1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In the last hours, we 2 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: have obtained crime scene photos and yes, we are also 3 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: calling it a crime scene from the early morning discovery 4 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: of the body of teen boy Stephen Smith, and we're 5 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: to go through those with you today. What if anything 6 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: can we learn from these photos. At the same time, 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: we learned that at the time a rape kit was 8 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: ordered for teen boy Stephen Smith. Why in an alleged 9 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: hit and run would a rape kit be ordered on 10 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: a young male teen This as the items belonging to 11 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: Alex Verlag and his family I've been auctioned off on 12 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: the blot bringing in millions and in that treasure trove 13 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: were photos that have been saved digitally, personal family photos. 14 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: All the while the appeal is being tooled. As we speak, 15 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: Alex Murnag wants out of jail. I mean, I see grace. 16 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 17 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and serious XM one eleven. For 18 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: those of you that don't remember or have not heard it, 19 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's nine one one call in the middle of 20 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: the night. Listen and it didn't road or on the 21 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: side of the rule eating rule would rule bear all right? 22 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: What's the name of combat number? A murder ran paper? Okay, 23 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: all right, miss keeper? Can I get a phone number 24 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: for you? Uh? I don't know them? Thought this formbo 25 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: can call the number back going to work? Okay, but 26 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: this is a good number to reach you back at Yeah, okay, 27 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: all right, we're getting off the headed out that we 28 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: see what's going on? Okay, r I ain't moving another 29 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: that that but somebody boy eating it? Huh, all right 30 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: boy eating all right, we're getting off the headed out 31 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: that way. I only wondered if that was not the 32 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: intention to leave Stephen Smith's body dead in the very 33 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: middle of the road a back road in South Carolina, 34 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: no street lights, no lighting nearby, so it would get 35 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: run over again? Was that the intention? I was driven 36 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: those roads, and they are as dark as you can imagine. 37 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: If I were not in my car, I wouldn't been 38 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: able to see my hand in front of my face. 39 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: But take a listen to WCSC and the former South 40 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: carol Line. A Highway patrol supervisor. Smith's car was found 41 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: about three miles away on Bamberg Highway. It won't start, 42 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: but investigators find his wallet inside the gas cap. Also unscrewed. 43 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: His family reports he would have never left the car, 44 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: calling him skittish, and his twin sister, Stephanie, also tells 45 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: authorities that her brother had become very secretive about two 46 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: weeks prior to the incident. As many accident investigations that 47 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: have we that you know I've done along with the team, 48 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, we've done several pedestrians where they're hit by 49 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: cars and have I've never seen wounds like this that 50 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: come from a car. And it was evident and with 51 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: other evidence that was there and that we saw looked at, 52 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: with the body and all in totality, it did not 53 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: make us make sense why they were calling this a 54 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: traffic accident and why on this particular occasion was a 55 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: rape kit ordered and a hit and run. Take listen 56 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: to Fox Hat. No, I have no answers for you 57 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: for why they would order a rape kit for a 58 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: what would be suspected as a hit and run, which 59 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't. Retired South Carolina Highway Trooper Michael Duncan says 60 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: he was headed to the scene where Stephen Smith was found, 61 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: but was later called up, something he still finds confusing. 62 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: I did not have an understanding of why I was 63 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: being ordered. We were not notified until later that it 64 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: had been ordered. The rape kit hours after Smith's death. 65 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: The latest development days after Sled announced he would treat 66 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: the death as a homicide. Smith family attorney Ronnie Richter says, 67 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: the question now, can the test be located now? With 68 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: the results of the rape kit showed? I have no idea, 69 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: nor do I know if that evidence was preserved and 70 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: it still available today, but I do know that it 71 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: was gathered. Am I the only one that just heard? 72 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can find the rape kit? 73 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: Can the rape kit be located? I have covered cases 74 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: that were fifty years old and older where DNA from 75 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: a rape kit was used to crack a cold murder. 76 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: Locate the rape kit? Joining me is Jennifer Wood, director 77 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 1: of research at fitnews dot com. You can find Jennifer 78 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Indie gen Underscore. Jennifer, It's great to 79 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: have you on. You know FIT has been on this 80 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Fits Jennifer, What do they mean 81 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: if they can locate the rape kit? It's the craziest 82 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen, first that they even took one 83 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: in what they claim to have a hit and run, 84 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: and second that it's just disappeared. So we're talking about eminence. 85 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: Where's the chain of custody? Where is where did this 86 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: end up? I'm just overwhelmed, you know. Let me first 87 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: go to renown forensic pathologist, medical examiner and lucky for 88 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: US detective and author of homicide investigation Field Guy. This 89 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: woman literally wrote the book. We're also going to be 90 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: joined by Eric Bland, who has led the crusade along 91 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: with Steven Smith's mother to have his body exhumed these 92 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: years later to find the truth, which is a crying shame. 93 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: Then the mom has to go on go fund me 94 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: and raise money to find the truth about her son's death. 95 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: For eight years, she's been screaming into the wind, my 96 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: son was murdered, My son was murdered. And finally somebody 97 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: hears it. You know. Doctor at Michelle Dupree with me, 98 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: and this is her jurisdiction. She's joining us with South Carolina. 99 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: A rape kit on a hit and run. Now, that 100 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: tells me there was something about this body that led 101 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: them to believe they should do a rape kit. Were 102 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm just going to be blunt. Where Steven Smith's pants 103 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: pulled down were they on backwards? Was he missing underwear? 104 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: Is underwear on backwards? Was there blood or abrasion visual 105 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: abrasions around his rectum? What would lead out of the 106 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: blue on a hit and run on a young male? 107 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: What would lead to a rape kit? Nancy? As you know, 108 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: we do sexual assault kits on many victims, male and female. 109 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: But under these circumstances, yes, this is unusual to me. 110 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: I think it more speaks to maybe the uncertainty of 111 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: the pathologists that this may not have been a hit 112 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: and run and therefore just covering her bases. But I 113 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: can't explain it for a hit and run. Okay, wait, well, 114 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: wall Wait, So you find a guy in the street 115 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: and it's fully closed and it's a hit and run, 116 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: it's obviously a hit and run where there's skid marks, 117 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: there's glass on the ground, you can tell from his body, 118 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: there are paint particles off the car on him. You're 119 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: telling me you do a rape kit on that, No, Nansie, 120 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: I said that this is unusual to do a rape 121 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: kit on something like this. We do them, you know, 122 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: on males and females for other reasons, but in this case, yeah, 123 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: Well you started saying, well, we often do rape kits 124 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: on men and women to make it. We deemed that 125 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: this was sop standard operating procedure. But it's not. I 126 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: know that much, and I'm just a JD. It's not. 127 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: Depending on the circumstances, depending on where that body is 128 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: found and other circumstances surrounding that death, we often do 129 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: them on those victims. In this case, however, if we 130 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: do suspect that it really is a hit and run, no, 131 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: that's very, very unusual. But what this leads me to 132 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: belief is that perhaps the pathologists ordered this to cover 133 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: the basis because maybe maybe she wasn't quite so sure 134 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: that this was really a hit and run. Well, the 135 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: pathologist is digging her heels in on why she said 136 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: it was a hit and run she did. Eric Bland, 137 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: I can smell a rat. I can smell a rat. 138 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: Guys with me a high profile lawyer who practices all 139 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: over but is located in South Carolina geographically. He's the 140 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: founding partner of Bland Rict Attorneys at Law. He is 141 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: also representing Sandy Smith and her crusade for justice for 142 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: her son Stephen Smith, and the Gloria Sadderfield family. As 143 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: you will recall Gloria Sadderfield, a woman in the prime 144 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: of her life and her fifties, who have been the 145 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: housekeeper for the Murdoch family for years and years and years, 146 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: helped raise Buster Murdog and Paul Murdog who is now dead. 147 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: She is a dead at the foot of their stairs 148 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: as well. That became a focal point during the Alex 149 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: Murdog double murder trial. Eric Bland, I hear what doctor 150 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: Duprey is saying, but I am telling you there is 151 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: a rat in this. You do not do a rape 152 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: kit on a hit and run, you are correct. I 153 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: think what happened is they somebody at the scene recognized 154 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: Stephen and knew that he was a young, gay, adult 155 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: male kid. And because they wouldn't have gotten to his 156 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: car by the time they got to him, that the 157 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: nine one one call went to him where he was 158 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: in the road, so no one would have already gone 159 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: and looked in the car. Remember, his wallet was in 160 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: the car, so he wouldn't have had any identification on him, 161 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: so somebody had to have known. It was Stephen Smith 162 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: at the accident scene who have said, you know what 163 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: we got to do? A rape kit fled was the 164 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: one that gathered the evidence. Okay, then wait a minute, 165 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: Aaron Wyang, you're saying, oh, he's gay, less do a 166 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: rape kit. That doesn't make sense to me either. Just 167 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: because a man is gay, that doesn't mean you're going 168 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: to do a rate kit. I understand. But him not 169 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: having any identification on him, played in the middle of 170 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: the road where he was angled, and just the injuries 171 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: that he sustained, somebody must have recognized him as being 172 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith. That's the only plausible explanation I could come 173 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: up with. Okay, well, you know, I typically agree with 174 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: you on a lot of things. Not everything, obviously, but 175 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: a lot of things. But just because you say that's 176 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith, let's do a rape kit, that's a non sequitur. 177 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: Oh I plead guilty. I threw some Latin at you. 178 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: It doesn't follow. That doesn't make sense. For instance, I 179 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: see Jackie walking through the studio and I say, you 180 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: know what, I'm calling nine one one because I think 181 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: you just did a grand larceny. That doesn't even make 182 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: any sense. He's Stephen Smith, Let's do a rape kit. No, 183 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: in Oh, there was something wrong with that body, There 184 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: was something wrong with the way his pants were on, 185 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: his underwear was on, something around his private parts or 186 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: his mouth. Something made them do a rape kit, because 187 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: a rape kit, correct me if I'm wrong, Doctor Duprie, 188 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: is not standard operating procedure unless you have a reason 189 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: to suspect it should be done. That's right, Ny. But again, 190 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: if we look at that totality of circumstances, and as 191 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: Eric said, you know, this is an unknown homosexual young 192 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: man found in the middle of the road, A lot 193 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: of people, even at the scene of the crime, do 194 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: not believe this is a hit and run. There is 195 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: suspicion from the very beginning. Yes, yeah, And Nancy, if 196 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: is this Chris mcdonnah speaking, Yes, ma'am. Hey, Chris, guys, 197 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna is joining US, director of the Cold Case Foundation, 198 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: former homicide detective, host of the YouTube channel the interview 199 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: in where I first found him back on the Coburger case, 200 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: and you can find him at Coldcase Foundation dot org. 201 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Chris, So, Nancy, we've all a lot of 202 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: folks have been commenting about, you know, this hit and 203 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: run situation in terms of his shoes, you're getting knocked off, etc. 204 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: But if we take a closer look at the shoes. 205 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: Go ahead, let's talk about the shoes. What do you say. Okay, 206 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: So if we look at the bottom of the shoes, 207 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: we see wet mud and dried mud on the side. 208 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: That tells us if you go to the top of 209 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: the shoe on the bottom, if there's a smooth part 210 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: of that mud. It's very smooth if you zoom in 211 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: on it. And if you look at that and then 212 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: compare that. Wait a minute, Wait a minute. We're on 213 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: the bottom of his left shoe. The entire shoe bottom 214 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: has mud all over it. I see that. It's compact. 215 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: It's compacted. It's covering up the tread. I see it, yes, ma'am. 216 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: And so if you go towards the top, they're the 217 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: front of his foot, you see where it's smooth yep. 218 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: Now that is really interesting because if you look at 219 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: the texture of the roadway, you would think you would 220 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: have an impression of that texture in that wet mud, 221 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: and it's not there. So that made me start thinking about, Okay, 222 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: does this theory of placement a second area where this 223 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: actually occurred to Eric's point earlier, I would submit to 224 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: you these shoes are a huge clue to that secondary 225 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: area of where which we would call the first crime 226 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: scene potentially. You know what, you just are giving me 227 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: so much information, and you're right because wherever he walked, 228 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: he definitely left a shoe tread absolutely because you can 229 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: see on the bottom off his foot. That's pretty brilliant, 230 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, that's a great observation. You're taking something that 231 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: seems ordinary and you have now gleamed and a very 232 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: important clue. We look at the top of the shoe 233 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: as well. It appears to be wet in the front 234 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: and dried in the back on both of those shoes. 235 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: There has to be a water shore somewhere around these shoes. Okay, 236 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: what about an airing bland. I think Chris is spot on. 237 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: I think that they're looking at the wrong crime scene. 238 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: I think the crime scene happened somewhere else, whether it 239 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: happened where his car was evidently broken down or made 240 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: to look broke down, that is where the crime scene was. 241 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: I would like to have known where they're tire tracks 242 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: that were taken, not just Steven's tracks, but just did 243 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: a car pull up behind because they would have had 244 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: to stop to push the car or put it over there. 245 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: Where it was or hit him where he was. So 246 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: for me, I'm totally agreeing with doctor Dupree, m with Chris. 247 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: I think that there was enough evidence there, like you 248 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: talked about the abrasions in the erectam area, or blood 249 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: seeping or body fluid seeping, enough that somebody put two 250 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: and two together and said, we know this kid. There's 251 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: no identification on him, which is really strange. At four 252 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. Somebody must ordered the rape kid. 253 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: As I told you, sled gathered the evidence, but it 254 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: was Highway Patrol. They conducted the investigation and corresponded with 255 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: the pathology. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here. Join us now 256 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: on Fox Nation for our brand new special, Children of 257 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: Serial Killers, a Nancy Grace investigation. Parents by day, killers 258 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: by night? But what about the sons and daughters of 259 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: brutal murderers? Are they forever haunted by their parents crimes? 260 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: What happens when they find out mommy or Daddy's a killer? 261 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: In this new special, we investigate the lives of children 262 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: of serial killers, weaving the timelines of the parents crimes 263 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: into their home lives. Speaking directly with sons and daughters 264 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: of serial killers, including the children of the Craigslist Killer, 265 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: the Chameleon Killer, and more we hear from experts in 266 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: the field. Don't miss this. Join us now for children 267 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: of serial killers and Nancy Grace investigations streaming exclusively on Foxnation. 268 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: Go to Foxnation dot com to watch crime stories with 269 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm just putting it out there. If they've 270 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: lost the right kit, we're screwed. But another technical legal term, 271 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: but Eric Bland, I've had a lot of cases, and 272 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: I recall one in particular. The murderers happened when I 273 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: was in law school. By the time my finished law 274 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: school finished a clerk shook with a judge, finished my 275 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: time in an antitrust division at the Federal Trade Commission, 276 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: and made it to the DA's office and try cases 277 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: for a couple of years. And he gone all the 278 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: way up to the eleventh Circuit and come back down 279 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: for a retrial. When I went to go find the evidence, 280 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: you know what I found, Bland. I found one X 281 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: ray I had no idea what it meant, and a 282 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: hat that said kiss my bass, Oh my good. That 283 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: was all the evidence that was found. Why because the 284 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: evidence room had moved twice during that time and evidence 285 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: had been lost. I was lucky to find a hat. Frankly, 286 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: as it turned out, it was an important piece of 287 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: evidence that said you can try a case without the 288 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: original evidence. You can, But wouldn't it be great to 289 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: have that rape kit? So since shivers down my spine 290 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood, director research fitsnews dot com, who's been all 291 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: over the Merdle cases the very beginning. Fantastic coverage, Jennifer. 292 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: So would it be highway patrol or would it be 293 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: SLED that submitted the rape kit? So it looks like 294 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: I mean, looking at the chain of custody, it looks 295 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: like it's a flood agent had the rape kit last? 296 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: Oh boy? When I hear somebody say who had it last? 297 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: That sounds like me with the twins. Okay, who saw 298 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: it last? That is not scientific at all, So, Nancy, 299 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: typically the pathologist is going to perform the rape kit. Yeah, 300 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: they will. Then they will then start that chain of 301 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: custody and turn it over to law enforcement. Our rpe 302 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: kits here in South Carolina all go to SLED and 303 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: they're kept there until hopefully needed at some point in time. 304 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: You know what, That's why I love you that amongst 305 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: so many other things online on Twitter. They love you, 306 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: doctor Dupre because apparently of your hair, But I love 307 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: you because of the smart things you say all the time. 308 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: So you're telling me, at the Medical Examiner's Office of 309 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: South Carolina, rape kits go to SLED, whether highway patrol 310 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: initiated the investigation or not, rape kits go to SLED. 311 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: Is that right? Well, I'm telling you yes, sir. The pathologist, 312 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: the physician is the one who performs the rape kit 313 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: right then turns it over to law enforcement, either local 314 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: law enforcement or whoever is attending the autopsy at the time. 315 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: It eventually winds its way up to SLED because that 316 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: is our state laboratory that does the DNA testing for 317 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: rape kits in our state. Well, there you go. I've 318 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: got an idea where Jennifer Wood is going to be 319 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: this afternoon. I heard somebody else breaking in. Eric, Yeah, hey, Eric, 320 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: I want to go to listen to Brian Darr with me. 321 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: Senior forensic Engineer, expert with forensics. You can find him 322 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: and many places, but one is tire expert dot com. 323 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: He has done so many reconstructions. He knows how to 324 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: find the evidence. My fear, Brian darr Are is based 325 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: on what Chris mcdonnah has found on the bottom of 326 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: the shoes of Steven Smith. We may never get that 327 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: evidence now if they didn't do footprint evidence like we 328 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: just did in Coburg. Remember the shoe prints that were 329 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: found inside the crime scene where the four young students 330 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: were murdered. There was a footprint. Remember it was taken immediately, 331 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: But I didn't hear anything about footprints or tar tracks 332 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: being taken around Steven Smith's car where it was abandoned. Yeah, 333 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: documentation is key. I mean, if they didn't document that 334 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: because they didn't suspect it at the time, it would 335 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: be very, very difficult to obviously find it. Now, what 336 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: are you make of what Chris mcdonnah said about the 337 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: bottom of Steven smith shoes. They're definitely muddy. That very 338 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: good observation, and it's packed in dar that mud is 339 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: I would agree. Yeah, he left some very good prints 340 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: and from what we can see in these crime scene photos, 341 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: they're not there on the road. The road is blacktop. 342 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: Let's look at the photos, guys. Let's look. We've got 343 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: seventeen photos to look at. Everybody with me. The first 344 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: one is Steven Smith bright yellow car. Do you see that, 345 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Eric Bland, I do. It's right on the side of 346 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: the road right there. That is where he could have 347 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: left those prints when he got out. See the soil 348 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: right there, and you can, oh my goodness. Look to 349 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,959 Speaker 1: the passenger side of the car. Are those tar tracks 350 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: right there? I can't tell right to the right, yeah, 351 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: the front passenger side. I'm wondering if go ahead, jump in. 352 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: You know what we could be done here, Nancy. Still, 353 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: if they still have the shoes, they can scrape that 354 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: mud and get a botanist in there and see if 355 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: that vegetation area or the mud area is consistent with 356 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: the mud on the bar them of those shoes. We 357 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: I did that in a case a body dump in 358 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: the It was a mountain, and we took all the 359 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: air filters out of the guy's car and matched it 360 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: to the area, the vegetation area. So it's still possible 361 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: they could connect the shoes back to that car, to 362 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: your point around that side of the car. If that's 363 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: if that's in play. The only problem that we don't 364 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: I don't know where the clothes are. If they have 365 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: the clothes, I'm supposed to find that out from sled 366 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: if they have Steven's clothes, the tan shorts, the black 367 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: shirt and all that he was wearing. Doctor Michelle Joy 368 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: is with me forensic, clinical and academic psychiatrist, author of 369 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: and illustrated history of the insanity defense. And you can 370 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: find doctor Michelle Joy at West Philly Morbid Art. Doctor Joy, 371 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: thiser being with us, What must this be doing to 372 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: Steven Smith's mother as she hearing discussions about, oh, did 373 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: they lose the rape kit? Did they even keep the clothes? 374 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so marginalizes her son's life. I 375 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: mean entirely, and just building on the comment that I 376 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: think you had made earlier that she had been trying 377 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: to get attention to this matter. You know for years 378 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: there is never really you know, an appropriate grieving process 379 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: or sense of closure yet and then all of this 380 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: coming up that there's these loose ends that they might 381 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: have been treated appropriately, you know, but just wasn't right. 382 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: There are all these kind of things that have happened 383 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: in the past that she might not ever know, or 384 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: she might you know in some sense. But I think 385 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: it's re traumatizing an already traumatic situation that she never 386 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: heals from. It's one long, extended loss with repeat impult 387 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: over and over. It's how I'm seeing it. To just 388 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: think about the rape kit. Wow, who saw it last? 389 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: That just stops me in my tracks. That is so 390 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: off standard procedure. Who saw it last? There is a 391 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: very intricate chain of custody attached to evidence from a 392 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: crime scene. I'll give you an example. I had a 393 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: guy who's a serial killer, but we could get him 394 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: on one murder and that's all it took. I needed 395 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: as a DNA. Guess what, the homicide detective, who was 396 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: a great detective for some reason, did not sign the 397 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: back of the Manila folder when he sealed it with 398 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: a DNA inside and took it to the crime lab. 399 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: I realized that a week before trial. One week one week, 400 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: we went straight back to the jail. I watched them 401 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: take the DNA at the jail through a glass window. 402 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: The defendant was just looking at me. I looked right 403 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: back at him. He can rotten hell. And drove with 404 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: the investigator back to the crime lab and had it 405 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: redone same result. But that said, you can lose a 406 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: case that way. Who saw it last? Guys, Let's go 407 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: to the next picture, because this is so desolate and 408 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: I want doctor Joy the way in on this. It's 409 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: across the street from Steven Smith's yellow car. It's a 410 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: huge cornfield. Has anybody ever been in the middle of 411 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: a cornfield? You can't see anything, you can't find your 412 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: way out. That's why they make mazes out of them 413 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: at Halloween time. You go in the cornfield and try 414 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: to find your way out. That's not fun. The Twins 415 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: and nine, he only went Bissert when we went to 416 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: a cornfield. Eric Bland, you're familiar with this stretch of road. 417 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: This is right across the street from where Steven Smith's 418 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: car is found, right, correct. What a desolate night that 419 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: must have been, Doctor Michelle Joy. It's two or three 420 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. He runs out of gas across 421 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: from this cornfield. He had a cell phone, Doctor Joy. 422 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: Why not use a cell phone instead of leaving his 423 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: id behind and taking out setting out on foot? Exactly? 424 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: None of that makes sense with the facts that we have. 425 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: And just looking at that second photo there, I mean, 426 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: there's almost an eerie cinematic quality to it. And this 427 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: is a day right, so just imagining, you know, this 428 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: person leaving on foot to in any sense, I think 429 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: that would be right for getting gas, getting help. You 430 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: know anything, We have no you know, prior history that 431 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: he wasn't making sense at the time, or had you know, 432 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: any kind of break of his cognition or emotions that 433 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: he was acting irrationally. Right, we have none of that evidence. 434 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: I would say, Oh, he made this odd decision at 435 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: this time, and just looking at that picture, you just 436 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: really get a sense that that is not the decision 437 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: that a functional rational person would make to leave without 438 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: an idea, without a phone on that stretch of road. 439 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: And Jackie here wants to know, how are you going 440 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: to buy gas without your wallet or your or any money? Hey, 441 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood joining us from fitznews dot com. Was the 442 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: scene around his car processed? Was there blood there? Did 443 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: he have a cell phone on him? And was it cracked? Jennifer, So, 444 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: his cell phone was on him, it was not cracked. 445 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: I do believe they did do some processing of the 446 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: scene around the car, I mean, just based on looking 447 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: at the crime scene photos. I mean they did have 448 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: it taped off. But to the extent of whether or 449 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: not they did tire track impressions, shoe impressions, I don't 450 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: believe they did, because Sandy said afterwards that she went 451 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: back and alerted them that she had seen some shoeprints. 452 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: Eric Bland, what can you tell me about Steven Smith 453 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: telling friends or family just before his death that he 454 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: was going deep sea fishing. Was someone that was loaded 455 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: and had a lot of money, and he couldn't say 456 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: their name. Yeah, that you are stating exactly what Stephanie 457 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: and Sandy, Stephanie's twin sister said. Stephen was very secretive. 458 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: Stephen did not talk about his you know, friendships with 459 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: other men. It just wasn't something that's Sandy pressed he did. 460 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: He did tell her a week and a half before 461 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: the murder that he was going to go fishing with 462 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: a very prominent person. Is the word you use? Prominent? 463 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: And Sandy did inquire and said who isn't He said, 464 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: I can't tell you. You may find out in due time. 465 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: And you know, I think when I meet with Chief 466 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: Keel there a lie came off of his phone and 467 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: they're they're about to crack I think his tablet, his iPad, 468 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: and Chief Kiel told me that there was typical things 469 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: that you would expect from a nineteen year old sexually 470 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: active young man, So that means either heterosexual or homosexual. Look, 471 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: it's a different age for us, but nineteen year olds 472 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: evidently chair photos of body parts and stuff like that. 473 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: That's what I took from what Chief Kiel told me 474 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: that they've they've gathered from the phone. So I think 475 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: this case is going to be sobbd by phone evidence, 476 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: by computer emails, both pre and post death. I think 477 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: is going to indicate a lot. So you're saying that 478 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: there's a tablet and a phone, imply yes, you mean 479 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: an iPad. Yeah, I don't know whether it's an iPad 480 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: or another type of tab Hey, listen again, Eric Bland. 481 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: I know you run in rarefied circles there at the 482 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: bar Association. But again, this is not a high tea 483 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: at Windsor Castle. People send nudes to each other, all right, 484 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: don't care. I only care if I can identify the 485 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: last few nudes sent Stephen Smith. I remember. Let me 486 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: just give an example. Michael Jackson, one of the young 487 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: boys could identify his penis because of discoloration in his 488 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: growing area. Anybody remember that it was just me I do. 489 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: So if they're there is a body part on Steven 490 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: Smith's phone, they can be identified to a living person. 491 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: They're in trouble. I'm telling you that right now, especially 492 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: if it was around the time of his death. Guys, 493 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: the next photo, Oh, hey, so they've already tapped into it, 494 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: Eric Blam. We don't need somebody from the Secret Service 495 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: like we had to do in Murlock to get into 496 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: Paul's phone. Now we've given the phone's crack, we've given 497 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: what we think would be his codes for the tablet. 498 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: Told by Chief Keel that they're getting close. They've had 499 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: it on a cycle and evidently if you try to 500 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: crack the code and fifteen times, yeah, there's a shutdown period. 501 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: But they're going to crack the code. He's very comfident 502 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: they're going to crack it. And when I was writing 503 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: my last book, Don't be a victim, you know a 504 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: huge percentage of people still do one two three four 505 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: or one one one one or two two two two 506 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: something like their birthday. Yeah, a lot, they're going to 507 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: crack it. Hey, guys, let's look at a picture number three. 508 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: It's just law enforcement lined up there along the highway 509 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: for also, but you see the desolation in the area, 510 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: very rural area. Let's continue on. You also see in 511 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: the next photo how far away from the woods the 512 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: car would have been. Very close to the woods. Let's 513 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: move forward one, two, three. You see the scene blocked 514 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: off with yellow tape. Now I'm curious, let me ask 515 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: Jennifer joining us Jennifer Wood, director Research Fits News. The 516 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: photo where the yellow crime scene tape is stretched across 517 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: the road, is that going to be where his car 518 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: was found or his body was found? So I it 519 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: looks to me like that's where the car was found. Agree, 520 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: because in the next photo you see two crime scene tapes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, 521 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna be. I was gonna say the 522 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: side of the road doesn't look as sandy as it 523 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: did in the original picture, but it actually does between 524 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: the grass I can see. I think you're right, Jennifer. Guys, 525 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: let's move forward to a book found on the front 526 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,479 Speaker 1: seat in Steven Smith's car, Human Anatomy and Physiology. Jennifer, 527 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: wasn't he studying to be a nurse? Yes, he was 528 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: going to orge Orangeburg Technical College studying to be a nurse. 529 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: And I believe he did have classes that night and 530 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: was coming home from classes. The next photo you see 531 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: the interior of his car. To Chris mcdonne, a former 532 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: homicide detective, host of the Interview Room, what would you 533 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: look for inside that car? Well, you would want to 534 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: look for any type of evidence that would point towards 535 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: a struggle and or transfer of any type, either fluid forensic. 536 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: When I say forensic transfer, what I mean by that 537 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: is any digital devices left inside there from a potential suspect. 538 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: You want to look for any type of fingerprint evidence. 539 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: A lot of times you can look on the back 540 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: side of the mirror and if somebody had adjusted it. 541 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: You want to see what the seat position is if 542 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: somebody drove that car and he was a potential passenger, 543 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: and so those are the kind of things you want 544 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: to be checking out, han't you. Guys? Move forward two 545 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: or three photos and you get to the passenger side 546 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: of Steven Smith's car and you see the gas the 547 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: gas tank open. Does that make sense to you, Eric Bland, 548 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: Now it doesn't because it's not even on the car side. 549 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: It's not even on the roadside. You know, when we 550 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: were drawing up, we had antennas that came from the 551 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: hood in our cars, and if you broke down, you 552 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: would put like a white handkerchief for something white on it. 553 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: But that doesn't make sense to me. Why Steven would 554 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: open the gas cap and do that and pull it 555 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: out lea but hanging there? And you know another thing 556 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: that's bothering me, to Jennifer Wood and joining us from 557 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: fits New. I don't see any fingerprint dust on that. None. None, none. 558 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: That's bothering me because if if I went empty, I 559 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: could see it on my dash empty, the red sign. 560 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: I don't have to go what pull open the gas 561 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: I can smell to SEPA's empty. No, I know it's empty. Ye. 562 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: Who would have opened this up and left the screw 563 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: part hanging out like that? Who? And it's not dusted. 564 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: If somebody came back or tried to stage it to 565 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: look like this is what happened, their prints would have 566 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: been right there. Jennifer, what about it? I mean, the 567 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: only thing I've ever thought made sense was if somebody 568 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: pulled up and offered to help him, offered to give 569 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: him gas. That's the only thing I can think of, 570 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: the only reason that it makes sense for the gas 571 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: kept to be off unless it was staged. Nancy. I mean, 572 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: think about look how it the car is perfectly aligned 573 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: there off the side of the road. I would have 574 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: taken my wallet if I needed gas. Right, Okay, guys, 575 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: go to the next picture. See that orange that's been 576 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: spray painted an orange block in the middle of the road. 577 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: Do you guys see that? Yeah? Yeah, what is that? 578 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: What do you think that is? Brian dahar Oh, that's 579 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: I believe that's where they're fating the body was found. Yeah, paint. 580 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: You can see little paint dot. I see them on 581 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: the asphalt. I see it. And that collaborates with the 582 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: other photos that the show dots being at his feet 583 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: and a dot being up at his whereas head came 584 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: the rent. I see it. I see those marks which 585 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: appear to me Eric Wlan to be his blood. Yeah, 586 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: he lost it. It's about blood through his head. If 587 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: you see the photos of Stephen on the ground, Um 588 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: and Michelle and I have talked about that, and we're 589 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: not convinced that that that doesn't mean that he was 590 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: killed there. That sometimes you have a close head injury 591 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: and when the body is dropped, that's when it releases 592 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: its blood. So the fact that he was bled out 593 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 1: there is an indicative that that's where the murder took place. Guys, 594 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: you can see all of these photos and more at 595 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: crime online dot com if you want to look at 596 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: them carefully and inspect them and blow them up, because 597 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: when you do blow them up, you can see so 598 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: much more of the detail. We're talking about time stories 599 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, doctor Michelle Duprie joining me. Pathologists, medical examiner, 600 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: former detective. Would you have expected to see more blood there? Yeah, 601 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: well certainly if it was a hit and run, yes, 602 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: But given that we don't suspect that, you know, this 603 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: amount of blood I think is appropriate. As Eric explained, 604 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: we think that he was probably till someplace else and 605 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: dropped or staged right here in the middle of the road. 606 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: You know, doctor Michelle Joy, who is a forensic, clinical, 607 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: and academic psychiatrist. Guys, a psychiatrist gets a medical decree 608 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: and then specializes in psychiatry. I just wonder what that 609 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: one photo is doing to Stephen Smith's mother, where her 610 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: son is basically reduced to a spray paint rectangle in 611 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: the middle of the road. Right. There's something I was 612 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: even myself a little bit confused when I first saw it, 613 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: because it isn't even a typical it's so you know 614 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: typically in movies or whenever you see the body outline. 615 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this is really like the most the human 616 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: square boxes all that there is, right, and that that 617 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: was so long ago at this point he even you repvisited. 618 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: So again it's the whole thing is must be a 619 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: terrible experience, and to have to see these images in 620 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: the news and then really a square box, like you said, 621 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: distilled down to like the least human thing possible. I 622 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: remember and my fiancee's murder. When I took the stand 623 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: in that case and I was leaving the stand, I 624 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: walked by States Council table. I had never even been 625 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: in a courtroom before, and I saw his denim shirt 626 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 1: he was wearing that day, and other pieces of evidence, 627 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: and it just I felt like I had been hit 628 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: by a baseball bat because it was so impersonal. It 629 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: was just, you know, scattered across the table and there's 630 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: really nobody's fault, but his whole life had been boiled 631 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: down to little pieces of evidence. In the next photo, 632 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: I want to go to Brian dar on this and 633 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: everybody jump in if you've got a thought. Jennifer Woods, 634 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: Brian Darr. Let's start with Dar. We see his cell 635 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: phone in an evidence bag. I just wonder why he 636 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken the phone with him, and what, if 637 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: anything they could gain from that. What do you think? Well, 638 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: I thought I had heard someone earlier say that the 639 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 1: cell phone was phoned. Oh yeah, I mean that's it. 640 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: It was in his pocket. He took that with him. 641 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: The process of finding it. I mean, I wonder if 642 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: we're going to learn that we've already made no calls? 643 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: Did he did he try to call a tow truck? 644 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to learn a lot from that. 645 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: And to you, Jennifer wood Nampy, I need to break in. 646 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: He did have a phone call. Someone said he did 647 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: have a phone call. It hasn't been proven. There's a 648 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: guy named Mark what's his name, Markham Mark Berkhart who 649 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: claims that he was having an affair with Stephen and 650 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: that Stephen called him and tected with him, supposedly after 651 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: he left the car. But Becker is not has been 652 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: deemed by SLED could not be credible. His story is 653 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: all over the map. They actually have a live interview 654 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: with him in Duncan and he claims that he had 655 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: a relationship with Stephen. They were he met him at 656 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: some bar and Charleston that he can't give the name 657 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: on that supposedly was open at one time, but he 658 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: claims that he had a conversation with Stephen after he 659 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: left the car. Guys, I wanted to take a listen 660 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: to our cut. Number four from WCSC documents show investigators 661 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: fielding tips about the Murdoch family in the days and 662 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: months following his death. The first tip comes in early August, 663 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: suggesting swirling rumors of a relationship between Smith and Buster 664 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: Murdoch Alec Murdoch's eldest and now only surviving son. An 665 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: investigator also feels a tip about another possible suspect, but 666 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: that tipster tells them he passed along the information at 667 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: the request of a well known family patriarch. Former solicitor 668 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: Randy Murdoch Andrew says in the record she has the 669 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: Murdoch name is mentioned forty times. Where there's smoke, there's fire, 670 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 1: there has to be something to it. Eventually, the leads 671 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: dried up and the case went cold. Buster Murdog vehemently 672 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: denies any connection to the Stephen Smith case. Eric Bland, 673 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: what is going to happen next? We have gotten approvals 674 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: already from the funeral home all the way through the corner. 675 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: Next we get de Heck to give approval for the exhamation. 676 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: De Heck is the Department of Health Environmental Control. They 677 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: control you know, burials, And we're confident that we're going 678 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: to get it because LED is endorsing it, so I 679 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 1: don't think we're going to have to go to court. 680 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: But the last thing we have to get is the 681 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: de Heck approval. We already have obviously, doctor Dupree we have. 682 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: So you're putting together your own dream team. Dare I 683 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 1: use the price? It is a very good stable of experts. 684 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: I'm not part of the dream team. I'm just a 685 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: normal lawyer. But yes, I got doctor Michelle Duprie. We 686 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: have a forensic anthropologist pathologist in Florida as well as 687 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: we have a pathologist who's going to perform the actual autopsy. 688 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 1: And we are pleased to announce that we have doctor 689 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,280 Speaker 1: Kenny Kenzie, who now is going to be an addition 690 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: to the team to do the action and reconstruction and 691 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: start the investigation as a man. That's great. We all 692 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: made Kenzie on the stand during Murgue. He had a 693 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: very exciting. So I think we have Zie on the stand. 694 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: He was awesome. We expect that all of this is 695 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 1: going to be done by next Friday. Wait as Justice 696 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: son Thols goodbye. So