1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: It is Bloomberg Business Week, and our next guest is 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: a correspondent for CBS Sunday Morning, a frequent a panelist 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: on NPR's Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me the host, and 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: of course of cooking channels My Grandmother's Ravioli spent years 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: earlier in his career as a correspondent on The Daily Show, 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: as well as on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: going There's More, There's more, Okay. New York Times bestselling 8 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: author of Mobituaries, Great Lives Worth Reliving, a companion to 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: his podcast of the same name. He's got a new book. 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: It's out last week. It's called Rock to Genarians, Late Life, 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: Late in Life, Debuts, Comebacks and Triumphs. We have Morocca 12 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: with us, but I'm afraid the interviews over. 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: We've run out of time. 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: We just did your whole. 15 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 3: Introduction and we didn't even get to my Broadway credits. 16 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: Not yet. 17 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: I've seen you dance. 18 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 3: How are you just saying? 19 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: Well, we'll talk about that offline. Welcome Malca. We've been 20 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: you know, Tim and I've had some fun over the 21 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: weekend going through the book. It's really fun. Becused you can. 22 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: I kind of started in the beginning, I went to 23 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: the back. You could just kind of open and read 24 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: some different stories. I want to ask them a little 25 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: bit about your career. You've had many chapters already as 26 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: we just kind of laid out. And I have to 27 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: say a producer of ours brought this to our attention. 28 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: Wishbone the Dog played by Soccer the Dog. Yes, you 29 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: did an obituary about soccer efforts. He was gone. It 30 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: was a show for kids, your first job in TV. 31 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 4: It was my first job, and it is the toolbox 32 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 4: I keep going back to all the time. Honestly, I 33 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 4: don't want to sound too grand about it talking about 34 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 4: being a storyteller, but really that job was storytelling boot 35 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 4: camp because we a very small writing staff had to 36 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 4: take classic novels and break them down into half hour 37 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 4: episodes as seen through the eyes of a Jack Russell 38 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 4: Terrier a dog for kids between the ages of six 39 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 4: and eleven. It was like a writing assignment devised by 40 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 4: an English professor on acid and it was just the 41 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 4: best way to learn how. 42 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: We're showing everybody the dog. For those who are watching 43 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: on YouTube and Bloomberg, he was averat dog. 44 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: This is like a commencement address really the idea that 45 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: your first job is the toolkit as you've had this 46 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: amazing career that you continue to go back to over 47 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: and over again. It's remarkable to hear because everybody says, 48 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, your first job, it's not going to be 49 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: your last job, don't worry about it, but it will 50 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: have an effect on who you become. 51 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 4: Oh and you know my boss there, she gave me 52 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 4: some real tough love because I sort of thought, oh, 53 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 4: I don't really know what I'm doing, and so my 54 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 4: scripts were kind of half baked, and she said, you 55 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 4: just had to figure this out. And she took a 56 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 4: couple of books on really screenwriting and she just threw 57 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 4: them down on my desk. At one point she said, 58 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 4: figure it out because this is a great opportunity. And 59 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 4: it was a great opportunity in part peak of six 60 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 4: to eleven year olds. You can't fool them. And so 61 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 4: you can't just write a lazy script with characters just 62 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 4: kind of talking to each other. It has to be 63 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 4: really lean and dynamic, and the action has to keep 64 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 4: moving forward or they'll lose interest. So it was a 65 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 4: really great audience to have to write for What. 66 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 2: Is it about getting snapshot of you know, people's lives, 67 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: you know individuals, great works, as you did with you 68 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: did with Wishbone. What is it about? Kind of like 69 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: telling vignettes that you love doing because you do this, 70 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: it's obviously in this book. 71 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I mean, it's sort of the same 72 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 4: thing that drew me to obituaries, which were which was 73 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 4: the subject of my last book and podcast A good 74 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 4: obituaries about someone's life, not their death. And I love 75 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 4: a good life. 76 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: STU love reading obituaries especially, Yeah, but go ahead. 77 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 4: No, he's a good obituary sort of like the trailer 78 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 4: for an Oscar winning biopic. It has a sweep, a drama, romance, 79 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 4: the highs, the lows, the triumphs and tragedies. And my 80 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 4: father was a real romantic and a very optimistic person, 81 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 4: very boyant, and so he loved to read growing up 82 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 4: in the Washington, DC area when there were two daily papers, 83 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 4: he just he would say, oh boy, the oh it's 84 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 4: just my favorite section of the paper. So I just 85 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 4: love a person's story. 86 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 3: It's hard. I'm not sure how was to put it. 87 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: YEA, yeah, do they also though, teach us about how 88 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: we want to live our lives completely completely. 89 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 4: I mean, there are times that I've been a competitive 90 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 4: oh bit writer, Like you're sort of reading an oh 91 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 4: bit and then you go, oh my god, he did 92 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 4: all that by the time he was twenty five. 93 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: Right, not to make it all about the person who's 94 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: not dead, but. 95 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 4: Right, I know, but it's hard to not to sometimes 96 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 4: and then you're like, oh my god, he want a 97 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 4: prison at thirty five. 98 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: I'm doing fine, there's this metric going. 99 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: But I mean, in this case, I mean, my co 100 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 4: author and I wanted to tell stories of people who 101 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 4: accomplished great things late in life because obviously old age, 102 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 4: advanced age is very much in the news, a very 103 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 4: hot topic, not just in politics, but as the population ages. 104 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's I would say for myself, like 105 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: I think as I've gotten older, history in general is interesting, 106 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: but also I think about the older folks that have 107 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: been in my lives, Like I love hearing about their 108 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 2: stories and kind of what they had to go through. 109 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: Having said that, sometimes having it's the folks that you 110 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 2: write about. Sometimes it's their first chapter, sometimes it's the 111 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: second chapter. Sometimes it's the third chapter. Kind of talk 112 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: to us a little bit about that, right, It's not 113 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: sometimes their first. 114 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 4: Act, right, or sometimes it is, well exactly, it's a variety. 115 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 4: It's I mean, it's debuts, comebacks, and sort of it's 116 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 4: capstones a lot of architects. It's one of these amazing 117 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: things that architects just keep getting better and better. And 118 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 4: I think there are a couple of practical reasons. If 119 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 4: you're doing a commission for a big, expensive building, you 120 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 4: want somebody with experience, right, You don't want necessary probably 121 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 4: don't want a young starter architect, and more Architects of 122 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 4: advanced age also are likely to have a staff doing 123 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 4: a lot of the grant work by that point. But 124 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 4: all of these people have in common that they don't 125 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: accept this very strange, pervasive and kind of insidious message 126 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 4: that your third act of life is a time to 127 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 4: kind of wind things down. I'm not sure where that 128 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 4: came from. And also, I mean, we're going to continue 129 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 4: living longer and longer, I mean, if we're fortunate and 130 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 4: have good health, decent healthcare. There are also people that 131 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 4: don't look backwards. They're very in it, not doing victory laps. 132 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 4: They're not sitting at home playing highlight reels of their 133 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 4: you know, great achievements. And that's Okay, if you want 134 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 4: to do that, if you you know, if you want 135 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 4: to do that and hang out and just reminisce. 136 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: But that's not what these people in this book do. 137 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: I want to get to some of the stories in 138 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: just a few minutes, but before we do that, talk 139 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: a little bit about the organization of the book, because 140 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: it reads in a really interesting way. 141 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: I have learned from the best at CBS Sunday Morning, 142 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 4: which is a forty five year old arts and culture 143 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 4: show on on CBS. My executive producer, Rand Morrison believes 144 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: very much in mix show mix like you have to 145 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 4: and part of that is surprises. So you go from 146 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 4: I'm proud that the book includes Henri Matisse and Clara 147 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: Peller that whares the beef Lady and a tortoise. 148 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: Mister, you're going to get to miss Trafic. 149 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 4: You had to get to miss the first time fout 150 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 4: there at ninety take that al Pacino. But like, but, 151 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: but so, mix is very important. I think everything I 152 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 4: think when you turn the page, you want to be. 153 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm big into delight like you know on 154 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 4: my open I would just wanted to be like Morocca, 155 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 4: who delighted audience has died today. He was one hundred 156 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 4: and sixteen. 157 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: But like, but but so that that's a big part 158 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: of it. So it's not chronological. 159 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 4: We just we just wanted it to have a decent 160 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 4: mix so that you know, it's I almost give it 161 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 4: in terms of protein and carbs. Like some stories have 162 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 4: import and kind of grandeur, like married church Terrelle the 163 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: civil rights leader at the age of eighty six, led 164 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 4: sittings segregated, watching DC lunch counters. But that's a good 165 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 4: like felling nutritious, I mean really story. And then you 166 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 4: want something just kind of busy and fund Carol Channing 167 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 4: Finding Love at eighty two. 168 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: You know, well, we've got about a minute and then 169 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: we'll come back and talk some more. You said you 170 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: want a surprise and delight, Like, is there one name 171 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: in particular that you think, like, I feel like you 172 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: just gave us some names that could surprise and delight, 173 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: But is there one name in particular that you think 174 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: people might be surprised to see. 175 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: In this book? 176 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 4: Oh, surprised to see beyond mister Pickles, beyond mister Yoda. 177 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 4: Oh well, John Henry the Thoroughbred. Maybe I mean I'm 178 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 4: going to non humans here. 179 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: I love that you did a bunch like horses. 180 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 4: Horses right, because we had to pick yeah because in 181 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 4: horse years, you know, or Snowman, the show jumper at 182 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 4: eleven might as well have been one hundred in human years. 183 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 4: I also think there has to be an element of warmth. 184 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: You need warmth. 185 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 4: And the story of Frank McCourt, I think is just 186 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 4: I mean, I become moved just even thinking about someone 187 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 4: who spent his life struggling with how to tell his story, 188 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 4: thinking that his story wasn't worth telling, being ashamed of 189 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 4: growing up poor in Ireland, and then finally getting this 190 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 4: story out of him because in his own wards, he 191 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: would have died howling if he hadn't. 192 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: It is fascinating. There's just so many different names. There 193 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: are names people will definitely know, there are names that 194 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 2: people might not. How did you go about figuring out 195 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 2: who you wanted to include? 196 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 4: Well, I didn't want to go I hate to start 197 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 4: with what I didn't want to do, but I didn't 198 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 4: want to go to entertainment heavy. There are actors Rita 199 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 4: Moreno whom I've interviewed before, and. 200 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 2: Who's a pistol? 201 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 4: Who is really a pistol? I mean she's amazing at 202 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 4: ninety two, Morgan Freeman, because I love the Electric Company 203 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 4: and they both were on it and they kind of 204 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 4: have intertwined lives. By law, we had to include at 205 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 4: least one golden girl. I think we would have been 206 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 4: arrested if we didn't. And Estelle Getty was a story 207 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 4: to tell because she had her television debut at sixty two, 208 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 4: really after a life of kind of raising her family 209 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 4: and doing every little. 210 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: Bit of off off Broadway theater she could. 211 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 4: So, I mean, it just seemed right that she should 212 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 4: have this amazing, iconic role at the end. But we 213 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 4: wanted to make sure that there was a real range 214 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 4: of people. 215 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 3: So one of the things. 216 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: I'm interested is sort of people who are obviously respected 217 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 4: but kind of famous in sort of worlds, if you will. 218 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 4: So I called my friend Scott Erlik, whose family worked 219 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 4: in winemaking for many years, and I said, who is 220 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 4: someone in the wine making world that's just remarkable for 221 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 4: his longevity and he's without skipping a bat, he said, 222 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 4: Mark Urgitic is the guy, a Croatian immigrant, an immigrant 223 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 4: promost in Yugoslavia, and he was alive at the time. 224 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 4: He only died last year. Right before our publication, So 225 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 4: he was active up until the age of one hundred. 226 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 4: And I love the fact that he was really the 227 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 4: reason this amazing immigrant story that American specifically California wines 228 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 4: when you know, became contenders the Judgment of Paris in 229 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy six, when American wines and French wines were 230 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 4: competed against each other in a blind taste test in 231 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 4: Paris organized by kind of a wag of a British 232 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 4: promoter who expected it to be a runaway French victory, 233 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 4: and both the red and white Americans. The white from 234 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 4: Gurkic's winery won, shocked the world to change the world 235 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: of wine. And I just loved his story. And and 236 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 4: he's somebody who had persevered throughout his life but enlightened 237 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 4: to his life bringing wine making in a very elevated 238 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 4: way back to his homeland of Croatia. So it had 239 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 4: a beautiful full circle. 240 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you also stumble on names when you're reading the 241 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: book and you say, wait a second, I've always seen 242 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: a Roget's thesaurus on a bookshelf or as a college student, 243 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: I had no idea. There was a guy named Rose 244 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: and he was old when he wrote it. 245 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 4: He was, he was, and I keyed into him because 246 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 4: I love making lists myself, and you know, I know 247 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 4: the capital of every country in the world, and I 248 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: used to do strange things. 249 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: Don't make us quizy, I know, I know. 250 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: Please where do I go? Where do we don't throw 251 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: out a random country name? Please don't do that. 252 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 4: Okay, she would, she's she's thinking Brunei and the capital's 253 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 4: bandar seri bega want so off? 254 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: Okay? 255 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 3: And Tim, Now you ask, what's the capital of Djibouti? 256 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: Jabooty? 257 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: The capital jibutis jawbooty. Trick question, That's okay, okay, but okay. 258 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 4: I used to do make crazy lists and like I say, 259 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 4: waterways near state capitals, that's one. But anyway, Peter Mark 260 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 4: Roge did the same thing as a child, I think 261 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 4: for different reasons. I did it because I was just 262 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 4: maybe sort of curious and strange, which are synonyms, right, 263 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 4: And he did. He had a lot of tragedy and 264 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 4: his like personal loss, and one of his biographers believe 265 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 4: it was a way of coping. But he returned to 266 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 4: these lists that he had been working on at the 267 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 4: age of seventy three and published the rog Stosaurus, and 268 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 4: until the age of ninety he kept refinding it and 269 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 4: working on it, and so that's sort of an unfinished business, 270 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 4: which is something I like. A lot of these stories 271 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 4: are people in a sense returning to childhood in more 272 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 4: obvious ways, with Frank McCord and lore Ingalls Wilder, who 273 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 4: brought us to the Little House books by writing about 274 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 4: their quite literal childhoods. But then people like the concert 275 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 4: pianist ruts Lynchinska. As a child, she was called the 276 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 4: Shirley Temple of classical music. And this is a woman 277 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 4: who at the age of nine she had subbed for 278 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: Rockman and Off Okay, and I interviewed her when she 279 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 4: was ninety seven pace she had an album come out. 280 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 3: I interviewed for CBS. But what I found was a 281 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 3: woman who had been really. 282 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 4: Tormented by her father as a child prodigy and had 283 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 4: the piano was a punishment, and she was just so 284 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 4: enormously talented, and he was brutal to her. She wasn't 285 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 4: She literally was not allowed to play with dolls or 286 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 4: go outside and play with other kids. And much later 287 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 4: in life she returned to the piano on her own 288 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 4: terms and learned to love it for the sake of itself. 289 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 4: And I found that so beautiful. 290 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 2: I don't even know that there's no easy segue here, 291 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: but the founding fathers of comedy. I mean, we have 292 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: some guys who have been making us laugh for decades. Yeah, 293 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: and I know some have passed away, and I think 294 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: about Norman Lear, but you dig into what they've been doing. 295 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 4: Well, Norman Lear, mel Brooks, and Carl Reiner, who were 296 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 4: all good friends. And I got to know Norman moderately well. 297 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 4: I would say he was a friend by the end 298 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 4: of his life. And together, when you think of their 299 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: body of work, they are largely responsible for at least 300 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 4: a big part of what we actually laugh at. I mean, 301 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 4: Carl Reiner with the Dick Van Dyke Show, really did 302 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 4: help create the modern situation comedy. And you know, and 303 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 4: then Norman Lear made sure that it actually said something. 304 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 4: And this is an undeniably culturally Jewish thing and that 305 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 4: needs to be celebrated and acknowledged for what they did 306 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 4: and what they have given us. So much of what 307 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 4: we laugh at and think is funny comes from them. 308 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty remarkable. And you know, mel Brooks 309 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 4: is still going mel Brooks is very different than the 310 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 4: other two because I think mel Brooks there was a 311 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: grumpiness about him. A lot of what drove him was 312 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: anger at injustice, the horrors of the Holocaust. I mean, 313 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 4: making fun of Hitler, knocking him off his pedestal was 314 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 4: a real driving force of what behind what Melbrooks. 315 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: Did for example. 316 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yep, it's really remarkable. 317 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to ask you about those who misspent 318 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: their old age. 319 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a whole chapter here about folks that some 320 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: of whom are household names, some aren't, who misspent their 321 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: their old age. One of those, you argue, is Rudy Giuliani. 322 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 4: Rudy Giuliani. You know, this chapter is comprised of people 323 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: that you think all you had to do is do nothing. 324 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 3: Just enjoy the. 325 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 4: Laurels, take those victory laps, just you know, first second, 326 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 4: and finally, just do no harm. And Rudy Giuliani, there's 327 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 4: certainly his mayoralty can be addressed, but I don't think 328 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 4: it's debatable that the city was in key measures better 329 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 4: off once he finished his mayor than it was in 330 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 4: the beginning. You know, I think when he became Person 331 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 4: of the Year for Time, it wasn't just an acknowledgment 332 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 4: for how he handled the aftermath of nine to eleven. 333 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 4: I think it was also for how he had shown 334 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 4: that a city could be governed, which is something that 335 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 4: had been in some doubt. I think that a city 336 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 4: like New York could be governed. And then his behavior 337 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 4: since then, and with the twenty twenty election and the 338 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 4: Georgia election workers and there's a reason he is bankrupt. 339 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 4: I don't know if he's legally bankrupt. You can correct 340 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 4: me on that if he's declared bankruptcy. 341 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of stuff still going on in 342 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: terms of it. 343 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, he really could have just done nothing and been okay. 344 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: How about okay, we've just got about a minute or 345 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: so left here. I mean, going through this and all 346 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: the reporting you've done as a journalist and these stories, like, 347 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: does any of it make you think differently about how 348 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: you want to live? 349 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 3: Yes? 350 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 4: And I think this is happening anyway. One of the 351 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 4: unexpected things of getting older. I'm fifty five now is 352 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 4: that I'm actually and I'm happy to report, fretting less 353 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 4: about the future, which I think would I didn't expect 354 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 4: that to happen. I think I would think that the 355 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 4: less time you have on the other side had the 356 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 4: more you'd reread. I'm not, and I think that that's 357 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 4: a characteristic of a lot of these people. So I'm 358 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 4: a little freer to act. 359 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: I'm less, and I think in a way it's you 360 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: might as. 361 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 4: Well act now because people's memories are short, and when 362 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 4: you're gone, your children, your loved ones will remember you, 363 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 4: hopefully for at least a little bit of time, hopefully, 364 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 4: but you might as well act now, enjoy life, and 365 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 4: be in the present because it goes by quickly. 366 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: No, you're right being the present, and don't be afraid 367 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: to do new things right even as you get older. 368 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 4: And I'm also trying to speak more deliberately in sentences 369 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 4: that can be diagrammed instead of just run on crazy 370 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 4: sentences where I'm just filling space. 371 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: Want to let you go, Capital of Slovenia, Lilub Diana. 372 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: Okay, just making sure that's it just sounded like a 373 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: made up aside. 374 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: Just keeping just keeping you on on us here. 375 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: We might be emailing. 376 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: It was I was actually just slurring, but okay. 377 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: Well, Raka, thank you so much. Inspiring and really thoughtful 378 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: and just fun to read. Roctagenarians with Jonathan Greenberg, Late 379 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: in life, debuts, comebacks, and tribes. Thank you so much.