Speaker 1: Just a heads up. This episode mentions violence against women
Speaker 1: and death. There Are No Girls on the Internet as
Speaker 1: a production of My Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm
Speaker 1: Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on
Speaker 1: the Internet. When I was twenty one, a good friend
Speaker 1: of mine went missing. I'm not sure it's something I
Speaker 1: ever completely got over, and I still kind of think
Speaker 1: of my adult life as divided between before her disappearance
Speaker 1: and after her disappearance. That's how much the experience changed me.
Speaker 1: Watching my friend's story be picked apart on Nancy Grace's
Speaker 1: true crime television show was one of the most surreal
Speaker 1: experiences of my life. I just remember how foreign the
Speaker 1: person that she was describing seemed to me. I didn't
Speaker 1: recognize my cool, funny friend at all. By the time
Speaker 1: I found her body, I had stopped watching programming about
Speaker 1: her case altogether. I just couldn't keep listening to people
Speaker 1: trying to tell her story without her in it. This week,
Speaker 1: authorities found the remains of Gabby Potito, the twenty two
Speaker 1: year old woman who was documenting her travels to national
Speaker 1: parks with her fiance in a van. Now this story
Speaker 1: is heartbreaking, and it also feels really familiar to me.
Speaker 1: Gabby's tragic story ignited social media. Now, many people were
Speaker 1: just legitimately trying to get the word out about Gabby's disappearance,
Speaker 1: but I was also really troubled by the kind of
Speaker 1: content that other folks on social media were making that
Speaker 1: included everything from baseless conspiracy theories two psychics claiming to
Speaker 1: have information about her whereabouts. Now, these weren't just random
Speaker 1: one off videos that maybe got a handful of views
Speaker 1: here or there. They were going viral on platforms like
Speaker 1: Twitter and TikTok, and I just really didn't like it.
Speaker 1: It felt like some people were gleefully picking apart this
Speaker 1: tragedy with no regard for whether or not it was
Speaker 1: actually helpful, ethical, or respectful. And I think that's because
Speaker 1: when it comes to the genre that we know as
Speaker 1: true crime, in the kind of online conversation that it sparks,
Speaker 1: it can be easy to forget that they're actual people
Speaker 1: and actual tragedies. So what happens when the darkest moments
Speaker 1: of a stranger's life are turned into content. Jessica Dean,
Speaker 1: also known as Blood Beth and Beyond, has the making
Speaker 1: videos on TikTok about some of the less ethical aspects
Speaker 1: of the true crime community. For months. You might remember
Speaker 1: her from our episode debunking viral myths around sex trafficking.
Speaker 1: Fed up with the ways that content creators talk about
Speaker 1: tragedy like it's a puzzle or just an interesting story,
Speaker 1: she's been using her platform to urge for more careful, respectful,
Speaker 1: and thoughtful conversations around crime. I want to say right
Speaker 1: up front that this is a tough conversation and I
Speaker 1: do not have all the answers, but I spoke to
Speaker 1: Jessica about what happens when true crime sparks of frenzy
Speaker 1: of internet sleuths and viral conspiracy theories, and now we
Speaker 1: can all work to create ethical conversations about crime that
Speaker 1: can lead to actual systemic change. So my name is
Speaker 1: Jessica Dean. I go by blood Beats and on primarily
Speaker 1: on TikTok, which was my largest platform, and I've actually
Speaker 1: been on the podcast before. I'm excited to be back.
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that you invited me back, and I
Speaker 1: guess today we're talking about true crime. Yes, we're so
Speaker 1: glad to have you back as a friend of the show,
Speaker 1: because I honestly can't think of a better person to
Speaker 1: help me unpack all of these feelings I've been having
Speaker 1: about true crime content. You know, I'm not really a
Speaker 1: big consumer of true crime content myself, and I know
Speaker 1: that you've been really vocal about some of the problems
Speaker 1: with the genre on TikTok, and I guess I just
Speaker 1: feel like it exploits a very real anxiety that women have,
Speaker 1: that tragedy is lurking around every corner. And I always
Speaker 1: really take issue with content that exploits and plays on
Speaker 1: our anxieties when it can also spark real world behavior
Speaker 1: like amplifying conspiracy theories or mobilizing internet sleuth who try
Speaker 1: to solve crimes without necessarily stopping to ask if it's
Speaker 1: actually a useful precedent. So, I guess my first question is,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on all this? What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on true crime? And why do you make videos
Speaker 1: trying to amplify the ways that true can be really unethical? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I think it's important, like right off the bat,
Speaker 1: to save myself, um, a little bit of headache later, um,
Speaker 1: that I want to be clear that not all true
Speaker 1: crime content is the same, Especially on TikTok. There are
Speaker 1: some creators of true crime content that I find make
Speaker 1: uh at least what I would consider more palatable and
Speaker 1: what I think is more genuine content. Um. But a
Speaker 1: lot of my videos I had made in the past
Speaker 1: were kind of hyper fixating and really shining a light
Speaker 1: on some of the rougher stuff that you can definitely
Speaker 1: find out there. Uh, And so like, with that out
Speaker 1: of the way, I think it's uh, probably important we
Speaker 1: talk about some of the more problematic popular stuff that
Speaker 1: definitely goes viral. I find things ranging from true crime
Speaker 1: accounts that are dedicated to like frosting cookies, Like I
Speaker 1: think they're a professional baker and they'll be frosting cookies
Speaker 1: while they talk about some poor woman that was brutally
Speaker 1: murdered by her boyfriend, and they kind of make it
Speaker 1: I don't want to say lighthearted, but it definitely has
Speaker 1: a very lighthearted atmosphere about it, like, oh, look at
Speaker 1: me decorating this cute little cookie of a puppy, and
Speaker 1: it feels to really take away from the seriousness of
Speaker 1: the situation. I've also found accounts that are dedicated to,
Speaker 1: uh somebody, you can find it on Amazon. Somebody published
Speaker 1: like a coloring book all dedicated to different types of
Speaker 1: serial killers, and I think they tried to advertise it
Speaker 1: as some sort of like educational material because I think
Speaker 1: it gives like a little blurb of each serial killer
Speaker 1: on every page, but it's also still a coloring book,
Speaker 1: so it feels a little morbid. And oftentimes these people
Speaker 1: who are making these videos, they'll have themselves talking over
Speaker 1: these videos, and the attitude about it just seems very off.
Speaker 1: They've got this very lighthearted, almost fun ha ha, crazy
Speaker 1: how this happened ten years ago, kind of attitude about it,
Speaker 1: and it's always been driving me really crazy because not
Speaker 1: to get into too many specifics about it, but as
Speaker 1: somebody who is actually pretty close to a very high
Speaker 1: profile case, if I saw somebody making content about that
Speaker 1: specific high profile case, I could not be disgusted. So
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that people who had an even closer
Speaker 1: connection to these high profile cases they're covering might come
Speaker 1: across this content and how they might react or how
Speaker 1: that might make them feel. And it's it's truly unfortunate
Speaker 1: because I often hear kind of as a reaction to
Speaker 1: that is like, oh, they wouldn't see it, Um, well,
Speaker 1: I saw I've seen several videos related to the case
Speaker 1: that I have a connection to, and they don't make
Speaker 1: me feel great. And I think it's really important that
Speaker 1: we remember that, especially if a lot of true crime
Speaker 1: content creators will come at with an attitude of respecting
Speaker 1: the victims and trying to bring awareness to situations, especially
Speaker 1: if they're potentially ongoing. But that's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: that's a hard pill to swallow when you also look
Speaker 1: at their content and you're like, if I were the
Speaker 1: person affected by the situation, I would not feel comfortable
Speaker 1: with how you're covering your the attitude you have, or
Speaker 1: just the atmosphere of the content in general. So that
Speaker 1: was the big driving factor for me to highlight some
Speaker 1: of the more nefarious parts of the true crime community.
Speaker 1: And I always want to make sure that people understand that,
Speaker 1: like I said, not all true kind all, not all
Speaker 1: true crime content is the same, and it's really important
Speaker 1: that we help uplift the content that is more ethical
Speaker 1: and is speaking more politely about it. But one of
Speaker 1: the biggest factors in that is highlighting though, but the
Speaker 1: worst parts and the kind of instances we want to
Speaker 1: be avoiding absolutely, you know, And I'm so glad that
Speaker 1: you brought that up. You know, I think that it's
Speaker 1: so important for people to remember that you're talking about
Speaker 1: actual people and like their trauma and the and like
Speaker 1: their community members who are left behind to like pick
Speaker 1: up the pieces. And you know, I think I think
Speaker 1: there was like a really frankly tasteless shirt or something
Speaker 1: about Jeffrey Dahmer, and I think it was your TikTok
Speaker 1: where it was like that wasn't that long ago, you know,
Speaker 1: his the family members of his victims are very much
Speaker 1: still alive, and like you think they don't have social media.
Speaker 1: You think that it's so far fetched that they would see,
Speaker 1: you know, tasteless crass shirts that people are selling with
Speaker 1: like cute see little slogans on them. I think it
Speaker 1: can be. I think when I see true crime content
Speaker 1: that clearly does not take into effect the account that
Speaker 1: you're talking about real people who, some of whom can
Speaker 1: you know as yourselves, as you just said, like, we'll
Speaker 1: see the way that you're talking about their loved ones
Speaker 1: who were no longer here and like the worst most
Speaker 1: dark parts of their experiences and just sort of being
Speaker 1: so callous about that really doesn't sit well with me. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that was kind of my tipping point and uh not
Speaker 1: to like get too much of my own personal life.
Speaker 1: But the reason that the Jeffrey Dahmer shirt really stuck
Speaker 1: out to me is because I actually currently live in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee and the Jeffrey Dahmer was from Milwaukee. So I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was the proximity to the crime
Speaker 1: that kind of made me feel this way, but seeing
Speaker 1: shirts that made a very lewd, sexual and very humorous
Speaker 1: jokes about it, I was like, why, why one are
Speaker 1: you comfortable selling this? Like the excuse of oh, it's
Speaker 1: just dark humor learned to take a joke can only
Speaker 1: carry you so far, and you can sell that shirt.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stop you, Um, but I am going
Speaker 1: to remind you that these people were human things and
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Dahmer predominantly targeted gay black men and he
Speaker 1: killed and sexually violently sexually assaulted children. UM. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: remind you of that, and you kind of have to
Speaker 1: live with how that makes you feel, because that's just reality.
Speaker 1: And I think that helps snap a lot of people
Speaker 1: back into like, oh, this might not have been great,
Speaker 1: but there are people who are inevitably going to just
Speaker 1: use that it's dark humor, get over at excuse regardless,
Speaker 1: and we just kind of have to live with that.
Speaker 1: But I mean, if reminding people helps, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be upset by it. Yeah, I mean, how would
Speaker 1: you if you were wearing happy to be wearing one
Speaker 1: of those like awful tasteless shirts making like making a
Speaker 1: joke about Jeffrey Dahmer's crimes. Imagine like bumping into one
Speaker 1: like a family member of one of the victims, like
Speaker 1: you better be Like, but would I wonder if people
Speaker 1: would be how they would feel about explaining and it's
Speaker 1: just a joke because is dark humor to their face
Speaker 1: that they actually came in contact with these folks. I
Speaker 1: think that like, perhaps it can feel like you're so
Speaker 1: removed from these people, like they don't even necessarily seem
Speaker 1: like real people whose feelings or whose perspectives you even
Speaker 1: need to take into account. It really just rubs me
Speaker 1: the wrong way. Yeah, there was actually a I believe
Speaker 1: it was a bar. I don't want to say it
Speaker 1: was a restaurant. I think it was just a bar
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee that um, it's a really historical building, it's
Speaker 1: very iconic, and they actually gotten a lot of controversy.
Speaker 1: A few years ago, UH they were running like a
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer cannibal themed tour in the city of Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: and somebody had mapped out that they were only maybe
Speaker 1: like three or four miles away from Uh Dahmer's old apartment.
Speaker 1: It's since been demolished, but they were like a stone's
Speaker 1: throw away from it, and it took so much public
Speaker 1: pressure to be like, the family members are still in
Speaker 1: this city. They probably drive past your bar. Why would
Speaker 1: you do this? And the amount of public pressure it
Speaker 1: took is pretty sad, But eventually they caved, and it
Speaker 1: kind of really helped the city Milwaukee reel back and
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, maybe we shouldn't have Jeffrey Dahmer themed
Speaker 1: food and drink and tours and make all these board
Speaker 1: games and all these things like it. It really helped
Speaker 1: kind of put that into perspective. So I hate when
Speaker 1: you kind of have to land best or you have
Speaker 1: to put one figure on a like on a pike,
Speaker 1: to be like, look at this terrible thing, because like
Speaker 1: this is a business. I still I don't want these
Speaker 1: people to go jobless. But in an instance like that,
Speaker 1: sometimes it does take publicly shaming one large group of
Speaker 1: people to get the rest of the people to realize, like, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't cool. So that's so interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: I want to I wanna switch gears a bit and
Speaker 1: talk a bit about the case that I feel like
Speaker 1: is really just taking off on TikTok um, that tragic
Speaker 1: situation happening with Gabby Petito. Um by the time this
Speaker 1: comes out, you know, I know, the last update that
Speaker 1: I saw was that uh, they had found remains and
Speaker 1: they were consistent with her, but it wasn't wasn't clear
Speaker 1: if it wasn't not um. I I want to stay
Speaker 1: up right off the top of the the conversation that
Speaker 1: you know, what happened to her is a tragedy. I
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't know the specifics of what
Speaker 1: has happened, but you know, it's tragic and horrifying, and
Speaker 1: like my heart goes out to her family and to
Speaker 1: her community, and I guess I wonder you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen them to all of these very it
Speaker 1: almost seems like every time there was a new update,
Speaker 1: I was seeing new TikTok's on my for you page.
Speaker 1: Some of them were just sort of like buy the book,
Speaker 1: like here's what's going on, you know, just like news update,
Speaker 1: and like I didn't really have a problem with those,
Speaker 1: but then I would see these other videos that almost
Speaker 1: seemed kind of gleeful or like excited. I can't even
Speaker 1: really describe it. It would be like you would think
Speaker 1: they were talking about like a new episode of a
Speaker 1: show they like, but they're actually talking about like the
Speaker 1: like disappearance of a young woman who is a real person.
Speaker 1: And I can't really explain the why. I I just like, really,
Speaker 1: I was surprised to see this, and I was surprised
Speaker 1: to see how much it took hold. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm a bit older than you. So I remember when
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway went missing. I was in college, and it
Speaker 1: was like the around the clock coverage of her disappearance.
Speaker 1: People were like, oh, well, it's because she is a
Speaker 1: like pretty white girl. And you know, there are so
Speaker 1: many different, you know, indigenous black and brown women who
Speaker 1: have gone missing in the same area that certainly have
Speaker 1: not gotten the same level of of you know, attention
Speaker 1: that this case has gotten. And that's not to take
Speaker 1: away from the fact that I'm happy that people are
Speaker 1: you know, really motivated to find her and that they're
Speaker 1: that they're like they're talking about her case. But I
Speaker 1: can't help but wonder like, is there a way that
Speaker 1: people can talk about this situation? Just is seems kind
Speaker 1: of ghoulish to me. Absolutely, You're you're hitting out all
Speaker 1: the all of the points that I've been trying to
Speaker 1: get across on my TikTok. So, like you said, just
Speaker 1: to make sure that we're all clear, like, we are
Speaker 1: very happy that Gabby was able to get the social
Speaker 1: media attention that she did get. And I think it
Speaker 1: can high to an extent, it can highlight the power
Speaker 1: of social media because there were so many posts out
Speaker 1: there being like, hey, this young girl is missing. Here
Speaker 1: is her name, here is her face, here's a couple
Speaker 1: of identifying markers, and this is where she was last seen.
Speaker 1: That's such critical information, especially if you're in that area.
Speaker 1: This is a little bit more unique because it kind
Speaker 1: of had like a transnational like it was two stay
Speaker 1: it's very far away from each other. But especially if
Speaker 1: you're local, that can be really useful. Somebody who happens
Speaker 1: to see a TikTok about this girl, who happens to
Speaker 1: see a piece of critical evidence like how we actually
Speaker 1: experienced with this case. That is so crucial and it's
Speaker 1: so important. I never want to downplay how important that is.
Speaker 1: But at the same time it has this is such
Speaker 1: an intense boomerang effect to that starts to come back around,
Speaker 1: and we did see so many videos of people with
Speaker 1: just outright the wrong attitude, very like you said, gleeful,
Speaker 1: almost getty, very excited whenever they could be the first
Speaker 1: one to break the next piece of information, which was
Speaker 1: usually just purely speculation with nothing to back it up.
Speaker 1: And it's frustrating to see that kind of content because
Speaker 1: you're always going to have that on the Internet no
Speaker 1: matter what you're talking about. There's always going to be
Speaker 1: people when you have the entire world that your fingers,
Speaker 1: who take things the wrong way. But these videos were
Speaker 1: going viral, and I think that's one of the biggest
Speaker 1: criticisms I've got, and one of the biggest pieces of
Speaker 1: backlash I've got is why are you fixating on these
Speaker 1: total rando crazies who have no followers And that's not
Speaker 1: the case. I'm highlighting videos that have had hundreds of thousands,
Speaker 1: if not millions of views. Yet somehow it seems like,
Speaker 1: nobody's calling out the tone, and I think it really
Speaker 1: speaks to the larger point of TikTok is a platform
Speaker 1: you can go viral on very easily. It is very
Speaker 1: easy to make content. The bar for entry is set
Speaker 1: incredibly low, and so you have people who are by
Speaker 1: far far from professional journalists making this kind of content.
Speaker 1: But then at the end of the day, they want
Speaker 1: to be put in the same category as journalists, and
Speaker 1: they're like, I'm just breaking the news, I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to spread awareness. Be like, Okay, now you're starting to
Speaker 1: march in this territory of professional journalism, yet you're not
Speaker 1: holding yourself and nobody's holding you too remotely what we
Speaker 1: could could be considered journalistic standards. And like any journalist
Speaker 1: who puts out a story that's absolutely crass and inappropriate,
Speaker 1: they're going to receive backlash. If these TikTokers want to
Speaker 1: be held in the same regard, they should were prepared
Speaker 1: for the same exact backlash. Let's say a quick break. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw one of the videos where um, somebody was
Speaker 1: referencing l Woods. You know that scene at the end
Speaker 1: of Legally Blonde where l is able to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: because of her her perm, she couldn't have been in
Speaker 1: the shower because her curls are intact. And it was
Speaker 1: in reference to a Instagram picture of Gabby with blonde
Speaker 1: hair with like her her roots had been done so
Speaker 1: her roots were not dark. And again I think that
Speaker 1: referencing I love legally blonde. I think like referencing yourself
Speaker 1: as an L Woods type or any reference to that,
Speaker 1: to like a comedy when we're talking about a missing person,
Speaker 1: I think it's just not good. It's just it's been
Speaker 1: bad taste, you know, exactly. And I think, like I
Speaker 1: remember back during the Boston bombing. At that time, I
Speaker 1: was like very active on Reddit, and redditors were so
Speaker 1: convinced they had found they had like solved the boss
Speaker 1: the Boston bombing. Uh. They thought it was this guy
Speaker 1: who had gone who had gone missing. His family was
Speaker 1: looking for him, and they were like, oh, the pictures
Speaker 1: are the same, and it turns out it was not true.
Speaker 1: Like it was just they got the wrong guy. This
Speaker 1: family who was already suffering from their you know, their
Speaker 1: family member being missing, had to go through this process
Speaker 1: of being like, he's not the Boston bomber. He is missing,
Speaker 1: but he's not the Boston bomber, and it was just
Speaker 1: a case of like they got the wrong person. They
Speaker 1: they you know, internet slew this just didn't know what
Speaker 1: they were doing. And so part of me, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is where it gets kind of complicated, and I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have this is just my opinion, and I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have the like right answer. I'm just I
Speaker 1: just have a lot of questions I saw on Twitter
Speaker 1: or someone saying like, oh, well, there's too much emphasis
Speaker 1: on some of the unsavory aspects of the true crime
Speaker 1: TikTok community. But they're over there, they're glossing over the
Speaker 1: fact that like gen z TikTok or like young women
Speaker 1: and girls broke this case open, and you know that,
Speaker 1: you know, they really cracked this case and gonna be
Speaker 1: thinking like, hey, I'm not sure if that's true. B
Speaker 1: When you glorify internet sleuth you also have to take
Speaker 1: into account that internet sleuths have like ruined people's lives,
Speaker 1: got the wrong person, you know, just gotten it wrong
Speaker 1: because they're not actual you know, investigators. There's people on
Speaker 1: on on social media or on the internet. And I also,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how I how I felt
Speaker 1: about that that she she basically said that the reason
Speaker 1: why people are being so hard on these TikTokers is
Speaker 1: because they're mostly women, young women and girls, and that
Speaker 1: we don't like young women and girls, and so it's
Speaker 1: just sexist. And I thought it was an interesting sort
Speaker 1: of Devil's advocate position. I'm just not I was not
Speaker 1: sure I agree. I just think that, like, it's unsavory,
Speaker 1: and I don't find it unsavory because it's women and
Speaker 1: girls doing it. I find it unsavory because it's not
Speaker 1: a good thing to be doing. I guess that was
Speaker 1: a pretty big reaction that I've been seeing online. Is
Speaker 1: TikTok correctice case, these internet sleuths were the one who
Speaker 1: ones who did it. It had a very similar air
Speaker 1: to I hate to be referencing a Netflix show in
Speaker 1: this specific situation, but it's terrifyingly accurate is the show
Speaker 1: Don't Funk with Cats. It was this case of this
Speaker 1: woman who had zero experience, had no idea really what
Speaker 1: she was doing, but fell down this rabbit hole and
Speaker 1: ended up actually solving a very complicated, pretty much dead
Speaker 1: end series of murders. And that was very impressive, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of scary, because even that woman has come
Speaker 1: out and said, like, hey, this was purely coincidental. Please
Speaker 1: don't try to mimic what I was doing. Like I
Speaker 1: didn't know what I was doing. I could have gotten
Speaker 1: really hurt. I could have accused the wrong person. This
Speaker 1: just happened to work out perfectly. And so it's really
Speaker 1: frustrating to see the people on TikTok who are now
Speaker 1: I don't want to say, taking credit, but are definitely
Speaker 1: patting themselves on the back for having cracked this case,
Speaker 1: in which, as far as I understand, at least when
Speaker 1: we're recording right now, what the case was is that
Speaker 1: the biggest piece of evidence they received help find this
Speaker 1: poor girl's remains a few days ago, just yesterday. Wow,
Speaker 1: time is time is weird? I was just yesterday that
Speaker 1: she it. There was some like van life YouTubers who
Speaker 1: made very similar content to Gabby, who had seen all
Speaker 1: these stories online about how Gabby was missing and then
Speaker 1: realized they happened to be in the same National park
Speaker 1: as her roughly the same time, and they had a
Speaker 1: bunch of unedited raw footage from their trip that they
Speaker 1: were going to put up on YouTube. So they scrubbed
Speaker 1: through all this unedited footage and realized that they actually
Speaker 1: found like a clear shot of what was Gabby's van,
Speaker 1: and they sent that to the FBI. They had posted
Speaker 1: online about it too. The FBI followed up on that,
Speaker 1: went back to the same exact spot, and that's end
Speaker 1: how they ended up finding her remains. So that's one
Speaker 1: of those instances of like the the story being on
Speaker 1: social media and blowing up as big as it did,
Speaker 1: truly did help in that specific instance at least bring
Speaker 1: that tip to the proper authorities who were then able
Speaker 1: to look into it and identify what it actually happened.
Speaker 1: But there's that doesn't negate the insane amount of problems
Speaker 1: that come with those same exact internet salutes. And it's
Speaker 1: truly frustrating to see the same people that two days
Speaker 1: ago were conspiring that Gabby was actually a serial killer
Speaker 1: um and that she was murdering other people and is
Speaker 1: now on the run, or another conspiracy I had seen
Speaker 1: is that she was just doing it all for attention,
Speaker 1: are now very quick to jump in the pool of
Speaker 1: people who magically cracked this case, and that's so ungodly frustrating.
Speaker 1: I cannot put into words. How angry that makes me
Speaker 1: that the same exact people who were claiming she was
Speaker 1: doing it for attention are ready to say that they're
Speaker 1: the ones who found her remains. That's I mean, I
Speaker 1: can only imagine how frustrating that is. And yeah, the
Speaker 1: short list of completely baseless conspiracy theories I saw people
Speaker 1: saying on TikTok doing it for attention, she was killing
Speaker 1: people her I guess fiance or partner had to be
Speaker 1: guilty because he liked fight club. Another serial killer, who
Speaker 1: are another serial killer might have been responsible. Like, I
Speaker 1: don't know that there's any kind of like link. Everybody's like,
Speaker 1: oh there's another you know, another couple was murdered around there.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it's the same person. You know. Just I
Speaker 1: feel like when you traffic in just like baseless conjecture
Speaker 1: to then be doing a bit of a victory laps,
Speaker 1: it just seems very incongruous to me. Like I've I've
Speaker 1: seen the same thing that you're talking about, where people
Speaker 1: are now kind of like I don't want to say
Speaker 1: taking credit, but really being like wow, my videos just
Speaker 1: wildly speculating they really helped, And I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if that's the right takeaway here exactly. There's I
Speaker 1: don't want to name drop anybody on a podcast because
Speaker 1: I don't want this person receiving a ton of hate.
Speaker 1: But there was one individual on TikTok who had made
Speaker 1: um over for a videos about Gabby in less than
Speaker 1: six days and was very quick to uh boost any
Speaker 1: of these random theories anytime through anybody through speculation her way,
Speaker 1: she would immediately boost it, make a video about it,
Speaker 1: and a lot of her videos we're getting hundreds of
Speaker 1: thousands of views. And she is now the impression I'm
Speaker 1: getting is she's like, we did it, guys, we got
Speaker 1: Gabby justice. Now let's go after the next person, Like
Speaker 1: let's just keep going down the list of missing persons.
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is not a healthy way
Speaker 1: to go about like helping, Like there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 1: being like I want to help bring awareness to missing persons,
Speaker 1: especially kind of circling back how you said there are
Speaker 1: a lot of black, brown and Indigenous people that do
Speaker 1: not get the same level of attention. That can be
Speaker 1: a really well intentioned attitude about how you present yourself online.
Speaker 1: But you were very lucky about how this Gabby situation
Speaker 1: played out because like you said, with the Reddit situation,
Speaker 1: all these Boston bomber conspiracy theories that they had going on,
Speaker 1: it did not end well, and it's not unreasonable to
Speaker 1: assume that we could have a very similar situation on
Speaker 1: our hands if the Internet, through mob justice, vigilante justice,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, starts to all jointly
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that somebody who's potentially innocent in
Speaker 1: a situation um is then so aggressively harassed online that
Speaker 1: they're possibly driven to do something unthinkable. Uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: rough to think about that that could happen, and how
Speaker 1: ready and how excited people, especially on TikTok are right
Speaker 1: now to do exactly that. Yeah, that's a really good reminder.
Speaker 1: And I think part of me, like the part of
Speaker 1: me that's interested in why humans do the things they do.
Speaker 1: I can understand why people almost seem excited too to
Speaker 1: piece together what happened in this situation. It almost seems
Speaker 1: like it's like a puzzle or a game, like I
Speaker 1: can under and I can understand why it makes people
Speaker 1: feel very validated to be like, oh, we are crusading
Speaker 1: for justice for this this this young woman who is
Speaker 1: not here to fight for herself, Like all of that
Speaker 1: feels very noble. So like, I want to be clear
Speaker 1: that I can really understand the reasoning behind why people
Speaker 1: get but why people act the way they do when
Speaker 1: it comes to this kind of thing, I really can.
Speaker 1: But I think that those kinds of feelings can be
Speaker 1: sort of intoxicating, and when you're when you're intoxicated on
Speaker 1: a feeling, when you when you feel like you are,
Speaker 1: you know, crusading for justice. I think that sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: the bigger picture can get missed and you can sort
Speaker 1: of like miss exactly what you're talking about. What happens
Speaker 1: if somebody is wrongly accused, what happens if you're actually
Speaker 1: making you know, an investigation work, Like what if you're
Speaker 1: actually impeding an investigation by whipping up so much social
Speaker 1: media frenzies. So I'm happy that in this case it
Speaker 1: seems like it might have gone okay, But I don't
Speaker 1: want that to make it seem like, oh, it's it's
Speaker 1: good to have a social media fueled you know, mob
Speaker 1: justice style internet sleuth frenzy. It's always going to end
Speaker 1: up okay. Um, I feel like that's a really dangerous
Speaker 1: precedent exactly and especially talking about just like the possible
Speaker 1: implications of something going this viral. Uh, like the O. J.
Speaker 1: Simpson case that was one of the most iconic, high
Speaker 1: profile cases, and because it was covered on literally every
Speaker 1: inch of the every inch of the news, every magazine,
Speaker 1: every newspaper, it was absolutely everywhere. Uh. That actually dramatically
Speaker 1: impacted how the courtroom played out, because how can you
Speaker 1: find a jury of impartial jurors when every single person
Speaker 1: has heard about this story and every single person has
Speaker 1: come to their own conclusion. So I can imagine that
Speaker 1: if I pray that Gabby finds justice and we figure
Speaker 1: out exactly what happened, and this potentially leads to somebody
Speaker 1: being tried in court. Uh. The more viral this story is,
Speaker 1: and the more conspiracies that are popular, the harder it's
Speaker 1: going to be to find a group of twelve people
Speaker 1: that don't already have their own opinions. Absolutely, I have
Speaker 1: to show you something that. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: your Facebook feeds look like, but I know that mine
Speaker 1: has just been any little update on this case, a
Speaker 1: new story. And so I'm I'm in Washington, d C. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm not anywhere near where this happened on my local
Speaker 1: Fox affiliate Fox five d C. I'm gonna show you
Speaker 1: this picture. I don't know if you can see it
Speaker 1: through the camera and the yeah, and the headline says,
Speaker 1: rainbow appears where authorities discovered body believed to be Gabby
Speaker 1: the Potito. A rainbow appeared in the area where authorities
Speaker 1: earlier Sunday discovered what they believe to be the body
Speaker 1: of Gabby Potito and the Grand Titan National Park. And
Speaker 1: part of me just thought, like, it's very clear to
Speaker 1: me that any new angle they are going to get
Speaker 1: as much eyeballs and then they they they're gonna use
Speaker 1: this story to get as much eyeballs and clicks as possible,
Speaker 1: like if it's an actual update on the case, or
Speaker 1: an actual update in her disappearance or you know, something
Speaker 1: like that. Sure, a part of people was like, who would, like,
Speaker 1: you're capital You're like writing an article about a rainbow appearing,
Speaker 1: making it like I just really had a problem with
Speaker 1: that story, And I was like, wow, they really are
Speaker 1: any new angle, they are wasting no time to make
Speaker 1: sure that gets in our feeds, because it's almost like
Speaker 1: they're it felt like they were feeding this like frenzy
Speaker 1: or this appetite for a new content about this case.
Speaker 1: And it didn't matter if it was actually a breaking update.
Speaker 1: It didn't matter if it was actually like relevant to
Speaker 1: the case. Uh. Personally, I don't think a rainbow appearing
Speaker 1: in the sky is necessarily going to be relevant to
Speaker 1: this case or even like timely local information from my
Speaker 1: local news source here in d C. But the fact
Speaker 1: that they were like surfacing this to me, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: they really are just trying to have a steady stream
Speaker 1: of content related to this, not not just important breaking,
Speaker 1: you know, information about it, but just like anything like
Speaker 1: here's what the weather was like when they found her body.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, that's that's a rough one. And that even
Speaker 1: marshes kind of back into the territory of a lot
Speaker 1: of people who say, how are these online internet sleuths
Speaker 1: who just report every five seconds on the newest update,
Speaker 1: whether it's true or not, any different than local news stations.
Speaker 1: And there is an argument to be had for like
Speaker 1: news stations tend to have this problem too. They tend
Speaker 1: to milk stories for everything they're absolutely worth. But that
Speaker 1: criticism of them is out there and public, and maybe
Speaker 1: it's not getting enough attention and it's not getting enough
Speaker 1: people talking about it as it deserves. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: make the people online who don't even have remotely any
Speaker 1: professional experience in this free from that same amount of
Speaker 1: criticism to say like, oh, he did it too, is
Speaker 1: not get out of jail free card from you also
Speaker 1: being held liable for some of the content some random
Speaker 1: person on the street might make. And I tend to
Speaker 1: get a lot of criticism in the game of like, hey,
Speaker 1: this isn't my day job. I'm just making endom videos
Speaker 1: on the internet. Why are you mad at me? And
Speaker 1: I totally get that. I'm somebody who makes random videos
Speaker 1: on the internet too. I didn't plan on having a
Speaker 1: quarter million followers. I still have a day job, and
Speaker 1: it's I get it. But if you're going to keep
Speaker 1: that platform, prepare for the criticism that's just that's what's
Speaker 1: gonna come with it. Yeah. Right, that's such a good point.
Speaker 1: And I think like it reminds me of something else
Speaker 1: I learned from your video from your TikTok about this
Speaker 1: is that like sometimes particularly on YouTube, but I do
Speaker 1: know on TikTok as well. You know your TikTok can
Speaker 1: be monetized your YouTube can certainly be monetized. Part of
Speaker 1: me was like, is this just people kind of like
Speaker 1: making money off of someone else's trauma and someone else's
Speaker 1: pain and someone else's tragedy. Like, you know, I can
Speaker 1: understand the incentive to like report on every little thing,
Speaker 1: be the first temple report on a breaking thing, no
Speaker 1: matter if it's true. You know, every little speculation, make
Speaker 1: a new video about it. If you are trying to
Speaker 1: you know, game of five to get more eyeballs because
Speaker 1: it leads to more money. I mean, that's definitely we know.
Speaker 1: That is how some of these platforms were m hm,
Speaker 1: absolutely and uh comparing not to do this for a second,
Speaker 1: but to compare the amount of money that you can
Speaker 1: get between platforms, TikTok is one of the lowest paid
Speaker 1: social media platforms. So uh, as far as like raking
Speaker 1: in the cash, TikTok is not necessarily the best way
Speaker 1: to do it, of But that doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: can't make money on TikTok. I am no longer monetizing
Speaker 1: my content. But when I did have monetized content, anytime
Speaker 1: I broke a million views on a video, I could
Speaker 1: get anywhere from like fifty bucks depending on how many comments,
Speaker 1: how many likes, so many times it got shared. So
Speaker 1: if you go back to what I was saying, there
Speaker 1: was a girl with over forty videos and all them
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of views. You start doing the math
Speaker 1: that can add up really quickly. And that's not to
Speaker 1: say that people's content doesn't have value and you shouldn't
Speaker 1: be paid for your work, but especially if you are
Speaker 1: being paid for your work, you should be held to
Speaker 1: hire criticism because now, hey, you're making money off of
Speaker 1: this um. If you want to just report on exactly
Speaker 1: what happened, I can't fault you for doing that, and
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily mad that you're making money, But as
Speaker 1: soon as you start getting into the conspiratorial, the speculative,
Speaker 1: the outright wrong information, then hey, I'm gonna remind you
Speaker 1: you're making money on this, you should probably try to
Speaker 1: be ethical about it. There was one girl in particular
Speaker 1: who she sends taking her video down, and she has apologized,
Speaker 1: so we'll give her credit for that. The girl who
Speaker 1: popularized the theory that Gabby was actually a serial killer. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's horrifying and I cannot imagine her family seeing that.
Speaker 1: I feel bad even mentioning it on a podcast, but
Speaker 1: that that happened, they spread that conspiracy theory and she
Speaker 1: took her video down, but it's still all over Twitter.
Speaker 1: It got millions of views. She probably made a decent
Speaker 1: amount of money on that, And it's like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: understand you're sorry. In hindsight, you feel bad, especially after
Speaker 1: they found her remains, but you still make money on that.
Speaker 1: It would be kind of nice if you donated, And
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's just me more after a quick break,
Speaker 1: let's get right back into it. I'm on this kick
Speaker 1: lately of like, if you have a platform, even if
Speaker 1: it's a platform where you're not expecting to go viral,
Speaker 1: maybe you don't have that many followers, and you just
Speaker 1: you say something and you're like, oh now I've gone viral.
Speaker 1: Platforms common with responsibility, and like it is your responsibility
Speaker 1: to be a good steward of your platform and not
Speaker 1: just use it to spread baseless conspiracy theories typically that
Speaker 1: are that harmful to the family of someone who has
Speaker 1: gone missing. Like I just like, it's just completely irresponsible, exactly,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really said, and it kind of ties
Speaker 1: back into before this whole Gabby situation happened. Because I
Speaker 1: don't want to linger on that too much because it's
Speaker 1: kind of a larger conversation about true crime. But I
Speaker 1: was making a couple of videos that, like you had
Speaker 1: said before, this had all happened a few months ago,
Speaker 1: talking about like just some terrible things in the true
Speaker 1: crime community I was finding on the Internet and kind
Speaker 1: of going back to like, oh, the Jeffrey Dahmer T
Speaker 1: shirts or um, like the serial killer merchandise, these coloring books. Um,
Speaker 1: these people are outright making money off of people's tragedies.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a lot more black and white
Speaker 1: ethically irresponsible than somebody who's making content that kind of
Speaker 1: just talks about an active case in an active situation. Um.
Speaker 1: So I like criticizing them for how they make their
Speaker 1: money more because it's a lot more like, hey, maybe
Speaker 1: we shouldn't make a coloring book of a child predator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I am just gonna say, if you're making
Speaker 1: coloring books glorifying a child predator, you're an asshole. Like
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it should be illegal, but you're
Speaker 1: an asshole. There. The jury is, the jury is not
Speaker 1: still out if you're making if you're selling shirts that
Speaker 1: say cute see little slogans about Jeffrey Dahmer. You're not
Speaker 1: my kind of people. So completely agree with you there.
Speaker 1: And I do think it is much clearer, like if
Speaker 1: you're using your platform to make content about true crime
Speaker 1: and and you're monetizing them. Okay, like I have questions,
Speaker 1: but all right, but it's so clear when you're like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mass produce coloring books, I produced T shirts.
Speaker 1: It's it's such a clearer I'm glad that you compared
Speaker 1: the two because it's such a clearer example of like harm,
Speaker 1: I guess, like making money off of someone else's tragedy. Mhm.
Speaker 1: So in your take, you know, if you are someone
Speaker 1: who wants to make true crime content or like just
Speaker 1: generally like content that raises awareness, how can you be
Speaker 1: sure that you're doing that in a way that it's
Speaker 1: respectable and ethical. So I think that was a question
Speaker 1: I had for myself for the longest time, especially because
Speaker 1: when I started putting out criticisms, it wasn't necessarily like
Speaker 1: the most poignant criticisms. It was honestly kind of me randling,
Speaker 1: like this is kind of messed up. Why does this exist?
Speaker 1: And then I had a lot of people ask me like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: if this isn't ethical, what do you consider to be ethical?
Speaker 1: Is there a way to ethically consume or produce true
Speaker 1: crime content? So I've spent a ton of time mulling
Speaker 1: that over, and it's actually been kind of helpful because
Speaker 1: there have been various true crime creators who have reached
Speaker 1: out to me and been like, hey, I've seen your content.
Speaker 1: I one percent agree with you. I don't like that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff either. I'm trying to change it. Can
Speaker 1: I get your support? And I've been very hesitant to
Speaker 1: boost any one specific true crime content creator on my
Speaker 1: own platform, but I have seen people who I think
Speaker 1: are doing it in a slightly better way. I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of like the most common form of true
Speaker 1: crime content is through a podcast. We've got things like
Speaker 1: My Favorite Murder Last podcast and left all those incredibly
Speaker 1: popular podcasts, and there's a lot of smaller ones out
Speaker 1: there that right now that are really trying to break
Speaker 1: through that folk entirely on victim advocacy. They talk about
Speaker 1: police reform, they talk about prison reform, like they're truly
Speaker 1: not just talking about like, hey, it's crazy how Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Dahmer like murdered a bunch of people a couple of
Speaker 1: decades ago. That's not the entire episode they're talking about. Hey, um,
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer did murder a lot of people a few
Speaker 1: decades ago. Let's talk about, um, why that happened, what
Speaker 1: failings happened with the police, and why none of that
Speaker 1: has changed yet, and why Milwaukee really needs to get
Speaker 1: their stuff together. And I think that angle of the
Speaker 1: content of what systemically allowed this to happen, what created
Speaker 1: this environment where these things occurred, and what is still
Speaker 1: occurring in our society today, and how can we fundamentally
Speaker 1: change things so that these things do not continue. I
Speaker 1: think is some of the best true time content out there,
Speaker 1: and I think it does have a genuine aim to
Speaker 1: produce change. So I genuinely love that kind of content.
Speaker 1: And I have overwhelmingly seen that content is predominantly produced
Speaker 1: people of color because they have that much more detailed,
Speaker 1: in depth perspective. So pretty much any true kind of
Speaker 1: content creator within reason who is a person of color,
Speaker 1: I've immediately felt a stronger attraction to the content they
Speaker 1: make because they tend to have that heavier focus on
Speaker 1: that aspect, I am so glad that you said that, because,
Speaker 1: you know, when thinking about it, I know that I'm
Speaker 1: not a huge consumer of true crime, But the content
Speaker 1: that I do consume, I think it's got to be
Speaker 1: content that is comfortable critiquing systems and particually systems of
Speaker 1: power and asking questions about how these systems fail victims
Speaker 1: and survivors. I know that so many true crime podcasts
Speaker 1: will just repeat what police officers say, or just repeat
Speaker 1: police reports verbatim, and it can kind of become this
Speaker 1: kind of copaganda where they're just like, oh, well the
Speaker 1: police said this, so that's got to be true. And
Speaker 1: I think good true crime content really has this opportunity
Speaker 1: to not just take the police at their word, not
Speaker 1: just take these systems at their word, but instead critique
Speaker 1: these systems and ask questions about how they really do
Speaker 1: fail victims and survivors every day. And so I want
Speaker 1: to be asking questions like what systems worked to fail
Speaker 1: Gabby and all the other missing and murdered women and
Speaker 1: girls out there, Like how are we supporting victims and
Speaker 1: survivors of domestic abuse and violence? How are we making
Speaker 1: sure that they're protected and actually do have support. Are
Speaker 1: we creating a climate that leads to folks like this
Speaker 1: to be more vulnerable in these kinds of situations, Like
Speaker 1: I want to know what systems failed these victims and
Speaker 1: survivors of violence and crime so that it's not repeated
Speaker 1: and we can actually learn something to make systemic change
Speaker 1: that leads to less tragedy and less harm over all, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think another aspect from the racial issue that
Speaker 1: I think doesn't get highlighted enough, um at least in
Speaker 1: the white spaces that I tend to find myself in
Speaker 1: a lot, is that, uh, content creators that tend to
Speaker 1: have an incredibly heavy focus on white victims is something
Speaker 1: that needs to be seriously reevaluated, especially when we're talking
Speaker 1: about like national news coverage. I know that a lot
Speaker 1: of people will make the argument that in gabby situation,
Speaker 1: she was a social media influencer, so that had a
Speaker 1: bit of an effect on how discussed her situation was,
Speaker 1: but we cannot ignore the fact that people of color,
Speaker 1: men or LGBT individuals do not get this kind of coverage,
Speaker 1: People who aren't conventionally attractive do not give this kind
Speaker 1: of coverage, and podcasts that go out of their way
Speaker 1: to highlight instances like that, or just not necessarily podcast,
Speaker 1: but content in general that goes out of the way
Speaker 1: to highlight those who are less likely to get coverage
Speaker 1: in the first place. I hate to say it, but
Speaker 1: just about everybody knows about Jeffrey Dahmer, every just about
Speaker 1: everybody knows about Ted Bundy. They might not know the
Speaker 1: finer specifics. But is it necessarily worth your time to
Speaker 1: go into that kind of content over a ten part
Speaker 1: series when you could be spending that time possibly talking
Speaker 1: about an active missing person who could really use a
Speaker 1: bolster invoice and a fresh reminder to their local place
Speaker 1: department that people still care and people are still watching,
Speaker 1: and just giving the facts of what's up, making sure
Speaker 1: of people are where like hey, this is the individual,
Speaker 1: looks like this is where they were last seen. Would
Speaker 1: be really awesome if people didn't forget that this is
Speaker 1: still a problem because those marginalized individuals never get that
Speaker 1: kind of attention. Oh absolutely, And actually, you know, I've
Speaker 1: seen recently folks making that criticism of the Gabby Potito case,
Speaker 1: and so I've seen a lot of true crime contact
Speaker 1: creators sort of I will I will say, like trying
Speaker 1: to respond to that. So they'll they'll be talking about
Speaker 1: Gabby's case and then be like, Oh, that's similar to
Speaker 1: this other case but then involved a person of color
Speaker 1: or a you know, a non white victim or an
Speaker 1: LGBTQ person, and I I'm I'm here for it, Like
Speaker 1: I like, if you have a platform and that you
Speaker 1: can use to get the word out about these cases
Speaker 1: that are not getting as much attention, I think that's great.
Speaker 1: But I can't help but wonder, like why weren't we
Speaker 1: doing it all along? Like why did it take that
Speaker 1: nudge of like you know, there are there were seven
Speaker 1: hundred and ten you know, missing and missing and murdered
Speaker 1: Indigenous women and girls in that same area talk about
Speaker 1: them as well. Like I'm happy that folks are boosting
Speaker 1: this because I think I think, you know, it could
Speaker 1: it could really like revive interest, you know, But I
Speaker 1: just have to ask, like why did it Perhaps we
Speaker 1: should be interrogating why it took a nudge? Why it
Speaker 1: took that that kind of that kind of line being
Speaker 1: sort of like in the consciousness of how we how
Speaker 1: we're talking about this case to make that to have
Speaker 1: folks that are making true prime content start generating awareness
Speaker 1: about these other kinds of cases exactly. And I do
Speaker 1: very pessimistically, kind of fully expect that once the coverage
Speaker 1: of Gabby kind of dies down, that this conversation might die.
Speaker 1: And anybody who's willing to keep that conversation going and
Speaker 1: not letting people forget well, I think that is the
Speaker 1: biggest uphill battle. I think is absolutely noble. Like I
Speaker 1: hate that, uh a woman had to be put in
Speaker 1: that situation and had to get the national coverage she
Speaker 1: did to get people to talk about it again. Um,
Speaker 1: But there have been people of color talking about this
Speaker 1: the whole time, and nobody was ever listening to them.
Speaker 1: And it's so frustrating that the only time they get
Speaker 1: the microphone, even if it's for a short period of time,
Speaker 1: is when something tragic and horrific happens to a white
Speaker 1: woman like nobody nobody deserves to happen. Nobody deserves to
Speaker 1: have happened to them what happened to Gabby, um. And
Speaker 1: it's frustrating that the consequence of that is this is
Speaker 1: the only time that people who have been focusing on
Speaker 1: that issue this whole time finally get to speak because
Speaker 1: they will be immediately shot down as a why are
Speaker 1: you making this about race? And it's like I, it's
Speaker 1: It's been about race this whole time. I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this whole time. A white woman passing away tragically
Speaker 1: doesn't change what I've been saying. Jessica, I thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your work and your perspective. Like I
Speaker 1: wasn't really sure what to expect from our conversation because
Speaker 1: I just had a lot of thoughts and like feelings
Speaker 1: and having trouble this even like processing them. But you know,
Speaker 1: I find that your work really helps me articulate my
Speaker 1: own thoughts and helps me process, you know, in highly
Speaker 1: charged times, helps me like process and reconnect to like
Speaker 1: what I'm actually thinking. So thank you for your work.
Speaker 1: Where can folks follow you? And what are you working
Speaker 1: on these days? So right now I have a Hodge
Speaker 1: Project content. I still do make a lot of trafficking
Speaker 1: awareness videos, and I talked a lot about the tracking
Speaker 1: misinformation that is on my TikTok at blood bath and beyond,
Speaker 1: and then that is my handle on all other socials.
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or
Speaker 1: just want to say hi, You can be us at
Speaker 1: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts
Speaker 1: for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod.
Speaker 1: It's a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss creative
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strictland as our executive producer, Tara Harrison as our producer,
Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow,
Speaker 1: rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Made
Speaker 1: You app Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: M