1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing position and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode thirty. We'll be talking 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: about decluttering, the whole life changing magic of tidying up 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: or not tidying up, and the case maybe. But speaking 13 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: of books and impactful books, Sarah is thinking of writing one. 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: Tell us about that. Yeah, I am, and I actually 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: have no idea what kind of form this is going 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: to take, so it may be a self published ebook 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: or I may actually delve into trying to get it published, 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: though that is quite the ladder. I'm not sure I'm 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: ready to climb right now. But anyway, I do want 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: to write it one way or the other, and I 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: would like to write a book on planning because I 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: am very passionate about this subject, as you guys have 23 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: figured out, and I got quite the response on my 24 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: blog when I put out a request for a service. 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: Well basically, I offered to do a planning makeover for 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: three guinea pigs, and I thought maybe i'd get like 27 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: ten responses, and I'm now up to eighty and that 28 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: was even just with the one link. I mean, people 29 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: just poured it on in there, like how they planned, 30 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: what wasn't working for them, how they felt like things 31 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: could be better. And so I just kind of want 32 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: to get not that my system is the only system, 33 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: but it is a system, and I think I have 34 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: a lot of ideas and I've done a lot of 35 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: thinking there. So so yeah, so right now my step 36 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: is I'm going to do my three planning makeovers kind 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: of see where that takes me. I have an outline, 38 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: but I kind of want to do the makeovers first 39 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: because I think that will help me with my overall direction. 40 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: It is fascinating because I look at the stats for 41 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: the podcast, and the planner Palooza episode I think is 42 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: currently among our highest. Yeah, it's number one or number two, 43 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: and it had a long tail to it like people 44 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: kept coming back to finding it in the in the 45 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: list and going to it. I think you're really onto something. 46 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: I think that you can own this topic, Sarah. Awesome, 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: Yes it would. If there was a topic I was 48 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: going to own, that would probably be it. So but 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: you have something going on writing wise as well. Well, yeah, 50 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: but this is more of just a sticking with my 51 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: goals that aren't then being externally monitored like like yours, 52 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: you know, trying to do stuff that we set as 53 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: our own goals and stick with them. I've been writing 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: five hundred words of fiction a day, so every weekday, 55 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: so five days a week I write five hundred words 56 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: at least. And the idea is to write my way 57 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: through novella see how it goes. But I find that 58 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: once you have something, it's easier to make it better 59 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: then if you don't have anything at all, because it 60 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: better to take a bad first draft and make it better. 61 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: So I just want to get it out there, and 62 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: I think it's a good discipline to keep writing, and 63 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: I do the blog. So that's the discipline of nonfiction 64 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: writing and just sort of writing in general. But fiction 65 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: is a slightly different piece. So I've been working on that. 66 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: So I've stuck with it for a couple of weeks, 67 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: now over a month. Can we have a teaser on 68 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: what it's about? Well, who knows that? Whose one will 69 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: ever see the light of day. It goes back and 70 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: forth between Norway and Indiana and with little vignettes at 71 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: different points in time, with the main character as a 72 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: young man named Charlie who's you know, figuring out his 73 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: way in life. And he works, he runs this museum 74 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: that is devoted to his grandfather, was a famous novelist, 75 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: like wrote one of these sort of lines of American 76 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: literature kind of series of books. And so he runs 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: the museum that's devoted to his grandfather's legacy and he 78 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: so it's basically had his whole life defined by that 79 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: to sort of struggle of like how he feels about 80 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: that and whether he kind of sees himself as doing 81 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: anything different or sticking with that. But you know, there's 82 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: there's action too, There's there's other things going on. There's 83 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: a disappeared bust of senior citizens on the way to 84 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: the museum, because you got to have some action going 85 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: on in addition to the but the mental struggles, so 86 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, we'll see what made you choose a male 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: protagonist to try, because I never and I've read a 88 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: couple books recently, you know, I think male writers doing 89 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: female main character as well and female main characters badly, 90 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: and it's interesting to see the split between them. I've 91 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: also seen a couple you know, female writers do some 92 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: men writers, I mean, do male narratives, you know, better 93 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: or worse than others. And so I'm very curious. I just, 94 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: you know, honesty, if I can get myself inside the head, 95 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: or if not inside the head because it's not in 96 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: first person, but at least focused on a young man, 97 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: and see if I can do that, I think that 98 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: sounds awesome or at least very interesting. Well, you know, 99 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: and we were talking about the options you have these days, 100 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: Like I who knows if any publisher would ever be 101 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: interested in this whatsoever. But I can publish it myself 102 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: and you know, tell my own email newsletter list about it, 103 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: and my blog readers, and that's your guest listeners, and 104 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: that's you know, especially when we're talking about experimental fiction, 105 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: that's kind of as many readers as would be interested 106 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: in it anyway. So maybe I can just you know, 107 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: people would be like, oh, it's a Laura thing. Maybe 108 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: I'll check it out. So, yeah, we're working on that. 109 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm organized about the writing. I'm maybe 110 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: a slightly less organized about my physical space, which is 111 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: my horrible segue into our No, No, that wasn't horrible. 112 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: I actually I think you're I wish we had pictures 113 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: because I think your physical space is probably less chaotic 114 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: than you give it credit for it. Maybe it depends. 115 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: I mean often when I take pictures of it, it's 116 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: not you know, it's on its better days. I probably 117 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: cleaned the office once a week. Once every other week, 118 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: I clean it up, but I always still have piles 119 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: like there's it's just that I know what's in the pile, 120 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: and that's a difference. And the question is, as we 121 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: get into our topic, is to those piles far as well? 122 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: I mean, the problem is, like, you know, there are 123 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: things in life that don't spark joy, like my you know, 124 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: speaking contracts do not spark joy. Like my paper clips 125 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: do not spark joy. I think Marie Condo would argue 126 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: that maybe the we I mean, I like to get paid, 127 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: that's sure, but I you know, I have a stapler. 128 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure that it needs to spark joy, 129 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: but I do still need a stapler. So I mean, 130 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: maybe you have reached the beautiful state, or even your 131 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: stapler sparks joy. I think it does. I mean, I 132 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: think I guess. Okay, so we'll have to give a 133 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: little bit of background in case there is one listener 134 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: out there who has not read Marie Condo's life changing 135 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: Magic of Tidying Up, which came out a few years 136 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: ago and has now been parodied about nine thousand times. 137 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: It was also a subject of one of my favorite 138 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: podcasts lately is By the Book, And they take a 139 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: self help book and they follow it by the Book 140 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: for two weeks and then they record a hilarious account 141 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: of how that went. So, once I know a book 142 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: has hit that, like, you know, it's sort of like 143 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: become its own joke. Those podcasts are very sort of 144 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: different temperaments, right, like one what really doesn't like to 145 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: do anything that is in these books, and so it's 146 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: sort of funny like how she rebels against them. But yeah, 147 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 1: oh but they have such great chemistry. But anyways, so 148 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: so yeah, so once you a book has gotten to 149 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: that place, you know, probably everyone's seen it, and it's 150 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: sort of overplayed. But in my life, I am completely 151 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: serious about this book. Do I follow all of the 152 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: recommendations to the letter, Absolutely not, But do I feel 153 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: like it has had like a lasting impact on how 154 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: I manage my things in my space? And then even 155 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: beyond that, She pishly, I guess I'd have to send 156 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: that and Laura would have to say no. So that's 157 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: kind of what we're going to Delman Decluttering Debate of 158 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Yes, now, I actually reread The Life Changing 159 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: Magic of Tidying Up in advance of recording this episode, 160 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: and I think Murray Condo or I'm not sure if 161 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm saying that exactly right, but she she makes a 162 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: couple of good points, and I think partly it's, you know, 163 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: the idea of economics applied to life, which I always 164 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: like in general, and so I think she's got a 165 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: couple of good advances on there. One is the idea 166 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: of sunk costs, which are people are horrible about sunk costs. 167 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: So this is when you've already put money into something 168 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: and you can't get it back, and yet people feel 169 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: like they need to keep chasing that money and stick 170 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: with something even though you can't get that money back, 171 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: Like if you need to kill something, do it now, 172 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: as opposed to keep going after that sunk cost. So 173 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: she has a great way of thinking about this in 174 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: the sense that even if an object was expensive, if 175 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: you need to let go of it, thank it for 176 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: its service to you, right and she I mean she 177 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: has spent years tending this Shinto shrine, which there's an 178 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: element of Shintoism of like objects having spirits, and so 179 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: this is very much reflected in this book of you know, 180 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: these objects have spirits. We could thank the spirit for 181 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: its work or maybe that we see its purpose was 182 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: to have given us this joy in the store when 183 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: we got it, and its purpose is not to stick 184 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: with us for the rest of our lives. So sunk 185 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: costs can be let go of when you thank something 186 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: for its service and move on. So I love that 187 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: idea for schedules, Like, you know, just because you've been 188 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: working on a project for three weeks at work doesn't 189 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: mean you can't kill it. Like you could totally kill 190 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: that project, and maybe it would be good for everyone 191 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: to say, all right, well, we will thank that project 192 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: what it has taught us, and now we can move 193 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: on right instead of putting three more weeks into it 194 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: to see if you can change things. Absolutely, and along 195 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: those lines, I know I've heard somewhere read somewhere that 196 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, people assign more value to something if they 197 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: already have it, and I think that applies to both 198 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: time and objects and also fits along the lines of 199 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: sunk costs and Marie Kondo, would I think beg to differ. Yeah, 200 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, just you have it and people are stuck 201 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: in the innert ship. Well, I have it, so why 202 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: would I get rid of it? It's like, no, you 203 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: have it, but does it deserve to be kept well? 204 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: And that's the zero based accounting principle which is also 205 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: here in her books, which is that you know a 206 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: lot of companies. For instance, it's like, well, we had 207 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: X devoted to this department, and why devoted to this 208 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: department and Z devoted to this department last year, and 209 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 1: so we're going to do something that's related to X, 210 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: Y and Z for the next year. And because these 211 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: were in the budget, they'll definitely be in the budget 212 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: next year as well. But you don't have to think 213 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: that way. You could say, well, we start from zero, 214 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: like everything has to earn its place in our budget 215 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: every year, and that kind of keeps people more on 216 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: their tiths. And I think that's the same thing with 217 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: her spark Joy I did just that you know, it's 218 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: just because somebody is in your house doesn't mean it 219 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: deserves to stay there. And so rather than thinking about, 220 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: well what am I going to chuck and one of 221 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: my objects am I going to get rid of? Think 222 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: instead of I'm only going to keep that, which sparks Joy. 223 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: So it's just you knows, this zero based acounty is 224 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: also a good way to you know, keep things from 225 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: being in your schedule just because they're in your schedule 226 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: just because it's Tuesday. You don't have to have that 227 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: staff meeting just because you've always had the staff meeting 228 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: on Tuesday, right, So you know, that's another useful thing. 229 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: And to use an overplayed very it's getting very overplayed, 230 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: but the intentionality term, it's like, you know, you have 231 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: this in your home or you have this in your 232 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: in your life because at one point, but use that 233 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: fancy word that everyone uses, do you intentionally still want 234 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: it to be there? If you can't say yes, then 235 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: get rid of get rid of it. So yeah, I 236 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: mean On the other hand, of course, it's not possible 237 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: to have a schedule or a house where everything sparks joy. 238 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's like, you know, I don't like going 239 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: to the dentist, but as long as my teeth are 240 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: in my mouth, like, I can't have somebody else do it. 241 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: So you know, we all have the equivalent of paper 242 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: towels and such in our lives. See, that's a funny thing. 243 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: And that's where I guess I'd beg to differ because 244 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: my definition of sparking joy is different than yours. Like 245 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: if I looked at my planner and I saw dentists, 246 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you're right, that's not like super fun. 247 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: But somehow I could be like, yeah, that does spark 248 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: joy because that's an important part of caring for myself. 249 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: Or the stabler sparks joy because I only have one stabler. 250 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: I know where it is, and I need to use it, 251 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: and I'm going to use it when I use it. 252 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: And the idea of having like one specific object in 253 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: its place that's serving a specific purpose that alone sparks 254 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: joy to me. So those contracts that you have or 255 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: my tax forms, if I know where they are and 256 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't have redundancy and you know, they're not causing 257 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: a hideous amount of visual clutter. Like to me that 258 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: that does spark joy of joyce practice me. I definitely 259 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: agree about having a home for things, and I think that, 260 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that has made our 261 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: life functional is like the kid's shoes and backpacks have 262 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: to be in a certain place and if they are 263 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: found anywhere else in the house, the child is warned 264 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: and it has to go back to where it's supposed 265 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: to be, because if there's shoes all over the house, 266 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: like we're never getting out of the door. I mean, 267 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: that's just they have to you know, there's a certain 268 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: amount of time it takes to get on the bus, 269 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: and if the stuff isn't there, you're hunting for it. 270 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: And it probably helps not having a lot of redundancy there, 271 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 1: which would be kind of con mari Like do you 272 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: want to have like twelve pairs of shoes and eight 273 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: of them are like half beat up, but you kept 274 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: them because they're like okay? Or do you want like 275 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: your kids to each have like there are two pairs 276 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: of shoes that they actually wear and therefore, of course, 277 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: I mean, they grow out of stuff and then we 278 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: have to keep it for the next kid. So there's yeah, 279 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of stuff. I mean, that's 280 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: I guess that's the thing. There's I think visual cleanliness 281 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: sort of you know, whether things are all put away 282 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: or whether there are piles or that. I mean, some 283 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: of that is more of an aesthetic preference, that is true. 284 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: And I would say you are probably more into the 285 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: clean surface. Not I am, but I'm looking at my desk. 286 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty clean. I mean there's like right now, 287 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: I just have my microphone and the papers we have 288 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: for doing it. But I do have like one pile 289 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: and then I have like a physical inbox because I've looked, 290 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: I've carefully edited those piles, and I want everything in 291 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: those piles there, like I've thought about it. That's true. 292 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: I don't have excess stuff on this desk that like 293 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: I that are just there because I put them there 294 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: and I feel for me and I know this isn't 295 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: true for everyone. That helps me to focus better, just 296 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: like with my email I and we can get into 297 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: that too, because I think that's like like a side 298 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: of it for me, Like I like to have it 299 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: completely empty because I just do for me. There's a 300 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: certain freedom in that, in that sort of clean slate, 301 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: because when you feel that there's a clean slit, you 302 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: feel that there's nothing you need to do then or 303 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: what is the appeal email wise? Yes, yes, exactly, Like 304 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: I know I've gotten down and I only clean it weekly, 305 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: And I would say I do the same thing, like 306 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't obsessively clean off shelves every single day, 307 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: although I try to get rid of excess stuff to 308 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: keep the bar low of cleaning fairly low. But if 309 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: I yeah, it's the same thing. Like it's like I know, 310 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: there are not loose ends dangling out there in the wind. 311 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: And this is especially true for email because if I did, 312 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: then I'd always have them popping into my head at 313 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: various It would be very distracting to me. Yeah, so yeah, see, 314 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: I mean I kind of try to reach a point 315 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: where I've dealt with everything that I've decided I'm going 316 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: to deal with on the email front. But then I 317 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: don't care if it's archived or I'll just leave it 318 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: sitting in the inbox because I guess I just don't. 319 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: It doesn't bother me if there's like a pile of 320 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: stuff in the inbox. Yeah, that there says there's like 321 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: six hundred unread messages. But I think I've decided I'm 322 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: not doing anything about the six hundred unread messages. Like 323 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: I know, I've gone back at least a week or 324 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: two and there's nothing there that I'm gonna deal with. 325 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: And at that point, it's like you're not dealing with 326 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: it anyway. So I think that what would happen if 327 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: you just hit Mark Allah's red and then hit archive everything. 328 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, Maybe I it's funny because it's like 329 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: stuff like that just doesn't it doesn't cross your rate. 330 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: It doesn't kind of like stuff on a stuff on 331 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: a counter. You're like, I'll get done there because I 332 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: remember you told a story once about stuff in your 333 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: bathroom that like you left there for a really long time. 334 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: It was it was on the podcast. Yeah, I'm sure 335 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: I have there for a really long time, and I 336 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: was like, Wow, it didn't bother her. It really didn't 337 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: bother you. Yeah, And that's where I think there's maybe 338 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: a little fundamental personality and I think, you know, I 339 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: really want again, like we need grudge and rubin to 340 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: make a dicot. I mean, like there's like people who 341 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: care about stuff lying around and there's people who don't. 342 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: And I think, like that's that's another tendency. Yeah, there 343 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: must be another tendency or or just that are bothered 344 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: by things that are slightly off in their physical environment. 345 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: Because I maybe it's that with my car, Like I 346 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: got my car back from the shop and whatever is 347 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: somebody had fiddled around with the time and date on it, 348 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: and so the time and date in my car is wrong, 349 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: and as I'm thinking about it now, it's been wrong 350 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: for two months. And yeah, I would never I haven't 351 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: and I need sometime. I need to know what time 352 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: it is, Like, am I running late? Like you know 353 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: that's the clock you look at when you're driving somewhere, right, 354 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, I just know it's an hour and forty 355 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: six minutes ahead, and so I know roughly if I'm so. 356 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: For whatever reason, it's like my mind is like easier 357 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: to just subtract an hour and forty six minutes than 358 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: to bothering to reset the clock. I don't know, it's 359 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: I guess there's a that does sound rather weird now 360 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: that I think about it, I should probably go refix 361 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: my clock that's so interesting. Oh my gosh. Well, I 362 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: want to talk more about kN Marien, but I also 363 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: want to hear you had some interesting negative feelings about 364 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: the overall philosophy and the book itself. Well, I did 365 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: because I felt it was mostly aimed at women. And 366 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: you know that there's all this stuff life begins when 367 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: you put your house in order. And I really so 368 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: that put your house in order is, of course understood metaphorically, 369 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: I guess, but I think that a lot of women 370 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: read this is like literal, like I can get my 371 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: house in order, and then I can go do great 372 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: stuff in the world. Now, I would agree that if 373 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: you can't find your shoes, it's going to be hard 374 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: to get out and do great stuff in the world. 375 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: But on some level, you know, women already spend a 376 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: lot more time on housework than men do. And one 377 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: way to create more open space for other things in life, 378 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: such as spending more time relaxing or you know, maybe 379 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: working a few more hours, or spending more time on 380 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: hobbies or spending more time with family and friends is 381 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: to spend less time on housework. And you know, so 382 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: I often tell women who are concerned that they're spending 383 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: more time on these things in their husband. It's like, well, 384 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: there's not necessarily a set amount that absolutely has to 385 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: be done, So one way to make it even is 386 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: for you to do less, which is probably easier than 387 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: asking him to do more in many cases. So I 388 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: think that for many women there's this life changing magic 389 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: in not tidying up, saying that, yes, even though there 390 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: are toys on the floor, you can relax, you can 391 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: go to bed if you want to watch that TV show. 392 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: It's okay, Like you don't have to pick up the 393 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: toys first and then watch the TV show. If you're 394 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: tired and you'd like to relax, go ahead and have 395 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: that leisure time. Because women often talk themselves out of 396 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: leisure time because they feel like the house needs to 397 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: be tidy. And it's true, that's a stereotypical like female 398 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: complaint about you know, they don't feel like they can, yeah, 399 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: stop until the work is done, and yet their husband's 400 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: on the couch with a or what's up with that. 401 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: It's like, no, you can actually be on the couch 402 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: with a beer too, And that's a point. Bridget Shulty 403 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: that book overwhelmed, I mean, because she starts it off 404 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 1: in the beginning, it's all about you know, my husband 405 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: was like sitting on the couch of the beer while 406 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm cleaning the oven, and it's like, well, okay, did 407 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: the oven? Was it catching fire? Like? Is that why 408 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: you hat to clean it then? Or is it because 409 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: you know, we have this story in our heads that 410 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: we can't relax until all the housework is done. And 411 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: men don't walk around with that story, and so we 412 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: can either try to get them to have our story 413 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: or we can adopt their story. And so I think one, 414 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, opens up a lot more space than the other. 415 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: I will say in the defense in this book, well 416 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: it maybe Japanese culture. I don't know. No, I was 417 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: going to say that, well, this book is very Japanese. 418 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of things about it. You know, 419 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: when you apply to a US context, it's it's hard. 420 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: And I think that includes their concepts of gender roles. 421 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: And also, of course, like she's talking about tidying up 422 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: a tiny little Tokyo apartment, like she says to put 423 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: everything in one category in the middle of the floor. 424 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: It's like, well, if you have multiple floors in multiple rooms, 425 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: that is not so straightforward. But so it's Japanese, So 426 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: I think that makes some of the gender stuff a little, 427 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, more complicated. The other thing I will say 428 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: is just for my anecdotal My husband was just as 429 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: into this book. Maybe not quite as into it, but 430 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: he was definitely into it, like he wants to condo 431 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: his stuff too. Yes, we use it as a verb 432 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: and has participated, and both of us I've taught both 433 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: of our gendered children's the phrase, oh are we going 434 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: to give it away? Or keep this spark choric? So 435 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: I think you don't have to have it be an 436 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: entirely female book. And actually, if there are listeners or 437 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: if there are people out there, I'd love to hear 438 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: a male take on this book that doesn't make fun 439 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: of it a street faced sincere male tape. Yeah, I 440 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: mean there's some of it. The tiny Tokyo apartment. It 441 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: must be like she's like, store everything in one storage place, 442 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: because when you're getting stuff out, you have a purpose 443 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: that you want to make it as easy as possible. 444 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: The way I'm like, I cannot imagine the thought of 445 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: like putting diapers and wipes somewhere central every time to 446 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: then go to the chain your basement and there exactly, 447 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: just not or you know, even stuff like taking your 448 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: bus pass out of your bag every night and putting 449 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: it somewhere like okay, I mean again, I will objects 450 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: I'm giving my bag time to rest. I know I 451 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: would walk out the door without my bus pass every 452 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: single morning if it wasn't like in a bag, if 453 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: I was trying to commute that way, So I would, 454 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: I would. You know, you have to figure out stuff 455 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: that works for you. She also says you'll never need 456 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: to do it again, You'll never need to tidy again. 457 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: And I think you again I called her out on 458 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: that one. I did that that to me is a negative. 459 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: I actually think it would be a great yearly exercise 460 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: for some people, because again I do like it, but 461 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a one and done thing, and 462 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: things like her recommendation on the bags is to literally 463 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 1: empty your bag out every single day. I do not 464 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: do this, but I will say her discussion about this 465 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: has made me more aware of auditing the contents of 466 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: my bags every so often, so like I do tend 467 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: to look at the contents of our now I have 468 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: a diaper bag again, our diaper bag each weekend, and 469 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: make sure do I have You know, do I have 470 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: last week's wipes all wadded up in a bag? And 471 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, do I have enough diapers in here they 472 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: have the right size, because that seems to be changing 473 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: like every week. So yeah, there are grains of salt 474 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: I have used, even with my love of the book. Yeah, 475 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: I think that would be the frustrating. And she's promising 476 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: that it'll be done forever, like you'll never have to 477 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: tidy again, and then it winds up being an annual 478 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: thing because then it's just more time devoted to tidying, 479 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: and that is true. And I will say on your vein, 480 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: like I think I would get the impulse to tidy constantly, 481 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of women struggle with this, 482 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: especially if you have young kids that are sort of 483 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: like dumping something on the floor moving on to something else, 484 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: and oh I can't relax because I have actually fought 485 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: that very consciously, to the point where I try not 486 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: to tidy as they're playing. But I guess unlike you, 487 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: I still I don't feel great going to bed if 488 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: it's all out there. And that may also have to 489 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: do with our house, like we don't have a basement, 490 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: so if I don't tidy like I'm going to trip 491 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: and fall on something. There is a practical component to this, 492 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: so it's like I purposely don't put everything away all day. 493 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: I just put my feet up and do whatever I'm 494 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: going to do, or hang out with the kids or 495 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: do my own thing, but then do a one time 496 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: thing at night, and for me at least, I don't 497 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: find that time as wasted as like, I know, the 498 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: life changing magic of not tiding would be like, oh, 499 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: I could be working doing work, but no tidying to 500 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: me is like a mindless pleasure because I can put 501 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: on a podcast and just put things away. So to me, 502 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: it's like it's not an ore thing, it's an ant thing. Yeah, 503 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 1: what if you like it? I mean that's certainly some 504 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: people get really into it. I mean we've sort of 505 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: made fun of Real Simple magazine in the past, and 506 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: I was reading it. I think every issue there's something 507 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: that makes me go, oh, my goodness. And this past 508 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: issue they were doing a kitchen organization slash makeover of 509 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 1: somebody who's getting her kitchen remodeled, which of course is 510 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, something I'm also dealing with at the moment, 511 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: so I'm sure I was drawn to this, and the 512 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: organizer actually took all these women's spices and decanted them 513 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: into matching spice jars, which, you know, because she's like, well, 514 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: now they all have the same kind of lid and 515 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: they're the same size, and isn't that great? And I'm like, 516 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: but why, like so we just wasted all these other 517 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: spice jars that they came in just to have them 518 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: all look uniform. You know, it just seems like we 519 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on it. We spent a 520 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: lot of extra packaging on it for reasons that don't 521 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: seem entirely clear, other than maybe somebody's aesthetic preference that like, 522 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: this is the way a spice jar drawer should look. 523 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: But I mean a spice drawer doesn't have to look 524 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: like that. And I say you, probably I'm not spending 525 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: that much time looking at my spice draws or either, 526 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: so oh, definitely not, you know. And maybe people are 527 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: in life looking a lot at the spice drawer. But 528 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: if you're not, and there might be other things you 529 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: might want to spend your time on, I would say 530 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: that decanting all your spices into identical jars is probably 531 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: not a great I think this book may be better 532 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: for well, and you are too like people who can 533 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: deal with like doing things pretty well and not being 534 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: obsessed with perfection. Because to me, like the spice drawer 535 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: would be like make sure there aren't duplicate and expired 536 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: spices so that you can see the spices. But I 537 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: agree that's taking it like a whole other level that 538 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: should probably just waste time. I do, however, want to 539 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: put in a plug for Marie Condo's folding method. It's 540 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: everywhere if you haven't seen it. It's putting things so 541 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: that they stack on edge so you can actually see 542 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: everything in a drawer. This is not just aesthetics, folks. 543 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: This is so functional, Like you can actually see everything 544 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: in a drawer. It is revolutionary. I stand behind it 545 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: all the way. You're not doing it, you should try 546 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: it and then let me know what you think. So 547 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: how you have to like roll your stuff and then 548 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: stack it. It doesn't take any longer that it doesn't 549 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: take any longer than normal folding, but you kind of 550 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: make it into like a rectangle and then you stack 551 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: it on its edge so like a row of T shirts, 552 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: you can see like the top edge of everything. I 553 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: really don't find it take. I mean, if you're normally 554 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: stuffing your stuff in the door without folding it at all, 555 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: then yes, I guess this would take longer. But if 556 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: you're folding it in any way, shape or form, then 557 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: this takes the same amount of time. And yet because 558 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: they're lying on their edge, when you open the door, 559 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: you can see every shirt. Now do I do the 560 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: things she suggests, like put them in color order and 561 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: hang from like small to large. No, I do not, 562 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: because again I'm not about perfection with this, but the 563 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: actual being able to see everything and the folding method, 564 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: I think is it's actually really helpful, and it may 565 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: lead to you throwing things out because if you can 566 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: see everything and you realize, oh, I've got seven redundant 567 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: shirts and five of them are faded, you might kind 568 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: of question whether you actually need that many. Yeah, she's 569 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: particularly militant about socks, eh, Marie Condo. I was like 570 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: last I think one of the funniest parts to me 571 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: is she said when she watches the schoolgirls walk by, 572 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: and she sees that the elastic on their knee socks 573 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 1: as well, and she's like, I know you're not folding 574 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: your socks, right, So take with that what you will. 575 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: There are a lot of Japanese schoolgirls whose knee socks 576 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: apparently are not being folded correctly, so driving Marie kinda crazy. 577 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, well I would sorry, I want 578 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: her to write a book she's now since since writing 579 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: that book, she has had two children, and very close together. 580 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: I'm at ed. I think it's two little girls and 581 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: maybe they're like fifteen months apart at the most. So 582 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: I'd really like her to write another book now and 583 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: see if there's anything she would change an how she 584 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: does anything. I know, I mean it would be interesting 585 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: to see how their house is organized now with the 586 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: little kids stuff, which does, as we have both seen, 587 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: come in sort of regardless of what you do. And 588 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: we're we are looking at doing a whole episode on 589 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: birthday parties, so uh, you know, prepare ourselves for that. 590 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: Best of both world listeners. Do we have anything else 591 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: to say about? You know? I think that was I 592 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: think that was pretty comprehensive. But we as usual, you know, 593 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: I'll be instagramming as this week comes out and Laura 594 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: will write a post, so this will be a fun 595 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: one if anybody wants to weigh in, And again, yes, 596 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: I would welcome the mail perspective, but not if they're 597 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: just going to make fun of it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 598 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's go to Love of the week 599 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: sort of on the storage or decluttering idea. I guess 600 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: in the sense that commercials are clutter and I have 601 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: been loving this week. We're taking this during the Olympics, 602 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: which are on, and I love that I can DVR 603 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: things and then forward through the commercials. Oh my goodness, 604 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: the Olympics would be completely unwatchable without that ability. There 605 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: are so many breaks. There's so many of these little 606 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: like set pieces on some athlete who I'm sure is fascinating, 607 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: but it's like, I'd rather watch the athlete do what 608 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: here she does best, And like, why do we demand 609 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: that these people also sound profound in media interviews? I 610 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: mean they're not like, like, isn't it enough that they can, 611 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, lose that incredible speak or do the snowboarding 612 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: things or ski you know whatever. They don't need to 613 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: also have this like heartfelt talk with Katie correct, Like 614 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to watch that, so I'm forwarding through 615 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: all this. I was like, wow, you know, we didn't 616 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: used to have that ability, and so it's it's much 617 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: much better, much better. That is awesome. My love of 618 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: the week, to go with yours, is that you know, 619 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: back in the day, when you watch the TV show 620 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: you like, watch it, then you have to wait a 621 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: week for it to come out. But I think we 622 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: should just take a moment and appreciate the ability to 623 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: binge watch in today's world. So my love of the 624 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: week is being able to watch, you know, an episode 625 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: a day, or three episodes in a row, because really, 626 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: that is well in a row. Isn't something that was 627 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: available to us just several years ago, and you don't 628 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: really think about that, And I will throw out that 629 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: currently Josh and I basically if we're both home watching 630 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: an episode of This Is Us every night, and if 631 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: it's just me, I'm watching an episode of Crazy as Girlfriend, 632 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: which has taken a really sinister, crazy, crazy turn in 633 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: season three if you watch that show. But yeah, they're 634 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: both so much more fun when when you're sort of 635 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: with those characters every night over a period of time. 636 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: So binge watching, yeah, I mean, my kids cannot even 637 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: comprehend the idea that we used to be able to 638 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: watch Wizard of Oz like once a year. You know, 639 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: and only in a certain day when it was aired, 640 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: and that if you had to go to the bathroom, 641 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: you timed it during the commercials. This is tied down 642 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: to what was on what was then, you know. And 643 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: sometimes when we go to a hotel room or something, 644 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: they're like, well, I want to watch doc NX stuffans now, 645 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: Like you don't get to just watch doctor stuffans on 646 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: this TV. Like maybe if I've got my computer, I 647 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: can find you know, on the internet somewhere, but like 648 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: the TV doesn't work like that. And this just blows 649 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: their little minds. All right, So, speaking of changes, we'll 650 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: go to the Q. Yeah. Here, I'll go ahead and 651 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: read it. Ok that sounds great. This is an interesting one. Okay. 652 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: So this is from a woman who is expecting her 653 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: first baby who is a frequent traveler. She says, my 654 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: husband and I are expecting our first is to lie 655 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: and I was just promoted. Yay. My new role requires 656 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: travel across the country once every eight weeks or so. 657 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: Right now, that is no problem because it's just us. 658 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: But we are both nervous about how we will look, 659 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: how that will look once we have a baby. Do 660 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: you have any tips about making this work? For us 661 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: without causing any resentment in our marriage or guilt on 662 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: my part. Before Laura answers it, I just want to say, 663 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: awesome thinking about these things before the baby's even born, 664 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: because a lot of people don't. Okay, go ahead, yes, no, 665 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: well that's I mean. I always love getting questions from 666 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: our podcast listeners. We're just so people who are just 667 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: so profoundly thoughtful about their lives and intentional and it's amazing. 668 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: But sometimes we can overthink issues. And I would definitely 669 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: put this one in the category of not a problem, right, Like, 670 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: one week out of every eight weeks is just not 671 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: that much. I would not freak herself out over it. 672 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: I would definitely not put her, you know, be in 673 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: the mindset of, like I need to freeze enough meals 674 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: for the week for my husband ahead of time, as 675 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: if he was incapable of feeding himself and a child, 676 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 1: which is what some people do with their their business travel. 677 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he's a parent, going to be 678 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: a parent too, and he will be able to deal 679 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: with the kid while you are traveling, just as you 680 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: would deal with the kid while he was traveling. The 681 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: only practical aspect of this is if her husband also 682 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: travels in ways that he can't always predict or if 683 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: he has unpredictable hours, then they will need some additional 684 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: childcare for the times when she is traveling, either a 685 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: sitter who can cover kind of those post daycare hours 686 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: or someone who can stay overnight if that's necessary. But 687 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,719 Speaker 1: if he does have some control over his schedule, then 688 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: maybe he can try to avoid traveling on those weeks, 689 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: so they could trade off or you know, and she 690 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: can also if she's worried about resentment, which again I 691 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: think once every eight weeks, if that causes resentment, that's 692 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: probably a deeper Yeah, I mean that's six times a year. 693 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: It's not that much. It's not that much at all. 694 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: And you know, she could consciously give him a little 695 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: bit more me time on the weekend before and the 696 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: weekend after that she's going to be gone, Like she'll say, Okay, 697 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: I'll take the baby for a while so you can 698 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: go to the gym, or if you want to go 699 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: out with your buddies, why don't I just hang out 700 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: with a kid tonight so you can go do that. 701 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: Like that would be a wonderful thing, a wonderful gesture. 702 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: If she would like to do it, but I also 703 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: just don't. It's only if we couldn't think that like 704 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: mothers should never travel, that this would be in any 705 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: way an issue. Yeah, I was. I was just out 706 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: with a friend actually, who goes internationally now every few weeks. 707 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: She's had a lot of career changes and this is 708 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: so done a lot of travel, but I think this 709 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: is the most travel intense her job has gotten. And 710 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: she actually feels like it's harder now compared to when 711 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: they are babies, because they like they need her emotionally 712 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: more and they kind of focus on her leaving and 713 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: act out, you know, So for her it's actually been 714 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: harder with school age kids compared to toddlers. The one thing, 715 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: since I am currently in that phase and thinking about it, 716 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 1: is the only to me rough patch with a baby. Really, 717 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: The only would be the breastfeeding aspect, because you will 718 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: have to if you choose to breastfeed, and maybe you 719 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: know this will be one where you can defer travel 720 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: until you're maybe nine months postpartum or something like that, 721 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: so that it's not that much of an issue and 722 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: you pump a few times and you're good to go, 723 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: or maybe you're done breastfeeding by then, or maybe you 724 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: choose not to. But to me that that would be 725 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: the only stressful part. But keep in mind that it's 726 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: such a short period of time. So if you have 727 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: to travel six times a year or every eight weeks, 728 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: maybe you just again, maybe you kind of push that 729 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: out as long as possible to make it less of 730 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 1: an issue. Yeah, I mean, we're just pump. I mean, 731 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: you know you could, you could do that, but yeah, 732 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: so I was just thinking about it. She took like 733 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: a three month maternity leave and she travels every two months. Yeah, 734 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: she could push the first one out. Probably they would 735 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: let her, you know, push that out at least two 736 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: months in the beginning, so five six months would be 737 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: the first time she'd actually be traveling, and then it 738 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't be again until like seven eight months. So she's 739 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: really only gone for like one week in the kids 740 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: first seven eight months of life. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly 741 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: push it out. I will say. I don't ever say 742 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: just pump. I'd be like, nope, not just pump, because 743 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: I don't have to do it. Especially twenty four hour 744 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: pumping is very hard and it's not always so easy 745 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: to maintain your supply. Not everybody can do it, so 746 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: I would, but that's also yeah, okay if and that's 747 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: totally okay. But that's why I don't think you can 748 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: say just pump, because it's like for a lot of people, 749 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: it's not just pump supplement. I mean, you know, supplement 750 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: with certainly the kids getting solid food by five six months. Yeah, 751 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: I would probably started supplementing with formula at least by 752 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: seven eight months, a bottle a day or so. So 753 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: in that case, you know, the no, that's a good point. 754 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: You don't need to be making eight million ounces usually 755 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: by the time your baby is past you know, six 756 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: seven months, so it is it might be much more 757 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: doable by that point. I forgot to mention, and I 758 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: wanted to because this this this person made me think 759 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: about the fact that my father traveled a ton when 760 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: I was growing up. Like I mean, my visions of 761 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: him in his work life, for him getting home with 762 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: his suitcase usually midweek, I feel like he traveled a lot, 763 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: like Sunday through Wednesday or something like that. And honestly, 764 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: some of my happiest memories hi Dad are of him 765 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: unpacking his suitcase and like talking to him about his 766 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: trip and where he went and usually getting some little, 767 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 1: you know, tiny toy from wherever he had gone. So 768 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's also as your kids get older, 769 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: it could be there could be a positive aspect to 770 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: it too. You could use your frequent flyer miles to 771 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: take them somewhere really cool. Yes, yes, that's always a 772 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: good a good thing too, so they may see some 773 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 1: upsides of it. Yeah, I mean I would say I 774 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: I would find it hard to believe that, like a 775 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: man would send us this question. Yes, you know, like 776 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: I travel once every eight weeks. How can I avoid 777 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: resentment and guilt? Like, I just don't think that we 778 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: would get that question from a guy whose job involved travel, 779 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: And so I think it's pretty much the same. Like, 780 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, you cover for each other when you're gone, 781 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: and if this is a job you love doing, then 782 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: I don't see that there's a problem at all. Totally agree. 783 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: So our assessment is what Laura said, not a problem, 784 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: not a problem. All right. Well, this has been the 785 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: best of both worlds Episode thirty. We've mostly been talking decluttering. 786 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: Tune in next week for more on making work and 787 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me 788 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore 789 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at 790 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of 791 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more 792 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: on making work and life work together.