WEBVTT - Why Is a California Air Board Funding Natural Gas Expansion?

0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Drill. I'm Amy Westervelt. Today we're going

0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.080
<v Speaker 1>to hear from a reporter I had on during our

0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.680
<v Speaker 1>last season, Miranda Green from Floodlight, about a news story

0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.799
<v Speaker 1>she's got out right now once again about utilities and

0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.880
<v Speaker 1>air pollution and the push to maintain dominance for natural gas.

0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Miranda uncovered recently that a Los Angeles area air board

0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:40.199
<v Speaker 1>has spent millions to subsidize and promote gas, despite the

0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.120
<v Speaker 1>fact that as an air board it's tasked with cleaning

0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.519
<v Speaker 1>up air pollution, which gas definitely contributes to. There's a

0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.239
<v Speaker 1>utility angle here too, and lots of interesting details that

0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Miranda will walk us through. That conversation is coming up

0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:11.320
<v Speaker 1>right after this quick break. Tell me about how this

0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:13.000
<v Speaker 1>story came about.

0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, Los Angeles, which happens to be where I live,

0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.520
<v Speaker 2>is a community that is known for a lot of

0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.679
<v Speaker 2>great things. You know, we have wonderful beaches, we have

0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.520
<v Speaker 2>great sunshine. We're the Golden State. But when you start

0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.959
<v Speaker 2>looking into the data and the details about the air

0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.480
<v Speaker 2>pollution in you actually realize that there's some things that

0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.920
<v Speaker 2>are really not that golden about it. LA actually has

0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the worst smog pollution of any city in the United States,

0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.880
<v Speaker 2>which means that the air pollution around us in some

0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.840
<v Speaker 2>days you can't see the mountains that you're next to,

0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.560
<v Speaker 2>and also means that the air that you're breathing when

0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.560
<v Speaker 2>you're out on those runs on the beaches is not

0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.640
<v Speaker 2>very good for you. And it's something that local regulators

0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.400
<v Speaker 2>and officials have been aware of. There have been decades

0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.680
<v Speaker 2>where it's gotten better, in decades where it's gotten worse,

0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:06.040
<v Speaker 2>but it has still remains a major issue in the state,

0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.520
<v Speaker 2>despite kind of the messaging that we hear that California

0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.280
<v Speaker 2>is kind of on this environmental kick and it's kind

0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.920
<v Speaker 2>of the leader. And so I wanted to kind of

0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.000
<v Speaker 2>look into that disparity of how California can both claim

0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.200
<v Speaker 2>to be kind of at the cutting edge of environmentalism

0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.280
<v Speaker 2>but still have such bad pollution that communities that are

0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.200
<v Speaker 2>around some of these areas where the pollution is coming from,

0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.240
<v Speaker 2>around the ports of Los Angeles, around where some of

0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.200
<v Speaker 2>this oil and gas drilling is still occurring, how that

0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.880
<v Speaker 2>is still happening, and what's being done about it.

0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I don't want to give too much away

0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.480
<v Speaker 3>because I want you to tell us more about it,

0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.560
<v Speaker 3>but it sounds like a lot of the ways that

0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.840
<v Speaker 3>some of the local and state governments are trying to

0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.000
<v Speaker 3>get at this are not necessarily solving the problem.

0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.480
<v Speaker 4>Yes, and that is, you know, kind of been the

0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:56.000
<v Speaker 4>issue here.

0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.000
<v Speaker 2>There's always two sides to every debate, and despite California

0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.280
<v Speaker 2>being a largely blue state, there's still a lot of

0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.280
<v Speaker 2>arguments and disjointed feelings about how to tackle this issue.

0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.560
<v Speaker 2>One of the biggest issues here is that La County

0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.760
<v Speaker 2>is one of two airgistricts in the US, both of

0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.440
<v Speaker 2>them actually in California, that have never met federal OZEM

0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.639
<v Speaker 2>standards that were established back in nineteen ninety seven.

0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.120
<v Speaker 2>So they have never been able to just meet even

0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.120
<v Speaker 2>basic levels of standards for osen regulations.

0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:28.519
<v Speaker 4>That's staggering.

0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.600
<v Speaker 2>And one of the biggest issues is transportation. It's one

0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.440
<v Speaker 2>of the biggest sources of pollution and as you can imagine,

0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.560
<v Speaker 2>knowing Los Angeles, one of the biggest hurdles. And so

0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the argument and kind of the debate here has been

0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.920
<v Speaker 2>around what do we do about the vehicles that both

0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.640
<v Speaker 2>people are driving, but also the big rig trucks, the

0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.720
<v Speaker 2>heavy duty trucks that are responsible.

0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:51.520
<v Speaker 4>You're bringing all.

0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.200
<v Speaker 2>The things from the port exactly, and so that has

0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of been an ongoing debate for decades. I'm sure

0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot of us remember kind of the debates that

0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.200
<v Speaker 2>were happening underneath the bomb And administration when we had

0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.000
<v Speaker 2>with arguments that climate change had to be kind of

0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.200
<v Speaker 2>a there had to be a transition fuel, and this

0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.720
<v Speaker 2>idea that natural gas could be it. We can move

0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.760
<v Speaker 2>away from dirty coal, we can move away from dirty diesel,

0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.320
<v Speaker 2>and we could move towards a cleaner burning natural gas.

0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.599
<v Speaker 2>That is still a concept that I think is still

0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.040
<v Speaker 2>heavily being held onto here in California, despite the fact

0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.599
<v Speaker 2>that there's been obviously huge leaps and bounds in electric

0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.719
<v Speaker 2>vehicles and that there have been calls from a lot

0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:29.960
<v Speaker 2>of people in these communities that there needs to be

0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.840
<v Speaker 2>more investment in that area. And that's kind of where

0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:33.960
<v Speaker 2>my reporting starts.

0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so this is interesting because it definitely dovetails with

0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.560
<v Speaker 3>the reporting you talked to me about a few months ago,

0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.080
<v Speaker 3>where there was this effort at the ports of Los

0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 3>Angeles and Long Beach to deal with this problem and

0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.440
<v Speaker 3>this decision right about are we going to go with

0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.400
<v Speaker 3>natural gas powered trucks or electric? But this seems like

0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.440
<v Speaker 3>an issue throughout the region that entities are grappling with.

0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.240
<v Speaker 3>So what did you find out about how folks are

0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.080
<v Speaker 3>looking at this issue.

0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so one of the things that I realized and

0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.479
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to look at again is where is the

0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:14.080
<v Speaker 2>state investing in terms of this source, in terms of

0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.560
<v Speaker 2>how to fix this pollution issue. And you know, California

0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.039
<v Speaker 2>is a huge state. It has its Air and Resources Board,

0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.760
<v Speaker 2>which is kind of an overarching agency, and within that agency,

0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.680
<v Speaker 2>underneath it has a lot of local air boards that

0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.520
<v Speaker 2>are county wide, and California runs what are known as

0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.000
<v Speaker 2>incentive programs, so it takes federal and state dollars. Some

0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.400
<v Speaker 2>of the funds are appropriated through the legislature. Some of

0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.960
<v Speaker 2>the funds come from when you go to get your ideas,

0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:42.680
<v Speaker 2>you have to pay a fee, and those fees go

0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.359
<v Speaker 2>towards these incentive programs, which are largely meant to help

0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:52.240
<v Speaker 2>people invest in cleaner vehicles. And I dove into the

0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.719
<v Speaker 2>details there to see, Okay, so what are these cleaner

0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.800
<v Speaker 2>vehicles that are being invested in? And I found that

0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.719
<v Speaker 2>by and large, the majority of the spending was still

0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:06.160
<v Speaker 2>going towards gas and so, you know, the points of

0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.160
<v Speaker 2>these programs are to kind of incentivize both local businesses

0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:14.120
<v Speaker 2>and larger businesses to not just buy the cheapest option

0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.680
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to transportation, so ATVs as well as

0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.160
<v Speaker 2>cargo trucks as well as big rig trucks to kind

0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.400
<v Speaker 2>of invest in not the cheapest but the cleanest, and

0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.600
<v Speaker 2>so they would give them money to then buy cleaner options.

0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And while obviously electric vehicles are an option here, the

0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.760
<v Speaker 2>majority of that is still going towards, you know, helping

0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.919
<v Speaker 2>them buy either diesel or natural gas vehicles instead.

0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Can you explain a little bit what are the companies

0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:45.400
<v Speaker 3>that these agencies are overseeing and what are the decisions

0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.480
<v Speaker 3>that those companies are having to make here in terms

0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:50.240
<v Speaker 3>of vehicle choices.

0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:51.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I can walk you through it.

0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.160
<v Speaker 2>So the South Coast Air Quality Management District, which oversees,

0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, most of Los Angeles County and neighboring counties,

0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.919
<v Speaker 2>it basically is we'reonsible for doling out some of this

0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.839
<v Speaker 2>grant funding that is determined on the state level, So

0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.400
<v Speaker 2>they get hundreds of thousands of dollars annually that it

0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.400
<v Speaker 2>can use, and local businesses can apply, so both you know,

0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.280
<v Speaker 2>local individuals who run small businesses or big companies can

0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.560
<v Speaker 2>apply for some of this funding, and the local air

0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.440
<v Speaker 2>quality agency essentially gets to decide, you know, green light

0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:23.880
<v Speaker 2>whether they're going to give it to them or not.

0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.560
<v Speaker 2>And they have people figuring out where to give that

0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.400
<v Speaker 2>money to where they should be investing that money. And

0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:33.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, that money goes towards anything from replacing older

0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:39.960
<v Speaker 2>diesel vehicles to newer versions, or replacing them with natural

0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.320
<v Speaker 2>gas vehicles, or replacing them with electric vehicles. And that

0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.840
<v Speaker 2>can include ships as well. That could include trucks, that

0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:52.960
<v Speaker 2>can include investing in natural gas trams on here for Disneyland.

0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.360
<v Speaker 2>So it kind of runs the gamut, but at the

0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.800
<v Speaker 2>end of the day, the agency is the one responsible

0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.160
<v Speaker 2>for determining who gets that fund.

0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.240
<v Speaker 3>That's super interesting. What did you find out about in

0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:09.840
<v Speaker 3>terms of lobbying these folks on gas? How has the

0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:15.360
<v Speaker 3>gas industry or local utilities or local companies that sell

0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.040
<v Speaker 3>gas for vehicles, have they been trying to kind of

0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.800
<v Speaker 3>sway those decisions in the favor of gas.

0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, what I found within the course of this

0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.640
<v Speaker 2>reporting is that there's a lot of really questionable and

0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:33.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of circumspect crossover between the agency and the companies

0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:34.199
<v Speaker 2>that it's overseeing.

0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:35.599
<v Speaker 4>And supposed to be regulating.

0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.160
<v Speaker 2>One of the kind of interesting parts about this in

0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.440
<v Speaker 2>this reporting I found is that there were hundreds of

0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.040
<v Speaker 2>thousands of dollars of the last couple of years invested

0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.840
<v Speaker 2>in a pro gas website. Its entire purpose is to

0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.319
<v Speaker 2>kind of spread the benefits of what natural gas is.

0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.559
<v Speaker 2>So this is the South Coast Air Quality Management District,

0:08:55.559 --> 0:09:00.000
<v Speaker 2>which oversees Los Angeles, San Bernardino Counties, Orange Counties, Rivers.

0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.560
<v Speaker 2>This group is supposed to be regulating air pollution. And again,

0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.199
<v Speaker 2>this is the community that has never met federal ozone standards,

0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.319
<v Speaker 2>has for years, since two thousand and two, been investing

0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:16.079
<v Speaker 2>in this pro gas website called California Natural Gas Vehicle Partnership,

0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.280
<v Speaker 2>and it has been you know, spending money on dues

0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.640
<v Speaker 2>for this website and helping them run basically community outreach

0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and marketing. And some of those other groups that are

0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.520
<v Speaker 2>invested in this website are you know, some of the

0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.520
<v Speaker 2>oil and gas companies that are responsible for the emissions

0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.320
<v Speaker 2>that are being regulated. So I'm talking so cal Gas here,

0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.000
<v Speaker 2>and so that was a pretty eye opening thing for

0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:40.680
<v Speaker 2>me to see.

0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally. You know what this reminds me of too,

0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.240
<v Speaker 3>is of energy efficiency programs, where so cal Gas was

0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.800
<v Speaker 3>like getting money from the agency to sell its customers

0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.480
<v Speaker 3>on energy efficiency but using it to do the Yep.

0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, can you talk a.

0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.440
<v Speaker 3>Little bit about because I know the argu is always that, well,

0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.280
<v Speaker 3>natural gas does burn cleaner than diesel. That's true, Sure,

0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:08.880
<v Speaker 3>but how much are we talking here and how much

0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.400
<v Speaker 3>more benefit would electric vehicles give?

0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, so, there is a legitimate argument to

0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.439
<v Speaker 2>be made about the fact that natural gas does burn

0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.400
<v Speaker 2>cleaner than diesel. But the argument that I think most

0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.280
<v Speaker 2>people are starting to face at this point is why

0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.520
<v Speaker 2>invest in natural gas when you have the option of

0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.200
<v Speaker 2>a much cleaner investment, which is electric vehicles. And electric vehicles,

0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, obviously run off of whatever that electricity is

0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.400
<v Speaker 2>that they're plugged into, so it's a mix. It does

0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.040
<v Speaker 2>include gas, it could include some coal, But as the

0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.120
<v Speaker 2>electric grid gets cleaner, that energy is going to be cleaner,

0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:45.920
<v Speaker 2>So those vehicles are going to be running off of

0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.520
<v Speaker 2>a much cleaner mix of energy than a natural gas

0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.920
<v Speaker 2>vehicle on its own. The kind of criticism argument against

0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.280
<v Speaker 2>that is that, you know, electric vehicles are expensive, they're

0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.080
<v Speaker 2>newer technology. It takes longer for them to because it's

0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.840
<v Speaker 2>about demand, and so they're not as readily available. So,

0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, some of the members of the Air Quality Board,

0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, continue to say natural gas has to be

0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.760
<v Speaker 2>part of the solution because it's cheaper. You know, more

0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.960
<v Speaker 2>of the incentive money can be spent on buying more

0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:23.120
<v Speaker 2>natural vehicle trucks than electric vehicle trucks. But if you

0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:24.640
<v Speaker 2>look at the other side of the coin, which is

0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.640
<v Speaker 2>what the critics are saying, is these incentive programs are

0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:33.080
<v Speaker 2>essentially created to incentivize people to buy something they wouldn't

0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.480
<v Speaker 2>buy on their own, to invest in a technology that

0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:41.520
<v Speaker 2>is better than the status quo because the community is

0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.520
<v Speaker 2>so out of attainment when it comes to ozone levels.

0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.559
<v Speaker 2>And so if we're looking at an area that is

0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.880
<v Speaker 2>already failing to meet federal ozone standards, community members that

0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:57.120
<v Speaker 2>are having trouble breathing, that are having issues with asthma,

0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.520
<v Speaker 2>the question is why is there still an in something

0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 2>like natural gas technology and new or diesel technology one

0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.080
<v Speaker 2>there's a better, cleaner solution, even if that means there

0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.240
<v Speaker 2>might be fewer of them, even that that means it

0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.760
<v Speaker 2>might take more time. This idea of their needing to

0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.400
<v Speaker 2>be this kind of transition. You know, technology in between

0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>just slows down the path towards all clean vehicles in

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the future.

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 3>To be clear, when we're talking about air pollution and

0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 3>health impacts, we're talking about you know, asthma and respiratory issues,

0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:37.440
<v Speaker 3>but we're also talking about mortality. There's a pretty direct line,

0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 3>and you know about thirty years worth of peer reviewed

0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:46.560
<v Speaker 3>research now that connects premature death with exposure to particular matter,

0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 3>which is what people are being exposed to here. So

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 3>it's not just like, oh, well, you know people are

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.680
<v Speaker 3>coughing a little bit more. There's real serious impacts here.

0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 3>I think kids in utero who are exposed to particular

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.119
<v Speaker 3>that matter have quite a few respiratory and even cardiac

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 3>issues as well. So you know, we've known this for

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:12.040
<v Speaker 3>a long time. And yes, maybe ten years ago, you know,

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.880
<v Speaker 3>electric vehicles were not so readily available, But it does

0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:20.840
<v Speaker 3>seem like it's harder to make that argument now. So

0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:25.200
<v Speaker 3>tell me about the California Natural Gas Vehicle partnership because

0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 3>this jumped out at me in your story. What is

0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 3>it and what do they do and how does it

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:32.959
<v Speaker 3>play a role in all of this?

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you know, the California Natural Gas Vehicle Partnership,

0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.680
<v Speaker 2>which is the kind of progas website and partnership that

0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.920
<v Speaker 2>South Coast has been kind of investing in, was actually

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>started in two thousand and two by South Coast then

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>chaired Normal Glover. She was finishing up her tenure at

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.680
<v Speaker 2>the Air Agency and created this and then went on

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 2>to lead it as their chairman, which is kind of

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 2>an interesting, you know, career path. And then two years

0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 2>after that she started her own related consulting firm which

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 2>was basically to kind of talk about the merits of

0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.920
<v Speaker 2>gas as a clean energy alternative. And this was back

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and two. You know, since then, perspectives

0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 2>on gas have obviously changed, but the Air Quality Board

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>South Coast has still continued to invest.

0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 4>So South Coast has been a do paying member.

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.560
<v Speaker 2>It has been paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 2>this website, and in part that money has gone towards

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.160
<v Speaker 2>hiring a consulting firm which runs the website, which sends

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 2>out marketing which you know, puts together its meetings, and

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 2>this partnership has a lot of other clients. A lot

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 2>of those other clients include clean energy fuels and sokel

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Gas and the utility, PG and E. And you know,

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.680
<v Speaker 2>these companies have obviously a vested interest in figuring out

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 2>what the future of gas is in California, and so

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 2>they are also due paying partners. There's you know, the

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 2>connections here and the overlap are just rather striking. And

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 2>what's kind of interesting here is that as I was

0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 2>doing this reporting in February, South Coast just kind of

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 2>out of the blue moved to distance itself from the partnership.

0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.800
<v Speaker 2>The board voted to turn the partnership into a nonprofit

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 2>and push it out of being anything within its purview,

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 2>transfer all of the remaining money over to this kind

0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 2>of new nonprofit model. And I asked them, I said,

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 2>you know what prompted this, and essentially I was just

0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.440
<v Speaker 2>told that it was to relieve the agency and its

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.960
<v Speaker 2>staff of the financial and administrative responsibilities related to the partnership.

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 2>But South Coast is still going to remain a do

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.160
<v Speaker 2>paying member, so it'll still be connected.

0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.200
<v Speaker 3>Wow. I mean that just seems like such a clear

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.280
<v Speaker 3>conflict of interest there.

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, I had this pointed out to me by

0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 2>a couple people, and I definitely raised my eyebrows looking

0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>at it. I think that the fact that the agency

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 2>has decided to itself from the website is indicative that

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>they probably have had some people raise concerns about it too.

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.520
<v Speaker 2>But there are other things that I saw looking at

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 2>the kind of looking at the budget, looking at what

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 2>the air Board has been investing in over the last

0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, decade.

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.479
<v Speaker 4>Has been Those are things that are still continuing.

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 2>What's interesting is that the air Board also has directly

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>been paying the same consulting group to let South Coast

0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 2>be co sponsor and sponsor of different symposiums. So, you know,

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>some of the money that South Coast has paid to

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 2>this consulting firm includes eighty thousand dollars to co sponsor

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty and twenty twenty one Renewable Gas three

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 2>sixty symposium and host a webinar in conjunction with it.

0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 3>Even just to be that sort of publicly supportive of

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.600
<v Speaker 3>renewable gas is an interesting choice, I would.

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 4>Say, yeah.

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I asked them, I said, have you know,

0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 2>for example, with the website, you know, do you invest

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 2>in an electric vehicle website of similar you know origin,

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 2>doing similar messaging And the answer was no. So, you know,

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.959
<v Speaker 2>these have just been interesting choices made. Looking at this

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.359
<v Speaker 2>incentive money being used towards all these different programs, it

0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.680
<v Speaker 2>gets to really the heart of the debate that I

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 2>think the whole country is facing. But you know, still

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>California is facing two, which is is it time to

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:23.359
<v Speaker 2>step away from gas?

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.120
<v Speaker 3>If it's a bridge, at what point do we get

0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 3>off that bridge?

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:28.960
<v Speaker 4>Exactly?

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 2>When are we ready to jump off that bridge? But

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.840
<v Speaker 2>looking at these numbers, we're not. You know, California is

0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.879
<v Speaker 2>not very close one of the programs that receives a

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.359
<v Speaker 2>lot of this money. One of the staffers mentioned in

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 2>a board meeting earlier this year that just seventeen percent

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 2>of the total one hundred and forty one million dollars

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>in grants that the board approved just for this year

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 2>for twenty twenty two, only seventeen percent are going towards

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.440
<v Speaker 2>purchasing true zero technologies.

0:17:55.880 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 3>Wow. And I know that the argument continues to be, oh,

0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 3>all electric isn't available yet. Did you find that to

0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.159
<v Speaker 3>be true or no?

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:07.880
<v Speaker 4>Not at all?

0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's a that's an argument that you hear

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.359
<v Speaker 2>over and over again, and I've always had a really

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:18.159
<v Speaker 2>hard time finding hard data yeah to back that. You know,

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories about how, yes,

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.280
<v Speaker 2>we've put in orders and it's going to take seven

0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.200
<v Speaker 2>months for it to come, or you know, I've seen

0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 2>the breakdown that, yes, electric trucks are obviously more expensive

0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:34.040
<v Speaker 2>than natural gas, but you know, market is driven by demand,

0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 2>so you know, if there's a lot of investment in

0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 2>truck technology and electric vehicle technology, I imagine that there'd

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:44.200
<v Speaker 2>be more readily available.

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's kind of you.

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 3>Know, the chicken and egg kind of thing.

0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Build it, they will come, which will come first? And

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.679
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of where the debate, the crooks of the

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.439
<v Speaker 2>debate always lies as, oh, but this technology is readily

0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 2>available now. Well, you know, the critics argue, you know,

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.560
<v Speaker 2>you might only be able to switch you know, six

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.840
<v Speaker 2>trucks versus fifty trucks to electric vehicles because they are

0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 2>more expensive. But that's a longer term investment because you

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.719
<v Speaker 2>won't have to then switch those you know, natural gas

0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.200
<v Speaker 2>trucks to EV's five years down the line.

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Right, right, Yeah. Is there anything that we didn't talk

0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.399
<v Speaker 3>about that you want to make sure to kind of

0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:25.160
<v Speaker 3>draw people's attention to in this story?

0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, I will just say that it's really hard

0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.040
<v Speaker 2>to kind of show the picture of the pollution in California,

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.919
<v Speaker 2>because it's a complicated topic and I don't think people

0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.719
<v Speaker 2>realize that California, known for all of its great nature,

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.959
<v Speaker 2>is still really really struggling with this issue, and it

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>has been really politically divisive. You know, some of these

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:46.720
<v Speaker 2>these are issues that have been coming up in the

0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.800
<v Speaker 2>local mirror race and you know, there have been a

0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 2>lot of criticism from local groups about how this airboard

0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 2>has been handling this over the years and why they

0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 2>have not shifted their focus towards electric.

0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 4>Vehicles, and there's been some change.

0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 2>There were groups that targeted the La City Council member

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 2>to Busquno for voting against some of these regulations on refineries.

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, he was the chairman of the South Coast

0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of criticism against him, and he actually

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.720
<v Speaker 2>just recently stepped down to run for mayor of Los Angeles.

0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:14.800
<v Speaker 4>He dropped recently.

0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.920
<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's a pipeline of these individuals making

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:22.359
<v Speaker 2>these decisions going on to bigger offices in California, but

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.680
<v Speaker 2>still holding the messaging that natural gas and needs to

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:25.640
<v Speaker 2>be part of the transition.

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.160
<v Speaker 3>That's it for this week. Thanks for listening and we'll

0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:35.080
<v Speaker 3>see you next time.