1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You're not a believer in nannycams. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: You think it invades your child's privacy. I hate to 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: tell you this, but you're wrong. And this is why 4 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: two year old Decline oglesby. That's why a two year 5 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: old little boy screaming at the hands of his babysitter 6 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: while his parents see exactly what's happening in real time, 7 00:00:49,400 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: but guess what, they're an hour away. Rhyme Stories with 8 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Take a listen to our friends at WCTI. 9 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: Nanny is in custody and a family's in shock after 10 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: viewing that video. A Newbern couple saw that video of 11 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: their home security cameras, the woman they hired to take 12 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: care of their children holding down their toddler, forcing food 13 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: into his mouth, the child screaming and trying to get away. 14 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: Newborn police saying that nanny is twenty five year old 15 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: Loring Row of Newbern. Tonight, she's in custody and facing charges. 16 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: When you see this video, you will agree. A two 17 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: year old little boy screaming and the hands of his 18 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: own babysitter. Take a listen to this. This is the 19 00:01:50,400 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: nanny cam video. You ready no no, you are not 20 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: doing it here. No, I don't know. You can and 21 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: eat your food. Yeah. It all starts with the baby 22 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: not wanting to eat. How many times did that happen 23 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: when I was raising the twins? How about three or 24 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: four times a day? But clamping their mouth shut after 25 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: you shove food down their throat, the baby choking on 26 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: the food, screaming when he can come up for air, 27 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: with the babysitter screaming at him. It goes on and 28 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: on and on. It's actually painful to listen to. But 29 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: this is the truth. Take a listen to more of 30 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: the nanny camp video. You want this your mood? Do 31 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: you want it? He's your mood? Hey? Good? What do 32 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: you want it? Take Goodye? Do you want this? Takey? 33 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: Do you want it? Oh? You don't. You don't want this. 34 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: You don't want it. You don't want it? Okay you can. 35 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,839 Speaker 1: You are hearing a little baby declan, crying, and then 36 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: the nanny starts force feeding him as he gets the 37 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: food choked in his throat and she holds his mouth shut. 38 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: It just so happens that Mommy happens to look and 39 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: see in real time what's happening to her. Baby again. 40 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 41 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: being with us. I'm going to introduce you our all 42 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: star panel, but first I want to ask our pediatrician 43 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: joining us, doctor free and Hess at pettymom dot com. 44 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: Doctor has thank you for being with us. What is 45 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: it about hearing a baby scream? It didn't affect me 46 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: before I had children. I mean I didn't like it, 47 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: But once you have children and you hear a baby scream, 48 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: it literally it just makes your skin crawl. What happens 49 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: It is absolutely a parent or caregiver instinct. I think 50 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: you're right people people are bothered by it prior to 51 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: but once you know not only am I a pediatric 52 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: in pediatric emergency medicine, but I am a mom as well, 53 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: and I agree it hit me differently. I saw children 54 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: that had issues and were abused or injuries prior to 55 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: being a mom, and then I saw them after and 56 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: it is very, very different. It's just in the core 57 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: of you to have this feeling to protect and have 58 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: this feeling of anger when you see that somebody is 59 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: hurting this innocent child who has no ability to protect 60 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: themselves from an adult, and you just want to literally 61 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: jump through the screen, through the speaker, through whatever it 62 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: is that you need to jump through to help that child. 63 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: That's just a natural instinct, I think once you start, 64 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: once you have babies. Yeah, I don't know what happens, 65 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: doctor Hess, but ever since I had the twins, when 66 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: I hear a child cry, it's on a plane and 67 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: I immediately turn around. It's like I can't stop myself 68 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: and hearing Babe deck On crying, it's just you know, 69 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: and I want to go to you too. Doug Burns 70 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 1: joining me, former federal prosecutor, prosecutor now TV lawyer at 71 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: Doug T. Burns Esquire on LinkedIn. Doug, thank you for 72 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: being with us. You know, have you ever seen a 73 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: prosecutor or a defense attorney act something out or let 74 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: something go in the courtroom, it's full time. For instance, 75 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: if we say it takes two minutes to choke somebody out, 76 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: to strangle them dead, and then the prosecutor, I guess 77 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: we'll go with prosecutor holds a dummy, you know, to 78 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: look like a human for two minutes, and that two 79 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: minutes feels like forever in a courtroom. Yeah, it's so 80 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: interesting that you asked that because forget two minutes. You 81 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: could go with twenty seconds, fancy, and it's like, ladies 82 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, right, you heard the twenty seconds elapsed, So 83 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: let's just take a look at that for a minute. 84 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: And now we're going to see there for twenty seconds, 85 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: and it's an eternity and it really dramatically hits it home. 86 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: So in this particular case, when I was looking at 87 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: the fact, the amount of time that elapse is just 88 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: absolutely horrific, no question about it. And there's something about it. 89 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: Doug Burns, You've tried a lot of cases in federal court. 90 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: When you do a demonstration in court like we're about 91 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: to do right now with our listeners and viewers. I 92 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: know what I'm about to play is about fifty seconds, 93 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: but it feels like fifty hours when you listen to it. 94 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: Have you had that experiencing court, because I have many, 95 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: many times, and you know a number of I guess 96 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: clear lack of a description. One is, you know, a 97 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: picture's worth a thousand words. So the video in this 98 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: particular case, and again with any apologies for talking XS 99 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: and os as opposed to the horrific emotion of the 100 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: parents on what they went through but from a courtroom 101 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: XS and O's standpoint, the drama and impact of this 102 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: type of video would be devastating to the defense, devastating. 103 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: As you're talking Doug Burns, Guys, Doug Burns and I 104 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: go way way back. He is a longtime federal prosecutor. 105 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: It's in his blood. His father was a federal prosecutor 106 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: as well. Wasn't he the A G and where where 107 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: he was? Thank you for asking my late dad. He's 108 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 1: gone to eight years now, but he was Deputy Attorney 109 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: General of the United States, which is the number two 110 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: law enforcement position in the country. Right, Yeah, I knew that. 111 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: You just had to refresh my recollection. Spoken in a 112 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: little bit exactly, but he was. He was. He was 113 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: a very effective deputy ag. Yeah. This thing I want 114 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: you to listen to is exactly what I would play 115 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: for a jury in an opening statement. Tyler, if we 116 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: could go out of order and you play for me 117 00:08:45,400 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: cut twenty one please, you know what, Toddler, If you 118 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: could just stop and see that goes on for fifty 119 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: five seconds, and then there are many other as we 120 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: call it NAT sound natural sound off that NANNICAM video 121 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: that are much much longer and you're hearing Decline crying 122 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: and he's having food shoved down his throat, and then 123 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: the babysittered crumb the mouth shut and hover over him 124 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: with the food stuck in his throat. Time Stories with 125 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Let me go right now to a very 126 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: special guest joining us. Laura Oglesby is baby Declan's mother. Laura, 127 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Thank you for having me. Laura. 128 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: I want to take this in the order of what 129 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: you saw that day, what's the first thing you saw 130 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: on the nanny cam and what led you to look 131 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: at the nanny cam. So it's not necessarily a nanny cam. 132 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: It's those security cameras that I have throughout the house, 133 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: and she's all aware of them. I checked them religiously 134 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: because i'd normally not away from my kids. I've had 135 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: them since they were born. We're just doing renovations, so 136 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: I was unable to have them in the bars. It's unsafe, 137 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: and but every break I have I normally check on them. 138 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: While whenever I pulled up my camera, it was faced 139 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: in the front door, but I could hear screaming, so 140 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: I turned by camera and she actually had him in 141 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: his booster seats at the kitchen table and was yelling 142 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: at him and trying to force feed him in the 143 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: booster seat. And that's when we started running out of 144 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: the bar. And then she picked him up by his wrists. 145 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: This is all not shown on there yet. She picks 146 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: him up by his wrists and sticks him in his 147 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: brother's high chair, his little brother's won sticks him in 148 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: his little brother's high chairs to have more control over him. 149 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: And that's whenever the video starts. That's when the recording starts. Okay, 150 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: picking up by the wrist. Back to you, doctor Hess, 151 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: I've heard of I think it's called nanny's arm nursemaid's elbow. 152 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: And will you pull a child by the arm by 153 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: the wrist of the arm, and it actually lou sends 154 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: their arm at the socket. It dislocates their radius at 155 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: their elbow. Yeah, it's actually a really common injury. Can 156 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: happen pretty easily. But you, I mean, doing something like 157 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: that with full weight can not only cause the nurse 158 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: made's elbow, but can also cause fractures of the risk 159 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean, And that's just the beginning of it. You know, 160 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: the part that I saw where his arms are being 161 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: pinned behind him that can cause significant physical injury. The 162 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: part where he's getting food shoved into his mouth not 163 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: only can cause choking, but because he's screaming and crying 164 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: during it increases the risk of aspiration where food can 165 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: get down into his lung. There is so much physical 166 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: damage that can happen here, and that's not even including 167 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: the psychological damage. That's just the physical damage that can 168 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: happen here. It's horrifying. And speaking of psychological damage, I 169 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: was just about to go to Doctor Teresa guil PhD, 170 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: Professor Psychology, psychotherapist, twenty five years working with child a 171 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: beach and trauma they She is also an author and 172 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: you can find her at Teresa gilphd dot com. Doctor gill. 173 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: One of the happiest moments that we have in our 174 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: lives is when we all get together for supper after 175 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: we've been working in at school, and I look forward 176 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: to it all day long. When the children were younger, 177 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: I looked forward to giving them their baths and eating. 178 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: It wasn't really supper time because they would you know, 179 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: they didn't like high chairs, so we would set them 180 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: in their stroller, you know, totally surrounded by blankets. And 181 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: feed them a double stroller twins, you know, at their pace, 182 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: and it meant a lot to me. And I wonder sometimes, 183 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: doctor Gil, if people don't have as they grow up 184 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: eating disorders because of the way they were fed when 185 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: they were a baby. I've never even seen a study 186 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: on that, but I've wondered about it. But doctor Gil, 187 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: what does this do to a child? Not only can 188 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: kill the child, but emotionally well. I think a lot 189 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: of what they talk about today is that if a 190 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: child feels scared and they don't feel connected in face, 191 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: that it actually changes for that period of time their 192 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: autonomic nervous system and they go into a stress response. Now, 193 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: what I saw that was really lovely. So I've done 194 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: studies on what makes people resilient and not resilient, both 195 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: in childhood as well as adults. There were two parents 196 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: that love this kid. And back to Laura Oglesby, this 197 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: is Deacon's mom. When you saw that happening, what went 198 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: through your mind? Well, there are not a lot of 199 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: people want to say that they would have hurt the one. 200 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: They wanted to get home and get the nanny whatever. 201 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: That's the last thing I was on my mind. I 202 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: could care less about the nanny. The only thing that 203 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: I was worried about is my children getting to take 204 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: me like somebody getting there, getting the nanny as are 205 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: out of my house as possible, and it's been being 206 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: taken care of. Guys. Take a listen to our cut 207 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: for the nanny camp video, or at least part of it. 208 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: You ready can take Hi, Hi, Hi y. You can 209 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: take Hi and then come down, or take any can 210 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: be done. Oh Hi, you can take Amy and then 211 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: be all done. Hi. You want to be all here, 212 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: so you'll beat that. And when you hear Declin yelling out, Addie, Addie, 213 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: he's calling for his daddy, daddy, and you can hear 214 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: where he starts actually choking and gurgling up the food. 215 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: This as mommy Laura Oglesby spots what's happening on their 216 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: security cameras and immediately tries to rush home to save 217 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: her two year old little boy, Declin. You know I'm listening. 218 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: Let me introduce the rest of our panel. With me, 219 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: of course, is Declin's mother, Laura Oglesby, but also with 220 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: me Tampa Cherry, America's leading personal safety expert and author 221 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: of the personal protection handbook You Can find him at 222 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: Tampatieri dot com. Doug Burns, former federal prosecutor, veteran trial lawyer, 223 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Teresa Gill professor's psychology, doctor, free and hes pediatrician 224 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: at pettymom dot com. Chris Buyers joining US former police 225 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: chief John's Creek, Georgia, twenty five years on the beat, 226 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: now private investigator at Chris Buyer's investigations in polygraph dot 227 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: com and Crime online dot com. Investigative reporter Levi Page 228 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: to you, Chris Buyers, did you ever see One Flew 229 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: Over the Cuckoo's Nest? Did you ever see the movie? Okay? 230 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: Do you remember Nurse Ratchett? Do you remember Nurse Ratchet 231 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: Do you remember what she would speak to other people? 232 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: She would be perfectly calm and normal, but she was 233 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: crazy and evil. Do you remember her? Have you ever 234 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: dealt on all year years in the force with somebody 235 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: that when they're talking to you, they're perfectly calm and normal, 236 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: but you find out in the course of your investigation 237 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: they are pure evil. Yeah. Absolutely, been in the interrogation 238 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: room many of times and gotten a completely different side 239 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: of somebody than you know. The other testimony and video 240 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: proved so, Yes, been face to face with that many times, 241 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: you know how, I've seen it a lot of times, 242 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: Chris is in child abuse cases where people would burn 243 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: their children cigarette butts and beat them into a coma. 244 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: Child sex predators, but really like parents or caregivers that 245 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: beat the children or harm the children. And I've seen 246 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: it in domestic abuse, typically with a husband or the 247 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: male partner. They're so charming and polite and kind when 248 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: they're talking to you, but then you look over at 249 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: the woman or the child and they're totally covered in 250 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: bruises and broken bones and fat lips. Something is not right, Buyers, Yeah, absolutely, 251 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: And you're exactly right. Domestic violence cases more often than 252 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: not have that exactly They present themselves just like that 253 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: as this charming person and then you get to see 254 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: that other side and child predators. I think it's just 255 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: it's part of their m O that they do, is 256 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: just this overcharming of people outside of what is happening 257 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: in the private home and the private part time stories 258 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. You know, we've got a lot of 259 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: really educated people on our on our as guests today, 260 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: and I find out the more college education you get, 261 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: the less you believe in good and evil. I really 262 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: believe in good and evil. I think there's good and 263 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: bad in the world, and that good people can somehow 264 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: end up doing evil, horrible things like what happened to 265 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: baby Decline. And if it had not been for the 266 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: mother who's with us today, Laura oglesby having those security 267 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: cameras in her home, we would never know what happened. 268 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: Baby Decla's not old enough to articulate. You can't even 269 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: say daddy correctly in this video. Anyway, he couldn't tell 270 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: mom what was happening. Tom pa Terry with me, America's 271 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: leading personal safety expert and author of the Personal Protection handbook. 272 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: Tom tell me about security cameras. I call them all 273 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: nanny cams. We've got our home totally tricked out with 274 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: nanny cams. Well, let's let's talk about what's out there, 275 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: all right, So there aren't the nanny cams the best 276 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: start of the new pinhole cameras. You can put them 277 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: all over your house. You can use them anytime, clicking 278 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: on your phone and checking balance. The key is whether 279 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: you want people to know or not know. So the 280 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: old security adage is you know, you keep them coburt 281 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: you don't tell anybody. But the new theory is, if 282 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: you have somebody, especially if they're watching your kids or something, 283 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: let them know they're in spotlight. Let them know you 284 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: can hear and see everything in every minute, you know. 285 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: So if you see something on that camera, get on 286 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: the phone, say what are you doing? You know, and 287 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: do a check and bounce. But that's one phase of it. 288 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: And you know you do the background that's another phase. 289 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: But let me tell you what people are doing. Now. 290 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: You have the neighborhood watch. Right now, people are calling 291 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: a neighborhood responder. So all the parents get together and say, okay, 292 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: I'm working on this day, I'm off on this day, 293 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm you know, and they figure out who's around. So 294 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: let's say, in what happened in this young lady's case, 295 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: she has somebody she trusts. She can now make the 296 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: call for somebody to get over that house now and check, 297 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, what's going on, and get ready to call 298 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: the police. So people are using their own resources of 299 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: people they trust and love to protect our kids. Remember, 300 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: as parents, we are protectors. So we're protective parents, but 301 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: we need help, and help is putting things in spotlight 302 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: and using the people you know would trust to help. 303 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: You know, I'm like you, Laura Oglesby, when the twins 304 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: still had babysitters during the day, I told the babysitters 305 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: right up front, there's an Annie cam. I've got them 306 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: all over the house. Just know that. And I didn't 307 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: suggest that they were going to do anything bad or wrong. 308 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: I just, you know, wanted it very clear. I had 309 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: my eyes on them. Twenty four seven, three sixty five. 310 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: Thank God in Heaven, guys, take a listen to our 311 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: cut five. This is justin Lunday w t N. I 312 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: wanted to kick, I wanted to come here, and I 313 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: wanted to pin her down, and I wanted to put 314 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: foods in her mouth. That was Laura Oglesby's initial reaction 315 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: when she and her husband Max took a peep of 316 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: their out home security camera while that worked Tuesday night 317 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: to discover their namey Rold restraining the crying two year 318 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: old son declin In, appearing to force feeder. In the video, 319 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: you can hear Declin's struggling against rope as she appears 320 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: to try and push chicken pot pie into his mouth. 321 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: Did you ever suspect your nanny of doing something like this? No, 322 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: of course. I mean, you don't leave your child with 323 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: someone who suspect would harm them. So we had no 324 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: thought process that she would do anything like this or 325 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: any complete shot, complete shot. And I'm just trying to 326 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: figure out, Laura Oglesby, when you were racing home, trying 327 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: to get home, what was going through your mind? My 328 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: child safety. I was wondering what else was going on. 329 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: I also was still watching it live, So yeah, I 330 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: mean I was just I was at a loss. Guys, 331 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: we are talking with Declin's mom, Laura Oglesby. Levi Pays 332 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: joining me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter or leave 333 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: I take it from the top. What happened? So? Max 334 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: and Laura Oglesby lived in Newborn, North Carolina, and they're 335 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: renovating a bar that they owned forty five minutes away 336 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: in Washington, North Carolina. They took a break from renovating, 337 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: they decided to look at the security cameras they had 338 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: set up in the house and October twenty six US 339 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: when this happened, they discovered two year old Declan screaming, 340 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: no crying out for his daddy, sobbing, and the nanny 341 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,719 Speaker 1: forced feeding him chicken pot pie she was also holding 342 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: his arms behind his back, and also, Nancy, the most 343 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: disturbing part to me is when she put her hand 344 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: over his mouth after forcing food into it. Okay, guys, 345 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: pinning a child's arms behind it's back, right there, Chris Buyers, 346 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: You've seen a lot of child abuse cases. When you're 347 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: pinning a child's arms back, that should be internal bill 348 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: of alarm to you that what you're doing is wrong. Yeah. Absolutely, 349 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: Just you know, as a parent, I just cannot imagine 350 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: doing that to a child. And as a caregiver, she 351 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: knew exactly what she was doing that was injuring that 352 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: sound absolutely and what is that joining us? Our psychologist 353 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: psychotherapist doctor Teresa Guild to exert to want to exert 354 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: power and control over your child. And I don't mean 355 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: when they misbehave, you don't swat them on the booty 356 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: or give them time out or take away a privilege. 357 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: I'm not saying don't discipline your child. They have to 358 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: know don't run out in the road, don't jump out 359 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: of the car, wear your seatbelt. They have to know 360 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: certain rules to live. But when you physically exert control 361 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: over them, what is that need inside an adult to 362 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: do that to a child. I think this thing that 363 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: stood out for me the most time I watched the 364 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: video was how calm she was and unaffected by his cries. 365 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: And she really believed. The word control comes up again. 366 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: If you don't control you're two year old, he will 367 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: walk all over you. And I don't believe, and I've 368 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: seen this before and working with mothers or parents who 369 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: have been abusive, that they have any recollection nor any 370 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: idea of what they have. What they're doing is actually abuse. 371 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure if you talk to her, she would say, 372 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: I was disciplining him, and I was teaching him right 373 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: for wrong, and I was making sure that he ate. 374 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: And I was looking at some of the Facebook comments 375 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: from people and a number of the Facebook and I 376 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: usually go to Facebook comments just to kind of gauge 377 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: how people are thinking on things, and one woman said 378 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: that nanny was in control and not abusive. He was 379 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: just a spoiled child and she just wanted him to 380 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: take one bite. You know, they're so interesting that you 381 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: said that, doctor Gill, because we recently covered the case 382 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: where a cop and his new wife took his natural 383 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: son that he had from his first wife and to 384 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: discipline the child would make him go sleep out in 385 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: the garage at night to discipline him, and he died. 386 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: He died of hypothermia. It was later discovered that he 387 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: had been disciplined with beatings and withholding food, all sorts 388 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: of discipline that ended up with the boy dead. And 389 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: I have heard that same sad song about just disciplining 390 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: the child from so many murderers that it actually makes 391 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: me feel nauseous to hear some uninformed person on Facebook 392 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: say that. And just because it's done in control, and 393 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: it's not done with screens, and it's done with thinking 394 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: ahead of exactly what you want to do. They think 395 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: parents that it's not abuse, it is punishment and teaching 396 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: them right from wrong. Okay to you, Laura Ogglesby, you're 397 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: hearing what our Facebook friends have to say about this. 398 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: What's your reaction to that, Laura, I'm kind of trying 399 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: to take everybody's comments with a grain of salt. I mean, 400 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: there's something that are really supportive, but there's also a 401 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: lot of people out there that are saying like that 402 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: mother shouldn't work, that they should be at home taking 403 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: care of their children, and that nobody else should be 404 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: taking care of your children for you, and that my 405 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: child is a brat, and that several, I mean several 406 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: mean things have been said. I'm just trying to go 407 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: let it brush off my shoulder because clearly a lot 408 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: of those people probably don't have kids. So yeah, you know, 409 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: Laura ogglesby, you says you're going to take it with 410 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: a grain of salt, as I like to say, I'll 411 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: take it with the bots assault on that one. Guys, 412 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seven. This is Kate 413 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: Pussy WCTI. The couple's emotions still running high thinking about 414 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: the moment, Laura just happened to pull up her home 415 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: security camera footage on her phone well at work Tuesday night, 416 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: to see their nanny, who police confirm is twenty five 417 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: year old Lauren Rowe holding their child down in his 418 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: high chair forcing food into his mouth. We were in shock. 419 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: It didn't seem like it was all real at the time, 420 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: but the immediate reaction was we need to get her 421 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: as far away from o children as possible. The couple 422 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: nearly an hour away in Washington, racing home as quickly 423 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: as they could. While we were driving, we had it 424 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: on and we were watching the whole thing. Time stories 425 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys in this case appearance race home 426 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: to get to the scene as quickly as they can. 427 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight News Channel twelve. 428 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: The couple filed a police report with Newburn Police the 429 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: very next day. She came highly recommended. Her background was clear, 430 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: and there were no red class up until that point. 431 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: No row even how to profile oncare dot com. The 432 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: company tells me the background check all caregivers, a process 433 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: that includes running a social Security number trace, checking national 434 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: sex offender, public websites, performing multi jurisdictional criminal database searches, 435 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: and going through both federal and county criminal records. To you, 436 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: Laura Oglesby, how did you find this babysitter? So I 437 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: went on to a Facebook mom's group, and I saw 438 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: that she had been recommended in there as a swim 439 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: teacher for infant and a lot of people were recommending 440 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: her for that. Then wherever I actually reached out to 441 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: her to see if she did nanny. She said that 442 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: she had done it for three years back in California. 443 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: So we brought her in for an interview, and then 444 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: after the interview, I re checked oncare dot com to 445 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: make sure that she's verified and everything, and she was, 446 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: and so then we ended up higher on you know, 447 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: Doug Burns. We have covered severalcare dot com cases, sure, 448 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: and usually they did not end up the way this 449 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: case ended up. Guys, take a listen to our cut fifteen. 450 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: This is Heather Lee at k m EG Fox forty four. 451 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: October twenty nine, thirty three year old Rochelle Stapp was 452 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: watching three year old Autumn Eldersma at her in home 453 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: daycare center. A court document, Sapp called Autumn's mother around 454 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: nine o'clock that morning to tell her Autumn had fallen 455 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: down the stairs. She said she would keep a close 456 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: eye on Autumn and give her some tail in all. 457 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: Not even twenty minutes later, Sap called Autumn's mother again 458 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: to tell her Autumn was quote way out of it 459 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: and that she thought her neck was hurt. Autumn's mother 460 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: rushed to SAP's house. Autumn was taken to Orange City Hospital, 461 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: but because her injuries were so bad, she was airlifted 462 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: to a hospital in Swoux Falls. Doctors there diagnosed her 463 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: with the skull fracture and brain swelling. She died of 464 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: her injuries October thirty, first SAP's initial claimed that Autumn 465 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: fell down the stairs didn't match up with a medical 466 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: opinion that the little girl's injuries were not consistent with 467 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: that kind of fall. Stap later told police she threw 468 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: the girl down hard on the floor, causing her to 469 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: hit her head, because she was frustrated with Autumn, who 470 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: was having trouble getting her jacket off. To Laura Oglesby, 471 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: the Autumn case, little Autumn who died after being thrown 472 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: down the stairs by her babysitter after they had had 473 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: an escalating argument over where this little three year old, 474 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: whether the little girl three years old would wear her coat. 475 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: And it's amazing how an adult with a child, a 476 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: two or three year old child can have an argument 477 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: escalate and the child ends up dead. When you think 478 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: back on what you saw on your home surveillance cam, 479 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: the argument escalating between your baby Decline just two years old, 480 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: and Lauren Row, the twenty five year old babysitter, can 481 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: you imagine what could have happened? Yeah, I mean that 482 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: was honestly the first one of the first things to 483 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: with her my head is that she could end up 484 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: killing him like that was one of the main reasons 485 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: that I wanted somebody here to take care of him 486 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: and hurt on because I didn't know what she was 487 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: capable of after that point. And we do have stairs 488 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: at our house, and if she literally had no problem 489 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: with sticking her hand over his mouth and plugging his 490 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: nose while he's also sick and has a running nose 491 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: so he can't breathe out of it anyway. Laura, how 492 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: has Decline behaved after this incident. Every night since this 493 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: all happened, she's been waking up in the middle of 494 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: the night, and it's not a normal like Toddler sometimes 495 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: will wake up in fus He screams bloody murder to 496 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: the point where I'm almost scared to go and there 497 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: because I'm scared somebody's in there with him. Then also 498 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: now he if you try to go up to him 499 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: to like hand him anything or ask him to come here, 500 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: he'll run and hide. He'll hide behind the couch, He'll 501 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: hide behind if you're outside, he hides behind the trees. 502 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: And he has been attached to my hip since this 503 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: all happened. I cannot even get out of his eyesight 504 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: without him freaking out, you know, And it makes me 505 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: wonder what has happened before you saw it on the video? 506 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: What may have happened outside the video eyeline? And that's 507 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: what I was asking you earlier. Tapati Safety Expert author 508 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: Personal Protection Handbook. Where should you place the videos? I 509 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: call them all nanny cams, a home surveillance security videos. 510 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: Where should they be? You got to put them in 511 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: direct angles where you could cover the whole room. You know, 512 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: most people see exterior cameras. They may have one or 513 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: two inside. But for the cost of cameras today and 514 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: as small as they are, I mean, it's very cost effective. 515 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: But when they're placed or at the highest angle, that 516 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: opens up the whole room so you could see everything. 517 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: Mommy races home to try and save her two year 518 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: old little boy decline. Not everybody has been as lucky 519 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: as Laura Oglesby. Take a listen to our cut sixteen, 520 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: A nanny camera captures shocking images of a nanny named 521 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: Dana Cash allegedly shaking a one year old girl. Child's 522 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: mother who didn't want to be identified and spoke to 523 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: us exclusively. I was appalled, She says. She first found 524 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 1: this video after her eight year old son, who witnessed 525 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: the pack, told her about it. After the mom found 526 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: the video and watched it for herself. She then showed 527 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: it to Cash. That baby was saved, much like Laura 528 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: Oglesby's baby was saved. But we haven't all been so lucky. 529 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut seventeen, when a mother 530 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: checked in on her two year old special need son 531 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: from the nanny Kim app on her phone. Something didn't 532 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: seem right. I saw her just looking at him and 533 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything while he's screaming and crying, and 534 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 1: I thought that was odd. What Diana co was about 535 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: to see next would shake her to her core and 536 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: changed her life forever. Diana quickly figured out the nurse 537 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: who was supposed to be caring for her son was 538 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: beating him. The nurse's abuse gets more savage. At one point, 539 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 1: she rolls up a magazine and uses it as a weapon. 540 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: The excruciating scene played out as Diana watched it live. 541 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: She and her husband were at least twenty minutes away. 542 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: Diana and her husband called nine police race to the scene. 543 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: You see them arrive and arrest the nurse, making this 544 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: all the more horrific. You were hearing our friends just 545 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: then at CBSLA and before at ABC seven. Now take 546 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eighteen. ABC seven Maria Gonzalez 547 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: is facing child's abuse charges after Livermore PD says the 548 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: twenty year old nanny was caught on camera. Neighbors describe 549 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: Gonzalez as smiling and bubbling. According to charging documents, on 550 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: February eighteenth, Gonzalez was caring for a thirteen month old boy. 551 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: When the boy's mom came home, she discovered abuse when 552 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: she watched nanny cam video. Specifically, Gonzalez was attempting to 553 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: calm the baby. When she placed her hands closer to 554 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: the baby's face, his cries went from clear and audible 555 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: to muffled. The baby began to squirm and kick and 556 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: then went limp. She was strangling and smothering the baby. 557 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: All this was revealed on nanny cam. To Laura Oglesby, 558 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: be Declan's mother, what do you have to say to 559 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: those nonbelievers about security camps. I think it's incredibly important 560 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: because outside of even if you don't have a nanny, 561 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: you can still see, like if your child somehow falls 562 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: down and hits their head and something's wrong with them, 563 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,959 Speaker 1: you can replace back the film and you can see 564 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: what happened, and no better on what you can tell 565 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: doctors and emergency people that come responders all together. A 566 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: security system is so important. In our Gay to You, 567 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: Chris Buyer's police former police chief John's Creek. I included 568 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: in my last book, Don't Be a Victim, a case 569 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: where three children went missing and they've been playing in 570 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: the front yard, and the mom and the family, everybody's 571 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: going out yelling and screaming for them, and they were 572 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: found in an abandoned freezer that him like one of 573 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: those chest freezers that had been pulled out by either 574 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: them or the neighbor to go out with the trash. 575 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,720 Speaker 1: When the trashman came and all three children had gotten 576 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: into the freezer and they all three died. If they 577 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: had had a nanny cam like Laura Oglesby has sort 578 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: of security surveillance, they may have been saved. Yeah. Absolutely, 579 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: I mean just think if you had that surveillance system 580 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: you could go back to and watch and get to 581 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,479 Speaker 1: them with them minutes. It would have been, like you said, 582 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: life saving and day burns now juries. Practically expect it. 583 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: When you have a case. They want to know is 584 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: their surveillance video and it is craned so many cases, 585 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: Doug Burns, no question about it, Nancy. You know whatever, 586 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: they call it the CSI effect. You know, jurors are 587 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: expecting more and more concrete evidence, and again not to 588 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: be a broken record. In this case. You have the 589 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: whole thing right there on the video. And you know 590 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 1: the statute, by the way, real quick talks about creating 591 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: an unreasonable risk of physical injury. That's crystal clear, and 592 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: that makes it a crime on their North Carolina. You 593 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: know what, I'm really surprised about, Doug Burds. This has 594 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: only been charged as a misdemeanor. You don't have you 595 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: noticed that when a child is a victim, very often 596 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,439 Speaker 1: the cases they're pled down to manslaughter or the perp 597 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: gets a lighter sentence. I noticed it when I was prosecuting. 598 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: You kill a man or a woman, you're going down 599 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: for murder. You kill an infant, and it's chalked off as, oh, 600 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: the parent was frustrated and it's a voluntary manslaughter. I 601 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: hate that. It's interesting that you say that, because of 602 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: course I noticed that it was charged that way. Unfortunately, 603 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 1: and again, apologies, this is just excess. I know, it's 604 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, courtroom talk. The point is, thank God, obviously 605 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 1: obviously editorial, that the child was not you know, seriously harmed, 606 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: although charging as a felony. Doug, God, the baby's not dead. 607 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: You didn't let me, you didn't let me finish. And 608 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: the point I'm trying to make is that in the 609 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: real world, day to day, it's too much driven by 610 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: the level of injury. That's what dictates how it's charged. Well, 611 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you this. If somebody got you dug Burns, 612 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: which should be probably hard to do because you're over 613 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: six feet, but somehow managed to get a hold of you, 614 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: throw you down, pin your arms behind your back, stuff something. 615 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: Let's just say a sot down your throat, pinch your nose, 616 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: and hold your mouth shut. I bet that would be 617 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: an aggravated assault, which is a felony Burns inherent yea 618 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: inherent in. What I was saying is is that I disagree, 619 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: and I've seen it time and time again in over 620 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 1: thirty years, where the injury dictates everything, and that should 621 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: not be the case because in this particular case, in 622 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,439 Speaker 1: this particular case, you could have had this child choke 623 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: to death so fast your head would be spending and 624 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: it should be charged as a felony. I agree with you, 625 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,760 Speaker 1: Laura Oglesby. This has got to make your heads spin. 626 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: Why is this woman just charged with a misdemeanor. She's 627 00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 1: going to get straight probation, you know that, right? Yeah, 628 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: they told me that the max that she would probably 629 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: do with the sixty days. And actually, when I went 630 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: to the police station to begin with the cops, they 631 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: were all very nice. He was trying to find something 632 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: in the video to be able to charge her with 633 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: child abuse. And what happened was I had a splot 634 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: down the video sent zoom in to prove that she 635 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: was pubbing his mouth and his nose, not just his mouth, 636 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: and not cupping under his chin, and that's what made 637 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,880 Speaker 1: a child abuse. I think this is really wrong the 638 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 1: way it's charged, Laura. This should be a felony. If 639 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: this was done to an adult, this would be a felony. 640 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: If I grabbed Jackie here and pinch her nose and 641 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: hold her mouth shut, and no, that is a felony. 642 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: So Leavi page, what is happening with this case? Well, Nancy, 643 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: that nanny, Lauren Rowe, twenty five years old, was arrested. 644 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: She was charged with misdemeanor child abuse and thirty minutes 645 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: later she posted bond and was released two five hundred 646 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: dollars and the state of North Carolina for misdemeanor child abuse. 647 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: The max that she can get is one hundred and 648 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: fifty days m We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy Grace 649 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: comes story, signing off goodbye friends.