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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. Welcome to our classic episode. We're returning

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Speaker 1: to one of our favorite subjects, UFOs or UAP and

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Speaker 1: one of the strangest stories about UFO encounters in modern history.

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Speaker 1: You guys remember Berkshire nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 2: Classic, classic, classic, what a banger? Uh huh summer? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we have sixty nine. Yes, when you got your first realm?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Is this what that song's about?

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Speaker 2: I think it is.

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Speaker 1: It is read the lyrics, everybody, so read the lyrics,

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Speaker 1: really think about it. Numerous people in this area of

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts start seeing strange things in the sky. It's very high, strange,

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Speaker 1: like our palpane is wont to say, and multiple witnesses

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Speaker 1: come forward claiming they haven't just seen something, but they've

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Speaker 1: also been abducted. Right right, So in twenty twenty, we

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Speaker 1: try to figure out what happened.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is like the Kate McKinnon stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she was abductive, but not by the top brass.

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Speaker 2: Let's roll the tape.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Met,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul. Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. Paul, could we get just a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a cree be music, some kind of ominous,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little sciency perfect. Let's start with the stereotypical

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Speaker 1: UFO story. A lone person or a couple is in

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Speaker 1: a remote rural part of the world, usually at night,

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Speaker 1: and they see something strange in the sky. They may

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Speaker 1: even experience a loss of time, their electronics may function

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Speaker 1: in an anomalous way, and days, weeks, months, or in

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Speaker 1: some cases years later, they begin to recall additional details

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Speaker 1: of that experience, of that lost time, and all too

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Speaker 1: often they have no hard proof of what they believe happens,

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Speaker 1: other than, of course, the certitude that something strange occurred.

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Speaker 3: This is very similar to the Barney and Betty Hill

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Speaker 3: story that we covered very recently. That thing that you

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Speaker 3: just described, that that's exactly.

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Speaker 2: It, and wasn't that in fact kind of the sort

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Speaker 2: of genesis of that trope that sorry you're talking about

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Speaker 2: the subject of the Strange Rivals podcast really kind of

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Speaker 2: created so many of these repeating images that we think

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Speaker 2: of today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, especially in the US, at least exactly in the US,

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Speaker 3: and because it originated in nineteen sixty one, or at

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Speaker 3: least that's when the sighting was said to have occurred.

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Speaker 1: So today's question is what does it mean when not

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Speaker 1: a single person or not a couple, but instead multiple

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Speaker 1: people appear to report the same experience, not just the

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Speaker 1: same emotive experience, not you know, not one hundred people

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Speaker 1: saying I was scared, but people said I saw something

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Speaker 1: it looked like this. What happens when their descriptions match

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Speaker 1: and their timeline matches up as well, we may be

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Speaker 1: able to find the answer to this question. Of all places,

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Speaker 1: far western rural Massachusetts, here are the facts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, unless you live somewhere in Massachusetts or in the

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Speaker 3: northeast United States, you probably have never heard of Berkshire

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Speaker 3: or Berkshire County, Massachusetts. It's on the far western side

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Speaker 3: of the state and it is very, very far from

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Speaker 3: like a large city like Boston's. It's kind of in

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Speaker 3: the sticks, shall we say, a bit, a bit of the.

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Speaker 2: Sticks beautiful part of the Sticks though to my understanding.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's it's incredible there. And this area Berkshire County,

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Speaker 3: it's home to a number of small towns. One of

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Speaker 3: the most important and prominent we're going to talk about

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Speaker 3: today is Great Barrington.

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Speaker 1: And this is just just a side note here. This

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Speaker 1: is one of those names that is kind of like

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Speaker 1: a little John name. I don't think you should have

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Speaker 1: have great in his city name because it's it's like

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Speaker 1: doing It's like doing improv and then having one of

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Speaker 1: your character attributes be funny, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's sets expectations high. Barrington is a great place, indeed,

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Speaker 1: but it's not a great place in terms of population.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty small. And that's again another trope that we

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Speaker 1: see in a lot of these narratives, you know, like

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Speaker 1: this is this county or this what was a county?

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Speaker 1: Is one of those places where most people in town

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Speaker 1: know each other or know of each other. In these

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Speaker 1: small towns, the protagonists of our story that we're just

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Speaker 1: about to meet is an outsider. His family. They're considered

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Speaker 1: outsiders because they don't have a long period of ancestry

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Speaker 1: in these towns. And that's something I'll be familiar to

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Speaker 1: anybody from New England. That kind of I would say

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Speaker 1: a mild xenophobia.

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Speaker 2: Not only do they not have a long lineage family

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Speaker 2: history in this part of the country. I believe they

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Speaker 2: had recently moved from New York City, so they were

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Speaker 2: almost like fish out of water type situations. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm adapting to small town life exactly from Queens.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And just to note her, Great Barrington has been

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Speaker 3: around for a long time as a town, and as

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Speaker 3: of just to give you a sense of how small

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Speaker 3: it is, as of twenty ten, the Census Bureau reported

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Speaker 3: that there were just over seven thousand people that lived

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Speaker 3: in that town.

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Speaker 1: And like many small towns, they are further away from

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Speaker 1: metro areas. This community doesn't seem set for explosive population

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Speaker 1: growth or anything. It's been this way for a long

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Speaker 1: time since about the seventeen hundreds, when it was one

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Speaker 1: of the I believe, the original fourteen counties of Massachusetts. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: fast forward hundreds of years. September one, nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: there's a kid named Tom Reid riding in a car

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Speaker 1: late at night. His mother is driving his grandma's riding

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Speaker 1: shotgun and his other brother, Matt, is sitting in the

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Speaker 1: back of the car with him. These kids are probably

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Speaker 1: a little bit tired because it's late at night. They've

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Speaker 1: they're just heading home from their dying room, which is

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Speaker 1: called Village on the Green. Their vehicle, a station wagon,

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Speaker 1: is crossing the Sheffield Bridge when something went wrong.

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Speaker 2: And the doubly fascinating thing about the story is that

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Speaker 2: we have so many first hand accounts of what of

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Speaker 2: these encounters, and this is the one from Reid himself,

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Speaker 2: as he told it in a recent episode of the

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Speaker 2: rebooted Unsolved Mysteries that you can see on Netflix. I

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Speaker 2: was giving my brother a fireball, a little fireball candy.

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Speaker 2: My grandmother turned around to see some lights coming up

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Speaker 2: what looked like from behind the bridge or trees. We

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Speaker 2: all looked at it because it was kind of a

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Speaker 2: self contained glow. It rose up a little bit. It

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Speaker 2: looked like it followed the dirt road, which I'm sure

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Speaker 2: it probably didn't, but it appeared that way because we

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Speaker 2: could see it through the trees. The light started to

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Speaker 2: bleed through once we broke into a bit of a clearing,

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Speaker 2: we could see inside the car because it was dark

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Speaker 2: so the light was flooding inside the car. And then

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Speaker 2: that's when Reid remembers seeing what he described as a

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Speaker 2: white sphere, and his mother also recalls and described it

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Speaker 2: as a disc shaped object, and they estimated it was

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Speaker 2: about one hundred yards long, this thing that they were seeing.

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Speaker 1: At least one hundred yards And just as so a

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Speaker 1: little bit of critical thinking there, we do have to

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Speaker 1: note that these are not trained pilots or anything like that,

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Speaker 1: not saying we don't believe them or they're not giving

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Speaker 1: us her estimate, but it is it is difficult to

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Speaker 1: estimate the true size of something when you don't know

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Speaker 1: the distance, and you don't know how far away you are,

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Speaker 1: you don't know how high up it is. The car

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Speaker 1: lights up with this, it's like the light envelops and

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Speaker 1: consumes the car. And this doesn't feel like the typical

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Speaker 1: light you see shining on Matt Nolan myself. Right now,

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Speaker 1: there's something energetic, almost palpable about it. And then the

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Speaker 1: family recalls an eerie silence followed by a crescendo ing

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Speaker 1: susceress an eruption of wildlife noises, cicadas, crickets, so on,

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Speaker 1: and right as that happens. According to Tom's recollection, they

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Speaker 1: see an amber glow on both sides of the road

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Speaker 1: and wake up three hours later. Yeah, yeah, Reid says.

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Speaker 1: We'll go back to Reid's words here. He says, that

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Speaker 1: was the last thing we really remembered from the station wagon.

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Speaker 1: It came to a stop off the right side of

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Speaker 1: the road. Everything got really calm. It was like he says,

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Speaker 1: being in the middle of a hurricane. There was like

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Speaker 1: a barometric change in pressure. It was just a dead silence.

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Speaker 1: Then there was an eruption of crickets and frogs. It

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Speaker 1: got really loud, and that was it. Then this is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Then we remember bits and pieces of being in like

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Speaker 1: a hangar. Other people were there. It was quite confusing,

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Speaker 1: and when they come to some things are different. First off,

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Speaker 1: they're like a mile away from where they blacked out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's worth really quickly. There are

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Speaker 2: some other articles about this with some more detail about

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Speaker 2: this hangar, and he describes it as like like a

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Speaker 2: Walmart situation, or like you know, like a massive sort

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Speaker 2: of indoor football field almost with fluorescent lights. And let

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Speaker 2: me just go into his description in this article on

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Speaker 2: grunge dot com He describes this amber glow emerging on

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Speaker 2: both sides of the road, and then he was all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden transported to this indoor hangar that was

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Speaker 2: bigger than a football field, and he says, we encountered something.

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Speaker 2: It was definitely not of this world. We had a

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Speaker 2: black and white television at time, and the imagery that

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Speaker 2: we saw on this thing was unbelievable. There were lights

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Speaker 2: and looked like fluorescent tubing inside this hangar. This hallway

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Speaker 2: we had seen was circular with a y configuration, almost

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Speaker 2: to control the flow of traffic. This one room had

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Speaker 2: a bode in wall that was rounded. This is not

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Speaker 2: something that you would have seen in nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 2: anywhere else. I have no idea where I was, but

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Speaker 2: I know that what I saw was very different than

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Speaker 2: anything I've seen today. Fifty years later, he talks about

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Speaker 2: being forced to lie on a table, but jumping up

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Speaker 2: and running away, and he just kind of describes these

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Speaker 2: little glimpses of these rooms and then this facility, I guess,

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Speaker 2: And then they were back in the car and two

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Speaker 2: hours they'd lost time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they'd lost somewhere between two to three hours. More

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Speaker 1: than two hours. I often see it described, But if

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Speaker 1: you round up it's three important point though about that description.

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Speaker 1: That's something that they remember later when they wake up

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Speaker 1: in the car. According to their own accounts, when they

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Speaker 1: wake up in the car, they don't know what's happened.

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Speaker 1: They have just lost time. It is only later that

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Speaker 1: they remember this experience and a hangar, and later that

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Speaker 1: other well, no spoilers. Other people start to corroborate. One

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Speaker 1: big thing they notice though, immediately before they rediscovered these

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Speaker 1: memories of what happened. What transpired during this missing time,

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Speaker 1: is they notice some one thing is amiss with the

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Speaker 1: arrangement of the people in the station wagon. Remember picturing

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Speaker 1: your head, folks, Mom is driving, grandmother is in the

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Speaker 1: shotgun seat, the kids are in the back seat. Now,

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Speaker 1: when they come to in their vehicle, Mom is in

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Speaker 1: the shotgun seat and grandmother is in the driver's seat.

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Speaker 1: Is this a trick of memory? Possibly? Nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 1: was a long time ago. However, it doesn't make sense

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Speaker 1: that she would be in the driver's seat because the

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Speaker 1: grandmother didn't drive.

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Speaker 3: And you know, speaking of tricks of memory, Ben, there's

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Speaker 3: another account that Tom Reid has given where he describes

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Speaker 3: the grandmother upon coming to the grandmother being walking aimlessly

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Speaker 3: outside of the vehicle and the mother being unconscious in

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Speaker 3: the driver's seat, or or the mother at least being

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Speaker 3: unconscious somewhere in the car and the grandmother outside of

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Speaker 3: the car, and then having to get the grimmother back

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Speaker 3: in the car.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that one. And it's it's tough, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's tough to get the right narrative because

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Speaker 1: we've seen both accounts. The one I've seen most often

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Speaker 1: is the description of the seat switching. I agree, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you're right, You're right. The paths diverged there. So

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Speaker 1: the Read family, these four people are the folks most

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Speaker 1: closely associated with this Berkshire's UFO incident or Barrington UFO incident,

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Speaker 1: but they are not the only witnesses alleging they saw

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Speaker 1: something up there in the sky. The local radio station WSBS,

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Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty nine September first broadcast accounts of

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Speaker 1: this event from what from what we know based on

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Speaker 1: witness testimony right or witness stories and accounts. People were

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Speaker 1: calling into the local radio station and it must have

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Speaker 1: been a great night for radio, because you get you'll

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Speaker 1: get one of these accounts. But then when you start

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Speaker 1: getting two, three, four, five, a dozen, it gets more

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Speaker 1: and more difficult to say, Oh, someone's just hallucinating or something.

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Speaker 1: And it's weird because for a long time this incident

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Speaker 1: kind of languished in the public discourse, and it was

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Speaker 1: something you would learn about if you talked with folks

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Speaker 1: at Move On, right, or if you've talked with your

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Speaker 1: ufologist friends until until quite recently Unsolved Mysteries in a

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Speaker 1: Netflix reboot covered this on an episode of their show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I think I recommended this to you

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Speaker 2: a while back. Then. There's an Amazon movie called The

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Speaker 2: Vast of Night, and it's just wonderful. First of all,

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Speaker 2: it's a UFO story takes place in around this time period,

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Speaker 2: like in the sixties, and it has a broadcast component too.

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Speaker 2: Or there's like a switchboard operator that like, here's this

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Speaker 2: crazy frequency and calls into this radio station to kind

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Speaker 2: of report it. And then I can't remember exactly the

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Speaker 2: way it goes, but no spoilers anyway, but it has

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Speaker 2: a very similar vibe, and I think that was actually

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Speaker 2: based on the Kesburg UFO incident, which happened in nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty five in Pennsylvania, but a lot of similarities thematically,

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Speaker 2: and I highly recommend everyone give that movie a shot.

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Speaker 2: It's really cool.

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Speaker 3: I believe, yes, movie is great, and I believe we

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Speaker 3: have an episode on the Kexburg or at least we

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Speaker 3: did a video. Okay, Yeah, that's another great account of

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Speaker 3: something strange like this happening. I just wanted to jump.

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Speaker 3: If you want to watch this, it is on Netflix

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Speaker 3: on Unsolved Mysteries. It's the first season of the new reboot.

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Speaker 3: It is titled Berkshire's UFO.

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Speaker 1: And in this when you check this out, you can

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Speaker 1: hear interviews with Nancy Reid, Jane Green, Tom Warner, Melanie Kirchdorf,

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Speaker 1: for each of whom are people claiming to have encountered

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Speaker 1: something strange. You'll also hear extensive interview sections with Tom.

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Speaker 2: And Matt Reid.

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Speaker 1: They would we can maybe get into this after the break,

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Speaker 1: but they describe what appears to be a physical craft

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Speaker 1: or a strange series of lights, and then some say

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Speaker 1: they remember to some degree being abducted, being taken for

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Speaker 1: a time by something, and then returned to Earth. The

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Speaker 1: reason I'm using the air quotes unabducted will become clear

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Speaker 1: later that's not me being a jerk. Some of the

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Speaker 1: witnesses object to that term. Soon, more reports of bizarre

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Speaker 1: activity arrive in nearby areas, including Sheffield, other small towns

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Speaker 1: in the vicinity, even over the state line in Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: So what happened, we'll tell you afterward from our sponsor

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Speaker 1: will sort of tell you. We'll tell you what they said.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So we started today's episode

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Speaker 1: with a look at the sort of the quintessential UFO

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Speaker 1: abduction trope, which we have traced back, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the help of Toby Ball to the incident covered in

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Speaker 1: his podcast Strange Arrivals. What makes this case distinct? There

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Speaker 1: are a couple of different characteristics. One is that there

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Speaker 1: are multiple witnesses. According to the Barrington Historical Society, there

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Speaker 1: are as many as forty witnesses with varying descriptions and

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Speaker 1: you know, varying credibility I think, or maybe a better

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Speaker 1: way to say it is some are more hesitant to

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Speaker 1: come forward than others. We have examples of them. Look,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can explore some of those examples, some of

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Speaker 1: the non read examples.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that would be great. I think we should start

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Speaker 3: with Tom Warner another Tom. By the way, Tom Reid

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Speaker 3: is spelled Thhom as in Thomas, this Tom is spelled Tom.

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Speaker 3: So Tom Warner was a child at the time, a

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Speaker 3: younger person at the time, and he describes a pretty

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Speaker 3: harrowing situation. Maybe we can start with the beginning and

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Speaker 3: tell it a bit cinematically the way they did on

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Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries, just because it tends to lead to a

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Speaker 3: little more drama here. But he was at a neighbor's

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Speaker 3: house not too far from where he lived, where he

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Speaker 3: was doing some coloring. He was a bit of a

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Speaker 3: young artist, and he was at a neighbor's house coloring

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Speaker 3: with crayons, he says. And there were two sisters, the Shaws,

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Speaker 3: and one of them is Jane, who we get to

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Speaker 3: hear from in the Unsolved Mysteries episode. And this is

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Speaker 3: the account of what Tom says he experienced and what

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Speaker 3: Jane seems to confirm, at least in part. It was

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Speaker 3: labor day, like we said, September first, nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 3: Tom was doing his thing, and he says he walked

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Speaker 3: over to a window and experienced a voice, a disembodied voice,

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Speaker 3: coming to him.

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Speaker 1: Which he calls mental telepathy, which is a lot like

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Speaker 1: saying ATM machine or ven number.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, And that's a whole separate thing that

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Speaker 3: we're going to have to just take here and put

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Speaker 3: put over to the side, right right, because.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't come up in a lot of other accounts.

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Speaker 1: But also also in his defense, he's speaking extemporaneously. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I do want to point out that this Unsolved

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Speaker 1: Mysteries episode is heavily edited.

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Speaker 3: It is it is, so we don't know, as just

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Speaker 3: the consumers of this episode what fully was said. But

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Speaker 3: we do know that he experienced some kind of voice

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Speaker 3: that told him to go home, and he was looking

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Speaker 3: out the window and said go home. And obviously this

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Speaker 3: scared him. It would probably freak any of us out

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Speaker 3: experiencing something like that. And he told his friend Debbie Shaw,

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Speaker 3: who's the sister of Jane Shaw, that he had to leave.

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Speaker 3: So here's a quote from him. So I started bolting

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Speaker 3: out the door. I could feel this energy that was

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Speaker 3: inside me that was like fear from the mental telepathy

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Speaker 3: that I just experienced. And I was running full speed

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Speaker 3: and I remember just feeling like I was flying at

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he describes like running but not going anywhere,

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Speaker 2: like it's almost I mean, I think it's probably the

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Speaker 2: most dismissive thing you could ever say to anybody that

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Speaker 2: shares a story like this, Like are you sure you

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Speaker 2: weren't dreaming? But a lot of these details do feel nightmarish, sure,

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Speaker 2: like dream like idea of like running from an inescapable

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Speaker 2: larger than life force and not being able to get away,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But that's what he describes,

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Speaker 2: he says, like paralysis just so, and allegedly Jane Shaw

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Speaker 2: saw all of this go go down, but it's it's

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Speaker 2: interesting to me because she's describing seeing something that I

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Speaker 2: don't know how you can really quantify. And he was

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Speaker 2: like running right here in place, just constantly for about

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Speaker 2: five minutes. He was running in place, I know, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, yeah, what is that like

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Speaker 2: literally running in place? Like jogging or like a right yeah,

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Speaker 2: or like a treadmill. You know that's interesting. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to picture this.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, just imagine in the Unsolved Mysteries show,

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Speaker 3: they do a recree a recreation of this, and it's

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Speaker 3: just someone levitating just above the ground but running furiously

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Speaker 3: as though they you know, don't realize that they're stuck

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Speaker 3: in one position.

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Speaker 1: Just for the just for the visual image to give you,

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Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists imagined in so many cartoons when a

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Speaker 1: character begins to run really quickly and just for a

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Speaker 1: second they're furiously running in the air, but they're not

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Speaker 1: going anywhere, and then they zip off. And that's, of course,

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Speaker 1: that is not to be dismissive of what Tom is

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Speaker 1: saying here, because another thing that makes it distinct is

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Speaker 1: we have a neighbor, a separate person, saying that they

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Speaker 1: saw what he was experiencing. And he also said that

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Speaker 1: he was receiving assurances from this voice in his head

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Speaker 1: that let him know kind of the same way that

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Speaker 1: a veterinarian talks to an animal when they're giving it,

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Speaker 1: you know, like giving it a shot or checking it

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Speaker 1: for fleas or something, and said, Okay, it'll be over

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Speaker 1: in just a minut.

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Speaker 3: That's a great way to describe it. I didn't think

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Speaker 3: about it that way. That's that's a perfect way to

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Speaker 3: describe it.

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Speaker 1: And Jade also has a quantitative aspect to her to

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Speaker 1: her description right, because she doesn't get hit with a beam,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't hear any weird voice. She's just watching very

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Speaker 1: strange stuff happen to her neighbor.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, exactly, So she's just an observer, and she describes,

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Speaker 3: she talks about getting hit by like him being in

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Speaker 3: a beam in a light, some some kind of light

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Speaker 3: surrounding him and this is what this is what Tom says.

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Speaker 3: He's he even says, I was running, but I wasn't moving.

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Speaker 3: I turned and a UFO dropped right out of the

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Speaker 3: sky in front of me. This beam that we're describing

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Speaker 3: came on me. And as the light was on him,

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Speaker 3: he said that his arms got jerked back to the

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Speaker 3: to the back of him. Basically, if you imagine at

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Speaker 3: the shoulders the arm, your arms being stretched out and

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Speaker 3: then behind you as far as they can, and you

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Speaker 3: know that to me just would be uncomfortable and almost

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Speaker 3: as if there's a force being applied or something to

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Speaker 3: the front of him so that his arms are going

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Speaker 3: back or he's being pulled. And then he says, my

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Speaker 3: hands jerked back, and it's like the air got sucked

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Speaker 3: out of me. And that is when Jane comes through

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Speaker 3: and says, she's describing this light that came around him,

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Speaker 3: and the next thing I know, she says, he disappeared,

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Speaker 3: and the onlookers, which would be Jane Shaw, Debbie Shaw

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Speaker 3: and assuming assumingly the parents of the Shaws if they

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Speaker 3: were present, we'd I don't I don't have that information.

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Speaker 3: They could not find Tom.

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Speaker 1: He disappeared and for about the span of seven minutes

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Speaker 1: or so. That's that's the quantitative stuff we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: She puts a number on this and she says, you know,

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Speaker 1: Tom says the next thing he knows, so he loses

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Speaker 1: a little bit of time here. It sounds like he

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Speaker 1: is being laid down on the other side of his property,

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Speaker 1: and he seems to say it was kind of gentle,

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Speaker 1: like the way you would lay a baby down onto

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Speaker 1: the ground. By the time he reappears, Jane says, it's

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Speaker 1: been seven minutes. This is happening again. Just emphasize this.

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Speaker 1: This is happening around the same time, at least the

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Speaker 1: same day that that the Reed family is running into

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Speaker 1: an incident on the Sheffield Bridge. But Tom's not the

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Speaker 1: only Tom and Jane are not the only people involved.

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Speaker 1: I think we mentioned a little bit earlier. Melanie Kirchdorf

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Speaker 1: for her story is pretty interesting too. It is not

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Speaker 1: sponsored by dairy queen. But Darey Queen does be rolling

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Speaker 1: this story.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Melanie and her sister and mother and father were

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Speaker 3: in They were in a vehicle, and they were at

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Speaker 3: Lake Mansfield, which is roughly two miles from the Great

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Speaker 3: Barrington area, and they were enjoying ice cream. They were

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Speaker 3: just going to hang out at that lake and get

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Speaker 3: their dairy queen on. And this is what Melanie says,

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Speaker 3: My father backed into the parking lot and this brilliant,

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Speaker 3: bright aura came around, and the father looked up and said,

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Speaker 3: holy sh And she describes how her father was excited

433
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: by seeing this thing and he wanted to just chase it.

434
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: He wanted to find out what it was. And I

435
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 3: think many of us listening can probably identify with that

436
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: feeling of once we actually get a chance to see

437
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: a light in the sky that we can't explain, we

438
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: very much want to explore it as long as we can,

439
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: you know, I guess until the fear creeps in. But

440
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: the mother, you know, was saying, oh, no, it's probably

441
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 3: just a shooting star. But for some reason, Melanie understood

442
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 3: that it was not a shooting star and it was

443
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: not something they should pursue. And the father takes off

444
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: chasing it with everybody in the vehicle, and Melanie describes

445
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: how she and her sister were shaking back there with

446
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: their dairy queen cones, and her sister doesn't seem to

447
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: remember anything after that moment, but Melanie apparently experienced something

448
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: similar to Tom, at least somewhat similar to Tom, some

449
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: kind of abduction experience.

450
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: Again, they don't really care for the a word, and

451
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: Tom doesn't.

452
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he describes like a lot of the accounts as

453
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: like being overblown and sort of misrepresented, but he does

454
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: describe being taken to a place, and so does Melanie.

455
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, though, is the term abduction inherently loaded?

456
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: Like I guess that's up for debate, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally,

457
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: Like we'll get to it. Is it a matter of semantics?

458
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: Right?

459
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: Is it splitting hairs? But just to show up some

460
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: of these non read uh non read stories or experiences,

461
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: Melanie did as you say. Matt maintained that her sister

462
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: didn't remember anything, but in her interviews she says she

463
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: remembered stuff. She just doesn't say whether. She doesn't say

464
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: when she remembered it, which is very important folks, but

465
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: she says she remembers being on a ship. She remembers

466
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: being in a room with people who were all young,

467
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: specifically child age, right, and she would watch them disappear

468
00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: one by one, And then she says, it's interesting something

469
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: common with the read account. A more extreme version, she says,

470
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: she woke up and she was at that lake that

471
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Matt just mentioned by herself, and she had to walk home.

472
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: And just for the record, at the time, Melanie Kirchdorf

473
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: is fourteen years old. Let's loop Tom back in Tom,

474
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: who just per his account, disappeared in his yard and

475
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: came back seven minutes later. Tom says that he also

476
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: remembers a ship, right. He also remembers some sort of

477
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: destination who was taken to. And what's more, he says

478
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: he saw fourteen year old Melanie Kirchdorf on the ship

479
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: for her part, and I'm trying not to be dismissive here,

480
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: but for her part, she says, and this makes me

481
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: think they're being sincere and honest. She says she doesn't

482
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: remember seeing him in this place, right, but that when

483
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: they met in person, il as they say, she felt

484
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: an instant connection to him and the thing about an

485
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: instant connection. I mean, I love Cloud Atlas as much

486
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: as the next person. Thing about it instant connection is

487
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: it cannot be quantified. And instant connection is not evidence.

488
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: It's not and they didn't know each other at the time, true,

489
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: But that instant connection that Melody describes, Tom describes remembering

490
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 3: her eyes from that ship, from being on that ship

491
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: and connecting somehow with her eyes and remembered that aspect

492
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: of the whole situation. But the thing about this, We've

493
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: got three young people who describe fairly similar stories of

494
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: experiencing light and then being taken somewhere and then being

495
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: returned later on.

496
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to be apostle, jostler or whatever here,

497
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: But the thing is, is it not more accurate for

498
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: us to say what we have are three separate people

499
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: who are recalling events that occurred when they were children

500
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine.

501
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: I think both. I think both are true. They're recalling

502
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 3: events that happened in nineteen sixty nine, but they are

503
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: also recalling events that they believe are true. It feels like.

504
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: Right right, But I'm saying, like, did they We don't

505
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: find accounts of them as children.

506
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: Say, there's no journal entry from that day that was

507
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: written down the day of or immediately after. I agreed,

508
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: I would one hundred percent agree to that. So let's

509
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: take those young people's experiences, whatever they were, or remembrances

510
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: of experiences, and put them to the side for a

511
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: moment and jump to a totally different account, one that

512
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: is told by Jane Green, another witness who experienced something

513
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: while she was on the highway with a friend traveling.

514
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: I think she was north of Great Bearington, traveling south

515
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: towards the town and she saw something on the highway.

516
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: There's a lot of Tom's and Jane's in this story.

517
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. I did a uh I

518
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: like how you said that with the air of its Chinatown.

519
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: Jack as Massachusetts baby.

520
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: So oh gosh, the emails I feel a disturbance in

521
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: the correspondence for us. But there's there's a really interesting,

522
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: uh interesting phenomenon that is probably more suited to brain stuff.

523
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: I can't remember if I did it on there about

524
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: the rise and fall generationally of popularity of certain names

525
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: and it is cyclical.

526
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: Uh so.

527
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: That a story for another guy.

528
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: Wait, yes, Thomas and Jane, Thomas and Matthew in a

529
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: in a good Catholic place like Massachusetts. Come on there,

530
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: they're gonna be.

531
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: Everywhere, They're gonna be. H. It's it's a common name, right.

532
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,239
Speaker 1: Uh So Jane Green different from Jane Shaw. It's us

533
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: after dark right, the sky the sun has westered, which

534
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: is where you never get to use. And Jane is

535
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: with her friend in a vehicle. They're traveling from Stockbridge

536
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: to Great Barrington, Stockbridge being another town in Massachusetts. Jane

537
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: sees a bunch of lights ahead, and she is to

538
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: be absolutely fair in multiple portrayals. She seems to be

539
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: the most skeptical of our first hand witnesses because she's, Yeah,

540
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: when she sees a bunch of lights ahead, she makes

541
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: the assumption that a lot of us would make, which

542
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: is cops or a car accident or a fire, you

543
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's where you see a lot

544
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: of roadside lights. Maybe construction.

545
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 3: But I like the way you said that. It was

546
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 3: like cops, like, oh, no, slow down? Would do oh?

547
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: Come on? Like if you're this, no, we have l

548
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: e os in the in the audience today.

549
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: Law enforcement officers, right, yeah.

550
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: Sorry, law enforcement officers. And one thing I think a

551
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: lot of non like a lot of civilians, a lot

552
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: of non l eos encounter when when you see a

553
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: policecar with sirens on, your first assumption, right is the

554
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: check to make sure that it's not you, like, how

555
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: fast am I going? Our windows down? And that doesn't

556
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: mean everybody's automatically a criminal. Is just a gut reaction

557
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: that we're programmed to have. And so she thinks, she thinks, okay,

558
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 1: there's something happening down the road, right, and she doesn't

559
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: think aliens or anything like that. But the lights are

560
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: so bright that she has to pull over. She can't

561
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: safely drive, and other cars are on the road, which

562
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: is different from a lot of again stereotypical UFO stories

563
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: that a car in front of her pulls over too,

564
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: and then Jane and her friend exit the vehicle to

565
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: see what's going on. Because we all have that kind

566
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: of vicarious morbidity with car accidents.

567
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: The rubbernecking is what they call right, right, that's the

568
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: reason that.

569
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: That's the reason that traffic jams follow car accidents. It's

570
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: not because the road is impaired, it's because everybody has

571
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: this sort of sick inclination to slow down.

572
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: And watch yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, for sure, we

573
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: all have that. I want to I want to look

574
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: at one detail here just before we move forward. I

575
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 3: think we've all had this experience where you're driving either

576
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 3: pretty early in the morning or as dusk is occurring,

577
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: or just as the sun is setting, where the sun

578
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: is at an angle, and you're driving on a road

579
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: that's probably easter it's east or west definitely, where the

580
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: sun just appears to be directly in your field of view.

581
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: Suns in Atlanta, there are several streets where it happens

582
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: to me a lot, and I'm just this is the

583
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 3: only thing I can imagine where there's so much bright

584
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: light entering the windshield that you are unable to continue driving,

585
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: or you have to drive so slowly an attempt to

586
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 3: cover in some way to continue on safely.

587
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: It happens to me on the Interstate sometimes when traffic

588
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: is crazy and I like, I don't know what to do.

589
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, do I pull over like it's not gonna

590
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: go away, that better just power through it, or do

591
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 2: I wait for the position of the sun to move.

592
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: I mean, it is, You're right, it's debilitating and it's

593
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: very scary.

594
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: Well, just imagine that amount of light or the equivalent

595
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: of that amount of light occurring at night. Yeah, and

596
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 3: still being in front of your vehicle where you can't

597
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: you can't continue on, you feel like you can't continue on.

598
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: And we don't have any information about Jane Green's eyesight,

599
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 3: right or like well, whether or not she can drive

600
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: with or without corrective lenses, or how light may affect

601
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 3: her vision, because it does affect our vision differently, each

602
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: of us individually at night. But still just trying to

603
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 3: imagine that and then imagining that there is that other

604
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: person or vehicle full of people in front of her

605
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: that experienced the same thing. That's very very important here,

606
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: and we have we actually have a quote from Jane

607
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 3: Green from that Unsolved Mysteries episode.

608
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: This huge object floated right there and I couldn't see

609
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: the end of it from the right or from the left.

610
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 2: It was immense and most of all, there was no noise.

611
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: That shit. That tracks right with the other account the

612
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: idea of this like calm before or like being in

613
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: the eye of the hurricane or whatever, where everything just

614
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: takes on this eerie calm. Back to the quote, there

615
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: was no motor, there was nothing. It was just there

616
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: and these lights were coming and I just looked at it,

617
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: and within a period of seconds it lifted up, went

618
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: this way, lifted up again, and went over the mountain.

619
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 3: And she's just she's using your hands to describe in

620
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 3: that quote that it just it went. It went vertically,

621
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: then horizontally forbid, then vertically again. I want to hear

622
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 3: the account of the person who was driving in front

623
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: of Jane Green and her friend, because if there's if

624
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: that person, if that person is a witness and has

625
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: a very similar story than my goodness, I don't know,

626
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 3: it would make me believe it a whole lot more

627
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: if it wasn't for Jane Green's statements about what you said,

628
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 3: ben her at least self identification as a non believer

629
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 3: at the time.

630
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, going back to my earlier point about some witnesses

631
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: being more reticent to retrace their stories or to go

632
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: on those sorts of programs like Unsolved Mysteries, we don't

633
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: know who else saw something and decided not to report

634
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: it if those people were there, And to your point, Matt,

635
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: what's interesting about Jane is she does describe herself as

636
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: a skeptic. Flying saucers are Blogney a lot of people say,

637
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: like a lot of people in this area of the

638
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: country seemed to say balogney pretty frequently. It's like the

639
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: radio friendly version of BS. So anyhow, this has changed

640
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: her mind, This tithing, she can't explain. She tells her

641
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: spouse and he says, you know, go go tell the

642
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: radio station WSPS. So she finds a guy named Tom Ray.

643
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: He's the director of the radio station at the time,

644
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine. She tells him. He starts to

645
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 1: laugh and says, okay, well even drinking, you guys spend

646
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: time one on you got space drunk and which is

647
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: a word we just made up? So he says, you know, well, okay,

648
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: calm down. It's probably swamp gas, which is of course

649
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: the UFO version of It's probably the wind.

650
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: Ye And it's all a dream.

651
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: I used to read Word Up magazine and sorry, that's

652
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: for the hip hop fans. But but she stix to

653
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: her guns. We don't know what the other people in

654
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: those cars may have seen. And if the lights were

655
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 1: so bright such that someone could not drive, then other

656
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: people would have noticed it, even if they were in

657
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: their homes near the road, you know what I mean.

658
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and this is really important that she

659
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: went to the radio station to tell someone, no matter

660
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: what the reaction was, she was you know, there should

661
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 3: be an account of that. There should be records and

662
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: that we can look at. And what we're going to

663
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 3: do after a word from our sponsor is just look

664
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: at what evidence do we have outside of witness statements

665
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: from people who said they saw something.

666
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: And we're back. So that was our That was all

667
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: the first thing that sets this incident apart from many

668
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: other alleged UFO sightings. Multiple witnesses, many as many as

669
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: forty will tell you where we got that number in

670
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: a moment. But we're going to go to your point, Matt,

671
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: about the radio station, because there are numerous accounts contemporaneous accounts,

672
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: which means accounts that occur at the same time as

673
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: this event. There are numerous contemporaneous accounts of people calling

674
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: that local radio station on the same night to report

675
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: something wonky. Jane Green went to the director because she

676
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: was familiar with the guy, but other people were just

677
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: calling in. Unfortunately, no audio recordings of those calls exist today,

678
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: and it also seems that some of these witnesses we

679
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: explored for just there. Some of those forty witnesses came

680
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: forward later after hearing about reports from Reed or someone else. Additionally,

681
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: if you look at local law enforcement, their records show

682
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: this was a quiet night, even for a quiet town.

683
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: There are two incidents on the books for that evening.

684
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: One is good news. There was a woman who was

685
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: reported missing and she was later found that day September one,

686
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine in Stockbridge. And two there was a

687
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: guy who called the cops to complain about mysterious people

688
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: throwing beer cans and trash in his yard. So he's

689
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: calling about a dumpster problem, about littering. With those two reports,

690
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: you would think that a massive object in the sky

691
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: displaying bright lights, altering the behavior of wildlife, levitating people,

692
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: and so on would also be something that local law

693
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: enforcement wrote down in their log of the evening if

694
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: they took it seriously.

695
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 3: But they do have a report of a woman who

696
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 3: went missing and then was found, just like those kids

697
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 3: like Tom went missing for about seven minutes and then

698
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: he came back.

699
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: Very good, very good point. Another distinction that often gets

700
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: reported in this case as a as a way of

701
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: lending credibility to the witnesses or experiencers as they're often called.

702
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: Is this Tom Reid, who is kind of our protagonist

703
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: in this story. He took a polygraph test and he

704
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: passed it. What we mean when we say passed it

705
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: is that the person administering the polygraph test felt that

706
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: he was giving truthful answers to those questions. Doesn't prove

707
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: that he saw stuff, but it proves that he believes it,

708
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: like it proves he's not lying, unless, of course, he

709
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 1: is gaming the polygraph tests. Because it is far from

710
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: a solid diagnostic tool, it's kind of ridiculous that it's

711
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: still used as often as it is.

712
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 3: It's funny how the whole polygraph test concept really is

713
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: just a series of traps to try and get somebody

714
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 3: to confess to something by making them think that you

715
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 3: know that they're lying, including the new chair mechanisms, because

716
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: like the clenching of the butt and tightening of the keg,

717
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 3: there's all there's all kinds of ways to try and

718
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: beat this thing, and then all new ways to try

719
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: and beat the beating of it. It's a it's a

720
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: fascinating thing.

721
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: So say, I'll take my polygraph, but I'll only do

722
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: its standing so you get away, so you can get

723
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: away with the thumbtack in your shoe and then flex

724
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: and flexing your kegs.

725
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 2: Oh, flexing the kegs, the old holden in the p

726
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: jostly in the apostles and flexing the kegs.

727
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: That's the takeaway.

728
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: But like it's we've talked about the fallibility of polygraphs

729
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 2: a lot, like over the years on the show, because

730
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: it is, you know, like it's not even fully admissible, right,

731
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 2: like in a courtroom situation, or it's considered kind of

732
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: a little bit dubious.

733
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it really shouldn't be, because it's because it's

734
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: far from full proof, right. And there are still organizations,

735
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: of course, that require as part of a background investigation

736
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: the administration of a polygraph test, but that I would

737
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: argue is sort of a a legacy thing, or it's

738
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: a framework for people who are very proficient interrogators to use,

739
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: Like the people in a lot of investigations or background checks,

740
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: the people who are using a polygraph test are usually

741
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: going to be good enough at discerning folks true intentions, motivations,

742
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: and beliefs that they probably don't need a neat little

743
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: gadget on the side. They can probably just cold read

744
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: the crap out of you, but you know, it makes

745
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: it official. They're needles and suction gps and stuff.

746
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 3: Correct me if I'm wrong. Was it an episode of

747
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 3: The Wire where they do a thing with a copier,

748
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 3: They get a guy over by. I think you're Emili

749
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: convince them that it's a lie detector and they make

750
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 3: copy of different things.

751
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: And I think you're right. That might be a wire.

752
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, psychological influence is really what it is.

753
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, like an E meter. But the shots fired,

754
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: I guess.

755
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: But look.

756
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: Here, they're very important things. This is running all along,

757
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: but they're very important things.

758
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 3: We have to.

759
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: Clarify when we ask what may or may not have happened. First,

760
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: the Reed brothers claim they have seen UFOs before this time,

761
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: and it's something that the Unsolved Mysteries episode in particular

762
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: does not cover. In fact, they believe this was the

763
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: third time they had seen a UFO. They said they

764
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: have four encounters total, one in nineteen sixty six, one

765
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, the famous nineteen sixty nine incident

766
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: with mother and grandmother, and then a fourth experience by

767
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: Matt Reid alone in two thousand and nine in Indiana.

768
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: But Noel, you raised an interesting point that off air,

769
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: that the story of the Reed family and UFOs may

770
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: start before nineteen sixty six.

771
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. The Reed family has sort of a

772
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: history of UFO sightings. Back in nineteen fifty four, Nancy

773
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: and Howard, who were the parents of the Reed kids,

774
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: had an experience of their own. Nancy was fifteen, and

775
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: she and her mother and her brother and her brother's

776
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: girlfriend had rented a cabin at a place called Moosehead

777
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: Lake in Massachusetts, and they awoke in the middle of

778
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: the night to a streaming light situation, and they claimed

779
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 2: to have seen squat pudgy figures standing in the room

780
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: watching them in silence. And this really does sound like

781
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 2: a sleep paralysis situation. Nancy claims that she was unable

782
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: to move, but could feel her body moving as though

783
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: it was being moved by some force. Some force was

784
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: moving her legs, and then all of this kind of

785
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: faded when the sun came up, but she felt nauseous afterwards,

786
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: and you know, and then the Suns had an experience

787
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: like I think five or six years before the most

788
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 2: famous one in the car where they saw these like

789
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: orbs of light come into their bedroom. It's just interesting, Like,

790
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 2: you know, we've talked about the fallibility of memory and

791
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 2: you know the idea of not implanting yourself with memories

792
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: or whatever. But that's certainly something that we know can't happen.

793
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: But it's interesting that this is like a generational thing

794
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: within this family. Like does that mean it's more credible

795
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 2: or does it mean it's less Like is this something

796
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 2: that maybe mom told the kids about growing up and

797
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: it was just part of their world and it was

798
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: like something they wanted to be a part of.

799
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know. Well, for the true

800
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: believers in the audience, it may mean that this family

801
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: is targeted for one reason or another because of their

802
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 3: DNA or for some other reason that we just don't know.

803
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 3: But for the more skeptical it would mean a completely

804
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:15,959
Speaker 3: different thing, right.

805
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's what I was saying off air before

806
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: we started rolling on this. That's the thing that gets me.

807
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: There's a rorshack ink blot to this kind of thing.

808
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that you guys are bringing this up

809
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: on air and it didn't just die or behind the

810
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: scenes conversations, because we're going to see that as a

811
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: common thread, and we already have. I would argue, psychologists

812
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: may say perhaps the mother was knowingly or unknowingly manipulating people.

813
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: But I also believe I can't remember if I said

814
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: this before we start rolling. But I also believe that

815
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: it's woefully unhelpful to try to describe intention or motivation

816
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: to these folks without studying them, right, Like, if you

817
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: haven't met if you haven't met Nancy Reid, then you

818
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: really it's unfair to her and to her family to

819
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: say that she's tilting the scale. But it's also unfair

820
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 1: to ourselves not to acknowledge that is a possibility. So again, yeah,

821
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of an eye of the will hold her thing.

822
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 1: The second part here is that the second clarification is

823
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: that Tom Reid in particular feels his story has been

824
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: massively sensationalized and perhaps his experience has therefore been exploited

825
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: or cheapened. He describes a pretty shady editing process that's

826
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: familiar to any of us who have worked it all

827
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: in the world of reality television or checked out our

828
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: episode on that maybe frank imbiting. Maybe he says something

829
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,919
Speaker 1: completely you know, completely valid and sincere then has taken

830
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: out of context, and they've got some really like weekly

831
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: World News esque vo bookending it. You know, he particularly

832
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: like he's appeared on a number of different shows. He's

833
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: been on something called Paranormal Paparazzi, which I haven't seen,

834
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: Alien Mysteries, And he says that these producers, these companies

835
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: promised to take his story seriously, aka treat it with

836
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: respect before they went on air, and they exaggerated everything.

837
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: And one of those one of those big things that

838
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: he objected to, specifically was terminology, the use of the

839
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 1: word abductions. He says he never uses that word, and

840
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: he makes a good point because he feels it unfairly

841
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: characterizes his family. He says, you know, we're credible in

842
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: our accounts. We're not a bunch of raving lunatics. Lunatics,

843
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: by the way, etymologically is interesting. It means walk taking

844
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: long walks under the moon.

845
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 2: Right basically, yeah, well the idea of the moon like

846
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: being a source of madness or something, right, And it's

847
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 2: very interesting. No, what we were kind of to a

848
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 2: little earlier, like is this just an issue of semantics?

849
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: But it's true when you're when you're doing sort of

850
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: a loaded type UFO sort of like sensationalized story. Yeah,

851
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 2: you're gonna throw around terms like abduction and grays and

852
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, And it doesn't necessarily mean

853
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 2: the words themselves are loaded, but it's all about like

854
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: the context and the way the story is portrayed. And

855
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 2: I think that's what he took issue with, was the

856
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 2: editing and like the way it was sort of characterized.

857
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: But you're on a show called UFO Paparazzi. I mean,

858
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 2: what do you think is going to happen?

859
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: That's the problem. Yeah, I mean it's somewhere between incredibly

860
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: dismissive and disrespectful, you know what I mean, Like adding

861
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: in some crazy mood sound effects or something, it cheapens it.

862
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: But anyway, you don't malign the mode, my friend, don't.

863
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm just saying misused in.

864
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: I agree, And I was telling you guys off air.

865
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 2: I listened to a podcast called lights Out that discussed

866
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: this story, and most of it it was well done

867
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: and I was able to check out, you know, most

868
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 2: of the stories, and they tied to sources that I

869
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 2: read and that we've discussed. But there was this whole

870
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 2: account of like these alien beings in the Walmart, you know,

871
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 2: hangar situation with like almond shaped heads and like limbs

872
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 2: like bamboo and like mushroom colored skin. And I didn't

873
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 2: find accounts of that anywhere like it. Certainly I don't

874
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,479
Speaker 2: believe was anything that read spoke of. So that felt

875
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: like some real stylin. And hey, creators of that show,

876
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 2: if you hear this, I'd love to hear your sources,

877
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 2: because it certainly wasn't sighted. And I googled the hell

878
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 2: out of it and couldn't find any mention of these things.

879
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: Style it on them. Yeah, the idea of credibility and

880
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: legitimacy is crucial here. It's fundamentally important because this is

881
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 1: a controversial account of an experience. Right there is good

882
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: news for the true believers. It's a relatively small piece

883
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: of good news, but it gives an air of legitimacy.

884
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, the story hit a milestone. The local

885
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: historical society, the Great Barrington Historical Society, decided they would

886
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: recognize this incident as a quote official historical event. The

887
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: director of this society, one Debbie Opperman, said, quote it's

888
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: a significantly historic event because check this part out, because

889
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 1: it's an event that was important to many people in

890
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: South County at the time, which is a kind of

891
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: a replacement for that Berkshire County area. So they're not

892
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: saying we believe aliens are real. They're saying, in the

893
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: history of our community, this is a big event because

894
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people were involved, you know what I mean.

895
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then the plaque reads in a way that

896
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: surely seems to offer some belief, you know, or legitimacy

897
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 2: to the accounts, right, but.

898
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 3: It's also over the top. I'll just read what it says.

899
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 3: The plaque reads the official induction of our nation's first

900
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 3: off world UFO Incident.

901
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 2: Off world slash uf all world, I mean, clearly sort

902
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: of meant to be like a tourist draw perhaps right,

903
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: like a roadside oddity.

904
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: And it's not like they'd never heard of the Roswell

905
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 3: crash or oh one of the other things. Like some

906
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 3: of these events became big news.

907
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: Even Barney Hill.

908
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: Is this sort of like a best cup of coffee

909
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: in town situation. You know, it's like, Nick, can you

910
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 2: really quantify something that's that objective or subjective? Rather?

911
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that old Uncle Tupelo joke? Like the

912
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: fourth best country band in Missouri or something, or in

913
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: Saint Louis that I like it.

914
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: But this was you know, this wasn't This wasn't met

915
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: with universal excitement from the community. Right it was was

916
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: definitely controversial, and folks you know, tagged it up, vandalized it,

917
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 2: and then recently last year in June, on June the fourth,

918
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: it was removed. And I've seen Reid commenting on this,

919
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: and he actually petitioned the city to not do that

920
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: because he he found it to be legitimizing his story

921
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: and his family's legacy or whatever right to give it

922
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 2: some historical theft. But it does feel to me a

923
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: little more like a bit of an opportunistic move on

924
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 2: the city's part.

925
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's so their official reasoning, and some of

926
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: this is probably continuing through courts. It's been slowed because

927
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: of the pandemic. Their official reasoning is that it was

928
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: it's a property dispute, like where can the mind meant

929
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: be legally located? We should also say Tom Reid is

930
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: one of those private supporters who raised money to build

931
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: this obelisk. It's snobilisk.

932
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 3: Uh.

933
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if I were a stranger driving through

934
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: this town for the first time.

935
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 3: I would stop and look at that, you know, think

936
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 3: of a mothman statue.

937
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: Come on, God, that guy's thick, has a six pack,

938
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: yeah for sure, and some clappers on the back end.

939
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: I was part of that sculpture.

940
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: It made me feel things that never felt before.

941
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 3: You guys, let's let's really quickly. I know we're running

942
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 3: on time here. Let's get into the reasons that this

943
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 3: feels a little weird. We've got all these witnesses, but

944
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 3: we don't have freaking proof. Where's where's the proof of

945
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 3: this occurring? Where the photographs, where the radio reports, where's

946
00:58:55,880 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 3: the local newspaper writing about this? Why just talk about

947
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 3: what we've got in that realm?

948
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 1: Yeah?

949
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

950
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: This leads to like this is this what I was

951
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: talking kind of talking about before one on air two,

952
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: Like the the ruorshak nature of it, you know what

953
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: I mean the tea leaf reading here, because it introduces

954
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: us to a standing conspiracy theory. One of the most

955
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: intriguing concepts about this incident hinges on the idea that

956
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: government agents, for one reason or another, may have actively

957
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: conspired to cover up reports of this or cover up

958
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: hard evidence. And to your point, Matt, there are key

959
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: pieces of hard evidence that we would reasonably expect to

960
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: find that are missing. For instance, there is no record

961
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: of that radio broadcast from the evening of September first,

962
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. Why well, could it be because they

963
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: didn't take it seriously, didn't decide to record it for posterity.

964
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: Could it because it was just their sop standard operating

965
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: procedure to not keep audio copies of every single program

966
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: they did every single night back in nineteen sixty nine.

967
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: Probably yes, And also yes, well, I mean.

968
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, you know, it's not like they

969
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: had digital recording, where recording space is unlimited and you

970
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: can just record things constantly. Would have had to been

971
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: recorded on tape, like on reel to reel, and those

972
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 2: take up space. There's no reasonable expectation that a radio

973
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 2: station in the sixties like that would have recorded everything,

974
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: unless it was a special broadcast, you know, some kind

975
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: of like Christmas thing or who knows, or like something

976
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: noteworthy enough for the DJ or their anchor to like

977
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: flip on a tape. Though I would argue that this

978
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 2: does fall into that category, even it's only in the

979
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 2: oddities kind of camp. I would certainly be like, oh,

980
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: let's roll the tape on this. We can use this

981
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: for some crazy bloopers.

982
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: You know, one day this comes up in the Halloween

983
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: clip show.

984
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 3: Right, obviously it does always record, always record. And let's

985
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 3: jump over to the newspapers, because there was a local

986
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 3: historian from Berkshire County, Gary Leville, Leville. He was coming

987
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 3: through archives at the local newspapers for at least a

988
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 3: month and he was unable to find anything in that

989
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 3: time period around September one, both before and after that

990
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 3: mentioned any sidings from any locals. And again, is that

991
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 3: because the paper didn't think it was credible. It appears

992
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 3: that that at least was true in a couple cases

993
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 3: where the paper didn't want to commit it to writing

994
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 3: because they didn't want the town to be this weird

995
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 3: place where UFOs happen or where delusional people think they

996
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 3: see UFOs, depending how you feel about it.

997
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in both of those cases that's an editorial choice, right,

998
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: it's completely legal for them to do that. However, there's

999
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: a third case when we get to the matter of

1000
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Those organizations are required to document stuff legally.

1001
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: So there's a guy named Santi Gulatta. He was the

1002
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 1: Sheffield Chief of Police in nineteen sixty nine when this occurred,

1003
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: and according to his son Eddie in later interviews, Galotta

1004
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: did actually receive phone calls about some sort of mysterious

1005
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: object in the sky, but he didn't believe the reports,

1006
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: because you know, if you're running, if you're running an

1007
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: open phone line, you probably get a lot of crazy calls.

1008
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: One eight three three stdwytk let us know.

1009
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 3: But we do have that account of there not being

1010
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 3: anything on the books whatsoever right on that day, besides

1011
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 3: the missing woman that I still contend may have something

1012
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 3: to do with this.

1013
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: One. There's one big elephant in the zoom call, though,

1014
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: and it's this there's a socio political kind of context

1015
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: that in which this occurs, and it's not isolated from it.

1016
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: We're in the middle of a Cold war, right Also,

1017
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: this is just months after the first official moon landing. Right,

1018
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: space is very much on everybody's mind, and it's certain

1019
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: that the alphabet soup is gonna keep tabs on any

1020
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: unusual activity the world militaries, forget just the US military.

1021
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: If you hear about a strange object in the sky,

1022
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: your first thought is gonna maybe not be aliens, but

1023
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like, is this just weather balloon or

1024
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: did the other guys, the bad guys, build something that

1025
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: we don't have. So I like, we know that we're

1026
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: extensive investigations.

1027
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely. Here here's the other part of that.

1028
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 3: Let's say you're an advanced civilization keeping light tabs on.

1029
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 3: You know, a group of semi intelligent animals that can

1030
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 3: drive cars and fly airplane and they can shoot things

1031
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 3: up into the atmosphere a bit, but they can't really

1032
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 3: do much else besides that. And all of a sudden

1033
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 3: you notice that a ship has made its way all

1034
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 3: the way to the lunar surface of the moon of

1035
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 3: that planet. Maybe you'd start doing a little more closer

1036
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 3: research right after closer monitoring.

1037
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: Just so yeah, yeah, yeah, let's look at this. Let's

1038
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: see what they're up to, right, I get it.

1039
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 3: So you go, so you go to Great Barrington, Massachusetts.

1040
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: Right right, because you had earlier abducted someone from that region,

1041
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: and now you want to see what they're how your

1042
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: genetic experiments have affected their offspring, et cetera. You can

1043
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: mad lib anything into that.

1044
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the most compelling kind of more out

1045
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 2: there way of looking at this. I love the multi

1046
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 2: generational idea of like the parents being you know, targeted

1047
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 2: in some way and they're like lineage or whatever. I

1048
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: think that's pretty cool. I don't know if it's a thing,

1049
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,919
Speaker 2: but it's certainly an interesting thing to think about.

1050
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: Well, then the other question is, of course, the bet

1051
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 1: I want to put this very diplomatically. This is not

1052
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: my personal belief, but it is an understandable belief on

1053
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: the part of some skeptics to say there's something inherently

1054
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: narcissistic about the idea that out of billions of people

1055
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: on the planet who are all, you know, physiologically, we're

1056
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: all pretty much the iterations on a theme or variations

1057
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: on a theme. There's something kind of narcissistic about saying, well,

1058
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 1: they singled me out multiple times, and I therefore am

1059
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: special for that reason. And it's like a you know,

1060
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: like paranoia is ultimately a narcissistic flavor of thought or ideation.

1061
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that, but I see where people

1062
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: are coming from with that. In my opinion, I don't

1063
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: think there there's anyone who's like purposely lying to folks

1064
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: for attention, And I think you know to say that

1065
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: is the case without solid proof become comes very close

1066
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: to victim blaming, which which would be irresponsible of us.

1067
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: At this point, Matt, you had a quote from Jane

1068
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: Green that you quite liked in the Unsolved Mysteries episode.

1069
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, I do, and you'll have to forgive us

1070
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries. We very much enjoyed your episode. And I'm

1071
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 3: pulling another direct quote from your program. Yeah, I and

1072
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 3: I'm doing it because Jane Green just is highly convincing

1073
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 3: to me personally in her reasoning behind telling this story,

1074
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 3: behind wanting you to hear her story. So I'm just

1075
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 3: going to read it. I just wish that everyone that

1076
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 3: sees this talking about the Unssal Mysteries episode really would

1077
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 3: open their minds because I know the people that are

1078
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 3: being interviewed are people just like everyone out there that

1079
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 3: probably at one time didn't believe, doubted and when this happens,

1080
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 3: there is no doubt. I have no reason to make

1081
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 3: anything up. I'm eighty five years old, and this is

1082
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 3: not something that I expected to do or ever to

1083
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 3: talk about. It's real. It's for real. People have got

1084
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 3: to understand that.

1085
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: And this shares a common thread with Tom Reid's earlier

1086
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: statement before the record, I want to point out that

1087
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: while it's true he and others have made multiple appearances

1088
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: on various I would call them paranormal popcorn shows just

1089
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: because I like the alliteration. Not trying to start trying

1090
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: to get any beef points. But just because they've made

1091
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: appearances on these shows doesn't mean that they're somehow con artists.

1092
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,919
Speaker 1: You have to listen to people clearly and objectively. It's

1093
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: safe to say that these events, their participation in these

1094
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: shows or other media outlets, haven't made them wealthy. They're

1095
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: not milking this as some sort of extraterrestrial cash cow.

1096
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 1: They in fact, they simply told their story once and

1097
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: have stuck with it throughout multiple decades. It is safe

1098
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 1: to say, at the very least that they believe this

1099
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 1: story is true. So what about you, conspiracy realist, what

1100
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: are your thoughts? We would love to hear them. You

1101
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: can feel free to abduct us in your UFO and

1102
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: give us the first hand scoop if you were involved

1103
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 1: with this, and if not, if you don't happen to

1104
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: have a running UFO now, you can always find us

1105
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: on the internet.

1106
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 2: You sure can. We are on all the usual spots

1107
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,600
Speaker 2: the social media's conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show on Instagram.

1108
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 2: You can join our Facebook group which we dearly that

1109
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 2: is called Here's where it Gets Crazy on Facebook. He's

1110
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: name and name of any of the names involved in

1111
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 2: this show. Superproducer Paul Michig controlled decands, Doc Holliday, Noel,

1112
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 2: Matt ben Co. Excuse me, excuse me, cod. If you

1113
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:19,560
Speaker 2: don't put the code name call in Doc Holliday, you're out. No,

1114
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: I'm kidding, We're pretty forgiving. Make Ben laugh. Let us

1115
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 2: know that you're a human person who's aware of the show,

1116
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 2: and you are in for all the good memes and

1117
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 2: discussions and tom foolery that goes on in that group.

1118
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 3: And if you're not into social media, you should give

1119
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 3: us a call. Our number is one eight three three

1120
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 3: st d w y t K. Huge shout out to Jen, Jen,

1121
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: you know who you are. You gave us a call

1122
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 3: and you told us about this topic. Weirdly enough, we

1123
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:52,560
Speaker 3: are behind back to I think early October in our voicemails,

1124
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 3: and we're getting through it right now. But I watched

1125
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 3: this episode of Unsolved Mysteries, then checked out some some

1126
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 3: voicemails and heard you tell us about this episode. So

1127
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 3: just worlds came together. Thank you so much, Jen, I left.

1128
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 3: I would have left you a message, but I think

1129
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 3: your voicemailbox is full. So like Jen, give us a call,

1130
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 3: tell us what you think, and yeah, just let us

1131
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 3: know if we can use your name and likeness on

1132
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 3: the show. If you don't want to do that, there's

1133
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 3: always the best way to get in contact with us.

1134
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:26,799
Speaker 3: Send us a good old fashion email.

1135
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1136
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1137
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1138
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.