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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Since getting his start in the late sixties, Leby

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Speaker 1: Siffrey has had an unflinching commitment to writing exactly what

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Speaker 1: he feels. The result was a debut album that announced

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Speaker 1: a singular talent, a British singer songwriter who can move

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Speaker 1: seamlessly from jazz inflected soul to tender love songs, all

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Speaker 1: while addressing themes of love, identity, and justice that most

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Speaker 1: pop artists wouldn't touch. Over the next decade, Siffrey built

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Speaker 1: the catalog that defied category. Still, his nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: song Crying, Laughing, Loving, Lying became an international success, and

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Speaker 1: his song something Inside So Strong, written years later in

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Speaker 1: response Apartheid, also became a big hit, revealing the true

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Speaker 1: scope of his artistry. And then there's Igattha from his

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five album Remember My Song that would quietly

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Speaker 1: become one of the most sampled songs in hip hop history,

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Speaker 1: famously by doctor dre on Eminem's My Name Is. Yet,

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Speaker 1: despite his influence, which instead of waning, has actually grown

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Speaker 1: over generations, Sefrie has remained something of a hidden treasure,

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Speaker 1: an artist whose integrity and independence kept him just outside

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Speaker 1: of the mainstream On today's episode, I talked to Labby

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Speaker 1: Siffree about growing up in fifties London and the music

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Speaker 1: he discovered that set him on his particular artistic path.

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Speaker 1: Labby also talks about how he wants music to enliven

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Speaker 1: him and how much it annoys him when people tell

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Speaker 1: him to chill, and he explains why, after decades in

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Speaker 1: the music industry, he's never regretted choosing honesty over commercial compromise.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Labby Siffrey Man. So I came to your

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Speaker 1: music through hip hop. I was a big hip hop

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Speaker 1: fan growing up and going looking for samples. I discovered

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Speaker 1: your music a handful of times across a few different

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Speaker 1: using a few different songs. And over the years, some

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Speaker 1: of those songs that have discovered you through have kind

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Speaker 1: of faded away in my in my consciousness, and and

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Speaker 1: and what sort of been left is your your actual

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Speaker 1: real catalog of songs that just every year grow in

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Speaker 1: terms of how much I love them and how much

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Speaker 1: I listened to them. And so it was a really

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Speaker 1: bizarre way to discover a songwriter as delicate as as

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Speaker 1: as your as your songwriting could be in a in

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Speaker 1: a in a songwriting, sometimes it's as fierce in terms

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Speaker 1: of social criticism as your songwriting can be. But uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I discovered you about twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: and and and and so glad that we're able to

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Speaker 1: speak because, like I said, your music is it means

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Speaker 1: a lot. I gotta say, though the British music scene

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Speaker 1: confuses me. It seems like what confuses me is it

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Speaker 1: seems like there were a bunch of different scenes. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that there was like a I just

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Speaker 1: I'm not so familiar with it, I guess, being from

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Speaker 1: the States. And so I was curious when you were

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Speaker 1: growing up playing music before just before you got your

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Speaker 1: contract to do your first album, your self titled album,

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Speaker 1: where were you and what was going on musically?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Well, Christmas nineteen sixty nine, Uh, I was in

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Speaker 2: Amsterdam trying to see if I could well, just to

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Speaker 2: try and see what would happen if I went to

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Speaker 2: a different country, and I was one of the gigs

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Speaker 2: I did was at the parodies. Uh I made I

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Speaker 2: make of friends with a Czech classical guitarist and his lady.

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Speaker 2: He and I we did the We did the Paradiso,

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Speaker 2: which was a kind of a psychedelic club, and he

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Speaker 2: was on stage and he played an excellent classical guitarist

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Speaker 2: and there was, you know, kind of smashing your applause.

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Speaker 2: Then I did my set and it was huge cheers

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Speaker 2: and a huge amount of things. And I came off

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Speaker 2: the stage and I said to him, what was that

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Speaker 2: all about? He said, well, they were they were screening

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Speaker 2: Porner behind you and h and and about. Well, like

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Speaker 2: I said, that was in That was in December sixty nine,

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Speaker 2: and that the and towards the end of that I

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Speaker 2: got a call saying somebody wants to offer you a

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Speaker 2: publishing deal and a record deal. I had a band

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Speaker 2: called Safari up till that moment, and I was on

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Speaker 2: electric guitar, my old Harmony, and for some reason I

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Speaker 2: decided the amp was getting between me and the guitar,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted the Turvius to be one just me

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Speaker 2: and the guitar. So I sold my electric guitar on

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Speaker 2: an acoustic and went off to Amsterdam. And I remember

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Speaker 2: the first gig very unlike me, because I was not

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Speaker 2: the most confident personal in the world at that time.

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Speaker 2: Still probably not, and I asked if I could sit in,

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Speaker 2: which I thought was very brave of me at the time,

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Speaker 2: and I found myself on stage. It was a listening audience.

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Speaker 2: It was the first folk club that I had ever

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Speaker 2: been in. That's one of the things that always amuses

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Speaker 2: me because in my categories, of which there are legions,

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Speaker 2: one of them is folk. I don't know anything about

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Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned. Folk music is Robert Johnson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that I know that I know, But European folk music,

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Speaker 2: I mean, but that's fine, But you know, but I

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Speaker 2: not part of my learning. But it's I think it's

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Speaker 2: probably because I, apart from that I do play occasionally

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Speaker 2: electric guitar, I mainly am seen with an acoustic right.

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Speaker 2: And you have to remember that reviewers and the business generally,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the only way of describing music is to

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Speaker 2: hear it. So people who write about it tend to

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Speaker 2: write in comparisons. They say, that sounds a bit like

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Speaker 2: that person and a bit like that person crossed with

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Speaker 2: that person, and the whole system of saying what the

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Speaker 2: music is just doesn't work. Like I say, the anywhere

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Speaker 2: of describing music is to hear it, so which is

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Speaker 2: why I get soul, flunk jazz was the other one,

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Speaker 2: not independent whatever it is. Indeed, indeed, indeed I get

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Speaker 2: about five.

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Speaker 1: I was reading a Spin article about you, or is

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Speaker 1: an interview with you from nineteen eighty eight, I want

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Speaker 1: to say, and they said, you know, he's he started

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Speaker 1: as an R and B artist in England. That's true,

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Speaker 1: you know, But was that true?

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Speaker 2: I started as a Jimmy Reid clone when I bought

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Speaker 2: my first guitar, a four pound ten from Chapels and

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Speaker 2: Ealing Broadway, if anybody knows that, I got home and

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Speaker 2: I bought two books. In the UK at that time,

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Speaker 2: everybody bought Bert Whedon's Player in a day. But I

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Speaker 2: also got chet Atkins had a by guitar. And I

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Speaker 2: remember sitting on my bed in my bedroom and I

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Speaker 2: couldn't make head or tail either of I just couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't work anything out. But I already felt

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Speaker 2: because from the moment I heard Let's Together by Jimmy Reed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's known mainly for a big boss man,

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Speaker 2: but but the moment I heard Let's Get Together, it

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Speaker 2: was kind of like, I don't know the first time,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like and still still for me, the

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Speaker 2: best work he ever did. Hey, Joe the Hendrix, say

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Speaker 2: and all the first time when we when we were

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Speaker 2: working at an is room jazz club in Drury Lane. Uh,

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Speaker 2: the first time I heard James Brown, I mean, these

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Speaker 2: these changes.

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Speaker 1: For on record.

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Speaker 2: It was on the jukebox there we were in the bar,

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Speaker 2: you know, after after hours, when the audience had everybody

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Speaker 2: gone away, and somebody put James Brown on and and

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Speaker 2: it was kind of my immediate thought was, he's got

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Speaker 2: it backwards. He's playing it backwards, because as a jazz person,

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Speaker 2: I was used to not on the one, not on

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Speaker 2: the one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a strange emphasis, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I was immediately confute, confused, and I knew I

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Speaker 2: really liked it. But but I mean, that was my

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Speaker 2: first impression. He's playing it backwards. What's going on? So

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Speaker 2: so yeah, but like I say, I'm sitting in my

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Speaker 2: bedroom and I but I already felt Jimmy reed and

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Speaker 2: so I looked that, you know, that shuffle and and

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Speaker 2: it went from there, and then I I was, I was,

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Speaker 2: I was sixteen, and then I put a band together

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Speaker 2: with my I've got I've I had four brothers, the

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Speaker 2: brother just above me, was five years older than me.

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Speaker 2: He's he's a Sally responsible uh for a hell of

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Speaker 2: a lot, because he had a really extensive record collection,

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Speaker 2: but he only had the best wow in every genre. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: when I look back, he had the people who really

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Speaker 2: made every genre work.

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Speaker 1: Is that your brother who's on the cover of Children

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Speaker 1: of Children of Children?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's holding me. I'm the baby.

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Speaker 1: That's your brother on that.

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Speaker 2: That's that's that's calling. And so I mean I could say,

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Speaker 2: for example, that I'm an autodidact. Now, oh yeah, I

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Speaker 2: taught myself bullshit. He had a huge record collection whom

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Speaker 2: I like, I say, from Robert Johnson through to Cecil Taylor.

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Speaker 1: How does how do? How do you want? Tomass a

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Speaker 1: collection of of of really choice music from America at

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Speaker 1: that time. Like was it easy to get American records?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean all of us were. I

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Speaker 2: was brought up with the Great American Songbook, and I

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Speaker 2: was brought up with American jazz right the way, you know,

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Speaker 2: passing through our Tatum to Cecil Taylor as piano monk

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Speaker 2: Miles Mengus. I mean I started out as a Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Reid clone, and I had a disturbing piece of information.

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Speaker 2: His son clearly the kind of kid who walking down

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Speaker 2: the school school corridor you trip up, because his bass

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Speaker 2: player was his son, who was either nine or eleven

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Speaker 2: on that track, and it was kind.

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Speaker 1: Of how dare you wait, Jimmy, Jimmy Reid's.

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Speaker 2: Son, and it was kind of how do you be

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Speaker 2: so talented and be able to do that groove and

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Speaker 2: on that track. I don't know whether it's true, but

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Speaker 2: I was told that his son at the time of

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Speaker 2: that recording was either nine or eleven.

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Speaker 1: Nine, ten or eleven on Let's Get Together, which was

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Speaker 1: made famous later by I think cant He did like

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Speaker 1: a version that was a hit.

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Speaker 2: And oh right, I mean that's that track still living,

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Speaker 2: It's that track is a part Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a strange. It's a strange. It's a shuffle,

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Speaker 1: as you said, but it's a He has a really like,

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Speaker 1: kind of laconic kind of well well, I mean, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, Jimmy Reed. I always I also say this about

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Speaker 2: women Morton the composer, although it's a little unfair on Morton,

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Speaker 2: but it's pretty much Walton that they both have only

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Speaker 2: one thing that they do, but both of them are fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I mean to get that shuffle right,

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think I've heard anybody else be

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Speaker 2: able to do it right. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Keith Richards famously, you know, is a fan of that

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Speaker 1: as well, and he tries, you know, he has his

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Speaker 1: version of it, but it's not the same.

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Speaker 2: No, which is one of the funny things about we

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Speaker 2: were talking about genres. I mean, R and B now

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Speaker 2: is kind of what we used to call lovers lovers

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Speaker 2: rock ah and R and B then had muscle now

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Speaker 2: if I mean, I I must say one of the

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Speaker 2: things that well, I do find a little bit is

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Speaker 2: that I keep being told to chill.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean explain music?

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Speaker 2: Well, I go, you know, you go from music to

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Speaker 2: music and music and it's always recommended because it's music

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Speaker 2: to chill too. I don't want to chill. I want

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Speaker 2: to be enlivenment. You know, I don't. I don't. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to chill.

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Speaker 1: You know, I agree, I agree, And you know, people

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Speaker 1: think about I love jazz as well, and people always

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Speaker 1: think about jazz as music you put to cool out

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Speaker 1: to chill, and it's like the first jazz is really

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Speaker 1: it energizes you. You get anxious. Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly,

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Speaker 1: you could get wired. Yeah, I get wired listening to jazz.

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Speaker 1: You know, I get the most energy I could get

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Speaker 1: from anything.

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Speaker 2: Clearly, also, they've never heard of David Sampon uh, and

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Speaker 2: they've clearly never heard Paul Gonzales twenty minutes solo chill sorry.

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Speaker 1: Man mingus, chilling, mingus.

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Speaker 2: I think Monk is still my favorite pianist. Jazz pianis

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Speaker 2: so yeah. I mean I I like I say, it's

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Speaker 2: it's uh. And of course, of course when he gets

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Speaker 2: up the dance with Charlie Rowse or most most Underrated,

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Speaker 2: I love that band that those those that that's a

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Speaker 2: great band. And like I say, for me, my I

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Speaker 2: was talking about. You know, I could say I was

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Speaker 2: I taught myself, but in fact I was taught because

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Speaker 2: Collie had such like I said, with her, he had

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Speaker 2: the cream of of every genre that he bought. And

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Speaker 2: so I was taught by every musician I'd ever heard.

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Speaker 2: On that record collection. You don't do this kind of

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Speaker 2: thing on your own, you know. I remember hearing there

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Speaker 2: was a rock god being interviewed and there and he

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Speaker 2: was asked what his influences were, and he said, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't have any influences. It's just me. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: you're either a liar or a genius, and I know

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Speaker 2: you're not a genius. You know.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember who that was?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't remember. Well, it was the kind of

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Speaker 2: person to very quickly forget. So, yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 2: had so, I probably had thousands of teachers.

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Speaker 1: Can you can you locate that Jimmy Reid blues shuffle

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Speaker 1: thing and you're playing at all because it's funny. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I hear it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I used to play it exactly

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Speaker 2: as he played it. Now I play it differently. Before before,

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Speaker 2: I mean before I had my first record deal, I'm

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Speaker 2: publishing deal. On the same day, I had a band

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Speaker 2: call Safari, and we did We did some wood stuff

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Speaker 2: and I arranged several backrack how David's song cool. But

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Speaker 2: because I come basically from the jazz tradition, I've never

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Speaker 2: seen the point of doing a cover where the only

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Speaker 2: thing that changes is the singer's voice. The whole idea

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Speaker 2: is that you're supposed to try, at least to take

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Speaker 2: the material and put you into it. If you've got

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Speaker 2: somebody to put into it. It's to take you and

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Speaker 2: make it your own, even if it's not very good

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Speaker 2: your own. But you're supposed to do what you do.

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Speaker 2: My good friend Woody who was the drum well, we

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Speaker 2: all met, Woody, Bob and I we met. Our first

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Speaker 2: real work was with a guy called Hamilton King's Blues Messengers,

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Speaker 2: which I replaced the Kings. I replaced Ray Davis as

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Speaker 2: the guitarist in that band. And what he was on drums,

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Speaker 2: Bob was on his Hammond B three.

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Speaker 1: And did you know Ray Davies at that time?

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Speaker 2: No, no, I no, And it's actually it's only in

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Speaker 2: the past ten years that I you know, it just

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Speaker 2: came across Hamilton's band and in which the article said

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Speaker 2: that Ray Davis was a guitarist, not Dave Davis, who

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Speaker 2: was the lead guitarist in the.

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Speaker 1: King Yeah, Ray a songwriter.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sorry. I replaced him with Hamilton King's whose Messengers.

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Speaker 1: I think was in that as well, the drummer of Fleetwood.

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Speaker 1: At a certain point it.

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Speaker 2: Might will have done. I mean Hamilton Hamilton influenced a

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Speaker 2: few people still see him now another giant. Yeah. That

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Speaker 2: The thing about me is that I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: have one genre that I write in. But when I

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Speaker 2: got my contract, my first contract, when they discovered that

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Speaker 2: I could actually hold the stage on my own. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I supported people like Chicago at the Olympia in Paris,

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Speaker 2: me and my guitar and you walk on stage, nobody

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Speaker 2: knows who the hell you are. I had learnt because I,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the gigs that I did

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Speaker 2: once I had my contract were in what we call

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Speaker 2: working men's clubs, and they were also in clubs where

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Speaker 2: you know, you know, I remember one in whole huge club.

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Speaker 2: These were places where people went to eat, drink and

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Speaker 2: have a laugh. And I did that for quite a

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Speaker 2: few years, and I had to learn how to walk

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Speaker 2: on stage, sit down and make them be quiet from

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Speaker 2: listen and I this is one of the reasons why

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Speaker 2: I worry about about people kids starting out now. I

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Speaker 2: don't know whether it's the same in the States, but

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Speaker 2: you know, there's not many places they can what I

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Speaker 2: would call learn their trade, which I think is a

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Speaker 2: disservice to them. The first thing that seems to go

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Speaker 2: when money is short is the arts is very annoying

301
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Speaker 2: and stupid culturally, frankly, But when they realized that I

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Speaker 2: could actually hold the stage on my own. I had

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Speaker 2: years and years, about thirty odd years of forty years

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Speaker 2: of performing like that. Although my albums are mainly with

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Speaker 2: a band with guys and girls playing, I should think

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Speaker 2: probably ninety percent of my performances over fifty odd years

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Speaker 2: have been me solo on stage kind of four guitars

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Speaker 2: and a keyboard. And well, the other thing is once

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Speaker 2: we started recording, because I think the first thing we had,

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Speaker 2: the first on the first album, and the first song

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Speaker 2: that we recall a turntable hit. It was a radio hit,

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Speaker 2: and every said it's always going to get this is

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Speaker 2: going to chart. There's a song called make my Day.

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Speaker 2: I find I kind of got channeled into something that

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Speaker 2: I was quite happy with because I could do it.

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Speaker 2: It was obviously me. But jazz and funk and blues

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Speaker 2: were not part of that deal. So they may occasionally

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Speaker 2: slip in over those years. But and I'm no, I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's not a fault. You know, it's not that that

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Speaker 2: wasn't anything about the music business saying oh you can

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Speaker 2: only do this, But that's just the general trend of

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Speaker 2: how it went.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you think about your first three albums,

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Speaker 1: the first one your title it's you with the guitar

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Speaker 1: looking very singer songwritery or you know, so maybe I

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Speaker 1: could see how they could think folk and then the singer,

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Speaker 1: and then the singer and the song is your second album,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, the third album is again it's

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Speaker 1: you with the guitar on the cover. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess I see why the image might People might

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Speaker 1: see the image and think, oh, well, you know it's folks,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you got your cat Stevens around and

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Speaker 1: your who are you know, whoever else, and so it

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Speaker 1: fit a niche.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was also the time when you you were

336
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Speaker 2: asked could you please smile?

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Speaker 1: And how did you take that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I kind of, I mean I kind of thought

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Speaker 2: it's not my job to get in their way. They

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Speaker 2: know what they're doing. So it took me a while.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was some difficulty in so far as

342
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Speaker 2: I could only talk music, and the music business is

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Speaker 2: not filled with people who know anything about music.

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Speaker 1: There are people, but it's not filled with people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not filled with them. And I happened

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Speaker 2: to be at the situation where I could only talk music.

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Speaker 2: So it was a matter of me explaining and I

348
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Speaker 2: and I also got into all show me a while

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Speaker 2: to get out of believing that people who were successful

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Speaker 2: in the music business knew about music.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, let's just say you signed with with

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Speaker 1: with Pie Records. Who I mean we were just talking

353
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Speaker 1: about Ray Davies. I mean, the Kinks were signed a

354
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Speaker 1: Pie and you know, they did not get Ray and

355
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Speaker 1: Davies did not get along with the label sort of

356
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Speaker 1: felt that they had more of a pop sensibility and

357
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Speaker 1: weren't weren't interested in his experimenting, you know, in terms

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Speaker 1: of sound and song.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say I did not get on

360
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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 1: Right you you allowed it to sort of.

362
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Speaker 2: Well, I take responsibility. I mean, I take responsibility for

363
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Speaker 2: my career.

364
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Speaker 1: Okay.

365
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Speaker 2: I mean I can bitch if I wanted to, but

366
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Speaker 2: it would be misplaced.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

368
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Speaker 2: In retrospect, I've been given a great deal of freedom

369
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Speaker 2: in so far as at the time. And I knew

370
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Speaker 2: this very early on. At the time, I was not mainstream.

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Speaker 1: It seems like you could have been, though, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like even just crying, laughing, loving line not getting the

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Speaker 1: US release. You know, it's like you know when you

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Speaker 1: think like on Warner Repriez, you know, like Randy Newman's

375
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Speaker 1: getting released and you know who else, you know, some

376
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Speaker 1: of the Beach Boys more experiment Van Dyke Parks right like,

377
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Speaker 1: and you're like, there would have been there could have

378
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Speaker 1: been a market for in the US, you know.

379
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Speaker 2: I got to say, Vandidike Parks would have been a

380
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Speaker 2: bit difficult for the I mean would.

381
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Speaker 1: Have It's difficult for everyone over here too.

382
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Speaker 2: It just wonderful. And I'm so pleased that Van Dyke

383
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Speaker 2: Parks met Brian Wilson. So pleased because I loathed the

384
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Speaker 2: surfing stuff. I just thought, I just thought, well, here's

385
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Speaker 2: another gang of white guys, you know, stealing chut Berry's

386
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Speaker 2: music and not doing it very well with craping. Uh.

387
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Speaker 2: And then of course, if it hadn't been for Parks,

388
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Speaker 2: my very favorite, I mean it. I didn't like the

389
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Speaker 2: Beach Boys until I discovered the Sunflower album and then

390
00:24:37,356 --> 00:24:41,316
Speaker 2: there was backs on that and I thought, ah, this

391
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Speaker 2: is what he really does. Uh. And then still my

392
00:24:47,076 --> 00:24:50,996
Speaker 2: favorite of all the things he's done is this is

393
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Speaker 2: the song surfs up that album is there's a there's

394
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Speaker 2: a line in that which ends with the words of

395
00:25:01,396 --> 00:25:10,516
Speaker 2: Children's Song, at which point, on occasion I find crying. Uh,

396
00:25:09,276 --> 00:25:14,596
Speaker 2: it's it's one of my all time favorite tracks, you know,

397
00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:19,916
Speaker 2: along with five Union other's favorite track, but of the

398
00:25:19,916 --> 00:25:22,796
Speaker 2: Beach choice of his work. And then of course they

399
00:25:22,836 --> 00:25:25,676
Speaker 2: did he and I passed in when he kind of

400
00:25:25,836 --> 00:25:29,236
Speaker 2: vaguely left the Beach Boys. After recovering, he and Van

401
00:25:29,276 --> 00:25:32,156
Speaker 2: Dyke Parks did a really good album together. But I'm

402
00:25:32,156 --> 00:25:33,276
Speaker 2: so pleased that they met.

403
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Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from labby Siffrey after the break.

404
00:25:41,876 --> 00:25:43,516
Speaker 1: What else were you listening to at the time, Because

405
00:25:43,516 --> 00:25:45,476
Speaker 1: I mean, your music really is one of one. It

406
00:25:45,476 --> 00:25:48,036
Speaker 1: doesn't sound much like anything else. What were you taking

407
00:25:48,076 --> 00:25:51,276
Speaker 1: in at the time of early and you like Steps

408
00:25:51,316 --> 00:25:54,636
Speaker 1: in the early seventies, at the time of seventy seventy

409
00:25:54,636 --> 00:25:58,716
Speaker 1: one seventy two, as you're making those first few records.

410
00:25:59,676 --> 00:26:04,996
Speaker 2: What was I listening to? Ah? Well, one of the

411
00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:13,436
Speaker 2: things was I felt very lonely throughout my career because

412
00:26:13,476 --> 00:26:19,236
Speaker 2: I couldn't find people in the UK who were writing

413
00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:23,156
Speaker 2: anything that seemed related to what I was writing, very

414
00:26:23,276 --> 00:26:29,116
Speaker 2: much as far as subject matter is concerned, but also stylistically.

415
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Speaker 2: And it was not until I found this is early seventies,

416
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Speaker 2: until I found the kind of I suppose the triumvirate

417
00:26:41,796 --> 00:26:47,556
Speaker 2: of Brandy Newman, Harry Nilsen and Laura and Iro. Wow,

418
00:26:47,716 --> 00:26:54,836
Speaker 2: it's those three, I mean New York Tenanderberry. Really really

419
00:26:55,036 --> 00:26:57,956
Speaker 2: it should be one of the things that if you

420
00:26:57,996 --> 00:26:59,596
Speaker 2: haven't heard this, I'm going to lock you in a

421
00:26:59,716 --> 00:27:02,316
Speaker 2: room and handcuff you and you're going to listen to this.

422
00:27:02,596 --> 00:27:05,316
Speaker 2: And it was only when I discovered those three that

423
00:27:05,436 --> 00:27:09,116
Speaker 2: I thought that I felt I'd found a home. Wow,

424
00:27:10,196 --> 00:27:14,516
Speaker 2: that I found people who were kind of doing what

425
00:27:14,596 --> 00:27:17,476
Speaker 2: I was trying to do. So, I mean that was

426
00:27:17,596 --> 00:27:20,076
Speaker 2: that was that was a great comfort to me because

427
00:27:20,116 --> 00:27:26,876
Speaker 2: I did feel in the UK very alone stylistically.

428
00:27:27,716 --> 00:27:30,716
Speaker 1: Uh, what was it you felt you were trying to

429
00:27:30,756 --> 00:27:32,556
Speaker 1: do that they were doing as well.

430
00:27:33,356 --> 00:27:38,796
Speaker 2: Funny, it's not. This is one of the reasons why

431
00:27:38,836 --> 00:27:43,236
Speaker 2: I you know, you know the business about me having

432
00:27:43,236 --> 00:27:46,836
Speaker 2: a hard time in music business. I was very fortunate

433
00:27:47,996 --> 00:27:53,476
Speaker 2: because my first manager, who's really a real one, was

434
00:27:53,476 --> 00:27:55,716
Speaker 2: was guy called Peter Gormley, who in fact was also

435
00:27:55,836 --> 00:28:01,676
Speaker 2: the head of Festival International, which was the who I

436
00:28:01,756 --> 00:28:06,876
Speaker 2: signed with. And uh, I actually think they looked after

437
00:28:06,956 --> 00:28:12,996
Speaker 2: me in retrospect because I was never a really huge seller,

438
00:28:14,156 --> 00:28:18,116
Speaker 2: you know, commercially, I was not hugely commercially successful, and

439
00:28:18,276 --> 00:28:25,876
Speaker 2: at one stage they thought that maybe they put me

440
00:28:25,916 --> 00:28:33,716
Speaker 2: with certain particular writers who who were making more commercially

441
00:28:34,396 --> 00:28:40,796
Speaker 2: viable stuff, that it might rub off on me. Of course,

442
00:28:40,996 --> 00:28:45,716
Speaker 2: what's the foolish thing to think. But it made me

443
00:28:45,996 --> 00:28:51,036
Speaker 2: examine what I was trying to do. I started asking

444
00:28:51,116 --> 00:28:54,996
Speaker 2: myself what am I trying to do? And I remember,

445
00:28:55,076 --> 00:28:57,956
Speaker 2: rather I won't mention, you know, but this this is

446
00:28:57,996 --> 00:29:01,516
Speaker 2: a guy, you know, multiple hits and written for outloads

447
00:29:01,556 --> 00:29:04,476
Speaker 2: and loads of people. And I asked myself the question

448
00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:07,396
Speaker 2: of well, what am I trying to do? And I

449
00:29:07,476 --> 00:29:11,236
Speaker 2: came to the conclusion. My first conclusion was, well, they're

450
00:29:11,236 --> 00:29:13,276
Speaker 2: trying to write a hit and I'm trying to write

451
00:29:13,276 --> 00:29:17,196
Speaker 2: a good song. Immediately after which I thought, what the

452
00:29:17,196 --> 00:29:21,036
Speaker 2: hell do you mean by a good song? If five

453
00:29:21,076 --> 00:29:25,236
Speaker 2: million people or if a million people are emotionally moved

454
00:29:25,636 --> 00:29:29,196
Speaker 2: by a track that you think is rubbish, hang on,

455
00:29:29,876 --> 00:29:31,756
Speaker 2: that's a good song. What do you mean by a

456
00:29:31,796 --> 00:29:36,396
Speaker 2: good song? So which is my com was my conversation

457
00:29:36,476 --> 00:29:39,436
Speaker 2: with myself. You know, that's just lazy, siffy, you know,

458
00:29:39,636 --> 00:29:42,396
Speaker 2: forget about good song. And I finally came to the

459
00:29:42,396 --> 00:29:46,436
Speaker 2: conclusion that the problem was not a problem as far

460
00:29:46,436 --> 00:29:48,876
Speaker 2: as I was concerned, was that I wanted to write

461
00:29:49,556 --> 00:29:58,916
Speaker 2: useful songs, societally useful, said useful songs. That was the

462
00:29:58,956 --> 00:30:00,996
Speaker 2: conclusion I came. I mean, other people might come to

463
00:30:01,076 --> 00:30:05,356
Speaker 2: completely different conclusion, but that's what I realized I was

464
00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:09,236
Speaker 2: trying to do, which was one of the reasons I

465
00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:13,396
Speaker 2: think they they they were kind of patient because I

466
00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:15,556
Speaker 2: was bringing in huge amounts of money. And of course

467
00:30:15,796 --> 00:30:18,436
Speaker 2: I was one of those people then who and just

468
00:30:18,436 --> 00:30:22,716
Speaker 2: about every company has that, they have one or two

469
00:30:22,756 --> 00:30:26,236
Speaker 2: people who bring in all the money, and then they

470
00:30:26,276 --> 00:30:29,916
Speaker 2: can take other artists who they think can do well

471
00:30:30,236 --> 00:30:32,156
Speaker 2: but not that well. But they don't need to do

472
00:30:32,276 --> 00:30:34,516
Speaker 2: that well because they've got you know, they've got the

473
00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:38,876
Speaker 2: banc or someone of that of that, And so I was.

474
00:30:39,036 --> 00:30:41,316
Speaker 2: I was one of those artists who occasionally had a

475
00:30:41,396 --> 00:30:46,756
Speaker 2: hit uh and occasionally had a couple of covers, but

476
00:30:46,876 --> 00:30:47,756
Speaker 2: not a big sell.

477
00:30:48,756 --> 00:30:51,596
Speaker 1: And and and who was subsidizing it was like Olivia

478
00:30:51,636 --> 00:30:52,716
Speaker 1: Newton John who was.

479
00:30:54,356 --> 00:30:58,676
Speaker 2: Managed Actually the main the main money maker in Gorney

480
00:30:58,716 --> 00:31:00,476
Speaker 2: management was griff Richard.

481
00:31:00,836 --> 00:31:04,756
Speaker 1: Ah Shadows Shadows, right, yeah.

482
00:31:04,276 --> 00:31:09,236
Speaker 2: Then Olivia, and then Dahlia Larvae and for a while

483
00:31:09,356 --> 00:31:14,516
Speaker 2: Cardia Glen Cardier, who I produced, I produced a track

484
00:31:15,156 --> 00:31:17,676
Speaker 2: which I'm still very very proud of. He wrote a song,

485
00:31:19,636 --> 00:31:21,436
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's online and then my memory is

486
00:31:21,476 --> 00:31:24,436
Speaker 2: going again. We wait, it will come back to me.

487
00:31:25,356 --> 00:31:32,396
Speaker 2: Really good track. Uh when the fire dies uh uh.

488
00:31:32,556 --> 00:31:35,636
Speaker 2: And I produced that. It's happened a couple of times

489
00:31:35,636 --> 00:31:41,516
Speaker 2: when I've heard somebody and thought that's mine, that I

490
00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:43,396
Speaker 2: got it. You know, I gotta, I gotta produce it.

491
00:31:43,436 --> 00:31:45,596
Speaker 2: I gotta, I gotta do an arrangement and produce this

492
00:31:45,636 --> 00:31:51,636
Speaker 2: guy and uh and and that went very well. They

493
00:31:51,836 --> 00:31:53,636
Speaker 2: I don't listen to my stuff very much, but I

494
00:31:54,076 --> 00:31:57,836
Speaker 2: occasionally come across things and that track still gets to me.

495
00:31:59,196 --> 00:32:02,756
Speaker 2: So yeah, I so in fact, record record business wise,

496
00:32:04,076 --> 00:32:07,916
Speaker 2: I think I I think I've been very fortunate, and

497
00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:11,436
Speaker 2: I can certainly think of other people who originally I

498
00:32:11,516 --> 00:32:14,836
Speaker 2: would would would could have signed with who if I

499
00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:17,516
Speaker 2: had signed with today, I'd be broke.

500
00:32:19,516 --> 00:32:21,796
Speaker 1: Fair enough I signed.

501
00:32:21,996 --> 00:32:25,116
Speaker 2: I was fortunate that I actually signed with a group

502
00:32:25,156 --> 00:32:29,796
Speaker 2: of people who were honest, and I still, fifty odd

503
00:32:29,876 --> 00:32:31,796
Speaker 2: years later, worked with three of them.

504
00:32:32,436 --> 00:32:32,796
Speaker 1: Wow.

505
00:32:34,836 --> 00:32:40,156
Speaker 2: One in particular, Bran Good. I did the art, he

506
00:32:40,276 --> 00:32:41,036
Speaker 2: does the commerce.

507
00:32:41,556 --> 00:32:46,996
Speaker 1: Were there other labels or management groups you were speaking with.

508
00:32:47,556 --> 00:32:50,036
Speaker 2: No, I mean I I when what when the call came?

509
00:32:50,956 --> 00:32:52,916
Speaker 2: You know, first I was publishing and the recording for

510
00:32:52,996 --> 00:32:56,316
Speaker 2: the contracts up and down that time. I wasn't thinking

511
00:32:56,316 --> 00:33:01,956
Speaker 2: about anything. I mean, I no, I the business. It

512
00:33:01,956 --> 00:33:05,076
Speaker 2: would just never have occurred to me. People never believed

513
00:33:05,076 --> 00:33:07,196
Speaker 2: They say it, eh, god, it's bookshit.

514
00:33:08,956 --> 00:33:09,876
Speaker 1: I never.

515
00:33:11,756 --> 00:33:15,796
Speaker 2: Yet. Fame and fortune was not part of my plan,

516
00:33:16,076 --> 00:33:20,116
Speaker 2: not because I had a plan, It's just that they

517
00:33:20,196 --> 00:33:23,836
Speaker 2: never occurred to me. Yeah, I mean I decided at

518
00:33:23,876 --> 00:33:27,396
Speaker 2: thirteen that my first decison was I was going to

519
00:33:27,396 --> 00:33:30,156
Speaker 2: be a bass singer. I mean, I remember college took

520
00:33:30,196 --> 00:33:33,276
Speaker 2: me for two one hundred Oxford Street, which was a

521
00:33:33,356 --> 00:33:38,076
Speaker 2: jazz club, and a vibe slayer called Bill Losage and

522
00:33:38,116 --> 00:33:40,836
Speaker 2: his band were playing, and it was one of those

523
00:33:40,916 --> 00:33:43,636
Speaker 2: raised stages, and I remember I Holly was standing there,

524
00:33:44,116 --> 00:33:46,116
Speaker 2: and I was thirteen, and I was quite sure. I

525
00:33:46,116 --> 00:33:49,356
Speaker 2: didn't start growing really until later, so I was still

526
00:33:49,436 --> 00:33:52,316
Speaker 2: quite small, and I'm looking up and Bill Sage had

527
00:33:53,276 --> 00:33:58,076
Speaker 2: a girl singer with him. Excuse the arrogance that's going

528
00:33:58,116 --> 00:34:01,076
Speaker 2: to follow here. I was thirteen years of age and

529
00:34:01,116 --> 00:34:03,516
Speaker 2: I was looking up at her, and I had two

530
00:34:03,636 --> 00:34:09,716
Speaker 2: thoughts separated by about two seconds. My first what was

531
00:34:10,836 --> 00:34:15,716
Speaker 2: I can do that, immediately followed by I can do

532
00:34:15,796 --> 00:34:22,156
Speaker 2: better than that. I'm certain news. I'm thirteen years of age,

533
00:34:22,676 --> 00:34:26,436
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to make music. And the other

534
00:34:26,676 --> 00:34:29,276
Speaker 2: part of it, the business and the money and all

535
00:34:29,316 --> 00:34:33,676
Speaker 2: of the fame and well fames another thing. Uh it

536
00:34:33,876 --> 00:34:36,316
Speaker 2: just it wasn't that I you know, I had a

537
00:34:36,396 --> 00:34:38,996
Speaker 2: plan or I decided to do this or did I

538
00:34:38,996 --> 00:34:42,116
Speaker 2: didn't make any of those decisions. I just wanted. I

539
00:34:42,196 --> 00:34:43,796
Speaker 2: just wanted to be able to earn enough money so

540
00:34:43,836 --> 00:34:45,636
Speaker 2: I didn't have to do a day job and I

541
00:34:45,636 --> 00:34:51,036
Speaker 2: could just the musician. But anyway, yes, that was my

542
00:34:51,316 --> 00:34:53,196
Speaker 2: That was my first thing is I wanted to be

543
00:34:53,236 --> 00:34:55,316
Speaker 2: a I wanted to be a singer. And I mean

544
00:34:55,356 --> 00:34:58,236
Speaker 2: one of my greatest influences, I suppose as a vocalist

545
00:34:59,876 --> 00:35:03,676
Speaker 2: probably be the Holiday, would be at the top the

546
00:35:03,716 --> 00:35:13,156
Speaker 2: Divine's era, of course, be Joe Williams, Melton May, Jimmy

547
00:35:13,196 --> 00:35:20,156
Speaker 2: Read Hallan Wolf, Uh, Alan Wolf. I don't think I'll

548
00:35:20,196 --> 00:35:22,876
Speaker 2: ever get away from Alen Wold, and of course before that,

549
00:35:22,916 --> 00:35:28,236
Speaker 2: Fats Domino, who his timing is incredible, The end of

550
00:35:28,316 --> 00:35:35,156
Speaker 2: every line is perfect. Mm hmm, uh'd something. And of

551
00:35:35,196 --> 00:35:40,796
Speaker 2: course Louis Armstrong, the first jes singer whose timing and

552
00:35:40,996 --> 00:35:48,796
Speaker 2: phrasing is an embarrassment to us. All yeah, it was

553
00:35:48,876 --> 00:35:51,996
Speaker 2: still you know, it's kind of yea, I give in.

554
00:35:52,156 --> 00:35:55,156
Speaker 2: It's like it's like that bark moment, which actually I

555
00:35:55,196 --> 00:36:00,996
Speaker 2: took quite seriously, the bark moment. I remember buying, uh,

556
00:36:01,036 --> 00:36:04,756
Speaker 2: the partitas for for for solo violin, and I put

557
00:36:04,796 --> 00:36:10,196
Speaker 2: it on and it was actually had this conversation with myself,

558
00:36:10,236 --> 00:36:15,396
Speaker 2: which was, what's the bloody point? How dare you call

559
00:36:15,436 --> 00:36:18,916
Speaker 2: yourself the writer of music? What's the bloody point? BArch

560
00:36:19,036 --> 00:36:23,756
Speaker 2: has done everything, there's nothing left to do. In the

561
00:36:23,796 --> 00:36:28,236
Speaker 2: same way that Miles said of Louis Armstrong, Louis played.

562
00:36:28,316 --> 00:36:33,476
Speaker 2: Louis plays everything, including the modern stuff. Now, Louis wasn't Miles,

563
00:36:34,196 --> 00:36:36,676
Speaker 2: but I knew exactly what Miles meant.

564
00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:39,596
Speaker 1: And you know what's fascinating about Louis too, I mean

565
00:36:39,636 --> 00:36:42,116
Speaker 1: he did fall out of I was gonna say he

566
00:36:42,116 --> 00:36:43,276
Speaker 1: never went out of side. He did fall out of

567
00:36:43,276 --> 00:36:45,436
Speaker 1: style a bit because I guess during you know, like

568
00:36:46,436 --> 00:36:48,716
Speaker 1: during the Bebop era, you know, Dizzy made fun of

569
00:36:48,756 --> 00:36:50,556
Speaker 1: him a bit, but he always had an audience like

570
00:36:50,596 --> 00:36:54,476
Speaker 1: Louis always had from beginning to end. He always had

571
00:36:54,476 --> 00:36:56,756
Speaker 1: an audience, which is fascinating to me, you know.

572
00:36:57,036 --> 00:37:01,076
Speaker 2: We also for me as a singer, his timing and

573
00:37:01,156 --> 00:37:04,276
Speaker 2: phrasing yeah are remarkable.

574
00:37:04,396 --> 00:37:07,756
Speaker 1: Yeah what he lacks in and maybe uh, you know,

575
00:37:07,876 --> 00:37:11,756
Speaker 1: some people don't prefer the dam you know as well.

576
00:37:11,796 --> 00:37:14,876
Speaker 2: I mean, well, along come, you know, I mean along

577
00:37:14,956 --> 00:37:19,596
Speaker 2: comes very White. There hasn't been a bass baritone in

578
00:37:19,636 --> 00:37:24,036
Speaker 2: the charts apart from Barry White. And what another underrated

579
00:37:24,036 --> 00:37:27,156
Speaker 2: person as far as I'm concerned. What an amazing thing

580
00:37:27,236 --> 00:37:28,796
Speaker 2: at what great arrangements?

581
00:37:28,916 --> 00:37:32,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing arrangements, you know.

582
00:37:33,156 --> 00:37:35,356
Speaker 2: So Louis. I mean I never had a problem with

583
00:37:35,396 --> 00:37:39,756
Speaker 2: the voice. I mean, you know, one of the one

584
00:37:39,796 --> 00:37:42,556
Speaker 2: of the one of the frankly I think unfair things

585
00:37:42,636 --> 00:37:45,116
Speaker 2: was the fact that you know, he was always laughing

586
00:37:45,196 --> 00:37:49,076
Speaker 2: and grinning and playing around, which didn't go down down

587
00:37:49,116 --> 00:37:51,916
Speaker 2: too well as far as the civil rights and on

588
00:37:52,196 --> 00:37:58,876
Speaker 2: the movement. But he was not an uncle Tom No, No, yeah,

589
00:37:59,556 --> 00:38:02,916
Speaker 2: you know, not not at all. If you see some

590
00:38:02,996 --> 00:38:05,916
Speaker 2: of his interviews, he is nobody's fool.

591
00:38:06,196 --> 00:38:08,156
Speaker 1: No, And I know, like like like I was saying,

592
00:38:08,156 --> 00:38:11,276
Speaker 1: dizzy Gillespie, like you know, would make fun of him

593
00:38:11,276 --> 00:38:12,836
Speaker 1: openly for for a long time.

594
00:38:13,636 --> 00:38:17,356
Speaker 2: Apologize, but easy to make fun of Louis Armstrong's a

595
00:38:17,356 --> 00:38:18,036
Speaker 2: bit rich.

596
00:38:19,956 --> 00:38:20,196
Speaker 1: Point.

597
00:38:21,076 --> 00:38:22,116
Speaker 2: Go on, that's a bit rich.

598
00:38:22,276 --> 00:38:25,196
Speaker 1: I'll let you say that they're were going.

599
00:38:25,196 --> 00:38:28,436
Speaker 2: To go along the line of cab callaway on from onwards.

600
00:38:28,756 --> 00:38:31,316
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, that's.

601
00:38:31,156 --> 00:38:39,116
Speaker 1: True, that's true. It's a good point. It's a good point. Yeah, yeah,

602
00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:42,756
Speaker 1: one last break and we'll be back with labby Siffrey.

603
00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:49,556
Speaker 1: Throughout your career, I mean, have you always been listening

604
00:38:49,556 --> 00:38:51,356
Speaker 1: to new music as it always been?

605
00:38:52,276 --> 00:38:56,316
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned the Beatles, and that was different. We

606
00:38:57,356 --> 00:39:00,396
Speaker 2: in my little group. I remember Woody and I. I mean,

607
00:39:00,436 --> 00:39:02,716
Speaker 2: Woody is the drama. The drummer played in several bands

608
00:39:02,716 --> 00:39:06,836
Speaker 2: would be he toured with Sonny Stet Wow and uh.

609
00:39:08,916 --> 00:39:13,356
Speaker 2: He and I we would wait for the next Beatle

610
00:39:13,396 --> 00:39:18,396
Speaker 2: album because every album, about five of the albums, every

611
00:39:18,556 --> 00:39:22,596
Speaker 2: album changed the world as as musicians were concerned. I

612
00:39:22,636 --> 00:39:25,716
Speaker 2: remember he and I we were in Padi Circus and

613
00:39:25,756 --> 00:39:28,036
Speaker 2: there was there was a very it was a very

614
00:39:28,156 --> 00:39:30,196
Speaker 2: narrow small shop and it was a music It was

615
00:39:30,196 --> 00:39:32,476
Speaker 2: a record shop and they had speakers on the outside

616
00:39:32,596 --> 00:39:35,876
Speaker 2: and they played, and I remember we were standing and

617
00:39:35,916 --> 00:39:40,876
Speaker 2: we were facing Piccadilly Circus and she's leaving home. Came on.

618
00:39:43,076 --> 00:39:48,156
Speaker 2: I started crying, we're standing there where. Yeah, we're grown guys,

619
00:39:48,196 --> 00:39:53,356
Speaker 2: you know, we're toughies. And I started crying, and I

620
00:39:53,356 --> 00:39:59,316
Speaker 2: I purposely didn't look towards Woody because I was afraid

621
00:39:59,716 --> 00:40:04,156
Speaker 2: that he would be crying too, and then embarrassed. But

622
00:40:04,396 --> 00:40:08,516
Speaker 2: every but every every album was the world has changed.

623
00:40:08,556 --> 00:40:10,876
Speaker 2: And when I I heard nineteen ninety nine, which I

624
00:40:10,916 --> 00:40:14,476
Speaker 2: still haven't, I'll never get over it. Uh, my world

625
00:40:14,516 --> 00:40:17,876
Speaker 2: changed again. Wow. I mean it was like the first

626
00:40:17,916 --> 00:40:20,796
Speaker 2: time I heard Cecil Taylor my world, the first time

627
00:40:20,796 --> 00:40:25,036
Speaker 2: I heard on Coleman, my world changed, the first time

628
00:40:25,036 --> 00:40:28,276
Speaker 2: I heard Miles, My first time I heard Bird by

629
00:40:28,316 --> 00:40:31,676
Speaker 2: the Way. The orchestra, the album with Burden and orchestra

630
00:40:32,196 --> 00:40:35,076
Speaker 2: sometimes gets frowned upon. He doesn't give an inch on

631
00:40:35,156 --> 00:40:37,476
Speaker 2: that album. I mean, he just does what he does.

632
00:40:37,556 --> 00:40:38,876
Speaker 1: I think it's a great album.

633
00:40:39,116 --> 00:40:43,396
Speaker 2: Yeah I do too, I've heard it being you know,

634
00:40:43,436 --> 00:40:46,396
Speaker 2: oh he's sold out. I mean the same as when

635
00:40:47,476 --> 00:40:51,076
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan. The same as Dylan put down his acoustic

636
00:40:51,156 --> 00:40:53,716
Speaker 2: and picked up an electric guitar. Apparently he was a

637
00:40:53,756 --> 00:40:57,636
Speaker 2: traitor and he's betrayed the folk movement. Yeah shit, catch up.

638
00:40:59,476 --> 00:41:02,316
Speaker 2: But then again, the artist is one of the jobs

639
00:41:02,396 --> 00:41:04,756
Speaker 2: and the responsibility of the artists. The artist should always

640
00:41:04,756 --> 00:41:06,796
Speaker 2: be ahead of the audience. I mean, if you'd have

641
00:41:06,876 --> 00:41:12,236
Speaker 2: asked the listeners of the world world in the nineteen fifties,

642
00:41:13,636 --> 00:41:16,916
Speaker 2: how would you like popular music to go in the

643
00:41:16,956 --> 00:41:23,756
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies, you wouldn't have had. Well, all guys

644
00:41:24,316 --> 00:41:28,396
Speaker 2: with funny haircuts and cheeky chappi is not from New

645
00:41:28,516 --> 00:41:32,716
Speaker 2: York or from London. How about the northern Liverpool? How

646
00:41:32,756 --> 00:41:40,156
Speaker 2: about Liverpool? And they're influenced by motown and Little Richard

647
00:41:40,516 --> 00:41:44,996
Speaker 2: rock and roll, and they kind of get later on

648
00:41:45,116 --> 00:41:48,796
Speaker 2: into really knowing something about classical music. And for some

649
00:41:48,916 --> 00:41:53,596
Speaker 2: odd reason they're also kind of link to what we

650
00:41:53,716 --> 00:41:59,996
Speaker 2: used to call a British music hall. Yeah, no one

651
00:42:00,036 --> 00:42:02,676
Speaker 2: would have thought of that. You know, the audience doesn't

652
00:42:02,716 --> 00:42:05,236
Speaker 2: know what it wants of any artists. They think, but

653
00:42:05,316 --> 00:42:08,916
Speaker 2: the audience don't know what they want until they get it.

654
00:42:09,196 --> 00:42:14,476
Speaker 2: The artists, really good ones kind of always a pace

655
00:42:14,556 --> 00:42:18,316
Speaker 2: ahead of the audience. Yeah, and that's what's supposed to happen.

656
00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:22,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, Prince too, where were you when you heard nineteen

657
00:42:22,356 --> 00:42:24,076
Speaker 1: ninty nine, because you weren't making music at that point,

658
00:42:24,316 --> 00:42:25,196
Speaker 1: or at least releasing.

659
00:42:26,116 --> 00:42:28,916
Speaker 2: I I was still making a lot of music, but

660
00:42:28,956 --> 00:42:32,756
Speaker 2: I wasn't really it wasn't exactly like me and the

661
00:42:32,796 --> 00:42:37,676
Speaker 2: music business fell out. It's just that I realized at

662
00:42:37,716 --> 00:42:41,076
Speaker 2: one stage that I shouldn't be in the music business.

663
00:42:41,196 --> 00:42:44,436
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I don't fit, and so I

664
00:42:44,516 --> 00:42:52,596
Speaker 2: kind of kept kind of retiring. And also after I

665
00:42:52,716 --> 00:42:56,476
Speaker 2: was probably possibly it must be love. No, it was

666
00:42:56,516 --> 00:42:59,076
Speaker 2: before it must be love. It was sometimes in the

667
00:42:59,116 --> 00:43:03,076
Speaker 2: second album when people started to recognize me when I

668
00:43:03,116 --> 00:43:06,516
Speaker 2: went out, and after about three months, I knew I

669
00:43:06,556 --> 00:43:11,236
Speaker 2: was never ever going to light it really or whatever.

670
00:43:11,396 --> 00:43:15,596
Speaker 2: I just joined, I'm never going I was never going

671
00:43:15,596 --> 00:43:17,876
Speaker 2: to enjoy that. I mean, I learned how to do it,

672
00:43:20,196 --> 00:43:24,116
Speaker 2: but I, like I say, that was never part of

673
00:43:24,156 --> 00:43:26,076
Speaker 2: my plan, and it never occurred to me that that

674
00:43:26,156 --> 00:43:29,796
Speaker 2: was going to happen. I just thought I'd make music. Actually,

675
00:43:29,876 --> 00:43:32,036
Speaker 2: I don't even think I even thought about being successful.

676
00:43:33,316 --> 00:43:34,996
Speaker 2: I mean, it didn't occur to me that I have

677
00:43:35,156 --> 00:43:37,356
Speaker 2: the business of being a successful musician. I just wanted

678
00:43:37,396 --> 00:43:38,036
Speaker 2: to play music.

679
00:43:38,596 --> 00:43:40,276
Speaker 1: Was there was there was never a feeling of I

680
00:43:40,276 --> 00:43:42,756
Speaker 1: want to be successful just to show my parents that,

681
00:43:42,876 --> 00:43:44,036
Speaker 1: you know, look.

682
00:43:43,916 --> 00:43:48,916
Speaker 2: What I've done. No, never, never, no, never.

683
00:43:50,156 --> 00:43:53,636
Speaker 1: Did your parents approve of your musical career?

684
00:43:57,716 --> 00:44:02,356
Speaker 2: Of nineteen And i'mre in the hall of our house

685
00:44:02,916 --> 00:44:07,316
Speaker 2: and there's me with one suitcase, my guitar case and

686
00:44:07,396 --> 00:44:11,356
Speaker 2: a guitar and doing the I going to be a musician,

687
00:44:12,196 --> 00:44:14,636
Speaker 2: and my father and my mother in the hall. My

688
00:44:14,796 --> 00:44:17,796
Speaker 2: father is shouting, you're throwing your life away. I quote

689
00:44:17,956 --> 00:44:20,476
Speaker 2: for the batim. My father is shouting, you're throwing your

690
00:44:20,476 --> 00:44:24,636
Speaker 2: life away, and my mother is crying, and I and

691
00:44:24,716 --> 00:44:27,316
Speaker 2: I march out of the house in a I am

692
00:44:27,356 --> 00:44:29,796
Speaker 2: going to do this. And I walked down to the

693
00:44:29,836 --> 00:44:33,196
Speaker 2: bottom of the road and suddenly realized I don't know

694
00:44:33,236 --> 00:44:37,716
Speaker 2: where I'm going. So my advice to people who are

695
00:44:37,716 --> 00:44:40,916
Speaker 2: going to make a dramatic exit from the family is

696
00:44:40,956 --> 00:44:47,556
Speaker 2: at least make sure you've got bus fare. I mean,

697
00:44:47,636 --> 00:44:50,436
Speaker 2: when when you say had you got a plan? That's

698
00:44:50,716 --> 00:44:54,316
Speaker 2: that was? That was how good my plan was. And

699
00:44:54,436 --> 00:44:57,436
Speaker 2: if it hadn't been for Brian, my favorite brother who's

700
00:44:57,476 --> 00:45:00,596
Speaker 2: now dead. I walked down the hill, I got to

701
00:45:00,636 --> 00:45:04,076
Speaker 2: the bottom the street, the main street, and I didn't

702
00:45:04,076 --> 00:45:05,716
Speaker 2: have anywhere to go, and I don't have any money.

703
00:45:06,276 --> 00:45:09,676
Speaker 2: I called Brian and he had a run room. Uh.

704
00:45:09,676 --> 00:45:11,876
Speaker 2: And the kid schured and he said, well, you better

705
00:45:11,876 --> 00:45:15,836
Speaker 2: stay with me. So I stayed with him until because

706
00:45:15,876 --> 00:45:17,676
Speaker 2: he was he was just about to get married and

707
00:45:17,716 --> 00:45:21,516
Speaker 2: he was going to move from London up to Steptford,

708
00:45:21,556 --> 00:45:26,116
Speaker 2: I think, so I stayed with him. And yeah, he

709
00:45:26,116 --> 00:45:29,876
Speaker 2: helped me get a job. I mean, I mean I

710
00:45:29,916 --> 00:45:33,236
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about what should I do. I've got

711
00:45:33,276 --> 00:45:36,156
Speaker 2: to get a job, I suppose, and he helped me

712
00:45:36,156 --> 00:45:38,876
Speaker 2: get a home and then my first job in soul

713
00:45:38,916 --> 00:45:43,676
Speaker 2: Ways uh in Beth mcgreen. I just liked boxes around,

714
00:45:43,716 --> 00:45:49,596
Speaker 2: boxes of goods around, which is actually where a lot

715
00:45:49,676 --> 00:45:51,876
Speaker 2: of the stuff that they had they did. They did toys,

716
00:45:52,636 --> 00:45:57,876
Speaker 2: but they also were the distributor for super Fun, which

717
00:45:57,916 --> 00:46:00,956
Speaker 2: I think was the Czechoslovakian record company. They're still around

718
00:46:02,076 --> 00:46:05,316
Speaker 2: h But it was really good quality stuff, you know,

719
00:46:05,476 --> 00:46:08,956
Speaker 2: proper orchestras and everything. But they were slightly cheaper recordings

720
00:46:10,076 --> 00:46:13,956
Speaker 2: in the UK and other places, so they were affordable.

721
00:46:14,356 --> 00:46:17,516
Speaker 2: There was a Jordie in there who was older than me,

722
00:46:17,556 --> 00:46:21,156
Speaker 2: and I was this kid and he said to me,

723
00:46:22,236 --> 00:46:25,436
Speaker 2: have you taken anything yet, what do you mean, He said, well,

724
00:46:25,476 --> 00:46:27,276
Speaker 2: we don't get paid very much. In fact, I was

725
00:46:27,316 --> 00:46:30,436
Speaker 2: earning eleven pounds a week and I was living on milk,

726
00:46:31,596 --> 00:46:36,916
Speaker 2: read rolls and the apples. Yeah, that's what I was

727
00:46:36,996 --> 00:46:40,876
Speaker 2: living on. And and he said, we've got all these records.

728
00:46:40,956 --> 00:46:46,316
Speaker 2: Taste some. I said, it was kind of stealing. He said, yeah, yes, yes,

729
00:46:46,436 --> 00:46:49,356
Speaker 2: come on, and it was. And the part of the

730
00:46:49,396 --> 00:46:54,396
Speaker 2: stuff was I got Yanachek's Glagolithic Mass, which once again

731
00:46:55,236 --> 00:46:59,476
Speaker 2: changed my world familiar. I got the Master Sounds. Where's

732
00:46:59,516 --> 00:47:04,916
Speaker 2: Montgomery's Brothers? That's where I got it from the Master Sounds,

733
00:47:05,436 --> 00:47:07,636
Speaker 2: and a couple of things. I think I only took

734
00:47:07,716 --> 00:47:10,876
Speaker 2: three or four because it was kind of stealing, stealing,

735
00:47:12,636 --> 00:47:14,116
Speaker 2: But but it was a very good thing that I

736
00:47:14,196 --> 00:47:18,676
Speaker 2: had because that's where I discovered. That's that I mean,

737
00:47:18,756 --> 00:47:25,676
Speaker 2: that was my inn to twentieth century orchestral stuff, and

738
00:47:25,796 --> 00:47:27,516
Speaker 2: that was my inn to wars Montgomery.

739
00:47:27,916 --> 00:47:30,396
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are two strands you can that I can

740
00:47:30,516 --> 00:47:32,716
Speaker 1: hear through the music. So I can't hear Jimmy Reid

741
00:47:33,036 --> 00:47:36,956
Speaker 1: as well, but I can hear those things. Yeah.

742
00:47:37,036 --> 00:47:41,476
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's funny because before the first album,

743
00:47:42,436 --> 00:47:48,036
Speaker 2: I'd met a writer a fiction called David Leslie, David

744
00:47:48,196 --> 00:47:50,916
Speaker 2: Stewart Leslie, and I read one of his books. It

745
00:47:51,116 --> 00:47:53,756
Speaker 2: was really good, and he was kind of going to

746
00:47:53,836 --> 00:48:01,956
Speaker 2: be our manager. He asked me, let's write a musical.

747
00:48:02,676 --> 00:48:04,676
Speaker 2: This was a long time before I got my deal,

748
00:48:05,476 --> 00:48:08,316
Speaker 2: So he and I wrote a musical for children called

749
00:48:08,356 --> 00:48:11,396
Speaker 2: The Magic Bed. He wrote the book and I wrote

750
00:48:11,436 --> 00:48:14,716
Speaker 2: the song. Now this is before. This is long before

751
00:48:14,716 --> 00:48:18,636
Speaker 2: i'd started work on anything like on the first album,

752
00:48:18,756 --> 00:48:21,356
Speaker 2: which was several years later that I that I started

753
00:48:21,436 --> 00:48:24,036
Speaker 2: on the on the first on those tracks. So in fact,

754
00:48:24,076 --> 00:48:25,836
Speaker 2: by the time I got the deal, I'd already written

755
00:48:26,116 --> 00:48:29,156
Speaker 2: probably half of the first album, but A with a

756
00:48:29,196 --> 00:48:32,636
Speaker 2: Magic Bed, almost from the get go, Apart from the

757
00:48:32,756 --> 00:48:34,836
Speaker 2: songs that I wrote in my bedroom before I had

758
00:48:34,916 --> 00:48:37,796
Speaker 2: marched out of the house grandly telling them I'm going

759
00:48:37,796 --> 00:48:39,956
Speaker 2: to be a musician. It was after that that I

760
00:48:39,996 --> 00:48:43,396
Speaker 2: actually kind of got into writing and from the from

761
00:48:43,436 --> 00:48:48,276
Speaker 2: that first batch, some of which are now bonus tracks

762
00:48:48,316 --> 00:48:54,276
Speaker 2: on some of the re mastered stuff. They're really good

763
00:48:54,436 --> 00:48:58,596
Speaker 2: song Wow, they're very mean. When I listened to them,

764
00:48:58,796 --> 00:49:02,996
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, that's very mean, and they're really good

765
00:49:05,556 --> 00:49:10,636
Speaker 2: and actually surprises me because I I can't really, It's

766
00:49:10,676 --> 00:49:15,036
Speaker 2: sometimes difficult for me to remember that person. And for example,

767
00:49:15,076 --> 00:49:18,636
Speaker 2: Woody who mentioned before the drummer, as I say to

768
00:49:18,676 --> 00:49:20,996
Speaker 2: all this sunny stick in the bands that we had,

769
00:49:21,396 --> 00:49:27,116
Speaker 2: would he remember things from our past that which is

770
00:49:27,156 --> 00:49:29,076
Speaker 2: probably a blooding thing. I was going to say.

771
00:49:29,076 --> 00:49:31,796
Speaker 1: You you've had you've kept relationships for a long time,

772
00:49:31,876 --> 00:49:34,036
Speaker 1: so it's surprising me that you kind of can't. And

773
00:49:34,476 --> 00:49:39,436
Speaker 1: you were in a partnership for I mean what nineteen to.

774
00:49:41,316 --> 00:49:45,716
Speaker 2: Well, Peter, Peter and I were together for forty eight years,

775
00:49:46,316 --> 00:49:49,036
Speaker 2: Ruth and I were together for nineteen years, and Peter

776
00:49:49,196 --> 00:49:51,636
Speaker 2: Rout and I were in a manager Tina for sixteen years.

777
00:49:54,236 --> 00:49:57,916
Speaker 2: I mean, so very lucky. All in all, I've had

778
00:49:59,356 --> 00:50:06,356
Speaker 2: fifty two years of love, which is a wonderful thing

779
00:50:08,076 --> 00:50:08,636
Speaker 2: they both did.

780
00:50:08,716 --> 00:50:17,516
Speaker 1: No, I'm always you know, curious, forty eight years does

781
00:50:17,556 --> 00:50:18,476
Speaker 1: it ever feel like enough?

782
00:50:20,276 --> 00:50:21,596
Speaker 2: Love is never remard.

783
00:50:23,756 --> 00:50:25,556
Speaker 1: Because you hear these things. You hear forty eight years,

784
00:50:25,596 --> 00:50:27,156
Speaker 1: sometimes you hear fifty years. And when I was younger,

785
00:50:27,196 --> 00:50:30,236
Speaker 1: I used to think, oh, wow, well, you know, it's

786
00:50:30,276 --> 00:50:32,996
Speaker 1: like a lifetime. You know, should be so lucky, and

787
00:50:33,036 --> 00:50:34,876
Speaker 1: then you start to get you know, I'm a little

788
00:50:34,916 --> 00:50:40,916
Speaker 1: bit older. I sort of think forty eight, there's no time,

789
00:50:41,316 --> 00:50:42,916
Speaker 1: you know, my god.

790
00:50:42,996 --> 00:50:47,236
Speaker 2: You know, well we I mean if they were both alive,

791
00:50:47,316 --> 00:50:50,916
Speaker 2: we'd all still be together. I mean, I mean people.

792
00:50:51,676 --> 00:50:54,436
Speaker 2: One of the things that people get asked is what

793
00:50:54,596 --> 00:50:56,836
Speaker 2: makes a good marriage. I mean, we were a family

794
00:50:56,876 --> 00:51:00,356
Speaker 2: of three husbands, you know, when when when Route joined us,

795
00:51:01,676 --> 00:51:05,596
Speaker 2: that question about what makes a good marriage? Uh. And

796
00:51:05,956 --> 00:51:08,236
Speaker 2: one thing that happens in a good marriage is that

797
00:51:08,316 --> 00:51:13,796
Speaker 2: you become a tea and Peter and I were a

798
00:51:13,876 --> 00:51:18,236
Speaker 2: really good team. Uh. And then when Route joined us,

799
00:51:18,716 --> 00:51:22,076
Speaker 2: we were a better team because anything that two of

800
00:51:22,156 --> 00:51:24,236
Speaker 2: us couldn't do, the third could.

801
00:51:25,316 --> 00:51:25,556
Speaker 1: Yeah.

802
00:51:26,636 --> 00:51:29,436
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's how it functioned. That's how we functioned,

803
00:51:29,676 --> 00:51:32,796
Speaker 2: and we and it was very clear which what each

804
00:51:32,836 --> 00:51:33,716
Speaker 2: of us was good at.

805
00:51:34,316 --> 00:51:34,516
Speaker 1: Yeah.

806
00:51:35,316 --> 00:51:39,716
Speaker 2: Uh, that's how. That's what a good marriage done. You

807
00:51:39,836 --> 00:51:42,356
Speaker 2: become a team or not necessarily you have to be married,

808
00:51:42,436 --> 00:51:47,276
Speaker 2: but a good you know, the partners. I mean human beings,

809
00:51:47,796 --> 00:51:52,676
Speaker 2: you know about apart from apart from some notable departures,

810
00:51:53,996 --> 00:51:57,276
Speaker 2: human beings are I'm very pleased about evolution. I wish

811
00:51:57,356 --> 00:51:59,396
Speaker 2: it would hurry up and do something about the human race.

812
00:52:01,156 --> 00:52:03,676
Speaker 2: But human and I don't mind the fact that we

813
00:52:03,836 --> 00:52:12,436
Speaker 2: are genetically programmed at all, but human beings in the

814
00:52:12,636 --> 00:52:16,956
Speaker 2: main I can certainly think of quite a lot of exceptions,

815
00:52:18,076 --> 00:52:25,716
Speaker 2: have a need to nurture and be nurtured. Unfortunately, more

816
00:52:25,756 --> 00:52:32,276
Speaker 2: than half of the world doesn't accept that. But that

817
00:52:32,556 --> 00:52:39,196
Speaker 2: is what human beings are. They are programmed, and hopefully

818
00:52:39,316 --> 00:52:44,436
Speaker 2: as I grow up that is made even stronger by association,

819
00:52:44,676 --> 00:52:48,796
Speaker 2: finding the right person or something. And I mean I've

820
00:52:48,836 --> 00:52:53,796
Speaker 2: often thought that the answer to the human problem is that,

821
00:52:54,276 --> 00:52:56,836
Speaker 2: you know, everything does start with the family. I mean,

822
00:52:56,876 --> 00:52:59,356
Speaker 2: I'd spent my whole life trying to make one, and eventually,

823
00:53:00,636 --> 00:53:03,156
Speaker 2: when there were three of us, I suddenly realized one

824
00:53:03,196 --> 00:53:06,636
Speaker 2: day what I've been trying to do for all those

825
00:53:06,756 --> 00:53:11,756
Speaker 2: years before that I actually done it. You know, talk

826
00:53:11,796 --> 00:53:14,556
Speaker 2: about you talk about the forty eight years. Yeah, fortunately,

827
00:53:14,676 --> 00:53:18,676
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I mean there's that commitment, but it's

828
00:53:18,716 --> 00:53:23,876
Speaker 2: the business of Okay, So you start with they the couple,

829
00:53:24,556 --> 00:53:27,476
Speaker 2: and that's that family of two. You can have a

830
00:53:27,516 --> 00:53:31,956
Speaker 2: family too, and then it widens, you know, usually with children,

831
00:53:32,596 --> 00:53:35,956
Speaker 2: and then that's the family. And then as it goes on,

832
00:53:36,636 --> 00:53:43,236
Speaker 2: you include your first cousin, yeah, oh, your nephew, and

833
00:53:43,356 --> 00:53:46,276
Speaker 2: then you've gon include, and it goes like that until

834
00:53:46,316 --> 00:53:51,756
Speaker 2: you get to a few friends. One of the things

835
00:53:51,796 --> 00:53:54,156
Speaker 2: that I just couldn't understand that made me really annoyed

836
00:53:54,196 --> 00:53:57,276
Speaker 2: when Facebook turned up, what do you mean you're all friends?

837
00:53:58,076 --> 00:53:58,796
Speaker 1: You know?

838
00:53:58,916 --> 00:54:05,596
Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't your friend. You don't understand, do you?

839
00:54:05,836 --> 00:54:05,876
Speaker 1: No?

840
00:54:06,036 --> 00:54:07,876
Speaker 2: No, this is not your friend.

841
00:54:09,196 --> 00:54:10,636
Speaker 1: Do you want? I think you want that argument?

842
00:54:12,236 --> 00:54:15,356
Speaker 2: And so you're so. And it occurs to me that

843
00:54:15,516 --> 00:54:19,916
Speaker 2: if we can, only, if we can only widen the

844
00:54:19,996 --> 00:54:24,796
Speaker 2: amount of people who we consider to be family, which

845
00:54:24,916 --> 00:54:28,916
Speaker 2: means that you you have a responsibility to them and

846
00:54:28,996 --> 00:54:31,956
Speaker 2: they have a responsibility to you. And the more that

847
00:54:32,116 --> 00:54:39,036
Speaker 2: gets widened, that would be a solution to Are are

848
00:54:39,596 --> 00:54:47,316
Speaker 2: ever ever annoying as a species? Hubris? Uh? You know

849
00:54:47,436 --> 00:54:51,396
Speaker 2: we're all number one. All our nations are great nations.

850
00:54:51,436 --> 00:54:53,996
Speaker 2: Even some of our towns and cities are great towns

851
00:54:54,036 --> 00:55:01,916
Speaker 2: and cities. You know, there's a difference between great and powerful. Yeah,

852
00:55:02,596 --> 00:55:08,876
Speaker 2: And if you've got homelessness and child poverty, you are

853
00:55:08,956 --> 00:55:11,476
Speaker 2: not a great nation. No matter how wealthy you are,

854
00:55:12,876 --> 00:55:17,116
Speaker 2: you have child poverty, you are not a great nation.

855
00:55:18,676 --> 00:55:21,116
Speaker 2: And you know you can sit on your sofas and

856
00:55:21,276 --> 00:55:23,596
Speaker 2: in comfort declare yourself to be a patriot and wave

857
00:55:23,636 --> 00:55:26,596
Speaker 2: your little fat flag. You know, start, yes, start, you know,

858
00:55:27,276 --> 00:55:33,876
Speaker 2: take life seriously. Unfortunately that is a rarity. Yeah, h yeah,

859
00:55:34,756 --> 00:55:36,676
Speaker 2: which is probably why I write some of the things

860
00:55:36,716 --> 00:55:37,116
Speaker 2: I write.

861
00:55:37,556 --> 00:55:39,596
Speaker 1: Do do you consider your songs part of your family,

862
00:55:41,356 --> 00:55:42,036
Speaker 1: part of your.

863
00:55:43,796 --> 00:55:46,076
Speaker 2: They're my songs. I try and protect them as nice

864
00:55:46,076 --> 00:55:52,156
Speaker 2: as I can, because well, I mean, there's that business

865
00:55:52,156 --> 00:55:56,596
Speaker 2: once the end up trying to be useful. And also

866
00:55:56,756 --> 00:56:00,076
Speaker 2: there's that there's I mean, there's there's the spin offs

867
00:56:00,316 --> 00:56:03,836
Speaker 2: which aren't aren't intentional, but they just happened if you

868
00:56:03,916 --> 00:56:05,196
Speaker 2: write a certain kind of song.

869
00:56:05,596 --> 00:56:05,836
Speaker 1: I mean.

870
00:56:05,876 --> 00:56:07,876
Speaker 2: One of the things about writing love songs, for example,

871
00:56:08,836 --> 00:56:12,716
Speaker 2: is that you could say that it's part of the job.

872
00:56:12,996 --> 00:56:15,196
Speaker 2: It's actually part of it. It's something that does happen

873
00:56:15,236 --> 00:56:17,716
Speaker 2: if you do it well. And that is you find

874
00:56:17,756 --> 00:56:22,836
Speaker 2: yourself saying things that loads and loads of people want

875
00:56:22,916 --> 00:56:28,716
Speaker 2: to say but they can't. So by the things that

876
00:56:28,876 --> 00:56:32,316
Speaker 2: you write, you provide them with something so they can

877
00:56:33,036 --> 00:56:35,756
Speaker 2: say something. I mean, it's it's like an audio version

878
00:56:35,796 --> 00:56:39,116
Speaker 2: of buying flowers for the love. You know. It's it's

879
00:56:39,676 --> 00:56:42,716
Speaker 2: because you can't because you can, and most people, lots

880
00:56:42,756 --> 00:56:47,116
Speaker 2: of people can't say these things and you can say

881
00:56:47,156 --> 00:56:50,116
Speaker 2: it in song, So it's a kind of gift. And

882
00:56:50,276 --> 00:56:52,276
Speaker 2: the other thing, of course, is that there are lots

883
00:56:52,316 --> 00:56:55,436
Speaker 2: of things. I mean, it's always fascinated me that as

884
00:56:55,516 --> 00:56:57,996
Speaker 2: a child, and I think it's still the same now.

885
00:56:58,476 --> 00:57:02,196
Speaker 2: The advice given is don't talk about politics or religion.

886
00:57:03,916 --> 00:57:06,956
Speaker 2: And I'm from very young. I mean, I spent eleven

887
00:57:07,036 --> 00:57:10,716
Speaker 2: years in a monastery school. From very young. It seems

888
00:57:10,756 --> 00:57:14,436
Speaker 2: to me, well, who benefits if we don't talk about

889
00:57:14,556 --> 00:57:18,636
Speaker 2: politics or religion? Religion, by the way, is politics. Who

890
00:57:18,796 --> 00:57:24,116
Speaker 2: benefits if we don't talk about the two things which

891
00:57:24,196 --> 00:57:27,156
Speaker 2: are in fact the two things that govern most things

892
00:57:27,316 --> 00:57:32,036
Speaker 2: on this planet apart from money. I know, I've written

893
00:57:32,156 --> 00:57:35,516
Speaker 2: things that very very few people would even dare to write.

894
00:57:36,716 --> 00:57:38,716
Speaker 2: You're not going to find very many people who've written

895
00:57:38,756 --> 00:57:44,516
Speaker 2: a song like school Days, for example, or a Kiss

896
00:57:44,556 --> 00:57:48,036
Speaker 2: in the mirror and so. But as far as I'm concerned,

897
00:57:48,116 --> 00:57:51,396
Speaker 2: those things are important. And it also it annoys me

898
00:57:51,476 --> 00:57:57,796
Speaker 2: because novelists can do it, novelists can address serious issues.

899
00:57:59,316 --> 00:58:01,716
Speaker 2: But about I mean, I always loathed that business. And

900
00:58:01,796 --> 00:58:06,556
Speaker 2: there's still critics, certainly in the sixties and seventies who

901
00:58:06,676 --> 00:58:10,796
Speaker 2: actually said no, pop music's not supposed to last. What

902
00:58:11,476 --> 00:58:15,476
Speaker 2: do you mean, Yeah, yeah, so you want us to

903
00:58:15,556 --> 00:58:17,116
Speaker 2: write crap and you'll applauded.

904
00:58:17,596 --> 00:58:21,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's supposed to be disconfection, just kind of for

905
00:58:21,716 --> 00:58:27,356
Speaker 1: the moment. It's yeah, yeah, it's well, you certainly did

906
00:58:27,396 --> 00:58:30,276
Speaker 1: the opposite. It's it's incredible how you how your music

907
00:58:30,516 --> 00:58:33,196
Speaker 1: seems to only pick up steam as it as time

908
00:58:33,236 --> 00:58:37,716
Speaker 1: goes on. I mean, you know, even just I really

909
00:58:37,796 --> 00:58:39,676
Speaker 1: enjoyed the movie The Holdovers I was watching. I watched

910
00:58:39,676 --> 00:58:43,796
Speaker 1: that on a plane maybe a year ago. There's There's

911
00:58:43,836 --> 00:58:47,276
Speaker 1: there's your song, you know, the title track from Loving Line,

912
00:58:47,596 --> 00:58:50,436
Speaker 1: and then you know, Blessed Telephone now as its whole

913
00:58:50,436 --> 00:58:53,836
Speaker 1: whole life of its own amongst young people, and certainly

914
00:58:54,476 --> 00:58:57,516
Speaker 1: these songs are standing the test of time. Yeah.

915
00:58:57,556 --> 00:58:59,516
Speaker 2: Well, my first agent and I remember saying, I I

916
00:58:59,636 --> 00:59:01,676
Speaker 2: don't know why I came up in conversation. He said

917
00:59:01,716 --> 00:59:04,596
Speaker 2: to me, I think it was probably see a good

918
00:59:04,636 --> 00:59:08,916
Speaker 2: song never dies. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry. Now that's

919
00:59:08,916 --> 00:59:10,996
Speaker 2: how Ericans as well. But I mean, the interesting thing

920
00:59:11,116 --> 00:59:16,436
Speaker 2: is I've always very much believed in my work. I mean, uh,

921
00:59:16,916 --> 00:59:19,756
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes you know, we can within the distant

922
00:59:19,836 --> 00:59:23,836
Speaker 2: past I have thought to myself, Uh, this is a

923
00:59:23,916 --> 00:59:27,316
Speaker 2: good one. People will catch up. But it didn't happen.

924
00:59:27,436 --> 00:59:29,556
Speaker 2: I mean that was that was the mantra in the older,

925
00:59:29,596 --> 00:59:31,436
Speaker 2: in the time, in the in the early days of

926
00:59:32,596 --> 00:59:35,236
Speaker 2: of the Stones and the Beatles, as far as their

927
00:59:35,276 --> 00:59:38,236
Speaker 2: management was concerned, you have to break in America.

928
00:59:38,756 --> 00:59:38,956
Speaker 1: Yeah.

929
00:59:39,796 --> 00:59:46,676
Speaker 2: So it was only when uh dre uh yeah, uh

930
00:59:47,436 --> 00:59:50,036
Speaker 2: took the baseline I'd written for on for I got there.

931
00:59:51,076 --> 00:59:55,876
Speaker 2: In fact, they took quite a lot of the track. Yeah,

932
00:59:55,956 --> 01:00:01,396
Speaker 2: it was more than basement, uh base. But but that

933
01:00:01,676 --> 01:00:06,556
Speaker 2: was the beginning of a kind of America, part of

934
01:00:06,596 --> 01:00:11,396
Speaker 2: American small boat of America, uh, discovering my work and

935
01:00:11,476 --> 01:00:16,716
Speaker 2: then Candy and and everybody else. So it did happen.

936
01:00:20,076 --> 01:00:23,116
Speaker 2: I wish I'd be a bit more savvy. I hope

937
01:00:23,156 --> 01:00:27,676
Speaker 2: that young I hope that young musicians are rather more

938
01:00:29,636 --> 01:00:33,636
Speaker 2: I don't know, it sounds kind of more knowledgeable about

939
01:00:33,676 --> 01:00:36,396
Speaker 2: the business than I was. I mean, I was fortunate

940
01:00:36,476 --> 01:00:39,436
Speaker 2: that I was in that regardless when I said, my

941
01:00:39,556 --> 01:00:42,036
Speaker 2: first deals was with honest people who kind of you know,

942
01:00:42,236 --> 01:00:44,756
Speaker 2: I know it gets this, it does this, and by

943
01:00:44,756 --> 01:00:46,476
Speaker 2: the way, here's the accounting, this is what we're doing,

944
01:00:46,556 --> 01:00:52,436
Speaker 2: and I hope young people starting starting out are more

945
01:00:52,516 --> 01:00:53,396
Speaker 2: savvy than I was.

946
01:00:55,036 --> 01:00:57,356
Speaker 1: Can before we go, can I ask you what the

947
01:00:58,476 --> 01:01:00,076
Speaker 1: the story behind Blessed Telephone is.

948
01:01:01,756 --> 01:01:06,436
Speaker 2: I've done a gig. I think I can't remember this Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool,

949
01:01:06,436 --> 01:01:10,276
Speaker 2: I can't remember. And on well, and I was in

950
01:01:10,356 --> 01:01:16,116
Speaker 2: my hotel room and a certain person rang just to

951
01:01:16,276 --> 01:01:18,076
Speaker 2: ask how did how did it? How did it go?

952
01:01:19,836 --> 01:01:22,396
Speaker 2: And then on. At the end of the conversation, which

953
01:01:22,476 --> 01:01:26,996
Speaker 2: lasted half an hour or more, I found myself sitting

954
01:01:27,036 --> 01:01:29,396
Speaker 2: on the bed in my hotel room and picking up

955
01:01:29,396 --> 01:01:33,236
Speaker 2: the guitar and writing the telephone Wow, I mean that

956
01:01:33,476 --> 01:01:36,956
Speaker 2: people often ask how long does the song take? I've written?

957
01:01:37,316 --> 01:01:39,716
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean it must be love. I remember

958
01:01:40,396 --> 01:01:43,676
Speaker 2: we were we were living above the car showroom, and

959
01:01:44,036 --> 01:01:47,356
Speaker 2: Peter had gone off to work, and the door closed,

960
01:01:47,356 --> 01:01:49,276
Speaker 2: and I picked up the guitar and went to the

961
01:01:49,356 --> 01:01:53,276
Speaker 2: sofa to work, and I started writing. And I read

962
01:01:53,316 --> 01:01:56,636
Speaker 2: the first verse and the core and then the chorus,

963
01:01:56,676 --> 01:01:58,476
Speaker 2: and it must be love. And it's the only time

964
01:01:58,516 --> 01:02:00,556
Speaker 2: I've ever done this. I thought, you have to finish

965
01:02:00,716 --> 01:02:06,756
Speaker 2: this one, so if we this is that one took well,

966
01:02:06,796 --> 01:02:08,316
Speaker 2: it took a day to complete the song, but it

967
01:02:08,396 --> 01:02:11,636
Speaker 2: then took a couple of weeks to actually sort out

968
01:02:11,716 --> 01:02:16,236
Speaker 2: which what goes where. But I mean there are songs

969
01:02:16,276 --> 01:02:18,716
Speaker 2: of mine that have taken several years to write. You

970
01:02:18,756 --> 01:02:21,316
Speaker 2: know a lot of people, and there's people online who

971
01:02:21,516 --> 01:02:24,756
Speaker 2: you know who give this advice because loads and loads

972
01:02:24,836 --> 01:02:27,836
Speaker 2: and loads of people they get to a stage, they

973
01:02:27,956 --> 01:02:30,116
Speaker 2: half in a song and can't go any further with it.

974
01:02:30,676 --> 01:02:32,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you still play? Do you still play?

975
01:02:33,116 --> 01:02:35,916
Speaker 2: I'm well, I mean, I'm you're you're you're seeing me

976
01:02:35,996 --> 01:02:40,516
Speaker 2: in my studio? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm still I mean,

977
01:02:41,036 --> 01:02:42,316
Speaker 2: I say it as a joke, but I'm not sure

978
01:02:42,396 --> 01:02:43,756
Speaker 2: it is a joke. I don't be writing on my

979
01:02:43,836 --> 01:02:44,796
Speaker 2: deathbit I expect.

980
01:02:44,876 --> 01:02:47,756
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, Well, it was really great to meet you.

981
01:02:49,236 --> 01:02:52,876
Speaker 1: You know, real honor, real pleasure. Thanks taking the time.

982
01:02:53,596 --> 01:02:54,396
Speaker 2: Find my pleasure.

983
01:02:54,396 --> 01:02:59,676
Speaker 1: Indeed, in an episode description, you'll find a link to

984
01:02:59,756 --> 01:03:02,076
Speaker 1: our favorite Labrysi free tracks, as well as some of

985
01:03:02,116 --> 01:03:04,996
Speaker 1: the hip hop songs that have sampled his work. You

986
01:03:05,036 --> 01:03:07,476
Speaker 1: sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record

987
01:03:07,516 --> 01:03:10,596
Speaker 1: Podcast to see all of our video interviews, and be

988
01:03:10,676 --> 01:03:13,356
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record pot.

989
01:03:13,676 --> 01:03:16,556
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken

990
01:03:16,636 --> 01:03:18,996
Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rohadse, with marketing

991
01:03:19,076 --> 01:03:22,036
Speaker 1: help from Eric Sandler and Jordana McMillan. Our engineer is

992
01:03:22,116 --> 01:03:26,116
Speaker 1: Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If

993
01:03:26,156 --> 01:03:29,036
Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing

994
01:03:29,116 --> 01:03:32,156
Speaker 1: to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that

995
01:03:32,236 --> 01:03:35,236
Speaker 1: offers bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety

996
01:03:35,316 --> 01:03:38,476
Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,

997
01:03:39,116 --> 01:03:41,356
Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,

998
01:03:41,396 --> 01:03:43,916
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's

999
01:03:43,916 --> 01:03:45,796
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmonds.