WEBVTT - TechSupport: What Happens When AI Undresses You? 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.119 Hey, Welcome to Tech Stuff. OZ is out this week, 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.479 so instead of a weekend tech episode, I wanted to 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.280 bring in an expert to talk about the absolute hellscape 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:28.680 unfolding on Elon Musk's social platform X. Heads up, We're 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:30.760 going to be covering a sensitive topic, so if there 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.680 are children with you, you might want to listen to 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.880 this at another time. Since late December, Elon Musk's AI 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.920 model Grock, which is built into X, has been generating 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.120 non consensual sexual imagery when prompted. Now you may be thinking, 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.080 I've heard of this happening before, and you'd be right. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.280 Congress even passed a law to curb the creation and 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.880 distribution of sexually explicit deep fakes, So why is it 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.400 still happening? Four or four Media Samantha Cole has been 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.840 following the adult industry online culture of sex for years. 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.959 She recently wrote an article titled Grock's AI sexual abuse 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.560 didn't come out of nowhere, and while it's disturbing, we 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.960 are thrilled to have her here on the podcast. So welcome, Sam. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.320 Thank you so much for joining us. Thrilled to be 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.120 here to disturb. It is the thrilled disturbance that we 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.600 are living in sam Can you talk a little bit 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.240 about the early days of the Grock scandal, Like how 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:24.960 did this start? 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.120 Grok has been doing this for a while, like you said, 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.440 like the prompts that are like make her blank, make 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:37.040 her wear a skinny bikini, make her wear see through shirt, 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.520 make her bend over and do such and such has 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.720 been a thing for a while, and I think the 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.080 escalation in the last couple of weeks has been I mean, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.520 it went very viral and became very popular with a 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.880 lot more users on the platform, and it's started generating 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.200 what other outlets have reported is actual child sexual abuse 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.840 material AI generated, which is, you know, non consensual intimate imagery, 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.400 And now they're reports of it creating images of children 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.280 using AI, So not real kids that we know of, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.880 but still illegal in a lot of places and obviously 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.720 still extremely harmful content to be on one of the 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.480 biggest and most mainstream platforms that we have right now. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.640 So how does this compare to other, like commercially available 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.600 AI models, How is it different? 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:31.440 So Grock was made by Elon Musk as this alternative 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.920 to open AIS chat, GBT or even Claude or some 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:40.000 of the other big popular tech giant chatbots that also 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:44.360 create images, And he made it because he wanted a 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:51.639 quote unquote based, un restricted air quotes, free speech chatbot 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.560 that would not have a bunch of guardrails that these 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.079 others have. And these others have guardrails such as they 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:02.040 won't generate sexual igery in many of these cases, they 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:07.960 definitely won't generate images of children in sexual scenarios. So 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.160 it wasn't his explicit intention when he first made this chatbot, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.639 or at least what he said what we know of publicly, 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.000 to create a se sam generator, a child sexual abusymery generator. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.200 But he wanted something that was going to be like 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:27.200 quote unquote, non woke, no censorship. You know, it had 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.840 the cool little like rodent that would say a curse 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.760 word and like the anime wife Fu Girl, who would 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.160 you know, sex with you while you're in your test tesla, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.360 stuff like that. So I think that's that's what sets 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.240 it apart in a lot of ways. And it's also 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.960 it's being run, like you said, on a platform natively 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:49.120 where people are also just posting normal stuff, posting news articles, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.400 posting like their thoughts for the day, posting a joke, 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.440 a meme, and then alongside that you have images of 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.440 women being undressed and you know, neutified is what a 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.640 lot of these apps that do it professionally call it 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.760 notification or undressing alongside just everyday life. 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:11.320 So unfortunately, creating explicit, non consensual imagery of women and 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:16.680 girls is not something new. Can you give our listeners 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.960 a sort of brief rundown of when this started and 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:22.880 when we started to see this online? 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.320 Yeah, So the thing that pretty much struck me at 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.760 first when I first saw this happening with Rock and 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.800 everyone talking about sexual abuse imagery on x formerly known 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.880 as Twitter, is that this has been happening on Twitter 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.039 when it used to be called Twitter for a very 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.000 long time. It's something that lots of people who are 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.839 in the space of preventing sexual abuse imagery harms have 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:49.679 been talking about for a long time is that Twitter 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.960 was and still is full of abusive imagery of women, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.200 real stuff like photos and videos that women don't want 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.920 on the Internet. We used to call it revenge more 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:05.560 it's non essential content that should not be spread like this, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.440 especially on a very mainstream platform. So that's been an 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.520 issue for years and years and years. I would say 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.440 it's kind of something baked into Twitter at this point 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.680 where they didn't solve that problem before elam Must showed up, 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.280 and they're definitely not solving it now after he showed 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.239 up and fired thousands of moderators. So that's the context 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.479 that we're in as far as the real stuff, like 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.960 the actual recorded images and videos of women who don't 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.240 want their images out there. And then to add to this, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.280 we have generative AI and apps that we've put it 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.200 on a bunch of four or four and are being 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.720 advertised in lots of spaces on you know, TikTok and 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.880 Instagram and are very accessible to lots of people, including 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.040 teenagers that say, would you like to see that girl 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.760 from the gym nude? Do you want to make a 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.279 chat out of her where she can never say no 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:03.400 to you? But that over to x where people are 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.240 just like I said, having normal conversations or not anymore. 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.200 Nobody has a normal conversational next anymore and every thing. 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.760 But you know, people were using it like they would 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.320 any other social platform. And then at the same time 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:17.240 you have built into it a non ponsential imagery generator, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.640 this factory that is an escalation of what we're already 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.040 seeing with the standalone apps that you can download and 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.360 then swap someone's face into someone else's body, put them 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.160 in any situation you want. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.200 Can you talk a little bit about gam or Gate 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.719 and just like the rise of deep fakes in seventeen eighteen, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.800 you know, where people were not actually using generative ad, 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:39.760 but they were using photoshop. Yeah. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.240 I mean, that's another thing that this entire situation is 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.600 reminded me of is the way that Gamergate, which was 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.720 a harassment campaign primarily focused on women in gaming and 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:52.440 then kind of spread out to just be women on 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:58.120 the Internet in general. Very misogynistic harassment campaign. It originated 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.039 on places like four tan chan and on these forums 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:06.560 that were known to be toxic and full of in cells, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:12.440 but it eventually migrated and got the big popularity that 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.480 it eventually got and had the big impact on people's 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:19.800 actual lives because all of that content landed on Twitter, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.920 and that's where you see people actually, you know, reporting 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.000 on it in a serious way, you know, people meaning 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.800 like the media taking it seriously. Because now it's on 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.440 this mainstream platform, it's getting so much more exposure from 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.160 lots of people. It's radicalizing some people being this harassment 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.720 campaign that it is a lot of it relied on 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:45.360 shame and sexual shame, so that definitely felt like a 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.480 parallel to me. It's like we had these sort of 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:52.000 like almost but not quite underground communities for lack of 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:57.040 a better word, creating content, creating harassment campaigns away from 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.400 the mainstream that eventually make their way to a place 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.960 like Twitter or literally Twitter and in this case x 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.000 where it has this explosive effect and it has this 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.680 farther reach on people's lives because you know, you're searching 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.720 sample on Google, it might be my Twitter that comes up, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.000 and then you click on my Twitter, it might be 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.880 like tons of replies from people talking about my body 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.520 and harassing me in that way. And this is something 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.560 that like lots of women have to do with on 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.160 the Internet today. So that's just kind of a hypothetical example, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.880 but it was actually happening to lots of women during 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.880 the time that we're talking about Steen twenty seventeen, twenty teen. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.320 It feels very like a pattern, like a formula at 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:37.120 this point. 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.200 So you talk about Twitter sort of being the for 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.440 lack of a better word, the dumping ground for this 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.560 kind of content and you write about how the National 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.480 Center for Missing and Exploited Children has consistently ranked Twitter, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.480 and you know, subsequently x as quote one of the 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.600 leading hosts of child sexual abuse material every year for 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.240 the last seven years. What do you think it is 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:04.720 about Twitter an x as a platform that has allowed 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.600 for this type of content to proliferate for so long 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:09.760 before Elon bought it. 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.440 I would have said moderation and the unwillingness and also 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:18.600 like the hesitancy to overmoderate or the fear of being 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.360 seen as like stamping out free speech and letting people 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.520 just harass other people on your platform endlessly. Twitter had 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.320 a Nazi problem before Elon took it over, and now 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.240 we have Elon, who is a white supremacist sympathizer at best, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:38.080 owning the platform that had a Nazi problem and is 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:43.160 seemingly not at all interested in creating a healthy and 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:48.040 productive social media platform. It's mostly just an engagement and 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.760 rage bait and outrage bait farm, and part of that 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:55.840 is the non consensual stuff. So you had an existing problem, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.720 it's just ten times worse now because Elon is you know, 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.400 in fucking mode and doesn't care what happens to the 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.640 people that are using his platform other than using it 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.240 as a way to talk directly to people who are 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.800 in power at this point. So I would say that's 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.160 what makes it uniquely fraught, and also just the influence 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.800 that it has on everyday life. I mean, tweets were 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:22.120 on CNN and still are. It's very much a place 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.439 where people thought was like the town Square. Hate that phrase, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.400 but that's kind of about how people saw on Twitter. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.400 Is you know, things were getting hashed out on Twitter 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.400 that were representative of real life. Was the attitude towards 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.440 Twitter for a really long time. That's part of why 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.719 Ellan bought it. He wanted that sort of influence. He 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.559 thought that he could make it the everything app where 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.079 everything that you wanted to do in life happened on 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.679 x So I think that effect where it's like it 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.160 is somewhere where everyone is or used to be. Now 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.480 a lot of people are not, but the fact that 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.400 it was this place where everyone was gathering, everyone's congreting. 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.000 You get jobs off of being on Twitter, especially as 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.199 writer or creative. You might get discovered off of Twitter, and. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.240 So many of people got hired off of Twitter. Yeah. 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:06.480 And comedy writers. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.960 Comedy writers, yeah, it's like where you like go to 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.319 stand out and end up working at you know, like 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:13.439 Buzzfew News or something. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:14.400 It was huge for that. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.520 So yeah, I know that I felt like I had 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.800 to have a Twitter presence because I was a journalist 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:20.600 in that era. 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:22.199 Do you feel that way anymore? 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.600 No, not at all. I mean I am on Twitter. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.600 I'm on Twitter now because I'm reporting on Twitter, but 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.120 I'm not using it in the way that I did 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.120 then at all. Thank God I don't have to be. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:34.760 I'm not required to be. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.760 But yeah, so you mentioned that the child sexual abuse 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.800 material is being created, but we don't currently think the 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.840 children depicted are real. You know, what would you say 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.160 to someone who says that this is a victimless crime. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:54.400 So we know from just speaking about the child sexual 0:11:54.440 --> 0:12:00.280 abuse material stuff. We know from experts who work in 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.200 fields where they're trying to find victims, who are trying 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.640 to find perpetrators of sexual abuse material, that generated AI 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.960 has made all of their jobs so much harder, and 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.680 their job was already so incredibly hard aside from being 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.360 often trained on real children, and in some cases we've 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.200 found trained on sexual abuse material to make the generative 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.800 AI stuff. So there is actually a victim behind this stuff. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.959 It's used to groom children in cases where a perpetrator 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:36.040 might send an AI generated image to a child and say, look, 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.320 this kid did this. Can you do this? And it's 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.319 like you don't even need to have an existing victim 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.720 to create more victims. It's just something you can generate 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.880 up with AI. Now. It also just it makes it 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.360 harder to find the real stuff and the real victims 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.440 who are being abused in real life because it looks 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.839 real and it's hard to tell the difference. So investigators 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.599 are spending timelyzing AI to find out whether or not 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.840 it's real and whether it's fake in the way of 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:09.480 finding actual kids, it's wasting their time. So it's just 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:15.040 it's polluting their occupation in a way that is unfathomable 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.160 considering what they have to contend with every day. Already. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.880 Has X tried to address this issue at all. 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:31.319 I mean, I think there have been gestures at condoning 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:39.079 or condemning, sorry for Randslip, at making this problem go away, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:40.920 But I think anything that they try to do at 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.560 this point, it's short of turning off Grock entirely and 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.839 making the damage generation not something that people can access 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:52.160 anymore is not enough. They're now being investigated by the 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:57.000 Attorney General. Rab Banta is just announced that he's gonna 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.960 investigate groc and X. I mean, I think it's just 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.920 like the cat is out of the bag for them. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.000 This is a problem that they are going to end 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.400 up having dancer for I think, I hope. 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:10.080 I don't know. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.640 I mean, who knows, you know, it's like these elon's 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.640 slippery like that, so who knows if we'll get away 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.120 with it. But it's definitely caught the eye of investigators. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:19.720 It's caught the eye of a lot of these groups 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.280 that are working to prevent harms like this online. I 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.320 think it's definitely it's crossed a line for a lot 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:30.080 of people who maybe saw X as toxic and not 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:31.600 a place they want to be, and now it's like, oh, 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.920 this is actively creating really really bad material at scale, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.760 and that's a difference. That's a line to be crossed 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:52.080 for them. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.280 After the break is AI generated non consensual imagery the 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:17.160 new normal stay with us. You know, it's obvious that 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:21.200 not everyone on X is generating and posting these explicit images. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.080 Some people just use X the way that they use Twitter, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.800 but I'm curious what effect you think these images have 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.640 on the broader X community. 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.240 Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good question and 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.880 something that we should actually be thinking about more and 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:38.880 the effect that it has on people who are using 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:40.960 X who are probably used to this anyway, and then 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.760 also people who are not using it, And it definitely 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.640 normalizes normalizes it in a big way. I'm sure it 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.680 emboldens the people who are making apps that are for 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.120 this purpose, that are monetizing deep fakes and non essential 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.360 pornography at scale. I'm sure that they see this as like, Okay, 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:03.040 hell yeah, he's not facing any repercussions, so we're gonna 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:07.239 go full tilt at it, right, And I think that's 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.640 a worst case scenario, and I'm sure it's happening. But 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.720 then it's also like it just it normalizes this content, 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.360 which at the heart of it is about non content. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.160 It's about using women's bodies in ways that they don't want, 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:29.000 it's about ignoring body of the autonomy. It normalizes all 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.760 of that to other people on the platform who might 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:34.960 be like, oh, well, if that guy's doing it, you. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.560 Know, maybe I should do it at the gym. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:38.280 Yeah, maybe I should take a picture of the girl 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.680 at the gym and try to see what ROC can 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:40.960 do with. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.880 It, which is just. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.200 Like, it's a shocking I think that's probably the most 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.600 shocking thing about it is that it's just it's no 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.560 longer like I'm using this app that pretends to be 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.040 something else but is secretly a porn app that makes 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.880 face wop images of girls in my class. It's we're 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.240 doing this in the open on Twitter, on x on 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.920 like the biggest, one of the biggest social media platforms 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.439 out there, and nothing bad is happening to me for it, 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.959 and the platform says it's fine. I think, especially when 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:14.800 there's no one else in your life saying it's not fine, 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.760 you know, it's it's just kind of creating the snowball 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.440 effect of people who are interested in it want to 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:21.760 try it. 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.680 So what are the numbers in terms of like proliferation 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.080 of this, Like what what are we looking at in 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.679 terms of how much of this is online? 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.520 Anyone can search on x right now you're at rock 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.040 and then like make her, you know, do this and 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.919 that or like some version of the prompt that they're doing, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.760 and it's just multiple times a minute, every minute. People 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.520 are making a new one of those. I think conservatively 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.880 it's in the like hundreds of thousands of images all 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.679 together in the last week or so. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:52.760 So crazy, I. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.640 Mean, just based on the every time I check on it, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.280 and it's just like a running You can't keep up 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.480 with the feed of people trying to make her do 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.720 this and that, make her where clear date bikini or 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:03.320 whatever it is. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.160 This is obviously a huge problem or other countries responding 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.240 differently than the United States. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:15.400 Yeah, so I think the UK was talking about banning 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.840 x entirely in the country. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.280 On account of this deep fake pornography and grog. Yeah. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.240 I think offcom was getting involved in saying that it 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.600 could happen if they don't figure it out and turn 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.760 it off and somehow make it get better, Which is 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.639 interesting because they passed the Online Safety Act a while back, 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.240 and it's requiring a lot more censorship and a lot 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.919 more it's the age vocation stuff that we're seeing here 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.680 in the States where they're requiring a lot of sites 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.159 and social media sites to verify ages before you can 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.520 use them because they want to kind of push adult 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.480 content in that direction. And now they're kind of teasing 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.399 the idea of banning X over something that is so 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.159 blatantly criminal and so so harmful. It's like, you know, 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.679 where's the line for you guys? Where's when are we 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.280 gonna hit the button? But I don't know, I think 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.199 they I'm sure it's more complicated than that. 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.720 And is there anything that like the general public can. 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.480 Do stay off acts? If you don't want to see 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.840 some bad stuff? I would say that's that's a big one. 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.480 Maybe call your reps if this is an issue you 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.919 care about. It's definitely illegal in a lot of states 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.400 to create and to at least to generate and spread 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:36.520 and disseminate AI child sexual abas material, So you know, 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:37.920 what are those states going to do about it? Is 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:38.679 kind of my question. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.160 How does the Take It Down Act play into this? 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:42.440 If at all? 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:48.000 The Takedown Act affords victims more recourse. So if you're 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.359 in a deep fake, and if you're in a sexually 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.159 explicit deep fake and you want that taken down, you 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.480 can message the websites and say I need this removed. 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:03.840 This is non extent material, and those websites need to 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.720 comply with those sorts of requests. And that's a federal law. 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.320 So if someone's making images of you that you don't 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.120 want to happen on X. Under that law, X should 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.639 not be hosting them. I mean, it's it should require 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:21.000 platforms to take some action when someone reaches out and says, hey, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:23.200 this is bad stuff, I don't want it on here. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.520 That's different than like actually putting the onus on the 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:28.360 platforms themselves. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:34.119 Right, So, the Pentagon actually announced that GROC will be 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.159 used in their network. This is kind of related to 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.000 what we've been talking about, But like, what will it 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.000 actually take for the US government to regulate X and GROC? 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.120 Will the US government regulate X and GROCK? 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.040 I mean that when I saw that, I was like, 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:57.160 this is so perfect for the way that things are now. Yeah, 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.000 I don't know what it'll take anymore, especially since there 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.000 all in bed together. I really don't know. It feels 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:08.960 like we're in this extremely weird gray zone as far 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:13.080 as what is and isn't law, and like what is 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:13.840 I mean, what is law? 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:14.440 Is what is law? 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.720 But like, is there going to be any kind of 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.000 any kind of action taken to abide by the law 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.639 when it comes to these sites? And especially now that 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.280 the Pentagon is like, hey, we love Rock and we're 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.360 going to use it just unreal to announce that right 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.520 in the middle of this huge scandal. 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.320 Is there anything about this particular scandal that we didn't 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.080 cover that you are concerned about. 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:40.200 It's something that's kind of in the back of my mind, 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.120 but I'm not even sure how to articulate. Is how 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.639 striking it is that there is such a demand for this, 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.159 that it is so many people who really want to 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.320 make this kind of content kind of tells me that 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.960 it's already normalized and it's already happening, and this is 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.280 just the next step up from that. So you know, 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.000 behind all these prompts, it's a lot of them are 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.840 probably bots, a lot of them are probably people. And 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.080 we know for a fact that this sort of thing 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.560 and making images of people in intimate situations when they 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:10.000 do not want that is a very popular industry. And 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.919 I think that's something that we need to take some 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:18.520 action on, do some educating on, intervene earlier in especially 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:20.879 young men's lives, when they start going down these routes. 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:23.400 I think it's just and it's going to get worse 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:25.240 and worse is it gets more and more industrialized and 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.440 monetized and productized in the way that we've seen with ROC. 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.600 Have you talked to victims of this content and like, 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.720 if so, what have you heard from them? Yeah? I have. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:44.960 It's it's always hard to really grasp what it feels 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.879 like to be in a deep fake, and especially a 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.480 sexual deep fake, until it happens to you. So I 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.159