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Speaker 1: So uh. We we had a nice off air segue

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Speaker 1: into this that said, uh, speaking of band uh. Today's

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Speaker 1: episode is something that ruffled a lot of feathers when

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Speaker 1: it came out. This classic is about banned books of

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Speaker 1: the Bible, like the Book of van Halen, the Book

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Speaker 1: of led Zeppelin. No, you know, why not throw those

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Speaker 1: in there? There's the Book of Banned Books, which was

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Speaker 1: kind of shooting itself in the foot from the get go.

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Speaker 1: I think was like Greta. But in this case, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about I believe Enoch and several other fascinating possible

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Speaker 1: books of the Bible, and we'll talk about in the

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Speaker 1: episode which ones may have been in There may have

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Speaker 1: been just a completely different book, not written with the Bible,

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Speaker 1: but kind of matched up. Well, we'll talk about it.

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Speaker 1: It's so fascinating, isn't it. Still Like the there's this

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Speaker 1: assumption we make sometimes as a species that the book

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Speaker 1: you know as the Bible, whether that's the King James

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Speaker 1: version or what have you, that that book was somehow

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Speaker 1: whole and complete when people started reading it. It could

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Speaker 1: not be further from the truth. People were fighting about

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Speaker 1: which book goes where all the time. People still fight

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Speaker 1: about translations. Uh, it's it's a lot more like a

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Speaker 1: mixtape or kind of collaborative uh, acrimonious writing exercise. Sure,

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Speaker 1: when they say history is written by the winners, and

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Speaker 1: the same can be said of the Bible, that's right,

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Speaker 1: So let's let's dig into it. It's long the Bible,

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Speaker 1: the episode is. It's actually pretty moderately sized. So enjoy

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Speaker 1: from UFOs two Ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and

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Speaker 1: I'm end and that makes this stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. So right off the top, we uh,

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Speaker 1: we see that you guys have been enjoying our series

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Speaker 1: on the Bible and apocrypha and things of that nature,

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Speaker 1: and we got some feedback from some of you. So

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Speaker 1: right off the top here we're gonna we're going to

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Speaker 1: address some of the things that you wrote to us. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: First things first, we owe a big thank you to

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Speaker 1: John F. And Nate S. Both of these guys separately

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Speaker 1: wrote into give us a correction, and we welcome those

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Speaker 1: where John says, hey, guys, just saw band books of

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Speaker 1: the Bible. Episode. Looks like you generally did a great

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Speaker 1: job with your fact checking. There's one piece I thought

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Speaker 1: would bread more confusion than education. About one minute and

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that some books only exist in one version

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Speaker 1: of the Bible. While you're saying this, you're showing the

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Speaker 1: title page of the Book of Mormon and captioning first

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Speaker 1: book of me five Book of Mormon. This confusion would

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Speaker 1: be that the Book of Mormon never claims to be

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Speaker 1: a version of the Bible or missing book of the Bible.

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Speaker 1: It's an entirely separate book of scripture that the Church

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Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints asserts as harmonious

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Speaker 1: with the Bible. So he goes on to say, the

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Speaker 1: Book of Mormon does mention the existence of plates of Brass,

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Speaker 1: a version of the scriptures that existed at about six

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Speaker 1: hundred BC, and they evidently contained the five books of Moses, Azaiah,

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Speaker 1: and some of Jeremiah, along with some other lost writings,

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Speaker 1: writings of Xenoch, writings of Zenos. But again, the Book

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Speaker 1: of Mormon itself is not really a missing Biblical book.

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Speaker 1: And Nate wrote in to say very much the same

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Speaker 1: thing that the Book Mormon is a totally separate book,

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Speaker 1: and we appreciate that very much. We also want to

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Speaker 1: move on and reassure our buddy Sandy Rogers out there

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. Sandy, you wrote to us. You're an Old

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Speaker 1: Testament scholar, and uh you wrote to us with something

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Speaker 1: that was an editing error on my part. There's a

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Speaker 1: part in or where we talk about uh the first

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Speaker 1: five books of the Bible, and the date there is

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Speaker 1: listed as twelve fifty BC as those books becoming accepted

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Speaker 1: as law. That is incorrect, and that editing error came

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Speaker 1: from one of the things that I was doing at

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Speaker 1: the time. Guys. I started out with a script that

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Speaker 1: would probably be about ten ten pages long, and because

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Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about with this, and so

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Speaker 1: I was shaving the script down further and further and further,

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Speaker 1: especially the complex process or evolution, right, which is weird,

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Speaker 1: but it's the best term for evolution of the Bible.

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Speaker 1: That I had messed up some of the dates when

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Speaker 1: I was cutting things down and swishing them back together.

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Speaker 1: You can find reference to UH this date, specifically the

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Speaker 1: twelve fifty BC date, in a excellent Straight Dope article

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Speaker 1: on the authorship of the Bible. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: five part article. I think is in part one because

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Speaker 1: logically it's at the beginning with all that out of

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Speaker 1: the way, and thank you to Sandy, Nate and John again. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we still had a pretty kick ass episode, oh I

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Speaker 1: think so, and a lot of that was doing part

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Speaker 1: two our working with all time Conspiracies again, one of

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Speaker 1: our favorite YouTube channels. Really appreciate it. Guys, if you're listening,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully if you're listening to this, maybe you like

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Speaker 1: that Channel two. They're tremendously exciting. I I watched their

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Speaker 1: videos on the edge of my seat. Yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: like our show, you'll like There's There's as well. And

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Speaker 1: one other thing I want to just mention here, Ben

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Speaker 1: and I want to get your opinion on it. I

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Speaker 1: noticed that there were a lot of YouTube YouTube comments

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Speaker 1: saying that they disliked our use of b C E

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Speaker 1: as in before common era and CE common era rather

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Speaker 1: than b C and A d um. And that is

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Speaker 1: the at least from a handbook standpoint of writing. Handbook standpoint,

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Speaker 1: that is the correct way to write that, is it not?

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a stylistic choice one that I honestly,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't care either way about because you know, we

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Speaker 1: we get the language, and these conventions descended from a

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Speaker 1: legacy of other use. The modern environment right admittedly more

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Speaker 1: secular than when the terms BC and A D were made.

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Speaker 1: The idea before Christ and then after the death of Christ,

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Speaker 1: and in many cultures that do not, you know, do

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Speaker 1: not have a large Christian population, you might see that

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Speaker 1: date used just because it was around and is what

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Speaker 1: people understand it, right, And it's kind of like how

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Speaker 1: when people say awesome, at least in the United States,

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Speaker 1: they don't mean awe inspiring. When people say brilliant in

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Speaker 1: England they mean okay, uh this you know, this is

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Speaker 1: an interesting question for you to bring up here because

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Speaker 1: from what I understood what I was looking at, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the comments people thought it was going out

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Speaker 1: of the way to be politically correct. That's that's what

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Speaker 1: I saw mostly. But I think, again, what is the

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Speaker 1: name of that style guide that there's M L A

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Speaker 1: and there's a PI A. The A P A is

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Speaker 1: the one that I've always ended up using, but I

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Speaker 1: know and there its states C E and B C

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Speaker 1: are the correct way now, ah yeah, And you'll see

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Speaker 1: B C E UH and C E in quite a

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Speaker 1: few academic papers as well. For for our purposes, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to sound disrespectful to either secularists or

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Speaker 1: the religious, but uh, for our purposes there, at least

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Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, they're markings in time. But

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Speaker 1: I know that a lot of other people care much

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Speaker 1: more deeply about this. And if there's an overwhelming thing,

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Speaker 1: if you have an overwhelming reason why I think we

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Speaker 1: should use B C E and C E or B

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Speaker 1: C and A d uh, then please right in because

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Speaker 1: that Matt, I think this is something a little closer

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Speaker 1: to you than it is to me. To me, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of either way. It's either way for me, I

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Speaker 1: guess because we were making an episode specifically about the

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Speaker 1: Bible in Jesus, maybe people saw that there was some

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Speaker 1: kind of discrepancy there. That's a good point. But I

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Speaker 1: think we've done B C E and C E for

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Speaker 1: a very long time on our show in total, and

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Speaker 1: we probably had a lot of new people watching that

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Speaker 1: video because of the all time conspiracy thing. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to get your opinion, because yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm interesting, I'm interested to us see what people think.

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Speaker 1: The point of it being bad for the sake of

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Speaker 1: political correctness. I guess that's a valid perspective, for sure,

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Speaker 1: I could see it. But that's not why we were

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Speaker 1: doing it. That's not why I was doing it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what the motivation is. I

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Speaker 1: hear you. All right, Well, let's jump into some of

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Speaker 1: the core of what we talked about in our video series.

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Speaker 1: And the first thing that we looked at is apocrypha.

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Speaker 1: And what is apocrypha. Apocrypha would be, if you defined it,

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Speaker 1: the writings or statements that have dubious authenticity. I really

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Speaker 1: like that phrasing, dubious authenticity. I'm not really sure who

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Speaker 1: wrote this. That's very polite, Yeah, exactly, very BC oh Man.

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Speaker 1: But it has another meaning as well, in the proper sense,

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Speaker 1: when you know, when it's capitalized. It can refer specifically

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Speaker 1: to books that were included in the Septigent and the

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Speaker 1: Vulgate but excluded from the Jewish and Protestant canons of

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament. Right, that's right, And there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of early Christian writings that were not included in

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Speaker 1: the New Testament. Right, and the the origin of it.

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Speaker 1: The etymology is the is Latin and it means secret,

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Speaker 1: not canonical. Comes from Greek apocryphos obscure to hide away.

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Speaker 1: Apocryphos is one of my new favorite words. I know

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a d. C. Villain, doesn't it? Apocryphos? Uh? Yes,

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Speaker 1: So we know that apocrypha can have a very specific

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Speaker 1: definition depending upon one's denomination. One thing that we discovered

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Speaker 1: as we're working on our series is that it took

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Speaker 1: a while for Christianity in general to develop a canon,

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Speaker 1: and in depending upon the type of Christianity that we're

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Speaker 1: looking at, that canon or that idea of what is

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Speaker 1: canonical changes. And we talked about how when people were

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Speaker 1: deciding what to leave in the Bible, what to make

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Speaker 1: a fish, then they would give themselves kind of a

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Speaker 1: rubric and they would say, well, we'll leave it in

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Speaker 1: the Bible if it is from the apostles, if it

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Speaker 1: is clearly inspired by God and true and not written

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Speaker 1: by people. Okay, let's put it this way, Ben, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna come to you with some books, uh. And these

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Speaker 1: are books that these are writings, early writings that I

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Speaker 1: want to have included in the Bible. And here are

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Speaker 1: some reasons that you say, no, dude, okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'm into it. So I come to you with you

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Speaker 1: this book, and it's obviously fraudulent. It was created far

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Speaker 1: after the original works that were that are already included

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Speaker 1: in what you think should be the Bible, and they're

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Speaker 1: made to create some kind of political point or stance

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Speaker 1: or maybe a statement, um, maybe even to sucker somebody

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Speaker 1: into believing a certain thing I seek. But they're they're

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Speaker 1: obviously fraudulent, Like let me write the end down here, okay, yeah. See.

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Speaker 1: Or if I came to you with a book that

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Speaker 1: you believe is not inspired by God or written instead

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Speaker 1: by a man or somebody that you know to be

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Speaker 1: a man, um, just a human being, you're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's Bob over there. He definitely wrote this. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: probably not going to go in Okay. So something like

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Speaker 1: and Mary spake unto the masses saying Bob, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's awesome. And I mean that in the real sense

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Speaker 1: of the word, especially if it's quoting Jesus perhaps, I

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Speaker 1: mean that's you can't put that in the Bible. Here's

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Speaker 1: another reason I bring a book to you that has

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Speaker 1: glaring errors, like historical errors in them, so such as

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Speaker 1: the Book of Judith where it said Nebuchadnezzar the second

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Speaker 1: was the king of uh what is it, Niver, rather

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Speaker 1: than Babylon, which he was the king of Babylon at

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Speaker 1: least historically. Okay, I see what you're saying. So matters

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Speaker 1: of known secular fact for instance, or wrong, or maybe

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Speaker 1: they these books contradict things that are already set forth

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Speaker 1: and agreed on in the canon exactly. Perhaps someone was

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Speaker 1: trying to rewrite history, as we have seen people are

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Speaker 1: wanting to do. Sometimes the last thing is if it's

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Speaker 1: heretical or it's against the doctrine that's already in place.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you really don't want to mess with the

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Speaker 1: current canonical belief system because you do that, and uh,

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Speaker 1: back in the day, there were probably some serious consequences.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I see what you're saying. So we also

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Speaker 1: have examples of some of the books that were banned.

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Speaker 1: So we asked you, if you watch the YouTube episode two,

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Speaker 1: suggest for us in our update video some books that

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Speaker 1: we should take a closer look at, and we just

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Speaker 1: wanted to run through a few of those. Unfortunately, as

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Speaker 1: we said in the video, we couldn't choose everything. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but one of the first ones was the Book of Enoch. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In in the Book of Enoch, it describes in great

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Speaker 1: detail all of these different trips that were taken by

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Speaker 1: Enoch to Heaven in various forms. So the Book of

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Speaker 1: Enoch itself is separated into these five sections. You've got

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Speaker 1: the Book of Watchers, the Book of Parables of Enoch,

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Speaker 1: the Astronomical Book, the Book of dream Visions, and the

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Speaker 1: Epistle of Enoch. And each one of these different sections

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Speaker 1: of the Book of Enoch has its own take on

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Speaker 1: Christian history, and it gives you all kinds of interesting

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Speaker 1: concepts that have been used throughout time. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: a fascinating book and I'd recommend anybody who has the

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Speaker 1: time go out and find a copy, or you know,

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Speaker 1: find it online somewhere, right, Yeah, you can find this online.

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Speaker 1: It's not a it's not some hidden grimoire or something

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Speaker 1: like that. And unfortunately, the same unique takes are part

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Speaker 1: of the reason that this book was banned are classified

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Speaker 1: rather as an apocryphal text. A lot of scholars believe

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Speaker 1: it's because it had these detailed portrayals of the fallen

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Speaker 1: angels or more ominously the Watchers. That's the coolest part

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Speaker 1: to me about the whole book. Yeah, to me, that's

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Speaker 1: the coolest part too. There's a quote here from Free

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Speaker 1: Republic that I enjoyed and I wanted to just read

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Speaker 1: for you guys on the show. Here, this scripture reads

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Speaker 1: like a modern day action film telling a fallen angels,

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Speaker 1: bloodthirsty giants, and Earth that had become home to an

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Speaker 1: increasingly flawed humanity and a divine judgment to be rendered.

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Speaker 1: So it does sound kind of like an action movie.

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Speaker 1: And if you get a chance, you know, Matt, you're right,

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Speaker 1: check it out and read it. But because of because

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that it dealt with, especially the weird

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Speaker 1: question of that the fallen Angels, the Watchers, Nephilin, all

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, the Western Bibles don't use it.

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Speaker 1: However Ethiopian Christians do. Yeah, that's really cool. And it

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Speaker 1: should be noted that a lot of this was recovered

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Speaker 1: through the Dead Sea Scrolls. Um forget the date when

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Speaker 1: those are found. I know we talked about it, but

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Speaker 1: the Dead Sea Scrolls are a whole another thing. If

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Speaker 1: you have not looked that up, take a moment, maybe

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours, maybe a weekend. Just look out

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Speaker 1: the Dead Sea scrolls. Fascinating stuff. Yeah, cancel what you're

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Speaker 1: doing for the next day. Yeah. Well, if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in this stuff at all, you probably already know about it.

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Speaker 1: But even if you're not, Uh, there's some crazy, awesome

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Speaker 1: history there. And see how he used awesome by the way,

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Speaker 1: I think it's awesome. Yeah. Uh. And next we have

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Speaker 1: a little something called the Gospel of Mary. So this

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Speaker 1: is the second of the banned books of the Bible,

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Speaker 1: and it was carbon dated between eighteen hundred and one

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Speaker 1: D so there's a bit of a range there when

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Speaker 1: this could have been produced. The Gospel of Mary looks

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Speaker 1: at the relationship between Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalen. So,

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Speaker 1: as the writings go, Mary was Jesus's most trusted companion

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Speaker 1: um and I use the word companion there to imply

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Speaker 1: what the book implies, Okay, And a lot of the

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Speaker 1: other apostles really didn't like that fact, and they despised her.

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Speaker 1: So in the Gospel of Mary, Jesus reminds the apostles

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Speaker 1: that the inner self is comprised of a couple of things,

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Speaker 1: the spirit, the soul, and the mind, and all ultimate salvation.

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Speaker 1: He says in this that it comes from within each person.

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Speaker 1: So it's not something that you can go out and get.

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Speaker 1: You have to find it inside yourself. And it's not

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Speaker 1: something you need an intermediary exactly like a clergy for

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Speaker 1: If it's inside you, nobody has to exercise it. You

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Speaker 1: just have to find it. And that was that was

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Speaker 1: kind of a heavy blow to the Book of Mary

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Speaker 1: Magdalen when people are looking at whether or not you

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Speaker 1: should go in the Bible. Yeah, not to mention the

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Speaker 1: way that it contradicts some of the more patriarchal teachings

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Speaker 1: that became a doctrine for a long time. And it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a gnostic text too. Uh, the idea that

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Speaker 1: Mary Magdalen might have been an apostle, maybe even one

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Speaker 1: of the top dog apostles. Uh. Some text in the Bible,

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Speaker 1: you know, controversially seemed to deny women a voice in

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Speaker 1: in parts of it. And again, this is all we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a book with multiple authors over multiple periods

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Speaker 1: of time. Uh. This text is often thought to be

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Speaker 1: a major flashpoint for the debate about the role of

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Speaker 1: women in the Christian Church, and this idea that Jesus

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Speaker 1: would share secret knowledge with Mary that he wouldn't share

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Speaker 1: with the rest of the gang. Is uh something that's

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Speaker 1: gonna pop up in another band book. It's it creates

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Speaker 1: such an interesting picture in my head of the idea

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Speaker 1: that perhaps Mary was kind of jesus right hand person.

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Speaker 1: And then all the other apostles are so jealous and

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Speaker 1: angry about it. They're just throw accusations she's a prostitute,

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Speaker 1: she's a bad person. I don't I'm so I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that that is true in any way. I think

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Speaker 1: it just creates a very interesting picture interest. Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: And then there's there's the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. The

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Speaker 1: gist of it is sort of a young Jesus, Jesus

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Speaker 1: as a kid. Uh And again, not to be disrespectful

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Speaker 1: in any way. It made me think of when UH

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Speaker 1: TV shows have the young version of something come out,

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Speaker 1: like young Indiana Jones and those things. Yeah, those prequels

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and they don't quite take off, uh successfully either.

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Speaker 1: And and there's an you know, it's not just that

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Speaker 1: Jesus was a young person in this, you know, before

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Speaker 1: he turned in his thirties and stuff. Instead, this is

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Speaker 1: because it depicts the Gospel, The Infancy Gospel of Thomas

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Speaker 1: depicts Jesus in a much different light in terms of

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Speaker 1: behavior and everything. Well yeah, okay, well let's just go

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Speaker 1: ahead and say what it is that was in there

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Speaker 1: some of the things. So the book deals with a

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Speaker 1: strong willed young Jesus who did a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: One in particular may not be good for the at

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Speaker 1: least the story of Jesus. It it says that around

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Speaker 1: age five, Jesus may or may not have pushed another

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Speaker 1: kid off of a roof, killing him and then bringing

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Speaker 1: him back to life Jesus style. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's pretty disturbing, especially to be included in the

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Speaker 1: idea already of this picture that's been painted of Jesus

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Speaker 1: as it is non you know, well somewhat non violent guy.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a really good point. Many would

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Speaker 1: I mean, is that a sin? Killing somebody? And then

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Speaker 1: if you bring him back to life, is it still

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Speaker 1: a sin? Can you imagine the debates that would have

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Speaker 1: to occur. Wow, that's really that's a deep question too.

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Speaker 1: And and the the idea that it could set up

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Speaker 1: such a precedent in the church at large. Wow, that

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Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. So there's a doctrinal difference

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Speaker 1: there too. And at this point, I think, before we

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Speaker 1: move on to the next one, it's very important for

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Speaker 1: us to say that we are not in any way

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Speaker 1: criticizing and historical Jesus Christ. What we're doing, more so

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Speaker 1: is following the sort of wonderful tapestry of things that

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Speaker 1: sprang up again from you know, oral traditions and from

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Speaker 1: translations that were not always the best and sometimes translations

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Speaker 1: of translations. Yeah, definitely, And to me, there's something there's

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Speaker 1: something beautiful about the idea that this sort of thing

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Speaker 1: could exist and all these other all these other variations

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Speaker 1: of it come come out because you know, what it

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Speaker 1: kind of makes me think of is if it's if

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Speaker 1: we take a book that is clearly written by a

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Speaker 1: person who is a fraudster or something, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: fan fiction, Matt, It's so similar. So then of course,

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Speaker 1: if you're the person in charge of maintaining the actual

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Speaker 1: book after the cannon has been decided, then you're not

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Speaker 1: going to include fan fiction. Uh. It's it's a weird,

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Speaker 1: awkward comparison, but it is very important. We have one

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Speaker 1: more book that you suggested that we wanted to check

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Speaker 1: into listeners, and that is the gospel of Judas. Now

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Speaker 1: we're all familiar with Judas, the guy who aid Jesus

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Speaker 1: and got some silver for it, and they hanged him

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Speaker 1: seeing himself. Okay, So that's the guy that this story

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Speaker 1: is at least the perspective of Judas, that's what this

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Speaker 1: is about. So uh, there are conversations between Jesus Christ

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Speaker 1: and the apostle Judas is Scariot, and it provides hard

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Speaker 1: to find example of how Jesus interacted with his kind

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Speaker 1: of his closest people, His closest allies and the teachings

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Speaker 1: of Jesus are the main focus of this book, and

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Speaker 1: it provides again a really unique and interesting perspective on

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Speaker 1: how Jesus used his apostles to kind of maximize his

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Speaker 1: efforts in spreading out the faith that that he was spreading.

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Speaker 1: So the Book of Judas itself, the Catholic Church considers

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Speaker 1: it apocryphal because it portrays Judas is carry it as

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Speaker 1: a good guy, as a decent person. In fact, it

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Speaker 1: portrays him as someone who is doing what Jesus told

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Speaker 1: him to do from the beginning to the end, including

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Speaker 1: you know, including the Last Supper and taking the bribe

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Speaker 1: and ultimately playing such an influential hand in the crucifixion. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this one in particular, it strikes me pretty hard because

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Speaker 1: I I am fascinated by the idea that the entire

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Speaker 1: lifespan of Jesus, if he if he is a you know,

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Speaker 1: he is God, but not God. But you know it again,

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Speaker 1: that's a whole another story we can get into. That's

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Speaker 1: the huge doctrinal conversation that they had at the first

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Speaker 1: Council of Nicea right exactly, which is not where the

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Speaker 1: Bible was finalized or books were deemed apocrypha, and and

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Speaker 1: there are all kinds of arguments you can have with

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Speaker 1: you could argue for a thousand years about this stuff.

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Speaker 1: But the idea that if Jesus could see how his

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Speaker 1: life was going to play out, he would know that

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Speaker 1: there is someone Judas who was going to betray him

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Speaker 1: so that he would get crucified, so that he would

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Speaker 1: return back into heaven. Right. So in in this Gospel

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Speaker 1: of Judas is is just wonderfully fascinating to me because

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Speaker 1: I that idea that in order for Judas to truly

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Speaker 1: trust Jesus and follow along with what he wanted. He

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Speaker 1: just had to do that thing. Yeah. Controversial to say

408
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Speaker 1: the very least about it, because you know, Judas is

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Speaker 1: one of the very complex characters in in the narrative

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Speaker 1: of the Bible, and so to flip it to have

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Speaker 1: this weird, honestly, to have this weird m Night Shamalan

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Speaker 1: kind of thing with it where he is not only

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Speaker 1: a good person, but maybe the best of the disciples

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Speaker 1: because he's following orders even unto killing uh, the person

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Speaker 1: who he worships. And this goes straight into nasticism, right, Matt,

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Speaker 1: the concept of dualism. Yes, that's where you get as above,

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Speaker 1: so below you get all kinds of fun things from narcissism, Sophia,

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Speaker 1: Yalda both all that stuff and in Yin Yang as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so of course this book ends up being banned

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Speaker 1: because it's supernostic in its tone and content. It's set

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Speaker 1: Judas above the other disciples. And you know, if you

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Speaker 1: have the Catholic Church, for instance, which was founded on

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Speaker 1: the rock with St. Peter, right, well, then having Judases

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Speaker 1: carry it then be the primary hidden hero, right or

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Speaker 1: the the main sidekick. I guess you wouldn't be the

426
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Speaker 1: hero of the Bible, but the main person that's not

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Speaker 1: only controversial, but in a lot of ways from from

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Speaker 1: the church's perspective, it could be dangerous. Yeah, oh yeah, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to put out here that one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that this, all of these apocryphal texts

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00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: are so interesting is it's a matter of perspective, and

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00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: something we talked about a lot. If you can give

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00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: yourself enough perspective on anyone's situation, you're going to realize

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00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: that once you once you can see it all from

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00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: all the angles, it is everything, and especially the Bible

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00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: is so much more complicated than if you just look

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00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: at it from one perspective. I think that's a really

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00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: good pointment. Then. Also, uh, this brings to minds a

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00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: question that I got. I was asked years and years

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00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: ago and I have been thinking about it ever since.

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00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: And that question was to whom does a work belong

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00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: after it is written. This was for a secular book,

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Speaker 1: you know, with a single author that we know of,

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Speaker 1: And I was having this argument with a couple of

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Speaker 1: professors that I knew, and the the argument that they

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Speaker 1: were making as well, after a book is written, write

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00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: a novel whatever. Uh, the interpretation of it and what

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00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: it means, and the people who own it are the

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00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: readers or the critics. Now let's just go ahead and

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00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: bracket the huge conflict of interests. Of course, a professor

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00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: or critic or someone whose job is it is to

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00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: analyze literature would say, well, you know, it's up to us.

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Speaker 1: We're the ones because people like to be important. And uh.

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Speaker 1: It's the same way that someone who sells tires will

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00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: tell you that you need uh tires. There you right,

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00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, and usually that's that's true for all the

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00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: mechanics uh and gear heads in or audience. You guys

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00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: know as well as I do that people don't take

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00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: care of their tires. But that's a different show. That's

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00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: a different show. I need to head over, um which

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00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: not Kaufman Tires, just this guy we know named Kaufman.

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00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: He just collects tires. But uh, but yes, the point

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00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: that I make there is that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: debate about apocrypha, or the debate about banning uh certain

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00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: things from a Bible or creating a canonical version of it,

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00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: goes back to the same old debate about who who

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Speaker 1: has ownership or authority over the Bible. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons there are so many splits

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Speaker 1: in the very space, you know, as it's as Christianity

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00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: was growing, because everybody had a different opinion, at least

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00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: the people in power, and there you go, you get

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00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: all the varying versions. And what is also exciting is

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Speaker 1: to realize that while history from our limited perspective, you

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Speaker 1: met me, everybody listening to this from our limited perspective,

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00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: it's easy to mistake history for a static thing, or

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00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: for these large institutions for unchanging things. But it couldn't

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00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: be further from the truth. They just appear not to

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00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: move because they have such a longer lifespan than we do.

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00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: And the truth of the matter is that not only

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00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: have they not only have they changed, evolved, omitted, reverse

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00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: and expanded over time, but those same changes are probably

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00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: not done. We're you know, we don't know. Another version

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00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: of a Bible may come out, new books may be

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00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: added and then even eventually accepted. It really is um

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Speaker 1: important to emphasize that the march of history and the

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00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: growth of institutions is a continual process. It is not

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Speaker 1: something that happened once a few hundred years ago. Their

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00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: new archaeological discoveries all the time. Yeah, Nakamati, Egypt, some

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00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: of these things were found. That's uh. Man, we just

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00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: gotta keep digging. Yeah, we have to keep digging, and

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00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: we hope that you will keep digging with us. So

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Speaker 1: the verdict the end of the show here is that, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it was stuff the early Church did not want you

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Speaker 1: to know. And that doesn't mean it was necessarily bad.

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00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: It's just we're trying to get contradictions out of there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a group of people, varying groups of people

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Speaker 1: over time that wanted to protect what they thought was

498
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: saying sacres. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the perfect word for it.

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Speaker 1: So we'd like to hear what you think about the apocrypha,

500
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: and we'd also like to hear what you think we

501
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: should be digging too more deeply in the future. Check

502
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: out our website Stuff they Don't Want You to Know

503
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: dot Com where you can see all of our videos

504
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: and all of our podcasts, and Matt, we're all over

505
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: the internet right now. We're on Facebook, We're conspiracy stuff there,

506
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: We're at conspiracy stuff on Twitter. And that's the end

507
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or

508
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: questions about this episode. You can get into contact with

509
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: us in a number of different ways. One of the

510
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: best is to give us a call. Our number is

511
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,160
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512
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: you don't want to do that, you can send us

513
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i

514
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to

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00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: know is a production of I heart Radio. For more

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00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

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00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,520
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