1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: It's hard to say, like, well, he's been terrible in 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty two, fans aren't going to give 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: him that pass. And I get it. You gotta he's 4 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: got to wear it, I guess. And now it's goin 5 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: to win. Welcome into north Side Territory, Foul Territory Networks 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: We are your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: and Patrick, we got a fan favorite, always the mail 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: Bag episode. The fans seem to dig this one. We 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: appreciate you guys sending in your questions via Twitter. Always 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: fun and you know, listen, I think a little of 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: it is fans have similar questions but when similar things 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: are happening on the field. But I think that I 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: think they're important topics and I think they're like, there's 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: a reason they keep asking these questions like these these 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: things matter and and and they are legitimate issues that 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: face the team. Uh so why don't we get at it? 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: Get right out of Patrick? I think we've heard a 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: similar question to this first one before, but I think 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: it's incredibly important. 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, we got Robert Barnard his Twitter handle is Cubs 22 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: and Cards, interestingly enough, So take it away, Robert, Really 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: only one question. 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 3: Will Jed Hoyer be fired after. 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: This? 26 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: Let me clean that one up there. Will Jed be fired? 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: I'll have to paraphrase some of this. Will Jed be 28 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: fired after this year? Or be given one more chance 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five? Obviously there are some factors involved here. 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: Did he try and just couldn't succeed with pickups prior 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: to this year? And will he get support to do 32 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: what's needed financially? I think it's funny hot of that 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: how early in the season we were getting this question, 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: and I think things have improve to a degree where 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: I think the final work product of this year will 36 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: be disappointing and underwhelming, but certainly not like. 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 3: Disaster. 38 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: I think instead of me just kind of repeating some 39 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: of the stuff we've written and talked about before, I 40 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: think side of you of like good insight and reporting 41 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: on how kind of like this front office is already 42 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: looking towards next year, which is sort of like an 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: implicit acknowledgement of that they're going to kind of continue 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 2: down this path, albeit under a lot more pressure next 45 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: year than what they've faced in prior years of this regime. 46 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean the front office continues to make 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: like tweaks and changes. We'll have reporting on that as 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: we continue to dig in. But the reality is Jed 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: Hoyer is acting like he's in charge for next season. 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: Like when when you know you're you're making uh these 51 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: types of decisions when you're the one in charge and 52 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: and kind of shaping the front office, Uh that type 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: of stuff, You're not able to make those types of 54 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: moves that he's he's currently doing with this front office 55 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: if you weren't in charge, right, if you weren't the 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: one that's going to be running things uh next summer. Uh. 57 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: So you know, Jed Jed Hoyer is coming back. It's 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: and and I think I like there's a big factor 59 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: here when we talk about, uh will he get the 60 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: support to do what's needed financially. Listen, he's he's given 61 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: a budget, he's told what he can do. Uh. My 62 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: my dog obviously has some thoughts. 63 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of ownership or the front office. 64 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: Uh, but you know it's clear that you know, I 65 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: think they know. I think ownership knows what they want, right. 66 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: They they want to have someone like Jed Hoyer, who 67 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: will take the budget that he's given, not fight about it, 68 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: not not give a lot of pushback. This is what 69 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: you have, this is how you how we're going to 70 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: make it work? And and and go from there, right, like, 71 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: figure out how to make this work? Can Jed Hoyer 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: do that? I think the question if it doesn't work 73 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: after this next season is who can do a better 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: job of that. I don't think. I don't think we're 75 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: suddenly gonna see Tom Rick gets say well, I guess 76 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: it's time to act like Steve Cohen or well I 77 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: think it's time to act like the La Dodgers. That 78 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: will never happen. It's just not happening. So I think 79 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: you you could see like Jed Hoyer could say, all right, 80 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: well I guess I have to go spend on Juan Soto, 81 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: But then you're not going to see many other moves 82 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: and you're not going to see uh like it. And 83 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: when I say many other moves, I mean he's going 84 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: to be handcuffed for multiple other seasons because he has 85 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: a budget of like two hundred and forty ish million, 86 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: and if you have what is it going to be 87 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: fifty million a year? How how else you fill out 88 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: the roster? Right, Like, how many guys can you have 89 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: at that number? It's just it's hard to do that 90 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: when when the budget isn't the Mets or the Dodgers 91 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: or the Yankees. So so, yes, should he be in 92 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: the hot seat, Absolutely, because there are other teams. He's 93 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: ninth in payroll, right, ninth or tenth in payroll. There 94 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: are other teams doing better jobs. We just we talked 95 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: about the Brewers last episode. There are other. 96 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: Teams doing podcasts. 97 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: Look at the Cleveland Guardians, look at look at the 98 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: Tampa bay Rays, who are having a down season. We 99 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: know this right, there are teams year in and year 100 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: out that are able to compete at a lower cost. 101 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: That's really what Tom Ricketts looks at. Listen to what 102 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: he's said over the years, when when you start to 103 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: bring up money, he pushes back and says, it's not 104 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: just money. Yes, I think he does. He does want 105 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: to kind of mix the two ideas, but not to 106 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: the not to the extent that the Dodgers have done it. 107 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: So when there's a part of this like did he 108 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: try and just couldn't succeed with pickups prior to I mean, 109 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: I think to a certain degree, there were some things 110 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: that didn't, you know, come to fruition. I think that's 111 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: true about every offseason and every front office. Yeah, so 112 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: there wasn't anything that was like you look back and say, 113 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: like if only this player would assigned with the Cubs, 114 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: would be talking like there wasn't. They weren't about to 115 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: sign let's say Corey seeger uh to two years ago. 116 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: They weren't about to sign and these guys, you know, 117 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: with with his injury issues and performance, maybe maybe it 118 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Like they weren't they weren't really like hot 119 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: for Carlos Korea or or Xander Bogart's right, like they 120 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: targeted Dansby Swanson. Uh, they like Trey Turner was headed 121 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: to the Phillies like almost the whole time, right, Like 122 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: these are the things that we could go back and 123 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: forth on. But this is like I I don't think 124 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: there's any big miss swing swing and miss. Uh. This 125 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: is just the way they've looked at trying to build 126 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: this team. I also think like he's generally and have 127 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: said this before, I've written it before. I think you 128 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: have to put him on the hot seat because of 129 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: the record. But if you look at what he's done, 130 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: there's no like glaring mistake where you're like, how could 131 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: you do this? Like the mistakes are the margins, right, 132 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: Tucker Barnhart, Ty Trey Mancini, Eric Hosmer, These sort of 133 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: like small minuscule mistakes, like it's not a big deal. 134 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: Those aren't Like those don't change the course of your franchise. 135 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: You could say, like Ky Jackson, Ferris and Zire Hope 136 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: look like really good prospects. Yeah, Michael Bush looks like 137 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: a really good for his basement, you know what I mean? 138 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: Uh So, So I think there's, uh, there's there's a 139 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: lot of stuff like that. Like Dansby Swanson in June, 140 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: we were talking about is this a disaster contract? And 141 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: now he's gonna put up the same season that he 142 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: pretty much always puts up, Like his three best war 143 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: seasons are the last three seasons. So I I don't know. 144 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: I I don't know. I think there's I think the 145 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: bottom line is, yes, he needs to win. That is 146 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: that is it. That is all that needs to happen. 147 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: I don't think he's been an outright disaster. I don't 148 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: think he's been a home run. I think he's been 149 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: so far, it's been very middling, which is how you 150 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: get a middling record a team that's just outside of 151 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: the playoffs. Look, I mean just you know, on the 152 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: fringes of the playoffs for the bat for the past 153 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: two seasons. In my opinion, I think twenty one and 154 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: twenty two are hard to really evaluate, right because he 155 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: sold off in the middle of twenty one. Yeah, and 156 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: it's like the talent drop off was so much that 157 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: it's hard to say, like, well, he's been terrible in 158 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty two. Fans aren't going to give 159 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: him that pass. And I get it, you can't. It's 160 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: on it's you gotta, you gotta. He's got to wear it, 161 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: I guess. And now it's time to win, you know, 162 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: now it's time to win. No more excuses, no, no 163 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: free passes, nothing. Uh, I don't you know. I know 164 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: that's not satisfactory. 165 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: Well, I think you're right that he has been sort 166 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: of the the good soldier and a company man. 167 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 3: I think that goes long way. 168 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: Internally, I think you can make a convincing case that 169 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: the farm system is in a better place. Certain things 170 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 2: have been modernized, the books are relatively clean. All these 171 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 2: deals are pretty flexible. There are lots of long term 172 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: pieces that have been acquired under his watch. 173 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 3: I think it's just this goes back to, like, what 174 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 3: do the Cubs want to be? 175 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: Like, They're not as good as the Brewers or Guardians 176 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: of playing that sort of game. 177 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: They don't take years to set up exactly. 178 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and then they don't spend like the Dodgers, 179 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 2: and the Cubs aren't cheap. I think it's just if 180 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: you look at where they were in twenty nineteen, I 181 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 2: believe they had the National League's highest payroll. 182 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: It's sort of been kind of flat since then. 183 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: And then you you're always gonna have the Yankees doing 184 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: their thing. You have the Dodgers with this unbelievable TV 185 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: deal and also just like kind of a amazing, kind 186 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: of group of Hall of famers on a number of 187 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: levels that are kind of getting it done there. But 188 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 2: then you have teams like the Phillies whose owner said 189 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: I want to win and will spend stupid money to 190 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: make it happen. You have an ownership change in New 191 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: York where the Mets want to compete toe to toe 192 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 2: with the Yankees financially, which is something that had not 193 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: been part of the landscape. 194 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 3: There. 195 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: You have the Atlanta Braves and their development in their 196 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: new ballpark in whatever suburb that is. It's certainly not Atlanta, 197 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: but they built, they built that up, and that is 198 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: just printing money. You had the Padres with Peter Seidler 199 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 2: before his passing of just totally blowing up the model that. 200 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: Had been in place in San Diego. 201 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: And so the Texas Rangers, they kind of had a 202 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: checkbook World Series trophy. They just said, well, we have 203 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: all this other stuff going on, but we want to 204 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: compete now, and they spent to speed. 205 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 3: Up that whole process. 206 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: And so you go from being like, oh, this should 207 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: be like a top five, top three payroll to where 208 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: these other teams have caught up to or in some 209 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: cases like past the cups just on the financial end. 210 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: And so that's where I think a lot of this 211 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: is tied up and it's hard to separate some of 212 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 2: these ideas. 213 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that comes back to ownership. Is ownership willing 214 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: to get back into the top five realm, I don't 215 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: know if that's happening. I don't expect that for next summer. So, 216 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: you know, but there's a lot of money coming off 217 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: the books, which ties into our next next question. Patrick, 218 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: I know you talked to Scott Boris in LA This 219 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: and I agree with this is from David Pillar. Cody's 220 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger's status determines the off season? So is he 221 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: coming back? Listen? Does it determine the off season? I don't. 222 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if I completely agree with that. Like, 223 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: I don't think it's as black and white as that. 224 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's pretty significant though. It's 225 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: nearly thirty million dollars, And could you know that is 226 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: either added or taken away from the payroll from a 227 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: player that I think is very good in so many 228 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: different ways, and and free agency is weird, and thirty 229 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: million dollars is thirty million dollars? But can you upgrade 230 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: that player would be my question? Or that performance whatever 231 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: it is with that money That Craig Council likes to 232 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: say it's just about finding wins, So maybe it's not 233 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: that player exactly, But can you find that value or 234 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: upgrade that value with thirty million dollars? I think that 235 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: would be my question, and I I've thought about it 236 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: a lot. I don't think it completely crushes the Cubs. 237 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: If he comes back, I think it becomes your off 238 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: season becomes very it becomes more interesting. If he doesn't 239 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: come back, you can do more things, you can kind 240 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: of be more creative, and I think this off season 241 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: has to be about aggression and creativity. 242 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the answer is we don't know if 243 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: he's going to come back or not. 244 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to take Cody at his word when he 245 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: says I told Scott that I don't want to talk 246 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: about this in depth until after the season. Scott Boris 247 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 2: told me, Well, when I meet with Cody at Dodger Stadium, 248 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: we don't talk about business. 249 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: We talk more about how he's doing, how he's playing. 250 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: And I do think there's. 251 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: A degree of truth to that that Scott is a 252 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: baseball junkie. 253 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: I mean, he's at a game almost. 254 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: Every night in southern California between Anaheim, San Diego and 255 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 2: Dodger Stadium, and he does love talking ball. 256 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: I think. 257 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: Scott Farmer's Almanac talking about if it doesn't rain, the 258 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: crops don't grow as part of a narrative that could 259 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: be presented of like if Cody Bellinger didn't play eighty 260 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: one games at Wrigley field, his numbers would look a 261 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: lot different. I think if Wrigley played differently, we already 262 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: would have known that Cody had planned. 263 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 3: To opt out. 264 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: The whole idea of that contract was too opt out 265 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: and try and get a bigger deal. Scott's default setting 266 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 2: is taking his clients to the open market to determine 267 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: their value. 268 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 3: I do think. 269 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: I look at Matt Chapman's deal with the Giants, which 270 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: was a basically a free agent deal in terms of 271 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: the pricing and the structure, like it's a huge score 272 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 2: for Chapman and Boris. I don't know if that will 273 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: kind of embolden Scott to be like, this is kind 274 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: of the appetite is coming back after a winter where 275 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: the baseball industry was fairly cautious outside of a couple 276 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: huge deals, And so that's what I'm saying. I don't know, 277 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: but I think Scott would want that to happen. I 278 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 2: think Cody does enjoy Chicago. He knows he hasn't had 279 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: that huge season, but at least he has another year 280 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: away from that really bad ending with the Dodgers, which 281 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: would help his case. And like you said, the Cups 282 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: are good with this sort of either way. I mean, 283 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 2: if he comes back, I know he's a really good player. 284 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: It's only one year. They like having him round. I 285 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: don't think it's that hard to imagine him putting up 286 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: at least three war and be basically worth almost thirty 287 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: million dollars. I don't think it's an issue that way. 288 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: But if he does, not doubt. They're covered at center 289 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: field with PCA, they're covered in right field with SAA, 290 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: though clearly that's a defensive downgrade, and they trust Michael 291 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 2: Bush to be a first baseman. So where at this 292 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: time last year was like, Wow, the Cubs had all 293 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: these holes and like what are they going to do? 294 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: And like without Code. Now it's like I think they'd 295 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 2: be fine with him leaving and then they have that 296 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: extra money to play with or if he does come back, 297 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 2: Like they're in the business of finding good players right, 298 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: and that he is one of those guys who you 299 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: never know, in like another contract year, could have that 300 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 2: like five to six war MVP caliber season that does 301 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: push them into the playoffs. 302 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt he can put 303 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: up big number like he It's just it's such a 304 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: it's been so up and down for him over the 305 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: course of his career. That and I think they have 306 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: a very specific need in needing power that maybe you 307 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: you'd like to have that money freed up and go 308 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: after someone else, But it's also not guaranteed that you 309 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: fill that spot with anyone better. So it's going to 310 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: be an interesting off season, that's for sure. 311 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 3: Side of it. I like this one as sort of a. 312 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: Counterpoint, another way to think about where things are headed. 313 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: This is from staple Gunner at mass dot gov. The 314 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 2: Cubs are about to have their eighth winning season in 315 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: ten years. All the important talent is back next year. 316 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: There's a ton of young and tradable talent as well 317 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: as payroll space. They are set up for a long 318 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 2: window of contention. Why all the gloom? 319 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: Oh man, wow, I was not expected for you? 320 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 3: Many are. 321 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: Of all the questions we get. I do appreciate some 322 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: optimism because fans generally do like to and it's and 323 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: this is natural, but it's like it's so easy say, like, well, 324 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: they're not in the playoffs. They're bad. And I I 325 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: like sometimes I watching games and seeing plays and seeing 326 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: things happen. I I I let the negativity creep in, 327 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: but pull away for a moment. And it's so there's 328 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: so much nuance to all of this. And and I 329 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: talk about this so much about how one one little 330 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: thing here or there in a few more wings behind 331 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: in May and June, and we're having different conversations right now. 332 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Uh So, So baseball is a very nuanced sport where 333 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: the slightest thing, uh can can change the way you 334 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: look at things. And I would point to uh Cleveland 335 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: from last year to this year to to those feeling 336 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: super negative right now. I would point to Detroit from 337 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: a month ago to now to to those like, how 338 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: how do they start winning? How do baseball is? Weird? 339 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: Things happen? It did not happen for the Cubs this year. 340 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: It looked like it was about to during that road 341 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: But there are two road trips ago right when when 342 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: they just were on fire and it didn't come together. 343 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: And that's not to say like, hey, that that that's 344 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: the only moment that matters. I don't. Well, first of all, 345 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: their their eighth winning season. There's ten games left. I'm 346 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: not there's seventy six, seventy seven and seventy five seventy seventy. 347 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 3: Five games five and we're recording. 348 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I would expect them to, yes, have 349 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: another winning season this year. I believe that will happen. 350 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: It's not guaranteed. They could easily go four and six 351 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: in the last ten, but yes, I I think I 352 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: think the default for people when things aren't going well 353 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: in gloom. That's why you're doom and gloob that's where 354 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: you're hearing doom in globe. And and when I think 355 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: if you listen to Patrick and I, I don't think 356 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: we're all doom and gloom. I think we're very much 357 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: like listen, the Cubs need to get better. They need 358 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: to make the playoffs. That's all we're saying. I don't 359 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: think they're that far off. Like we've talked a lot 360 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: about in various episodes about the good things that Jed 361 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: Hoyer has done. I just talked about some of those things. 362 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: I I I think I agree with this the premise 363 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: that a staple gunner is getting at here in general. 364 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: UH like that they they have the pieces and they're 365 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: set up this offseason to have to build a really 366 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: good team. Now, now the questions are going to be, well, 367 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: where do these players play? Where do where does the 368 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: talent play? Where where? How do you upgrade they're they're stuck. 369 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. I just don't. I think 370 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: there are so many different ways that you can get better, 371 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: and some of them may like maybe a little drastic, 372 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: some of them may be on the margins. I think 373 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: catcher is the obvious spot, and I think the past 374 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: two weeks of Migulamaya kind of going back down to 375 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: earth just to reinf that. I don't think he's a 376 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: bad player. I don't think the first two and a 377 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: half months are representative of who he was as a player. 378 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: I think the past two ish months are kind of 379 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: representative of who he is as a player, which is 380 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: like pretty average on offense, really trusted by his pitching staff. 381 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: But you could upgrade there. Now, how they upgrade is 382 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: going to be the question because it's going to be 383 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: really hard to get significant upgrade if the past two 384 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: plus months are real for Migalamaya, right, So it just 385 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: be having a nice sambo and avoiding those first two months. 386 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: I think uh PCA having these last two months is 387 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: huge for how they look at twenty twenty five. So yeah, 388 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: I agree, I agree it shouldn't be all doom and gloom. 389 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: It shouldn't be. They're so far away from contention. And 390 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: when we add I think the question is how do 391 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: they improve this team? And Patrick and I have talked 392 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: about a lot of different things, but there's a simple 393 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: one bullpen. There's are what Patrick and I are going 394 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: to hammer probably this offseason. Just add another sure thing 395 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: to the rotation to make things feel safe. You know, 396 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: these young guys are pushed down a spot and then 397 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: and then get creative with the position players and you know, 398 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: we'll talk about this in future episodes. I think Ian 399 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: Happ is incredibly undervalued by the fan base. I think 400 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: you have to think outside the bot and improving in areas. 401 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: And I really like Nico Horner as a player, and 402 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: I think you have to consider what's the you know, 403 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: push and pull there of if you if you make 404 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: a move there, you are downgrading defensively, you are That's 405 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: the reality. Because he's the best second basement I've seen 406 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: in right now, he makes with every game that I 407 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: watch him more convinced of it. I just don't know. 408 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: And this is we're going back to Greg Council. You 409 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: got to put together the wins, right That defense is 410 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: valuable he's a valuable player on defense. So are you 411 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 1: gonna upgrade enough on offense that it outweighs that? And 412 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: that would be the question that they're gonna have to answer, 413 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: because outside and kept unless you're getting bold here and 414 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: doing something crazy. And you know, when I say crazy, 415 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: I don't mean stupid. I just mean, like, you know, 416 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: really aggressive. Those are the two obvious spots that there 417 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: are other ways. There are other ways. Maybe maybe they 418 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: want to upgrade Michael Bush. Maybe they want to maybe 419 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: they can get some no trade clauses waved. I don't know. 420 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think outside the box. And then 421 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: you have DH and the Cody Bellinger question, which we 422 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: just talked about. So Patrick, are you all doom and gloom? 423 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 2: You know, I actually appreciate this question because I do 424 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: think we try to think about things from. 425 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 3: A wide range of viewpoints. 426 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: Now, certain people may laugh when they hear us say that, 427 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 2: I honest think there are times, and I'll see this 428 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: in our comments section on the Athletic of that we're 429 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 2: too soft on the Cubs, you know, And I think 430 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 2: that's something like. 431 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 3: Why aren't we hammering them non stop? 432 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: I do try to like understand where people are coming from. 433 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 3: That takes time. 434 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: Like I will acknowledge I wasn't always like great at that, 435 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: but I have, you know, working with you and are 436 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 2: the colleagues at the Athletic of trying to like think about. 437 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 3: The industry and the game in different ways. 438 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: I do think all of the things you just said 439 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: side of are accurate in terms of like building blocks 440 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 2: pieces in place. I think if we were dooming gloom, 441 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 2: we would have been saying fire Jed Hoyer a long 442 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: time ago. I think we've been pretty measured and balanced 443 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: in that regard. And then I you know, there's a 444 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 2: wide range of voices and opinions and outlets out there 445 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 2: that you know, people have choices that you. 446 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 3: Know, and I think there are. 447 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 2: Very optimistic views of the Cubs that are presented at times. 448 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: And then I think, also, like what I try to 449 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: think of someone who I had worked with early in 450 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: my career, you know, he viewed coverage as what is 451 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 2: and he was as a fan but also as a 452 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: media executive of like what is my team doing right 453 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 2: now today to help them win a championship? And I 454 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,239 Speaker 2: think that's the standard that you have to hold them too, 455 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 2: because that's how these people show up to work thinking 456 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: like the people that run these teams, the people that 457 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 2: are competing on the field, the coaches in the dugout. 458 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 3: They all want to win. 459 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 2: And to be honest, like, it's not like we're covering 460 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: the Bill Russell Celtics here. It's not like we're you know, 461 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier with Edmonton Oilers, or like 462 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 2: Joe Montana and the forty nine Ers in the eighties. 463 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: Like this team's won one World Series since nineteen oh eight. 464 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: So there are times when like they're just not going 465 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 2: to get the benefit of the doubt, you know. And 466 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: I think when you look at yes, there is payroll space, 467 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: but let's be honest, our Cups fan is going to 468 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 2: be like happy when they show up to when. 469 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: They show up to MESA next offseason one. 470 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 2: So it was almost certainly playing for one of the 471 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 2: other twenty nine teams. Like, yes, the farm system's good, 472 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: but like, how much impact has it delivered this year 473 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: outside of. 474 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 3: PCA and some moments from a Porter Hodge whatever. 475 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 2: I just think, like we try to be realistic, we 476 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: don't always succeed in terms of like removing all emotion 477 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: and sort of like sarcasm from the but like we 478 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: do try to present things down the middle with analysis, 479 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: with insight, with historical perspective and institutional knowledge and. 480 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: Let you decide. 481 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: And I think we also try to not get too personal, right, Like, 482 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of things is said 483 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: in the press box that we just sort of you know, 484 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 2: we as a group, you know, we'll never make it 485 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: towards prank because it's just not fair that there is 486 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: a even it may not seem like it at time, 487 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: there is an enormous filtering process that goes through by 488 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: the time you listen to this podcast or read our 489 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 2: work on the athletic. 490 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be fair to Staple Gunner, I'm not 491 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: sure if he was talking about us when he said 492 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: wild the Gloom. My assumption is he's talking about the 493 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: fans who are and I explain, like my explanation to 494 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: that is fans are very reactive and they have every 495 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: right to be and they have. This team has not 496 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: made the playoffs in a full season since twenty eighteen, 497 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: haven't won a playoff game since twenty seventeen, Right, so 498 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: I get I get the negativity, Like it's completely fair, 499 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: and that's how fans, fans, it's our job to be, 500 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, like to take it down a notch and 501 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: to have duance. Let let fans be reactive and complain. 502 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 1: I perfectly understand that. Here's a question from George dak Darko. 503 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: What are the plans for Shaw, Matt Shaw, Owen, Casey, 504 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: Kevin ol Contra. Outfield is clearly not going in anywhere? 505 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: He mentions Alexander Canario too. I wouldn't. I would. Yeah, 506 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: outfield is clearly not going anywhere. But what's to say 507 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: any of those guys better? And what's to say Shaw 508 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: isn't better than Swanson or Partis or even Horner. Uh 509 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: I feel like there are a lot of software blocks. Listen, 510 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: I I think you're getting a little like, Yes, what's 511 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: to say any of these guys aren't better than anyone? Sure? 512 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: I think you when when when when you when you 513 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: start talking about this, I think you're underrating all these players. 514 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: It is really hard to be as good as Danesby Swanson, 515 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: to be as good as he's apparatus paradis. It's unfair 516 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: to evaluate him on the month month plus he's been 517 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: with the Cubs. He has put up really good seasons 518 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: for the for this is will be his third year 519 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: in a row of three plus war Uh, maybe more 520 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: than that, he's not as bad defensively as he's shown. 521 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: He's not as bad offensively, which has just kind of 522 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: been average interest since he's shown up. Uh, he's a 523 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: better player than what he's showed. Nico Horner is putting 524 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: together another These are like four win players that we're 525 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: all talking about, so like they're really hard to develop 526 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: a four win player. That that said, I think you're 527 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: going to see all of those guys next year unless 528 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: they're traded. So in my opinion, you're going to see 529 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: all of those guys in the big leagues at some point, 530 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: maybe not probably not opening Day. And I think saw 531 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: my opinion is Shaw's the best of that of those 532 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: guys that he mentioned who he mentioned Shaw, Casey l Contra, right, 533 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: I think Shaw's the best of that group in my opinion. 534 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: I don't think he has a chance to play shortstop 535 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: like I think Dansby Swanson is probably exponentially better than 536 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: him defensively, And I think that needs to really be 537 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: understood how good Dansby Swanson is when he's having a 538 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: basically a league average offense. Season is going to be 539 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: worth four wins because he's elite defensively, and the same 540 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: should be said about Nico Horner and not as important 541 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: of a position, but nearly as important. It's those those 542 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: two guys are just valuable, and I think we can't 543 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: just look at this offensively. Matt Shaw is important though, 544 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: and you need it. I think he's important to the 545 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: future of this team because of his bat. 546 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think part of this season why it was 547 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: a disappointment that there wasn't more of that push internally 548 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: to kind of displace And I guess there's more on 549 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: the pitching side, like why Kyle Hendricks they ran him 550 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: out so often this year, So maybe it's not as 551 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 2: fair on the position player side, like it's not like, oh, 552 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: in case he's gonna displace Cody Bellinger. But I do think, 553 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 2: like we saw this year in prior years, just the 554 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 2: enormous gap between Triple A and the majors that everyone 555 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: says is only getting bigger. So I wouldn't really count 556 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: on like these guys. I'd love to I'm a Cubs 557 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 2: fan or Cubs executive. I'd love to see them like 558 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: pop up next year and make a difference and learn 559 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: and then maybe just go back to Iowa and yeah, 560 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: there's maybe we watched these players too much. It's kind 561 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: of how baseball works. 562 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 3: It's a regional game, same group over and over that 563 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: you kind. 564 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: Of start to see the deficiencies more than the player's strengths. 565 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 3: But like you know, Dansby. 566 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 2: Swans had got paid a huge amount of money after 567 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 2: winning a World Series with the Braves at a premium 568 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: position like exceptional talent. I mean, Paradase was identified by 569 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 2: the Tigers, Rays, and Cups three very different front offices 570 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 2: at three different places of like, well, that guy's got 571 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 2: something and that we need or could really use or 572 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: could help him get to that place like a young 573 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 2: interesting player totally fits. And you know, Nico, I think 574 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 2: maybe this year, like is he gonna be a guy 575 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 2: that hits like twenty twenty five home runs? 576 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: You know, probably not. 577 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 2: Is he a fantastic defender, a great base runner, a leader, 578 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: someone who is like obsessed with baseball and like extremely intelligent, 579 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 2: Yes to all of those things. And so for me, 580 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: I think it's hard to like subtract him from the 581 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 2: mix and think you're gonna wind up that much better. 582 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 3: On the other side, because in part. 583 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 2: Because of how the industry values those guys, right, like 584 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 2: if he's not like a monster offensively, Like, what is 585 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 2: a team gonna give up. 586 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 3: In a deal? 587 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 2: I think the Cubs are certainly going to explore all 588 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: those avenues as well. 589 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 3: They should, but I think it's hard. 590 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: I think it always sounds better in theory to start 591 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 2: dealing guys away and you know, getting some awesome other 592 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 2: player and then you've got young guys to backfill. Like 593 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 2: That's just usually not how it works, particularly in Chicago. 594 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: And I think that's a good one, good transition to 595 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,919 Speaker 2: wrap up here, Sade from our guy bullpen or our 596 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 2: guy our a woman who knows bullpen genius at Cooch 597 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 2: seven to one, seven to one love this idea. 598 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: Should the Cubs target the Brewers manager again this offseason? 599 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 3: To the microphone after. 600 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: That, I think just after every season when when the 601 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: Cubs lose to the part, just hire their manager. That's 602 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: that's the solution. Uh, that's a good one. That's that's 603 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: a funny one to end with. Uh yeah, I the Brewers. 604 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: Yet again, this is not a this is not a 605 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: Milwaukee podcast, but it seems like it all all roads 606 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 1: to lead to American Family Insurance Field. Yes, yes, all right, 607 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: thanks for the levity. There to end it, Pat Murphy 608 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: probably Manager of the year, right, like I think he's 609 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: gonna win that, and Council never has, am I right? 610 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: He never won it, He's never won it. There's always 611 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five Patrick, all right, I love the mail bag. 612 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: I think Patrick enjoys it too. Sure, you guys should 613 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: always bring it with the questions. We appreciate you interacting. 614 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: This shows for you, so we're glad to have you 615 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: all as a part of it. Thanks so much for listening. 616 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: Make sure to rate review, subscribe to north Side Territory, 617 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: and make sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel and 618 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: subscribe to The Athletic where you can read Patrick in 619 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: my work. We truly appreciate all the listeners. We appreciate 620 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: all the people behind the scenes putting this podcast together, 621 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: always grinding through and putting this stuff up whenever we 622 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: come out with new episodes. Thanks so much for listening 623 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: to everyone. We'll be back at it next week. Take care,