WEBVTT - Labi Siffre 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.396 Pushkin. Since getting his start in the late sixties, Leby 0:00:22.436 --> 0:00:25.716 Siffrey has had an unflinching commitment to writing exactly what 0:00:25.796 --> 0:00:28.916 he feels. The result was a debut album that announced 0:00:28.916 --> 0:00:31.996 a singular talent, a British singer songwriter who can move 0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:36.356 seamlessly from jazz inflected soul to tender love songs, all 0:00:36.356 --> 0:00:39.356 while addressing themes of love, identity, and justice that most 0:00:39.396 --> 0:00:43.316 pop artists wouldn't touch. Over the next decade, Siffrey built 0:00:43.316 --> 0:00:47.556 the catalog that defied category. Still, his nineteen seventy two 0:00:47.596 --> 0:00:51.236 song Crying, Laughing, Loving, Lying became an international success, and 0:00:51.316 --> 0:00:54.236 his song something Inside So Strong, written years later in 0:00:54.276 --> 0:00:58.196 response Apartheid, also became a big hit, revealing the true 0:00:58.196 --> 0:01:02.636 scope of his artistry. And then there's Igattha from his 0:01:02.716 --> 0:01:05.956 nineteen seventy five album Remember My Song that would quietly 0:01:05.996 --> 0:01:08.596 become one of the most sampled songs in hip hop history, 0:01:09.316 --> 0:01:13.636 famously by doctor dre on Eminem's My Name Is. Yet, 0:01:13.676 --> 0:01:16.716 despite his influence, which instead of waning, has actually grown 0:01:16.716 --> 0:01:20.236 over generations, Sefrie has remained something of a hidden treasure, 0:01:20.556 --> 0:01:23.796 an artist whose integrity and independence kept him just outside 0:01:23.796 --> 0:01:26.836 of the mainstream On today's episode, I talked to Labby 0:01:26.876 --> 0:01:29.636 Siffree about growing up in fifties London and the music 0:01:29.636 --> 0:01:32.516 he discovered that set him on his particular artistic path. 0:01:32.996 --> 0:01:35.556 Labby also talks about how he wants music to enliven 0:01:35.676 --> 0:01:37.636 him and how much it annoys him when people tell 0:01:37.716 --> 0:01:40.596 him to chill, and he explains why, after decades in 0:01:40.636 --> 0:01:45.276 the music industry, he's never regretted choosing honesty over commercial compromise. 0:01:48.076 --> 0:01:57.556 This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my 0:01:57.636 --> 0:02:03.156 conversation with Labby Siffrey Man. So I came to your 0:02:03.236 --> 0:02:07.596 music through hip hop. I was a big hip hop 0:02:07.636 --> 0:02:12.316 fan growing up and going looking for samples. I discovered 0:02:13.036 --> 0:02:16.516 your music a handful of times across a few different 0:02:17.156 --> 0:02:21.556 using a few different songs. And over the years, some 0:02:21.676 --> 0:02:24.836 of those songs that have discovered you through have kind 0:02:24.876 --> 0:02:30.076 of faded away in my in my consciousness, and and 0:02:30.076 --> 0:02:32.396 and what sort of been left is your your actual 0:02:32.756 --> 0:02:37.316 real catalog of songs that just every year grow in 0:02:37.396 --> 0:02:39.236 terms of how much I love them and how much 0:02:39.276 --> 0:02:42.876 I listened to them. And so it was a really 0:02:43.716 --> 0:02:48.596 bizarre way to discover a songwriter as delicate as as 0:02:48.636 --> 0:02:51.116 as your as your songwriting could be in a in 0:02:50.516 --> 0:02:54.436 a in a songwriting, sometimes it's as fierce in terms 0:02:54.476 --> 0:02:58.716 of social criticism as your songwriting can be. But uh, 0:02:59.156 --> 0:03:01.796 I'm really glad that I discovered you about twenty years ago, 0:03:01.836 --> 0:03:04.316 and and and and so glad that we're able to 0:03:04.316 --> 0:03:07.956 speak because, like I said, your music is it means 0:03:07.956 --> 0:03:13.236 a lot. I gotta say, though the British music scene 0:03:14.996 --> 0:03:20.436 confuses me. It seems like what confuses me is it 0:03:20.436 --> 0:03:22.596 seems like there were a bunch of different scenes. But 0:03:22.636 --> 0:03:26.036 I'm not sure that there was like a I just 0:03:26.076 --> 0:03:27.916 I'm not so familiar with it, I guess, being from 0:03:28.276 --> 0:03:30.876 the States. And so I was curious when you were 0:03:32.036 --> 0:03:35.556 growing up playing music before just before you got your 0:03:35.556 --> 0:03:38.076 contract to do your first album, your self titled album, 0:03:40.116 --> 0:03:42.396 where were you and what was going on musically? 0:03:43.156 --> 0:03:50.276 Uh? Well, Christmas nineteen sixty nine, Uh, I was in 0:03:50.356 --> 0:03:58.676 Amsterdam trying to see if I could well, just to 0:03:58.676 --> 0:04:00.316 try and see what would happen if I went to 0:04:00.356 --> 0:04:07.676 a different country, and I was one of the gigs 0:04:07.716 --> 0:04:13.676 I did was at the parodies. Uh I made I 0:04:13.996 --> 0:04:19.076 make of friends with a Czech classical guitarist and his lady. 0:04:19.476 --> 0:04:22.916 He and I we did the We did the Paradiso, 0:04:22.996 --> 0:04:26.516 which was a kind of a psychedelic club, and he 0:04:26.636 --> 0:04:29.916 was on stage and he played an excellent classical guitarist 0:04:30.156 --> 0:04:32.396 and there was, you know, kind of smashing your applause. 0:04:33.556 --> 0:04:36.556 Then I did my set and it was huge cheers 0:04:36.716 --> 0:04:39.276 and a huge amount of things. And I came off 0:04:39.436 --> 0:04:41.716 the stage and I said to him, what was that 0:04:41.836 --> 0:04:44.676 all about? He said, well, they were they were screening 0:04:44.716 --> 0:04:59.076 Porner behind you and h and and about. Well, like 0:04:59.076 --> 0:05:01.756 I said, that was in That was in December sixty nine, 0:05:01.796 --> 0:05:03.996 and that the and towards the end of that I 0:05:04.036 --> 0:05:06.916 got a call saying somebody wants to offer you a 0:05:06.956 --> 0:05:09.596 publishing deal and a record deal. I had a band 0:05:11.076 --> 0:05:15.356 called Safari up till that moment, and I was on 0:05:15.436 --> 0:05:20.276 electric guitar, my old Harmony, and for some reason I 0:05:20.396 --> 0:05:23.516 decided the amp was getting between me and the guitar, 0:05:24.756 --> 0:05:27.756 and I wanted the Turvius to be one just me 0:05:27.796 --> 0:05:30.876 and the guitar. So I sold my electric guitar on 0:05:30.916 --> 0:05:34.396 an acoustic and went off to Amsterdam. And I remember 0:05:35.076 --> 0:05:41.716 the first gig very unlike me, because I was not 0:05:41.796 --> 0:05:44.276 the most confident personal in the world at that time. 0:05:45.316 --> 0:05:48.796 Still probably not, and I asked if I could sit in, 0:05:48.836 --> 0:05:50.836 which I thought was very brave of me at the time, 0:05:52.036 --> 0:05:56.116 and I found myself on stage. It was a listening audience. 0:05:56.156 --> 0:05:58.796 It was the first folk club that I had ever 0:05:58.836 --> 0:06:01.676 been in. That's one of the things that always amuses 0:06:01.716 --> 0:06:05.596 me because in my categories, of which there are legions, 0:06:05.796 --> 0:06:09.316 one of them is folk. I don't know anything about 0:06:09.996 --> 0:06:13.236 as far as I'm concerned. Folk music is Robert Johnson. 0:06:13.996 --> 0:06:21.076 Yeah that I know that I know, But European folk music, 0:06:21.756 --> 0:06:25.556 I mean, but that's fine, But you know, but I 0:06:25.836 --> 0:06:28.636 not part of my learning. But it's I think it's 0:06:28.676 --> 0:06:31.916 probably because I, apart from that I do play occasionally 0:06:31.916 --> 0:06:35.396 electric guitar, I mainly am seen with an acoustic right. 0:06:35.956 --> 0:06:41.196 And you have to remember that reviewers and the business generally, 0:06:41.596 --> 0:06:43.676 I mean, the only way of describing music is to 0:06:43.756 --> 0:06:47.836 hear it. So people who write about it tend to 0:06:47.876 --> 0:06:52.036 write in comparisons. They say, that sounds a bit like 0:06:52.156 --> 0:06:54.716 that person and a bit like that person crossed with 0:06:54.836 --> 0:06:59.196 that person, and the whole system of saying what the 0:06:59.276 --> 0:07:01.796 music is just doesn't work. Like I say, the anywhere 0:07:01.796 --> 0:07:06.076 of describing music is to hear it, so which is 0:07:06.116 --> 0:07:14.956 why I get soul, flunk jazz was the other one, 0:07:15.156 --> 0:07:19.596 not independent whatever it is. Indeed, indeed, indeed I get 0:07:19.636 --> 0:07:20.276 about five. 0:07:20.956 --> 0:07:24.436 I was reading a Spin article about you, or is 0:07:24.476 --> 0:07:26.716 an interview with you from nineteen eighty eight, I want 0:07:26.716 --> 0:07:29.556 to say, and they said, you know, he's he started 0:07:29.556 --> 0:07:33.116 as an R and B artist in England. That's true, 0:07:33.236 --> 0:07:35.036 you know, But was that true? 0:07:35.956 --> 0:07:39.876 I started as a Jimmy Reid clone when I bought 0:07:39.876 --> 0:07:43.876 my first guitar, a four pound ten from Chapels and 0:07:43.916 --> 0:07:48.876 Ealing Broadway, if anybody knows that, I got home and 0:07:48.916 --> 0:07:52.356 I bought two books. In the UK at that time, 0:07:52.796 --> 0:07:57.116 everybody bought Bert Whedon's Player in a day. But I 0:07:57.156 --> 0:08:02.036 also got chet Atkins had a by guitar. And I 0:08:02.076 --> 0:08:06.076 remember sitting on my bed in my bedroom and I 0:08:06.076 --> 0:08:10.396 couldn't make head or tail either of I just couldn't. 0:08:10.676 --> 0:08:15.076 I just couldn't work anything out. But I already felt 0:08:15.756 --> 0:08:18.996 because from the moment I heard Let's Together by Jimmy Reed. 0:08:19.436 --> 0:08:21.796 I mean, he's known mainly for a big boss man, 0:08:21.836 --> 0:08:26.036 but but the moment I heard Let's Get Together, it 0:08:26.156 --> 0:08:28.876 was kind of like, I don't know the first time, 0:08:31.436 --> 0:08:34.196 I don't know, like and still still for me, the 0:08:34.236 --> 0:08:37.836 best work he ever did. Hey, Joe the Hendrix, say 0:08:39.276 --> 0:08:41.316 and all the first time when we when we were 0:08:41.356 --> 0:08:47.436 working at an is room jazz club in Drury Lane. Uh, 0:08:48.316 --> 0:08:51.676 the first time I heard James Brown, I mean, these 0:08:51.756 --> 0:08:52.996 these changes. 0:08:52.636 --> 0:08:53.796 For on record. 0:08:54.556 --> 0:08:57.076 It was on the jukebox there we were in the bar, 0:08:57.556 --> 0:09:01.036 you know, after after hours, when the audience had everybody 0:09:01.076 --> 0:09:04.356 gone away, and somebody put James Brown on and and 0:09:04.436 --> 0:09:08.356 it was kind of my immediate thought was, he's got 0:09:08.356 --> 0:09:14.316 it backwards. He's playing it backwards, because as a jazz person, 0:09:14.356 --> 0:09:19.956 I was used to not on the one, not on 0:09:19.996 --> 0:09:20.316 the one. 0:09:21.036 --> 0:09:24.916 Yeah, it's a strange emphasis, you know. 0:09:25.076 --> 0:09:30.756 So I was immediately confute, confused, and I knew I 0:09:30.796 --> 0:09:33.156 really liked it. But but I mean, that was my 0:09:33.196 --> 0:09:39.956 first impression. He's playing it backwards. What's going on? So 0:09:39.956 --> 0:09:42.316 so yeah, but like I say, I'm sitting in my 0:09:42.396 --> 0:09:47.956 bedroom and I but I already felt Jimmy reed and 0:09:48.116 --> 0:09:55.076 so I looked that, you know, that shuffle and and 0:09:55.116 --> 0:09:57.796 it went from there, and then I I was, I was, 0:09:57.916 --> 0:10:01.276 I was sixteen, and then I put a band together 0:10:01.476 --> 0:10:04.996 with my I've got I've I had four brothers, the 0:10:05.036 --> 0:10:07.676 brother just above me, was five years older than me. 0:10:08.156 --> 0:10:13.276 He's he's a Sally responsible uh for a hell of 0:10:13.276 --> 0:10:17.516 a lot, because he had a really extensive record collection, 0:10:18.436 --> 0:10:23.396 but he only had the best wow in every genre. Yeah, 0:10:23.876 --> 0:10:27.236 when I look back, he had the people who really 0:10:27.316 --> 0:10:30.276 made every genre work. 0:10:30.916 --> 0:10:33.436 Is that your brother who's on the cover of Children 0:10:33.516 --> 0:10:34.956 of Children of Children? 0:10:35.836 --> 0:10:37.756 Yeah, he's holding me. I'm the baby. 0:10:37.876 --> 0:10:40.156 That's your brother on that. 0:10:39.436 --> 0:10:43.716 That's that's that's calling. And so I mean I could say, 0:10:43.756 --> 0:10:47.076 for example, that I'm an autodidact. Now, oh yeah, I 0:10:47.076 --> 0:10:52.836 taught myself bullshit. He had a huge record collection whom 0:10:52.876 --> 0:10:55.276 I like, I say, from Robert Johnson through to Cecil Taylor. 0:10:55.756 --> 0:10:58.596 How does how do? How do you want? Tomass a 0:10:58.676 --> 0:11:06.036 collection of of of really choice music from America at 0:11:06.036 --> 0:11:08.396 that time. Like was it easy to get American records? 0:11:08.916 --> 0:11:13.516 Yeah, I mean, I mean all of us were. I 0:11:13.596 --> 0:11:16.556 was brought up with the Great American Songbook, and I 0:11:16.596 --> 0:11:20.716 was brought up with American jazz right the way, you know, 0:11:20.796 --> 0:11:24.756 passing through our Tatum to Cecil Taylor as piano monk 0:11:24.876 --> 0:11:27.756 Miles Mengus. I mean I started out as a Jimmy 0:11:27.756 --> 0:11:33.796 Reid clone, and I had a disturbing piece of information. 0:11:35.116 --> 0:11:37.956 His son clearly the kind of kid who walking down 0:11:37.996 --> 0:11:42.036 the school school corridor you trip up, because his bass 0:11:42.036 --> 0:11:45.196 player was his son, who was either nine or eleven 0:11:45.756 --> 0:11:47.676 on that track, and it was kind. 0:11:47.476 --> 0:11:51.356 Of how dare you wait, Jimmy, Jimmy Reid's. 0:11:51.516 --> 0:11:54.196 Son, and it was kind of how do you be 0:11:54.276 --> 0:11:56.556 so talented and be able to do that groove and 0:11:57.316 --> 0:11:59.796 on that track. I don't know whether it's true, but 0:11:59.996 --> 0:12:02.836 I was told that his son at the time of 0:12:02.876 --> 0:12:05.276 that recording was either nine or eleven. 0:12:05.236 --> 0:12:08.116 Nine, ten or eleven on Let's Get Together, which was 0:12:08.156 --> 0:12:10.996 made famous later by I think cant He did like 0:12:11.036 --> 0:12:12.156 a version that was a hit. 0:12:12.716 --> 0:12:17.516 And oh right, I mean that's that track still living, 0:12:17.556 --> 0:12:19.516 It's that track is a part Wow. 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:22.476 Yeah, it's a strange. It's a strange. It's a shuffle, 0:12:22.476 --> 0:12:24.956 as you said, but it's a He has a really like, 0:12:25.036 --> 0:12:28.996 kind of laconic kind of well well, I mean, I. 0:12:28.956 --> 0:12:32.156 Mean, Jimmy Reed. I always I also say this about 0:12:32.156 --> 0:12:35.676 women Morton the composer, although it's a little unfair on Morton, 0:12:35.716 --> 0:12:39.196 but it's pretty much Walton that they both have only 0:12:39.276 --> 0:12:43.316 one thing that they do, but both of them are fantastic. 0:12:43.796 --> 0:12:47.396 I mean, you know, I mean to get that shuffle right, 0:12:47.556 --> 0:12:49.996 I don't. I don't think I've heard anybody else be 0:12:50.076 --> 0:12:52.796 able to do it right. Yeah, I know. 0:12:52.916 --> 0:12:55.756 Keith Richards famously, you know, is a fan of that 0:12:55.916 --> 0:12:57.876 as well, and he tries, you know, he has his 0:12:57.956 --> 0:12:59.556 version of it, but it's not the same. 0:13:00.076 --> 0:13:04.396 No, which is one of the funny things about we 0:13:04.476 --> 0:13:08.836 were talking about genres. I mean, R and B now 0:13:10.516 --> 0:13:13.436 is kind of what we used to call lovers lovers 0:13:13.556 --> 0:13:20.036 rock ah and R and B then had muscle now 0:13:20.156 --> 0:13:22.876 if I mean, I I must say one of the 0:13:22.876 --> 0:13:27.316 things that well, I do find a little bit is 0:13:27.356 --> 0:13:29.236 that I keep being told to chill. 0:13:31.036 --> 0:13:32.876 What do you mean explain music? 0:13:32.916 --> 0:13:34.676 Well, I go, you know, you go from music to 0:13:34.796 --> 0:13:38.516 music and music and it's always recommended because it's music 0:13:38.556 --> 0:13:41.316 to chill too. I don't want to chill. I want 0:13:41.356 --> 0:13:46.596 to be enlivenment. You know, I don't. I don't. I 0:13:46.596 --> 0:13:47.356 don't want to chill. 0:13:48.636 --> 0:13:50.436 You know, I agree, I agree, And you know, people 0:13:50.476 --> 0:13:52.476 think about I love jazz as well, and people always 0:13:52.476 --> 0:13:55.636 think about jazz as music you put to cool out 0:13:55.676 --> 0:13:58.636 to chill, and it's like the first jazz is really 0:13:59.516 --> 0:14:05.556 it energizes you. You get anxious. Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly, 0:14:05.596 --> 0:14:07.836 you could get wired. Yeah, I get wired listening to jazz. 0:14:07.876 --> 0:14:09.556 You know, I get the most energy I could get 0:14:09.556 --> 0:14:10.076 from anything. 0:14:10.716 --> 0:14:15.236 Clearly, also, they've never heard of David Sampon uh, and 0:14:15.236 --> 0:14:23.236 they've clearly never heard Paul Gonzales twenty minutes solo chill sorry. 0:14:22.916 --> 0:14:25.076 Man mingus, chilling, mingus. 0:14:25.716 --> 0:14:30.396 I think Monk is still my favorite pianist. Jazz pianis 0:14:32.076 --> 0:14:35.276 so yeah. I mean I I like I say, it's 0:14:37.156 --> 0:14:38.996 it's uh. And of course, of course when he gets 0:14:39.076 --> 0:14:45.436 up the dance with Charlie Rowse or most most Underrated, 0:14:46.076 --> 0:14:49.196 I love that band that those those that that's a 0:14:49.236 --> 0:14:54.596 great band. And like I say, for me, my I 0:14:54.636 --> 0:14:56.076 was talking about. You know, I could say I was 0:14:56.156 --> 0:14:58.916 I taught myself, but in fact I was taught because 0:14:58.956 --> 0:15:01.676 Collie had such like I said, with her, he had 0:15:01.716 --> 0:15:06.036 the cream of of every genre that he bought. And 0:15:06.116 --> 0:15:10.556 so I was taught by every musician I'd ever heard. 0:15:10.956 --> 0:15:13.996 On that record collection. You don't do this kind of 0:15:13.996 --> 0:15:17.396 thing on your own, you know. I remember hearing there 0:15:17.436 --> 0:15:20.676 was a rock god being interviewed and there and he 0:15:20.756 --> 0:15:22.676 was asked what his influences were, and he said, Oh, 0:15:22.676 --> 0:15:25.916 I don't have any influences. It's just me. And I thought, well, 0:15:25.956 --> 0:15:28.596 you're either a liar or a genius, and I know 0:15:28.716 --> 0:15:31.876 you're not a genius. You know. 0:15:32.756 --> 0:15:33.836 Do you remember who that was? 0:15:34.396 --> 0:15:36.636 No, I don't remember. Well, it was the kind of 0:15:36.636 --> 0:15:41.596 person to very quickly forget. So, yeah, I mean I 0:15:41.596 --> 0:15:44.436 had so, I probably had thousands of teachers. 0:15:44.836 --> 0:15:48.396 Can you can you locate that Jimmy Reid blues shuffle 0:15:48.556 --> 0:15:50.476 thing and you're playing at all because it's funny. I 0:15:50.516 --> 0:15:51.316 don't know if I hear it. 0:15:51.676 --> 0:15:54.716 Yeah, I mean I I used to play it exactly 0:15:54.716 --> 0:16:00.836 as he played it. Now I play it differently. Before before, 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:04.396 I mean before I had my first record deal, I'm 0:16:04.396 --> 0:16:06.916 publishing deal. On the same day, I had a band 0:16:06.916 --> 0:16:13.116 call Safari, and we did We did some wood stuff 0:16:14.236 --> 0:16:20.836 and I arranged several backrack how David's song cool. But 0:16:21.076 --> 0:16:28.916 because I come basically from the jazz tradition, I've never 0:16:28.956 --> 0:16:32.356 seen the point of doing a cover where the only 0:16:32.396 --> 0:16:36.876 thing that changes is the singer's voice. The whole idea 0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:40.196 is that you're supposed to try, at least to take 0:16:40.236 --> 0:16:44.636 the material and put you into it. If you've got 0:16:44.636 --> 0:16:47.756 somebody to put into it. It's to take you and 0:16:47.836 --> 0:16:51.356 make it your own, even if it's not very good 0:16:51.396 --> 0:16:53.596 your own. But you're supposed to do what you do. 0:16:55.196 --> 0:16:58.116 My good friend Woody who was the drum well, we 0:16:58.156 --> 0:17:01.036 all met, Woody, Bob and I we met. Our first 0:17:01.196 --> 0:17:05.836 real work was with a guy called Hamilton King's Blues Messengers, 0:17:06.836 --> 0:17:12.636 which I replaced the Kings. I replaced Ray Davis as 0:17:12.676 --> 0:17:16.916 the guitarist in that band. And what he was on drums, 0:17:17.316 --> 0:17:19.556 Bob was on his Hammond B three. 0:17:20.836 --> 0:17:23.276 And did you know Ray Davies at that time? 0:17:23.316 --> 0:17:26.876 No, no, I no, And it's actually it's only in 0:17:26.916 --> 0:17:30.436 the past ten years that I you know, it just 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:36.036 came across Hamilton's band and in which the article said 0:17:36.076 --> 0:17:39.156 that Ray Davis was a guitarist, not Dave Davis, who 0:17:39.196 --> 0:17:40.276 was the lead guitarist in the. 0:17:40.316 --> 0:17:42.276 King Yeah, Ray a songwriter. 0:17:43.196 --> 0:17:48.156 Yes, sorry. I replaced him with Hamilton King's whose Messengers. 0:17:48.156 --> 0:17:51.196 I think was in that as well, the drummer of Fleetwood. 0:17:51.476 --> 0:17:53.236 At a certain point it. 0:17:53.316 --> 0:17:57.916 Might will have done. I mean Hamilton Hamilton influenced a 0:17:57.956 --> 0:18:04.116 few people still see him now another giant. Yeah. That 0:18:04.276 --> 0:18:10.836 The thing about me is that I don't I don't 0:18:10.836 --> 0:18:17.596 have one genre that I write in. But when I 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:22.996 got my contract, my first contract, when they discovered that 0:18:23.076 --> 0:18:28.996 I could actually hold the stage on my own. I mean, 0:18:29.036 --> 0:18:33.436 I supported people like Chicago at the Olympia in Paris, 0:18:33.796 --> 0:18:36.436 me and my guitar and you walk on stage, nobody 0:18:36.516 --> 0:18:41.956 knows who the hell you are. I had learnt because I, 0:18:42.676 --> 0:18:44.516 you know, a lot of the gigs that I did 0:18:44.556 --> 0:18:46.476 once I had my contract were in what we call 0:18:46.556 --> 0:18:50.316 working men's clubs, and they were also in clubs where 0:18:50.476 --> 0:18:53.476 you know, you know, I remember one in whole huge club. 0:18:53.916 --> 0:18:57.836 These were places where people went to eat, drink and 0:18:57.876 --> 0:19:01.516 have a laugh. And I did that for quite a 0:19:01.556 --> 0:19:04.636 few years, and I had to learn how to walk 0:19:04.676 --> 0:19:09.396 on stage, sit down and make them be quiet from 0:19:09.476 --> 0:19:12.676 listen and I this is one of the reasons why 0:19:13.396 --> 0:19:18.996 I worry about about people kids starting out now. I 0:19:18.996 --> 0:19:20.796 don't know whether it's the same in the States, but 0:19:21.236 --> 0:19:24.076 you know, there's not many places they can what I 0:19:24.156 --> 0:19:26.716 would call learn their trade, which I think is a 0:19:26.716 --> 0:19:30.676 disservice to them. The first thing that seems to go 0:19:30.716 --> 0:19:35.316 when money is short is the arts is very annoying 0:19:35.516 --> 0:19:40.436 and stupid culturally, frankly, But when they realized that I 0:19:40.476 --> 0:19:46.996 could actually hold the stage on my own. I had 0:19:47.596 --> 0:19:50.476 years and years, about thirty odd years of forty years 0:19:50.916 --> 0:19:55.036 of performing like that. Although my albums are mainly with 0:19:56.116 --> 0:20:00.796 a band with guys and girls playing, I should think 0:20:00.836 --> 0:20:05.996 probably ninety percent of my performances over fifty odd years 0:20:06.356 --> 0:20:10.516 have been me solo on stage kind of four guitars 0:20:10.996 --> 0:20:15.156 and a keyboard. And well, the other thing is once 0:20:15.236 --> 0:20:17.716 we started recording, because I think the first thing we had, 0:20:17.756 --> 0:20:22.476 the first on the first album, and the first song 0:20:22.516 --> 0:20:25.956 that we recall a turntable hit. It was a radio hit, 0:20:26.356 --> 0:20:28.076 and every said it's always going to get this is 0:20:28.076 --> 0:20:30.996 going to chart. There's a song called make my Day. 0:20:32.436 --> 0:20:35.236 I find I kind of got channeled into something that 0:20:35.396 --> 0:20:37.556 I was quite happy with because I could do it. 0:20:37.676 --> 0:20:43.036 It was obviously me. But jazz and funk and blues 0:20:44.756 --> 0:20:48.436 were not part of that deal. So they may occasionally 0:20:48.476 --> 0:20:55.116 slip in over those years. But and I'm no, I mean, 0:20:55.116 --> 0:20:57.756 that's not a fault. You know, it's not that that 0:20:57.476 --> 0:21:00.836 wasn't anything about the music business saying oh you can 0:21:00.916 --> 0:21:05.116 only do this, But that's just the general trend of 0:21:05.196 --> 0:21:05.796 how it went. 0:21:06.156 --> 0:21:08.356 But you know, you think about your first three albums, 0:21:08.356 --> 0:21:11.156 the first one your title it's you with the guitar 0:21:11.436 --> 0:21:14.876 looking very singer songwritery or you know, so maybe I 0:21:14.876 --> 0:21:17.316 could see how they could think folk and then the singer, 0:21:17.516 --> 0:21:20.276 and then the singer and the song is your second album, 0:21:20.356 --> 0:21:22.236 and then you know, the third album is again it's 0:21:22.276 --> 0:21:24.596 you with the guitar on the cover. So I mean, 0:21:25.236 --> 0:21:28.996 I guess I see why the image might People might 0:21:29.036 --> 0:21:30.956 see the image and think, oh, well, you know it's folks, 0:21:30.956 --> 0:21:33.316 and you know, you got your cat Stevens around and 0:21:33.396 --> 0:21:36.116 your who are you know, whoever else, and so it 0:21:36.236 --> 0:21:37.036 fit a niche. 0:21:37.636 --> 0:21:41.596 Well, that was also the time when you you were 0:21:41.636 --> 0:21:43.636 asked could you please smile? 0:21:45.396 --> 0:21:46.556 And how did you take that? 0:21:49.076 --> 0:21:51.556 Well? I kind of, I mean I kind of thought 0:21:51.676 --> 0:21:53.476 it's not my job to get in their way. They 0:21:53.516 --> 0:21:56.836 know what they're doing. So it took me a while. 0:21:57.116 --> 0:21:59.276 I mean, there was some difficulty in so far as 0:21:59.316 --> 0:22:02.636 I could only talk music, and the music business is 0:22:02.676 --> 0:22:05.436 not filled with people who know anything about music. 0:22:06.196 --> 0:22:08.156 There are people, but it's not filled with people. 0:22:08.356 --> 0:22:11.636 Yeah, but it's not filled with them. And I happened 0:22:11.636 --> 0:22:16.356 to be at the situation where I could only talk music. 0:22:16.396 --> 0:22:19.316 So it was a matter of me explaining and I 0:22:19.356 --> 0:22:22.836 and I also got into all show me a while 0:22:22.836 --> 0:22:26.316 to get out of believing that people who were successful 0:22:26.316 --> 0:22:29.876 in the music business knew about music. 0:22:30.516 --> 0:22:33.996 Well, I mean, let's just say you signed with with 0:22:33.996 --> 0:22:36.236 with Pie Records. Who I mean we were just talking 0:22:36.276 --> 0:22:38.436 about Ray Davies. I mean, the Kinks were signed a 0:22:38.516 --> 0:22:43.036 Pie and you know, they did not get Ray and 0:22:43.156 --> 0:22:45.076 Davies did not get along with the label sort of 0:22:45.076 --> 0:22:47.196 felt that they had more of a pop sensibility and 0:22:47.276 --> 0:22:49.916 weren't weren't interested in his experimenting, you know, in terms 0:22:49.916 --> 0:22:51.196 of sound and song. 0:22:51.276 --> 0:22:53.916 And I have to say I did not get on 0:22:54.036 --> 0:22:54.516 with it. 0:22:54.756 --> 0:22:58.756 Right you you allowed it to sort of. 0:22:59.236 --> 0:23:03.436 Well, I take responsibility. I mean, I take responsibility for 0:23:03.476 --> 0:23:04.036 my career. 0:23:04.236 --> 0:23:04.476 Okay. 0:23:04.596 --> 0:23:07.276 I mean I can bitch if I wanted to, but 0:23:07.356 --> 0:23:08.356 it would be misplaced. 0:23:08.596 --> 0:23:08.956 Okay. 0:23:09.396 --> 0:23:13.356 In retrospect, I've been given a great deal of freedom 0:23:14.476 --> 0:23:17.636 in so far as at the time. And I knew 0:23:17.676 --> 0:23:21.636 this very early on. At the time, I was not mainstream. 0:23:22.156 --> 0:23:23.756 It seems like you could have been, though, I mean, 0:23:23.796 --> 0:23:27.396 like even just crying, laughing, loving line not getting the 0:23:27.516 --> 0:23:32.156 US release. You know, it's like you know when you 0:23:32.156 --> 0:23:34.756 think like on Warner Repriez, you know, like Randy Newman's 0:23:34.756 --> 0:23:40.436 getting released and you know who else, you know, some 0:23:40.476 --> 0:23:45.036 of the Beach Boys more experiment Van Dyke Parks right like, 0:23:45.356 --> 0:23:47.916 and you're like, there would have been there could have 0:23:47.916 --> 0:23:49.556 been a market for in the US, you know. 0:23:50.116 --> 0:23:52.036 I got to say, Vandidike Parks would have been a 0:23:52.036 --> 0:23:56.156 bit difficult for the I mean would. 0:23:55.956 --> 0:23:58.436 Have It's difficult for everyone over here too. 0:23:58.516 --> 0:24:04.316 It just wonderful. And I'm so pleased that Van Dyke 0:24:04.436 --> 0:24:10.636 Parks met Brian Wilson. So pleased because I loathed the 0:24:10.716 --> 0:24:15.436 surfing stuff. I just thought, I just thought, well, here's 0:24:15.476 --> 0:24:20.916 another gang of white guys, you know, stealing chut Berry's 0:24:20.956 --> 0:24:25.156 music and not doing it very well with craping. Uh. 0:24:25.196 --> 0:24:30.116 And then of course, if it hadn't been for Parks, 0:24:30.156 --> 0:24:32.996 my very favorite, I mean it. I didn't like the 0:24:32.996 --> 0:24:37.316 Beach Boys until I discovered the Sunflower album and then 0:24:37.356 --> 0:24:41.316 there was backs on that and I thought, ah, this 0:24:41.556 --> 0:24:46.916 is what he really does. Uh. And then still my 0:24:47.076 --> 0:24:50.996 favorite of all the things he's done is this is 0:24:50.996 --> 0:24:55.996 the song surfs up that album is there's a there's 0:24:56.036 --> 0:25:01.276 a line in that which ends with the words of 0:25:01.396 --> 0:25:10.516 Children's Song, at which point, on occasion I find crying. Uh, 0:25:09.276 --> 0:25:14.596 it's it's one of my all time favorite tracks, you know, 0:25:14.716 --> 0:25:19.916 along with five Union other's favorite track, but of the 0:25:19.916 --> 0:25:22.796 Beach choice of his work. And then of course they 0:25:22.836 --> 0:25:25.676 did he and I passed in when he kind of 0:25:25.836 --> 0:25:29.236 vaguely left the Beach Boys. After recovering, he and Van 0:25:29.276 --> 0:25:32.156