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Speaker 1: Woke no trillions.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernas.

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Speaker 1: Eric, we have a guest who we've been trying to

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Speaker 1: get on the podcast for a while, and she kept

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Speaker 1: getting promoted and pushing us off. But finally we have

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Speaker 1: her today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we got her before she's running the

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Speaker 2: whole company, which I'm sure will happen one day. But

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Speaker 2: this person has come on ETFIQ a few times and

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Speaker 2: I bump into her here and there. I saw her

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Speaker 2: once at Vanguard. I go to Vanguard like every like

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Speaker 2: six months or so for something, and I saw it

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Speaker 2: the women in ETF's anniversary event, and just really always

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Speaker 2: fun to talk to her. She's I don't know, I

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Speaker 2: just find that she sees Vanguard in a unique way.

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Speaker 1: Yet she works there and has worked there for a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and has worked there for a while, And so

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Speaker 2: Vanguard is a little bit of a mystery to a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. I mean, we see the flows, Joel,

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Speaker 2: this year, they're gonna already, you know, they've taken in

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Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty six billion into their ETFs. That's

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Speaker 2: more than a billion a day. Only black Rock is close.

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Speaker 2: And then the two of them are three times more

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Speaker 2: than any other issuer. I mean, it's just ridiculous. The

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Speaker 2: fish are jumping in the boat there, and so we

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Speaker 2: see the numbers, we see the flows, but they're not

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Speaker 2: out and about that much. And so to actually talk

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Speaker 2: to somebody there about what's kind of going on inside

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Speaker 2: and how it feels to be like looking at all

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Speaker 2: this from the inside rather than the outside like us,

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Speaker 2: I thought that would be fun.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Jenelle Jackson, who's the head of Bank

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Speaker 1: and Institutional Financial Advisor Services. That's a big title. She

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Speaker 1: was previously global ahead of ETF Capital Markets. So this

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Speaker 1: is a VIP for sure, this time on trillions inside

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Speaker 1: Vanguard with Janell Jackson. Jenelle, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. That was quite a build

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Speaker 3: up there, guys.

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Speaker 1: No pressure, no pressure, no pressure. Oh we're going to

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Speaker 1: put that on the shelf. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Let's just talk about you and your journey through this

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Speaker 1: little industry and how you ended up being an ETF

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Speaker 1: rain maker.

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Speaker 4: All right now, I feel like I might be able

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Speaker 4: to live up to the pressure because I feel like

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Speaker 4: this is a pretty fun story and I hope everyone

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Speaker 4: else not it does as well. Otherwise it's a podcast, right,

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Speaker 4: so you can just speed right through it. But I've

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Speaker 4: been in the industry for a couple of decades. I

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Speaker 4: know it doesn't look that way, or at least I

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Speaker 4: hope it doesn't look that way. But I started my

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Speaker 4: career working for a bank doing manager research, so I

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Speaker 4: was on the other side of the table from where

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Speaker 4: my clients are now. I'm now in a sales role

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Speaker 4: where my clients are those institutions, and my journey has

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Speaker 4: been pretty organic from starting in that manager research type

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Speaker 4: of seat. So back then, I was looking at what

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Speaker 4: other portfolio managers were doing to run products, determining how

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Speaker 4: they would best suit our investors, and whether or not

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Speaker 4: we would approve those products for our platform so that

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Speaker 4: clients would have access to them. I went to business school.

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Speaker 4: I always wanted to be a portfolio manager. I joined Vanguard.

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Speaker 4: They've got this really great program for folks who are

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Speaker 4: straight out of business school called the NBA Leadership Development Program.

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Speaker 4: So I went through three rotations pretty rapidly over an

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Speaker 4: eighteen month period. So that's three of my Vanguard jobs

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Speaker 4: that I've had in the past twelve years. One was

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Speaker 4: again on the due diligent side of things, but this

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Speaker 4: time seeing that through the Vanguard lens. The other was

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Speaker 4: working with our institutional clients and then one back in research.

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Speaker 4: So I launched into our institutional advice group after that.

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Speaker 4: So it's bringing together that research background, getting closer to

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Speaker 4: clients and Eric will love this. But I was in

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Speaker 4: that role for about five months when a post went

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Speaker 4: up internally for a chief of staff to the Chief

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Speaker 4: Investment Officer, and so I applied for that role. At

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Speaker 4: the time, our CIO was Tim Buckley, who's our former CEO.

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Speaker 4: So I got to work for Tim as his chief

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Speaker 4: of staff for three years, which is pretty long for

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Speaker 4: a chief of staff. It's usually like an eighteen to

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Speaker 4: twenty four month thing. And I say it's because Tim

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Speaker 4: enjoyed working with me so much, and he says it's

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Speaker 4: because I needed that much development. So the truth is

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Speaker 4: probably somewhere in the middle. Subsequent to that role, I

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Speaker 4: went to our Australia office to run funds. So my

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Speaker 4: whole career I had done research on running funds, talking

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Speaker 4: to clients about funds, and then I got my own

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Speaker 4: chance to touch the money. So I was in our

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Speaker 4: quantitative equity group running factor multi asset and alpha products,

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Speaker 4: at which point I came back to the US after

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Speaker 4: a couple of years running our ETF Capital Markets team.

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Speaker 3: That's when I first met Eric.

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Speaker 4: A couple years in that role, and then I moved

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Speaker 4: to lead our global ETF Capital Markets team, which includes

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Speaker 4: our broker relationships and our index relationships, and then transitioned

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Speaker 4: into the role that I am in today a few

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Speaker 4: months ago. So it's kind of been like two years,

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Speaker 4: two years, two years, two years. But I think it's

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Speaker 4: just been a really organic process in how we develop

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Speaker 4: people at Vanguard.

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Speaker 1: So let me get this straight. You were in Malvern

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Speaker 1: and they sent you to Australia and then you came

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Speaker 1: back to Malvern.

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Speaker 3: Malvern, Melvin to Malvern.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you couldn't have You could have been doing this

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Speaker 1: in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'll go back some day.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Vanger is pretty big, it's in the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying that seems like a big dream

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Speaker 1: job and a dream location. So so talk to us

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Speaker 1: about Malvern. What's it what's it feel like there? Eric

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Speaker 1: and I have been, but what's it feel like for

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Speaker 1: for somebody who's been with the company for so long?

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Speaker 4: Man Malvern feels like the core of our culture. You know,

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Speaker 4: we talk about our mission and we talk about putting

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Speaker 4: clients first, and I think every organization says, hey, what

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Speaker 4: sets us apart is our people and our mission. But

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Speaker 4: when you get here, you really feel it. It almost

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Speaker 4: feels like a college campus to me, and we all

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Speaker 4: go to the same school and we're all, you know,

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Speaker 4: cheering for the same team. And when you get to campus,

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Speaker 4: you just feel that. And the funny thing is when

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Speaker 4: you go to our offices anywhere they are in the world,

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Speaker 4: it feels the exact same way. People are here to

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Speaker 4: help each other, we're here to help our clients. It

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Speaker 4: attracts a certain type of person to work here because

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Speaker 4: of the mission. So I really think it's a happy place.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of people here working really hard, but

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I think we're all

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Speaker 4: very focused on helping investors reach their goal. So how

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Speaker 4: does somebody get to retirement and feel comfortable. How do

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Speaker 4: people think about their goals and saving for their children's education?

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Speaker 4: You know, those are the things that make me skip

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Speaker 4: out to my car at the end of the day

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Speaker 4: feeling like I'm a part of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, you know, Malvern is right next

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Speaker 2: door to Valley Forge, which was the original office. You know,

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Speaker 2: Bogel loved that. I think he even kept Valley Forge

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Speaker 2: as a po box for a while so they can

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Speaker 2: say they're in Valley Forge because of that's where the

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Speaker 2: US Revolutionary Army was on, like really in their last legs,

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Speaker 2: like they were probably about to just rough winter. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that's where they kind of rose up in Bogel.

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Speaker 2: He loved that, man, he was so into that. But

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Speaker 2: I also think, like you're walking around this campus. I've

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Speaker 2: been there. It is like a campus. There's people walking around. Now,

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Speaker 2: the fish jump in the boat. There's flows coming in

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Speaker 2: every day. Is I mean, I guess is that does

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Speaker 2: the mood just is it just a great mood because

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Speaker 2: there's always inflows.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I it does seem like it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: happy like you.

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Speaker 2: Never see off flows, Joel. They have never seen. They

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Speaker 2: don't even know what it's like. In two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 2: they took in money every month.

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Speaker 4: The thing of here is, you know, it's it's a

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Speaker 4: very humble culture. We think about it in the way

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Speaker 4: that like, hey, this isn't our money. We're stewards of

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Speaker 4: this capital for others, we're owned by our shareholders, so

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Speaker 4: we're coming in. We're working hard every day to make

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Speaker 4: sure that we're doing the right things for clients. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: I hope everybody is happy, But we definitely don't take

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Speaker 4: that success for granted. We're always being thoughtful about the future,

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Speaker 4: about opportunities for growth, and about the best ways that we.

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Speaker 3: Can serve our clients.

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Speaker 4: But if I could take a second to go back

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Speaker 4: to like how I think about my career, because I

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Speaker 4: know some people are probably like, WHOA, she's just skipping

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Speaker 4: around the place. But I think about this way of

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Speaker 4: developing expertise akin to like the hospitality industry. So when

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Speaker 4: I describe it to people, it's like, hey, I started

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Speaker 4: my career doing research, which is akin to thinking through recipes,

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Speaker 4: like working in a restaurant. So I'm helping somebody come

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Speaker 4: up with the menu. Then you know, as a portfolio manager,

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Speaker 4: I move into the kitchen and now I'm starting to

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Speaker 4: cook up the things.

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Speaker 3: Now moving into sales.

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Speaker 4: All right, I'm like the may or d at the

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Speaker 4: front of the house, and my team is bringing out

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Speaker 4: the meals to clients, our patrons and hoping that they're

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Speaker 4: happy with that we're offering it to them at a

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Speaker 4: low cost. But the tricky thing now is that, you know,

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Speaker 4: we sit on a street of restaurants and a lot

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Speaker 4: of other restaurants are cooking up the same things we are,

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Speaker 4: and some of those restaurants, Eric, are putting hot sauce

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Speaker 4: on their meals. And so how do we keep clients

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Speaker 4: coming back to us by making sure we have what

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Speaker 4: they want that fits into, you know, a way that

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Speaker 4: we think about the ingredients that we're experts and delivering.

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Speaker 4: And so I just view my career as it's very

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Speaker 4: organic and I feel like all of those opportunities that

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Speaker 4: I've had to touch and lead different teams have helped

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Speaker 4: me be successful over time and in the role that

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Speaker 4: I'm in today.

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Speaker 1: We do talk about hot sauce a lot. And tip

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Speaker 1: to Eric, what is the spiciest offering in Vanguard's portfolio?

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Speaker 4: Do you think, hmmm, spiciest offering in our portfolio? So

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Speaker 4: I'm probably going I feel like this is the leading question.

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Speaker 1: No, it's just a question, just a question.

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Speaker 3: The things that we.

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Speaker 4: Think of are spicy, Like we still serve up with

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Speaker 4: a glass of milk. So if you think about something

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Speaker 4: like high old bonds, you know, and actively managed high

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Speaker 4: old bond fund.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna have a quality.

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Speaker 4: Tilt on a product like that, so it's not gonna

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Speaker 4: be the junkiest of the junk, but I'll still get

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Speaker 4: you the exposure that you want in a safer way.

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Speaker 4: So that's your hot sauce with a cup of milk.

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Speaker 2: I have a story about this real quick. So I

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Speaker 2: wrote a note once. When you work at the quantitative group,

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Speaker 2: you guys put out these factorytfs about like eight nine

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Speaker 2: years ago, and they equal weighted, which jacks up the vall.

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Speaker 2: And so this was the most volatile thing Vanguard ever

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Speaker 2: put out. It was actively managed volatile factor stuff. At

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Speaker 2: the time, everybody was putting stuff like this out. And

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Speaker 2: I wrote a note that said, Vanguard serves up the

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Speaker 2: hot sauce, but hold the bogel something like that. He

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Speaker 2: used that in one of his books. He goes, Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: knew how I felt about it. And so even something

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Speaker 2: like that, it was like an equal weighted quality atf

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Speaker 2: You know, there's the DNA of like s and P

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Speaker 2: five hundred beta total market and then Vanguard. I feel

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Speaker 2: like this is just my opinion. I'd like to get

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Speaker 2: your take on it. You do kind of push the

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Speaker 2: edges a little, you know, there's the Boglian DNA. Then

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Speaker 2: there are places private equity China. There are definitely places

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Speaker 2: that I think Vanguard goes that pushed the envelope a bit,

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Speaker 2: but not anywhere near the way other issuers are pushing

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Speaker 2: the envelope into the more hot sauce areas. Do you

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Speaker 2: notice that, like, is there a constant push against the

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Speaker 2: edges to see how far you guys can go?

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Speaker 4: You know, I would say that what our product lineup

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Speaker 4: has evolved to be over time has just been aligned.

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Speaker 3: To the evolution of markets.

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Speaker 4: So we've had the same approach to product philosophy for

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Speaker 4: our entire history, and we really focus on four things

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Speaker 4: when it comes to product development. And I get questions

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Speaker 4: all the time, like when is Vanguard going to launch

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Speaker 4: an XYZ fund? And you know, I always take people

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Speaker 4: back to our product philosophy around how we develop products.

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Speaker 3: So is there enduring investment merit?

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Speaker 4: And this is usually the one where people get hung

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Speaker 4: up the most, like is this something that's been rooted

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Speaker 4: in academics that it makes sense for a client's portfolio?

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Speaker 4: You know, does it fill a long term need for

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Speaker 4: a target client? Like that's number two, So enduring investment merit,

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Speaker 4: long term investment need, So not any kind of tactical,

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Speaker 4: trendy cool things that are happening right now, but things

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Speaker 4: that will be enduring over time. You know, can we

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Speaker 4: deliver this solution at a competitive advantage? Sometimes we're the

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Speaker 4: best at things and that's where we like to produce

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Speaker 4: products and where we can't do it or where we

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Speaker 4: feel like it's a stretch for us from you know,

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Speaker 4: how we think about portfolio management. We're not going to

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Speaker 4: go there. And is it feasible to launch the product?

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Speaker 4: So this is the boring stuff like regulatory operational hiccups,

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Speaker 4: But it really always goes back to that first line.

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Speaker 4: The first two really is there enduring investment merit around this?

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Speaker 4: Has the research been done? Doesn't make sense? And number two,

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Speaker 4: is it going to be something that is a solution

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Speaker 4: that's going to have long term investment merit.

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Speaker 3: That's how we think about solutions for our client base.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's resulted in us, like you know, keeping a

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Speaker 4: rake in the closet and the cash is just coming

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Speaker 4: in and we rake it up.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of how it's been, and we like that.

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Speaker 2: When we bumped into each other in the one of

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Speaker 2: the ship offices, I don't know name a ship type.

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Speaker 2: It was in one of those what office does you

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Speaker 2: work in capital markets? What was the name of the building?

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Speaker 3: Victory?

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Speaker 2: Victory. Yeah, so all the buildings are new after ships.

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Speaker 2: That's another thing Bogel named is the whole company is

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Speaker 2: named after a British worship that took down Napoleon. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: if we look at this stuff, you sort of teased

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Speaker 2: a little bit about this sort of trendy one thing

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Speaker 2: that I've noticed as I've sort of become somewhat fluent

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Speaker 2: in bitcoin. I spent the last year on Planet Bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm pretty knowledgeable now when we look at

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Speaker 2: the growth of bitcoin, these ETFs have blown up, like

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Speaker 2: ibid is now forty billion dollars. It's the top one

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Speaker 2: percent of all ETFs. People will reply, it's like not

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Speaker 2: enough for them to have like all this money, all

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Speaker 2: time highs they get. They're still bothered by you. They're like, Vanguard,

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Speaker 2: what's their problem? Why won't they bend the knee? There's

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Speaker 2: a meme going around that has your ship logo, And

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Speaker 2: then instead of Vanguard. It says, MGM, I not gonna

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Speaker 2: make it, and the ship's like and the ship's breaking

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Speaker 2: in half. Anyway, that's that's just do you think about

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Speaker 2: this at all?

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Speaker 3: Do you care?

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Speaker 2: Is there any temptational I know Salim has basically kind

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Speaker 2: of shot down that's the new CEO.

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Speaker 1: But that's Slim Ramsey who was on a trillion yeah,

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Speaker 1: when he was at Blackrock before he made the transition.

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Speaker 2: But what does all that look like from afar? Or

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Speaker 2: are you just insulated from all that noise?

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Speaker 4: You know what, It's a funny meme. I appreciate the

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Speaker 4: feedback around products, so you know, hopefully there aren't too

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Speaker 4: many more people jumping into my LinkedIn chats because of this,

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Speaker 4: Like that does happen a lot. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 4: we've talked about why we haven't entered that product space.

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Speaker 4: But what I do think has been really cool is

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Speaker 4: like you still see the vanguard effect there right, Like

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Speaker 4: you kind of see these competitors that have fallen all

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Speaker 4: over themselves to have the lowest cost product. And I

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Speaker 4: think that even where we don't have a product, you

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Speaker 4: can feel the vanguard influence. And so for clients who

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Speaker 4: do want to, you know, leverage those types of products.

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Speaker 3: They're there.

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Speaker 4: I think there's plenty of competition. It looks like it's

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Speaker 4: been a healthy year for those products. So yeah, I

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Speaker 4: feel like we've done our job, even though we might

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Speaker 4: not be directly, we've influenced what that looks like.

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Speaker 2: So basically, crypto Twitter, you're welcome. I like that. That's

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Speaker 2: pretty good way to pivot from that to that.

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Speaker 3: I did not say that.

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Speaker 1: I think she was pretty clear about it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I saw I just sometimes I said LinkedIn you're welcome.

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Speaker 1: So you did hit on something there though. Seleem Ramji

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Speaker 1: new CEO, and since you have interacted with previous CEOs,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious previous CEOs at Van Gerd, I'm curious, how

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Speaker 1: do you think he's going to make his mark and

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Speaker 1: what's what's what's the plan?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think everybody's really excited that Seleema is here.

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Speaker 4: He brings a host of knowledge to this organization. I

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Speaker 4: will say, oh, I hope he doesn't fire me for this.

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Speaker 4: But I think when he got here, we were all like,

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Speaker 4: oh my goodness, there's a black, red guy here and

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Speaker 4: you know he's running the ship.

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Speaker 3: But he's very thoughtful he's very warm.

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Speaker 4: I really like that, Like as a person, he's very warm.

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Speaker 4: I think he has kind of looked at what's going

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Speaker 4: on in the house and is thinking about his long

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Speaker 4: term strategy. And what I'm most interested in is, you know,

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Speaker 4: are we going to be more aggressive when it comes

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Speaker 4: to product launches. You know, we've been pretty conservative, maybe

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Speaker 4: a product or two here or there. I think there's

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Speaker 4: some opportunities for us to think about, you know, what

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Speaker 4: we can do, especially as it relates to active and

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Speaker 4: ETFs and fixed income and ETFs, and I think those

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Speaker 4: are areas of expertise that he brings to the top

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Speaker 4: of the house. And so for me, I'm pretty excited

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Speaker 4: about how he's thinking about the organization. We'll see what

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Speaker 4: other impacts that he has beyond product, but I think

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Speaker 4: that's the most exciting thing for me, especially as I'm

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Speaker 4: getting closer to clients and they ask us questions like, Hey,

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Speaker 4: why don't you have again X y Z product? And

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Speaker 4: you know, as long as again it's lined to our

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Speaker 4: investment philosophy, maybe we'll see some more products to come,

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Speaker 4: as we have with you know, our recent active fixed

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Speaker 4: income ETF launches and some of the work that we're

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Speaker 4: doing with active muni eat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So what we've noticed is that a lot of the

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Speaker 2: recent products have been active actives having a bit of

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Speaker 2: a renaissance in ETFs. It's not totally what it looks like.

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Speaker 2: I think if you remove the buffers and some of

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Speaker 2: the kind of we'll call it alternative active. You know,

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Speaker 2: bond pickers, thought pickers definitely doing better than they used to.

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Speaker 2: And I think it makes sense moving into active. I

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Speaker 2: guess when when you're thinking about these products and active,

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Speaker 2: Vanguard isn't really known for that. I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're known for passive. And do you have to like

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Speaker 2: educate them that you have active too, or do they

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Speaker 2: they mostly know because they remember the mutual funds, because

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Speaker 2: it does seem like, you know, Vanguard kind of basically

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Speaker 2: got everybody to believe that active didn't add a lot

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Speaker 2: of value. I mean, that was what again, I'll go

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Speaker 2: back to Bogel. He spent many years doing that. Yet

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Speaker 2: at the same time, your active funds grew to I

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Speaker 2: don't know, one to two trillion dollars. I think you

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Speaker 2: have an assets and active. How's that tension between you know,

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Speaker 2: you're going to get these active ETFs out there, there's

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Speaker 2: definitely a market for it, but you're also known for passive,

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Speaker 2: so you're trying to sell like B and D, but

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Speaker 2: also the ETFs trying to beat B and D.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think this is like a myth

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Speaker 4: that I'm constantly dispelling. So yeah, we're we're an index

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Speaker 4: powerhouse and an indexing pioneer. But you know, when you

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Speaker 4: look back at the history of Vanguard and next year

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Speaker 4: we'll be celebrating fifty years when the organization first started,

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Speaker 4: all we offered was actively managed funds, so we're really

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Speaker 4: rooted in active, and I think we've also had to

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Speaker 4: dispel this myth around active versus passive, Like there's always

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Speaker 4: been a role for both in a portfolio, but low

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Speaker 4: cost has always been the Vanguard story. So even if

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Speaker 4: you are going to active, be thoughtful about, you know,

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Speaker 4: knowing what you own. You'll hear this a lot when

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Speaker 4: you come to Vanguard next Eric that we're true to label,

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Speaker 4: Like that's the new thing we say everywhere we go.

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Speaker 3: Trutally, they just look at what the title of a

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Speaker 3: fund is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to look through the product, at the

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Speaker 4: characteristics so that you know what you're getting instead of

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Speaker 4: just what that headline is.

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Speaker 3: So when you look at a.

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Speaker 4: Fun name for a Vanguard product, when you look through

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Speaker 4: with those characteristics, you'll find that we're true to label.

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Speaker 2: So fifty years, what are you guys gonna do? Are

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Speaker 2: you gonna throw a big party? Or I could see.

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Speaker 1: Vanguard inviting himself before we even know Vanguard.

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Speaker 2: Knowing Vanguard, they're gonna have everyone bring in their own dish,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Because they're gonna spend like

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Speaker 2: a very little money on it, because there is no

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Speaker 2: money all the investors have byob.

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Speaker 3: Hey, look, we want to be doing our jobs.

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Speaker 4: If we had a big monster party for our fifty year,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe we'll find some way to give

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Speaker 4: something back to shareholders to celebrate fifty years there that

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Speaker 4: would be pretty.

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Speaker 2: That would be on brandow that'd be true to label,

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Speaker 2: true to label, boring but effective.

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Speaker 3: You're working your way off the invitees last year. I

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Speaker 3: don't know about that.

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Speaker 1: All remain neutral throughout this, so keeping.

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Speaker 3: Keep me in the send the invite here. Wait, you

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Speaker 3: got it?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So just on this active question though, because it

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Speaker 1: does speak to sort of where the market is going

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Speaker 1: and has gone, and you could put the bitcoin conversation,

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Speaker 1: you could put the hot sauce conversation, and as elements

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Speaker 1: of this, and yet there's this thing that is like

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Speaker 1: you know to you know your true to label comment.

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Speaker 1: How do you guys just look at innovation right, Like

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that the market's going to do.

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Speaker 1: When do you feel like you have to chase what

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Speaker 1: the market's doing versus just like, we do what we

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Speaker 1: do and we'll take our time and you know, assess

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Speaker 1: our options accordingly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think going back to the product philosophy, like

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Speaker 4: we stay pretty disciplined around that, but I wouldn't say

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Speaker 4: that we tuck our heads in the sand either, Like

436
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 4: we're very conscious about how markets are evolving around us.

437
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 4: We pay attention to all the products that are launched.

438
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 4: We do a ton of research on products. That doesn't

439
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 4: mean we always launch them or we're always aware of

440
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 4: what's happening in the industry. So we might not launch

441
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 4: the trendy products, but we know what they are. We

442
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 4: know what our investor base wants and what they expect

443
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 4: from us, and it's a two way street. So we

444
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: try to meet clients where they are, but also in

445
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 4: a way that's holistic to our philosophy and who we are.

446
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Can I ask if you have product envy about

447
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: anything that's in the marketplace that you wish you had

448
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: in your portfolio? What would that be?

449
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 4: You guys are trying to get me in trouble, aren't you.

450
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 4: I think there are a lot of cool things that

451
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 4: are happening with alternative assets and bringing those things to

452
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 4: the etf rapper. I don't know that those things are

453
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,439
Speaker 4: going to be successful, yeah, but that's definitely something that

454
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 4: I'm keeping an eye on, you know, be it private

455
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 4: equity or private credit. How are people thinking about structuring

456
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 4: that into such a liquid instrument. I don't quite understand

457
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 4: how that's gonna work yet, but if it does, I

458
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 4: think that will be really neat to bring that downstream

459
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 4: more to retail investors.

460
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm with you.

461
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: This after digital assets. To me, this is the next

462
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 2: new frontier State Street them an apollo. I hooked up Vanguard.

463
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 2: I know you have an advisory service, and the advisory

464
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 2: service I believe you have a relationship with a private

465
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 2: equity firm to get some of your advisor clients that access.

466
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 2: But that's different than packaging it into a liquid ETF.

467
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 2: But that certainly is going to be something that I

468
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: think is interesting down the road. I guess I was

469
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 2: just also curious, like we all know Vanguard. It's like

470
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: legendary company inside the bubble, but like out there in

471
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: Malvern when you're like operating your regular life, do people

472
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: know Vanguard? What's their reaction? Are they like a hometown

473
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: hero in Malvern? Like, I'm just curious how how you

474
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: how people respond that You're like, hey, I'm I'm pretty

475
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: senior person at Vanguard. What do they say?

476
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 4: You know, I'll take this back to Australia when you know,

477
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 4: I would be out and people would ask me what

478
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 4: I do and I would tell them where I worked

479
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 4: and they're like, what's that? What's Vanguard? And then I

480
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 4: would tell them and they were like, oh shares, Like oh,

481
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 4: you sell shares.

482
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: Share.

483
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 4: I can go to restate in the US, and once

484
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 4: I say that I work here, people will either say

485
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 4: thank you, or I'm a client, or you know, I

486
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 4: appreciate the work that you do.

487
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: Like I don't think there's.

488
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 4: A lot of celebrities around here. I don't think you'll

489
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 4: see somebody's face and recognize us. But we're here We're

490
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 4: doing the work for our clients, and it's so great

491
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 4: just to be walking in an airport somewhere and you know,

492
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 4: you chat with somebody and they ask you what you do,

493
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 4: and you tell them that you work here, and just

494
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 4: to hear the appreciation in their voice and the thanks

495
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 4: in their voice. Again, like, that's something that makes me

496
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 4: so happy that I work here. You know, I could

497
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 4: do this work at other organizations, but I really feel

498
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 4: like our clients respect and value what we do every day,

499
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 4: and in return, you know, I'm giving them the most

500
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 4: that I have each and every day that I come here.

501
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: And I've obviously covered you guys a ton And the

502
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: key ingredient for Vanguard to me isn't the index fun

503
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: It's the mutual ownership structure. But when you say those

504
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: three words, people's like eyes glaze over. You almost lost

505
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: them just by saying the word mutual ownership structure. But

506
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: it is the most powerful thing that has ever happened

507
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: in the financial services industry in the last fifty years.

508
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: It's like, when I go to see clients, I'm like,

509
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: Vanguard is like the Big Bang, Like everybody has to

510
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 2: now orbit around the fact that they made Beta free.

511
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: But they didn't just make it free. It was a

512
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: mutually owned company that slowly voted down to lower the

513
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: fee year after year. How do you explain that unique

514
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: structure that no one else has when you meet somebody

515
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: who's maybe not in the industry.

516
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, first of all, it sounds like you've

517
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 4: been working in the back of the kitchen as well,

518
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 4: so I think you know the end to end spectrum

519
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: of all things Vanguard. You probably have a better answer

520
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 4: for this one than I do. But you know, I

521
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 4: would say that a lot of times people look at

522
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 4: us and say we're boring, but we've been innovative, and

523
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 4: I think this is one of those cases where you

524
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 4: can see us having an innovative product structure that's provided

525
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 4: our clients with enduring lif low cost investment vehicles for

526
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 4: over two decades now, and we're confident that will be

527
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 4: the case going forward. So we're happy that we've brought

528
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: a tool to our clients that's been able to add value.

529
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: And when we talk about structures, obviously Bogel loved his TIFFs.

530
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: This was traditional index fund, which was mutual funds, and

531
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: you guys have a ton of assets in those Obviously,

532
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: you have like seventy percent market share at index mutual funds,

533
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: but with ETFs they seem like the future of Vanguard.

534
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: Whenever you look at percent flows versus percent assets, ETFs

535
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: punch above their weight every year. Are you guys really

536
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: looking at this structure to be your future?

537
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: A and B.

538
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 2: Do you see any other structures that could challenge them,

539
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: like direct indexing or tokenization which I can't help but

540
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: editorialize I don't see either of those messing with the

541
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: ETF for at least the decade DII in particular. But like,

542
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: what's your take on the structures out there and like

543
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: your future?

544
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I didn't know we were allowed to

545
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 4: say MF on this podcast, but okay, we can talk

546
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: mutual funds if you want to. I think that you know,

547
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 4: it's all about investor preference for us, So yeah, we

548
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 4: started with mutual funds. We built out our ETF business.

549
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 4: Where I am in financial advisor services, you see a

550
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 4: lot of preference for the ETF vehicle. You know where

551
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: my counterparts are probably in our institutional business working with

552
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 4: defined contribution plans, they probably still have a preference for MF,

553
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 4: So I think they're still room for both. Where we've

554
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 4: seen a lot more growth, for sure, has been on

555
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: the ETF side of the house. Tokenization, I think is interesting.

556
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of opportunity for operational efficiency

557
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 4: for products regardless of the structure. So I think there's

558
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 4: more to come there. But I don't know if it's

559
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: going to revolutionize like product structure, if it's going to

560
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: be more of an operational enhancement direct indexing, you know,

561
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 4: we have an offer there. I think this is a

562
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 4: unique solution for again, certain types of clients who may

563
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 4: want to customize what their investments are. Who are you know,

564
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 4: in a a bracket where they are being very thoughtful

565
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 4: continuously about tax list harvesting, or they just want more

566
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 4: insight and control over what securities that they own in

567
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 4: a way that's structured and thoughtful. So I think there's

568
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 4: a room for direct indexing. I don't know, if you know,

569
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 4: when these solutions started coming out, they were like, Hey,

570
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 4: this is the fun killer, this is the ETF killer.

571
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 4: I don't know if we'll get to that point, but

572
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 4: I think it's an interesting solution for a certain type

573
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: of client.

574
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: As long as we're talking about Bogel a little bit

575
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: you were at Vanguard while he was there, Eric and

576
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: I came out and visited him once. Eric has written

577
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: a book about him. Curious, what's your favorite memory of

578
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: Jack Bogel oh Man.

579
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: I really loved first when I first started working here,

580
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: which was twelve years ago, and I read all the

581
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 4: Bogel books before I got here, and I knew he

582
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 4: had an office on campus. But it's like it's like

583
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 4: working with Beyonce in your office. So it's kind of

584
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: like people would get so exciting when there would be

585
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 4: a Bogel sighting. But the funny thing was he pretty

586
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 4: much walked to the galley, which nautical theme is what

587
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 4: we call our cafeteria. He walked to the galley every day,

588
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 4: and he was so humble and would engage in conversation

589
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 4: with anyone. He was never too busy, He was never

590
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 4: too much of a rush to get his galley salader.

591
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 4: I think Gally Peanut butter and jelly was his favorite.

592
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: But just this, Yeah, you guys have PBNJA with him.

593
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 4: Super humble, thoughtful person who was always accessible to crewe,

594
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: which is what we call ourselves nautical term, and that

595
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 4: is what I respected the most. Again, just bringing that

596
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: like client centric culture and seeing it at the top

597
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 4: of the organization is what really made that cascade down

598
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 4: to the rest of us.

599
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Cool. I want to ask another question, because you

600
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: know four A one case that's a place where Vanguard

601
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: does a ton of business and especially in that m

602
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: F world. What's it? What's it like? What's the Vanguard

603
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: four A one K program look like JENNE for employees?

604
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Like just Vanguard top to bottom?

605
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, of course.

606
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 4: So we bring our low cost solutions to our employees,

607
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: and I think that's important because if we're cooking it up,

608
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 4: like we should probably eat our own cooking. I think

609
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 4: we also, you know, from a regulatory standpoint, want to

610
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 4: make sure that just like any other plan sponsor, we

611
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 4: offer the best solutions to our employees, and we are

612
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: thoughtful about like the manager search process and making sure

613
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 4: that we have a lean lineup for our investors to use.

614
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 4: I'd say we treat ourselves just like any other client,

615
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 4: like we want to have the best products there for

616
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 4: our crew to leverage, as they say, for their retirement

617
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: goals as well. We also have really great benefits around

618
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 4: our retirement savings plans.

619
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: So if anybody is looking for a job.

620
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: I hope the match is amazing.

621
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: It's impressive, well impressive.

622
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: When Vocals started this out, there was early in the

623
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: early days, people were like, yeah, yeah, we're saving all

624
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: these investors' money, but you know, we want to get

625
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: a little something too, And so he created some programs

626
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: internally that to help solve that because there is like, hey,

627
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: we're doing God's work here, but you know, people go

628
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: to business school, they want to make money too. There

629
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: was always a little bit of a tension there, which

630
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 2: I can understand. Speaking of that, I do think if

631
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: Vanguard does have an achilles heel, it's customer service, and

632
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: I was curious. I know that's a little out of

633
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: your purview, but like, is that one of the focuses

634
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: coming up or what can we can we expect to

635
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: see a lot of resources put towards that in the future.

636
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: The answer to that is absolutely. I think.

637
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: There was an interesting article that came out on Salim's

638
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 4: first day around our client experience, and you know, we've

639
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 4: really been investing heavily in that space.

640
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: We listen to our clients, we hear the feedback. We're

641
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: trying to leverage.

642
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 4: Lots of data that we have in our hands and

643
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: lots of emerging technologies so that we can ahead of

644
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 4: the game. We're not just trying to catch up when

645
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: it comes to client experience. I think we all admit

646
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 4: that we've fallen behind, but we've been working through technology

647
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 4: modernization and I'd say we're most of the way there,

648
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: and now it's the how do we kind of gain

649
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 4: our footing back so that we're leaders in the industry

650
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: when it comes to client experience. So that is definitely

651
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 4: something that we're focused on. That's something that we are

652
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 4: putting the right amount of resources towards, and something that

653
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: in the coming years when I come here and chat

654
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: with you guys on this podcast, hopefully we won't have

655
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 4: to talk about because you'll be that impressed.

656
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,239
Speaker 3: I'm in sales now, I can tell.

657
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: I can tell. All right. So last question one that

658
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: we often ask folks, all this is going to be

659
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: good favorite ETF ticker other than your own? So nothing

660
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: that Vanguard does. What's your favorite ETF.

661
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: Ticker other than my own?

662
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: You can take some time, no rush.

663
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just gonna be silent until we run

664
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: out of time on this podcast.

665
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: First time I think that's ever been the response just

666
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: let the shot cloud go.

667
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 4: I think we have the most clever tippers when it

668
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 4: comes to using romannumerals, So woo is my favorite.

669
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 3: It's five hundred.

670
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: Look, you guys have a lot going on, But could

671
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: you tell is not one of them?

672
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: Could you tell that she works in sales? That was

673
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't own.

674
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: I wouldn't claim that.

675
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, who is kind of cool.

676
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: It's five hundred Roman numeral, but I mean that's we're

677
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: going to get you a shirt.

678
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: And chill.

679
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: My my friend who's a heart doctor from college, that's

680
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: his phrase. I saw him at the fiftieth birthday party, is.

681
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: Like woo and chill Man, Woo and chill. Anyway, on

682
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: the merch, Janelle Jackson, thanks so much for joining us

683
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: on Trillions.

684
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: Thank you for finally having me.

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00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Trillions until next time. You can

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00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

687
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: or wherever else you'd like to listen. We'd love to

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00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: hear from you. We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Webber Show.

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00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: He's at Eric Baltunas. This episode of Trillions was produced

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00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: by Magnus Hendrickson. Bye