1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Brainstuff, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey Brainstuff, Lauren Vogelbaum. Here. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: If you're a person who is not a hardcore political junkie, 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: you may find yourself bewildered by how the three main 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: parts of the US government continually seem to be butting 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: heads instead of working together on solutions to the nation's problems. 6 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: But the government was structured in three parts for reasons. 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: The three branches are the executive branch, which includes the president, 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: their cabinet, and the agencies that they control. The legislative branch, 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: consisting of the two houses of Congress, which are the 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: House of Representatives and the Senate, and the judicial branch, 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: which includes the Supreme Court and all of the nation's 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: federal and state courts. In the abstract, here's how the 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: system sort of works. The President might press Congress to 14 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: pass legislation non sum issue that he made a campaign 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: promise to when act. After lots of arguing and finagling, 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: the legislators pass a bill, which sometimes turns out to 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: be very different from what the president asked for. If 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: he doesn't veto the bill, he may issue a signing 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: statement that spells out how the federal agencies that he 20 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: controls are going to enforce the law in a different 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: way than Congress intended. Then other executive branch employees draw 22 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: up regulations for how to enforce the law, and it 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: takes effect. Congressional committees may hold hearings to scrutinize what 24 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: the executive branch is doing, and to top it all off, 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court might step in and smack down 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: both the President and Congress by ruling that some part 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: of the law is unconstitutional, forcing them to essentially start over. 28 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: As wild as it may seem, that's how the nation's 29 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: founders actually intended the system to work, because they didn't 30 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: want any one part of the government to have too 31 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: much power. To that end, they filled the US Constitution 32 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: with checks and balances that each branch could impose upon 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: the others. The idea was that those three branches eventually 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: would hammer out compromises that everyone could live with. Of course, 35 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: the idea of having three branches of a government check 36 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: each other isn't an American invention. The founders, including James Madison, 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: the future president who was the lead author of the 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: US Constitution, were influenced by ideas all the way from antiquity, 39 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: like Aristotle's politics all the way through John Locke, the 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: late seventeenth century British philosopher, But the most prominent influence 41 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: may have been French philosopher Baron de Montenescu, author of 42 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: the seventeen forty eight treatise The Spirit of the Laws, 43 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: who described what should distinguish a self governing republic from 44 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: monarchies and despotic countries. The republican government, he believed, needed 45 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: to have and independent executive, legislative, and judicial branches in 46 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: order to prevent one another from abusing their various powers. 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: But the system devised by the founders, which is described 48 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: in Articles one, two, and three of the US Constitution, 49 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: wasn't quite as cotton dried as Montenescue's. Instead, they allowed 50 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: some overlap for the article. This episode is based on 51 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: How Stuffworks. Spoke via email back in twenty twenty with 52 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: Nicholas Mosvik, who at the time was a senior fellow 53 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: at the National Constitution Center, a museum and civil education 54 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: organization in Philadelphia. He said the easiest examples are in 55 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: the Senate and Article two. The Senate clearly holds executive 56 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: functions as they perform a role in advice and consent 57 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: for treaties, the appointment of judges and executive officers. The 58 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: president holds a veto power, which gives an a role 59 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: in legislation and the power to give advice to Congress, 60 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: but typically in the form of a state of the 61 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: Union and recommendations on legislation. To make things more complicated, 62 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: some of the president's powers aren't precisely spelled out in 63 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: the Constitution. For example, both executive orders and signing statements 64 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: are more modern inventions derived from implied language in the Constitution. 65 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: The concept of how the three branches work together or 66 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: against each other has indeed evolved over the centuries as 67 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: new circumstances have presented new situations. For example, during the 68 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, all three branches of government were involved in 69 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: creating and delineating the boundaries of a number of administrative 70 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: bodies surrounding industrialization, the First World War, the Great Depression, 71 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: and the New Deal. There's a concept called the non 72 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: delegation doctrine that states that a branch of the government 73 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: can't delegate its powers to another group. But during that 74 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: time in the nineteen thirties, the government created a number 75 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: of national agencies, like the Food and Drug Administration and 76 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: the Securities and Exchange Commission to help monitor and regulate 77 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: the developing realities of our society. Amosfik said the Supreme 78 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: Court was heavily involved in the nineteen thirties in determining 79 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: the boundaries of what we call delegation, the granting of 80 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: one branch's powers to an independent body or as part 81 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: of the executive branch. Some delegations were initially struck down 82 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: under the non delegation doctrine. Scholars debate whether or not 83 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: the non delegation doctrine flows from the understanding of the founders, 84 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: but the idea is simply that Congress cannot delegate its 85 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: core power from the vesting clause to make all laws 86 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: to another body, any more than it can grant non 87 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: Article three courts, Article three powers or jurisdiction. This, too, 88 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: is where recent questions about removal of directors of administrative 89 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: agencies by the President comes from. It too, is a 90 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: separation of powers question, but one that flows from modern 91 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: innovations that the founders could not entirely envision. However, the 92 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: checks and balances baked into the three branch system have 93 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: prevented abuses of power in modern situations. Houstuff Works also 94 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: spoke via email with Bruce Peabody, a professor of government 95 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: in politics at Fairleigh Dickinson University. He said one of 96 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: the classic examples is the push and pull associated with 97 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: the congressional investigation into the Nixon campaign's trespass and bugging 98 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: of the Watergate building and the Democratic National Committee's headquarters. 99 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: Congress rightfully investigated the president pushed back, claiming that the 100 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: White House recordings which implicated the president were covered under 101 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: the legal protection of executive privilege, and the Supreme Court 102 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: helped navigate the dispute, ultimately ruling that the president did 103 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: have the unwritten constitutional power of the executive privilege, but 104 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: noting that it was not an unlimited power, and setting 105 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: out some of the rules for its use. In the 106 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: process of this dramatic example of checks and balances, each 107 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: branch arguably served its own political and institutional interests as 108 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: well as the nations, but the three branch system isn't 109 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: some machine that can just run on autopilot. In order 110 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: for the democracy to work, the people in the three 111 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: branches need to have personal qualities that go beyond the 112 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: architecture of the system. In recent years, we've seen the 113 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: system become less effective in working out conflicts and taking 114 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: effective action. The increasingly acrimonious stalemate over the nation's immigration 115 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: policy is a prime example. Peabody said, I would probably 116 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: attribute our logjam and chronic inaction most directly to hyperactive partisanship. 117 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: But yes, this development is tied up with a decline 118 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: in our belief in Republican virtue, a somewhat old fashioned 119 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: idea that our leaders should be expected to act for 120 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: the public good a not just personal interest, and that 121 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: they should achieve honor while serving in government. Political science 122 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: scholars have identified basic norms that are necessary for enabling 123 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: our government to function. One of those key principles, Peabody explains, 124 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: is mutual toleration. The idea of accepting your political opponents 125 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: is legitimate even if you've eminently disagree with them. The 126 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: keyword here is mutual, as all parties must act in 127 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: good faith in order for the system to work. Another 128 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: important ingredient is forbearance, which basically means that you self 129 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: impose limits on how far you'll go in using your 130 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: powers of government to advance your interests and those of 131 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: the political party to which you belong. Even outside of 132 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: our current circumstances, America's three branch system is highly susceptible 133 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: to developing imbalances, in part because the founders chose to 134 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: create a strong chief executive in the president. That leader 135 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: has brought authority and can't easily be removed from power 136 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,359 Speaker 1: before their four years are up. In the UK, by contrast, 137 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: political conflict can lead to Parliament calling an early election 138 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: that can lead to the Prime Minister being kicked out 139 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: of power. To exacerbate this problem, over the years, we've 140 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: seen a gradual expansion of presidential power. Peabody said that 141 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: the US government has become increasingly president centric for a 142 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: variety of reasons, from changes in our media environment and 143 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: political campaigns that focus on candidates rather than ideas, to 144 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: the growth of what sometimes called the administrative state, that is, 145 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: the vast and permanent bureaucracy of executive branch agencies. Peaboddy 146 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: said this, combined with both parties post FDR success in 147 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: placing their candidates in the White House and the close 148 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: competitiveness of many presidential races, have made both Democrats and 149 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: Republicans complicit an increasing executive power. Both the Trump and 150 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: Obama administrations illustrate that we look to our chief executive 151 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: to solve problems and wheeled authority when Congress isn't able 152 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: to cooperate, lead, or assert itself. Taking immigration as an example, 153 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: after years of infighting in Congress, a President Obama in 154 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen decided to issue an executive order deferring the 155 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: deportation of so called dreamers, meaning children who entered the 156 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: US illegally with their parents and grew up here. The 157 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: program is called the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival or DACA. 158 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: The constitutionality of Obama's executive order was challenged, but ultimately 159 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: upheld in a narrow five to four decision by the 160 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: US Supreme Court in June of twenty twenty. In the meanwhile, 161 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: Obama tried to expand DAKA, but then the Trump administration 162 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: canceled the expansion and tried to dismantle DACA altogether. Then 163 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: President Biden administered another executive order reinstating it. That order 164 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: has also been challenged and is now making its way 165 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: back up through the courts. But even so, the three 166 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: branch system has an amazing amount of resilience. The Constitution 167 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: still enables Congress and the courts to push back against 168 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: presidential power and vice versa. Congress has a lot of 169 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: what's called power of the purse, a meaning they can 170 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: direct or redirect policy through funding and when. In twenty 171 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: twenty four, the Supreme Court ruled the presidents have immunity 172 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: from crimes they commit during official actions. The Biden administration 173 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: called for a constitutional amendment preventing that immunity and suggested 174 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: term limits for Supreme Court justices. The system is certainly 175 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: strained in these our hyperpartisan times, but it seems to 176 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: still be plodding along. We hear it. Brainstuff encourage you 177 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: to do your part. Educate yourself on local issues and elections, 178 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: and vote in those between term times. Local and state 179 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: appointments can have a huge impact on our lives and 180 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: on policies going all the way up to national issues. 181 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: Today's episode is based on the article what are the 182 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: three branches of US Government and how do they work together? 183 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: On how Stuffworks dot Com? Written by Patrick J. Kaiger. 184 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: Brainstuff is production of iHeartRadio in partnership with how Stuffworks 185 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: dot Com and is produced by Tyler Klang. Four more 186 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 187 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.