1 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to gear Talk. We've got my 2 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: co host, he Honest patel Us on, myself, Jordan Bud 3 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: and then we have a special guest, Heidi Allen from 4 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: nick Wax is on and we're gonna dive into all 5 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: things gear care. So I really appreciate you hopping on, Heidi. Yeah, 6 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: no worries. Uh. Like I said, I always love chatting 7 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: about gear care. So I'm just really excited to be 8 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: here with you all today and nerd out on how 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: to extend life of your outdoor clothing, footwear and equipment. Yeah, 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: we we love it. Can you give a little background 11 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: for listeners on just I guess your background in some 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: of these things, like coming from nick Wax and and 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: your roll at nick Wacks and all that. Absolutely. Yes, 14 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: So I've been I've been with nick Wacks for just 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: over fourteen years now. Um. Started when I was a 16 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: young un and worked my way up in the North 17 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: American office. I've I've done all sorts of things for 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: the company. Um. I really, I've been there for so 19 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: long because I just love helping people extend the life 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: of their outdoor gear. I came to nick Wacks from 21 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: kind of the the outdoor industry guiding. UM ran my 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: own little gear shop for a while, so just seen 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: seen different elements of the outdoor and outdoor adjacent industries. 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: We did a little program at nick Wacks a while 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: back that we called gear Rehab where people could send 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: in a piece of gear one piece of year per 27 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: person for a year, and we would clean them and 28 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: rewater proof them and send them back. And I personally 29 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: cleaned hundreds and hundreds of pieces of gear during that program. 30 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: So I've had some pretty intense hand on experience as 31 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: as well as you know working in the in the 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 1: corporate minds. So what happened to that program? Uh uh, 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, it was a little bit labor intensive doing 34 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: all that gear care. Um, it was great while lasted, 35 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: but I think in the end I would prefer teaching 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: people how to care for their own gear then doing 37 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: it for them. You know, I'm I can't be everyone's mom, uh. 38 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: I want people to be able to do it on 39 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: their own. So uh yeah, but it did afformed me 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: with a great amount of practical kind of knowledge and 41 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: know how and my teammates that helped me out at 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: the time. Also, we're ready to move on from it, 43 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: let's say once, so we wrapped it up. That makes sense. Hey, 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: before we jump into how to take care of gear, 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: just tell us I want to know what you do, 46 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: because I didn't ask you this when we chatted prior 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: to the interview. What do you do outdoors for fun? Like? 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: What are your main escapes outside? Yeah, you know it's 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: shifted throughout the years. I kind of started in more 50 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: with the rock climbing side of things, and uh went 51 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: into a bunch of snowboarding, and then in as I'm 52 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: getting older and want to deal with less crowds, Uh, 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: I've taken up fly fishing and surfing, which are kind 54 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: of two of my main activities at the moment. Well 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: around well, you know we live in Washington. There's tons 56 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: of awesome stuff to do out here outside. Okay, Well, 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: let's dive in. We're gonna start with outerwear. And when 58 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: when we say outerwear, we're talking mostly about uh, water proof, 59 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: water resistant garments like raine jackets, maybe soft shell jackets 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: that have a durable water repellent d w R finish 61 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: on them, uh, pants of the same nature, et cetera. 62 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: So anything that you're mostly trying to keep the weather 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: off of you is what we mean by outerwear before 64 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: we jump into how to treat it. Though, there's been 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: a chat in the industry, just general outer where industry. 66 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: It's not limited to hunting and fishing, but there's a 67 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: The durable water repellent finish it's on your outer aware 68 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: is going through some changes and it's because of what 69 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: it was made out of, what um was found out about, 70 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: like the chemicals that they used to make it and so, 71 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: and it's basically bad for us, it's bad for the environment, 72 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: et cetera. I'm here to learn more about that. Heidi 73 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: is going to explain sort of the changes in DWR 74 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: that have happened over the last couple of decades. Is 75 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: that a good setup, HEDI? Yeah, I think that that 76 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: sounds right right on the nose. Um. We can dive 77 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: in a little bit too as to what dw R 78 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: is and how it kind of helps with your waterproof 79 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: garments too. I think that would be great for folks. 80 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure everyone knows just exactly what it is. Yeah, 81 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: let's start with that and then we'll talk about how 82 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: it's changing. Yeah, So, yeah, what the heck is dw 83 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: R anyway? And why is it important. So uh, as 84 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned, you already called it out. D w R 85 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: stands for durable water repellency, and it's that coating that 86 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: exists on the outside of rain jackets, e jackets, even 87 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: tense backpacks, hiking boots, basically any piece of clothing or 88 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: outdoor gear where the water forms little we call them 89 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: beads on the surface that allows the water to roll 90 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: off and not absorb into the outer fabric. Now this 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: is really important because all of those items, we want 92 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: them to be waterproof, breathable, so d w R won't 93 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: be on things that are not designed to be breathable. 94 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: So you're, you know, kind of your slicker raincoats, you're 95 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: rubber fishing boots, those sorts of things. Those aren't designed 96 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: to be breathable, so they don't need to employ uh 97 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: dw R coating. Uh d w R does exist on 98 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: items that use mem brains, so more nerdy talk, but 99 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: gortex is probably the best known membrane on the market, 100 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: and membranes are generally fused to an outer fabric and 101 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 1: sometimes also to an inner fabric, depending on the layer 102 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: of the jacket and a membrane. It works by allowing 103 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: the water vapor, so your sweat um from your body 104 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 1: or water vapor coming off of your body to escape UM, 105 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: but also prevents water droplets of coming through because the 106 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: molecules of water vapor are smaller than water as a 107 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: liquid woo um. However, exciting stuff um with these membranes, 108 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: because they are fused to that outer fabric, they need 109 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: d w R on the outside for them to work 110 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: as effectively as possible, because if that outer fabric absorbs 111 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: water and gets wet, then the moisture vapor from inside 112 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: can't escape, that can't get through that water barrier. So 113 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: basically you're really nice jacket turns into more like a 114 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: garbage bag feeling thing thing jacket. Uh. Also, if that 115 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: outer fabric is wet, it's going to make you feel 116 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: a lot colder and clammi er um. It's going to 117 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: bring down the temperature of your body by wearing a big, heavy, 118 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: wet thing. So DWR does those two great things. It keeps, 119 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, your jacket from being a big soggy, wet mess, 120 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: but it also helps maintain the breathe ability. And that's 121 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: really what we're paying for with these really great pieces 122 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: of gear piety. If I can interrupt. I think it's 123 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: it's important to note so every understands too, that the 124 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: d w R is a finish. It's it's not a layer. 125 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: It's it's it's not like the gortex, it's not the membrane, 126 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: it's not the outer nylon. It's literally like a chemical 127 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: treatment finish that is applied to the outside, right correct, Yes, uh, 128 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: it is exactly that, um. And there's different types for sure, 129 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, pretty much all of its applied to the 130 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: exterior of the jacket as a finish. And we like 131 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: to say it's a d w R because it is durable, 132 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: but it's not a permanent finish. Um, it's not, you know, 133 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: permanently bound to the jacket. So that's a great call out. Absolutely. Okay, 134 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: so that's what it is. Let's jump into the I 135 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: didn't even have it in my notes, so I'm gonna 136 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: mess it up. But the p f C s right. Yes, 137 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: So that's what it is, and now we can talk 138 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: about what is it made out of. So right now 139 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about factory applied d w R codings, things 140 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: that are applied to fabrics, leather, everything at the factory level. UM. 141 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: So back in the day. UM. What this d w 142 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: R was. We used what was called a C eight, 143 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: which was an eight carbon chain UM technology and it 144 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: was super durable and this this kind of finish. It's 145 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: something that was used in Teflon pans as well as 146 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: rain jackets. And you might remember the kerfuffle around Teflon 147 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: a while ago. That was around the same time that 148 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: globally we started moving away from C eight because we 149 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: found out that while it is extremely durable, it does 150 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: a great job at repelling water and oil. Unfortunately, it 151 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: is extremely persistent in the environment. It bioaccumulates, so that 152 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: means it builds up in the human body and other creatures, 153 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: and when it does that, it causes all sorts of 154 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: health problems, cancer, reproductive issues, the the whole shebang. So 155 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: we moved away from C eight because again, while it 156 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: was great at repelling water, was not so great for 157 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: all those reasons. Uh, And so the the industry went 158 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: to C six again talking about factory applied d w 159 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: R UM, which was a six chain H so a 160 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: little bit less durable. Oh. That started happening around between 161 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: teen twenty ish it started taking effect UM so not 162 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: a super long time ago. UM in the scheme of things, 163 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: and people did notice a little bit of a difference 164 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: UM in the durability of that water repellent coading on 165 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: their gear. Again, because that chain is shorter, it just 166 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: wasn't quite as tenacious, but the intent was that it 167 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: was also not as tenaciously persistent in the environment. UM. 168 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of the story up until now. UM. However, 169 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: very recently this fall, UH quite a few states have 170 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: started with California, have decided that they're going to outlaw 171 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: all use of UM p fas p F A S 172 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: which is the family of all of the p f 173 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: C s UM and they don't want to use any 174 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: of them in apparel or household good cosmetics and so 175 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: by most outdoor brands are going to be moving away 176 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: from uh these PFC d w rs and that's going 177 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: to it's been shaking things up a little bit. UM. 178 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: Brands are looking to find solutions to apply to jackets. 179 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: They want, you know, their customers to be happy and 180 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: and dry and still able to go out and play 181 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: on the outdoors and be comfortable. But it's taking a 182 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: little bit of of ingenuity and a lot of research 183 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: to try to find a good alternative yeah, is there 184 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: an alternative? There are a couple, but not a lot. Um, 185 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: and that's what the scramble is happening. Uh. The industry 186 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: always we always kind of knew I say the industry, 187 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean any you know, kind of apparel, footwear, equipment manufacturer, 188 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: outdoor industry, hunting industry, etcetera. Uh, clarify that, Um, we 189 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: always knew that there's going to be a move away 190 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: from these chemicals, but there was never really a very 191 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: clear timeline set and so a lot of brands kind 192 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: of had their ow timelines, you know. And then this 193 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: legislation hit and it accelerated the process to a point 194 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: where there's there's a scramble to find a solution that 195 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: can integrate effectively with a lot of the different manufacturing processes. So, uh, 196 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: that's going on. I'm not like the foremost expert in 197 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: uh in all of the factory applied technologies that exist 198 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: on the market, but as an aftercare brand, we are 199 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: hoping to be able to support our brand partners in 200 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: the transition. And then we're also um excited about technology 201 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: that exists out there that's free of these u P 202 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: fast chemicals because they're they're not good for people in 203 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: the environment. And that's why we've never used them. UM, 204 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: we don't really believe that they're they're great. So yeah, well, 205 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: thank thy. That is not an easy thing to explain. 206 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: I think you did a good job. Thank you for that. UM. 207 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: I was unaware, but I did some research after we 208 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: did a little had a little chat pre podcast a 209 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and so I did a little 210 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: research about what First Light was doing for this. They 211 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: have a new what they're calling, um like a green 212 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: d w R that's not a C six, it's called 213 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: R three. UM. They tested it against the C six 214 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: stuff and just quickly so you can see what First 215 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: Lights doing, and I'm guessing that the competitors are doing 216 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: the same thing. But in they're testing it said that 217 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: all C six tests were substantially worse than the R 218 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: three in water repellency and water absorption. In the Bundessman 219 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: rain shower test, uh C six performed lower on hydrostatic head. 220 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: Don't know what that means. Maybe you can film it 221 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: in on that heidi UM the results were still high, 222 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: but lower than the R three. R three showed better, 223 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: more consistent peeling resistance through more washes, than the C 224 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: six X, indicating better lamination strength and laminate waterproof durability. Um. 225 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: And that was pretty much it from their notes. So, uh, 226 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: First Light should be shouting off the rooftops. I think 227 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: if it's it's true what you're saying, Hoid, that it's 228 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: a big problem and people haven't found a solution because 229 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: according to the crew over there, uh and catch them, 230 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: they have a solution. So I'll be interested to hear 231 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: from people. Uh, you know, please you know, right right 232 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: into gear talk at the meat Eater, or join us 233 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: on the on the podcasts page, in the in the forum, 234 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: in the conversation, and let us know if you've noticed 235 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: a difference in d w R over the years and 236 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: the performance of it. I'd be interested to hear about that. Yeah, 237 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to do this a little bit of 238 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: of googling myself on this new one that you just 239 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: told me about here that First Light's using, because I 240 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: think that's awesome. Like if we can get great per 241 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: formants and keep people dry outside without having to use 242 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: these forever chemicals, I think that is just an enormous win. Um. 243 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: So I'm stoked about that. And uh, basically a lot 244 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: of UM. A lot of the challenge that people have 245 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: been having with UH, with dwrs that do not use 246 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: these forever chemicals is UM the oliophobicity of them. So 247 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: the ability to repel oils aren't quite as up there 248 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: with the the p f A S chemicals. That's why 249 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: those are used for cookware and that sort of thing, 250 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: a lot of food packaging. UM. So when it comes 251 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: to finding alternatives, care is going to be more important 252 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: than ever because keeping these items clean is really gonna 253 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: ensure that you're gonna get that great water performance. I mean, 254 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: as you know outdoors people, I feel like we just 255 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: beat the heck out of these out of these pieces 256 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: and UM A lot of times, I mean I'm super 257 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: guilty of it. Like get to the end of a 258 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: hunt or a hunting season, it just gets hung in 259 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: the closet and unless it's really dirty, I just don't 260 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: clean it. And you didn't even clean it once during 261 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: the season. No, No, yes, pearls, I'd be clutching them 262 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: right now. Listen. I've been I've been having to wash 263 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: my I've been using my rain gear as sort of 264 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: my main outerwear as I'm hunting lions and honey Lions 265 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: required a lot of time spent with the snowmobile and 266 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: the trailer and just the truck. And this time of year, 267 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you live in a in a snowy, 268 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: cold place, you know, temperature are fluctuating, and there's just 269 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: dirt and dust and dirty snow and oil and grease 270 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: and stuff. And I'm constantly underneath, you know, when I 271 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: rolled my snowmobile over, I'm underneath pushing on it, or 272 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm on the trailer tightening it down whatever, and my 273 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: pants and everything. It's just constantly looking like I just 274 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: changed the oil, you know, wearing my nice outer wear. Um, 275 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: so I've been washing in a bunch. I'm interested to 276 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: see if I've been doing it properly. Per hidees recommendations here, 277 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: So I guess let's first, Heidi start with why is 278 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: it important to keep your outerwear clean? Yeah, so a 279 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: lot of people are actually intimidated to clean their outerwear, 280 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: especially like the higher tech or the more expensive it is. 281 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: There's this fear that washing it is going to ruin it, 282 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: when it really couldn't be further from the truth. Even 283 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: Gortex recommends that you're washing. They say you should want 284 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: be washing your cortex jacket like every month, every thirty days, 285 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: and that's coming straight from gortex. Um. So the thing 286 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: is is if your gear gets dirty, all that dirt oils. Uh, 287 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: all those things will actually attract water into the surface 288 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: fabric of your jacket. They will cause that water appellent 289 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: coating to not work effectively, which will then make your 290 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: jacket get super wet. So the dirtier your gear is, 291 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: the worst it's gonna work. So that's why cleaning is 292 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: so important, is because you're removing all of those residues 293 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: that are going to cause your jacket too wet out. Um. 294 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: That's the term I like to use with the industry 295 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: uses for if your jacket just soaks up water wedding 296 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: out um. So regular cleaning super key. I always like 297 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: to say clean whenever your jacket looks dirty. So I 298 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: mean it kind of sounds like a super obvious thing, 299 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: but if you look like even rolling around under a snowbile, 300 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: maybe wash your jacket. Um. But also sometimes there are 301 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: things that you can't really see on your jacket that 302 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: can cause it to wet out. So body oils from 303 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: like touching certain parts of your jacket, like especially around 304 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: the zippers and pockets and cuffs. Um. Even camp fire 305 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: smoke is crazy because that residue will get on your 306 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: jacket and that can cause your jacket to wet out prematurely. Um. 307 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: And I know everyone likes smelling neck camp fire like 308 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of like makes you feel all woodsy and happy, 309 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: but it doesn't do great things for the performance. So 310 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: you're telling me just by hanging out by a camp fire, 311 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: I am killing the water repellency of my jacket. You 312 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: are not doing it any favors. Also, I just in 313 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: general don't recommend hang i camp fires in any sort 314 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: of synthetic jacket. A little flying embers love to blast 315 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: holes and puffy jackets and rain jackets and all those things. 316 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: So what like what kind of impact do you see 317 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: on I guess like the life of if you weren't 318 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: around a camp fire one night and got your jacket 319 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: full of smoke, Like, would you see better repellency for 320 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: like an extra two weeks if that wouldn't have happened 321 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: or I'm sure that's hard to quantify. Yeah, it could 322 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: be hot, and it depends on how smoky was the campfire, etcetera, etcetera. Um, 323 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: but you will see reduced performance. Um. And that in 324 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: combination again with touching your jacket or leaning over your 325 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: truck to clean off your windshield. I mean, all those 326 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: things are going to contribute to your jackets starting to 327 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: wet out and not work the way it should. Okay, 328 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: And when it wets out, it's not the membrane, it's 329 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: not the gortex or the thirty seven point five technology 330 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: in there that's causing it to wet out. It's the 331 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: fact that your dw R quit working right exactly. Yeah, 332 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: your jack is not ruined. No need to freak out. Um. Really, 333 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: we always say just clean it first. That's like the 334 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: most important thing you can do with your gears. Just 335 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: just just clean it. Please clean your jackets. Um. By 336 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: keeping them clean, you're gonna have that dw are working 337 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: the best that it can. I will say. Uh. Household 338 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: detergents can also leave behind residues that are similar to 339 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: all those things I just described, and that they will 340 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: attract water into the surface fabrict of your jackets. So 341 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: put away your rainforest bomb splash household detergent, use a 342 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: technical cleaner. It's gonna be way better. And if they're 343 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 1: meant to actually preserve that water uppellp coating on your jacket. 344 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: So if I was at home and I don't have 345 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: any technical cleaner yet, but my jackets looking dirty and 346 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: I can't make it to the store to buy any 347 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: for a few days, but I want to wash my 348 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: jacket right now. Would it be better just to throw 349 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: it in with a little bit of tide or should 350 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: I just maybe wash it on with no soap at 351 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: all and just let it run through a cycle. Uh, 352 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: to do to let the water and the agitation just 353 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: clean it as best it can. Great question. Um, if 354 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: you have like a really gentle detergent at home, you 355 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: could probably get away with that once or so to 356 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: get the crud off, because oils and dirt are really 357 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: going to pull a lot of water into your jacket. Um, 358 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: but those detergent residues will build up. However, if you've 359 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: got like one of those super crazy detergents, you know 360 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: Billy May's selling it on infomercial style strength, I would say, 361 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: don't use the detergent. It's going to leave all sorts 362 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: of stuff on your jacket that it's going to harm 363 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: the performance. So how would you recommend to wash these products? Yeah? 364 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: So using a technical cleaner is really key. Nick Wax 365 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: tech wash A little name drop there obviously, but it's 366 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: a great one. Um. If you do have any kind 367 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: of stubborn spots or like you know, stains on your jacket, 368 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: you can pre treat by pouring a little bit of 369 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: a technical detergent directly on them or a technical cleaner 370 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: and giving a little scrub with a gentle brush. I 371 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: find that helps lift out more stubborn stains that don't 372 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: necessarily want to go in the first wash. Um, and 373 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: then you can just clean in the washing machine. UM, 374 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty straightforward. Uh. A lot of these also are 375 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: acceptable to be used as a hand wash, So if 376 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: you're somewhere where you don't have access to a washing machine, 377 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: if you're traveling internationally in a hotel, you can absolutely 378 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: hand wash using a technical cleaner to get your jacket 379 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: clean again. UM. I will say sometimes cleaning isn't enough. 380 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: Over time that water up pollant coating I mentioned earlier, durable, 381 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: not permanent. It will wear off. It will from jamming 382 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: it up and stuffing it in your backpack, you know, 383 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: backpack straps. Or you might notice really a braid your 384 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: shoulders and that wears off first. So if cleaning no 385 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: longer is enough, there are products also that help restore 386 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: the water appellent coating on your jacket and other gear 387 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: out there. So there's kind of it's a two step 388 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: process for care for really extending the performance life of 389 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: your of your gear. Okay, so step one would just 390 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: be like wash it and then go use it, and 391 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: then if you're seeing some continued issue, then you do 392 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: like a d w R would be like a spray on. Yeah, 393 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: so there's different types out there, of course. Um there's 394 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: both wash in waterproofing and spray on waterproofing. Um. Obviously 395 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: we always say go do it to brand recommends. So 396 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: if a brand recommends using a spray on, use a 397 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: spray on. I really like washings because you just do 398 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: a second load in your washing machine. You get a 399 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,479 Speaker 1: really even coding, and you don't have to have your 400 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: jacket like you know, dripping all over the floor of 401 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: your house. UM. So I'm a big proponent of doing 402 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: one cycle to clean and then a second cycle to rewaterproof. 403 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: We make a product called t X Direct that's great 404 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: for that. Um. But so again always go with your 405 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: manufacturer's care instructions. First check what they say. But yeah, 406 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: totally two step process. But always make sure you're cleaning 407 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: before your rewaterproofing. There's always a a an inclination. People 408 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: just want to like, grab a dirty jacket. It's not working. 409 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: Just take an aerosol can of some stuff and close 410 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: it down. It's not gonna work. Great. You really need 411 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: to apply waterproofing to a clean item. Um. We like 412 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: to say car analogies. You went just chuck wax all 413 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: over a dirty car, right, you clean the car first, 414 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: then you act the car. Same thing with waterproofing, clean first, 415 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: then waterproof. You got it. So when you're when you're 416 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: doing a product like the t X direct and rewaterproofing, UM, 417 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: that's an air quotes for those of you that can't 418 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: see me. Um, is that actually? Are you like? Actually? 419 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: Is that like Nick Wax's own DWR coding that you're 420 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: now putting on there? Is it revitalizing the existing DWR? 421 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: What exactly is going on when you're you're using a 422 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: rewaterproofing product. Yeah, any rewaterproofing product is going to be 423 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: applying a new coding. UM and most will just fill 424 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: in more or less fill in the gaps that aren't coded, 425 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: so it's hard to waterproof something that's already waterproof. So 426 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: we are products will be sally just rewaterproof any areas 427 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: that aren't already waterproof, So it's re upping where it's 428 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: been removed. So I mean, is it is that like 429 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: a special sauce then? I mean, because obviously it's different 430 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: than the than the stuff that's applied in the factory. 431 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: But how different is it? I mean you can't just 432 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: take a uh, I don't know. I'm trying to think 433 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: of a piece of gear that doesn't have a dw R. 434 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: But I mean cotton T shirt is a bad example 435 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: because obviously that's never gonna be water repellent. But what's 436 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: out there that could be kind of water repellent? And 437 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: then could you make it have a d w R 438 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: by just washing it in t X direct? Yeah? Actually, 439 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: we um, we have a bunch of different waterproofing products. Um, 440 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: we can make things water repellent that aren't. We actually 441 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: have a product called cotton Proof that you can use 442 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: on your cotton items. Um, it will make them water repellent. 443 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: It won't turn your T shirt into a rain jacket. 444 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 1: I mean, the weave is really pretty as much uh, 445 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: looser like rain jackets. The weave of those are super tight. Um, 446 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: a cotton T shirt. You know, water droplets can go 447 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: through the weave of those. But we can make the 448 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: fibers themselves water repellent. We can make polar fleece. You 449 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: can waterproof your polar fleece um, and you can apply 450 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: it to something that you know has a very light 451 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: water pellancy, like a windbreaker. UM. A lot of people 452 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: like to go to you know, thrift stores and buy 453 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: those crazy old eight ski jackets that really don't have 454 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: any water repellency on them anymore, and you can totally 455 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: re up those as well. Mm hmm. And when you're 456 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: at the point of re upping your d w R, 457 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: are you expecting to get like a week of solid 458 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: use out of out of out of a of a 459 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: coding or could he go a month and be like 460 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: a whole hunting season from one use. Well, my my 461 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: favorite everyone else's least favorite answer is it depends on use. 462 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: It depends how much you're using here. So um, basically 463 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: I would I'd say you'd like to rewater proof at 464 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: least once a season if you're looking to really maintain 465 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: dependable performance. However, if you're getting out like both days 466 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: a weekend, every weekend, sometimes on the weekdays throughout a season, 467 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: you might need to do a little more often than that. Uh, 468 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: if you're a power user, you're gonna need to use 469 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: more product to stay dry out there because you're just 470 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: you know, putting your gear through the ringer um. But 471 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: generally a good kind of baseline, as we like to say, 472 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: clean a couple of times a season, rewaterproof once a season. 473 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: And if unless you're like a super hardcore individual, which 474 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: maybe a lot of listeners here are that that'll probably 475 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: do you just fine. Oh yeah, we got nothing but 476 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: hardcores that listen to this show. Uh then weekly now 477 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: just kidding, don't before we get to down one last 478 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: question on drying, because I think that there's there's also 479 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: some myths and wives tales surrounding drying of this outer 480 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: Where can you talk about the dews and don'ts there? Yeah, 481 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: so there's a lot of myths, as you say, around drying, 482 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: and some of them are based in fact um basically, 483 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: all of those factory applied dw rs, the C as 484 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: the C six is um are our heat activated d 485 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: w R. So sometimes just by cleaning your jacket and 486 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: chucking it in the dryer, you can revitalize that dw R. 487 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: It kind of respreads it around on the surface of 488 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: the fabric. UM that said that will only do that 489 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: only you know, last for so long until you actually 490 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: need to apply more water palency to the jacket. UM. 491 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: The other thing I will say, and I said it earlier, 492 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: but always check the manufacturers instructions when it comes to drying. 493 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: Certain types of jackets, like gortex jackets. Gortex is like 494 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: yes throat in the dryer. Gortex loves being chucked in 495 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: the dryer. There are other membranes on the market that 496 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: don't like heat, so make sure that you're really paying 497 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: attention to again those care instructions on the jacket when 498 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: it comes to drying. Especially UM. A benefit of nick Wacks, 499 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: we've never used any p f cs in any of 500 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: any of those uh C eight or C six is 501 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: um in our products, so ours don't need heat to activate. 502 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: So if you don't have a dryer handy, you don't 503 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: need to chuck a knick Wacks treated jacket in the 504 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: dryer to make the water repellent coating work. That's interesting. 505 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: It's usually I try to lean to like air dry, 506 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: so that might not even like air drying might not 507 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: be great for it, Like it just won't be depending 508 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: what it is. If it's a cortex jacket, it's not 509 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: going to be like heating that up and spreading it out. Yeah. 510 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: But if you're using if you're using a nick Wacks 511 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: waterproofer to rewaterproof, you don't need heat, so you can 512 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: absolutely air dry and that's totally fine. Um. But yeah, 513 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: I think the main the main point is to follow 514 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: the care instructions it comes to drying. That's the that's 515 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: the critical piece. And if you know, it's nice if 516 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: you don't have a dryer to be able to air 517 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: dry something and have it still work. Yeah. I believe 518 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: first light says tumble dry low if I'm not mistaken. Um, 519 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: all right, let's move on to down, uh, because down's 520 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: got that Down can be tricky, right because a lot 521 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: of down jackets have a little bit of a d 522 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: w R on the outside. But yet you don't want 523 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: to get you down all glommed up with stuff that 524 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: makes it not fluff up. So what's what's proper care 525 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: for down? Yeah? So it's actually a very similar story 526 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: to your outerware. Clean it. Make sure you're cleaning it regularly. 527 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: Dirt and body oils can get on the down feathers 528 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: themselves over time, and that will cause your jacket to 529 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: lose a loft. Um. Also, if the outer surface of 530 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: your jacket starts wetting out and the water gets through 531 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: to your down we all know down doesn't work when 532 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: it gets wet, so that's going to cause your down 533 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: jacket to not perform the way you want at all. 534 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: So cleaning it regularly super important for maintaining the coating 535 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: on the outside, but also to keeping the feathers nice 536 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: and fluffy. Using a technical cleaner is key because household 537 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: detergents are really harsh and can strip the down of 538 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: some of their natural oils and things, causing them to 539 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: get really brittle and break and kind of break down prematurely. 540 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: So using a proper cleaning product back to that again 541 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: is key. I will say you can you can add 542 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: water palency to a down jacket. There are a lot 543 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: of um hydrophobic waterproof down products on the market. Um. 544 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: But if you have a down jacket at home that 545 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: the outer fabric is starting to wet out, um, well, 546 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: Nick Wax makes a product called down Proof that you 547 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: can actually wash in an old rewaterproof the outer fabric 548 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: of the packet as well as add water pealant seat 549 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: to the individual down plumes, helping to make that jacket 550 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: repel as much water as possible so you maintain loft 551 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: and stay toasty. I'm getting a long list going here 552 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: of nick Wacks products that I have to go buy. Hidi, 553 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: hid what you just said on those down jackets. That 554 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: also applies to like sleeping bags, right, absolutely, yes, sorry, 555 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: it is jack generalized term, but yeah, totally on sleeping 556 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: bags too. Yeah, especially if you're like sleeping in them 557 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: without many clothes on, Like there's a lot of skin contact. 558 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: Seems like that's where you get a lot of oils 559 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: that yeah build up. Yeah, exactly. Um we definitely if 560 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: you're able, using a sleeping bag liner is great to 561 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: help prevent that. But I know a lot of people 562 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: you know, going ultra light sleeping bag liners car are 563 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: a little bit an opposite ethos to that. Um. It's 564 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: also i'd say for sleeping bags, that's really nice to 565 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: have a waterproof down sleeping bag because when you're sleeping, 566 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: you are like your body is exuding a lot of 567 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: moisture vapor, but if it's really cold outside, once that 568 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: goes through the sleeping bag and hits the outer surface, 569 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: it condenses. And so if you're sleeping bag out of 570 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: fabric is no longer waterproof, it's going to soak in 571 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: and then soak into the down and then it's you're 572 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: gonna lose a bit aloft and you're gonna be chilly. 573 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: So it's it's helpful for especially really cold conditions where 574 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: you're going to get that kind of dew point difference 575 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 1: between the sleeping bag in the air. But that happens 576 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: all no matter if it's cold out there or not. 577 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: You're constantly when you're sleeping in a bag, you're producing 578 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: your body is producing some kind of a moisture vapor 579 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: and it's moving into the down and like it's not. 580 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: Your down bag is never as fluffy the seventh day 581 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: of a trip as it is the first day, right, No, no, 582 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: But by making sure that it is at least waterproof 583 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: before or water repellent before the start of your trip, 584 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: you can help prevent your down from absorbing as much 585 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: as that water as it would normally. And so it's 586 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: going to dry out a lot faster so that the 587 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: next day it's not still damp and soggy and uncomfortable. 588 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: I know you're just gonna say it's the same as 589 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: the above, Hidi, But give us the why why are 590 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: dirty boots bad? Yeah? A couple of reasons. The first 591 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: actually with dirty boots is it can get into especially 592 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: with leather, but even with fabric, dirt can kind of 593 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: get into the fibers of the boot when you're walking 594 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: because you get a lot of kind of friction um 595 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: with the bending of the boot and can cause your 596 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: boot to break down prematurely. Also if again really really 597 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: with leathers especially, but if you leave dirt and mud 598 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: to just dry out on your leather boots, it's going 599 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: to cause that leather to dry out prematurely, and that's 600 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 1: when you get cracking in your leather boots. So by 601 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: keeping them clean, you're just making sure that they have 602 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: the best chance to last as long as possible and 603 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: not get dried out and cracked and busted up before 604 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: they need to. And is that dried dirt or mud 605 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: doing that? Is it like an osmosis kind of thing, 606 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: because it's just like a dry cookie sitting on top 607 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: of that nice oiled leather and it just slowly just 608 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: sucks the oil out of the leather. Yeah, just kind 609 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: of yeah, just dries on there. And what it's doing 610 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: that is pulling some of them moisture out of the 611 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: leather at the same time. As another another reason you 612 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to we don't recommend. I would say, uh, 613 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 1: don't dry your footwear out in the blazing sun and 614 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: or don't like stick them under your wood stove to 615 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: dry them out, or right next to the heater, because 616 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: that heat is going to dry out the leather prematurely. 617 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: I mean obviously not under the woodstove. It will melt. 618 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: But heat is not always your friend when it comes 619 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: to keeping your boots clean and dry. Yeah. I can 620 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: make him shrink too. Yeah, that's a good point. I lost. 621 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna mention the name because I think I 622 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: think I warrantined them. I think they took care of me. 623 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: But I had a brand new pair of high dollar 624 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: boots and I dried them out next to a wood 625 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: stove and basically the glue on the toe cap just 626 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: totally melted and collapsed in the boots. I don't know 627 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: where at least two sizes smaller than before I dried 628 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: them out, and I literally couldn't even wear them. And 629 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: luckily the company h took my mistake uh in their 630 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: budget and they were cool and hooked me up. But anyways, yeah, 631 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: don't do that. Um what else is it gonna say about? 632 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was gonna ask you, what about those 633 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: like the inverted Pete's dryer type things that you plug in. 634 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: They don't really have a fan in them, but they 635 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: just sort of slowly circulate air, you know what I'm 636 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: talking about for drying boots, I think. So. I think 637 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: we have a pair here and my husband dirt bikes 638 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: and we use it for drying out like his dirt 639 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: biking boots. But it's it's on the inside as opposed 640 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: to the outside. So that's I think that's a better 641 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: solution really, because the inside can harbor a lot of 642 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: moisture uh in where you don't want it to be. Um. 643 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: So I think by drying from the inside, it's probably 644 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: a better choice because you're not applying heat directly to 645 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: the outer material, and those tend to be a kind 646 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 1: of a gentler, more of a blowing sort of dryer 647 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: and not like a again like a radiator or would stove, 648 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: so it's going to be more uh more of a 649 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: mellow heat that way, got it? Okay, So how do 650 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: you clean dirty boots? Yeah? So I always make sure 651 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: if they're like super muddy, you know, super self explant right, hope, 652 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, bang them off off outdoors, brush them off 653 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: outdoors first. Um. Usually when you're cleaning boots, you're gonna 654 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: be doing it in your sink. Um. If you can 655 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: do it outside over a bin, that's great too, um, 656 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: but try to get as much dirt off before you 657 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: start cleaning, if possible. Get even you know, you can 658 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: use like a a pick or a brush to get 659 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: it out of the soles too, just so you're not 660 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: muddying up your cleaning water or your sink. Um. With 661 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: cleaning all types of footwear. Um, we talked about technical 662 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,439 Speaker 1: cleaners with rain jackets and down jackets and sleeping bags 663 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: and all those things. If you want your footwear to 664 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: have a functional water repellent coating, so again we're talking 665 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,760 Speaker 1: about waterproof, breathable footwear, you should be using a technical 666 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: cleaner on your footwear. So there's a bunch available in 667 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: the market. We make product called footwear cleaning gel. It 668 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: has comes a little scrubber brush attached to it. You 669 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 1: just basically get your boot wet. You scrub all over 670 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: the boot, getting all of the dirt and stuff off 671 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: of it, and then give it a rinse. I like 672 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: to take the laces out of any boots first because 673 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: sometimes a lot of dirt will collect in the tongue, 674 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: especially if you have like a gustted tongue on your boot. 675 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 1: So just making sure you get all the different spots 676 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: your boots clean, to make sure to break down prematurely 677 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: in a sneaky spot that you missed. Um. Yeah, and 678 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: then let him air drying naturally. Um. And that's it's 679 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: pretty straightforward. I like to stuff the insides with like 680 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: some paper towel or you know, if you're feeling environmentally friendly, 681 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: you could use a couple of rags just to help 682 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,479 Speaker 1: pull any moisture that may have gotten in there during 683 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: the cleaning process out more quickly. Okay, So when I 684 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: come home, I thought you would be impressed about my 685 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: little boot cleaning kit, But I don't have actual soap. 686 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 1: I just have a brush. I just brush in water. 687 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 1: But you're saying I should add a some kind of 688 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: a cleaning agent to probably get the dirt that I 689 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: can't see off of my leather. Yeah, it's gonna be 690 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: kind of like again like the Raine jackets. But if 691 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: you're especially if you're noticing that your boots aren't repelling 692 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: water effectively anymore, that's really when you're going to use 693 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: the cleaner. I mean, sometimes we all just want our 694 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: boots to you know, not be dirty from time to time. 695 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a batch of honor and I get that too, 696 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: but uh, look at how dirty my boots are. Um, 697 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: it's sometimes I'll just do a little quick cleaning without 698 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: the without the soap, just to make them look a 699 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: little stiffy. But the soap is really key to maintain 700 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: that water appellant finish on the outside. Okay, so the 701 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: soap is not only cleaning, it's also adding uh water repellency. No, 702 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: it's just removing any residues they're a little bit more 703 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: stubborn that just water isn't gonna get off. So if 704 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: there's any oils or stubborn dirts, it's going to remove 705 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: those so that the water pellant coating can work the 706 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: way it's intended to do. Got it. Okay, Well, now 707 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: my boots have been wet and dried and wet and 708 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: dried so much that they're they just they don't have 709 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: that nice sheen of a nice oiled boot anymore. So 710 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: how do you get them back in action? Yeah, you 711 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: rewaterproof them. Um. And there for leather, there's a ton 712 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: of products out there on the market, and everyone has 713 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,360 Speaker 1: their own preference about what products to use. UM. We 714 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: make a product called waterproofing wax for leather that's great 715 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: for all sorts of full grained leather boots and gloves, UM. 716 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: And it maintains the tanning agents of the boot so 717 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: that they don't dry out, but it doesn't oversoften. So 718 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: some products on the market add great water paltsy, but 719 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: they will soften the leather over time. UM. Other products 720 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: the people really love, which again that's totally cool if 721 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: that's what you're into, but do contain a lot of 722 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: animal products, which there's nothing wrong with that, especially with 723 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: this audience. But what it can do is it can 724 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: lead to um mildew UM as well as well. And 725 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: this is a kind of an extreme situation, but I've 726 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: had this happen where I left an item out, you know, 727 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: in the gear barn. And if you put products that 728 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: contain animal products on items, occasionally small creator creatures creatures 729 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: can get an and nibble on them because it tastes tasty. 730 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: So really depends on what you want to use. Um, 731 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not gonna preach too much more about 732 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: one being better than the other. But the important thing 733 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: is you're gonna use something that, like you said, really 734 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: maintains the the suppleness of the leather so they don't 735 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: prematurely dry and crack um we do. There are other 736 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: waterproofing products for all types of footwear as well, So 737 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,479 Speaker 1: even if your boots aren't made out of leather, which 738 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: less and less boots are, it's more of like a 739 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: fabric and leather combination or in all fabric. There are 740 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: products out there that will add water appillency back to 741 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 1: those types of footwear as well, so that your boot 742 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: can be nice and breathable. Got it. So a lot 743 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: of these products are like what you see. You know, 744 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 1: if you go to a certain boot manufacturer, they'll often 745 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: try to sell you like just a little uh like 746 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: like a little can of cream that's just like they 747 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: call it, like trying to think. Usually it's not like 748 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: a waterproof They don't sell it as a waterproofing deal. 749 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: It's just a conditioner, and that's basically the same thing 750 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: you're talking about right there is. Yeah. So conditioners are 751 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: great for preventing your leather boots from drying out and cracking. 752 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: The challenge of overusing conditioners is they can soften over 753 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: soften the leather of your boot, which can compromise the support. 754 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,320 Speaker 1: So it's important to keep them waterproof because if a 755 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: boot is wet all the time and then dries and 756 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: wet and dries like we talked about, it will prematurely 757 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: dry out. So by keeping it nice and waterproof, it 758 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: will help protect the boot. So i'd always recommend a waterproofer, 759 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: using a waterproofer more often. Conditioning is great for if 760 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,320 Speaker 1: you're breaking in a boot, or if you have a 761 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: boot that's kind of a little bit old and tired 762 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,439 Speaker 1: and starting to get a little bit dry looking, then 763 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 1: a conditioner is going to like revitalize it a bit more. 764 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 1: But otherwise i'd stick to a straight waterproofer so you 765 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: don't over soften the leather and make your boots all floppy. 766 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: Got you? Okay, Um, what about some of these organic ingredients, 767 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: like folks talking about just usually regular fat, which basically 768 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: gets into talking about I mean the animal products that 769 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 1: you just talked about and how they can be bad um. 770 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: And then these wax as well. Yeah, different, there's different 771 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: types of products on the market. Sometimes if it's something 772 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: that's two wax based, it just it is more of 773 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: a straight coding, which can compromise the breathability of an item. Um. 774 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: And we talked about the challenge with fats and things 775 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: again makes them attractive to be nibbled on, they can 776 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: get rancid um. And then I'd always well, depends on 777 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: how you treat your boots. Some people wear their boots 778 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: out the where all the souls out long before they 779 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: wear out the uppers, And if that's kind of more 780 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: your style, I would always check with a cobbler about 781 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: what products to use, because there are certain waterproofing products 782 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: on the market that make it so you can't resol 783 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: certain types of boots. So if you're the sort of 784 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: person that's hard on the soles of your boots, but 785 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: like really do a good job preserving the uppers, and 786 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: you want to get your boots resold, which is a 787 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: great thing to do because it makes them last a 788 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: lot longer, and you know the tops are already broken in. 789 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: I would check with a cobbler because they're going to 790 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: have great um insight as to what products to use 791 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: so that you don't make it so you can't resole 792 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: your boots. Got you Okay? And uh, next up, like 793 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: still keeping on the boots train, We've been talking about 794 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: leather boots mostly, but what about synthetic boots. Yeah, so 795 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,360 Speaker 1: as long as it's something that's still designed to be 796 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: UM breathable, you're gonna want to maintain the dw R 797 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: coding on the outside the same way. UM. So there 798 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: are products that exist on the market to do that. 799 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 1: You still want to clean it first, um, and then 800 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: you can use a spray on waterproofer. We make a 801 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: product called Fabric and Leather Proof, which is great for 802 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: all types of fabric, synthetic cotton, and then a fabric 803 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,359 Speaker 1: and leather combination UM, and that will just again add 804 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: that water pellency back to the outside of the boot 805 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: so it can breathe from the inside out perfect. Well. Uh, 806 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,320 Speaker 1: I think we went through that pretty good. We always 807 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: like to to in the ending of our podcast give 808 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: listeners like some really good, hard like hot tips that 809 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,680 Speaker 1: they can take away from this. Um, is there any 810 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 1: like really hot tips for gearcare that you can give 811 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: listeners as a takeaway? Yeah, I mean hot tips. I 812 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: love it. UM, So a couple of ones. One maybe 813 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: is really obvious, but always put your gear away clean. Like, 814 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: never put your gear away dirty if you can avoid it. UM. 815 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: A lot of times if you put especially jackets or 816 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,920 Speaker 1: anything that touches your skin where you've sweat into it, 817 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: if you put it away dirty, all of your sweat 818 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,399 Speaker 1: and body oils will actually attract bacteria to your gear, 819 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: and that bacteria can prematurely break down uh the interior 820 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: the linings of your jacket, and that can cause delamination 821 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,840 Speaker 1: a lot faster, which is not what you want. So 822 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: put your gear away clean, everybody super important. UM. The 823 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,240 Speaker 1: second my second hot tip which I try to tell everyone, 824 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,840 Speaker 1: and I try I tell myself even though sometimes I forget. 825 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: Always check the pockets of your gear before you clean it, 826 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: so you're not chucking your you know, gortex jacket in 827 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,479 Speaker 1: the washing machine with a two chapstick and a half 828 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: eaten uh cliff bar, you causing mayhem and your washing machine. UM. 829 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: Check the pockets. The same thing with putting away again 830 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,520 Speaker 1: backpacks and things. Check the pockets. I once, and I'm 831 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,440 Speaker 1: sorry I'm throwing cliff bar under the bus here, but 832 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: I left one in the side pocket of my backpacking 833 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: backpack and it absolutely gotten eaten, gut eaten, chewed up 834 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,840 Speaker 1: the whole egg because it tasted delicious, some little creature. 835 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: So check the pockets. Number one tip perfect well. Thanks 836 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,720 Speaker 1: thanks again for hopping on. Really enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, 837 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,800 Speaker 1: thank you, thanks for having me, thanks for listening to 838 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: all my tips, and uh, if you all have any questions, 839 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 1: of course I'm available and happy to chat more.