1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want Justice. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation. 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: After the flamboyant tiger trainer Joe Exotic is convicted of 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: hiring a hitman to kill his rival, the so called 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: fairy Godmother of cats, Carol Baskin, a case has reopened, 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: Heat it up in the Hillsborough County Sheriff's office, and 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with Joe Exotic. Now an 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: investigation heating up into the disappearance of the so called 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: fairy Godmother to cats, Carol Baskin's husband Don His vehicle 10 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: found at a private airport with his keys and his 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: briefcase inside, but no sign of him. What happened to 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: all his money? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 13 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: Was there a murder? It's talk that his body was 14 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: fit to big cats, therefore no evidence left behind? What 15 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: is the truth about his disappearance? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Hi, everyone, 16 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: I me Nancy Grace. This is Fox Nation in Serious 17 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: X one eleven Crime Stories with a report on the 18 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: case heating up in the search for the fairy Godmother 19 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: to cats, Carol Baskin. Who's all involved as the victim 20 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: in a murder plot by Joe Exotic. He is the 21 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: focus of a Netflix hit documentary now an investigation heating 22 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: up into the disappearance of her husband. Take a listen 23 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: to part of the Netflix dot Take a listen to 24 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: this a zookeeper with the prison for murder Fryar. There 25 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: are more captive tires in the US than there are 26 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: in the wild throughout the world. May all people are nuts, man, 27 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: They're all crazy. I'm sure y'all got a story to tell. 28 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name's Joe Exotic and 29 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: this is Sarge. It was like a mythical character living 30 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: out in the middle of Oklahoma who owned twelve hundred 31 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: tigers and lions and bears, and match spoke in good looking, 32 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: I love the party and have fun. I don't think 33 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: we're done blowing up today. Don't they have a heart 34 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: than the soul of the mind. I've learned from them. 35 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: But Carol Basket and Kate saying, I campm Leach taggers. 36 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: If he ever had an animate in his life, it 37 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: was Carol Basket, Little cats and kittens, It's Carol, Bigcat Rescue. 38 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: Carol is the mother Teresa of Kats sleeve Ville and 39 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: the private possession of these cats. This is my way 40 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: of living and nobody's gonna fail me any otherwise. Well, 41 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. What you're hearing right there 42 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: is from Netflix with me. Sheriff Chad Chronister, sheriff of 43 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: Hillsborough County, Florida, where her animal sanctuary is. Doctor Gray Stafford, 44 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: former director Conservation Wildlife World Zoo, author of Zoomility, and 45 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: creator of the Zoologic podcast. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney 46 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: joining me out of New York. Bruce Johnson, owner IESP 47 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: Investigations Director, Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, psychoanalyst to the Stars, 48 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: and Beverly Hilds doctor Bethany Marshall, and New York Post 49 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Michael Kaplan. Sheriff Chad Chronister is telling me 50 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: the search for Carol Baskin's ex husband is heating up. 51 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Gray Stafford, Zoologic Podcast. You say it's all about money. 52 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: Let me remind you there is no person of interest 53 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: or suspect. But what are you talking about money motive? Well, 54 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: I would just remind people that sanctuaries are big business, 55 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: And if you look at these publicly available documents into 56 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: their tax tax filings, there's a lot of money there 57 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: at Bigcat Rescue that is raised and it's not going 58 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: into all their exhibitory or staffing. So I think, as 59 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: in any case, you know, a good thing to do 60 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: is to follow the money in suwart leaves. Can I 61 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: ask a question here? I mean they didn't teach me 62 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 1: this in law school. When you say there's big money 63 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: in animal sanctuaries, what are we talking about? Is big money? Well, 64 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen they had a surplus at her facility 65 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: of over a million dollars. Did you say a surplus? Yes, 66 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: Sheriff Chad Carnister joining me, the sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida, 67 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: where the animal sanctuary is located, did you know that? 68 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: I mean Stafford got that off the tax documents. That's 69 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: a lot of money. That's a ton of money, and 70 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: years after any great investigator, any good investigator, always follows 71 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: the money. I mean way, a wealthy person. What wealthy 72 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: person disappears you Everyone on this phone has been been 73 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: doing it a long time. What person ever disappears a 74 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: wealthy person and doesn't take their money with him, and 75 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: we estimate his net work when when he disappeared to 76 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: be around five to seven million dollars. And then you 77 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: have to go into a little the will, the will 78 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: that they thought was forged. What will have you ever 79 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: seen that has a provision in there that says that 80 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: if I remember kidnapped or I disappear, I leave the 81 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: bulk of my wealth, well my entire wealth did this individual? Okay, 82 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: hold it just a moment. Jason notions, I'm certainly no 83 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: expert at probate, but I have written wills for people 84 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: when they're simple. I've never been anything like that in 85 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: a will I left, I'd write my dad's will, he 86 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: left everything to my mom. I write my mom's well, 87 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: she loved everything to her grand children. So long story short, 88 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: I've never heard of a provision like that in a will. 89 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: This is your expertise, Oceans there you see enough probated 90 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: uh you know estates, And again it's it's people with 91 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: assets that do it. So sometimes they happen if I'm 92 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: kidnapped or go missing. You've actually put that out of will. 93 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: Listen that specific codessle I have not talken out of 94 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: both sides of your mouth again, surprised eccentric. Eccentric people 95 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: will be creative with restrictions and odd provisions. This one 96 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: I haven't seen. Sheriff Chronister, Chad Chronister elected sheriff. Are 97 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: you sure that was in his will? One percent was 98 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: in his will? There was even a witness. You have 99 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: to remember when you watch this documentary, they always thought 100 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: someone was spiled on one another. They were extremely competitive 101 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: and you almost had to prove your allegiance daily. And 102 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: there was one of the employees there said she witnessed 103 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: them signed the document. She later recanted that story and 104 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: said she did not witness, but felt compelled to say 105 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: that she witnessed the signatures on those doctors. Well, that 106 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: doesn't that defeat the will right there? If you don't 107 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: have a witness, sheriff, if we were told no on 108 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: a civil civil portion of it, because she recanted her story, 109 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: but the first part so the aired, I guess on 110 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: the side of cautions for lack of a better term, 111 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: and she was awarded every single opinion of this will. 112 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: His children received absolutely zero. I set some sour grapes 113 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: right there. In Carol Baskin's defense, I don't know the 114 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: truth of this, but I'm very, very intrigued by the 115 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,119 Speaker 1: fact that he goes missing through a private jet port 116 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: where you basically pull up, you park in front, you 117 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: walk in the door like you're walking in the pharmacy, 118 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: you walk out in the back of the office, and 119 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: get on a plane. There's no security, there's nothing. I mean, 120 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: you can show your high school library card basically to 121 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: show who you are. It's not like you're going through ESA. 122 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: At the airport, they find his vehicle there with his briefcase. 123 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: Michael Kaplan with the investigative reporter in New York Post, 124 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: what was in his vehicle when he went missing. I 125 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: don't know that's the answer to that question. I think 126 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: we were just talking about it, Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase 127 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: Research Institute. Wasn't it his briefcase? Yes, the briefcase. Why 128 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: would you leave your keys in your vehicle? That doesn't 129 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: Apparently he didn't secure the vehicle, he didn't take the 130 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: keys with him, he didn't take a briefcase, and apparently 131 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: there was some luggage in the car. So if in 132 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: fact he was going somewhere, he didn't take anything with 133 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: him that he should have. Okay, Michael Kaplan New York 134 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: Post reporter. You must be really humiliated that director of 135 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: the Colecase Research Institute knew that answer. I'm gonna give 136 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: you a moment to gather yourself right now, thank you, Okay, 137 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: right now. This is just a theory, but there's got 138 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: to be not in court, of course, but a death, 139 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: and according to court watchers legal eagles, the motive would 140 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: beat money. Take a listen to our friends at Netflix. 141 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: Jack don Lewis was last seen on August the eighteenth. 142 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: He was reported missing on the nineteenth by his wife 143 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: at about one thirty in the afternoon. The detectives walked 144 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: the property and drove the property. Now you talking about 145 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: forty acres, Apparently there was nothing there that suggested that 146 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: they should pursue that area any further. There were aerial 147 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: searches done, they found nothing. Then after three or four 148 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: days we found his van abandoned at an airport with 149 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: the keys to in it, his briefcase in it, but 150 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: no Don Lewis. And it didn't make sense, Like with 151 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: what he said to me, if you was truly wanting 152 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: to disappear and nobody knew where you was at, would 153 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: you leave your van where you got in a plane 154 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: to take off, you wouldn't nobody know you is in 155 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: the plane, because that's now a clue. Do you think 156 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: it was planted? I think someone else drove the van there. 157 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was planted. There Crime Stories 158 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we are talking about a guy called 159 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: Joe Exotic. He named himself Joe Exotic, not his real name, 160 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: real name Shrivel, and he's a subject of a brand 161 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: new Netflix hit, Tiger King, Murder, Mayhem and Madness to 162 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psycholis to the Stars, who shall remain name? 163 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: What's joining me from Beverly Hills, Doctor Bethany, have you 164 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: noticed that rich people can't seem to live without their money? 165 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,479 Speaker 1: That you know, right now, at a time of coronavirus, 166 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: we hear people complaining that they can't go to the 167 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: nail salon or they can't get their hair, And that's real. 168 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: That's not me making it up. It's real. And people 169 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: have been shamed about that because it's just so irrelevant. 170 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: At a time like this, rich people have a hard 171 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: time doing without luxuries. So my question is, follow the money. 172 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: What is it once you get used to all that money. 173 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: You just can't do without it, Nancy. I have had 174 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: entire families come into my Beverly Hills office along with 175 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: their attorneys, their grandchildren, their estate attorneys, everybody. All they 176 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: can do is talk about the money, who has it, 177 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: who's taking it? And in my field, we call it 178 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: the third It's a fancy word which means it's that 179 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: one thing which you just say, tird t u r d. 180 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: The third thi r D mean sorry. I found it 181 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: very hard to believe that that word would even come 182 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: out of your very prim improper mouth. But go ahead, 183 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: not okay. The third thi D is a fancy term 184 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: that means that that is, it's the elephant in the room. 185 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: It's the one thing through which everybody is relating. It's 186 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: the only thing that they care about is the money. 187 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: And when we think about Carol, we think about show Exotic, 188 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: we think about all these crazy, eccentric characters. What is 189 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: in common with all these crimes, all these plots, all 190 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: these disappearances, is money. It's not animals. This is not 191 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: a story about animals, because the animals are being exploited 192 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: for financial gain. I find it very interesting that Carol 193 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: said that it was unusual that it was not unusual 194 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: for her husband to leave for days at a time 195 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: without even telling her that he was leaving. What kind 196 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: of a marriage is that? And I agree with Cheryl 197 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: McCollum that what are all the details around his disappearance? 198 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: Did she have a fantasy about where he went? Did 199 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: she miss him? Was she crying? Was she putting out 200 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: missing person flyers? What was her affect after the disappearance? 201 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: It seems that all the emotions like metal filings to 202 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: a magnet, The emotions are going towards the money and 203 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: the animals which represent the proturing of money, rather than 204 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: people take a listen to this. Joe brought it up 205 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: several times. I know anybody can kill the lady. I 206 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: just put it off. As you know, bullet. I came 207 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: into office one day and he's like, I got this 208 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: crossbow and can use this on her nature trail. Wherever 209 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: she walks. You shoot her with this and nobody ever 210 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: see it. I'm like, what the book? Have you seen 211 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: me walking around floor with a camouflage suit on? Okay, 212 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: but a fucking crossbow? Give me a break, Alan Lover. 213 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: He's an old time employee of Jeff. Jeff knows him 214 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: real well, supposedly since he has a tear drop tattoo. 215 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: He's killed somebody before. Well, Joe canry one day decide 216 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: the blue, He says, Do you think Alan can kill somebody? 217 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: I said, is he capable of it? I said, of course, 218 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: who's not. I'll cut her fat off for you. If 219 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: you've all and he's all into that, would you let 220 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: me never bring it back? No? No, get rid of 221 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: in the swap Okay, we'll wow To the host and 222 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: founder of Zoologic podcast, the former director of Conservation Wildlife 223 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: World Zoo out in Arizona, doctor Gray Stafford, how did 224 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: you manage to get your mits on tax returns? Well, 225 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: there's some great bloggers out there that have been tracking 226 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: the sanctuary business, and it is a business for many years, 227 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: so I'm relying on their research, not my own. And 228 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: it's publicly searched documents, so tax documents and so forth 229 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: that these organizations have to file like we all do. 230 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: It's there and I think donors and volunteers and visitors 231 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: would be surprised at the amount of money. I am surprised. 232 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,239 Speaker 1: Terrell's Place Sheriff Chad Kronister, the sheriff there, in Hillsboro County, Florida. 233 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: You heard the questions that doctor Bethany Marshall in Beverly 234 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: Hills post about Carol's affect. Did she put up posters? 235 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: What did she do? Was she crying? Was she distraught 236 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: when the husband goes missing? Do you recall her demeanor 237 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: at the time. I don't. I don't have an accurate 238 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: answer for that. But let me just touch on real 239 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: quick about the truck at the airport. I think a 240 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: lot of people are operating under the theory that he 241 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: left and fled to He had a home in Costa Rica. 242 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: His house manager there hadn't seen him in six months, 243 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: the security guards that worked on the property hadn't seen 244 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: him in six months. Some of the business associates that 245 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: he had hadn't seen him in six months. So no 246 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: one knows that or I were not operating in a 247 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: theory that he went to Costa Rica. I didn't even 248 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: know he had a home in Costa Rica, sheriff. So 249 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: he does have a home there, but nobody's seen him 250 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: even up to today. And not only did he have 251 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: a home, he had a girlfriend in Costa Rica. Neither 252 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: one had seen him in six months. Okay. That caused 253 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: a lot of raised eyebrows in here, especially Jackie Howard, 254 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: my producer over there, who's now laughing. Whoa, whoa, Wait 255 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: a minute, Michael Kaplan, what is happening with you? That 256 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: man has a mistress and buttoned up in Costa Rica? Hello? Well, 257 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I've never heard one word about 258 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: a mistress. So, Michael Kaplan, New York Post reporter, this 259 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: is news to everybody right now that we're hearing this 260 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: from Sheriff Chad Cronister for the first time, news to 261 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: me as well. I have to. I mean, have you noticed, 262 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you're right there in Manhattan where you know 263 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: a regular apartment called seven hundred thousand dollars a one bedroom, 264 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: I might add, but have you noticed that rich people 265 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: that you guys report about every day, they can't seem 266 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: to do without their money. So somewhere, if this guy 267 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: really does take off, he's got to be sitting on 268 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: a pot of gold. Would you agree with that, Michael, 269 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I would agree with that. 270 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: Would I would think that he would have had you know, 271 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: had money with him, or had you know access to it? Obviously, yes, 272 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: access to it. He may not have it, you know, 273 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: stuffed in the lining of his pants. But Cheryl McCollum, 274 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: a director coal case research, just to chief, wouldn't that 275 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: be a matter of running down a money trail? O. 276 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: The money trail is going to be the key to 277 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: this whole thing if you look at it. Carol Backkin 278 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: went after these private zooms so that she should be 279 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: the only game in town. It was all about money. 280 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: If she was the only place you could go to 281 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: see these beautiful creatures, then she's gonna be able to 282 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: raise five times the amount of money she'd be able 283 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: to raise if you could. Why are you saying that 284 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: about her? You don't know that. Maybe it was because 285 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: of love of animals. Okay, So here's the thing. Carol 286 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: Backkins is in Florida and goes after somebody in Oklahoma. 287 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: So she started this whole thing about money. But Joe 288 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: Exotic stole the name of her No, he stole the 289 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: name of her sanctuary. He changed the name of his show. 290 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: But Nancy that was asked her Carol through the first 291 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: stone in this thing. Joe Exotic didn't know who she 292 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: was till he read about himself in a newspaper where 293 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: she's threatened to shut him down. She wanted that man 294 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: out of boozers. She went after his livelihood, all due respects, 295 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: but Joe Resarted made like five hundred thousand dollars. What 296 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: the heck else could he do for five hundred thousand 297 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: dollars in Oklahoma? Well, I can tell you one thing 298 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: he couldn't do, and that has demand her head and 299 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: a jar, Cheryl McCollum. So that's one way not to 300 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: ever make anymore money by sitting your rear end in 301 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: a federal pen for the next twenty five years. But 302 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: you know you want to give him a get out 303 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: of jail free card because he needed to make a 304 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: living in Oklahoma. A lot of people actually have real 305 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: jobs in Oklahoma, not hiring hitman. Cheryl Banner. Okay, let 306 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: me sink jump in. Yes, this is Bruce. One other 307 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: thing I mean, he was a known player Carol's first husband, 308 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: and in the documentary it also said that he wrote 309 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: a sealed letter to his family, which they revealed on 310 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the show. Also that in the event that he goes 311 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: missing to look at her, and that she had threatened him, 312 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: he had guns in the house and she took away 313 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: his gun and she had a gun in the house 314 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: and had threatened him with the gun. So she's no 315 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: angel here in all this. And also what the reporter 316 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: had mentioned, she had been going after him and his 317 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: business hard and Peter as a huge following. As you know, 318 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: they went after him and their goal was to put 319 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: him out of business, and they did. And you know, well, 320 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: I know you're saying she's no angel, but let me 321 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: remind you, Bruce Johnson, even angels sometimes get dirty faces. Hi, guys, 322 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here, we have all worked so hard to 323 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting back against 324 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: America's crime Wave, a brand new book. After interviewing literally 325 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our knowledge 326 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: into Don't Be a Victim. You could pre order now 327 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: go to Crime online dot Com pre order now and 328 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National 329 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, 330 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: guys were talking about as he titles himself, Joe Exotic. 331 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends over at Netflix would 332 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: raise my eye browsers. She threatened to kill me. That's 333 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: not enough together. Nope, there speech there's free speech. We 334 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: don't restrain free speech in this country. We punish it 335 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: after it's done. I'm sure in the judgment's eyes it 336 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: was hearsay. But God happened in Gin and he disappeared 337 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: in Augus. He was shipping some cars down to Costa Rica. 338 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: Everything had to be done in Miami Monday morning, and 339 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: I had to get the titles to the cars and 340 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: stuff ready. But I needed him to tell me something. 341 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: I can't waiting for him to call me. He didn't 342 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: call me. I started calling him, didn't answer the phone, 343 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: didn't answer the phone. This continued all through Saturday, all 344 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: through Sunday. I got no answer. I finally got a 345 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: hold of Carol. She says, do you think I should 346 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: call the police? And I said, do you think? Wow? 347 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: Do you think I should call police? Okay, right there, 348 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: to doctor Bethanie Marshall jump in, well, this doesn't seem 349 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: like a woman who's very concerned about the fact that 350 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: her husband's gotten missing. Carol's affect is very shallow. Every 351 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: time I hear her voice. Earlier in the show, you 352 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: played her saying something to the effect of, well, I 353 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: know Joe Exotic wanted to kill me. All along, but 354 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: she kind of giggles like she thinks it's funny, like 355 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: almost like there's this big rama between her and Joe Exotic. 356 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: It reminds me of two villages that are kind of 357 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: fighting and rampaging against each other, like they're locked in 358 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: some fight that's actually exciting to them. They seem like 359 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: drama queens. And when her husband goes missing and she 360 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: doesn't want to report him, it helps me that there's 361 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: trouble in her own camp. There's not just trouble in 362 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: the other person's camp, Shoe Exotics camp, there's trouble in 363 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: her camp too. I mean, you know, doctor Bethany. Can 364 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: I tell you a little story, a story I haven't 365 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: told you yet. David, as you know, is a business 366 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: person and he had to go out of town and 367 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: he always calls me, lets me know when he or 368 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: texts me it's easier, lets me know when he lands, 369 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: lets me know when he gets to his first meeting, 370 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: lets me know when he gets to his hotel. Yeah, 371 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: I typically don't speak to me again till the next morning. 372 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: I didn't hear that I knew he went out to dinner. 373 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: I didn't ever hear that he made it to the hotel, 374 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: but I thought I knew the hotel, but I wasn't 375 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: sure myself. And you know d that works with me, 376 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: stayed up until four o'clock in the morning. I was 377 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: so convinced somebody bopped him in the head, and so 378 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm parking a lot in Florida. I was worried, sick. 379 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: We finally found the hotel. We were even calling hospitals, 380 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: hospitals because he never forgets to text when he gets 381 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: to the hotel. Well, we finally found d found him, 382 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: and I called the night clerk and after many many begging, threats, 383 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, you can imagine he went to the 384 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: room and checked on David to make sure he was okay. 385 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: He was fine. And it's just hard for me to 386 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: imagine your husband going missing and you don't raise the alarm. 387 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: But that could just be the difference in the marriage. 388 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: Bethany Well well, Dancy. But also think about the fact 389 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: that if he had a mistress in Costa Rica, if 390 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: he had this life away from her, I could see 391 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: her wanting to check it in on him frequently, just 392 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: out of a sense of paranoia. If she felt she 393 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: was being cheated on like O, if you think your 394 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: husband has a mistress in California, go ahead, get a divorce. Three. 395 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: I did not mean that as a higher hit man 396 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: or kill him. I mean that as divorce. Why check 397 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: up on him? Forget that? Move on all right, no offense, 398 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: Jason notions. But men are like buses. A new one's 399 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: gonna come along every fifteen minutes. Don't get mad at me, guys. 400 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: Listen to this from our friends at Netflix. That new 401 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: power attorney gave her control over the estate, but she 402 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: prepared his power of attorney A normal person would put 403 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: upon my death, you know, for sentence upon my disappearance. 404 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: Isn't it suspicious that the power of attorney says upon 405 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: my disappearance? Is that normal verbiage I have in thirty 406 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: seven years never seen. It's a poor disappearance, never have 407 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: in that respect. This is terribly unusual. I don't know 408 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: who anticipates. Everybody anticipates her death, but who in the 409 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: world anticipates disappearance? And how did Carol behave in the 410 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: aftermath of his disappearance? After Don disappeared, Carol and her 411 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: family got rid of everybody that worked for Don. They 412 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: got rid of everything that he owned. There was a 413 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: note pin to the refresherator door. It said, never speak 414 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: that man's name again in this house. Wow, you're hearing 415 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: from our friends at Netflix Tiger King, murder, mayhem, and madness. 416 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: To Michael Kaplan, investigative reporter, New York Post, what do 417 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: we know about that? I mean that that sounds pretty well. 418 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: I mean Sounlex was trying to totally divorce herself from 419 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: anything to do with his life or anybody who would 420 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 1: you know, question what happened to the guy? Doesn't it? Well? 421 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: It does, but I don't know that that's necessarily true. 422 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: Maybe she was cutting expensive I don't know the answer 423 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: to that, but I know I do know based on 424 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: what doctor Gray Stafford's telling us about tax returns. But 425 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: there was a million dollars surplus, so I'm not sure 426 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: about that. Maybe his employees didn't like her and there 427 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: was animosity. I don't know the answer to that, but 428 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: it is circumstantial, so to you, Special guest shaff Chad Chronister, 429 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: the elected share of Hillsboro County, Florida. Where does the 430 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: investigation into his death or excuse me, disappearance stand now? 431 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: And why has it heated up? Well? Luckily did the 432 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: I should say fortunate because of the popularity of this 433 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: Netflix phenomenon, this documentary Tiger King. We're starting a gonna 434 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: get a ton of leads on average, about six a 435 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: day for the last five days. Nothing so far that 436 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: has been viable. Most of it is been phone calls 437 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: or emails with people's theories. They've watched the show and 438 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: now they have a theory they want to they can 439 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: tell us how he was killed and who did it. 440 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: But again, nothing credible. But I'm optimistic. I'm hoping this 441 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: will be during this series. This will again rehash some 442 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: relationship that's been soured as an employee, something, some piece 443 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: of evidence, interview, anything that will help us finally solve 444 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: this disappearance. You know, Sheriff Chad Chronister, I was about 445 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: to come down on you, bring down the hammer when 446 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: you said they knew. Netflix documentary has made the case 447 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: wildly popular. We are not a lynch mob. We don't 448 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: meet out justice based on popularity or unpopularity. But when 449 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: you say you're getting leads like six a day, that's 450 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: a whole other cannon worms way in on that newer 451 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: defense attorney Jason Oceans, I mean this is not voting somebody, 452 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: Miss Sweet Potato, nobody's gonna go home, Miss Congeniality, or 453 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: mister Universe. That it's not about a popular vote. It's 454 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: about evidence being direct or circumstantial. Jason, There's there's no 455 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: doubt about it, Nancy. I mean, it's often you you 456 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: would say for certain that you know, sometimes circumstantial evidence 457 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: can just be overwhelming. You know, where's the body, where's 458 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,239 Speaker 1: the gun. But you can make those cases, you know, 459 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: just from the prosecutorial side. So yeah, circumstances associated with 460 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: all of this and the characters. I mean, it's clearly 461 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: a Netflix show for sure, but it's it's real life. 462 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: I don't care about it being a show or all 463 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: for my entertainment. I care about what happened to this guy. 464 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: Did he disappear, which I find hard to believe since 465 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: he was rich and used to privilege, And if he 466 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: didn't disappear, that means he's dead. And I find it 467 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: very hard to believe that he could go under the 468 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: radar for this long director coal case research to call 469 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: him really hard for me to believe. He vanishes without 470 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: a trace, and he's never popped up in all that time. 471 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: He's never had contact with his children, never had contact 472 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: with his friends, as relative's nothing. Nancy has an adding 473 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: contact with the mistress as it cuts his money. So 474 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: how would he beliving wherever he supposedly with? The key 475 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: thing to me here is we don't know when he 476 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: went Missry. We just know when she recorded him. So 477 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: the sheriff again, he's got to back this thing up 478 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: at least six months from the date she made that. 479 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: Halt crime stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about 480 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: the now conviction of the so called tiger King muldonno passage, Shriville, 481 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: a lot of different names. But remember not just the 482 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: hit on Carol Baskin that he forked over thousands to 483 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: get a rival murdered. He hated her in a long 484 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: time grudge match, but also for killing tigers, for killing 485 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: his tigers allegedly to make room for more profitable animals. 486 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: Nine counts of that as well. But you know, you'd 487 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: think that his conviction would be the end of the story. 488 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: But it's not. The Fat Lady. The Fat Lady hasn't 489 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: sung yet. Take a listen to our friends at Netflix. 490 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: What a story. It's so wild it must not be true. 491 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: That's the first thing people think, Oh, come on, that 492 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: can't be true. It's twenty years ago, cold case. Twenty 493 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: year old murders don't get solved. Well, it all starts, 494 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, kill Baskin, Krol Baskin, who was Carol Lewis 495 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: at the time and was married to donal Lewis. Oh good, 496 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: But I did see Don Lewis about maybe a month 497 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: or so before he disappeared, and he didn't mention to 498 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: me that he thought his life was in danger. There 499 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: is so many strange twists in that story you would 500 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: have to write books, volumes of the stuff that went wrong. There, 501 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: the lives that are there, all the circumstantial evidence somebody 502 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: did something too done. There's a lot of stories about 503 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: Carol having some finger in it, but nobody can prove it. 504 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: In the last hours, the investigation into the disappearance of 505 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: Carol Baskin's husband has been reopened. Why and let me 506 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: stay at the get go. She has not been named 507 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: a suspect or a person of interest and her husband's disappearance. 508 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: First of all, you just heard about quote circumstantial evidence. 509 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: Take a less one more time to our friends at Netflix. 510 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: Jack Don Lewis was last seen on August the eighteenth. 511 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: He was reported missing on the nineteenth by his wife 512 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: at about one thirty in the afternoon. The detectives walked 513 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: the property and drove the property. Now you talking about 514 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: forty acres. Apparently there was nothing there that suggested that 515 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: they should pursue that area any further. There were aerial 516 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: searches done, they found nothing. Then after three or four 517 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: days we found his van abandoned at an airport with 518 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: the keys Dell in it, his briefcase in it. But no, 519 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: Don Lewis sheriff. We don't know the last time he 520 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: was seen before he went missing. That's exact the right. 521 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: Only according to her account that she had seen him 522 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: early one morning telling him to get the truck ready. 523 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: They were going to take a bunch of supplies down 524 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: to Miami and then head to Costa Rica. But that's 525 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: only her account, as he got his truck and said 526 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to run an errand and she has never 527 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: seen him since. Now wait a minute, Nobody they'll worked 528 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: for him, None of his children, none of his friends, 529 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: nobody saw or heard from him six months before he disappears, sheriff. 530 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: Six months. No, I'm not saying six months before. I'm saying, 531 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: well in Costa Rica, six months before, but not but 532 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: not here locally in Tampa. So it was the last 533 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: time that we know of, conservatively speaking, Sheriff Chronister that 534 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: he was saying by anybody other than the fairy godmother 535 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: of cats, Carol Baskin. Who else saw him leading up 536 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: to his disappearance, Employees, employees around there who claimed they 537 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: had seen him a couple of days prior, a couple 538 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: of days who said he saw a day before. But 539 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: that's that's that's as far as we can track effect. 540 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: Let me go to you, doctor Gray Stafford, former director 541 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: Conservation Wildlife World Zoo, author of Zumility, and founder of 542 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: the Zoologic podcast. Was the husband part of the animal sanctuary? 543 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: Was he just the money man? Was he the bookkeeper? 544 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: Was he a zookeeper? What was he? He founded it? 545 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: He was the original. It was under a different name 546 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: and it escaped me at the moment. But he founded 547 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: that banks where originally and then Carol joined him when 548 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: they became a couple. How do you know all this, Gray, Well, 549 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: like so many millions, I've watched the show, but I've 550 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: also done some additional reading of past news articles, about 551 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: the missing person. But you knew Exotic and you knew 552 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: Carol Baskin and the husband Don along before this ever 553 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: became a Netflix documentary. You once told me that the 554 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: zoo community, as you call it, it's actually very small 555 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: and closely knit. Is that true the modern accredited zoo 556 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: community is. Yeah, absolutely, it's a You know, what I 557 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: would say is that he people in this story do 558 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: not represent most zoo professionals. There are no heroes in 559 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: this story, as your previous guests have said, so we 560 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: certainly do know what sanctuaries are doing some of their issues. 561 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: As I said, Carol has been very anti zoo in 562 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: her public statements, and so obviously it sounds to me 563 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: like you got a little dog in that fight. You 564 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: got some skin in the game. You are with the 565 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: zoo community, and she doesn't like the zoo community. So 566 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: I do I have to take everything you say with 567 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: a box assault. Well, I hope you know me better 568 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: than well, Okay, you're right, I do. I do. Guys, 569 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: I've known doctor Gray Stafford since the Jodi Arias trial. 570 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: How long ago was that? And we've been in very 571 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: close contact. I've read your work, I followed your career. 572 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: I've read your book and I've seen your podcast. I 573 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: believe what you're telling me. I believe that that there 574 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: is that that dichotomy between the zoo community and the 575 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: let me just say, Sanctuary Area community. Very different from 576 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: Joe Exotic though it is more like a show in 577 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: your words, So did you know Don Carol Baskin's husband 578 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 1: that disappeared? Did you know of him? Had you ever 579 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: come in contact with him during his life? No? I 580 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 1: did not, and I fortunately have not met Joe Exotic either. 581 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm aware of these stories. It's hard not to be, 582 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: especially since my zoos have held tigers right. Yes, I 583 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: and I would not. I would not come on your 584 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: show and say that zoos are perfect, Nancy. We are 585 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: a work in progress. But clearly there's a difference between 586 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,439 Speaker 1: modern zoos that are accredited and hold themselves to higher 587 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: standards and the kinds of situations we're seeing in the show. 588 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: I agree with you, Doctor Gray Stafford. T take a 589 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: listen to Netflix Tiger King. What a story. It's so wild, 590 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: it must not be true. That's the first thing people think, Oh, 591 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 1: come on, that can't be true. It's twenty years ago, 592 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: old case, twenty year old murders don't get solved. Well, 593 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: it all starts, you know Kale Kale Baskin, who was 594 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: Kale Lewis at the time, was married to Don Lewis. Oh, 595 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: but I did see Don Lewis about maybe a month 596 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: or so before he disappeared, and he didn't mention to 597 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 1: me that he felt his life was in danger. There 598 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: are so many strange twists in that story you would 599 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: have to write books and volumes and the stuff that 600 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: went wrong there, the lives that are there, all the 601 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence somebody did something too. Don. I want you 602 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 1: to take a list, So let's play cut twenty one 603 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Jackie from Tiger King. But then what about all of 604 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 1: Don's assets, not the insurance policy votes. I have nothing 605 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: to do with that, all his real estate, all of 606 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: his holdings, all one under his will, didn't the will 607 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't have come into play because if you disappear, you 608 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: can't do anything for five years. And so Carol had 609 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: him declared, literally did five years and one day after 610 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: he disappeared. And here's the latest on the case. A 611 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: judge has just declared Lewis dead since he's been missing 612 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: five years. But Hillsborough County Sheriff's that you say, they 613 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: will keep the case open until they have proofs. A 614 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: lot of things happened during those five years. A lot 615 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: of things were moved around. She took out a lot 616 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: of good things for herself and putting bad things in 617 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: their accounts. We ended up with all the yucky stuff. 618 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: She was taken property out of Don's name and our 619 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 1: names and putting it in her name. Do you have 620 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: a tip The Hillsborough Sheriff wants to know what happened 621 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: to the former husband of Big Cat Rescue c e Oh. 622 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: We are talking about the disappearance of Carol Baskin's husband. 623 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: If you have information, the number for the Hillsborough County 624 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 1: Sheriff eight one three two four seven eighty two hundred 625 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: repeat eight one three two four seven eighty two hundred. Again. 626 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: No one has been named a suspect, no one has 627 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: been named a person of interest. But I guarantee you this, 628 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: the man is dead. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, 629 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: goodbye friend.