WEBVTT - #450 Lauren Bright Pacheco with Michelle Morrison 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.760 Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.680 been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.959 even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.720 to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.000 like to be their ally, the one outside committed to 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.680 fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Bride Pacheco, and this 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:37.920 is wrongful conviction. Welcome to wrongful conviction. In two thousand 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.320 and nine, Michelle Morrison was convicted on a felony murder 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.400 charge along with aggravated assault, criminal attempt to commit armed robbery, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.280 and conspiracy over a two thousand and seven shooting that 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.320 left a man dead. Now, what if I told you 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.760 that not only did Michelle not fire the weapon that 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.960 took the man's life, but she never even set foot 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.120 in the house where the shoe occurred. In fact, she 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.920 didn't even get out of the car. And yet Michelle Morrison, 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.000 at the age of twenty six, was sentenced to life 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.640 in prison plus five years. Her mother, Cynthia Holland, has 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.640 fought fiercely for her daughter's release, which finally occurred in 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.640 August of twenty twenty two, but only after Michelle spent 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.759 nearly thirteen years behind bars for a murder she did 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.920 not commit. Cynthia truly moved mountains to get her daughter 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.320 out of prison and in the process brought about real 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:38.280 reform in the Georgia justice system. And we'll get into 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:43.840 exactly how she went about that, but first, Michelle Morrison 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.320 and Cynthia Holland, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.800 Thank you, Lauren Hi, thank you for having. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:54.560 Us wonderful listen. Before we get into the event that 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.320 left you in prison for thirteen years, I just want 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.960 to find out a little bit more about you, Mischae 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.600 as a person, your upbringing, where you grew up, what 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.480 kind of a child you were, and your mom's here 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.960 to keep you on us. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:08.760 Well. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.080 I grew up in Atlanta. My mom and dad were 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.079 married till I was five. I had a lot of energy. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.679 I was more like a tomboy. I loved to hang 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.919 out with my uncle Joey. That was like my big brother. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.399 I would ride a scooter, be in the trees, be everywhere. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.480 I just I was real active. I had a lot 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:28.040 of energy. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.840 In school, I was a happy kid. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.560 What made you happy? What was your favorite music? What 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:34.600 were your favorite things to do. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:41.440 Ooh, my favorite music Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson and my 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.840 favorite thing. When I became I was like, how old 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.280 was I when I was in Girl Scouts? I think 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.480 I was in the fourth or fifth grade. But that 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.560 was my favorite thing. My mom was the leader and 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:56.720 I got to do everything. It was like I was 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.240 the mini leader because she was in charge. So I 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.200 had We went to the zoo to spend the night. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.600 We went, we had sleepovers. It was fun selling cookies. Yeah, 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:06.480 that was really fun. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.799 I'm a Samoa girl and nuts. 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:12.200 Yes. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:17.480 So by your teens, from being a Girl Scout, you 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.160 kind of took a bit of a different path and 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.240 some of the decisions that you were making at the 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.160 time might have put you at odds with your mom. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.320 Well, the area that we was in, I really didn't 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:29.280 care for my school. 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.480 I just didn't like my school. It wasn't really productive. 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.760 I had friends that went to some of the better schools, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.119 but I couldn't go there first because I didn't stay 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:40.840 in the area. I didn't have the address, and then 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.000 my mom couldn't take me there because it was far. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.520 So I kind of just didn't like school at all. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.640 I'd be the person that to get finished with my 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.640 work and disrupt everybody in class then get in trouble. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.440 I started kind of like falling back from school till 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.200 eventually I dropped out of school and I started hanging 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.960 out with some kids that one of the best kids 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.840 in the world, But you know, I started hanging out 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.240 with them because I thought they were cool. 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.360 Was that difficult for you, Cynthia, I mean, having been 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.560 the girls Scout leader to kind of having a rebellious 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:15.920 daughter on your hands. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.040 Yeah, needless to say, it was. But I had two daughters, 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.920 and it's amazing how you can have two children and 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.120 they can grow up exactly the same and then go 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.719 in different directions. So on one hand, I had one daughter 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.600 that was doing everything in school and loved school, and 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.120 the other hand, another daughter that was rebelling and was 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.440 just kind of going through that teenage stuff. A lot 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.520 of it was because we didn't have a lot of 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.479 the resources back then to help. When you're being a 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.560 single parent trying to raise two children, trying to work 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.040 and everything, it was tough. It was tough. 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.400 What was the age difference? The age difference between you 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:59.160 and your sister. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.919 Michelle years she's older than me. 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.760 You know, sometimes it's it's easier to go the opposite 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.440 direction of an older sibling, particularly if they're hitting all 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:14.360 the high notes. It's a little easier to not follow 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.200 in their steps sometimes. How old were you when your 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:18.160 parents got divorced. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.920 I was five, and that took That took a toll 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.880 on me because I was a daddy's girl and we. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.160 Were super close, super close. 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.640 So when they did get divorced, you know, I understand 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.800 what was going on. He moved to another state and 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.559 I had to wait till summer breaks or Christmas breaks 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:35.640 to see him. 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.560 So, yeah, they're right there. You know, that hurt me 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.200 real bad. You know, I wanted my dad. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.279 So by the time you got your teens or obviously 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.600 have different priorities than your older sister and a bit 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.239 at odds with your mom. But what were your goals, 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:52.920 your thoughts about the future. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.760 I wanted to I always wanted to work in a 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.080 medical field from when I was young. It went from 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.839 a brain surgeon to a heart surgeon. So when I 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.280 realized I'm not doing at at school, to a pediatrician. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.800 Then it went to an rin and that was the 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.200 final thing that I was going to do, but I 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.600 ended up enrolling in the CAB tech for a licensed 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:22.080 practical nurse. I went almost a year and I couldn't 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:26.280 stay focused because I was dancing in the nightclubs and 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.680 I was so tired trying to go to work and 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.520 trying to go to college. And then when I got 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.039 to math, math has always been my hertes subject and 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.160 it just was frustrating me. I already couldn't focus, so 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.240 I ended up dropping out of the cap tick. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.839 And so that takes us about to the time when 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:47.240 this unfolded. How was that time period in terms of 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:52.800 your relationship, Cynthia, were you guys strained before this happened. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.800 I was a little disappointed about the things that she 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.880 was doing. I even remember in my Bible study group 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.719 we were giving prayer request and I mentioned pray for 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.440 my daughter because she grew up in the church. She 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.200 was acculate, she loved the church, and now she's taken 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.600 another path. And I remember the pastor telling me, don't 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.480 get so down because you're feeling like you're a bad 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.280 mother and it's not because of that, and he tried 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.480 to encourage me, and I was able to release it, 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:27.040 and I begin to say well, God, this is your child. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.160 What are you going to do with her? I just prayed. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.000 And my grandmother, who bless her so has gone on 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.960 to heaven. She would say, She'll probably be the one 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.280 to surprise you, because when she was young, she would 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.280 just do things and say things that were just amazing. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.800 So I knew it was inside of her, and I 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.360 think that's why all of this adversity hit her like 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.400 it did, and she went through that to become who 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:52.280 she is now. 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:58.040 Absolutely, And in terms of that adversity before this incident, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:02.720 had you had any substantial runnings with the law. 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:09.200 Well, I had got on probation and end up going 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.760 to juvenile for not going to school. As my I 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.160 guess my punishment, they sent me to a wolderness camp 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.360 where I had to go for I think it was 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.920 six weeks where I had to go stay out into 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.400 the woods and it was so horrible and I remember 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:26.840 getting bait up by jiggers. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.080 Oh it was. It was terrible. It was terrible. 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.280 And I told my mom, I said, oh, I'm not 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:32.840 I'm going to school. I'm not going to do this 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.200 no more. Like my mom was like okay, okay, okay. 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.280 I was like I'm not gonna do it no more. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.200 So that's what happened. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.960 Then, in retrospect, those bug bites probably didn't seem as 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.560 bad as what ended up happening. So take me to 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:53.080 the night of June eleventh, two thousand and seven, when 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.840 all of this went down. Seems almost like a series 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:58.880 of bad decisions that snowballed. 0:08:59.400 --> 0:08:59.679 Well. 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:05.560 So, while I was dancing, I did abuse pills. I 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.200 had a pill habit. They make you hang around people 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.320 that you think are your friends, and really the whole 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.840 time they're not your friends. It's the worst thing ever 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:17.000 in the world. But I had a friend that I've 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.680 been knowing for years, and she sold drugs and she 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:25.480 had an escort service. We've been friends, probably before I 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.880 start dancing. We were friends and we were cool, like 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.240 she never owned the vehicle. I always give her rides 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.920 to places or let her borrow my car. On this 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.200 particular night, she asked me for a ride to pick 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.880 up some money that was old to her. She wanted 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.560 the two guys to go with her because the guy 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.160 was dodging her phone calls and he owed her money 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:45.120 and she needed her money. 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.120 And I drove her there. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.440 She used my phone acting like her phone was dead 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.040 the whole time. I drove my car with my driver 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.200 license plates retro to my name. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:56.839 Everything is to my name. 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:58.679 I mean, if I was going to commit a crime, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.480 I would never let her use my my phone and 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.800 traced me. I would have never drove my car to 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.480 register straight back to my house. But once again, when 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.240 you're on heavy pills, none of that matters. You're not 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.000 even really paying attention what's going on in the car. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.160 You're just driving. So the two guys get out the 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.960 car and I guess they go in. Me and her 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.360 talking the whole time. After they've been out for a second, 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.680 one of the other guys came in and got in 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.560 a car, breathing hard, you know, saying I don't know 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.400 what happened. I don't know if my boy shot this 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.360 guy or the guy shot him. And I'm looking like, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:27.319 what are you talking about? 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:27.920 Shot what? 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.800 So he's had one foot in, one foot out. I'm 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.960 dropped about to drive off, and he's like, I can't 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:34.640 leave my boy. He get out the car. I ended 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.080 up leaving because I didn't even know the man was dead. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:37.840 I didn't know nothing. 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.719 How did you find that out? The next day? 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:43.840 So when I was going to go pick up my 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.840 contacts from the eyeglass place, the GBI pulled me over 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.400 and said they wanted to talk to me. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.720 So that's when you first realized that you were caught 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:59.120 up in all of us, that you were now part 0:10:59.120 --> 0:10:59.960 of the investigation. 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:02.800 It took me to the police station and they had 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:04.720 me and my friend up there for a few hours. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.600 They impounded my car and they let us go. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.560 And when did you loop your mom that all of 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.839 this was unfolding. 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.920 Actually, I didn't find out for quite some time because 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.800 my father, who was living in Alabama, was killed in 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.440 a car accident on June seventh, two thousand and nine. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.880 So I was preparing a funeral, driving back and forth 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.880 to Huntsville, trying to secure his belongings and stuff. So 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.160 I was wondering why when Michelle came to the funeral, 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.440 she didn't have a vehicle, and she just told me 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.160 that it was in the shop or something. I still 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:48.920 didn't know until they actually knocked on my door, the 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:53.240 GBI and said that they were looking for her about 0:11:53.240 --> 0:12:02.000 a homicide, and my heart just fell out. And the 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.240 GBI can remember him, you know, he was very calm, 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.800 He was very nice about it. He didn't believe that 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.080 she was guilty of it, he assured me, because I 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.920 was like in tears. He said, if you know where 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.240 she is, just tell her to turn herself in. And 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.920 I immediately called her, and that's what we did. I said, 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.640 get it straightened out, but we're not gonna run or 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:23.480 disregard this. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.720 So you turned yourself in willingly. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:45.240 Yeah. 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.880 It was right after the incident, and I was like, yeah, 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.240 I'm gonna do the right thing. I don't have no 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:49.920 reason to run. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.960 What was that time period like for you, from the 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.280 time you got the knock on the door of Cynthia. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.600 Did you think that it was just a formality and 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.080 you'd go in, get questioned and leave. 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.200 No. I thought it was serious. Matter of fact, I 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.120 begin to make in preparations. I went to a bondsman 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.959 to try to prepare for bail. I got things set up. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.160 They told me that with those types of charges that 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.240 it would probably be serious and a very high bail. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.560 I mean, I was scrambling trying to make sure that 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.120 I could try to not let her go to that 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.000 awful jail. All the things I saw on TV and 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.800 going people going to jail and getting killed. I mean, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:36.839 all kinds of things was running through my head. 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.720 And so Michelle, what was going through your head when 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.520 you walked in to turn yourself in? 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:48.440 Well, I was so afraid. I was so afraid. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:50.920 And I sat there for about a week inside of 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.199 the county jail till I got my bond here, and 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.400 I was scared. I had the same perception of prison 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.280 that my mama did, Like I couldn't imagine my self 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:05.520 in there for five minutes, let alone thirteen years. So 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.440 I was nervous. But thankfully God had me with a 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.679 good bunkie because we were praying together and stuff. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.160 How did the detectives treat you initially off the bat? 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.960 Did you have a lawyer when you were first interrogated? 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:27.800 Nope, And I can honestly say the GBI were very, very, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:29.880 very nice to me. They were trying to help me out, 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.080 like they wanted me to help them. They wanted my 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.480 co defend. But I didn't know where she was. She ran, 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.160 she was on a run. I couldn't help you find 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.120 her because she was running for me too. I don't 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:39.720 know where she was. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.880 So yeah, I think there was even an America's Most 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:43.040 Wanted episode about her. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.440 Yeah it was. 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.440 And when we went to court for her bond hearing, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.560 I brought members from my church. We had three rows 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.440 of people that stood up for her, and the judge 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.640 ended up giving her a bond of one thousand dollars cash. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.320 When I called back the bond's company and said, sir, 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.680 I don't need you. My daughter just got one thousand 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.800 dollar cash bond and I can pay that, he said, lady, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.320 you're crazy. Nobody gets it. I said, I'm telling you, 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.080 that's what the judge says. My daughter's walking out. And 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.160 she walked for two years. There was no evidence. The 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.560 GBI said that they were astonished that they she was 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.200 even indicted because there was no physical evidence against her. 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:27.080 So those two years must have been kind of like 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:32.720 having raincloud following you because you're still not in the clearer. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.880 And so when did the plea deal first come on 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.760 the table? What were you offered and who offered it? 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.560 I was offered five years, and that came from the 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:50.920 DA at the time. I was offered five years to 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.400 turn state on the other two guys that were there. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:56.920 So I had two lawyers. 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.000 I had the lawyer that I hired that I kind 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.040 of knew, so I kind of trusted him more. And 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.000 then he hired on another lawyer as a partner, so 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.640 it was like I had doctor Jeko on Hide. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.520 The lawyer I hired, he was like, we're gonna fight. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:11.280 You're gonna win this. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.040 La la la la. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.200 The lawyer that I didn't hire, he was like, I 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.600 was a prosecutor before. Take no five years. We know 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:18.920 you didn't do nothing, but you was there at the 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.280 scene of the crime. This is Georgia. Their laws are crazy. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.240 So I'm having these two people in my head at 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.040 this time, and I'm like, oh my god, I don't 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.520 know Georgia laws. I ain't never been no serious trouble 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.440 like this. So I'm like, I'm finna fight for my life. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.640 That's all I seen, That's all I can see. I'm 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:33.160 finna fight. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.960 Well, I can imagine if you got a thousand dollars bond, 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:42.240 you probably felt that roll the dice. You're innocent, you 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.280 didn't do it, So why would you take five years 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.880 and testify against people when you weren't at the scene 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:51.480 of the murder. 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.400 Well, I, like Michelle, did not understand the system. I 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.920 wasn't clear when they said five years would she be 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.880 saying five years to murder, and. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.359 It seems like, Michelle, you were getting really conflicting legal 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.920 advice heading into that trial too. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:10.280 I wasn't. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.439 Also, I had just enrolled into Georgia Perimeter for the 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.160 summer course. I was going to start the RIN program. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.040 So in my mind, I didn't know they was going 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:19.760 to drop my charge to a list of charge. They 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.040 did not explain the five years. I'm thinking, I'm still 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.720 gonna have this murder charge. I'm like, I ain't gonna 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.719 be getting to college with his murder charge. These are 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.679 the thoughts going in my head. So I'm like, I'm 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.320 trying to go back to school and do the right thing. 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.520 I'm like, oh god, oh no, no, no, no, So 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:33.120 I didn't I didn't understand it. 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.080 But that said, by the time you're heading into trial, 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.240 you're making steps to get your life back into order 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.760 and take me to the trial. What did it feel 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.879 like sitting in that courtroom and how did you feel 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.840 things were going for you? Michelle? 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.520 Oh, well, I can remember. I remember bits and pieces 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.080 of it. Being so scared. I still was abusing appeals. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.240 I wasn't really in my right mind. I just wanted 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:01.760 to be numb. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.960 I'm so scared. I really didn't want to be there. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.880 So the whole time, I'm just listening to the case, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.639 and I'm listening to all the evidence against my co defendents, 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.639 listening to their extensive criminal history, and it felt weird, 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.639 like I didn't belong there. I just felt crazy the 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:20.440 whole time. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.680 And it's two years after any event happened, and so 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:31.040 it's April of twenty oh nine, Cynthia. Were you there 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:32.680 during the trials? 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:34.600 I was there every day. Me and one of my 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.959 prayer partners sat there in the courtroom, listened to all 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.560 the testimony. And that's why it was so devastating, because 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.159 the testimony never really had anything solid, and you think 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.639 for somebody to get a life sentence, you would have 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.760 to have a little bit more concrete evidence. Plus there 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.480 were several times that I ran into the judge shopping 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.440 at the grocery store, and one time he was right 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.040 in front of me in the line and he says, 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.560 aren't you the mother of the girl that's on trial? 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.000 And I said, yes, tell her to take the plea deal. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.520 Tell her to take the plea deal. And I got 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.160 nervous because I didn't think judges were supposed to talk 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.800 to you about that, and it really made me nervous 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.919 more now about the plea deal, and I was like, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.440 are they trying to set us up? Or what I mean? 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.840 So many things kept going through my mind because I 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:24.840 was so unsure. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.480 Wow, and he was giving you a heads up because 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.560 I don't even think that could have prepared you guys 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.960 for the verdict. So take me to the exact moment 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.200 that the verdict is delivered, Michelle. 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:44.840 Oh, well, they delivered my co defense verdict first, and. 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.840 I was like, oh god, they said guilty. 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.440 So then when they came back to mine and said guilty, 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.639 I felt like I felt like I've been stabbed, and 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.359 it's just I was shocked. I didn't know what to do, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.840 what to say, and the judge looked at me and 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.560 he was like, I tried to tell this young lady, 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.360 you know he please file your appeals like you can 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.560 tell everybody felt so bad. I remember a lady in 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.639 the jury. She was crying. I guess they didn't realize. 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:18.080 I don't even know if the jury was told I 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.199 was offered five years because they said it. After I 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.639 got the verdict came down, I was offered five years. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:29.080 So yeah, I was in total shock and disbelief. I 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.080 I didn't even understand what was going on, total disbelief. 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:35.080 Were you sentenced right there? 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.680 And then yeah? So it was right there and then 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:39.160 life plus five years. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.160 Yes he said life plus five, but I'm gonna suspend 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.680 the five but still life in Georgia. At the time, 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.440 she was convicted as a minimum of thirty years. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:53.760 That's a long time, so thirty before parole, right. 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:55.280 Before they even look at you. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:01.960