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Speaker 1: Trust me. Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've

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Speaker 1: never lied to your friend.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 2: Don't Welcome to trust Being the podcast about Colts, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and the abuse of power from two Phillies who've

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Speaker 2: actually lived it. Megan tells me this is a real word.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lola Blanc.

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Speaker 3: I'm Megan Elizabeth, and phillies is a very real word.

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Speaker 2: I have never heard it in my life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like from the twenties, like people are

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Speaker 3: like doo, that's me whistling like you're a Philly. Feels

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Speaker 3: like an insult. It was in Disney movies. I think

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Speaker 3: it was in Mary Poppins.

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Speaker 2: There are lots of things in Disney movies that were

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Speaker 2: pretty problematic.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good point.

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Speaker 2: Today we are talking to Will Allen. He was in

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Speaker 2: a new age group in the eighties called the Buddha Field,

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Speaker 2: and he made a documentary called Holy Hell about his experiences,

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Speaker 2: using actual footage from the group because he was filming

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Speaker 2: everything at the time.

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Speaker 3: He's going to tell us about his experiences following the leader, Michelle,

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Speaker 3: down a path that seemed fun and free with all

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Speaker 3: these young Los Angeles actors and dancers. But then it

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Speaker 3: takes a little turn for the sinister.

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Speaker 2: Which tends to all tend to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Michelle treated all the Phillies really badly. We get

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Speaker 3: into that later.

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Speaker 2: He didn't like women, and he was especially bad in

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Speaker 2: a very different way toward the men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: So that's our trigger warning, I think, right, Yes, there.

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Speaker 2: Will be some descriptions of sexual assault. So if you're

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Speaker 2: not comfortable with that, just a heads up. But first,

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Speaker 2: bad transition. But first, Megan, Yes, Lola, tell me the

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Speaker 2: cultiest thing that happened to you this week, please.

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Speaker 3: Well, mine's very unfortunate. It's one of the worst cults

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Speaker 3: I've ever been involved in. And it was a boot

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Speaker 3: camp class that I took. Ooh yeah, I decided to

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Speaker 3: do some New Year's exercise that maybe was a little

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Speaker 3: bit you know, harder. Holy shit, these people are out

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Speaker 3: of their minds. They have the blankest look in their eyes.

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Speaker 3: They're pushing their bodies so extreme, and it's just expected

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Speaker 3: that you're gonna throw up in the class. I think

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Speaker 3: that's weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why did you do that? I didn't know

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Speaker 2: it was going to be so hard. You weren't like

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Speaker 2: I need to destroy my body.

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Speaker 3: No, I was like, I just want to try a

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Speaker 3: different type of exercise, okay, you know. And it wasn't

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Speaker 3: labeled boot camp, but it was a boot camp once

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Speaker 3: I got there.

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Speaker 2: Like, what'd you do?

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Speaker 3: Jumping jacks till I was blue in the face? Lifting

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Speaker 3: such heavy weight squats, running just ridiculousness.

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Speaker 2: I'm not, like my nightmare.

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Speaker 3: I am not suited for this life, so nor am I.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: So, what was the cultiest thing that happened to you?

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Speaker 3: Hopefully it was more relaxing than me.

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Speaker 2: It actually was. It's the culty thing that I do

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Speaker 2: every week. It's not CULTI, but it's the cultiest thing

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Speaker 2: I've I have become a member of the cult of

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Speaker 2: believing in therapy. Mmm, I'm becoming a person who, in

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Speaker 2: every conversation about emotions or basically anything, I'll be like, well,

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Speaker 2: my therapist says, okay, totally that person. Now I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, in therapy, we do this exercise or we

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Speaker 2: talk about this thing, the importance of this, and I'm

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Speaker 2: becoming a parrot. I am like becoming a like a

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Speaker 2: robot person who thinks that her therapist has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: and her therapy is the way. And I know that

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Speaker 2: there are many ways to view the world and many

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Speaker 2: lenses through which to look at things, but it just

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Speaker 2: happens to be the thing that works for me, so

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Speaker 2: of course I apply it to everybody else.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's some culty, lola, I know.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I know, but I'm aware of it. Okay, feelings,

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Speaker 2: the fucking childhood shit coming up later. You gotta process it,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: You have to process. It's the emotions, it's the style,

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Speaker 3: it's the thing, it's our brains.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I do really believe that, though, But I don't

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Speaker 2: think that there's one way to do it, and I

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Speaker 2: don't there are many schools of thought within psychology. There

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Speaker 2: are like many different theories on things, so like I

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Speaker 2: need to be careful about being closed minded about the

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Speaker 2: particular ones that my guy practices. Yes, yes, I feel

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Speaker 2: like I need to get better at seeing the world

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Speaker 2: through other perspectives in general, don't we all? Don't we all?

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Speaker 3: I think I could use a little bit less of it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tell me more.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I just I can see everybody's point

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Speaker 3: point always where it gets hard for me to find

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Speaker 3: my own center.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Interesting. I get really strong willed about the thing

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Speaker 2: that I think and I'm like, no, this is like,

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Speaker 2: this is the way to think about it, And then

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Speaker 2: of course I question that.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, well, right, right. I just sometimes live

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Speaker 3: in the I live in the dumbness of trying to

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Speaker 3: see people's point of view, which is dumb to do

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Speaker 3: it that often because I don't even really know what

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Speaker 3: there's I'm just guessing, so it's all just coming from

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Speaker 3: my brain in the end.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, I'm yeah, I can be pretty dismissive.

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Speaker 2: I'm working on that, but it's interesting to observe in.

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Speaker 2: Like I have friends who are in various twelve step programs.

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Speaker 2: There was a period where a couple of my friends

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Speaker 2: had joined different twelve step programs and there was something

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Speaker 2: going on for me in my life that was totally

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Speaker 2: unrelated to their particular situations, but they were like, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a twelve step program for that, right, and they

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Speaker 2: kept bringing it up, and it was making me really

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable because I'm like, are there's more than one way

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Speaker 2: to deal with things. I think that's where it becomes

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Speaker 2: a problem when you're like, this is the only way

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Speaker 2: to deal with the thing, because this is the way

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Speaker 2: that I'm dealing with it. Absolutely. I do think twelve

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Speaker 2: step programs are great. I feel like I've said this before,

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Speaker 2: but you know, yes, multiple ways.

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Speaker 3: Do what works for you, Do what works for you.

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Speaker 2: The phrase it is to skin the cat. Why because

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Speaker 2: people skin and cats. You know, you gotta find the

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Speaker 2: right way to skin your cat. I just watched Don't

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Speaker 2: Fuck with Cats. Oh yeah, that was brain.

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Speaker 3: That was some scary shit.

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Speaker 2: That was some scary shit.

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Speaker 3: Watch that sh Holy hell. Actually, you guys have to

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Speaker 3: watch this documentary. I swear to god. It is really good.

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Speaker 2: It's so good. We're talking about Holy hell. Now Will's

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Speaker 2: documentary Today's guest. If that wasn't clear, I feel like

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Speaker 2: that was confusing. My mom told me about it, and

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Speaker 2: you know, when my parents because she actually knows Will,

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Speaker 2: when my parents make recommendations to me about things that

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Speaker 2: I should watch them like.

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Speaker 3: I will never do that. Yeah, thanks, got it.

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Speaker 2: But then I looked it up and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I went to Sundance. It's on Netflix. It can't be

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Speaker 2: that bad. And then I it was great. It was

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Speaker 2: totally great. Y'all should watch this interview.

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Speaker 3: I think is exceptional because he's just so in the

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Speaker 3: middle of what a call actually is and he's able

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Speaker 3: to explain it so beautifully. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Will's a special person. Yeah, let's say hello, Hi, Well,

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Speaker 2: hello hi Will. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I rented the movie on Amazon. Then I bought it,

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Speaker 3: thank you. Yeah, I had to buy it. I got it.

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Speaker 3: It's really good. I want everyone to see it. And

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Speaker 3: also I would have joined the hell out of that.

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Speaker 1: This was kind of healing at the beginning, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it would have been a beautiful experience.

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Speaker 2: Let's start from the beginning. I want to hear how

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Speaker 2: you got involved in the first place, what was appealing

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Speaker 2: to you, what it was like. You're twenty two. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're all so young and vulnerable. I am.

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Speaker 1: You know. They always say you're having some kind of

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Speaker 1: crisis and then that's your lowest point they find you,

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Speaker 1: or something like that. It seems true. I mean I

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Speaker 1: was at a at a pivotal point in my life

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Speaker 1: after college and what to do next, and you.

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Speaker 2: Came from an experience where you you were kicked out

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Speaker 2: right by your mother. Is that what happened?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny because that was controversial after the

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Speaker 1: movie came out because my mother and she's like, I

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Speaker 1: didn't kick you out. I'm like, well, mom, you know

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Speaker 1: you did. But she didn't see it like this, like

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Speaker 1: she didn't see it. But for me, she just found

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Speaker 1: out I was gay and I just got back from college,

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Speaker 1: and it was a bunch of things. She had already

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Speaker 1: talked to me, hoping I wasn't gay, and I promised

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Speaker 1: her that I didn't know, so I wouldn't do anything.

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Speaker 1: And age was around. So when she made me promise,

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Speaker 1: which of course you would say yes to your mother,

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Speaker 1: but who's gonna, you know, not have sex, so you know,

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Speaker 1: at twenty one, and so I was like okay. And

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Speaker 1: then she found out I was and I was in

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Speaker 1: her house. It was just after college, and she says,

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Speaker 1: I can't, I won't, I won't take this. You have

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Speaker 1: to go. I cannot hand you can leave, go go go.

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Speaker 1: So it was all together and I got kicked out

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Speaker 1: that one moment, and it was combined with everything just

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Speaker 1: just you didn't want to support me at that point, right,

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Speaker 1: And my sister introduced me to meditation and her teacher.

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Speaker 1: She was really excited about him. And the next day

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Speaker 1: I went to this group they kind of ushered me

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Speaker 1: into this room full of thirty people meditating, and this

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Speaker 1: teacher walks in and he was like muscular and tan

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Speaker 1: and from another country, and I was like where am i?

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Speaker 1: And it was just really fascinating. I was tired of

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Speaker 1: being raised Catholic and I was an altar boy, and

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Speaker 1: I was looking for something that was more real and honest,

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Speaker 1: and it was meditation. I mean, for me the time

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, it was really not here yet, and

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Speaker 1: meditation was like the answer that we're looking for. And

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Speaker 1: so I kind of started to meditate.

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Speaker 2: Which is such a like harmless endeavor, Like it's a

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Speaker 2: meditation is a is like a scientifically proven like positive

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Speaker 2: practice for people's lives and makes them happier. Like on

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Speaker 2: the surface, a room full of people meditating is just

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Speaker 2: like a nice thing.

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Speaker 1: When you walk into a room full of it, you

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Speaker 1: automatically kind of are contagious to it. You kind of resonate.

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Speaker 1: It's like a tuning fork, you know how they could

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Speaker 1: do a tuning fork and the other one will vibrate. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the concept. And so when there's more people together,

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Speaker 1: it's just you get more you get than when you're alone.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: That's why people tend to try to get together and

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Speaker 1: then they stay together because it's hard to do these

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Speaker 1: practices alone.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 3: That that brings something up for me because it seems

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Speaker 3: like you guys were really high on meditating a lot.

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Speaker 3: Was their drugs involved?

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Speaker 2: Was the LSD? No?

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Speaker 1: Before? Of course once we got there, No. And I

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Speaker 1: asked that question to all my friends, like, did you

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Speaker 1: do drugs before? Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah in

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Speaker 1: the group. No, never, because the teacher didn't do them.

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Speaker 1: We were not supposed to. We weren't. It wasn't about that.

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Speaker 1: It's about being sure, organic clean. We do you need

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Speaker 1: sugar mainly because it would disrupt your meditation. It would

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Speaker 1: agitate your mind. Coffee would agitate your mind.

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Speaker 2: What year is this again?

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Speaker 1: Eighty five? Eighty five and Reagan was president and it

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Speaker 1: was all the yuppies. You guys were born, but it

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Speaker 1: was all the polo shirts and pink and yuppies and money, money, money,

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Speaker 1: and the seventies had just finished, and it was so idealistic,

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Speaker 1: you know. Being raised in the seventies was all about

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Speaker 1: the sixties and the seventies. The music was beautiful, and

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Speaker 1: then then the eighties came and it's different and we

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Speaker 1: were trying to get more connected. I was trying to

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Speaker 1: get more connected, back to celebration of love and life.

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Speaker 2: Right, So what did you move in? Like?

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Speaker 3: What was in one?

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Speaker 2: Are the next steps?

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Speaker 1: Well? He was really smart and it wasn't like a

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Speaker 1: compound where there are like thirty people living in a building.

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Speaker 1: Everyone had small homes in West Hollywood, like maybe four

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Speaker 1: bedroom or five bedroom house, and we would all split

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Speaker 1: the rent. He wanted us to keep our rent down

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Speaker 1: so we weren't stressed out. You know, we didn't have

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Speaker 1: high car payments. Everything was very low, so we'd get

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Speaker 1: be very close to nature and not be so caught

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Speaker 1: up in the world. So I lived with my sister

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend and like three other four other people,

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Speaker 1: and houses would come up, and the more people would come,

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Speaker 1: he'd say, well, you five people move into get that

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Speaker 1: house together. Oh interesting, you four go over into that

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Speaker 1: house together. He would design all of it because he

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Speaker 1: was the omniscient.

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Speaker 3: And when we say it's a man named Michelle, he was.

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Speaker 3: He's from where he was.

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Speaker 1: From, venezuel He's quite fascinating. I must say. Oh, but

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Speaker 1: even now I'm looking back on all of it. That

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Speaker 1: was what the impression and the imprint I had early

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Speaker 1: on and why it was so interesting. But he was

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Speaker 1: from Venezuela. He came over here to be an actor.

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Speaker 1: He wore makeup like eyeliner. He was a dancer and actor.

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Speaker 1: He'd gone through all these different stages where now he

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Speaker 1: was an acting coach right because he couldn't make a

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Speaker 1: living acting, And then he became a hypno therapist, and

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Speaker 1: then after hypnotherapy he kind of discovered spirituality, had a teacher,

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Speaker 1: and then he wanted to be a teacher. So I

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Speaker 1: would always look at that, going, well, here's this guy

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Speaker 1: who wanted to be a star. Didn't happen. If you

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Speaker 1: are a narcissistant and you do need that kind of

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Speaker 1: attention or else a, you're going to get it. If

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Speaker 1: not from an audience, you're going to get it from

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Speaker 1: a group of spiritual followers. So he ended up, you know, karmically,

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Speaker 1: just with all of us adoring him and following him,

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Speaker 1: and he was he had a broken accent. We found

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Speaker 1: it all very charming.

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Speaker 3: He wore speedo.

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Speaker 1: He wore speed over right, but shut up a lot

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Speaker 1: in the film because I pulled the camera out when

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Speaker 1: we were doing stuff like that. He didn't always wear

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Speaker 1: speed were clothes.

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Speaker 3: He were always in the feeding.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was tanning. He was a tan god, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of that comes from his I think Venezuelan background.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're all about beauty.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing how many of these guys wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a star and failed at that endeavor. So they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I guess I'll start a cult now. That's like the

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Speaker 2: only alternative for them.

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Speaker 3: Do you think they even consciously have that thought process

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Speaker 3: or they're just like, I am a I am a healer.

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Speaker 1: I think it evolved and I used to give him

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Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt. Later when I was making

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Speaker 1: the film, I didn't come to a conclusion that was

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Speaker 1: this premeditated? Was it all a joke? Did he fake it?

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Speaker 1: You know? I didn't try to say that because I

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Speaker 1: couldn't figure it out until I got to Sundance. Our

295
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Speaker 1: film was in Sundance and competition and all my friends

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Speaker 1: from the group came, and one of them had been

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Speaker 1: there was the very first guy whoever came. He was

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Speaker 1: like seventeen, and he knew him in Florida before he

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Speaker 1: had followers.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, and he.

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Speaker 1: Said to me, he goes will I remember when he

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Speaker 1: said to me, I want to have followers. I want followers,

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Speaker 1: and I go. He said that to you, I go.

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Speaker 1: If I had known that when I was, like, before

305
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Speaker 1: I had made the film, I would have I think

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Speaker 1: I would have used that a little, right, because that

307
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Speaker 1: is intention. Because he had been listening to other spiritual teachers.

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Speaker 1: Let's say it was the eighties, right early eighties, and

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Speaker 1: he'd been listening to OH Show. He was really big

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Speaker 1: raj niche, and he wanted that. He wanted to be that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it was because he wanted to

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Speaker 1: help people or if you wanted to right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like you can't really cultivate a

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Speaker 2: group like that if you don't want followers, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't happen by accident, especially with the level of

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Speaker 2: the control that he had over everybody, Like that's something

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Speaker 2: that you're but.

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Speaker 1: He grew into that control, like we gave him control.

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Speaker 1: He learned how to handle it, I think at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: which was kind of appealing to me. When I met him.

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Speaker 1: He had like twenty or so people who were before me,

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Speaker 1: and it was early in the eighties, and he wasn't

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Speaker 1: quite used to having people around him. And he did

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Speaker 1: still have his life on the side, obviously that we

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Speaker 1: didn't know about, but his secret life. He didn't want

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Speaker 1: to quite give up yet. And he came off as

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Speaker 1: like a reluctant guru, like, you know, he didn't want

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Speaker 1: people around him. He was kind of reclusive. We didn't

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Speaker 1: want to get to know him for the first and

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Speaker 1: then he pulled me in closer, and then I got

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Speaker 1: to know him closer, and then he became more accessible

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Speaker 1: to everyone. So it was an evolution. It didn't start off.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm on this thing and I kind of drunk

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Speaker 2: on that he.

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Speaker 1: Did and grew into that role if you want to

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Speaker 1: call it that.

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Speaker 2: Well, tell us about the good times, like what was

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Speaker 2: appealing about him to you, what was appealing about the group,

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Speaker 2: Like what did it feel like?

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Speaker 1: Okay as a twenty two year old, and I thought

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Speaker 1: I was pretty liberal because I was a filmmaker and gay,

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Speaker 1: so how much more liberal? But I wasn't experiencing the

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Speaker 1: freedom that I would see in him. He was un

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Speaker 1: self conscious, you know. He would sing on the top

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Speaker 1: of it, he would act, he'd make faces, he'd make jokes,

346
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Speaker 1: he'd be funny. He was smart, cultured, he was politically irreverent,

347
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Speaker 1: he was radical. I was like, who is this guy?

348
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Speaker 1: And I remember thinking to myself, up until that point,

349
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Speaker 1: I didn't have any older people in my life that

350
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Speaker 1: were examples of how do you get to be eighty

351
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Speaker 1: or sixty without becoming an old person? And I saw

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Speaker 1: this man. He was probably forty five and more alive

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Speaker 1: than all of us in the group. Right. He was

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Speaker 1: more active, more healthy, he knew everything. He read a lot.

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Speaker 1: Now they say that readers are leaders, and he read

356
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Speaker 1: all the time, so I mean he read read. So

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Speaker 1: he was just remarkable. He always had an answer for everything,

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Speaker 1: and we all looked to him and we also got

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Speaker 1: grounded around him because he did meditate.

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Speaker 3: So the basis of the group was was meditation? Shotkey,

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Speaker 3: shot key.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was first, it was meditation, devotion. There's four chairs.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, there's four lakes to the stool and you

364
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Speaker 1: have to have all four if you want a stool

365
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Speaker 1: to sit up right. Yeah, okay. One was devotion. You

366
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Speaker 1: have to be devoted, like in India, it's like your

367
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Speaker 1: devotion to love to God is it was what carries

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Speaker 1: you to enlightenment. This is about enlightenment.

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Speaker 3: Oh I see, so this was enlightenment, right.

370
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Speaker 1: We were trying to get enlightened, free of karma, free

371
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Speaker 1: of birth and rebirth. That was part of it. But

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Speaker 1: devotion meditation service, which is like doing selfless things and

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Speaker 1: keeping holy companies what we call ourselves. So this is

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Speaker 1: where I think like minded groups become cults. Is you

375
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Speaker 1: all think the same and you have a certain group think,

376
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Speaker 1: and you don't go outside of yourself to seek outside

377
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Speaker 1: points of view. You also become sequestered or somehow isolated

378
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Speaker 1: from our family and friends.

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Speaker 2: I saw that you guys weren't allowed to watch TV

380
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Speaker 2: or listen to the radio. Is that right? Yeah, totally

381
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Speaker 2: isolated in the world. That's I mean classic move.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You have to keep it insulated so that no new

384
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Speaker 2: ideas come into the fold. Did any of that bother

385
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Speaker 2: you or you were you?

386
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Speaker 1: Well, it's weird. I mean. See, he was so into entertainment.

387
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Speaker 1: Every Friday, we'd all go to the movies together, like

388
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Speaker 1: thirty forty fifty people in the movie.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

390
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Speaker 1: So we had so much fun. We had Like Monday

391
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Speaker 1: night we have acting classes. We did four hours and

392
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Speaker 1: five hours of ego acting and screaming and laughing and playing,

393
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Speaker 1: singing and dancing. So't I didn't miss it. Yeah, it's

394
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Speaker 1: interesting because I came in I was a filmmaker, and

395
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Speaker 1: I was the oscar was like my main goal as

396
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Speaker 1: a child. You know, that was like our in our country.

397
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Speaker 1: I think that's the highest thing you can get, the oscar.

398
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Speaker 1: And I was always like that in college. I was,

399
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Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to be a filmmaker. He told

400
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Speaker 1: the story that he was this actor who was on

401
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 1: the cusp of getting the biggest role him ra al

402
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Speaker 1: Pacino or something, you know, and and he had the

403
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Speaker 1: choice of being with his guru to have God revealed

404
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 1: to him. He chose that he let the other stuff go. Ah, yes,

405
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,719
Speaker 1: so we all let everything go. He's like, that's nothing.

406
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Speaker 1: You know, what is an oscar? If you don't know

407
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 1: who you are or what is God. It's like, okay,

408
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 1: I go this has to come first. I get this,

409
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: and then I'll go do the oscar. Yeah, you know,

410
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: I'll get things in line and then all well, so many.

411
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Speaker 3: People in the group, yourself included, are just gorgeous and

412
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Speaker 3: talented and fit by and it's just like it's almost

413
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Speaker 3: like he was keeping you guys from the stuff he

414
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Speaker 3: couldn't get.

415
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Speaker 2: I felt like, you know what I mean.

416
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Speaker 1: I think so I think on some level, I mean

417
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Speaker 1: everyone when we came to the group, I was a

418
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Speaker 1: skinny little guy. I mean all of us looked different

419
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Speaker 1: when we first walked in the door. And then if

420
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 1: you really kind of commit to the whole program where

421
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 1: you're eating better and then we work out health and

422
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: you start to become beautiful because that is your normal self,

423
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: that's like your healthiest self, right, and you're meditating, so

424
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Speaker 1: there's like the beauty coming from within and you're emanating.

425
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Speaker 1: It's all beautiful. So even if someone wasn't like what

426
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: you would consider physically what we consider beautiful or whatever,

427
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: they became it really quickly.

428
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Speaker 2: But you're also in Los Angeles. Young people in Los

429
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 2: Angeles on the attractive side.

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there were actors in the group and they

431
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: were attracted. So the actors were attracted to him because

432
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Speaker 1: he was an actor. The singers were attracted him because

433
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Speaker 1: he was a singer. The musicians, they were musicians, so

434
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 1: everyone was attracted to him for a different reason, and

435
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,919
Speaker 1: he could satisfy all of their needs. And he was

436
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 1: a therapist for all of us too. So he was

437
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 1: our guru, which is a spiritual thing over there, right,

438
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: you go see him for a guide. He's also a therapist,

439
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: which is like totally different. That's where you tell him everything. Yeah, psychological,

440
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: he was inside of our heads.

441
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 3: All right, that's a little scientology right there.

442
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 1: Huh.

443
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

444
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 3: Did he have a guru?

445
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: He would never talk about it. It was one of

446
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: those mystery things. He said. He didn't want people to

447
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 1: know about his guru because he didn't want them to

448
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: become focused on that he didn't really have a guru

449
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: and he was self acclaimed.

450
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, I want to.

451
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 2: Talk about the knowing because that is like one of

452
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 2: the most interesting things in the films.

453
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 1: I should reveal it to you right now, please after

454
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: this podcast.

455
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 2: I cannot wait.

456
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 3: So you guys basically go on a retreat to nature beautiful,

457
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 3: and he's going to pick out of the group people

458
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 3: that get to know the knowing, which is meeting gods

459
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 3: and people who don't.

460
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: That's right.

461
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 3: We were to have like wondering how did he decide?

462
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 1: Do you think I have no idea? You know? Whoever

463
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 1: wrote in the nicest letters, I think I.

464
00:20:58,920 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 2: Know I think.

465
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: Here it was whoever he like felt he knew everyone

466
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: so well, he would his whole what he's I hate

467
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: to kind of share with you his philosophy, but but

468
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 1: his philosophy was that this experience of God is so

469
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: sublime that you can miss it if I show you

470
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: what it is, because you wouldn't tell us what it is.

471
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: If you can show you what it is, if you're

472
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 1: not if you haven't meditated enough, if you haven't like

473
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: go your ego, if you haven't separated yourself from your

474
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: ego self, you're gonna you can miss it, and that

475
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: would be terrible. So if I don't give it to

476
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 1: you just because you're not ready, so it's not because

477
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 1: you're bad or whatever or unworthy, it's because you're just

478
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: not ready for it, you can handle it.

479
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, self esteems. What's fascinating to me about that

480
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 2: watching the documentary is like people are having these like

481
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 2: very real physical experiences where it's like magic is actually

482
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: happening within their bodies. And people were describing it as

483
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: like an LSD trip, and you, you got the knowing

484
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: right tell us what it was like for you.

485
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: I didn't go into it in the in the movie

486
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: so much because we were trying to not reveal too

487
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: much as we went through the movie, because we didn't

488
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: want to do hindsight. We want it to be as we.

489
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 2: As it went.

490
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 1: He literally has one. But I wasn't really extremely impressed

491
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: with the knowing. What I said in the movie was

492
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: it wasn't what I thought, But it wasn't. You know,

493
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: we'd been set up. I had been there for four

494
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: years before this was real to me. I'd been given

495
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: four years of my life and I was serving him,

496
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: I was living with him. I'll just tell you everyone

497
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,959
Speaker 1: before me who had the knowing you never see them meditate,

498
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: but they would talk about light and music and nectar,

499
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: and they were just so drunk. And I was like,

500
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: I want what they have. I want what they have.

501
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: I want what they have. Right when it came down

502
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: to it, it really was technique. It wasn't just like

503
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: He's going to touch your third eye and you're going

504
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: to have this awakening on your own and this healing

505
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: on your own, which I thought my mind interpreted. It's like,

506
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, God's going to make me enlightened or something.

507
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: You know, It's going to open my third eye and

508
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: see everything. Well, it wasn't like that. You know, you

509
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: touched your third eye and he also poked your your

510
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: eyeballs really hard. Oh, and the knowing technique was pushing

511
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: your fingers on your eyes like this. It's an ancient

512
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: yoga technique, so it's not like it's fake, but it's

513
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 1: a technique meaning it can help you meditate.

514
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: And what does the function of it?

515
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: Well, when you push your eye, when you push your

516
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: fingers to your eyes, you can see light, and that

517
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: light you kind of use as a meditation source and

518
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: you dive into that, and that's God. God is within

519
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: the darkness, right, so if you really focus on the darkness,

520
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: you can see light. Well, when you push your eyes,

521
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: you can see more. Of course, I was like, this

522
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: is very optical nerves. These are my optical nerves. If

523
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: I push harder, I see more God I push God.

524
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: This is like I was like, I had huge questions

525
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: from the very beginning, and no one told me this

526
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: four years ago, Right, I'd been there for four years

527
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: asking for this to be shown to me. Was finally

528
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 1: shown and then then the music. You put your fingers

529
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: in your ears, It's beautiful. It's like when you hold

530
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: a shell up to your ear and you hear that

531
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: sound coming back at your own ear drumm. It's your

532
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: own vibration. Who this is sound like, oh the oh,

533
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: the sound of the universe, And so you can meditate

534
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: with that. It was another technique to help you dissolve

535
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: into and be in love with meditation in the universe.

536
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like an instant enlightenment. It was the

537
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: beginning of your work, because now it starts. I was like,

538
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: now it starts. I was getting ready to leave. It

539
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: was four years in.

540
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: But for a lot of the people who at least

541
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 2: in the scenes that we saw in the doc, they're

542
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: like giggling and were running around and like it's like

543
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: they're actually on drugs. Do you think that that was real? Like,

544
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: what do you happened?

545
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: I had those experiences. Yeah, you have those experiences. You

546
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 1: can't control when those happen. I mean, you know when

547
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: all of a sudden everything comes together and you're actually

548
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: feeling out of the way in light. I mean, some

549
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: of those things could be emotional breakthroughs. I might have

550
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: been feeling someone's emotional breakthrough, which is just an emotional release.

551
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

552
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: Right. Some people would shake and shock to their heads

553
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: with shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, so and

554
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: I would be like, wow, they were totally experiencing something

555
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: we all did. We experienced stuff ecstasy, and but we

556
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: were also meditating all the time. I mean we meditate

557
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: an hour in the morning, hour at night, all day.

558
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: You're metating during action, and then every event was meditation.

559
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: So we were like ready to be ecstatic. We were

560
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: close much to push us over and have us cry

561
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: and scream and be so you know sensitive.

562
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 2: So interesting were there. Do you remember any specific moments

563
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 2: or any like specific things he did or said where

564
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: you were like that's weird. Oh yeah, Like.

565
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: What was your first one? Yeah, where you were like,

566
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: oh what the fuck?

567
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Well my first one besides all

568
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: of them, is he started to use a flashlight to

569
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: give shock d So originally he would give shokti in

570
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: front of everyone in the room. He touch our forehead

571
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: and you know, you either feel it or you don't,

572
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, you just meditate. Well, then we were

573
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: in a retreat in Arcada Mountains and I was told

574
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: not to film. We were had like all these people around,

575
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: We're going to have a moment where people come up

576
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: to him and receive something. And I was told not

577
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: to film anything. I was like, well, I'm going to

578
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: film anyhow. So I always got my camera out and

579
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: I saw him in the tree and he was pulling

580
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: out a little teeny flashlight and he was putting it

581
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: in their forehead and on their eyes, and it was

582
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: like this trick, right, And I'm a purist. I was like,

583
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: here for the real thing. I really was, Yeah, I'm

584
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: really serious. I believe what I was hearing, and I

585
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: wanted the truth. I didn't when he lies, no lies,

586
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: and this is like, what the fuck is he doing?

587
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: I was like, why is he doing that? And then

588
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: that night, so I talked to my best friend that

589
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: day and I was like, you know, I can't do this.

590
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: Like he's using a flashlight, so.

591
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: Like make it look like your eyes were flashing light.

592
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're closing their eyes. They might not have

593
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: the knowing, but they might be like I saw light.

594
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: So that night we're all together and a lot of

595
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: people who weren't able to experience meditation is deep. They

596
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: started crying that night, going I saw light today, I

597
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: saw light. I know it's possible for me. I know,

598
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking to myself going Okay, I can't say

599
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: anything because it seems like he's helping them on some level,

600
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: they're getting closer to something, and so I just you know,

601
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: we were all told not to interfere with his work,

602
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: and like he knows what he's doing and don't interfere,

603
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 1: and so I would just I would just wait and

604
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: see what happened, you know, I would just keep my

605
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: mouth shut.

606
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 3: Did you tell Like I remember your sister wasn't able

607
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: to receive the knowing. Did you tell her.

608
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: What it was?

609
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

610
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, yeah it was that was part

611
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: of the illusion. Is you don't really let people know.

612
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

613
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: That reminds me of scientology too. Or it's like you

614
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 3: get to that certain point and they're like here it is.

615
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: What. No, to the degree that you're comfortable, I'm curious,

616
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 2: just like about the sexual stuff and when that started happening,

617
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: and like how that made you feel, and and and

618
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: the experience of like when there when that shift happened,

619
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: when people started realizing maybe there was something wrong.

620
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: God, that's a big one. I mean, it's just a

621
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of subtle leading up to things,

622
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: a lot onions. I'm going to write about it. But

623
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: he's a master predator. Predators have a long term plan.

624
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: They can kind of string you along, and it's like

625
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: a what do you call it? Grooming? Right, So I

626
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: was groomed without knowing it. He had me start working

627
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: out with them, and he'd always say things to me

628
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: and I would look at him like what was that.

629
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: It was like a flirt and I would think. I'd

630
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: look at him like are you flirting with me? Because

631
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: that wasn't part of it, right, Yeah, and then he

632
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: covered up. Oh no, No, Like one time he said

633
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 1: to me, we're coming out of the gym and he's like,

634
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, all those men in there, they think you're

635
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: so attractive, but you better save that butt for me.

636
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: Oh.

637
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: And I looked at him and I was like what

638
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: And he goes, I don't want you to get distracted.

639
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,239
Speaker 1: You need to let all that energy rise up and

640
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: just put it all into meditation. Just save that energy

641
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: for meditation. And I was like, but that's not what

642
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: you said.

643
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were like, no, you said something about my bot.

644
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like a year and a half. A

645
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: year later, maybe that the whole thing happened. So he'd

646
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: be planting those seas with me, and I'd be like, what, Yeah,

647
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: I did a massage on him for a year and

648
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: it was never sexual. So I never had any inclination

649
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: that that was something that was part of his personality. Really,

650
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: we all saw him as like this non sexual sexual

651
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: the impression he gave us and that's what he wanted

652
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: us to do.

653
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: Did you guys know that he was gayer? Was he

654
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: just totally asexual?

655
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: We could tell he was gay, but he wouldn't admit it.

656
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: And so when someone doesn't admit something, you kind of

657
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: don't know if you wanted to call him that, right,

658
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: So even amongst all the girls and guys were all like,

659
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: I know he had to face them. I'm not sure

660
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: and for sure he's gay, but he talks about girls

661
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: well who knows, So we're all like, who knows.

662
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, But sexuality was he was down upon and he

663
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: talked about like sex was bad.

664
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: It was a distraction. Distract was distraction, well not silly.

665
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: But he would like make somene of it. It's the

666
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: silliest thing I've ever seen, Like the weird.

667
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: Animals can have sex, what's the big deal. Yeah, it's

668
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: the lowest part of you, right, So he's like, okay, well,

669
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: don't do that.

670
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: Exactly what somebody obsessed with sex would say.

671
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: That music video was unbelievable. What is it called again?

672
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: Fatale?

673
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: So fatal? Is this music video that much all made? Well,

674
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: that well made. But Michelle is dressed as a woman,

675
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: and he's got these two ladies next to him and

676
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: these like belly dancing outfits with these like psychedelic backgrounds

677
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: and some of the shots. And the whole point is

678
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: that sex is bad and makes you distracted from spirituality,

679
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 2: and women are the ones who make you think about sex.

680
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: So therefore women are bad. And it ends with Michelle

681
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: dressed as a woman being hit by a truck. Are

682
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: too sexual?

683
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: I want to give you the DVD because the DVD

684
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: has like seventy days of extra go right, because in

685
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 1: the extra stuff you didn't get in in the film, right,

686
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: we took out. But yeah, he treats women really terribly,

687
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, like, well, just just he wouldn't do it

688
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: to their face because they're all devoted. You would say

689
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: things like, oh, women just have you know, like cows

690
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: have utters and they have a you know's, they're like

691
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: these cows and women they're just like carry babies or

692
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: just like any like just really terrible stuff. Yeah, of life,

693
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: you know.

694
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: I mean, meanwhile, he's clearly training men terribly because he's

695
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: assaulting them on a regular basis. Yeah, tell us about

696
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: the turning point.

697
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: He took me on a trip. The first time I

698
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: traveled with him was to Hawaii, and I was nervous

699
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: to go, but I was his caretaker. I started becoming

700
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: one of his body workers, and he needed me to

701
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: go and we went for a month. And it was

702
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: on that trip that he kind of attacked me. In

703
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: the middle of the night. I was in I was

704
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: on a couch in the living room and he was

705
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 1: sleeping in the other room and he comes into my

706
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: into the living room, and I don't remember why he

707
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: came in. I just remember he was at my bed

708
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: and I might have been adjusting something, because he might

709
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: be like, my shoulder hurts, and I would do something

710
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: like that. And then he started his cock was there,

711
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, And he's like, here,

712
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: take this, suck it. You know you want it. And

713
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: I remember I remember saying to myself, like, you know

714
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: you wanted Why would he think that?

715
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: Yet thinking why would you think?

716
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: What if I said to him to make him think

717
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: I want this. That was my main thing, and then

718
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: he did nothing. I don't think. I don't know how

719
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: far it went because I don't remember. And then he left.

720
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: I was like wrecked after that, and but we act

721
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: he had nothing happened next day. So the whole thing

722
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: was like a lot of deception and camouflage. So for me,

723
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: it was completely hiding. He ignored it, I ignored it.

724
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: We never let anyone know. And then then I got

725
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: home and then he started to act more spiritual around

726
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: it with me and say, I'm going to show you

727
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: how you know, how sex is supposed to be, and

728
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: how it's sharing of energy, it's not physical, it's all

729
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: these things. And this is my teacher did this with me.

730
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: This is what the clincher for me was. He's like,

731
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: it's very special. I'm going to show you this. And

732
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: my teacher had this relationship with.

733
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: Me, my imaginary teacher, right.

734
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm like, well, but see, it's funny because

735
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: he also had told me not to have sex, so

736
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: for two years I really wasn't having sex. And so

737
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: on some level, as if you were looking at me

738
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: as a five year old child, which he had kind

739
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: of kept us all. At that age, you're also innocent, trusting.

740
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: It felt good to be close with him. Yeah, I

741
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: mean I loved him very much. You know, he hadn't

742
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: done anything to hurt me yet. I just didn't like him,

743
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: but I loved him, and he'd given me so much.

744
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: I felt like I had grown only because of him.

745
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: So in that moment, He's there with me, looking at me,

746
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: and I was always he was always in a chair,

747
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: his throne. I was always kneeling. That was our sexual relationship.

748
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: It was it wasn't anything that I felt affection by,

749
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: anything normal that you would have in a relationship. I laughed.

750
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: I say, when I got out of the group, I

751
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: was like a scene in the film I took out,

752
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: was like this little bridge between when I got out

753
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: and made the movie and I said, Oh I got out.

754
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: I went traveling, I did parties, drank, had consensual sex.

755
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: It was so fantastic, all equal sex, you know, sex

756
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: was equal and fair.

757
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't. I can't imagine that being your first

758
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: time having consensual sex, you know, at that age, it's

759
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: that's just so sad.

760
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: I'm just so sorry. Can you tell us a little

761
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: bit about the hypnosis.

762
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was fascinating. Back in the seventies and eighties,

763
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: hypnosis for cigarette smoking and weight gain was a big deal.

764
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: So people looking for careers would become a quick hypnotherapist

765
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: and set up a practice teaching people not to smoke.

766
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: So he did that. So he had like one hundred

767
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: people clients who were all his media client base. He

768
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: would see five to seven people a day, seven days

769
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: a week. We'd pay him fifty dollars a day. Fifty dollars.

770
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: Of his followers are paying him fifty dollars a day.

771
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty dollars a session session. Yeah, like once a week.

772
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: I had it for seven years, but I couldn't wait

773
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: to get it too because it was so healing. It

774
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: was fun. You know. You go to be with him.

775
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: You wanted to be with him. He wasn't doing anything

776
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: nasty during this time. He was just your therapist. You

777
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: could talk to him about anything, and you would talk

778
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: about the deepest, darkest things, and he'd take you on

779
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: a regression therapy session. He might say something like I'm

780
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 1: feeling I hate my job, I hate it, I don't

781
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: like with his closees eyes go down along fire steps

782
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: ten steps, and then you know, I always remembered everything.

783
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't like your hypnosis where you turn into a

784
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: chicken and you run around. It's like you're there participating

785
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: and he's like, what are you feeling? And you go

786
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: follow your emotions down and he wants you to take

787
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: it back into the very beginning, as far back as

788
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: you can, as far back as it bubbles up. And

789
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: it would bubble up, you know, your childhood, something happened

790
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: and he would help you work it out because usually

791
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: we don't have a voice that young, and you feel

792
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: traumatized early and he's there and he said, tell your

793
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: mother you're just a kid, and tell her a fuck

794
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: off and hit the pillow. It's like fuck and he

795
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: let all this anger out as a child, and he's

796
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: bringing back into the room and you'd be like you've

797
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: come back here now, and you'd be like, wow, I

798
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: just really dealt with something here that I didn't know

799
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: was there, and I feel better and I felt great.

800
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: You can't sound like it'd be actually cathartic.

801
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

802
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: Did he ever use any of that information to manipulate

803
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: you guys? That seems like he did.

804
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: He did he and I got that I got that seat.

805
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: I never I could never. You can never tell it

806
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: because he was so smooth, But I got it from

807
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: all my interviews from other people. They would all tell me, like,

808
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: then this thing I told him came back five years later.

809
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: He uses a kids me and like like Ricky Chris

810
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: who was in the film, he was the straight boy

811
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: who was abused, who spoke so beautifully. His parents died

812
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: when he was like and the car crashed me. He

813
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: was nine months old, so he was foster parents. His

814
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: grandparents raised him. And so his his recurring pattern, you know,

815
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: we all have recurring patterns, was I'm a I'm an orphan, right,

816
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: I have no family. That was his like mantra that

817
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: he would get to the bottom of in therapy, and

818
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: so sometimes the teacher would say to him, stop acting

819
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: like an orphan, right, oh, if he was acting, if

820
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: he's acting needy, And then if he wanted him to

821
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: be like the opposite, he would say he would boost

822
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: him up. But he would use it both ways, like

823
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: negative and positive against you, like.

824
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: You're the best family ever, need this.

825
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: Family, blah blah blah. You know, and then that girl

826
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: doesn't like you. Stop acting like a beggar, you're just

827
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: being an orphan.

828
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: Stop so abusive.

829
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 3: And he would use the hypnotherapy to molest the straight guys.

830
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: It seemed like, yeah, he would work him down, especially

831
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: if these straight guys might bring something to him, like,

832
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm having thoughts of men. I'm you know,

833
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: first time ever and I don't know what to do,

834
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: and he's like, he would say, well, you need to

835
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: work that out with me, and then he say something

836
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: we had past lives together where we were lovers. Oh yeah,

837
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: And so he really pulled a number on these guys.

838
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 3: He never did anything with women ever.

839
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, not that No, only the guys needed help. Yah,

840
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 1: only the guys that needed help with their sex.

841
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: The woman They're fine.

842
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: And the worst thing, truly is is his relationship. This

843
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: is way you had to be careful of any of

844
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: these things. Is is this one person Trump's everything? Trump Trump,

845
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: the one person President Trump's everything. And he told me

846
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: to keep a secret. It was a secret. It was

847
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: like a divine secret. I was like, this is my Like,

848
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: can I keep this secret? Was was my goal? Like

849
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: can I be faithful enough to keep the secret? So

850
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: my best girlfriend in the group was like my closest

851
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: closest friend. I never told her, and she would talk

852
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: to me in code. She would say like, is something

853
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: going on with you and him? I'd be like, yeah,

854
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: she goes, is it something that's really bothered? I'm like, yeah,

855
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: she goes, is he dood? I don't want to talk

856
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: about this. No, no, it's not that. And I would

857
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: cut her off when she'd get closer because I felt

858
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: like I was bringing we're all going to get in

859
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: trouble if we talk about it. So it wasn't ntil

860
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: later when I confided in her, much much later. If

861
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: we don't all talk really openly and transparent about all

862
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: these things that are shaming, is shameful or whatever?

863
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: Is this?

864
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: Human beings? We're just learning from each other.

865
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: The shame is what perpetuates it. I mean. And when

866
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: people feel like they can't talk about these things that

867
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 2: are going on, I feel like they have to keep

868
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: these secrets.

869
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: Like now, he stopped this with me after five years,

870
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: so he did me for five He has a five

871
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: year span kind of you know, the door changes.

872
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: When they get too old or you just get sick

873
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: of them. Think you guys, yeah, you guys. Just just

874
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: a period in time where he starts getting more paranoid

875
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 2: and more surgeries. Like it's just so fascinating to me,

876
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 2: like this unraveling of this person who has this power.

877
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: Like you guys werehearsed, what would happen if the FBI came?

878
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 3: He moved you all to Austin from Los Angeles.

879
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: Everyone a hundred people left their jobs or apartments or homes.

880
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: They quit, They left. I mean, that's how powerful he

881
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: was at that time. It was nineteen nineteen and we've

882
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: been around him for five or so years, and everyone

883
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: wanted the knowing and nothing really bad had happened, and

884
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: he was being persecuted by cult awareness and he went

885
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: on the run and he said, if you guys want

886
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: to be with your master, you have to follow me.

887
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: And everyone's like Master, everyone heard followed. I didn't have

888
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: a choice. He's like, you're coming with me, and he

889
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: grabbed me.

890
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

891
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: I was like, well, well what And this is a

892
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: chance for people to get out really, because the group

893
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: did disperse and you could have gotten down, and some

894
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: people did. Some people just didn't follow them, you know.

895
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one hundred people following one hundred Wow.

896
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: But they didn't see this wasn't in the movie either

897
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: because it's so complicated but it's interesting, and I'll tell

898
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: you because he's so smart. He didn't want to get

899
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: caught because narcissists never want to get caught. They never

900
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: want to go to jail. So what he did is

901
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: he sent thirty people to Atlanta, thirty people to Phoenix,

902
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: thirty people to Santa Fe and then a handful of

903
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: us went to Austin and those guys lived there for

904
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: three two to three years without him, just as a

905
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: group of maybe twenty or thirty people, so that if

906
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: anyone was looking for him, they wouldn't know where he went.

907
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: He went to Atlanta, I think he went to there.

908
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: I think he went here. We don't know where he

909
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: it is. He has people everywhere. Where's the walnut. It's

910
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: the whole walnut game, right, But he used their lives, Yeah,

911
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: to go You guys need to go there. That's what

912
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: you need to do to serve me say. Up until then,

913
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: it was like the guidance was always like, this is

914
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: going to help you, this is for you you need.

915
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: Then it became when the paranoia happened and he all

916
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: became like, how do we protect the queen Bee? So

917
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: people change their lives for him to protect him, and

918
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: it was this switch and that was the language.

919
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: He was using, that language like we're all aware of that.

920
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, he was like, this is what

921
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: you need. He wouldn't know. I figure all that out.

922
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: I watched that no one else knew was going on.

923
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: They were like, I'm going to Atlanta, so excited.

924
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: At but if you're if you've moved to Los Angeles,

925
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: you're probably pursuing different things than just very different.

926
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then they.

927
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: All got brought into Austin after it was safe and secure,

928
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: but his paranoia created new rules, new guidelines, harder to

929
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: get in, harder, harder to know anything. See, he didn't

930
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: trust anyone at this point, not even his followers, so

931
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: he kept him really far away until he knew he

932
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: could trust them also and bring them in because people

933
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: were betraying him.

934
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: And he was paranoid because of Waco.

935
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: Right, He's paranoid before that, before that, because we had

936
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: people in LA people went to cult awareness. There's this

937
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: guy who was Yeah, there was a girl in the

938
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: group and she had a stalker after her, Yeah, and

939
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: he was really interested in getting her out of the

940
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: group and started to say things really loudly by the

941
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: teacher and going to cult awareness, and the teacher felt

942
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: threatened and felt he couldn't protect himself, and he started

943
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: pulling in some of these straight guys to be his guard,

944
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: his what do you call it, bouncer bodyguard, and they're

945
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: all getting so everyone gets all these like upgrades, they

946
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: get like new roles and they feel very important. Chris

947
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: was like, I got to be his boy card I

948
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: was so happy that I was a karate expert. I

949
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: hear I was, and so you know, he just turned

950
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: everything into this is for you and you get to

951
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: be closer to me, but it's really for me.

952
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 3: Well it's funny how narcissists, you know, can be doing

953
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 3: the craziest ship in the world, but it actually can

954
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: serve multiple people until the like paranoia heads.

955
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like it's just.

956
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: Like the train is off. You guys find yourself living

957
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: in Austin and I love it. Building him a like

958
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 3: theater where he just makes you guys do ballets for yourself.

959
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 2: They looked beautiful by the way the ballet work.

960
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was like year long ballets where you

961
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: guys would make beautiful costumes. In the practice every day

962
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: and no one.

963
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: Would you guys them at one place for one day

964
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: with half the people in the audience and half the

965
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: people are on stage. But what he would do he

966
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: would get people who were clothes designers, who was who

967
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: were in our group, or costume designer sorry, or set

968
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: designers and dancers and he turned people into dancers. So

969
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: everyone had this service, right, we'll use that word to

970
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: participate in the Bay Ballet, even if they weren't dancers.

971
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: That was his obsession. And that happened after he got

972
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: established better in Austin and things calmed down. Then he

973
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: started doing his thing what he wanted to do, without

974
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: carrying what people thought, because there was no one after

975
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: him at that point. So we stayed in Austin for

976
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: like fourteen years and it was kind of calm. We

977
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: kind of had a life that felt not the stress

978
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: of being chased or being persecuted.

979
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 2: How are you supporting yourselves during this time?

980
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: Everyone else had jobs. Everyone had to have jobs in

981
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: La had a job until he pulled me out of

982
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: the marketplace and I became his body worker, his chauffeur,

983
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: so I couldn't work and he just paid my I

984
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: would have rent. He paid my rent and give me food.

985
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: But as it for fifteen years, no money, food, water,

986
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: wow and bed. But you know I had all my

987
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: friends and we're all loving is you know, it's all

988
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: about God. It really wasn't about money. But my other

989
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: friends all worked, They all had jobs, and they hot

990
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: rent that they had to pay when the group broke up.

991
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: Some of them I had businesses already established. You know,

992
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Because look at like the Rings

993
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: of Saturn. I think this goes with any kind of religion.

994
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: The closer you are to the middle, you know, it's

995
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: a little hotter and you get more traumatized. And the

996
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: people in the outer rings were just like enjoying the

997
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: kool aid and they'd show up every once in a while.

998
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: It's making their life better.

999
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 3: Good for you, I mean you are like in the

1000
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 3: Seventh Player, because we.

1001
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: Were really doing the work, and that's what you believe.

1002
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: You know, Lola had a very great point the plastic surgery.

1003
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 3: Well what were you saying about this?

1004
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember what I was saying about it.

1005
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 2: But he starts to look crazy. I mean, what did

1006
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: you guys think of it?

1007
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: This documentary takes place over twenty two years, so we

1008
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 3: see him very young and beautiful, and then it's just

1009
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 3: the slow evolution of a person looking like like a plate.

1010
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: Like a melting.

1011
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: And it was ironic for me because I entered the

1012
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: group hoping to find a good example of growing old gracefully.

1013
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: How do you grow old to get better?

1014
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: If you get older more lovely, you get tons of

1015
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: plastic surgery.

1016
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: How did you fight age? I mean no, I didn't

1017
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: see that coming. I think it was like the Dorian

1018
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: Gray painting. Really, I liken it to that because that's

1019
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: probably more honest to what he looks like.

1020
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because the book he's actually aging and sending

1021
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 3: in the picture, but he is trying to make believe

1022
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 3: that he is still this speedo babe.

1023
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all know Dorian Gray the story of the

1024
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: Speedo babe.

1025
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: If he's darker inside, that's true. You know, he really

1026
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: just did a lot of injections. I mean, he'd done

1027
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: facelifts and nose job already, but he would get his

1028
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: lips done wrestling botox, and that's what made him look

1029
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: so distorted. Wrestling was around then, I don't know, whatever,

1030
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: you like other people at first too, so he could

1031
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: see if he liked that, we had people get cheecken

1032
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: plants because see he wanted chicken. Oh my god, I

1033
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: am plants like little under your bag. You can tell

1034
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: I don't have them. God, he never told me to

1035
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: do anything.

1036
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

1037
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: Made people work to paste if they didn't know hair

1038
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: because you look younger young, I'm like, he looks stupid

1039
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: with that. Wow. This man just all image and he

1040
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: wanted to be surrounded by that, so he went to

1041
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: young people and beautiful people. At one point, someone saw

1042
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: a photograph of us all at the dinner table back

1043
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: in the day, back in the eighties, and we were

1044
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: all so young, We're in our twenties, and there's this

1045
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: like forty five year old man with us, and someone goes,

1046
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: anyone would have looked at that and said, what's going

1047
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,919
Speaker 1: on here? Why is this man around all these young,

1048
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: gorgeous people. What is he getting out of this? What's

1049
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: happening here?

1050
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: Right?

1051
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: You know, but people would you guys would joke about

1052
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: how people would think you were a cult though.

1053
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of information about cults at the time,

1054
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: and we would go over the list be oh that's us, well,

1055
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: that's us, Yeah, that's us because we were on a

1056
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: path of enlightenment. This has nothing to do with us. Yeah,

1057
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: nothing to do with us.

1058
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 2: What was the breaking point for you? What made you

1059
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: decide to leave?

1060
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: This is kind of embarrassing because it took me a

1061
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: long time. I'm not embarrassed by it, really, but it

1062
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: might be hard to understand. I was really, really completely loyal,

1063
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: Like my loyalty was my integrity. It had nothing to

1064
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: do with him. It had to do with my vows.

1065
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: He made us make like to God and me, and

1066
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to quit. I wasn't going to quit,

1067
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, nothing was going to make me quit this

1068
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: path because I took a promise. It felt very real

1069
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: to me besides him, you know. And it wasn't until

1070
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: the group broke up, started to break up, and fifty

1071
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: people had left and fifty people were staying.

1072
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 3: Letter came out.

1073
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: The letter came out in two thousand and six, and

1074
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: it exploded. Everyone got this letter that said he'd been

1075
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: abusing these guys and these straight boys and over seventeen

1076
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: guys and he's been lying and he was a porn star.

1077
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: And everyone's like what. And I had had time to

1078
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: process the porn and all those little things. Over time

1079
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: I called the morphine drip. I would be like every day,

1080
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, this sucks, but I have meditation,

1081
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: my friends, I don't feel anything. I can compartmentalize all

1082
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: this under my business. But when it all came out

1083
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: in one big capsule, everyone, no one could digest it.

1084
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: It was way to a discongruous, incongruous with their belief system.

1085
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't they couldn't see him anymore as their beloved teacher.

1086
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: And it just blew up. So half the people left immediately,

1087
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: half the people who devoted their lives to it. It's

1088
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 1: really hard to change tracks and say, okay, I'm giving

1089
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: it all up. You know, so I had a job.

1090
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: My job was to serve him, which was serving the

1091
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: budda field, because his work was to help everyone. So

1092
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: my little teeny job was to help him help everyone. Okay.

1093
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: So as soon as the group broke up, I was like,

1094
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: you know what, dude, there's no one here to help.

1095
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm out here. My friends have left. I'm not helping anyone.

1096
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm not helping my friends. Because I thought I was

1097
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: helping my friends. I really did. I thought we were

1098
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: keeping the group together, keeping us together somehow like a family. Yeah,

1099
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: this is twenty two years. You have to understand a

1100
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: lot of good things happened during the time, a lot

1101
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: of bad things, but that's like a family. And we

1102
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: had all created really deep family bonds because we saw

1103
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: the deepest parts of ourselves, the ugliest parts, and so

1104
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: we all love each other. And it was in Hawaii

1105
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: and I realized I'm done. I don't have to do

1106
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: anything anymore. I don't have any service.

1107
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: And it was embarrassing at all.

1108
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: By the way, Well, it took me a long time

1109
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: to get there. Yeah, I feel like I knew more

1110
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: than a lot of people, and I should have got

1111
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: out a long time ago, but because I had, like

1112
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: I call it like the sugar pill. You know, you're

1113
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: you're taking your it's a small microdose of it. You know,

1114
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: you're getting a little bit. I used to liking it too,

1115
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: the frog boiling, right put it. We put in cool

1116
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: water and it feels great, and it slowly acclimates as

1117
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: it gets hotter, and eventually it's boiling and doesn't know it.

1118
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 2: That's like that exactly exactly. It's the right metaphor for

1119
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: this for joining a cult, because nobody jumps into the

1120
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: boiling water.

1121
00:49:58,800 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: No, they jump out.

1122
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 3: If they did, you didn't say anything to him, You

1123
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: just kind of.

1124
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. I'm not a confrontational person. So I didn't

1125
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: use a lot of words because I felt like I

1126
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 1: was just walking.

1127
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: What do you think his reaction was?

1128
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: What I heard from other people was that he missed

1129
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: me the most, that he was the most upset that

1130
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: I left. But that could be this bullshit.

1131
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: You but you were there with him for a long

1132
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: He got used to me.

1133
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was very nice to him, you know.

1134
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: Of course I never confronted him, right. I would argue,

1135
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: I would argue with him, but I was very much okay,

1136
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 1: you know, basically would want me to leave the room

1137
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: when he would discuss things, says I didn't want to

1138
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: hear what he was planning. I didn't hear what he

1139
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: was plotting. I didn't even hear what he was doing.

1140
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: I'd be like bye. So ten years into it, I

1141
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: kindly kind of divorced myself from him. When he started

1142
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: getting into the conspiracies and conniving and the plans. I

1143
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: would look at him and he would see me, and

1144
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: he would stop talking because he knew I was judging him,

1145
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: and he I would just leave and then they continue,

1146
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: and I was so happy for it because I didn't

1147
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: want to know. Yeah, no, I couldn't deal with it.

1148
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: Knock yourself out.

1149
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 2: What did you learn?

1150
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: Hmm, God, that's a tough one. Well. I do like

1151
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: to say that you tend to learn the hard way,

1152
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: and you tend to learn of what not to be.

1153
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like him, right, And so

1154
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: integrity has been a big issue. I mean, I mean,

1155
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: coming out of that group, we used to lie a lot,

1156
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: just about nothing, because you know, you could say, oh no, no, no,

1157
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: I put, I put this is this is sugar free.

1158
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: You can just lie. You just lie all the time.

1159
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And you would say I didn't. I didn't

1160
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: because there's no body. You have no body.

1161
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: I have no body for one.

1162
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, all that stuff. My lack of integrity. Integrity became

1163
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: like what it's integrity? I like to look it up.

1164
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: And you know, integrity is such a great word. It's

1165
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: not just like being honest and loyal or faithful or truthful.

1166
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: It's it's knowing who you are and and and and

1167
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: following the integrity of that person of what that person

1168
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: would do and what that person wouldn't do. And it's

1169
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: so I had to learn who I was and what

1170
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: was my integrity, like what was my boundaries which I

1171
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: didn't have. You know, I had no boundaries because being

1172
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: open was more more important than being closed. You'd ask

1173
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 1: me something like did I get turned off by spirituality?

1174
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: And then the resurgent I did, of course, And I

1175
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: had to go about You have to go about rediscovering

1176
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: it yourself in your own way, you know, not following

1177
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: anyone else's ideas or thoughts or patterns whatever. And I

1178
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: did that for many years. And also I had to

1179
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 1: learn how to take care of myself and be like

1180
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: self preserving. I had to learn how to pay taxes

1181
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: and you know, get into the world. I don't know

1182
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: what id, but I had to switch from being in

1183
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: a very selfless environment to being very selfish right, self

1184
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: care like my rent. You know, I never had that,

1185
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, besides the healing, and they say that when

1186
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: you get abused in a spiritual place in your in

1187
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: your in your heart so to speak, or in your whatever.

1188
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: I just for you guys, safe place. It's hard to

1189
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: go there if it's been traumatized. To heal yourself, like,

1190
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: that's kind of where you need to go to make good,

1191
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: and we couldn't go there because it was so polluted

1192
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 1: by him and everything we'd done for so long.

1193
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 3: Do you get a dope therapist to walk you through

1194
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 3: all this?

1195
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: Or I did get a psychologist. You know, a friend

1196
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: of mine who was in the group, who is on

1197
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: the periphery, was suicidal after this whole thing happened. I'm like, well,

1198
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: why is he suicidal? Why am I not suicidal? You know,

1199
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: because we should all be suicidal. And so she went

1200
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: to a therapist and she right away she said, what

1201
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: you're dealing with a narcissist, because he's how the narcissist

1202
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: damages you is you have your intuition right here in

1203
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: your heart right, your intuition tells you everything that you

1204
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: need to know, and your gut down here lower right,

1205
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: your gut chakra, and the narcissist they lie to you

1206
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: so much that you start to mistrust yourself that you

1207
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: cannot trust yourself. They lie right to your face and

1208
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: you're like, what do I know? So your intuition has

1209
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: been damaged, your antenna has been broken, and so she's like,

1210
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: you've been around a narcissist. That's so damaging. And when

1211
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: I heard that, I'm like, well, I must be really

1212
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: damaged and fucked up, which I believe, you know, we

1213
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: all are, And I go, I want to see her.

1214
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: Cauccherte knows my story because she's already he already started

1215
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: it with me. And so I went and saw her.

1216
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: In the first moment I saw her, I was like,

1217
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: she can't help me, really, why because well she was

1218
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: very Hollywood, very very Beverly Hill, was very gorgeous and

1219
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,919
Speaker 1: fake boobs and her lips were large, and she said

1220
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: I have a spiritual I'm like, she's not going to

1221
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: understand this. This is my language, She's not gonna have

1222
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: my language. I thought, well, will you came here to

1223
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: get a different point of view, not your same point

1224
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: of view. I wanted to get someone outside who studied it,

1225
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: maybe who might have a clinical point of view that

1226
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 1: might make my brain open up. After seeing her for

1227
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: a little bit, I go, you know, I'm really scared

1228
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: because I've been around this guy for so long, Like,

1229
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: am I a narcissis? Because didn't know what a narcissist was,

1230
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: because I thought it was just narcissistic, right, like vain, like, oh,

1231
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: it looks that pretty looking in a mirror. I thought, well,

1232
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: he's a narcissist that way. But what is a narcissis

1233
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: it's actually a genetic disease. Rights, it's an illness. They

1234
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: say they're missing a gene and she's like no, she goes,

1235
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: you're not a narcissist. A narcissist would never even ask that,

1236
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: They would never even self h to think they might

1237
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: be them great. I was like, oh good, because that's

1238
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: all I ever think. Oh my god, I don't remind

1239
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: myself at what drawing with me.

1240
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: A narcissist would never let another narcissist control their lives.

1241
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: Right right, there's like, we want narcissist in this. That's

1242
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: what we used to say after one narcissist around here him.

1243
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 3: Do you think Michelle watched the movie?

1244
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they had people in the audience of Sunday's

1245
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: recording it.

1246
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 3: Do you think he liked it because it's like about him?

1247
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: He liked the first half, Yeah, because he was so great.

1248
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 3: I would joke.

1249
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: I would joke, I go, he's going to tell his

1250
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: disciples he has Now, Well, you can watch the first

1251
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: half of the movie, but the rest is his lives, right.

1252
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: Did they disrupt the screening? No?

1253
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it was just quiet. They weren't. No,

1254
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: we didn't know they were there.

1255
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 2: So he's still active in Hawaii. He denies all allegations.

1256
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 2: By the way, how old does he know?

1257
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: He's old? He's d He's on grinder, you guys, no, wow,

1258
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: no scruff, No, those are gay apps. If you don't know,

1259
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: I hear. I've heard. I've heard from four or five

1260
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: different people that they've run into my teacher and on on. Yeah,

1261
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: I have images too bad. It's a podcast of the

1262
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: images he's using to show his face. It's not even him.

1263
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: He's like photoshopped in different body, different Yeah, talk about deception.

1264
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: Right here comes see me. Not even him. But he's

1265
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: find these guys and he has them come over and

1266
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: the last one I heard, I mean one people they

1267
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: play with him because they know who he is, and

1268
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 1: finally they're like, you're that guy from Alliell. He's gone.

1269
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1270
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: But the good thing about the film. So he had

1271
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: one guy who was a dancer come over to his

1272
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,959
Speaker 1: house and he went there with a girl, his friend,

1273
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: and they were there and he was kind of the

1274
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: guy said he was definitely spiritual. He knew who he was.

1275
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: He goes, he was definitely spiritual, saying a lot of

1276
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: spiritual things. And then he said, I'm about to have

1277
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: a dance class. Would you like to come watch? Because

1278
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,399
Speaker 1: he reels him in because he's really in a dance. Yeah.

1279
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 1: So he recruits him that way, and the girl he

1280
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: was with grabbed his arm and she said, no, we

1281
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,879
Speaker 1: have to go. I have a date. And they got

1282
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: him and left and she goes, that is the guy

1283
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: from oh yell, Oh my god. They went running.

1284
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: Oh god.

1285
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were like that close to getting like right in.

1286
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: There's what's dancing right, something free and flowing.

1287
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 3: What do you think? What do you feel about the

1288
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 3: people who stayed well, because there's people that you know

1289
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 3: from back in the day who are still with him

1290
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 3: in Hawaiian.

1291
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's almost like history repeating itself. So in

1292
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: the film, I talk about when when we all hear

1293
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: about the truth, it disrupts the beehive, right, and the

1294
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: beehive goes crazy. Fifty to fifty half the people I

1295
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: knew it, half the people I don't see it, right,

1296
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: And that happened in Hawaii. So when Hawaii came, he

1297
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't let people see the movie. Some people wanted to.

1298
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: It divided his group in half, just like in the film,

1299
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: same thing denial Protection. But the best thing about Narcissist,

1300
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: which you brought up earlier, is when you get to

1301
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: see him losing his temper and the paranoia comes out,

1302
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: and he's like, really, they started treating everyone really badly,

1303
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: and everyone starts seeing all of his colors not so

1304
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: on Lighton. He's just out for himself, and they're like whoa,

1305
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: And so he people who are around him, hook Line

1306
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: and Sinker left, people who were like my role, who

1307
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: are like the guys who would carry his pillows and

1308
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: open his doors and do every little minutia for him.

1309
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: They stayed around for a while and then they finally left,

1310
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: and I'd hear from a friend of mine who was

1311
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: a mutual friend. They say, like, this guy wented me

1312
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: to tell you thank you. He finally saw the film. Yeah.

1313
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: So it's like all this long process of getting themselves

1314
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: on tangles and I don't want to make them feel

1315
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to fuck them up and make them

1316
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: feel like their life was waste, you know, But there's

1317
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: no other way. To stop it otherwise than throw a

1318
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: big old rock in there.

1319
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: Well, you're having an impact, you're helping.

1320
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: People, that's you know. I was grateful to the guy

1321
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: who wrote the letter. We were all grateful that we

1322
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: got out of this. Like it was like a looking glass,

1323
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: like the mirror broke right right. So I knew I

1324
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: was doing the right thing, and I knew they were

1325
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: going to hate me. But someone said in one of

1326
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: my interviews, oh, so what was it like making this

1327
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: movie for like these hundred people who are with him?

1328
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: I was like, there are the hundred people I didn't

1329
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: make it for. They were the people who I thought

1330
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: would never see it. Yeah, they're the people who are

1331
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: not going to see it, even if they see it.

1332
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: I made it for all of us.

1333
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well it's a beautiful film film. I'm

1334
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: so glad you made it. It's amazing how much footage

1335
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 2: you had from the actual time. Also, like what a

1336
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: moment in time that you captured.

1337
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: It made it all come full circle for me, Like

1338
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 1: when I asked myself really before I made the movie,

1339
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: like why am I doing this? Like why do I

1340
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: want to do this project? Do I really want to

1341
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: go back in time? And look at all this and

1342
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: look at all this footage and go over it all again.

1343
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: And my answer to myself was, yes, will, because you've

1344
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: you've been fascinated by this from the very beginning. You've

1345
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: been filming it from the very beginning you thought it

1346
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: was you've never seen anything so beautiful. So now and

1347
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: you've been making movies this whole time for your group,

1348
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: saying how beautiful, how beautiful. You've been showing the beautiful parts.

1349
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: Now you're going to tell the whole story, and you're

1350
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: going to tell both sides of it, the holy and

1351
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: the hell. Yeah, you know, you didn't do that until now,

1352
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: And so that's why I made it.

1353
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 3: It's so good.

1354
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 2: It is so good. You're so awesome. Thank you so

1355
00:59:58,680 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 2: much for coming on.

1356
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 3: Everybody watch Holy Hell. I bought it off Amazon. It's amazed.

1357
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 2: It's also on Netflix.

1358
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 3: Oh well, you can watch it on netflild.

1359
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: On Netflix until September.

1360
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 2: Until September and.

1361
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: Your contract's over and then it's going to go.

1362
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 2: To him on.

1363
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you guys.

1364
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 2: All right, so Megan, tell us, what do you think

1365
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 2: would you join the Boodafield?

1366
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 3: I would? I would, indeed. I love thinking about just

1367
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 3: living with my friends and frolicking and rivers and believing

1368
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 3: in the present moment. It's very unfortunate what he did

1369
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 3: to his followers. I think that's awful. I am just

1370
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 3: saying I would probably not see it at first, and

1371
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 3: I would join. I absolutely think you would.

1372
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally.

1373
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 3: I think I might be halfway in it. Just after

1374
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 3: this conversation, I am zero in it. It's not my cold. No,

1375
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 3: I don't know what my kind of cult is. Maybe

1376
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 3: it's like maybe maybe it's like, yeah, the cold of science.

1377
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. Wow, all right. I am a uh

1378
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: Ula lola on Instagram O O h l A l

1379
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 2: O l A.

1380
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 3: And I'm Meghan Grandeur at m E A g A

1381
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 3: n g r A n g e R. Always remember

1382
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 3: to trust your gut, watch out for red flags, and

1383
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: never ever trust me.

1384
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: Bye. If you want to learn more about her procrementary,

1385
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: you go through Holy hellthdocumentary dot com. And if you

1386
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 2: want to follow Will Allen, his instagram is will Underscore

1387
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: A L L E N four O five