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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then Proudoro with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: This is the fastest show in politics, but we have

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Speaker 2: to keep obviously not only tabs on the market, but

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Speaker 2: the intersection of Washington and Wall Street. That's what makes

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Speaker 2: this show special. And we welcome you on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 2: on the satellite and on YouTube. The road show begins.

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Speaker 2: This is what happens coming off the debate, right, all

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Speaker 2: the pollsters go on the field and the candidates hit

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Speaker 2: the road. You could probably tell me where they're going

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Speaker 2: at this point if you listen to this broadcast. But

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris back on the road today. North Carolina is

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Speaker 2: where it's going to happen. Charlotte, Greensboro, Tim Walls in Michigan, Yes,

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Speaker 2: hello Grand Rapids. Doug Mhoff heading to Arizona, Nevada, Florida

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Speaker 2: the next couple of days, and of course the Trump

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Speaker 2: campaign is traveling as well. This is it. This is

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Speaker 2: the last big push right Donald Trump today in Tucson, Arizona,

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Speaker 2: where he will be focusing on Latino voters onto Nevada.

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Speaker 2: After that with an event on inflation and the economy

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Speaker 2: in Las Vegas on Friday. That's tomorrow, finally Friday. So

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Speaker 2: thanks for joining us here. This is a very important day.

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Speaker 2: I don't think enough people are talking about this. It

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Speaker 2: was supposed to happen last week. North Carolina, remember, was

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Speaker 2: going to send out the first batch of absentee ballots,

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Speaker 2: and because of the challenge from RFK Junior, that was delayed.

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Speaker 2: So we can tell you now of a straight face

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Speaker 2: that today voting begins and the prize goes to Alabama.

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Speaker 2: Somebody tell Rick Davis. Alabama wins the race here mailing

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Speaker 2: out the first absentee ballots this morning, overtaking North Carolina,

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Speaker 2: and there's a big one coming on Monday. That's where

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Speaker 2: we start with Laura Davison, Bloomberg Politics editor, driving our

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Speaker 2: coverage in the newsroom here in Washington. It's always great

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Speaker 2: to see you. This is important time here, particularly noting

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Speaker 2: the confusion that Donald Trump has brought to this matter.

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Speaker 2: This is an important strategy, right, get people to vote now,

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Speaker 2: even as he questions the veracity and legality of early voting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what both you know sides have realized sort of

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Speaker 3: at a party structure, maybe not necessarily in the Trump

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Speaker 3: campaign structure, is that if people vote now, it means

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Speaker 3: that you know, on election day they don't decide that,

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Speaker 3: you know, they don't really want to or the lines

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Speaker 3: are too long, or they have to work. If they

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Speaker 3: vote now, that's in the bag and then that vote

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Speaker 3: is solidified. So you know, in Alabama, the ballots are

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Speaker 3: going out. In North Carolina they should be going out soon, obviously,

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Speaker 3: a state that is now more in play. And in

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania on Monday, the first state and perhaps the most

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Speaker 3: important state that's huge, we'll start early voting, which means

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Speaker 3: that you know, people can go to the polls now.

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Speaker 3: And so if the candidates realize this that they have

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Speaker 3: to be convincing voters now. You can't really leave anything

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Speaker 3: on the table till isn't that run for it.

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Speaker 2: That's why this debate again was so important this week,

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Speaker 2: to think that some folks voted in North Carolina before

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Speaker 2: that happened, they didn't have a chance. Now everyone's seen

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Speaker 2: the debate. We got new numbers by the way, those

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Speaker 2: were preliminary ratings we gave you yesterday at fifty eight million.

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Speaker 2: Turns out, sixty seven million people watched that debate this week,

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Speaker 2: which is an overwhelming number and a lot more than

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Speaker 2: we saw in the first.

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Speaker 3: Debate, a lot more than we saw in the first debate,

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Speaker 3: a lot more than we saw, like almost three times

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Speaker 3: what we saw for the convention. So this is a

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Speaker 3: huge audience, perhaps the largest audience that either of them

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Speaker 3: are going to have. And then when you counsel with

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Speaker 3: the knock on effects of all of the clips, if

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Speaker 3: your social media foot feed looked anything like mine, it

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Speaker 3: was just full of all sorts of memes and moments

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Speaker 3: from the debate.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right as far as early voting goes down, these

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Speaker 2: people are armed with whatever they saw or wanted to

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Speaker 2: see on Tuesday night. Alabama is one thing. It's the

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Speaker 2: first and that's why we're making something out of it.

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Speaker 2: But voters there actual they have to have a reason

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Speaker 2: to vote by mail, such as being absent from the

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Speaker 2: county or working on election day. Some other states have

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Speaker 2: looser requirements. How do the campaigns target them so they

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Speaker 2: you really.

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Speaker 3: See the t travel schedule, you know it's all about

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania and North Carolina right now. You know, you see Harris,

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Speaker 3: she's in a North Carolina today, She'll be in Pensylvania tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Biden will be going on Monday, the day that voting

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Speaker 3: kicks off. Trump as well, has been really targeting those

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Speaker 3: early voting states. You see him out west, you know,

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Speaker 3: for the weekend. He's doing a bunch of fundraising, which

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Speaker 3: is also sort of a weak spot for him. Right now,

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Speaker 3: He's will be in California meeting with some big.

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Speaker 2: Ground game too though. Right it's door knockers, it's advertising,

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Speaker 2: it's telling people not everybody knows that this is on already.

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Speaker 3: And we've started to see some of the advertising from

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Speaker 3: the super PACs. Those outside groups really pick up. So

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Speaker 3: like Elon Musk's pack is hiring doorknocker specifically in North

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Speaker 3: Carolina and Michigan, which is interesting that they see sort

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Speaker 3: of weak spots there as well as advertising, you know,

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Speaker 3: specifically to young men, another kind of area where you

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Speaker 3: see that you know, sort of the soccer moms that

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Speaker 3: were the sort of swing vote back a couple cycles ago.

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Speaker 3: Now the Trump campaign is looking at at young men.

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Speaker 2: I'm asking everybody this you can give me a yes

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Speaker 2: or no if you want. Is there going to be

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Speaker 2: another debate?

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't bet on it. There will be a vice

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Speaker 3: residential debate.

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Speaker 2: I thought about that answer. Sounds like a no on.

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Speaker 3: The you know, uh, the Trump has been all over

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Speaker 3: the board. Remember he you know, he didn't want to

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Speaker 3: have this first debate. Then it did that he didn't.

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Speaker 3: These things can change on time, but right now it

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Speaker 3: seems that he is down on another debate.

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Speaker 2: Interesting as always to spend time with Laura Davison. Great

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Speaker 2: work this week on the debate and always covering this campaign.

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Speaker 2: Where are we at here? We're under sixty days, right,

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Speaker 2: we're getting closed fifty five. Wow, Laura Davison is the

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Speaker 2: one who fifty three, says producer James I was told

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Speaker 2: there'd be no math Bloomberg Politics contributor, Thank you and

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Speaker 2: editor Laura Davison. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. As we

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Speaker 2: turn our attention, i'd say to what's happening in Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: But it's really here in Washington where we have a

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Speaker 2: real argument, a concerted debate underway.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: We brushed up on this yesterday about what to do

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Speaker 2: with Western provided and specifically US provided weapons in Ukraine

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Speaker 2: should they be used offensively against Russia outside of the

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Speaker 2: Curse region where we've already seen across border incursion. It's

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Speaker 2: causing a split inside the Republican Party, as Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: who wouldn't even say the other night if you wanted

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Speaker 2: Ukraine to win this war, finds himself at odds with

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Speaker 2: a lot of hawks here in Washington, Michael McCall among them,

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Speaker 2: Mike Rodgers, who are calling for this to happen. A

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Speaker 2: Democrat named Ben Cardon is doing the same. Obviously very

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Speaker 2: important here when we talk about the Foreign Relations Committee

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Speaker 2: in the Senate, we wanted to talk to an authority

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Speaker 2: about this important moment because this could be a change

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Speaker 2: in the war. Kelly Grico is back with US senior

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Speaker 2: fellow at the Stimpson Center's Reimagining US Grand Strategy program.

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Speaker 2: When we talk strategy, we call Kelly and it's great

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Speaker 2: to see you here. Kelly. How important and we're told

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Speaker 2: by the way that a decision could be imminent here

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Speaker 2: at least that's what the whisper is in Washington. How

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Speaker 2: important would be that change in strategy to loosen these restrictions?

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Speaker 4: First, thank you for having me, I'm afraid I don't

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Speaker 4: think this decision will actually have, you know, a real

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Speaker 4: effect on the battlefield. I think it will be a

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Speaker 4: short window if they're given these kinds of permissions that

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Speaker 4: it will make a difference. But again, I think that

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Speaker 4: anyone who is expecting that taking you know, the leashes

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Speaker 4: off and allowing the Ukrainians to engage in longery strike

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Speaker 4: is fundamentally going to change the trajectory of the war

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Speaker 4: is going to be disappointed.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know you're going to tell me why. Because

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Speaker 2: Ukraine says they can start knocking down these MiGs that

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Speaker 2: carry the big missiles the minute they take off if

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Speaker 2: they're allowed to.

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Speaker 4: Kelly, yes, So you know, the Ukrainians have been clear

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Speaker 4: about what they want to target, which is air bases

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Speaker 4: and also logistics hubs. The problem though for Ukraine is

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Speaker 4: that Russia is very large, and so yes, the Russians

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Speaker 4: can pull back their aircraft, they can pull their aircraft

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Speaker 4: in particular further back. But to really have an effect,

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Speaker 4: you know, and really degrade Russian capabilities, we would need

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Speaker 4: to be able supplying the Ukrainians with really large numbers

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Speaker 4: of missiles. So whether that's atackums or something like DASMS

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Speaker 4: and certainly an INTACTMS.

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Speaker 5: We don't have the numbers for this kind of large campaign.

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Speaker 4: And for them to use a missile called JASM, which

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Speaker 4: is a surface air to surface missile with their sixteens,

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Speaker 4: they would have to fly their sixteens increasingly into Russian

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Speaker 4: air space where they would be very vulnerable to air defenses.

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Speaker 2: So this is not so much a matter of permission,

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Speaker 2: it's having the actual hardware to make it dent, Kelly,

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it is about permission in the sense

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Speaker 4: that the Ukrainians have respected the US decision, you know,

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Speaker 4: that not to use certain things on Russian territory, and

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Speaker 4: so they definitely want those permissions. But I think when

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Speaker 4: we're looking at the permissions, we should ask ourselves what

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Speaker 4: are the actual military benefits here as we weigh that

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Speaker 4: in comparison to sort of the escalatory risks, And in

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Speaker 4: my I would just argue that I don't think that

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Speaker 4: the benefits are significant enough to necessarily justify the escalatory risks.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've had a way of being right so far

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Speaker 2: in this conflict, Kelly, and I'm sure that you watched

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Speaker 2: the debate along with the rest of US the other night.

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Speaker 2: Ukraine did play a bit of a role in the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump was asked twice I refer to this if

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Speaker 2: he wanted Ukraine to win the war. Let's go back

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Speaker 2: to Tuesday night in Philadelphia. Here's how it went. Do

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Speaker 2: you want Ukraine to win this war?

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Speaker 6: I want the war to stop. I want to save

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Speaker 6: lives that are being uselessly, people being killed by the millions.

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Speaker 6: It's the millions. It's so much worse than the numbers

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Speaker 6: that you're getting, which you are fake numbers. Look, we're

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Speaker 6: in for two hundred and fifty billion or more because

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Speaker 6: they don't ask Europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary

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Speaker 6: to getting this thing done.

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Speaker 2: Than we are. Okay, that said, Kelly, what would a

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Speaker 2: Trump two point oh mean for this question that we're

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Speaker 2: asking today, These restrictions would remain in place.

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Speaker 4: Right, I would think they certainly would. I think the

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Speaker 4: larger question, though, is, you know, this question of victory.

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Speaker 4: What does victory look like in Ukraine? You know, I think,

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Speaker 4: at least in the West, we often think of that

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Speaker 4: perhaps too much, in terms of military victory, that you

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Speaker 4: win by imposing, you know, a complete victory on your

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Speaker 4: adversary and that's not going to happen for Ukraine. But

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Speaker 4: you can't achieve a political victory, you know, so that

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Speaker 4: at the negotiating table, that it's able to keep its

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Speaker 4: country or largely keep its country intact. And I think

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Speaker 4: the military realities are suggesting that both parties are going

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Speaker 4: to need to head at some point to a negotiating table.

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Speaker 2: You say, at some point, and President Zelenski would say,

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Speaker 2: that's why I need these restrictions to come off. We

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Speaker 2: need leverage, we need to make a dent before we

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Speaker 2: sit down to negotiate. If I can even use that

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Speaker 2: word with Vladimir Putin, does he have a point?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean I understand this idea that he wants

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Speaker 4: to negotiate from a position of strength. That's certainly true.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'll be I'll just say that I'm very actually,

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Speaker 4: very concerned about Ukraine in military position right now.

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Speaker 5: You know, I think the Kursk offensive.

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Speaker 4: Has sent a lot of manpower and equipment to this

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Speaker 4: to Kirsk, and we now know that the Russians are

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Speaker 4: engaged in a conor offensive to try to take it back.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time that they're now launching this

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Speaker 4: counter offensive. They're making gains in the east in Donbas,

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Speaker 4: and the Ukraine's a position is quite fragile there at

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Speaker 4: the moment, and so, you know, I think there's real

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Speaker 4: concerns about Ukraine's ability to sustain the war at this moment,

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Speaker 4: and I actually think that might be one of the reasons,

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Speaker 4: you know, that the Bide administration is even entertaining this

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Speaker 4: idea of long range strike because we've tended to escalate

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Speaker 4: at these moments when we fear Ukraine is losing, and so,

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Speaker 4: you know, rather than trying to achieve a real victory,

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Speaker 4: I think for.

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Speaker 5: Ukraine on a military sense, we need to.

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Speaker 4: Figure out what's the way to prevent a Russian military victory,

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Speaker 4: and that's probably really strengthening defensive positions.

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Speaker 2: Great insights from Kelly Grico, and like to ask you

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Speaker 2: about what's happening in the Middle East, Kelly, with your

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Speaker 2: expertise here in military strategy. It's an important headline. They're

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Speaker 2: sending the Teddy Roosevelt home. This is the USS Theodore

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Speaker 2: Roosevelt Aircraft Carrier Strike Group. It was a big deal

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Speaker 2: and a rare move to have two of them steaming

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Speaker 2: their way toward the Middle East. When a retaliatory strike

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Speaker 2: by Iran was anticipated the USS Abraham Lincoln still there,

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Speaker 2: What does this tell you when we peel off an

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Speaker 2: entire carrier strike group, has the threat level diminished?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean I would say that's certainly with a

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Speaker 4: signal that's being sent, there's that there must be a

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Speaker 4: feeling in the administration, given whatever intelligence they have to

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Speaker 4: suggest that a strike is not imminent. I think it's

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Speaker 4: quite remarkable, frankly, that we haven't seen an Iranian attack.

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Speaker 4: It's clear that the Iranians, on their part, have been

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Speaker 4: careful about escalation, and it seems that they have at

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Speaker 4: least for the moment, decided not to proceed with some

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Speaker 4: kind of major escalatory act. Obviously, that's very good news

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Speaker 4: for the Middle East and for all of us.

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Speaker 2: We were asking in the newsroom if this might be

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Speaker 2: a part of the negotiating process, if this was an ask,

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Speaker 2: for instance, as part of ceasefire negotiations.

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Speaker 5: Wow, that's a really good question. You know, it's possible.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I can't imagine that is necessarily something that

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Speaker 4: you know, Hamas is particularly as much interested in, but

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Speaker 4: of course their Iranian backers may have asked for that

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Speaker 4: and it may be some kind.

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Speaker 5: Of negotiation, an official negotiation.

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Speaker 4: With the Iranians, and then the Iranians would put more

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Speaker 4: pressure on Hamas to accept some kind of ceasefire terms.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. I always love talking to you, Kelly. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for joining us, Skelly grecotiating some light on what is

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Speaker 2: happening in two regions, two theaters of war that the

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Speaker 2: US is involved in, either directly or indirectly. And we'll

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Speaker 2: let you know if there is news and a break

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Speaker 2: on the restrictions that we're talking about here. This is

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Speaker 2: happening now that lawmakers are back in Washington, in the

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Speaker 2: wake of the debate that we just played a snippet

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Speaker 2: for you there. The calls are growing louder among certain

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Speaker 2: members of the Republican conference in the House that could

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Speaker 2: unlock something here. We'll let you know what happens with that.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

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Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

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Speaker 1: royd Otto with a Bloomberg Business app. You can also

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Speaker 2: You're in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew on balance of power

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Speaker 2: with politics in mind, but we want to stick with

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Speaker 2: the intersection of politics and the economy because you cannot

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Speaker 2: have one without the other. And an important conversation that

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Speaker 2: we can bring you today at an important event that's

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Speaker 2: underway right now in Washington. The Congressional Black Caucus is

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Speaker 2: having its legislative conference, just a couple of blocks away

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Speaker 2: from where I'm sitting in Nicole Austin. Hillary is the

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Speaker 2: president and CEO of the CBC Foundation, and she's with

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Speaker 2: us now on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Nicole, thank you

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Speaker 2: for joining us. We've been spending time talking about kitchen

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Speaker 2: table stuff. As people like to say, in the world

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Speaker 2: of politics, prices, the strength of the job market, and

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Speaker 2: the availability of housing. All of these are very important

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Speaker 2: issues for your members and of course their constituents. As

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Speaker 2: they say, prices don't have d's or r's attached to them.

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Speaker 2: This is obviously a big issue for people no matter

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Speaker 2: where they live. And Donald Trump is telling a story

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Speaker 2: now that he says is more attractive to black voters

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Speaker 2: that he did more for black Americans when he was

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Speaker 2: in office than Democrats have been able to do in

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Speaker 2: lifting them up, finding opportunity, increasing wages. How do you

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Speaker 2: see it?

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Speaker 7: First of all, I'd like to thank you for having

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Speaker 7: us on the show today. Look, the Annual Legislative Conference

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Speaker 7: is fifty three years old. This is our fifty third

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Speaker 7: annual conference, and this is an opportunity for all of

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Speaker 7: Black America, and in fact all of America to come

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Speaker 7: together and talk about those issues that are most salient

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Speaker 7: to the Black community. And we know that issues that

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Speaker 7: impact the Black community impact all of America. All of

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Speaker 7: those issues right now, economics, closing the Black wealth gap,

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Speaker 7: dealing with disparities, housing, all of those issues are the

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Speaker 7: most prescient issues right now for Black America. This is

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Speaker 7: a time for everyday citizens to come to our conference,

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Speaker 7: to stand next two members of Congress, to hear from

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Speaker 7: them in panel discussions, to ask them questions, to stop

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Speaker 7: them in the hallways, to tell them what's going on

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Speaker 7: in their own communities.

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Speaker 8: And that's why we exist.

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Speaker 7: That's why we do this conference because we believe that

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Speaker 7: every individual person should be empowered to talk about what

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Speaker 7: is happening in their communities and to impact and be

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Speaker 7: empowered by their own communities and by the work that

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Speaker 7: they are doing so. Again, as you said, I love

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Speaker 7: that you said, this is not about whether you're an RD,

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Speaker 7: whether you're.

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Speaker 8: Purple, green, blue, or yellow.

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Speaker 7: This is about individuals coming together, having an opportunity to

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Speaker 7: hear from their elected officials and having an opportunity to

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Speaker 7: question them, but also make recommendations about what they want

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Speaker 7: to see, the kinds of changes they want to see

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Speaker 7: in their own backyards.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a productive conversation, and I'd like to get

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Speaker 2: specific with you about legislative priorities here. But knowing that

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Speaker 2: you were at a watch party, a CBC watch party,

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Speaker 2: looking at that debate on Tuesday, did either candidate bring

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Speaker 2: plans that resonate with black voters and the people you're

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Speaker 2: talking to today.

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Speaker 7: We know I can't speak for all black voters. You know,

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Speaker 7: the black community is not monolithic. What I can say

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Speaker 7: is that both candidates spoke to issues that are of

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Speaker 7: concern to the Black community and again that are of

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Speaker 7: concern to Americans writ large. They talked about the economy,

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Speaker 7: they talked about immigration, they talked about housing, they talked

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Speaker 7: about education, artificial intelligence, all of those things that to

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Speaker 7: everyday average Americans is going to impact how they live breede, eat, sleep,

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Speaker 7: how they take care of their families, how they take

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Speaker 7: care of their communities. I think those were issues that

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Speaker 7: everyone in this country has an obligation to be focused on,

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Speaker 7: has an obligation to be thinking critically about, and has

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Speaker 7: an obligation to them think thoughtfully about as they go

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Speaker 7: into the ballot box in November and make their choices,

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Speaker 7: their personal choices that they think are going to be

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Speaker 7: most beneficial to them and their families.

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Speaker 2: Well, you just said a lot there, and I find

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Speaker 2: it interesting that we're talking about AI as part of

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Speaker 2: this conversation as well. Maybe AI is part of the

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Speaker 2: kitchen table conversation, Nicole, You tell me because Washington's trying

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Speaker 2: to get its arms around this technology right now, and

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Speaker 2: there is a civil rights aspect to this, isn't there?

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Speaker 8: Yes?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, And AI is something we're talking about here at

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Speaker 7: the Annual Legislative Conference. You know, we have over one

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Speaker 7: hundred sessions and some of those sessions are specifically looking

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Speaker 7: at AI.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 7: The thing that's interesting about AI is and like all technology,

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Speaker 7: it is often created to ensure a benefit to all

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Speaker 7: of us, but there are often unintended consequences, and particularly

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Speaker 7: when we're talking about technology that can really get into

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Speaker 7: our hearts and homes, that has the ability to survey

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Speaker 7: our movements.

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Speaker 8: And in fact to help create our thoughts. That's something

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Speaker 8: that we all should be concerned about.

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Speaker 7: And we know that AI is seen in every aspect

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Speaker 7: in every crucial system of our country, whether we're talking

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Speaker 7: about our monetary system, whether we're talking about our voting system,

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Speaker 7: whether we're talking about how we do our work each

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Speaker 7: and every day. So it's incumbent upon us, as the

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Speaker 7: Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and the members of the CBC

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Speaker 7: that are leaders here in the country to talk about

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Speaker 7: those issues and to talk about what's going to impact

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Speaker 7: and change how people live each and every day, and

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Speaker 7: how can they ensure that their rights are protected, how

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Speaker 7: can they ensure.

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Speaker 8: That their voices are heard? And AI is certainly at

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Speaker 8: the heart of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, Nicole, this is a big deal to our viewers

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Speaker 2: and listeners, many of whom are investing a good deal

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Speaker 2: of capital in this technology right now and trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out if there will be a regulatory answer to

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Speaker 2: what has been incredibly fast growth here. Will the CBC

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Speaker 2: make this a priority in this Congress?

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Speaker 7: You know, you'd have to talk to the individual members themselves.

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Speaker 7: The individual individual members, of course, have their own legislative agendas,

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Speaker 7: and as a body, they have the legislative agenda. Our

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Speaker 7: work with the CBC is to provide policy and research

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Speaker 7: information and to make recommendations about what we are learning,

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Speaker 7: what our fellows and researchers are developing, and it's then

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Speaker 7: for them to assess it and be thoughtful then about

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Speaker 7: the legislative decisions and recommendations they are making.

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Speaker 8: So I would urge you and.

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Speaker 7: Encourage you, and I'm sure they would want to talk

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Speaker 7: to you about how they are centering AI and how

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Speaker 7: they are dealing with it in terms of how they're

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Speaker 7: responding to and being available to their constituents around that issue.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I'm glad to say that we're in conversation

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Speaker 2: with many of your members on a regular basis here

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Speaker 2: on Bloomberg. Nicole, getting a sense of what else is

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Speaker 2: important as we move forward here with the idea that

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Speaker 2: the housing market is driving a lot of the economic

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Speaker 2: challenges for Americans. Right now, you said something important. You're right,

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Speaker 2: the black voter is not a monolith. But this again

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Speaker 2: is an issue that impacts everybody, whether you're a black

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Speaker 2: white Latino voter. Cracking the housing market is something that

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Speaker 2: many young voters think is impossible, that they will never

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Speaker 2: realize this. Are any of the proposals on the table

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Speaker 2: that you're hearing about at the conference or on the

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Speaker 2: campaign trail possibly able to unlock that?

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Speaker 7: Well, I will tell you I am hearing lots of

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Speaker 7: conversations about one centering that as a priority issue, because

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Speaker 7: you're absolutely right, young people and everyone in between is

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Speaker 7: concerned about how can they afford to put a roof

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Speaker 7: over the heads of their families, how can they buy

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Speaker 7: into the American dream? And we know that home ownership

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Speaker 7: is a way that we pass on generational wealth, and

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Speaker 7: that is something that is particularly important to the black community,

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Speaker 7: especially since we know based on data that it's been

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Speaker 7: very difficult for the black community to pass on similar

438
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 7: levels of wealth generational wealth to their families. So we

439
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 7: are having conversations about that, and we are One of

440
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 7: the things that we're doing is we're listening. This conference

441
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 7: is not just about hearing from the elected leaders. It's

442
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 7: about creating a space in a forum where voters, where

443
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 7: everyday average citizens can be heard. That's something that is rare,

444
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 7: you know, when we have a town hall discussion like

445
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 7: we just did this morning.

446
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 8: We had a town hall discussion.

447
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 7: It was to a two part discussion, first where we

448
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 7: talked about democracy and the issues that are at state

449
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 7: in our democracy, and then we had a second panel

450
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 7: on black wealth and how we close the black wealth gap.

451
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 7: One of the reasons we have a town halls because

452
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 7: a town hall concept is about not only sharing information,

453
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 7: but about listening. One of the biggest things that leaders

454
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 7: and elected officials can do is listen to what their

455
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 7: constituents and community members are saying is important to them,

456
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 7: what they're saying about, what their needs are, and what

457
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 7: kinds of changes they want to see. So our conference

458
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 7: is unique in that way, and we see that as

459
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 7: our obligation. See it as our obligation to provide a

460
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 7: forum for for leaders UH to to stand up and

461
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 7: and and and and speak to the constituents and community members.

462
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 7: But we also see it as a place where those

463
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 7: community members can stop legislators right here in our hallway.

464
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 7: If you were here with me now, you would see

465
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 7: there are people milling about all over the Washington's Invention Center.

466
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 7: You can see members that are going to pass you

467
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 7: in the hallway. You have the opportunity to stop them

468
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 7: and say, hey, you know, miss legislator or mister legislator,

469
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 7: here's what I'm concerned about in my community. Here's what

470
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 7: I'd like you to do, or here's a thought that

471
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 7: I have about something that we are already engaged in

472
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 7: as advocates and grassroots workers in our community.

473
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 8: That's the beauty of this conference.

474
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 7: And and again I think that's it's that's what's going

475
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 7: to help us create real movement and change. It's that

476
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 7: that that dance, that delicate dance that has to be

477
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 7: done between leaders, uh, not only doing but also being

478
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 7: listeners and being empathetic and thoughtful.

479
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: Nicole, I only have a minute left, and I want

480
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: to tap your expertise or your expertise on election security.

481
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: Something important happened yesterday. The January sixth certification of the

482
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: election has been declared a national special security event. We

483
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: will have voted by then. How worried are you about

484
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 2: security in the next two months?

485
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 7: You know, I will tell you. We do work here

486
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 7: at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation on voting. And I've

487
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 7: spent my career as a civil and human rights lawyer,

488
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 7: specializing in and working on voting. I will tell you

489
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 7: that we have one of the most secure voting systems

490
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 7: in this country. There are so many experts around the country,

491
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 7: and our research shows that who work every day to

492
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 7: ensure that our systems are working, that they are fair

493
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 7: and free, and that they're equitable.

494
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 8: And I believe in those systems.

495
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 7: I think we all should, and I think we should

496
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 7: trust in what those experts are doing and know that

497
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 7: they have in.

498
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 8: Touch with us.

499
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: End of scene. There, Nicole Austin Hillary from the Congressional

500
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: Black Caucus Foundation On Bloomberg.

501
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

502
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

503
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: Rounoro with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

504
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

505
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us. Kaylee Lines is off today

506
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: as we bring you our panel once again with our

507
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 2: eyes on the road like Thelma and Louise, Rick Davis

508
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: and Kristen Hahn heading for North Carolina, while Kamala Harris

509
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: is at least this will not be a surprise coming

510
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 2: off the debate to see where everyone's going. VP Harris

511
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 2: Charlotte and Greensboro today. Tim Walls, Grand Rapids, Michigan. The

512
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: map's not changing, maybe as much as some would suggest,

513
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: at least with regard to priorities. Here Doug M. Hoff Arizona, Nevada,

514
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 2: Florida the next two days. And Donald Trump's hitting the

515
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: road as well, talking to supporters today, Tucson, Arizona. Yes,

516
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: another swing state. He'll be in Nevada tomorrow speaking in

517
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: Las Vegas. Rick Davis, of course, partner at Stone Court,

518
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: Capitol Republican strategist and Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined by Kristin Han,

519
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: democratic strategist from Rock Solutions. Great to see you both here. Kristin,

520
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 2: do you like the sound of this road show? We

521
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: can start with the Harris campaign because there's been a

522
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: lot of talk about the Sun Belt, and she is

523
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 2: in North Carolina today with NBC News reporting a new

524
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: batch twenty thousand new volunteers signing up there since the debate.

525
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: Pretty remarkable numbers. As she zeros in on North Carolina.

526
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: Tim Walls in Michigan, is it as simple as this,

527
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 2: you keep going to the same seven states.

528
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 9: I think you have to, and I think she's smart

529
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 9: to go to North Carolina This is a state that

530
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 9: wasn't necessarily in play when President Biden was running for reelection,

531
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 9: So spending time there is smart. But yes, I think,

532
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 9: you know, it's unfortunate, but this race is going to

533
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 9: come down to these these swing states, and you know,

534
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 9: I think as well as you did during the debate,

535
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 9: I think the campaign will tell you that it's still

536
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 9: a very very very tight race. And really hunkering down

537
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 9: in these states, making sure that we have the votes,

538
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 9: making sure that the ground game, which has been you know,

539
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 9: been developed over many many many months, is at its

540
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 9: full its peak, will be essential to winning this election

541
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 9: because you know, I don't think one debate necessarily changes

542
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 9: things as as as far as you know, it's not

543
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 9: going to be a landslide. And we need to be

544
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 9: in all of these states pretty regularly. And it's great

545
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 9: that we have so many people and so many sargates

546
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 9: that can be doing events all at once.

547
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Rick, is this the travel discipline that you would

548
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: be showing trying to reach the voters in these seven states?

549
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: Oh for sure.

550
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 10: I mean I think now the priority on fundraising going

551
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 10: to places like New York and California where the donors

552
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 10: are is much much less important than going where the

553
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 10: votes are. And in fact, I'm really surprised Donald Trump's

554
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 10: going to spend any time in California. You're not there

555
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 10: looking for votes, you're there looking for money. And it

556
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 10: may be a sign that they're feeling a little bit

557
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 10: less competitive financially than they need to be in these states,

558
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 10: and so they're going around to pick up some.

559
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: Extra cash along the way.

560
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 10: But the other thing I think that's really interesting is,

561
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 10: you know, there's quite a contention of Harris Sergis out

562
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 10: there that are, you know, making good waves in the

563
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 10: swing states. And I think it's a real handicap for

564
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 10: Trump not to have have his wife out there campaigning

565
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 10: for him. I mean, she's nowhere to be seen in

566
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 10: this campaign from start to finish. She's not raising money

567
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 10: for him. Why can't she go to California? Let him

568
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 10: go to North Carolina or someplace like that. And then

569
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 10: they have vans basically shadowing Harris. You know, we call

570
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 10: it bracketing. You know, he goes to the states right

571
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 10: before her, right after her, and right now he's shadowing

572
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 10: her in these states. And that is more about her

573
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 10: strategy than it is about their strategy. So in a

574
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 10: campaign where it's all about one person, that works great,

575
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 10: maybe you know, when in primaries and that kind of thing,

576
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 10: but you want as many, you know, people out there

577
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 10: hammering away in these states as you can for the

578
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 10: next fifty five days. And I just this looks like

579
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 10: to me that Trump campaigns getting out gunned.

580
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: Well, this is interesting. So I think we've established the

581
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: rationale the seven swing states. So kristin Channel four in

582
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: New York says Donald Trump will be holding a rally

583
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: on Long Island on Wednesday. What's he doing there?

584
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 9: I don't know, And I don't know what jd Vance

585
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 9: is doing there. Like Rick said, you know, he's there

586
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 9: for a few fundraisers. So, you know, it seems like

587
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 9: they're a little off. I mean, Trump has said, you know,

588
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 9: I think California is in play, which is just ridiculous

589
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 9: on the face of it. So I'm not sure exactly

590
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 9: what their camp strategy is. I can't really speak to it,

591
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 9: but I do know that the Harris Walt's campaign knows

592
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 9: exactly what they're doing going around to all these states.

593
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 9: And like Walt said, you know, we can sleep when

594
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 9: we're dead because there's so much work to be done.

595
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 9: I think Trump doesn't think that he has to do

596
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 9: the same things that normal candidates have to do. I mean,

597
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 9: he said I don't even have to campaign to win,

598
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 9: and I hope, certainly hope that's not true, because it

599
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 9: really is the difference, particularly in states like Pennsylvania. He

600
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 9: the difference ten thousand votes or less and the campaigns

601
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 9: on the line. So you know, maybe he's going to

602
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 9: places where he feels comfortable.

603
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: I want to get into the campaign apparatus with both

604
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: of you and Rick inside the Trump campaign. The reports

605
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: that are emerging following the debate, in which he said

606
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: a number of things that the campaign surely did not

607
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: prepare him to say. When we consider the influence of

608
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: Chris las Sevida, Susan Wiles, he held a war room,

609
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: as it's being referred to and reporting by Axios, with

610
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: a number of influencers so called who he has surrounded

611
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: himself by, including the guy behind Pizzagate, the conspiracy theory,

612
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: and anti transactivist I've never heard of. Also Laura Lumer,

613
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: who of course joined him at Ground zero yesterday and

614
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: believes that nine to eleven was an inside job and

615
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: spent the last couple of days promoting these ideas that

616
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio were eating people's pets. That

617
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: actually came out of his mouth. Of course, during the debate,

618
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: you have dealt with challenging candidates, Rick, and I wonder

619
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: what happens inside a campaign when you've lost the direct

620
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: control over the message from your candidate.

621
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, and this is all being facilitated by Donald Trump himself.

622
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 10: I mean, what's interesting about this is this Trump versus

623
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 10: his campaign. Normally, the camp PA has issues inside direction, strategy,

624
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 10: what kind of ads we ought to be, you know,

625
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 10: posting up how much money do we want to put

626
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 10: in these states? And that's a healthy, lively debate that

627
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 10: you know, sometimes gets bogged down, but otherwise is what

628
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 10: every presidential campaign goes through. What's happened with the Trump

629
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 10: campaign is he's kind of gone rogue on his own campaign.

630
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 10: I mean, the idea of having Laura Lumer on the

631
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 10: plane talking to him about topics going into the presidential

632
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 10: debate I had to have driven Chris Losovita and Susie

633
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 10: Wilds crazy. I mean, it's bad enough that Trump won't

634
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 10: sit for debate prep, but to have someone chirping in

635
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 10: his ear right before he goes on the stage about

636
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 10: Haitian immigrants eating dogs and cats. No wonder he talked

637
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 10: about it. And by the way, that's his whole mo.

638
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 10: It's the last person in his ear and that's what

639
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 10: comes out of his mouth. So yeah, I mean, it's

640
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 10: a it's a real struggle, and at a time when

641
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 10: for performance matters, right and the debate performance matters. What

642
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 10: he says on the stop now matters, and in addition

643
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 10: to where he goes and what kind of events he's having,

644
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 10: And so I really do think we've got a rogue situation.

645
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 10: We've had it since his speech at the convention where

646
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 10: he decided to go off script and do his own thing,

647
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 10: and honestly, ever since then, you know, it was kind

648
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 10: of the height of his campaign and it's only been

649
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 10: kind of dribbling down from.

650
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: There, Kristen. Even Marjorie Taylor Green is calling out Laura

651
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: Lumer on Twitter. It's a pretty ugly sweet that I

652
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: will not read on the air that Marjorie Taylor Green

653
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: retweeted called appalling and extremely racist, which might give you

654
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: a sense of where we are on this particular note.

655
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: Is it the campaign's job? Is it not the campaign's

656
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: job to protect the candidate from people like this.

657
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't think that they can. I mean,

658
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 9: you're looking at Lauren Bobert. I saw that and it

659
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 9: was kind of shocking that somebody like her would would

660
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 9: go against him. But I think the campaign, the campaign

661
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 9: can only do so much with personalities like that. And

662
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 9: I think going back to what we were talking about

663
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 9: earlier with the with the you know, productive surrogates, and

664
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 9: that's where the Harris Balts campaign is really able to

665
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 9: cover a lot of these states. You know, the campaign,

666
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 9: You've got Trump who's on the stump saying, you know,

667
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 9: I should I go personal and everybody says yes, and

668
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 9: he goes, great, I'm gonna fire all of my campaign consultants.

669
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 9: I mean, he clearly doesn't listen to any of them.

670
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 9: He doesn't care what they have to say. That's the

671
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 9: way it was the first time around. But you know,

672
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 9: if the Democrats can really hit the ground and really

673
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 9: put in the work and appeal to these voters in

674
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 9: the middle who Trump clearly doesn't think he needs to

675
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 9: win the election, you know, then I think that will

676
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 9: ultimately be successful.

677
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rick, question from a terminal user, what's the Republic

678
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: encounter if there is one, I will insert here to

679
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: Democrats having Taylor Swift pushing eighteen to twenty five year

680
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: olds to vote with an actual link to register in

681
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: her Instagram story.

682
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough stuff.

683
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 10: We had a lot of a lot of celebrities endorsing

684
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 10: Barack Obama when we ran John McCain against him in

685
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 10: two thousand and eight, and it's it's look, I mean,

686
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 10: part of what you got to talk about is she's

687
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 10: taking upon herself all these you know, crazy liberal ethics

688
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 10: that exist in Hollywood, and she's become the Hollywood candidate.

689
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 10: We called Barack Obama celebrity. We didn't think that was

690
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 10: a good thing for him. And so there is a

691
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 10: way to push back. And you are defined by the

692
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 10: people who endorse you. So everyone thinks, wow, you know,

693
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 10: this is a great endorsement, but there are going to

694
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 10: be people who don't like well maybe not in the

695
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 10: Taylor Swift's case, but other endorsements, and so yeah, but

696
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 10: like it's a bombshell hard to deal with and it's

697
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 10: almost like your wasting your breath even getting into the discussion.

698
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 10: So it's Taylor Swift versus Kid Rock I guess, Kristin,

699
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 10: do we have a battle of the bands.

700
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 9: I don't think there's much of a battle there.

701
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: I would totally agree with Rick, you know.

702
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 9: On the celebrity endorsements. I always kind of kind of

703
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 9: cringe a little bit every once in a while because Democrats,

704
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 9: you know, we've always been painted as like the Hollywood

705
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 9: out of touch, you know, candidate. But I think I

706
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 9: put the Swifties all on their same their own, their

707
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 9: own space, because also, you know, one of the big

708
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 9: things Democrats are trying to do is outreach to younger people,

709
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 9: and that's something I think she can really help with.

710
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: The link is in the post for crying out loud. Hey, Kristin,

711
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: it's great to see you. Kristin Han Rock Solutions, Democratic

712
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: strategist and of course Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor partner

713
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: at Stone Court Capital. A great conversation as always, Leon

714
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: Panetta is coming in next. On the Fastest show in Politics.

715
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

716
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: You're listening to the bloom Balance of Power podcast kens

717
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and enroun

718
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen

719
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

720
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

721
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us on the Thursday edition as

722
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: we stand by for news on Ukraine. This is important.

723
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: It will likely happen before we ever get down to

724
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: a matter of funding the government. As Bloomberg reports, a

725
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: decision on Ukraine's request to use Western provided US provided

726
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: weapons offensively against Russia is unlikely to come before the

727
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: UN meeting that we're standing by four in New York,

728
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: scheduled for September twenty two and twenty three, but President

729
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: Biden may weigh in on a potential policy shift sooner

730
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: than that. We've heard from Anthony Blincoln, We've heard from

731
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: Ben Carden, We've heard from Michael McCall. And it's always

732
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: an honority here from Leon Panetta, who's with us right

733
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: now on Bloomberg TV and radio, of course, the former

734
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: US Secretary of Defense, former CIA director, former White House

735
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 2: Chief of Staff alongest business card in Washington. Mister Secretary,

736
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 2: it's great to see you here. Do you anticipate that

737
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 2: we will let our hands off the reins here to

738
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 2: allow Ukraine to take the fight to Russia.

739
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 11: Well, I certainly hope we give them a little more

740
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 11: room to be able to strike it Russian targets and

741
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 11: be able to defend themselves. So I'm hopeful that they

742
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 11: can find a way to give Ukraine a little more

743
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 11: flexibility to be able to go after those vital targets

744
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 11: that are frankly attacking Ukraine without any kind of retaliation.

745
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 11: That's got to stop.

746
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: Should they be allowed to shoot down miggs that are

747
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: taking off in Russia armed to attack Ukraine.

748
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 11: Well, again, I think it's important to give them the

749
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 11: ability to fully defend themselves. If those megs are going

750
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 11: after targets in Ukraine, then I think they should take

751
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 11: steps to be able to defend themselves against that kind

752
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 11: of attack. Look, this is a war and Russia is

753
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 11: using everything they have to be able to go after Ukraine,

754
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 11: and I think it's our responsibility and the responsibility of

755
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 11: our allies to be able to make sure that Ukraine

756
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 11: is fully armed, has all of the weapons that are

757
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 11: necessary in order to fully defend themselves in this war.

758
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: Well, it's something the air raid sirens we know go

759
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: off in Kiev the minute those MiG thirty ones take

760
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: off loaded for bear. Mister secretary, I'm sure you watched

761
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: the debate the other night. There were a lot of

762
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: questions about what would happen to Ukraine policy if Donald

763
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: Trump were re elected. He was asked repeatedly, and we

764
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 2: can share this moment of the debate with our audience

765
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: whether he even wants Ukraine to win. Here's how it went.

766
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: Do you want Ukraine to win this war?

767
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 6: I want the war to stop. I want to save

768
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 6: lives that are being uselessly, people being killed by the millions.

769
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 6: It's the millions. It's so much worse than the numbers

770
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 6: that you're getting, which are fake numbers. Look, we're in

771
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 6: for two hundred and fifty billion or more because they

772
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 6: don't ask Europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary to

773
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 6: getting this thing done than we are.

774
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: Mister secretary, you can weigh in on what you think

775
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 2: of Trump two point zero might mean for Ukraine. But

776
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: we hear from a lot of Trump supporters who say,

777
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: you know what, no new war has started when he

778
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 2: was in office and the world was a safer place.

779
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 11: How do you respond, Well, I think that if you're

780
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 11: going to be a world leader, you have to stand

781
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 11: up to our enemies. You have to stand up to

782
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 11: tyrants and to terrorists, and you have to build strong alliances.

783
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 11: And that's not what Trump is about. Trump thinks that

784
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 11: somehow he can operate alone and cut deals. I mean,

785
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 11: the fact that he would not say that Ukraine should

786
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 11: be successful at defending their democracy tells you an awful

787
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 11: lot about the way he approaches these issues. And it's

788
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 11: basically appeasement. It's capitulating to our adversaries, and that's not

789
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 11: a way to promote peace in the future. Yeah, I

790
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 11: could get your piece in the short term. I mean,

791
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 11: he said he can basically cut deals on all of

792
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 11: the crises that we are facing right now. Yeah, he

793
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 11: could by simply caving in and letting our adversaries get

794
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 11: everything they want. You know, that's an approach, frankly, that

795
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 11: Neville Chamberlain tried with Hitler in Czechoslovakia, and in the end,

796
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 11: it didn't pay off then and it won't pay off now.

797
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 11: So I would prefer a president that is willing to

798
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 11: stand up to our adversaries, build strong alliances, and exercise

799
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 11: responsible world leadership. And that's not what Trump does. He

800
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 11: didn't do it in his first term, and he wouldn't

801
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 11: do it as another president.

802
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, he likes to take credit for encouraging

803
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: incentivizing European nations to contribute more to NATO, for instance,

804
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 2: What would happen to that alliance under a Trump two

805
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 2: point zero.

806
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 11: I'm just afraid that deep down Trump, and he's pretty

807
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 11: much said it. As an isolationist, he wants to withdraw

808
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 11: from the rest of the world and basically handle things

809
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 11: on his own. And my view is that we live

810
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 11: in a dangerous world that requires United States world leadership,

811
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 11: and it requires our ability to work closely with our allies.

812
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 11: That's the key to being able to confront tyrants and

813
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 11: terrorists in the world. And so I just worry that

814
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 11: what he would try to do is basically weaken our

815
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 11: relationship with our allies try to operate alone. And look,

816
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 11: you know, I mean the record is not that good.

817
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 11: I mean, he spent three meetings sitting down with Kim

818
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 11: Jong mun and didn't get a damn thing. So I'm

819
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 11: not that that encouraged that he knows how to cut

820
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 11: a good deal.

821
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: How well do you know Vice President Harris mister secretary

822
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: her experience has been called into question by her rival

823
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 2: in this case, does she have the confidence to run

824
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: the United States military?

825
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 11: I think she does. You know, I've known her since

826
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 11: she was a prosecuting attorney. I knew her as a

827
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 11: district attorney and as Attorney General, and I find her

828
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 11: to be a pragmatic prosecutor, which is not a bad

829
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 11: thing to be when you're going to be president in

830
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 11: the United States and have to deal with challenges and

831
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 11: look at the evidence involved with each of those challenges

832
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 11: and crises. So I have a feeling based on what

833
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 11: I saw or do as Vice President meeting with foreign leaders,

834
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 11: understanding the crises that are out there, Understanding the role

835
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 11: that the United States has to play, and most importantly,

836
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 11: respecting not just the role of our veterans, which Trump

837
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 11: continues to criticize, but understanding the role of our military.

838
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 11: The role of our military is to defend us from

839
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 11: foreign enemies. It's not to threaten Americans. It's not to

840
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 11: round up immigrants into camps. Our military has its first

841
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 11: loyalty to the Constitution of the United States, not to

842
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 11: the President.

843
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: I have to ask you about what's happening in the

844
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: Middle East before we let you go, mister Secretary. There's

845
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: news that the US is bringing the USS Teddy Roosevelt home.

846
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: We had a rare moment where two carrier strike groups

847
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 2: were in the region for fear that Iran would retaliate.

848
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: Does this tell us that that threat level has diminished

849
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: so much that we don't need the deterrence any longer.

850
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 11: No, not at all. And my understanding is that the

851
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 11: Harry Truman carrier is going to be deployed to that

852
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 11: area soon, and I think we will continue to have

853
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 11: to provide the military protection in that region, particularly if

854
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 11: there's no ceasefire. We're going to continue to see missiles

855
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 11: thrown at one another, and the United States has got

856
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 11: to be prepared to defend against those missiles, particularly in

857
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 11: the Red where the Houthis have continued to go after

858
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 11: ships in the Red Sea. So I believe will continue

859
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 11: to have a strong presence in the Middle East.

860
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: Fascinating. I think that's news there. The Harry Truman apparently

861
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: on its way. Leon Pennet, it's great to see you,

862
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: mister Secretary. Thank you so much for being with us.

863
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: As always, the insights on Bloomberg TV and Radio from

864
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 2: the former Secretary of Defense, former director of the CIA,

865
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 2: and former White House Chief of Staff, never mind member

866
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: of Congress. He's now founder of the Panetta Institute. Thanks

867
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 2: for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure

868
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,520
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