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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein and his lover

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Speaker 1: Jelayne Maxwell. Epstein now dad. Jelayne Maxwell behind bars awaiting

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Speaker 1: trial on claims that she basically was a high class pimp,

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Speaker 1: reeling in underage girls for Epstein to rape, molest, and

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Speaker 1: traffic across state lines, even across country borders to satisfy

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Speaker 1: his perversions. But now breaking news in the case of

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Speaker 1: not only Epstein's past, but Jelayne Maxwell herself Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Processors alleged Delaine Maxwell used a cart

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Speaker 1: filled with legal documents to barricade herself inside a Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: conference room, causing a security threat. Maxwell has been allowed

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Speaker 1: to meet with her lawyers in a virtual teleconference room

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Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Detention Center ahead of her trial. In

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Speaker 1: one meeting, Maxwell allegedly used a cart to hold legal

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Speaker 1: documents to quote barricade the door to the VTC room,

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Speaker 1: preventing staff from being able to access the room. The

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Speaker 1: letter say stuff. Because of the security threat posed, the

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Speaker 1: defendant is no longer permitted to bring the cart into

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Speaker 1: the room and can only quote take in what she

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Speaker 1: can carry. Maxwell's lawyer denied her client used the cart

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Speaker 1: to block access to the room. I'm very surprised she

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Speaker 1: can even have access to the room given what we

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Speaker 1: now know. Joining me an All Star panel to break

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Speaker 1: it down and put it back together again. What if

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Speaker 1: any impact does Julyne Maxwell, barricading herself in a conference

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Speaker 1: room in the jail have on a potential trial regarding

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew? Can he be forced to come to our country?

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Speaker 1: What are his legal rights in Britain? This all swirling

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Speaker 1: around claims he had underage sex as statutory rape of

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Speaker 1: a young woman now grown, Joining me an All Star Panel.

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Speaker 1: First of all, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red

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Speaker 1: Flags and the host of Today with Doctor Wendy on KCBQ,

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Speaker 1: San Diego. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists, Joining me out

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Speaker 1: of Atlanta. You can find her at Angela Arnold, MD,

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Speaker 1: dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood

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Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand

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Speaker 1: new hit series, The Piked and Massacre on iHeartRadio. Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, but first to Crime Online dot Com investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Alexis Terres. Alexis, thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: Jolaine Maxwell, with all that money, all that education and

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Speaker 1: reading and sophistication, bearricase herself in a room in the jail. Yep,

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Speaker 1: the police say, well, the prison guards say, so, she

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Speaker 1: spends hours and hours every single day. She has given

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Speaker 1: unlimited time hours to spend on a video conference with

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Speaker 1: her attorneys. So she goes to a conference room in

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Speaker 1: the prison and she takes a cart and filled with

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Speaker 1: all of her legal papers that she keeps, and she

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Speaker 1: spends the day and they're talking with him. But what

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Speaker 1: the prison guard says is she put the cart in

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Speaker 1: front of the door and barricaded herself in and she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't come out and they could not get in. And

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Speaker 1: this is something that prisoners are absolutely not allowed to do.

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Speaker 1: But because of attorney client privilege, they can't have someone

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Speaker 1: else in the room with her. But they are saying

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Speaker 1: they're not going to They don't want her to do

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Speaker 1: this anymore because this is such a huge violation such

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Speaker 1: as security threats, such as safety threat. So you're telling me,

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Speaker 1: alexis terrest check that every day Delaine Maxwell is closed

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Speaker 1: it away in a private room on video conferencing with

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Speaker 1: her lawyers. According to her, Yes, and not just fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes or thirty minute called hours. She spends hours and

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Speaker 1: hours every day, and they describe it as discussing her

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Speaker 1: legal strategy every day. You know what that suddenly reminded

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Speaker 1: me of. Do you remember Alexis terres Shut when talking

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Speaker 1: mom Casey Anthony was on house arrest and she would

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Speaker 1: get she could go to church or to her lawyers.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was. She would spend days and days

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Speaker 1: and days at the law firms of Jose Bias his

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Speaker 1: law firm off closeted away, locked in a room with

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Speaker 1: Jose Bias. Do you remember that, day after day after day. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's almost it's a really a way of avoiding the

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Speaker 1: rules that the probation office or the prison have set up.

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Speaker 1: So Ulne is just in there, like you know, Casey

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Speaker 1: because as you said, Casey whould go to church. I

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Speaker 1: might be mistaken in my memory that I don't remember

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Speaker 1: her ever setting foot in a church. But Delayne is

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Speaker 1: sitting in this conference room for hours on end on

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Speaker 1: zoom every single day with her journey. I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to think about it. To you, doctor Angela Arnold, I

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Speaker 1: think we need to shrink on this. Why does she

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Speaker 1: barricade herself in one of those conference rooms, I think

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Speaker 1: that things are getting too close for her, too close

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Speaker 1: for comfort, and she doesn't and I think she's getting

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Speaker 1: worried about what's going to happen, and she didn't want

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Speaker 1: anybody to come in there, and maybe she just didn't

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Speaker 1: want them to find out that she's soaked up to

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Speaker 1: HGTV for all I know. I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what she's doing in there, but I find it really

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Speaker 1: hard to believe that high priced attorneys charging seven eight

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars an hour are going to be in a

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Speaker 1: conference call with Jolene Maxwell for eight hours a day.

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Speaker 1: I just don't believe that. So, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what's going on in that room, but we need

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Speaker 1: Patrick California Prosecutor. The reality is there are very stringent

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Speaker 1: rules behind bars, all for good reason. Yeah that's right, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You know, safety is paramount behind bars, and yes, cience

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Speaker 1: like Elaine Maxwell do have access to law libraries and

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Speaker 1: lawyers in that kind of preparation time, but within the

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Speaker 1: boundaries of keeping everybody else safe, so'll barricading yourself anywhere

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Speaker 1: in custody is going to be grounds for discipline. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be the kind of whether it's a cry

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Speaker 1: for hell that things are getting too quotes for comfort,

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Speaker 1: however you describe it, it'll be dealt with and the

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Speaker 1: loss of privileges behind bars. People don't recognize how severe

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Speaker 1: this can be because gaining earning privileges is something that

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Speaker 1: actually allows prisoners like miss Maxwell to prepare for court.

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Speaker 1: Not only are there a porosy Gllaine Maxwell barricaded herself

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Speaker 1: in the conference room so gailhouse Cards couldn't get in

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Speaker 1: during one of her marathon conference calls. Video conference calls

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Speaker 1: with your lawyers. But a photo of Shelaine Maxwell with

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Speaker 1: a black eye I'm in a solid black eye have emerged.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online. In

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Speaker 1: a letter written by Maxwell's lawyer to the district court judge,

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Speaker 1: attorney Bobby Sternheim released a photo of Jelayne Maxwell with

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Speaker 1: a black eye. Maxwell reportedly said she didn't know where

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Speaker 1: the bruce came from, but it could be due to

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Speaker 1: her using a stock or towel to shills her eyes.

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Speaker 1: According to Maxwell's lawyer, prison guards shina light into Maxwell's

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Speaker 1: sell every fifteen minutes to make sure she's still breathing

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Speaker 1: and has not tried to kill herself. The letter also

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Speaker 1: says that guards at the Brooklyn Jail threatened to move

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Speaker 1: Maxwell to separate housing if she cannot provide an explanation

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Speaker 1: for the bruise. In the letter, Miss Sternheim writes that

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Speaker 1: while Maxwell is unaware of the cause of the bruise,

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Speaker 1: she has quote grown increasingly reluctant to report information to

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Speaker 1: the guards for fear of retaliation, discipline, and punitive chores.

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Speaker 1: Judge Alison Nathan said prosecutors have a week to explain

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Speaker 1: if and why jail officials have been subjecting Maxwell to

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Speaker 1: quote flashlight surveillance, and if Maxwell can be provided with

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Speaker 1: appropriate eye covering. Okay, let me understand something. Alexis terschut

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Speaker 1: appropriate eye covering? What Disslaine Max all on a sleep

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Speaker 1: mask behind bars? Is that what's happening? I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: so she so the fear I think that this is

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Speaker 1: coming from what this is all based around Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: She is in jail for being his madam, which you

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Speaker 1: spoke about. But the thing is he committed suicide in jail,

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Speaker 1: and so nobody got justice his victims, these child victims

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Speaker 1: of his child assaults, didn't get justice. None of justice

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Speaker 1: was not served in that case, so they are making

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Speaker 1: extra sure that Jelaie Maxwell does not do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: So she has been under the suicide watch, so the

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Speaker 1: guards check on her every sixty minutes because the cards

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Speaker 1: were not checking on Jeffrey Epstein and he was able

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Speaker 1: to kill himself behind bars, so they want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that she doesn't take the same way out, which

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Speaker 1: doesn't explain to me her excuses. Also, she said she

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Speaker 1: didn't even know she had the black eye. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a mirror. Apparently there are no mirrors in this prison,

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Speaker 1: and I believe that this jail is really no is

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Speaker 1: one of the really bad ones. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: there are some places like where Martha Stewart spend her

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Speaker 1: time that are minimum security and very nice. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: this is a very maximum security, very bare bones prison.

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Speaker 1: She wouldn't have a mirror, so she says she saw

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Speaker 1: her reflection in a nail clipper and she looked up,

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Speaker 1: so she had no idea she even had a black eye.

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Speaker 1: It didn't hurt, she didn't ask for medical help or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. And then to say that a sock

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Speaker 1: hit a black eye but socks are so soft. So

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Speaker 1: the judge just wants to get to the bottom of this,

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Speaker 1: but they are They do not want her to have

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Speaker 1: any chance to commit suicide crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: You know Joe's got Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.

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Speaker 1: I find it very interesting that Killaine Maxwell says she

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Speaker 1: may have gotten a black eye from a towel or

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Speaker 1: a sock as she places over her eyes at night,

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Speaker 1: and then somehow blames the guards for flashing a flashlight

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Speaker 1: on her every fifteen minutes. Well, I don't think you

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Speaker 1: can get a black eye from a flashlight, a soccer,

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Speaker 1: a towel, So what gives Jo Scott? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm wondering if she didn't have an

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Speaker 1: altercation with someone in the prison. You know what, Jes Scott,

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Speaker 1: I like you a lot, but I don't think I

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Speaker 1: would repeat that again to your bosses over at Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University. I think she had an altercation. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's got a black eye, Joe Scott. Either somebody hit

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Speaker 1: her in the eye or it's self inflicted. Have you

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Speaker 1: thought about that, Well, now that you mentioned it, it

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Speaker 1: could be self inflicted, she could have run into the wall, perhaps,

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Speaker 1: but also people with her kind of background, her alleged behavior,

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Speaker 1: relative to how she's treated these young girls and pimped

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Speaker 1: them out, she would not be very popular in the

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Speaker 1: prison population. Let's keep in mind some of these people

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Speaker 1: she's surrounded with might very well have been victims a

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Speaker 1: very similar throughout their life. So it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be like she's going to be queen of the prison

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Speaker 1: and at the top of the heat. One other thing

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Speaker 1: that's very interesting though. I don't know if you remember this, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: but you know Jeffrey Epstein did the same thing while

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Speaker 1: he was being held. Remember he would take almost up

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Speaker 1: to twelve hours per day in this holding room with

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Speaker 1: these attorneys, say would even he'd even go out, and

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Speaker 1: they would allow him to buy out the soda machines.

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Speaker 1: There was even word that he was putting extra money

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Speaker 1: into the accounts of some of the prisoners in his

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Speaker 1: vicinity to keep him safe around there. So it seems

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Speaker 1: as though this group of people are afforded certain luxuries

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Speaker 1: that others are not. Guys, we're talking about Galene Maxiwell

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Speaker 1: behind bars, a barricading herself in a conference room as

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Speaker 1: she's on video chats with her lawyers for hours on

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Speaker 1: and I claim she's watching HGTV. Not only that, she

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Speaker 1: shows up with a black eye and refuses to tell

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Speaker 1: anybody where she got it. She points to a sock

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Speaker 1: a towel as being the purpse. Do I buy that? No?

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Speaker 1: I do not, So what's the point. The point is

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Speaker 1: that right now her longtime friend, Prince Andrew, that's right,

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Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth's son is, let's just say, formally being requested

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Speaker 1: to come to the US to answer up on charges

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Speaker 1: he committed statutory rape on an American citizen. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut fifty three. She believes that I

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Speaker 1: do that. No one, no president, no Prime Minister, no

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Speaker 1: Prince of England. It's above the law. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: how many contacts you have, doesn't matter who your family is,

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter how much wealth do you have. You're not

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Speaker 1: a buffal law and no one, no matter how young,

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Speaker 1: are vulnerable or powerless, is deprived to the protection of

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Speaker 1: the law. That is a bed rock principle of American law,

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Speaker 1: and I believe it's a bender rock principle of the

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Speaker 1: United Kingdom from which we got on our law that's

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Speaker 1: the renowned lawyer David Boys speaking to our friends at ITV.

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Speaker 1: The reality is Prince Andrew has been named in a

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Speaker 1: civil suit by the young then young girl photoed with him.

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Speaker 1: Andrew has his arm around her. She's wearing a MITCHR.

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Speaker 1: Shirt and they are in Gilain Maxwell's London town home.

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Speaker 1: Now Gillane Maxwell and Prince Andrew both site note that

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Speaker 1: can possibly be my town home. But La, let me

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Speaker 1: remind everybody that Maxwell's brother Ian Maxwell was doing an

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Speaker 1: interview with the BBC last March and was thrown the

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Speaker 1: question have you seen the photo? He says yes, and

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Speaker 1: he admits on BBC that that is his sister Galaine

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Speaker 1: Maxwell's town home in the background. That was the focus

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Speaker 1: of the interview. But he inadvertently revealed that yes, that's

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Speaker 1: Galaine Maxwell's town home where you see Andrew and Virginia

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Speaker 1: Jefferies then a minor So my question to you, Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: California Prosecutor, could Prince Andrew be forced to come to

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Speaker 1: America to answer on these claims a statutory rate. It's

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Speaker 1: not a criminal case, it's a civil case. In a

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Speaker 1: civil case, we don't have the kind of extradition power

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Speaker 1: that we have in a criminal case. So because this

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Speaker 1: is a civil case, we aren't able to involuntarily bring

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew to America. Now he's able to come voluntarily.

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Speaker 1: And remember, back when this first broke, he had indicated

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Speaker 1: a willingness not only to cooperate with the FBI, but

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Speaker 1: to help them build whatever case they needed by providing information.

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Speaker 1: That cooperation has now fallen by the wayside. And is

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Speaker 1: there a way to force him here against his will?

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Speaker 1: The answer is no, not unless there is some type

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Speaker 1: of criminal case that's built against him in the US. Now,

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Speaker 1: the only thing we can do is put pressure on

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Speaker 1: the authorities back where in his own jurisdiction, and if

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Speaker 1: they were to come up with their own criminal investigation,

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Speaker 1: they could pursue it there, But right now we can't

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Speaker 1: pursue that here. I don't know about that because the

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Speaker 1: stature limitations may have run and I don't know that

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Speaker 1: they would have jurisdiction for a criminal case involving Virginia Jeffries.

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Speaker 1: Virginia Jeffries is not there. But remember it determines on

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Speaker 1: what they choose to pursue. So as here there's different

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Speaker 1: crimes with different statutes of limitations, both criminally and civilly,

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Speaker 1: that have to be very strategic. But remember that there

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Speaker 1: have been murmurings over there that they are reopening some

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Speaker 1: kind of investigation, and you have to believe at the

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Speaker 1: very least whatever they hope they find, they will either

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Speaker 1: use there or share with us here so that we

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Speaker 1: may be able to pursue a criminal case where we

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Speaker 1: might not have blown the statute. Wendy Patrick, I believe

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Speaker 1: that you're right. I do not believe Prince Andrew can

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Speaker 1: be forced to come to the US on a civil case.

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Speaker 1: We do have an extradition treaty with Great Britain on

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Speaker 1: criminal matters. If he were charged within the statute of limitations,

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Speaker 1: for instance, with statutory rape, he could be extradited brought

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Speaker 1: here by force for criminal trial. Again, this is a

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Speaker 1: civil case. Now, royal titles do not protect him from

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Speaker 1: prosecution in criminal cases. Here's another kicker. He is a prince,

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Speaker 1: a full blood, which means he could claim sovereign immunity,

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Speaker 1: but unlike his mother, he does not have diplomatic immunity.

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Speaker 1: Long story short, it's not going to happen. He's not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to We cannot extradite him here

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Speaker 1: because it's not a criminal case. And I can guarantee

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Speaker 1: you when you don't know a horse, look at his

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Speaker 1: track record. Andrew is not coming here voluntarily. That's not

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Speaker 1: going to happen in the meantime, Guys, take a listen.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing the lawyer for the victim, Virginia jeffreyies.

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Speaker 1: That was David. Boys, take a listen to him one

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Speaker 1: more time. What happened for the first time in London?

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Speaker 1: I was so young. Heilan will cook me up in

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Speaker 1: the morning and said, you're going to meet a prince today.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know at that point that I was going

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Speaker 1: to be trafficked to that prince. And then that night

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew came to her house in London and went

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Speaker 1: out the club Tramp. Prince Andrew got me alcoholos in

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Speaker 1: the VIP section. It was I'm pretty sure it was vodka.

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrews like, let's dance together, and I was like okay,

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Speaker 1: and we leave Club Tramp and I'd topped in the

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Speaker 1: car with Helene and Jeffrey and Helen said he's coming

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Speaker 1: back to the house and I want you to do

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Speaker 1: for him. Let you do for Epstein. You were just

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Speaker 1: hearing the alleged victim in this case, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: speaking to our friends at NBC. So following up on

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Speaker 1: what Windy Patrick just said, if this occurred in Britain,

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Speaker 1: they would have criminal jurisdiction. But again, what's happening right

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Speaker 1: now with Prince Andrew and Delayne Maxwell and Virginia Jeffries

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Speaker 1: regarding Andrew is civil. Jelayne Maxwell behind bars for her

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Speaker 1: part in Epstein raping little girls, allegedly procuring them and

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Speaker 1: even taking part in the molestation and the attacks. So far,

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Speaker 1: what do we know about Andrew's defense against Virginia Jeffrey's claims?

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut thirty five. Virginia says the abuse moved from the

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Speaker 1: bathroom to a bedroom. He wasn't rude or anything about it.

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Speaker 1: He said, you know, thank you and some kind of

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Speaker 1: soft sentiments like that and left. I just couldn't plain

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Speaker 1: about it. I couldn't believe that even a royal of

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Speaker 1: humor involved, She says. Trans Andrew abused her two more times,

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Speaker 1: once in New York and scenes mansion and again in

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Speaker 1: his virgin Islands estates. Andrew of course denies that this

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Speaker 1: ever happened. He denies that had ever happened, and he's

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Speaker 1: going to keep denying that it ever happened. But he

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Speaker 1: knows the truth, and I know the truth. To Joseph Scott, Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, forensic expert joining us,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I don't think you know, remember Monica Lewinsky

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Speaker 1: and Bill Clinton. I use that example for one reason.

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Speaker 1: The DNA from Clinton remained on her blue dress for

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Speaker 1: years before the blue dress was ever discussed openly. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we're going to have any evidence like that

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Speaker 1: in the case against Andrew. No, we're not unless she's

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Speaker 1: got something sequestered away. You know that she's held back

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Speaker 1: for evidentiary purposes, you know, And that dynamic with Clinton

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Speaker 1: is completely different than this. This is a young girl

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Speaker 1: that was being trafficked, that was being put into a position.

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Speaker 1: I'm not drawing a parallel in the facts. I'm drawing

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Speaker 1: a parallel and potential forensic evidence such as DNA coming

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Speaker 1: from Seaman. We had that in the Clinton case. We

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Speaker 1: don't have it in this case, not that I know.

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Speaker 1: I think this is going to be her word against

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Speaker 1: his word, and we have that photo. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, I'm very surprised, Wendy Patrick, that there was

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Speaker 1: never criminal investigation in Great Britain since this attack occurred.

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Speaker 1: They're starting at Gilaine Maxwell's townhouse. You know. The one

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Speaker 1: question about that, Nancy, because you're right, that's the question

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Speaker 1: everybody's asking now. Is people wonder whether or not there's

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Speaker 1: this protection that maybe was afforded back there, and the

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Speaker 1: authorities would say no, you know, we know about palace intrigue,

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Speaker 1: but they would say there's no palace immunity that should

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Speaker 1: have precluded a member of the royal family from being investigated.

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Speaker 1: So if that's not the explanation, then could it have

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Speaker 1: been that photos like this don't typically surface in these

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Speaker 1: kinds of investigations until years later. And if that's true,

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Speaker 1: then of course they'd have to discount the end it's

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Speaker 1: in explanations. But if that working backwards that we're doing now,

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Speaker 1: they complicates finding a good answer to that question, because

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Speaker 1: that's the obvious question. Why now? Why not way back

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Speaker 1: when when this actually happened. Take to listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends over at Netflix. I first met Prince Andrew March ten,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, in London at Jillen's townhouse. Knocked door.

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Speaker 1: He came inside Jillen's townhouse and we're sitting there having tea.

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Speaker 1: Ellen has his favorite guessing game that she does. She

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Speaker 1: goes to Prince Andrew, how old do you think Virginia is?

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Speaker 1: And he said seventeen and she's like, oh, you're right,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they made a little joke about it.

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Speaker 1: It's like, all my daughters aren't far from your age.

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Speaker 1: You know, my daughter's a little bit younger than you.

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Speaker 1: We went off to night club Tramp in London and

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Speaker 1: he dances and he's profusely sweating over me. It was disgusting.

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Speaker 1: Check listen to Moore from Virginia Roberts Jeffries and ended

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Speaker 1: with sexual abuse and intercourse. And then I've had on

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Speaker 1: the back You've done a really good job, like you know,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much, and here's two hundred dollars. You know,

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Speaker 1: before you know it, I'm being lent out to politicians

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Speaker 1: and too academics and people that royalty and people that

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Speaker 1: you just you would never think, like, how did you

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Speaker 1: get into that position of power in the first place.

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Speaker 1: If you're this disgusting, evil, decrepit person on the inside too.

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Speaker 1: Alexa stres Chuck joining US Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: Alexis so far prince and has race multiple defenses against Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey's climbs of statutory rate Layne Maxwell's a key to

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Speaker 1: unlocking the case. And I can't help but believe that

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Speaker 1: if she would rat out on Andrew, that her case

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Speaker 1: would miraculously go away. What defenses has Andrew been throwing up?

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Speaker 1: He didn't say anything for years and years and years.

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Speaker 1: Then he gave an on camera interview and he which

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Speaker 1: really was the worst decision he ever made, because he

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Speaker 1: was so unbelievable in history. He said he has never

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Speaker 1: met Virginia except there's a picture. And then he looked

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Speaker 1: at the picture. He said, you know, I've never This

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Speaker 1: is obviously upstairs. You can see there's a banister. It's

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Speaker 1: upstairs in Julene's house. I never went upstairs, which is

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Speaker 1: strange that he can recognize the upstairs but he never

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Speaker 1: went upstairs. There's clearly a picture of him. Then he says,

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Speaker 1: the picture is doctor. That doesn't look like my hand.

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Speaker 1: This he said, I wasn't at a club that night.

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Speaker 1: I was at a pizza poler with one of my

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Speaker 1: daughters for her friend's birthday party. And everyone says, you

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Speaker 1: remember you were at a pizza poler in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one. He says, well, I looked at my schedule

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Speaker 1: and I was, I think it's the Essex Pizza Poler,

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Speaker 1: and the pizza place said, we have no recollection of that.

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Speaker 1: And then he said, when I thought when I was

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Speaker 1: in the military and I was, I believe he was

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Speaker 1: in the golf war, He says, I I had. It

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Speaker 1: was so traumatic that I know I have a condition

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Speaker 1: where I no longer sweat. And the Virginia saying they

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Speaker 1: went dancing and the night he was sweating all over her.

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Speaker 1: It was a disgusting He says, I don't sweat. Well,

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Speaker 1: then they're a slew of pictures they're published from over

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Speaker 1: the years, because he's been famous for seventy years, and

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Speaker 1: you can see all these different pictures of him sweating.

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Speaker 1: So every single thing that he said was just seemed

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Speaker 1: like a lie. They all seemed like excuse uses that

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Speaker 1: he made up on the fly. Oh, I don't sweat.

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Speaker 1: I went to a pizza parlor. I've never been upstairs

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Speaker 1: because look at the picture of this is upstairs. All

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Speaker 1: of it really seemed really just to say that he

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Speaker 1: was guilty. He left out one that I really love, Alexis.

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Speaker 1: Although everything you said was accurate, he also said the

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Speaker 1: clothes he was wearing were not his quote traveling clothes.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right. Yes, he says, I would never wear,

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Speaker 1: you know, a blue shirt. That's not what I wear

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Speaker 1: when I travel. And I guess the prince has only

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Speaker 1: traveling clothes, in regular clothes. So you're telling me, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: that there are photos of him where he is sweating. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are lots of photos of him sweating, Lots and

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Speaker 1: lots of photos of him sweating, and there are lots

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Speaker 1: of pictures of him in a blue shirt when he's

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Speaker 1: you know, traveling or not traveling. Like everything he said

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Speaker 1: has been refuted by picture evidence, but not pictures that

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Speaker 1: Virginia has pictures that are in the public domain. There

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Speaker 1: be to professional pictures pictures of him in public places.

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Speaker 1: You know that that condition he claims that he has

427
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: is a hydrosis, as when you your sweat glance are

428
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: affected by a sudden shock that he claims he got

429
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: and the Fall clans. Have you ever heard of that doctor?

430
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: And angie and hydrosis? Oh? Sure I have. It's a condition,

431
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: So it's a thing. It's a real thing. But I

432
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: don't know if if he necessarily has that. But you

433
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: know the problem with him claiming that, him claiming that

434
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: as a defense is, you know, less is more when

435
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: it comes to what do you say to the press

436
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: if you're a suspect. By focusing on some of these

437
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: little details, what it really comes down to is he

438
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: looks incredible as to all of the details. You know,

439
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you budge the truth about something small,

440
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: it impacts about the big step. I don't know if

441
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: anybody else caught this, but as a prosecutor, when I

442
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: looked at his first interview, he hesitated at the beginning

443
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: when he was asked about the picture, he said he

444
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: didn't remember. Remember. That's key either, No way that I

445
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: ever do that. I would never do that. But I

446
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: don't remember or I don't recall. Is very, very different,

447
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people aren't seizing on that.

448
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm making too big of a deal of it,

449
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: but I think that some people that would be innocent

450
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't say I don't remember, but they already know

451
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: they would never do something like that. Crime Stories with

452
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, the argument just got Morgan that the photo

453
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: was faked. I think you would have been better off saying,

454
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: you know what, I was at a party at Gallaine Maxwell's.

455
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: I don't remember meeting her as possible, we were both there,

456
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: but I certainly didn't commit statutory rape because it just

457
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: makes him look worse. How do you tell if a

458
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: photo has been doctored forensically? Oh yeah, I mean one

459
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: of the things that you look for, the casting of shadows,

460
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: the positioning of the individual in the photo, is it

461
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: doesn't line up with with the focal length and also

462
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: the lighting that's going on in the environment. But to

463
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: your bigger point, Nancy, he would have been better off

464
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: keeping his mouth shut because now because you say that

465
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: this is doctored, now you bring the full force and

466
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: weight of the entire not just courts, not just investigators,

467
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: but anybody that's out there that has any understanding of

468
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: photography and being able to photoshop. And now people are

469
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: going to analyze this seeing just at nauseum, and you know,

470
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: like doctor Wendy was saying, if he had just kept

471
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: this mouth shut about this one point. I mean, how

472
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: many people out there would actually believe that someone would

473
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: have gone to the trouble to doctor this photograph of

474
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: him with this seventeen year old young lady for the

475
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: purposes of blackmailing. It's absolutely absurd. I mean, you can

476
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: tell that it's him in the photograph. You know, because

477
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 1: of the timing of all of this, that more than

478
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: likely he was in that particular location. So when you're

479
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: trying to develop this this wild story, this alibi, if

480
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: you will, it's absolutely absurd because by doing this, by

481
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: focusing on this little detail like this, you brought the

482
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: full weight and scope of anybody that has any interest

483
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: in photography. And isn't it true? Wendy Patrick joining US

484
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: former prosecutor now host of Today with doctor Wendy KCBQ. Wendy,

485
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: there is a charge a jury instruction that judges always

486
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: read to jrrs. And that charge is, when you believe

487
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: a witness has lied in part, be it great or small,

488
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: you were entitled to throw out that witness's entire testimony

489
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: if you believe they're lying. My point is, why lie

490
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: about the photo being faked? Because once, as Joe Scott

491
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: planned out there, they're gonna bring on Tump's experts to

492
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: say this has not been fat. This is real. So

493
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: if you'll lie about that, or a lie about that's

494
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: not my hand around her waist, or I wasn't at

495
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: the party, or I was at pizza Express, and it

496
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: goes on. If you're got to lie about something small,

497
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: then of course you'd lie about something big. For instance,

498
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: I did not rape her to save your own skin. Yeah,

499
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And what's also important is the way

500
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: that instruction ends. If you don't believe them on little things,

501
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: you don't have to believe them on big things unless

502
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: other aspects of their testimony is in corroboration. The Prince

503
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: doesn't have a benefit of the doubt when it comes

504
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: to the last part of that instruction. We are stuck

505
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: with him looking guilty covering up a crime, when ironically

506
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: more evidence of the cover up we have than evidence

507
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: of the crime. He would have been better off, as

508
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: you have said, to basically say, look, you know, I

509
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: was a friend of the Lanes, I was at her house.

510
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: I don't know who else was there. I don't know

511
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: who I was in a photo with But I can

512
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: tell you one thing I would never that would have

513
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: been way in which most people have expected that to

514
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: go down. Let me ask you this, Wendy. What happens

515
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: if he doesn't show up for the civil case? Is

516
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: it like a softball game where you one side doesn't

517
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: show up. It's it's a skunk Have you ever heard

518
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: that time you're skunked? In other words, it didn't show up,

519
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: so you lose. Does he forfeit if he doesn't show

520
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: up and she wins the case? No, it's an empty chair.

521
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: It goes forward without him there, which may or may

522
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: not be to his advantage, because obviously there's a fairness.

523
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: A questioned, Wendy. Have you ever tried a case where

524
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: the defendant wasn't there? Yea, I tried, Yes, I have

525
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: me too. It was wonderful. He showed up the first

526
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: day for jury selection. He was on bond. He never

527
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: showed up again. I tried the rest. He was a

528
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: drug lord. The rest of the case basically standing right

529
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: behind his empty chair. I would just yell from there

530
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: where anyway, So if he doesn't show up, the case

531
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: will go or without him, Yes it will. And if

532
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: in fact that it's a conviction. If it's if you

533
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: sound liable, then you know he could be on the

534
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: line for damages for whatever they decide the monetary amount is.

535
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: And then of course there's the issue of what you

536
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: attach wereth the assets? But that initial point, let me

537
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: toss that one more thing. His lawyers can fight the

538
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: initial case even before it goes to trial, so they

539
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: can attack it collaterally. Is no jurisdiction. We're going to

540
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: toss this how it's spurious. You know all the reasons

541
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: that you can seek to have a civil case dismiss

542
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: Basically nanny nanny boo boo. Okay, that's not going to happen.

543
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: It's going to go forward with him or without him.

544
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: I hope he brings his traveling clothes. So alexis, what's

545
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: the hold up? What's happening? Miss? Because you've got the

546
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew issue. That's a civil case. He's not coming

547
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: to the US to answer up. I just go ahead

548
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: and tell you that. But there's a criminal case, Agains

549
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: Gilline Maxwell that is pinning it's set to go to trial.

550
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: When is that happening? It has been that there has

551
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: been a firm date that has finally been set. The

552
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: judge this it was supposed to start in July and

553
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: then it didn't tim them. The judge said, well, maybe

554
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: we'll start in November. Well, the judge has just issued

555
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: a letter to the court and in the case saying

556
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: this case Fergus Lane will start on November twenty ninth,

557
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. So in about three months, this case

558
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: is going to start and her trial is going to begin.

559
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: And enjoy Thanksgiving everybody, because we're heading to court. We

560
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: wait as just as unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing

561
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,