WEBVTT - Potential for Nuclear Energy to Power AI Datacenters 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.160 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.760 Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:15.800 All right, there's something we really want to get to 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.040 and we've been looking forward to it, and this has 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.760 to do with nuclear power, energy demand meeting the increased demand. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:24.000 Let me throw out some statistics. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:24.400 Let's hear. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.240 I'm Carol us. Demand for electricity will surge almost sixteen 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.440 percent over the next five years, more than triple the 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.960 estimate from one year ago, driven by new data centers 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:34.879 and factories that are going to sec up power. This 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.440 is according to the energy consulting group Grid Strategies. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:38.639 Tim. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:40.400 Yeah, this has been on top of your mind because 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.840 you moderated this panel at the Nuclear Energy Institute's Financing 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.440 Institute to talk all about that power demand and where 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.320 the supply will come from and the role that nuclear 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.640 energy is helping to meet that demand. You've kind of 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.000 been like, not stop talking about nuclear power. It was 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:55.560 really where were you ten years ago? 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.840 It was a really fun conversation. All Right, all right, 0:00:57.880 --> 0:00:58.960 I'm a little slow to the party. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:00:59.200 You know. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.920 What I'm saying is the tone has shifted so much 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.080 just in the last decade. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.399 It's remarkable, and really I would say a lot of 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.080 momentum in the last year or year and a half, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.360 especially because of the AI demands with us from Washington, DC. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.319 Is the president and CEO of ANYI. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.240 It's the Nuclear Energy Institute is Maria korsnik Anyi by 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.399 the way, the lobbying arm of the nuclear power industry. 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:22.679 Maria, thanks for your patience. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.600 Newsflow does not stop, as you well know, including in 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:31.280 your industry. What is the nuclear energy industry preparing for 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.720 over the next few years and be as specific as 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.520 you can, because I think time frame is important here. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:38.120 Yeah. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.920 Well, thank you Carol for having me, and again thank 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.319 you for participating in our finance conference. 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:44.920 We just saw each other a few days ago in 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.640 New York City. Let me just get right to your point. 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.680 Right in the next two years, we're expecting at least 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:57.240 four grid scale applications for four different sites, a handful 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:02.880 of microreactor applications, life sites with construction activities in flight, 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.680 and two microreactor startups. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:07.040 So when I say that. 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.600 Nuclear is moving, I just want you to feel that 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.600 not only is the R and D which we were 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.160 going to be very thankful to our national labs have 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.160 brought a lot of different ideas to the marketplace, but 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.400 you're actually now seeing it go into site applications and 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.400 construction applications to get things moving. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.760 What do you say, what would you say is the 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:34.320 difference between the Biden administration's approach to nuclear energy versus 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.240 the Trump administration's approach nuclear energy? How did things change 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:37.880 in January? 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:39.840 So that's interesting. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.120 You know, this is maybe one of the only things, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.040 but one of the very few things that gets bipartisan support. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.640 And interesting if you think about nuclear right and you say, hey, 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:54.800 well it's very reliable. You know, it's clean, it's carbon free, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.600 it has jobs. You know, like there's enough in there 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.720 to love on both sides of the aisle. On the 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:02.960 Democrat side, you're going to get it more for the 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.600 carbon free aspect of it. On the Republican side, you're 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.880 going to get it more for the energy security, national security, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.240 high reliability of the energy source. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.840 And both sides love the jobs. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.440 So talk to a little bit more about the build out, 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.360 you know, you kick things off with, you know, things 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.240 that are happening now. I feel like from the conversation 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:27.040 and listening at the event last week that realistically, a 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.400 lot of folks said, when we really think about nuclear energy, 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.480 while the US is active, that it's still a very 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:38.120 small portion of our electricity generation, right in terms of 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.880 a power provider, that that build out might be eight 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.680 to ten years away. You're in it, you're talking to 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.160 the players that are in it. What is the realistic 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.720 timeframe that it is a substantial or more substantial part 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.520 of a generation of power here in the United States. 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.720 So today nuclear is about twenty percent, just under twenty 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.640 percent of the general and so I would say, you know, 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.920 that's a significant portion. But to your point, let's talk 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.200 about all of that demand. And you mentioned earlier the 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.680 AI demand that's really getting into the marketplace. 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.400 But you know, it's not just AI, it's. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:22.200 Also ensuring, manufacturing, it's also you know, the fact that 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.719 you want to build out the clean energy supply that 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.080 we have today. And so all of that together is 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.200 really driving this demand much higher than what we had 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.840 imagined even just a few years ago. The next few years, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.960 you're going to see ones and twos of things built, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.359 think pilot projects over. 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:42.040 The next few years. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.920 And I think in the twenty thirties and the twenty forties, 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.280 a very significant buildout. And I want to add it's 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.480 not just a buildout in the United States. The conversation 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.240 we're having about nuclear it's happening around the globe. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:56.880 Well, and why is it so important? 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.600 Because yeah, that is something certainly that came up at 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.400 your vent last week that you know, look at Europe, 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.240 look at France, look at China, look at various nations 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.559 in terms of their percentage of power generation being larger 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:12.960 than what it is in the United States. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:13.880 If the US. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:18.600 Doesn't have a role in this area, what does that mean? 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.080 Yeah, so let's just try that on for size. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.400 Who is interested in building a lot of commercial nuclear 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.880 Russia and China, and they're not only interested in building 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.279 it in their own country. Today right now Russia is 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.279 building nuclear plants in ten other countries. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:37.920 And why is that. 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.880 Well, it wasn't too long ago where we saw Russia 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.160 turn off the gas supply to Europe. So I would 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.880 tell you there's a geopolitical strategy on some countries that 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.160 would like to control other countries energy supply, and why 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.920 should we fall for that? So we have fantastic technology, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.400 we have the ability to really help our allies and 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.800 in that way, we protect them from this kind of behavior. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.440 And you know, it would be sad to see this 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.160 replicated in ten to twenty years we look back and say, oh, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.440 why do they have the power over commercial nuclear industry? 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.520 Why do they have the power over all of these 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.320 different countries. We shouldn't let ourselves get there. So from 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.640 a national security perspective, from an energy security perspective, the 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.360 United States needs to lead in commercial nuclear power. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.080 I think if you think about what happened over the 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.160 last ten to fifteen years, there may have been some 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.479 concern about nuclear stemming from the earthquake in Japan and 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.680 what happened in the wake of Fukushima here in the 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.400 US three Mile Island, and then of course Chernobyl back 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.719 in the nineteen eighties. What would you say to somebody 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.200 who's watching right now, who's listening right now, and says, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.440 you know what, I'm still not convinced this is a 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:47.280 safe alternative. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.400 So I've been in the commercial nuclear industry for forty years. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.599 I'm a nuclear engineer. I visited Fukushima after the accident. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.120 I talked to the operators that were there. We brought 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.839 all of the chief nuclear officers from Japan to the 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.600 United States to meet with the chief nuclear officers here, 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.240 very very intimate with exactly what went on there, and 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.239 I can tell you with all assurances that the United 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.239 States absolutely would. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.480 Not have a Fukushima style accident. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.280 I would also tell you, and I was just in 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.920 a japan roundtable conversation earlier today, that the Japanese are 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:25.040 restarting their plants and the Japanese are talking about building 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:29.080 new nuclear plants. So the country that was most connected 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:34.760 to that particular situation has also reassessed and value that 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.520 nuclear can bring to them and their reliable energy and 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:42.520 clean energy supply. I have worked at our nuclear plants 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.280 and I would not hesitate to live next to any 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.600 of the nuclear plants in the United States. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.200 They are very very safe technology. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:52.880 One thing though, I do want to ask you, though, 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:53.320 you know. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.560 The other thing is that it's complicated, and you know 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.360 it comes up, you know, Maria, anytime we talk about 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.240 nuclear energy. First of all, I do think about clientlimate 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.480 change and the natural disasters, and so the placement of 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.960 nuclear plants, whether it makes it more trickier in terms 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.160 of whether or not they'll be resilient to climate change disasters. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.320 The other thing is nuclear waste. It feels like we 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.040 still have not figured out a really long term solution 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.920 to that. How do we think about that, because it 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.040 hasn't really evolved in figuring that one out. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.120 So I would tell you from a nuclear waste perspective, 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.320 it is safely stored wherever it is today. What you're 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.640 mentioning is we haven't figured out a single place for 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:39.360 us all to put our current used fuel in. And 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.680 that's true. Other countries have. I just went to Finland 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.600 last year. They opened up their deep geologic repository. We 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.280 are more than capable of figuring this out. It's not 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.280 a scientific problem. We have to just figure out where 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.280 we would like to cite this and do so and 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.000 do so safely. The other thing I would add is 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.800 that I think very much in our future there's likely 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.400 go to be reprocessing. Today we don't reprocess. I think 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.200 tomorrow we will. And the thing that we call waste 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.240 today it's a future resource, and it's going to be 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.520 a fantastic opportunity to take that future resource and get 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.800 more use out of it and then store what ultimately 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.440 we don't need, and it'll be a small fraction of 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:21.320 what we have today. 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.120 It's interesting to hear that because we've had so many 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.480 years to decide on and find a solution for this. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.719 But literally nobody wants this in their backyard. They don't 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.320 want it at Yucka Mountain, they don't want it in 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.160 other parts where if we can't find a place to 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:38.160 put it, where do we put it? 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.880 Well, actually, I think we're really going to change the equation. 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.199 You know, your grandkids and their grandkids, they're going to 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.240 look at this very differently. They're going to look at 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.199 it as the resource that it is. I can tell 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.200 you I know because I already have members that have 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.600 businesses that are interested to my words, mind this use fuel. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.320 There's things in this use fuel that they would like 0:09:59.440 --> 0:09:59.760 to get. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.280 I would like to get because they're coming up with 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.120 a probe that's going to go in outer space. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:05.600 So they're going to put a probe. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.360 And it's going to go deep down into the ocean, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.840 and there's things in this fuel that would be helpful 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.679 to them. And if you think about space and us 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.160 going other places, whether going to the Moon or we're 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.360 going to Mars again, there's things in this that that 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.840 can be helpful. There's companies that have already formed around 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:27.040 trying to do the reprocessing equation, if you will, coming 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.720 up with new ways to do that. We have a 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.520 company that's part of any I today that is interested 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.120 in inventing a new reactor. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.120 They're well on their way. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.320 They already want to use the used fuel as part 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.240 of their fuel, so they are interested very much in 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.120 taking used fuel and changing it to something that they 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.800 can use. So I just want you to feel that 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.280 the whole conversation around this thing that we call waste 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.760 is very much changing. Is it going to change tomorrow, No, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.119 but you can see that it's evolving and that ultimately 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.320 we're going to find sort of the best set for this. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:06.040 France reprocesses today. For example, Canada, just north of us, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.439 they've just landed on a long term repository. So again, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.439 I guess I just have confidence in US as a 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.280 country that we're going to figure that out. 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.040 All right, We're going to leave it on that note. Listen. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:17.720 So great to get some time for you with you, 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.559 and it was really wonderful to be a part of 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.080 your event. As Tim mentioned, I've been talking about it 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.120 kind of NonStop in terms of the conversations. Maria Bwell 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.800 Maria Korsenik. She's president and chief executive officer of ANYI. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.440 It's the Nuclear Energy Institute joining us on this Wednesday 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:33.920 from DC. 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.440 We're talking about the increased energy usage that we've seen 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.280 a lot of that has to do with AI. Check 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.280 out all the news about AI just in the last 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.480 couple of days, Carol. Lots of headlines. Apple rolling out 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.520 this five hundred and fifty nine dollars iPhone five hundred 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.679 and ninety nine dollars excuse me, iPhone sixteen eight with 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.440 an AI bid for growth. Microsoft unveiling AI tools that 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.800 can create video game scenes that would normally have to 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.800 be programmed and animated by a human. It's a model 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.280 using data collected from Xbox gamers and their controllers. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.319 There's so much going on, and don't forget this comes 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.760 after the big news earlier this week we talked about this. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.080 Mira Muradi, the former chief CTO over an Open Ai, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.360 launching a new AI startup. And then you had open 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.880 ai co founder Ilias a Skiv raising more than a 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.319 billion dollars for his startup at evaluation of over thirty 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:23.360 billion dollars. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.320 Okay, lots of money going into this and g two. 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.840 Patel is on top of all of it. He's Executive 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.439 VP and Chief Product Officer at Cisco, where he's charged 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.120 with making sure that Cisco's portfolio works in the world 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.120 of AI. He joins us from Silicon Valley G two. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:43.719 Where do you see Silica see Cisco's place in this 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:44.640 new world of AI? 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:48.440 You know the way that we think about this. First 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.480 LYE Carolynton, thank you for having me on the show. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.000 And you know, if you look at the way that 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.280 the world is evolving right now, it's it's moving really fast. 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.760 But if you look back at the gold Rush, think 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.480 about Cisco's position over here is we're going to provide 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:06.920 the infrastructure and the safety and security guard rail so 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.400 that organizations can actually use AI scalably in the market. 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.320 And if you think about a common sentiment that you 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.439 have right now in the market, and we've done a 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:21.120 study to actually prove this as well, there's an overwhelming 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.079 majority of companies where the CEOs are very excited about 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.280 the possibilities of AI, but virtually all of them feel 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.160 very underprepared. In fact, the study that we did, we 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.760 found that ninety seven percent of the CEOs that actually 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.840 we're pushing AI projects that we're really excited about it. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.360 Only one point seven percent of them felt fully prepared, 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.480 and I totally get it. I mean, this is a 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.000 it's a very fast moving market. People have to kind 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.199 of think differently, and so that's an area where we 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.760 feel like, you know, having preparedness and infrastructure, making sure 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.680 that safety and security don't become impediments for the adoption 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:02.760 of AI, and having the skills gat get really addressed 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.120 are the three big challenges that most organizations have that 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.040 we at Cisco want to try to go out and 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.080 help our customers. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:10.560 With see two. 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.040 One thing I think about is, you know, there's the 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.520 idea of move fast, break things, get it. There's also well, 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.440 wait a minute, we want to see where the dust 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.960 settles when it comes to AI a little bit because 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.640 we're at this point two more than two years in 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.080 of just the euphoria and the build and the spend, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.440 and now we want to see, Okay, what do we 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:29.320 get for our money? 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:30.360 Is there a little bit. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.160 Maybe of that going on that there are executives, especially 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.680 if smaller mid sized companies, are saying we got to 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.440 kind of hold off until we really understand how do 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:40.440 we monetize this. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.200 Yeh. So if you take a step back and broadly, 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.520 like if we like to take a look at what's 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.880 happening in the market, there's only two kinds of companies 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.080 that are going to exist in the market. There's a 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.520 first kind, which is going to get highly dexterous with 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.320 the use of AI, and the second which is going 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.600 to be you know, struggling for relevance. Now, if you 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.960 look at the great ones, majority of them are getting 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:07.800 slowed down because of a few very foundational reasons. The 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.440 first one is, you know, safety and security gets to 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.440 be a big concern, especially for large regulated organizations. They 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.440 want to make sure that they tread carefully on that front. 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.760 And as you have things like deep seak and you know, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.520 the cost of models gets to be lower and lower, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.240 and the cost curve goes down precipitously, you're going to 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.320 have more and more models that are out there. And 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.960 these models, by definition are unpredictable, and we've found that 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.400 it's pretty easy to jail break these models, and so 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.120 that safety security concern is a real one. The second 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.760 area is that people just aren't quite equipped for going 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.680 out and making sure that the infrastructure is ready for AI. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.840 And then third one is this notion of skills, And 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.360 if you think about skills, I personally believe that staying 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.720 on the sidelines is not going to help you go 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.400 up the learning curve. So you have to jump in. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:15:59.520 You have to jump in the frame and make sure 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.440 that you're starting to take some projects and learn from 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.520 those projects and have these practical experiences as a company 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.680 so that you get a better feel, a better intuition 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:11.920 of what's happening in AI and what it's going to 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.680 take to succeed. But just staying on the sidelines, I 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.120 think is a really bad strategy that's going to let 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:21.000 others get ahead of you and you'll be left behind. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.400 One thing we'd love to hear from folks in your 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.600 position who are interacting with customers each and every day 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.080 is try to get an understanding of where demand is, 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.560 who's buying, what house spend is. When it comes to it, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.040 what can you tell us about the environment right now. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.160 So there's no shortage of demand signal on AI right now. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.840 In fact, what's happening is there's a lot of money 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.480 in from different parts of it that are going into AI. 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.680 And then the question becomes, what are the use cases 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.560 where AI is being used really well. So if you 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.840 think about some of the really highly adopted use cases 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:03.520 right now in large companies, software coding and software development, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.760 in twenty twenty five, you will actually be able to have, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:14.000 you know, a meaningful amount of your code for a 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.960 mid level engineer that'll actually be done by AI. And 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.919 so that's an area that's going to be hugely you 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.000 know growing. The second area that we've seen a fair 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.760 amount of movement and momentum on is this notion of 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.040 a contact center agent. Each one of us, Carol and Tim, 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.440 we all probably will spend about four to six weeks 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.360 of our lifetimes on hold waiting for some agent when 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.800 you call a company and they need to make sure 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.920 that they actually solve your problem. That's an enormous waste 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.600 of time for humanity at large. And I think there's 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.399 going to be ninety to ninety five percent of these 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.560 calls will be addressed with a voice agent that is 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.760 going to be an AI agent, where you it'll sound 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:54.360 just like waiting. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.240 Whatever, literally literally still waiting for that to happen. 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.919 One that actually works and is I don't know, like 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.400 I do feel like we've all gone through automated. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:07.399 Systems representative, representative, exactly representative, That's how I do. 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.960 That's exactly right. So is it really going to be 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.400 a very different experience. 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.479 Well, I think one of the challenges that we've had 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.879 if you think about, you know, calling an agent, and 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.119 when you have something that's an automated agent, the reason 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.640 it sounds so frustrating is it sounds like a robot 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.720 and you can't interrupt it. It doesn't understand tonality, it 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.560 doesn't understand expression, doesn't understand the emotion that the customer 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.280 might be feeling. And so what you're now starting to 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.040 see happen is these voice agents are getting so sophisticated 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.960 that you can interrupt it its speed. It speaks at 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.240 the speed that a human would be able to speak. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.400 You can redirect it, you can throw curveballs. It'll understand 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.320 you your tone if you're frustrated. It's not going to 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.240 ask you, you know, silly questions when you're frustrated about 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.160 things that are like how's the weather, how are you feeling? 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.639 Because that's not what the customer might might want to 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.800 talk about. So those kind of dynamics will fundamentally change 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.639 the take, create and adoption of this. So in the 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:13.200 next two years, I assert that it'll probably be about 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.520 eighty to eighty five percent of the inbound calls that 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:19.199 come in will be able to be handled by an 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.720 AI agent, and the ones that aren't handled by an 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.240 AI agent, the AI agent will be smart enough to 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.600 hand it off to a human agent with all the contexts, 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.600 so you don't have to repeat your account number again, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.159 and you don't have to go out and you know, 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.679 kind of restate your problem just the way that we 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.040 actually feel right now. And that's what gets the frustration 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.400 levels high. And I'm really hopeful about that that entire category. 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.320 So that's the second category where you're seeing a fair 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.400 amount of momentum, and then there's there's many more use 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.240 cases and automated workflows that you'll start to just see 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:55.680 get more and more proliferated throughout the entire corporate landscape. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.440 Well don't judge MET two, but I just started really 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.239 playing with chat GPT and I came in and I 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:02.560 was like kind of blown away. 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:04.199 I came in one morning. I'm like, Tim, you've got 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:05.320 to start playing what you're saying you. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.120