders telling you that.

520
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: In December of two, you had commanders saying, yeah, Jens,

521
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: guess what where it slotted.

522
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: This is what it's going to happen.

523
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: Did they give you any kind of rough timelines at

524
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: that where they saying anything.

525
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: So it was getting ready to be Christmas and a

526
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: lot of guys were going out on leave, and so

527
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 3: the officers did give us a timeline of hey, when

528
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 3: you come back, we're getting ready to deploy, and so

529
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: don't don't, don't, don't disappear. It is essentially what the

530
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: officer were saying, like, you will miss a movement and

531
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: it will be extremely severe if you missed this movement.

532
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: And wow, they were maybe even talking more to the

533
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 3: seniors who've kind of seen a little bit more of

534
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: that preem nine to eleven. We're like, yeah, you might

535
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,239
Speaker 3: get slapped on the wrist you show up a day

536
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: or too late. No, they were like very strict about hey,

537
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: you're going on leave and you will be here at

538
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: this time. And back then I was little Lance Corporal Griffiths.

539
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: Well actually I was still PFC. I picked up Lance

540
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: corporal in transit on the USS Manse that's coolly on ship,

541
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 3: which was I love the experience of ship itself. But yeah,

542
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: they were very strict with the leave. They they didn't

543
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: give us leave. I came home for that Christmas for

544
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: a week maybe, and then I made sure I was

545
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: on my flight because they were very adamant about, hey,

546
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: you you do not want to miss this movement as

547
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 3: you'll suffer real consequence.

548
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So you knew it's coming you, but

549
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: you're still you're you're rolling off old school training, right,

550
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: Gulf War, first Golf war training, You're That's what the

551
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: mentality of the invasion, I'm sure is going to be.

552
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: Like describe coming back and then getting on that boat

553
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: and heading over. What was morale like, what was the

554
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: dynamics like in the platoon? You know, what were you

555
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: guys talking about? You know, because when you're at C

556
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: right for long periods of time, there's a lot of downtime,

557
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: a lot of border. What was the mentality on that

558
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: boat like during that ride.

559
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: The mentality was you're gonna go to combat. But they

560
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: were not specific. So even the NCOs and some of

561
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 3: the staff NCOs that were in my heavy mortar platoon

562
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: would be like, Hey, we're gonna go do detainee handling

563
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: in Africa, or hey we're going to go do this

564
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 3: operation in Korea or something like that. So but what

565
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: they did, like when we were getting ready to deploy,

566
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: what they did mention was like, hey, you're not deploying

567
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 3: regular So I deployed with Task Force Tarawa and it

568
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: was heavy right, Like it wasn't like a regular MEU

569
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 3: or one battalion and then all the attachments are coming

570
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: with it. We had three infantry battalions. Yeah, holy, three

571
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: infantry battalions crammed onto old ships.

572
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was that like?

573
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: Describe those living arrangements so prison But I'm pretty sure

574
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: what that ship about experience was like.

575
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: Again, I I'm just a kid from Salt Lake City, Utah.

576
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 3: At this point, I'm happy to be on the adventure

577
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: kind of. Yeah, I'm I'm nervous, and I'd lie if

578
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: I said I wasn't afraid. I was afraid going to

579
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: wars not. You know, it's war, and and so there's

580
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: sometimes where here we're just gonna do detain handling it.

581
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: I go write a letter to my mom, Hey mom,

582
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: everything's gonna be just fine, and sergeants so and so

583
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: we're gonna be handling Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we read that

584
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 3: letter and have a clue. You know, he's not you know,

585
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: just let my mom have heard with pleasure.

586
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, here you go, sweet, you just

587
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: keep reading these. Yeah, but we were doing we.

588
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: Were putting gas masks on a lot of it was

589
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 3: for that because that WMD threat and a chemical warfare threat,

590
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: like when we invaded Iraq. We were in mom suits. Yeah,

591
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: so we would on ship practice just putting our gas

592
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: masks on and off and taking apart, are doing all

593
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: kinds of marine stuff that you could possibly think of.

594
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: Pulling up twenty four hours a day on ship. Yeah.

595
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of cards, you know, we play

596
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: board games and stuff like that too.

597
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: Well.

598
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: Was I mean, I think a lot of young people

599
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: that imagine going in and they you know whatever. I

600
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: don't want to call them illusions, but whatever, uh, however

601
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: they concoct the idea of.

602
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: That, right. Oh yeah, man, I'm gonna beat gung ho.

603
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do that.

604
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: Did you experience where there are other guys that were

605
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: trying to project that type of like, ah, I can't

606
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: wait to go, I can't wait to get into it.

607
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: Was there a an attitude like that that was building

608
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: and everybody too.

609
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely an attitude of uh bravado, right yeah,

610
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 3: Like and maybe it's a lot of it was false

611
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: and like I would do it too. I'm not immune

612
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: from it.

613
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: You know.

614
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: I was a twenty year old kid on a ship

615
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 3: going sailing to Iraq, and so like there was a

616
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: lot of that, and then you know, there was We

617
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: had some really good leaders. We had some really good

618
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:34,719
Speaker 3: staff n CEOs and some good just NCO's period. They

619
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 3: were still very genuine. But yeah, it was kind of like, hey,

620
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: if I if I catch you, you know, sleeping on watch,

621
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be your biggest problem, not sa dom saying,

622
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: you know, and I keep those things literal, like, okay, yeah,

623
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 3: I don't want to get killed by my own sergeant

624
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: because I messed up. So that one was there, you know,

625
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: and it was for me it was like a big

626
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: adventure because I was I was just kind of a

627
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: shelter your kid, and now I was sailing through the

628
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: Mediterranean to the Middle East, and so.

629
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: I enjoyed that part of it, Yeah, the adventure.

630
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: So but yeah, I'm going to get all of them

631
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 3: along the the middle of honor and I'm going to

632
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 3: go crush the enemy by myself and all that stuff.

633
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: But we had good leaders who were like, calm down,

634
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: just make sure your stuff's good to go. You know.

635
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk talk a little bit about your leaders.

636
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously nobody had any combat experience. I mean,

637
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, anybody that did was from golf one and

638
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: so they're you know, they're all pretty much gone by then,

639
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, at least at least your senior n c O.

640
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: S Right, So no one, no one had combat experience.

641
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: What what did you gain? What did What was your

642
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: estimation of their mindset and them going like were they

643
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: experiencing the similar feeling as you guys.

644
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: Or or were they uh?

645
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: Were they more conditioned because of more time in to

646
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: be more methodical in their approach to what might be coming.

647
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were definitely more conditioned and methodical and definitely

648
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: had the right mindset. That's the best way I could

649
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: put it is they didn't feed into that youthful exuberance

650
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: for adventure and war like I did. And they made

651
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 3: sure that we were focused on what was our job.

652
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: My platoon sergeant especially, and he was a gunnery sergeant

653
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: who had come straight at drill field, so he was

654
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: a drill instructor, and he was a swim instructor, and

655
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: before that he was an artillery guy, and now he

656
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 3: was a heavy mortar platoon sergeant. And he just did

657
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: an excellent job at now buckling, you know, under that

658
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: much pressure, like, hey, I'm going off the war, I'm

659
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 3: taking these guys to war.

660
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: And he just he made it all about let's do

661
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: the best job we could.

662
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: To even if it's like, hey, we're gonna cut burlap

663
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 3: sacks to put over the headlights. You know what I'm

664
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: saying while we're on ship, this is what we're gonna

665
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 3: do because this is going to help us out later on.

666
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: Or you guys need to be doing this with your

667
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: gas mask.

668
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: You guys need to be doing this as a squad

669
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: and and doing those things.

670
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: You know, he was.

671
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: He was very much a three mile stud Like he

672
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: could do three miles and eighteen minutes. So even on ship,

673
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 3: he tried to get us to run as much as

674
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 3: we could and so but his, uh, his presence was

675
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: very stoic. When he was in front of the platoon,

676
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: he was very stoic. And what you want out of

677
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 3: a leader in that situation.

678
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 2: Well, that's always the greatest thing, is like the people.

679
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: That find their way into those moments, right, those lead

680
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: those true leadership moments. And I believe there's nothing more

681
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: difficult on the planet than leading young men into combat.

682
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it's got to.

683
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: Be just so so profoundly overwhelming to have other people's

684
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: lives and you know, at the ends of your decisions

685
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: and and and when you don't have any you know,

686
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: in depth experience of combat like it, I can't I

687
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: can't imagine how much more intense it is. So all right,

688
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: tell me walk me through when you guys got the

689
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: word the ramp up, and then and then getting deployed,

690
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: and then leaving the boat and starting the because you

691
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: were part of the invasion, right, correct.

692
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 3: So we sailed in the Mediterranean. The rumors were going around.

693
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 3: We heard I guess Jennifer Lopez passed away as what

694
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 3: I heard one rumor was, and some crazy stuff like that.

695
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: And then we sailed through the Suez Canal, and that's

696
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: when we all kind of went, oh, we know where

697
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: we're going. Yeah, we were in the old school desert canyons,

698
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: not the chocolate chip but the old like the old not.

699
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: The digitals, you know.

700
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: And we had our gas masks on us the whole

701
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: time when we were going through the Suez Canal, and

702
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: we've seen all the Egyptian forces lined up on the

703
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: Suez Canal and and and the stuff we were doing.

704
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: So when we sailed to that to us CA, now

705
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: we're like, okay, we're gonna hit Iraq. Guys, were also

706
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 3: getting word you know from other places. You know how

707
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 3: it happens sometimes, Yeah, it does get broken sometimes, and

708
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: and so like yeah, we're gonna go into Iraq.

709
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: And we did like an Elkak.

710
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: Landing in Kuwait, like like a no kidding, like marine landing.

711
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 3: Like we didn't get out and like we weren't we

712
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 3: didn't have Yeah, but just the came droppeds doors and

713
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 3: said get out, and we got out and waited for

714
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 3: helicopters and then we were in Kuwait for Camp Shoot Kuwait.

715
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: We were there for at least thirty days okay maybe,

716
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 3: and then we pushed in with Task Force Tarawak across

717
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 3: the LED and we were in war at that point

718
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: in time.

719
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: And like I said, that, explain that, explain like all right,

720
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: you have all right, Jent, there's twelve hours everybody you're

721
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, you're having your pre mission briefs. You're having

722
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, the the you know, the Grand brief, then

723
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: the platoon brief, and then your squad brief. Just walk

724
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: us through like those briefs and what that feeling was like.

725
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: So we were in Kuwait probably at least two or

726
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 3: three weeks when the President gave Saddam that ultimatum. And

727
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 3: so when after that happened, I believe it was General

728
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 3: the Tonsky who came and gave us the big pitch

729
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 3: your brief, which was just so moto because none of

730
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: us could actually hear what he was saying, except like

731
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 3: when he'd be like kill and we'd all be like yeah,

732
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: kill like and that was like we didn't hear any

733
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 3: details of what he was like, you know. And then

734
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 3: right as he said and the shakana just started. Twenty

735
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: four hours ago, two f eighteens did a near pass

736
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 3: on our camp.

737
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 2: Oh wow. So we were all like, we were like, yeah,

738
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: we're gonna go.

739
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: We're gonna go do this thing. And some guys were

740
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: you know, I had marines who were a little bit older,

741
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 3: you know, and they're like, bro, like, we're just gonna

742
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: get gobbled up by wnd's one as we cross over,

743
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: like were these gas masks and it's gonna suck. I

744
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 3: was like, you know, well, we did our duty. You know,

745
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: we're here, we're gonna we're gonna follow orders.

746
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: But we got the Levy preface at Griff too.

747
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: Because what people don't understand is the absolute suck factor.

748
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: Ten of MOP level four.

749
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: So MOP suits are are biologically biological suits for biological warfare,

750
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: sharing all these other types of gases. It's super thick

751
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: rubber right and with and so if they don't breathe, they're.

752
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: Hotter in hell. Right, you're going to.

753
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: The hottest place unearth as it is. You know, you're

754
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: got this gas mask. So we used to have to

755
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: run the O course and MOP level four and and

756
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: by the time I would finish, right, there'd be like

757
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: an inch of my sweat in my boots at the bottom, right,

758
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: you know the deal. So I just want the audience

759
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: to think about one, you're a twenty year old kid

760
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: and you're going to go in to.

761
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: Combat I E.

762
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: And all you had they had we had to go

763
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: with at that time was the first Gulf War. So

764
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: you're imagining that and that's your frame of reference. And

765
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: now you know now they're saying, oh, and by the way,

766
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: you're going to be completely dawning MOP level four for

767
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future.

768
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: So you got to eat out of this, you got.

769
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: To drink out of it, you gotta live out of it,

770
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: you got to go the bathroom out of it. You

771
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: got to ride in vehicles for fifty hours straight.

772
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: You gotta launch mortars from it.

773
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's just doing that without that mop level.

774
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: For it's difficult enough much less this.

775
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: So I just want to give the audience a perspective

776
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: of not only the young mind, the young marine mind

777
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: that's going into combat, but how they have to go

778
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: into combat was a whole nother story.

779
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: And to add on to that being the youngest guy

780
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: in that situation or the lowest rink guy, because you know,

781
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 3: if you run out of all the detection stuff, what's

782
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 3: the next way we're gonna detect if the environment's deadly

783
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: or not. Hey, PSC, you get to take your mask

784
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: off first, And so that's always that was always there.

785
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: I was actually on the NBC detection team for our company,

786
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: so I I was one of the guys I actually

787
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: got to go do like the little square recons when

788
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: we come to a new site and all kinds of

789
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: fun stuff. But uh, yeah, mom, gear is different. We

790
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 3: would play gas mask soccer on Campbell Jun and I

791
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: don't think any of us ever actually kicked the ball,

792
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: just kicked each other.

793
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's always got to be about a fight, right,

794
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: It's not actually about just any for brawl. Yeah, yeah,

795
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: I love it all right. So you you get a date,

796
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 1: you get a time.

797
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: Tell me that first moment where you sent one forward

798
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: down the pipe, right, you got your whole kid, Just

799
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: talk me, talk us through that.

800
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: So we did get briefed on Nazarea and Ambush Alley

801
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: when we were on the way to there after, Tonsky

802
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: told us, Hey, this is your guys' job. This is

803
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: your guys's mission. It's to secure these two bridges in

804
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 3: this real old town called Nazarea. And I was like, sweet,

805
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: so let's go do this. And we crossed the led

806
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 3: and we knew where we were going, we knew what

807
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: our mission was. And we drove for like two days

808
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 3: in humdies and then we showed up in Nazarea and

809
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: then there was Republican Guard uniform troops outside the city

810
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: and they were in a checkpoint and one of the

811
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 3: Ford observers from the mine company had called in mortars,

812
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 3: and so we shot our eighty one millimeter mortars at

813
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: this checkpoint that I think was probably abandoned way before

814
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: we ever shot at it. Yeah yeah, And it was

815
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: kind of meravado a little bit. We shot the mortars,

816
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: you know, and we were kind of like high five

817
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, yeah, we're combat now. We shot a mortar,

818
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: had normal idea the kind of the ship storm we

819
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: were going to be put in later that day in nazarea,

820
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: because we didn't know what was going on up north

821
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: of us exactly either, and so to keep telling that story,

822
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: we shot those mortars. Then we picked up that position,

823
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: which was just a little south, and then we discovered

824
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: that an army unit, the five oh seventh, had been

825
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: essentially ambushed and then some soldiers were taking kidnapped essentially

826
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 3: at that moment in time. So everything changed from that

827
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: moment when that information came down. Everything became very hastened

828
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: is the best word I have for it. And they said, hey,

829
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 3: you guys are going to push. You guys are going

830
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: to push now, and we kind of looked around, like, hey,

831
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: the plan was to push with these big things called

832
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: abrams tanks next to us. We don't see any of

833
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: them right now. You know, we got these tracks, which,

834
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, if I'm in a firefight, i'd

835
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 3: they still have a track them my Toyota Tacoma right now.

836
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's not a mud.

837
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 3: There's not a lot of difference between the marine track

838
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 3: and the Toyota Tacoma, you know, And so we pushed

839
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 3: in and that's when I fired my rifle for the

840
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: first time at enemy and dressed in Republican Guard uniforms actually,

841
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 3: and also Fettiine fighters who were dressed as civilians. And

842
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: it was all from the back of a humbie for

843
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 3: the first little bit. And then that changed when we

844
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 3: set up inside the city and we were shooting at

845
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: rooftops where guys were coming, popping up over rooftops and.

846
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: Just a lot of crazy.

847
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: Is it is chaotic to think about the day and

848
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 3: how those days events happened.

849
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: You know.

850
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 3: I was in kind of the rear of my battalion's

851
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 3: column right as we moved through, and so we had

852
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: companies that were how big.

853
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: Was the column?

854
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: Let's give an estimation of the size of you guys

855
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: moving around, because that's the other thing I want the

856
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: audience to realize. Like, you know, for us, it's it's

857
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: much more simplistic because we're we move in such small groups,

858
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: but you guys have massive numbers vehicles and people, and

859
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: so describe a little bit of that moving from one

860
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: place to the next and then coming up with the

861
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: next All right, now we're going to go here and

862
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: the waiting, and that's I think that's the thing that

863
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,959
Speaker 1: people just don't understand that they're like, you just put

864
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: the gas pedal down, you drive until you hit people,

865
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: you shoot them, and then you drive, you know, So

866
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: give them a little bit of insight.

867
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 3: So in the battalion, we would have three infantry companies,

868
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: and each infantry company in that task force was what

869
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 3: they referred to as mecht up, which was means they

870
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: had roughly about twelve AAVs, and in each AAV they

871
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: could fit between ten to twenty five marines roughly give

872
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 3: or take, depending on how crammed they would be and

873
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 3: how big the company was. So we had those three

874
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 3: companies roughly like one hundred to twenty one hundred and

875
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: fifty marines in each one of those line companies with

876
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: about a dozen to fifteen tracks. So I don't know

877
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: if people are when I say track it's an amphibious

878
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 3: assault vehicle. It's it looks like a tank, and most

879
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: people think it is a tank, but it's only six

880
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: inches of aluminum not steel. And they'll let you know.

881
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 3: The guys who drive it, like hey, this is not

882
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: a tank, but it it can float or sink slowly

883
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: depending on the years. And so, but I was with

884
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 3: the Weapons Company, so I was more behind the line

885
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 3: companies as well. Weapons company had about like another one

886
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 3: hundred maybe one hundred and twenty marines in it, and

887
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: it was broke up between the heavy water platoon which

888
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 3: I was in, and then we had like the anti

889
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: armor platoons and pretty much anti armor so like small gunners,

890
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: toe gunners, and it was all kind of humby based.

891
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 3: So my platoon had I think we had ten humbi's

892
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 3: give or take, you know, and and we had eight

893
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: mortar guns. And we would break it up each squad

894
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: instead of a marine rifle squad would be a mortar

895
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 3: gun right, and there'd be a squad leader for the

896
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: gun there. And my gunnery sergeant did an excellent job.

897
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: He came from artillery. He did an excellent job preparing

898
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: us at getting those guns to fire on the enemy

899
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 3: and and use those mortars in close support of the

900
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 3: infantry that we were there with, specifically those three companies

901
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 3: that that are ahead of us, because in in the

902
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: Marine Corps, rfos come from our own company. We don't

903
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: we don't. Uh, you know, in the army, they go

904
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: to their own specific school and then send them to

905
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: the wherever they're gonna end up. For us, we just

906
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 3: send one of our own guys to that line company

907
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 3: and he's now the guy with the radio calling in

908
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: the fire mission. And so, uh, just in my battalion alone,

909
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 3: we're looking at like four hundred four hundred, you know.

910
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: So that's just massive, like so massive, I can't even

911
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: wrap my head around it.

912
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, it's it's sometimes weird to think that there's

913
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: that many people and I see faces and crowds, and

914
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 3: I go, I think I know that face, but I

915
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 3: don't really know that face because it's just another four

916
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 3: hundred of you faces.

917
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

918
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: Well, and it's interesting too because you're you're all you're

919
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: moving together, but you're all trained independently, right and you know,

920
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: and it's and it's the coordination of that. It's not

921
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: as fluid as a lot of people think, like it

922
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: takes time for for the tactics of an assault, or

923
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: the tactics of you know, taking a city or a

924
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: city area or whatever, or taking a bridge like this

925
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: is all very complex in terms of the coordination of

926
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: all these different units.

927
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, oh absolutely, and hats off to the men

928
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 3: doing it. We did make mistakes that day, and I

929
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: say we because you know, no one's perfect, you know,

930
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: and some of that coordination did get coopboard a little

931
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 3: bit between our Air National Guard and our our guys

932
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 3: on the ground, you know, and that can happen. But

933
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 3: I really think that, uh, the leadership that I had

934
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 3: was so ready to take like acknowledge the mistake to

935
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 3: be better than next iteration.

936
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's the beautiful aspect I think

937
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: of of one the Marine Corps is there's a built

938
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: in humility like you fuck up, you own it, but

939
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: you move on and that and that's the one thing

940
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: that I really think the adaptability, right, you know, and

941
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: that's that old saying, right, adapt overcome and Concker or

942
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: something like that, and and you know that that embodies

943
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: what the Marine Corps can do, because like the idea

944
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: is like you're you're up front, and so if you're

945
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: not pushing forward, that's the that's what's wrong. Like you

946
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: might push forward and make, you know, a tactical mistake,

947
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: but you're still going to have to push forward in

948
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: the next you know, six to ten hours you're moving forward,

949
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: So all right, get us to where you're a.

950
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: Rample for that one, please.

951
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 3: So when we went into nazarea, the canvas is on

952
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 3: our humpies. We were in high back combies were closed

953
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 3: down over the top of us, and we were all

954
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 3: shooting out the back hatch of it. When we got

955
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 3: to the north side of the nazarea, we said, we

956
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 3: don't need no stinking canvas. We rolled that thing all

957
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 3: the way up and we now all of us could

958
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 3: could fire out three hundred and sixty degrees instead of

959
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 3: this little back hatch. But we learned that right there

960
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 3: in Ambush Alley from the hour before, you know.

961
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: In a firefight.

962
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, we adapted, you know, adapt or die, adapt overcome,

963
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 3: and it happened right then and there with that. You know,

964
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 3: I remember seeing that and go, yep, that's the right thing.

965
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 3: Let's do that, you know.

966
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: So one of the interesting things that I I love

967
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: to talk to guys about is kind of the moment

968
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: where you put away like oh shit, oh shit, oh shit,

969
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: oh shit, and you're just like, hey, if it happens,

970
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: it happens.

971
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 2: I got to do my job.

972
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: And so it's that pivotal moment of like, Okay, I'm

973
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: not gonna waste any more time mentally, emotionally dealing with

974
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 1: the what if of me getting shot, getting blown up, whatever.

975
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: I just have to now only focus on doing what

976
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: I need to do, my job in relation to you know,

977
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: the platoon and accomplishing and its job to walk us

978
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: through that.

979
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: A little bit. Yeah.

980
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 3: So back on the north side of that, during Naseria

981
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 3: on the twenty third, I talked to you about my

982
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 3: battle buddy that I met in the debt program here

983
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 3: here in Salt Lake.

984
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: He was in one of the line companies.

985
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 3: He was in one of the AAVs that got hit

986
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 3: and was exploded and blew up all over the place.

987
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: So I seen that from a humbee as I was

988
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: crossing it, and I seen marines, you know, corpses in

989
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 3: those AAVs, and we actually picked up some of the

990
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 3: Marines who were from you know, there was I think

991
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: two or three AAV's that got hit and they were

992
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: in on the rooftop of a building, which was really

993
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 3: sketchy because we were shooting at Iraqis on the rooftops

994
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 3: of buildings. And then we go wait, wait, wait, that

995
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 3: guy's not an Iraqi that guy's a marine, and the

996
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 3: humby stops and you know, do you guys need a ride? Yeah,

997
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 3: we need a ride. And they jumped in and I

998
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 3: asked one, Hey, where's my buddy at And he just

999
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: looked at me like, hey, he didn't make it. And

1000
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 3: so on the north side of that bridge. When we

1001
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 3: were on the north side and we were kind of

1002
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 3: at a casually collection point, you know, and things were

1003
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 3: still very fluid, that's when my buddy came up to me.

1004
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: He actually had crossed the bridge. He on foot, beat

1005
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 3: fleet and then went across. He didn't cross the bridge

1006
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 3: on foot, he swam across the canal. The Domkin knotts. Yeah,

1007
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 3: my god, he's got an excellent story and I love

1008
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 3: seeing him. But when I seen him, I thought, Okay,

1009
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: now now I understand this. They told us about the

1010
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 3: fog of war, they told us about the chaos of this. Yes,

1011
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 3: and and I thought, Okay, if every day is like this,

1012
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 3: there's a good possibility I'm probably gonna get hit before

1013
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 3: it's over.

1014
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 2: Every day was not like that particular, yeah, no, for.

1015
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: Sure, but but still it it's it. It is what

1016
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: you have to establish some level of cognitive dissonance that like,

1017
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: you can't let that just be this this what this

1018
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: veil that you you're you look through operationally because you're

1019
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: always it's it's interrupting your ability to be as proficient

1020
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: and efficient with your your tactics and your your skill sets. Yeah,

1021
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: all right, So how long was this deployment and and

1022
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: how much like give me kind of the highlights of

1023
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,479
Speaker 1: of how you interpreted it, you know, how we if

1024
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: your success, how you guys felt as a unit, how

1025
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: successful you were, and and really just kind of the

1026
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: the emotional highs and lows of it.

1027
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 3: So definitely, I feel like we were successful in our

1028
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 3: mission in securing the bridges, even after we had kind

1029
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 3: of some mistakes made, you know, in that coordination part

1030
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 3: of it, we still at the end of the day

1031
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 3: marines were on those bridges and they were secure intact,

1032
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 3: and we could push forward north to Baghdad. So Task

1033
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 3: Force hera While, in my opinion, was definitely successful. But

1034
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: that the low is that we did lose eighteen Marines

1035
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 3: in one day wow in nauzarea, and we did have

1036
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 3: a memorial service. So we after nazarea, we were kind

1037
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 3: of held back a little bit, you know, my battalion specifically,

1038
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 3: because we did have the higher casualty rates than the

1039
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 3: other two battalions in the task force. And so we

1040
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 3: did a little bit of kind of just patrolling and

1041
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 3: kind of like security like rear end security kind of

1042
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 3: stuff around Al Coup in that area as well. And

1043
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 3: we were there for probably like another two three months

1044
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 3: total in that area of Iraq. We stayed at a

1045
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: TV station there, which was it was interesting because we

1046
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,720
Speaker 3: had a guard tower and I remember, you know, standing

1047
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 3: duty in the guard tower and chasing like I I

1048
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 3: small animals around this TV station in a humbie like

1049
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,479
Speaker 3: we were hunting back in the woods, you know, and

1050
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 3: would be like get in and we'd chase, you know,

1051
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 3: a bunny rapper or something.

1052
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, we're gonna get in trouble, but you know.

1053
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 3: And then so we were back in campus June, I

1054
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 3: want to say, like it create.

1055
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 2: August, like late August.

1056
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 3: So but we sailed out January, yeah, and we were

1057
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 3: on ship like a month month and a half through

1058
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 3: the Suez and up the Persian and then Kwait Iraq

1059
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 3: and we got back on ship again, which was a

1060
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 3: whole other experience after we had been through combat. You know,

1061
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 3: we're getting on ship eighteen less guys than we came with,

1062
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 3: and a lot of other guys who were metavacked out

1063
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 3: as well, you know, and the Navy guys kind of

1064
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 3: there at first, like that first day, they were just

1065
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 3: kind of like, uh, how do we treat these guys?

1066
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 3: You know, You're just kind of like the standoff distance,

1067
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 3: you know. But then after that it was just like

1068
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 3: back to the normal, like, hey, get out of my way.

1069
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 3: I got to make the ship go, you know. And

1070
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 3: so we sailed back. Yeah, and that took that didn't

1071
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 3: take us nearly as long as sailing there, I guess.

1072
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 3: So I guess they kind of went this way there

1073
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 3: and straight back. We did stop in Palma day Ma

1074
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 3: Yorka for four days that I barely remember.

1075
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: Your first official post combat liberty, which I'm sure was

1076
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: live late.

1077
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 3: We we we were celebrating, you know, being alive, being young,

1078
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 3: and being Marines.

1079
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: And so you're falling, I'm sure too, absolutely, yeah, man.

1080
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 3: And that was the low point of that. We did

1081
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: do like an impromptu memorial service where we shot our

1082
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 3: mortars actually were kind of like the twenty one gun

1083
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 3: salute for those eighteen that we did right there on

1084
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: the north side of nazarea. And then you know, it

1085
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 3: was a low point that it's hard to describe now

1086
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,919
Speaker 3: because there's it was a roller coaster of emotion. Yeah,

1087
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 3: you know this day you're low and then you're high.

1088
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 3: Because it sounds that that survivor's guilt. We've all dealt

1089
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 3: with it. You're glad, you know, you're glad you're going home.

1090
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 3: You're happy to be going home. Yeah, and you know

1091
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 3: it could have been different. So just dealing with all

1092
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 3: of those coming back on ship was its own can

1093
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 3: of worms, you know, wow, just mistakes that we're and

1094
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 3: and things we were hearing about what had happened, things

1095
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 3: we were back home from friends. Yeah, and not to

1096
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 3: get to into the politics, things we were hearing, you

1097
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 3: know about, you know, what was going on and why

1098
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 3: we were there and all that stuff.

1099
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, it started immediately like that.

1100
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: That's the interesting aspect of Iraq versus Afghanistan. Like Afghanistan

1101
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: never was in question until much later. Where I think

1102
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: with Iraq, it was right kind of from the beginning.

1103
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I had buddies that were a part of

1104
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,959
Speaker 1: this group called the original Dirty thirty, and they were

1105
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: in charge for the agency to go out and find

1106
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: the weapons, you know, the gas and the weapons of

1107
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: mass destruction, and very early they were reporting like there's

1108
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: nothing out there. Maybe some old chemical places, but no

1109
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction, no nothing.

1110
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 2: And then you know, I think also the al Qaeda.

1111
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: Ties were disproving pretty rapidly after that. So you know,

1112
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: I did have a bunch of buddies that were part

1113
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: of the initial push, and you know, they've got great

1114
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: stories like you and and going through. But again, you know,

1115
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: when they got back, you know, after that first cruise,

1116
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: things began to shift for sure. And when when you

1117
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: were back, how soon when you guys got did you

1118
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: get leave?

1119
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 2: And then what did you do on the leave?

1120
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: And then how soon after you came back from leave

1121
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: where they're like, all right, Griff, get ready, jock back up,

1122
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: you're going again.

1123
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, we did get a leave. We got a

1124
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 3: big block a leave. When we got back. I think

1125
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 3: it was like a thirty day leave they gave us.

1126
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 3: And I came home and my community welcomed me, you know,

1127
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 3: as best as they could with all that other stuff

1128
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 3: going on.

1129
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 2: Like my mom is very on the other.

1130
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 3: Political side of the war, so like I'm dealing with that,

1131
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 3: and I'll be I'll be honest. I didn't know, you know,

1132
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 3: so when I was a young, dumb twenty year old

1133
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 3: full of fight, I just came home and go, yeah,

1134
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 3: of course we were doing the right thing, you know, like.

1135
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: One percent, you know we all did we all? I mean,

1136
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: that's what you do? Why why would you? And it's

1137
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so ironic because I do get hit

1138
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: this question a lot now.

1139
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: They're like, do you regret what you did?

1140
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: Right?

1141
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 2: You know?

1142
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: And and and I say, I don't regret anything I did.

1143
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: I regret because I of who I was with, and

1144
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: that's why I did it was for the guys that

1145
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: where I was with. But yeah, there's a component of

1146
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: me that once I really came to understand the the

1147
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: the politics that were behind not not only Iraq, but

1148
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: certainly Afghanistan. And you know, I mean, once you learn

1149
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: the story of Jawbreaker and how you know that that

1150
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: ground branch team and the Delta guys that were you know,

1151
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: an hour behind ben Laden and then couldn't get ranger support,

1152
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: couldn't get other support, they couldn't get the money to

1153
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: keep this. Like you're like, well, how come this fucking

1154
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: story wasn't told everybody, right, Maybe that would have, you know,

1155
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: saved a couple thousand lives, maybe, you know. And it's

1156
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 1: just like, but that's beside the point. Obviously we could

1157
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: we could have a whole show about how we feel

1158
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: about what we now know to be the reality of

1159
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: those commitments. But but I just want to focus on

1160
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: the strength and the positivity of of your sense of

1161
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: service and then also your sense of camaraderie and the

1162
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: men you served with.

1163
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 3: And and so I had. I had a deep sense

1164
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 3: of camaraderie with the men I served with, even though

1165
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 3: I sometimes we didn't agree, I you know, we were

1166
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 3: aware of that stuff. And one of the stories that

1167
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 3: I tell actually in the book that I self published

1168
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 3: and wrote, is about time in out Coote where we

1169
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 3: were delivering hospital supplies to the hospital there and there

1170
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 3: was a big group of children around are Humdi, you know,

1171
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 3: and they were asking us mister, mister this and that

1172
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 3: and the other. And the only thing I really could

1173
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 3: do because this one Iraqi kit k Kip coming up

1174
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 3: and pressing me on my flak jacket with my uh

1175
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 3: my sappy plate. We only got one, by the way,

1176
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 3: just a little grunt story. We there was there were

1177
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 3: slots for two, but we got want anyways, so he

1178
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 3: was pressing me up. He said, mister, you like he

1179
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 3: wanted to know if that was my real chest, and

1180
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 3: then that was communicated clearly like he thought I was,

1181
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 3: you know, armored d And so I ripped open my

1182
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,479
Speaker 3: flak jacket and I started pounding my chest like King Kong.

1183
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 3: And then these kids start just mimicking me, like I'm

1184
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 3: talking like a hundred little Iraqi kids mimicking me and smiling.

1185
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 3: And I thought, well, that's a good thing we did,

1186
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: you know, And those little victories really gotten me through

1187
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 3: kind of like you know, and you're right objectively cognitively,

1188
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 3: you know, looking back and going paying it, you know,

1189
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 3: like but those little times, and you know, the guy

1190
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 3: right next to my humbie he told me, he's like, hey, Griff,

1191
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 3: you're wasting your time, dude. These kids are going to

1192
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 3: grow up and hate us anyways, and I was like, well,

1193
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 3: not today, you know.

1194
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 2: Not in this moment. That's the way.

1195
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 1: Like my first deployment, I wanted to hate everybody, like

1196
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: I thought that's what I had to do. And then,

1197
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, every deployment after that, you start coming to

1198
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: the realization that civilians caught up.

1199
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: In war, no matter where it is, when it is.

1200
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: Throughout history, those they're the people who suffer the most

1201
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: agreed right, and and and and oftentimes you know, the

1202
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: reason they're suffering isn't quite the most righteous.

1203
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: Endeavor there is.

1204
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: But again and so like after that first one, I

1205
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: always was very cognizant of the women and children that

1206
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 1: just found themselves in these war zones and to try

1207
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: and force empathy within my heart to realize, like, how

1208
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: would I want soldiers to treat my daughters and my

1209
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: wife if you were invaded here, right, you know, and

1210
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: that although you know the likelihood or whatever, but how

1211
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:23,479
Speaker 1: am I going to be I'm not going to lose

1212
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: my humanity for just because I don't have to do that.

1213
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 3: And I think I struggled quite a bit actually, even

1214
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 3: in that coming home and being on that thirty day block,

1215
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 3: trying to force people to see it that way that

1216
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 3: I was seeing, you know, when they would be like, no,

1217
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 3: this is what's going on and you just don't know

1218
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 3: because you're brainwashed or whatever, and like I'm like, no,

1219
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 3: this is what I experienced. You know what I'm saying, like, yes,

1220
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 3: war's horrific and deadly, but there's also those these little

1221
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 3: moments that are are noble, you know, and yes, yeah,

1222
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 3: and that's what I've still trying to articulate that better,

1223
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 3: you know, progress, We're always working towards that all this,

1224
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 3: and so I still try to articulate that better because

1225
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 3: I do think it is important, you know, just as

1226
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 3: important as the big pitcher, you know, is those little

1227
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 3: individual wins and speaking about conraderie like me and the

1228
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 3: guy that told me that he ended up doing twenty

1229
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 3: years in the Marine Corps and getting out as a

1230
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 3: first sergeant.

1231
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 2: Great dude, And you know we.

1232
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 3: Still talk to this day about stuff, you know, like this,

1233
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 3: and him and I are more similar minded about a

1234
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 3: lot of stuff now in twenty twenty five, you know.

1235
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 3: But it is that camaraderie of men who don't necessarily

1236
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 3: have to agree about everything.

1237
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 2: There's something that is man.

1238
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 3: That's the Marine Corps too, is because there's guys who,

1239
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 3: you know, it doesn't matter I'm a Christian. You could

1240
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 3: be a Christian, but you could also be a Muslim

1241
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 3: and be a marine and you're still going to be

1242
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 3: a marine. We're still going to do the job that

1243
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 3: we're here to do, and we're gonna do it with honor.

1244
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 3: And that's what I tried to communicate my darnedest to

1245
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 3: when I was home on leave. And then when we

1246
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 3: came back to campus June, we didn't really think we

1247
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 3: were going to go back. We thought, okay, we did

1248
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 3: our part, like send somebody else now, And there was

1249
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 3: guys back at campus June chomping at the bit, you know,

1250
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 3: to go, because we came back and we had this

1251
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 3: fancy little ribbon now that said we've been in combat,

1252
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 3: and they didn't, so you know, they were chomping at

1253
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 3: the bit to go. We did another iteration of CAS

1254
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 3: at twenty nine Palms and then that's when.

1255
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 2: We heard that we were going to be what's CACS.

1256
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 3: It's combined arms exercise and it's the old Cold War

1257
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 3: stuff that the Marine Corps Infantry used to do, where

1258
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 3: they'd get the artillery, the tanks, the mortars and everybody

1259
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 3: firing in the same range. It's really cool. Actually I

1260
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:53,439
Speaker 3: loved it.

1261
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's impressive as hell.

1262
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lethality in that that seems like, oh,

1263
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: this is how wars are won right here, you know,

1264
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: and to be able to participate in that, it's got

1265
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: to be exhilarating out a minimum and then out of maximum, like, yeah,

1266
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: this is why we're the Marine Corps.

1267
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: This is why we're bad ass. Yeah.

1268
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's there was a little bit of pride

1269
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 3: in that, like, hey, cause I got to be tasked

1270
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 3: to be a FO on the next time, and so

1271
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 3: I was getting to call in for fire, I was

1272
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 3: going to talk to aviators up in f eighteens and

1273
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 3: and I remember one day vividly on that second time

1274
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 3: we were down in twenty nine Palms. They had Air

1275
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 3: Force guys dropping and they were dropping way off from

1276
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 3: where these Fateen Marine pilots were dropping, and we're just

1277
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 3: like on the ground, we're just going, yeah, that's right,

1278
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,600
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's right. You know. But yeah, that

1279
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 3: force and readiness that the Marine Corps offers, and I

1280
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 3: know that there's been a little bit of talk about

1281
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 3: getting rid of the Marine Corps, which is really dumb insanity.

1282
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 2: There's no better.

1283
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:02,679
Speaker 3: Group to fight air, ground and seed than a Marine

1284
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 3: expeditionary unit like a you It's just so valuable to

1285
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 3: the country into global politics and stuff.

1286
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 2: Like that.

1287
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, so we were doing that training, and yeah,

1288
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 3: the camaraderie was always there, you know, when we were

1289
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 3: in twenty nine palms were we were guys who had

1290
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 3: come back from Iraq and now we were kind of,

1291
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 3: you know, we were trying to to get ready for

1292
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 3: whatever came at us next, even though we were kind

1293
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 3: of like, oh, we're not going to do anything at

1294
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 3: that moment in time quite yet.

1295
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so you you weren't sure it was

1296
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: still going. This is probably you said you August you

1297
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: left your back, so now you're moving into four.

1298
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 2: And it was it was in.

1299
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: What was it, I think it was April or May

1300
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: four when the Blackwaters guys got hung from the bridge

1301
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: in Fallujah, right, correct, Yeah, yeah, and then and then

1302
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: after that is when all hell broke loose?

1303
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: Right, So where were you in your timeline around that?

1304
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 3: So we we were doing the MEW work up when

1305
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 3: that happened. We were on the back end of that

1306
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 3: MEW work up and getting ready to deploy. And because

1307
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 3: we were doing a MEW there was all kinds of

1308
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 3: rumors like, oh, we're just gonna go like you know

1309
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 3: our predecessors did and go to Japan. And we're gonna

1310
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 3: sit in you know, camp whatever it is there in

1311
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 3: Okanawa and not do anything we did not know and

1312
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 3: and lance corporal should not assume that's you know.

1313
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 5: Above their pay grade, because I think when that did

1314
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 5: happen and we were ready to be a MEW and

1315
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 5: we had all the attachments for a MEW, they were like, nope,

1316
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 5: this MEW is going to go back to t Iraq.

1317
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 2: And that's when we found.

1318
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 3: Out we were going to go to the Triangle of

1319
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 3: Death and uh Musai Biscandaria area and and go do

1320
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 3: what they were calling security uh and sustainment operations at that.

1321
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: Point, any sustain And that's right, I forgot that. Yeah,

1322
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: I got one of the hearts and minds yea, yeah, yeah,

1323
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: security sustain in hearts and minds. That the mix of those,

1324
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 1: right is like, you know, we're gonna beat you into

1325
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:15,480
Speaker 1: submission type mentality, all right, So you get this brief

1326
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 1: right and then talk about the next time. I mean,

1327
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: it's it's got to be a completely different feeling the

1328
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: second time as you begin to prepare.

1329
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was completely different. For one, we didn't we

1330
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: weren't on ship. Yeah, we were amute, but we took.

1331
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 3: Seven forty seven straight to Quait City this time and

1332
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 3: flew there on commercial jets and then the camp. When

1333
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 3: we got to the camp, it was a lot different.

1334
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 3: So the first camp was spartan, light conditions, I kid

1335
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 3: you not. We were MRIs and sleeping on dirt. And

1336
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 3: then the second camp had pizza hut on it, you know,

1337
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 3: and so like it had a little coffee thing, and

1338
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 3: it had like a tent that had bootleg movies that

1339
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 3: were playing all the time and stuff like that.

1340
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 2: But what was cool about that.

1341
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 3: Camp was there was actually, for the first time in

1342
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 3: my service, I encountered I encountered other military personnel who

1343
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 3: were coalision forces, and so that was kind of interesting.

1344
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 2: As well, you know.

1345
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 3: But yeah, we we did get brief when we were there,

1346
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 3: like hey, you guys are definitely going to go into

1347
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 3: a hot part of this country.

1348
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 2: You need to be ready. And so we what was

1349
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 2: that like, I mean, how do you get ready?

1350
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you've done all your preliminary training, but

1351
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 1: now you know, they're the the counterinsurgency was building, they

1352
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:39,959
Speaker 1: were their tactics were evolving. Is there a moment where

1353
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: you guys, obviously you're getting turnover feedback from the other

1354
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 1: Marines that are operating the other Army units. Did you

1355
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 1: guys have to alter or change tactics or learn something

1356
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:51,799
Speaker 1: new on the ground.

1357
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, completely different set of work up that we did.

1358
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 3: We did like a two week course at March Air

1359
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 3: Force Base where we we had opt for living in

1360
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 3: like an abandoned part of the base housing and we

1361
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 3: were going to go in and patrol and we lived

1362
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 3: for like a week and a half with these guys

1363
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 3: with sim rounds, kind of almost simulating exactly what we

1364
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 3: were going to be doing. That's cool, Yeah, I thought, well,

1365
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 3: and that's the MEW. The Meal was very locked on

1366
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 3: with that, you know. The leadership in the MEU was like, Hey,

1367
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 3: we're gonna not send these guys back to another Cold

1368
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 3: War iteration where they're gonna learn something that they're not.

1369
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: Going to use.

1370
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 3: And so right before we left, we were at March

1371
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 3: Air Force Base and we did that training cycle and

1372
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 3: that was extremely helpful and like individually personally getting ready,

1373
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 3: like everyone kind of handled it different. In my o pplatoon,

1374
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 3: we did have two Marines who uh went you way,

1375
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 3: you know, they they checked out, you know, and so

1376
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 3: like like I said, it is always a choice. It's

1377
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 3: always kind of that choice. It's not just it's not

1378
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 3: like once you're graduate way to boot camp, like you

1379
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 3: still got to choose to be that marine that you're

1380
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 3: supposed to be and not be kind of that that

1381
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 3: other marine.

1382
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: Why was it like getting like new guys in now

1383
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 1: and how many how many guys that you know had

1384
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: an actual combat pomp and then what was it like

1385
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: with the new guys and that integration?

1386
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 3: Uh, conflictual, A lot of conflict those coming in because

1387
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 3: there was a lot of ego involved once you're a

1388
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:33,639
Speaker 3: combat veteran, and the corporals and sergeants, Yeah, they were

1389
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 3: God's gift to the infantry, you know, and you knew

1390
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 3: guys who are coming in You don't know Jack squat

1391
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 3: because you haven't been in one day of a firefight

1392
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 3: and then you know, six months of a camping trip.

1393
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 2: So there was a lot of that. We did get

1394
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 2: in trouble.

1395
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 3: You know, there were guys who got brought up on

1396
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 3: charges for hazing and that iteration the one I showed

1397
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 3: up in. No one ever got brought up on charges,

1398
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 3: but that second at one there was some definitely I

1399
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 3: would I would call it inappropriate stuff going on as well,

1400
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 3: and so that was handled accordingly, you know. And uh,

1401
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 3: but yeah, the new guys coming in, they were scared

1402
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 3: at first, and then after a while they just they

1403
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,759
Speaker 3: just were in the suck long enough, Like this sucks,

1404
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 3: and we're all here together, right, Like you got the

1405
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 3: right idea, did so, And that's.

1406
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 1: Such a critical piece of something to learn in your life, right,

1407
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: Like we all have this natural propensity under that duress

1408
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: in the suck, like we just it's just natural to

1409
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: want to bitch and moan.

1410
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 2: It's just we're you know, I mean, we're human beings.

1411
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: But like the guy that gets it first, like to

1412
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 1: look at the dudes around you and be like, all right,

1413
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: that's a hard motherfucker right there. I'm gonna just mimic him, right,

1414
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just do what he does. I'm gonna, you know,

1415
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: if I see him do something, I'm And it's like

1416
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:02,600
Speaker 1: learning that early as a new guy is so valuable

1417
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: in anything you do, right and any working for any

1418
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: business or any whatever. Like you you see, all right,

1419
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: what's the best way as a person who doesn't know

1420
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: anything to gain the respect of others by doing what

1421
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: I'm told?

1422
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 2: Not bitching, not making.

1423
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 1: It worse, not making it more problematic, but just like

1424
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 1: solid commitment to whatever it is that you need me

1425
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 1: to do, I'm here to do it.

1426
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we were really fortunate our platoon sergeant stayed

1427
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 3: as the platoon sergeant for those two deployments, and so

1428
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:42,679
Speaker 3: he he was a constant, stoic presence, you know, even

1429
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 3: when we changed commanders, so we got a new lieutenant,

1430
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 3: you know, we had the same gunnery sergeant and it

1431
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 3: was just a very appropriate man to be put in

1432
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 3: that job. And he prepared his platoon as best as

1433
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 3: he could and he did a fine job doing it.

1434
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 3: And then yeah, there was always someone there to look

1435
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 3: up to, you know. And when I was either a

1436
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 3: PFC or a lance corporal or even a corporal, there

1437
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,759
Speaker 3: was like a gunnery sergeant who I could go, well,

1438
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 3: I can just mimic that guy and what you see

1439
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 3: with my squad, and that's that's good to go.

1440
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 2: That's cool. All right.

1441
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 1: Talk about your own personal experience now in that second deployment,

1442
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 1: because this is deployment. You were injured, So why don't

1443
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 1: you why don't you take us through like a few

1444
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: weeks before then then the op you got injured and

1445
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: then we'll go from there.

1446
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:35,560
Speaker 3: So I got married in between deployments.

1447
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 2: Oh shit, congratulations, man.

1448
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 3: I went to Florida on A ninety six and met

1449
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 3: my wife down there with a battle buddy of mine

1450
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 3: who was from the Pensacola area. Yeah, because on a

1451
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 3: ninety six you can't go from campbells Chooon to Salt Lake.

1452
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,599
Speaker 2: And now back then, he I think I.

1453
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 3: Married a girl from down there, and she was pregnant

1454
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 3: with my son, and so I had that going through

1455
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 3: my head and I was actually really concerned about it.

1456
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 2: You know.

1457
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 3: One of the reasons we got married in the courthouse

1458
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,640
Speaker 3: outside Campbell's units because we had planned a wedding in Pensacola,

1459
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 3: but Lance Corporal shouldn't have planned ship because that that

1460
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:21,520
Speaker 3: schedule got moved up, you know, and wedding got canceled.

1461
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, if something does happen, I

1462
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 3: want to make sure that my child is taken care of.

1463
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 3: Let's just get this legal on the books and then

1464
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 3: we'll work it out later, you know. Yeah. Yeah, And

1465
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:35,759
Speaker 3: so that was there, and then that's.

1466
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: A massive that's a massive thing, Like it's difficult for

1467
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 1: people you're you're living such a transitory life as is

1468
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:48,719
Speaker 1: so finding roots being in one place, your your your

1469
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:53,640
Speaker 1: family is your teammates, and the whole your whole focus,

1470
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 1: like your whole world is relative to that. And and

1471
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you bring like how old

1472
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,600
Speaker 1: was your wife.

1473
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 2: At the time. She's nineteen year twenty one at the time. Right,

1474
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 2: she's pregnant. You've got one combat.

1475
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: Deployment under your belt, and you're fixing to get ready

1476
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: to go get another one. Like you guys are kids,

1477
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 1: man like literal kids dealing with the most extreme life

1478
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: circumstances that exist.

1479
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,480
Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about.

1480
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,800
Speaker 1: How you were managing that together and then independently.

1481
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:32,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, so together.

1482
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 3: We were actually introduced by my buddy, right, and his

1483
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 3: fiance who he got married to, was my wife's best friend,

1484
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:49,719
Speaker 3: and so we had kind of a community to lean

1485
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 3: on as well. And then where I'm from, Salt Lake City, Utah, marriage, young,

1486
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 3: star family, young is the expectation. I'm not LDS. I

1487
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 3: was actually as Catholic, but like it's still is kind

1488
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 3: of like the expectation.

1489
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 2: It should be the expectation everywhere.

1490
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean, God, if we could go back to that,

1491
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:11,200
Speaker 1: we would reduce so many of the problems that we had.

1492
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 3: Agreed and so we were handling it as best we could.

1493
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 3: You know, my wife was very dependent on her mother,

1494
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 3: like she was still nineteen years old, and they they

1495
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 3: were they were from Pensacola, so they're they're they're not

1496
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 3: they're in the loop with the military to a certain right,

1497
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 3: like they understand the game. And so they understood like, Okay,

1498
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 3: let's let's make sure she's taken care of. And and

1499
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 3: she was, and so her family I'm very grateful to.

1500
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 3: And then my family was very supportive as well, Like

1501
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 3: my father was very patriotic and he was very proud

1502
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,719
Speaker 3: of my service. And my mother, even though she didn't

1503
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 3: agree with it and was heartbroken, she was very supportive

1504
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 3: of me starting a family as well.

1505
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 2: She liked that.

1506
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 3: And and in my mind I kind of was like, well, yeah,

1507
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 3: why not. You know what I'm saying, like, I'll start

1508
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:07,959
Speaker 3: a family and then I'll go, you know, maybe possibly

1509
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 3: get killed in combat.

1510
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's the thing, like that's the thing

1511
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: that people are like, like you did what, like, like, hell, yeah,

1512
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 1: let's go do I mean, you you're all your attention

1513
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: should be on being a marine and staying alive. But

1514
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 1: what people don't realize, right, there's there's a texture of

1515
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 1: life that exists when your life is is when you're

1516
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: living a culture of death. Yeah right right, and that

1517
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: and that texture is is fragile.

1518
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 2: Right.

1519
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,600
Speaker 1: You don't know how much you got, you don't know

1520
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: how long it's going to last.

1521
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 2: So meeting somebody.

1522
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 1: Falling in love wanting to have a child, like, it's like, no,

1523
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: I want to get after this because I don't know

1524
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 1: in a year from now if I'm even going to

1525
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 1: be here. And and I think people like people, you know,

1526
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: there's always the funny memes about you know, young Marines,

1527
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, going to the strip club and getting married

1528
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 1: and you know, getting the new vehicle and buying the

1529
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: house and then they have nothing when they get so

1530
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 1: you know that's all. But the reality is there's a

1531
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 1: sense of urgency to live life to its fullest that

1532
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 1: kind of governs this behavior a little bit.

1533
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:28,360
Speaker 2: Don't you think.

1534
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 3: I'd agree with that one hundred percent? And that's what

1535
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 3: I wanted to get married. I wanted to have children,

1536
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 3: and I thought, okay, I might have an opportunity to

1537
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,600
Speaker 3: do it with this beautiful girl who who was attracted

1538
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 3: to me as well at the time, and she still is.

1539
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 3: We're still married, by the way, So we were one

1540
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 3: of the few that made it through that, you know,

1541
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 3: and there's plenty of other stories, but she was she

1542
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 3: was a rock when I got wounded. She was a great,

1543
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 3: great wife to have, great partner through all of that.

1544
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 3: But yeah, so managing was just kind of like, hey,

1545
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,600
Speaker 3: I want to make sure on my end, like legally

1546
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 3: your guild, Like I know my mom and dad are

1547
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 3: going to do the right thing regardless. You know, they're

1548
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 3: good people. They're not going to be like, oh, our grandsons,

1549
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 3: you know, nothing to do with us or nothing. Yeah, yeah,

1550
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 3: Kia or whatever. That's not who my parents are at

1551
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 3: by any means. But I still wanted to make sure, okay, legally,

1552
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,240
Speaker 3: like just for her sake and for my child's sake,

1553
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 3: they understand, like this is what I wanted, you know

1554
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. So we handled that and adapting. My

1555
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 3: wife is great at adapting, because, like you tell a

1556
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 3: nineteen year old girl, had cancel your wedding plans on

1557
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 3: the phone because I'm gonna be leaving for Iraq a

1558
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 3: month sooner, and they can't. They could maybe take off

1559
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 3: at that point in time, and she just said, Nope,

1560
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 3: we're gonna We're gonna go ahead, and we're gonna go

1561
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 3: through with this, and we're gonna get it done. She

1562
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:56,800
Speaker 3: was a rock star and her friend they would put

1563
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 3: together caier packages for the whole platoon for us, you know,

1564
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 3: so when we're there for Christmas, they send everybody Christmas

1565
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:03,719
Speaker 3: socks and stuff like that.

1566
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 2: So they were rock stars in their own.

1567
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: I mean that's a whole nother thing too. I mean,

1568
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: imagine being a young nineteen year old woman who's pregnant,

1569
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:19,839
Speaker 1: freshly married, and your husband goes to the most dangerous

1570
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:23,879
Speaker 1: place in the world as a marine into combat in Iraq.

1571
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: I mean the magnitude of the the cop not confidence,

1572
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: what is it. It's it's dedication. I agreed to make

1573
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,799
Speaker 1: sure that not only you, but your your platoon mats

1574
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 1: know you're gonna be cared for, know that people are

1575
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 1: praying for you, Know that your loved know that she's

1576
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 1: not going anywhere, know that she's all in. Like that's

1577
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 1: got to be like, does it counterbalance the fear of

1578
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 1: having a child in her at home and going to

1579
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 1: comment knowing that she's all in that back at home.

1580
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,680
Speaker 1: Is it almost make you Does it almost make you

1581
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:05,520
Speaker 1: more focused, more dedicated when you're downrange?

1582
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 2: I would say it does.

1583
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 3: It gives you that something to fight for, and that's

1584
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 3: something after my injury, I definitely learned, you know. And

1585
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 3: like I said, she would put together care packages. So

1586
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 3: you're talking about a nineteen year old girl, barefoot and

1587
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:25,760
Speaker 3: pregnant walking into the Comenia store and buying like ten

1588
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 3: patches of Copenhangen long cut or or Redman. The red

1589
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 3: Man long cut is what I liked, and so I'd

1590
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:33,799
Speaker 3: send her a letter like, hey, send me more Redman

1591
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,680
Speaker 3: long cut, and she's like, they stare at me so

1592
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 3: badly because I'm pregnant and I'm buying all this red

1593
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 3: Man long cut, and I'm just like, you know, So

1594
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 3: it definitely it gives you that that energy. I think

1595
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 3: for sure there's something with that energy there and and

1596
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 3: maybe it's not everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine,

1597
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 3: you know, maybe some guys better off being alone, and

1598
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:02,640
Speaker 3: that's how they that war fighter mentality is there. For me,

1599
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 3: it was always motivating to have a family that I

1600
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 3: was fighting for.

1601
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool, that's beautiful, that's America, right, there before

1602
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 1: we finished that whole thing, before you go to the

1603
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 1: deployment on your second deployment. Let's I just want to

1604
01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 1: give another shout out to another massive, incredible sponsor for

1605
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 1: the David Rutherford Show, and that's Hillsdale College. One of

1606
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: the amazing things about Hillsdale College is they have really

1607
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Speaker 1: some unbelievable free courses. And you know, one of the

1608
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Speaker 1: courses that really just pops that I love so much

1609
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Speaker 1: is the course about the American Revolution and American colonialism

1610
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Speaker 1: and really what we were like before we actually led

1611
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:51,720
Speaker 1: to seventeen seventy six, you know, because it wasn't like

1612
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 1: the colonials woke up on that day, July fourth, and

1613
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: we're like, all right.

1614
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 2: Let's get to business.

1615
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 1: No, they've been working towards this towards this independence for

1616
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 1: years and there's one hundred and fifty years of history

1617
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Speaker 1: that made the American Revolution possible. And this is what

1618
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:13,520
Speaker 1: you're going to learn while you go through Hillsdale's free courses,

1619
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,760
Speaker 1: all right, And you have to understand this is a

1620
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:21,439
Speaker 1: brand new six part documentary series. Hillsdale College professors do

1621
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:26,800
Speaker 1: teach you the religions, politics, culture, and economic ideas that

1622
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Speaker 1: shaped a uniquely American culture during our colonial period. And

1623
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Speaker 1: you're going to learn all kinds of incredible things about

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Speaker 1: the idea of liberty, right, especially religious liberty, and what

1625
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Speaker 1: this inspired the settlers of America to cross the Atlantic.

1626
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Speaker 1: There's all different kinds of things you're going to learn.

1627
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Speaker 1: You're going to learn about how the local governments and

1628
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Speaker 1: how they ruled and protected themselves. You're going to learn

1629
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Speaker 1: about why we're so virtuous, why the country use virtue

1630
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 1: as this component which leads to peace, you know. And

1631
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 1: then you're also going to learn about the beginning of

1632
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 1: America as its nation, right, And.

1633
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:16,040
Speaker 2: What Hillsdale Professor's focus on is really.

1634
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: Kind of the idea of forging the American character, right,

1635
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,440
Speaker 1: and that's where we come from, the virtue, the ideas

1636
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 1: that led to our American character, which was the cornerstone

1637
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 1: of what made the revolution possible, right all right, now, again,

1638
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1640
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1641
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1642
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Speaker 1: Hillsdale not only offers this incredible course, but forty other

1643
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Speaker 1: free online courses, including courses on C. S. Lewis the

1644
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1645
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Speaker 1: of the Roman Republic, and you can go even deeper

1646
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Speaker 1: on the American foundation in the Constitution. And by the way,

1647
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1648
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Speaker 1: enroll for free today.

1653
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 2: Go get it done. Thank you, Hillsdale, Love you. All right,

1654
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:29,040
Speaker 2: take us.

1655
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 1: Through going over you know, the few weeks leading up

1656
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 1: to where you got injured, and then walk us through

1657
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 1: that experience if you could.

1658
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we were.

1659
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:42,640
Speaker 3: We were in the Triangle of Death there near iskandarea

1660
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 3: and Musaib just south of Baghdad, doing a lot of

1661
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 3: work on the main highway, highway one that runs between

1662
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 3: Vasra and Baghdad, and doing a lot of I D

1663
01:29:55,439 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 3: counter ied E stuff like that, and so the I

1664
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 3: was getting pretty good at being outside the wire because

1665
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 3: I was a Ford observer. I had had one combat

1666
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 3: deployment under my belt, and the lieutenant liked to have

1667
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 3: me around because I could fix the radio, you know,

1668
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 3: and I knew how to talk on it. So like

1669
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,639
Speaker 3: he kept me out there as much as he could.

1670
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 3: And we were doing patrol based stuff. And then as

1671
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 3: we were starting to step off, we were actually had

1672
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 3: we had National Guard unit there, the advanced party was there.

1673
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,679
Speaker 3: We were getting already hand off, so we were doing

1674
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 3: like joint patrols with these National Guard guys, telling them, hey,

1675
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 3: this is a bad alley, this is a bad street,

1676
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:38,840
Speaker 3: doing that stuff. And I was spending more time on

1677
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 3: the fob at this point. And this fob iscandarea for

1678
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:45,000
Speaker 3: an operating basis which was on a power plant right

1679
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 3: on the Euphrates River, and we got mortered there probably

1680
01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 3: twice a week the whole time we were there, so

1681
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 3: we got very complacent, unfortunately with the mortar attacks.

1682
01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:56,920
Speaker 2: And so I was.

1683
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:01,719
Speaker 3: On the fob and our tents had a hesto barriers

1684
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 3: around them, and essentially what I was doing was I

1685
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:08,479
Speaker 3: was getting ready to come home, so I was done

1686
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 3: off the highway. We weren't at a patrol base in town.

1687
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 3: We were on the fob, just kind of doing security

1688
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 3: or in and around the fob, and I was working

1689
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 3: out at the gym, bulking up to come home, actually

1690
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 3: trying to put back on some muscle mass. So when

1691
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:25,640
Speaker 3: I came home, the wife would get pressed, right, and

1692
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 3: so like I was spending you know, an hour in

1693
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 3: the little base gym they had there at the fob,

1694
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 3: which wasn't it wasn't fancy or anything, but you know,

1695
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,640
Speaker 3: marines like we're gonna find stuff to lift heavy and

1696
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 3: grunt and do all that stuff. And then one day

1697
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 3: we got hit with a mortar attack right on top

1698
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:46,800
Speaker 3: of us, and I initially thought it was outgoing. So

1699
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:49,640
Speaker 3: we were kitty corner from the artillery pause, and I

1700
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:53,160
Speaker 3: thought they were shooting just outgoing, which happened as well,

1701
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 3: you know. And so that's when I was hit with

1702
01:31:57,000 --> 01:31:58,559
Speaker 3: that mortar inside the tent.

1703
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 2: It was midday and I had just got off the

1704
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 2: phone from because we had phone banks on that fob

1705
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:06,599
Speaker 2: as well. I had just got off the phone with

1706
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 2: my wife.

1707
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:13,040
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So literally you hang up like you turn around,

1708
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 1: detonates and then what'd you take? It was just shrapmill?

1709
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:19,960
Speaker 1: Did you did you get hit by the blast?

1710
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,639
Speaker 3: What I was I was back in the tent napping

1711
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 3: when it hit. I was probably like twenty thirty minutes

1712
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 3: after the phone conversation, and I was getting ready, I

1713
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,080
Speaker 3: was taken. I was on rack ops to do night

1714
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:34,639
Speaker 3: patrols around the fob, right, so I'm getting my sleep

1715
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 3: in now. And so I was racked out, just in

1716
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 3: my skivvy shorts, all my stuff right next to me,

1717
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:43,559
Speaker 3: and we had the red like they were like ten

1718
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 3: metal racks that were in in and the plywood floors

1719
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 3: and the white tents that they would soak in with

1720
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 3: kerosene to keep the dust out as well. Yeah, yeah,

1721
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,479
Speaker 3: and then we had these uh uh like LG air

1722
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,400
Speaker 3: conditioning units that they put on boards and up and

1723
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 3: put in the tents, which were decent. But yeah, the

1724
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 3: incoming came and it hit across the street first, and

1725
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 3: so it woke me up. And then my sergeant from

1726
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 3: my fire support team came in the tent and he

1727
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:16,280
Speaker 3: just told everybody, Hey, they're right on top of us.

1728
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 3: Get in the bunkers if you can. I rolled out

1729
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 3: of the rack and had done just enough time to

1730
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 3: grab a flak and the kevlar and kind of pull

1731
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 3: it over the top of me. And then it just

1732
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:29,000
Speaker 3: felt like I got.

1733
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 2: Hit with a semi truck. After that, Wow, And I

1734
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:32,919
Speaker 2: was out.

1735
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:36,719
Speaker 3: For at least at least a minute, and I came

1736
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 3: to and I don't really know how I first got

1737
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:41,719
Speaker 3: initially on my feet, but I was on my feet

1738
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:42,799
Speaker 3: and I was on fire.

1739
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:48,599
Speaker 2: So this left side was on fire, my whole left side.

1740
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:50,759
Speaker 3: And my sergeant was putting me out with his hands

1741
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:53,479
Speaker 3: and he just he said, she said to me, stop

1742
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 3: dropping roll as we were next to the tent hatch,

1743
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,519
Speaker 3: and so I stopped, dropped, rolled out the tent hatch,

1744
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:01,680
Speaker 3: rolled myself out, and I was still in a lot

1745
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 3: of shock at that point. So I had taken shrapnel.

1746
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 3: I had a collapse right long. This arm is fused fully,

1747
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:10,040
Speaker 3: so like it was kind of just hanging there.

1748
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I had.

1749
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 3: Blown it kind of out, like I'm missing like twenty

1750
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 3: percent of the elbow joint that's now just kind of

1751
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 3: like a matted bunch of a bone. And so I

1752
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:22,840
Speaker 3: was there in the tent kind of bleeding out and

1753
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 3: dying at that moment in time, and still in shock.

1754
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:28,479
Speaker 3: And my sergeant, who was hit but not as severely

1755
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 3: as me, he was able to run and go to

1756
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,760
Speaker 3: the talk or the headquarters right and he takes off

1757
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 3: that direction towards a building when we're in a tense city.

1758
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:41,000
Speaker 3: So we're intense, that are in a row right before

1759
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 3: everybody understands I know you understand, David, but like we're intense,

1760
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:46,559
Speaker 3: and they have these hescal barriers around us, and the

1761
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 3: mortar actually hit the top of the heschal barrier of

1762
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 3: my tan, so I was definitely within. There was one

1763
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:57,320
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty millimeter mortar. Oh God, which this this

1764
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 3: is morbid joke. I tell everybody I have a mortar trifecta, David,

1765
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:05,200
Speaker 3: because I fired eighty one's on my first deployment in

1766
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,799
Speaker 3: the Battle of Azuri. I fired sixties on that second

1767
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 3: performament at a mosque actually off the campa, and then

1768
01:35:12,479 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 3: I got hit with the one twenty, So I got

1769
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:15,360
Speaker 3: the trifecta.

1770
01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 2: Obmutely.

1771
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:20,720
Speaker 1: I would have liked if you had been on an

1772
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 1: artillery unit for the third going out, but I guess

1773
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 1: take taking one is definitely put you at the top

1774
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 1: of that list. Brother, good God, all right, tell me

1775
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:36,799
Speaker 1: about uh getting treated Tree Hodge, the medics that saved

1776
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:37,360
Speaker 1: your life.

1777
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:38,639
Speaker 2: Tell me about those guys.

1778
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:40,840
Speaker 3: And so I was behind that tent and it was

1779
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:44,040
Speaker 3: just me by myself there. I come to my feet

1780
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 3: I pull I remember pulling myself up on the wire

1781
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:49,160
Speaker 3: of the Hesco barrier and walking to the next tent

1782
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:52,720
Speaker 3: over in the in the row there and there I

1783
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:55,320
Speaker 3: actually did lay down on a rack and I started

1784
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:58,640
Speaker 3: saying prayers. I started praying. I like I said, I

1785
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 3: was a Catholic kid, grew up and saw Lake City.

1786
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:04,839
Speaker 3: I started saying prayers. I was taught then. And then

1787
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:08,760
Speaker 3: that's when the shock trying of like went away completely.

1788
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:10,880
Speaker 3: I was in pain at that point in time, like

1789
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 3: the shock hadn't mitigated the pain. But that's when the

1790
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,599
Speaker 3: shock kind of like went away, and just something came

1791
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 3: over me that said, you're not dead. Go get out

1792
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:22,759
Speaker 3: of this tent. That's going to be on fire.

1793
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 2: Soon.

1794
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 3: That tent burned down too, and so I walked out,

1795
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:28,519
Speaker 3: and when I was walking on the bottom of my feet,

1796
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 3: the skin was peeling off on the plywood floorboard, and

1797
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 3: I remember that just being the most painful part of

1798
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 3: that experience. And I walk out the front of that

1799
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 3: tent hatch and my first sergeant is there in kit

1800
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 3: in in kevlar flak, and he's looking at me and

1801
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 3: in shorts, and his first instinct he told me this

1802
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:50,960
Speaker 3: when I was in the hospital he came visiting. My

1803
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:54,120
Speaker 3: first instinct was to chew your ass out, you know, because.

1804
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:54,880
Speaker 2: You're not in your gear.

1805
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,720
Speaker 3: And then he did a double take on me and

1806
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 3: realized skin was falling off on my body. They did,

1807
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:05,559
Speaker 3: they called like the chair carry him, and Orman did

1808
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:08,000
Speaker 3: the chair carry. It felt like they threw me in

1809
01:37:08,040 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 3: the back of the humby pretty rough, but you know,

1810
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 3: no whatever, we needed to get me to help. And

1811
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 3: so I remember riding in the humbie and telling my

1812
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:18,640
Speaker 3: first sergeant and first start wooting. If you're listening, I

1813
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:22,759
Speaker 3: love you, brother, and he was telling me you're gonna

1814
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 3: make it. You're gonna be okay. And I was just

1815
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 3: telling him, just tell my son, I love him, Tell

1816
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 3: my son, I'm proud of him, you know, and he's

1817
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:31,719
Speaker 3: just he was calming me down, yeah, and.

1818
01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 2: As a good leader should.

1819
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:36,519
Speaker 3: And he probably didn't have any clue, you know, he

1820
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:38,479
Speaker 3: didn't know if I was gonna make it or not.

1821
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:40,680
Speaker 3: He didn't know about the Golden Hour, he didn't know

1822
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:43,800
Speaker 3: about the cash and the hospital opened Bagdad and all

1823
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:47,920
Speaker 3: those amazing people who did save my life surgery after surgery,

1824
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 3: after this, you know, but I remember being rushed to

1825
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 3: the fob kind of aid station there, and that's when

1826
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:57,439
Speaker 3: they put the tinfoil blanket over me and they gave

1827
01:37:57,479 --> 01:37:58,759
Speaker 3: me my first shot of morphine.

1828
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 2: And I really down after that, and I.

1829
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 3: Was just kind of like listening to the radio, like, Hey,

1830
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 3: where's the helicopter at Doc? And Doc's just kind of dude,

1831
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 3: you're wild, you know, like you're crazy, dude, Like I

1832
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 3: hope you make it grift, like you know. And so

1833
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:16,799
Speaker 3: I remember being pulled on the stretcher and the helicopter landing.

1834
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:19,679
Speaker 3: They loaded us into that thing, and I remember flying

1835
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 3: up to Baghdad and the crew chief was really good

1836
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:25,640
Speaker 3: to me because I I wanted to see Baghdad. So

1837
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:28,879
Speaker 3: because I'd always been in the South for my two deployments,

1838
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:31,559
Speaker 3: I never actually got up to the Bagdad and there

1839
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 3: was always the stories of the Green Zone and all

1840
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 3: this other stuff, and guys would get you know, hey,

1841
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:39,760
Speaker 3: we need twelve marines to go be security for this

1842
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:42,000
Speaker 3: convoy to Bagdad, and I'm like, oh, I want to

1843
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:44,479
Speaker 3: go in. The Lieutenant's like no, my Artsyo staying here

1844
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:44,720
Speaker 3: with me.

1845
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:46,639
Speaker 2: You know, he's not going anywhere.

1846
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 3: And the one time I actually did get to kind

1847
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:50,080
Speaker 3: of maybe possibly go.

1848
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:51,599
Speaker 2: It got canceled, of course, and.

1849
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:53,679
Speaker 3: I sat slat in the back of a seven coron

1850
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:57,320
Speaker 3: on the file and so like he's sitting there calling

1851
01:38:57,320 --> 01:39:00,559
Speaker 3: out minutes, you know, five minutes, three minutes, two minutes,

1852
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:02,760
Speaker 3: and then I look up and he just kind of

1853
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:04,840
Speaker 3: looks at me, and he's like he moves out the

1854
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 3: way and he goes, that's what you want to look.

1855
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:09,240
Speaker 3: And it's the dome, you know, and across swords and stuff,

1856
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 3: and I'm like, thanks, I'm jack.

1857
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:14,559
Speaker 2: I almost had to die to see it, but I'm here.

1858
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 2: I'm good.

1859
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:19,720
Speaker 3: And then they landed and carried me into that hospital.

1860
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 3: I remember that, and they asked me, you know, name,

1861
01:39:22,479 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 3: ranked blood type, and I was out after that they

1862
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 3: used Yeah, I was induced for twelve days, I think twelve,

1863
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:34,320
Speaker 3: my god, and I woke up at Brooke Army Medical

1864
01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:37,800
Speaker 3: Center in San Antonio, Texas. But I had been transplanted,

1865
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:41,959
Speaker 3: transported from Baghdad through Germany, through.

1866
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 2: Bethesda, and then to San Antonio.

1867
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:47,720
Speaker 1: All right, look, how many surgeries did you get in

1868
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:50,880
Speaker 1: bag Dad? Did you get any in Germany? And then

1869
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:53,759
Speaker 1: how many in in in uh San Antonio?

1870
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:59,599
Speaker 3: So twenty seven total is what I call definitely, about

1871
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 3: half doesn't life saving ones. They're in Baghdad, where off

1872
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 3: for a minute, and they so I have a spa

1873
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 3: right here, which is called a cardiac window where they

1874
01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:12,240
Speaker 3: drill a hole and then they start your heart directly

1875
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,479
Speaker 3: with the stuff right on top of the heart. So ye,

1876
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:20,639
Speaker 3: lots of good people in that system. That saved my butt.

1877
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:23,080
Speaker 3: And I never even got to thank him, you know,

1878
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:26,679
Speaker 3: because they I was in a coma. And so then

1879
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:27,919
Speaker 3: a few.

1880
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:32,080
Speaker 2: More surgeries in Germany. There's really like stabilization stuff for

1881
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:36,280
Speaker 2: the travel. Yeah, and then like twenty and Burka Medical Center.

1882
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:40,760
Speaker 3: Most mostly that was with the arm. They did a

1883
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 3: couple of these. A Colonel Hidach down there. I don't

1884
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:45,880
Speaker 3: know if he's you know, I don't keep travling him,

1885
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 3: but he was a great orthopedic experiencon down there. I

1886
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:51,360
Speaker 3: got a great story with him. And then a lot

1887
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 3: of the burn scars was handled as well. So I'm

1888
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:58,960
Speaker 3: burned and about thirty two, about half of that is

1889
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:02,120
Speaker 3: what they call full thickness, which is down my lower

1890
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:05,840
Speaker 3: extremity on my left side. The calf got burnt off

1891
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 3: to like all the flesh all the way. That's what

1892
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:16,559
Speaker 3: full thickness, So yeah, yeahness which is being burned to

1893
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,360
Speaker 3: the bone, and so like about fifteen percent of my

1894
01:41:19,479 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 3: lower extremity, well my lower extremity, about fifteen percent of

1895
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:24,720
Speaker 3: my body had that. And so that's what they took

1896
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 3: care of at brog Army Medical Center. And like I said,

1897
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:31,600
Speaker 3: the orthopedics there great people there as well. You know,

1898
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:33,200
Speaker 3: I got to see my son the first time.

1899
01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:37,439
Speaker 1: Was So that's the whole other thing that I has

1900
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:40,760
Speaker 1: been just going through my mind, is you get hit,

1901
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 1: how soon does your wife find out where was she

1902
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 1: in the pregnancy? And then you know that reunion when

1903
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 1: you came out of the coma.

1904
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:53,760
Speaker 2: Just describe that a little bit for us.

1905
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 3: So my son was born November and I was wounded January,

1906
01:41:57,320 --> 01:41:59,840
Speaker 3: so he was born November when I was there, and

1907
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:02,680
Speaker 3: I vividly remember it because I got the word and

1908
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 3: I smoked cigars with my boys on the checkpoint on

1909
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:10,280
Speaker 3: Tampa and then she was told she was actually she

1910
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 3: was at Campbell June. So she was getting ready for

1911
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:15,200
Speaker 3: me to come back because we were like it was

1912
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:17,639
Speaker 3: like a week left, you know, And so we were

1913
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 3: preparing to live to a married couple off base next

1914
01:42:22,280 --> 01:42:24,559
Speaker 3: door to our friends who were also going to live

1915
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 3: off base next to us, and so she was preparing.

1916
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,800
Speaker 3: She was actually at the Dollar General there in Jacksonville,

1917
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 3: North Carolina, with her best friend, my buddy's wife at

1918
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:38,360
Speaker 3: the time. Grateful she was with her because she did

1919
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:43,040
Speaker 3: get the call and it was hard for her to

1920
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,680
Speaker 3: take and so she was grateful. And my son was

1921
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:48,400
Speaker 3: already he was like two three months old, and so

1922
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:51,000
Speaker 3: she was able to give my son to her best

1923
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:54,280
Speaker 3: friend and kind of just handle that that she was

1924
01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:58,240
Speaker 3: being told by the officers at that point in time.

1925
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 3: And that's when things really started moving for her.

1926
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:02,960
Speaker 2: Uh you know.

1927
01:43:03,080 --> 01:43:05,439
Speaker 3: She she had never flown a whole lot, and then

1928
01:43:05,479 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 3: she was gonna fly from Chicago to San Antonio and

1929
01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:12,120
Speaker 3: with a three month old baby, you know. And and

1930
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,000
Speaker 3: so she she was getting flown to where I was

1931
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 3: going to be at and handled them that way, and

1932
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 3: so was my father. My father got very close in

1933
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:27,400
Speaker 3: that moment, so he had he had My cousin was

1934
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:29,719
Speaker 3: actually in the Marine Corps at the time.

1935
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 2: He was in Ramadi.

1936
01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 3: He was a lieutenant colonel, and he was telling my

1937
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 3: father stuff he wasn't really supposed to be telling him

1938
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 3: at the time, and so my dad was very well

1939
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:42,960
Speaker 3: prepared and he kind of, I don't want to say

1940
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:45,000
Speaker 3: feather to nest, but he made sure my wife was

1941
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:45,720
Speaker 3: taken care of.

1942
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:47,719
Speaker 2: That's awesome, and.

1943
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:51,360
Speaker 3: So that that's how she her. Her route kind of

1944
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:54,880
Speaker 3: was chaotic with that, but everyone wanted to help her,

1945
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 3: and there was we had a very close knit community

1946
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:00,760
Speaker 3: around us. But she was in campus June. My son

1947
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,400
Speaker 3: was three months old. You know, we were getting ready

1948
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:06,840
Speaker 3: for a big homecoming, and uh it was a big homecoming,

1949
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:08,120
Speaker 3: just not the one we planned.

1950
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 2: No, I can't imagine what that's like.

1951
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:15,280
Speaker 1: You know, obviously I've I've had a lot of friends

1952
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:18,200
Speaker 1: that have gotten busted up pretty good and and a

1953
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 1: bunch that are dead.

1954
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 2: But it's that, you know, it's the what is it?

1955
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 2: It's the reality of.

1956
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:36,360
Speaker 1: It's the reality of how fragile life is, right.

1957
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 2: And that you can't deny it. You have to live

1958
01:44:38,840 --> 01:44:41,720
Speaker 2: in it, you have to sit in it. And and

1959
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:45,280
Speaker 2: then especially for your wife, here she is showing up

1960
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:48,639
Speaker 2: at your bedside and you've got a recovery. I mean,

1961
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:50,559
Speaker 2: this is not gonna be quick.

1962
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:53,519
Speaker 1: It's not like and you're gonna have permanent, you know,

1963
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:59,439
Speaker 1: challenges basically, So it's like processing all of that together.

1964
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 1: What were the ways that your family worked together to

1965
01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:07,559
Speaker 1: get through that, to help you get through it, and

1966
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:08,960
Speaker 1: that the military helped you.

1967
01:45:10,160 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the military they did an excellent job of getting.

1968
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:18,800
Speaker 2: Me alive and home and then.

1969
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 3: Extended because I was at the end of my four

1970
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:26,479
Speaker 3: year contract actually, so they extended my contract so I

1971
01:45:26,479 --> 01:45:30,200
Speaker 3: could finish my PTEAM, my physical therapy and stuff. And

1972
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 3: Brooke Army Brooke Army Medical Center is actually it's probably

1973
01:45:35,360 --> 01:45:36,599
Speaker 3: the best military hospital.

1974
01:45:36,680 --> 01:45:38,680
Speaker 2: But maybe I'm biased, you know what I'm saying. Oh,

1975
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:41,720
Speaker 2: I agree, They're phenomenal absolutely down there.

1976
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 3: So I can't have enough good things to say about

1977
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:46,200
Speaker 3: the people down there and everything that they did.

1978
01:45:46,520 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 2: They were very kind to my.

1979
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:52,400
Speaker 3: Wife, you know, and it's a functioning army base down

1980
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 3: there as well. And so back then too, in two

1981
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:59,439
Speaker 3: thousand and five, there was a lot of attention being

1982
01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:02,840
Speaker 3: erected towards us, you know, and so so my wife,

1983
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:07,000
Speaker 3: who had kind of not been you know, she wasn't

1984
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 3: the homecoming queen or anything like that. She wasn't really

1985
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:15,519
Speaker 3: suited to take the attention. She she kind of passed

1986
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:19,080
Speaker 3: the buck onto my dad, who handled it very well.

1987
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:20,680
Speaker 2: And could be like, hey, it's time to go.

1988
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:23,360
Speaker 3: These people need their privacy, and he kind of just

1989
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:28,719
Speaker 3: became that gatekeeper to her, taking care of my son

1990
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:32,080
Speaker 3: and also taking care of me and herself.

1991
01:46:32,240 --> 01:46:33,599
Speaker 2: You know, because that's big too.

1992
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:38,479
Speaker 1: I mean, here, you you've committed to this other person

1993
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:41,760
Speaker 1: and now there you don't know what the future.

1994
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 2: Is going to be with them in your health.

1995
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:46,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's all these unknowns that are

1996
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 1: really the profound impacts of war, you know, is is

1997
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:54,839
Speaker 1: you know, yes, it's the deployments, it's the training cycles,

1998
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:58,040
Speaker 1: but it's the real impacts of war. It's being injured,

1999
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:01,479
Speaker 1: you know, in an almost catastrophe like way. It's it's

2000
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:05,120
Speaker 1: coming around from that, managing that, and then and then

2001
01:47:05,160 --> 01:47:08,760
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, what's next with my life? So

2002
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:12,760
Speaker 1: how did you guys make that decision? What what was

2003
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:16,880
Speaker 1: the process of going all right, that's enough, I'm done,

2004
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 1: and and now we're gonna go move here, we're gonna

2005
01:47:20,439 --> 01:47:25,200
Speaker 1: do this and and then start living life. Post Marine

2006
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:27,519
Speaker 1: Corps describe a little bit of that for us.

2007
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:32,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so in the hospital there, she she really did

2008
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:35,880
Speaker 3: take lead and taking care of the family, and it

2009
01:47:35,960 --> 01:47:38,519
Speaker 3: was just like my job just to heal, and so

2010
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:42,519
Speaker 3: she she continued to lead in that that regard, you know,

2011
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:46,120
Speaker 3: and like you're saying the cost of war, and not

2012
01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:48,559
Speaker 3: to toot my wife's horn, but it should be tootored

2013
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:53,160
Speaker 3: a little bit because she she was wrapping bandages over

2014
01:47:53,200 --> 01:47:56,599
Speaker 3: my burn scars from war, and she she paid very

2015
01:47:56,640 --> 01:47:59,679
Speaker 3: close attention on how to do that because the doctors

2016
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:01,599
Speaker 3: were like, hey, you can't do this wrong because this

2017
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:02,759
Speaker 3: could cause an infection.

2018
01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:06,560
Speaker 2: And she was very, very close and very.

2019
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:08,719
Speaker 3: Intense with making sure I was going to be able

2020
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:11,960
Speaker 3: to heal appropriately when she never signed up for any

2021
01:48:11,960 --> 01:48:12,639
Speaker 3: of that, right.

2022
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:13,920
Speaker 2: And so.

2023
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,719
Speaker 3: Me being from Utah, I I was thinking, well, maybe

2024
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:20,880
Speaker 3: we go back to Salt Lake, but I didn't really

2025
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 3: want to. Like one of the things that attracted me

2026
01:48:23,160 --> 01:48:26,120
Speaker 3: to the Marine Corps was bases were in California and

2027
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:27,439
Speaker 3: North Carolina or Hawaii.

2028
01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:29,559
Speaker 2: They weren't in winter states, right.

2029
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:33,559
Speaker 3: And so my wife was from Florida, Pensacola, and she

2030
01:48:33,560 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 3: had been so good to me. I kind of thought, well,

2031
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 3: let's let's lean into this and let's move to Pensacola

2032
01:48:39,479 --> 01:48:44,400
Speaker 3: near her family, you know. And it worked out well

2033
01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 3: because her family was very like they're clued in on

2034
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:49,719
Speaker 3: the game, right, Like they're they live in and around

2035
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:52,920
Speaker 3: Pensacola Naval Air Station, so they they're they're not like

2036
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:58,639
Speaker 3: foreign to military stuff at all. And so I also

2037
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:02,200
Speaker 3: was I was on I wasn't ever on the fence.

2038
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:05,639
Speaker 3: I'm on the fence of It's maybe my biggest regret, David,

2039
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 3: is that I didn't try harder to stay in the

2040
01:49:08,439 --> 01:49:11,599
Speaker 3: military in doing a job that I could do because

2041
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:14,559
Speaker 3: I was offered those things. I was told, hey, we'll

2042
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:17,040
Speaker 3: find a place for you. The Marine Corps still values you.

2043
01:49:17,400 --> 01:49:19,920
Speaker 3: We'll find a place for you. And I told those people, well,

2044
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:23,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to college. And I could have

2045
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,200
Speaker 3: went to college whenever. You know, That's it's one of

2046
01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:28,200
Speaker 3: my things I tell I tell my my family and

2047
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:30,519
Speaker 3: my friends. It's like I I kind of wish I

2048
01:49:30,520 --> 01:49:33,840
Speaker 3: would have been like, no, wait, this isn't done yet,

2049
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,120
Speaker 3: or if you're not done here, you can go to

2050
01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:39,200
Speaker 3: college whenever. And so that was part of my decision

2051
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:42,000
Speaker 3: making process too, was like, hey, there's a nice college

2052
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:44,800
Speaker 3: down there in Pensacola. I have in laws and a

2053
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:47,960
Speaker 3: wife and this new life, and so I'm gonna lean

2054
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:51,000
Speaker 3: into that part of this and kind of close that

2055
01:49:51,080 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 3: chapter of the Marine Corps, which, like I said, it's

2056
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:56,599
Speaker 3: probably my biggest regret.

2057
01:49:57,320 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I feel a lot of that too,

2058
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:03,200
Speaker 1: Like I I ended before, I think I should have ended,

2059
01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:05,559
Speaker 1: and yeah, I battled that. That's why I kind of

2060
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:08,400
Speaker 1: chased it with Blackwater and the agency after and all

2061
01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:12,840
Speaker 1: that for sure, But you know, as a kid, you're

2062
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:16,840
Speaker 1: so young and you're not sure, and you know you

2063
01:50:17,080 --> 01:50:19,160
Speaker 1: just like, well, I got to make the right decision

2064
01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:19,680
Speaker 1: for my.

2065
01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:22,080
Speaker 2: Wife and kid, and so you do that.

2066
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:27,080
Speaker 1: Talk to talk to me a little bit about your transition,

2067
01:50:27,760 --> 01:50:30,840
Speaker 1: because obviously that regret in there a little bit. What

2068
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:33,640
Speaker 1: was that like and how long did it take you

2069
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:36,800
Speaker 1: to get to where you're like, Nope, I'm good, that's

2070
01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:41,240
Speaker 1: that's my past. That's good. I'm proud I did the

2071
01:50:41,320 --> 01:50:43,920
Speaker 1: right thing. I mean, you're four and a half, your

2072
01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:48,280
Speaker 1: five years in the military. It's probably some of the

2073
01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: heaviest things I've heard. I mean, there was no waiting

2074
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:54,720
Speaker 1: around to get after it. Man, you got into it,

2075
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:57,759
Speaker 1: and you got into it quick. And so how long

2076
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:00,200
Speaker 1: did it take to get to that place where you're like,

2077
01:51:00,280 --> 01:51:03,519
Speaker 1: all right, I'm ready to move into this next full

2078
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 1: chapter of my life?

2079
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 2: Oh uh? Well last he was years. It was years.

2080
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 2: It was years.

2081
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:16,679
Speaker 3: So I really did lean into like the college and

2082
01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:19,160
Speaker 3: and thinking, Okay, I'm going to be a college student now.

2083
01:51:20,200 --> 01:51:23,080
Speaker 2: And when I was wounded, I was. I was.

2084
01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:26,360
Speaker 3: It wasn't a moral wound, but it was a mental

2085
01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:29,320
Speaker 3: wound to a certain extent too, where I thought, I'm

2086
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:32,360
Speaker 3: not this infantry gun ho guy that I was, and

2087
01:51:32,439 --> 01:51:36,879
Speaker 3: my physicality suffered because of it. I did not invest

2088
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:40,160
Speaker 3: in my own health and my own physicality like I

2089
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:42,479
Speaker 3: thought I should have, or like I think I should

2090
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:44,680
Speaker 3: have now, Like I regret that part a little bit too,

2091
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,800
Speaker 3: and not being as physically fit as I possibly could

2092
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:50,679
Speaker 3: have been as a as a wounded guy in those

2093
01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:53,280
Speaker 3: first couple of years, you know. And I struggled with

2094
01:51:53,320 --> 01:51:55,639
Speaker 3: that for a minute. You know, I gained a lot

2095
01:51:55,680 --> 01:51:58,599
Speaker 3: of weight, I started drinking heavily. I was in a

2096
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:03,400
Speaker 3: college environment. Marriage troubles cropped up, you know what I'm saying.

2097
01:52:03,560 --> 01:52:06,320
Speaker 3: And I went through all of that. So I mean

2098
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:11,599
Speaker 3: I wasn't So I gave myself to Jesus in twenty twelve.

2099
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:16,439
Speaker 3: That's probably where I actually came to full realization, like, hey,

2100
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:19,280
Speaker 3: you need to put this in the past and you're

2101
01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:20,040
Speaker 3: a new person.

2102
01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 2: You're the same person, but like you know, you have

2103
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:26,559
Speaker 2: the experiences. But what got you don't want to be saved?

2104
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:27,559
Speaker 2: What was the thing?

2105
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:28,479
Speaker 4: Uh?

2106
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,439
Speaker 3: So I grew up Catholic, and I was always still

2107
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:36,599
Speaker 3: I was kind of dogmatic Christian, you know, as a Catholic,

2108
01:52:37,240 --> 01:52:39,760
Speaker 3: and I was living in Pensacola, which is a very

2109
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 3: different kind of culture down there, and so my son's

2110
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:47,280
Speaker 3: kindergarten teacher had actually invited us to go to a

2111
01:52:47,320 --> 01:52:51,559
Speaker 3: Baptist church. And I started. I was I was reading

2112
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:54,080
Speaker 3: and I was studying history. I first started one. I

2113
01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:57,559
Speaker 3: first wanted electrical engineering, which was not what I should

2114
01:52:57,600 --> 01:53:00,800
Speaker 3: have been doing, and then I chose history. And then

2115
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 3: I found religion in kind of a more scholastic sense

2116
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 3: too in that point where I was studying in college.

2117
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:12,160
Speaker 3: But also now this Bible study thing that's evangelical different

2118
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 3: from me was there. And so I made that decision

2119
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:19,760
Speaker 3: to get baptized in twenty twelve, actually after my wife did.

2120
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:23,000
Speaker 3: She was never baptized down there initially, and so she

2121
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:27,040
Speaker 3: stepped forward first and then I got baptized after that.

2122
01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:31,000
Speaker 3: In my heart, I think I really chose to be

2123
01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:33,640
Speaker 3: a follower of Jesus a long time ago, you know,

2124
01:53:33,680 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 3: when I was a child, probably, but we all ebb

2125
01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:40,639
Speaker 3: and flow right a little bit, and I chased war,

2126
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:42,880
Speaker 3: you know, and I chased that to a certain extent.

2127
01:53:43,720 --> 01:53:46,559
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I wanted to be a better man

2128
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 3: for my wife and my son, and I seen, like

2129
01:53:51,080 --> 01:53:54,639
Speaker 3: we talked about earlier, imitating these better men, whether they're

2130
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:57,639
Speaker 3: gunnery startants in the Marine Corps or whether deacons at

2131
01:53:57,640 --> 01:53:58,680
Speaker 3: the Baptist.

2132
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:01,000
Speaker 2: Church Vietnam vetter and some of them. You know what

2133
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 2: I'm saying.

2134
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:04,680
Speaker 3: I see those guys, I go there's something there that

2135
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:07,760
Speaker 3: I'm missing, and that's when I chose to give my

2136
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:08,519
Speaker 3: life to Christ.

2137
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:09,320
Speaker 2: Dude.

2138
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:12,800
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, man, Thanks for sharing that. All right, Well,

2139
01:54:12,840 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: we'll wrap it up a little bit here. So last

2140
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:20,080
Speaker 1: two questions. Yeah, first and foremost, what is what are

2141
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:23,519
Speaker 1: some of the most significant significant things you took away

2142
01:54:24,040 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: from what the Marine Corps turned you into and shaped

2143
01:54:28,040 --> 01:54:30,800
Speaker 1: you into as a man. And then what are the

2144
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:35,120
Speaker 1: things you learned about that brotherhood and what makes it

2145
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:39,680
Speaker 1: so so so strong and so so much.

2146
01:54:39,600 --> 01:54:41,600
Speaker 2: A part of what the core is.

2147
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:46,600
Speaker 3: It's discipline, first of like, first and foremost marines have

2148
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:49,200
Speaker 3: to be disciplined to be a marine, you know, and

2149
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:52,920
Speaker 3: not giving up. Like if I get knocked down ten times,

2150
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:55,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to get up eleven, you know what I'm saying.

2151
01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:57,400
Speaker 3: So I'm going to get up every time until there's

2152
01:54:57,560 --> 01:55:00,600
Speaker 3: no more breath in my lungs. And literally had a

2153
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:02,920
Speaker 3: right line collapse, I still had a left one, and

2154
01:55:02,920 --> 01:55:05,320
Speaker 3: I'm still gonna get up. I'm still gonna do what

2155
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:07,160
Speaker 3: I need to do in m be in that fight.

2156
01:55:08,200 --> 01:55:11,160
Speaker 3: And so that that changed me a lot from I

2157
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:12,200
Speaker 3: even see in.

2158
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:14,760
Speaker 2: My peer group the kids I grew up with.

2159
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:18,000
Speaker 3: You know, and the men they are now. And I

2160
01:55:18,040 --> 01:55:20,320
Speaker 3: don't want to, like, you know, shame them in any ways.

2161
01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:22,960
Speaker 3: But I often told my wife, like, if I was

2162
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:26,400
Speaker 3: never a marine, I would never even talk to you know,

2163
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:29,680
Speaker 3: I would have never had that confidence in me doing

2164
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:32,120
Speaker 3: the things I need to do. And that's that discipline,

2165
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:35,240
Speaker 3: right when no one's watching, and then I can have

2166
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:39,120
Speaker 3: the confidence to put my name forward to hey, please

2167
01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:41,000
Speaker 3: have a baby with me and let's start a family

2168
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:43,120
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, or you know, whatever it is.

2169
01:55:43,200 --> 01:55:45,520
Speaker 3: Let me go to the college professor and be like, hey,

2170
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:47,480
Speaker 3: this paper is good. You read it, and e those

2171
01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:50,080
Speaker 3: in the trash and I can go write another one

2172
01:55:50,120 --> 01:55:52,440
Speaker 3: without being help or whatever.

2173
01:55:54,880 --> 01:56:00,360
Speaker 1: All right, last question, last question, Uh, what happens if

2174
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:02,760
Speaker 1: your son comes to you and says, Dad, I want

2175
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:03,520
Speaker 1: to be a marine.

2176
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:10,240
Speaker 3: I will encourage him to look at the army because

2177
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:14,400
Speaker 3: there's a lot more options, you know, for him, and

2178
01:56:14,640 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 3: I would be very proud if he chose any service

2179
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:21,480
Speaker 3: to me, blunt, and we've talked about the National Guard.

2180
01:56:21,560 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 3: He's talked about it a little bit with me. I

2181
01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:26,360
Speaker 3: think it's a great option for him if he wanted

2182
01:56:26,400 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 3: to do that. You know, my grandfather was Navy, my

2183
01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:32,040
Speaker 3: dad was Army. I was the Marine, and so if

2184
01:56:32,040 --> 01:56:33,840
Speaker 3: he went back to the Army, it wouldn't hurt my

2185
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:37,560
Speaker 3: feelings too much and we could keep our dollar bet

2186
01:56:37,600 --> 01:56:40,560
Speaker 3: we have on the Army Navy game going and stuff

2187
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:40,920
Speaker 3: like that.

2188
01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:45,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would be I would be overjoyed with pride. Pride.

2189
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 1: That's awesome, Uh, Griff, I can't thank you enough, man,

2190
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,879
Speaker 1: Quite honestly, it's one of my favorite interviews I've ever done.

2191
01:56:59,840 --> 01:57:04,400
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of them too, man, and I

2192
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 1: just I think you represent what the epitome of a

2193
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,040
Speaker 1: marine is. And I think the way you're able to

2194
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:18,320
Speaker 1: articulate not only your experiences, but the impact of what

2195
01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:21,840
Speaker 1: the Corps did for you, what it provided for you

2196
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 1: and your family, even though he almost got killed. It

2197
01:57:25,680 --> 01:57:29,520
Speaker 1: is an honorable way with which you represent the Marine Corps.

2198
01:57:29,880 --> 01:57:34,240
Speaker 1: And I'm just I'm really grateful that you were willing

2199
01:57:34,240 --> 01:57:36,120
Speaker 1: to come on and share your stories with us.

2200
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:38,360
Speaker 3: I appreciate it, David, and thank you so much for

2201
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:41,320
Speaker 3: the time. And I'm not perfect, you know, no one is.

2202
01:57:42,240 --> 01:57:44,160
Speaker 3: And can I plug my book real quick for it? Yeah,

2203
01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 3: one hundred percent Mormon Joe.

2204
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 2: It is available on Amazon.

2205
01:57:49,480 --> 01:57:52,680
Speaker 3: A really good veteran army guy, Vincent Bargas, turned me

2206
01:57:52,720 --> 01:57:56,120
Speaker 3: on to Amazon KDP. I got into writing when I

2207
01:57:56,160 --> 01:57:56,839
Speaker 3: was in college.

2208
01:57:57,880 --> 01:57:59,600
Speaker 2: This is this is really good.

2209
01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:01,600
Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time writing it, and I

2210
01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:03,960
Speaker 3: spent a lot of money getting it edited as well.

2211
01:58:04,160 --> 01:58:06,240
Speaker 2: And so please go check it out, go read it.

2212
01:58:06,240 --> 01:58:08,640
Speaker 3: It is not a memoir, but it is an Iraq

2213
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:12,480
Speaker 3: war story based on my experiences, and there might be

2214
01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:17,000
Speaker 3: some you know, transhumor in there for everybody. I enjoy it.

2215
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:18,880
Speaker 3: But thank you so much, David. Thank you for what

2216
01:58:18,880 --> 01:58:19,240
Speaker 3: you're doing.

2217
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:21,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, God bless you brother. Likewise,