1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: my name is no. 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 3: They call me Bed. We're joined as always with our 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mission Control Decads. Most importantly, you are you. 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 3: want you to know. As we are joining in media 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 3: arrests our exploration of the Eca Stones. We hope that 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 3: you listen to part one, and more importantly, please feel 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 3: free to toss us a review on Apple Podcast. Now 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 3: back to the show. This is a puzzle that feels 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: like it could be solvable right with the information we 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 3: have at hand. This seems like it's just a matter 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: of rearranging the pieces to form a coherent, a coherent 18 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 3: cognitive picture. But these are not the most well known things. 19 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 3: These are not the controversial ecostodes. They're two different buckets. 20 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 3: The ones we just talked about, the simplistic stuff, patterns, 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 3: easily identifiable motifs, and styles of depiction. Those things are understandable. 22 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 3: The controversial things. The things that most of archaeology at 23 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: large has a problem with today are the They're the 24 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 3: ones that have I don't want to say fanciful. You 25 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: could interpret them as depicting different species of dinosaur in detail, 26 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: with human like figures hanging out with them. There are 27 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: multiple instances of this, there are so many. There are 28 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 3: also multiple instances of advanced technology, apparently, and not just 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: like loose interpretations. Someone clearly drew a telescope, someone clearly 30 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 3: multiple times drew a flying machine. It is not up 31 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: for interpretation. There is no there is no material nor 32 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 3: folkloric precedent that would indicate this is a symbol of 33 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: a god or something. It's clearly somebody saw like a 34 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 3: plane of some sort and then popped it into a stone. 35 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 4: I see what you're saying, but I mean, you know, 36 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 4: you could argue, if we are still on the side 37 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 4: of like the zero authentic, that that kind of parallel 38 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 4: thinking happens outside of like the ability for technology to 39 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 4: create such a thing. You know, someone could be like, 40 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 4: we know what technology is, we know how to make 41 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 4: a tent. What if we just put that in the 42 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 4: sky and like you know, had it like a like 43 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 4: a sailing ship, but like in the sky with wings 44 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 4: like a bird. We certainly have examples of things out 45 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 4: of time like that. And I'm reading a Isaac Asimov 46 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 4: book from nineteen fifty right now. And I know this 47 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 4: is obvious for fans of science fiction, but I'm always 48 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 4: blown away by how close they get it in the fifties, 49 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 4: like of like what modern civilization looks like and what 50 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 4: technology of the future actually looked like. Some of them 51 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 4: really get it right, and it blows my mind. And 52 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I just had to had to bring that up. 53 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: That's a good point, man. I love it. I love it. 54 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 5: I love it. 55 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 3: Asthmav mentioned, I'm. 56 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 5: Reading the Foundation series. 57 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 4: I accidentally bought the second one out of sequence and 58 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 4: then realized that, and then I ordered the first one 59 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 4: and now I'm starting fresh. But I'm very excited because 60 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 4: I haven't I haven't. I'm not gonna lie, guys. I 61 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 4: haven't read a book in a hot minute, so I 62 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 4: will report. 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: Now, guys. We mentioned that some of these stone depict 64 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: also medical procedures, which is super puzzling in itself. One 65 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,839 Speaker 2: of the things that you may notice if you're ever 66 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: researching this stuff is that there tend to be records 67 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 2: of usually religious rights, sacrifices, funereal rights. When it comes 68 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 2: to cutting into a human body, like you'll see imagery 69 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: or writing about that, removing things from the body, putting 70 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: things on the body when you're going through one of 71 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: these rituals. But rarely do you see a medical procedure 72 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: or what would be described as a medical procedure in 73 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: the modern day. What are we seeing here? 74 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 3: I want to set up, Yeah, there is, for instance, 75 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: evidence of the practice of trepanation in some ancient cultures, right, 76 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: which is you know, if you've ever had a migraine, 77 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: you've thought about it, no judgment. And we also know 78 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 3: people did survive some of those procedures, not all of them, 79 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, not all of them. But to your point, Matt, 80 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: which is excellent set up. There, we see that there 81 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 3: are things interpreted as depictions of a cesarean operation, right, 82 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 3: a C section we call it. That's where when someone 83 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: is giving birth you have to conduct a surgical operation 84 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: to extract the child from the womb. And that happens 85 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 3: every day, every evening. And these are modern nights. But 86 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 3: in times where infant mortality was much higher, we know 87 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: that a lot of people died because that technology was 88 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: not or that process, that technique was not commonplace. So 89 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 3: if the ecostones as they appear to, if they indicate 90 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: that this was common knowledge for some empire, then that 91 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: is a game changer because that would show us that 92 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: this sophisticated medical procedure was discovered and then lost somewhere 93 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 3: in the sands of time, which is fascinating and quite possible. 94 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the modern cesarean section as we think about it, 95 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: goes back pretty far to the eight the late eighteen hundreds. 96 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: But still that if you could pull that off and 97 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: keep the mother alive and the baby alive in those 98 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 2: times with the tools available, at least known to be available, 99 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: it would be like magic. 100 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: No antibiotics, I mean, that's it's created. No germ theory anyway, 101 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: we know that. We know that by the time the 102 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 3: Spanish Empire arrived and met the Inca Empire, there was 103 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 3: not germ theory. So that is another question. To recap 104 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 3: what we have so far. Out in a rural Peruvian 105 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: cave or series of caves, there appears to be a 106 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: collection of stones not only functioning as a multi civilization 107 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: depiction of history unfamiliar to the modern world. But they 108 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: also appear to show that human beings interacted with creatures 109 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: who look a heck of a lot like dinosaurs and 110 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: possess technology and medical techniques far more sophisticated than anything 111 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: else we know about during that time. We're setting up 112 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: a lot of questions and we're going to get to them. 113 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: But first things first, how did these stones get discovered 114 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: in the first place? How do we even know about 115 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: them today? 116 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: You know, one thing we didn't mention is that some 117 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: of the depictions of human like creatures and dinosaur like 118 00:07:52,680 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: creatures were a little more familiar than just attacking them, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, 119 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,119 Speaker 2: like maybe some interbreeding of some sort. 120 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, there were giants in those days. The sons of 121 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: God saw the daughters of man and found them beautiful. Yeah, 122 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 3: there's beastiality. Let's just say it's fun. 123 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but in some of them. 124 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's there, it's it is undeniably graft that. 125 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 5: You know what. 126 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: That's one of the ones that's the least open to 127 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: interpretation there. 128 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 4: I mean, if you look at the image, I mean, 129 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 4: if you look at images of them printed, you know, 130 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 4: it's like there's a big old blurt out section, you know, 131 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: like with the bodies intertwine. 132 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh gosh, oh boy, Yeah, that part's true. And 133 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 3: that's actually uh going back to statement about the earlier 134 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 3: two buckets, that belongs to the the more simplistic ones, 135 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: the people banging animals, animals banging people, that's the more 136 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 3: simplistic stuff. That's not like the interestings work. 137 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 4: Well no, just the idea of animals banging people. And 138 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 4: just then there's an implication of agency there. 139 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 5: I know, but you know it can be done. Yeah, 140 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 5: they we know dolphins will just about anything. 141 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, especially if you give them enough LSD. 142 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 5: That story for another day, that actually is out there. 143 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 4: We've certainly discussed the the works of what is it Lily? 144 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we do know thes was triple the horny 145 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: that any other dinosaur was. Sorry, very good. 146 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 5: Impact right into that one. 147 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: Every palaeontologist in the audience tonight nodded, solemnly. 148 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 4: Threw up a little in their mouths. 149 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: Triceratops the horniest of the So how do we know 150 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 3: about these eco stones today? The story begins, this is weird. 151 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: The official story begins on May thirteenth, nineteen sixty six. 152 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 3: It starts with the story overall starts with two men. 153 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 3: There's a farmer in the Ika province in Peru. His 154 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 3: name is Basilo Lusha and a there's a physician son 155 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 3: of a Spanish aristocrat. His name is doctor Javier Cabrera d'arqua. 156 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 3: And according to the doctor Cabrea, he learns about the stones. 157 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: A little later in life. He has a friend of 158 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: photographer Felix Josa Romero, who gives him one of these 159 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: stones as a present for his forty second birthday. This 160 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: guy does not know. He doesn't know paleontology from m 161 00:10:54,720 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: Canna paint right. He is a physician's a good doctor, 162 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 3: and like a lot of very smart people, he has 163 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: a hobby. His hobby is Peruvian prehistory. 164 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, hey, thanks for that gift, man, 165 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: how'd you make this? Yeah? No, I'm just joking. 166 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 5: And then he's like, how dare you sir? 167 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: No, But he noticed some weird things specifically, and I 168 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: love that we're pointing this out. Specifically, a fish hanging 169 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: out with some humans that should have been gone way 170 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 2: before the humans would have even known that that thing existed. 171 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 4: Well, isn't that part of the weirdness, as some of 172 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 4: these depict creatures that just their timelines would not have 173 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 4: crossed in general. 174 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 5: Right, that's sort of the idea. 175 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, the so our good doctor 176 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: gets his gift. Here's forty second birthday. You know, he's 177 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 3: an eclectic guy, he's a renaissance man. And he says, 178 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: hang on, I you know, I'm an armchair historian. I 179 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 3: I've never I know enough about fish to know exactly 180 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 3: he called you out. Man, He's like, I know exactly 181 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 3: what No Brown's gonna say later. This fish would never 182 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 3: have been around in the time of the modern humans. 183 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, doctor Cabrera never explained specifically what particular fish 184 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: he believed this stone depicted. And I mean, I've looked. 185 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: Everywhere a rudimentary cave drawing esque style of a fish. 186 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 4: They've got a whole lot of discerning like like a stegosaurus. 187 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 4: That's a stegosaurus. But there was the fish that tipped 188 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 4: him off. I just I don't quite quite get that. 189 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: It was a come on, we're all whatever. 190 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 4: I don't It's a little specific, That's all I'm saying. 191 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, But also it doesn't start with the dinosaurs. It 192 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 3: starts with the fish, right, that's how it's like scientology. 193 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 3: That's how they get him in. They get him in 194 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: with psychic just off the far enough, and he says, 195 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 3: you know, we can only imagine. He goes back to 196 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 3: Romero and he says, thank you so much for this gift. 197 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 3: You know, fel to me, this also is an impossible thing. 198 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 3: This is clearly made by Homo sapien, and it's clearly 199 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 3: depicting a fish that I know did not exist during 200 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 3: the time of Homo sapien. Where did you get this? 201 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: You must tell me? And he learns through his friend 202 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:38,359 Speaker 3: that people in the Ika province have been finding stones 203 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 3: in a nearby cavern actually due to some meteorological phenomenon, 204 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: and he says, I must have these, right, and he's 205 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 3: let's be honest, no shade one way or the other. 206 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: But the good doctor here is in the upper echelons 207 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 3: of Peruvian society, so he can forward to have an 208 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 3: expensive hobby like this. 209 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 4: Sure, So I guess I'm trying to understand his motivation. 210 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 4: Initially when he said the thing about this fish, like 211 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 4: he is suspicious of their authenticity or he thinks they 212 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 4: represent something massive he'sfisious. 213 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 5: He is suspicious. Okay, oh god, got it. Gots making 214 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 5: sure that I'm on the same. 215 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Fish page. 216 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 5: Carry on, pay me, no mind, all right. 217 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 3: Well, no pun left behind. You're absolutely right. No. What 218 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: he does here is he is intrigued, right. He doesn't 219 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: suspect any scoundrel activity or cons or griffs or chicanery. 220 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: He wants to know more because he's long held an 221 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: intense interest in Peruvian prehistory. He's a good faith actor, 222 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 3: as we called him on this show. And he starts 223 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: he starts hitting the streets for lack of a better phrase, 224 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 3: and he wants to find more stones. He wants to 225 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 3: find this cave in particular, he wants to figure out 226 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 3: where this came from, because you know, if we assume 227 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 3: his perspective, this is something that could fundamentally upend history. 228 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 3: I mean, imagine, you know, imagine if we found something 229 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: like this. We're on an adventure and we find something 230 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 3: that seems to indicate people provably ran into Bigfoot or something. 231 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 4: The stuff that we've long wanted to be proved true, 232 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 4: you know what I mean. 233 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 5: I mean that's part of this too. 234 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 4: Is that confirmation bias, I guess or that drive within 235 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 4: us to like have our dreams, you know, come true. 236 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: Right, that'd be awesome, dude, if any of us found 237 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: something like this, I can guarantee we'd be feeling trepid 238 00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: day fish about it. 239 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 5: I almost said, one almost swam right past me. 240 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: Oh buddy. Oh, And we'll pause here for a word 241 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: from our sponsors. We'll be right back. And we have 242 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 3: returned not just to the show, but to Peruvian conspiracies. 243 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: So this guy, doctor Cabrera, he ends up purchasing more. 244 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: But the word gets around and there's a pair of brothers, 245 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 3: Carlos and Pablo Soldi, and they hear about his interest 246 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 3: and they approach him and they say, hey, Doc, we 247 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 3: have an interest in pre inca art as well. We 248 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: have found a lot of stones. He ends up purchasing 249 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 3: something like three hundred and ten individual samples of these 250 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 3: stones from a nearby region. And they say, look, we've 251 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 3: been trying to talk to archaeologists about this. No one's 252 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 3: really into it. They think it's boring or it's honestly 253 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: not going to help them in their dissertations or whatever. 254 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: And so he says, okay, I'll buy it, and he 255 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 3: gets it for a song. He gets it for like, 256 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 3: let's see, this is the mid nineteen sixties. He gets 257 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: it for the equivalent of thirty pound sterling, so like 258 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: thirty British pounds that comes to us from the forty 259 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 3: een times. So he gets it at a very reasonable rate. 260 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: And he's still hungry for more stones. So he runs 261 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 3: into a farmer. Our second character we mentioned earlier, Basilia Usha, 262 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 3: and this guy, this farmer, Basilio, says, hey, look, duck, 263 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 3: I found this huge cash of stones because the Eco 264 00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 3: River overflowed its banks and it destroyed nearby a globoration 265 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: of soil that exposed a cave. And I have also 266 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 3: been tried to get the attention of the Peruvian government. 267 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 3: I need I need the boffins on this, and and 268 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 3: the doctor says, well, hey, I'm wealthy, I'm smart, I'm interested. 269 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 3: Tell me where the cave is. And the farmer says, 270 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: oh no, no, no, no no, I can't tell you 271 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 3: where the cave is, but I will sell you some 272 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: of these stones. 273 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 4: Who That's where things get a little sussy though, right, 274 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 4: because like, let's just come at this from the perspective 275 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 4: that these are authentic, doesn't that make this extra illegal 276 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 4: this type of yes, because. 277 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 5: I mean yes, the government I believe is. 278 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 4: Very hard on, you know, the theft of Peruvian artifacts, 279 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: which is what this would be. 280 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: Considered one thousand percent and you would have motive here. 281 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: It would exist if you were a detective looking at this. 282 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 2: You know, in every light possible, you say, oh, this, 283 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: this man knows that this particular person is pretty wealthy 284 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 2: and willing to purchase something that you know he's already purchased. 285 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: Would you say three hundred and something, which would be 286 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: a pretty big windfall if you could sell three hundred 287 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: or maybe even more. 288 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's tasty. There's a new mommy to it, right, 289 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 3: So yeah, he says, look, Doc, I can't tell you 290 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 3: about the cave, but I can sell these to you 291 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: because the archaeologist won't pay attention to me, and we 292 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: can only assume. The doctor said, I feel you I 293 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: could contact the archaeologist, and the farmer said, no, okay, okay, okay, 294 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 3: one step at a time. Let me tell you some stones. 295 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: Doctor Cabrera ended up buying thousands of these. He had 296 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: more than, according to some report, to have more than 297 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 3: ten thousand, more than eleven thousand by the nineteen seventies 298 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 3: and over the years, because these guys had a relationship 299 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: for more than a decade. Over the years, Basilio produced 300 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 3: hundreds of these carved stones, and Cabrera, leveraging his social position, 301 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 3: became their greatest promoter, and he would always reach out 302 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 3: to scholars, to other aristocrats, fringe theory enthusiasts, and everybody 303 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 3: that he was speaking to. He was less asking them 304 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 3: for analysis and more proselytizing toward them and saying, these 305 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 3: stones are evidence that everything you know is wrong. Right 306 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 3: up and down right his left, shortest long blah blah blah. 307 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 3: That's a weird Al Yankovic reference. I don't think it'll land. 308 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: We'll keep it. But he's also he's also calling to 309 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 3: religious fundamentalist crouts, calling to creationists. And this gets us 310 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 3: to the point where we see that there are more 311 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 3: easily more than ten thousand stones as we record this evening. 312 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 3: They've been identified as eco stones. The majority belonged to 313 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 3: the estate of Cabrera. He was the hugest promoter. He 314 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 3: made his own museum. Imagine being that well off, you 315 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 3: could make your own museum for a thing. Why don't 316 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 3: we have a museum? Can we do a museum. 317 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: I could with the magic cards. 318 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 4: I could with synthesizers and action figures, but I kind 319 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 4: of want to keep them, so maybe maybe maybe after 320 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 4: I died, but then I'll be able to use them, you 321 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 4: know what. 322 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 5: The museum could be hands on, Yeah. 323 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, like Sidetracker for a big museum he created originally 324 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 3: just contained stones he had purchased from those brothers that 325 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 3: we mentioned earlier, along with stones from his father's collection. 326 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 3: We said he was an aristocrat. His father, Bolivia Cabrera, 327 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 3: was from Spain, and his father had also collected stones. 328 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 3: Now this may be something that's familiar to various members 329 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: of the crowd tonight, but like just a quick personal anecdote, 330 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 3: I remember growing up on some family land that was 331 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 3: riddled with arrowheads. Did you guys ever do that, like 332 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 3: go digging for arrowheads? 333 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 5: I did go digging. 334 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 4: I don't know that I ever found anything authentic, but 335 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 4: it was also easiest to find chipped rocks and just 336 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 4: say that's what they were, you know, as with your 337 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: childlike imagination. 338 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 5: That was probably more me. 339 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 4: I bet you guys found some real deals though, trick 340 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 4: myself into believing a lot of like flint like things 341 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: were ever, tie it onto a stick and make yourself 342 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 4: an improvised bow out of a more bendy stick with 343 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 4: a nice piece of twine. 344 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: I can't say that I did that. 345 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 5: I did. Oh, is that unusual? I did, for sure. 346 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. I found some you know, probably canines 347 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: or some teeth from small animals that I totally believed 348 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 2: were shark teeth back in the day as well. 349 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you were going to say you made 350 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: them into you made arrows from them, arrows from teeth. 351 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 3: That's the most subtle thing. 352 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, that would be sick. 353 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 4: You can put the backwards part forward, you know, with 354 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 4: all the little spiky parts. 355 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 356 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 4: But Cabrera wasn't He also kind of a bit of 357 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 4: a hype man, like he really wanted to spread the word. 358 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 5: Of these things far and wide. 359 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 3: And this is where we see the folklore progression, or 360 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: the evolution the telephone game of this theory, because he 361 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 3: was talking to everybody about this, right, anyone who would 362 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 3: hear him out in academia, outside of academia. He wanted 363 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 3: their not even their opinion, certainly not their criticism. He 364 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,479 Speaker 3: wanted their coside. And as the word transmitted throughout the 365 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 3: globe in different circles. It came to the attention of 366 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: a guy named Eric Vaughan Danakan, Eric von Danakan, Yeah, 367 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 3: publishes a paperback that I loved when I came out, 368 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 3: The Chariots of the Gods question Mark A little bit 369 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: of hedging there. He publishes this first in nineteen sixty nine. 370 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 3: It becomes an international bestseller, and a deluge of similar 371 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 3: books hit the market right after, you know, like when 372 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: an Action Blockbuster comes out, then they're inevitably a bunch 373 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 3: of direct to It used to be direct to vhs, 374 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 3: but now it's like direct to streaming sort of one offs. 375 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 3: What's the name of that the b studios. 376 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 4: Well, they called the mockbusters was that term that was used, 377 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 4: but it was one called like the asylum, I think, 378 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 4: like so instead of transformers, it was transmorphers. And they 379 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 4: were literally banking on people I think, getting confused at 380 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 4: the video store and probably made some made some bucks 381 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 4: off of that. 382 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 3: Similar in the mass market paperback game. At this point, 383 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 3: all of the The key thing here is that all 384 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 3: of these books name checked the mysterious Eca Stones, and 385 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 3: then later religious uh religious types took up the cause 386 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: of the Eca Stones because they were creationists, and uh, 387 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 3: not to not to call any of us out, but 388 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 3: anybody raised in a very religious Christian religious environment knows 389 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,719 Speaker 3: that there's, uh, there's a lot of controversy around the 390 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 3: age of the Earth. 391 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 4: Right, Well, there's certain perspectives in that kind of school 392 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 4: of thought. I guess they would even argue that dinosaurs 393 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 4: aren't real. 394 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, I've heard that argument. 395 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: Is that real, like people saying dinosaurs aren't a thing? 396 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's the speculation goes that it's a big trick 397 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: by the Smithsonian and other government organizations that are based 398 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 2: in Satan, and it's trying to trick human beings to 399 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 2: believe the Earth is much older and all this stuff, 400 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 2: when in fact, firmament and flat earth and all that 401 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 2: all just kind of want. 402 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 4: To simply pointing out an extremity of this position, right, 403 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 4: and then it's definitely what you might call fringe. A 404 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 4: lot of this is but there are certainly people out 405 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 4: there that do put forth that that might well be 406 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 4: a possibility. 407 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 3: Interesting contradiction because a lot of the creationists who championed 408 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 3: the idea of the ego stones championed it because it 409 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 3: showed that it appeared to show dinosaurs and humans living together, 410 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 3: which vibed with their idea that humans and dinosaurs both 411 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 3: existed in a world that was like six thousand to 412 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 3: five thousand years old. 413 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 5: Max, Oh, if I'm not mistaken. 414 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 4: Though, in certain kind of religious, more religious parts of 415 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 4: the country where there was controversy around depicting, you know, 416 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 4: evolution in textbooks, I believe there were some more creationist 417 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 4: leaning versions of textbooks that did express that very same sentiment. 418 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 5: Ben, And this is a long time ago. 419 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 4: I don't think this is maybe as much of a 420 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 4: thing anymore, but I do remember when that was a 421 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 4: real controversy. There were teachers in certain schools in certain 422 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 4: parts of the world that might. 423 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 5: Have taught such things. 424 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I had a T shirt for a long time, guys, 425 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: you might remember it. It was a great T shirt 426 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 2: and had a picture of Jesus writing on a raptor, 427 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 2: and it was kind of poking fun at some of 428 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: that stuff. 429 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 5: You know. 430 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 2: I'm a little embarrassed by it now, but it was 431 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: one of my favorite shirts. 432 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 3: Wait do you not have that shirt before? 433 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 4: I think that would be a thrift store find right there. 434 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 4: Let me tell you, people would pay good money for that, Oh. 435 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 3: Man, I agree with Noel on this one. We also 436 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 3: know that riding the wave of this attention, the Good 437 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 3: Doctor wrote his own book where he set forth the 438 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 3: majority of the claims that have become sort of the 439 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 3: manifesto for people who believe in the Eca Stones. And 440 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 3: this is the hidden history. We got to talk about it, right, 441 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 3: We've made this a two part episode. Let's get into it. 442 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 3: What does he say in his book The Message of 443 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 3: the Engraved Stones of Eca. 444 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: Let's say these one at a time. The first one 445 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: is that the stones themselves are way older than you think. Well, 446 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: I promise they're way older than you're imagining the thing 447 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: I'm about to say at least. 448 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 3: Oh, let's prices write it. 449 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: One dollar million dollars. 450 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 3: Okay, twelve thousand years, one million years. 451 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: Way way more four hundred and five million years old 452 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 2: at least according to the book Wow, based on what exactly. 453 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 5: Vie It does say. 454 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 4: Equally does go on to claim that through the transplantation 455 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 4: of cognitive codes to highly intelligent primates, the men from 456 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 4: outer space created new men on Earth. So these are 457 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: like gods. These are like like kind of godlike entities. 458 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:44,239 Speaker 4: It's almost like the uh the Engineers and Prometheus in 459 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 4: the in the in the Alien World universe. 460 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: The important thing to know there is that, according to 461 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: the book, humans did not start here on planet Earth. 462 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 3: Which technically could be seen as supporting the idea of 463 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 3: pan spermia, which is really concept with a terrible name. 464 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: Again, every time that word comes up, I think about 465 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: Dan Harmon being like that, what did you say? 466 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 3: He roasted us on that one. Yeah? Dad, if you're listening, 467 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 3: shout out man. Yeah. The stones also, according to doctor Cabrera, 468 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 3: they depict dinosaurs and these proto humans he calls the 469 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 3: stones that he likes. The doctor calls them glypto liths, 470 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: and he says the show that these hypothetical ancient people 471 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 3: interacted with these reptiles, and they had larger brains than 472 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 3: those of modern man, these alien humans, and that they 473 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: used a form of quote, concentrated psychic energy ends quote, 474 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: with which they were able to influence celestial events, and 475 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 3: they would record those massive, those massive instances of esp 476 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 3: on the stones. So of course they would so like, 477 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 3: you know how, I want to be careful. I would 478 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 3: say this. We all have at some point met a 479 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 3: person who is low key convinced they can control the weather. Yeah, 480 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 3: I'm not kidding. There there are people who and we're 481 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 3: not saying they're jerks or assholes or anything like that, 482 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 3: you know, but they're saying, Oh, I can make it rain, 483 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 3: or oh I can stop the rain. 484 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: I've had my moments when there's some gusting winds in 485 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 2: the back where I put my hand out right as 486 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: the wind starts back up and I go, oh, oh crap. 487 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 3: And to explain the science with that, because there is 488 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 3: science to that, it's it's a matter of psychological interpretation 489 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 3: of the physical signals, like your body will tell you 490 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 3: when it's about to rain, or when sometimes when the 491 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 3: rain's going to stop. Things like that. You know, if 492 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 3: you want to impress us if you can control the weather, 493 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: then show us video of you make enlightening. 494 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: Yes, please, let's pause right here for a word from 495 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 2: our sponsor and get back with more on the eco 496 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: stones and we're back really quickly, jump back in here. 497 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: The concept that some incredibly psychically powerful civilization, right manlike 498 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,239 Speaker 2: creatures could have all of this technology or all of 499 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 2: this understanding, could be disadvanced and would choose stones as 500 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: the medium to record what they do into to a 501 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 2: historical record into stones. It may sound silly when it 502 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 2: first when you first hear it, but it always makes 503 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: me remember our discussions we've had about what actually sticks 504 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: around after nature takes over. 505 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 5: Something. 506 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, is stones, stone work, stone carvings specifically, even this 507 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: kind of carving, paintings. 508 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 4: Even, I mean, we have so much information from the 509 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 4: historical record, not only just in terms of like sedimentary record, 510 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 4: but like actual artifacts that were created by stone because 511 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 4: they're just damn resilient. Then, as we pointed out, these 512 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 4: particular types of stones, these volcanic stones, are particularly resilient, 513 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 4: which is kind of a feature and a bug in 514 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 4: this scenario, at least in terms of the provenance of 515 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 4: these things. 516 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 5: Right. Yeah. 517 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 3: Check out the research that US scientists and sci fi 518 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 3: writers did a few decades back when they were trying 519 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 3: to figure out how to warn future civilizations about the 520 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: dangers of radiation. They ultimately end up going back to 521 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 3: stone glyphs. Yep, because that'll stick around. So there is 522 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 3: there is a lot of plausibility to that or possibility. 523 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 3: But are but. 524 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 2: The way ben Yeah, stone glyphs and pictograms, right, like 525 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 2: pictures not words. 526 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 6: Not words like ikea instructions wow man, Okay, sorry, Ike, 527 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 6: it reminds me of this thing, like, if this is real, maybe. 528 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 2: That is how somebody would try and get a message 529 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 2: across millions of years. 530 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah right, it's It's one of the most 531 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 3: effective ways. So if you ever want a lasting monument, 532 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 3: make it in stone, honestly, and just hope the tectonic 533 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 3: plates play ball. 534 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 5: They don't collide too hard, right. 535 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 3: Right, And speaking of when worlds collide, our buddy doctor 536 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 3: Cabrera runs into science fiction, right. He does a lot 537 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 3: for future sci fi writers when he says, furthermore, I 538 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 3: believe that some of the machines depicted in these in 539 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 3: these motifs, they look like spacecraft, which to me means 540 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 3: they traveled through space without consuming fuel. And the Nosca 541 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 3: lines are definitely, foresure remnants of an ancient spaceport. I 542 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 3: am taking no questions at this time. 543 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 4: Become a good dayson I said, yeah, I mean, look, okay. 544 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 3: Also, before, lest we sound like we're dunking on this 545 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 3: guy unnecessarily, it is true that the earliest Peruvian artifacts 546 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 3: do date back to around twenty thousand years ago. These 547 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 3: are true things. They do not make any claims about 548 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 3: living around dinosaurs. They don't make any claims about traveling 549 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 3: through space or any great celestial psychic power esp revelations. 550 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 3: We know that engraved stones have been around in the 551 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 3: region and discovered way before the Ecostones gained prominence in 552 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty six. There were Jesuit missionaries who traveled through 553 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 3: Peru during the Spanish conquest, and they even sent some 554 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:16,439 Speaker 3: of these stones, like engraved stones from previous civilizations back 555 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 3: to Spain. Some of these stones are legitimate, but there 556 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 3: are problems. I think we can talk about that, right 557 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 3: if there's an actual All right, here's the thing. Technology 558 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 3: leaves more than a single imprint future, Like in this 559 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 3: kind of time window, you know, two thousand years from now, 560 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 3: the idea of a fossil fuel powered civilization is not 561 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 3: going to be based on the discovery of a single 562 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 3: cache of stones in a cave. There are going to 563 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 3: be other pieces of residue, a sort of sociological ectoplasm, 564 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 3: if you will, right, vestiges of these things. Well, thank you, 565 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 3: thank you. Yeah. The Inca didn't have a written record, 566 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 3: but they had a rich oral tradition. So you're telling 567 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 3: us that not one single story from this super dense 568 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 3: catalog of folklore. Not one of those stories mentioned a 569 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 3: telescope or a beat me here a machine that could fly. 570 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 2: Oh man, that is such a good point. 571 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 3: Just never mention it. It's just the one one stone. 572 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 3: I mean, dinosaurs also died out, as far as we know, 573 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 3: for the most part, way before primates hit the scene. 574 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 2: At least that we're we're aware of. That's what science 575 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 2: says right now, yeah. 576 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 3: Quote unquote science. I mean, also, you know, if we're 577 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 3: tracing the modern story. The BBC produced a documentary on 578 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 3: the Eco Stones, and they had some scathing conclusions. It 579 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 3: goes back, I think to your earlier point, Noel. The 580 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 3: Peruvian government felt a lot of Western pressure and they 581 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 3: felt like they had to respond to this. 582 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 5: That's right. 583 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 4: They did have a mandate to, you know, kind of 584 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 4: oversee the historical relics, the antiquities of the country, and 585 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 4: so the government felt that pressure to kind of have 586 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 4: a show of force here. So they arrested the farmer 587 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 4: for selling these stones under the pretemps these were in 588 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 4: fact legitimate artifacts, at which point the farmer does about 589 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 4: face and quickly changes his story. Whether or not you 590 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 4: believe this is just a self serving act of a 591 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 4: desperate person that's been backed into a corner. 592 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 5: Or if this is the real story in LA, you 593 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 5: be the judge. 594 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 4: There were farmer re candidates story claiming in fact that 595 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 4: he had carved all ten thousand of the stones himself. 596 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 4: Get a step further, guys. He demonstrated his technique. Remember 597 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 4: we were talking about how do you penetrate the you know, 598 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 4: the very durable seven out of ten mose scale surface 599 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 4: of these volcanic rocks. We're gonna need something a little 600 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 4: more powerful than just like a hammer and chisel, and 601 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 4: he showed that he had been doing it with sort 602 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 4: of like a drimal type tool or I guess maybe 603 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 4: you could a dental drill, maybe, Ben, which was my 604 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 4: teeth throw on. 605 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 5: I just thinking about it. 606 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 3: Makes your teeth sing. Yeah, apparently, he said. Just we 607 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 3: were relating there, this is how I did it. Not 608 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 3: only did I create these historical hoaxes like this shrouded 609 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 3: to it, but I also used a dental drill. Let 610 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 3: me show you the these methods. The government considered this 611 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 3: all a hoax. They shut it down and they said, 612 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 3: all right, our geopolitical embarrassment is over and done with 613 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like, if you fart in 614 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 3: a busy elevator and then you get to your floor, hey, 615 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 3: just walk away, you know, you just hope you don't 616 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 3: meet those six people again. Cynthia, I'm sorry, Well, can I. 617 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 2: Can I posit something here just as a again, maybe 618 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 2: a minor devil's advocate. 619 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, major devil's advocate. 620 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of this farmer. 621 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 2: And the government finally gets wind of what you're doing, 622 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 2: and they're none too happy about it. They're saying, hey, uh, 623 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 2: what you've been doing is illegal, and you are going 624 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 2: under the jail for betraying your country basically, and all 625 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 2: of the people's in the history you're you're going to jail. 626 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 2: Would you maybe, put in that position be willing to 627 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 2: say something like I hoaxed this whole thing to try 628 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: and get out of that. 629 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 4: Well, that's yeah, that's what I was kind of saying. 630 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 4: I wasn't being a total jerk. I mean, like, it 631 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 4: does seem backed into a corner or perhaps because of 632 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,720 Speaker 4: the influence of others, that this person took the fall, 633 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 4: you know, and uh and acted as sort of a 634 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 4: knowing Patsy. 635 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that. I like this. I think this 636 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 3: is a fitting wave for us to begin wrapping this up, 637 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 3: because even now a ton of people believe that Eco 638 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 3: stones are legitimate and that there is a cover up 639 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 3: of some sort of foot because the person with the 640 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 3: lowest socioeconomic status, Let's be honest, Basilio I was forced 641 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 3: to announce that he had faked the stones to avoid imprisonment, 642 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 3: and they were going to lock this guy up for years. Uh. 643 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 3: Peruvian law explicitly prohibits the sale of archaeological discoveries. So 644 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 3: what if under that pressure, perhaps pressure against his family 645 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 3: as well, he took the fall right and said, hey, 646 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 3: I'm faking it. Nothing to see here, you know. Just 647 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 3: let me be a free man, Let my family be safe. 648 00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 2: Uh. 649 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 3: And I've learned not to interact with the one percent 650 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 3: or whatever. He later has an interview with a journalist 651 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 3: wherein he says, I did not forge any of this. 652 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 3: I had to claim they were a hoax so I 653 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 3: could avoid jail time because you know, I'm not a 654 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 3: wealthy man. 655 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 4: I have to keep my job because of the iron 656 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 4: fisted approach to pursuing folks dealing in these types of 657 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 4: stolen antiquities right. 658 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 3: Right, and then we see other ripples in the pond. 659 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 3: Here there are other folks like a archaeologist Alejandro Pezi Eserito, 660 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 3: They who argue that they have found other stones that 661 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 3: are similar, that also have engraved patina, that if not, 662 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,839 Speaker 3: if they don't purport to show the same things, they 663 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 3: show similar things. 664 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 4: I think it's really important that we'd tina. I think 665 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 4: is very interesting because if you look at like a 666 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 4: raw one of these types of volcanic stones, they're real rough, 667 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 4: you know, the outside, and they aren't like this kind 668 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 4: of smooth obsidian quality. And if you look at images 669 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 4: of these stones they have that. That's why I brought 670 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 4: up a massage stone thing. That's what those look like. 671 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 4: They have this sort of patina that that has to 672 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,720 Speaker 4: be carved into. 673 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,399 Speaker 5: Well, what do you think, who's full of crap? Here? 674 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,280 Speaker 3: Well, some of the stones, this is the thing. Part 675 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 3: of this is true. Some of these stones are legitimate. 676 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 3: That's fantastic news. The slightly less fantastic news is that 677 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 3: the legit stones, which are weathered for sure, and are 678 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 3: ancient and are engraved by human hands, they're all what 679 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 3: we will call the tamer stones. They don't have fanciful 680 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 3: depictions dinosaurs and humans high five and none of the 681 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,919 Speaker 3: sci fi stuff. It looks like historical hoaxes got mixed 682 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 3: in with the general article as part of the booming 683 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 3: illegal trade in ancient artifacts. That's a distressingly common phenomena 684 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 3: throughout the world and throughout history, like how many pieces 685 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 3: of the True Cross were sold in the Middle Ages. 686 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? 687 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 2: I do, yeah, And it makes sense, as we said 688 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 2: at the very top of this, if you find there 689 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 2: is a side hustle and all you need is a 690 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 2: drill in some smooth stones and you can make bank. 691 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,720 Speaker 2: M Maybe you take that. 692 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 3: We got into the wrong business, you know what I mean? 693 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 2: Like I think we should be all the time. 694 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,800 Speaker 3: Faking historical stuff right. 695 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 2: Now, gosh, in my dreams. 696 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 3: Here's here's the real bullet that hit Kennedy. Too dark. 697 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 3: All right, we'll do something, We'll do something different. So 698 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,320 Speaker 3: this is mostly a hoax unless we choose to believe 699 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 3: doctor Cabrera and Usja, both of whom ultimately maintained that 700 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 3: there is something the Peruvian government and perhaps the world 701 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 3: doesn't want you to know. Unfortunately, we cannot ask the 702 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 3: doctor about his beliefs directly as he passed away in 703 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 3: two thousand and one. However, if you want to learn more, 704 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 3: he has a museum. His estate has museum, the Museo 705 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,879 Speaker 3: Scientifico Avier Caberettra, which you can visit. 706 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 4: I do think it's really interesting, man, when you google 707 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 4: this stuff and look for, like, you know, Ikostone's dating 708 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 4: and all of this kind of thing, the majority of 709 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 4: the bulk of like articles that come up are megacreationist websites. 710 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 5: They are really behind this thing, man, at first. 711 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 4: And I was looking at it first, say, and again, 712 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 4: I'm not here to diss anybody's religion or whatever. That's 713 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 4: not the point here. But I just think it's very 714 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 4: interesting that obviously has a a there is an agenda 715 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 4: here in terms of like helping to bolster someone's set 716 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 4: of beliefs. And I was reading this article on creation 717 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 4: dot com before I realized it was on creation dot com, 718 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 4: and it seemed very like scientifically measured talking about different methods. 719 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 5: Of dating and stuff. 720 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 4: And I'm not saying the stuff in here isn't necessarily accurate, 721 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 4: but it is very much on this site that says 722 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,919 Speaker 4: humans and dinosaurs existed together. And that's what they're trying 723 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 4: to prove through various means. 724 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 5: It's interesting. 725 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 2: I just want to see the dino movies that were 726 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 2: created before mankind came around, Like, what kind of cinema 727 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 2: are they making? 728 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 5: You know, I love it. 729 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,760 Speaker 3: I want to see the conspiracy about a meteor landing. 730 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 3: You know, it's crazy staggo man a media from space. 731 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 2: Oh, it's like that movie twenty twelve. But just yeah, yeah, 732 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 2: a couple million years, hundreds of millions of years before, folks. 733 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear your I love that pitch, Matt. 734 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear your pitch for a dinosaur 735 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 3: version of a movie? Right, pre human? Right? What would 736 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 3: what what would Devil's Advocate be about if it were 737 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 3: by dinosaurs for dinosaurs so B D f D And 738 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 3: what would what would your favorite tropes be? What would 739 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 3: what would your interpretation of a classic dynos cinema be? Uh? 740 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 3: Equally as important. 741 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 4: What kind of dinosaur would al Pacino be? Just that's 742 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 4: just a straight up question. 743 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,720 Speaker 3: As specific as possible, Yes, as specific as possible. Bonus 744 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 3: points if you base it on science. Christopher Walken as well, obviously. 745 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 5: Hawkins a t rex because of the hands. 746 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 3: Do you think so? 747 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 4: I think I don't know why. I'm sorry it doesn't 748 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 4: have weird hands, but it just hit me, just hit 749 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 4: me that way. 750 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 3: Also, we understand that some human actors can't really be 751 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 3: put in a box like that. Shout out till the 752 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 3: Swinton Gary Oldman in particular. They're just they're chameleons already. 753 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 3: We also want to know, perhaps equally or more importantly, 754 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 3: what other pieces of anachronistic technology should we explore in 755 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 3: the future. Let us know. We try to be easy 756 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 3: to find online. That's right. 757 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 4: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where 758 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,280 Speaker 4: we exist on YouTube where we have video content galore, 759 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 4: on x FKA, Twitter, and on. 760 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 5: Facebook we have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. 761 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 4: Hey, feeling charitable, why not hit us up on Apple Podcasts. 762 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 4: The podcast is called stuff they Don't Want You to 763 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 4: Know and leave us a five star review. Really help 764 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 4: people discover the show, and we really appreciate your service. 765 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 4: You can also find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff 766 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,280 Speaker 4: show on Instagram and TikTok. 767 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 2: Hey, and also tell your friends about the show. Talk 768 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 2: to your friends about these weird stones, see what they think, 769 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 2: na and then send them our way. 770 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 3: If you don't like the show, tell your enemies. 771 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 2: That's right, especially your enemies. If you want to talk 772 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 2: to us directly, you can use your mouth and your phone. 773 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 2: Isn't that weird? You can call one eight three three STDWYTK. 774 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 2: That's our voicemail system. When you call in, give yourself 775 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 2: a cool nickname, and then let us know. If we 776 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,319 Speaker 2: can use your name and message on the air, then 777 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 2: the rest of that three minute voicemail is yours. Use 778 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 2: it as you'd like. If you've got more to say 779 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 2: than can fit in that message, why not instead send 780 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,880 Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email. 781 00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,360 Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence 782 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:46,480 Speaker 3: we receive. Be aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back, 783 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,280 Speaker 3: send us just like our pal Humor. Is Harry your 784 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,240 Speaker 3: favorite dinosaur jokes? What do you call a dinosaur wearing 785 00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 3: a cowboy hat and boots? Tyanosaurus texts that's how low 786 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,720 Speaker 3: the bar is, So press us, elevate us. Let's journey 787 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:29,280 Speaker 3: into the darkness together. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 788 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,440 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 789 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, 790 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.