WEBVTT - What's the deal with BitTorrent? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.760 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.880 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot Com. Join Josh 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.280 and Chuck, the guys who bring you stuff you should know, 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.680 as they take a trip around the world to help 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.720 you get smarter in a topsy CHRV economy. Check out 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.439 the all new super Stuff Guide to the Economy from 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.280 how stuff Works dot Com, available now exclusively on iTunes. 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.920 Hello there, everybody, and welcome to tech Stuff. My name 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.400 is Chris Pollette. I'm an editor here at how stuff 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.480 works dot com and sitting next to me as usual 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:43.040 as senior writer Jonathan Strijour though, Hey, and uh so 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.560 today we're gonna be talking about bit torrent, yes, which 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.440 has been in the news recently at the time of 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.360 the recording of this podcast because of a tracker site 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.880 called the Pirate Bay, which underwent a trial and got 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.640 a guilty verdict. And uh we'll get into that a 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.039 little bit later. I guess really what we should do first, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.520 it's kind of just give you guys an explanation of 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.320 what bit torrent is and how it works. Um so, 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.440 really it's it's a file distribution method right, yep. As 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.399 a matter of fact, it's it's in some ways very 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.520 similar to a lot of other file sharing protocols that 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.640 have been used in the past, like nat Ella and 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.520 the old style napsture. But in other ways, Yeah, but 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.119 in other ways it's not right. So let's uh, let's 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.760 let's take baby steps here. Let's go with the way 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.800 downloading something off the internet usually works in the traditional sense. 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:41.880 So and the Internet, you know, think of you've got 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.000 your your servers, and you've got your clients. You're using 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.200 a computer that's a client, and you're trying to access 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.800 a file that lives on a server. And so you 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.400 send out a message from your clients saying I want 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.040 this file, and the server responds with oki doki, I'll 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.200 send it all over and starts shooting that file over 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.560 to you in little bity packets. And uh, depending on 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.880 how busy that server is, how busy the the the 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.760 lines are really between your house and that server, uh, 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.560 and several other factors, it may take a really long 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.200 time to download that file. Um. If you don't have 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.079 broadband internet access, it's gonna take a lot longer. If 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.639 you have DSL, that'll take you know, a shorter amount 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.680 of time, and cable generally even shorter um all depends 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.440 on again, your your individual service. At any rate, you're 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.160 downloading that from that one single source, and if anything 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.520 happens to that source while you're downloading, that's gonna put 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.840 a hold on the download. So that's your your traditional method. 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.800 You've got the one source, and you've got a lot 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.359 of different clients all uh contacting that source to get 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.440 hold of that information. That's right, sort of like uh, 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.959 a little while ago, earlier this year, when Microsoft made 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.720 it's a Windows seven beta available for down load, they said, well, 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.560 you have until this time to get your hands on 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.440 the download, and then everybody did and you couldn't get through, 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.080 and it was it was sort of like trying to 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.880 call for a contest line in a radio station busy 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.799 signals saying sorry, we don't have any more of those 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.160 right at the moment. Please wait. That's actually a really 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.840 really apt comparison, which amazes me just as much as 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.959 it amazes all of you. Hey, I'm just kidding. I'm 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.200 just kidding. I'm not feeling well, that's all. I'm just sniping, 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.079 is what I'm doing. Alright, So anyway. The but no, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.200 that is that is the case. If you could um uh, 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.840 if you had any sort of service where it was 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.600 one server or a bank of servers that all had 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.320 this information on it and that was it, then yeah, 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.760 you can get overloaded very quickly. But file sharing, the 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:53.040 way this model works is that you have files existing 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:58.000 on other computers and instead of grabbing the file from 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.040 one single server, you're grabbing bits of the file from 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.480 various other computers, uh and then putting it together on 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.200 your computer. Actually you're not doing this, a client is 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.360 doing this for you. Um and uh. And then ultimately 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.320 you get the file all in one piece and um, 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.320 because you're grabbing bits and pieces from different computers all 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.960 at the same time, you're actually downloading different parts of 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.679 the file uh simultaneously, and you can get that file 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:31.120 very very quickly ult speaking. Well, yeah, that's true, that's true. Um. 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.520 Of course, with all the file sharing going on right now, um, 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.200 with things like music and movies and TV programs, uh, 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.080 that would make it pretty easy to track you if 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.440 you went by the normal method. I mean, if somebody 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:44.920 like the r I A A or m P A 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.000 A were wanting to find the source of the downloads 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.200 and and uh come after you with a lawsuit. Um, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.080 that would make it very easy, which is why some 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.520 of the newer file sharing protocols have sort of helped 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.880 money the waters a little bit by spreading out the downloads. Yes, um, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.799 you know in a distributed network. Right, so let's say 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.360 you're looking at well, let's let's look at bit torrents specifically. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.760 Unlike other file sharing services, you're using a a an 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:20.760 application that is specifically designed to UM download torrents. You've 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.520 you tell it where to find these files, or you 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.520 might have a search engine connected to it, or you 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.560 may go to a torrent tracking site to kind of 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.279 get pointed in the right direction. You select the file 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.640 you want, and then the you know, you're a little 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.279 client does all the rest of the work. Um, you're 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.320 bypassing the whole web browser model. You're not you're not 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:46.560 downloading that way, and you're You've got two different kinds 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.240 of of sort of a computers I guess you could 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.800 call them, um, that are involved in this system. You've 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.080 got your seeds, which are computers that have the full 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.719 file from start to finish and are making it available 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.760 for download for anyone using this particular service, this a 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.720 bit torrent service. Uh. And then you have peers, which 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.920 are the computers that are attempting to download this file 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:15.520 and are somewhere along the spectrum of of completion. So 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.719 they may have just started, they may be almost finished, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.839 but if they don't have the full file, they're just 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:25.320 appear they're not a seed yet. Now, as you complete 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.640 your download, you can switch from being a peer to 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:30.640 a seat if you choose, you can. You can say, 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:32.880 you know what, I got my file. I'm glad I've 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.760 got it, but I'm gonna let other people try and 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:36.440 get this file for a while too, So I'm just 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.480 gonna let it stay active. And Uh. That way people 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.279 can go ahead and grab it and and you know, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.480 I'll help out people the way people helped me out. 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.200 And and the more people do that, the faster these 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.880 files can can distribute across a network, and it almost 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.680 spreads viral e And Uh, there's nothing illegal about this 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.159 method of file distribution. It's just a way of getting 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:04.160 information from one computer or really several computers to other computers. 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.520 There's nothing wrong about that. There are problems when people 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.840 use this to distribute material that's under copyright. Oh, we're 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.120 back to that. Well, eventually, we're gonna have to get 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:16.720 back to it. We don't have to go right to 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:18.680 it right at this moment. But but a lot of 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.360 people assume that bit torrent equals illegal, and that is 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.360 not the case. There are plenty of legitimate uses for 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.920 bit torrent that are completely legal. Has nothing to do 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.560 with the way bit torrent works. It has to do 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.560 with the way people use bit torrent. So if you're 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.160 using it to distribute, say I don't know, like an 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.559 operating system that you've designed that if you you want 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.200 to get out there in the world, that's perfectly fine, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.520 there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to use 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:51.920 it to distribute I don't know, spore that that's wrong. Yeah, 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.120 I don't think e A would be very thrilled with you, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:59.360 So you should not do that. And the thing is, um, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.679 you know, people have come down on people who create 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.600 file sharing protocols because they say, well, you are causing 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.640 software piracy or you know, other kinds of piracy, and uh, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.400 that's in this case, it's just a more efficient distribution method. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.400 I mean, it's you know, just because the file is 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:24.040 available somewhere doesn't mean that the torrent sites are necessarily uh, 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.360 they're they're providing access to it, but they're not providing 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.600 the files themselves, which is sort of a gray area 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:31.960 as some people feel. Yeah, we'll get into that with 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.480 the Pirate Bay in a minute, um, which I'll have 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.920 a few things to say. Really, I find it hard 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.480 to believe that you have a strong opinion. Yeah, it's 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.839 kind of difficult to imagine, right, Um, but we'll get 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.240 to that. So, so getting back to this distribution thing. Um. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:50.840 One of the reasons why this is such a good 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.000 idea when you're trying to distribute large files across the 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.440 network is that you may notice when you use the 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.079 Internet that there's a different You have a differ and 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:06.440 rate of data transfer speeds between uploading and downloading. Usually 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.960 your upload speed is a fraction of what your download 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.400 speed is, So you may be able to download things 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.160 lightning fast, but you know when you're trying to upload 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.120 something it takes a while longer. Well, if you're trying 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.480 to upload a really large vial, obviously that's going to 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.880 take even longer than that. If you have a lot 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.840 of different computers all providing uploads of this information at 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.400 the same time, it cuts down on that because I 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.400 mean otherwise, what you would have is if someone were 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.480 trying to download the file, they'd only be able to 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.400 go as fast as you could upload. Right. That's right, 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.400 that's you. They would be no matter how fast their 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.800 download speed was, they'd be limited by how fast you 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.520 could upload the information. That's right. That's that's called an 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.719 asymmetrical connection. And that's where the A and A D 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.880 s L comes from. Right, if you've ever been curious, um, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.319 And that's pretty much the standard model for most consumer 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:55.959 uh internet access right now. I mean, if you are 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.319 a large company, you'd have a T three or something 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.840 even faster probably um, and you know, your speeds would 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040 be more symmetrical. That's that's sort of a typical home 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.720 connection right there. Right. And and so when you know, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.840 since we're talking about lots of people just using regular 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.480 computers to distribute these files as opposed to you know, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.760 servers that you would find in like a data center 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.400 or something, uh, chances are you'd run into that asymmetric model. 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.560 And so with you, when you have more computers operating 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.840 using you know, making these files available, you get around 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.000 those low upload speeds because you're taking bits and pieces 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.680 from lots of different computers, so it kind of balances 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:37.839 out that that, you know that upload speed um without it, 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.360 transferring big files would take forever. So it is a 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.760 good idea. It's just that people have been using it 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.439 for nefarious purposes, which is of course cast a kind 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:51.560 of shadow over the entire format um, which is really 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:56.680 unfortunate because there's nothing like, you know, a few bad apples, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.480 or in the case of bit Torrent, I'm sure there's 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:03.359 lots and lots of them ruining something that's really innovative 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.440 and useful. You know, this definitely has a place on 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.960 the Internet, and unfortunately most people associate with something that's legal. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.080 So now you have to get over that hump in 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:15.760 order to be able to say this is really a 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:20.160 legitimate way of getting information from from these computers to 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.880 other computers. Well, I mean, if you think about it 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.080 in a completely different way, um, you know, something like 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.000 using net which has been around forever and ever and ever. Um, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.520 you know, it's a great way to have, uh, you know, 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:37.640 constructive conversations, to share different hobbies and things. They're they're 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.880 great for message boards, but then now they've become storehouses 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.520 for wares, you know, cracked computer software, and um, you 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.840 know as a result. I remember the day that I 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.560 heard that my Internet service provider was going to start 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.640 metering the amount of time you could spend on using 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.199 net and the amount of information you could share. And 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.120 I thought, why using net? I mean, people don't really 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.520 use using net anymore for for message boards. Well, as 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.400 it turns out they do, and they're using it for 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.360 all kinds of other things. So it's it's another technology 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.120 that's you know, really neat for you know, one thing, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.959 but can be misused for other purposes. And you know, 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.560 as soon as they do, you know, they find out 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.200 and start cracking down on it. And bit to warrent 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.680 is just probably the one of the latest and more 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.199 famous examples of those kinds of technology, you know, that 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.760 can be misused, and you know, people come down on 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.400 the in this case the bit torrent folks for enabling 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.800 other people to share files and and not just yeah, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.120 and and not just from a copyright standpoint either. Um. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.960 We've also seen I s p s come down on 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.720 people using bit torrent clients or to uh you know, 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:52.200 the the big famous cases Comcast throttling customers download speeds 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.680 when trying to use bit torrent um. You could argue, 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.760 I assume that some of the the like m P 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:02.160 A A and r I double A would price say, uh, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.439 this is not you know, thrawlings necessary, so we can 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.160 we can discourage piracy. But again, as we pointed out, 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.920 you can use bit torrent legally to distribute files. If 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:17.880 Comcast throttles, you know, the torrent files, uh wants to say, 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.000 like it could be a completely legitimate use for that. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.600 And then suddenly the whole purpose of this this model, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.040 which is to make the the process much more smooth 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:31.160 and fast, it's invalidated because you've just put the brakes 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.280 on the system. So um, yeah, there's there's a lot 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.160 of there are a lot of people who don't really 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.600 care for the distribution method. But it's not the users, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.599 it's everybody else. Well, okay, so take yourself out of 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.640 the consumer shoes and put yourself on the shoes at 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.560 the I s P. Let me, let me twirl my 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:57.319 mustache and uh and and tie someone to the railroad tracks. Okay, 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.320 I'm in the mindset right, So you're kind asked and 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.120 you're throttling bandwidth or or like, uh, you know those 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:04.960 two blog posts that I wrote not too long ago 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:09.440 about Time Warner thinking about capping bandwidth uh per month. 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.320 You know they their claim when they do things like 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.880 that is that they're trying to manage their network better. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.040 And um, you know, say you're using bit torrent for 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.960 something completely legit. You know, every file you upload or 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.600 download is completely on the level, there's nothing illegal about it. 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.680 But from your I s P s perspective, dude, you're 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.240 really using a lot of bandwidth. Um, that's the amount 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.680 of information you're sending, by the way, not to be 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.840 jargon e. So you know they have a depending on 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.840 how you look at it, legitimate and you know, legitimate 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.680 reason for wanting or you know, for being concerned about 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.520 the amount of traffic going over their network because um, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.080 for example, if you're a cable user, everybody in your 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.880 neighborhood who is also a cable user, you're using part 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.360 of their bandwidth. So if you are using way more 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.800 than everybody else, you're slowing their connection down. Um. So 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.160 if you're on that kind of a can action, your 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.320 I s P may actually have a vested interest in keeping, 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.080 you know, keeping you from using a whole lot of bandwidth, 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.320 whether it's by throttling it, or by setting a cap 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.240 and saying, hey, look, fella, you're using a whole lot 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.720 of information here, can you tone it down. If you don't, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.120 we're going to charge you for it. So, I mean they, 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.360 you know, I could see why they might say that. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.000 Of course, you might also say that they're being very greedy. 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.920 You know, they're they you know, it's their network. I 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.280 have no way of knowing how much traffic is going 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.720 over it for real or not. But um, that that's 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.600 their reason for that's their stated reason for wanting to 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.120 slow people down. Yeah. I know quite a few people 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.920 who would call shenanigans. You know, like I said, I 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.120 don't have I don't have a a window. You can 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.760 defend them all you like, Pallette, I mean, we know 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:50.200 that you're a corporate puppet. Of course. Um, no, seriously, 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.160 the no, you have a good point. Um, there could 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.880 very well be that there there are bandwidth issues, especially 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.240 when you get to the last mile problem. Yeah, um, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.360 you get into the like the neighborhood level of of 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.920 of bandwidth. Um, it could be that, like, you know, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.880 two people using bit torrent to download huge files could 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.960 really impact the experience of an entire neighborhood I mean, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.080 it's it is possible for that to happen. Well, we're 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:17.800 not in one of those countries where we pay five 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:22.120 dollars a month and get a hundred megabit per second DSL. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:26.640 Not yet. We're kind of hoping for the new CTO 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.200 and the c I O to kind of help change that. No, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.640 it's not gonna matter actually that. But yeah, some people 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.800 would also argue that this is really just a case 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.240 of saying, you know, a clear illustration that the I 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.680 s p s need to UM to solve the last 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:47.200 mile problem and to find a way to get those uh, 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.280 those faster connections to you know it, maybe running fiber 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.760 to the home UM instead of just to whatever, you know, 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.920 the trunk or whatever. UM, then maybe we would not 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.760 have to worry so much about this band with issue, 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.920 and then we could see if it really is a 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.840 bandwidth problem or if it's just a hey, how can 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.920 we monetize this issue? UM, I know which side I'm 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:16.480 betting on. I won't go into it. So I guess 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.120 this eventually brings us around to the tracker sites. UM. 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.120 These are the sites that that are like search engines 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.879 for torrents, and UM they discover torrents, and they track 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.359 them and they allow users to uh to tap into them, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.640 and but they don't host anything themselves. They're just it's 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.680 just kind of like a very specialized Google, but it's 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.120 meant for torrents. Right. So you have a whole bunch 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:42.760 of these out on the Internet. There's like is a 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.359 hunt and all tons and tons. But the one that 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.120 got into the news most recently was the Pirate Bay. Now, 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.320 the Pirate Bay by its very name suggests some nefarious 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:58.000 behavior that that is, uh, that is some maybe negative marketing. 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.560 I would definitely argue that the Pirate Bay founders brought 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.840 an awful lot of the the problems they faced on 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.960 themselves by their attitude, by the way they marketed themselves, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.639 by the very name of the site they created. Um, 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.679 you can't really get around the fact that, you know, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:24.000 they were they were promoting a certain kind of behavior. Uh. 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.920 They still didn't host anything that was under a copyright 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.880 on their own site, they just linked to it. Uh. However, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.760 there were charges brought against the four founders of the 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.879 Pirate Bay. Um. And by the way, the Pirate Base 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.680 uh servers are in Sweden, and so as the Swedish 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:45.600 courts that prosecuted the founders, and uh, the two main 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.119 charges that were brought against them were copyright infringement and 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.360 assisting copyright infringement. Now, after the opening statement of the 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:58.760 Pirate Base lawyer, the the prosecution dropped the copyright infringement 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.360 charge because it was clear that there was no way 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.879 to really get them on that they didn't host the material, um, 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.680 so they couldn't be directly responsible. However, the assisting copyright 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.359 infringement charge stuck. It went all the way to trial, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.800 went all the way through, and they got a guilty verdict. 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.719 The four founders were sentenced to a year in prison 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.480 and three point five nine million dollars US in damages 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.240 two companies like Warner Brothers, which you know obviously are 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.200 hurting for money. Um. That was just a snide comment. 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:36.000 So anyway, the here's the issue as I see it. Yes, 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:41.280 the Pirate Bay promoted uh this kind of behavior, um, 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.679 which maybe that that was all it took to really 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.239 push them over to the assisting copyright infringement section. Well, 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.120 they didn't tell you where to go. Yeah, but that's 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.680 the problem is that any search engine will tell you 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.960 where to go. So let's say you go to a 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:01.199 quote unquote legitimate torrent trackings. Let's say we go to 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:06.400 one that is not meant specifically to allow people to 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:11.360 to UH distribute copyright right material across the network. Um, 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.320 some people still do that, right, So you've got people 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.680 who are doing you who are using the system specifically 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.520 to get access to material they do not legally have 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.560 the right to own. Um. But that's not the purpose 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:30.040 of the site. Now, if the courts would still pronounce 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.520 those companies guilty, I have a major problem. And the 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.880 reason is because essentially you are saying that by linking 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.520 to material that's under copyright, you are assisting copyright infringement. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:48.280 But everybody links at some point or another to something 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.800 that could be infringing on a copyright and it's because 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.119 you have really no control over you know, once you 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.160 link to someone, you have no real control over what's 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.880 on that site. They could change it. They could change 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:00.879 it as soon as you linked. Would they could change it, 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.359 you know, a year down the road and it or 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.200 it could be that, you know, you see this great 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.199 article and like you know, we often linked to UH 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.840 to outside sources, to to other articles things like that. 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.600 If someone were to use an image, for example, and 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.520 they did not have the express permission or the legal 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.040 right to use that image. Would that mean that we 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.000 would be liable because we assisted in copyright infringement? After all, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.200 if we linked to that site, theoretically we were helping 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:32.399 drive traffic to that site, you know. And then you think, okay, 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.320 well that would mean that search engines like Google, Could 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.720 they be liable because if you type in any sort 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.840 of real search term, I guarantee use one of those 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.160 search results somewhere down the line is going to link 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.080 to something that's going to infringe on copyright in some 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.360 way or another. Would Google be liable because they're again 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.679 allowing traffic to get to this material. You can basically 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.879 prosecute just about everybody on the Internet. Yeah. And the 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.159 ultimate result of this, I mean, I don't think it 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.320 will ever go this far. This is kind of dragging 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.800 it to the ultimate conclusion is that everyone would be 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.119 afraid to link to everyone else, so everything would remain 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.960 internal and instead of a web you would have a 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.719 series of columns. Every website would be a column and 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:17.879 you could find pages within that column, but there was 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:19.600 no way for you to get from that website to 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.560 another website because that other website might have copyright material 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:28.360 on it, sure, and that that would be the slippery 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.240