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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you know what dark matter is? Meet us?

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I wish I did. Are you sure it's

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Speaker 1: not something simple like what, you know, like a bunch

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Speaker 1: of rocks painted black. Maybe yeah, okay, it's not that,

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Speaker 1: or you know, just a huge ginormous black hole that

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Speaker 1: would be awesome, but it's not that either, or maybe

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Speaker 1: it could be. Uh, don't go there, space banana. I

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Speaker 1: knew you were going to go there. I have to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you know it's not a space banana? Daniel?

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Speaker 1: I am poor hammy cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics. Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I don't believe

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Speaker 1: in space bananas. Would you mean you don't believe in space?

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Speaker 1: You don't believe bananas can be in space? Or you

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Speaker 1: don't believe that space can have bananas. I don't believe

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Speaker 1: that particles randomly bouncing around in space will spontaneously form bananas.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of like the Relateman bananas hypothesis. Not even

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Speaker 1: in an infinite universe where anything that's probable happens. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, in an infinite universe, there actually must be

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Speaker 1: a space banana out there. So and I do think

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Speaker 1: the universe is probably infinite, So you know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: a convert now and now in space. But welcome to

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Speaker 1: my cult, and welcome to all of you to our podcast,

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, in which we talk about all the amazing

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Speaker 1: things that are out there and all the amazing things

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Speaker 1: that are in here, and how it all connects and

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Speaker 1: how it all fits together and explain it to you

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Speaker 1: in a way that you can understand and hopefully makes

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Speaker 1: you chuckle. Yeah. We talked about all of the things

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Speaker 1: that are out there that we know about and all

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Speaker 1: the things out there that we don't know about, and

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Speaker 1: not just space bananas. Maybe space bananas made out of

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Speaker 1: dark matter. That's right, because one of the most exciting

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Speaker 1: things about science is not just getting answers and figuring

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Speaker 1: stuff out, but asking questions. So our goal is to

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Speaker 1: take you to the forefront of those questions, to show

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Speaker 1: you what scientists are thinking about, what are the possibilities

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Speaker 1: for some of the answers to those biggest questions, and

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Speaker 1: explain them to you. Yeah, because I think for scientists

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Speaker 1: it's not just enough to know that something is out

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Speaker 1: there and to classify it and to kind of catalog it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it seems you guys really want to know

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Speaker 1: what things are made of, you know, you want to

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Speaker 1: keep drilling down until you get to what like mathematics.

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Speaker 1: Well that's my goal. I mean, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: just know that something is there. I want to know

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Speaker 1: is it made out of the same stuff as you

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Speaker 1: and I are. Can we explain all of the crazy, beautiful, amazing, hasty,

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Speaker 1: weird stuff in the universe in terms of the same

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Speaker 1: basic building blocks or do we need to add another

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Speaker 1: building block? So to me, it's it's really interesting just

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Speaker 1: to know, like what is it made out of? Right?

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Speaker 1: Like what what would a space banana be made out of?

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Speaker 1: Ben ainos or bars, bananatons, whatever they're made out of,

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Speaker 1: you will get to name them good and taste them, hopefully.

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Speaker 1: But the question is if we find space bananas, are

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Speaker 1: they made out of the same particles that normal bananas

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Speaker 1: are made out of? Or they made out of something

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Speaker 1: new and weird and different, which might mean that you

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Speaker 1: can't eat them. Oh, I see, they wouldn't taste the same,

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Speaker 1: not if they're made out of some new, weird kind

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Speaker 1: of particle right exotic space bananas, They might not even

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Speaker 1: be digestible by your system. They might pass right through you.

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Speaker 1: That would be weird, oh man. And but then begs

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Speaker 1: the question are they still bananas? And then we have

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Speaker 1: to go through the department of banana philosophy to answer

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Speaker 1: that question. But yeah, we often talk about what things

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Speaker 1: are made of. And one of the biggest questions is

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Speaker 1: not just for us and humans, but in all of

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Speaker 1: the human history, maybe is what is this twenty five

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Speaker 1: of the universe made out of that scientists have discovered.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We spent a lot of time understanding the

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Speaker 1: kind of matter that's around us, bananas and people and

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Speaker 1: toes and ferret and lava, and discovered that all of

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Speaker 1: it's made out of these tiny little particles, quirks and

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Speaker 1: electrons mostly. But then we found that a huge chunk

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Speaker 1: of the universe, twenty of all the energy budget of

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Speaker 1: the universe, is this other kind of matter, this dark matter.

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Speaker 1: And so, of course, as particle physicists, we want to

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Speaker 1: know what is it made out of? Is it made

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Speaker 1: out of particles? If so, is it one particle, is

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Speaker 1: it a familiar particle that we've seen before, or something

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Speaker 1: totally new and weird and different. And I'm used to

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Speaker 1: sort of hyperbolizing this problem. Is saying it's not just

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Speaker 1: the biggest question in physics, it's the biggest question in science.

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Speaker 1: But you just went even further. You're like, this is

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Speaker 1: the biggest question in human history regarding physics. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what. Oh you're qualifying it now, all right, it's

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Speaker 1: too late, man, it's too late. Were already number one question? Ever,

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Speaker 1: m uh, it doesn't. Isn't dark wood? Is dark energy bigger? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Number two question? Ever, is still pretty good? And um

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Speaker 1: so yeah, so it's it's pretty big. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's of the universe. And like we the regular matter

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Speaker 1: is only five percent, So this is not like a

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Speaker 1: small question. It's it's um it's like, what is most

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Speaker 1: of the stuff in the universe made out of? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of the little detail, right. We thought for

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Speaker 1: a long time that we had figured out mostly what

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Speaker 1: matter was made out of, and then we tried to generalize.

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Speaker 1: You said, well, it must be that the rest of

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Speaker 1: the universe is also made out of similar kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But if the rest of the universe is more then

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Speaker 1: we're sort of the rest of the universe, and that's

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Speaker 1: the normal stuff, and so it's really important that we

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Speaker 1: figure out what that dark matter is made out of.

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Speaker 1: Is it made out of our kind of particles or

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Speaker 1: is it made out of something else? Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: we have I think a couple of episodes about dark matter,

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Speaker 1: and maybe if you even go back to some of

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Speaker 1: our first podcast episodes, so it's you know, about when

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Speaker 1: we were younger, before the virus, where we talked about

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Speaker 1: what dark matter is, what scientists think it is, what scientists,

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Speaker 1: how scientists know that it's there. And so if you're

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Speaker 1: curious and or catching up about what dark matter, please

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Speaker 1: go through our archive and check those episodes out. But

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Speaker 1: the big question about dark matter is what is it

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Speaker 1: made out of? So we it's this weird matter out

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Speaker 1: there in the universe, right Daniel, that is pulling on

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Speaker 1: stars and keeping galaxies together, But nobody knows what it's

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Speaker 1: made out of because it's not made out of stuff

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Speaker 1: that you can see or touch. Yeah, And for a

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Speaker 1: long time, we thought that dark matter couldn't be made

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Speaker 1: out of corks, and it couldn't be made out of

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Speaker 1: the kinds of stuff that's around us, that it had

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Speaker 1: to be some new, weird, exotic kind of particle. And

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Speaker 1: so we've had lots of ideas for what kind of

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Speaker 1: particle dark matter could be mad at of, and maybe

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Speaker 1: you've heard of them. There's the weakly interacting massive particle

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Speaker 1: the WIMP. Then there's theme macho massive astronomical compact halo objects,

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Speaker 1: and then there's other weird stuff like axions. But the

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Speaker 1: sort of the scientific mainstream is to think that dark

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Speaker 1: matter is probably may have something new and weird, and

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Speaker 1: that's fascinating. That's an amazing opportunity because if you discover

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Speaker 1: this new kind of particle that gives you like a

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Speaker 1: whole new Lego block, a whole you know, it opens

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Speaker 1: up this whole new place to play, this new area

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Speaker 1: of physics that we can explore. Yeah, it's like that

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Speaker 1: time you figure out you can combine Lincoln logs and

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Speaker 1: legos and it's like, WHOA, what can I build now?

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Speaker 1: Or it turns out most of the world is not

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Speaker 1: built out of Lincoln logs or legos, right, and you

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Speaker 1: learned how to use actual concrete to make buildings. This

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Speaker 1: just this just took an engineeringly turn. But so that

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Speaker 1: that was the sort of the thinking about dark matter.

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Speaker 1: But recently in the news, there's a lot of attention

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Speaker 1: being paid to a new paper that just came out.

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Speaker 1: Then maybe answers this question whether or not dark matter

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Speaker 1: is may it out of courts? Yeah, it's really sort

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Speaker 1: of a fun question to just ask. Hold on a second,

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Speaker 1: maybe dark matters actually just made out of something simple,

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Speaker 1: something familiar, in a new arrangement. Maybe it's found way

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Speaker 1: to hide from us, and so it's worth examining, like

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Speaker 1: why don't we think dark matter is made out of

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Speaker 1: quarks and and could those assumptions be wrong? Okay, so

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Speaker 1: there's a new paper, right you were telling me that

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Speaker 1: has a new idea for how you can maybe use

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Speaker 1: corks old regular quirks, uh and use them in a

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Speaker 1: new way to make dark matter. Now, is this a

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Speaker 1: theoretical paper or is this an experimental they saw something. Well,

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Speaker 1: the paper is theoretical, but it touches on experimental work.

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Speaker 1: Is from the University of York, and it's by a

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Speaker 1: couple of guys who came up with a new way

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Speaker 1: to five quirks together um that could explain dark matter.

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Speaker 1: And so it's a theoretical paper, but it references experimental

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Speaker 1: work like it talks about this thing called a hexa cork,

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Speaker 1: which combines six corks into a weird particle, and it

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Speaker 1: about how maybe if you put those quirks together, it

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Speaker 1: could look like dark matter and it could like evade

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Speaker 1: all the arguments against why quarks can't be dark matter.

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Speaker 1: And so it's sort of like theoretical, like can we

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Speaker 1: make this work? And then they rounded up I think

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Speaker 1: in a cool way by suggesting some ways to check

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Speaker 1: their idea. Well, interesting, it's a pretty cool idea. And

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Speaker 1: so today on the program, we'll be asking the question

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Speaker 1: could dark matter be made out of hext of cords?

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Speaker 1: And several listeners had a question about this paper, so

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Speaker 1: they sent it to us. Jeff Sagar and Geal Turner

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Speaker 1: will send us this paper and staid, could this be right?

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Speaker 1: Could dark matter just be made out of quirks? So

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Speaker 1: we thought it would be fun to talk about. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I like how people sometimes treaty like the

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Speaker 1: you know how you have a medical doctor relative. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're like, I got this itch here in the back

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Speaker 1: of my neck. Can you check it out and tell

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Speaker 1: me if this is something I should be concerned about.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're sort of like in and it's

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Speaker 1: now physicist uncle, I'm happy to be your on call physicists.

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Speaker 1: Or because your dark matter has a rash, then please

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Speaker 1: don't take it to the e er. You just needed

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Speaker 1: to rest at home, that's right. Do not apply dark

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Speaker 1: energy to it or antimatter might be might have a

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Speaker 1: secondary consequences, that's right. But if you do have a

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Speaker 1: question about something you see online that you think is

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Speaker 1: probably bunked or you don't understand it, send it to us.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to dive into it, maybe give you a

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Speaker 1: short answer over email, or devote an entire episode to

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Speaker 1: it like this one. Yeah, and so as usual, we

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Speaker 1: were curious to see how many people had heard of

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Speaker 1: these HEXA works and how far has the news about

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Speaker 1: them spread into the public. So, as usual, Daniel went

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Speaker 1: out there and ask people this question, have you heard

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Speaker 1: of hexachords? Now? Daniel, because of the situation we're in

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Speaker 1: with the virus coronavirus, how did you did you approach

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Speaker 1: people this time? Or did you did you a person

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Speaker 1: from twenty feet away? How did you record these answers? Um,

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Speaker 1: I have a massive bubble that has six foot diameter

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Speaker 1: and I just walk around inside that bubble and people

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Speaker 1: you normally have that just avoid people open. Now it

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Speaker 1: comes in handy. It's usually a natural effect of my

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Speaker 1: odor and my hairstyle. I see, it's a virtual bubble,

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Speaker 1: I see, which is naturally stay away for it's an

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Speaker 1: effective bubble. Now, these recordings were done last week in advance,

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Speaker 1: and so this was pre pandemic, when people were still

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Speaker 1: walking around in the world and talking to strangers. And

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Speaker 1: I was letting strangers breathe on my phone, which is

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Speaker 1: maybe not a great idea. And I have since disinfected it.

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Speaker 1: But in the future we may have to go to

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Speaker 1: internet person on the street questions. So if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in participating in future person on the street interview questions,

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Speaker 1: send me a line and I'll send you our questions.

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Speaker 1: Because everyone always dreams about being a person on the internet,

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Speaker 1: well it's sort of inverting it, right. Instead of people

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Speaker 1: on the Internet asking me physics questions, I'm asking random

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Speaker 1: people on the internet physics questions. So it's only fair.

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Speaker 1: I see. So you would ask maybe online hey have

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Speaker 1: your to hex, of course, and you just get a

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Speaker 1: bunch of recordings of people saying nope. Never. We've done

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Speaker 1: this a couple of times though, with remote listeners who

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Speaker 1: wanted to participate, and I would send them the questions

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Speaker 1: in advance and tell them to record their answers with

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Speaker 1: no googling. All right, well here here's what people have

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Speaker 1: to say. So before you listen to these answers, just

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Speaker 1: think about it. Have you heard of hexachords or have

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Speaker 1: an inkling as to what they might be? Here's what

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Speaker 1: people had to say. No, or do you guess they

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Speaker 1: might be some kind of start? Nope? No, I have

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Speaker 1: not heard her come up, but I don't know anything

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Speaker 1: about it. No. No, al right, not a lot of

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Speaker 1: positive recognition they're out there about hex of cords almost

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Speaker 1: exactly zero. No. My favorite answer was hexa what hexa? Hood?

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Speaker 1: Is it like a witchcraft thing? Like? Do you hex people? Well,

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Speaker 1: what do you think? Do you think that's poorly named?

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Speaker 1: Or you think it just hasn't penetrated. I'll look out there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if I asked you about hexacord, wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: have thought, Oh, it's a particle with six corks in it.

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Speaker 1: It seems very natural to me. Well, I guess, um,

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Speaker 1: it depends on what it is, and I currently I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't have a good sense of what it is.

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Speaker 1: But if I had to bet whether it's physicists name

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Speaker 1: something not in the best way possible, that's where my

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Speaker 1: money would be. So you're like, hexa corks, it's probably

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Speaker 1: a new kind of fruit. Yeah, I think hexachords. It's

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Speaker 1: like it sounded like a good idea, but actually it

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Speaker 1: doesn't help you. All right, Well, we'll explain what hexa

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Speaker 1: corks are and how they might possibly but probably not,

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Speaker 1: could explain what dark matter is. But first let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break. All right. Then we're talking about hexachords

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Speaker 1: and it's a new idea that maybe physicist think that

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Speaker 1: it could tell us what dark matter is made out of.

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Speaker 1: So I guess maybe step us through here. First, we

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Speaker 1: know sort of what dark matter is, and the question

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Speaker 1: was before you thought that dark matter couldn't be made

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Speaker 1: out of quarks, So maybe tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about why we thought it couldn't be made out of corks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is an unusual idea to explain dark matter using quarks,

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Speaker 1: because we thought that we had to rule that out.

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Speaker 1: Most of mainstream science that dark matter has to be

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Speaker 1: some new, weird kind of particle. So if we're gonna

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Speaker 1: understand this new idea for how hex of quarks could

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Speaker 1: be dark matter. It's really worth re visiting an understanding,

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Speaker 1: like why did we rule out of quarks and how

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Speaker 1: does this new idea maybe sort of evade those arguments.

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Speaker 1: So number one thing is that corks have electric charge,

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Speaker 1: and quarks interact with light. You know, if you shoot photons,

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Speaker 1: it's something man out of quarks, it will react. You

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Speaker 1: shoot light at protons, you shoot lights at atoms, it reacts,

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Speaker 1: It shines, it absorbs, in admits. All the stuff out

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Speaker 1: there in the universe does interact with photons. And so

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Speaker 1: that's why that's kind of why we thought maybe dark

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Speaker 1: matter couldn't be made out of quarks because regular quarks

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Speaker 1: you can see, but dark matter you can't see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's dark, right, it doesn't give off light, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: reflect light, it doesn't interact in any way with light. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's invisible. It's invisible. Yeah, invisible matter would have been

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Speaker 1: such a better name. Dark matter. It can sound like

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Speaker 1: it's black, right, it's not. And and you might think,

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Speaker 1: all there's ways to evade that, you know, what about

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Speaker 1: neutral objects, And it's true that, like you know, photons

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Speaker 1: don't interact with neutral objects, and we thought maybe dark

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Speaker 1: matter was made of neutrinos or something else like that,

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Speaker 1: or maybe neutral atoms. I guess maybe initially when you

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Speaker 1: guys found dark matter, it's not that you knew it

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Speaker 1: was invisible, and you just knew. You said it didn't

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Speaker 1: emit light and you couldn't see it, right, So at

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Speaker 1: that point when you found it and you named it,

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Speaker 1: it could have just been dark or like painted black,

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Speaker 1: right well, but then it would have obscured. If it

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Speaker 1: was just black and and absorbed light but didn't admit it,

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Speaker 1: then it would have obscured stuff, like there's so much

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Speaker 1: of it out there. If you could see the dark matter,

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Speaker 1: then the night sky would be a lot darker because

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Speaker 1: we'd be shrouded in it, like our galaxy is in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a huge dark matter halo. If it

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Speaker 1: wasn't invisible, most of the universe would be invisible to us.

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Speaker 1: We would just see darkness in the sky, right well,

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Speaker 1: it could be like really small dense pellets of something,

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Speaker 1: right and you we wouldn't see it, but it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be invisible. But we can see the effects of like

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Speaker 1: gas and dust in the universe, like most of the

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Speaker 1: stuff in the universe is gas and dust, and we

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Speaker 1: can definitely see that it absorbs light. It blocks our view.

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Speaker 1: The center of the galaxy, for example, is mostly obscured

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Speaker 1: because of all the gas and dust. So even tiny pellets,

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Speaker 1: if you've got zillions and zillions of them, they obscured

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Speaker 1: a view. It's like a fog. Okay. So, so we

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Speaker 1: didn't think it could be quarks because it's dark and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't interact with the light, and we know quarks

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Speaker 1: interact with light, and so is that the main reason

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Speaker 1: didn't think that dark matter or we don't think dark

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Speaker 1: matter could be made out of quirks. It's not because

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Speaker 1: it's not that convincing an argument. There are ways to

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Speaker 1: evade it, right, There is normal matter that's invisible to photons,

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Speaker 1: like neutrinos and space space bananas are invisible to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ok right, as long as we're making up the things,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I just entered the second level of

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Speaker 1: this cult. Now I've been informed, and you read into

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Speaker 1: the invisible he made he made it to a level three.

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Speaker 1: So I'm saying things um and then you know, people

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Speaker 1: wondered like, could you possibly have neutral atoms that don't

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Speaker 1: interact with photons, etcetera, etcetera. So it turns out we

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Speaker 1: have a much stronger argument for why dark matter can't

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Speaker 1: be made out of quarks, and actually comes from calculations

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Speaker 1: about the Big Bang. M So we we studied the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang and we sort of see the remnants of

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Speaker 1: the debris from the Big Bang, and that actually tells

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Speaker 1: you that dark matter can't be made out of quarks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what it does. That tells you how much stuff in

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Speaker 1: the universe is made out of quarks, Because it turns

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Speaker 1: out that the density of quarks in the very early

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Speaker 1: moments of the universe controls how cork matter is formed.

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Speaker 1: Quark matter being like hydrogen and helium and light elements

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Speaker 1: me and you and all that stuff. The density of

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Speaker 1: the quarks determines how much heavy elements you get. So

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Speaker 1: if you have a huge density of quarks in the

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Speaker 1: early universe, you get more heavy elements like lithium and

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Speaker 1: carbon and oxygen. If you have fewer quirks, of the

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Speaker 1: quirks aren't as dense than they don't combine to form

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Speaker 1: as many heavy elements. And so we we measure how

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Speaker 1: much hydrogen is there, how much helium is there, and

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Speaker 1: we can tell from that sort of the density of

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Speaker 1: quarks in the early universe, and that tells us just

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Speaker 1: like how many quarks were there. But it's and I

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Speaker 1: guess it's not just about quantities, because I mean you

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Speaker 1: could imagine that maybe there there were a ton more

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Speaker 1: corks than we think there were, and some of them

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Speaker 1: just went on to make dark matter instead of hydrogen

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Speaker 1: and helium. Well, that's sort of this idea, that sort

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Speaker 1: of the idea from this paper. Yeah, Okay, sorry, we

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Speaker 1: actual gating credit there and the noble price if it

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Speaker 1: turns out to be true. Okay, so I see. So

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Speaker 1: before we we didn't think that the Big Band made

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Speaker 1: enough corks two make dark matter because it didn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: But maybe there is a way for this to make sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's sort of a it's in a subtle argument.

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Speaker 1: It's a subtraction, right saying, here's how much matters out

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Speaker 1: there in the universe, and we know that by looking

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Speaker 1: at how galaxy swirl and we can just see the

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Speaker 1: gravitational effects of it. That's how much dark matter there is.

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Speaker 1: And we know how much cork matter there is based

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Speaker 1: on this Big Bang nucleosynthesis argument how much helium and

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Speaker 1: lithium was made and so, and they don't add up,

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Speaker 1: so that leaves a gap. So we can't explain all

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Speaker 1: the matter in the universe using corks. But again, that's

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Speaker 1: assuming that corks turned into the kind of familiar matter

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Speaker 1: where we're we're familiar with, you know, hydrogen and atoms

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Speaker 1: and protons and neutrons and stuff like like. It couldn't

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Speaker 1: be that it turned into hydrogen helium and then some

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Speaker 1: of that stuff turned into dark matter. That wouldn't That

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Speaker 1: wouldn't work. No, that doesn't work. But if you could

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Speaker 1: somehow siphon off a bunch of quarks into a new

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Speaker 1: invisible kind of matter that then wouldn't interact with those

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Speaker 1: hydrogen helium and stuff, then maybe that dark matter could

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Speaker 1: be explained by those quirks and not mess up this

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Speaker 1: early universe Big Bang nucleus and thisis stuff. But we're

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Speaker 1: getting ahead of ourselves. No, I think we're here. I

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Speaker 1: think we're here, right, I mean, that's that's what this

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Speaker 1: idea of a hexa cork is, is that maybe it's

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Speaker 1: something that that happened to all those corks at the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang. Yeah, and there's a few steps you need there,

390
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Speaker 1: You need to understand what hexa work is, and then

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Speaker 1: the hexa corks have to sort of siphon themselves off

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Speaker 1: into some state that wouldn't want to interact with the

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Speaker 1: hydrogen and the helium that was happening around then, because

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Speaker 1: remember it was a hot and nasty place the early universe.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you made something and it just got

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Speaker 1: to hang out for fourteen billion years. It was. It

397
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Speaker 1: was really dense and there are photons everywhere, and so

398
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Speaker 1: you need to somehow create this stuff and then also

399
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Speaker 1: protected from the rest of the universe. I see, take it,

400
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Speaker 1: like take it out of the craziness. Yeah, so that

401
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Speaker 1: it can account for dark matter. Now, yeah, well, so

402
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Speaker 1: step us through them. What is hectic coork? And is

403
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Speaker 1: it a different kind of cork or is it like

404
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Speaker 1: a poorly named constant physic. I'm feeling a little bit

405
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Speaker 1: of judgment here, but I'm just gonna keep going because

406
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Speaker 1: now I'm like, curse cork, you know, like I see, Oh,

407
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Speaker 1: I get it. It's like a like a um like

408
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Speaker 1: a witch's cork. Yeah, yeah, yes, boiled, boiled, toil and

409
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Speaker 1: trouble through the eye of Newton. Hexa cork that sounds good. Um,

410
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Speaker 1: you know, a hexa cork is not a new kind

411
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Speaker 1: of cork, it's a new combination of existing corks. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I see. And so corks are very familiar particles. They

413
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Speaker 1: make up protons and neutrons and other exotic particles. And

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Speaker 1: so there are up quarks and down corks inside me

415
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Speaker 1: and you, non exotic mean particles. Right, they make up

416
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Speaker 1: non exotic particles, but also you know, weird particles like

417
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Speaker 1: pions and other kinds of masons they make up. You

418
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Speaker 1: can rearrange these legos to make all sorts of different

419
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Speaker 1: kinds of things. We had a whole episode about that

420
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Speaker 1: how that works. Quirks are amazing little legos, right, and

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Speaker 1: usually they're in pairs or in threes, right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And so there are a lot of rules for how

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Speaker 1: you put these legos together. You can't just say I'm

424
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Speaker 1: gonna put these seven quarks together, those nine quarks together,

425
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Speaker 1: because they feel the strong nuclear force, the most powerful

426
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: force in the universe, which is very particular about how

427
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: you put them together. And the strong nuclear forces a

428
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: different kind of way of arranging itself than any other

429
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: kind of force, like electromagnetism has plus and minus. So

430
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: if you want something that's neutral, you put a plus

431
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: in a minus together. Right. That that one's simple to

432
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: think about, because like two pluses can't go together because

433
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: they repel each other, and two negatives can't go together.

434
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: But the plus and minus they're be together, that's right,

435
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 1: and they form a neutral atom and or a neutral system.

436
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: In the case of the strong nuclear force. Though, there

437
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: are three kinds of charges, and so we can't call

438
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: them plus and minus because they don't sit nicely along

439
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: one axis. So we give them the names red, green,

440
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: and blue, because if you add them all up together,

441
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: then you get a neutral atom, what we call a

442
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: colorless atom. Right, Like if you take a red cork,

443
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: green cork, and a blue cork, they you get sort

444
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: of like a happy trio. Yeah, they're happy trio. So

445
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: they're balanced out together, and that's sort of similar to electromagnetism.

446
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: You take one of each of the kinds of charges,

447
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: a plus anamnus, you add it together, you get neutral. Right.

448
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: In this way, you get one of each of the

449
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: kinds of colors. You add them together, you get white

450
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: or colorless. So you can make triplets. You can also

451
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: make pairs like you take a red cork and pair

452
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: it with an anti red cork. That's what color is,

453
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: anti red, like orange or like a c cyan. If

454
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: only I knew a visual artist who was really well

455
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: versed inside, what are you're talking to? Uh? Comics for parties,

456
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: I only do black and white, Okay, I'll ask the

457
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: Sunday cartoonist that question. Um, I don't know what the

458
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: anti red is, but whatever it is, when you add

459
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: it to red, you get white. And so a red

460
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: and an anti red can sit happily together and be

461
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: something what do you call that, like a bi cork

462
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: or as called that's called a mazon, a mazon. All right, yeah,

463
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: so you can. So you can start with two corks

464
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: a cork and it's anti color cork. You can do

465
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: three corks if you have like R G B and

466
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: that's called a barryon. And examples are protons and neutrons, right,

467
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: very familiar, mm hmm. And then you can get more complicated.

468
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: And those are the most common particles in the universe,

469
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: mazons and baryons. That's what we're made out of, right,

470
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: We're like our protons and neutrons and your atoms are

471
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: made out of threesomes of corks. That's right, these cork triplets.

472
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: And but you can combine them in other ways, like

473
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: you can take four quarks. If you have a red

474
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: and a green and an anti red and an anti green, right,

475
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: that also is color neutral, Yeah, because the antis cancel

476
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: out the red and the green, and then they they

477
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: can all sit happening together. And can you already guess

478
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: what that's called? Uh, a quat cork A tetraquork a

479
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: tetra oh right, yeah, tetra tetras. Sorry, And you can

480
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: fit them together just like tetris pieces. So that's the

481
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: four cork version. And so that's that's stable because you know,

482
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: like a color and an anti cork, we're happy by

483
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: them as a two zone. But you're saying you can

484
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: get two couples and and they're also happy together they

485
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: form a colorless object. Not all of these things are stable, right,

486
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: Like the proton is stable. The proton will sit around.

487
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: Proton by itself will sit around for billions of years

488
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: and do nothing. A neutron is not stable, right, A

489
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: neutron will turn into a proton and an electron. And similarly,

490
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: the pairs the masons they're also not stable. So some

491
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: of these things are colorless, like they're neutral, but they're

492
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: not necessarily stable, all right, But that you're saying that

493
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: they can fit together, they just won't fit together for

494
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: very long. Yeah, And you can keep going, and you

495
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: can make a combination of five corks. So here you

496
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: would need like an R, A B, A G that's

497
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: color neutral, plus maybe like an R and an anti R,

498
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: so that gives you an overall particle that's a neutral

499
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: and that's called a pent cork, right, not a sunk cork.

500
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: And then finally we get to hexa corks. But wait

501
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: to tell me about these weird particles with lots of

502
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: quirks and it like do they do they act like

503
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: regular particles or you know what I mean? Like do

504
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: they just bounce around with the rest of us here

505
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: or do they suddenly change or do something different. They're

506
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: very short lived. We can make them only in special situations.

507
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: In particle colliders, you smashing of quarks together for a

508
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: very short amount of time. These particles can form, but

509
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: they last like ten the mine is twenty three seconds,

510
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: and then they fall apart and they turned into lighter,

511
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: more stable particles and I see. But while they're alive,

512
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: they're just like regular particles. They're just like regular particles.

513
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: But you know that's a whole other question, like, well,

514
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: what is a particle anyway? But they are the bound states, right,

515
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: They moved together, and if you touch them with anything

516
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: that has less energy than those bonds, then they react

517
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: all as one. And so yeah, they act as as

518
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: a particle, though it's very short lived, m all right.

519
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: So then and then, but then you can get six

520
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: quarts together. You can get six quarks together. And this

521
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: is just sort of like a die barrion. It's like

522
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: a red green and blue and then another red green

523
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: blue or an anti red, anti green, anti blue. But

524
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: isn't that the same as like a quark and an

525
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: anti like a like a proton and an anti proton. Yeah,

526
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: like or like a proton and a neutron. Yeah, it's similar,

527
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: but it's you know, they're compressed together. A proton and

528
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: a neutron has the same quirk content as a hexa cork,

529
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: but it's a different arrangement, you know, the same way

530
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: that I have the same core content as you, but

531
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm a different arrangement. It's all about the arrangement. It's

532
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: all about the bonds and how you fit them together.

533
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: Like I could make a really ugly thing out of

534
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: my legos and you could make something beautiful, and I

535
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: could say, well, they're made of the same legos, but

536
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't take away from the beauty of your creation, right, Yeah,

537
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: all right, So then, so you're saying these are six quarks,

538
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: not just in like you know, three pairs or two

539
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: three ors. There are actually like six of them or

540
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: they're all interacting with each other, they're all sort of

541
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: connected to each other. Yeah, And there's one in particular.

542
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: It's called the d Star and it has a certain mass.

543
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: It's just under two and a half times the mass

544
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: of the proton and it was found in two thousand

545
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: eleven and then confirmed in two thousand and thirteen again

546
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: in particle collisions, and it lasts for ten to the

547
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: twenty three seconds. And we think it's made out of

548
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: three up quarks and three down corks all put together.

549
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: So you've found this. This is something that you've seen

550
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: in the particle collider, like, hey, this came out. Yeah,

551
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: So hexic corks are real. They but we don't think

552
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: they last very long. We think you can make a

553
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: hex of cork, but then it's gone after ten of

554
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: the minors twenty three seconds. Wow, which is like, like

555
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, SA many electron years, But it's much smaller

556
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: than the amount of time we think dark matter has

557
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: been around. We think dark matter lasts for billions of years. Right,

558
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: So you start hexa works to explain dark matter, you

559
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: have to explain how, for some reason it's lasting for

560
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: billions of years. Oh, I see, all right, so this

561
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: is the candidate for what dark matter might be made

562
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: out of. It might be made out of these interesting

563
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: and funny hexacorks. And so let's get into whether or

564
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: not that's actually true and what this paper says about

565
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: dark matter and what it's made up. But first let's

566
00:29:51,840 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: take a quick break. All right, we're talking about the hexachorks,

567
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: and you're telling me that there are just six quarks

568
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: hell together. That's it, man, just six quirks hell together,

569
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: like anybody could have done this at any time. Uh. Yeah,

570
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: you seem kind of underwhelmed a little bit. I mean,

571
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: you're expecting which is quarks and like spell quirks and

572
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: magic works. I feel like you're using the word cork

573
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: for two things. You're using it for the particle that

574
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: are corks of fundamental particles that are quirks, and you're

575
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: using it also for arrangements of quarks. You know what

576
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Like you strange cork. That's confusing. Well, I

577
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: feel like it's strange quarks. It's like, Okay, that's a

578
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: different kind of cord. But this is not a different

579
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: kind of corks. This is just an arrangement of courts.

580
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: It's like seeing a bananas a banana, and a bundle

581
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: of bananas is a hex of banana. Actually, that sounds

582
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: like a great idea to me. What would you like today, sir,

583
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: I'll have a hex of banana. But I guess the

584
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: idea is said. It's it acts like a particle, just

585
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: like a like a bunch of bananas. Um, you can

586
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: throw a bunch of bananas together because they're held together,

587
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: but they're made out of individual bananas. Yes, they're made

588
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: out of individual bananas. And so in this case, we're

589
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: interested in this d star hexa cork not so much

590
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: because we're interested in like how can you put corks together?

591
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: At the whole field of quantum chromodynamics that people are

592
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: interested in um. But here we're interested in, like, maybe

593
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: could this possibly explain the dark matter m M and so,

594
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: because maybe when you put these six corks together and

595
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: they suddenly have special powers. Yeah, and so to get

596
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: the star hexa co works to look like dark matter,

597
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: you have to do a couple of things. First thing

598
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: is you have to make it last longer than ten

599
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: to the minus twenty three seconds, because we think dark

600
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: matter exists on sort of cosmological time scales, that it

601
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: was created in the early universe, and it's still around.

602
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: So like decaying into normal matter into and just evaporate,

603
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: doesn't just evaporate, It sticks around, right, It's otherwise there.

604
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: It's still around. Yeah, it's been here for fourteen billion years.

605
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: No reason to think it's going to disappear tomorrow, right,

606
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: So you you would have to find a way for

607
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: these hexachords to be stable to hang around. Yeah. And

608
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: the idea is that maybe these d star of corks

609
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: form some weird state of matter of Bose Einstein condensate

610
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: where they all sort of grouped together and act like

611
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: one big mega particle. Oh man, and let me get

612
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: how you call that one omega cork. Now, that's the

613
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: name of a transformer. I think you're thinking of omegatron

614
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: um and Bose Einstein condensate is a weird quantum mechanical

615
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: state of matter where you've got a lot of particles

616
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: together that are bosons, things like photons or or other

617
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: particles that can sit on top of each other, can

618
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: be in the same quantum state with some particles fer

619
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: meons that don't like to be in the same quantum state,

620
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: like electrons. If you put two electrons around and atom,

621
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: they don't want to be in the same energy level,

622
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: but bosons they're happy to sit in the same place.

623
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: You can have ten million photons all in the same

624
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: state with the same energy. But if you get enough

625
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: of these particles, enough of these bosons together, they have

626
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: like a macroscopic quantity like a droplet. Then it forms

627
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: the state called a Bose Einstein condensate, where it's macroscopically sized,

628
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: but it behaves like a quantum object like one like

629
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: they share the quantum uncertainty kind of in a way,

630
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: it's a quantum wave function with like visible size is

631
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: usually all the quantum effects are hidden away at the

632
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: tiny scales where you can't see them, and they're averaged

633
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: down to zero. But here's an object that actually you

634
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: can see quantum mechanical effects. And we should do a

635
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: whole podcast episode on Bose Einstein condensates. All right, So

636
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: we think that maybe this hex a chord lives in

637
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: a Bose Einstein contented state, and that's how it becomes

638
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: dark matter. Yeah, they did this calculation and they showed

639
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: that maybe if you could get enough and these together,

640
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: they could form of Bose Einstein condensate, in which case

641
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 1: maybe it would be stable. Like they wouldn't evaporate, they

642
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: would just they would like being in a Bose Einstein condensate,

643
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: and then they wouldn't they wouldn't disappear. And there's, you know,

644
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: a good history here for this kind of idea of

645
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: saying you have a particle which on itself is unstable,

646
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: like the neutron, but you put it in a special

647
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: situation like neutron stars, and it's stable. So like a

648
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 1: huge pile of neutrons altogether, they stick around. A neutron

649
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: star sticks around a single neutron will decay pretty quickly

650
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: into other stuff. So maybe the same thing happens with

651
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: these the star hex of corks. And they did some

652
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: calculations in the paper that showed it it was plausible.

653
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: It's not just like let's throw this banana against the

654
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: wall and see if it sticks. Mm. So what do

655
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: you think? It's a math? Right? Can you candy things

656
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: sitting in Bose einst Einstein condesant. Well, it's pretty complicated

657
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: stuff and it might be right. But you know, I

658
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: don't see a flaw in it in that part of

659
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: the calculation. Um. But you know, there are a lot

660
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: of ideas that could be possible but that aren't real.

661
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: You know, you have to not just say this might work.

662
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: You have to see that it actually does work. Because

663
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: we're interested in doing in this case is saying like,

664
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: is it actually the dark matter? Not just couldn't may believe?

665
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: Maybe be because the long list already of maybes for

666
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: dark matter. I see, so it can exist, Um, but

667
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: there's a question of does it happen in nature? And

668
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: the second question, which is is it that what dark

669
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: matter is made out of? Yeah, and there is one

670
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: question to have about this paper that makes me very

671
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 1: skeptical that these things could be produced and live long

672
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: enough to become dark matter. Physics drama. Physics drama, And

673
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: that's what you remember that in the early universe there

674
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: was a lot of radiation, Like most of the energy

675
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: the early universe were as photons and other things just

676
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: like energy radiating around. It was a crazy time. A

677
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: tiny fraction of the energy of the universe was matter

678
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: back then. And you know, and since then things have

679
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: cooled out a little bit and we have more matter, etcetera.

680
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: But back then it was really hard for anything to

681
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: stay together. You formed an atom five seconds after the

682
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: universe was born, immediately was blasted apart by a photon.

683
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: And so it's hard to imagine how these d star

684
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: corks all survived that crazy photonic time with all this

685
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: energy bouncing around. And in the paper, I don't see

686
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: them doing a calculation to show that these things, somehow

687
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: um will not interact with photons, because remember they're still

688
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: made of quarks. Right, a photon hits one of these

689
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: d star hexa corks, it should break it up, right. Well,

690
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: I guess that that brings me to my question, which is,

691
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: why do they think this might be dark matter? Like

692
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: when you put six quarts together, does it become invisible

693
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: suddenly and not react to light the way we know

694
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: dark matter doesn't either well, that's a good question. I mean,

695
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: these things are electrically neutral, right, and so in that

696
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: way they could be, but a high enough energy photon

697
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: will penetrate them. I think the core idea is that

698
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: maybe this dark matter is made out of these quirks

699
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: right in this configuration that allowed them to evade the

700
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: sort of creation of light matter in the early universe.

701
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: Remember we talked about how in the early universe most

702
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: of the corks got together to make helium and hydrogen

703
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. And so we know

704
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: how many corks were used to make all that stuff,

705
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: and it can't explain the dark matter. So this is

706
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: the way to like siphon off some of those corks

707
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: into another kind of matter which could still exist in

708
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: the universe. And so it's we've always assumed that dark

709
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: matter couldn't be made of quirks for this reason, and

710
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: the other arguments against dark matter being corks are a

711
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: little looser. They're like, as you're saying, like what happens

712
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 1: if you shoot a photon at it? And so if

713
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: it's possible to have more corks in the early universe

714
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 1: and siphon them off into this special kind of matter,

715
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: then you know that gives you the license to add

716
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: more quirks into the universe, which could then explain the

717
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: dark matter. And it could be that that forms this

718
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: boson set and condensate, and then we don't really know,

719
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: Like it might be that that sensage to photons, like

720
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: you small sho into it hard enough with the photon

721
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: they can break it up, but that it's still transparent,

722
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: So it could be like hanging out there in great

723
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: ribbons and sheets and fogs made out of corks, but

724
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 1: mostly invisible. I feel like you're sort of a little

725
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: bit skeptical about this idea because you're saying that in

726
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: something like that wouldn't survive the big the craziness of

727
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: the Big Bang. Yeah, And they don't explain in the

728
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: paper how it would survive the very intense photonic atmosphere

729
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: just after the Big Bang, Like why does this thing

730
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: last so long? Like they explain how you could make

731
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: it stable, meaning if you left it by itself, it

732
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: would last long enough, and if you bombard it with photons,

733
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: it should break up in their in the universe, right,

734
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: But what what if it's invisible to photons, then wouldn't

735
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: it sort of sit outside of that crazy Big Bang explosion.

736
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: But it's not invisible to photons. I mean, most low

737
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: energy photons would pass through it because you pass If

738
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: you bombard it with very high energy photons and there

739
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: are corks inside of it, then the bonds between the

740
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: corks are no longer relevant. If you shoot a photon

741
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: is something that's made out of quarks, and the energy

742
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: the photon is greater than the energy of the bonds

743
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 1: between the corks, and the bonds to the corks don't matter.

744
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter anymore whether it's inside a proton or

745
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: neutron or some other kind of cork matter Bose Einstein

746
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: quantum wave unity doesn't matter either. It doesn't matter if

747
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: you have high enough energy photons. And back in the

748
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: Big Bang it was crazy high energy photons all the time.

749
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: I feel like you're almost saying, like the Big Bang

750
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: photons would poke a hole in this theory. Uh, they

751
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: would shine a light on the flaws of this. Yeah,

752
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: there you go, all right, Well that's but that's pretty interesting.

753
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: And so this is a paper that and an and

754
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: an idea that made a lot of the news because

755
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, maybe this is what dark matter is.

756
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: Made out of but you know, it sounds like it's

757
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: a weight and see kind of thing like there is not.

758
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't answer all the questions. It is something that

759
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: possibly exists out there, but it's a bit of a stretch. Yeah,

760
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: And as usual in science journalism, it was very it

761
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: was hyped this life, maybe this explains dark matter, but

762
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: really it's just like another idea. And it's great to

763
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: have a breadth of ideas. We need a lot of

764
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: ideas because we haven't found dark matter and we've been

765
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: looking for a while, and so we got to be

766
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: creative and think, oh, maybe it's this other thing we forgot,

767
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: or maybe it could still be this thing we ruled out.

768
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: That's very healthy and it's great that these guys are

769
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: thinking about these new ideas. But right now it's just

770
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: sort of like one more thing on the list of

771
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: what dark matter could be, and it's got some question

772
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: marks around it. Do you think it would be better

773
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: if journalists just ignored science and not treated things as

774
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: if there were more run of the mill. I think

775
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: they would be better if they didn't act like every

776
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: minor step forward was an incredible discovery that answered a

777
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: big open question, because then the day we actually do

778
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: answer those open questions, people will be like, whatever, you

779
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: found dark matter fifty times in the last time ten years,

780
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: what do I care? You know? So this should have

781
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: been covered as like businists have new idea for dark matter,

782
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: not like dark matter riddle have been solved? What have

783
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: you put in? Like really for real this time, guys

784
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: at the end of that news article, we'll save that

785
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: code for when we actually discover it. But the thing

786
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: one thing I really like and respect about this paper

787
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: is that they also came up with a new way

788
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: to look for this. They're like, Okay, if these things

789
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: are real, how would we prove it. We can't just

790
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: have this theoretical idea. They were wondering, like, how would

791
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: we prove it? And so they thought about, like, if

792
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: these the star Hexa corps were real, maybe there's some

793
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: of them here on Earth, and maybe occasionally they sort

794
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: of collapse and they create these big, crazy showers of

795
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: cosmic rays, but they look different because they're going sort

796
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: of up instead of down. Anyway, it's a fascinating idea,

797
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: and kudos to them for coming up for a new

798
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: theoretical idea that sort of breaks some of the existing

799
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: rules and for coming up with an experimental way to

800
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: look for their idea, right, because you're in experimentalism, and

801
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: so you reacted to that, you're like, hey, I like

802
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: that part. Yeah. Well, anytime you have a new theoretical idea,

803
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: you have to figure out how to test it. You.

804
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: Ideas are just ideas until they're proven to be reality.

805
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: That's what experiments are for. Mm hmm, alright, well, I

806
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: guess we'll see, Well they'll they'll do you think they'll

807
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: do these experiments and figure out if if it could

808
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: be dark matter or do you think this will sort

809
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: of sit on a shelf for a while until there's

810
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: more of a consensus or more of a appealing theoretical

811
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: argument here. I think that it will generate some more

812
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: work in the theoretical community to figure out how to

813
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: answer some of these other questions and to see like

814
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: can it really be dark matter? This is sort of

815
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: like the first bide of the apple. There's a lot

816
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: of details still left to figure out that we talked about.

817
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: But also it's not that hard to do these experiments.

818
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: It's just sort of like looking in the data of

819
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: existing experimental facilities to see if you can see evidence

820
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: for these things that we just haven't looked for before,

821
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: So that's kind of exciting. You can you don't have

822
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: to run any experiment, you can just look at the

823
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: data from old experiments. Yes, all right, Well my last

824
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: question is, Daniel, if you take six space bananas and

825
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: tie them together, does that make them a hexta space banana?

826
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: It makes him a heck of a tasty banana. Heck

827
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: of whether I'll give you points for naming that one?

828
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: All right, thank you? All right, Well, I hope that

829
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: answered the question that a lot of you sent in

830
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,959
Speaker 1: as to what a hex of cork is and whether

831
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: or not it can actually explain what dorc matter is.

832
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: I think, as usual with science and physics in the universe,

833
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: the question is let's wait and see. Thanks for sending

834
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: your questions and thanks for tuning in. See you next time.

835
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

836
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to

837
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

838
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or

839
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

840
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

841
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of I heart Radio. For

842
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,399
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843
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844
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:13,200
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