Speaker 1: Episode one sixty four, Money Motivation for Moms with Cat Alfred.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 1: save money, embrace simplicity, race and live with your life.
Speaker 1: Here your host Jen and Jill. M m m m
Speaker 1: m m. Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. My name
Speaker 1: is Jen, my name is Jill, and today is for
Speaker 1: the moms. Consider this another Mother's Day, right on the
Speaker 1: precipice of Father's Day. Because listen, we're women. We'll do
Speaker 1: that for you. We're not here for the father's Well,
Speaker 1: celebrate the mothers. We're here for the we do. They're
Speaker 1: they're a part of that. They need to be a Yes, honestly,
Speaker 1: you've been a part of this. Yeah, they should probably
Speaker 1: be listening to this episode because we've already recorded it
Speaker 1: it prior to doing this intro. And it is good,
Speaker 1: Like we're not just talking about money and this one
Speaker 1: we're talking, as Jill likes to say, we are whole people.
Speaker 1: And so this is a whole person episode. Yes, all
Speaker 1: of the facets of who we are. And Cat just
Speaker 1: bring such a great, relatable, approachable style and perspective. So
Speaker 1: I really think you're gonna like it. But first our
Speaker 1: sponsors also brought to you by moms. Talking about moms today,
Speaker 1: we see you multitasking on everything, taking care of literally everyone,
Speaker 1: not flinching at any bodily fluid you may find on
Speaker 1: yourself or on your clothing, packing lunches, responding to emails,
Speaker 1: never ever being able to finish that cup of coffee
Speaker 1: you made for yourself, raising kids like a boss despite
Speaker 1: the pushback, screaming and insane decisions children make with their lives.
Speaker 1: Thanks moms for all you do. Moms use code I
Speaker 1: am your mother for a reduction in Tantrum's Oh, I
Speaker 1: will use that code I've been looking for that. You
Speaker 1: may not have kids, Jill, but you are so wise
Speaker 1: when it comes to motherhood and how you deal with children.
Speaker 1: You are a sage that's so sweetly region I have.
Speaker 1: Most of my friends are are mothers, so I've got
Speaker 1: an up close and personal look at this life and
Speaker 1: i just want to support you all. I want you
Speaker 1: to be kind to yourselves. You do it very well,
Speaker 1: and so I was so excited for your insight in
Speaker 1: this episode too. So without further ado, let's get in
Speaker 1: this interview with Katherine Alfred. She is an award winning blogger, writer, speaker.
Speaker 1: She has been in the personal finance game since two
Speaker 1: thousand ten, so she knows her stuff and she speaks
Speaker 1: on it. So relatedly, she doesn't have one of those
Speaker 1: finance degrees that has her speaking in jargon and speaking
Speaker 1: like above you. She she's just like she's. She learned
Speaker 1: it as she went, she researched, and she portrays it.
Speaker 1: She relates it back very understandably. And so now she's
Speaker 1: a mom of twins, they're seven years old, and she
Speaker 1: is talking to moms specifically with her new book, Mom's
Speaker 1: Got Money, And I'm so excited for you to hear
Speaker 1: what's inside. Let's do it. Kat, Welcome to the Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast. We're so excited to have you here. Wow,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for inviting me up. I think
Speaker 1: that this is a message and a topic that so
Speaker 1: many people want to hear about. So we're really looking
Speaker 1: forward to hearing more of what what's in your book
Speaker 1: and more of the behind the scenes about that. So
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on. Sure, it's my pleasure. Yeah, So, first,
Speaker 1: I think it would be an interesting story. Tell us
Speaker 1: how you got interested in personal finance. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: add a personal finance and sort of a backwards way.
Speaker 1: I actually went to school for history. I went to
Speaker 1: graduate school for history thinking I would be a curator
Speaker 1: working museums do education, and I started a blog when
Speaker 1: I was super broke in my graduate school program. I
Speaker 1: was making a twelve thousand dollars a year my teaching
Speaker 1: assistant stipend, and so as a bit of a creative
Speaker 1: outlet to take a break from all the like really
Speaker 1: dense historical theory, I just started showing my fift store
Speaker 1: fines and like the first apartment I ever had by myself,
Speaker 1: and all these different things, and it's sort of blossomed.
Speaker 1: And then I started freelance writing to supplement that twelve
Speaker 1: thousand dollar income, and I guess because I was writing
Speaker 1: about money, it served as a portfolio and that's like
Speaker 1: what I had to pitch to potential jobs. And it
Speaker 1: just sort of took off from there, and instead of
Speaker 1: working in museums, I ended up, um you know, moving
Speaker 1: abroad or my husband went to school. Kept writing, and
Speaker 1: by the time I came back to the States, I
Speaker 1: was making enough money to have it as my full
Speaker 1: time job. You know. Along the way, like people would
Speaker 1: assign the articles that I knew nothing about, Like, hey,
Speaker 1: could you write an article about mortgages? I really like
Speaker 1: how you right? And I never had a mortgage before
Speaker 1: my entire life. But because I was a historian and
Speaker 1: knew how to research, I'd be like, totally, I can
Speaker 1: write about your mortgages. Totally, I can write about I
Speaker 1: mean I remember writing about roth Ira for the first
Speaker 1: time and having no idea what that was. So over
Speaker 1: the course of like a decade of doing this, I
Speaker 1: learned a lot along the way, and um, now I
Speaker 1: do this full time. Yeah, that's similar to how I
Speaker 1: learned a lot about personal fighting crating. That's what I
Speaker 1: can tell. I'll just read a lot of research and
Speaker 1: a lot of googling. I loved the story in your
Speaker 1: book where you were you were in was it the Caribbean?
Speaker 1: And you kind of have this backwards way like some
Speaker 1: people will work and do a side hustle to try
Speaker 1: and leave their job, and you were there and You're like, well,
Speaker 1: there's no jobs for me, so I'm just gonna have
Speaker 1: to like do it myself. Yeah, I would just I mean,
Speaker 1: my husband was in his first two years of medical
Speaker 1: school down there, and I used to just sit next
Speaker 1: to him. He'd studied for hours and hours and hours,
Speaker 1: and I just sat that Stoman just kept pitching freelance
Speaker 1: writing jobs like we had no money, and I feel
Speaker 1: so excited. I'd be like, this one's gonna pay me
Speaker 1: twelve dollars for a post, and I felt like a
Speaker 1: real writer, you know. But that's how it started, and
Speaker 1: it was just that hustle. I had no distractions, nothing
Speaker 1: else to do, no malls. I just I just spent
Speaker 1: that whole first two years as a growth phase in it,
Speaker 1: and it led to what I do now, just getting
Speaker 1: thrown into the fire. I feel like I hear this
Speaker 1: so often from people. I didn't really know it, but
Speaker 1: I knew that I had the tools to figure it out.
Speaker 1: And I think that that applies to pretty much any field,
Speaker 1: especially with the amount of information we have available to us.
Speaker 1: It's okay if you don't feel like an expert immediately
Speaker 1: just start reading, start researching, watch videos, learn from others,
Speaker 1: and you can become the expert that you want to be.
Speaker 1: Amazing what we can pull out of your story exactly,
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, we all have these moments
Speaker 1: like it's am I qualified to write a money book?
Speaker 1: Like should I, But I I included the story. I
Speaker 1: included like how it came to be and that I
Speaker 1: you know, actually I like liberal arts degrees to kind
Speaker 1: of show people that, like if I started like that
Speaker 1: and ended up writing a money book, like you can
Speaker 1: learn this. You can you know, start from nothing and
Speaker 1: gather gather the knowledge enough to then to each other's
Speaker 1: over time. Absolutely. Yeah, so let's talk about your book, Cat,
Speaker 1: Why did you see a need for a personal finance
Speaker 1: book specifically geared towards moms. Can you talk about that
Speaker 1: a bit? Well, you know, there's a lot of advice
Speaker 1: geared towards moms, but I felt like it wasn't high
Speaker 1: level enough. Like I would read all these articles, and
Speaker 1: I'd read other people's blog posts and be like, hey, moms,
Speaker 1: here are some ways to save money. And it'd be like,
Speaker 1: so when you go to the grocery store, you know,
Speaker 1: write your lists and do this and don't forget your
Speaker 1: coup on book. And you know, I felt like, of
Speaker 1: course mom's like configure that out on their own, but
Speaker 1: I was missing the language that would speak to moms
Speaker 1: as if they were like highly intelligent powerhouses, totally capable
Speaker 1: of more complex money decisions than just going to the
Speaker 1: grocery store. And so I just wanted to, you know,
Speaker 1: bring that to the market because I wanted to show
Speaker 1: moms that they were capable of kind of taking a
Speaker 1: leadership position when it came to money and not even
Speaker 1: if they knew nothing about it starting the book, that
Speaker 1: they were more than capable of getting there. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just feel like queen because so many, so many moms,
Speaker 1: like stay at home moms, homeschooling, whatever, their college educated,
Speaker 1: they're smart. It's like we have this stereotype placens that like,
Speaker 1: like moms, especially stay at home moms just went to
Speaker 1: college to get a husband, and that's absolutely not true.
Speaker 1: They're highly educated and choose, they've made their own life
Speaker 1: choices right right, But they haven't like they haven't lost themselves.
Speaker 1: Like their brains are still in there, you know on
Speaker 1: some days, you know, taking care of kids, but still
Speaker 1: in there. And I mean I've always like I'm always
Speaker 1: about high expectations of myself, of others, and I even
Speaker 1: with my friends, you know, I'm like, you can do more,
Speaker 1: you can learn more, and I think all of us
Speaker 1: have the potential to really learn about this stuff. I
Speaker 1: love what you said there, and I do think it's
Speaker 1: a bit of controversial peace, but I'm going to go
Speaker 1: with it because once we explain it more, I think, well,
Speaker 1: we get it to do more, you can do more.
Speaker 1: I think that that's initially a statement that's like, no,
Speaker 1: stop telling me that they need to do more. So
Speaker 1: I'm telling moms that they need to do more. But
Speaker 1: I so agree with you in the sense of there
Speaker 1: is more available to you. And I think that what
Speaker 1: we're talking about is one of the things that can
Speaker 1: lead to so much difficulty internally and possibly even externally
Speaker 1: for specifically moms who are trying to juggle so many things.
Speaker 1: I mean, what's on everybody's plate is different, but a
Speaker 1: lot of times, especially where there is just this expectation
Speaker 1: to raise children, there's all these other aspects of a
Speaker 1: woman's personhood that then get missed, that feels stifled, that
Speaker 1: lead to feeling stuck, that feel like I'm not operating
Speaker 1: to my fullest potential, and yet society is saying no,
Speaker 1: but this thing should fulfill you. So stop complaining and
Speaker 1: just like do more in your home. And I think
Speaker 1: what you're describing here is there's more than just grocery shopping.
Speaker 1: You are capable of more, and there are outlets for more,
Speaker 1: and like helping people rise to that next level is
Speaker 1: beautiful and I think it allows those outlets that moms
Speaker 1: need to be able to feel their fullest self. Right,
Speaker 1: this is about fulfillment. And this isn't about do mores
Speaker 1: and like let's add ten more things to your list.
Speaker 1: This is about you know, in those quiet moments during
Speaker 1: the day or in the evening when you have the
Speaker 1: thought to yourself, like is this really all this is?
Speaker 1: Is this all it's gonna be? And you wonder if
Speaker 1: you're the only one that thinks like that, Like these
Speaker 1: are the moments that I'm like, you know, yeah, you
Speaker 1: went to college, you graduated with years ago, Like you
Speaker 1: can still pick up something new, you can still like
Speaker 1: enhance your life. Like it wasn't like this part of
Speaker 1: your life. You are a student and you learned and
Speaker 1: now you're in this motherhood hood part. You know, you
Speaker 1: still have all your interests and I I think, um,
Speaker 1: stay at home moms, working moms, I just think we
Speaker 1: all need to have something just just for us. And
Speaker 1: you know, even if your your days kids, I still
Speaker 1: think you should have like a little ten percent of
Speaker 1: something just for you, because our kids aren't always going
Speaker 1: to be here under our roofs, you know, and when
Speaker 1: they leave, if that was all your life was wrapped
Speaker 1: up in them all the time, you're gonna have this
Speaker 1: really empty feeling when they go and they go off
Speaker 1: to college, and so I try to keep pieces for
Speaker 1: me along the way so that there's, you know, stuff
Speaker 1: to do when they go, because I are going, my
Speaker 1: might are going at the same time. So, yes, you
Speaker 1: have twins for who don't know which is so fun
Speaker 1: and so terrifying. Three day, Yes exactly that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I so agree with you, and I think sometimes it
Speaker 1: can definitely make you feel a little guilty to try
Speaker 1: and keep that piece for yourself. And I know Jill
Speaker 1: like helps me with this all the time because I
Speaker 1: feel so much guilt for like I think I should
Speaker 1: be able to do it all all the time. And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, it's okay for Travis to watch Kai
Speaker 1: because he is he made half of him, you know,
Speaker 1: so like it's okay, it's not baby. She literally had
Speaker 1: to tell me that the other day. It's not babysitting
Speaker 1: when the father is watching. We were cool, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I abandoned my child. I was like, you need to
Speaker 1: get that language like out of your head and out
Speaker 1: of your mouth. I wasn't saying it dramatically. Sitting by
Speaker 1: the side of the pool while your husband is with
Speaker 1: your son, you abandoned nobody. Yeah, no, it's hard. I mean,
Speaker 1: we place a lot of pressure on ourselves. And you know,
Speaker 1: even if you have a really even distribution of labor
Speaker 1: in your house, some people have more than others. You know,
Speaker 1: moms still feel like the primary parent, default parents, and
Speaker 1: that's just kind of the way our culture and society
Speaker 1: has has evolved. And to even push back against it
Speaker 1: a little bit just feels weird and feels wrong. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard for me too, you know, it's hard for
Speaker 1: me to I just recently told my husband, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like a day at a hotel soon.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, it doesn't have to you know, it doesn't.
Speaker 1: It could be five minutes away, but I think I need.
Speaker 1: What I was hoping for was twenty four hours without
Speaker 1: having to like have the right answer to everything. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody's got a lot of feelings at this age seven,
Speaker 1: and you want to respond in a way that's like healthy,
Speaker 1: and like you want to validate it. I just don't
Speaker 1: want to validate anyone for like twenty four hours, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's but even feeling like asking for it is hard,
Speaker 1: you know, saying that you need a minute or break
Speaker 1: or something. All of that's really challenging. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: because my husband just went to a conference in Chicago
Speaker 1: last weekend. He's like, don't on a conference, and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: no guilt, you know. It's like I don't know. Different, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. So on the on the subject of like
Speaker 1: your kids, how does like dealing with personal finances when
Speaker 1: you have multiple young children at home, Like, how does
Speaker 1: that differ? How can moms like do their personal finances
Speaker 1: like differently? Yeah, I mean each additional kid, right, whether
Speaker 1: you have them one at a time or two at once.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of different things to consider.
Speaker 1: And and one interesting thing that's come up is, especially
Speaker 1: with twins, you know, you always try to treat them equally.
Speaker 1: Like I for a long time, I had them each
Speaker 1: and one activity and I was like, okay, well tennis
Speaker 1: cost this much and ballet costs this much, and they
Speaker 1: were like close, and it felt you know, like I
Speaker 1: tried to, you know, I give them each the opportunity
Speaker 1: for the same allowance or you know, all these different things.
Speaker 1: They go to the same private school, and so you
Speaker 1: you try really hard to be equal. But as they
Speaker 1: get older, different things emerge. Right, one child might have
Speaker 1: like a medical issue, or one child might need a
Speaker 1: dishal therapy for some something else, and then it gets
Speaker 1: way skewed. So I think when you have multiple kids,
Speaker 1: I think it's good to to try to at least
Speaker 1: even it out. But it's really hard to even it
Speaker 1: out money wise, financially, to spend equally on each kid.
Speaker 1: And yeah, my husband and I we have a budget
Speaker 1: meeting once a month. We kind of organized things. Budget
Speaker 1: meetings go way better than they did when we got
Speaker 1: married eleven years ago. It's a lot smoother now. We
Speaker 1: got a lot of practices. Yeah, and you know even now, um,
Speaker 1: even even now, like at a higher income, we still
Speaker 1: ask each other if we're gonna spend something over fifty
Speaker 1: dollars that's like extra or outside. And we have like
Speaker 1: a little system now, but we talk about the kids
Speaker 1: and what to spend on them, and summer camp and
Speaker 1: family vacations and all those things come up in our
Speaker 1: budget meetings, and the child care thing. We're we're past
Speaker 1: that part now, but that was a big discussion too,
Speaker 1: especially for moms adding a second kid, that's a big thing.
Speaker 1: Oh am, I gonna wait till this one's five and
Speaker 1: then school? Do I have them back to back? Do
Speaker 1: you know? All of these things are big money conversations
Speaker 1: that have to happen. I love how you've paired, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the money conversation and how you have to take children
Speaker 1: into consideration. So this is Jill talking for those listening.
Speaker 1: I have no kids, and so even hearing you describe this,
Speaker 1: it's apparent to me how different it is to live
Speaker 1: for myself and my husband. What do they call that
Speaker 1: dink life? Double income kids? Maybe double income with kids.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's an acronym for that. Like,
Speaker 1: there is a big pivot that happens, and you are
Speaker 1: responsible for people. You're responsible for keeping them alive and
Speaker 1: then bed and a roof over their head. And especially
Speaker 1: if you're not dealing with a large income, there's definitely
Speaker 1: a lot of money decisions that need to be made
Speaker 1: and conversations and so this is absolutely a part of
Speaker 1: a mom's life. But just a person's life, a person
Speaker 1: with kids. So I love that you've paired the two
Speaker 1: and have made it approachable for Yeah, specifically moms who
Speaker 1: want to be empowered in this area. Sure, what do
Speaker 1: you say, Like when I see a lot of parents putting,
Speaker 1: trying to put like spending money on their kids as
Speaker 1: a priority over like investing money in themselves, So like
Speaker 1: they'll try and invest we'll try and get their kids
Speaker 1: a car or invest in their college before they've invested
Speaker 1: in their own retirement or paid off their own debt. Like,
Speaker 1: and I can see how that would happen. Like, you
Speaker 1: want to give your child a better life, but when
Speaker 1: you sacrifice your own finances, you're actually not giving that
Speaker 1: child a better life because they're gonna have to take
Speaker 1: care of you when you're right. What do you say
Speaker 1: to moms that like feel that way? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I struggle with this too, Like even just in little ways,
Speaker 1: Like both of my kid's rooms are so cool, Like
Speaker 1: my son has a super cool beds, like a lot bed,
Speaker 1: like you know, they got all this cool stuff and
Speaker 1: there like our bead has like no headboard, like no,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's like I still have like the
Speaker 1: lamps I had like in college, is like we don't
Speaker 1: like for us, it's something for them. You get the
Speaker 1: cool bit, you know, And so I can see how
Speaker 1: that happens. You know, when you have kids, you place
Speaker 1: their needs above yours and the littlest ways in the
Speaker 1: big ways, Like you know, if there's one cookie left,
Speaker 1: I'm cutting it in half and giving it to each twit.
Speaker 1: I'm not eating it myself. Right, that's just basic, basic stuff.
Speaker 1: So then we get some more complicated things and then eventually, right,
Speaker 1: the best gift we can give to our kids is
Speaker 1: to be stable and financially independent as we age. It's
Speaker 1: definitely challenging, right, and so I mean I would say,
Speaker 1: right intellectually, the best thing to do is to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're prioritizing your own retirement. And if you
Speaker 1: can't do that and paper your kids college, then help
Speaker 1: your kids be responsible. But I know in practice parents
Speaker 1: are going to want to lean into helping their kids,
Speaker 1: and so especially we have young kids right now, this
Speaker 1: is something to think about, you know, this is something
Speaker 1: to look really hard at your income. Do I have
Speaker 1: an income problem versus a spending problem? Do I need
Speaker 1: to spend the next five to six years, really focusing
Speaker 1: on my career, leaning hard. Do I need to switch jobs?
Speaker 1: What can I do? Because to me, the answer isn't.
Speaker 1: I don't prefer oh, let's spend less or let's pick
Speaker 1: us over them. For me, my default is let's make more.
Speaker 1: What can we make? What can we earn? Like, what business?
Speaker 1: What other business can we buy? What can we do?
Speaker 1: How can we optimize? Because to me, like my solution
Speaker 1: is always earning more so that this is not a
Speaker 1: problem and I can take care of all the things.
Speaker 1: And I think there's such a scarcity of mindset and
Speaker 1: people are like, you know, I read something the other
Speaker 1: day like this mom said, oh, my husband and I
Speaker 1: are going to retire at seventy instead of sixty five
Speaker 1: so that we can pay for our kids to go
Speaker 1: to college. And to me, I'm like, my business brain
Speaker 1: is like, oh, but there's so many ways you could
Speaker 1: have closed that five year gap. But that's that's how
Speaker 1: I think. So part of part of what I do
Speaker 1: is trying to incur its people to think a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger and again kind of recognize their own potential
Speaker 1: and kind of erase the idea of income cap or
Speaker 1: things like that. There's lots of ways to make money
Speaker 1: so you can achieve all your financial goals and more.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the way that you're getting people to
Speaker 1: think bigger. It's not just about again the grocery shopping,
Speaker 1: but this challenge. It's like expanding my brain to consider
Speaker 1: it is a better gift to give to your kids
Speaker 1: that you're not going to be financially dependent on them
Speaker 1: in retirement versus college if it comes down to that
Speaker 1: would be great if we can figure out a way
Speaker 1: to have it all. But there's bigger questions that we
Speaker 1: should be asking rather than kind of just the daily minutia.
Speaker 1: But that being said, I could see people in different camps. Right,
Speaker 1: some moms choose to work for money. Sometimes some moms
Speaker 1: choose to just work and not get paid for all
Speaker 1: of the work that they do at home or whatever
Speaker 1: the situation is. And you talk about this a little
Speaker 1: bit like the child care versus career dilemma. I know
Speaker 1: that this is this is another hot topic, so we
Speaker 1: can certainly tread lightly, um, but please share your thoughts
Speaker 1: on this and kind of what you describe in the
Speaker 1: book regarding this concept. Yeah, well, this, by far this
Speaker 1: chapter was the hardest chapter to write because I am
Speaker 1: so pro moms, like I want moms to make the
Speaker 1: decision that's the best for them, and I I just
Speaker 1: felt like I just wrote this chapter a million times
Speaker 1: and I had so many different people read it, like,
Speaker 1: am I coming across the right way? Am I coming
Speaker 1: across as supportive? Am I? Am I coming across like?
Speaker 1: I value both options? Because for me, I only work
Speaker 1: about thirty hours a week. I picked my kids up
Speaker 1: from school every day, so the whole time they've been born,
Speaker 1: I've been like half stay at home mom, half working mom,
Speaker 1: and so I kind of, like, you know, have a
Speaker 1: toe in both worlds. So I feel like I understand
Speaker 1: both world My biggest thing in this chapter was to
Speaker 1: educate moms who want to stay home if they are
Speaker 1: working and then decide to stay home that this is
Speaker 1: not a one number problem. So often moms say, well,
Speaker 1: daycare costs the same amount as my paycheck that I get,
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna stay home with my kids. But
Speaker 1: to me, I think much more broadly, and I think
Speaker 1: there are many more numbers you need to run. What
Speaker 1: does it look like when you step out of the
Speaker 1: workforce for five years you lose your employer match. Are
Speaker 1: you Are you the person that has health insurance you
Speaker 1: know for your family? Was there any other bonuses or
Speaker 1: a Christmas bonus you always used to buy gifts? And
Speaker 1: what raises would you have been eligible for in the
Speaker 1: next five to seven years. It's not just you today
Speaker 1: the paycheck you know, gets wiped out because of a daycare.
Speaker 1: It's you at sixty five wanting to retire those five
Speaker 1: prime five six prime years of investing time in your
Speaker 1: money is the early thirties, what would that amount have been,
Speaker 1: you know, in retirement. So I remember, I left the
Speaker 1: workforce to start my business, so all my benefits come
Speaker 1: from me, my own health insurance. I put my own
Speaker 1: money into retirement. I have no employer match. I am
Speaker 1: the employer and the employee. So all of these things
Speaker 1: I thought about when I decided to leave the workforce.
Speaker 1: And I thought about my kids too, So sometimes the
Speaker 1: emotional decisions are more important. But I just wanted momps
Speaker 1: to run every number and to really think about it,
Speaker 1: because it would really suck to leave your job and
Speaker 1: to go home. Well, now you've lost your income and
Speaker 1: now you feel broken, you feel stressed. Now you have
Speaker 1: a new baby. Now I feel like you can't take
Speaker 1: them to the zoo or a museum because you feel broke.
Speaker 1: And that's not fun either. So there's a lot more
Speaker 1: money considerations that go into it. Yeah. I think that
Speaker 1: as women, and especially as moms, we may not realize
Speaker 1: how important it is to stay in the workforce and
Speaker 1: increase our in comes even with kids. Like Jill made
Speaker 1: this amazing revelation last night when we were hanging out
Speaker 1: and just like googling, we we looked up this is
Speaker 1: what we do, this is what we do. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we looked up the ten richest women and in the
Speaker 1: world and the ten richest people, which spoil alert. The
Speaker 1: ten richest people are men, all of ten of them.
Speaker 1: And like, so we looked at the women first, and
Speaker 1: the women all ten of them had inherited wealth from
Speaker 1: their grandfather, father, or husband. And so Jill was like,
Speaker 1: there's there's no way the richest people in the world
Speaker 1: most of them had. It has to be generational. Like
Speaker 1: that just made made sense. And so when we looked
Speaker 1: the men, zero out of ten inherited wealth. They have
Speaker 1: built it in their in their lifetime, all men, and
Speaker 1: the amount of wealth that they had built in their
Speaker 1: lifetime was over double what the top ten richest women
Speaker 1: in the world, All ten were higher than even the
Speaker 1: top one woman in the world. And we were even
Speaker 1: talking to Eric who's interviewing at his job, and like,
Speaker 1: the amount that women ask for is far less than
Speaker 1: what men ask for, even with comparable experience. And so
Speaker 1: there's there's a wealth gap, and there's a wage gap.
Speaker 1: And I think we need to get away confidence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we need to get away from this ask for what
Speaker 1: you're worth mentality and just ask for more as if
Speaker 1: you ask for more every year, as we're not are
Speaker 1: worth is no, we are not good at that and
Speaker 1: just being like working for more and then asking for
Speaker 1: more or going someplace that will will give it to you,
Speaker 1: you know. And I talked about this in the book,
Speaker 1: and you know, everyone's like, well, how much do you
Speaker 1: ask for? And like my answer to that is ask
Speaker 1: for a number that makes you highly uncomfortable. You should
Speaker 1: not feel good sending that email asking for whatever number.
Speaker 1: It should make you want to throw up because it
Speaker 1: feels like so wrong. Because again, we are fighting against
Speaker 1: massive forces, multi generations of cultural and societal pressures that
Speaker 1: tell us like where we fit into society as women
Speaker 1: and mothers, and every time we ask for more, we
Speaker 1: want to please everybody. We are the caretakers. We want
Speaker 1: to be well liked. We want other people to think
Speaker 1: we're a good woman or a good wife, and like
Speaker 1: we're nice and we're generation and we're this, and ambitious
Speaker 1: women are often penalized as an ambitious woman. I mean
Speaker 1: when I say things sometimes people don't like, can't you know,
Speaker 1: like I've been working on the internet a long time
Speaker 1: with a lot of trolls, right, so again, you know,
Speaker 1: I like to kind of push the bounds of this stuff,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you can't get what you don't ask for.
Speaker 1: Should they offer us the same? Yeah, shouldn't they offer
Speaker 1: us more than men because we're like way better at
Speaker 1: multitasking and way better any stuff done. Yes, but people
Speaker 1: aren't asking us and they're not giving it, so like
Speaker 1: we have to push for it. And every time I've
Speaker 1: sent off like big proposals and stuff, like I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's no way they're gonna see to that, or I
Speaker 1: can't believe I asked for that much, And yeah, I
Speaker 1: asked for that much. You should not feel good, It
Speaker 1: should feel bad. So we're so focused on feeling comfortable
Speaker 1: all the time and avoiding all conflict, that we just
Speaker 1: stay in the safe zone. You gotta push in order
Speaker 1: to make more. What you said, like, you miss a
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the shots you don't take, Like if
Speaker 1: you don't ask, you will not get it. And you
Speaker 1: have to have an abundant enough mindset to be okay
Speaker 1: if you don't. Mm hmmm. I think this message is
Speaker 1: so much for the person the mom who wants to
Speaker 1: stay in a career, wants to have an extra expression
Speaker 1: of person hood, to keep some semblance of self. There
Speaker 1: are certainly moms out there who say, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I am so pleased to get out of
Speaker 1: the work that I was doing. That was a burnout, right,
Speaker 1: And my husband can work or my partner can work,
Speaker 1: and that's great. But I even think for those moms
Speaker 1: and parents, I think that this is even a challenging
Speaker 1: conversation to say, but is there anything that you want
Speaker 1: to keep your feet in some type of expression of self?
Speaker 1: And yeah, paid or unpaid, or maybe it moves to paid.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're describing cat freelance writing while you were
Speaker 1: still holding down other types of work, and so I
Speaker 1: think just expanding our mindset to say, if there's a
Speaker 1: part of you that says, I do want more, this
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like everything that I envisioned my life to
Speaker 1: be with kids, then yes, go for it, get at it.
Speaker 1: If you are pleased with what your life is and
Speaker 1: you're staying at home, fantastic. But I think just permission
Speaker 1: and freedom that these things are available to you, and
Speaker 1: don't think that your kids can't be a part of it. Like, um,
Speaker 1: a lot of my too closest friends here are both
Speaker 1: stay at home moms. One has a PhD in physics
Speaker 1: and one has a degree in math, and they're both
Speaker 1: like so happy being stay at home moms. My kids
Speaker 1: love going to their houses because they have like all
Speaker 1: the things and all the craft they do, all the
Speaker 1: special things. They come to me and I'm like, older laundry,
Speaker 1: let's go. Like they love going over there because they're
Speaker 1: like so great at all the stuff, right, But you
Speaker 1: know they get joy out of doing science experiments. Like again,
Speaker 1: my friend, you know she's like cancer research and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. Well, very happy being a stay at home mom.
Speaker 1: But she's like with my kids like in a creek
Speaker 1: showing them crawdads. So happy again. These are her passions
Speaker 1: like flowing through and her making like basically like little
Speaker 1: teaching plans for the kids, not getting paid for it.
Speaker 1: But your passions can include your kids too. It's about
Speaker 1: like allowing yourself to pursue the things that you like
Speaker 1: and finding a way to incorporate in your life. So
Speaker 1: there's just some variety to the day, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: that was annoying, Like, yeah, I need some variety. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of variety, I know exactly how we
Speaker 1: can add some variety to this show. Okay, we that's right.
Speaker 1: It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 1: Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Speaker 1: Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died
Speaker 1: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 1: To build bills, Bill Clint, this is the bill of
Speaker 1: the week. So every every week we ask our listener
Speaker 1: or our guests to share with us their bill of
Speaker 1: the week. Do you have one for us? I do.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had one yesterday, but I have one today. Um,
Speaker 1: as I shared earlier, we are recording this on my birthday,
Speaker 1: and so I want to share that my birthday gift
Speaker 1: this morning from my twins. They each I'll show you
Speaker 1: on our video. They each gave me a one dollar
Speaker 1: bill for my birthday. Oh my gosh. It is a
Speaker 1: lot bad wrapped wrapped in a huge box that they
Speaker 1: designed with wrapping paper that they colored all over and
Speaker 1: I found it lars. I also got a sparkly rock,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't fit with this the show. Um, I
Speaker 1: thought it was hilarious. What's the best? I mean to me,
Speaker 1: that was that was a big deal. You know. They
Speaker 1: really enjoyed their dollars and I got one from each
Speaker 1: of them and that they decided together. So I have
Speaker 1: two bills today. Two bills. Wow, I mean yeah, that's
Speaker 1: in the top ten bills. It sounds like your kids
Speaker 1: know you well, yea money, You've trained them well, how
Speaker 1: sometimes that they go over do it? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean we talk about what we love, and you
Speaker 1: love money exactly you do money. I hope to get
Speaker 1: something like that from Kai one day. You will, you
Speaker 1: totally will. Yeah. Actually, like in the beginning of the
Speaker 1: school year, their teacher asked them to bring three things
Speaker 1: that they love to like to help kids, you know,
Speaker 1: the other kids learn about them. And my son put
Speaker 1: a bunch of dollars in its bag and he's like,
Speaker 1: I love money, I love legos, I love money, and
Speaker 1: I love this. I was like, what the first day
Speaker 1: of first grade, Maybe we should like hit it so hard,
Speaker 1: you know, hit everyone with it, like like let's at
Speaker 1: a tennis ball instead. You know. It's like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: appreciate it, but I don't want your team, I don't
Speaker 1: want your teacher will thing. But it's good. Like I said,
Speaker 1: sometimes maybe I over do it. Someone someone in a
Speaker 1: in an internet comment was like, you should say you
Speaker 1: love the freedom of money, freedom that it brings, not
Speaker 1: that you love money. And I was like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I love money, Like I'm a personal finance writer. I
Speaker 1: it would be weird if I didn't love mine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate it's gonna hate. I love legos and I
Speaker 1: love money. Out of the mouth of babes. Yeah, they're funny.
Speaker 1: Like I said, this sage, it's hilarious, amazing. Well, if
Speaker 1: you are listening and you want to submit your bill
Speaker 1: of the week, whether it's your twins bringing you dollar
Speaker 1: bills on your birthday or literally anything else, because that's
Speaker 1: quite remarkable and unique. Visit for Girl Friends podcast dot
Speaker 1: com slash bill, leave us your bill, and now it's
Speaker 1: time for the round. Conditions are just amazing on the
Speaker 1: shank you. I really think that's why we are a
Speaker 1: top one investing podcast sound Effects. So today's Lightning Round
Speaker 1: is a little different because we're on the topics of
Speaker 1: moms and Jill is not a mom, but you have
Speaker 1: so much wisdom to share with moms. I know you
Speaker 1: talked to moms all the time. Cat and I will
Speaker 1: be sharing a little bit of some postpartum or guilt
Speaker 1: induced thoughts that we have experienced, maybe financially, maybe not.
Speaker 1: I think both of them they're vaguely financially related, and
Speaker 1: then Jill will be giving us each a response how
Speaker 1: you would respond to somebody with the same thoughts. Because
Speaker 1: I'm not counseling you the Lightning round. This is the
Speaker 1: Lightning Round. But I think when I was reading your
Speaker 1: book Hat and you mentioned about um like postpartum depression
Speaker 1: O c D, I'm like, it was not until I
Speaker 1: became a mom that I realized how common it was.
Speaker 1: Like nobody talks about it when you're not a mom,
Speaker 1: and it's not until you've already gone through it and
Speaker 1: you're out of it that you realize, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I went through that, and so I really my goal
Speaker 1: is to normalize this so much that we can almost
Speaker 1: laugh about it, like you're not crazy, Like you're not
Speaker 1: unstable or inadequate in any way. This is just like
Speaker 1: weird hormones. So that is the purpose of this, not
Speaker 1: to make fun of ourselves, but to normalize important. So
Speaker 1: cat as our guest, give us anything. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: shared in my book, you know, and it took me
Speaker 1: a couple of years to get this book deal. And
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons, you know, in hindsight,
Speaker 1: was that I needed a couple of years of space
Speaker 1: to tell the story. Um. But yeah, my my twins
Speaker 1: were premies removed um when they were five weeks old,
Speaker 1: which was like right around when a forty week due
Speaker 1: date would have been, so they were tiny, little five
Speaker 1: pound babies. We moved them across the country, and my
Speaker 1: husband started his third year a medical school. It was
Speaker 1: basically like all of the all of the things, like
Speaker 1: the perfect storm of things. And I've never been a
Speaker 1: mom before, so I was having just horrific like unwanted thoughts,
Speaker 1: like terrifying thoughts about things happening to them, or like
Speaker 1: I'd be bathing them and my brain would be like
Speaker 1: just walk away, just walk out of the bathroom and
Speaker 1: just like see what happens, and I'd be like actively
Speaker 1: fighting against it. So it wasn't like what I imagined
Speaker 1: mother to be. I wasn't like looking at, oh, my
Speaker 1: kids are cute splashing in the tub, or I was
Speaker 1: battling all of these thoughts and fighting against him like
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm not walking out this room,
Speaker 1: but you feel so crazy. And I kept it all
Speaker 1: to myself, like because I thought, well, everybody starts having
Speaker 1: a kid is hard. I have two of them. I'm
Speaker 1: also by myself. My husband's working. I just became self employed.
Speaker 1: I guess this is just what everyone talks about, like, oh,
Speaker 1: sleep all the baby sleeps, because it's really hard. I
Speaker 1: thought this was like how it was supposed to be.
Speaker 1: But I what I described in the book is the
Speaker 1: first time my husband like watch the kids, Like I
Speaker 1: felt like, okay, I'm gonna go right, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: my my work back in order. I had taken like
Speaker 1: a six week self imposed maternity leave. I'm like writing
Speaker 1: in a coffee shop and I start getting these all
Speaker 1: these unwanted thoughts, which now I know is like postpartum
Speaker 1: o c B, which you have no control over the
Speaker 1: things that just jump in your head. And so I'm
Speaker 1: like calling my husband and I'm crying in the Starbucks,
Speaker 1: like crying, and I'm like, I just got this horrible
Speaker 1: image something happening to the kids. And he's like they're
Speaker 1: just bouncing in their bouncers like they're fine. And then
Speaker 1: he starts asking me questions like well, how long have
Speaker 1: you been thinking about this, and I'm like, well since
Speaker 1: they were born. I just it all just kind of
Speaker 1: like it just pours out. And he would immediately like,
Speaker 1: you know, Kathy needs some help, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna find someone for you. And he did. He he
Speaker 1: did a bunch of research and found like the right
Speaker 1: person for me, and you know, got officially diagnosed with
Speaker 1: you know, pp D and post part of o c
Speaker 1: D and started talking to a therapist and all these things,
Speaker 1: and it really helped I, like no be twelve and
Speaker 1: my sister like I finally had like a whole like
Speaker 1: physical like the whole thing. And but I wish I
Speaker 1: would have done it sooner, you know, And you know.
Speaker 1: Luckily my husband is a physician, and you know, could
Speaker 1: immediately kind of jump in there and recognize things because
Speaker 1: you know who knows. You know, maybe other dads would
Speaker 1: be like, wow, it sounds like you need some rest
Speaker 1: or you need this, and he was like, no, this
Speaker 1: is more we need to get you some help. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm very grateful to him for that. He
Speaker 1: he's really kind and he listened to me like as
Speaker 1: if I was any one of his patients, and he
Speaker 1: took care of me, and I'm really glad that he did. Wow, Kat,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your courage in saying this.
Speaker 1: I know that you are not alone, and there's so
Speaker 1: many people who are probably like, oh my goodness, me too,
Speaker 1: and there's words for this, and and yet it takes
Speaker 1: somebody brave enough to be able to say it that, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is actually what's happening. This is some of the
Speaker 1: reality where you've got other people feeling like they're in silos, isolated,
Speaker 1: thinking I'm the only one. I must be crazy. And
Speaker 1: that's what happens when we're isolated, is we think that's
Speaker 1: just our experience and no one else feels this way.
Speaker 1: But thank you for saying it, thank you for writing
Speaker 1: about it. And and I think some might be listening like,
Speaker 1: why is this un a financial personal fine podcast? Well,
Speaker 1: because were whole people, and this comes into the equation
Speaker 1: of parenthood, motherhood, working, staying at home, dealing with financial decisions,
Speaker 1: Like all of these things intersect and converge and affect
Speaker 1: one another. And if one area is not aimed at
Speaker 1: well being, then it's going to affect all other areas.
Speaker 1: And so to be able to create space to say, listen,
Speaker 1: you're not crazy, there's nothing wrong with you. There's a
Speaker 1: reason that this is happening. But we don't want to
Speaker 1: set up camp there. We don't want to forever live
Speaker 1: out of this place. And so I'm so thrilled to
Speaker 1: hear that your husband actually had his sights on let's
Speaker 1: bring help into place. For some this might be a
Speaker 1: you're fine, just get over it. It's like not the
Speaker 1: message that we want to be spreading necessarily, and sometimes
Speaker 1: that's what we speak to ourselves. But I think so
Speaker 1: much of what you were saying is reaching out for help.
Speaker 1: Being able to say, listen, here's some of the dark
Speaker 1: thoughts that are happening. Just getting it out of our
Speaker 1: heads can help to take like the mystery and the
Speaker 1: legs out from under it, and it creates this space
Speaker 1: to then be able to respond to it. So anyhow,
Speaker 1: if I can pull anything out of what you've said
Speaker 1: to encourage other people, it's certainly, well, you're not crazy
Speaker 1: and this happened for a reason, and say it, speak
Speaker 1: it out to a trusted person. There is no shame
Speaker 1: in getting some of that help like you described, so
Speaker 1: well done. Thank you glad that that you got the
Speaker 1: help that you needed in that situation. Give me too.
Speaker 1: And you know, every chapter in my book starts with
Speaker 1: a personal story that tied to a money lesson, and
Speaker 1: I shared that story in a chapter where I talked
Speaker 1: about the importance of vulnerability. And you know, mental health
Speaker 1: is just as taboo of a topic as money is,
Speaker 1: so in that chapter I talked a lot about sharing
Speaker 1: your money, like if you're having money trouble or even
Speaker 1: being vulnerable, and sharing your of money goals, your money wins.
Speaker 1: And the hard part about that is like people might
Speaker 1: not have the reactions that you want the mental health
Speaker 1: thing or the money thing, and you might lose some
Speaker 1: people along the way who like can't handle things or
Speaker 1: have to set up boundaries. But that's kind of like
Speaker 1: why I shared that in a money book to kind
Speaker 1: of talk about the importance of vulnerability. Yeah, I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you did. Like when you were telling your story,
Speaker 1: I heard a lot of my story in it. Like
Speaker 1: when I had my son, I had no idea. I
Speaker 1: had this idea in my head of what it was
Speaker 1: should be like, but I had no idea like what
Speaker 1: it was going to be like in reality. Like I
Speaker 1: knew it was gonna be hard, because people say new
Speaker 1: words are hard, But I thought postpartum depression was just
Speaker 1: like feeling thoughts of like harming yourself or someone else
Speaker 1: or something. So I don't know if that would that
Speaker 1: would be depression, but just thoughts of harming yourself, which
Speaker 1: I did not have. So I just thought that I
Speaker 1: was being I was tired or overwhelmed. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: until like looking back and having like some space between
Speaker 1: me and that season that I realized, like I had
Speaker 1: postpartum anxiety, and I like never got help for it
Speaker 1: because we didn't My husband didn't know. I didn't know
Speaker 1: like nobody around us had experienced it, or at least
Speaker 1: where if they had, they hadn't talked about experiencing it,
Speaker 1: and Facebook was not helpful. Like everyone is sharing more
Speaker 1: on Facebook about like their stories and stuff, but I
Speaker 1: think we see more of like the extreme stories, and
Speaker 1: mine was just like very under the radar, like I
Speaker 1: thought I would. Um, like I have a group, like
Speaker 1: a accountability group that I meet with every week, and
Speaker 1: I was like four weeks after Kai was born, I
Speaker 1: was like, I have to write a book because having
Speaker 1: kids and having more kids only gets harder, and so
Speaker 1: like I have to write a book and so I'll
Speaker 1: publish it now because it's just going to get harder
Speaker 1: and I need to be doing so much in my
Speaker 1: business because I took time off and all of this
Speaker 1: and there and all these kids are all these my
Speaker 1: friends with older kids are like, no, it doesn't get harder,
Speaker 1: it gets easier when they get older. And I like
Speaker 1: just couldn't hear anybody like because I had all these
Speaker 1: thoughts in my head and so like, now that it's
Speaker 1: like calmed down, I really wish that I had just
Speaker 1: had people to be vulnerable with, because I can see
Speaker 1: how it's so easy to make financial decisions in those
Speaker 1: for six months that you could really regret later on
Speaker 1: and it could be due to undiagnosed, you know, something postpartum,
Speaker 1: and so thankfully my mistake was just trying to work
Speaker 1: too hard. But but yeah, man, I just wish it
Speaker 1: was talked about more. I think the thing that stands
Speaker 1: out to me in both of your stories is just
Speaker 1: the isolation piece, like the loneliness that can com especially
Speaker 1: in those initial stages of motherhood and thinking you have
Speaker 1: to do it alone, which I think is such a
Speaker 1: societal piece, and having those around you in your circle
Speaker 1: who aren't asking those questions. I think that's what standing
Speaker 1: out to me the most is even like Jen, like
Speaker 1: you do have people, but some of it is like
Speaker 1: your own permission to say these things, or your own
Speaker 1: kindness towards yourself, and so I think having people beforehand,
Speaker 1: kind of having your sights on this, and then go
Speaker 1: throughout motherhood having people in your corner, trusted individuals. It
Speaker 1: might only be like one or two, maybe three if
Speaker 1: you're super lucky, but yeah, having a close community, like
Speaker 1: you said, Jen, that you can be vulnerable with who
Speaker 1: you can invite into that place. I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the key components and protective factors of how you
Speaker 1: get through this because sometimes, like you said, you don't
Speaker 1: even know exactly what's going on inside of you. You
Speaker 1: just no, I feel a little off, but I don't
Speaker 1: even know how to describe it. So yeah, surrounding yourself
Speaker 1: with trusted people is such a huge component. Yeah. Well, Kat,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on and sharing thoughts
Speaker 1: from your new book. Where can people get more from you? Sure? Well,
Speaker 1: my book Mom's Got Money is available anywhere books are sold,
Speaker 1: and you can even request it from your local library
Speaker 1: if you'd like. And my website is Catherine Alford dot com.
Speaker 1: There's a free like Mom's Got Money starter pack they
Speaker 1: can download on my website which has some of the
Speaker 1: charts from the books and just some ways to get
Speaker 1: started if people are really at ground zero. I'm always
Speaker 1: on the ground. That's my preferred social media and I'm
Speaker 1: Katherine's be offered on the ground awesome, and we'll have
Speaker 1: links to all those in our show notes. Thanks again
Speaker 1: for joining us, Thank you Jenn, and thanks for sharing
Speaker 1: your story too, and Joel for offering such kind advice.
Speaker 1: I love your voices like so soothing and like can
Speaker 1: we try to get I really appreciate you guys having
Speaker 1: me on. Thank you thank you for your time. Cat,
Speaker 1: that was amazing, especially that little part in the end.
Speaker 1: We don't, I mean, that's not a normal thing where
Speaker 1: that's not going to be normal moving forward. It's so
Speaker 1: necessary and I think we need to hear in all
Speaker 1: the spaces the reality of what life is navigating parenting
Speaker 1: and finances and all of these things converge. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean Cat even said it, it's
Speaker 1: one of the two top taboo things to talk about
Speaker 1: his mental health and finances, and those are the two
Speaker 1: fields I'm in. So you best believe we're going to
Speaker 1: be getting into some taboo topics because they need to
Speaker 1: be talked about if we're going to be aimed at
Speaker 1: well being. Yeah, and I hope as if you are
Speaker 1: a mom listening to this, or you want to be
Speaker 1: a mom and you're listening to this, I hope that
Speaker 1: you feel connected in a way to other mothers because
Speaker 1: I mean, like our revelation that we were having last night,
Speaker 1: like there are no women in the top ten wealthiest
Speaker 1: women that have made that for themselves, and like there
Speaker 1: are definitely successful women, but I think we have too
Speaker 1: far to go when we compare ourselves to men to
Speaker 1: be against each other. We have to support each other,
Speaker 1: we have to connect to each other because we will
Speaker 1: go faster alone but further together. And we have so
Speaker 1: far to go. And I just hope that this makes
Speaker 1: you feel motivated to do more, whether that's with money
Speaker 1: or with whatever is in your life that you're you're
Speaker 1: feeling and lack in, and that you can confide in
Speaker 1: your your girlfriends, your mom f and that we can
Speaker 1: close this gap together. Maybe not in our lifetime, but
Speaker 1: our children's are their children's lifetime. There's so much we
Speaker 1: can accomplish in our lifetime, though, so let's do it.
Speaker 1: I know if you look at those top ten men,
Speaker 1: they all did that in their lifetime, so so enlightening. Anyways,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening and for your kind
Speaker 1: reviews on iTunes and Stitcher. I know there was a
Speaker 1: conversation in the Frugal Fronts community on Facebook about how
Speaker 1: hard it is to review on Stitcher, which is why
Speaker 1: we don't read a lot from them. So if you're
Speaker 1: on Stitcher, google how to review us, because I can't
Speaker 1: tell you. I have an Apple, just like overworked Anna,
Speaker 1: who gave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and said
Speaker 1: love it. I work in healthcare and rarely have free time.
Speaker 1: I find myself walking a longer route or taking a
Speaker 1: bit longer just so I can listen to your podcast
Speaker 1: in between duties. I absolutely love the both of you
Speaker 1: and have learned so much and gave a ton of
Speaker 1: useful info for your podcast. Definitely the highlight of my days.
Speaker 1: Thank you both and keep it coming. Thank you Anna
Speaker 1: for working in healthcare. Yes so much? What what an
Speaker 1: amazing powerhouse of a person. I'm sorry that you're feeling overworked.
Speaker 1: I hope you get some rest, but glad to hear
Speaker 1: you're taking the long route just to hear our voice.
Speaker 1: I know we can incorporate more rest in your life
Speaker 1: by just talking longer. We will. I enjoy the image
Speaker 1: of you walking down the corridors of a hospital listening
Speaker 1: to our voices. Thanks for taking us with you into
Speaker 1: that setting. We also want to thank our friends who
Speaker 1: share these episodes on social media. So when you share
Speaker 1: the latest episode and tag us on Facebook or Instagram,
Speaker 1: we add you to our monthly drawing. What's our monthly
Speaker 1: drawing you? As for every five tags and reviews we
Speaker 1: get each month, we give away a copy of the
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends workbook written by yours truly, Jen, and so
Speaker 1: keep leaving us those reviews on iTunes and stitchers. Send
Speaker 1: the screenshot to Frugal Friends podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to take us on social. We do see it,
Speaker 1: even if it's a little late, and see I see
Speaker 1: you next week. To be kind to yourself. Frugal Friends
Speaker 1: is produced by Eric Sirian. So, I want to revisit
Speaker 1: when you were saying I was abandoning my child, because
Speaker 1: I don't want people to think I'm over dramatic. I
Speaker 1: was saying I feel like I was trying to to
Speaker 1: to verbalize my feelings even though those feelings were unreasonable.
Speaker 1: So feeling like I abandoned my child by just watching
Speaker 1: him play with Travis in the pool, Yes, that wasn't reasonable,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you have unreasonable thoughts in your head. So
Speaker 1: I think I was trying to get that out and
Speaker 1: say out loud so that I could hear how unreasonable
Speaker 1: it sounded. Yeah, I'm glad that you spoke it out
Speaker 1: loud because it helps to get it out of your head.
Speaker 1: But I'm still going to respond to you and say
Speaker 1: you're not abandoning your child. I'm going to help you.
Speaker 1: You are you are a voice of reason in my life.
Speaker 1: I do. I am vulnerable with you because you are
Speaker 1: a safe place. What's that phrase you use about vulnerability?
Speaker 1: Vulnerability without protection leads to exploitation. So yeah, you definitely
Speaker 1: have to find the right environments to be able to
Speaker 1: speak those things. You are safe with me. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: when you use the word abandon, I'm definitely gonna pounce
Speaker 1: on that. Thank you, thank you, I deserve it. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh jim my message to mom's, Oh my gosh. If
Speaker 1: I could just encourage people to be kind to themselves,
Speaker 1: that just seems to be such a massive barrier. It's
Speaker 1: just permission for kindness, Like whatever you would say to
Speaker 1: other people. I love. When we hung out last night,
Speaker 1: you're saying all these things. You're like, and I know
Speaker 1: exactly what you're gonna say, and you did. You said it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my word, you know the voice. So
Speaker 1: then it's just a matter of applying it, that same
Speaker 1: kindness to yourself that you show to other people. So
Speaker 1: oh so I'm just gonna keep saying it over and over.
Speaker 1: It's so simple. But until it sticks, be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1: I need to hear it. Something you matter in this equation.
Speaker 1: So do your kids, and so do you.