Speaker 1: Yeah, no mess Welcome to the Mess around. It is
Speaker 1: our New Girl Recap, a recap podcast that I do
Speaker 1: with Lemourn and we bring in all the New Girl
Speaker 1: fan favorites that made the show the show, and I
Speaker 1: would say, without exaggeration, maybe fifty percent of our questions
Speaker 1: are about what we're wearing. How it all came to
Speaker 1: be where people can get a bird shirt, we're zolways,
Speaker 1: clothes made or bought, I mean on and the wedding dresses,
Speaker 1: the amazing weddings, and I'm like, this was Debra's world.
Speaker 1: We somehow And I remember this when I got a
Speaker 1: New Girl and they said that Deborah maguire was doing costumes.
Speaker 1: It was really my first job in the industry. So
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I can't wait to meet Deborah
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, like they got Deborah and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, what does that mean? And they're like,
Speaker 1: she's the greatest in the entire business. Nobody can understand
Speaker 1: how they got her. And then I got to learn
Speaker 1: over like almost a decade of how and why you
Speaker 1: are the best in every single aspect of what you do.
Speaker 1: So what is your New Girl origin story? How did
Speaker 1: you get connected to the show, and why did you
Speaker 1: agree to do it?
Speaker 2: Truthfully, it must have had to do with Jake Castin, right,
Speaker 2: mm hmm. Yeah. So you know, I started working with
Speaker 2: Jake on Freaks and Geeks, and then I started doing
Speaker 2: all of his shows, and you know, we had the
Speaker 2: three shows going for a long time, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: that's how I got there.
Speaker 1: Jake was just like, you're you're part of this world.
Speaker 2: Right, I've done At that point, I'd worked with him
Speaker 2: since he was twenty two years old, I think get out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was like, you have to be part
Speaker 1: of this. How did you approach creating the looks for
Speaker 1: the central cast of New Girl.
Speaker 2: Well, I had this idea that was about color and
Speaker 2: with you know, Zoe being the teacher and sort of
Speaker 2: the center of the cyclone. I thought of it like
Speaker 2: a box of Crayola krans and that She was like, like,
Speaker 2: I have a real connection to Crayola Kranz from the
Speaker 2: time I'm a child. I can like smell, I know
Speaker 2: what it smells like. Like I every time the boxes
Speaker 2: got bigger and there were more crans in there, it
Speaker 2: was the most exciting thing in the world. So I
Speaker 2: sort of dealt with it like that, and she was
Speaker 2: a Creola cran And then I designed everybody else around them,
Speaker 2: around her, and that's why she had all those primary
Speaker 2: colors and and everybody else, you know, because it's an
Speaker 2: ensemble and you guys are together so much, much the
Speaker 2: same as I had when I did Friends. It was
Speaker 2: the same thing. When you have an ensemble cast and
Speaker 2: they're together a lot, it's more about the way it
Speaker 2: looks together than it is about the individual fashion because subliminally,
Speaker 2: you know, we're looking at the screen as a painting,
Speaker 2: so it needs to look beautiful. So that's my main
Speaker 2: concern always, that's the first concern. And then you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes you know, I have to have some disappointment about,
Speaker 2: you know, things that work and things that don't, and
Speaker 2: having to adjust that palette. But for the most part,
Speaker 2: you know, I designed by palette, and this show fit
Speaker 2: in pretty well. I mean, you know, your character added
Speaker 2: a lot of different silhouettes from Zoe's silhouettes, and also
Speaker 2: some patterns that we didn't really see that often in
Speaker 2: her clothes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with Zoe's clothes, I feel like I remember conversations
Speaker 1: about you made right.
Speaker 2: Quite a few. We made a lot of her looks
Speaker 2: most of them actually, because she had that you know,
Speaker 2: that fifties silhouette, so if it wasn't vintage, and sometimes
Speaker 2: we had a vintage style that worked perfectly, so I
Speaker 2: would knock off a pattern from that and then do
Speaker 2: a series of dresses off of that. But her figure
Speaker 2: was such that that shirt waist showing her waist was
Speaker 2: really the best look for her. So we made that,
Speaker 2: and we also made all those jammies she wore. She
Speaker 2: wear a lot of pajamas.
Speaker 1: You know what's really funny, I have a very clear
Speaker 1: memory of my first fitting with you.
Speaker 2: So do I at night downtown at that down Yeah,
Speaker 2: me too.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, okay, I took a screen grab of this. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll play. We'll put the picture up properly when we
Speaker 1: put it in the show. It's so funny because again
Speaker 1: it was my first show. I have to show you.
Speaker 2: It was this.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like going to focus.
Speaker 2: Yes, there the feathers, that's right.
Speaker 1: And so I remember, so I've again never done a
Speaker 1: big show. This was my first big thing I'd ever booked,
Speaker 1: and they were like, well, never wants to meet you downtown.
Speaker 1: I was like downtown, and so I was not the
Speaker 1: most confident driver. I only learned to drive in La,
Speaker 1: So I'm like trying to like navigate my way, hoping
Speaker 1: I don't die on the way to the fitting. And
Speaker 1: it was a beautiful day, and I think you were
Speaker 1: finishing up something else. I don't even know if it
Speaker 1: was for a new girl, maybe for something else, because
Speaker 1: you were in this fabulous, fabulous like warehouse and and
Speaker 1: so I was waiting on the roof. And I remember
Speaker 1: waiting on the roof and it was this beautiful day
Speaker 1: and blue skies, and I was I just couldn't believe
Speaker 1: it was real. I had then been educated on your
Speaker 1: career and who you were, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm going to figure out who this character was
Speaker 1: not understanding like there's going to be multiple looks. There's
Speaker 1: going to be your core look. This is going to
Speaker 1: be like a joke photoshoot that you're going for a
Speaker 1: fitting for. I didn't understand all those things yet, and
Speaker 1: so I think someone came I don't know who came
Speaker 1: up and like tap me on the shoulder and they
Speaker 1: were like, Debraa's ready, And I came in and they're
Speaker 1: on this rack. Were some of to this day, the
Speaker 1: most wild outfits with shoes and like hats that I
Speaker 1: had ever seen in my entire life, and it was
Speaker 1: one of the most fun things I've ever done. So
Speaker 1: what was that space? Where did that conversation come about
Speaker 1: to like go that far with it?
Speaker 2: Truthfully, I have a real recollection of it. But I
Speaker 2: don't remember what that company was. I don't know that
Speaker 2: they exist anymore. But I did know that they had
Speaker 2: inherited like tons of old McQueen and lots of amazing
Speaker 2: dresses and things that I just wouldn't be able to
Speaker 2: access in other places, and I thought that would be
Speaker 2: like a perfect place to try stuck on it. I
Speaker 2: remember we tried on some McQueen shoes, really weird shoes,
Speaker 2: and it was really fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have pictures of it. I have to find them.
Speaker 1: I think it's on my other computer. I have pictures
Speaker 1: from the fitting. You sent me the fitting pictures. I'll
Speaker 1: text them to you too. And their outfits are fabulous,
Speaker 1: I mean they're beyond fabulous. And then I remember that
Speaker 1: that was the outfit that they chose for a scene
Speaker 1: that never made it into the pilot on the cutting
Speaker 1: room floor, I know, but it was so and I
Speaker 1: remember the hair. We just like went for it with
Speaker 1: this incredible look and I was like, this is going
Speaker 1: to be so fun. And I was so nervous, and
Speaker 1: they put me on the stage and then a security
Speaker 1: safety guy came out and was like, nobody speak, nobody move,
Speaker 1: and they brought in a vulture, like a bird of prey,
Speaker 1: and I was dressed like a bird, and they were like,
Speaker 1: nobody speak because these are like predatory animals and we
Speaker 1: don't want it to get scared. And then I remember
Speaker 1: Aaron O'Malley coming over to whisper to me. She's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so then we're just gonna give you a hand signal
Speaker 1: for action. And then in the scene I was screaming
Speaker 1: into the phone dressed as a bird. Well this bird
Speaker 1: was next to me. I was like, this was the
Speaker 1: most surreal experience of my life and that outfit was
Speaker 1: the most incredible thing I'd worn. And then instantly in
Speaker 1: that moment became so terrifying because I felt like I
Speaker 1: was a bird.
Speaker 2: It was and it never made it right into it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: welcome to my world. Like the most fabulous things I
Speaker 2: think I have ever done in my life. I didn't
Speaker 2: make it in the movie because.
Speaker 1: No one ever saw. I also have to share another
Speaker 1: memory with you because it was also in that first
Speaker 1: year we got nominated for a Golden Globe. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember this conversation, and I was like,
Speaker 1: the only person I need to talk to is Deborah.
Speaker 1: And I had found a dress and I loved it
Speaker 1: so much, and it was green, and I remember having
Speaker 1: you come to my trailer and I was like, I
Speaker 1: want to talk to you in confidence about something. I
Speaker 1: really like this dress. It's great and my first time
Speaker 1: I ever gonna wear like a fancy designer on a
Speaker 1: red carpet, like and I was so worried that Zoe
Speaker 1: would be wearing the same color and that I would
Speaker 1: in any way distract from her by wearing the same color.
Speaker 1: It was like old school, like high school thinking, like
Speaker 1: I was just so worried that, you know, like I
Speaker 1: don't know the rules of the red carpet. And I
Speaker 1: remember you gently sitting down with me and explaining of
Speaker 1: all these people's like dresses that you'd had made and
Speaker 1: had done for every like award show, and you were like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Wear the dress that you want to wear,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Everybody's gonna be wearing every color. And
Speaker 1: it was the kindest moment of education and sudden that
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with our show, but just
Speaker 1: in terms of my own confidence of being able to
Speaker 1: stand in what felt good to me, not in a
Speaker 1: character to be able to go to this honoring and
Speaker 1: I had no one else to kind of turn to
Speaker 1: that I would have believed. And I think about that
Speaker 1: all the time, even now when I'd choose an outfit,
Speaker 1: I'm always like, oh, it doesn't matter when anybody else
Speaker 1: is wearing or doing or the palette. In those moments,
Speaker 1: you can just express yourself and what feels good. And
Speaker 1: that was you. That was you teaching me that in
Speaker 1: taking the time, and I think it was pretty you know,
Speaker 1: crazy as always on that show, but you found like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifteen minutes and sat down and just
Speaker 1: walk me through it in those moments.
Speaker 2: I don't know you realize that that's so sweet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a really powerful one for me. I
Speaker 1: just have the fondest memories of us being in that
Speaker 1: trailer and we would do these huge fittings and we
Speaker 1: would talk about our lives and our families and our
Speaker 1: pain always always and it was you just always had
Speaker 1: that time to share and it was really like you
Speaker 1: and your department was really I think Laura and I
Speaker 1: talk about all the time like that was like family,
Speaker 1: Like it's what made it feel like we were so
Speaker 1: cared for because it was really And you've been on
Speaker 1: a lot of those shows where it's people's first experience
Speaker 1: being kind of thrust out there and they're looking at
Speaker 1: our bodies and then how you guys outfit us, you know,
Speaker 1: gives us the confidence or makes us self conscious and
Speaker 1: out of our body.
Speaker 2: Well, we had Kathy and Megan, who are like my daughters.
Speaker 2: So Kathy just became a grandmother. If you can believe it, No.
Speaker 1: I can not.
Speaker 2: Yes, what yes?
Speaker 1: Wow? Oh but that's so sea.
Speaker 2: So I know I feel like she just had, you know,
Speaker 2: her baby, not that long ago. But it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, how did you? Okay? So the big question
Speaker 1: is I have been put in charge of this because
Speaker 1: we put a like a call to action out to
Speaker 1: the fans about this, and I would say about fifty
Speaker 1: percent of those questions coming in were about Lamarne, about
Speaker 1: Lomarn and the bird shirt. And so I'm going to
Speaker 1: read you this from a fan her name is Amy Caruso.
Speaker 1: She wrote, I love listening to the show every week.
Speaker 1: Hearing the Debora will be on got me so excited
Speaker 1: because I have a question that's been haunting me for years.
Speaker 1: I think this is a big fan theory that we
Speaker 1: all want to know. So, season four, episode twenty one,
Speaker 1: Jess and Nick talk about who they are growing old with.
Speaker 1: After Nick says he just sees himself next to Winston,
Speaker 1: just says, yeahmy too. I just see an ancient Winston
Speaker 1: eating handfuls of bird seed right out of the bag.
Speaker 1: He just really gets in to birds. Could you please
Speaker 1: confirm if this was foreshadowing of or the triggering idea
Speaker 1: to Winston's obsessions with bird shirts for the very next season.
Speaker 1: What's the background on the birds?
Speaker 2: Interesting questions? So I don't think that's the case. However,
Speaker 2: I do believe in all of these things that we do,
Speaker 2: that there is a level of synchronicity that exists with everything.
Speaker 2: And you know, what happens in a television show sort
Speaker 2: of mirrors real life. You know that when people ask me,
Speaker 2: you know about the characters, and from season to season,
Speaker 2: it's like everybody evolves in the same way that we
Speaker 2: evolve as human beings because we're going through these periods
Speaker 2: of time. So I don't think there's a direct correlation
Speaker 2: between the bird seed and the bird And I think
Speaker 2: also what the fans should know is that the biggest
Speaker 2: evolution was schmidt evolution in terms of him as a
Speaker 2: person and his personal style. I mean, if you remember
Speaker 2: he was in polo shirts for you know a few seasons,
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, and you know a lot of
Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily have to do with me and my ideas,
Speaker 2: but has to do with sort of the next level
Speaker 2: of writers and people who are giving us the information
Speaker 2: about the characters so we can best satisfy. Sometimes we're
Speaker 2: at odds, but I am a servant to them. They
Speaker 2: do not serve me. That being said, a lot of
Speaker 2: decisions don't necessarily come from me directly. They come from above,
Speaker 2: from the writing. You know a lot of it and
Speaker 2: a lot of the ideas that get generated are things
Speaker 2: that we have to process from information that we get
Speaker 2: from the be And in doing that and evolving his
Speaker 2: character to those great shirts, and that became sort of
Speaker 2: an obsession with us because it was a really good
Speaker 2: place for us to be creative, which we're always looking
Speaker 2: for and you know, sometimes you know, once we get
Speaker 2: into who these characters are, there's only so much creativity
Speaker 2: that we can insert, unless, of course, we have a
Speaker 2: fabulous wedding or we have a reason to create something.
Speaker 2: The day to day is pretty much within its little bubble.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I knew Girl had a lot of those
Speaker 1: fun episodes. It seems like with like Halloween episodes.
Speaker 2: Halloween episodes definitely, and hello we had Prince I mean yeah, hello,
Speaker 2: probably only the greatest experiences ever.
Speaker 1: Why, I mean still to this day it feels really surreal.
Speaker 1: We're recapping season three right now, which comes off the
Speaker 1: heels of Taylor Swift being in the season two finale.
Speaker 1: Did you pick that Elaine dress? Was that provided by wardrobe?
Speaker 1: Was that hers?
Speaker 2: No? We those are our dresses?
Speaker 1: How did you decide on that iconical? So many people
Speaker 1: said that they went to the Taylor Swift concert dressed
Speaker 1: as a lane, so like they remade the dress. They
Speaker 1: have like altered dresses to beat the Elaine dress.
Speaker 2: Okay, so just so you know, you know, I'm old,
Speaker 2: What can I say? You know, like she falls within
Speaker 2: a category that like I didn't really know, you know,
Speaker 2: it didn't have any more importance than you know, anybody
Speaker 2: else being on the show. The ideation, don't. I didn't
Speaker 2: equate her with Prince. Let's put it that way. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: Prince is my wheelhouse. So for me, Taylor Swift was
Speaker 2: like dealing with any other actor that comes in, you know.
Speaker 2: And so the dress, you know, we had picked up
Speaker 2: dresses and she was very agreeable. You know, she was
Speaker 2: lovely to work with. Easy, So you know, I don't
Speaker 2: remember that much except looking at pictures on her phone
Speaker 2: of her cats. You know. That's so.
Speaker 1: That's so It's funny, right, those moments where you're just
Speaker 1: like another day, another you know, a guest star, so cool,
Speaker 1: no big deals on you, Hannah, because.
Speaker 2: Your outfit, you were like, that's what I cared about,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Oh.
Speaker 1: My gosh, that outfit. That was my first time ever
Speaker 1: going to Artesia ever well going there and I was like,
Speaker 1: and you were like, I've been here many times. Let
Speaker 1: me take you to the best stores. And I was like,
Speaker 1: what you opened up that whole part of LA to me.
Speaker 1: I had no idea the best and was so overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: like anybody who's gone like Indian wedding dress shopping. I
Speaker 1: had never done that before. It's not like even going
Speaker 1: just for like your white wedding dress, like time's it
Speaker 1: by a million in terms of options. So how did
Speaker 1: how did? I can't even I can't remember, like how
Speaker 1: we landed on what we chose for the wedding dress.
Speaker 2: Oh. When I took you there and we tried stuff on,
Speaker 2: it was like, hands down, it was the most magnificently embellished, gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Sorry ever, it was like, oh my god. So it
Speaker 2: was there was no competition. You put it on and
Speaker 2: it was like whoa, that's the one. Yeah, that was amazing.
Speaker 1: It was incredible. I just remember being like, what's little India?
Speaker 1: Like I truly had no idea because I was still
Speaker 1: so new to La and being like wow, okay, so
Speaker 1: you mentioned Prince, so we've got to talk about it,
Speaker 1: like how did he was that? Also, Ward, you're bringing
Speaker 1: close to him. I know he does a whole dress
Speaker 1: up sequence with Zoe in phenomenal clothes. What was that?
Speaker 2: So he we were in touch with his people and
Speaker 2: they were going to bring sort of we gave them
Speaker 2: sort of things we were looking for and they were
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's so tiny
Speaker 2: and his feet were so tiny. So they were going
Speaker 2: to bring the shoes and dah da da da dah.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm just thinking about those shoes. Oh
Speaker 2: my god. They were like a wedge and it was
Speaker 2: a clear heel that you could see through, and they
Speaker 2: were just outrageous. Yeah, everything he brought was outrageous. But
Speaker 2: we also had really taken it very seriously and had
Speaker 2: gotten some of the most amazing things from Palace Costume
Speaker 2: in different places, and so we just had an assortment
Speaker 2: of stuff. So he wore his stuff, and he wore
Speaker 2: a little bit of our stuff, and then Zoe wore
Speaker 2: some stuff as well, Right, she puts stuff on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it was like it was really like an out
Speaker 2: of body experience because it was so normal that it
Speaker 2: was weird. Like it was so weird, it was so normal,
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, my conversation with him, sitting in the
Speaker 2: director's chair next to him, we talked about the weather
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, like we had like the most normal conversation
Speaker 2: that you'd have when you meet your cousins in the
Speaker 2: Midwest and you have a little conversation. That's what it
Speaker 2: was like. And I remember the end of the day
Speaker 2: just thinking, oh my god. And I don't know. I'm
Speaker 2: sure you remember, Hannah, when he like in between he
Speaker 2: just was sitting on the couch and then he started
Speaker 2: playing the guitar. But we were just all trying to
Speaker 2: be so cool and it was so not cool. It
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, Prince is sitting five feet
Speaker 2: away from me and he's playing the guitar and singing,
Speaker 2: Oh my God. Like it was and nobody could emote
Speaker 2: or express themselves really until after because we all had
Speaker 2: to be so cool. You know, we were so cool,
Speaker 2: and it.
Speaker 1: Was so everybody trying to hold it together was the
Speaker 1: greatest thing in the world because everyone's just like trying
Speaker 1: to just be like casual and then you would watch
Speaker 1: people like step out for you know, craftier to get
Speaker 1: a snack or something and then just being like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, oh my god, like these like mini heart
Speaker 1: attack moments.
Speaker 2: Of like and then Hannah, it's true, right, Like the
Speaker 2: reason he wanted to do it is because he had
Speaker 2: a crush.
Speaker 1: On our little Hannah. Yeah a Christian you Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was yeah. Yeah. He tried for a very long time.
Speaker 1: He tried for a very long time. To find a
Speaker 1: way to be in the same room together. Yep, And
Speaker 1: I uh, I was not interested in that way. Love
Speaker 1: a Prince song, Happy to a Prince record, I was
Speaker 1: not interested in anything else. So I was never in
Speaker 1: the same room with Prince. And then yeah, he uh
Speaker 1: it was like a teenage boy showed up at my job,
Speaker 1: which was really funny. And then that's apparently with people
Speaker 1: that he really likes that to have that time, quality
Speaker 1: time with he likes to he liked to play ping pong,
Speaker 1: and so that's why they I don't know if you
Speaker 1: were still there at that point, but at the night
Speaker 1: it was like five in the morning, they had to
Speaker 1: write in the tag because how were they going to
Speaker 1: incorporate ping pong into the show? And they had to
Speaker 1: write this tag where Prince would get his request, which
Speaker 1: was he wanted to play ping pong with me, And
Speaker 1: they saved it as the last thing that we shot
Speaker 1: because they were low key scared that if we shot
Speaker 1: that early, he would be east Prince so he could
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I'm gonna go now, and so we
Speaker 1: saved it for the end. And the thing that I'll
Speaker 1: never ever I don't play ping pong I'm not a
Speaker 1: good ping pong player. I was so tired. It had
Speaker 1: been a you know, twenty something our day, and I
Speaker 1: just slammed the shot and he had it because I
Speaker 1: was just so tired. My body just went like we're
Speaker 1: doing it, and then he was like he genuinely did
Speaker 1: walk off, which was really funny. But you guys had
Speaker 1: put me in that gold like bandage dress, and to
Speaker 1: this day, I don't think I've ever looked as good
Speaker 1: as I did on the day that I met Prince
Speaker 1: because that dress. I mean, it didn't seem like on
Speaker 1: the hangar you're like, oh, it's nice, but somehow it
Speaker 1: was like made for my body. I don't know. You
Speaker 1: guys had the most amazing way of just like pulling
Speaker 1: it in here, pulling this part up here, sensing this
Speaker 1: thing in here, we're gonna take it up an inch,
Speaker 1: and then it was like it was like Cinderella every time,
Speaker 1: like it was made to hide the things you don't
Speaker 1: want to see and to compliment the things, and to
Speaker 1: give you body parts you didn't even have, and it
Speaker 1: was like you guys were magicians that way. It was
Speaker 1: wild to me. And I watched that episode and I
Speaker 1: was like that dress gave me the confidence to be
Speaker 1: like that was a real high pressure episode. That was
Speaker 1: like their biggest one, right, and he was there, And
Speaker 1: I feel like somebody told me too about like the
Speaker 1: Zoe like the outfit changes. It was all with like
Speaker 1: a Stevie Nicks like yeah, right, like that was her
Speaker 1: thing she was going for at the time. How fun
Speaker 1: it was. What's the most I guess aside from Prince,
Speaker 1: because how can we compare anything to that day that
Speaker 1: was crazy? Aside from Prince, what was your favorite episode
Speaker 1: or moment or fashion moment in the show that you
Speaker 1: You're like, that was a good time.
Speaker 2: Well, the Indian wedding and the dancing and that whole
Speaker 2: thing was just amazing. And yeah, and that was sort
Speaker 2: of the prequel to the movie when I did Murder
Speaker 2: Mystery Too. I don't know if you.
Speaker 1: Saw, but I saw it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Indian and I had everything made in India for
Speaker 2: like three hundred dancers. But I got a taste of
Speaker 2: that from having done New Girl, and I met this
Speaker 2: woman in Artesia who had a factory in Mumbai and
Speaker 2: she ended up doing all the manufacturing for me. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was really really special, and yeah, I just love that,
Speaker 2: and I loved you know, Schmidt and his funny outfit.
Speaker 1: Or the suit. Were you guys part of that, the
Speaker 1: development of the suit?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That was crazy. Did you guys have to make that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, people love that.
Speaker 1: People talk about that all the time. Especially when the
Speaker 1: pandemic hit. It had like a resurgence. People were like,
Speaker 1: where can we get it? It's got to be real
Speaker 1: so funny.
Speaker 2: No, I should probably watch it the whole thing again
Speaker 2: because I have to tell you it's hysterical. So I
Speaker 2: had Kathy and Megan with me, of course, and we'd
Speaker 2: read the script and then I'd go, Okay, you guys,
Speaker 2: you have to tell me, like what.
Speaker 1: Does it mean?
Speaker 2: Like? Am I that old that I don't get the jokes?
Speaker 2: They got the biggest kick out of it. And we'd
Speaker 2: go through the script together and they'd be like yeah,
Speaker 2: and then they'd have to explain it to me. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, not another generation. It was
Speaker 2: like humor had gotten to another level. I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I don't even understand it.
Speaker 1: Oh the other question I had to ask you Another
Speaker 1: person asked me this, and I was like, I'll ask
Speaker 1: ever we get on the show. It was about the
Speaker 1: raining cats and dogs Halloween cape right that was on.
Speaker 1: It was that something you guys had to make too
Speaker 1: with the cats and dogs.
Speaker 2: Whatsh Yeah, but that's like we love doing it, like
Speaker 2: that's what we donna right right, that's like what I do,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like so when we have
Speaker 2: the ability to do anything like that, we're down on it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's a fun episode too exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean anybody can like go shopping or do It's like,
Speaker 2: that's not really what we do. I'm a costume designer
Speaker 2: and you know Kathy's gone on to become a big designer.
Speaker 2: You know, she's Post Malone's designer and all these rock
Speaker 2: stars heard that yeah for years and it's done like
Speaker 2: the most amazing things. So yeah, we're always looking for
Speaker 2: like the creative moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of something that you can kind of inject your
Speaker 1: your creativity into. And what's do you remember the biggest
Speaker 1: like challenge you had a new girl where you fought
Speaker 1: for something and you're like, this is this needs to happen.
Speaker 1: Trust me on this one.
Speaker 2: You can't really go there without getting myself in trouble. Fair, Okay, Fair,
Speaker 2: So you know we had some powers that be that
Speaker 2: it's a little arm wrestling going on at times, but
Speaker 2: uh yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is I remember there were very
Speaker 1: few moments where I, you know, because we worked together
Speaker 1: so long and so there's always going to be a
Speaker 1: moment I guess right where you're just like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't understand or whatever it is. We all have good days,
Speaker 1: bad days. We were again, we're family at that point,
Speaker 1: so we just had to have a lot of grace
Speaker 1: for each other going through the things when it happened,
Speaker 1: and know that, you know, we loved each other and
Speaker 1: we're all good people. But I remember I feel like
Speaker 1: it was for the Ferguson funeral, and you know, like
Speaker 1: they did that dramatic open like they were at a
Speaker 1: funeral and to look like a cast member died or something.
Speaker 1: And I don't remember. I can't remember because it was
Speaker 1: so long ago. If it was me, and it was
Speaker 1: like either I wanted to wear a coat or I
Speaker 1: didn't want to wear a coat. Either was cold and
Speaker 1: I wanted a coat, or it was sweltering. Maybe it
Speaker 1: was sweltering, but we had to wear coats. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it was. And I just remember I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I really don't want and I
Speaker 1: don't know why that was like this little hill I
Speaker 1: wanted to die on that day or something. And I
Speaker 1: don't know what those moments were sometimes and then now,
Speaker 1: of course with time and you pull back from it
Speaker 1: and you just go like girls sometimes you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta wear things you don't want to wear, even
Speaker 1: if it's uncomfortable. You're selling a story and it's a
Speaker 1: cohesive look. And as I've moved now into producing and
Speaker 1: executive producing, I have such a deeper understanding of those moments.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you, like, you had some really great
Speaker 1: like mom energy sometimes where you're just sort of like, well,
Speaker 1: I know you feel that way, we're gonna put the
Speaker 1: coat on. And it was sort of like and then
Speaker 1: that's what we had to do. And I was grateful
Speaker 1: for that because otherwise it starts to for me at
Speaker 1: least I think, you know, it's like you get an insue,
Speaker 1: maybe start to push a mile a little. But I remember,
Speaker 1: I feel like it was around that Fergusing thing, and
Speaker 1: I feel like that was those moments of somebody being like, no,
Speaker 1: that's what's happening. This is what we're doing, so be
Speaker 1: uncomfortable on a hot day. That's we're all a little
Speaker 1: uncomfortable sometimes in this business. But I appreciated it.
Speaker 2: I have a visceral reaction to what you're saying, so
Speaker 2: inside of me I remember, but in my brain I
Speaker 2: don't exactly remember, but the emotion came up of remembering that.
Speaker 2: And that's how it is with a lot of what happens,
Speaker 2: you know, like how far do you push and how
Speaker 2: important is it? And you know, for the most part,
Speaker 2: I for me to care has to mean something, because
Speaker 2: really I don't really give a shit about a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff that has to do with things that aren't important,
Speaker 2: especially for things on the screen. You know, it's really
Speaker 2: important for me of what we see, but there's a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff that we don't see that there's a
Speaker 2: lot of energy put into unnecessarily, and I think sometimes
Speaker 2: that happens on shows like this, where a lot of
Speaker 2: energy gets spent on things that are not that important,
Speaker 2: and then sometimes when something is important, it's only obvious
Speaker 2: to very few people. So it's the nature of the
Speaker 2: beast of working on a collaborative show, which I love.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's and you know, I'm so used to
Speaker 2: being in charge and being in charge of my life
Speaker 2: and my family and the things that I'm involved in
Speaker 2: that you know, in this work, I'm just a messenger.
Speaker 2: So I have to really use a lot of self
Speaker 2: control to kind of, you know, keep myself in a
Speaker 2: place where it's not it's not about my ideas, it's
Speaker 2: not not even you know, doesn't matter what it is,
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's a two hundred million dollar movie
Speaker 2: that I'm designing or not. You know, it's you present
Speaker 2: what you have and then you deal with what the
Speaker 2: feedback is and you make it work. So you know,
Speaker 2: it's definitely a collaborative thing. Nobody is really in charge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I feel that deeply. I feel like that.
Speaker 1: And again, as I've stayed longer in the industry, I
Speaker 1: understand that more and more. I love how you keep
Speaker 1: learning how important and unimportant it all is, and that
Speaker 1: hopefully you're all on the same team, right and we're
Speaker 1: all here for the win. Because as soon as one
Speaker 1: person starts to make it fully just about them and
Speaker 1: their experience, that's what starts to feel bumpy, because then
Speaker 1: it starts to have this weird domino effect on everything
Speaker 1: and So those moments, those little teaching moments that I
Speaker 1: had on New Girl. I always feel like New Girl
Speaker 1: prepared me for going out into the world to be
Speaker 1: on other shows, because it was very loving, but there
Speaker 1: was there was boundaries of things where like, well, this
Speaker 1: is kind of where that moment is, and this is
Speaker 1: kind of like where we're drawing the line, and sometimes
Speaker 1: we'd push, but then I feel like we'd all find
Speaker 1: a way to come back together. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the when people talk about the chemistry of this show,
Speaker 1: Lamarne and I always say, like it goes well beyond
Speaker 1: what you guys saw on screen, like every department. Really,
Speaker 1: that was the thing that always blew my mind as
Speaker 1: you would hear like you've worked with every movie star
Speaker 1: in the world, on every huge TV show, You've worked
Speaker 1: with the greatest directors in the world, and there isn't
Speaker 1: a single drop of apathy that has ever felt when
Speaker 1: you walked into our trailer, like five times a week,
Speaker 1: coming in cared about like every you know, pair of
Speaker 1: jeans that I put on, or this T shirt or
Speaker 1: here's options for your accessories, but wear one. Trust me,
Speaker 1: you want to start wearing these accessories. Anna. I remember
Speaker 1: those conversations like how do you not yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you not get jaded? How do you just keep that
Speaker 1: passion alive no matter what because you had it every
Speaker 1: time you walked in the room.
Speaker 2: Well I couldn't. You know, I'm doing this. This is
Speaker 2: my third career and I'm thirty four years into this career,
Speaker 2: so you know, I mean, but I'm at a different
Speaker 2: place in my career even now than I was then.
Speaker 2: It's not that I don't care, because I cared, maybe
Speaker 2: even more now, but I have a really different approach
Speaker 2: to how I work and I only work for people
Speaker 2: that I love. I don't My agent calls me and
Speaker 2: she'll go, I know you like this person, but do
Speaker 2: you love them? And I'm like, no, I just like them.
Speaker 1: Pass Wow. Yeah, and that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Well, it makes every project or gasmic literally like amazing
Speaker 2: because it's not just creative and interesting but fun and
Speaker 2: there's a different flow that happens. It really is collaborative.
Speaker 2: It's not just pretending to be where someone is really
Speaker 2: in charge and then pretends that we're being collaborative. The
Speaker 2: things I work in are very collaborative. And you know,
Speaker 2: I met just at this point in my career that
Speaker 2: I can't do it any other way, And I feel
Speaker 2: like I have learned a lot to be where I
Speaker 2: am and make the decisions that I make.
Speaker 1: I was saying that to someone the other day of
Speaker 1: a sense maybe of what you're saying, which is the
Speaker 1: greatest part is like when you in this industry, is
Speaker 1: when you get your career to the point where you
Speaker 1: can really embrace the power of no. You can say no,
Speaker 1: and so you're only doing the work you want to
Speaker 1: do with the people you want to do it. And then,
Speaker 1: of course, and it becomes highly enjoyable because they fully
Speaker 1: trust you and you fully trust them, and you don't
Speaker 1: have to deal with any of that stuff, right, so
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the battles are less and the
Speaker 1: excitement is higher. And it's because you have the privilege
Speaker 1: and luxury. It's a certain point from working for it
Speaker 1: where you can say yeah, pass.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it took a long time, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's took a long time to get to this place.
Speaker 2: It didn't just happen.
Speaker 1: You've worked on everything with everyone truly, like truly, I mean,
Speaker 1: your career is so aspirational, is there, Like what's left
Speaker 1: on like they're your bucket list of things you want
Speaker 1: to do or types of stories you'd like to be
Speaker 1: part of telling.
Speaker 2: You know, Hannah, I never I didn't take the route
Speaker 2: of doing those interesting projects of those working with the
Speaker 2: Michael Man's of the world. And I had the option
Speaker 2: to do all of that, but I was raising children,
Speaker 2: and I had a husband, and I was in LA
Speaker 2: and I needed to create a career trajectory that was
Speaker 2: going to work for them. And I'm a workaholic, so
Speaker 2: I mean, there were those years when I had to
Speaker 2: do five and six projects at the same time in
Speaker 2: order to make enough money to support my family, and
Speaker 2: I worked my ass off. I just you know, for
Speaker 2: almost thirty years, I worked my ass off, and I
Speaker 2: had a goal, which was to take care of my
Speaker 2: family and make sure that we could live the way
Speaker 2: we needed to live. And my husband's a therapist and
Speaker 2: work in school with kids with learning disabilities, so our
Speaker 2: income wasn't going to come from there, and I had
Speaker 2: to make those decisions early on, which I did, so
Speaker 2: I never took those interesting projects that I was offered
Speaker 2: because I couldn't leave the country and I couldn't leave
Speaker 2: my family, so I did a lot, you know, friends,
Speaker 2: was ten years, you guys was seven years. Like a
Speaker 2: lot of the projects I did in LA I did
Speaker 2: because I could be here and I could be with
Speaker 2: my family. Now I'm in a place where my kids
Speaker 2: are grown, where I travel all the time. I was
Speaker 2: gone all year last year doing a movie all over
Speaker 2: the world, and I travel a lot, and I work
Speaker 2: for people who do movies out of the country a lot,
Speaker 2: and I just want to keep working for people that
Speaker 2: I adore, you know, where it's like this last project,
Speaker 2: you know, I've known them, Oh my god. Well, I
Speaker 2: work for John Daily and Jonathan Goldstein, who are partners
Speaker 2: writing and directing partners. And John Daly was my little
Speaker 2: boy on Prigs and Geeks, you know, came up to
Speaker 2: my chin and now I was six foot four, gorgeous, fabulous,
Speaker 2: brilliant director, writer. And Jonathan Goldstein, who's his partner, grew
Speaker 2: up in Beechwood, Ohio, which is where I'm from. So
Speaker 2: working for these boys and their families and their children,
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know, it's not like working. It's
Speaker 2: like going off with your family, you know, and being
Speaker 2: together and having fun. And yeah, it's pretty amazing, you know,
Speaker 2: I still manage to do Shabbat every Friday night, no
Speaker 2: matter where I am in the world, and with crews
Speaker 2: of thirty five people, some of whom are no One's Jewish,
Speaker 2: and everybody is just loving the idea of coming together
Speaker 2: once a week to have a moment, you know, And
Speaker 2: so that's kind of my priority. And in terms of
Speaker 2: stories that I want to tell, you know, I'd love
Speaker 2: to do an opera. I'd love to do a Broadway show,
Speaker 2: but it's probably not going to happen at this point
Speaker 2: in my life. And I think that's okay. I am
Speaker 2: going to write a book, which I've started, just about
Speaker 2: the creative aspect of my careers, all three of them,
Speaker 2: and you know, sort of what it takes to sort
Speaker 2: of move through the creative process and all of these
Speaker 2: things and making these life changes that you have to
Speaker 2: make in order to sort of get where you need
Speaker 2: to be. So, but you know, New Girl was it
Speaker 2: was a very special time. And I had a really
Speaker 2: wonderful relationship with Zoe as well. And she's another person
Speaker 2: I haven't seen since then, which is crazy. And yeah,
Speaker 2: and there was a time, you know, when we would
Speaker 2: go to synagogue together, all right, Remember yeah, kids, when
Speaker 2: the kids were little. Yeah, so yeah, so life. You know,
Speaker 2: everybody has their own own journey, and I just hope
Speaker 2: that everybody is, you know, happy and healthy and has
Speaker 2: nice long futures and careers to look forward to.
Speaker 1: You always were the wisest woman. I feel like walking
Speaker 1: around our set and I remember our fittings always gave
Speaker 1: me such a sense. I always said, you remind me
Speaker 1: like a lot of my dad in the sense my
Speaker 1: dad's Buddhist and he has such a sage and a teacher,
Speaker 1: and it's the way he talks about what's important, what's success,
Speaker 1: what truly faills our cup. And you know, my dad
Speaker 1: was living in another country and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: by myself. I had no family here in La I remember,
Speaker 1: and I really just would treasure those conversations we would
Speaker 1: have because those weren't all the conversations that were being
Speaker 1: had about what was important or energy was being given
Speaker 1: on what's important. And even now talking about like what
Speaker 1: your you know, your career going forward, what the priority
Speaker 1: is of what's filling your cup, takes me back to
Speaker 1: those days in the trailer of like what we would
Speaker 1: really talk about and what was really important, which made
Speaker 1: then everything else we were doing, which was like trying
Speaker 1: on nine pairs of jeans feel fun.
Speaker 2: I know, we had very deep conversations while you were
Speaker 2: like putting shirts on and off, and Kathy was taking
Speaker 2: pictures and you and I were just like really into it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we had some yea, we got into it. And I
Speaker 2: cherish those times together too, because for me, that's really important.
Speaker 2: And if you can have those kind of conversations in
Speaker 2: the middle of a day of doing a sitcom, it's
Speaker 2: pretty fabulous.
Speaker 1: Debra. I loved you then, I love you now. I
Speaker 1: am so grateful that this magical show somehow has kept
Speaker 1: us connected and brought us together to talk. I can't
Speaker 1: wait for your book. When your book comes out, please
Speaker 1: come and talk on this show and Lamour and we'll
Speaker 1: be here, probably knowing Lamour in a full bird shirt,
Speaker 1: sunglasses and trying to make everybody laugh. I love you,
Speaker 1: Thank you for your time, and thank you for everything
Speaker 1: you did on this show. We appreciate you so deeply.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Love you, Hannah