Speaker 1: This is Roxanne Gay, the host of The Roxanne Gay Agenda,
Speaker 1: the bad feminist podcast of Your Dreams. Each week I
Speaker 1: talked to an interesting person about feminism, race, writing in books,
Speaker 1: and art, food, pop culture, and yes, politics, we can't
Speaker 1: escape politics. Listen to the Luminary original podcast The Roxanne
Speaker 1: Gay Agenda every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm
Speaker 1: Robert sex Reese, host of The Doctor Sex re Show.
Speaker 1: And every episode I listened to people talk about their
Speaker 1: sex and intimacy issues, and yes, I despise every minute
Speaker 1: of it. And she she made mistakes too, everyone at
Speaker 1: her wedding. But hell is real. We're all trapped here
Speaker 1: and there's nothing any of us can do about it.
Speaker 1: So join me, won't you? Listen to The Doctors Sex
Speaker 1: re Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The NFL
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Speaker 1: and the Gloria Stefan Here you are listening to Red
Speaker 1: Table Talk via Stephens Podcast, all your favorite episodes from
Speaker 1: our Facebook watch show in audio. They make sure that
Speaker 1: you know that you are the darkest one colorism, the
Speaker 1: distroy being truth. We don't talk about my grandmo. Let
Speaker 1: say don't go outside and don't darken at my family.
Speaker 1: And I still get emotional right now because you think
Speaker 1: I'm a kid. After Latinos speak out about the discrimination
Speaker 1: they face within their own community. Because Latino, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like me. Our culture secret exposed at
Speaker 1: the Red Table. A lot of us are very hypocrite.
Speaker 1: Why why there is racism? They don't pretend to like
Speaker 1: us and really not like us. Latino that is a
Speaker 1: term that unites all Latinos, regardless of nationality or skin color.
Speaker 1: It's about a shared culture and a sense of belonging.
Speaker 1: But let's be clear, being Latino is not a race.
Speaker 1: There are black Latinos, white Latinos in every shade in between.
Speaker 1: One in four US Hispanics identify as Afro Latino, and
Speaker 1: two thirds of Hispanics with darker skin colors report discrimination.
Speaker 1: Common Yet racist phrases such as major lassa or improving
Speaker 1: the race encourage generations of Latinos to value European features
Speaker 1: and skin tone. One survey showed that of dark skinned
Speaker 1: individuals were viewed as less intelligent and therefore less worthy.
Speaker 1: Let go what case is silk hood. This is what
Speaker 1: colorism looks like. It may not be something we want
Speaker 1: to acknowledge, but that's exactly why we wanted to bring
Speaker 1: it to the table. We cannot know what it's like
Speaker 1: to be in the skin of darker Latinos because we
Speaker 1: were born like this. In Latino families, you can have
Speaker 1: someone with very dark skin, you could have someone with
Speaker 1: very light skin, and they can be brother and sister.
Speaker 1: That dynamic within the family can cause your family to
Speaker 1: treat you different. People looking from the outside to treat
Speaker 1: you different, which is why we need to use this
Speaker 1: platform to amplify this issue because I don't know what
Speaker 1: that feels like. It breaks my heart to think that
Speaker 1: after Latinos feel racism in their own family because you
Speaker 1: think of racism as a general thing in society or
Speaker 1: we need happens in your own family. Is very difficult.
Speaker 1: Is that feeling of being the trauma of being oppressed.
Speaker 1: As humans, we tend to get close to what makes
Speaker 1: us comfortable, and sometimes we treat different as less then,
Speaker 1: and that is one of the biggest issues in the world.
Speaker 1: This is something that needs to be gutted from the
Speaker 1: inside out because they're dealing with things in their life
Speaker 1: that we will never know merely as a result of
Speaker 1: the color of their skin. Here we go, girls. Caramel
Speaker 1: is best known as the culture expert on the hit
Speaker 1: show Queer Eye, which I love. But what you may
Speaker 1: not know is that Catamo's grandmother was Cuban. For most
Speaker 1: of his life, he rejected his Latin roots because of
Speaker 1: the racism he felt within his own family. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the table, baby, I am loving this switter. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it so much. I was trying to be
Speaker 1: a little sexy and at your grandma's Cuban. Yes, and
Speaker 1: in opening Jamaica, Yes, Ja Jamaica. Yeah, and she uh lighter, Yes,
Speaker 1: she she was, but she was lighter growing up. I
Speaker 1: felt very embarrassed even today, to be honest, talking to
Speaker 1: the producers and talking to people, every time they refer
Speaker 1: to me as Afro Latino or Latino, I get very
Speaker 1: uncomfortable still to this same something new. It's very new.
Speaker 1: Your Latino family did not accept you. Not accept sounds deliberate.
Speaker 1: I don't think they understood what they were doing, but
Speaker 1: it was this subliminal, unconscious, internalized racism that was in them.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like within your family if somebody's lighter,
Speaker 1: you know, they'll joke and be like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're the darker one and I'm the lighter one.
Speaker 1: And that of course, of course, for me, playing outside
Speaker 1: as a kid was nerve wracking because my grandmother would say,
Speaker 1: don't go outside and don't darken up my family. Don't
Speaker 1: darken up my family. Don't darken up my family. So
Speaker 1: I would not go outside until after five pm because
Speaker 1: then the sun would be less. And I still get
Speaker 1: emotional right now because you think I'm a kid and
Speaker 1: I should not have to be thinking about not going
Speaker 1: outside and playing because I don't want to get darker
Speaker 1: so that my grandmother doesn't say a comment. Maybe she
Speaker 1: even thought she was trying to protect it, and that's
Speaker 1: what it was, and in her mind to think that
Speaker 1: it was going to be better for you to be lighter.
Speaker 1: Her intention was to protect me, to to try to
Speaker 1: say things that she thought was going to help me.
Speaker 1: But the impact is that it destroyed me emotionally. But
Speaker 1: it also made me feel like I wasn't connected to
Speaker 1: my culture intentions. In fact, that is huge my families
Speaker 1: to say, oh, your nose, and my grandmother even my
Speaker 1: mother would squeeze my nose as but it was because
Speaker 1: it's more my nose is more African, my nose is
Speaker 1: more black. And for many years, I kept saying to myself,
Speaker 1: I need to know Jack. I did not know where
Speaker 1: that internalized hatred I had for myself was coming from
Speaker 1: your drama. I mean, we don't realize it, but you
Speaker 1: know it starts with the family that people around you.
Speaker 1: You know, like those experiences are going to mark you
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. I'm the only boy.
Speaker 1: I have sisters and they range from very light to
Speaker 1: I have one sister who's the darkest and her treatment
Speaker 1: was the worst. The reason that I am the person
Speaker 1: on Queer Eye that has the emotional and mental conversations
Speaker 1: is because I understand the trauma and damage where maybe,
Speaker 1: and not to discount my sisters who are lighter, they
Speaker 1: didn't experience because they were Benita. There were all these
Speaker 1: things that were for me. I didn't hear those things
Speaker 1: as often. But you're gorgeous, appreciated. Have you ever been
Speaker 1: told that you couldn't possibly be Latino because you're blank? Yes,
Speaker 1: it wasn't even a question. It's immediately like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're Jamaican, there's no Cuban, And it's an easy way
Speaker 1: just to dismiss me and discriminate me. That's why I
Speaker 1: love what you're doing here, because there's so many people
Speaker 1: who are going to watch you here this for the
Speaker 1: first time and say, oh, this is a problem. Maybe
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be making these comments. And so what I
Speaker 1: love about this conversation is that for those individuals who
Speaker 1: are experiencing their mental health, their emotional health being damaged,
Speaker 1: this is a moment where you can understand that you
Speaker 1: are beautiful as you are because it's a journey that
Speaker 1: I'm going on right now to love myself because of
Speaker 1: the internalized racism that I heard and experienced from my
Speaker 1: Latin side. But I started to say, I have to
Speaker 1: build myself back up. Conversations like this where I look
Speaker 1: at you all and you look like people my family,
Speaker 1: and you're affirming me for the first time, It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm getting chills, I'm getting emotional. It's like I feel included.
Speaker 1: You have to go through a process after trauma to
Speaker 1: understand it, to turn it into something meaningful, to then
Speaker 1: be able to help somebody else. You don't just live
Speaker 1: like this, go through trauma and then oh, sure, I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm unaffective. Build however, you change it with your sons.
Speaker 1: I tell them the skin is gorgeous, the darker it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure they hear it. And I
Speaker 1: realized it's important the language I have in my home.
Speaker 1: I no longer allow other family members, cousins, aunt's, uncle's,
Speaker 1: anyone to make comments to my kids and me to
Speaker 1: walk away. It's important for me now to be respectful
Speaker 1: of my family, especially those who are older, but to
Speaker 1: also say this is why that is hurtful. This is
Speaker 1: why it is damaging, and this is why I'm hoping
Speaker 1: we can talk about why you think that's okay to
Speaker 1: say and how you changing that could actually make us
Speaker 1: a stronger. Fact, because a stronger But they're comparing. There's
Speaker 1: something I say that people all the time. Comparison is
Speaker 1: the thief of joy. If you want to steal the
Speaker 1: joy from your family, whether it's their skin tone, whether
Speaker 1: it's their education, keep comparing your kids and see if
Speaker 1: you don't steal the joy and the love that's in
Speaker 1: your home. And let's try to be better. Let's try
Speaker 1: to really think about what we're saying to each other
Speaker 1: as human beings. I understand that your boyfriend Carlos is
Speaker 1: with you. Yes, we have him join us because it
Speaker 1: would be so relevant to this conversation. How god like
Speaker 1: beautiful couple it is. How did you guys meet on Instagram? Yeah?
Speaker 1: The d M very quickly set. He's a beautiful photographer
Speaker 1: and creative director. And so I saw his work and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I like this work. But then
Speaker 1: I saw his face and I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: like updated black men, Latin men, white men. I was
Speaker 1: with a man who for three and a half years
Speaker 1: he s Puerto Rican and I not once try to
Speaker 1: speak Spanish, try to expose my culture, do anything, and
Speaker 1: with that person, I could not connect because I was
Speaker 1: too afraid. This is the first time I've ever felt
Speaker 1: comfortable and embracing my Latin side being with Carloso. Um
Speaker 1: and it's and I'm getting pretty good at it, thank you.
Speaker 1: And it's only be because Carlos and I practice, you know,
Speaker 1: practical tota and and like the only way, no fear,
Speaker 1: you're jumping. But the fear has went away because he
Speaker 1: doesn't judge me. Cuenta, I'll tell you what I think
Speaker 1: making the race better is understanding and not creating these
Speaker 1: barriers or even having to say they are afraid in
Speaker 1: Mexico contacto as Latinos. We need to make sure we're
Speaker 1: looking at Wow, that's the first time I ever said
Speaker 1: we yeah, there you go. That's crazy. That was really
Speaker 1: just that's great. And so we have to think about
Speaker 1: what internalized within the Latino community. Are we saying to
Speaker 1: ourselves and believing and then passing on that is wrong
Speaker 1: about Latinos or black people period? What do you guys?
Speaker 1: Information for Cuenta, we have to learn just we need
Speaker 1: to do better. We can't change what happened before. We
Speaker 1: can learn from it and try to move forward being open.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for being the Michael to The
Speaker 1: podcast network is dedicated to celebrating and elevating Latin X voices,
Speaker 1: stories and content creators in English, Spanish and Spanish. Michael
Speaker 1: Buddha to me means familia means lack or me that
Speaker 1: means labor means so many thig friendships, all the beautiful
Speaker 1: music dancing. It's our voice, our voice to be heard
Speaker 1: about so many different topics, not waiting for anyone else
Speaker 1: to tell our stories and to elevate Latin voices and
Speaker 1: think it's very important nowadays. It's the sense of pride
Speaker 1: that I get, feeling like I belong to something. Michael
Speaker 1: is an opportunity to bring our stories to center stage.
Speaker 1: Gonna be hot. I can't wait for you guys to
Speaker 1: listening Michael podcast that work on the I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts. Look at your
Speaker 1: children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.
Speaker 1: It's a storybook world for them. You look and see
Speaker 1: a tree, They see the wrinkled face of a wizard
Speaker 1: with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebble.
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Speaker 1: and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world?
Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring. I Discover
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Speaker 1: States Forest Service and the AD Council. What grows in
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Speaker 1: forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near
Speaker 1: you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org
Speaker 1: brought to you by the United States Forest Service and
Speaker 1: the AD Council. When was a child, she felt she
Speaker 1: was discriminated against because of the color of her skin
Speaker 1: and the texture of her hair. Now, as the star
Speaker 1: of love and hip hop Miami, which I also love,
Speaker 1: she's using her voice to speak up for black Latin
Speaker 1: welcome matter, I love you, Yeah, Sharing the love, Sharing
Speaker 1: the love. Born Diana dan Ellis de Losantos got her
Speaker 1: start in show business at four years old, dancing in
Speaker 1: the popular Spanish variety series Sabadogan were both she and
Speaker 1: Lily were regular cast members. People know me or I
Speaker 1: started off as Diana Losantos back when I used to
Speaker 1: you know, work at SI Francisco, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: now that I'm grown, I don't know how you did
Speaker 1: it because that was a lot that why why, why,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. Being on that
Speaker 1: platform it was young, I learned a lot from it.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for the opportunity. You know, we know that
Speaker 1: he wasn't a you know, the easiest cookie um at
Speaker 1: least not for me, and obviously you don't mean born
Speaker 1: that we grown now, and there were many things that
Speaker 1: he could have done with his platform to help people
Speaker 1: like myself. During choreographies, they never knew where to place
Speaker 1: me is gonna look awkward. He was one of those
Speaker 1: that also made a lot of those umusto Joe, because
Speaker 1: you know who's gonna go against the power racist comments
Speaker 1: with racist Forty years ago, we didn't have this car
Speaker 1: and the people have gotten away with it. Because even
Speaker 1: if you knew it and I love all these great things, yes,
Speaker 1: but if you had the opportunity of going to sleep
Speaker 1: and waking up black, would you want to wake up black?
Speaker 1: Would you want to be treated as a black person?
Speaker 1: And this is where I come in, where I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's have real conversations. Okay, but you were the only
Speaker 1: black little girl and how many years remind me thirty
Speaker 1: five years ago? GETA is a great accomplishment. Come on, Londo,
Speaker 1: We've been here for the longest time. There isn't a
Speaker 1: Latin country that doesn't have black people, perto Rico, Cuba,
Speaker 1: every single place in the world. And that's the part
Speaker 1: that I feel that it is unfair. That's how I
Speaker 1: like belt like everybody was like drama and we just
Speaker 1: try to cover it up. But a lot of us
Speaker 1: are very hypocrite. And that's just the truth. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, There is racism. Do you racista? I
Speaker 1: would never would you want your daughter, your son to
Speaker 1: marry a black person? You know, saying oh yeah, but
Speaker 1: she's right. Not most people are not like most most
Speaker 1: people have the subtext of racism. Whether they tell you
Speaker 1: to your face, I'm not racist, they're feeling it in
Speaker 1: there and and it's the truth. This is not the
Speaker 1: pain point anybody on this table. Specifically, it's for the
Speaker 1: people that are watching they and it's the truth. And
Speaker 1: if you're racist, don't pretend to like us and really
Speaker 1: not like us. Do what we leave the same thing
Speaker 1: with the notes. I've heard it all, and they make
Speaker 1: sure that you know that you are the darkest one.
Speaker 1: It's like, I see, yeah, I gotta tell me. And
Speaker 1: don't get it twisted with this wig that I got
Speaker 1: on right now, the badness, I got my curls. I
Speaker 1: embraced it. I played part of the game. I know
Speaker 1: what it is. I know that African American parents have
Speaker 1: the talk. Yes to Latino Afro Latino parents have that talk.
Speaker 1: Or after Latinos still black, Yes, we still have to
Speaker 1: have that conversation. No, but do the question, MoMA, listen
Speaker 1: to what you just told you. Afro Latinos black. You'll
Speaker 1: never if you walk by a street, you walk by
Speaker 1: a supermarket or whatever, there's always a security walking. Do
Speaker 1: you need anything, man, do you need anything? No? I don't.
Speaker 1: Why don't you ask somebody else? That's way to me.
Speaker 1: I'm so passionate about it, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: sugarcoat it. Being black. It's not being black in America,
Speaker 1: it's not being black in Cuba. It's not being black,
Speaker 1: and it's being black in the world. Just see us
Speaker 1: as people, you know, Just see us as people. Man,
Speaker 1: what you said is so important. Feel the fierce need
Speaker 1: if somebody says something inappropriate to be like that is disturbing,
Speaker 1: severely inappropriate and all. So I want to ask, is
Speaker 1: it okay if I say something? Is it okay if
Speaker 1: I insert myself here? Because I feel like I almost
Speaker 1: have to use my voice. But I also don't want
Speaker 1: to make anybody uncomfortable. Whatever you feel in your heart
Speaker 1: and your spirit, you do it, stand behind it, and
Speaker 1: especially if you know that it's coming from a good place.
Speaker 1: None of us will ever feel some type of way
Speaker 1: because you're defending us. Because you're standing up for us.
Speaker 1: We're grateful because no one doesn't. Growing up, you never
Speaker 1: saw people like us select those. To me was life
Speaker 1: and I had the honor of being able to work
Speaker 1: with her the way she went through a lot of
Speaker 1: discrimination in Cuba and even when she had the opportunity
Speaker 1: having a major role. I've gone to auditions, but novels
Speaker 1: and yes, exactly, we have like two They've told me.
Speaker 1: If we went so, then here comes apart where I'm
Speaker 1: more be Latina with all due respect, Jennifer Lopez COMI
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it doesn't look like me to agree
Speaker 1: with you. We have grown very much, really have we?
Speaker 1: How many black people do you see? How many black
Speaker 1: people do you see lablas? How many black people do
Speaker 1: you see in the covers of magazines? Do you see
Speaker 1: them in movies? No? You don't. So it's like, ma,
Speaker 1: have we really evolved? You for me and I started
Speaker 1: doing an emotional when I hear you're talking. Was super impactful.
Speaker 1: You don't understand how important it was for me to
Speaker 1: see you on love in hip hop. If I would
Speaker 1: have had you as a kid, Jesus, but I'm so
Speaker 1: thankful that I had you as a grown man. I
Speaker 1: know that there's not enough and there you still are
Speaker 1: tokenized in so many ways, But I have to tell you,
Speaker 1: even though you are that one and there should be more,
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful that you are the one than you
Speaker 1: of mine. Seriously, thank you. I have to give you
Speaker 1: all the credit in the world as well. I remember
Speaker 1: one of the most important moments in my career was
Speaker 1: performing with you on stage in The American Wife Lives
Speaker 1: Like you. Always make sure to give that credit to
Speaker 1: everyone because it takes a team to make those performances happen,
Speaker 1: and within that team there were people like us. And
Speaker 1: even though that I was very young, I shall always
Speaker 1: be great. Thank you. But you know what's funny, I
Speaker 1: thought it was us, I know, sharing our African traditions
Speaker 1: and are such a part of who we are, and
Speaker 1: to me, that's celebratory. You don't know. Because how impactful
Speaker 1: certain moments can be for people. Peopoth are gonna be
Speaker 1: amount of the role models for the next generation. What
Speaker 1: do you tell them? You go first, be patient with
Speaker 1: yourself and love every part of who you are. And
Speaker 1: it might take a little bit longer because of the
Speaker 1: negative things you've been hearing your entire life, But know
Speaker 1: that it's up to you to love yourself and to
Speaker 1: see the beauty even if your family, your culture, or
Speaker 1: the world around you does not make you feel like
Speaker 1: it is okay to love who you are and except
Speaker 1: who you are. I would say, I don't get the
Speaker 1: way I see and I would say more, I don't
Speaker 1: get the way I see anything me embrace your negativedude,
Speaker 1: embrace it, understand it, see it as a power. God
Speaker 1: blessed you with melanin melanin is a power. Understand that
Speaker 1: the world shall come against you, and you need to
Speaker 1: be prepared for whatever is to come. Don't let anyone
Speaker 1: anyone makes you feel that you're less than That's the
Speaker 1: most important thing, because when you have education, you have power.
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out Drink Chance, your number one
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Speaker 1: O r E and dj f N sat down with
Speaker 1: artists and icon Yea, which Vulture called one of most
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Speaker 1: correspondent with an expertise and the science of stress, resilience,
Speaker 1: mental health, and burnout. We're so excited to share our
Speaker 1: podcast Time Out, a production of I Heeart Podcasts and
Speaker 1: Hell of Sunshine. We're uncovering why society makes it so
Speaker 1: hard for women to treat their time with the value
Speaker 1: it deserves. So take this time out with us. Listen
Speaker 1: to Time Out, a fair play podcast on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is Roxande Gay, host of the Roxanne Gay Agenda.
Speaker 1: The Bad Women is podcast of your dreams. Now what
Speaker 1: is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, you might ask what. It's
Speaker 1: a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind about
Speaker 1: what's on my mind, and that could be anything. Every
Speaker 1: week I will be in conversation with an interesting person
Speaker 1: who has something to say. We're going to talk about feminism, race,
Speaker 1: writing in books, and art, food, pop culture, and yes, politics.
Speaker 1: I started show with a recommendation. Really, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to share with you a movie or a book, or
Speaker 1: maybe some music or a comedy side something that I
Speaker 1: really want you to be aware of and maybe engage
Speaker 1: with as well. Listen to the Luminary original podcast The
Speaker 1: Roxanne Gay Agenda. The Bad Feminist Podcast of Your Dreams
Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. I want to bring out
Speaker 1: somebody that gave you your power. Mommy. Yes. Amas. Dominican
Speaker 1: mother Anna Oliaga overcame many obstacles to help Ama pursue
Speaker 1: her dreams. She saw the discrimination young Amra faced and
Speaker 1: taught her to love herself by confronting racism head on.
Speaker 1: The fact that you created is importants like any no no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: She's real. She's real. That pain that you carry is
Speaker 1: what's going to make a difference for the people you
Speaker 1: talk to. Because you lived it in your own skin.
Speaker 1: You have something to share that Hey she did this.
Speaker 1: Look at this. You know you're proud. Thank you for
Speaker 1: being here and being so honest and being that forced
Speaker 1: and nature that you are a woman. This is very
Speaker 1: in a hidden that's good so they know it's real.
Speaker 1: It's real. On the right thing. Dctor Elizabeth George Freeman
Speaker 1: has spent her life studying the effects of prejudice and
Speaker 1: racism towards a latinos throughout the US and Latin America.
Speaker 1: Welcome Dr Freeman. We're so happy to have you for all.
Speaker 1: I am just so excited to be part of the table.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to their stories, yes, I'm sure your
Speaker 1: brain is exploding with so many facts and statistics and
Speaker 1: things connections, please enlighten us. Listening to both Amata stories
Speaker 1: and Karamo stories. In many ways, they resonate with the
Speaker 1: patterns and trends that we see across Latin America and
Speaker 1: across the United States. With a latinos it's the conversation
Speaker 1: about the journey learning and unlearning, right, so learning your history,
Speaker 1: learning to own who you are, learning to own your body,
Speaker 1: but also to unlearn some of the negative anti black
Speaker 1: attitudes that are expressed in families and seen in broader society.
Speaker 1: And even when we talk about family, oftentimes families are
Speaker 1: making decisions about who to invest in because they're thinking
Speaker 1: about who's the better investment shot, who's the best shot.
Speaker 1: And there were a number of cases where you have
Speaker 1: mothers oftentimes treating their children differently based on what they
Speaker 1: look like and what that would translate into with differences
Speaker 1: and how children were eating, where they went to school,
Speaker 1: if they went to private versus public school. You also
Speaker 1: had a case where it wasn't just mothers. There was
Speaker 1: a father who literally gave away his three darker scant
Speaker 1: daughters to raise his lighter scanned daughters. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was a it was a pretty brutal situation, trauma, and
Speaker 1: how can we listen to that discrimination and families dressers
Speaker 1: are away. So education is part of that, but that
Speaker 1: treatment is connected to the broader social structure. Right, So
Speaker 1: this isn't about fixing families. It's about fixing our society
Speaker 1: because in so much of the conversation about discrimination and colorism,
Speaker 1: we focus so much on color, and I just want
Speaker 1: to make sure we recognize that it's not just color.
Speaker 1: It's hair, it's features, it's lit, it's it's all. It's
Speaker 1: this constellation of racial features that shape people's outcomes. And
Speaker 1: that's in the crux of my work is to understand
Speaker 1: and unpack how that plays out in people's lives. What's
Speaker 1: the difference between race and this is a really great question. No,
Speaker 1: let me explain what race and ethnicity are. Both of
Speaker 1: these categories are, first of all, constructed categories. Humans made
Speaker 1: these categories, and what they mean actually varies depending on
Speaker 1: what country you're coming from. So I feel like I
Speaker 1: have to say that upfront, these are not kind of
Speaker 1: objective categories. But when we talk about race, we're typically
Speaker 1: talking about physical features, whereas ethnicity refers to culture, it
Speaker 1: refers to language, it refers to kind of people's social experiences,
Speaker 1: and it's often connected to geographic area. The other question
Speaker 1: that people sometimes ask is how does nationality fit with this?
Speaker 1: Then if that's raised and that's ethnicity, nationality is just
Speaker 1: about your legal identity, where do you have your citizenship.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes folks they mix up all three of these terms.
Speaker 1: They don't understand that Latinos are a pretty heterogeneous group
Speaker 1: that consists of lots of different racial categories. Okay, so wait,
Speaker 1: so I race for Cuban. Okay, so let's let's break
Speaker 1: it down. Are you a Cuban citizen? Now, so you
Speaker 1: are American American? Yeah, okay? And then race, well, you're raised.
Speaker 1: What is your race? She's part Lebanese parts. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about physical features. How are you read here in
Speaker 1: the United States? I would like her to say that
Speaker 1: you are white. You're white. You are white. I am white,
Speaker 1: she is white. We are white. Now you're ethnicity, You're
Speaker 1: you're clearly Latina. Right, this is. This is part of
Speaker 1: what we're here to talk about. But even that category
Speaker 1: is interesting because some Latinos feel like, well, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily want to be just subsumed in this Latino category,
Speaker 1: because in some ways that Latino ethnicity subsumes Costa Rica, Nicaragua,
Speaker 1: Dominican Republic. All these categories are just thrown into this
Speaker 1: Latino ethnicity. It's a convenience that we created. The issue
Speaker 1: becomes that folks don't see black folks as equal because
Speaker 1: they don't have the opportunity to see us possibing at
Speaker 1: the same level. Those are the game to they are
Speaker 1: today that by the way, I wish that we could
Speaker 1: continue this conversation all day, me too. But the words
Speaker 1: I'm taking away from this communication love and unity and
Speaker 1: support for each other and allies. Thank you, God, amo Amada,
Speaker 1: Dr Horge Freeman for sharing your stories. This is a
Speaker 1: tough conversation that we need to continue to have in
Speaker 1: order for things to change. So thank you for being
Speaker 1: here and for pouring out your hearts to us. And
Speaker 1: we want to end this Red Table with a special
Speaker 1: performance by my beautiful Emily singing her song I just
Speaker 1: wanted to be over it's one of my favorites that
Speaker 1: she's ever written. In college, I had an experience with
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who was dark skinned. We went
Speaker 1: to eat in a restaurant, got our food to then
Speaker 1: which the waitress came over and said, you guys need
Speaker 1: to go. You're not welcome to eat here. And I
Speaker 1: literally was like why, and she looked at my friend
Speaker 1: and touched her skin, and um. It really made me
Speaker 1: feel the need to use my voice and put my
Speaker 1: anger from that experience on paper and try to get
Speaker 1: it to as many people as possible to show that
Speaker 1: not only my an ally, but this is bothersome and
Speaker 1: we need to speak up as human beings. H m hm.
Speaker 1: A forward dreams made believe moving on with something we
Speaker 1: ad to come to terms with the absurd. He is
Speaker 1: from freedom, yet somehow it stirred fifty two twenty new
Speaker 1: guts are in numbers in between. When will the jest
Speaker 1: reveal it's an equating triumph with the color of a skin.
Speaker 1: I just find it to be over. I just find
Speaker 1: it to be to be through. I just want it
Speaker 1: to be over, I to be to be foo. Hey,
Speaker 1: it's me family tree blue with lighter fluid on my greens.
Speaker 1: I hide the roots aground me to this earth. I
Speaker 1: fear the only predetermined gives a bird. It's not too later,
Speaker 1: right their arms of fame forgetful linc the only Manda
Speaker 1: Lame increases suon. That's focusing. Raise your girls to feed
Speaker 1: my t you know, looks to be about to be frulb.
Speaker 1: It's rude. I just want to the love. I just
Speaker 1: want to be fool us rude. M just you just
Speaker 1: want to be all, to be true, to be thrue.
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be all, to be true,
Speaker 1: to be to be through, to be through, to be through,
Speaker 1: to be through. Thanks for listening. To join the Red
Speaker 1: Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation,
Speaker 1: follow us at Facebook dot com, forward Slash, red table Talk, Steffens.
Speaker 1: Red Table Talk via Steffunds is a production of Westbrook
Speaker 1: Studios in partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart, visit the I Heart
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