1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: The stories were sharing this season touch on different kinds 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: of trauma. Please take care of yourself while you listen. 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Chad and Jennifer Bracken are the lead plaintiffs in the 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: big federal lawsuit we're following this season, but they're not 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: the only ones. Because of where Chad and Jennifer live, 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: they provided the perfect venue for the case, but their 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: lawyer still needed the perfect plaintiffs, foster parents, who, unlike 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: the Brakeens, didn't have an easy time getting around Iqua, 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: and he found them and Danielle and Jason Clifford. Danielle 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: and Jason met a dance class, a salsa dance class 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: at their church. Before they even got married. They talked 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: about adoption, so when they found out they couldn't have 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: children of their own, it felt like God's way of 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: telling them to adopt. Jason is white, Danielle has indigenous 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: ancestry from Canada, but doesn't identify herself as indigenous in 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: federal court documents. They knew about private and even international adoption, 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: but they wanted to help children in their own community, 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: so they decided to become foster to adapt parents where 19 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: they lived in Hannepin County, Minnesota, meaning they would foster 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: children with the hope of adopting them. At the same time, 21 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: a toddler who will call Piper, was growing up in Minneapolis, 22 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: the biggest city in Hannepin County. Piper was close with 23 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: her mom and her dad, but the person really raising 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: her was her grandma. 25 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: My name is Robin. 26 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: Robin is a citizen of White Earth Nation. We're just 27 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: using her first name to protect her family's privacy. 28 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: When she was first born, she came and lived with 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: me and my daughter. 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: And what was she like as a baby. 31 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: She was bubbly, sweet and funny. She was a good 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 2: little girl. I used to chase her around the kitchen, 33 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: into the living room and back and forth, and she 34 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: would laugh so hard. It was the happiest time of 35 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: my life. 36 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: In the spring of twenty fourteen, they were all living together, Robin, Piper, 37 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: Piper's mom, and sometimes dad, some other relatives to who 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: needed a place to stay. But they couldn't make rent. 39 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: They got evicted. Here's Robin. We've leeped out Piper's real 40 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: name to protect her privacy. 41 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: All of us had to leave, and we didn't know 42 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: where to go, what to do anything. My daughter, she 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 2: don't believe in shelters and stuff like that. I said, well, 44 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: I'll go there. I don't care. You know, this kid 45 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: can't be on the street like this. So she let 46 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: me have her and went down to Henne and we 47 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: were there half a day and comes five thirty at night, 48 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: she goes, we can't help you. I said, now, you're 49 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: just telling me this. I said why, She said, You've 50 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: got to prove that your biological grandmother. 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: Turned away from the shelter. Robin tried to find another 52 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: place to stay, but she ran out of options, so 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: she called Piper's dad and he took Piper. They agreed 54 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: once Robin found a safe place, he would bring Piper back, 55 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: but that never happened. On August seventh, twenty fourteen, around 56 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: six twenty in the morning, police got a call that 57 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: two people were spotted near an abandoned property in northern Minneapolis. 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: When they got there, they found four people in a 59 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: car with drugs and drug paraphernalia. It was Piper's mom 60 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: and dad, their friend, and Piper. Piper's parents went to 61 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: jail and Piper went into foster care. 62 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: That's when I got to call her. Next morning, I 63 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: was gonna go get her out, and I was going 64 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: to bring her home with me, and you know, whatever 65 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 2: it took, they wouldn't tell me anything. They wouldn't share 66 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: any information with me. You know, I don't I don't 67 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: know where she was placed. And they said that I 68 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: had no rights to her. I had no grandparents' rights. 69 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: At the time Piper was three years old. She spent 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: the next three years half her life in foster care. 71 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 1: You're listening to This Land, a podcast about the present 72 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: day struggle for Native rights from Crooked Media. I'm your host, 73 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: Rebecca and angele Goheen Dad t let Aeli Gayla, citizen 74 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: of Cherokee niche This season, we're following how a string 75 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: of custody battles over Native children became a federal lawsuit 76 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: that threatens everything from tribal sovereignty to civil rights. The 77 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: federal lawsuit, Brakin v. Holland actually includes three foster families. 78 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: All three say EQUA violated their constitutional rights when it 79 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: gave preference to a Native family over them. But here's 80 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: the thing. Two of those foster families, including the Brackens, 81 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: one custody. They already adopted the native kid, which brings 82 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: up one of the biggest questions in this case legally, 83 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: should it even exist. When you sue the federal government 84 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: to change a law, you have to prove two things 85 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: that the law harmed you, and second that the law 86 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: going away would fix that harm. For the Brakeenes, whether 87 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: Iqua stays or goes, their adoption of Antonio is final. 88 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: So according to the technical rules of civil procedure, they 89 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: kind of don't have a case. But that's where Danielle 90 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: and Jason Clifford come in. If they weren't part of 91 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: this lawsuit, it's possible the whole thing would have been 92 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: thrown out by now what happened after the break. In 93 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: most states, child welfare proceedings are sealed, but not in Minnesota. 94 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: I got Piper's entire case file in the mail on 95 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: a thumb drive and printed out three binders of documents. 96 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: I sat down and read every report, every court motion, 97 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: every affidavit, five days of testimony. That is how I know. 98 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: On August seventh, twenty fourteen, Piper entered foster care, and 99 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: five days later, her grandma sat down with Piper's social worker. 100 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: It was this woman's job to find a relative Piper 101 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: could stay with, placing kids with relatives or other adults 102 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: they know. Is widely considered a best practice in foster care. 103 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: It's actually the law in Minnesota because it's less traumatic 104 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: and disorienting than being placed with strangers, and kids who 105 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: stay with relatives are less likely to experience abuse or 106 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: neglect while they're in the system. Robin wanted to be 107 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: that relative for Piper. Less than a week after meeting 108 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: with Robin, that social worker called her back. 109 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: She goes, you don't qualify for it. I said, what 110 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: do you mean, I don't qualify for it? She goes, 111 00:07:59,240 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: it's your record. 112 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: Robin had a string of old convictions, mostly misdemeanors, and 113 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: a decade old Child Protective Services or CPS report from 114 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: when her daughter was a teen. In Minnesota, family members 115 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: with old criminal convictions can still get license, it takes 116 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: an extra step, but that social worker made no attempt 117 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: to do that for Robin. She didn't even let Robin 118 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: know it was an option. And here's the most important 119 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: detail about what happened to Robin. Her license was never 120 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: revoked or denied because she was discouraged from even applying. 121 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: My daughter. She even had people that were willing to 122 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: take good people. People in her family. They said that 123 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: they would help out. My sister said she would help out. 124 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: But they came and they turned down everybody. 125 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: Hennepin County turned down Robin's sister, Robin's roommate, family, friends, 126 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: and other relatives. The county told Piper's grandfather he wasn't 127 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: close enough with his granddaughter to be considered. 128 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: I know at times for me, I felt like giving up, 129 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: but something inside me told me not to. It was 130 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 2: just like my job in life to get her back home. 131 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: IQUA doesn't apply to every child with Native ancestry. It 132 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: only applies to children who are enrolled in a tribe 133 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: or eligible to enroll. Child welfare agencies are supposed to 134 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: provide information to the tribe, and the tribe decides whether 135 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: or not the case falls under IQUA. Early on, Hainnepin 136 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: County wrote to Robin's tribe to ask if Piper qualified. 137 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: White Earth Nation wrote back and said no. But Hennepin 138 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: County left out a really important detail, a detail that 139 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: later would change everything. We'll get to that, but for now, 140 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: what's important to know is the system making decisions for 141 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: Piper is not IQUA. It's foster care. To understand, how 142 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: foster care works. I called up Anita Fine Day. She 143 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: is also a citizen of White Earth Nation and works 144 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: at Casey Family Programs, a nonprofit working to improve and 145 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: ultimately prevent the need for foster care nationwide. 146 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: There are large racial disproportionality for children of color in 147 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 3: general in the child welfare system. 148 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: Nationally, the kids who are most likely to end up 149 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: in foster care are black and Native piper Is. 150 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: Both Native American children have a much higher incidence of removal, 151 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 3: of actually opening a case and removing the children. 152 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: In Hinnepin County, Native kids are nearly thirty five times 153 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: more likely than white kids to be removed from their homes. 154 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: It's not because there's a higher rate of abuse, there's 155 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: a higher rate of poverty. 156 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: You might be thinking, how is that possible that a 157 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: child is removed just because their family is poor. When 158 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: I started reporting on foster care, it shocked me. 159 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: The majority of children who are removed from the care 160 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 3: of their parents are removed for neglect, not abuse. Based 161 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: on neglect, and I think to a lot of people, 162 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 3: poverty a special extreme poverty looks like neglect. 163 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: In six states, over half of Native kids will be 164 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: the subject of a CPS investigation. Imagine being that Native parent. 165 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: Odds are CPS has knocked on your door or the 166 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: door of someone you know. 167 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 3: I have seen children remove from their homes because there 168 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: was no food. Rather than spend one hundred dollars and 169 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 3: buy food for that family, we'll spend thousands of dollars 170 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: paying for that child to live with strangers. 171 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: Since the nineteen seventies, when IQUA was passed, the number 172 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: of Native kids in foster care has gone up, not down. 173 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: In Minnesota, one third of Native children will enter foster 174 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: care before their eighteenth birthday. It's the same statistic that 175 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: shocked and horrified Congress when they passed the Indian Child 176 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: Welfare Act, and so, like Native children a generation before, 177 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: Piper became a statistic. In the summer of twenty sixteen, 178 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: Piper had been in foster care for two years. She 179 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: had been in and out of multiple homes. For a 180 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: brief period, she was reunited with her mom, but then 181 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: her mom relapsed and the county terminated the rights of 182 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 1: both parents after rejecting a list of relatives, one because 183 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: he didn't know his granddaughter well enough. Piper social worker 184 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: sat down with Danielle and Jason Clifford. She wanted to 185 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: make sure they were ready to adapt Piper. Here is 186 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: how Danielle described that meeting in corps read by an actor. 187 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 4: They wanted Piper did not have another move. She had 188 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 4: been in her shelter home for almost six months, and 189 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: they wanted her to be able to make her final 190 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 4: move into her forever home. So they were asking us, 191 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 4: like outright in that first meeting in our home, like 192 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 4: are you willing to be a forever resource for this child? 193 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: The Cliffords told that social worker, yes, they were interested 194 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: in adoption, and so Piper moved in with them. 195 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,479 Speaker 5: So we were told that there had been an extensive 196 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 5: relative search, and we were told that there was a 197 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 5: maternal grandmother who wanted Piper, but that she wasn't an 198 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 5: option for many reasons. 199 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,479 Speaker 1: When we reached out to the Cliffords for comment, Danielle 200 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: said they couldn't talk to us for legal reasons. Early 201 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: on in the custody dispute, the Cliffords made a Facebook 202 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: post that raised concerns about Piper's privacy, and a judge 203 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: placed them under a gag order the whole time Piper 204 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: had been in foster care. Robin had tried to maintain 205 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: a relationship with her granddaughter, but now the county said 206 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: that relationship should be cut off, and the Cliffords agreed. 207 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: They all said Robin had bad boundaries. Robin's biggest offense 208 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: was giving Piper a card from her mom, who Piper 209 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to have contact with. 210 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: She didn't have no physical contact, you know. I said, Oh, 211 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: that's so cute. You know, she'd probably be happy that 212 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: she got some from her mom. You know, I had 213 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: no idea. Nobody told me that no cards were to 214 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: be sent, you know. 215 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: But the card made everyone concerned about Robin and her 216 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: bad boundaries. The Cliffords argued it was in Piper's best 217 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: interest not to see her grandmother, and for almost a 218 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: year she didn't. 219 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 3: In Minnesota, when they terminate parnal rights, it's as if 220 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: the whole biological family is deceased. They cut off visitation 221 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: with aunts and uncles and grandparents. You don't even have 222 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: a right to see your brothers and sisters anymore. 223 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: But the social workers and the Cliffords didn't want Piper 224 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: to forget her family, so they put together a photobook 225 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: of Piper's relatives. She could see it anytime she asked. 226 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: One night at bedtime, it came up. Here's a journal 227 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: entry Danielle submitted to the court, read by an actor. 228 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 4: After the prayer, Piper responded with crying, saying she misses 229 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 4: her parents and is having hard time remembering them. Jason 230 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 4: acknowledged her pain and loss and said they could look 231 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 4: at pictures of her parents tomorrow. 232 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Robin hadn't given up. The same month Piper went 233 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: to live with the Cliffords, Robin walked into a nonprofit 234 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: serving Native families on the north side of town. 235 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: I kept going and then I went into Upper Midwest 236 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 2: on Broadway. My world changed when I walked through them doors. 237 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: They said that they could help me, and they did. 238 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: And Gertrude, she didn't stop until we got the help, 239 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: and I thank k yep. I almost lost. I was 240 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: really close to it. 241 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: The Upper Midwes American Indian Center did two things Hennepin 242 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: County hadn't. First, they helped Robin apply for a foster license. 243 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: Robin's old convictions had already been expunged, but because of 244 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: a clerical error, one still popped up. Upper Midwest made 245 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: a few phone calls, ironed it out and once all 246 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: the paperwork got turned in, Robin was approved. And second 247 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: they shared that important detail with Robin's tribe. The detail 248 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: was Robin that form letter Hennepin County sent to White 249 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: Earth didn't mention that a White Earth citizen was seeking 250 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: custody of her grandchild. That wasn't illegal on Hennepin County's part. 251 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: They just did the bare minimum. Once White Earth learned 252 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: that one of their citizens was fighting to keep her grandchild, 253 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: they intervened. And that's when everything changed. That's because because 254 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: now Piper's case was an equa case. 255 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: Oh, it was great. It was the best thing that 256 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: ever happened. 257 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: New social workers were assigned to the case. Social workers 258 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: trained in Iqua, and suddenly the same county that had 259 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: been fighting Robin for years started supporting her. Wide Earth Nation, 260 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: Hennepin County and Robin all agreed that Robin should adopt Piper, 261 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: but Danielle and Jason Clifford did not. They sued Hennepin 262 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: County and Robin's adoption of Piper was put on hold. 263 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 2: I know she was with the Cliffords. They had her 264 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 2: for a year and a half and they were fighting 265 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: the equala and. 266 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: They wouldn't stop, and the fight got ugly more after 267 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: the break. When the case finally went to trial, it 268 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: was an emotional five days. Reading through the testimony, it 269 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: feels like a custody dispute between divorced parents, and that 270 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: thing that always happens in conflict happened here. Details that 271 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: normally would be small get magnified, like the fact that 272 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: Robin's car was in the shop, or that she had arthritis. 273 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: How could she possibly keep up with an active child? 274 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: But the detail that came up over and over was 275 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: Piper's weight. At the time Piper was seven, the Cliffords thought, 276 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: since she moved back in with her grandma, she looked heavier. 277 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: Here's Jason Clifford's testimony, also read by an actor. 278 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 6: She was excited to see us, shocking to see how 279 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 6: much weight she had already gained in a short period 280 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 6: of time in her dance lietard. 281 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: It was very clear Jason was describing seeing Piper for 282 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: the first time in six months at our dance recital. 283 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: Piper's weight was one reason why the Cliffords said they 284 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: were a better home because, unlike Robin, they managed it. 285 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,959 Speaker 6: We provided information to miss about diet and the reasons 286 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 6: why it was important and it was not followed. We 287 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 6: now can visually see that it was not followed. 288 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: When Robin testified, she was asked about Piper's weight, she 289 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: talked about Piper's recent checkup. The doctor said she was 290 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: a healthy kid. When Family Court ruled on Piper's case, 291 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: she had lived with her grandmother for four of the 292 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: seven years of her life. She had lived with the 293 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: Cliffords for eighteen months, but the Clifford's and their lord 294 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: argued and are still arguing, the Cliffords are the only 295 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: stable home Piper has ever known. The Family Court judge 296 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: did not agree. She ruled in Robin's favor. Robin won. 297 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: At the end of her twenty three page decision, Judge 298 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: Angela Wilms wrote that if Wide Earth had come forward sooner, 299 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: or if the department had seriously considered Robin as a placement, 300 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: none of this would have happened. But instead, Piper has 301 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: quote been traumatized by our system due to numerous failed placements, 302 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: and that Robin has quote been equally traumatized by the 303 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: same system that for years ignored her as a polacement 304 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: option for her granddaughter and the Cliffords have lost a 305 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: child whom they loved and considered their own. The Cliffords 306 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: appealed that decision all the way to the Minnesota State 307 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, but it didn't work. Finally, about a year 308 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: ago last June, Robin adopted Piper. 309 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 7: We made a drum. 310 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: She's gonna go give it. She wants to show you. 311 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 2: She's starting to speak with Jibwe language. I got words 312 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: up on the wall there, you know. I wrote them 313 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 2: down for her and we'll say them together. You know, 314 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 2: did you find your drum our drum? I thought it 315 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 2: was on the wall. 316 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 7: So in this giant handle right here in the back, 317 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 7: we put a rock in there, and this drum is 318 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 7: made of deer skin. And yeah, well she was making 319 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 7: it and I went to her and helped her finish it, 320 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 7: and we lost it there to dry, and it has 321 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 7: both of our names on it. 322 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: In Robin's apartment. The pictures of Piper's family aren't in 323 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: the special book she can see when she asks. They're 324 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: like pictures in most family homes. They're up on the wall. 325 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: Who's this? This is a baby? It's not Wait, no. 326 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 7: That's that's mommy as a baby. 327 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 2: Oh, that's right, that's my daughter. That's me as a. 328 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 7: Baby with my mom. That's my mom, me as a baby. 329 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 4: It's me. 330 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 7: And wait, who's that? Oh looks nothing like me? But okay, 331 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 7: best grandma us again, that's my mom. 332 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: That's us again. I swear, I pray every day that 333 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: I can live long enough, you know, to keep going 334 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: for her. I wanted to be successful because she's so 335 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: smart down the road, you know, if she wants to 336 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: go to school, she can go to college and becomes somebody. Yeah, 337 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: that's what my prayers are for her. 338 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: We can get caught up and whether the Cliffords or 339 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: Robin are the better home for Piper, but that's missing 340 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: the point. Robin and the Cliffords are not divorced parents. 341 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: Robin is Piper's grandmother and has been her primary caregiver 342 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: for most of her life, and the Cliffords were Piper's 343 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: foster parents, and despite all the inappropriate promises made to them, 344 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: fostering a child by definition, is temporary. In twenty twenty, 345 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: the Cliffords did adopt a child two actually twin boys 346 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: from Columbia, but they're still in federal court fighting IQUA 347 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: because they say not being able to adopt Piper violated 348 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: their constitutional rights. In the big federal lawsuit, the one 349 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: the Brakins started and the Cliffords joined, the courts got 350 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: some of their facts wrong. In early court filings, the 351 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: Cliffords claimed that Hennepin County revoked Robin's foster license, but 352 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: that never happened. The Cliffords also implied that Robin was 353 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: waiting to adopt Piper, leaving Piper in limbo, but Robin's 354 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: adoption of if Piper was put on hold because the 355 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: Clifford sued Hennepin County. We wanted to ask Danielle and 356 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: Jason Clifford directly why they appear to have submitted wrong 357 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: and misleading information to federal court, but because of that 358 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: gag order, they couldn't talk to us. Danielle did put 359 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: her dad on the phone, who she said was very 360 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: familiar with the case. He told us that we shouldn't 361 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: trust what we read in court documents because those court 362 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: documents may have been altered. The factual errors that first 363 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: appeared in documents submitted by the Cliffords got repeated and exaggerated. 364 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: When that Texas judge we talked about last episode declared 365 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: iqua unconstitutional, and by the time the case got to 366 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: an appeals court, whole chunks of the decision were based 367 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: on information that was just wrong, including that big question 368 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: of whether or not this lawsuit should exist. That's what's 369 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 1: so weird about this case. The whole strategy is telling 370 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: these stories how IQUA ripped Native children from the only 371 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: homes they have ever known. But in federal court, those 372 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: stories have drifted further and further from the truth. When 373 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: I look at Piper's case, it doesn't tell the story 374 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: of why we should get rid of IQUA. To me, 375 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: it shows why IQUA is still needed, because the system 376 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: is still biased against Native families, especially Native families who 377 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: are poor. What happened to Piper while she was in 378 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: foster care was traumatic and wrong. She spent years bouncing 379 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: between homes without stability. But during those years, her case 380 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: didn't fall under IQUA. It fell under Hennepin County foster care. 381 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: At the same time Piper was stuck in the system, 382 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: Hennepin County got sued for a foster care system that 383 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: was quote underfunded, erratic, and negligent. Over eighty percent of 384 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: Hennepin County foster kids spent more than two years in 385 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: the system without a permanent home, so Piper's story isn't 386 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: an outlier. It was the norm in Texas. Foster care, 387 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: where Antonio's case took place, is even worse. Federal courts 388 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: found physical and sexual abuse of foster children in Texas 389 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: was common. Texas had no system for tracking child on 390 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: child abuse, so older children with the history of committing 391 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: sexual abuse were being placed in the same homes and 392 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: even the same bedrooms as younger children. Children and foster 393 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: care are experiencing unspeakable harm, but abuse, neglect, or even 394 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: the sheer lack of resources aren't with these plaintiffs decided 395 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: to focus on. Instead, they focused on the idea that 396 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: IQUA makes it harder for non native foster parents to 397 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: adopt Native kids. To see if IQUA was harming Native kids, 398 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: I got data from Hennepin County. They gave me a 399 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: spreadsheet showing what's happened to foster kids who fall under 400 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: IQUA and those who don't for the past three years. 401 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: It turns out EQUA kids are less likely to be 402 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: stuck in the system until they turn eighteen, and they 403 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: are far more likely to be adopted by a relative 404 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: and across the board. Child welfare experts say that kids 405 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: do better with relatives, which is why they widely agree 406 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: IQUA is a great law. But there's another group of 407 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: people who don't like IQUA, adoption attorneys. They've been fighting 408 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: IQUA longer than anyone else. They don't like any laws 409 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: that regulate adoption, really because they want more children to 410 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: be available for adoption, not less. Next time on this land. 411 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 2: There are more people looking to adopt than there are children. 412 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 2: There's clearly a splaining demand problem. 413 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: Do you meet a lot of people who were adopted 414 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: out after the passage of IQUA. 415 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, there's a shitload of people who are adopt 416 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 8: It's still happening. Shoot, who knows how many today? Just today. 417 00:31:45,800 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 8: We're a commodity today, y'all. 418 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 7: Hey, y'all, Hey, Hey, y'all, Hey Hi. 419 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: This Land is reported, written and hosted by me Rebecca 420 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: Nagle Goheen, citizen of Cherokee Nation. Additional reporting this season 421 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: from Maddie Stone, Martha troyan citizen of o b Chika 422 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: Kong lack Suel First Nation, and Amy Westervelt from Cricket Media. 423 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Jon Favreau, Sarah geismer Lyra Smith 424 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: and Katie Long, with special thanks to Alison Falsetta from 425 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: Critical Frequency. Our managing producer is Amy Westervelt. Our senior 426 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: producer is Sarah Ventry, and our story editor is Braca Murphy. 427 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: Additional editing from Martha Troyan and Polly Denette Claw who 428 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: is Deney. Sound design by Lyras Smith, Mark Bush and 429 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: Charlotte Landis. Original score composed by Jared Tate, citizen of 430 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: Chikistan Nation. Our outra song is an honor song for adoptees, 431 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: written and sung by Jerry Dearly, who is Oglala Lakota. 432 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: Our fact checker is wou dan Yan. Our First Amendment 433 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: Attorney is James Wheaton, founder of the First Amendment Project podcast. 434 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: Art by Kelly Gonzalez, citizen of Cherokee Nation. Additional reporting 435 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: from producer Alison Herrera, who is Whole Loan selenin Additional 436 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: things for this episode to Judge Bruce Manning, Shana King, 437 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: citizen of Mandan Hidatsa and Rikarad Nation, and Justice Anne 438 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: mckeek descendant of White Earth Nation. Jason Clifford's testimony was 439 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: read by Dan Schwartz. If you're enjoying the show, Please rate, review, 440 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: and subscribe. It helps more people find us, and please 441 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: share it with your friends. If you have a tip 442 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: or information to share related to our reporting, you can 443 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: do that secure, curly and anonymously through our secure drop. 444 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: You can find a link in the show notes. This 445 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: season of this Land touches on different forms of family, childhood, 446 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: and racial trauma. If you feel like you could use support, 447 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: please check our show notes or website this landpodcast dot 448 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: com to find resources for adoptees and survivors of childhood trauma, abuse, 449 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: foster care, and boarding schools.