1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Quodydas, but Joseph's gotten more. There are two places in 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: the US that I want to visit, and not just visit, 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: I want to stay. I want to stay for a 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: couple of weeks and just kind of soak things in, 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: and to this point in my life, I've never been 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: able to. The first one is Maine. I've always wanted 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: to go to Maine. I've always wanted to see it, 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: to see if it is in fact as beautiful as 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: I've imagined it to be. The rocky shoreline, you know, 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: the evergreen forests that are there, the isolation, which sometimes 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: is a good thing. The other place for me, though, 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: is Montana. When I hear Montana and what people say 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: about it, and the fact that the place actually has 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: the title Big Sky, I've always wanted to go there, 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 1: and I wanted to see it at night to see 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: if everything it's true, that the clarity that you have 17 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: when you look up into the sky and you can 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: see the beautiful stars. But you know, Montana still to 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: this day is a rugged in a dangerous place. Today, 20 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a case involving a fellow who, 21 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: at first glance, apparently met his end at the hand 22 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: of something that was rather savage up there. And I 23 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: don't mean the wildlife. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 24 00:01:54,080 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: is Bodybags, my buddy Dave Max here with me. Dave, 25 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, you know, you know that 26 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: Kim and I before we came to Jacksonville, Alabama, we 27 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: were up in Delanaga, Georgia, which is up in the 28 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Blue Ridge, up in the northern part. I taught it 29 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: at a university up there, and it was up there 30 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: for about a decade and we had we had a 31 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: little cabin that we lived in. It was purchased on 32 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: the side of a hill, and I guess I was 33 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: probably eight miles away from the campus. You get eight 34 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: miles away from anywhere in Delana Georgia, and you're out. 35 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: I mean you're out. It doesn't take that long. And 36 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: the cool thing about this place was that adjacent to 37 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: our property, our neighbor owned multiple rental cabins and it 38 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: was on a big circle. And so when Noah, my 39 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: son was little, Kim and I would take Noah and 40 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: we'd go for walks every day, and we go out 41 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: with our dogs. You know, we love dogs, and so 42 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: we have rescues, and we would go out with the 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: dogs and hang out. And there was one of these 44 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: cabins in particular that had a great port swing and 45 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: we just go sit on the porch swing and watch 46 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: the dogs run up and down the hill that's adjacent 47 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: to it, and you know, it's very rugged terrain. And 48 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: Noah was there and he had had a toy with 49 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: him and he was playing right off the front of 50 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: the porch and all of a sudden, have you ever 51 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: had your dog there with you and they spot something, 52 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: They spot something or hear something that you can't pick 53 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: up on it, but they do. Yeah, squirrel, and our 54 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: dogs did that. They alerted like immediately, and they just froze. 55 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: And these dogs never freeze. They're they're always very you know, kinectic. 56 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: And so looked over and out of the corner of 57 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: my eye, I thought I saw something move, and I 58 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: stepped down off the porch and there one of my 59 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: terriers was looking in the direction of the hill immediately 60 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: adjacent to the cabin and there was a full grown 61 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: Eastern black bear. It was a mama. And the reason 62 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: I know it was a mama is she had three 63 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: of the cutest little cubs right behind her, and they're 64 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: walking down the trail. Well, this is something I do 65 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: know about bears is that, first off, Mama Bear is 66 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: the most dangerous creature on the face of planet, particularly 67 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: when her cubs are around. And all I could think 68 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: of was that this thing is going to come after us. 69 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: And it is literally, i don't know, probably ten yards 70 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: away from us from the edge of the porch, and 71 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: they're going around the back of the cabin. And I 72 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: looked over at Kim and I remember saying, don't make 73 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: any quick movements, just sit right here. And of course 74 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: Kim says, what is it? What is it? And the 75 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: dogs are creeping toward this, and I'm like, get up 76 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: off the porch, grab Noah, and walk up the hill 77 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: and around, trying to take the greatest circumferences you possibly 78 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: can away from this. And she reared up, Dave. She 79 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: reared up. 80 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: On talking about Mary, not Kim, right, Yeah. 81 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: Ex fact, now, Kim has reared up on me a 82 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: couple of times, but this animal reared up. And I, 83 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 1: you know, I don't get scared very often by things. 84 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: I didn't have a weapon with me. I'm just sitting 85 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: there on the front porch mine and my own businesses. 86 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Thing reared up and her cubs walked right behind her, 87 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: except for one that stood there. Dave stared at us 88 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: and it reared up. Oh wow, And I'm thinking, oh 89 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: my lord, what are we going to do? What are 90 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: we going to do? Well? I started making loud noises, 91 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, flailing my arms about Kim is like going 92 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 1: up the hill with Noah. She's screaming at the dogs. 93 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: The dogs are following, but they're still looking back over 94 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: the shoulder, you know, kind of like a lot's wife, 95 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: I guess. But anyway, they're they're trying to trying to 96 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: get away. And all I could think about, I've had 97 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: this incredible terror that kind of grabbed hold of me 98 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: at that moment, Tom, because I wasn't asking for it. 99 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: I didn't go out and seek the bear. You know, 100 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: I'm not like one of these people. And I've seen 101 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: this happen, particularly if we go the Great Smoking Mountains 102 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: to the Smoking Mountain National Park. I've actually seen people 103 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: approaching bears with cameras to take photos. They don't realize 104 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: how fast they are. They think that they're these kind 105 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: of slow lumber they're not. They can outrun a full 106 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: grown man, and they are dangerous, very dangerous. Generally, black bears, 107 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: Eastern black bears are not They're a bit more passive, 108 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: but they're still dangerous animals. I don't think people appreciate that. 109 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: So I've got a long way around the barn to 110 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: tell this story. Because when you're face to face in 111 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: that space with this animal, this is a wild animal. 112 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: You're not at a zoo. This is their world. You're 113 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: just kind of living in it. When the story came 114 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: up and came across the wires that we're going to 115 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: be talking about today on body bags, I thought, wow, 116 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: this is something that you don't normally see. You know, 117 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: you think about you hear bear attack, and I've seen 118 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: images before. As a matter of fact, I talk about it. 119 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: I teach a class in forensic odentology at Jacksonville State 120 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: where I talked about bite marks and all these sorts 121 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: of things, and I actually show injuries that have been 122 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: generated by a variety of different animals, and the bear 123 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: is always the most ghastly. I mean, it is absolutely horrible, 124 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: absolutely horrible. It's very disordered, it's random, it's vicious. People 125 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: just get shredded by these animals. And so when I 126 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: heard about this case and that it was an alleged 127 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: bear attack, I knew that we were going to have 128 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: something to talk about. 129 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: Brother. Well, it starts with a nine one one call 130 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: from a friend who our victim is a thirty five 131 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: year old man named Dustin. How are we going to pronounce? 132 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: Isn't that last name? Joe? You'resome? It's it again, you'resome. You'resome? Okay, Dustin, y'resome? 133 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: And he is a man's man. I was looking up 134 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: this because of the story and what we're being told, 135 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: and you get a thirty five your old man. He's 136 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: a father, but he is. This guy is from Montana. 137 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tell you. When you're from Montana and 138 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: you're a dude and you're going camping, I kind of 139 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: picture all these guys like Paul Bunyan, you know, they 140 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: just I'm thinking, you already lived. Your neighborhood is probably 141 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: like the great outdoors. To me, I would be John 142 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 2: Candy on the floor. 143 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: I got to say this. He's not one of these 144 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 1: Hollywood California guys that have relocated to Montana. This guy 145 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: is like when you look him up, he's like the 146 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: definition of Montana. 147 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: You know, you see, and this man's man. He has plans. 148 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: He's going camping. And this is what I tell city 149 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: people all the time, if you really want to know 150 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: what it's like to go camping. One you mentioned bears, Joe. Yeah, 151 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: my daughter Hannah took Braylan, who is nine, to Gatlin, 152 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: Tennessee area for fall break. They just came back the 153 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: other day. And while they were there, they went to 154 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: an area called Cade's Cove, which is beautiful. If you've 155 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: never seen it, yeah, it's incredible. And while they were there, 156 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: they saw mama bear and her cubs on the wild 157 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: They were in their car, and yet I'm listening as 158 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: they're videoing this, and I'm like, in my head, roll 159 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: your windows up, roll your windows up. That's too close. 160 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 2: Roll your windows up. And it's something they will learn 161 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: as they get older. But I'm hearing my daughter talking 162 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: to this wild bear like it's a puppy, and I'm going, baby, 163 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: you gotta learn. This is not that they look sweet 164 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: and all that, but this is not your pet. This 165 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: is an animal. Granted they're probably used to seeing people 166 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: more than other bears in other parts of the country, 167 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: but still a wild bear is a big danger and 168 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: it was just funny. 169 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you see them. It reminds me of all 170 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: those years that I was in South Louisiana, and I've 171 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: actually been around people that for some reason they wanted 172 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: to go close to the edge of the water if 173 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: they saw an alligator in the water. And I've had 174 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: this happen a couple of times. It happened to me 175 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: actually on a golf course years ago, where when you 176 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: play golf in South Louisiana, all of the little retention 177 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: ponds that they have there the water. We don't have 178 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: many hills down south in South Louisiana, so the you know, 179 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: when you think about these obstacles that they create on 180 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: golf courses to you know, make it more difficult, water 181 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: plays a big role. Well, if you have water down there, 182 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: guess who's going to wind up in the water. You're 183 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: going to have alligators. And I was always fascinated by 184 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: people that would approach these things and without a without 185 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: giving a second thought. They show no mercy whatsoever. You 186 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: are food as far or a threat, right, And you know, 187 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: I think more so a threat with a bear as 188 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: opposed to food with an alligator. Your food dude, I mean, 189 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: that's what you are. And the fact that we have 190 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: no we have no we have no sense, we have 191 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: no sense of fear. Many times around and and so 192 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: when I hear, when I hear anything that involves an 193 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: animal attack, I'm always fascinated by this, certainly from a 194 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: forensic standpoint, to try to understand it, what happened, What 195 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: do the injuries look like? Because for every every animal 196 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: that you have, their bite is going to be different. 197 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: The destruction that they that they they reek over over 198 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: an individual is going to vary, you know, dependent upon 199 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: how they are set up at a very you know, 200 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: the very primal level. So you know, I'm thinking I 201 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: hear this case about the baritone, and there's a lot 202 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: more to this, Joe. 203 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: When you're going through boy Scouts and you're learning to camp, 204 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: you know, there's it starts at a young age, but 205 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: then as you age up you go on different camping trips. 206 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 2: As a boy scouting, I learned a lot of things 207 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: in scouting, and one of the things that you learn 208 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: when you're out off grade camping, you know, like and 209 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: that's what we're talking about today. We're not talking about 210 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,599 Speaker 2: a camping area where you pull your car up and 211 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: can plug into an outlet, and all that this is. 212 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: This is camping where you look around and you find 213 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: a relatively flat place to put your tent up. And 214 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: they always tell you in boy Scouts you take all 215 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: of your food and you hang it, hang it yep, 216 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 2: and by the way, that includes toothpaste. You hang anything 217 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: that has a smell, and you hang it on a 218 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: branch high enough up where it can because bears are 219 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 2: attracted to this. You do not want a bear coming 220 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: into your tent looking for your cookies. And knowing that 221 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 2: and seeing the headline on this story that a nine 222 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: to one one call comes in and the man says, 223 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: I was supposed to meet my friend and he never 224 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: showed up, so I went looking for him, found his tent, 225 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: and I think he has been killed by a bear. 226 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: There are so many things in that nine to one 227 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: one call, or that we've been told. I have not 228 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: heard the call yet, it hasn't been released, but what 229 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: I have heard about what was said on that call, Joe. 230 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: Immediately my thought went to your discussion a couple of 231 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: shows ago about the finder, the person who finds the victim. 232 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: And I looked at what the finder said what the 233 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: person the victim was doing. And you put all this 234 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: together and you're thinking, these people know what the outdoors 235 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: is like the finder and the victim. They know what 236 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: it is to do real camping. They know what it's 237 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: like to be in the woods. They know the type 238 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: of animals that are out there to do you harm. 239 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: And I'm putting all that into play as I look 240 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: at this, and I'm thinking bear attack. Huh. When the 241 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: Sheriff's department gets out there, Joe, they take a look. 242 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: They've been told bear attack, so they're thinking that, but 243 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: they immediately start looking in the area and what they 244 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: don't find is any sign of bear activity. 245 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. And these people are to be a law enforcement 246 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: officer in Montana, and it was actually the Wildlife Gain people, 247 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, that made this assessment. You know, but I 248 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: think that even your regular deputy that's on patrol out there, 249 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: they encounterbears. I mean, that's the nature of living out there, 250 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: and even they understand what to look for with bears. 251 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: First off, you know you're going to look and see. 252 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: One of the biggest things is obviously prints. They're very distinctive. 253 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: You know, when you see them, you're looking for where 254 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: they refer to as scat, which is their waste that's 255 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: out in that area, and you'll get a sense and 256 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: many times with bears in particular, you'll see I've seen 257 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: this even with Eastern black bears, where they will scratch 258 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: on trees and they'll create these huge marks. And that's 259 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: another thing that's another like dose of reality. When you 260 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: see these scratch marks that they'll make on trees and whatnot. 261 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: Suddenly you have this realization of what could what this 262 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: thing can do with merely a swipe a swipe of 263 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: one of their paws. And you're talking about and they 264 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: have these these retractable claws as well. I don't think 265 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: that they're retractable to the level of like a cat, 266 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: but you don't fully appreciate these things when you see 267 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: those hands the bear's pause rather not hands, when you 268 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: see them kind of extended out and you get an 269 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: idea as to how big these claws are. That the 270 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: same has we're not even talking about the teeth man, 271 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: and they are absolutely rais or sharp. So one of 272 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: the things that I think as an investigator that you're 273 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: trying to understand when you are trying to assess an 274 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: area where an animal attack has taken place. You're not 275 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: going to look for, Dave, to be ordered. There is 276 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,959 Speaker 1: not an ordered event when it comes to a wild 277 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: animal attacking. And you know, when the police get out there, 278 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: they get out to this site and they're looking around, 279 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: you don't see things ripto shreds, you don't see things overturned. Heck, 280 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: you don't even see evidence in the dirt that there's 281 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: been a scuffle, a struggle. You don't even see blood. 282 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, when it comes to 283 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: an attack like that, you would see total and complete chaos. Dave. 284 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: You know, a few moments ago you'd mentioned the initial 285 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: reporter or finder, you know, in a case. And isn't 286 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: that interesting how a narrative will begin with that initial 287 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: statement that the finder makes, so even though the finder 288 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: might not be qualified to assess a situation. You see 289 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: this with suicides a lot. I think that I think 290 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: that you know, you've got to call and it's like 291 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: I think that my friend, my family member has uh 292 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: has been you know, murdered, and you get out there 293 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: and then you discover there's a weapon underneath the body, 294 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: that this person has self inflicted, as opposed to just 295 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: being you know something else. You walk onto a scene 296 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: where you see horrible injuries on a body, I think 297 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: that the mind goes to, Okay, what could have generated 298 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: this kind of injury and what is there out here 299 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: that could facilitate this, And automatically your mind goes to 300 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: bear attack because that's what inhabits this area, grizzlies and 301 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: black bears by the way, in this particular region. And so, 302 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, you kind of take your pick as to 303 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: you know what. You know, you don't know what species, 304 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: but automatically you didn't say panther attack or mountain lion attack. Rather, 305 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: I think or it was a bobcat. You say bear, 306 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: And so that gets I printed in your brain as 307 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: an investigator and you start working this thing. If you're 308 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: not careful, you get tunnel vision really really quickly because 309 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: you're not looking at any other options. In this case. 310 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: Got to tell you, Dave, the evidence of a bear 311 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: attack was greatly lacking, to say the least. 312 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 2: His campsite is about two and a half miles up 313 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: what they call Moose Creek Road, and the way it 314 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: was written was up Moose Creek Road, and that's where 315 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 2: he put his tent. Now his friend finds him at 316 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: ten am Saturday morning. I'm going to go on the 317 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: assumption because it has been said there is no say 318 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: Deer's service there at the ten site that he sees 319 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 2: what has taken place, and he has to go back 320 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: to an area to call nine one one. Knowing how 321 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: these calls often go, the operator is asking you to 322 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: give them specific information on site, but he wouldn't be 323 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: on site making the nine one one call. He would 324 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 2: be away from it. So the things that the operator 325 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: would know would need to know to pass along to 326 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: law enforcement. They can't get it's going to be I 327 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 2: saw this briefly, but I can't go check it now 328 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: because it's two and a half miles away or whatever. 329 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I got a Let's take a pause here 330 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: and consider the environment that we're working in. They you know, 331 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: we're looking at it. I think probably from their perspective, 332 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: are from our perspective relative to being in maybe not 333 00:21:54,160 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: a densely populated urban area, but populated certainly populated compared 334 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: to Montana like where we live, or if you're in 335 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: Atlanta or Birmingham or you know, Nashville or whatever. They 336 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: adjust to this though, and so they they're keen to 337 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: it because this is the area in which they police. 338 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: You can imagine some of these calls that a nine 339 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: one one operator might get up there and you're saying, 340 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, and they're giving you a reference. Well, it's 341 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: where the big ledge right ledges hanging over the dirt road. 342 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: You pointed that out, Yeah, exactly, And so they're you know, 343 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: they're thinking about about this, you know how you know, 344 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: they know where Moose Creek Road is, and they know 345 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: that there's an intersection up there of say an adjacent road. 346 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: I think that, and it's a spot, it's a spot 347 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: that other hunters go to, you know, because you know 348 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: there's us outfitters, campers and people that just want to 349 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: get away. But you know, you've got like Moose Creek 350 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: Road and it's near Tampery Creek Road, so you've got 351 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: that intersection to work on. But yeah, I mean, you're 352 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: talking about going two and a half miles off the 353 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: road back up into an area, and and it would 354 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: seem to imply that he's been there before, can you 355 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: think so? I mean, because you're not going to show 356 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,239 Speaker 1: up there just randomly. You're going to know, you're going 357 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: to know the area it's a select area. I don't know. 358 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: Maybe he's hunted fish trapped in that area before. Maybe 359 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: it's just a good place he likes to go and 360 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: get away. Maybe he likes the fact he doesn't have 361 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: cell service up there. 362 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: Could be and based on again going back to the 363 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 2: timeline here, you know of when he was seen and 364 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: what his plan was, he was already planning on being 365 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: there for the overnight time, you know, Thursday night and 366 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: a Friday by himself. He's got a plan to meet 367 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: his friend Friday afternoon, and he doesn't show. I don't 368 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 2: know when the friend. I don't know if the friends 369 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 2: started looking for him Friday afternoon when he didn't show, 370 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: or if he just waited and so out. You know, 371 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 2: I'll go if I don't hear from him tonight, I'll 372 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: go looking in the morning. The fact they found him 373 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: at ten am sounds about right to me that he 374 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: would start looking in the Saturday morning. But Joe, we've 375 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 2: got the guy calling in a vicious bear attack or 376 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 2: he tells nine one one it looks like a bear attack, 377 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: which I'm going to go out on a limb here 378 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: and say, if it was a bear attack, the tent 379 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 2: would not be standing up. Mister bear doesn't walk. It's 380 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 2: not Yogi and booboo. They're not walking into the tent 381 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 2: killing somebody and then leaving the tent. The tent is 382 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: going to be torn to smith the reens, I would think. 383 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 2: And if the tint, if the bear, if a bear 384 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 2: attack took place inside a tent, there's gonna be shredded everything. 385 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it'll be completely shredded. And you'll see what. 386 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: Another thing that you're going to see that will be 387 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: associated with this is the bear planting its feet solidly, 388 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: rising up probably on its haunches or on its rear legs, 389 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: and then swiping with the leading you know, with the 390 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: leading paw, and you'll see these kind of gouge marks 391 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: in the ground where they're trying to, you know, the 392 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: animals trying to leverage itself in order to facilitate this attack. 393 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: And so with that, with that playing a part in it, 394 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: you would get up there, it would seem like it 395 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: would seem like total chaos in this environment, and there 396 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: would be evidence of that. But you're talking about from 397 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: what we can ascertain, we've got an individual that has 398 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: walked in to a site. He's found his friend he's 399 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: in what we believe is an intact tent, which a 400 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: tent for a bear is nothing, a camper is nothing 401 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: for a bear. It really provides you. Oh yeah, I 402 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: mean it could. I think that it could. Particularly like 403 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: for instance, we you know, I know that, you know, 404 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: we were when the kids were little. We took up 405 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: a pop up camper up to what's referred to as 406 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: Rhan Mountain, which is a far eastern Tennessee It's one 407 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: of my favorite areas of the country, and camped up there. 408 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: We had bears outside outside of our pop up camper 409 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: there with the kids in it. And you have not 410 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: lived until you hear the sound of first off, a 411 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: bear blowing like that, and then here's the other thing 412 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: that's really chilling them sniffing. It's really really loud, and wen, 413 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: you could hear it outside of our camper. So yeah, 414 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: they'll rip things to shreds. And they're not they're not ordered, 415 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like it's not like you're going 416 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: to show up at a scene and there's been a 417 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: bear attack and everything is in that's it's been staged 418 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: in somebody where it's very neat, you know, and and 419 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: it's just it's pristine, and you've just got a traumatize 420 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: You happen to have a traumatized body line there with 421 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: ghastly injuries, and there's no other evidence that this had occurred. 422 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: Which is exactly what happened here. They got there and 423 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: went no way. I mean, you know, they got to 424 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: this campsite and said they they're thinking bear. But there's 425 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 2: something that you actually have taught me, and that is 426 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: every death is treated as a homicide until you did 427 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: it no differently. Yeah, And as they're walking into this, 428 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 2: on the one hand, they're going, okay, guy said bear attack. 429 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: That'll be an obvious. Get We're going to walk up 430 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: there and we're going to see the scattered remains of 431 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 2: the campsite and the human being that is no longer 432 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: with us. And they get there and don't find that 433 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 2: they I'm going to go on an assumption here, Joe, 434 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: that they look at one another and go, where's the finder? 435 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 2: You know, where's the guy that called this in? 436 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, how how did you? How did 437 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: you make this assessment? And look, it's it's when you 438 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: have somebody making this kind of assessment that is familiar 439 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: with this area. Now I don't know if this finder 440 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: has ever seen a bear attack. I have no idea, 441 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 1: but if they're a native to that area, you have 442 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: to assume that they've at least seen trash cans turned over, 443 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: they've seen things torn open, and I have I've seen 444 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: a bear go through an area relative to food. You know, 445 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: you were talking about hanging food up. I've seen picnic 446 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: tables that are overturned where they're just sniffing through that 447 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: huge snout that they have. You know, their their sense 448 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: of smell is equal to that of a dog, if 449 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: not more powerful actually, because that's how they find food. 450 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: It's not like they're necessarily hunting with their eyes. They're 451 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: trying to catch catch wind of something where they can go, 452 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: and they'll eat just about anything. You know, they'll eat. 453 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: What they refer to is like Karen, you know the 454 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: things that are left behind that are rotting. They're not 455 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: going to necessarily go out and kill a deer, but 456 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: if they find a dead deer, they'll feast on it. Now, 457 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: they will eat smaller animals, they'll eat grubs, they'll eat berries. 458 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: You know, bears famously eat berries. You know, it's one 459 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: of things you Yoki bear, you know they're going to eat. 460 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: They're just they just want to eat. Think about you 461 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: think about the size of one of these things. Just 462 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: think about the size of it. They're massive, all right, 463 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: We're talking for five hundred pounds, dude. Do you realize 464 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: how much gasoline you got to have in the tank 465 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: to power that thing? So it's a it's a constant 466 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: search for food, always, always, and they'll go to any 467 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: links to get it, particularly if they're trying to feed. 468 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: Maybe they've got cubs, we don't know. 469 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: So what is this? 470 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: Are we talking about a single male bear that's walking 471 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: around here that's just scavenging? Are we look? Is this 472 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: a mother bear that's trying to feed these babies that 473 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: she's got. And you know they're going to understand, you know, 474 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: what time of year would would she have children on board? 475 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: How old would would the I say children? Would she 476 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: have cubs on board that perhaps have yet to be born? 477 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: Or does she have them trailing? After all, these things 478 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: are going to come into play when you begin to 479 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: assess this. And here's the key. The people that are 480 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: actually doing the assessment on the scene are highly skilled 481 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: because it's not simply a deputy sheriff that's out there. 482 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: The clues were discovered by the wildlife fisheries officers that 483 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: showed up, because there's one thing that they do know. 484 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: They know about animal life and they know what they're 485 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: capable of. Dave, am I right, did they do a 486 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: descriptor of the injuries that this young man sustained out 487 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: there at the scene? 488 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: You know, Joe, they have They actually have an autopsy report, 489 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: but we haven't seen it yet, but they've referred to it. 490 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: They being the sheriff and those involved in this investigation, 491 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: they have referred to the autopsy report backing up their 492 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: assessment that this was not a bear attack. And Joe, 493 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: what they have said, I want to get this right, Okay, 494 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 2: the they don't know what sort of weapon was used, 495 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: but they know it was something that was hard enough 496 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: to cause significant damage. And according to Detective Captain Nate Camerman, 497 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 2: the victim, Dustin has multiple chop wounds. Chop wounds, that's 498 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: the phrase used here, chop wounds. I'm thinking axe, hatchet, 499 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 2: tomahawk chop, you know, watching ball games when they do 500 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 2: the tomahawk chop or whatever. And I know that's all 501 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: politically incorrect now to say something like that, but I mean. 502 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: I don't care. 503 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out what a chop wound would 504 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 2: look like. I've used an axe. I've used a hatchet 505 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: on wood, not human beings, but on wood, and I 506 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: know that sometimes it gets stuck and you have to 507 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 2: wedge it out a little bit with using your foot. 508 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: And so what are we talking about with chopp wounds 509 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 2: on a human being? 510 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: Joe, Well, you're first off, when you strike someone with 511 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: a heavy edged weapon, which if you're okay, let's just 512 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: let's kind of take it down the list here. We 513 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: could we could think about a machete, okay, which is 514 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, people think a machete is kind of like 515 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: a big knife or it's kind of uh, you know, 516 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: some people might view a machete because it's got a 517 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: hilt guard on it and everything is like a sword, 518 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: all right. 519 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 2: It's not. 520 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: Machetes are created to chop with and famously, you know, 521 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: they've been used all over the world, even in wartime, 522 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: relative to clearing brush if you're trying to you know, 523 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: our guys in Vietnam, you know, had machetes because the 524 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: brush is so so you're you're cutting and it's a 525 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: tool too. I mean that you would use to cut 526 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: sugarcane with, for instance, and. 527 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: It tires you out very quickly. If you vague you 528 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: never used one. 529 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it is tiresome. But they're they're created 530 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: in a very specific manner and the weight is on 531 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: the backstrap of this thing so that when you're delivering 532 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: delivering a blow. And I think that probably a machete 533 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: is the least of these as far as the damage 534 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: it can do. You're trying to direct that energy that 535 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: is being generated as you swing this thing down. You've 536 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: got top end weight, you've got a sharp leading edge. 537 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: The one thing that you're going to see with a 538 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: chop wound with a machete, First off, it's going to 539 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: be kind of long compared to a hatchet or an axe, 540 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: will it will be kind of shallow. Well, if you 541 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: go to a hatchet, it's got more weight to it, 542 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 1: and it is. If you've never held a hatchet, think 543 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: about a hammer, Okay, a hammer with a weighted blade 544 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: on the end of it. Now, some people, you know, 545 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: hatchets have multiple utility. I've used them many times to 546 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: drive in tent steaks when we go out tent camping, 547 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: and you can flip it around on the blooded edge 548 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: and drive in tent steaks. You can flip it over 549 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: to the other side and you can use it chop wood, 550 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 1: break up, kindling those sorts of things, Okay, a multi 551 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: use tool, and a lot of people that camp carry hatchets. Okay, 552 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: Then you get up to something like an axe. Most 553 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: of the time, you're not going to come across say, 554 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: for instance, a two bladed axe. I think we think 555 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: about that. You'd mentioned Paul Bundy in a moment ago. 556 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: You know, he famously carries a two sided or a 557 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: two bladed axe. Generally, you're going to have an individual 558 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: blade and it'll be weighted on the back and again 559 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: this idea, it's like a giant wedge being driven through 560 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: the air so that when it slams down onto the target, 561 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: you're going to get depth with it. Okay, the more 562 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: leverage that you can apply, that's going to translate to 563 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: the weight of that blade and then end up that 564 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: energy transferring onto the surface. You're going to have the 565 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: skin that will have these really neat kind of margins 566 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: to it, because you're talking about a machine edged blade. 567 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: But the other thing that you're going to get with 568 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: it is that the heavier the acts, the deeper it's 569 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: going to go. So you begin to impact the underlying muscle. 570 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: You also begin to impact the skeletal structures below. But 571 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, Dave, those skeletal structures below are equally going 572 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: to be if they're struck by an edged weapon like 573 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: this in a chopping motion, they will have neat edges 574 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: on them as well. So you can actually see this 575 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: on the markings of the bone. The bone will fracture, 576 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: but it's not it's not going to be to the 577 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: point where you can't appreciate the margins of the instruments 578 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: being used. So you would actually look at this as 579 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. One of the things that you 580 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: would do with a case like this at the morgue 581 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 1: is you're going to do initially the initial assessment externally 582 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: where you're you know, you're gauging these injuries and all 583 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But then you'll actually dissect out 584 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: the wound and you can go down. Now you'll have 585 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: X rays too, but you will go down and examine 586 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,479 Speaker 1: the bone as well as you might even cut out 587 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 1: that bone. You'll take that bone and save it. Okay, 588 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: to demonstrate this in a future case. All right, now, 589 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,439 Speaker 1: if we drop back just for a second and think 590 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: about a bear attack for instance, okay, well the bear attack. 591 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: If you're thinking about a bear attack, and what was it? 592 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,240 Speaker 1: See I mentioned just a few seconds ago the two 593 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,800 Speaker 1: species of bears that they have up there, like black 594 00:37:53,840 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: bear and grizzly. Well, black bears, they do. Black bears 595 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: and grizzlies obviously use their paws to attack, all right, 596 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: and you'll get these you'll get these swipes at the individual. 597 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 1: I saw an image of a guy that had gotten 598 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: attacked by a by grizzly at at a point time. 599 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 1: His face was greatly disfigured and wound up having extensive 600 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: plastic surgery. But the initial image that you see, you 601 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: can actually pick up on the pattern because you're not 602 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: like if it's a paw. 603 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: Or claw. 604 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: Rather, you're not just going to have a single linear 605 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: mark that's going to run on a face or on 606 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: a chest. You're going to have this times for probably. Okay, 607 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: So it's like a giant rake, if you will, a 608 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: very heavy robust rake that you will see with these 609 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: kind of claw marks. But that's not really what's going 610 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: to do you in with a bear attack bear attack 611 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: is actually going to be them using their jaws, okay, 612 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 1: because once they swipe at you and knock you down, 613 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: all right, they're going after you with their mouth. And 614 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: a bear has about I think a grizzly bear can 615 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: generate about thirteen hundred psi pounds per square inch, And 616 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: to put that in perspective, that's more than a Bengal tiger. 617 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: All right. Now, you can get out to alligators and 618 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: crocs and great whites. Great whites I think go up 619 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: to like thirty two hundred psi. So, but what do 620 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: you get when you when you have that kind of 621 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,439 Speaker 1: pressure directly applied to an area, particularly a bony structure. Well, 622 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: i'll tell you what you're going to get. You're going 623 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: to get fractured, fragmented bone that's beneath that, and it's 624 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 1: it is going to be so ghastly when you see 625 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: these injuries because the motion of an animal. If you've 626 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: ever seen a dog, for instance, where they are taking 627 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: apart a piece of meat. Let's say you give them 628 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: a steak bone and they've got it collapsed between their paws. 629 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: They bite into the steakbone. They're trying to get to 630 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,919 Speaker 1: the meat. They will bite and pull the rip. That's 631 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: one of the reasons the canines prominent, the pointy teeth 632 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: that we have, you know, in our maxillary and our 633 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: mangellary teeth. The canines are meant for ripping. Just take 634 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: a look at the teeth of a bear sometime. You'll 635 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: see those canones very prominently featured. And so they're trying 636 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: to grab hold with their paws as they've got something 637 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: be pinned down. Then they bite into it and they 638 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: they'll turn their head and rip at the same time. 639 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: This is very disordered day. This is chaotic when you 640 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: see these kinds of injuries and a body would be 641 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: covered with them. That's not what they're saying here, Dave. 642 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: They're saying that these injuries that in this isolated location 643 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 1: two and half miles from where his truck would have been, 644 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 1: off the beaten path. Back in this isolated area, somebody 645 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: came after this guy with an instrument that he could 646 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: be chopped with and these and what they're saying is 647 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: is that I can't remember the gentleman's name that gave 648 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: the press conference, but he had mentioned specifically that these 649 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: were chop chop injuries and he's in the police officer 650 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: that released information. It's not him making this assessment. They 651 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: took they took his body and had his body autopsied 652 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: by forensic pathologists. I suspect somewhere like Bozeman or whatnot, 653 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: and they took his body and had an autopsy. You've 654 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: got a forensic pathologist making this assessment. They've documented every 655 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: bit of this day. 656 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 2: And that's why we looked at the case from the 657 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 2: standpoint of the finder saying it was a bear attack 658 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 2: and the actual experts saying, huh uh, this does not 659 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 2: show any sign of bear attack. There's nothing around the campsite. 660 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 2: There's no sign of bear activity around this area. 661 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: Here's one other thing. I got to go back to 662 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: the forensics real quick, please do. I'm thinking about his 663 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: body now. We know his body has been found inside 664 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: the confounds of a tent. Okay, if you're chopping someone 665 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: to death. Now, I don't know how big the tent, 666 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: it might be a yurt, for all I know those 667 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: big things. Doubt, A doubt, a doubt, this is a yurt. Okay, 668 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: hover if you've never been in a tent and you 669 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 1: got too much space in there to be swinging anything around, 670 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: all right, matter of fact, you're very confined inside of 671 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: a tent. Whoever was a perpetrator on this, and they're 672 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, they're investigating this as a homicide, all right, 673 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: So let's just go ahead and put that out there. 674 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: We know that whoever would have perpetrated this would have 675 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: had significant evidence transferred to their body because from what 676 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: we understand, Dustin's injuries involved his skull and other points 677 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: along his body. But he it's almost it almost sounds 678 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: like a disfigurement kind of thing where you've got fractured bone. 679 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: This this instrument that they're describing, you know, the chopping 680 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: in injuries that's going to particularly when it comes to 681 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: the skull, that's going to crush the skull, so you're 682 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: going to have a tremendous amount of blood. There might 683 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: be brain matter, that sort of thing. Here's my question. 684 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: If there's no blood deposition on the surrounding walls, if 685 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: you will, of the tent, where did this happen? We 686 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: have to assume that it didn't happen in the tent. 687 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: Maybe it did, but if I was a betting dude, 688 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: I'd probably say no. So if they didn't see that 689 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: inside the tent, where their drag marks leading up to 690 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: the tent. Was there somebody watching him as he set up? 691 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 2: Can? 692 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: Did somebody follow him? You know, they saw his car 693 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: being parked. Maybe I don't know what's going on up 694 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: in that wooded area. Could it be a drug related 695 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: event where you've got he stumbled onto the wrong group 696 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,320 Speaker 1: of folks that were up there trying to isolate themselves. 697 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: And that has happened in the past, where you just 698 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: got some that's instantly walking through an area. It might 699 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: be an area they're familiar with. Maybe they were engaged 700 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: in nefarious activity and they did this. But when you 701 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: begin to think about the brutality of this, we're not 702 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: talking about taking, you know, a nine millimeters pistol and 703 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: merely shooting somebody. No, we're talking about engagement. And this man, 704 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: Dustin is not someone that is lacking strength this as 705 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: you said, he's a man's man. He works out, he's 706 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: an outdoor kind of guy. Okay, he's building he's building houses. 707 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: He's not just building houses, he's building house in Montana. Dude. 708 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: You know he's he's you know, he's where, he's very robust, 709 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: all right. So the fact that he's up there and 710 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: someone feels comfortable enough to attack this man. This is 711 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,919 Speaker 1: a dangerous individual that's floating around. I don't know who 712 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: they are, and this goes is to an idea of 713 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: disfigurement day. I mean, they're they're trying to ruin him. 714 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: This is not just merely killing him. This is wrecking 715 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: him to this point. So I don't know. We're we're 716 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna hold out hope that they're going to 717 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: be able to track somebody down in Dustin's case and 718 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,839 Speaker 1: maybe come back with with information that's going to help 719 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: solve this. Uh. The Sheriff's office up there by the 720 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: way has put out a couple of phone numbers and 721 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: let me let me throw these out there to all 722 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: of our friends. The first one is is aery code 723 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,839 Speaker 1: four oh six five eight two twenty one, twenty one, 724 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: and they're saying for urgent tips, that number is four 725 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: oh six five eight two. That's two to one zero zero. 726 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: So any information that you might have in regards to 727 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:16,839 Speaker 1: this man's death, his brutal, brutal death, Hoping that we 728 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: can get some answers and try to understand what happened 729 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: and get this person in custody that did this. It's 730 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: going to be very important because I don't think anybody's 731 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,919 Speaker 1: safe up there until this person's off the streets. I'm 732 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.