WEBVTT - Joe Exotic murder plot victim's hubby DEAD? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.920 Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want Justice. 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.080 Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:20.400 After the flamboyant tiger trainer Joe Exotic is convicted of 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.560 hiring a hitman to kill his rival, the so called 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:30.240 fairy Godmother of cats, Carol Baskin, a case has reopened, 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.839 Heat it up in the Hillsborough County Sheriff's office, and 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.440 it has nothing to do with Joe Exotic. Now an 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:42.080 investigation heating up into the disappearance of the so called 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:49.440 fairy Godmother to cats, Carol Baskin's husband Don His vehicle 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.159 found at a private airport with his keys and his 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:59.320 briefcase inside, but no sign of him. What happened to 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.959 all his money? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.679 Was there a murder? It's talk that his body was 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.119 fit to big cats, therefore no evidence left behind? What 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:28.759 is the truth about his disappearance? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Hi, everyone, 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.679 I me Nancy Grace. This is Fox Nation in Serious 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.520 X one eleven Crime Stories with a report on the 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:43.000 case heating up in the search for the fairy Godmother 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:48.160 to cats, Carol Baskin. Who's all involved as the victim 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.680 in a murder plot by Joe Exotic. He is the 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:57.640 focus of a Netflix hit documentary now an investigation heating 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.520 up into the disappearance of her husband. Take a listen 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.640 to part of the Netflix dot Take a listen to 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:10.799 this a zookeeper with the prison for murder Fryar. There 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.080 are more captive tires in the US than there are 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.000 in the wild throughout the world. May all people are nuts, man, 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:24.600 They're all crazy. I'm sure y'all got a story to tell. 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.160 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name's Joe Exotic and 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.360 this is Sarge. It was like a mythical character living 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.000 out in the middle of Oklahoma who owned twelve hundred 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:41.320 tigers and lions and bears, and match spoke in good looking, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.359 I love the party and have fun. I don't think 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:49.320 we're done blowing up today. Don't they have a heart 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:51.880 than the soul of the mind. I've learned from them. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.079 But Carol Basket and Kate saying, I campm Leach taggers. 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.320 If he ever had an animate in his life, it 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.240 was Carol Basket, Little cats and kittens, It's Carol, Bigcat Rescue. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.919 Carol is the mother Teresa of Kats sleeve Ville and 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.040 the private possession of these cats. This is my way 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.840 of living and nobody's gonna fail me any otherwise. Well, 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.919 I don't know about that. What you're hearing right there 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.120 is from Netflix with me. Sheriff Chad Chronister, sheriff of 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.720 Hillsborough County, Florida, where her animal sanctuary is. Doctor Gray Stafford, 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:29.040 former director Conservation Wildlife World Zoo, author of Zoomility, and 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:34.240 creator of the Zoologic podcast. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.400 joining me out of New York. Bruce Johnson, owner IESP 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:43.560 Investigations Director, Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, psychoanalyst to the Stars, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.160 and Beverly Hilds doctor Bethany Marshall, and New York Post 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:54.000 investigative reporter Michael Kaplan. Sheriff Chad Chronister is telling me 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.680 the search for Carol Baskin's ex husband is heating up. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:06.000 Doctor Gray Stafford, Zoologic Podcast. You say it's all about money. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.200 Let me remind you there is no person of interest 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.360 or suspect. But what are you talking about money motive? Well, 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.400 I would just remind people that sanctuaries are big business, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.520 And if you look at these publicly available documents into 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:23.560 their tax tax filings, there's a lot of money there 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.920 at Bigcat Rescue that is raised and it's not going 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:31.080 into all their exhibitory or staffing. So I think, as 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:32.920 in any case, you know, a good thing to do 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:34.880 is to follow the money in suwart leaves. Can I 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:36.839 ask a question here? I mean they didn't teach me 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.799 this in law school. When you say there's big money 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.360 in animal sanctuaries, what are we talking about? Is big money? Well, 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:49.120 in twenty seventeen they had a surplus at her facility 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.279 of over a million dollars. Did you say a surplus? Yes, 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.239 Sheriff Chad Carnister joining me, the sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.719 where the animal sanctuary is located, did you know that? 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.000 I mean Stafford got that off the tax documents. That's 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.040 a lot of money. That's a ton of money, and 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.240 years after any great investigator, any good investigator, always follows 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.359 the money. I mean way, a wealthy person. What wealthy 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.720 person disappears you Everyone on this phone has been been 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.159 doing it a long time. What person ever disappears a 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.760 wealthy person and doesn't take their money with him, and 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.839 we estimate his net work when when he disappeared to 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.440 be around five to seven million dollars. And then you 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.599 have to go into a little the will, the will 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.920 that they thought was forged. What will have you ever 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.640 seen that has a provision in there that says that 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.480 if I remember kidnapped or I disappear, I leave the 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.719 bulk of my wealth, well my entire wealth did this individual? Okay, 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.200 hold it just a moment. Jason notions, I'm certainly no 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.479 expert at probate, but I have written wills for people 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.640 when they're simple. I've never been anything like that in 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.200 a will I left, I'd write my dad's will, he 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.680 left everything to my mom. I write my mom's well, 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.440 she loved everything to her grand children. So long story short, 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.080 I've never heard of a provision like that in a will. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.839 This is your expertise, Oceans there you see enough probated 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.320 uh you know estates, And again it's it's people with 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.760 assets that do it. So sometimes they happen if I'm 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.560 kidnapped or go missing. You've actually put that out of will. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.840 Listen that specific codessle I have not talken out of 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:29.599 both sides of your mouth again, surprised eccentric. Eccentric people 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:35.640 will be creative with restrictions and odd provisions. This one 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:42.000 I haven't seen. Sheriff Chronister, Chad Chronister elected sheriff. Are 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.719 you sure that was in his will? One percent was 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.120 in his will? There was even a witness. You have 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.960 to remember when you watch this documentary, they always thought 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.839 someone was spiled on one another. They were extremely competitive 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.360 and you almost had to prove your allegiance daily. And 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.800 there was one of the employees there said she witnessed 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.840 them signed the document. She later recanted that story and 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.080 said she did not witness, but felt compelled to say 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.279 that she witnessed the signatures on those doctors. Well, that 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.000 doesn't that defeat the will right there? If you don't 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.160 have a witness, sheriff, if we were told no on 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.880 a civil civil portion of it, because she recanted her story, 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.360 but the first part so the aired, I guess on 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.560 the side of cautions for lack of a better term, 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.240 and she was awarded every single opinion of this will. 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:33.400 His children received absolutely zero. I set some sour grapes 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.120 right there. In Carol Baskin's defense, I don't know the 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.160 truth of this, but I'm very, very intrigued by the 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:43.119 fact that he goes missing through a private jet port 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.240 where you basically pull up, you park in front, you 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.600 walk in the door like you're walking in the pharmacy, 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.640 you walk out in the back of the office, and 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.080 get on a plane. There's no security, there's nothing. I mean, 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.720 you can show your high school library card basically to 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.360 show who you are. It's not like you're going through ESA. 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.600 At the airport, they find his vehicle there with his briefcase. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.360 Michael Kaplan with the investigative reporter in New York Post, 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.760 what was in his vehicle when he went missing. I 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.080 don't know that's the answer to that question. I think 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.800 we were just talking about it, Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:24.360 Research Institute. Wasn't it his briefcase? Yes, the briefcase. Why 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.360 would you leave your keys in your vehicle? That doesn't 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.960 Apparently he didn't secure the vehicle, he didn't take the 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.000 keys with him, he didn't take a briefcase, and apparently 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.880 there was some luggage in the car. So if in 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.120 fact he was going somewhere, he didn't take anything with 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.920 him that he should have. Okay, Michael Kaplan New York 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.480 Post reporter. You must be really humiliated that director of 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.240 the Colecase Research Institute knew that answer. I'm gonna give 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:54.240 you a moment to gather yourself right now, thank you, Okay, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.760 right now. This is just a theory, but there's got 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.400 to be not in court, of course, but a death, 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.520 and according to court watchers legal eagles, the motive would 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.840 beat money. Take a listen to our friends at Netflix. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:13.320 Jack don Lewis was last seen on August the eighteenth. 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.400 He was reported missing on the nineteenth by his wife 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.920 at about one thirty in the afternoon. The detectives walked 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.560 the property and drove the property. Now you talking about 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.000 forty acres, Apparently there was nothing there that suggested that 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.000 they should pursue that area any further. There were aerial 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:38.520 searches done, they found nothing. Then after three or four 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:43.640 days we found his van abandoned at an airport with 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.720 the keys to in it, his briefcase in it, but 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:51.280 no Don Lewis. And it didn't make sense, Like with 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.160 what he said to me, if you was truly wanting 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.600 to disappear and nobody knew where you was at, would 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.880 you leave your van where you got in a plane 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.080 to take off, you wouldn't nobody know you is in 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.920 the plane, because that's now a clue. Do you think 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.880 it was planted? I think someone else drove the van there. 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:20.840 I don't know if it was planted. There Crime Stories 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:26.400 with Nancy Grace, we are talking about a guy called 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.079 Joe Exotic. He named himself Joe Exotic, not his real name, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.840 real name Shrivel, and he's a subject of a brand 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.199 new Netflix hit, Tiger King, Murder, Mayhem and Madness to 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:42.360 Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psycholis to the Stars, who shall remain name? 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.560 What's joining me from Beverly Hills, Doctor Bethany, have you 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.440 noticed that rich people can't seem to live without their money? 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.479 That you know, right now, at a time of coronavirus, 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.680 we hear people complaining that they can't go to the 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.760 nail salon or they can't get their hair, And that's real. 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:05.240 That's not me making it up. It's real. And people 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:11.080 have been shamed about that because it's just so irrelevant. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.600 At a time like this, rich people have a hard 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:19.439 time doing without luxuries. So my question is, follow the money. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.040 What is it once you get used to all that money. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.760 You just can't do without it, Nancy. I have had 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.120 entire families come into my Beverly Hills office along with 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:33.760 their attorneys, their grandchildren, their estate attorneys, everybody. All they 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.720 can do is talk about the money, who has it, 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.320 who's taking it? And in my field, we call it 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.000 the third It's a fancy word which means it's that 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.319 one thing which you just say, tird t u r d. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.400 The third thi r D mean sorry. I found it 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.439 very hard to believe that that word would even come 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.320 out of your very prim improper mouth. But go ahead, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:01.680 not okay. The third thi D is a fancy term 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.720 that means that that is, it's the elephant in the room. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.680 It's the one thing through which everybody is relating. It's 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.240 the only thing that they care about is the money. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.839 And when we think about Carol, we think about show Exotic, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.160 we think about all these crazy, eccentric characters. What is 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.439 in common with all these crimes, all these plots, all 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.800 these disappearances, is money. It's not animals. This is not 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.040 a story about animals, because the animals are being exploited 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.640 for financial gain. I find it very interesting that Carol 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.040 said that it was unusual that it was not unusual 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.400 for her husband to leave for days at a time 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.480 without even telling her that he was leaving. What kind 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.760 of a marriage is that? And I agree with Cheryl 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.760 McCollum that what are all the details around his disappearance? 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.520 Did she have a fantasy about where he went? Did 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.000 she miss him? Was she crying? Was she putting out 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.000 missing person flyers? What was her affect after the disappearance? 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.120 It seems that all the emotions like metal filings to 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.200 a magnet, The emotions are going towards the money and 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.920 the animals which represent the proturing of money, rather than 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.840 people take a listen to this. Joe brought it up 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:17.240 several times. I know anybody can kill the lady. I 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.640 just put it off. As you know, bullet. I came 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.400 into office one day and he's like, I got this 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.160 crossbow and can use this on her nature trail. Wherever 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.000 she walks. You shoot her with this and nobody ever 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.120 see it. I'm like, what the book? Have you seen 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.760 me walking around floor with a camouflage suit on? Okay, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.120 but a fucking crossbow? Give me a break, Alan Lover. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.439 He's an old time employee of Jeff. Jeff knows him 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.000 real well, supposedly since he has a tear drop tattoo. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.880 He's killed somebody before. Well, Joe canry one day decide 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.800 the blue, He says, Do you think Alan can kill somebody? 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.679 I said, is he capable of it? I said, of course, 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.400 who's not. I'll cut her fat off for you. If 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.560 you've all and he's all into that, would you let 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.160 me never bring it back? No? No, get rid of 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:10.880 in the swap Okay, we'll wow To the host and 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:17.079 founder of Zoologic podcast, the former director of Conservation Wildlife 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.760 World Zoo out in Arizona, doctor Gray Stafford, how did 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.680 you manage to get your mits on tax returns? Well, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.040 there's some great bloggers out there that have been tracking 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:32.000 the sanctuary business, and it is a business for many years, 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.840 so I'm relying on their research, not my own. And 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.920 it's publicly searched documents, so tax documents and so forth 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.280 that these organizations have to file like we all do. 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.440 It's there and I think donors and volunteers and visitors 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.800 would be surprised at the amount of money. I am surprised. 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:55.239 Terrell's Place Sheriff Chad Kronister, the sheriff there, in Hillsboro County, Florida. 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.160 You heard the questions that doctor Bethany Marshall in Beverly 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.640 Hills post about Carol's affect. Did she put up posters? 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.400 What did she do? Was she crying? Was she distraught 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.120 when the husband goes missing? Do you recall her demeanor 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.440 at the time. I don't. I don't have an accurate 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.520 answer for that. But let me just touch on real 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.320 quick about the truck at the airport. I think a 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.240 lot of people are operating under the theory that he 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.440 left and fled to He had a home in Costa Rica. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.080 His house manager there hadn't seen him in six months, 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.840 the security guards that worked on the property hadn't seen 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:31.120 him in six months. Some of the business associates that 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.000 he had hadn't seen him in six months. So no 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.640 one knows that or I were not operating in a 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.600 theory that he went to Costa Rica. I didn't even 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.840 know he had a home in Costa Rica, sheriff. So 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.000 he does have a home there, but nobody's seen him 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.160 even up to today. And not only did he have 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.520 a home, he had a girlfriend in Costa Rica. Neither 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.080 one had seen him in six months. Okay. That caused 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.640 a lot of raised eyebrows in here, especially Jackie Howard, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.080 my producer over there, who's now laughing. Whoa, whoa, Wait 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.920 a minute, Michael Kaplan, what is happening with you? That 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:06.480 man has a mistress and buttoned up in Costa Rica? Hello? Well, 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.800 I didn't know that. I've never heard one word about 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:14.800 a mistress. So, Michael Kaplan, New York Post reporter, this 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.320 is news to everybody right now that we're hearing this 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.160 from Sheriff Chad Cronister for the first time, news to 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.880 me as well. I have to. I mean, have you noticed, 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.240 I mean, you're right there in Manhattan where you know 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:30.280 a regular apartment called seven hundred thousand dollars a one bedroom, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.600 I might add, but have you noticed that rich people 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.840 that you guys report about every day, they can't seem 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.880 to do without their money. So somewhere, if this guy 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.240 really does take off, he's got to be sitting on 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.360 a pot of gold. Would you agree with that, Michael, 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.360 I would agree with that. I would agree with that. 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.720 Would I would think that he would have had you know, 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:55.160 had money with him, or had you know access to it? Obviously, yes, 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.840 access to it. He may not have it, you know, 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.040 stuffed in the lining of his pants. But Cheryl McCollum, 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.480 a director coal case research, just to chief, wouldn't that 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.040 be a matter of running down a money trail? O. 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:07.720 The money trail is going to be the key to 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.120 this whole thing if you look at it. Carol Backkin 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.480 went after these private zooms so that she should be 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.600 the only game in town. It was all about money. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.040 If she was the only place you could go to 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.000 see these beautiful creatures, then she's gonna be able to 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.880 raise five times the amount of money she'd be able 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.240 to raise if you could. Why are you saying that 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.280 about her? You don't know that. Maybe it was because 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.440 of love of animals. Okay, So here's the thing. Carol 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:39.560 Backkins is in Florida and goes after somebody in Oklahoma. 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.720 So she started this whole thing about money. But Joe 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.720 Exotic stole the name of her No, he stole the 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.639 name of her sanctuary. He changed the name of his show. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.520 But Nancy that was asked her Carol through the first 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.080 stone in this thing. Joe Exotic didn't know who she 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.240 was till he read about himself in a newspaper where 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.920 she's threatened to shut him down. She wanted that man 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.600 out of boozers. She went after his livelihood, all due respects, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.119 but Joe Resarted made like five hundred thousand dollars. What 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.760 the heck else could he do for five hundred thousand 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.040 dollars in Oklahoma? Well, I can tell you one thing 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.920 he couldn't do, and that has demand her head and 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.760 a jar, Cheryl McCollum. So that's one way not to 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.480 ever make anymore money by sitting your rear end in 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.679 a federal pen for the next twenty five years. But 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.200 you know you want to give him a get out 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.440 of jail free card because he needed to make a 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.960 living in Oklahoma. A lot of people actually have real 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:45.199 jobs in Oklahoma, not hiring hitman. Cheryl Banner. Okay, let 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.800 me sink jump in. Yes, this is Bruce. One other 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.800 thing I mean, he was a known player Carol's first husband, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:57.320 and in the documentary it also said that he wrote 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.520 a sealed letter to his family, which they revealed on 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.000 the show. Also that in the event that he goes 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.800 missing to look at her, and that she had threatened him, 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.359 he had guns in the house and she took away 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.960 his gun and she had a gun in the house 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.919 and had threatened him with the gun. So she's no 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.320 angel here in all this. And also what the reporter 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.960 had mentioned, she had been going after him and his 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.720 business hard and Peter as a huge following. As you know, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:25.840 they went after him and their goal was to put 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:30.440 him out of business, and they did. And you know, well, 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.840 I know you're saying she's no angel, but let me 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:42.200 remind you, Bruce Johnson, even angels sometimes get dirty faces. Hi, guys, 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.000 Nancy Grace here, we have all worked so hard to 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:50.960 bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting back against 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:56.920 America's crime Wave, a brand new book. After interviewing literally 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.960 hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our knowledge 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.960 into Don't Be a Victim. You could pre order now 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.080 go to Crime online dot Com pre order now and 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.600 know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:24.000 Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:29.040 guys were talking about as he titles himself, Joe Exotic. 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.400 Take a listen to our friends over at Netflix would 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.400 raise my eye browsers. She threatened to kill me. That's 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.679 not enough together. Nope, there speech there's free speech. We 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.280 don't restrain free speech in this country. We punish it 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.119 after it's done. I'm sure in the judgment's eyes it 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.200 was hearsay. But God happened in Gin and he disappeared 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.000 in Augus. He was shipping some cars down to Costa Rica. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.480 Everything had to be done in Miami Monday morning, and 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.480 I had to get the titles to the cars and 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.719 stuff ready. But I needed him to tell me something. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.359 I can't waiting for him to call me. He didn't 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.200 call me. I started calling him, didn't answer the phone, 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.880 didn't answer the phone. This continued all through Saturday, all 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:21.359 through Sunday. I got no answer. I finally got a 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.680 hold of Carol. She says, do you think I should 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.680 call the police? And I said, do you think? Wow? 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.880 Do you think I should call police? Okay, right there, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.359 to doctor Bethanie Marshall jump in, well, this doesn't seem 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.199 like a woman who's very concerned about the fact that 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:44.560 her husband's gotten missing. Carol's affect is very shallow. Every 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.840 time I hear her voice. Earlier in the show, you 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.480 played her saying something to the effect of, well, I 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.879 know Joe Exotic wanted to kill me. All along, but 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.280 she kind of giggles like she thinks it's funny, like 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.760 almost like there's this big rama between her and Joe Exotic. 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.640 It reminds me of two villages that are kind of 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.359 fighting and rampaging against each other, like they're locked in 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:14.879 some fight that's actually exciting to them. They seem like 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.560 drama queens. And when her husband goes missing and she 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.240 doesn't want to report him, it helps me that there's 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.600 trouble in her own camp. There's not just trouble in 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.520 the other person's camp, Shoe Exotics camp, there's trouble in 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.480 her camp too. I mean, you know, doctor Bethany. Can 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.399 I tell you a little story, a story I haven't 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:39.240 told you yet. David, as you know, is a business 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.480 person and he had to go out of town and 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:43.800 he always calls me, lets me know when he or 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.600 texts me it's easier, lets me know when he lands, 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:48.439 lets me know when he gets to his first meeting, 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.400 lets me know when he gets to his hotel. Yeah, 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.760 I typically don't speak to me again till the next morning. 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.320 I didn't hear that I knew he went out to dinner. 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:59.520 I didn't ever hear that he made it to the hotel, 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.960 but I thought I knew the hotel, but I wasn't 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:07.240 sure myself. And you know d that works with me, 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.560 stayed up until four o'clock in the morning. I was 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.240 so convinced somebody bopped him in the head, and so 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.720 I'm parking a lot in Florida. I was worried, sick. 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.640 We finally found the hotel. We were even calling hospitals, 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:24.560 hospitals because he never forgets to text when he gets 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:28.320 to the hotel. Well, we finally found d found him, 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:34.280 and I called the night clerk and after many many begging, threats, 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.119 blah blah blah, you can imagine he went to the 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.200 room and checked on David to make sure he was okay. 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:45.399 He was fine. And it's just hard for me to 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:51.240 imagine your husband going missing and you don't raise the alarm. 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:53.800 But that could just be the difference in the marriage. 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:57.040 Bethany Well well, Dancy. But also think about the fact 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.240 that if he had a mistress in Costa Rica, if 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.320 he had this life away from her, I could see 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.879 her wanting to check it in on him frequently, just 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:08.320 out of a sense of paranoia. If she felt she 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.880 was being cheated on like O, if you think your 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:15.360 husband has a mistress in California, go ahead, get a divorce. Three. 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:17.480 I did not mean that as a higher hit man 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.520 or kill him. I mean that as divorce. Why check 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:25.160 up on him? Forget that? Move on all right, no offense, 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:28.520 Jason notions. But men are like buses. A new one's 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:32.200 gonna come along every fifteen minutes. Don't get mad at me, guys. 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.560 Listen to this from our friends at Netflix. That new 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:40.000