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Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest show in politics. As Kevin McCarthy's
Speaker 1: Republican critics prepared to vote on a motion to vacate
Speaker 1: and Democrats are apparently not coming to his defense, this
Speaker 1: is happening in real time. Either way, we will witness
Speaker 1: history either way. This goes over the next two hours,
Speaker 1: and we'll discuss with Congressman Ben Klein, the Republican from
Speaker 1: Virginia is a member of the Freedom Caucus, and we'll
Speaker 1: bring his view straight from the Capitol in a moment
Speaker 1: with analysis from our signature panel. I'm glad to say
Speaker 1: they're both with us today. Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis
Speaker 1: and Gdi Schanzano are with us for the hour. So
Speaker 1: it's already been a fascinating day, if not a dramatic
Speaker 1: one here in Washington, depends what side you're on here,
Speaker 1: I suppose for those of us simply trying to keep
Speaker 1: up with the news, though it's been breathless. After Congressman
Speaker 1: Matt Gates last night dropped his threatened motion to vacate,
Speaker 1: he spoke from the House floor.
Speaker 4: Declaring the office of Speaker of the House of Representatives
Speaker 4: to be vacant. Resolved that the office of Speaker of
Speaker 4: the House of Representatives is hereby declared to be vacant.
Speaker 1: Simple as that we've already heard from the leadership on
Speaker 1: both sides today. Following a Republican Caucus meeting, Speaker Kevin
Speaker 1: McCarthy out in front of reporters with his view early today.
Speaker 5: If you throw a speaker out that has ninety nine
Speaker 5: percent of their conference that kept government open and paid
Speaker 5: the troops, I think we're in a really bad place
Speaker 5: for how we're going to run Congress Democrats to no I,
Speaker 5: I personally, I'm not.
Speaker 6: Do you need their help to remain in leadership?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 8: I five.
Speaker 5: If five Republicans go with Democrats, then I'm out. So
Speaker 5: it's it's it's weather, probably.
Speaker 1: So probably, so, he says, if I vote with Democrats,
Speaker 1: I'm out. We also heard from Hakim Jeffrey's, the Democratic
Speaker 1: leader in the House. Very difficult to decipher his language.
Speaker 1: He says they will work with non extreme members of
Speaker 1: the Republican conference, something to that extent, but nothing specific.
Speaker 1: Although we also heard from Congresswoman Promila Jayapaul, of course,
Speaker 1: head of the UH the progressive caucus in the House.
Speaker 1: She says, it's not a democratic problem. Don't look at me.
Speaker 1: And that's where we begin our conversation with Congressman Ben Klein,
Speaker 1: the Republican from Virginia's sixth district, is with us live
Speaker 1: from Capitol Hill in a very busy Canon Office building rotunda.
Speaker 1: It's good to see you, Congressman. I wonder your thoughts
Speaker 1: on what is about to happen here and if you
Speaker 1: play and to support Speaker McCarthy.
Speaker 9: Well, it's definitely a historic day. This motion of vacate
Speaker 9: hasn't been used in about one hundred years. So it's
Speaker 9: going to be an interesting day and we'll see how
Speaker 9: things sort themselves out. It has the potential to resolve
Speaker 9: itself and continue on the road we're on, or it
Speaker 9: has the potential to be a very chaotic day and
Speaker 9: next few days.
Speaker 1: You've been known as an ally of Speaker McCarthy. Maybe
Speaker 1: you can correct me if that's not the way I
Speaker 1: should put it, even as a member of the Freedom Caucus.
Speaker 1: What will determine your decision here?
Speaker 9: Well, I supported him for Speaker, but I also applauded
Speaker 9: the reforms that the Freedom Caucus were able to get,
Speaker 9: including the ability of one member to call a motion
Speaker 9: to vacate that's being used. But I will say that
Speaker 9: the vast majority of the Freedom Caucus today have indicated
Speaker 9: that they are not going to vote to vacate the
Speaker 9: chair because it's a.
Speaker 8: Matter of timing.
Speaker 9: What we're in the middle of right now is the
Speaker 9: appropriations process. We have conservative appropriations bills moving through the floor,
Speaker 9: and do we want to interrupt that process right now
Speaker 9: to throw essentially the House into chaos because there is
Speaker 9: no backup for Speaker and right now we're trying to
Speaker 9: govern the way that we said we were going to
Speaker 9: with the all twelve appropriations bills coming to the floor,
Speaker 9: the Senate hasn't passed any and we're demonstrating that Republicans
Speaker 9: can lead if given power in the House.
Speaker 1: Did you receive assurances from the Speaker in the Republican
Speaker 1: Caucus meeting this morning that gave you faith in him
Speaker 1: going forward?
Speaker 9: Well, we don't talk about what was discussing conference, but
Speaker 9: what we will say is that the vast majority of members,
Speaker 9: the vast majority of Freedom Caucus members, have also decided
Speaker 9: that when it's a matter of timing when to call
Speaker 9: the motion of akate, whether to call the motion of
Speaker 9: a kate now is not the optimal time, since in
Speaker 9: the middle of these appropriations bills, trying to get the
Speaker 9: most conservative bills to the floor possible, if what we
Speaker 9: end up with are five moderates teaming up with Democrats,
Speaker 9: Hakim Jeffries.
Speaker 8: Is urging to vacate the chair.
Speaker 9: You have the potential for not just the same situation,
Speaker 9: or not just chaotic situation, but a much worse situation
Speaker 9: than we have now.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so it's difficult to tell if Speaker McCarthy
Speaker 1: has the votes, Congressman, though, does see have yours?
Speaker 9: Well, I'm still considering, but I will say that as
Speaker 9: a matter of timing and as a member of the
Speaker 9: Appropriation's Committee, my goal, my primary goal is putting these
Speaker 9: conservative appropriations bills on the floor and getting them through.
Speaker 9: You know, we had three of four bills passed last week.
Speaker 9: We secured our border with our Homeland Security bill, gave
Speaker 9: our troops pay raises with our Defense bill, made sure
Speaker 9: that our veterans were taken care of. Unfortunately, our agriculture
Speaker 9: bill was defeated by again moderates who didn't like the cuts.
Speaker 9: We are really trying hard to cut spending, to get
Speaker 9: rid of the woken weaponized government in these appropriations bills,
Speaker 9: and you have to ask whether now is the time
Speaker 9: to interrupt that process with a motion to vacate and
Speaker 9: select a.
Speaker 1: New speaker, well without invading your conference meeting earlier. Congressman,
Speaker 1: what do you want to hear from Kevin McCarthy. Is
Speaker 1: it a pledge to bring these single issue spending bills
Speaker 1: to the floor to avoid another cr or something altogether different.
Speaker 9: Well, we did not want to shut down, but I
Speaker 9: am not a fan of the status quo. I'm not
Speaker 9: a fan of the current forty five day CR. I
Speaker 9: voted against it because I don't support the Pelosi spending
Speaker 9: that's going on right now, and I don't support the
Speaker 9: lack of a border solution.
Speaker 8: And so what we had before that, what I voted for, was.
Speaker 9: A continuing resolution for thirty days that did include border security,
Speaker 9: that did include cuts to spending, and that was something
Speaker 9: that we could have demonstrated the American people that were
Speaker 9: moving in a different direction that we're not just treading water,
Speaker 9: and that's why maintaining the status quo is not acceptable.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying my best to understand you, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like we're making a little progress here, Congressman. If
Speaker 1: there was an assurance to have border security funding in
Speaker 1: either another CR or a piece of legislation that gets
Speaker 1: to the floor to help fund the government for a
Speaker 1: longer term, if you saw that coupled with spending cuts,
Speaker 1: you'd be behind Kevin McCarthy as speaker.
Speaker 9: Well, I think that that was the first continuing resolution
Speaker 9: that Kevin supported. He put it out there, it was
Speaker 9: ultimately defeated, and we ended up with where we are
Speaker 9: forty five days of the Pelosi spending levels put forward.
Speaker 8: My hope is that we would avoid that moving forward.
Speaker 9: The more that Kevin can reassure us that that is
Speaker 9: not what he is going to do, that he is
Speaker 9: going to push for border security, which he has, then
Speaker 9: that's going to definitely go a long way toward reassuring
Speaker 9: me that we're.
Speaker 8: On the right track.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a start here at least what happens in
Speaker 1: forty five days. We just talked about the framing of
Speaker 1: this continuing resolution. How are you looking at the next
Speaker 1: couple of weeks here, Congressman. Did we simply prolong a
Speaker 1: shutdown to the middle of November or can progress be made?
Speaker 8: Progress ken and is being made.
Speaker 9: What we saw from the Majority Leader, Steve Scalise was
Speaker 9: a calendar of how we're going to get the rest
Speaker 9: of these twelve appropriations bills through in October, and if
Speaker 9: that's interrupted by a motion of akate that's successful, then
Speaker 9: that calendar goes out the window and we're not able
Speaker 9: to get it done, and then we're facing another shutdown.
Speaker 9: So my hope is that we can get these twelve
Speaker 9: bills through that you know, we have that motion of
Speaker 9: a Kate as an option, but that we focus right
Speaker 9: now on these appropriations bills.
Speaker 1: Well, i'll tell you one of the issues, the potential
Speaker 1: problems illuminated by Matt Gates and some other Republicans, some
Speaker 1: members of your own Freedom Caucus Congressman, has been the
Speaker 1: potential for Kevin McCarthy to cut a deal with Democrats.
Speaker 1: Some see this as an example of that with the
Speaker 1: continuing resolution, is that your biggest worry now that he
Speaker 1: turns away from you and toward Hakim Jeffries.
Speaker 9: Well, he has indicated he's not willing to make any
Speaker 9: deals with Hakeem Jefferies, and Hakeem Jefferies has indicated that
Speaker 9: he wants to take McCarthy out, that he wants to
Speaker 9: remove McCarthy a speaker. So he's instructed all of his
Speaker 9: Democrats to.
Speaker 8: Vote for the motion of a Kate.
Speaker 9: So if it's Matt Gates and all of the Democrats
Speaker 9: and one or two others, then.
Speaker 8: That's where we're going to end up.
Speaker 9: But at this point, my focus, and the Speaker's focus,
Speaker 9: and the overwhelming majority of the conference's focus is on
Speaker 9: getting these conservative appropriations bills through standing up to a
Speaker 9: Democrat Senate with their appropriations process. They haven't passed a
Speaker 9: single appropriations bill and ultimately standing up to Joe Biden
Speaker 9: and removing this woken weaponized government from these appropriations bills
Speaker 9: that we're able to do through the House.
Speaker 1: You're on the Committee on Appropriations. You're also on the
Speaker 1: Budget Committee. Congressman. We can talk freedom Caucus all day long,
Speaker 1: but these are very important committees for the very issue
Speaker 1: that we're talking about when it comes to funding the government.
Speaker 1: What's the next step here? How do negotiations resume? Do
Speaker 1: you just continue with single issue spending bills until all
Speaker 1: twelve are passed, wait for a conversation with the Senate,
Speaker 1: or is there something more aggressive that can be done
Speaker 1: here in forty five days.
Speaker 9: Well, one of the things that this city understands is
Speaker 9: power and leverage. And when the House passes it's a
Speaker 9: appropriations bills and the Senate doesn't pass any and has
Speaker 9: to come to the table on how to address spending,
Speaker 9: we are at an advantage. So we want to use
Speaker 9: that advantage. We want to keep pressing on these appropriations bills.
Speaker 9: We can win on the policy and on the spending
Speaker 9: if we just press ahead, and that's what we're planning.
Speaker 8: To do this October, and it is a question of.
Speaker 9: Whether now is the right time to interrupt this process
Speaker 9: with a motion to vacate.
Speaker 1: Lastly, Congressmen, we understand that the motion to table will
Speaker 1: be up soon. It is expected to fail. Will Kevin
Speaker 1: McCarthy be Speaker by the end of the week.
Speaker 9: Well, that remains to be seen. But my hope is
Speaker 9: that we keep on our track. We've got two appropriations
Speaker 9: bills up this week, and if we can do those two,
Speaker 9: the Natural Resources, Energy and Water Ledge Branch. We've got
Speaker 9: a lot on our plate and we need to keep
Speaker 9: our eye on focused on delivering for the American people.
Speaker 1: It's great to have you with us today. Ben Klein,
Speaker 1: Republican from Virginia's sixth district, a member of the Freedom Caucus,
Speaker 1: and a real example of the conversations that are happening
Speaker 1: behind closed doors right now with decisions that have yet
Speaker 1: to be made. You hear a lot about uncharted territory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is it. We don't even know how this show
Speaker 1: is going to end right now, never mind how the
Speaker 1: day is going to end for Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Let's
Speaker 1: assemble our panel for their thoughts. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano.
Speaker 1: I'm glad are with us today, Bloomberg Politics contributors with
Speaker 1: the view from both sides of the aisle here, Rick,
Speaker 1: what do you think about the next couple of hours.
Speaker 1: We actually saw the motion to vacate filed by Matt
Speaker 1: Gates last evening, and this could take a couple of days.
Speaker 1: They have a couple of days potentially before they vote,
Speaker 1: although it could happen today. Would Kevin McCarthy be fired
Speaker 1: if that vote took place right now?
Speaker 8: Yeah, hard to tell.
Speaker 10: I mean, I think what you're interview just now with
Speaker 10: Congressman Klein indicated when he said that Hakim Jefferies has
Speaker 10: instructed his Democratic members to vote for the vacate that
Speaker 10: was news to me. I've been hearing Democrats all day
Speaker 10: long talking to the press about I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 8: I'm not thinking about it.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 8: I don't. There's a problem with the moderates.
Speaker 10: And I'll be honest, I think this is all up
Speaker 10: to the Democrats right now, because it does sound like
Speaker 10: there are four or five, maybe six Republicans who have
Speaker 10: made a conclusion that they're going to vote to vacate,
Speaker 10: and that's enough to take him out of the chair
Speaker 10: if the Democrats support that motion.
Speaker 1: I love your thoughts on this, Genie, because we did
Speaker 1: hear from Hakim Jeffries a bit earlier today. Listen to
Speaker 1: how careful the language was that he used coming from
Speaker 1: a Democratic Caucus meeting. He did not take a single question.
Speaker 11: Courage are Republican colleagues who claim to be more traditional
Speaker 11: to break from the extremists in the chaos, in the
Speaker 11: dysfunction in the extremist We are ready willing and able
Speaker 11: to work together with our Republican colleagues, but it is
Speaker 11: on them to join us to move to Congress and
Speaker 11: the country forward.
Speaker 1: He's basically saying it's on them, period. It sounds like, Genie,
Speaker 1: if you kind of read between the lines here. But
Speaker 1: my goodness, Hackem Jeffries, maybe we can't figure out here.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't figure out what ben Klein thought about
Speaker 1: this after a ten minute conversation. How about you?
Speaker 12: Yeah, that was just a fascinating conversation because you asked
Speaker 12: him pretty repeatedly, you know where he stood. Was he
Speaker 12: going to support the speaker? And he would not, you know,
Speaker 12: give you a definitive answer, which suggests to me that
Speaker 12: what we keep hearing on the Republican side, you know,
Speaker 12: there's five to seven to ten, maybe upwards of you know,
Speaker 12: maybe twenty one who would vote against the speaker. You know,
Speaker 12: there are people for whom this speaker has really really
Speaker 12: not won their support, and so it is just fascinating
Speaker 12: to hear. And on the Democratic side, what we understand
Speaker 12: coming out of the caucus is people were not inclined
Speaker 12: to save Kevin McCarthy's job given everything that has gone on.
Speaker 12: And what really seemed to sort of turn the heat
Speaker 12: up in the caucus meeting was when they played the
Speaker 12: clips of Kevin McCarthy over the weekend blaming Democrats for
Speaker 12: the shutdown or the potential shutdown, those clips of him
Speaker 12: going on TV and blaming the Democrats, And then I
Speaker 12: heard Ritchie Torres one among any many, saying, listen, if
Speaker 12: Kevin McCarthy wants our support, he's going to have to
Speaker 12: ask us, and he's going to have to deal with it,
Speaker 12: and McCarthy deal to get it rather and McCarthy doesn't
Speaker 12: seem inclined to do that. So if he's not going
Speaker 12: to ask, I don't think they're going to jump in
Speaker 12: front of the bus. To save him, and he is
Speaker 12: then going to be left hanging. It looks like, I mean,
Speaker 12: hard to know, but it doesn't look like, at least
Speaker 12: on the motion to table, Democrats are anywhere near close
Speaker 12: to pushing that or killing Matt's Gates Matt Gates's motion
Speaker 12: to vacate.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely quite the contrary. This is from Jake Sherman
Speaker 1: at punch Bowl, just posted on Twitter. I still call
Speaker 1: it Twitter. A dear colleague from Hakim Jeffries. Listen to
Speaker 1: this Rick and Jennie quote. Given their unwillingness to break
Speaker 1: from MAGA extremism in an authentic and comprehensive manner, House
Speaker 1: Democratic leadership will vote yes on the pending Republican motion
Speaker 1: to vacate the chair. Let that marinate while we listened
Speaker 1: to Primila Jaia Paul from earlier today, Stop by reporters
Speaker 1: in the hallway.
Speaker 13: This is not a Democratic problem. This is a Republican problem.
Speaker 13: They supposedly have the majority. They should be able to
Speaker 13: pick their own speaker. Our speaker is HACKEM Jeffries. It
Speaker 13: always has been, it was for fifteen rounds, it will
Speaker 13: continue to be.
Speaker 7: So does that mean I've hear that just nobody trusts
Speaker 7: Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 13: He trust Kevin McCarthy. Nobody trust Kevin McCarthy, and why
Speaker 13: should we? He has broken his commitment over and over again.
Speaker 1: This is amazing. It's the same script as Matt Gates.
Speaker 1: Nobody trusts Kevin McCarthy. Rick. When you add all of
Speaker 1: this information, it doesn't look great for him, does it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 10: Representative Ji Paul is the Democratic version of Matt Gay's
Speaker 10: and so I mean, I think the two go together.
Speaker 10: They're both of the extremes of either party, and sometimes
Speaker 10: when you stretch that circle around the extremes to touch look,
Speaker 10: I mean, this is pretty news breaking that Hakeim Jeffries,
Speaker 10: as Ben Klein just said, has instructed his caucus to
Speaker 10: support the.
Speaker 8: Motion of vacate.
Speaker 10: Now that depends upon how many want to stay in
Speaker 10: the room or how many are willing to vote present.
Speaker 10: This could go down to the wire. I think what
Speaker 10: we're watching here is a very close race.
Speaker 1: Amazing stuff. It's happening before our eyes, and we have
Speaker 1: Rick Davis and gd Shanzano to walk us through it.
Speaker 2: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 1: Remarkable day here in Washington as we wait to learn
Speaker 1: the fate of Kevin McCarthy as the Speaker of the House.
Speaker 1: The motion to vacate has been filed, and we'll see
Speaker 1: a few things happen. There's a motion to table that
Speaker 1: motion to vacate that we're going to walk through shortly,
Speaker 1: and we've got an eye on the House floor for
Speaker 1: you for when that vote actually comes up. We could
Speaker 1: be in a world in which Kevin McCarthy is no
Speaker 1: longer speaker at the end of this day. We could
Speaker 1: also be in a world in which he is more powerful,
Speaker 1: having survived it. That remains unclear. One thing we do
Speaker 1: know is that he is calling Matt Gates bluff. He
Speaker 1: talked to reporters earlier today.
Speaker 5: Look, I think Matt has planned this all along. It
Speaker 5: didn't matter what we transpired. You know, he would have
Speaker 5: done it if we were in shutdown or not. I
Speaker 5: firmly believe it's the right decision to keep government open,
Speaker 5: to make sure our military is still paid, our border
Speaker 5: agents are still paid. And if that makes a challenge
Speaker 5: based upon whether I should be speaker, I'll take that fight.
Speaker 6: So your calling is bluff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm calling his bluff. And here we are.
Speaker 1: Let's find out what happens. We talked to Ben Klein,
Speaker 1: member of the Freedom Caucus, Republican from Virginia, at the
Speaker 1: top of the hour. He voted for Kevin McCarthy as
Speaker 1: speaker and would not tell us where he would vote today.
Speaker 1: As we reassemble the panel, Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis
Speaker 1: joined Bloomberg Politics contributors with a lot in the air here,
Speaker 1: Hakim Jeffries has made it clear, Genie, and now so
Speaker 1: has Nancy Pelosi out with a statement that says, the
Speaker 1: Speaker of the House is chosen by the majority party
Speaker 1: in this Congress. It is the responsibility of House Republicans
Speaker 1: to choose a nominee and elect the speaker on the floor.
Speaker 1: At this time, there is no justification, she writes for
Speaker 1: a departure from this tradition. GENI, how important is it
Speaker 1: to hear from Nancy Pelosi right now? Having already heard
Speaker 1: from the active leader, Hakim Jeffries.
Speaker 12: I think it's critical. And we heard over the weekend
Speaker 12: that Nancy Pelosi was quietly urging Hakeim Jeffries not to
Speaker 12: go in and help save or the Democrats as a whole,
Speaker 12: save Kevin McCarthy, but she said in the end she would,
Speaker 12: of course follow the speaker. The speaker has now spoken
Speaker 12: and now has the Speaker Emeritus, Nancy Pelosi, in very
Speaker 12: strong language, and I think she really reflects what we're
Speaker 12: hearing from so many Democrats, which is number one. This
Speaker 12: has been chaotic from the start, fifteen ballots to get elected,
Speaker 12: walking us to the brink of a default, walking us
Speaker 12: to the brink of a shutdown, and now a historic
Speaker 12: motion to vacate. Not only they don't have a lot
Speaker 12: of love for Kevin McCarthy, They blame him for Donald
Speaker 12: Trump's position in the Republican Party as the leader saving
Speaker 12: him after January sixth. They blame him for renegging on
Speaker 12: their promise with Joe Biden that he made to keep
Speaker 12: the government open and the funding levels. They blame him
Speaker 12: for what he said over the weekend. I mean, they
Speaker 12: just don't trust Kevin McCarthy, and they see no reason,
Speaker 12: and they don't think their constituents were going in and
Speaker 12: saving him and keeping his speaker. And to make it worse,
Speaker 12: we're hearing he didn't even while he spoke to Jeffries,
Speaker 12: he didn't ask for their support. And I think Hattie
Speaker 12: he may get some, but if he's not willing to
Speaker 12: ask and play with them and negotiate, they're not just
Speaker 12: going to put their foot forward to save him.
Speaker 1: But Rick, this cuts both ways. Doesn't it for Democrats
Speaker 1: to turn like this? I appreciate the politics behind this,
Speaker 1: and maybe Nancy Pelosi is right the majority should pick
Speaker 1: the speaker, but Democrats get nothing done without a Speaker
Speaker 1: of the House in this case, and we've got a
Speaker 1: potential shut down what forty six days away? If my
Speaker 1: count is right here, does this potentially work against democratic
Speaker 1: priorities or I'm just I'm in another world here where
Speaker 1: the institution matters.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that she's making the same point you are.
Speaker 10: I think the difference might be timing. I think they're
Speaker 10: used to doing things when they need to quickly, like
Speaker 10: they did on the keeping the government open. So all
Speaker 10: that happened literally in the course of two hours, after
Speaker 10: weeks of built up. If if Kevin McCarthy is ousted
Speaker 10: as Speaker today, you may have a new speaker tomorrow.
Speaker 10: I mean, it doesn't take long to call for speaker's race,
Speaker 10: right Literally, almost instantaneous with his removal.
Speaker 8: Would be a vote to put a new Speaker in.
Speaker 10: And maybe they're making a calculation that a Stephen Scalise
Speaker 10: or a Tom Emmer or Patrick McHenry. McHenry, maybe these
Speaker 10: guys would be better. Maybe there's more resistance at that
Speaker 10: point to the to the to the Freedom Caucus and
Speaker 10: the MAGA team that they like to talk about. So
Speaker 10: you know, there are a lot of calculations being made.
Speaker 10: I do think Genie's right, you know, like I think
Speaker 10: that Speaker McCarthy has burned a lot of bridges. The
Speaker 10: smoldering ambers of smoked out bridges are right behind him
Speaker 10: right now, both in his caucus and with the Democrats,
Speaker 10: and so he may find out that that the way
Speaker 10: he he's handled the speakership was not enough to support
Speaker 10: his tenure for one year. I mean we're talking about
Speaker 10: ten months in and he could wind up being deposed today.
Speaker 1: Truly incredible. We asked Jim Jordan last evening on Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: He said, I don't want to be speaker, and I
Speaker 1: just wonder if any of the names that Rick just
Speaker 1: mentioned Jeannie would ever stand in front of this train,
Speaker 1: because boy, this is not for the faint of heart
Speaker 1: here obviously. And by the way, nothing's actually keeping Kevin
Speaker 1: McCarthy from running again, right well.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 12: And you know, I think one thing we forget in
Speaker 12: all of this is the speaker is not just the
Speaker 12: party leader. This is a constitutional requirement Article one, Section two.
Speaker 12: The speaker is second in line to the presidency. We
Speaker 12: have to have a speaker. It could take a long
Speaker 12: time to get there. Certainly, Kevin McCarthy could run again,
Speaker 12: you know. I know it's hard to imagine anybody wanting
Speaker 12: this job. It is a very very powerful position. So
Speaker 12: I think if the chips are down, somebody may step forward.
Speaker 12: Maybe they would be better off getting somebody who's reluctant,
Speaker 12: who can say, yeah, I'll do this for you Republicans
Speaker 12: if you don't hold my feet to the fire the
Speaker 12: way you did Kevin McCarthy. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 12: I'm not sure who would be there to want it.
Speaker 12: Right now. It is a very very tough job. As
Speaker 12: we've seen with Kevin McCarthy. But you know, it could
Speaker 12: be anybody.
Speaker 8: I know.
Speaker 12: The name we heard over the weekend was Tom Emmer,
Speaker 12: but he has said he is firmly and Kevin McCarthy's camp.
Speaker 1: Well, so is there a Machiavellian world genie in which
Speaker 1: Democrats fire or don't defend Kevin McCarthy, they let him
Speaker 1: get fired and just let the House go to hell
Speaker 1: for the next year, that this is actually about the
Speaker 1: election and retaking the majority.
Speaker 12: At this point, I think it is possible. I certainly
Speaker 12: hope that doesn't happen. I think Democrats are right to
Speaker 12: say this is a republican issue they need to resolve it.
Speaker 12: But also to your earlier point, you know, we do
Speaker 12: need a functioning con and a functioning government. And earlier today,
Speaker 12: when Hakem Jeffries was talking in one of his interviews,
Speaker 12: he did make the case that now is time to
Speaker 12: change the House rules. You don't want to let one
Speaker 12: to five seven members hold up the business of the people,
Speaker 12: and unfortunately that's what the House rules allow. And in
Speaker 12: your interview you asked client, he said he supports the
Speaker 12: rule of the motion to vacate at one I think
Speaker 12: those are the kinds of things after this chaos. If
Speaker 12: then when it's over, they really need to rethink these
Speaker 12: rules so we can have a functioning house.
Speaker 1: Well that was a product of a protracted speaker's battle, right, Rick,
Speaker 1: do you see that maybe being a good thing that
Speaker 1: emerges from this and that's the change in rules. They
Speaker 1: got to change this rule.
Speaker 10: It's a stupid rule and the only reason that was
Speaker 10: cut this way was, you know, the speaker McCarthy's desperate
Speaker 10: need for votes. I would remind everybody that the rule
Speaker 10: has changed quite a bit over time. I mean even
Speaker 10: Pelosi was under a tighter rule on this her first
Speaker 10: term is speaker. But yeah, they ought to change it.
Speaker 10: I mean, this is what he ought to be cutting
Speaker 10: deals with the Democrats to do is say, the minute
Speaker 10: this race is over, okay, say you don't get involved
Speaker 10: at all in the speakers race. Let's have the next
Speaker 10: vote be shifting the amount of votes needed to put
Speaker 10: on a motion of vacate. Because you just can't live
Speaker 10: with that knife hanging over your throat to speaker making decisions.
Speaker 10: And you get to this point, I mean, like what
Speaker 10: happens that's happened before the end of the year or
Speaker 10: before the government's shutdown gets fixed. I mean, it's a
Speaker 10: stupid way to operate. It's not at all what was
Speaker 10: envisioned by this. It took us one hundred years to
Speaker 10: get to this point. You know, ought to take us
Speaker 10: one hundred years to ever see this happen again.
Speaker 1: True enough, nineteen ten Speaker Joseph Cannon. We see lawmakers
Speaker 1: like Ben Klein earlier joining us from the Canon House
Speaker 1: office building. That's the rotunda where you see all the
Speaker 1: lawmakers do in the TV shows named for Speaker Joseph
Speaker 1: Kennon faced an unsuccessful motion to vacate that he introduced
Speaker 1: himself to prove a point. The Republican from Illinois live
Speaker 1: to see another day here as speaker, we'll see about
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us
Speaker 2: live weekdays at one Eastern.
Speaker 3: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg
Speaker 3: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to say that we have lined up some
Speaker 1: important voices to help us through this. We were plenty
Speaker 1: to speak with. As I mentioned, Congresswoman Chrissy Houlihan, the
Speaker 1: Democrat from Pennsylvania, is on the floor right now as
Speaker 1: part of this process. We hope that we will connect
Speaker 1: with her, but this is the game that we're in today.
Speaker 1: This is minute by minute. Even Kevin McCarthy actually doesn't
Speaker 1: know how this is going to end later on, and
Speaker 1: I'm glad to say that we do have Mara Gillespie
Speaker 1: with us, the founder of Bluestack Strategies, former advisor to
Speaker 1: Speaker John Bayner in Congress. Adam Kinsinger more, it's great
Speaker 1: to see you as we meet here apparently on an
Speaker 1: historic day. Do you think Kevin McCarthy has the votes
Speaker 1: to survive or is this the end?
Speaker 7: It's going to be an interesting next few minutes here.
Speaker 7: I mean the fact that Pelosi is not here to
Speaker 7: vote to aust McCarthy, which I think is kind of
Speaker 7: an interesting take here that she's missing votes. I just
Speaker 7: saw online that she's you know, racing back from the airport,
Speaker 7: but doesn't look like she's going to make it. So
Speaker 7: it's certainly something that you know, as part of this issue.
Speaker 7: Right now, all members are there to vote, and so
Speaker 7: this becomes a numbers game for Kevin McCarthy really does
Speaker 7: come down with the numbers and how he can survive
Speaker 7: the five that have said that they're not going to
Speaker 7: vote for him or they're going to vote to ask him.
Speaker 7: So it's going to be the numbers game for Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 7: But he has obviously seen that before, as we played
Speaker 7: that game in January. And it's unfortunate though, because there's
Speaker 7: so much work that he's to get done. And I
Speaker 7: know that's been repeated, but here we are again, and
Speaker 7: it's no wonder that the American people are wondering what
Speaker 7: Congress actually does.
Speaker 1: You could make the argument more that no matter what
Speaker 1: happens today, whether McCarthy's ousted or whether his job is preserved,
Speaker 1: that this could make budget negotiations even more difficult as
Speaker 1: we walk into November and another potential shutdown.
Speaker 7: How do you see it, Well, it does because what
Speaker 7: Kevin McCarthy did over the weekend, like him or not,
Speaker 7: you know, trust him or not, he got the job
Speaker 7: done and kept our government open because a government shutdown
Speaker 7: would have just been handing it to the Democrats to
Speaker 7: I mean it with every right to be you know,
Speaker 7: lamenting what Republicans failed to do, which is the job
Speaker 7: that is House of rosentaas you have to fund the government.
Speaker 7: And so Kevi McCarthy did what he had to do
Speaker 7: this weekend and shocked a lot of people, probably myself
Speaker 7: included that it got done. And then on the flip side,
Speaker 7: So going in with all that momentum and having, you know,
Speaker 7: the best case scenario, Okay, let's work together, let's put
Speaker 7: it on the Senate, Macays comes in and kind of
Speaker 7: just throws a bomb in all of it. Now whatever
Speaker 7: leverage was had is completely gone, because this just shows
Speaker 7: that they are not doing the job that they've been
Speaker 7: ellected to do. They're not actually working on the bills
Speaker 7: they're supposed to be working on. Instead, they're having this
Speaker 7: just this chaos and doesn't look like they're able to govern.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it's entirely possible. We understand that Nancy Pelosi may
Speaker 1: not make this vote. It's not a long ride from
Speaker 1: the airport, but I can assure you the traffic today
Speaker 1: is miserable. I want to ask you about your experience
Speaker 1: though with Speaker Bayner, who knew about emotion to vacate.
Speaker 1: Believe it was Congresome Meadows who brought that to the floor.
Speaker 1: It wasn't privileged and it was never voted on, but
Speaker 1: you were part of that office when that feeling was
Speaker 1: in the air. What's happening inside the Speaker's office today,
Speaker 1: it's very stressful.
Speaker 7: It's also very frustrating because people are just trying to
Speaker 7: do their jobs and fight the bigger fight and what
Speaker 7: this in house fighting, This in conference fighting is super frustrated,
Speaker 7: especially because it's done publicly.
Speaker 6: Kind of you know, you want to keep your fights
Speaker 6: in the family. That's both sides. We want to try
Speaker 6: and do as much as possible.
Speaker 7: But when you have someone like a mac Gates who
Speaker 7: is really just thinking about himself and only himself, that's
Speaker 7: almost impossible to deal with. And again, you know, mac
Speaker 7: Gates is loving this moment because he's getting this attention
Speaker 7: and he loves that there's only a five seat majority.
Speaker 6: He needs that over Kevin McCarthy. That's how he's holding
Speaker 6: the whole conference hostage.
Speaker 7: So for me, I remember, obviously I have certain feelings
Speaker 7: about Mark Meadows, because I do. Again, you see right
Speaker 7: through it. You see that it's an attention seeking effort.
Speaker 7: It's to appease a small portion of what they think
Speaker 7: is their base.
Speaker 6: Mark meadows. Again, if anyone.
Speaker 7: Read John Bayner's book, came groveling in, crying on his knees.
Speaker 7: And that's just to just tell you everything about what
Speaker 7: they're really doing on the public facing aspect and then
Speaker 7: what they are saying behind closed doors. I don't think
Speaker 7: there's any love lost between Macgate's and Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 6: But again, this is just Matt.
Speaker 7: Gate's trying to, you know, seck up all the oxygen
Speaker 7: and get in front of the cameras. And in that
Speaker 7: sense he's succeeding. But in doing the job that he
Speaker 7: was allowed to do, he is miserably failing.
Speaker 1: Wow, think of the scene that work Willspie just described
Speaker 1: for us. So that's another way of saying as well,
Speaker 1: relationships are being redefined, lines are being drawn. If Kevin
Speaker 1: McCarthy survives this, what happens to somebody like Matt Gates.
Speaker 7: He will continue to Unfortunately for us, I mean for
Speaker 7: the Republica Party, he's going to continue to do this.
Speaker 7: He's going to bring up this motion to vacate because
Speaker 7: he has the ability to do so with the rules
Speaker 7: that were set in January, and to continue to fundraise
Speaker 7: off of it, which is the end of the day.
Speaker 6: That's really what he is doing.
Speaker 7: He's been fundraising off of it, and this weekend he
Speaker 7: did a media blitz on the Sunday shows and fundraised
Speaker 7: off of that.
Speaker 6: So he's just campaigning off of.
Speaker 7: It, partially to build up his own profile, his own brand,
Speaker 7: but also to account for any impending legal bills that
Speaker 7: will be coming his way when he has this ethics
Speaker 7: complaint investigation that's been renewed, and he'll need a kind
Speaker 7: of account for that. So it's unfortunately the relationship is
Speaker 7: not going to repair itself. This is more just about
Speaker 7: the prerogatives of MATC. Gates versus Kevin McCarthy. And I
Speaker 7: will also point out Democrats. It was a different situation
Speaker 7: when it was John Bainner as Speaker, or even when
Speaker 7: it was Paul Ryan a speaker. But when John Bayner
Speaker 7: was Speaker, there was a level of respect and appreciation.
Speaker 7: They might not have agreed with his policies, obviously the
Speaker 7: Democrats are not, but they respected that John Bayner would
Speaker 7: get the job done and do what it was in
Speaker 7: the best interest of the whole House. And I would
Speaker 7: just say that there's a handful of Democrats, if not all,
Speaker 7: who don't have that same faith and confidence in a
Speaker 7: Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 2: Boy.
Speaker 1: That's something else. It looks like this vote is being
Speaker 1: delayed here. It's interesting that, Yeah, Matt Gates needs five votes, right,
Speaker 1: and there are five Democrats missing, So this actually could
Speaker 1: be put on the table for a moment and we'll
Speaker 1: let you know how that goes. Just another reminder, mora
Speaker 1: of how thin this margin is, right, Yeah, and we.
Speaker 7: Saw that, you know in twenty fifteen when it was
Speaker 7: brought up. You know, there was a there's a funeral
Speaker 7: happening in New York, and so the numbers were different
Speaker 7: because there were a handful of members of the New
Speaker 7: York delegation, both Republicans and Democrats, that were up in
Speaker 7: New York and so they weren't available for the vote.
Speaker 7: So the number game is really important, especially when you
Speaker 7: have a thin majority, as Kevin McCarthy does in the
Speaker 7: Republican conference. But again, you know what's so frustrated too,
Speaker 7: and I'm sure it's frustrating for people at home going
Speaker 7: what is happening? Why can't they just do their jobs?
Speaker 7: You know, you have decades and people have asked him,
Speaker 7: what's your plan here?
Speaker 6: What's the plan, and there isn't one. Right.
Speaker 7: He is going into this knowing that there isn't a
Speaker 7: plan for if he were to succeed. He has no
Speaker 7: idea what would happen next. And that's what's scary to
Speaker 7: me is you have people in Congress who don't actually
Speaker 7: want Congress to work. That's a problem and people should
Speaker 7: be really alarmed by that.
Speaker 1: Huh Maura. Thank you, Mora Gillespie. It's great to have
Speaker 1: you back a Republican Strategists found where Bluestack Strategies worked
Speaker 1: with Speaker John Bayner and Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe
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