1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,320 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 2: Oh, but I'll tell you something. When people walk up 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: to me and they say, oh, you've had the best life, yes, 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: but they think that they haven't. That is really sad 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 2: to me. They think like they missed out, Especially the 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: women who come up to me that think, you know, 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: I was just a wife and mother. You know, it's like, ah, 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: excuse me, that's pretty good. Okay. 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taken a Walk Podcast, the podcast where 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: we explore fascinating stories and insights with the people who 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: have shaped the music industry and music history today. Buzz Night, 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: your host has the privilege of speaking with a true 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: renaissance woman whose career has spanned photography, music, film, and beyond. 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: Lynn Goldsmith is a world renowned photographer whose work has 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: graced the of Life, Newsweek, Time, Rolling Stone, and more. 16 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: Her portraits have captured some of the biggest names in entertainment, sports, music, 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: and culture for the past five decades. You can see 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: Lynn's captivating collection at Morrison Hotel Gallery, online at Morrisonhotel 19 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: Gallery dot com, or in person with locations in New 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: York City and La Lynn's story is one of constant 21 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: reinvention and creative exploration and She's got a new book out, 22 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: Patty Smith Before Easter After, which is an intimate portrait 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: of rock icon Patty Smith. Here's buzz with Lynn Goldsmith 24 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: on Taking a Walk. 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: Lynn Goldsmith, thanks for being on the Taking a Walk podcast. 26 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,279 Speaker 3: It's an honor. 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: Well, it's great to take a walk with you. 28 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 3: So the book is dedicated to those that have the 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: ability to change perception, in inspire and empower others. I 30 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: love those words. Who are some of the folks you 31 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: could single out in your life that have done that 32 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 3: for you? 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really good question, and I'm happy that 34 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: you asked it because we all need models to refer 35 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: to give us, I think, the courage to bust through 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: our fears and to be you know, to be more 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: conscious human beings, to keep fighting the good fight. And 38 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: you know, those people, some of them, I never knew them, 39 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 2: you know, you only knew the myth of them, whether 40 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: it was Jesus Christ or Mother Teresa or Moses. You know, 41 00:02:49,880 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: there's a range of both spiritual individuals as well as 42 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: real life ones like Mother Teresa, who really went through 43 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 2: the fire, and it's their journey that you look at 44 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: and you go, you know what I'm dealing with is 45 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: far less critical and difficult to do. So if they 46 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: can do that, just think what I can do. 47 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh I love that. Now. According to Patty, she said, 48 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: I no longer remember how we met, meaning you and Patty, 49 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: nor the genesis of our first photographs. Do you remember 50 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: your first encounter with Patty and your first photographs? 51 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 2: We decided to say that together because neither one of 52 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: us we have very different memories on a number of things. 53 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: That's not the only thing. So so in deference to her, 54 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: because if I say how we met, she did not. 55 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: We didn't meet like that, We. 56 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 3: Met like this. 57 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: We just both go, okay, we don't remember how we met. Okay. 58 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 3: I love the fact that you're out with Patty, you know, 59 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: sort of touring the country. What has that experience been like? 60 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 3: You know, a little Felma and Louise ish or I mean, 61 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 3: how because that's I'm sure you haven't done that with 62 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 3: her lately, traveled around. So what's it been like with 63 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 3: this new round? 64 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: Oh? 65 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: It's really nice. Well, first of all, you know, we're 66 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: both young girls but old ladies, and so you know, 67 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: we're like those two white haired ladies traveling together. You know, 68 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: and you think, like their husbands are no longer with 69 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: them and they have no one else to be with. 70 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: So we enjoy doing things in places. In Chicago, we 71 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: went to the Field Museum, which is a really it's 72 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: kind of like the Museum of Natural History in New York, 73 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: and that was, uh, you know, it's always interesting to 74 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: do things like that with Patty because you know, she uh, 75 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: she has a wealth of knowledge about things. And also 76 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: then I take pictures of her looking at dioramas, so 77 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: so I get to do what I like to do, 78 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: and it's you know, it's it's more interesting for me 79 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: in the appearances that we do together where we talk 80 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: about the pictures or where we you know, or where 81 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: we just talk. And that's because we're who we are 82 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 2: all the time. So we argue on stage. She puts 83 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: me down, I put her down. Then I think I 84 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: can't believe we just did that in front of people, 85 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: and people seem to like it. They go like, oh, 86 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: that was really fun watching you two. I said, really, 87 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: I thought it was horrible. 88 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 3: It's so great. I love it, you know. We had 89 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: Mark Farner on the podcast taking a Walk, and Mark, 90 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 3: when I asked him about the creation of Closer to Home. 91 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: He said, well, buzz, he said, I have to tell 92 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: you there was a bit of divine intervention with the 93 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: creation of that song, and I know he's deeply spiritual. 94 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: Have you experienced a divine intervention with the creation of 95 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: any of your work? 96 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: I don't. I think that when we're young, particularly more 97 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:26,559 Speaker 2: so than when you're older, you don't have the kind 98 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: of fear gate. You just move forward to manifest your 99 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: ideas and in some way, you know, I do think 100 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: that's divine intervention. It's you being able to access that 101 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: that power within you, and so I think we all 102 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: have it all the time. It's just that life more 103 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: or less can beat that out of a person. So, 104 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: if divine intervention has to do with the creation of 105 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: things that an individual can do which reach a lot 106 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: of people, I think that it comes from a place 107 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: where you're just fearless, totally fearless about about doing whatever 108 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: it is you're doing. 109 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the creative process that kind of leads into it. 110 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you've been inspired by folks like Chris Blackwell, 111 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: who gave you I think some great you know, creative 112 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: freedom in your career. Can you talk about how your 113 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: creative process maybe has evolved over time or how it 114 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: evolves for specific projects. 115 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: Well, there were you mentioned Chris Blackwell, there were people 116 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: from first Joshua White of The Joshua Light Show, then 117 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 2: Andy Cavaliery who and then and we did Joshua Television 118 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: which led to me directing for ABC. And then there 119 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: was Andy Cavalier, who I actually met through doing a 120 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: special on Grand Funk for ABC, which led to me 121 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 2: being co management for Grand Funk, which led to uh 122 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: me letting I let go of things when I'm not 123 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: happy doing them anymore and move forward even if they 124 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 2: are successful. Uh. The the the kind of entrapments that 125 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 2: success brings with money, fame, whatever it is, don't really 126 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: aren't strong enough to make me want to continue to 127 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: do something if it doesn't make if I don't feel 128 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: anymore like this is where I belong, this is what 129 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: I love to do. I think the most important thing 130 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: in life is to love what you do. And if 131 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: you don't know what that is, keep trying things till 132 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: you find it. So your question, what was your question? 133 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 4: Again? 134 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: I wanted to refer to Blackwell and those three particular 135 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: men because then came my recording for Island Records. It 136 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: was that due to my age and what was going 137 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: on at the time, it was very difficult for a 138 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: woman to get the power to do the things that 139 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: I have done, and I was only able to do 140 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: them because those men saw in me that I had, 141 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: whether it was a really good idea or the skill 142 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: to do something, and they they kind of took on 143 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 2: that battle so that I could get in there and 144 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: do my work. So that was where, you know, it 145 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: was really important, and I think on our journey to 146 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: acknowledge that we always will need help in certain areas 147 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: in order to really do our best. You don't do 148 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: it alone. So it's not that they were models for me, 149 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: it's that they cleared the path for me to be 150 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: able to do what I wanted to do. 151 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I saw Bob Gruin at your event the 152 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: other night, and I wanted to ask you, is the 153 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: photography community been something that has helped clear that path 154 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 3: as well? 155 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: Or No? Not at all, Not at all. Photographers are 156 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: for me, I think a really I wouldn't use the 157 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 2: word community. I think for the most part they're incredibly 158 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 2: selfish and they're filled with fear that they might not 159 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 2: have another job. That someone's going to take that job 160 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: from them. They operate in a very isolated way, unlike actors, 161 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: for example, that all become friends because if you're friends 162 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: with someone when they're on a movie, they might also 163 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: get you an audition for that movie or screenplaywright. Any writers, okay, 164 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: because writers are so alone when they write, they want 165 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: to go out with other writers. When you think of 166 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 2: the roundtable at the Royalton Hotel in New York or 167 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: you know, writers want to have that kind of community, 168 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: and they have unions even that are strong and support 169 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: them in rights. Photographers even if they have unions that say, 170 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 2: you know, don't work for less than five hundred dollars 171 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 2: a day. I'm just making that up. They will. They'll say, oh, 172 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: I'll work for credit because I want that magazine to 173 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 2: like me, or I want that person to like me. 174 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: So when I speak so ill of photographers, it is 175 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: not meant for every photographer because it's a generalization because 176 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 2: there are photographers who are not like that, and who 177 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: share information and who are very open to helping other photographers. 178 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 2: I've always felt that people were more powerful in numbers, 179 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: and so even when I started a photo agency and 180 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: I got other photographers' jobs as well as my own jobs. 181 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: I did it because I knew that we could ask 182 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: more from the magazines and the record labels and the 183 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: film companies if we were a group than if we 184 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: were just one person. But when I had my battle 185 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: with the Warhol Foundation, I looked into that there were 186 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety thousand professional listed because there's those 187 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: that aren't listed professional photographers. And when I was threatened 188 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: by the Warhol Foundation because they sued me for my 189 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: own photograph of prints and used that they legalized, they 190 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: weaponized the legal system to then try to grab rights. 191 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: And what I mean that is you can sue anybody 192 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 2: for anything. So they sue me for my own photograph. 193 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 2: Then they turn around and say, you know, we're going 194 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: to keep you in court and go all the way 195 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court. Do you know how much that's 196 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: going to cost you? Or we'll drop this lawsuit and 197 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: give you this pittance of money and you give us 198 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: your copyright. That kind of bullying goes on, and I 199 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: wasn't going to stand for it. And I thought, well, 200 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety thousand listed professional photographers, if I 201 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: asked for ten dollars from everybody. That's almost two million. 202 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: I can fight them, you know, and very few photographers 203 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: came to, even wealthy ones to even give ten dollars. 204 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 2: I got, you know, like one thousand dollars from a 205 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: screenplay writer because they understood that my fight for copyright 206 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: affected all arts, not just photography. But photographers are the 207 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 2: ones on the front line. And this is what I 208 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: tried to explain to them back then. The case went 209 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: on for seven years, and I kept putting things might 210 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: GoFundMe is still there. And when I wanted the Supreme 211 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: Court level, I only had, which cost millions of dollars. 212 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: I only had contributions of fifty thousand dollars, and I 213 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: went out and did more talks, and I think now 214 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: it's up to about seventy. I keep it up there. 215 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 2: Anyone listening to this, if you think that you benefited 216 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: from my fight, you should be putting in your ten 217 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: bucks into www. GoFundMe dot com. Warhol vs. Goldsmith And 218 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: it's just a matter of taking responsibility for your work 219 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: and for the rights to your work, and for what 220 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: you know it was fought for to get you a 221 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 2: copyright law, but you know, for the most part people 222 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: would come up and thank me. You know, I did 223 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: talks at photo events and they thanked me. I said, 224 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: did you give ten dollars? You know, they didn't, And 225 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 2: it was just so disappointing to me and disheartening that 226 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 2: now when I'm asked as you asked me about photo community, 227 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: I'm like, there's no community, you know, this is who 228 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 2: they are. And it's really stupid because, as I started 229 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: to say, photography is the most vulnerable art form, or 230 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: one of the most. Writing can be too, but it's 231 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: really I'd say it's the most vulnerable because you can 232 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: take a photograph. And I even explain this back before 233 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: AI was so powerful. Okay, it means you can take 234 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: a photograph and do something with it and it becomes yours. 235 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: It's copyrighted under you. When you've spent all these years, 236 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: you know, creating a craft and all these people are 237 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: like just stealing it off the internet, with enough good 238 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: programs out there to upsize files, and they're only going 239 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 2: to get better. You know. It's just sad, sad, sad 240 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: to me, both in this particular case as well as 241 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: in life itself, as reflected in our current election, where 242 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: people seem to not understand that it's the laws of 243 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: this country that give us our freedoms and that support 244 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: us in being the wealthiest and one of the most 245 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: powerful countries ever. So if we don't uphold that and 246 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 2: fight for it all the time, you're gonna lose it. 247 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 248 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 249 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 3: One of the elements I believe of your secret sauce 250 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 3: is how you create this comfortable environment for your your subjects. 251 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 3: Can you talk about how you did that for Patty 252 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 3: Smith through your work with her? 253 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: Well, that's you know, Patty, you don't even have to 254 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 2: have a comfortable environment. She's not like other musicians or 255 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: writers or you know. I've photographed a lot of people 256 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: in different areas, whether it's sports, and I'm talking about 257 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: in the studio or doing a location portrait. You know, 258 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: a sportsperson doesn't care if you're a rock star, you know, 259 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: a rock and roll person, if you're if you're shooting 260 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: a show or an event. But when you when they 261 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: come into an environment that they've never been in before, okay, 262 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: to be in front of the camera, can feel can 263 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: make one feel incredibly vulnerable, especially if they've never met 264 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: the person behind the camera. With Patty, I think she 265 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 2: already had as an artist. She already had a sense 266 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: of herself from working with Robert as his model so 267 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: to speak, and her friend Judy Lynn, and she liked 268 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: being photographed. You know, she could really you know, she 269 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 2: would have been when when art schools hire someone in 270 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: college to like, whether it's be the nude model or 271 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: the model for whatever, that could have been Patty because 272 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: she's so comfortable with herself in front of a camera. 273 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: So she's not a good example. You could put her 274 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 2: in anything, and she's comfortable in herself and she has 275 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: control of herself other people, you know, I have to 276 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 2: do a lot of research, like what music I should 277 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: be playing, what food they like to eat, what do 278 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 2: they like to drink, But particularly the music that I 279 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: play during a shoot. That was always a key element 280 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 2: in kind of having a silent language as soon as 281 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 2: they walked in that would make them aware that we 282 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 2: were of the same tribe. 283 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: So you said, For me, photography is a means of 284 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: writing with light showing in order to tell. And when 285 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: I think of you with your career, your songwriting, your acting, 286 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 3: your filmmaking. As someone who has often reinvented, what else 287 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 3: do you want to take on that you haven't taken on. 288 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 2: That's a really good question, Buzz, because I'm thinking a 289 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: lot about that, you know, I don't want to keep 290 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: repeating myself that's there's not that much time left, and 291 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: when I say that, people go, oh, don't say that. No, 292 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: I've always felt that. I've always felt and felt that 293 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 2: it was a blessing that I knew that death is 294 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: around the corner. You know, you just don't know, and 295 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: it's one of the reasons I am I've always felt 296 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: pushed to do a lot because I don't know how 297 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 2: long I'm going to be here, but I do know 298 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: at you know, I'll be seventy seven in February. I 299 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: do know that time more so than ever, that time 300 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 2: is limited, and the time that my body will work 301 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: the way I want it to work is limited. So 302 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: I am really addressing now, how do I want to 303 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: spend that time. For the last few years, I've thought 304 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 2: about the kind of film because I got asked by 305 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 2: people who wanted to make a documentary on me, but 306 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: what they really wanted was what I call a documentary 307 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 2: filled with stories of rock stars, and you know, I'm 308 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: not interested in that that's part of the story. But 309 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 2: I'm more interested if I'm going to spend time on something, 310 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: making a piece of entertainment which in some way propels 311 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 2: the person experiencing it to try things in their life 312 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: that they might have thought they couldn't accomplish. And if 313 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: I could do that with a story on my life. 314 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: And I think the fact that I'm not a famous 315 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 2: name like Madonna or Adele or Beyonce or whatever, I 316 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 2: think that actually empowers more people because you don't have 317 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: to think that a life is not a successful life 318 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 2: if it doesn't have you know, you don't have to 319 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: go for that level of fame. You know, you just 320 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 2: have to do what it is you love to do. 321 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: To feel that your life not only has purpose, but 322 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 2: that you're having an adventure because it's all going to 323 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 2: be over before you know it. 324 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 4: How does it make you feel at you know, receptions 325 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 4: like at the gallery and other instances of you being 326 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 4: out connecting with people who love your work and you 327 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 4: you know, you witness this. 328 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 3: How does that make you feel in those moments? 329 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: Oh, well, I'm really happy that I have helped them 330 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: because generally what they're connecting to is the music that 331 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: had some effect on them, and then my photograph adds 332 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: to the gestault of that. You know, it's got the 333 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: feeling of the person and the music they that has 334 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 2: reached them in some way. In a situation like that, 335 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 2: where it's a show which involves portraits of a celebrity, 336 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 2: it's very much connected to the feelings that the viewer 337 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: has to the celebrity, and some pictures don't enhance their 338 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: love for that person and others do. So I ride 339 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: the wave of that and give them. Well, it's like 340 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: there are people who they have pictures of Jesus that 341 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 2: help them love Jesus more, you know, or they love 342 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: across a certain cross and it makes them love their 343 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 2: spirituality anymore. 344 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: You know. 345 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: Well, you know that that's what all of that is about. 346 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 2: Oh but I'll tell you something. When people walk up 347 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: to me and they say, oh, you've had the you know, 348 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: the best life, yes, and but they think that they haven't. 349 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: That is really sad to me. They think like they 350 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: missed out, Especially the women who come up to me 351 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: that think, you know, I was just a wife and mother. 352 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 2: You know, it's like, uh, excuse me, that's pretty good. Okay, Yeah, 353 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 2: So you know, I just want people to love their life, 354 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: not to love my life. 355 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 3: So in closing now, at the time we are in 356 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 3: our country, can you talk about how critical and vital 357 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 3: the arts are to us at this time? Oh? 358 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that, you know, it'll be it'll be 359 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: a boom, a boom, a boom, I'm not quite sure 360 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: what the word is. It'll it'll be a wonderful thing 361 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: for the art world that this election has gone the 362 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: way it has, because I think there will be people 363 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: who will dig deep and get inspired to create work 364 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: that reminds us all of our humanity, and that reminds 365 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 2: us all that we need to respect each other, and 366 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 2: we need to care about our brothers and sisters, no 367 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 2: matter what color they are, no matter what they believe in. 368 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: I you know, uh, I think that the atmosphere of uh, 369 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: of separation and unwillingness to compromise and listen will cause 370 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: a reaction. Just just strong to it. So in that 371 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: way it'll be good. And then as the rich get richer, 372 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: which they will, they'll buy more art. 373 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: Yes, Lynn Goldsmith, it's an honor having you on taking 374 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: a Walk. Congratulations on the awesome book Before Easter After. 375 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: It's a wonderful book on Patti Smith, and I so 376 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 3: love your work and I can't thank you enough for 377 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: giving it to us. 378 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: Oh buzz, that is really really nice, And this conversation 379 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: has been so pleasurable and you know helps me as 380 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: well to focus on what it is I know in 381 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: my heart of hearts. 382 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 3: Is my own. 383 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: Best route in my journey. So I appreciate your questions. 384 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks for listening to this episode of the 385 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: Taking Away podcast. Share this and other episodes with your 386 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. 387 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 388 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.