1 00:00:09,664 --> 00:00:13,104 Speaker 1: Mission Implausible is now something you can watch. Just go 2 00:00:13,144 --> 00:00:16,823 Speaker 1: to YouTube and search Mission Implausible podcasts or click on 3 00:00:16,864 --> 00:00:20,864 Speaker 1: the link to our channel. In our show notes, I'm 4 00:00:20,904 --> 00:00:22,064 Speaker 1: John Cipher. 5 00:00:21,664 --> 00:00:22,784 Speaker 2: And I'm Jerry O'Shea. 6 00:00:23,264 --> 00:00:26,544 Speaker 3: We have over sixty years of experience as clandestine officers 7 00:00:26,624 --> 00:00:29,544 Speaker 3: in the CIA, serving in high risk areas all around 8 00:00:29,544 --> 00:00:30,264 Speaker 3: the world, and. 9 00:00:30,304 --> 00:00:34,504 Speaker 2: Part of our job was creating conspiracies to deceive our adversaries. 10 00:00:34,784 --> 00:00:37,504 Speaker 3: Now we're going to use that experience to investigate the 11 00:00:37,504 --> 00:00:40,424 Speaker 3: conspiracy theories everyone's talking about as well as some of 12 00:00:40,464 --> 00:00:41,224 Speaker 3: you may not have heard. 13 00:00:41,304 --> 00:00:43,584 Speaker 2: Could they be true or are we being manipulated? 14 00:00:43,664 --> 00:00:46,263 Speaker 3: We'll find out now on Mission Implausible. 15 00:00:50,664 --> 00:00:53,703 Speaker 2: We're really pleased to have on the show today. Jordan Holmes, 16 00:00:54,304 --> 00:01:00,824 Speaker 2: very accomplished Chicago in so. He's a recovering comedian, an author. 17 00:01:01,224 --> 00:01:04,703 Speaker 2: You've done a great book and a quiet part Out Loud, 18 00:01:04,904 --> 00:01:08,344 Speaker 2: and you're a successful podcaster. You've got over a thousand 19 00:01:08,464 --> 00:01:12,544 Speaker 2: episodes Right of Knowledge Fights having to Dupe and Alex 20 00:01:12,624 --> 00:01:16,063 Speaker 2: Jones and conspiracy theories. And I hope you don't mind 21 00:01:16,104 --> 00:01:19,664 Speaker 2: if I also throw in I understand that you grew up, 22 00:01:19,783 --> 00:01:22,383 Speaker 2: at least for a while in a cult like setting. 23 00:01:22,544 --> 00:01:25,023 Speaker 4: My birth was actually prosphesied. 24 00:01:25,344 --> 00:01:26,144 Speaker 2: Let's start with that. 25 00:01:26,464 --> 00:01:30,703 Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah, So when I was born, my folks and 26 00:01:30,824 --> 00:01:33,744 Speaker 4: their family had a while back, they had joined this 27 00:01:33,944 --> 00:01:37,624 Speaker 4: Bible study when they were in college in Champagne, Illinois, 28 00:01:37,664 --> 00:01:40,904 Speaker 4: and it was totally normal, just a bunch of kids 29 00:01:41,503 --> 00:01:44,424 Speaker 4: learning about the Lord, that kind of thing. But then, 30 00:01:44,544 --> 00:01:47,424 Speaker 4: like any small group of people with a charismatic leader, 31 00:01:47,664 --> 00:01:49,784 Speaker 4: it started getting weird. I don't know if you guys, 32 00:01:49,944 --> 00:01:51,864 Speaker 4: like it would be like if you're in a situation 33 00:01:52,624 --> 00:01:55,624 Speaker 4: where somebody's been running things and they have a cause 34 00:01:55,704 --> 00:01:57,864 Speaker 4: that's larger than you, so it convinces you to do 35 00:01:57,944 --> 00:02:01,584 Speaker 4: shit that you would never otherwise do. So what will 36 00:02:01,624 --> 00:02:04,824 Speaker 4: happen is they'll get together and they just kind of 37 00:02:04,864 --> 00:02:08,504 Speaker 4: have this recursive group thing. And then around seven years later, 38 00:02:08,984 --> 00:02:11,304 Speaker 4: I was set to be born in April, and the 39 00:02:11,424 --> 00:02:14,624 Speaker 4: leader of this cult had prophesied that a child would 40 00:02:14,624 --> 00:02:18,624 Speaker 4: be born in May with the name Jordan Benea, and 41 00:02:18,664 --> 00:02:21,544 Speaker 4: then I was three weeks late. Was this because of 42 00:02:21,584 --> 00:02:24,464 Speaker 4: the Lord or was it because my mom needed to 43 00:02:24,464 --> 00:02:26,784 Speaker 4: have a natural birth because of the Lord and had 44 00:02:26,784 --> 00:02:31,144 Speaker 4: given two c sections prior to that. Who knows science, Jesus? 45 00:02:31,304 --> 00:02:33,784 Speaker 4: So then yeah, so I was moved into May, they 46 00:02:33,944 --> 00:02:36,624 Speaker 4: changed my name, and I became the chosen one. 47 00:02:37,024 --> 00:02:39,104 Speaker 3: Let me start asking, because in recent years you've been 48 00:02:39,104 --> 00:02:40,904 Speaker 3: spending a lot of time on this podcast, which is brilliant, 49 00:02:40,944 --> 00:02:44,544 Speaker 3: by the way, about Alex Jones. And Alex Jones play 50 00:02:44,584 --> 00:02:47,864 Speaker 3: is actually quite a large role in society's days because 51 00:02:47,864 --> 00:02:50,544 Speaker 3: it fits into some of the key sort of flows 52 00:02:50,584 --> 00:02:54,584 Speaker 3: of our politics nowadays. So I want to ask eventually 53 00:02:54,624 --> 00:02:56,504 Speaker 3: how you got into it. But let's start with Alex Jones. 54 00:02:56,624 --> 00:02:58,944 Speaker 3: Tell me where did he come from? How did he 55 00:02:59,024 --> 00:03:00,544 Speaker 3: become what he is today? 56 00:03:00,784 --> 00:03:05,104 Speaker 4: He started actually in Austin, Texas on a local access 57 00:03:05,224 --> 00:03:08,824 Speaker 4: channel because his dad bought him slot on the radio. 58 00:03:09,544 --> 00:03:13,024 Speaker 4: His dad's a really successful dentist, and at the very beginning, 59 00:03:13,304 --> 00:03:16,264 Speaker 4: his dad sponsored a show so Alex Jones could have 60 00:03:16,264 --> 00:03:18,984 Speaker 4: a show. So everything that he's ever done is purely 61 00:03:19,024 --> 00:03:22,024 Speaker 4: because his dad has taken care of him from the jump. 62 00:03:22,224 --> 00:03:26,384 Speaker 4: And then over time he just started bullhorning places, just 63 00:03:26,424 --> 00:03:31,584 Speaker 4: started getting in people's faces, yelling about stuff. Then Waco happens, 64 00:03:32,024 --> 00:03:34,504 Speaker 4: which is supposedly the radicalizing thing. 65 00:03:34,624 --> 00:03:36,784 Speaker 3: I think that radicalized a lot of people. Frankly. 66 00:03:37,224 --> 00:03:40,384 Speaker 4: I mean, listen, if a government agency rolls a tank 67 00:03:40,464 --> 00:03:43,624 Speaker 4: up on your lawn. It's probably going to radicalize some people. 68 00:03:43,984 --> 00:03:46,704 Speaker 4: That'll happen. So he does that, and then he just 69 00:03:46,704 --> 00:03:50,584 Speaker 4: starts screaming, and then he catches some heat in the 70 00:03:50,704 --> 00:03:55,944 Speaker 4: invisible community. And then it was really when around twenty thirteen, 71 00:03:55,984 --> 00:03:58,864 Speaker 4: it was really when the Sandy Hook stuff happened that 72 00:03:59,384 --> 00:04:01,024 Speaker 4: his popularity exploded. 73 00:04:01,144 --> 00:04:04,744 Speaker 2: My understanding is that Alex Jones became radicalized when he 74 00:04:04,824 --> 00:04:08,024 Speaker 2: got involved with some of the John Birch Society stuff. 75 00:04:08,144 --> 00:04:11,624 Speaker 2: Right none dare call it tree season. That John birt Society, 76 00:04:11,704 --> 00:04:15,304 Speaker 2: of course, was founded by this guy, Robert Welch, who 77 00:04:15,384 --> 00:04:19,424 Speaker 2: made all his money off of Sugar Daddies. Candidate the 78 00:04:19,584 --> 00:04:24,383 Speaker 2: Candymaker and Alex jones father is a dentist coincidence. I 79 00:04:24,424 --> 00:04:25,224 Speaker 2: don't believe him. 80 00:04:25,264 --> 00:04:27,704 Speaker 4: Well, here's the interesting thing about that, though, is that 81 00:04:27,984 --> 00:04:31,504 Speaker 4: his legend has it that his dad worked for the CIA. 82 00:04:31,623 --> 00:04:34,424 Speaker 4: He was recruited into the CIA when he was in 83 00:04:34,503 --> 00:04:37,943 Speaker 4: college because he was the smartest boy in Texas. So 84 00:04:38,104 --> 00:04:43,064 Speaker 4: the timeline of Alex Jones's dad is at around eighteen 85 00:04:43,183 --> 00:04:47,023 Speaker 4: or so or maybe thirteen, depending on the day, he 86 00:04:47,144 --> 00:04:51,583 Speaker 4: was recruited into a top secret CIA program and then 87 00:04:52,183 --> 00:04:54,743 Speaker 4: became a sleeper agent and then later on apparently just 88 00:04:54,743 --> 00:04:59,143 Speaker 4: became a dentist to regular CIA agents. So from them 89 00:04:59,264 --> 00:05:02,263 Speaker 4: he learned all of the secrets that the CIA, because 90 00:05:02,264 --> 00:05:05,263 Speaker 4: you know you're when you're working on a CIA guy's teeth, 91 00:05:05,303 --> 00:05:07,823 Speaker 4: He's like, ah, are we killed the people? You know? 92 00:05:07,904 --> 00:05:09,664 Speaker 4: Like that? That's about how we're. 93 00:05:09,584 --> 00:05:11,304 Speaker 3: I must have never made it to the place where 94 00:05:11,344 --> 00:05:13,823 Speaker 3: we get the real information, cause see, I don't remember 95 00:05:13,823 --> 00:05:16,663 Speaker 3: any dentists or anybody who was thirteen or even eighteen working. 96 00:05:16,823 --> 00:05:20,303 Speaker 4: He was the doogie houser kind of situation. But so 97 00:05:20,823 --> 00:05:24,704 Speaker 4: Alex himself, he was raised in a John Birch house. 98 00:05:25,144 --> 00:05:28,743 Speaker 4: They were already John Birch society people. So before he 99 00:05:28,863 --> 00:05:32,104 Speaker 4: even heard about none dare call it a conspiracy or 100 00:05:32,584 --> 00:05:36,143 Speaker 4: behold a pale horse Bill Cooper's book, he was already 101 00:05:36,224 --> 00:05:39,183 Speaker 4: inundated with black people are comedies just because they want 102 00:05:39,183 --> 00:05:41,104 Speaker 4: to eat, you know, that kind of stuff. He was 103 00:05:41,144 --> 00:05:41,703 Speaker 4: already there. 104 00:05:42,264 --> 00:05:45,704 Speaker 2: So just for the audience, he raised the name Cooper. 105 00:05:45,784 --> 00:05:48,384 Speaker 2: He's one of my favorite conspiracy theorists. I just to 106 00:05:48,503 --> 00:05:51,303 Speaker 2: make sure it got it right, according to Cooper, which 107 00:05:51,344 --> 00:05:53,743 Speaker 2: of course is what Alex Jones is. Where his DNA 108 00:05:53,863 --> 00:05:56,384 Speaker 2: comes from. If I got this right, there was a 109 00:05:56,503 --> 00:06:05,303 Speaker 2: treaty signed between President Eisenhower and extraterrestrials, and extraterrestrials agreed 110 00:06:05,584 --> 00:06:08,384 Speaker 2: to give Eisenhower in the US, and I guess the 111 00:06:08,424 --> 00:06:13,743 Speaker 2: CIA at advanced technology in exchange for being allowed to 112 00:06:13,943 --> 00:06:17,263 Speaker 2: kidnap people for experiments. 113 00:06:17,544 --> 00:06:19,703 Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely so. 114 00:06:19,823 --> 00:06:23,584 Speaker 2: Young Alex Jones, this is what he's grown up with. 115 00:06:23,984 --> 00:06:26,823 Speaker 2: So the conspiracy theories that we'll talk about later with 116 00:06:26,904 --> 00:06:30,503 Speaker 2: Alex Jones, basically he's bringing these up from the crib, right, 117 00:06:30,664 --> 00:06:32,024 Speaker 2: he's being inundated with this. 118 00:06:32,264 --> 00:06:35,104 Speaker 4: He was definitely interested in Bill Cooper and then became 119 00:06:35,183 --> 00:06:38,623 Speaker 4: his contemporary by stealing everything that Bill Cooper did but 120 00:06:38,784 --> 00:06:41,384 Speaker 4: doing it better or at least in a way more 121 00:06:41,544 --> 00:06:45,703 Speaker 4: entertaining way. Bill Cooper was himself kind of a thief 122 00:06:45,743 --> 00:06:50,743 Speaker 4: where he would just read almost directly from books and 123 00:06:50,784 --> 00:06:53,704 Speaker 4: then change a word or two, like a plagiarists in college, 124 00:06:53,823 --> 00:06:55,903 Speaker 4: that kind of thing where you kind of alter the 125 00:06:55,943 --> 00:06:58,224 Speaker 4: sentence structure a little bit and you're like, ah, nobody 126 00:06:58,264 --> 00:07:00,904 Speaker 4: will ever know. So all of these guys have been 127 00:07:00,904 --> 00:07:03,743 Speaker 4: frauds from the beginning. Here's the thing about that, though, 128 00:07:04,224 --> 00:07:06,063 Speaker 4: is that if you want to talk about why that 129 00:07:06,104 --> 00:07:10,304 Speaker 4: stuff works. It's you, guys, like it is because of 130 00:07:11,224 --> 00:07:16,224 Speaker 4: the reality of Oh, the CIA overthrows iron. That's why 131 00:07:16,264 --> 00:07:19,384 Speaker 4: you can believe that Eisenhower would do shit like that, 132 00:07:19,864 --> 00:07:22,304 Speaker 4: because it does happen from time to time. 133 00:07:22,744 --> 00:07:24,824 Speaker 3: Was he was Alex Jones always like this was this 134 00:07:24,984 --> 00:07:29,184 Speaker 3: early stick the same as his stick now? And if not, 135 00:07:29,544 --> 00:07:32,984 Speaker 3: how did it change? How has he gotten, for lack 136 00:07:33,024 --> 00:07:34,264 Speaker 3: of a better word, better at it. 137 00:07:34,384 --> 00:07:36,344 Speaker 4: The fun part about that is that he has actually 138 00:07:36,344 --> 00:07:39,864 Speaker 4: gotten way worse like over time, his abilities have dropped. 139 00:07:40,104 --> 00:07:43,184 Speaker 4: I think one of the things about these guys, this 140 00:07:43,304 --> 00:07:47,024 Speaker 4: kind of ecosystem, is that when you're young and hungry, 141 00:07:47,464 --> 00:07:50,944 Speaker 4: you're struggling so hard and you're fighting so hard that 142 00:07:51,024 --> 00:07:53,264 Speaker 4: you've got to have some sort of excitement to you. 143 00:07:53,264 --> 00:07:56,143 Speaker 4: You gotta have a build. But then once you get established, 144 00:07:56,424 --> 00:07:59,624 Speaker 4: because part of what you're doing is essentially mind controlling 145 00:07:59,664 --> 00:08:03,464 Speaker 4: people into believing all kinds of nonsense what you've been established, 146 00:08:03,504 --> 00:08:06,864 Speaker 4: and they're caught up in your cult. They're not going anywhere, 147 00:08:07,264 --> 00:08:09,104 Speaker 4: so you don't really have to work as hard to 148 00:08:09,344 --> 00:08:12,344 Speaker 4: ring retain them. You just keep doing your thing and 149 00:08:12,384 --> 00:08:15,664 Speaker 4: they'll stick around. So they tend to have that trajectory 150 00:08:15,704 --> 00:08:19,424 Speaker 4: of a meteoric rise, a plateau, and then a slow 151 00:08:19,584 --> 00:08:21,104 Speaker 4: glide down into obscurity. 152 00:08:21,344 --> 00:08:23,744 Speaker 2: So this is some of this is like really ugly 153 00:08:23,904 --> 00:08:29,504 Speaker 2: serious shit. So Alex Jones pushes he's making money off 154 00:08:29,544 --> 00:08:33,304 Speaker 2: of people's grief and tragedy. And I just got a 155 00:08:33,304 --> 00:08:35,824 Speaker 2: little list here of the shit that he's making money 156 00:08:35,864 --> 00:08:39,344 Speaker 2: off of. The Sandy Hook murders of twenty little kids, right, 157 00:08:39,944 --> 00:08:46,104 Speaker 2: Oklahoma City bombing, one hundreds killed, September eleventh, Trutherism, stop 158 00:08:46,184 --> 00:08:51,304 Speaker 2: the steal our democracy, Parkland High School shooting, Charleston's shooting. 159 00:08:51,463 --> 00:08:54,344 Speaker 2: I could go on and on. People are being murdered 160 00:08:54,463 --> 00:08:58,744 Speaker 2: and he's clearly telling lies and conspiracies about this, which 161 00:08:58,784 --> 00:08:59,944 Speaker 2: is his First Amendment rights. 162 00:09:00,304 --> 00:09:01,983 Speaker 3: Let me just add to that quick. Yes, this is 163 00:09:02,103 --> 00:09:04,904 Speaker 3: pro wrestling. Does he know better? Is this a yeah? 164 00:09:04,904 --> 00:09:05,744 Speaker 2: There we go, scammer? 165 00:09:05,824 --> 00:09:06,664 Speaker 3: Does he believe this shit? 166 00:09:07,343 --> 00:09:08,064 Speaker 2: Nuts or evil? 167 00:09:08,343 --> 00:09:11,583 Speaker 4: Here's the problem with him. Once you reach a certain level, right, 168 00:09:12,144 --> 00:09:15,984 Speaker 4: it's if you believe this stuff, you're fucking nuts. Right, 169 00:09:16,343 --> 00:09:19,264 Speaker 4: But if you're willing to say this stuff, you're also 170 00:09:19,424 --> 00:09:23,223 Speaker 4: fucking nuts. So what level of nuts are we talking about? 171 00:09:23,223 --> 00:09:25,144 Speaker 4: Where do you want to come from? Does he believe 172 00:09:25,184 --> 00:09:28,304 Speaker 4: this shit. Does it matter? Does it make him less 173 00:09:28,463 --> 00:09:31,624 Speaker 4: or more crazy to be lying or to be believing? 174 00:09:31,984 --> 00:09:35,024 Speaker 3: There is some level of skill, Like the guy has 175 00:09:35,024 --> 00:09:37,743 Speaker 3: made millions of ut billions millions of dollars something. Sure, 176 00:09:37,984 --> 00:09:41,144 Speaker 3: he's detestable in every possible way, but he's successful. There's 177 00:09:41,144 --> 00:09:42,744 Speaker 3: probably a lot of people who would like to be 178 00:09:42,944 --> 00:09:45,544 Speaker 3: like him, who are also awful, but there's something about 179 00:09:45,624 --> 00:09:46,904 Speaker 3: him that's allowed him to succeed. 180 00:09:47,223 --> 00:09:49,904 Speaker 4: So what these guys are and there are again, let's 181 00:09:49,944 --> 00:09:53,064 Speaker 4: describe it as an ecosystem like Alex Jones and Tucker 182 00:09:53,103 --> 00:09:57,103 Speaker 4: Carlson and whatever Fox News analysts are up there tonight, 183 00:09:57,264 --> 00:10:01,064 Speaker 4: or Brian Steltzer or Wolf Splitzer or all of these guys. Right, 184 00:10:01,064 --> 00:10:03,983 Speaker 4: they're all in an ecosystem where they just walk into 185 00:10:04,024 --> 00:10:07,904 Speaker 4: the job that they're capable of doing. And because Alex 186 00:10:07,984 --> 00:10:10,984 Speaker 4: Jones was able to walk in into this job, opening 187 00:10:11,384 --> 00:10:15,344 Speaker 4: this space where because you can't trust what the government 188 00:10:15,424 --> 00:10:20,624 Speaker 4: is doing. Sure, this FBI conspiracy's fucking crazy, man. I 189 00:10:20,664 --> 00:10:24,344 Speaker 4: can't believe that anybody would believe that the FBI has 190 00:10:24,824 --> 00:10:28,344 Speaker 4: tortured somebody underneath a cavern. But then at the same time, 191 00:10:28,343 --> 00:10:31,824 Speaker 4: you're like, wow, the FBI did assassinate Fred Hampton? So 192 00:10:32,343 --> 00:10:33,544 Speaker 4: who could not believe? 193 00:10:33,624 --> 00:10:33,704 Speaker 3: What? 194 00:10:34,384 --> 00:10:37,824 Speaker 4: Why wouldn't you believe that the FBI could murder somebody 195 00:10:38,184 --> 00:10:39,184 Speaker 4: that kind of situation? 196 00:10:55,864 --> 00:11:00,264 Speaker 2: What led you to become an Alex Jones group? Was 197 00:11:00,304 --> 00:11:02,744 Speaker 2: it the fame, the chicks, the music? 198 00:11:03,024 --> 00:11:06,383 Speaker 4: What happened was my friend Dan and I we were comedians, 199 00:11:06,784 --> 00:11:10,343 Speaker 4: and then about eight years ago we were out one 200 00:11:10,504 --> 00:11:13,144 Speaker 4: night and he was like, I've been researching this guy 201 00:11:13,504 --> 00:11:18,744 Speaker 4: because he watched the twenty sixteen election through Info Wars' 202 00:11:18,864 --> 00:11:23,384 Speaker 4: eyes and on that night that Trump won, Alex Jones 203 00:11:23,424 --> 00:11:26,463 Speaker 4: and Crewe Owen, s Troyer and I think back then 204 00:11:26,544 --> 00:11:30,463 Speaker 4: Leahne McAdoo was around. They were watching video of all 205 00:11:30,504 --> 00:11:34,424 Speaker 4: these young women, all these queer people, all of this 206 00:11:34,504 --> 00:11:38,184 Speaker 4: stuff weep it crying because they knew what Trump was 207 00:11:38,184 --> 00:11:40,864 Speaker 4: going to do to them, which is coming true. And 208 00:11:40,944 --> 00:11:44,583 Speaker 4: so Alex was just laughing. They were laughing. They were 209 00:11:44,624 --> 00:11:47,984 Speaker 4: toasting champagne back and forth, just laughing at these poor women. 210 00:11:48,504 --> 00:11:50,624 Speaker 4: And it was it just broke something in him and 211 00:11:50,664 --> 00:11:53,424 Speaker 4: he had to study it and I wanted to hang 212 00:11:53,463 --> 00:11:54,863 Speaker 4: out with my friends. So here we are. 213 00:11:55,424 --> 00:11:57,264 Speaker 3: Has it cause you any problem? You're talking about an 214 00:11:57,264 --> 00:12:00,224 Speaker 3: ecosystem of some crazy people. Are they angry at you? 215 00:12:00,304 --> 00:12:01,503 Speaker 3: Do people come after you? 216 00:12:01,544 --> 00:12:05,504 Speaker 4: No. The fun thing about what we do is that 217 00:12:05,904 --> 00:12:08,824 Speaker 4: because of our kind of I don't know, I don't 218 00:12:08,824 --> 00:12:11,664 Speaker 4: know how what I was call it lunatic commitment to 219 00:12:11,744 --> 00:12:14,624 Speaker 4: being away from everybody else in the world. They don't 220 00:12:14,624 --> 00:12:16,703 Speaker 4: want to talk about us. No one talks about us. 221 00:12:16,744 --> 00:12:19,944 Speaker 4: They don't. They rarely admit we exist. They've only set 222 00:12:19,944 --> 00:12:23,824 Speaker 4: our name a handful of times. And the main direct 223 00:12:23,944 --> 00:12:28,263 Speaker 4: interaction we've had with Info Wars and US is we 224 00:12:28,304 --> 00:12:31,784 Speaker 4: covered depositions in the Sandy Hook trials, so there would 225 00:12:31,824 --> 00:12:37,424 Speaker 4: be actual depositions of Alex Jones and Owen Schroyer and 226 00:12:37,583 --> 00:12:41,904 Speaker 4: Rob Douke, and we made fun of them so viciously 227 00:12:42,024 --> 00:12:45,463 Speaker 4: and so meanly that they wouldn't do it again. So 228 00:12:45,504 --> 00:12:48,184 Speaker 4: they had to hire a lawyer for about thirty thousand 229 00:12:48,264 --> 00:12:52,344 Speaker 4: dollars to do a deposition because we mocked them so hard. 230 00:12:52,384 --> 00:12:55,184 Speaker 4: So at the very least we have cost them thirty 231 00:12:55,223 --> 00:12:57,703 Speaker 4: thousand dollars, And I feel like that's a pretty solid 232 00:12:57,703 --> 00:12:59,144 Speaker 4: accomplishment where I'm prob. 233 00:12:59,184 --> 00:13:02,344 Speaker 3: Let me move back into your point about the ecosystem, 234 00:13:02,343 --> 00:13:05,064 Speaker 3: because that's key, right. They feed off this and they 235 00:13:05,103 --> 00:13:06,863 Speaker 3: put out meat and then they feed off the people 236 00:13:06,864 --> 00:13:09,544 Speaker 3: are into it. Does it matter now that people directly 237 00:13:09,624 --> 00:13:13,144 Speaker 3: from the ricosystem Dan Bongino Cash but are in charge 238 00:13:13,264 --> 00:13:16,904 Speaker 3: of these same organization. Does it change anything they do? 239 00:13:17,103 --> 00:13:19,504 Speaker 3: If they're claiming the FBI's up to this stuff, but 240 00:13:19,583 --> 00:13:21,944 Speaker 3: one of them is in charge of the FBI, what's 241 00:13:21,984 --> 00:13:22,304 Speaker 3: the game? 242 00:13:22,424 --> 00:13:25,463 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, to a certain extent, none of it 243 00:13:25,504 --> 00:13:28,424 Speaker 4: ever really meant anything. Everything that they ever talked about 244 00:13:28,624 --> 00:13:31,824 Speaker 4: ultimately was we just don't want them to do this 245 00:13:31,864 --> 00:13:34,704 Speaker 4: to white people. They all just really love white people. 246 00:13:35,064 --> 00:13:39,184 Speaker 2: So Jordan. For Alex Jones, his infamy and perhaps a 247 00:13:39,223 --> 00:13:42,184 Speaker 2: bridge too far was where he went with Sandy Hook 248 00:13:42,264 --> 00:13:45,664 Speaker 2: and he got sued. So Sandy Hook happens, twenty kids 249 00:13:45,664 --> 00:13:49,024 Speaker 2: are killed, the teachers, and Alex Jones then goes in 250 00:13:49,103 --> 00:13:52,103 Speaker 2: and says they were child actors. It didn't happen, this 251 00:13:52,184 --> 00:13:54,864 Speaker 2: is a false flag. And then he goes after some 252 00:13:54,944 --> 00:13:58,383 Speaker 2: of the parents and the FBI officer who come back 253 00:13:58,424 --> 00:14:00,944 Speaker 2: to and they start getting death threats. Her parents have 254 00:14:01,024 --> 00:14:03,904 Speaker 2: to move. He's found that he did defame them. He 255 00:14:03,944 --> 00:14:06,024 Speaker 2: supposedly goes bankrupt, but it doesn't seem to have made 256 00:14:06,064 --> 00:14:07,664 Speaker 2: a wit of difference. It's confusing. 257 00:14:07,944 --> 00:14:12,904 Speaker 4: So just because he was found defamed or whatever, that 258 00:14:12,984 --> 00:14:16,743 Speaker 4: takes you then to your next court, and this court says, 259 00:14:16,864 --> 00:14:20,104 Speaker 4: the last court jury's can't decide things, so we've reduced this. 260 00:14:20,584 --> 00:14:22,344 Speaker 4: And then you take that to the next court, and 261 00:14:22,384 --> 00:14:24,344 Speaker 4: the next court says, you know what, hold on to 262 00:14:24,464 --> 00:14:27,384 Speaker 4: that decision. We'll come back to this. And then he 263 00:14:27,464 --> 00:14:30,224 Speaker 4: declared bankruptcy, so then he got sent to bankruptcy court, 264 00:14:30,664 --> 00:14:33,864 Speaker 4: and then the bankruptcy judge he was nuts. I don't 265 00:14:33,904 --> 00:14:36,024 Speaker 4: know how else to describe it. He was an absolute 266 00:14:36,104 --> 00:14:39,704 Speaker 4: fucking lunatic. But all of these things are set up 267 00:14:39,744 --> 00:14:42,704 Speaker 4: to protect people like Alex Jones from the consequences of 268 00:14:42,744 --> 00:14:45,904 Speaker 4: their actions. So he just delays and delays and delays 269 00:14:45,904 --> 00:14:48,784 Speaker 4: and pushes it back and finds a new excuse, files 270 00:14:48,824 --> 00:14:51,664 Speaker 4: a new order, and because the courts aren't set up 271 00:14:51,704 --> 00:14:54,864 Speaker 4: to deal with somebody like this, or at least aren't 272 00:14:54,864 --> 00:14:57,544 Speaker 4: interested in being set up to deal with somebody like this, 273 00:14:58,104 --> 00:14:59,184 Speaker 4: he just gets away with it. 274 00:14:59,344 --> 00:15:02,904 Speaker 3: What is his financial situation? Who's behind him? Man? Does 275 00:15:02,904 --> 00:15:05,144 Speaker 3: anyone seriously fund or advertise with him? 276 00:15:05,304 --> 00:15:07,384 Speaker 4: If I was going to guess, I would say his 277 00:15:07,544 --> 00:15:11,704 Speaker 4: main income is from the Alex Jones Store. So yeah, 278 00:15:11,744 --> 00:15:13,144 Speaker 4: I'd say it's probably pill sales. 279 00:15:13,664 --> 00:15:17,624 Speaker 2: I saw from the court case that between two thousand 280 00:15:17,824 --> 00:15:22,383 Speaker 2: and fifteen to twenty eighteen he sold one hundred and 281 00:15:22,424 --> 00:15:27,864 Speaker 2: sixty five million dollars worth of merchandise, mostly dietary supplements. 282 00:15:28,064 --> 00:15:30,864 Speaker 2: He creates this stuff and sells it for like sometimes 283 00:15:30,864 --> 00:15:34,864 Speaker 2: a six hundred percent markup. Oh, and often the conspiracy 284 00:15:34,904 --> 00:15:38,424 Speaker 2: theories that he pushes people into buying his stuff. There 285 00:15:38,464 --> 00:15:40,944 Speaker 2: was I can't remember exactly how it was, but he 286 00:15:40,984 --> 00:15:43,784 Speaker 2: was predicting a food shortage and then he put out 287 00:15:43,824 --> 00:15:47,504 Speaker 2: this twenty five year rice that you can stick aside. 288 00:15:47,224 --> 00:15:49,064 Speaker 4: Food buckets, food buckets. 289 00:15:49,104 --> 00:15:52,904 Speaker 2: There we go. So he creates a conspiracy, creates fear 290 00:15:52,944 --> 00:15:55,944 Speaker 2: in the community, and then profits off of this, Which 291 00:15:55,984 --> 00:16:00,504 Speaker 2: brings us back to John's question, which is is he 292 00:16:00,744 --> 00:16:04,784 Speaker 2: just a grifter who is is evil or that doesn't 293 00:16:04,784 --> 00:16:06,664 Speaker 2: sound to me like a guy who really believes his 294 00:16:06,664 --> 00:16:07,304 Speaker 2: own stick. 295 00:16:07,464 --> 00:16:10,104 Speaker 3: Well, let me add to that question. Is this all 296 00:16:10,264 --> 00:16:12,544 Speaker 3: him or does he have writers? Has he bought people 297 00:16:12,584 --> 00:16:15,064 Speaker 3: that are filling this in? Like? Is this all part 298 00:16:15,104 --> 00:16:16,304 Speaker 3: of a marketing thing? Though? 299 00:16:16,504 --> 00:16:19,424 Speaker 4: Okay, this is an interesting multi part question. I find 300 00:16:19,504 --> 00:16:22,464 Speaker 4: the first part to be a very abstract in question 301 00:16:22,504 --> 00:16:24,824 Speaker 4: that I think I want to really dig into as 302 00:16:24,864 --> 00:16:27,664 Speaker 4: far as the second part goes in terms of is 303 00:16:27,704 --> 00:16:32,224 Speaker 4: he a grifter or just just a thief. At the 304 00:16:32,344 --> 00:16:35,344 Speaker 4: end of the day, what he believes is not what 305 00:16:35,424 --> 00:16:38,064 Speaker 4: he is saying to you. What he is saying to 306 00:16:38,104 --> 00:16:41,384 Speaker 4: you is what he needs to accomplish, what he believes 307 00:16:41,424 --> 00:16:43,864 Speaker 4: needs to happen. Right, So what he wants is a 308 00:16:43,864 --> 00:16:47,944 Speaker 4: white nationalist country. So does it matter what you believe. No, 309 00:16:48,384 --> 00:16:52,144 Speaker 4: he doesn't believe that there's a volcano underneath the earth 310 00:16:52,184 --> 00:16:55,784 Speaker 4: filled with aliens that's going to shoot out Nazis. Nobody 311 00:16:55,864 --> 00:16:59,024 Speaker 4: believes that. But if you say it often enough, then 312 00:16:59,144 --> 00:17:03,224 Speaker 4: enough people will start to believe enough stuff to get 313 00:17:03,264 --> 00:17:06,144 Speaker 4: them across the line to fascism. 314 00:17:06,184 --> 00:17:09,504 Speaker 3: So what is the connection then now to this imanist 315 00:17:09,944 --> 00:17:14,144 Speaker 3: Because for years he would attack he's hardcore right wing crazy, 316 00:17:14,184 --> 00:17:17,624 Speaker 3: but he would attack sometimes Republicans. He said Bush was 317 00:17:17,664 --> 00:17:19,984 Speaker 3: behind fake nine eleven, all these other kinds of things. 318 00:17:20,104 --> 00:17:22,984 Speaker 3: But clearly this administration, Mike Flynn's been on with them, 319 00:17:23,024 --> 00:17:26,064 Speaker 3: and Bannon's been on with him, and Trump has been 320 00:17:26,104 --> 00:17:29,264 Speaker 3: on with him, and Jad can you say, what is 321 00:17:29,304 --> 00:17:32,544 Speaker 3: the connection now to the administration? How do they use him. 322 00:17:32,624 --> 00:17:36,744 Speaker 4: So when he was back attacking Bush that kind of thing, 323 00:17:36,784 --> 00:17:40,144 Speaker 4: he wasn't attacking Bush as attacking a Republican in so 324 00:17:40,264 --> 00:17:43,304 Speaker 4: far as they have an honest disagreement. This was also 325 00:17:43,424 --> 00:17:47,904 Speaker 4: during like compassionate Conservatism. His problem with Bush was that 326 00:17:48,104 --> 00:17:51,544 Speaker 4: he wasn't kicking enough brown people out of this country. 327 00:17:52,024 --> 00:17:54,344 Speaker 4: So he didn't like that we were sending people to 328 00:17:54,624 --> 00:17:57,464 Speaker 4: murder brown people in another country. He wanted the brown 329 00:17:57,464 --> 00:18:00,144 Speaker 4: people in our country out. So that was his attack. 330 00:18:00,664 --> 00:18:05,024 Speaker 4: That was his entrance into getting some left wing disillusionment 331 00:18:05,344 --> 00:18:09,744 Speaker 4: to create this mythos of Alex being above politics, above 332 00:18:09,824 --> 00:18:12,904 Speaker 4: the left right paradigm, because everybody wanted to talk about 333 00:18:12,944 --> 00:18:16,704 Speaker 4: how much Bush sucked. So from there, how is this 334 00:18:16,824 --> 00:18:21,784 Speaker 4: administration using him? Trump went onto info Wars in twenty fifteen, 335 00:18:22,024 --> 00:18:26,264 Speaker 4: and that was paved by Roger Stone. That ego boost, 336 00:18:26,344 --> 00:18:29,984 Speaker 4: that little hand job that Trump gave Alex is going 337 00:18:30,064 --> 00:18:32,144 Speaker 4: to be enough to keep him on the team for 338 00:18:32,184 --> 00:18:35,144 Speaker 4: a long time. And then also, as you just pointed out, 339 00:18:35,264 --> 00:18:39,744 Speaker 4: his connection to this administration gives him at least maybe 340 00:18:39,784 --> 00:18:43,304 Speaker 4: the chance to delay another month from having to face 341 00:18:43,344 --> 00:18:46,624 Speaker 4: consequences for his actions. So two years from now, we'll 342 00:18:46,624 --> 00:18:48,984 Speaker 4: be back in court saying, I bet Alex Jones is 343 00:18:48,984 --> 00:18:50,864 Speaker 4: gonna face consequences this time. 344 00:18:51,144 --> 00:18:54,264 Speaker 5: I think this came out yesterday or the day before that. 345 00:18:54,824 --> 00:18:58,664 Speaker 5: The FBI officer who was the first, one of the 346 00:18:58,704 --> 00:19:02,184 Speaker 5: first responders at Sandy Hook to go into the awful scene. 347 00:19:02,184 --> 00:19:04,824 Speaker 5: I won't say the FBI officer's name, but Alex Jones 348 00:19:04,824 --> 00:19:07,864 Speaker 5: defended him, said he was an actor, and he won 349 00:19:07,984 --> 00:19:10,944 Speaker 5: a monetary sum and this lawsuit. And I think it 350 00:19:11,024 --> 00:19:15,544 Speaker 5: was yesterday of the day before that. Ed Martin of the. 351 00:19:15,424 --> 00:19:19,384 Speaker 2: Justice Department, who's the guy who couldn't become prosecutor and 352 00:19:19,544 --> 00:19:22,704 Speaker 2: district attorney in Washington, d C. One reason that he 353 00:19:22,824 --> 00:19:25,064 Speaker 2: was he was meeting with the Russians and not reporting it, 354 00:19:25,104 --> 00:19:28,344 Speaker 2: like over a hundred and forty meeting. Ed Martin and 355 00:19:28,424 --> 00:19:32,624 Speaker 2: the depolitization office that he's in has just sent a 356 00:19:32,704 --> 00:19:35,944 Speaker 2: letter to this FBI officer saying that he could be 357 00:19:35,984 --> 00:19:40,064 Speaker 2: under criminal investigation for being involved in this case. And 358 00:19:40,144 --> 00:19:43,104 Speaker 2: a few days before that, there was a picture of 359 00:19:43,384 --> 00:19:47,304 Speaker 2: Ed Martin together with Alex Jones cleaning they were meeting beforehand, 360 00:19:47,344 --> 00:19:50,224 Speaker 2: and then a letter comes out, So conspiracy theories, Now 361 00:19:50,264 --> 00:19:52,864 Speaker 2: this is a conspiracy. He's talking to Ed Martin, and 362 00:19:52,864 --> 00:19:55,864 Speaker 2: now Ed Martin is threatening an FBI officer who had 363 00:19:55,864 --> 00:19:58,544 Speaker 2: to go through that. So his roots inside of the 364 00:19:58,544 --> 00:20:01,344 Speaker 2: Trump administration, at least with some people like Ed Martin, 365 00:20:01,624 --> 00:20:03,904 Speaker 2: are clearly still there. 366 00:20:04,304 --> 00:20:06,824 Speaker 4: Well. I mean, but that's why you take over a country. 367 00:20:07,104 --> 00:20:09,064 Speaker 4: That's why you do it so you don't have to 368 00:20:09,064 --> 00:20:10,904 Speaker 4: deal with old country's laws. 369 00:20:11,144 --> 00:20:14,304 Speaker 2: But let me make an assumption here that Trump world. 370 00:20:14,544 --> 00:20:17,824 Speaker 2: I know Trump himself, but certainly people around him they 371 00:20:17,864 --> 00:20:20,544 Speaker 2: want to maintain that audience, right, he has millions of 372 00:20:20,624 --> 00:20:23,064 Speaker 2: viewers a month. Unfortunately, I want to convict to that, 373 00:20:23,544 --> 00:20:25,624 Speaker 2: and they want those people on side, right, and they 374 00:20:25,624 --> 00:20:28,224 Speaker 2: don't want they don't want Elx Joneses an enemy. 375 00:20:28,384 --> 00:20:32,664 Speaker 4: So when the Epstein stuff originally dropped, that's when Alex 376 00:20:32,784 --> 00:20:35,664 Speaker 4: earned this. I would say he went to bat for 377 00:20:35,744 --> 00:20:36,584 Speaker 4: the administration. 378 00:20:37,104 --> 00:20:40,024 Speaker 3: Let me ask a question then about his skill, because 379 00:20:40,024 --> 00:20:42,023 Speaker 3: there has to be the fact that he stayed on 380 00:20:42,064 --> 00:20:44,344 Speaker 3: this long, has this much thing, has this much influence. 381 00:20:44,904 --> 00:20:47,864 Speaker 3: There's something. What are the patterns of things that he 382 00:20:47,944 --> 00:20:52,064 Speaker 3: does that keeps people interested? He's an entertainer. What skill 383 00:20:52,144 --> 00:20:53,944 Speaker 3: does he have that makes him successful? 384 00:20:54,184 --> 00:20:56,464 Speaker 4: I don't think. I don't know if he has any skills. 385 00:20:56,584 --> 00:20:59,864 Speaker 4: He has an asset. His asset is a willingness to 386 00:20:59,944 --> 00:21:03,384 Speaker 4: do anything, and the ability to not have a boss 387 00:21:03,624 --> 00:21:07,704 Speaker 4: is really the situation. So one episode we covered him 388 00:21:07,744 --> 00:21:11,104 Speaker 4: on a Christmas show where where he certainly starts throwing 389 00:21:11,144 --> 00:21:13,664 Speaker 4: hatches at the camera and he just found some hatchets. 390 00:21:13,704 --> 00:21:16,664 Speaker 4: They're drinking, everybody's having a fun time, and he just 391 00:21:16,704 --> 00:21:19,864 Speaker 4: starts throwing hatchets at the camera in his studio. And 392 00:21:19,984 --> 00:21:22,824 Speaker 4: that's something that you can only get if you don't 393 00:21:22,824 --> 00:21:26,744 Speaker 4: have a boss. There's no situation where Wolf Blitzer can 394 00:21:26,904 --> 00:21:30,424 Speaker 4: just get drunk on TV and throw shit at his 395 00:21:30,464 --> 00:21:33,023 Speaker 4: own cameras. There's a boss who's gonna stop him. 396 00:21:33,144 --> 00:21:34,944 Speaker 2: Far be it from me to say anything good about 397 00:21:34,984 --> 00:21:38,384 Speaker 2: one of Alex Jones lawyers, but one of Elx Jones 398 00:21:38,464 --> 00:21:43,264 Speaker 2: lawyers described him as the Coca Cola of conspiracy theories 399 00:21:43,664 --> 00:21:46,544 Speaker 2: because he's so recognizable, right, and so one of the 400 00:21:46,584 --> 00:21:49,263 Speaker 2: things I have to ask about is like what's up 401 00:21:49,264 --> 00:21:52,824 Speaker 2: with his voice. He's got this like Gravelly two pack 402 00:21:52,904 --> 00:21:57,144 Speaker 2: a day Marlborough unfiltered voice. So I speak German, and 403 00:21:57,784 --> 00:22:00,784 Speaker 2: when I listen to the speeches of and for history 404 00:22:01,184 --> 00:22:04,624 Speaker 2: of I don't do this at home of Hitler and Googles. True, 405 00:22:04,624 --> 00:22:08,664 Speaker 2: even what they're saying is complete, like utter evil nonsense, 406 00:22:08,944 --> 00:22:12,744 Speaker 2: but it is riveting the words they use, the cadence, 407 00:22:12,824 --> 00:22:16,984 Speaker 2: the voices they have sure, And so it strikes me 408 00:22:17,064 --> 00:22:19,504 Speaker 2: when the few times I've listened to Alex Jones at 409 00:22:19,504 --> 00:22:23,144 Speaker 2: any leg he does his this hypnotic cadence. He's got 410 00:22:23,144 --> 00:22:26,584 Speaker 2: this vocabulary and he's got this voice that he uses. 411 00:22:26,664 --> 00:22:28,504 Speaker 4: He was doing a Limba he was doing a Limba 412 00:22:28,544 --> 00:22:31,904 Speaker 4: impression when he in the early nineties. And he's a smoker. 413 00:22:32,224 --> 00:22:35,224 Speaker 4: So the combination of those two have just dropped his 414 00:22:35,344 --> 00:22:38,944 Speaker 4: voice to where it is today. And then really that 415 00:22:39,144 --> 00:22:42,824 Speaker 4: is just the gospel preacher. I could pull that off 416 00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:46,104 Speaker 4: in a heartbeat. I was raised in the church, I 417 00:22:46,144 --> 00:22:49,704 Speaker 4: was raised hearing fire and brimstone. I am a sinner 418 00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:52,504 Speaker 4: in the hands of an angry God. So it's just 419 00:22:52,584 --> 00:22:55,744 Speaker 4: kind of that kind of pattern. It goes. That's America though, 420 00:22:55,904 --> 00:22:59,864 Speaker 4: that's one of the oldest kind of big tent revivalists. 421 00:22:59,584 --> 00:23:03,344 Speaker 4: That's that's America. So yeah, he's like in that vein 422 00:23:03,424 --> 00:23:17,104 Speaker 4: of Father Coughlin, that radio firebrand. 423 00:23:18,024 --> 00:23:20,824 Speaker 3: So looking back to the ecosystem a little bit, who 424 00:23:20,864 --> 00:23:23,864 Speaker 3: is learning from him what's the next generation who is 425 00:23:24,464 --> 00:23:26,824 Speaker 3: who do you see out there who can fill this 426 00:23:26,944 --> 00:23:29,504 Speaker 3: void or a number of people filling this void. 427 00:23:29,984 --> 00:23:33,384 Speaker 4: That is a really good question. So Nick Fuentes is 428 00:23:33,384 --> 00:23:38,304 Speaker 4: an Internet Nazi who Alex is trying to get his audience, 429 00:23:38,384 --> 00:23:42,624 Speaker 4: the younger Internet Nazis, but instead Fuentes is stealing the 430 00:23:42,664 --> 00:23:47,104 Speaker 4: people who feel like Alex is weak. Now Alex isn't 431 00:23:47,104 --> 00:23:49,544 Speaker 4: there isn't strong enough for them. They like a harder 432 00:23:49,584 --> 00:23:53,304 Speaker 4: cup of Nazi in the morning. So that's Fuentes's spot 433 00:23:53,424 --> 00:23:56,504 Speaker 4: now is He's where Alex was back in the day, 434 00:23:56,624 --> 00:23:59,984 Speaker 4: back whenever Alex was stealing from Bill Cooper. People who 435 00:23:59,984 --> 00:24:02,304 Speaker 4: would listen to Bill Cooper and think, this guy's got 436 00:24:02,304 --> 00:24:05,224 Speaker 4: a point, but he's got a monotone voice. He's not 437 00:24:05,344 --> 00:24:09,024 Speaker 4: really entertaining. Alex is ripping people away from him. You 438 00:24:09,064 --> 00:24:11,784 Speaker 4: can get your Nazi hood over here. And then in 439 00:24:11,824 --> 00:24:13,864 Speaker 4: the same vein, Nick is trying to do that to 440 00:24:13,944 --> 00:24:15,824 Speaker 4: everybody else. So he's the one. 441 00:24:15,944 --> 00:24:19,264 Speaker 3: Now what's Alex's How does Alex go against Fuentes? 442 00:24:19,744 --> 00:24:22,584 Speaker 4: I think it's what is what's fascinating about it is 443 00:24:22,584 --> 00:24:28,344 Speaker 4: it's an interesting psychodrama insofar as Alex is platforming this kid, right, 444 00:24:28,424 --> 00:24:31,944 Speaker 4: he wants the extreme Nazi ideas on his show, while 445 00:24:31,984 --> 00:24:35,264 Speaker 4: at the same time he wants to soften the extreme 446 00:24:35,384 --> 00:24:38,864 Speaker 4: Nazi ideas so he can get more from the mainstream. 447 00:24:39,224 --> 00:24:43,864 Speaker 4: So Alex's spot in the bullshit laundering system is he 448 00:24:43,984 --> 00:24:47,544 Speaker 4: says the craziest stuff he possibly can, and then whatever 449 00:24:47,664 --> 00:24:51,624 Speaker 4: sticks gets filtered down into the next level of your 450 00:24:51,704 --> 00:24:54,783 Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson's or whatever, and then what sticks from that 451 00:24:54,864 --> 00:24:57,864 Speaker 4: will get filtered into your mainstream Fox News. 452 00:24:58,144 --> 00:25:02,344 Speaker 2: So his audience, I assumed it's young men who have 453 00:25:03,064 --> 00:25:06,744 Speaker 2: low information, but also there's other people. So there's the publix, 454 00:25:07,184 --> 00:25:10,744 Speaker 2: the heiress right, the grocery store, and apparently she gave, 455 00:25:10,824 --> 00:25:13,984 Speaker 2: according to the press, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars 456 00:25:13,984 --> 00:25:16,864 Speaker 2: to Alex Jones for the stop to Steal parade, and 457 00:25:17,264 --> 00:25:19,984 Speaker 2: he got two hundred thousand dollars according to the press 458 00:25:20,024 --> 00:25:22,944 Speaker 2: reports I've seen. So on the one hand, he's dealing 459 00:25:23,024 --> 00:25:25,984 Speaker 2: what he's finding a few high high worth individuals who 460 00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:29,344 Speaker 2: are giving him hundreds of thousands of dollars. He's selling 461 00:25:30,384 --> 00:25:34,904 Speaker 2: vitamin supplements and suppositories and fuckings, what for millions of dollars? 462 00:25:35,144 --> 00:25:38,704 Speaker 2: I guess a question, what void does he fill inside 463 00:25:38,704 --> 00:25:41,744 Speaker 2: of the American demographic? Do you think, why do people 464 00:25:41,824 --> 00:25:43,344 Speaker 2: need Alex Jones? Right? 465 00:25:43,384 --> 00:25:46,584 Speaker 4: I mean, I mean part of it is just a 466 00:25:46,624 --> 00:25:50,424 Speaker 4: strand of American that dates back to the Civil War, 467 00:25:50,904 --> 00:25:55,584 Speaker 4: a person who there is a lineage of whiteness, There 468 00:25:55,624 --> 00:25:59,584 Speaker 4: is a lineage of dominance that comes from that early 469 00:25:59,664 --> 00:26:03,064 Speaker 4: American That kind of you say, oh, what do American 470 00:26:03,144 --> 00:26:07,384 Speaker 4: people see in Alex Jones? People walked across America and 471 00:26:07,504 --> 00:26:11,824 Speaker 4: took land. People are fucking nuts in America. That's who 472 00:26:11,864 --> 00:26:16,263 Speaker 4: we are. We're from the land of genociders, and we 473 00:26:16,304 --> 00:26:20,064 Speaker 4: even admit it. There's a kind of transference that happens there. 474 00:26:19,904 --> 00:26:23,984 Speaker 3: In the past, the father Coughlin's, the McCarthy's or others 475 00:26:23,984 --> 00:26:26,544 Speaker 3: like they eventually burned themselves out. But this is a 476 00:26:26,584 --> 00:26:29,984 Speaker 3: Trump era. Does this keep him going longer? Or do 477 00:26:29,984 --> 00:26:32,344 Speaker 3: you see anything in what he's doing that is going 478 00:26:32,384 --> 00:26:35,304 Speaker 3: to potentially lead to his demise or people like Flente's 479 00:26:35,304 --> 00:26:36,824 Speaker 3: gonna just take over and he's gonna become less and 480 00:26:36,864 --> 00:26:37,504 Speaker 3: less relevant. 481 00:26:37,784 --> 00:26:41,184 Speaker 4: I wonder when we say burnout, isn't that kind of 482 00:26:41,224 --> 00:26:44,144 Speaker 4: ascribing a little bit to the main character theory, Like 483 00:26:44,344 --> 00:26:48,664 Speaker 4: when McCarthy exploded McCarthy did burn out. Absolutely, he burned 484 00:26:48,744 --> 00:26:51,224 Speaker 4: very bright and then fell apart. But it wasn't like 485 00:26:51,744 --> 00:26:55,824 Speaker 4: his people left, man, it was just the movement now 486 00:26:55,904 --> 00:26:59,384 Speaker 4: went somewhere else. The people fractured, and then they'll return 487 00:26:59,464 --> 00:27:01,944 Speaker 4: once again when conditions are right. 488 00:27:02,904 --> 00:27:05,864 Speaker 3: We've benefited politically when they've been fractured, and it's all 489 00:27:05,864 --> 00:27:08,064 Speaker 3: of a sudden. Now they're pulling together again and it's 490 00:27:08,104 --> 00:27:11,744 Speaker 3: a powerful, scary thing and they're empowered. Let's talk a 491 00:27:11,744 --> 00:27:13,504 Speaker 3: little bit about you. You did mention a little bit, 492 00:27:13,584 --> 00:27:16,064 Speaker 3: how you got into it. How do you continue to 493 00:27:16,064 --> 00:27:18,384 Speaker 3: tolerate it? Can't be easy, Like this stuff is like 494 00:27:18,424 --> 00:27:20,704 Speaker 3: a cancer, and God bless you if we're able to 495 00:27:20,744 --> 00:27:22,344 Speaker 3: listen to it and talk about it without it making 496 00:27:22,384 --> 00:27:23,904 Speaker 3: you nuts. Are you gonna keep doing this? Are you 497 00:27:23,904 --> 00:27:25,944 Speaker 3: gonna look at the others that are like him too? 498 00:27:26,104 --> 00:27:29,864 Speaker 4: There's not going to stop being hymns. If he was 499 00:27:29,944 --> 00:27:32,704 Speaker 4: hit by a meteor today, there would be another hymn tomorrow. 500 00:27:33,184 --> 00:27:35,984 Speaker 4: It's the conditions that make him that need to change 501 00:27:36,104 --> 00:27:38,984 Speaker 4: in order for hymns to go away, if that makes sense. 502 00:27:39,384 --> 00:27:43,584 Speaker 2: So Alex Jones went on famously for a long time 503 00:27:43,664 --> 00:27:47,744 Speaker 2: about how Obama had a weather machine. Sure, all the 504 00:27:47,744 --> 00:27:52,024 Speaker 2: weather events, the terrible things that happened was his responsibility. 505 00:27:52,064 --> 00:27:54,464 Speaker 2: And I think Marjorie Tayley Green is also plugged into this. 506 00:27:54,584 --> 00:27:58,184 Speaker 2: That so, now that did Obama turn over the keys 507 00:27:58,304 --> 00:28:02,304 Speaker 2: to the weather machine to Trump? Do they not count anymore? 508 00:28:02,584 --> 00:28:07,584 Speaker 2: How does he deal if at all? Right, logical inconsistencies. 509 00:28:07,944 --> 00:28:12,263 Speaker 4: You and I are strained by continuity, the idea that 510 00:28:12,384 --> 00:28:16,344 Speaker 4: yesterday is affecting today, and that today will affect tomorrow 511 00:28:16,424 --> 00:28:18,584 Speaker 4: and so on and so forth until the end of time. 512 00:28:18,984 --> 00:28:21,384 Speaker 4: But if you free your mind of the idea that 513 00:28:21,424 --> 00:28:24,024 Speaker 4: there was a yesterday or that there will be tomorrow, 514 00:28:24,304 --> 00:28:25,984 Speaker 4: then today absolutely. 515 00:28:26,384 --> 00:28:28,384 Speaker 2: So this is you know, John and I are former 516 00:28:28,424 --> 00:28:34,064 Speaker 2: agency officers. Alex Jones has sued CI a and it 517 00:28:34,144 --> 00:28:36,944 Speaker 2: is he sued us a couple of times. But there's 518 00:28:36,984 --> 00:28:41,944 Speaker 2: also this thing with this supposed CIA officer, Gavin o'blennis. 519 00:28:42,144 --> 00:28:45,384 Speaker 2: Who the fuck is that Gavin o'blennis, a CIA officer 520 00:28:45,664 --> 00:28:49,024 Speaker 2: who's saying that basically he's operating on being you know who, 521 00:28:49,304 --> 00:28:51,904 Speaker 2: Alex Jones is exposed. So if you could give me 522 00:28:52,024 --> 00:28:54,664 Speaker 2: the if you have it, the background on why he's 523 00:28:54,704 --> 00:28:58,784 Speaker 2: been threatening to or his been suing CIA and how 524 00:28:58,864 --> 00:29:01,504 Speaker 2: Gavin o'blen Blennis I've never fucking heard of. I don't 525 00:29:01,504 --> 00:29:04,104 Speaker 2: even think that's a real name. How does he enter 526 00:29:04,144 --> 00:29:04,584 Speaker 2: into this. 527 00:29:04,984 --> 00:29:07,264 Speaker 4: I don't know if he's ever actually sued the CIA, 528 00:29:07,424 --> 00:29:10,864 Speaker 4: like maybe gone to gone to courtroom with any kind 529 00:29:10,904 --> 00:29:14,664 Speaker 4: of reason. His lawyer, who you complimented earlier, I believe, 530 00:29:14,784 --> 00:29:18,104 Speaker 4: is a guy named Norm Pattis, who is first off, 531 00:29:18,104 --> 00:29:21,264 Speaker 4: he fell asleep during the Sandy Hook trial. He was 532 00:29:21,744 --> 00:29:25,184 Speaker 4: a former open mic stand up comedian. You can look 533 00:29:25,184 --> 00:29:28,984 Speaker 4: at him on YouTube. You can see him very courageously 534 00:29:29,024 --> 00:29:32,184 Speaker 4: saying the N word to a black woman. So his 535 00:29:32,304 --> 00:29:36,224 Speaker 4: lawyer's probably not going to win a case against the 536 00:29:36,304 --> 00:29:40,304 Speaker 4: CIA most likely. So here's my question to you guys. Please, 537 00:29:40,304 --> 00:29:43,624 Speaker 4: do you feel like what Alex Jones does is wrong? 538 00:29:43,904 --> 00:29:45,944 Speaker 4: Or do you feel like it's wrong because he's doing 539 00:29:45,984 --> 00:29:47,024 Speaker 4: it to Americans? 540 00:29:47,144 --> 00:29:49,944 Speaker 3: It's an interesting The premise here question in a couple 541 00:29:49,944 --> 00:29:53,064 Speaker 3: comments you made, suggests that we do this kind of 542 00:29:53,144 --> 00:29:57,144 Speaker 3: thing to other countries. Now, it is indeed true that 543 00:29:57,224 --> 00:30:00,224 Speaker 3: the US government and the CI were involved in taking 544 00:30:00,264 --> 00:30:03,824 Speaker 3: over governments and doing some of their propaganda shit a 545 00:30:03,864 --> 00:30:05,784 Speaker 3: lot in the years after World War Two, in the 546 00:30:05,824 --> 00:30:08,544 Speaker 3: fifties and sixties, since the seventies when Jerry and I 547 00:30:08,624 --> 00:30:10,744 Speaker 3: came in the eighties, and then we work in thirty 548 00:30:10,784 --> 00:30:13,264 Speaker 3: plus years, and there were here to have been reforms 549 00:30:13,264 --> 00:30:16,864 Speaker 3: in the nineteen seventies essentially put congressional oversight over us 550 00:30:16,864 --> 00:30:20,864 Speaker 3: that made presidents have to write specific requests to the CIA. 551 00:30:20,904 --> 00:30:23,024 Speaker 3: Were in the past, Eisenhower could say, go take care 552 00:30:23,024 --> 00:30:26,424 Speaker 3: of this dictator or whatever. Yeah, so those days are 553 00:30:26,464 --> 00:30:29,264 Speaker 3: sort of over the days even where we did like 554 00:30:29,344 --> 00:30:32,344 Speaker 3: heavy duty propaganda and this kind of stuff, right, it is, 555 00:30:32,464 --> 00:30:34,824 Speaker 3: I mean, we're involved heavily in espionage, that's for sure. 556 00:30:34,864 --> 00:30:38,504 Speaker 3: We're recruiting spies to tell his secret stuff. Occasionally presidents 557 00:30:38,584 --> 00:30:41,424 Speaker 3: do give us covert it's called COVID action things to 558 00:30:41,464 --> 00:30:44,664 Speaker 3: go take care of terrorists, which, of course you've seen 559 00:30:44,664 --> 00:30:46,584 Speaker 3: what's happened with all those kind of things. But the 560 00:30:46,584 --> 00:30:50,744 Speaker 3: notion that we're heavily into, yeah, like mirroring countries and 561 00:30:50,784 --> 00:30:53,464 Speaker 3: putting have our own Alex Jones things going in other countries, 562 00:30:53,664 --> 00:30:55,224 Speaker 3: is not actually true. 563 00:30:55,344 --> 00:30:59,104 Speaker 4: You guys, what your your last year was Stuck'snet, right, 564 00:30:59,144 --> 00:31:01,744 Speaker 4: Your last year was the year that stucks Net escaped. 565 00:31:01,984 --> 00:31:06,064 Speaker 3: That's a very interesting and fascinating operation and I wasn't involved, 566 00:31:06,104 --> 00:31:09,304 Speaker 3: but I do it does one hundred percent believe that was. 567 00:31:09,704 --> 00:31:13,064 Speaker 3: You know, Israeli is in TI working together to try 568 00:31:13,104 --> 00:31:15,664 Speaker 3: to mess with the Iranian system, which I think is 569 00:31:15,864 --> 00:31:16,664 Speaker 3: probably a good thing. 570 00:31:16,544 --> 00:31:19,544 Speaker 2: To do stopping Iranian nukes. Yeah, yeah, but I. 571 00:31:19,544 --> 00:31:21,784 Speaker 3: Think one obviously what happened is it got out into 572 00:31:21,784 --> 00:31:26,304 Speaker 3: the ecosystem, your ecosystem again and infected and caused problems 573 00:31:26,344 --> 00:31:28,024 Speaker 3: outside of Iran. Yeap, bad thing. 574 00:31:28,264 --> 00:31:30,304 Speaker 4: I recently read a book called This Is How They 575 00:31:30,304 --> 00:31:33,104 Speaker 4: Tell Me The World Ends, which is an exhaustively reported 576 00:31:33,144 --> 00:31:36,104 Speaker 4: book on a cyber espionage and all of that stuff 577 00:31:36,544 --> 00:31:41,384 Speaker 4: and stuck Snet, who's ad crazy interesting operation because it 578 00:31:41,544 --> 00:31:44,184 Speaker 4: was the first time that they had ever successfully gotten 579 00:31:44,224 --> 00:31:49,264 Speaker 4: a hard wire wirelessly. Right, So all of that information 580 00:31:49,424 --> 00:31:52,944 Speaker 4: for the whatever, the centrifugeias and all of that stuff, right, 581 00:31:53,264 --> 00:31:57,144 Speaker 4: they absolutely kept that offline. Why would you put that online? 582 00:31:57,144 --> 00:31:59,544 Speaker 4: That would be stupid. They had it stuck in this 583 00:31:59,704 --> 00:32:03,344 Speaker 4: kind of a physical box where there's actually stuff, and 584 00:32:03,384 --> 00:32:06,024 Speaker 4: so they got people to get inside and get as 585 00:32:06,064 --> 00:32:08,944 Speaker 4: close as possible and got a stick there that could 586 00:32:08,984 --> 00:32:12,304 Speaker 4: actually penetrate through that and that's how stucksnet got in there, 587 00:32:12,344 --> 00:32:15,184 Speaker 4: and it destroyed all the centrifuges. Now, the problem, of 588 00:32:15,224 --> 00:32:19,064 Speaker 4: course is that if you don't understand something, especially if 589 00:32:19,104 --> 00:32:21,704 Speaker 4: it's a weapon, it'll probably get out and cause the 590 00:32:21,704 --> 00:32:22,824 Speaker 4: collateral damage. 591 00:32:23,024 --> 00:32:25,544 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so Stuck's net. And there's a book called 592 00:32:25,544 --> 00:32:27,744 Speaker 3: I Think Countdown to Zero Day which really talks a 593 00:32:27,744 --> 00:32:31,264 Speaker 3: lot about how the launch of the first world's digital weapon. 594 00:32:31,664 --> 00:32:33,504 Speaker 3: From what I could tell again like it wasn't involved 595 00:32:33,504 --> 00:32:36,264 Speaker 3: in it, that it was a CIA and Israeli operation 596 00:32:36,824 --> 00:32:40,784 Speaker 3: to use like high end government cyber warriors, digital wars, 597 00:32:40,784 --> 00:32:43,864 Speaker 3: whatever you want to call them, to create a tool 598 00:32:44,024 --> 00:32:46,944 Speaker 3: that could get into the used through commercial things, to 599 00:32:46,984 --> 00:32:50,904 Speaker 3: get into the Uranian nuclear system and such that when 600 00:32:50,944 --> 00:32:54,344 Speaker 3: they had to update things or fix things, it eventually 601 00:32:54,344 --> 00:32:57,424 Speaker 3: would get into their system so that they're centrifuges that 602 00:32:57,464 --> 00:33:00,824 Speaker 3: would provide the nuclear material for their weapons. When they 603 00:33:00,864 --> 00:33:02,824 Speaker 3: needed to use them, it would break down and wouldn't work. 604 00:33:02,824 --> 00:33:05,464 Speaker 3: And my understanding it was quite successful, like in terms 605 00:33:05,464 --> 00:33:08,144 Speaker 3: of screwing up their system, keeping them several years away 606 00:33:08,144 --> 00:33:10,664 Speaker 3: from doing those kind of things. But what happens and 607 00:33:10,864 --> 00:33:14,104 Speaker 3: what you talked about and what is eventually that system 608 00:33:14,144 --> 00:33:17,344 Speaker 3: which was pretty tightly kept in the Iranian system eventually 609 00:33:17,344 --> 00:33:21,144 Speaker 3: got out into other places so that if you were 610 00:33:21,144 --> 00:33:25,144 Speaker 3: in another country, could you'd see this weird code and 611 00:33:25,184 --> 00:33:27,824 Speaker 3: say what is this? And it caused some problems in 612 00:33:27,904 --> 00:33:30,344 Speaker 3: other businesses and things rather than just Iran. It was 613 00:33:30,384 --> 00:33:32,864 Speaker 3: meant to be a weapon that was secretly pointed at 614 00:33:32,864 --> 00:33:35,864 Speaker 3: the Iranian nuclear program, which worked. Okay, so the us 615 00:33:35,904 --> 00:33:38,664 Speaker 3: CO a president can look for the CIA or whatever 616 00:33:38,744 --> 00:33:41,784 Speaker 3: to use in places that potentially cost trouble. I mean, 617 00:33:42,024 --> 00:33:45,544 Speaker 3: destabilizing places is usually not a great I mean, the 618 00:33:45,584 --> 00:33:47,824 Speaker 3: fact about Stucksnet is you're trying to stop a specific 619 00:33:47,904 --> 00:33:50,864 Speaker 3: program that is a potential threat to the West. Other 620 00:33:50,904 --> 00:33:52,704 Speaker 3: than from the fifties and sixties that we talked about 621 00:33:52,744 --> 00:33:55,984 Speaker 3: destabilizing countries just hoping for the best, we saw that 622 00:33:56,024 --> 00:33:56,904 Speaker 3: didn't work too well. 623 00:33:56,984 --> 00:33:58,264 Speaker 2: It's in the past. You know. 624 00:33:58,384 --> 00:34:00,104 Speaker 3: There's people who still hate us in parts of the 625 00:34:00,104 --> 00:34:02,664 Speaker 3: world because they think that we just stabilize their governments 626 00:34:02,704 --> 00:34:04,624 Speaker 3: and whatever. And we might have and we did in 627 00:34:04,624 --> 00:34:05,304 Speaker 3: some cases. 628 00:34:05,744 --> 00:34:08,864 Speaker 2: Besides somebody who calls like Biden like the slave of Satan, 629 00:34:08,944 --> 00:34:10,984 Speaker 2: that's not somebody we're gonna want to work with, right 630 00:34:11,024 --> 00:34:14,224 Speaker 2: We're looking for long term relationships with people to achieve 631 00:34:14,264 --> 00:34:18,143 Speaker 2: an end you know, stop violence or terrorist attacks. And 632 00:34:18,344 --> 00:34:20,744 Speaker 2: this is the North Korean nuclear program. We all agree 633 00:34:20,783 --> 00:34:23,863 Speaker 2: that is that this authoritarian whack job should not have 634 00:34:23,984 --> 00:34:26,703 Speaker 2: nuclear weapons. Right, we agree with this. We don't want 635 00:34:26,703 --> 00:34:28,743 Speaker 2: to attack them, So what do we do short of that? 636 00:34:29,104 --> 00:34:32,823 Speaker 2: But Alex Jones is an agent or someone we would use. 637 00:34:33,024 --> 00:34:35,223 Speaker 2: I would never use somebody like they couldn't keep his 638 00:34:35,263 --> 00:34:37,864 Speaker 2: mouth shut, you know, it would be silly and stupid. 639 00:34:38,064 --> 00:34:39,223 Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah, it's not. 640 00:34:39,304 --> 00:34:41,744 Speaker 3: It's not. It's not a very aimable weapon. 641 00:34:42,143 --> 00:34:45,304 Speaker 4: No, very much not. I'm always interested in what people 642 00:34:45,344 --> 00:34:47,943 Speaker 4: do in the name of what because I don't. I'm 643 00:34:47,944 --> 00:34:50,584 Speaker 4: not a team sports guy. I'm I'm more of a 644 00:34:50,703 --> 00:34:52,223 Speaker 4: I'm more of a I'm not doing that shit. 645 00:34:52,824 --> 00:34:55,464 Speaker 2: But I'll give you this. I've taken two oaths in 646 00:34:55,544 --> 00:34:58,304 Speaker 2: my life, right, one of the day I got married, 647 00:34:58,304 --> 00:35:01,384 Speaker 2: and the other is the day I eod'd entered on 648 00:35:01,504 --> 00:35:03,743 Speaker 2: duty and I put up my right hand and I 649 00:35:03,864 --> 00:35:09,904 Speaker 2: swore to defend the ideals in our constitution, right to 650 00:35:09,944 --> 00:35:13,383 Speaker 2: defend them from all enemies, for and domestic. So what 651 00:35:13,544 --> 00:35:18,224 Speaker 2: motivates you? It's not God? Maybe patriotism, I guess, depending 652 00:35:18,263 --> 00:35:21,303 Speaker 2: how you define it. But it's really the ideals of 653 00:35:21,344 --> 00:35:26,863 Speaker 2: what we're striving for. I don't believe in tolerance of intolerance, right, 654 00:35:26,904 --> 00:35:29,584 Speaker 2: so somebody's got to stand up against your standing up 655 00:35:29,584 --> 00:35:32,064 Speaker 2: to Alan S. Jones. You're not tolerant of his intolerance, 656 00:35:32,064 --> 00:35:35,864 Speaker 2: So good eye you, brother, Like I'm intolerant of fucking 657 00:35:35,944 --> 00:35:40,464 Speaker 2: Putin and Kim Chung un and Islamic fundamentalism. I'll just 658 00:35:40,544 --> 00:35:43,303 Speaker 2: say is you know, when I took that oath to 659 00:35:44,424 --> 00:35:47,904 Speaker 2: defend the Constitution from all enemies for and domestic, I 660 00:35:47,944 --> 00:35:50,863 Speaker 2: thought and domestic was just like a throw in for 661 00:35:50,944 --> 00:35:53,504 Speaker 2: some reason or other right in the Civil War. I 662 00:35:53,623 --> 00:35:56,904 Speaker 2: never thought that the domestic part would be real. 663 00:35:57,263 --> 00:36:00,064 Speaker 3: I think the United States and this administration is a 664 00:36:00,104 --> 00:36:03,944 Speaker 3: bigger danger to the world and peace and to health 665 00:36:04,104 --> 00:36:07,584 Speaker 3: and to climate than many other countries that we used 666 00:36:07,584 --> 00:36:10,263 Speaker 3: to consider enemies in the world. And so it's a 667 00:36:10,304 --> 00:36:13,263 Speaker 3: scary and weird time. Fruh Jordan, it was really fun 668 00:36:13,304 --> 00:36:15,823 Speaker 3: talking was thank you very much, God bless you for 669 00:36:15,864 --> 00:36:18,783 Speaker 3: what you're doing. I couldn't do it, but you know, 670 00:36:18,944 --> 00:36:20,943 Speaker 3: we have to try to figure out what is it 671 00:36:21,024 --> 00:36:23,664 Speaker 3: that makes people interested in this and what makes people 672 00:36:23,703 --> 00:36:26,104 Speaker 3: successful at it, because we're seeing more and more of it. 673 00:36:26,344 --> 00:36:28,223 Speaker 4: Thank you guys, so much for having me on. This 674 00:36:28,304 --> 00:36:30,064 Speaker 4: was a fantastic time, Oh Jordan. 675 00:36:30,183 --> 00:36:33,223 Speaker 2: One mistake were your parents with a two by tours 676 00:36:33,304 --> 00:36:34,143 Speaker 2: the No Name Church? 677 00:36:34,464 --> 00:36:37,504 Speaker 4: Yes, well they weren't two by tours. There was another 678 00:36:37,584 --> 00:36:40,743 Speaker 4: no name fellowship, but they were the no name different Okay, 679 00:36:41,623 --> 00:36:44,784 Speaker 4: yeah it was they got overtaken by the two by Tours. 680 00:36:44,864 --> 00:36:46,783 Speaker 2: Yeah. I used to belong to a cult run by 681 00:36:46,783 --> 00:36:49,424 Speaker 2: a guy who now is from Chicago called the Pope 682 00:36:49,824 --> 00:36:53,384 Speaker 2: ah Nice. 683 00:36:55,104 --> 00:37:00,143 Speaker 1: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'shay, John Cipher, 684 00:37:00,464 --> 00:37:04,864 Speaker 1: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. Mission 685 00:37:04,864 --> 00:37:08,864 Speaker 1: Implausible It's a production of honorable mention and abominable pictures 686 00:37:08,944 --> 00:37:11,024 Speaker 1: for iHeart Podcast