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Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero.

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Speaker 2: I'm Oscar Boyd and I'm Christine Driscol.

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Speaker 1: We're the producers on zero and we are joined as

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Speaker 1: always by our eminent host at Sha Rati. Actually, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to London. You've been in Singapore, Australia and India

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Speaker 1: visiting and interviewing all sorts of interesting people working in climate.

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Speaker 1: How were your travels?

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Speaker 3: Oh, really good, energizing, exhausting, surprising, all the things that

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Speaker 3: good travel is supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: What was the best thing you saw?

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's an easy one, because I went to

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Speaker 3: the Great Barrier Reef. It's very hard to beat a

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Speaker 3: world wonder, which I'd been looking forward to see. The

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Speaker 3: other wonder is Singapore. It's a man made wonder and

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Speaker 3: that was crazy fun too. I mean, it's the most

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Speaker 3: densely populated country in the world, one hundred percent urban,

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Speaker 3: and yet it's also a really good place to visit.

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Speaker 3: Everything works, cooling is on all the time. We went

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Speaker 3: down and saw some cooling projects, including a district cauling

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Speaker 3: project which was very interesting. Workers in the basement that

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Speaker 3: had huge vats of ice cool using renewable electricity when

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Speaker 3: it's available. But yeah, do wonders of the world.

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Speaker 2: That's great. So a couple of months ago we introduced

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Speaker 2: a new format on Zero, which is our numbers based

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Speaker 2: climate guessing game. Because of its wild popularity last time,

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Speaker 2: today the game is getting a second outing, and so

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Speaker 2: just to quickly recap if this is your first time

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Speaker 2: or you've been wowed by Singapore and everything's left your mind.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of climate numbers out there and

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Speaker 2: they don't make it onto a full episode of Zero,

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Speaker 2: but they do paint a good picture of where we're going,

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Speaker 2: and it is a shame to ignore them. So the

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Speaker 2: purpose of this game is to highlight our.

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Speaker 1: Favorites exactly and to recap. The rules as well. They're

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Speaker 1: very simple. Each one of us will present a number

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Speaker 1: and then the other two have to figure out what

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Speaker 1: that number represents. Each person can ask three questions, You

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Speaker 1: can ask for clues if you get stuck, and then

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Speaker 1: you have to guess.

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Speaker 2: Akshat Do you remember how to play?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? It's easy enough.

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Speaker 3: As always, I play games only if I have a

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Speaker 3: chance to win a prize, and I was a little

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Speaker 3: disappointed last time around because you guys gave me a

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Speaker 3: carbon credit. Not interested in one of those So what's

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Speaker 3: the prize this time?

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Speaker 1: Hey, what's wrong with the carbon credit?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you should go back and listen to the episode

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Speaker 3: of Mark Trexler to understand why carbon credits don't work.

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Speaker 1: But yes, cool, So this time the prize is much

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Speaker 1: more special, much more real in many ways, and the

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Speaker 1: prize you'll be delighted to know, actually is a copy

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Speaker 1: of a new book being published on October the twelfth,

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Speaker 1: called Climate Capitalism. Actually, would you like to explain the

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Speaker 1: price of it?

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Speaker 3: Well, I would like to lose it, so one if

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Speaker 3: you get who wins it, then the pressure's on.

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Speaker 1: So I mean i'll give a brief into but actually

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Speaker 1: you should use this opportunity to promote your new book

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Speaker 1: as well. It's called Climate Capitalism. It's out October twelve.

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Speaker 1: I've read most of the first few chapters. I haven't

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Speaker 1: finished it yet, but it's great. It's brilliant. It's a

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Speaker 1: really really fun read, and I would recommend anyone who

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Speaker 1: is listening to go out and pre order the book. Actually,

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Speaker 1: do you want to give it a brief plug as well?

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a book about climate solutions, So anybody listening

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Speaker 3: to Zero the podcast about climate solutions will not be

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Speaker 3: surprised by it, but I would hope the surprising stories

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Speaker 3: in it will interest you. Some of them, or at

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Speaker 3: least some of the people behind those stories have featured

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Speaker 3: on this podcast, But there is a lot more in there.

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Speaker 3: Writing a book is very different from any other kind

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Speaker 3: of journalism I've done so far, and it also gave

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Speaker 3: me an opportunity to sort of lay out a case

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Speaker 3: for where we are and correct some of the misperceptions

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Speaker 3: around whether we are doing enough on reducing emissions. So

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Speaker 3: I'm really excited for what people think about it. Really

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Speaker 3: nice reviews are coming through, so I feel less nervous

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Speaker 3: now because some people have read it and they've said,

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Speaker 3: it's all.

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Speaker 2: Right, great review for our prize.

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Speaker 1: It's all right, it's all right.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So to sum that up, akshot, you are ready

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Speaker 2: to compete for your own book?

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Speaker 1: Correct? Shall we play? Whose number is it? Anyway? Christine?

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Speaker 1: Would you like to go first this time?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am ready. My number is fifty fifty.

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Speaker 3: That's a small number.

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Speaker 2: Is it a small number?

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Speaker 3: Well again, if you're doing it like last time, if

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Speaker 3: it's going to be a percentage, I guess we need

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Speaker 3: the unit.

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Speaker 2: You have a really good memory. It is a percentage,

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Speaker 2: and I'll throw it in a little extra hint. It's

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Speaker 2: a percentage reduction.

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Speaker 3: So it cannot be the twenty thirty target, because that

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Speaker 3: twenty thirty target is forty three percent reduction over twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen levels.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not it. Now, I haven't said what we're reducing,

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Speaker 2: but you are on the correct path.

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Speaker 1: Can I try and define the geographic area little bit?

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Speaker 1: Is it a reduction that's happened in the USA?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is.

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Speaker 1: Does it have anything to do with electricity generation? No?

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Speaker 2: Not directly.

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Speaker 1: Actually, you look like you're bubbling with questions slash deep

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Speaker 1: in thought.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually confused because I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 3: If it's not electricity, The closest we come to it

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Speaker 3: is the US goal, which Joe Edden said for a

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Speaker 3: fifty percent reduction in emissions by.

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Speaker 1: I've got an idea. Is it something that is to

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Speaker 1: do with land use change? No? Okay, that's my idea.

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Speaker 2: Gone, Okay, I have another hint. I want you to

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Speaker 2: fill in the blank. If I say Microsoft, what's the

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Speaker 2: first word that comes to mind?

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Speaker 1: Windows XP dang.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say office because it's about working

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Speaker 2: in an office and the effect that that has on

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Speaker 2: your emissions.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, I think I know roughly what this is.

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Speaker 1: It's how much your emissions reduced by or how much

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Speaker 1: emissions have been reduced by people working from home.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think I'm going to I want to give

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Speaker 2: this point to Oscar.

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Speaker 1: I'm one step closer to finishing at chat sport.

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Speaker 2: So basically, there's a big headline recently about a study

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Speaker 2: of office workers and remote workers, and the ultimate finding

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Speaker 2: was if you work from home, the emissions savings could

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Speaker 2: be as much as fifty percent. And that's like the

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Speaker 2: big headline because everyone's like, who, let's keep working from home.

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Speaker 2: I looked at the study. There's a lot of really

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Speaker 2: great details in it. I encourage other people to look

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Speaker 2: at the study. But there are a lot of neat

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Speaker 2: things that are not in the headline, and I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about that. So this was a study of

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Speaker 2: Microsoft office workers in the US. I could not get

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Speaker 2: the researcher to tell me exactly how many people that was,

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Speaker 2: but it's at least twenty thousand. So Microsoft has one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand people working in the US. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: This professor of energy systems engineering at Cornell doctor Fon

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Speaker 2: Sheiu and other colleagues did the study tracking Microsoft workers

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Speaker 2: in the US, and the thing that's not in the

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Speaker 2: headline that I think is so interesting is that you

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Speaker 2: have to be working from home more than one day

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Speaker 2: a week in order to get this benefit. If you

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Speaker 2: just work from home one day a week, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: really do very much.

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Speaker 1: Why is that It has to do with.

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Speaker 2: The amount of trips that a person who is working

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Speaker 2: from home does on their one day that they're working

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Speaker 2: from home, So it's like they're driving more essentially, And

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Speaker 2: that goes back to like the source of emissions if

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Speaker 2: you're working in the office is commuting and the energy

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Speaker 2: use of the building. And I work from home, so

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Speaker 2: sometimes I feel guilty about it, like, oh, I'm sitting

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Speaker 2: here with the electricity on and like the computer and

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Speaker 2: the router, and there's all these empty office buildings that

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Speaker 2: are just running really great air conditioning and I'm not there.

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Speaker 2: And it turns out that because I'm working from home

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Speaker 2: more than one day a week, I actually am kind

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Speaker 2: of in the clear. I'm doing something marginally good.

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Speaker 1: Do Microsoft employees are the one study? Are they largely

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Speaker 1: driving to work? Because I'd be interested know whether it's

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Speaker 1: the same effect in say London, where it's very easy

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Speaker 1: to cycle or take the bus or take the tube

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Speaker 1: or whatever kind of form of public transport you want

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Speaker 1: to get to work and you're not driving so much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of driving. And in the study too,

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Speaker 2: they make the point that you could further reduce your

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Speaker 2: emissions as a worker if you drive an EV But

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Speaker 2: then also only really if you're in the Pacific Northwest,

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Speaker 2: where there's a lot more renewable energy. If you're in

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Speaker 2: the South or of the mid Atlantic there's so much

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Speaker 2: coal generation that it's negligible. There's not a lot of

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Speaker 2: great examples of Americans commuting by train or bike, so

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Speaker 2: it's really a car centric study.

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Speaker 3: So all the carbon intensive countries really should be working

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Speaker 3: from home. You know, if you're living in Saudi Arabia, don't.

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Speaker 1: Go to Wick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Basically, yeah, work from home two days a week

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Speaker 2: at least. And if you really want your employees to

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Speaker 2: come back to the office, make sure that you're building

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Speaker 2: is super energy efficient, and then you'll have a really

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Speaker 2: strong case that it's better on a lot of levels.

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Speaker 2: But everyone who's working from home should not feel guilty

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Speaker 2: about it. Great, Akshat, you talked about district cooling. I

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Speaker 2: do you want to learn more about that because the

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Speaker 2: cooling is such a big part of people's energy use,

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Speaker 2: whether you're in the offices or at home. I think

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Speaker 2: that you should go next.

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Speaker 3: Okay. My number is two hundred and one million.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think this is the number of electric vehicles

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Speaker 2: that have been sold in a certain timescale.

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Speaker 3: All right, you guys know me it is electric vehicles.

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Speaker 3: But well, don Christine, timescale is forever.

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Speaker 1: It's time scills forever.

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Speaker 3: As in from the beginning of time till now.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Is it something to do with the batteries

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Speaker 1: inside the electric vehicles?

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Speaker 3: I know it is about the vehicles themselves.

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Speaker 2: It's not the number of miles that have been traveled.

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Speaker 1: No, you've not done something annoying like times dip by

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Speaker 1: the number of tires that electric vehicles have.

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Speaker 2: No, the vehicles themselves. Two hundred and one million.

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Speaker 1: Is it global or is it one specific country? For example, China?

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Speaker 1: One country? Is it China? Yes? Good?

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Speaker 3: All right, time to guess I.

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Speaker 2: Think Oscars pursing his lips with a question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is it something to do with the number of

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Speaker 1: people who have ridden in an electric vehicle in China

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Speaker 1: in all time.

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Speaker 2: No, Okay, my final guess is I don't think this

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Speaker 2: is the right scale for China, but I will guess

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Speaker 2: it's the number of electric vehicles sold in China to date.

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Speaker 3: You're closed, but still wrong. It is the number of

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Speaker 3: two wheeler electric vehicles.

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Speaker 1: That I told it was something I'm annoying to do

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Speaker 1: with wheels, I said it, No.

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Speaker 3: It's not a number of wheels. It's still number of wheels.

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Speaker 3: So it's the number of electric two wheelers that are

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Speaker 3: in the fleet in China as of twenty to twenty two.

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Speaker 2: So it's four hundred and twenty million wheels.

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Speaker 1: Four hundred and two million wheels.

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Speaker 2: Sorry fortune, two million wheels.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, electric two wheelers include bicycles, motorbikes. It's still a

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Speaker 1: motorbike if.

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Speaker 3: It's I guess it is, yes, And most of it

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Speaker 3: is actually more peds rather than electric bikes. And it's

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Speaker 3: a number that was just super shocking to me. You know,

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Speaker 3: I went to China in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 3: and I just saw electric two wheelers everywhere. But you know,

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Speaker 3: the scale of China is so huge that even when

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Speaker 3: you see them everywhere, You're still not like sure how

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Speaker 3: many they might be. And so when I first came

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Speaker 3: across the number, I was shocked, and it is shocking,

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Speaker 3: especially when you compare it to other countries. So the

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Speaker 3: next country in the rank that has electric two wheelers

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Speaker 3: is India, no surprises, but another guess how much lower

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Speaker 3: is that number? I'm going to say tenth, so twenty million?

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Speaker 2: Wait, but I want to know does India manufacture? Yes,

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Speaker 2: it does, is electric? Okay, I'm going to stick with

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Speaker 2: my theme of today and just do its fifty percent lower.

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Speaker 3: The number of electric two wheelers in India were one

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Speaker 3: point five million last year in twenty twenty two. The

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Speaker 3: entire fleet, it's one one hundred, one one hundred, So

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Speaker 3: China is like way ahead on this game.

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Speaker 1: Has that actually displaced the need for fossil fuel set?

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Speaker 3: So that's the other surprising thing because of the sheer

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Speaker 3: number of electric two wheelers. It's electric two wheelers and

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Speaker 3: three wheelers combined that displace four times as much oil

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Speaker 3: demand as all electric passenger cars sold globally. Wow, so

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Speaker 3: your two and three wheeler electric vehicles are displacing about

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Speaker 3: a million barrels of oil demand per day, whereas passenger

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Speaker 3: cars in total are just placing about quarter of a

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Speaker 3: million barrels of oil demand per day, and for contacts,

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Speaker 3: we consume about one hundred million barrels of oil every day.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So electric two and three wheelers have displaced one

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Speaker 1: percent of global oil demand.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, that's that's pretty good for two wheels. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is that just because they're mostly being used in highly dense,

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Speaker 1: highly urban settings and getting rid of that last short

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Speaker 1: distance travel that people would maybe use cars for.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, But it's also that countries like India and China

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Speaker 3: and Southeast Asia, two wheelers are the way to get

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Speaker 3: around because they're cheaper to buy. They are much more

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Speaker 3: efficient than a passenger car because you don't have to

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Speaker 3: carry all that weight along just to sit in it,

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Speaker 3: and so they make for the mode of transport of

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Speaker 3: choice because it's cheap and you can get around it

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Speaker 3: and you know, to be fair to India, yes, it's

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Speaker 3: one hundred right now, but the rate of growth in

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Speaker 3: India that bloomergeni f predicts is massive. So it's one

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Speaker 3: point five million last year, it'll be two point five

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Speaker 3: million this year, it'll be three point five million next year.

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Speaker 3: And that way it just goes up because the economic

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Speaker 3: case for electric two wheelers also has set in in India,

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Speaker 3: and on my trip this time around, I saw so

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Speaker 3: many of them.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I think would also be really interesting

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Speaker 1: with that is how much it changes air pollution. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you do notice it when you're going around Delhi, the

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Speaker 1: fact there are so many polluting vehicles on the streets,

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Speaker 1: and if you can change them all for evs, which

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Speaker 1: have very little pollution, then that's going to have a

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Speaker 1: huge effectually.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. It's not uncommon for petrol power two wheelers

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Speaker 3: to have this huge amount of smoke coming out. Yes,

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Speaker 3: they are more fuel efficient relative to a car, but

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Speaker 3: they do produce higher air pollution just because their engines

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Speaker 3: are small and they can't put in all the things

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Speaker 3: that a car can do to be able to put

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Speaker 3: out fewer particulate matter pollution.

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Speaker 1: That's another great number. Does anyone win a point? Oh?

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Speaker 3: I think Christine gets half a point because she's very

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Speaker 3: very good.

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Speaker 2: Half a point. I was so close.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I got that thing about the wheels though.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break while you ponder

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Speaker 2: the existence of two wheeled vehicles. And when we get

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Speaker 2: back more numbers. Okay, Oscar, it is your turn to

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Speaker 2: share a number.

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Speaker 1: My number is two thousand and twenty four.

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Speaker 3: Well that sounds like the year. But if it's not

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Speaker 3: the year, then I mean it'll be too obvious if it's.

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Speaker 2: The year, So just a year that would be so

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Speaker 2: I want.

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Speaker 1: To say, I think, am I getting number shaded? It's

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Speaker 1: very it's this is the thing we do when I share.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, choosing a year it feels it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit punk. I guess it's a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'll take it. It is a year.

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Speaker 3: Well, a lot of things that happened next year. India

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Speaker 3: goes to election next year.

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Speaker 1: It's not that.

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Speaker 2: Is this a year that something is going to be achieved?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Oh damn, I should ask that differently.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, something I think they will very likely

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Speaker 1: be achieved.

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Speaker 2: Can I rephrase that? I want to know if something

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Speaker 2: is starting to be built in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: No, nothing is starting to be built.

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Speaker 3: Is it to do with protection of a certain thing

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Speaker 3: like a forest or an ocean or a you know,

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Speaker 3: like a terrestrial thing or animals?

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Speaker 1: Or it is not?

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Speaker 2: Is it? The bike lanes from your last episode are

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Speaker 2: finally being built.

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Speaker 1: No, it has nothing to do with bicycles, which is

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Speaker 1: one of my big clues.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, geographical proximity.

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Speaker 1: Give us a hint. It is global. Oh my god, is.

334
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 3: There a climate gold that may be achieved next year?

335
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Speaker 3: A global one.

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Speaker 2: I'm really stumped.

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00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,879
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you another hint that it's to

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Speaker 1: do with our favorite energy association.

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Speaker 2: IA predict something will happen in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Very good. Now what's the thing?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I got it, but I think I'm wrong, But maybe

343
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Speaker 3: I'm correct, which is all fossil fuel demand, oil gas,

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Speaker 3: and coal will peak in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: You're along the right lines, but think less fossil fuel,

346
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Speaker 1: more renewable final gases.

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Speaker 2: Please, yeah, seriously, just bear in.

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Speaker 1: Mind, Christine. If you get this, then you get the book.

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Speaker 2: I know I'm going to guess that this has something

350
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Speaker 2: to do with the like, let's just say renewables will

351
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Speaker 2: have become present in every country on Earth's electricity generation

352
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Speaker 2: of at least two percent.

353
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Speaker 1: Nice guess, but no, okay, is it a good No

354
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Speaker 1: more hints, no more, henty. It will be a record,

355
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 1: but it's not being framed in terms of records.

356
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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going with the wild guest because I don't

357
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:13,159
Speaker 3: know the answer, which is that renewable electricity, specifically solar,

358
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Speaker 3: will be the cheapest form of electricity everywhere in the world.

359
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 1: That might also be true. I'm not going to deny it,

360
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 1: but it's not the figure I'm talking about. So twenty

361
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Speaker 1: twenty four is the year that the International Energy Agency

362
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 1: predicts that renewables could overtake coal as the world's largest

363
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Speaker 1: source of electricity.

364
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Speaker 2: Whoa is shaking his fist.

365
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 3: I think I knew that, it just didn't hit me.

366
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Speaker 2: Hey that's cool.

367
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool. And as a follow up from that,

368
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 1: so the figure I just gave is for all renewables,

369
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 1: which includes hydro which is the currently the largest solar

370
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: wind both on you or not sure, but by twenty

371
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 1: twenty seven, they think solar alone will be bigger than coal.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And why I really liked this figure is that it

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00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 1: builds upon their own predictions and so all the way

375
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Speaker 1: back in December of twenty twenty two, about nine ten

376
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 1: months ago, the IA released its Renewabals twenty twenty two report,

377
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 1: which estimated that globally, renewables might overtake coal maybe in

378
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 1: early twenty twenty five, but the latest report, which came

379
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 1: out in July, says that it could be as early

380
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: as twenty twenty four. It's caveatd with as long as

381
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: weather conditions are favorable, that renewables as a whole should

382
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 1: overtake coal.

383
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 3: And that answers one question, which is this is about

384
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Speaker 3: generation of renewable electricity and not just the capacity. I

385
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 3: should also correct myself, which is yes, the IEA did

386
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Speaker 3: say something about peaking of oil, coal and gas demand,

387
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Speaker 3: but it said all of those will peak before twenty thirty.

388
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Speaker 1: I mean that's also huge. What's crazy is when you

389
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: look at these figures. So in twenty fourteen, all renewable

390
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 1: energy put together made about five thousand terrible hours in

391
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Speaker 1: a year, and at that point so twenty fourteen, coal

392
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: was about ten thousand terrible hours globally, and coal has

393
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: remained relatively insistent. It's kind of fluctuated a little bit,

394
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: but renewables in that ten yure period have doubled from

395
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Speaker 1: five thousand terrible hours to almost ten thousand terrible hours.

396
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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it's exciting because, as I said,

397
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Speaker 1: it builds upon the IA. It's own forecasts, and basically

398
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: they've just taken in all the new data from governments

399
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: like China, the EU, the US, India who are just

400
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: pumping more and more money and changing their policies to

401
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: basically make it easier to introduce renewables and make it

402
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Speaker 1: less favorable for new fossil fuels to come into place.

403
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it does feel surprising, even though we just

404
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 3: had Jenny Chase explained to us the solar revolution that

405
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 3: is just mind boggling. But it's it is that mind

406
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 3: boggling that even after you slice andize these numbers different

407
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 3: radio like Wow.

408
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 1: The other last thing I'd like to mention by the

409
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 1: IA report is that they've now made this claim that

410
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: fossil fuels are seeing structural decline. Normally, in the past

411
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 1: when fossil fuels have declined, it's been in the wake

412
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Speaker 1: of big recessions, financial crashes, the OPEC oil crisis in

413
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. They're saying now because of how quickly

414
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: renewables are rising, in particular Solo, that fossil fuels are

415
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: starting to go into a terminal structural decline. That even

416
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: though electricity demand is still growing, all that new capacity

417
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: that's needed is being taken up by renewables, and renewables

418
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 1: are now making a real dent into fossil fuel infrastructure

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Speaker 1: as well. I don't know who got that, did either

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00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: of you get that? I'm going to give it to

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00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: Christine so she gets the copy of Actual's.

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Speaker 2: Book sign version in the mail.

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Speaker 3: There will be one.

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Speaker 1: I think that wraps up our time. Thank you guys

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Speaker 1: for playing Whose number is it? Anyway? This was fun.

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Speaker 2: Great, Thanks so much for listening to Zero. Let us

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00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 2: know what you thought of this format at zero pod

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00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot net.

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Speaker 1: If you enjoyed it, please give us a rating or

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00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Please do say nice

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00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: things only.

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Speaker 2: Zero's producer is Oscar Boyd and senior producer is me

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Speaker 2: Christine driscoll.

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Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Wonderly Special thanks as always

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00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 1: to Kira Bndrum and we'll be back later this week