1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:20,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hello, Hello, everyone, You're in for a treat today. 2 00:00:21,196 --> 00:00:23,436 Speaker 1: I'm going to do battle on behalf of my three 3 00:00:23,516 --> 00:00:26,716 Speaker 1: year old against some of the leading intellectuals of our day. 4 00:00:27,276 --> 00:00:31,396 Speaker 1: My producer says this is her favorite revisionist history episode ever. 5 00:00:32,156 --> 00:00:35,756 Speaker 1: As they say on the internet, big if true. If 6 00:00:35,756 --> 00:00:37,916 Speaker 1: you missed it. We opened this many season with two 7 00:00:37,956 --> 00:00:40,396 Speaker 1: episodes about the death of George Floyd, which I hope 8 00:00:40,396 --> 00:00:43,236 Speaker 1: you listen to if you haven't already, and coming up soon. 9 00:00:43,596 --> 00:00:47,236 Speaker 1: My colleague Benda daph Haffrey gives us the real story 10 00:00:47,676 --> 00:00:51,076 Speaker 1: about well, I'm not going to tell you. All I'll 11 00:00:51,076 --> 00:00:54,476 Speaker 1: say is when I listen to it, every single fact 12 00:00:54,956 --> 00:00:58,236 Speaker 1: Ben relates in that episode was something I'd never heard 13 00:00:58,276 --> 00:01:00,996 Speaker 1: of before. Oh and one last thing. I mentioned it 14 00:01:01,076 --> 00:01:03,716 Speaker 1: last week. I'm doing my tour with No Small Endeavor 15 00:01:03,796 --> 00:01:08,516 Speaker 1: and Drew Holcombe April ninth in Louisville, April tenth in Indianapolis, 16 00:01:08,756 --> 00:01:11,836 Speaker 1: and April eleventh in Grand Rapids. It's going to be 17 00:01:11,836 --> 00:01:14,276 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. If you live anywhere near those cities, 18 00:01:14,876 --> 00:01:17,636 Speaker 1: you gotta go check it out at No Small Endeavor 19 00:01:17,916 --> 00:01:24,396 Speaker 1: dot com. Okay, off we go. Enjoy everyone. Every night, 20 00:01:24,676 --> 00:01:28,196 Speaker 1: after bath and just before bedtime. My three year old 21 00:01:28,196 --> 00:01:31,076 Speaker 1: and I settled down in front of the television. 22 00:01:31,396 --> 00:01:31,996 Speaker 2: Pomcho. 23 00:01:32,516 --> 00:01:37,596 Speaker 3: Pomcho will be there on the double never there's a problem, 24 00:01:38,036 --> 00:01:39,276 Speaker 3: rounded bench base. 25 00:01:40,156 --> 00:01:42,156 Speaker 1: If you're not a parent of a young child, it's 26 00:01:42,316 --> 00:01:45,196 Speaker 1: entirely possible you have no idea what pap Patrol is. 27 00:01:45,396 --> 00:01:48,756 Speaker 1: That's fine. Before I had children, I had never heard 28 00:01:48,756 --> 00:01:52,196 Speaker 1: of it either, So let me explain. It's a multi 29 00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:56,756 Speaker 1: billion dollar franchise centered around a band of puppies who 30 00:01:56,756 --> 00:02:00,116 Speaker 1: are called upon in each episode to rescue someone in peril. 31 00:02:00,436 --> 00:02:03,716 Speaker 1: There's a police dog named Chase, a fire dog named Marshall, 32 00:02:03,996 --> 00:02:07,916 Speaker 1: a helicopter pilot named Sky, a roadworks puppy named Rubble. 33 00:02:08,556 --> 00:02:12,196 Speaker 1: They stop when we trains, They fight fires, They repair 34 00:02:12,276 --> 00:02:17,396 Speaker 1: the damaged flying saucers of adorable stranded aliens with enormous eyes. 35 00:02:18,636 --> 00:02:22,556 Speaker 1: You get the picture. Among toddlers, pow Patrol is bigger 36 00:02:22,596 --> 00:02:25,716 Speaker 1: than Elmo. It's bigger than Mickey Mouse. Just ask my 37 00:02:25,796 --> 00:02:27,436 Speaker 1: daughter Pa Patrol. 38 00:02:27,916 --> 00:02:33,636 Speaker 4: We're on the double wherever it is. Alb Don invent today, 39 00:02:34,836 --> 00:02:39,876 Speaker 4: rather is the female popule Gold and Fee Today. Marshall, Wobble, 40 00:02:40,036 --> 00:02:45,836 Speaker 4: Jay's Lucky new a guy I like Luck, Foculous. 41 00:02:46,996 --> 00:02:50,836 Speaker 1: And yet for some reason, every parent I know, every 42 00:02:50,916 --> 00:02:54,676 Speaker 1: student of children's television, every adult who has more than 43 00:02:54,676 --> 00:02:57,956 Speaker 1: a passing interest in the intellectual and moral development of 44 00:02:57,996 --> 00:03:03,596 Speaker 1: our young hates pop Patrol. Like the Reddit thread, Paw 45 00:03:03,676 --> 00:03:08,636 Speaker 1: Patrol has ruined by child's brain quote. Everything about Paw 46 00:03:08,716 --> 00:03:14,036 Speaker 1: Patrol is awful. The yelling and constant panic, the stereotypes, 47 00:03:14,036 --> 00:03:17,116 Speaker 1: the terrible design, the tropes. I wish it would disappear 48 00:03:17,116 --> 00:03:18,516 Speaker 1: from the face of the earth and take all of 49 00:03:18,556 --> 00:03:23,716 Speaker 1: its merch with it. Go to TikTok. They hate the puppies. 50 00:03:23,956 --> 00:03:26,756 Speaker 2: There's some things that really piss me off when it 51 00:03:26,756 --> 00:03:30,596 Speaker 2: comes to Popatrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. My sun 52 00:03:30,636 --> 00:03:32,156 Speaker 2: watches Paw Patrol. I hate it. 53 00:03:32,876 --> 00:03:37,356 Speaker 1: Everyone hates it except for me. And this episode is 54 00:03:37,396 --> 00:03:41,196 Speaker 1: my attempt to convince you that I'm right and everyone 55 00:03:41,196 --> 00:03:46,916 Speaker 1: else is wrong. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening 56 00:03:46,916 --> 00:03:49,796 Speaker 1: to Revisionist History, my podcast where I like to argue 57 00:03:49,796 --> 00:03:52,756 Speaker 1: on behalf of things that all common sense suggests are 58 00:03:52,756 --> 00:03:58,996 Speaker 1: not true. The following defense of Power Patrol is squarely 59 00:03:59,036 --> 00:04:02,196 Speaker 1: in that tradition. It is a search and rescue mission 60 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:06,396 Speaker 1: for a show about search and rescue missions in all 61 00:04:06,396 --> 00:04:10,756 Speaker 1: my long years of doing revisionist history, I have never 62 00:04:11,516 --> 00:04:20,236 Speaker 1: tackled a more forbidding task. I started by calling people, 63 00:04:20,876 --> 00:04:25,316 Speaker 1: anyone who I thought could help, asking the same questions 64 00:04:25,356 --> 00:04:28,636 Speaker 1: over and over again. First to a parent who had 65 00:04:28,636 --> 00:04:31,636 Speaker 1: lived through what I'm living through right now, we are 66 00:04:31,716 --> 00:04:37,556 Speaker 1: here to discuss poor Patrol, which looms large in my 67 00:04:37,596 --> 00:04:38,316 Speaker 1: life at the moment. 68 00:04:38,716 --> 00:04:39,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure. 69 00:04:40,756 --> 00:04:45,356 Speaker 1: Then again to an intellectual someone I admired. I don't 70 00:04:45,436 --> 00:04:48,316 Speaker 1: understand that the amount of hatred the show gets. And again, 71 00:04:48,476 --> 00:04:51,716 Speaker 1: this time to a sociologist, someone who has published in 72 00:04:51,796 --> 00:04:55,556 Speaker 1: academic journals on the Pow Patrol phenomenon. I am calling 73 00:04:55,596 --> 00:04:58,796 Speaker 1: you because I spend every night watching Paw Patrol. 74 00:05:00,036 --> 00:05:02,036 Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, sorry to hear that. 75 00:05:02,316 --> 00:05:05,596 Speaker 1: I spent so much time googling Pow Patrol. Google started 76 00:05:05,636 --> 00:05:08,916 Speaker 1: feeding me Paw Patrol content, like the actress Kia Knightley 77 00:05:09,156 --> 00:05:11,716 Speaker 1: on The Tonight Show explaining what it's like to be 78 00:05:11,796 --> 00:05:14,636 Speaker 1: the mother of a three year old. Wait for it, 79 00:05:15,076 --> 00:05:17,356 Speaker 1: baby's a toddler. Baby's not a baby. 80 00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:17,716 Speaker 2: It's not anymore. 81 00:05:17,836 --> 00:05:20,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's huge, three and a half, three and a half. 82 00:05:20,236 --> 00:05:22,396 Speaker 2: Are you into uh? Are you into Paw Patrol? 83 00:05:22,516 --> 00:05:23,596 Speaker 5: Oh? 84 00:05:23,836 --> 00:05:28,556 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Everyone is sorry. Well, 85 00:05:29,116 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 1: I'm into Paw Patrol and I'm not sorry. Paw Patrol 86 00:05:34,596 --> 00:05:40,036 Speaker 1: takes place in two imaginary towns, Adventure Bay and Foggy Bottom. 87 00:05:40,156 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: The group has as its headquarters what looks like a 88 00:05:42,996 --> 00:05:47,316 Speaker 1: giant postmodern air traffic control center, complete with a really 89 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:50,276 Speaker 1: cool fire station poll that moves the members of the 90 00:05:50,276 --> 00:05:53,676 Speaker 1: Paw Patrol from the briefing room to their waiting vehicles, 91 00:05:54,796 --> 00:05:58,076 Speaker 1: vehicles which are all, by the way, available separately for purchase. 92 00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:05,556 Speaker 1: In a typical Paw Patrol episode, and I say typical 93 00:06:05,556 --> 00:06:08,956 Speaker 1: when I really mean every single Paw Patrol episode ever, 94 00:06:09,596 --> 00:06:13,516 Speaker 1: someone in the greater Adventure Bay Foggy Bottom metropolitan area 95 00:06:13,716 --> 00:06:16,916 Speaker 1: has a problem. They call Rider, who is a little 96 00:06:16,956 --> 00:06:19,876 Speaker 1: boy in charge of the Paw Patrol operation. He summons 97 00:06:19,916 --> 00:06:23,076 Speaker 1: the pups from whatever adorably cute leisure activity they are 98 00:06:23,076 --> 00:06:23,676 Speaker 1: engaged in. 99 00:06:24,316 --> 00:06:31,436 Speaker 6: They come running, mighty pups too long, lookout, Rider needs us. 100 00:06:30,516 --> 00:06:32,956 Speaker 1: And without fail, the problem is solved. 101 00:06:33,156 --> 00:06:36,076 Speaker 7: No job is too big, no pump is too small. 102 00:06:36,196 --> 00:06:40,356 Speaker 1: For example, in season seven, episode thirteen, Pop Patrol pops 103 00:06:40,356 --> 00:06:43,596 Speaker 1: save Election Day, a particular favorite in the Glabal household, 104 00:06:43,956 --> 00:06:48,556 Speaker 1: Mayor Humdinger of Foggy Bottom has decided unexpectedly to run 105 00:06:48,556 --> 00:06:52,876 Speaker 1: for are of Adventure City, precipitating a crisis. Humdinger is 106 00:06:52,916 --> 00:06:55,956 Speaker 1: wreaking havoc on the campaign trail, causing all kinds of 107 00:06:56,036 --> 00:07:00,236 Speaker 1: chaos downtown. This leads Alex, an adorable little boy who 108 00:07:00,276 --> 00:07:02,796 Speaker 1: happens to find himself in the midst of the mayhem, 109 00:07:02,836 --> 00:07:03,596 Speaker 1: to call for help. 110 00:07:03,916 --> 00:07:06,716 Speaker 4: It all happened because Mayor Hundinger's kidneys are launching the 111 00:07:06,756 --> 00:07:09,316 Speaker 4: election stuff everywhere. 112 00:07:09,476 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 1: We'll be right there, Alex. There's a short briefing in 113 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:15,316 Speaker 1: the situation room. Writer gives that instructions. 114 00:07:15,396 --> 00:07:17,756 Speaker 4: So for this mission, I'll need Chase. 115 00:07:18,596 --> 00:07:20,156 Speaker 3: I need you to use your net to. 116 00:07:20,116 --> 00:07:23,516 Speaker 6: Stop mister porters out of control skateboard ride. Chase is 117 00:07:23,596 --> 00:07:27,156 Speaker 6: on the case, and Marsha, I'll need you to use 118 00:07:27,196 --> 00:07:30,156 Speaker 6: your lender to help get Danny Dun from that big billboard. 119 00:07:30,276 --> 00:07:33,036 Speaker 4: I'm ready for a rough, rough rescue. 120 00:07:32,876 --> 00:07:37,476 Speaker 1: And off the pops go. Hey guys, Hey, malcolme, how 121 00:07:37,516 --> 00:07:37,716 Speaker 1: you doing. 122 00:07:37,796 --> 00:07:38,396 Speaker 2: How's it go ahead? 123 00:07:38,676 --> 00:07:41,276 Speaker 1: I called up Cal Brunker and Bob Barlin, the writers 124 00:07:41,316 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 1: behind the Paw Patrol movies. I asked them why they 125 00:07:44,156 --> 00:07:45,876 Speaker 1: thought kids loved the show so much. 126 00:07:46,236 --> 00:07:49,236 Speaker 3: The structures are so clear and consistent from episode to 127 00:07:49,276 --> 00:07:52,476 Speaker 3: episode that it really it pulls them in and they're 128 00:07:52,516 --> 00:07:57,116 Speaker 3: able to feel comfortable and confident in that world of storytelling. 129 00:07:57,956 --> 00:08:01,156 Speaker 1: Oh I forgot to mention that in addition to eleven 130 00:08:01,196 --> 00:08:04,316 Speaker 1: seasons of Paw Patrol television shows, there have been two 131 00:08:04,756 --> 00:08:08,636 Speaker 1: Paw Patrol movies, which to get a grossed three hundred 132 00:08:08,636 --> 00:08:09,676 Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars. 133 00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:15,356 Speaker 3: The structure of the show is really quite smart in 134 00:08:15,436 --> 00:08:20,116 Speaker 3: how they go about every every rescue that takes place. 135 00:08:20,516 --> 00:08:24,756 Speaker 3: Writer tells the pops what they're gonna do, and then 136 00:08:24,796 --> 00:08:27,436 Speaker 3: they show up and they do the same thing that. 137 00:08:27,356 --> 00:08:28,996 Speaker 2: He's just told the audience. 138 00:08:29,036 --> 00:08:33,236 Speaker 3: So I think the participation level from a child is 139 00:08:33,276 --> 00:08:36,516 Speaker 3: able to be so much more because it's less surprising. 140 00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:39,276 Speaker 1: I did not grow up with the television, so this 141 00:08:39,356 --> 00:08:42,236 Speaker 1: experience is all new to me. Maybe that's why I 142 00:08:42,316 --> 00:08:45,556 Speaker 1: like Pop Patrol so much. Everyone else groans in silent 143 00:08:45,636 --> 00:08:49,156 Speaker 1: agony over the thought of watching, say, Pop Patrol the 144 00:08:49,236 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: movie for the fourth time. Me I'm like, what new 145 00:08:52,956 --> 00:08:55,596 Speaker 1: fresh insights can I glean this time around about Chase 146 00:08:55,636 --> 00:08:58,516 Speaker 1: the police dog, a German shepherd who struggles with feelings 147 00:08:58,556 --> 00:08:59,316 Speaker 1: of inadequacy. 148 00:08:59,636 --> 00:09:02,676 Speaker 3: Chase has got a backstory, and I mean that at 149 00:09:02,756 --> 00:09:07,556 Speaker 3: its highest level. Chase believes that being scared means he's 150 00:09:07,556 --> 00:09:09,796 Speaker 3: not a hero, and so he should be part of it. 151 00:09:09,916 --> 00:09:13,876 Speaker 3: And he learns that heroes get scared too, but keep going. 152 00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:14,956 Speaker 3: That's what makes them hero. 153 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:18,396 Speaker 1: Writer has that scene with him where they relive when 154 00:09:18,396 --> 00:09:21,676 Speaker 1: he found Chase for the first time. Yes, I love 155 00:09:21,876 --> 00:09:25,036 Speaker 1: I love to hear you saying that brings y on 156 00:09:25,156 --> 00:09:34,956 Speaker 1: what is clearly University avenue. That's, by the way, remember 157 00:09:34,956 --> 00:09:39,236 Speaker 1: that reference University avenue. What am I referring to? A 158 00:09:39,316 --> 00:09:42,036 Speaker 1: small clue to my grand unified theory of power patrol, 159 00:09:42,436 --> 00:09:45,236 Speaker 1: A clue which I'm guessing all the other parents missed 160 00:09:45,516 --> 00:09:50,556 Speaker 1: because they run their phones checking Instagram. Now that so, 161 00:09:51,116 --> 00:09:54,636 Speaker 1: because there is what's really interesting is it there? When 162 00:09:55,156 --> 00:10:00,196 Speaker 1: my daughter was watching that, she the first we've seen 163 00:10:00,236 --> 00:10:02,716 Speaker 1: it more than once, that movie, and the first time 164 00:10:02,796 --> 00:10:06,796 Speaker 1: she saw it, I think she was genuinely affected by it. 165 00:10:06,796 --> 00:10:08,196 Speaker 1: I mean it was clear it was a different kind 166 00:10:08,236 --> 00:10:11,636 Speaker 1: of emotional experience and she'd been getting from the TV shows. 167 00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:16,956 Speaker 1: In the second and third time. Gripping my hand tightly, 168 00:10:17,636 --> 00:10:20,516 Speaker 1: this is exactly what the corporate benefactors of the Paw 169 00:10:20,516 --> 00:10:25,356 Speaker 1: Patrol franchise desire a bonding moment between a dad and 170 00:10:25,436 --> 00:10:29,796 Speaker 1: his daughter over a disconsolate puppy. Was my daughter wearing 171 00:10:29,796 --> 00:10:33,676 Speaker 1: Paw Patrol pajamas as this was happening, Yes she was. 172 00:10:34,596 --> 00:10:38,396 Speaker 1: And yet there are people, lots of people who look 173 00:10:38,476 --> 00:10:43,716 Speaker 1: on that picture of family togetherness and cry foul? Can 174 00:10:43,756 --> 00:10:56,796 Speaker 1: you explain this? On several occasions, in the course of 175 00:10:56,836 --> 00:11:00,036 Speaker 1: almost a decade now of revisionist history, I have called 176 00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:06,196 Speaker 1: on Angus Fletcher, neuroscientist turned narrative theorist genius in residence 177 00:11:06,596 --> 00:11:11,156 Speaker 1: at Ohio State University. Remember, for example, back to our 178 00:11:11,196 --> 00:11:15,076 Speaker 1: three part revision of the ending of Disney's The Little Mermaid, 179 00:11:15,596 --> 00:11:19,476 Speaker 1: arguably the intellectual high watermark of the entire revision's history. 180 00:11:19,476 --> 00:11:24,836 Speaker 1: Corpus Angus provided the intellectual firepower. And remember when we 181 00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 1: did a whole series on the greatest movie scripts that 182 00:11:27,676 --> 00:11:31,196 Speaker 1: never got made? Angus had one, of course he did. 183 00:11:31,876 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 1: Angus is much much smarter than I am. More important, 184 00:11:35,676 --> 00:11:39,436 Speaker 1: Angus is not hopelessly sentimental like I am. He would 185 00:11:39,436 --> 00:11:42,196 Speaker 1: not be derailed by the gentle pressure of a three 186 00:11:42,276 --> 00:11:45,556 Speaker 1: year old stubby fingers. And when I remember that Angus 187 00:11:45,556 --> 00:11:52,796 Speaker 1: also has kids. I called him up now a small 188 00:11:52,836 --> 00:11:56,076 Speaker 1: thing before we go on. Normally, when we interview people, 189 00:11:56,436 --> 00:12:00,236 Speaker 1: we edit the tape. I interject with commentary. The whole 190 00:12:00,236 --> 00:12:04,436 Speaker 1: thing is compressed and annotated. We give you snippets, but 191 00:12:04,556 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 1: snippets do not do justice to Professor Angus Fletcher. So 192 00:12:08,356 --> 00:12:13,076 Speaker 1: you're going to get Angus unbound. I want to start you. 193 00:12:13,076 --> 00:12:15,556 Speaker 1: You too went to a Paw Patrol period with your children? 194 00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:16,196 Speaker 1: Is this correct? 195 00:12:16,876 --> 00:12:17,276 Speaker 2: I did? 196 00:12:17,396 --> 00:12:20,356 Speaker 8: Yeah, so my son likes Paw Patrol and I had 197 00:12:20,396 --> 00:12:24,436 Speaker 8: an immediate horrifying flashback when you brought the subject up, 198 00:12:24,436 --> 00:12:26,196 Speaker 8: because I went back and tried to watch a couple 199 00:12:26,316 --> 00:12:29,196 Speaker 8: episodes just to remind myself and immediately had to shut 200 00:12:29,196 --> 00:12:31,556 Speaker 8: them off, actually for for self preservation. 201 00:12:31,796 --> 00:12:34,356 Speaker 1: But there are many things to unpack here. First of all, 202 00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:37,516 Speaker 1: how long did your son still actively watch Pow Patrol? 203 00:12:38,796 --> 00:12:40,156 Speaker 2: No? No, absolutely still alive. 204 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:43,396 Speaker 8: So so we managed to we managed to save him 205 00:12:43,436 --> 00:12:43,756 Speaker 8: in time. 206 00:12:43,916 --> 00:12:47,076 Speaker 1: You're so, you're and why you were watching it with 207 00:12:47,116 --> 00:12:48,716 Speaker 1: your son? Why? 208 00:12:48,756 --> 00:12:49,196 Speaker 2: Why? 209 00:12:49,236 --> 00:12:51,316 Speaker 1: Why did this show not appeal to you? What is 210 00:12:51,316 --> 00:12:54,076 Speaker 1: it about it that's like hitting you the wrong way? 211 00:12:54,116 --> 00:12:57,036 Speaker 9: It's designed to anesthetize your brain. I mean, I feel 212 00:12:57,076 --> 00:13:01,316 Speaker 9: like I am mainlining Horse trenqu Wiser. It's a show 213 00:13:01,316 --> 00:13:05,076 Speaker 9: that is studiously designed to interrupt active thought. I mean, 214 00:13:05,076 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 9: that's like the purpose of the show, and it's it's engineered. 215 00:13:09,196 --> 00:13:10,116 Speaker 2: Brilliantly to do that. 216 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:13,276 Speaker 9: It's like it's like the kind of like diabolical apotheosis 217 00:13:13,476 --> 00:13:15,796 Speaker 9: of hundreds of years of figuring out how to how 218 00:13:15,836 --> 00:13:17,556 Speaker 9: to make audiences more and more. 219 00:13:17,436 --> 00:13:19,476 Speaker 1: Pass What do you what do you mean? Okay, break 220 00:13:19,556 --> 00:13:22,916 Speaker 1: that down, tell me exactly what you mean by that. 221 00:13:24,356 --> 00:13:28,556 Speaker 9: So it's the quintessence of this thing that we call narrative. 222 00:13:28,596 --> 00:13:29,876 Speaker 9: We have a term for this in narrative theory. 223 00:13:29,876 --> 00:13:32,276 Speaker 2: It's called vacuous agon. 224 00:13:33,116 --> 00:13:35,436 Speaker 9: Vacuous agon, and basically what that needs is like when 225 00:13:35,476 --> 00:13:39,036 Speaker 9: there's a conflict, but there's no stress, there's no anxiety 226 00:13:39,076 --> 00:13:40,876 Speaker 9: in the viewer because you know that it's going to 227 00:13:40,916 --> 00:13:43,476 Speaker 9: work out. And this is a I have to give 228 00:13:43,476 --> 00:13:45,716 Speaker 9: credit to who coined this term. It's it's a brilliant 229 00:13:45,716 --> 00:13:47,836 Speaker 9: member of my lab. His name is Mike Bevinissi. He 230 00:13:48,156 --> 00:13:50,276 Speaker 9: coined the term after watching Phoeneas and Ferr, which is 231 00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:53,396 Speaker 9: a Disney show, with his three children. And the point 232 00:13:53,396 --> 00:13:56,916 Speaker 9: of vacuous agon is that you're constantly being presented with 233 00:13:56,996 --> 00:13:59,916 Speaker 9: problems that are solved immediately. 234 00:13:59,356 --> 00:14:01,756 Speaker 2: At the moment that you are presented with the problem. 235 00:14:02,156 --> 00:14:04,276 Speaker 9: And I think it's probably obviously few having I'm sure 236 00:14:04,316 --> 00:14:07,116 Speaker 9: watched several episodes of the show. How mechanically what the 237 00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:09,716 Speaker 9: show does is it gives you a problem, and then 238 00:14:09,756 --> 00:14:12,876 Speaker 9: immediately Rider shows up like a helicopter parent, like the 239 00:14:12,956 --> 00:14:15,836 Speaker 9: ultimate helicopter parent, and tells everybody exactly what to do 240 00:14:15,876 --> 00:14:17,116 Speaker 9: so the problem will go away, and then we just 241 00:14:17,196 --> 00:14:18,716 Speaker 9: kind of watch as a problem goes away. 242 00:14:18,956 --> 00:14:24,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. So and you think that's problematic, because. 243 00:14:27,436 --> 00:14:29,436 Speaker 2: It's not that I think it's problematic now, and it's 244 00:14:29,476 --> 00:14:30,516 Speaker 2: that I know it's problematic. 245 00:14:30,676 --> 00:14:32,236 Speaker 9: So I don't know if you're aware of this, but 246 00:14:32,516 --> 00:14:34,436 Speaker 9: there for the last thirty years, it's been. 247 00:14:34,356 --> 00:14:35,796 Speaker 2: This crisis in American schools. 248 00:14:35,836 --> 00:14:38,716 Speaker 9: American kids have been getting less creative, and because they've 249 00:14:38,716 --> 00:14:40,556 Speaker 9: been getting less creative, they've been less able to solve 250 00:14:40,596 --> 00:14:42,396 Speaker 9: their own problems. And because theyre less able to solve 251 00:14:42,436 --> 00:14:44,996 Speaker 9: their own problems, they have these rises and anxiety and anger, 252 00:14:45,276 --> 00:14:46,956 Speaker 9: you know, losses of stuff, and I'm gonna see resilience 253 00:14:46,956 --> 00:14:48,996 Speaker 9: all these kinds of things and you know the major 254 00:14:49,036 --> 00:14:51,636 Speaker 9: reason for this is that we are either. 255 00:14:51,436 --> 00:14:52,796 Speaker 2: Solving their problems for them. 256 00:14:53,036 --> 00:14:55,356 Speaker 9: Yeah, that we're coming in and solving their problems for them, 257 00:14:55,956 --> 00:15:00,196 Speaker 9: or we're essentially suspending them in this state of giving 258 00:15:00,196 --> 00:15:02,796 Speaker 9: them artificial problems. So an artificial problem is like a 259 00:15:02,836 --> 00:15:04,916 Speaker 9: math problem or standardized test or something that doesn't exist 260 00:15:04,956 --> 00:15:06,516 Speaker 9: in the real world, and you know, and you learn 261 00:15:06,556 --> 00:15:08,116 Speaker 9: the formula, and which you learn the formula, you know 262 00:15:08,156 --> 00:15:10,916 Speaker 9: how to solve it. And so kids are developing this 263 00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:13,196 Speaker 9: ability to get better and better and better and better at. 264 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:14,716 Speaker 2: School, and then they just keep failing at life. 265 00:15:14,756 --> 00:15:18,716 Speaker 9: And this TV show is a paradigmatic example of that 266 00:15:18,956 --> 00:15:19,876 Speaker 9: entire process. 267 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:22,236 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean it solves all the problems before you. 268 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:25,676 Speaker 5: There's no ability you have to exercise any curiosity because 269 00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:28,556 Speaker 5: the moment a problem happens, like literally, you're told these 270 00:15:28,556 --> 00:15:30,356 Speaker 5: two dogs are going to go solve it in exactly 271 00:15:30,396 --> 00:15:33,116 Speaker 5: this way, there's no opportunity for the brain to engage 272 00:15:33,156 --> 00:15:33,356 Speaker 5: what we. 273 00:15:33,356 --> 00:15:35,916 Speaker 9: Call on counterfactual cause while thinking these processes that are 274 00:15:35,956 --> 00:15:38,916 Speaker 9: currently encounter a problem. The whole reason for imaginative literature, 275 00:15:38,916 --> 00:15:40,796 Speaker 9: the reason that things like Curious George and Winnie the 276 00:15:40,836 --> 00:15:43,716 Speaker 9: Pooh were created or to stimulate these processes in young shoulder, 277 00:15:43,796 --> 00:15:45,956 Speaker 9: because at the age of four is actually when they 278 00:15:46,036 --> 00:15:48,476 Speaker 9: develop the capacity for irony, for. 279 00:15:48,516 --> 00:15:51,036 Speaker 2: Narrative irony, and all those. 280 00:15:50,836 --> 00:15:53,396 Speaker 9: Books and reading with your children for reasons we can 281 00:15:53,396 --> 00:15:56,436 Speaker 9: discuss if you're interested, stimulates all those processes. 282 00:15:56,476 --> 00:15:59,236 Speaker 2: And when you watch this show, it nukes them. 283 00:15:59,316 --> 00:16:01,836 Speaker 9: So it's not bad in the sense that like giving 284 00:16:01,836 --> 00:16:03,076 Speaker 9: your children ice cream isn't bad. 285 00:16:03,116 --> 00:16:04,316 Speaker 2: Right, they can have ice cream. But if all you 286 00:16:04,356 --> 00:16:06,156 Speaker 2: give them is ice cream, what happens to them? Right? 287 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:08,796 Speaker 2: They become diabetic. And it's the same thing with this show. 288 00:16:08,796 --> 00:16:14,196 Speaker 1: And yeah, God, I feel bad now. You filled me 289 00:16:14,276 --> 00:16:17,436 Speaker 1: with a kind of degree of self loathing and guilt 290 00:16:17,676 --> 00:16:21,276 Speaker 1: over the damage I'm doing to my daughter's imagination, her 291 00:16:21,316 --> 00:16:25,276 Speaker 1: ability to problem solve. This is what you do. I 292 00:16:25,316 --> 00:16:28,916 Speaker 1: should point out how strange this is. A generation ago 293 00:16:28,996 --> 00:16:33,756 Speaker 1: people love children's television. The invention of children's television was 294 00:16:33,756 --> 00:16:38,636 Speaker 1: one of America's signature cultural Triumphs. Intellectuals wrote love songs 295 00:16:38,636 --> 00:16:42,076 Speaker 1: to children's television. I remember once in the late nineteen 296 00:16:42,156 --> 00:16:45,116 Speaker 1: nineties when I discovered Sesame Street for the first time. 297 00:16:45,396 --> 00:16:48,356 Speaker 1: I was so entranced that I went to the Sesame 298 00:16:48,396 --> 00:16:51,996 Speaker 1: Street studios and just hung out there for what seemed 299 00:16:52,036 --> 00:16:55,516 Speaker 1: like days. I was there during the great Slimy episode. 300 00:16:55,916 --> 00:17:00,276 Speaker 1: Maybe you remember this Slimy, the adorable Sesame Street worm 301 00:17:00,476 --> 00:17:04,316 Speaker 1: becomes an astronaut, and so the Sesame Street staff brought 302 00:17:04,316 --> 00:17:08,076 Speaker 1: in Tony Bennett, whose signature, son of course, was fly 303 00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:10,196 Speaker 1: me to the Moon to sing. 304 00:17:10,156 --> 00:17:12,236 Speaker 2: Slimy to the moon. 305 00:17:14,236 --> 00:17:18,396 Speaker 9: And when this worm arrives, you'll find. 306 00:17:19,916 --> 00:17:25,396 Speaker 7: He'll take a leap that small for him but huge 307 00:17:25,596 --> 00:17:27,076 Speaker 7: for all worm God. 308 00:17:27,956 --> 00:17:31,236 Speaker 1: I was there for that, standing this close to the 309 00:17:31,316 --> 00:17:34,276 Speaker 1: legend himself, who acted like this was the greatest moment 310 00:17:34,316 --> 00:17:37,556 Speaker 1: of his entire career. My point is, back in the day, 311 00:17:37,916 --> 00:17:41,196 Speaker 1: the leading cultural figures of our time would happily make 312 00:17:41,236 --> 00:17:45,036 Speaker 1: the pilgrimage to a random TV studio in Queen's to 313 00:17:45,076 --> 00:17:48,036 Speaker 1: make light of their own work on behalf of Toddler's Everywhere. 314 00:17:48,836 --> 00:17:54,916 Speaker 1: But now the cultural luminaries and the intellectuals have abandoned ship. 315 00:17:56,556 --> 00:18:00,516 Speaker 1: By eleven minutes into his denunciation of Bob Patrol, Angus 316 00:18:00,516 --> 00:18:06,196 Speaker 1: had mentioned Dickens, the A team, Plautus and Aristophanes. Now 317 00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:10,316 Speaker 1: he'd moved on to explaining the phenomenon of new comedy 318 00:18:11,076 --> 00:18:14,196 Speaker 1: and contrasting it with something he called old comedy. 319 00:18:17,076 --> 00:18:19,196 Speaker 9: And what happens in old comedy is you're presented with 320 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,316 Speaker 9: real problems. So an example of a real problem would 321 00:18:22,316 --> 00:18:26,916 Speaker 9: be war or the breakdown of democracy. And then the 322 00:18:26,956 --> 00:18:28,996 Speaker 9: comedy goes on and the problem gets worse, and it 323 00:18:28,996 --> 00:18:31,356 Speaker 9: gets worse, and it gets worse and it gets worse. 324 00:18:31,356 --> 00:18:34,076 Speaker 2: And then eventually the comedy falls apart. It just ends. 325 00:18:34,716 --> 00:18:37,196 Speaker 2: And basically the comedy is saying, that's a big problem. 326 00:18:37,236 --> 00:18:38,676 Speaker 2: You guys in the audience, better figure out how to 327 00:18:38,676 --> 00:18:39,036 Speaker 2: solve that. 328 00:18:39,556 --> 00:18:43,196 Speaker 9: So it forced people to think about hard things in 329 00:18:43,236 --> 00:18:45,236 Speaker 9: a public place where they get kind of oppress, up 330 00:18:45,276 --> 00:18:48,396 Speaker 9: with it and solve their own problems. Then what happened 331 00:18:48,716 --> 00:18:51,236 Speaker 9: was the emergence of new comedy, which is essentially light entertainment. 332 00:18:51,236 --> 00:18:54,516 Speaker 9: And what happens in light entertainment is a fake problem 333 00:18:54,556 --> 00:18:58,476 Speaker 9: is posed, a fake problem is posed, and then just 334 00:18:58,516 --> 00:19:00,636 Speaker 9: if you might be getting stressed about this fake problem, 335 00:19:02,116 --> 00:19:03,996 Speaker 9: the comedy answers it for you by the end, so 336 00:19:04,036 --> 00:19:07,796 Speaker 9: you can relax. So what's diabolical about paw Patrol is 337 00:19:07,836 --> 00:19:10,756 Speaker 9: it takes real problems in terms something to imaginary problems. 338 00:19:10,956 --> 00:19:14,116 Speaker 9: It's like it's like the end it's like the year 339 00:19:14,276 --> 00:19:16,956 Speaker 9: of comedy, because I mean, there are real problems that 340 00:19:16,996 --> 00:19:18,756 Speaker 9: it seems to embrace, you know, it don't seem to 341 00:19:18,796 --> 00:19:20,756 Speaker 9: get in trouble and stuff like that, you know, but 342 00:19:20,796 --> 00:19:22,596 Speaker 9: then it just reveals that they're all, you know, not 343 00:19:22,676 --> 00:19:24,116 Speaker 9: a problem and you don't have to worry about them 344 00:19:24,116 --> 00:19:25,996 Speaker 9: because you know, writer will just show up or there'll 345 00:19:25,996 --> 00:19:28,476 Speaker 9: be some like weird gizmo gadget thing that will solve 346 00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:31,196 Speaker 9: the problem for you. So, you know, just relaxed, preschooler, 347 00:19:31,956 --> 00:19:34,076 Speaker 9: don't worry about this big bag world you're entering in 348 00:19:34,116 --> 00:19:34,876 Speaker 9: because it's just fine. 349 00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:36,796 Speaker 2: Don't even use your brain. Why why were you even 350 00:19:36,796 --> 00:19:38,316 Speaker 2: giving a brain? What's the point of a brain? 351 00:19:38,556 --> 00:19:38,756 Speaker 6: Right? 352 00:19:39,116 --> 00:19:41,116 Speaker 2: You need to solve problems. Everything's already solved like a 353 00:19:41,196 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 2: perfect I. 354 00:19:41,716 --> 00:19:43,316 Speaker 1: Know, I promised you that I was going to play 355 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:46,916 Speaker 1: Angus at full length, Angus unbound. And if this was 356 00:19:47,036 --> 00:19:49,756 Speaker 1: a Joe Rogan experience, and I bring up Joe Rogan 357 00:19:49,796 --> 00:19:52,676 Speaker 1: for a reason, by the way, because revisionist history is 358 00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:55,636 Speaker 1: coming back to Joe Rogan big time in the coming weeks. 359 00:19:56,076 --> 00:19:58,876 Speaker 1: If this was a Joe Rogan experience, I'd have just 360 00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:02,076 Speaker 1: run it all efit. Who among us does not have 361 00:20:02,116 --> 00:20:04,516 Speaker 1: a spare three and a half hours to listen to 362 00:20:04,516 --> 00:20:08,956 Speaker 1: a perfect stranger speak about the weightlifting routines. My assumption 363 00:20:09,476 --> 00:20:13,956 Speaker 1: is that you, unlike the many millions of Roganites, have jobs. 364 00:20:14,476 --> 00:20:16,876 Speaker 1: So from here on out, I'm just giving you the 365 00:20:16,876 --> 00:20:20,076 Speaker 1: good parts. So what would happen if you showed an 366 00:20:20,116 --> 00:20:23,316 Speaker 1: old comedy show to a child? What happens if in 367 00:20:23,396 --> 00:20:26,676 Speaker 1: paw patrol they don't solve the problem? What does my 368 00:20:26,756 --> 00:20:27,156 Speaker 1: daughter do? 369 00:20:27,636 --> 00:20:30,716 Speaker 2: Yeah? So this is great, So your child will become concerned. 370 00:20:32,036 --> 00:20:34,156 Speaker 9: Your child will become concerned, and then your child will 371 00:20:34,196 --> 00:20:37,076 Speaker 9: probably turn to you as the authority figure in her 372 00:20:37,116 --> 00:20:39,156 Speaker 9: life and be like, I'm kind of concerned. What's going 373 00:20:39,196 --> 00:20:42,676 Speaker 9: to happen to that truck that's suspended over that cast 374 00:20:42,716 --> 00:20:45,516 Speaker 9: and or whatever other paw patrol the problem there is, right? Yeah, 375 00:20:45,556 --> 00:20:47,996 Speaker 9: And then you're gonna look very seriously at them and say, 376 00:20:48,076 --> 00:20:50,676 Speaker 9: I don't know, what do you think is going to happen? 377 00:20:50,836 --> 00:20:52,236 Speaker 9: And then they would have to pause, and then they 378 00:20:52,276 --> 00:20:54,796 Speaker 9: would think, and then they would have to imagine themselves 379 00:20:54,956 --> 00:20:55,876 Speaker 9: solving the problem. 380 00:20:57,116 --> 00:20:58,996 Speaker 2: And that's the value. 381 00:21:01,316 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 1: I'm a new parent, just over three years into the experience, 382 00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:06,996 Speaker 1: and I have all the insecurities that come with being 383 00:21:07,036 --> 00:21:10,916 Speaker 1: a rookie. I don't know what I'm doing. I put 384 00:21:10,916 --> 00:21:13,676 Speaker 1: my daughters in bed at night and pray they fall asleep. 385 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:16,076 Speaker 1: I make them oatmeal in the morning and pray they 386 00:21:16,076 --> 00:21:19,796 Speaker 1: eat it. I help build castles made of magnetiles and 387 00:21:19,876 --> 00:21:23,116 Speaker 1: pray they don't destroy them. And all the while I 388 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:27,716 Speaker 1: ask myself, who are these mysterious creatures over whom I 389 00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:34,836 Speaker 1: have recklessly been given dominion? And now Angus, who I 390 00:21:34,876 --> 00:21:38,396 Speaker 1: admire like few others, was telling me I was doing 391 00:21:38,436 --> 00:21:38,956 Speaker 1: it all wrong. 392 00:21:39,996 --> 00:21:43,196 Speaker 9: You're deleting their capacity to develop an awareness of other 393 00:21:43,276 --> 00:21:48,076 Speaker 9: answers to problems. You're removing that source of natural creativity. 394 00:21:48,396 --> 00:21:51,076 Speaker 9: You're also removing the pressure on them to try and 395 00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:54,756 Speaker 9: find that perspective to solve those other problems. And so 396 00:21:54,796 --> 00:21:57,036 Speaker 9: this entire part of their brain is just atrophying at 397 00:21:57,036 --> 00:22:00,196 Speaker 9: the exact critical moment when as human beings were supposed 398 00:22:00,196 --> 00:22:01,836 Speaker 9: to have it and it's supposed to come online. 399 00:22:01,916 --> 00:22:05,036 Speaker 1: This is devastated. This has been a devastating conversation. 400 00:22:05,396 --> 00:22:06,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure. 401 00:22:08,516 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 1: When we come back my grand unified theory of pow 402 00:22:12,556 --> 00:22:27,676 Speaker 1: patrol I said way back in the beginning that there 403 00:22:27,796 --> 00:22:31,436 Speaker 1: was an important clue in my conversation with the creators 404 00:22:31,676 --> 00:22:35,916 Speaker 1: of the Paw Patrol movies, something crucial to understanding my 405 00:22:35,996 --> 00:22:41,996 Speaker 1: stubborn affection for the Paw Patrol franchise. Something about University Avenue. 406 00:22:42,196 --> 00:22:45,876 Speaker 1: I remember that you might have wondered what University Avenue 407 00:22:45,996 --> 00:22:49,516 Speaker 1: I was referring to. Well, it's the one in Toronto. 408 00:22:50,316 --> 00:22:53,876 Speaker 1: University Avenue is one of the central boulevards that runs 409 00:22:53,916 --> 00:22:57,556 Speaker 1: through downtown Toronto. It is the Broadway of Toronto. In 410 00:22:57,596 --> 00:23:00,396 Speaker 1: the Pow Patrol movie, it appears as a little visual 411 00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:04,676 Speaker 1: clue that tells you something crucially important about writer and 412 00:23:04,796 --> 00:23:08,276 Speaker 1: his band of Mary Pops. Something I realized, as I 413 00:23:08,356 --> 00:23:12,316 Speaker 1: prepared to rect bond to Angus's attacks, that even the 414 00:23:12,396 --> 00:23:19,636 Speaker 1: mighty Angus had missed. Now but wait, now, I feel Angus, 415 00:23:19,876 --> 00:23:23,476 Speaker 1: your arguments are so compelling and overwhelming. I feel foolish 416 00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:28,036 Speaker 1: in offering my defense of poor Patrol. But I should, 417 00:23:28,116 --> 00:23:31,196 Speaker 1: I think, I feel I should do it anyway. The 418 00:23:31,276 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 1: key to understanding Pow Patrol, so this is This is 419 00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:37,596 Speaker 1: the alternate Po Patrol theory. And the key to the 420 00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:39,756 Speaker 1: alternate Po Patrol theory is understanding that it is a 421 00:23:39,796 --> 00:23:45,156 Speaker 1: Canadian show. Pow Patrol is conceived, made and distributed from 422 00:23:45,196 --> 00:23:48,196 Speaker 1: my home country of Canada. It is as Canadian as 423 00:23:48,236 --> 00:23:52,356 Speaker 1: maple syrup, as Canadian as a flock of geese streaking 424 00:23:52,396 --> 00:23:56,996 Speaker 1: across the sky. And what pow Patrol is doing is 425 00:23:57,316 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 1: enacting a fantasy of municipal competence, which is absolutely essential 426 00:24:03,396 --> 00:24:09,116 Speaker 1: to understanding what understanding Canada. That's what Canada is, right, 427 00:24:09,636 --> 00:24:13,476 Speaker 1: is a country which has which is formed. What is 428 00:24:13,516 --> 00:24:15,676 Speaker 1: the you know, the essential credo of the United States 429 00:24:16,396 --> 00:24:20,236 Speaker 1: is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, an individualist credo. 430 00:24:20,756 --> 00:24:24,636 Speaker 1: What is the parallel credo of Canada that was embedded 431 00:24:24,636 --> 00:24:28,276 Speaker 1: in the Canadian Articles of Confederation? It is peace, order 432 00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:29,276 Speaker 1: and good government? 433 00:24:30,356 --> 00:24:30,516 Speaker 8: Right. 434 00:24:30,956 --> 00:24:35,756 Speaker 1: What is popetrol? Pow Patrol is an homage and it 435 00:24:35,836 --> 00:24:38,516 Speaker 1: is it is the elaboration of the notion of peace, 436 00:24:38,596 --> 00:24:42,076 Speaker 1: order and good government. And the key thing in the 437 00:24:42,116 --> 00:24:45,236 Speaker 1: po Patrol song at the very beginning they go pop Patrol, 438 00:24:45,516 --> 00:24:50,276 Speaker 1: Pa Patrol. Whenever you're in trouble, pot Patrol, Pop Patrol 439 00:24:50,356 --> 00:24:51,756 Speaker 1: will be there on the double. 440 00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:53,236 Speaker 2: That's crucial. 441 00:24:53,916 --> 00:24:58,236 Speaker 1: It is that not only is every problem assessed, but 442 00:24:58,316 --> 00:25:02,956 Speaker 1: every problem is is addressed in a timely manner, in 443 00:25:02,996 --> 00:25:06,516 Speaker 1: an efficient, competent manner. So that what Papacho is all 444 00:25:06,516 --> 00:25:09,556 Speaker 1: about is that this is, in Canadian terms, is what 445 00:25:09,596 --> 00:25:14,316 Speaker 1: we want our state to do. Right, it is too 446 00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:17,596 Speaker 1: and what is what is pap patrol itself? It is 447 00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:21,756 Speaker 1: it's a It's an example of interagency cooperation, right, Chase 448 00:25:21,916 --> 00:25:26,116 Speaker 1: the police dog, Marshall the firefighter, Sky the pilot, Rubble 449 00:25:26,196 --> 00:25:31,956 Speaker 1: the contractor, all working together. Very Canadian notion that if only, 450 00:25:32,596 --> 00:25:37,436 Speaker 1: if only we join hands and and cooperat across disciplines, 451 00:25:38,276 --> 00:25:42,156 Speaker 1: we can more effectively address the social ills of plague us. Right, 452 00:25:42,356 --> 00:25:46,076 Speaker 1: it's just Canada at all. So what my daughter is 453 00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:49,156 Speaker 1: getting is essentially Canada. 454 00:25:49,396 --> 00:25:51,236 Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I mean I I've seen on the news 455 00:25:51,276 --> 00:25:52,516 Speaker 9: how perfect things are in Canada. 456 00:25:53,156 --> 00:25:55,276 Speaker 2: Malcolm Sino has convinced me it's a. It's a it's 457 00:25:55,316 --> 00:25:59,316 Speaker 2: a utopian land where everything works out, there's there's no 458 00:25:59,516 --> 00:26:00,276 Speaker 2: there's no problems. 459 00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:08,716 Speaker 1: Better it's a comparative judgment. H this point about the 460 00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:12,636 Speaker 1: central of public sector competence to the Canadian identity, it's 461 00:26:12,676 --> 00:26:15,676 Speaker 1: worth a bit of a digression. It concerns the nineteen 462 00:26:15,716 --> 00:26:19,596 Speaker 1: ninety one hit single from the band Crash Test Dummies. 463 00:26:20,276 --> 00:26:23,996 Speaker 1: Perhaps you remember it. It was called Superman's Song, and 464 00:26:24,076 --> 00:26:29,236 Speaker 1: it turns on a sociological comparison of Tarzan and Superman. 465 00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:34,196 Speaker 7: Tarzaan wasn't the leadies Man. 466 00:26:35,436 --> 00:26:40,556 Speaker 10: He just come along and scoop my bonder is arm 467 00:26:41,356 --> 00:26:47,516 Speaker 10: like that, quick as a kid him the junngle. 468 00:26:46,996 --> 00:26:51,956 Speaker 1: Superman, the song argues, is Tarzan's antithesis. He's not some 469 00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:53,436 Speaker 1: rapacious propheteer. 470 00:26:53,916 --> 00:27:03,636 Speaker 7: Superman of made anybody receiving the world from silom and grundy. 471 00:27:04,996 --> 00:27:08,756 Speaker 7: And sometimes I've dispilled the global elbows. 472 00:27:09,236 --> 00:27:10,476 Speaker 8: You love the man. 473 00:27:13,996 --> 00:27:16,596 Speaker 1: This is how the lead singer for the Crash Test Dummies, 474 00:27:16,636 --> 00:27:20,476 Speaker 1: Brad Roberts, explained his thinking to a college newspaper. 475 00:27:21,156 --> 00:27:21,556 Speaker 10: Quote. 476 00:27:21,636 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 1: Superman, as cast in Superman's Song is obviously a left 477 00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:30,356 Speaker 1: wing political figure. His activity in the community is intrinsic 478 00:27:30,436 --> 00:27:35,556 Speaker 1: to his being. Superman is being juxtaposed against Tarzan, who 479 00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:39,076 Speaker 1: is kind of a lazy faire capitalist type who retreats 480 00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:42,036 Speaker 1: to the forest and rejects the idea of the community. 481 00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:45,236 Speaker 1: He wants to live in a so called animal state, 482 00:27:45,596 --> 00:27:47,636 Speaker 1: and he doesn't want to be bothered with any kind 483 00:27:47,676 --> 00:27:52,116 Speaker 1: of political realities. Unquote. First of all, how great is 484 00:27:52,156 --> 00:27:56,716 Speaker 1: it that rock stars once talked like this second. On 485 00:27:56,836 --> 00:28:00,036 Speaker 1: the basis of this argument, where do you think the 486 00:28:00,076 --> 00:28:04,836 Speaker 1: crash test dummies are from? It's obvious Canada. Of course, 487 00:28:05,116 --> 00:28:07,876 Speaker 1: this is a song that could only have been written 488 00:28:08,116 --> 00:28:11,556 Speaker 1: by a Canadian. Only a Canadian would find something utterly 489 00:28:11,716 --> 00:28:15,876 Speaker 1: reprehensible in Tarzan's naked displays of strength and brute force, 490 00:28:16,676 --> 00:28:19,396 Speaker 1: and only a Canadian would look long and hard at 491 00:28:19,436 --> 00:28:22,916 Speaker 1: Superman and conclude he's one of us. 492 00:28:23,676 --> 00:28:30,916 Speaker 7: Listen, Hey, Bob, Soup had a strange job. Even though 493 00:28:31,036 --> 00:28:36,396 Speaker 7: he could of smashing any banking in the United States, 494 00:28:37,796 --> 00:28:40,876 Speaker 7: he hadn't strength, but he would. 495 00:28:40,596 --> 00:28:46,116 Speaker 1: Not any bank in the United States. Meaning Superman is 496 00:28:46,156 --> 00:28:48,796 Speaker 1: at a place below the border, where the expectation is 497 00:28:48,996 --> 00:28:51,916 Speaker 1: he will use his gifts for his own selfish ends. 498 00:28:52,556 --> 00:28:56,276 Speaker 1: The superhero who puts his community first stands for peace, 499 00:28:56,956 --> 00:28:58,356 Speaker 1: order and good government. 500 00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:06,956 Speaker 7: Sometimes Soup was stopping crimes how bad he was tempted 501 00:29:07,156 --> 00:29:16,516 Speaker 7: to just quit an time bad long Man joint Tarzi Forest. 502 00:29:15,796 --> 00:29:21,596 Speaker 1: The forest clearly referring to anything below the forty ninth parallel, but. 503 00:29:23,436 --> 00:29:25,956 Speaker 7: Stayed in the sanity. 504 00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:28,556 Speaker 10: Cap down, change. 505 00:29:28,236 --> 00:29:33,316 Speaker 7: In clothes in dirty old Fall. Boostelia's work was through 506 00:29:34,596 --> 00:29:36,516 Speaker 7: the in earth and to dom. 507 00:29:36,676 --> 00:29:38,396 Speaker 2: But go home. 508 00:29:39,036 --> 00:29:42,076 Speaker 1: He stayed in the city working out of decrepit foam 509 00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:47,076 Speaker 1: booths because he believed super strength and superpowers ought to 510 00:29:47,116 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 1: be deployed on behalf of the public good. When I 511 00:29:51,436 --> 00:29:58,156 Speaker 1: see Superman, I think he's a Paw Patrol character. Before 512 00:29:58,236 --> 00:30:00,676 Speaker 1: we got hooked on Paw Patrol, my daughter and I 513 00:30:00,756 --> 00:30:06,196 Speaker 1: watched Minie's Bowtoons, equally absurdly popular short cartoons about a 514 00:30:06,236 --> 00:30:09,076 Speaker 1: small business run by a Mini Mouse and her best 515 00:30:09,196 --> 00:30:12,756 Speaker 1: friend and maybe lover I'm unclear on that. Daisy Duck 516 00:30:13,356 --> 00:30:18,516 Speaker 1: devoted to selling bows a boutique. And yes, the theme 517 00:30:18,596 --> 00:30:28,796 Speaker 1: song is as good as you might imagine. 518 00:30:29,596 --> 00:30:30,356 Speaker 8: Coming time. 519 00:30:33,956 --> 00:30:34,836 Speaker 2: You always well. 520 00:30:39,956 --> 00:30:43,796 Speaker 1: Every episode of Bowtoons also begins with a problem, which 521 00:30:43,836 --> 00:30:48,276 Speaker 1: the episode resolves through Minie's ingenuity and persistence that. 522 00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:50,196 Speaker 4: Gives me an idea. 523 00:30:50,396 --> 00:30:55,716 Speaker 1: But who is the beneficiary of Minnie's ingenuity. Minis Mini 524 00:30:55,956 --> 00:30:59,436 Speaker 1: and her considerable business interests. There is no community in 525 00:30:59,476 --> 00:31:03,276 Speaker 1: Minnie Mouse's Bowtoons, no civic obligations. There is only the 526 00:31:03,316 --> 00:31:06,156 Speaker 1: profit that ensues to Mini and her shareholders. 527 00:31:06,356 --> 00:31:09,076 Speaker 4: There's no business, let business. 528 00:31:11,796 --> 00:31:13,876 Speaker 1: All of this made me think of the first lines 529 00:31:14,556 --> 00:31:18,276 Speaker 1: of sol Bello's novel The Adventures of Augie March may 530 00:31:18,276 --> 00:31:25,076 Speaker 1: be the most famous opening sentence in all of American literature. Quote, 531 00:31:25,356 --> 00:31:29,356 Speaker 1: I am an American Chicago born Chicago, that somber city, 532 00:31:30,076 --> 00:31:32,716 Speaker 1: and go at things as I have taught myself freestyle 533 00:31:33,276 --> 00:31:35,836 Speaker 1: and will make the record in my own way. First 534 00:31:35,876 --> 00:31:40,796 Speaker 1: to knock first admitted, sometimes an innocent knock, sometimes a 535 00:31:40,916 --> 00:31:47,076 Speaker 1: not so innocent unquote. That's Minnie Mouse in a nutshell. 536 00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:50,996 Speaker 1: Many is American Disney born Many is for many. Many 537 00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:54,236 Speaker 1: is about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But 538 00:31:54,356 --> 00:31:57,196 Speaker 1: do you know the dirty little secret about sal Bello? 539 00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:02,796 Speaker 1: He was a Canadian, and I wouldn't be surprised if 540 00:32:02,876 --> 00:32:06,436 Speaker 1: in an earlier version of Augie March, sal Bello admitted 541 00:32:06,436 --> 00:32:10,396 Speaker 1: to the truth of his birthright. I am a Canadian 542 00:32:10,796 --> 00:32:14,396 Speaker 1: Toronto born Toronto, that clean and tidy city, and we 543 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:16,516 Speaker 1: go at things as I have been taught by the 544 00:32:16,556 --> 00:32:22,476 Speaker 1: civic institutions of my municipality, through cooperation and interagency task forces. 545 00:32:22,756 --> 00:32:27,596 Speaker 1: First to respond, first to apologize, always an innocent knock. 546 00:32:30,076 --> 00:32:34,276 Speaker 1: Angus Fletcher, genius in residence, made lots of very good points, 547 00:32:34,716 --> 00:32:36,796 Speaker 1: but did he deal with the elephants in the room? 548 00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:42,956 Speaker 1: Tarzan Minnie Mouse, Saal Bella. He did not. I'm simply 549 00:32:43,156 --> 00:32:48,076 Speaker 1: saying that I'm understanding where this notion, the notion of 550 00:32:48,156 --> 00:32:52,836 Speaker 1: the new comedy is so implicit in the Canadian national narrative. 551 00:32:53,436 --> 00:32:56,396 Speaker 1: That's what it is. There are no real problems in Canada. 552 00:32:56,556 --> 00:33:00,876 Speaker 1: Canada is this oasis. We're surrounded by countries with will problems, 553 00:33:01,036 --> 00:33:04,556 Speaker 1: not Canada. We don't pick fights with people, we don't 554 00:33:04,556 --> 00:33:08,356 Speaker 1: have racism, we welcome immigrants, we have national health care. 555 00:33:08,836 --> 00:33:11,716 Speaker 1: It is the Kennedy is the embodiment of the of 556 00:33:11,756 --> 00:33:14,756 Speaker 1: the promise of the new comedy. Every problem can be 557 00:33:14,796 --> 00:33:19,276 Speaker 1: simply addressed through some interagency task force. Right, so my 558 00:33:19,356 --> 00:33:21,476 Speaker 1: daughter is just getting a She's just getting a little 559 00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:23,676 Speaker 1: bit of Canadian propaganda. That's how I would read it, 560 00:33:26,996 --> 00:33:29,556 Speaker 1: Angus said. The Paw Patrol's problem was that it was 561 00:33:29,676 --> 00:33:33,876 Speaker 1: vacuous agon. Paw Patrol's weakness was that it constantly presented 562 00:33:33,916 --> 00:33:36,796 Speaker 1: its little viewers with a problem solved at the moment 563 00:33:36,836 --> 00:33:39,796 Speaker 1: of its presentation. But when I look around me at 564 00:33:39,836 --> 00:33:43,036 Speaker 1: the world, all I can say is, I don't know. 565 00:33:43,796 --> 00:33:45,996 Speaker 1: I could use a little more vacuous agon in my 566 00:33:46,036 --> 00:33:49,476 Speaker 1: life right now. A world where there is a puppy 567 00:33:49,556 --> 00:33:53,476 Speaker 1: optimized for every kind of peril, where help arrives at 568 00:33:53,476 --> 00:33:56,356 Speaker 1: the very moment it is summoned, where the hero's work 569 00:33:56,556 --> 00:33:59,836 Speaker 1: not to benefit themselves but the community in which they live. 570 00:34:00,836 --> 00:34:03,836 Speaker 1: Where the definition of a superman is someone who turns 571 00:34:03,876 --> 00:34:07,836 Speaker 1: down the opportunity to rob every bank and instead toils 572 00:34:08,076 --> 00:34:12,996 Speaker 1: on behalf of his countrymen as a fantasy, an aspiration 573 00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:16,676 Speaker 1: to plant in my daughter's head here and now that 574 00:34:16,756 --> 00:34:23,756 Speaker 1: doesn't sound too bad, sapajo, We are on the double. 575 00:34:24,356 --> 00:34:30,236 Speaker 4: Wherever this is album Don and venturday rather is the 576 00:34:30,316 --> 00:34:35,396 Speaker 4: female possible Go and see today Marshall Wobble, James Lucky 577 00:34:35,636 --> 00:34:39,436 Speaker 4: do It Guy on the Way Long a Popular. 578 00:34:45,636 --> 00:34:48,996 Speaker 1: Provision's History is produced by Nina Bird Lawrence, Lucy Sullivan, 579 00:34:49,236 --> 00:34:53,556 Speaker 1: and Ben Addaph Haffrey. Our editor is Karen Chakerji. Fact 580 00:34:53,636 --> 00:34:57,836 Speaker 1: checking by Sam Russick, Engineering by Nina Bird Lawrence, Mixing 581 00:34:57,876 --> 00:35:01,276 Speaker 1: and mastering by Echo Mountain. Production support from lup Leman. 582 00:35:02,116 --> 00:35:06,196 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. Special thanks Sarah Nix 583 00:35:06,316 --> 00:35:12,636 Speaker 1: and l Hefe Greta Coom. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. My daughter 584 00:35:12,876 --> 00:35:19,996 Speaker 1: made this whole episode possible. Get add free episodes of 585 00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:23,636 Speaker 1: Revision's history by subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Sign up on 586 00:35:23,716 --> 00:35:27,716 Speaker 1: the show page on Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm, 587 00:35:27,796 --> 00:35:32,516 Speaker 1: slash Plus. Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad free episodes, 588 00:35:32,916 --> 00:35:38,116 Speaker 1: full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content for all pushkin 589 00:35:38,236 --> 00:35:38,636 Speaker 1: shows